[h-cost] rayon velvet any use?
A friend is offering me 8m (the 8m is based on her recollection, we haven't actually measured it) of Rayon velvet as a gift, or otherwise it's going to charity, it's a nice dark tan colour but I'm a little concerned by how shiny it is would that change when I washed it? (I have never worked with Rayon Velvet as you don't see it in the shops here mostly it's poly/acetate deep pile velvet or cotton velveteen) So, in short would it be worth my while to take it? or would it be better off going to charity where somebody else will make something modern from it? Also if I were to take it what sort of era would suit 8m of Rayon velvet? I'm primarily interested in Tudor (my first thought was something like http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Mary5.jpg or a loose gown like this http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Mary09.jpg) but I'm also open to Elizabethan, 18th or 19th century ideas (there's nothing preventing me from doing 17th century except that I haven't yet come across a 17th century fashion that really grabs me and says wear me!) thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] launching a new Am I Period or Not website (cross post)
snip I wish you luck with your new venture. However, the original website took a picture from my personal website without my permission - a fantasy costume and so specified - and made a critique as if it was an historical one. I do hope that this will not happen on your new version. Suzi I will do what I can to stop image theft but I don't have the resources to search the internet every time somebody submits a picture so, I'm going to work on a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. However I will keep a record of the name of the person who submits a photo and if somebody brings it to my attention I will ban any image thief from submitting more photos. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: costume critique/discussion website
snip If there was a place to put your worst creation, I would love to put this one. Jonica snip hmm, maybe in the fantasy section with a note in the description explaining what it is. If other people are interested I could create and Oh My God What Was I Thinking section (or something along those lines) http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] French Hood images revised
- Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 12:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] French Hood images revised Hi all again, I've injured my shoulder back doing many scans and enlargements so I had to take a couple of days away from the computer. But I've been a busy bee updating the French hood image page for all the images people have sent me links of. I thank them all (and they are noted on the pages). They now range in time from pre 1500s to the 1570s (so far). With the many images coming in, and more still to scan, I've moved everything to its own research section. Old pages will refresh to the new pages. But here is the new url. Renaissance Research: French Hood Images http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood Please, keep those images coming. I have learned so much from seeing these various images, it's really opened my eyes. I hope this helps others with their research as well. Kimiko I notice you haven't got the photos from QEWU of that effigy that shows the veil of the French hood flipped up, showing some sort of bag like headwear underneath. (or perhaps that's one of the ones waiting to be scanned?) Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern (cross post)
I was just looking at the Simplicity website and it appears that there's another Martha McCain ACW pattern #4400 out it's a basic dart fitted bodice (it looks like the same bodice as the last pattern #4510) with a plain skirt and two new sleeve variations (and possibly 2 different collars I'm not sure). If I recall correctly this was due to be the last of the 1860s patterns and the designer is now moving on to 18th century. I'm tempted to grab all of these last three patterns (4551, 4510 4400) next time I see a buy 1 get 2 free sale on Simplicity patterns (we don't get $1.99 sales over here it's either 50% off or buy 1 get 2 free), I love the sleeve variations, it just adds so much diversity to your wardrobe. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern (cross post)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern (cross post) In a message dated 8/16/2005 11:26:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was just looking at the Simplicity website and it appears that there's another Martha McCain ACW pattern #4400 Not bad. Looks like Scarlet's dress she wears thru the Reconstruction. I prefer the fuller sleeves. I just don't see many tight sleeves in 1860s picsactually I can't remember seeing ANY. [1840s is another matter] and the shallow point is very 1850s to me. The cartridge pleating all the way 'round is also very 1840-50s. Most 1860s day dresses have waistlines that go straight across, with the bodice closing CF and the waistband of the attached skirt in flat pleats closing a little left of CF, hidden in a pleat with a hidden pocket there. But y'know...never say never I'll admit the narrow sleeves are not terribly common but they do turn up e.g. http://snipurl.com/h35y [1] the sleeves are still moderately full but not incredibly so, http://snipurl.com/h35z [2] they all have narrow sleeves but especially the woman in black, http://snipurl.com/h362 [3] the woman on the left, and http://snipurl.com/h366 [4] very similar to the design with two puffs but the puffs are larger and more droopy this is also an example of a pointed waist and the woman on the right has a fully pleated skirt. As for the pointed waistline, looking at these fashion plates I see as many pointed waistlines around 1858-60 as I do horizontal waistlines, by about 1862 the pointed waistline has died out in favour of the horizontal waistline. e.g. http://snipurl.com/h36b [5], http://snipurl.com/h36c [6], http://snipurl.com/h36f [7] though this one's a zouave style so maybe it's a special case, http://snipurl.com/h36g [8], http://snipurl.com/h36i [9] and http://snipurl.com/h36j [10] So I'm not sure about combining the elements (though no. 4 does) as the sleeves are generally mid 1860s and the bodice is late 50s to early 60s, but the bodice would certainly suit somebody up to c 1863 who is a year or two behind the fashions and for those who are up to date on the latest fashions it could be a dress which is a couple of years old as this style is not so easily altered as the peplum style bodices if you have cut the skirt to accomodate the point of the bodice (instead of just folding it down). Elizabeth P.S. If the snipped URLs don't work the full URLs are 1. