Re: [Gimp-user] gimpshop breaks Gimp 2.4 in Ubuntu Hardy Heron
FYI - I have written up some instructions on how to get the gimp to run again in Hardy Heron when gimpshop is also installed. If your are having problems getting the Gimp to run in other distros where gimpshop is installed, give these instructions a try. They should work but you might need to make slight modifications depending on the distro. You should be able to easily modify these instructions to get multiple versions of the gimp to run on the same PC. (e.g. the version of gimp that came with your distro and a more recent version of the gimp). See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=870475 or http://gimpshop.webuyusedcars.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1217038674 _ If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] gimpshop breaks Gimp 2.4 in Ubuntu Hardy Heron
Akkana writes: It's a fairly well known problem, at least among people who maintain both a locally built gimp and the one installed from their distro. The current 2.5 release notes have a reasonable description of what's happening (which also apply to gimpshop or any version of gimp you might want to build yourself while still keeping a system-installed version), and how to fix it: http://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.5.html (scroll down to Installation). Whoever builds that gimpshop packageshould probably be doing this, though maybe they just assume that no one would ever want both gimp and gimpshop on the same system (but in that case, it should be marked as a conflict in the package dependencies, as you say). Failing that, you could probably fix it by moving all the gimpshop stuff to some other place and using a script like the one in the 2.5 release notes. Thanks for the info. And yes I figured out it is a Library Paths problem. I ran the Ubuntu Hardy Heron LiveCD (which comes with Gimp 2.4.5). I ran in terminal the following: ldd `which gimp-2.4` and looked at where Gimp 2.4.5 was getting its libraries. It was getting ALL of them from /usr/lib and /lib. Then I installed gimpshop and ran ldconfig. Running ldconfig broke the Gimp but gimpshop still ran. I ran ldd `which gimp-2.4` and saw that the Gimp 2.4.5 was now getting some of its libraries from /usr/local/lib (where Gimpshop stored its libraries). This is really not surprising since /usr/local/lib is in the /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf file. It looks like ldconfig builds its library cache FIRST from all of the libraries listed in the /etc/ld.so.conf/*.conf files and then from /lib and /usr/lib. It is probably NOT adviable to remove /usr/local/lib from the /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf file since that might break other applications. But you can force Ubuntu to load the /lib and /usr/lib libraries FIRST (ie BEFORE the libraries in /usr/local/lib are loaded) when running the Gimp 2.4.5 by doing the following: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib /usr/bin/gimp Now the gimp 2.4.5 runs fine. The Gimp web page ( http://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.5.html ) recommends that one creates a startup script where LD_LIBRARY_PATH is FIRST EXPORTED before a version of the Gimp is run. But I am nervous about exporting a variable that would cause Ubuntu to FIRST load libraries in /usr/lib and then load libraries in /usr/local/lib. That might break some other applications if they are run after the Gimp is run in this startup script. Does anyone know whether the failure to export LD_LIBRARY_PATH (as shown above) will cause any problems trying to run the Gimp 2.4.5? It does not seem to cause any problems. At least the Gimp 2.4.5 runs now. P.S. Perhaps the best way is to recompile Gimpshop and tell the compiler to store its libraries in a different location such as /usr/local/gimplibs. And then do run the following to get gimpshop working: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/gimplibs /usr/local/bin/gimp Or Perhaps I don't even need to recompile. Just more the libs onto /usr/local/gimplibs. _ ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] gimpshop breaks Gimp 2.4 in Ubuntu Hardy Heron
Robert Kennedy writes: After more testing and investigation, it looks like AWN is NOT to blame in breaking the gimp in Hardy Heron [ ... ] But then I did a sudo ldconfig. Then gimp stopped working. (But gimpshop still worked). If you did a ldd `which gimp-2.4`, you would see the gimp loading some (but not all) libraries from /usr/local/lib where gimpshop installed libraries. [ ... ] So it does look like a packaging issue. The gimpshop package should be modified to show a conflict with gimp. But since the gimpshop project appears to be dead that is not likely to happen. It's a fairly well known problem, at least among people who maintain both a locally built gimp and the one installed from their distro. The current 2.5 release notes have a reasonable description of what's happening (which also apply to gimpshop or any version of gimp you might want to build yourself while still keeping a system-installed version), and how to fix it: http://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.5.html (scroll down to Installation). Whoever builds that gimpshop packageshould probably be doing this, though maybe they just assume that no one would ever want both gimp and gimpshop on the same system (but in that case, it should be marked as a conflict in the package dependencies, as you say). Failing that, you could probably fix it by moving all the gimpshop stuff to some other place and using a script like the one in the 2.5 release notes. ...Akkana ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop list
On Thursday 12 July 2007 19:13, Chris Mohler wrote: On 7/12/07, John R. Culleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone can set up a list at yahoogroups. I see some with three members. The owner of the list can set the rules, allow anyone to join or requre preapproval, prescreen or not prescreen posts, set up assistant moderators and so on. I am the lead moderator on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have two essentially coequal co-moderators. The owner of the list is SPAN. It is a comprehensive service and it is free. It isn't perfect but what is? Yahoo Group messages are nastily formatted HTML. I hear the Google Groups has added mailing lists -- I wonder if that's any better? On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we ask for plain text. I can't remember if we set a parameter to insist on that. I know that the messages I clear are all in plain text. So your statement doesn't apply in our case at least. I see HTML on a few other lists but those senders get yelled at. HTML has no place in email IMO. If the mail is not from one of my mailing lists or from a designated client I have a filter that sends HTML bearing mail to a special folder. 98% of such mail is SPAM. I delete based on subject line. -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop list