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=154CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 2. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=156CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 3. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=153CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 4. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=143CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 5. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=421CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 6. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=128CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 7. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=151CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTM P=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 8. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=110CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 9. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=129CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb 10. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehistCISOPTR=102CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.htmlCISOVIEWTM P=/site-templates/item_viewer.htmlCISOMODE=thumb ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern (cross post)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity Martha McCain pattern (cross post) In a message dated 8/20/2005 3:19:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://snipurl.com/h35yhttp://snipurl.com/h35z These don't look narrow to me. Granted they aren't pagoda sleevesthey're NARROWER but I'd not say they are fitted at all. And the other examples are all split at the bottom to give that bell shape with the engagent or poofed to have a full silhouette...the effect of the blue dress with the two upper arm poofs. The trend is definitely to have fullness on the arm. And the skirts are flat pleated. snip I was looking at the GBACG pattern review site (http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/simplicity.htm) and reading this note One of the ladies who creates many of the costume patterns for Simplicity was a presenter at Costume Con in Utah ... Another interesting fact she mentioned was that no design can take over 3 sheets of tissue. If it does she either has to abandon the design or take one or two additional views of a single pattern out. It occurred to me that this would explain why the skirts are rectangular instead of gored, pattern pieces for a gored skirt would take up large amounts of tissue paper (and almost certainly put you over the 3 sheets limit) whereas a cartridge pleated skirt only needs directions to cut out rectangles of X length and the full width of the fabric. I know their Elizabethan costume (8881 the Shakespeare in Love dress) compromises using only a few triangular gores (pattern pieces) with instructions to add rectangular pieces, but apparently they couldn't do that for this pattern. For a novice sewer it's much easier to tell them to cut their yardage into 5 pieces of X length and the full width of the fabric than to try to give them instructions on how to create a gored skirt. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Storm update
- Original Message - From: Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] Storm update I had promised last week that we would have a free access to our Library at the beginning of this week. I am taking some days off this week and have to cancel the free access. A lot of people have written asking about the Library access. After you read the following I think you will understand why I am taking a few days off. snip Penny, I'm so sorry to hear about your family, but on the topic of the Costume Library if you've made this promise in several different quarters (aside from this list) perhaps a note on the website itself to the effect that you have to take time out due to large numbers of your families being affected by the hurricane may help stop the emails on the topic. I'm going to take this opportunity to pass on a suggestion that was made on another list, donating to the red cross or other organisations participating in the disaster relief is a good idea in the short term but don't forget about the long term rebuilding of lives as well. Once the essentials are taken care of and things like rebuilding houses has been completed (or is at least well underway) we can help those who share our hobby to get back to their normal life, a lot of our fellow costumers will have lost fabric stashes built up over years, their wardrobe of costumes, patterns, books, sewing machines and all those useful little things you gradually accumulate over the years. Too often people forget about a disaster once it moves off the front pages but perhaps we could think long term. Go through your fabric stash (I'm sure most people on this list have worked out they have more than they are ever likely to use even if they stopped collecting today) Go through your library and work out if you have 2 copies of a useful book, make a copy of your best patterns, Then find a group in the affected area that shares your interests (presumably there are several list members in the area you can ask them once they're back online) and ask them if they would be interested in taking your books/patterns/fabric etc. to share among members of their group. (original credit for the germ of this idea must go to Stephen du Toit on the Renaissance Tailor yahoogroup) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re:storm prayers