On 7/13/07, John R. Culleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 12 July 2007 19:13, Chris Mohler wrote: [...] Yahoo Group messages are nastily formatted HTML. I hear the Google Groups has added mailing lists -- I wonder if that's any better? On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we ask for plain text. I can't remember if we set a parameter to insist on that. I know that the messages I clear are all in plain text. So your statement doesn't apply in our case at least. I see HTML on a few other lists but those senders get yelled at. HTML has no place in email IMO. If the mail is not from one of my mailing lists or from a designated client I have a filter that sends HTML bearing mail to a special folder. 98% of such mail is SPAM. I delete based on subject line. Good news. I'm on only one of those Yahoo lists, and I assumed text wasn't an option - who wouldn't turn off that nasty HTML!? For those who haven't got one: they're particularly ugly! Going to bitch at that particular list admin right now... ;) Chris ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop list
On Thursday 12 July 2007, Manish Singh wrote: Why is this our problem? Our list our community is being distracted by it. That gives us a facet of the problem. We can reduce that facet by simply saying That's a GimpShop problem, please take it http://here/; in response. Hopefully, this will prompt GimpShop developer(s) to put up their own fora, even if only in self defence. One possible (not likely, you'll notice, but possible) outcome is that having GIMP-friendly moderators will lead to participants pressuring GimpShop developers to turn it into a a collection of patches on GIMP, or maybe a GIMP module of some kind. Cheers; Leon -- http://cyberknights.com.au/ Modern tools; traditional dedication http://plug.linux.org.au/ Member, Perth Linux User Group http://slpwa.asn.au/Member, Linux Professionals WA http://osia.net.au/ Member, Open Source Industry Australia http://linux.org.au/Committee Member, Linux Australia ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop list
On Wednesday 11 July 2007 17:16, Leon Brooks wrote: On Thursday 12 July 2007, Manish Singh wrote: The GPL allows forks, but doesn't require the organization that was forked from to provide support to the fork. True. However, I'm wondering if there's anyone here willing to moderate such a list, what it would coist to run such at Berkeley? The logic is that it would take such posts away from the main list (which you're reading now) really be helping people. The downside is that it could be seen as supporting GimpShop despite the developer's entire unwillingness to join this community. In answer to the second point, are are any other good, free (yeah, yeah, I know) list servers in action that you'd recommend someone independant started a support list on? The idea behind that is to take the traffic away but still be able to monitor it, so that despite said developer's approach, good ideas could be captured for the benefit of *both* packages. And, who knows, bad ideas might even get a little slapping about before anyone implements them, so establishing a precendent. If enough people here think the idea's basically a winner, I might ask Linux Australia to be a list host, with the idea of inviting a few others here along as moderators. Cheers; Leon Anyone can set up a list at yahoogroups. I see some with three members. The owner of the list can set the rules, allow anyone to join or requre preapproval, prescreen or not prescreen posts, set up assistant moderators and so on. I am the lead moderator on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have two essentially coequal co-moderators. The owner of the list is SPAN. It is a comprehensive service and it is free. It isn't perfect but what is? -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop list
On 7/12/07, John R. Culleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone can set up a list at yahoogroups. I see some with three members. The owner of the list can set the rules, allow anyone to join or requre preapproval, prescreen or not prescreen posts, set up assistant moderators and so on. I am the lead moderator on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have two essentially coequal co-moderators. The owner of the list is SPAN. It is a comprehensive service and it is free. It isn't perfect but what is? Yahoo Group messages are nastily formatted HTML. I hear the Google Groups has added mailing lists -- I wonder if that's any better? Chris ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop list
On Thursday 12 July 2007, Manish Singh wrote: The GPL allows forks, but doesn't require the organization that was forked from to provide support to the fork. True. However, I'm wondering if there's anyone here willing to moderate such a list, what it would coist to run such at Berkeley? The logic is that it would take such posts away from the main list (which you're reading now) really be helping people. The downside is that it could be seen as supporting GimpShop despite the developer's entire unwillingness to join this community. In answer to the second point, are are any other good, free (yeah, yeah, I know) list servers in action that you'd recommend someone independant started a support list on? The idea behind that is to take the traffic away but still be able to monitor it, so that despite said developer's approach, good ideas could be captured for the benefit of *both* packages. And, who knows, bad ideas might even get a little slapping about before anyone implements them, so establishing a precendent. If enough people here think the idea's basically a winner, I might ask Linux Australia to be a list host, with the idea of inviting a few others here along as moderators. Cheers; Leon -- http://cyberknights.com.au/ Modern tools; traditional dedication http://plug.linux.org.au/ Member, Perth Linux User Group http://slpwa.asn.au/Member, Linux Professionals WA http://osia.net.au/ Member, Open Source Industry Australia http://linux.org.au/Committee Member, Linux Australia ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop list
On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 05:16:56AM +0800, Leon Brooks wrote: On Thursday 12 July 2007, Manish Singh wrote: The GPL allows forks, but doesn't require the organization that was forked from to provide support to the fork. True. However, I'm wondering if there's anyone here willing to moderate such a list, what it would coist to run such at Berkeley? The logic is that it would take such posts away from the main list (which you're reading now) really be helping people. The downside is that it could be seen as supporting GimpShop despite the developer's entire unwillingness to join this community. In answer to the second point, are are any other good, free (yeah, yeah, I know) list servers in action that you'd recommend someone independant started a support list on? The idea behind that is to take the traffic away but still be able to monitor it, so that despite said developer's approach, good ideas could be captured for the benefit of *both* packages. And, who knows, bad ideas might even get a little slapping about before anyone implements them, so establishing a precendent. If enough people here think the idea's basically a winner, I might ask Linux Australia to be a list host, with the idea of inviting a few others here along as moderators. Why is this our problem? The initial response to the GimpShop question was to ask the GimpShop people for support? How about everyone who likes GimpShop to ask the guy who started it to have a mailing list or some other support forum, and his own bug tracker? If he doesn't want to do this, this is a gigantic reason *not* to use GimpShop. Alternatively, the same people who like GimpShop could ask him why he doesn't/didn't actually work contructively with the community. -Yosh ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Brendan wrote: On Thursday 02 March 2006 08:19, Geoffrey wrote: Because Gimshop has generated more excitement than the Gimp ever has and certain people might be a little ruffled? Who are you kidding? Why don't you simply take your trolling elsewhere. I've been using gimp for years now, never had an interest in using it in a windows environment, never will. I'm not interested in seeing GIMP emulate Photoshop. You don't like what I say, so it's trolling? From wikipedia: In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants. I've heard very little about GIMPSHOP, yet you claim it's 'generated more excitement then the Gimp ever has.' Are you that insecure? Now that is funny. I have used Gimp for years, mostly in Linux, but also in Windows. I even owned a school that taught Gimp in a class. So, you could say that I am a bit of a cheerleader. I don't give a rat's that you don't like my opinion, because it's something I hear often...comparisons and wishes about it and PS. How about backing up your statement with some facts? Google: gimp: 30,600,000 hits gimpshop: 447,000 hits Wow, that's a lot of excitement alright. Then let them stay with Photoshop if their issue is such. They want their cake and eat it too. They want GIMP price, but they don't want to learn a better interface. You say better... I think we have reached the limit of your ability to converse thoughtfully in this conversation. My ability extends well beyond your understanding. fortunately or unfortunately. It's a shame that Gimpshop as a project isn't really much in the way of structure, but why not rip it off and inspire them to get better? Make fun of them until they change? Write a guide for people to make Gimpshop proper for inclusion, and heck, even I might give it a shot. You can not fix the way it was created. That is the issue at hand. As other's have noted, the creator of GIMPSHOP has created confusion by not following the accepted protocol for forking an application. He/she should have made reasonable attempts to work with the existing developers. As it is, it's a poor and confusing hack. Oh well, it's done, so let's take what it generated and try to bring something positive out of it. Trying to surf the wave of interest would be NICE. Just because something has 'happened' doesn't mean you accept it. I personally don't want to start seeing confusing posts regarding interfaces because someone is posting about gimpshop on a gimp list. They are not the same, and the creation of gimpshop was not done in a respectable way with regard to the original work. It was not done in a way that respects the years of work that the developers have put into the GIMP. I'd suggest that someone create a GIMPSHOP list and post questions regarding that charade there. -- Until later, Geoffrey War never solved anything, well, except slavery, fascism and communism ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Am 05.03.2006 um 06:41 schrieb Brendan: On Saturday 04 March 2006 09:07, Geoffrey wrote: lots of flaming and trolling in here You couldn't do this war on private pm instead of the list? Could you?! ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user --- Live is like a chocolate box, you never know what you wanna get... GPG Signatur auf http://wernicke-online.net/Impressum/ prüfen PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Brendan wrote: On Wednesday 01 March 2006 05:46, Manish Singh wrote: Gimpshop slaps the people who know the code of gimp in the face, and then expects gimp.org to take up the slack because they don't know how to properly support a community. I don't see why the animosity is so surprising. Because Gimshop has generated more excitement than the Gimp ever has and certain people might be a little ruffled? Who are you kidding? Why don't you simply take your trolling elsewhere. I've been using gimp for years now, never had an interest in using it in a windows environment, never will. I'm not interested in seeing GIMP emulate Photoshop. Perhaps because Gimpshop fulfills a need that has been ignored for a long time? Artists get used to a tool and they don't want to learn a new one. Photoshop is usually that tool, Then let them stay with Photoshop if their issue is such. They want their cake and eat it too. They want GIMP price, but they don't want to learn a better interface. fortunately or unfortunately. It's a shame that Gimpshop as a project isn't really much in the way of structure, but why not rip it off and inspire them to get better? Make fun of them until they change? Write a guide for people to make Gimpshop proper for inclusion, and heck, even I might give it a shot. You can not fix the way it was created. That is the issue at hand. As