- Original Message - From: Lynn Downward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:storm prayers I agree, but I think we should wait a month or so until these communities get back on their feet and have places to live, let alone start a stash of fabric and such. SNIP LynnD On 8/31/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Penny, I love the idea of helping with rebuilding stashes and such. May I send some as well? SNIP For those who would like to give their stash to SCA members a yahoo group has been set up to help organise and coordinate donations of garb gear once our friends and family are ready to resume their SCA life: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-BackToNormal/ Or if you'd rather give it to somebody who does a different time period or a school (as Penny suggested) You'll have to do a web search. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] lacing
- Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: [h-cost] lacing I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? Dawn I always tie off my back lacing garments at the waist, as I usually lace my own garments I can tie it at the waist but I couldn't tie it between my shoulder blades, it's just too awkward. Plus there's the problem of what to do with the leftover cord, it's much easier to tuck it into the skirt than the fitted bodice. Then again I do the exact opposite on my front lacing kirtle because it stops boob droop (the kirtle is boned to act as a corset so by tightening it from the waist I push my breasts up not down) and once I'm laced in it's easier to see what I'm doing at bust level than at waist level (as I can't bend easily). Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Victorian/Edwardian mesh corsets, has anybody tried to make one?
Hi everyone, I was browsing ebay looking for cheap corsets (I've worked out that it's cheaper to buy one of those off the rack satin corsets to rip apart for the steels than to buy the bones by themselves) and I came across this corset from c. 1904 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Airy-c1904-Ladys-Summer-Corset_W0QQitemZ8334930447QQcategoryZ48865QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://snipurl.com/hqx7) I thought this use of mesh would help with some of the complaints you often hear (e.g. 'corsets are too hot to wear in summer', or 'It's too hot to wear that many layers. I'll bone the bodice instead') and I wondered if anybody had experimented with using mesh as a corset fabric and if so was the experiment successful? Any ideas on what sort of fabrics available today would work for such a reproduction? Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - Elizabeth
snip Have you ever read Hunnisett's explanation of the costs asscoiated with making the Ditchley gown for the Elizabeth R series? Why does every production of anything having to do with history have to be perfectly accurate down to the seams? Should the have to go all the way and have reproduction everything? Consider the targeted audience. Most people wouldn't notice any of the detail you speak of. Do your clients? That anyone is producing history films at all is a boon in my mind. If absolute costume accuracy were the criteria, all we would ever see is contemporary films...it would be all that was affordable. Just my two cents Sg snip but seams are the easiest and cheapest thing to get right, no matter how shoestring your budget is princess seams are no cheaper than a period cut (in fact they would be marginally more expensive as they take up more fabric) I can understand things like substituting synthetics for authentic fabrics, so long as it looks OK on film and for any costume that's not going to be seen close up synthetics will probably be fine. But if there were curved seams going over the bust that will throw off the entire silhouette which is blatantly obvious to everyone, admittedly only a small proportion of the viewers will know it's wrong but if the argument that only a small proportion of the viewers will know that it's wrong is the basis for all the decisions then why try for any base in fact if only a few viewers will know they got it wrong. But the viewers who already know the facts are not the ones to be concerned about, it's the people who are learning history from this film who will take it as fact and be wrong. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] making a fan
But Rhonda has the same thing cheaper so why not support a fellow list member? :-) http://sapphireandsage.com/alacarte.html Elizabeth - Original Message - From: Lauren Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan Search on fan -- they call their sticks Fan staves. -- Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train. -- Morihei Ueshiba From: Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:15:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan Did you get the maribou fan? That's the only folding fan I found on the web site. Joan At 02:14 PM 9/19/2005, you wrote: I picked up the sticks for the fan I'm making at: www.displaycostume.com the company is here in Seattle but they do website orders and will ship. Good Luck Molly -- Original message -- I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even sure what to call it, but the individual sticks are called ribs, I think. I tried googling fan base fan ribs fan set and a couple of other combinations without any luck. Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very grateful. Thanks, Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] plastic hoopskirt boning has anybody experimented?