other's have noted, the creator of GIMPSHOP has created confusion by not following the accepted protocol for forking an application. He/she should have made reasonable attempts to work with the existing developers. As it is, it's a poor and confusing hack. -- Until later, Geoffrey War never solved anything, well, except slavery, fascism and communism ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Ross Brown wrote: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:45:28 + From: Ross Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: GIMPUser Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop Sorry for jumping in half-way through a conversation that I haven't been entirely privy to - but I just wanted to make a suggestion/point that is (I hope) relevant. relevancy never stopped anyone on the internet Perhaps all that's really needed is the PS menu-GIMP menu mapping document in a proposal as a cheat sheet. When Adobe launched InDesign, it was taking on a dominant market leader in Quark XPress. People like me who had used XPress for years were used to a certain way of working and innately knew a load of keyboard shortcuts etc for doing our jobs. What Adobe did was inspired: yes, you could, out of the box, use InDesign as Adobe intended or, with the flick of a preference button, InDesign was set- up to recognise and use the XPress shortcuts that people were used to. psmenurc is a file which contains Photoshop style keyboards shortcuts, and if you use it to replace the standard menurc you get something similar to what you suggest, although but not the easy at the ~flick of switch part~. - Alan H. ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 01:01:12AM -0600, Robert Citek wrote: On Feb 28, 2006, at 12:20 AM, Manish Singh wrote: On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:01:05AM -0600, Robert Citek wrote: Would you consider Gimpshop a successful fork? Considering Gimpshop can't even keep their own website online, I'd say no. Then why the fuss? The fuss is about the complete half assed nature of it. A successful fork would be better, since a successful fork would maintain its own support resources, like separate mailing lists, a separate bug tracker, separate irc channels... all the stuff mentioned on that producingoss.com site. Forks aren't necessarily bad. All the major Linux distro vendors effectively fork the Linux kernel. But they maintain proper support channels to maintain the fork, and thus polluting the mainline kernel resources isn't much of a problem. Gimpshop slaps the people who know the code of gimp in the face, and then expects gimp.org to take up the slack because they don't know how to properly support a community. I don't see why the animosity is so surprising. BTW, Robert, you have a bad habit of not answering questions posed to you here. I'm going to do the same thing to you, to illustrate how it feels. -Yosh ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop (was: blue + yellow = green)
On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 09:24:15AM +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, Selon Manish Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For Gimpshop, it was all about forking from the get go. There was no discussion, no proposal in any of the several places to discuss GIMP development. No other possibilities were attempted. Put things in perspective - the guy wrote a patch. It's a couple of hundred lines of a patch, which did something he wanted to do in the easiest way he knew how. He did a grep for labels in the source code, and changed them where he found them. Yes, he could have done it differently, but what he did was useful for a bunch of people, and wasn't acceptable for integration into the main GIMP source code. So I have no problem with him coming out with the patched GIMP under a different name. If it was put in bugzilla, the patch would have been refused, or we would have asked him to work on it. So why worry? I'm happy to see this kind of thing happenning around the GIMP. He didn't change the name even. All the windows still say GIMP. It only adds to the confusion already. Nearly everything about the way Gimpshop came about makes me think is it stupidity, or malice? Rejecting a project community without even trying is *not* the way people should go about things. This is the second time in a week that someone has misrepresented Gimpshop's UI as GIMP. There's already enough misinformation out on the internet, it's deplorable that Gimpshop has worsened the situation. Such behavior should not be encouraged. -Yosh ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop (was: blue + yellow = green)
On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:48:06AM +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Selon Michael Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Von: Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it was put in bugzilla, the patch would have been refused, or we would have asked him to work on it. That's how things are handled in Bugzilla, so what is the problem? The guy scratched an itch. Why should he go to a lot of effort to have that change integrated into GIMP CVS? What's in it for him? He scratched an itch, and moved on. Great! I'm happy for him. Scratched an itch, and caused tons of confusion in a community. Horrible. So why worry? I'm happy to see this kind of thing happenning around the GIMP. We are worried because some people don't make a distinction between Gimpshop and GIMP. And? He changed some labels and shortcuts - is it any less the GIMP for that? I would say no. You'd be wrong. Misinformation about the UI doesn't help anybody. It's not even clear to people that they are using a patched GIMP. Maybe I should take Fedora, rename it Debora, but only on the CD packaging, and rename the rpm command to dpkg, and make 1/2 the command line options to it match dpkg, and maybe changing some help text here and there, and release it as something that eases the transition from Debian to Fedora. And lag a couple months behind Fedora on all bug fixes, so Debora users don't upgrade, even for security critical bugs. Also, push all the support concerns onto Fedora proper, they'd be thrilled to handle it right? And I'm sure Fedora users would love hearing about dpkg on their lists and not be confused at all. I'm scratching an itch. It's all good, right? -Yosh ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop (was: blue + yellow = green)