OK, as I've been informed (offlist) that most of the readymade hoopskirts have flimsy boning I was wondering if anybody else had used this triple flex plastic boning http://www.venacavadesign.co.uk/Pages/DraftRigilene.htm#Triple. As I plan to buy the materials for a corset from this company anyway I thought I may as well buy hoop boning there too. Their description sounds good but they've got a vested interest in promoting this product over the (steel) alternative. I was hoping that somebody else has experimented with this and could give me an independent review. They are willing to send a sample to experiment with, but the postage (to Australia) would be prohibitively expensive. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it?
- Original Message - From: WickedFrau [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? Whps...way out of my time period. I am glad though that this made me pull out my other POF... Is the shape which you refer to as eliptical truely an oval from front to back? The wedding dress looks much more round. I kind of figured those round ones you can buy would be pretty close to the right shape. What would you have to do in your mind to make them correct? Sg Who is curious because several of us are thinking about moving up a few centuries in costuming! Sg Well I don't know if the original was worn over an oval hoop, it does look round but it looks to me like maybe there was a little more fullness at the back, especially at the top. http://snipurl.com/hxvp is an example of the appearance of extra fullness at the back (although that could be due to the way her shawl is draped, I'm not sure) and although this fashion plate is from 1852 I don't think it's too unreasonable to think maybe one could do something similar for the second half of that decade. If I did buy one of these hoops I would have at least brought in the bottom hoops so it was more of a dome shape and less of a cone shape (see http://snipurl.com/hxve for an example of what a dress looks like worn over one of these, it looks more like a caricature lampooning hoopskirts than something you'd expect to see in real life). I was also planning to reduce the overall size so the bottom hoop was somewhere between 110-120 circumference (I've been told on another of my lists that the diameter of most hoops was 40-60% of the wearer's height) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Planning my first Tudor, need feedback on my plan
or a plausible non-royalty substitution? Any suggestions for a good contrasting or complementing color to use? The Tudors loved gold, but I'm not the biggest fan. Well, as you can see from this portrait http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/blackmary.jpg a plain satin forepart/undersleeves is also acceptable, If you want to incorporate estoiles into the dress you might want to see if you can find some small charms in that shape to decorate the neckline of your kirtle like you see with scallop shells in http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/aragon.jpg The false sleeves would be made of the same good fabric as used for the kirtle, pinned or attached to the kirtle. If I end up doing a shiny or iridescent fabric instead of tapestry, I'm tempted to pleat them, like Lady Guildford's portrait. Overdress: f I plan on using red cotton velvet or velveteen - I know velveteen would be more within my budget, but I'm not sure of the overall look of it yet. Would it work well? I would like for the foldback sleeves to be the same color of the dress, as seen with Lady Guildford, but I don't see many other examples like this until later. Could this also be an acceptable compromise for someone not of royalty? The front of the skirt will be split to show off the good fabric of the kirtle. If I have a train, it will only be a slight one. If you're using velvet for the gown I'd use a brocade to line the sleeves (which shows when you turn them back) like you see in http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/portraitsetc/FitzalanMary.jpg and http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/portraitsetc/Mary1545.jpg as these two, plus the portrait of Jane Seymour are the only portraits showing velvet gowns I've been able to find (and as I can't obtain gold net like Jane Seymour's wearing I've opted for brocade, though I'm still looking for a period looking brocade that will match the colour of my velvet gown). However this portrait of Queen Mary http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/marybrown.jpg might be velvet (it's hard to tell), in which case the sleeves appear to be lined with the same fabric as the gown. Accessories: Jewelry will be simple. Since I don't really like gold, is silver an acceptable substitute? I notice from the Mary Tudor portrait that they didn't see a problem with mixing gold and silver. I probably will use plenty of glass pearls. I will have the two standard necklaces and a girdle, not sure yet about any brooches. I'll work on that after I finish the dresses. A brooch is not absolutely essential, and a sash as a girdle was only just beginning to be old fashioned in the 1530s (if you look at this portrait of Catherine of Aragon http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Aragon,Catalina05.jpg you can just make out what could be the knot of a sash between her hands) My french hood will be of more of a curved design, but not overly fancy. I'm not sure which fabric to use for my crescent, as I've seen fabric used from the overdress, the folded back sleeves, or the forepart/false sleeve. I guess whichever fabric I prefer. This is also a lower priority at this point of the project. The hood could match your dress, but it isn't necessary and I'd be wary of using any colours but black white and red (though there's a miniature of Catherine Howard where it's so encrusted in jewels it looks gold). My French Hood is based on Drea Aleed's instructions but with a 'muffin cap' (also using Drea's instructions but with the front section cut to follow the line of the French hood so only the pleated gold ruffle sticks out) Stockings are an extremely low priority at this point, as I could live without them, and I have some Mary Jane-style shoes that will pass. So, what do you think? I have done so much reading that my head is spinning with details. I don't see a lot of recreation in 1530, moreso in the 1540 range, where there are some changes. I wish I had more non-royal sources as I really don't need to be that high of class and I'd like to know where I can legitimately skimp on the details. I'm just looking for some feedback and corrections as needed because I want to go fabric shopping within the week. -- Elinor Salter Well 1540s is popular because you have more portraits which are more detailed so it's easier, plus the fact that the pointed waistline emphasises the vertical which is often something 16th century costumers want. Once you've got started let us know how it's going and hopefully we'll be able to help some more. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] has anyone used Butterick 4485 (18th century court gown)?
hello to the list, I know we discussed this pattern when it first came out, but I was wondering if anybody has actually looked at it and worked out if it's designed to be worn over the corset (the pictures on the website aren't clear)? If the bodice is cut to be worn over a cone shaped foundation it could be really useful as a base for several time periods. Whilst the skirt may not be to everyone's taste a bodice that's already got the period silhouette right without needing to get rid of the curved princess seams could be a valuable pattern to have, and certainly a much better starting point for beginners than the ones designed to be worn over a bra. Obviously the back seams are in the wrong place for all the periods I can think of but it's still a better starting point than any of the other big 3 patterns. I ask because I was thinking of teaching a class on removing princess seams so people can create an Elizabethan bodice from a commercial pattern, but if this one is already in the right shape I'd probably recommend it as a bodice pattern. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: BUtterick 18th C
- Original Message - From: Mia Dappert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:18 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: BUtterick 18th C I passed on this one, cause the back was not even faintly like any 18th Cent garments I have come into contact with. It did not even meet the Oh it's only $1.99/.99 and I can do something with it. criteria. But my direction is more authentic than costume. I did get the accomanying stays pattern because is WAS correct in shape. If you are looking for a good pattern and more in the authentic line, you would do better with one of the smaller companies. You would even do better enlarging from a book (yes Bjarne, cutting and draping is easy too, but you have skills way beyond my humble talents. All I can make without a pattern is a petticoat!!) I have actualy sized up a pattern from Patterns of Fashion 1, the Polonaise with the back cut en fourreau (I've probably misspelt that but I don't have the book with me to check) for myself (though I did make the mistake of making the shoulders wider when I enlarged it to my measurements) but it took me a few years to work up the courage to do that. I was actually planning on using a commercial pattern for a class aimed at new costumers, I'm considering offering some members of my local SCA group a tutorial on my method of taking a readily available commercial pattern with Princess seams and turning it into a cone shaped 16th century bodice without princess seams (I've tried to explain my method here http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/SiL/Fixing_SiL.html#Bodice but there's nothing like a hands on demonstration). And as Butterick patterns are on sale at the moment I thought this might be a good option. Seems to me I remember hearing rumors that one of the OTHER pattern companies, Simplicity in the Martha McCain/Fashion Historian line was thinking about doing something 18 cent. in the near future. That might solve your availability problems since doesn't Simplicity sell in Australia??. 