On Wednesday 01 March 2006 06:01, Manish Singh wrote: Scratched an itch, and caused tons of confusion in a community. Horrible. Oh well, it's done. Bitching now isn't helping, so why not try to resolve the situation? ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 08:39:41PM -0500, Brendan wrote: On Wednesday 01 March 2006 05:46, Manish Singh wrote: Gimpshop slaps the people who know the code of gimp in the face, and then expects gimp.org to take up the slack because they don't know how to properly support a community. I don't see why the animosity is so surprising. Because Gimshop has generated more excitement than the Gimp ever has and certain people might be a little ruffled? Perhaps because Gimpshop fulfills a need that has been ignored for a long time? Artists get used to a tool and they don't want to learn a new one. Photoshop is usually that tool, fortunately or unfortunately. It's a shame that Gimpshop as a project isn't really much in the way of structure, but why not rip it off and inspire them to get better? Make fun of them until they change? Write a guide for people to make Gimpshop proper for inclusion, and heck, even I might give it a shot. Give it a shot. Make a proposal to the developer list, detailing what you'd like to see and why it would help you. Actually detail what the menus are in photoshop, and what the equivalents are in GIMP, and give justification. Same for keybindings. Do not assume people reading the list have access to Photoshop. Be prepared to defend your ideas. The key thing being here is you're interacting with the existing community, instead of insulting them by implicitly saying that they don't matter by ignoring them completely. I have to say, it is a little hard to believe that people are so set in their ways that the naming of the menus makes such a huge difference, but not set in their ways that the other *huge* UI differences aren't such a big deal. Maybe people only *think* that it makes a difference, and that perception is enough to get over some stubborness in their brains? It'd be interesting to videotape someone using Gimp vs. Gimpshop and see if it actually is a productivity enhancement. Perhaps all that's really needed is the PS menu-GIMP menu mapping document in a proposal as a cheat sheet. -Yosh ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Sorry for jumping in half-way through a conversation that I haven't been entirely privy to - but I just wanted to make a suggestion/point that is (I hope) relevant. On 2 Mar 2006March2, at 02:33, Manish Singh wrote: Perhaps all that's really needed is the PS menu-GIMP menu mapping document in a proposal as a cheat sheet. When Adobe launched InDesign, it was taking on a dominant market leader in Quark XPress. People like me who had used XPress for years were used to a certain way of working and innately knew a load of keyboard shortcuts etc for doing our jobs. What Adobe did was inspired: yes, you could, out of the box, use InDesign as Adobe intended or, with the flick of a preference button, InDesign was set- up to recognise and use the XPress shortcuts that people were used to. If Gimp is to become a replacement for Photoshop then, whether it appears to be good practice or not, it has to accommodate its potential users and work as they are used to working (in the short term at least). I'm sure there are many people who will argue - and possible quite rightly - that the Gimp is not a Photoshop replacement but, for many, many people, it is and as more people make the move from Photoshop, surely the Gimp's relevancy, exposure and quality can only improve. As I said, I might be speaking out of turn (if so, I apologise) but, if I'm understanding the thread correctly, I hope this point is relevant. RB ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Ross Brown wrote: If Gimp is to become a replacement for Photoshop then, whether it appears to be good practice or not, it has to accommodate its potential users and work as they are used to working (in the short term at least). I'm sure there are many people who will argue - and possible quite rightly - that the Gimp is not a Photoshop replacement but, for many, many people, it is and as more people make the move from Photoshop, surely the Gimp's relevancy, exposure and quality can only improve. I think you make a great point but I don't think improvements in Gimp's quality or relevance is based on or related to PhotoShop user acceptance at all. Peace... Tom ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Manish Singh wrote: Give it a shot. Make a proposal to the developer list, detailing what you'd like to see and why it would help you. Actually detail what the menus are in photoshop, and what the equivalents are in GIMP, and give justification. Same for keybindings. Do not assume people reading the list have access to Photoshop. Be prepared to defend your ideas. Walks by nonchalantly, whistling. Here are some screen shots of me working in Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) CS. http://umich.edu/~hnarayan/PS_Screens/ Notes: 0. 000_all.zip in the above URL gives you all files. 1. They just happened to be lying around. 2. The colours, if off, are because of needing to use rdesktop. 3. There are some perks to being at the uni. 4. I cannot believe how much I missed the right-click menu on the images, and I was barely doing anything. I love the GIMP. Harish ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Hi, I'm also just jumping in to this conversation. To be honest when I heard about Gimpshop I got excited about using Gimp again. I've downloaded it and have used it and having the familiar menus made it far easier for me to use the program. I think that there is a larger question that needs to be posed: What kind of beta testing is done by professional designers? I met a beta tester for Adobe, she's a professor at the School of Visual Art in NYC, andit was quite interesting to hear her talk about some of her experiences and how she talks to Photoshop developers. The relationship is pretty simple: developers cater to the needs of designers. To take an example that would also apply to Gimp, when showing us different methods she came across a tool that didn't allow you to preview the effect and she simply said,This is pretty useless, you can't see what you're doing. So there is a functional and productive criticism. Designing is a visual process obviously, if I can't see the effect, be it transforming or using a filter, it makes my job a whole lot harder and consumes more of my time via guessing, undoing, and reapplying the filter. It's like drawing with a blindfold. Anyway to make a long story slightly longer I think part of moving forward for Gimp would be to start to beta test with real professional designers, the ones who's work you admire. I think that Gimp's market potential isn't as an adobe REPLACEMENT, not at this point anyway, it is more of a SUBSTITUTE (there is a difference). I think it would serve better as filling the niche for those people who don't actually own a legit copy of photoshop. If peoplediscover they don't have to break the law because there is an adequate substitute that performs similarly to photoshop people will use Gimp in droves. And to add to that what Gimp can allow for is a program that can fully cater to the experience of a user. I think it would be awesome if you could specify gimp to hide tools that wouldn't be used by the user ie. my 4 year old niece. Maybe there could be different skins or profilesdependent on the anticipated use of the user. You could set the programmer to beginner and it would resemble MS Paint. Anyway, these are all ideas. I think the main thing is to think creatively about who Gimp's audience actually is. Right now, in all honesty, it isn't a pro designer. GImp isn't something that people in my office could use everyday. In fact, using it once they'd probably never touch it again. It's funny because I just signed up on this email list because I wanted to talk about this subject! As it so happens I've written a critique of some of the features from a designers/usability perspective. Where would be a good place to post it? All the best, Paul openartist.net wie.org (senior designer for the magazine) PS: Gimp has the potential to rival Adobe Photoshop, perhaps not in features or in the number of pro users, but in the number of lay users (unregistered pirates). PPS: I also just thought of the the use that students could have for GImp. Teachers could recommend it as a free photoshop-like alternative for finishing homework in the event they don't have a copy of it themselves. DRM techcology is going to keep getting better so it will be harder for students to obtain illegal copies in the future. PPPS: Does anyone ever talk about how GImp literally means lame? From a branding perspective that's the worstname you could ever use. Your brand and logo is your chance to make that good first impression and rather boldly you tell potential users that you're handicapped before they even find out for themselves! On 3/1/06, Tom Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ross Brown wrote: If Gimp is to become a replacement for Photoshop then, whether it appears to be good practice or not, it has to accommodate its potential users and work as they are used to working (in the short term at least). I'm sure there are many people who will argue - and possible quite rightly - that the Gimp is not a Photoshop replacement but, for many, many people, it is and as more people make the move from Photoshop, surely the Gimp's relevancy, exposure and quality can only improve.I think you make a great point but I don't think improvements in Gimp's quality or relevance is based on or related to PhotoShop user acceptanceat all.Peace...Tom___Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDUhttps://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Paul Bloch wrote: To take an example that would also apply to Gimp, when showing us different methods she came across a tool that didn't allow you to preview the effect and she simply said,This is pretty useless, you can't see what you're doing. So there is a functional and productive criticism. Designing is a visual process obviously, if I can't see the effect, be it transforming or using a filter, it makes my job a whole lot harder and consumes more of my time via guessing, undoing, and reapplying the filter. It's like drawing with a blindfold. Anyway to make a long story slightly longer I think part of moving forward for Gimp would be to start to beta test with real professional designers, the ones who's work you admire. I think this is a great idea. Ideally, the pro designers would be able to focus on the usability of Gimp *outside* of the context of PhotoShop. That way, we could minimize bias based on familiarity. With all of the talk of wanting Gimp to look/feel like PhotoShop, there hasn't been much discussion of PhotoShop's UI being considered good. I had this kind of discussion with someone else who slammed the Gimp UI and much to my surprise he slammed the PhotoShop UI as being about as bad. :) I think the intent should be to strive for a solid UI that is intuitive, not necessarily to mimic one that is basically familiar and that's about it. I think that Gimp's market potential isn't as an adobe REPLACEMENT, not at this point anyway, it is more of a SUBSTITUTE (there is a difference). I think it would serve better as filling the niche for those people who don't actually own a legit copy of photoshop. If people discover they don't have to break the law because there is an adequate substitute that performs similarly to photoshop people will use Gimp in droves. And to add to that what Gimp can allow for is a program that can fully cater to the experience of a user. The thing is, Gimp serves that purpose today. I can't comment on the droves part. :) People don't have to break the law if they use Gimp. People don't use PhotoShop primarily because they like the UI, they use it for what it can do with digital images. People learn the PhotoShop UI so they can do interesting things with those images. People can do interesting things with digital images using Gimp, but they do those things in a different way. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think the main thing is to think creatively about who Gimp's audience actually is. This is a good point and one issue I see is those who are screaming for a PhotoShop interface feel THEY are Gimp's actual audience when I'm not even sure what Gimp's audience actually is. Peace... Tom ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop (was: blue + yellow = green)