18c Cent Mia in Charlotte, who was 1890s Mia last weekend. I could wait until Martha McCain does her 18th century patterns but I hoped to do this for any new members we get from the recruitment drive at the beginning of next semester (around the end of Febuary as we're about to go on Summer hollidays here). I thought that if this Butterick pattern already has a cone shaped bodice it's easier to alter that than one designed to be worn over a bra (no eliminating a curve, just eliminating one straight seam) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] has anyone used Butterick 4485 (18th century court gown)?
- Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] has anyone used Butterick 4485 (18th century court gown)? Hi Elizabeth, I know it is hard for you when you cant drape on a dress stand. But why dont you do like this: snip Bjarne, Thanks for the advice, but I was not planning to use this pattern for myself. It's for a class I was planning to teach for new costumers. I'm in the SCA (a medieval and renaissance group) I was going to try to teach some newcomers that there is a middle ground between drafting your own patterns (or buying expensive patterns from a small pattern company) and using a major commercial pattern as it is (which produces the wrong shape). I thought some of them might appreciate something other than the basic tunic that SCA people usually teach newcomers to make (e.g. http://www.sca.org.au/politarchopolis/library/tunic.php or the more period way http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/FirstGarb.html which is becoming more popular all the time) My original plan was to base this class on how to turn Simplicity's version of the costumes from the Movie Shakespeare in Love (I've even written a webpage on it http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/SiL/Fixing_SiL.html) into a more accurate 16th century gown. Then it occoured to me that if I used a pattern with the right basic shape I wouldn't have to modify the bodice as much (though it would obviously still need some changes), given that Butterick has also released an 18th cenutry stays pattern I thought that this bodice might be designed to be worn over those stays instead of modern underwear like all the other major commercial patterns. I will hang onto your advice, for enlarging using drawing software, but I don't have a scanner so for now I'm going to have to do it by hand (I've done it successfully for one polonaise gown from Patterns of Fashion1 and one 1850s corset from Corsets and Crinolines). Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] victorian corset with too short busk
- Original Message - From: Joannah Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:18 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] victorian corset with too short busk Did you look at Farthingales? http://www.farthingales.on.ca/busks.php They have straight busks up to 16 long, for up to CDN$22.49 ( AUS$26.20 ). I also thought that these are an interesting idea ( new from the last time I had a browse through their site ) - http://www.farthingales.on.ca/lacing_bones.php But, yes, Hedgehog Handworks has a really good price. If you will forgive my asking, how long is the front of your corset? ( Just curious/interested. ) Joannah. the front of my corset is 19 inches in total (I chose this pattern from Corsets and Crinolines because it was fairly simple but it was long enough that I could do things like Bustle gowns as well as crinoline fashions) so if I leave 1/2 an inch at either end that leaves me with an 18 busk so 16 isn't long enough (though it's 1 longer than Hedgehog Handworks) and they don't have 1/2 wide spiral steels in pre-cut lengths, and I don't want to have to deal with cutting up the boning myself. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] victorian corset with too short busk
snip I don't know if they are cheap but I have seen corsets where the busk was too short and they looked ugly. They cut a piece of an other busk and taped it together but is is very easy to see. Never had any complaints from my customers, but then you can't see that an extra piece has been added. At least not the way I do it. I have some old spoon busks which are way too short, but work fine when I tape the extra piece on. Suzi Suzi, Can you describe the way you attach an extra busk piece, as it must be different to the method Deredere has seen if one is obvious and the other isn't. I'm assuming you would have to use gaffer tape (AKA duct tape) for the strength and I'm wondering how you would get the requisite strength in the join without creating lumps in the finished corset. Thanks, Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What about a gift exchange picture page?
That sounds like a great idea, I think one of the photo sharing websites might work best as we can allow multiple people to upload their own photos. I've used http://www.myphotoalbum.com/ for the amiperiodornot photos (http://amiperiodornot.myphotoalbum.com/) because it allows voting and comments and it's designed to let a lot of different people upload photos (one of the previous administrators just has to set up an account for them). Perhaps we could set up a h-cost photo album and create IDs for members of this list who ask, that way, rather than having it hosted on one website which only one person has access to everyone could upload their own, and nobody here is paying for the extra bandwidth and one person doesn't get swamped by emails with photo attachments. Elizabeth - Original Message - From: WickedFrau [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] What about a gift exchange picture page? Hi, I was wondering if any of you would be interested in me setting up a webpage with the gift exchangees and their gifts so we can see what everyone got? I can set it up on my site if you like or we can find some external picture site which would allow folks to upload their own. Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] finished sleaves
- Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:41 AM Subject: [h-cost] finished sleaves As sundays usually are quiet here, i dont think you would mind me for showing you the finished sleaves for the yellow dress. They ended up being excactly as i wanted them. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm At the bottom. Bjarne Wow! I can't wait to see the end result. Looking at such beautiful work makes me wish I had the patience for that sort of embroidery, but I can't even do simple blackwork because I get bored halfway through and put it away in a box for months on end. Making a dress is different I can see the results much faster and it's too big to be put in a box and forgotten. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Gown question
- Original Message - From: A J Garden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Gown question Hi, thanks for all the help - after spending more time overnight I've decided to use wine red cotton velveteen as the dress and a different brocade for the sleeves and underskirt. I'm still using Jean Hunnisett - I have all the other patterns mentioned but am at a stage these days of wanting to draft for myself - and I love the style I'm using from Jean's book. I've got lots of handkerchief linen so will be lining with that, and a friend made me a tudor chemise earlier this year. I'll be using a bumroll - I've got a small one from my 18th century gown so I'll see if that works or make another. I already have a very natural bum/hip/roll! I will be making a fine lawn partlet and a neck ruff. Its from experience that I know to have a low neck - even a high necked cotton blouse makes me overheat - I need air on my skin! I hate thick sleeves so will have to think about the style there. Many thanks, Aylwen I'd say the poly/cotton brocade would create about the same heat as the cotton velveteen, but I'm aware of the difficulty of obtaining 100% cotton brocades (I've never seen a 100% cotton fabric with a period motif in any of the fabric shops around here and I've heard it's much the same elsewhere in Australia too) For cool sleeves there's always the ever popular Helena Snakeborg portrait that is so heavily copied by costumers http://tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg in which the sleeves appear to be made of the same fabric as the partlet. Much the same style can be seen in thse portraits of Queen Elizabeth http://tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth22.jpg (the famous Pelican portrait of 1575) http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Elizamin01.jpg (a miniature of 1572) http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Eliza40.jpg (in which the sheer oversleeves are just visible) I'm not sure what you'd do about the embroidery but it would certainly be cool. HTH Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] book recommendations for beginner making an 18th century polonaise