Hi, Selon Manish Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For Gimpshop, it was all about forking from the get go. There was no discussion, no proposal in any of the several places to discuss GIMP development. No other possibilities were attempted. Put things in perspective - the guy wrote a patch. It's a couple of hundred lines of a patch, which did something he wanted to do in the easiest way he knew how. He did a grep for labels in the source code, and changed them where he found them. Yes, he could have done it differently, but what he did was useful for a bunch of people, and wasn't acceptable for integration into the main GIMP source code. So I have no problem with him coming out with the patched GIMP under a different name. If it was put in bugzilla, the patch would have been refused, or we would have asked him to work on it. So why worry? I'm happy to see this kind of thing happenning around the GIMP. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary Lyon, France ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Von: Robert Citek [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Feb 28, 2006, at 12:20 AM, Manish Singh wrote: On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:01:05AM -0600, Robert Citek wrote: Would you consider Gimpshop a successful fork? Considering Gimpshop can't even keep their own website online, I'd say no. Then why the fuss? Because you seem to be discussing it. But enough trash talk about Gimpshop. Tell me how wonderful this forum is. What makes this forum shine? Well, I'd be more happy to answer this if you drop forum and use list instead. The most shiny thing is that you got a lot of people here who are experienced with both GIMP and communicating over a mailing list (the latter is something that's quickly becoming rare). Tell me how this forum recruits new users/volunteers to test software, The development releases and their features get mentioned if someone asks a question that touches this topic. file bug reports, Bug reports are referenced, and users are encouraged to search bugzilla or file bugs for things that seem to be strange. and write docs and tutorials. We reference our docs, and there has the occasional hint to contribute to them. That is, how does this forum grow the gimp.org community and enable it to blossom? Well, first the list does exist and it is found among the first results when searching for various terms related to gimp. That's one aspect for blossom. I don't see a mailing list as the primary way for growing a community, though. Maybe there are some papers about this. HTH, Michael -- Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch? NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop (was: blue + yellow = green)
Selon Michael Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Von: Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it was put in bugzilla, the patch would have been refused, or we would have asked him to work on it. That's how things are handled in Bugzilla, so what is the problem? The guy scratched an itch. Why should he go to a lot of effort to have that change integrated into GIMP CVS? What's in it for him? He scratched an itch, and moved on. Great! I'm happy for him. So why worry? I'm happy to see this kind of thing happenning around the GIMP. We are worried because some people don't make a distinction between Gimpshop and GIMP. And? He changed some labels and shortcuts - is it any less the GIMP for that? I would say no. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary Lyon, France ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Michael Schumacher wrote: Von: Robert Citek [EMAIL PROTECTED] But enough trash talk about Gimpshop. Tell me how wonderful this forum is. What makes this forum shine? Well, I'd be more happy to answer this if you drop forum and use list instead. fo·rum Pronunciation (fôrm, fr-) n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr) 1. a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business. b. A public meeting place for open discussion. c. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program. 2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation. 3. A court of law; a tribunal. Robert was apparently using the term forum in the context of 1b - a public meeting place for open discussion. On the internet, forum is frequently used as an umbrella term that collectively refers to the different online discussion methods. Mailing lists (both those with and without webpage interfaces), usenet and non-usenet newsgroups, BBSs, web forums (in the sense of 1c, a specific medium), Tribe tribes, Orkut communities etc. are all forums in the sense that they are all public meeting places (on the internet) for open discussion of various topics. So when someone asks you to tell them how wonderful this forum is, you can assume they are inviting comparison with all other forums on the topic, not just other mailing lists. The term forum is especially useful for discussion forums that take multiple forms at the same time. Some people see usenet groups as newsgroups (read with a news reader) and others see it as this site (because they view it thru a web interface such as google groups, or a gateway website). A similar problem exists for Yahoo Groups which are both mailing lists and this site to different users. The term this forum will be correct for all users, where using this newsgroup or this list or this site can be confusing for users who don't understand the various ways the discussion forum is made available. jc ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
Michael Schumacher wrote: JC Dill wrote: So when someone asks you to tell them how wonderful this forum is, you can assume they are inviting comparison with all other forums on the topic, not just other mailing lists. Well, this is a mailing list. Anyone who uses it via a different access vector should be aware of this - mailing lists, like newsgroups, have more formal requirements to the message style than e.g. a web forum. For example: proper quoting, character encoding, addressing, ... All of that is irrelevant to the context of how forum was used. It was used as an umbrella term to include this list as well as all other lists, forums, usenet groups, etc. that could be compared with this list. jc ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
JC Dill wrote: Michael Schumacher wrote: JC Dill wrote: So when someone asks you to tell them how wonderful this forum is, you can assume they are inviting comparison with all other forums on the topic, not just other mailing lists. Well, this is a mailing list. Anyone who uses it via a different access vector should be aware of this - mailing lists, like newsgroups, have more formal requirements to the message style than e.g. a web forum. For example: proper quoting, character encoding, addressing, ... All of that is irrelevant to the context of how forum was used. It was used as an umbrella term to include this list as well as all other lists, forums, usenet groups, etc. that could be compared with this list. I think we have beat this horse sufficiently. It is dead, please let's move on to relevant subjects.. -- Until later, Geoffrey War never solved anything, well, except slavery, fascism and communism ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop (was: blue + yellow = green)
On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:01:05AM -0600, Robert Citek wrote: On Feb 27, 2006, at 10:54 PM, Manish Singh wrote: The guy who did Gimpshop decided to do his own thing, and didn't consult the community at all before doing it. Since he didn't engage the community and those who actually know the code best, he did it in a completely stupid fashion technically. He forked the code. So, he forked the code. You think he's stupid. And this forum does not want to help Gimpshop users. Based on those comments I thought I would go back and reread this section on Forkability[1] and this section on Forks[2] in Producing Open Source Software[3]. Would you consider Gimpshop a successful fork? Considering Gimpshop can't even keep their own website online, I'd say no. [2] http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/forks.html From the above page: Initiating a Fork All the advice here assumes that you are forking as a last resort. Exhaust all other possibilities before starting a fork. For Gimpshop, it was all about forking from the get go. There was no discussion, no proposal in any of the several places to discuss GIMP development. No other possibilities were attempted. The Gimpshop guy ignored pretty much everything in that Producing Open Source Software document, which you seem to hold in high enough regard to reference it here. Is this someone who rejects it so utterly worthy of supporting? -Yosh ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimpshop
On Feb 28, 2006, at 12:20 AM, Manish Singh wrote: On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 12:01:05AM -0600, Robert Citek wrote: Would you consider Gimpshop a successful fork? Considering Gimpshop can't even keep their own website online, I'd say no. Then why the fuss? But enough trash talk about Gimpshop. Tell me how wonderful this forum is. What makes this forum shine? Tell me how this forum recruits new users/volunteers to test software, file bug reports, and write docs and tutorials. That is, how does this forum grow the gimp.org community and enable it to blossom? Regards, - Robert http://www.cwelug.org/downloads Help others get OpenSource software. Distribute FLOSS for Windows, Linux, *BSD, and MacOS X with BitTorrent ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop
Maybe GimpShop should become an option in the Gimp preferences ? You choose the interface you want when you install The Gimp, and you can change it in the Preferences... PA. --- Tom Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wayne wrote: One thing good about GimpShop is that I am now able to run Gimp 2.2.4. Have not been able to install a RPM successfully till now. Wayne :) Peace... Tom ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user __ Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop
On Samedi 02 Avril 2005 19:28, Pierre-Alexis wrote: Maybe GimpShop should become an option in the Gimp preferences ? You choose the interface you want when you install The Gimp, and you can change it in the Preferences... This is really a good idea. Instead of having an other version, I think this could be integrated in the main Gimp developpement. -- Frédéric http://www.gbiloba.org pgpy9RR7rqaQF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005, Pierre-Alexis wrote: Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:28:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Pierre-Alexis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop Maybe GimpShop should become an option in the Gimp preferences ? You choose the interface you want when you install The Gimp, and you can change it in the Preferences... The last thing the GIMP needs is another option at startup. Pick good defaults, and offer preferences. -- Alan Horkan. ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop
Those who crave a PhotoShop interface almost finally have it. :) Thanks for the link. I will pass on this.. Peace... Tom wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: To gimp-user-bounces gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu @lists.xcf.berkel cc ey.edu Subject [Gimp-user] GimpShop 04/01/2005 11:26 AM Anyone tried GimpShop yet? Just wondering what the buzz is all about. http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241 Wayne ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop
I tried it and didn't see any changes to the interface. GimpShop only rearranges the menu structure to emulate Photoshop's a little closer. It's really meant for a PS user who is transitioning to the Gimp. If you're familar w/the Gimp, there's no need to use it (correct me if I'm wrong). Eric P. On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 03:44:58PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those who crave a PhotoShop interface almost finally have it. :) Thanks for the link. I will pass on this.. Peace... Tom wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: To gimp-user-bounces gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu @lists.xcf.berkel cc ey.edu Subject [Gimp-user] GimpShop 04/01/2005 11:26 AM Anyone tried GimpShop yet? Just wondering what the buzz is all about. http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241 Wayne ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop
On Friday 01 April 2005 05:06 pm, Tom Williams wrote: Eric Pierce wrote: I tried it and didn't see any changes to the interface. GimpShop only rearranges the menu structure to emulate Photoshop's a little closer. It's really meant for a PS user who is transitioning to the Gimp. If you're familar w/the Gimp, there's no need to use it (correct me if I'm wrong). Eric P. Yeah, you're right but what concerns me is this kind of interface will cause people to view The Gimp as a free PhotoShop vs The Gimp. It it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... you get the idea. :) I wonder if this will actually go anywhere. :) Peace... Tom One thing good about GimpShop is that I am now able to run Gimp 2.2.4. Have not been able to install a RPM successfully till now. Wayne ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] GimpShop
wayne wrote: One thing good about GimpShop is that I am now able to run Gimp 2.2.4. Have not been able to install a RPM successfully till now. Wayne :) Peace... Tom ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