Merry Christmas and Happy New year to everyone, A freind of mine has just gotten engaged (3 days ago) and has decided she wants to base her wedding gown on an 18th century Robe à l' Anglaise (I think her main source of inspiration is Pirates of the Carribean) she doesn't really want an authentic reproduction but she asked me to recommend some books to help her work out how to do it. So far I've suggested Jean Hunnisett's _Period_Costume_for_Stage__Screen_1500-1800_ Janet Arnold's _Patterns_of_Fashion_1_ (1660-1860) As I've used both of these books in the past (although not for this era) but is there another source you would recommend, keeping in mind that she doesn't really want an authentic reproduction and her sewing skills are still fairly basic (I can't help her hands on as she lives in another city but she's got SCA friends there who can help her if her skills aren't up to it). Pattern suggestions are also welcome, I don't know how authentic she wants this dress to be but I'd like to show her that there is an alternative to the butterick patterns with princess seams. Also is there a good collection of images from this period other than www.marquise.de ? I haven't got around to making anything 18th century (yet) so my research on that era has barely advanced past skimming over that section of Patterns of Fashion on my way to another era. thanks Elizabeth P.S. on the topic of holliday gifts, I got Henry V (the version with Kenneth Branagh) and Sense and Sensibility (the version with Emma Thompson) on DVD but nothing specifically for costume making. Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] bosoms was: Have you seen this painting?
- Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] bosoms was: Have you seen this painting? I still consider this conical. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Mary1.jpg http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Mary.jpg http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth5.jpg http://www.tudor-portraits.com/IsabelPortugal.jpg this almost can be tubilar http://www.tudor-portraits.com/TBBodenham.jpg http://www.tudor-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo.jpg I think the point Audrey is trying to make is that although the earlier tudor styles were not entirely cylindrical there was less emphasis on the small waist and large bosom that the later Elizabethan (or 18th Century) styles although much of the cone shaped appearance is an optical illusion caused by things like triangular stomachers and long points. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Reveal your costumes to the world at Am I Period or Not
Good evening all, Many of the costumers out there will already have heard about Am I Period or Not but recently the flow of new photo submissions has slowed to a trickle, so for those who have never heard of it or those who have new photos (or even new outfits) please consider submitting a photo of your work and enjoy the virtual adulation of people all across the globe. Those who have a new outfit for 12th night celebrations remember to take a camera with you and ask somebody to get your photo. If you have a photo of a costume you have made, from any period of history, please consider submitting it to Am I Period Or Not (aka AIPON) http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/. The 16th century costumers still seem to be the most productive set (with more photos submitted than any other era), with the 19th century a close second. But there are so many other styles out there and it would be fabulous if we could see what costumers have been doing in all eras (even ones that never really existed like Lord of the Rings) Please pass this on to anybody you think would be interested, after all it's much quicker and simpler to email a photo to us (see http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/photos.htm for submission rules) than setting up your own webpage (even if you do have your own webpage you can always put photos of your work on AIPON and include a link to your webpage for more info). If you are unfamiliar with the concept here's a brief summary: People send in photos of the historical costumes they've made, the photos are loaded onto a website where people can view them, vote on how period accurate they are and leave comments. While the original site was for pre 1600 costume only The New Am I Period Or Not website covers the fashions of any era you like, from the first civilisations to the day before yesterday (plus imaginary eras). I hope to see a flood of new and interesting photos in response to this email. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Simplicity's new natural form era gown, opinions?
I was just browsing Simplicity's website (I got a free pattern for submitting a sewing tip to their 'idea exchange') and I found that they have a new historic costume pattern, http://www.simplicity.com/dv1_v4.cfm?design=4244 it looks like a bustle or natural form period gown, they may be trying to cash in on The Phantom of the Opera (though it seems a bit late) as their model does look quite a bit like Emmy Rossum (who played the main character, Christine) although they do already have a version of the costume she wears when she does her solo on stage for the rest of the film she wears typical late 1870s to early 1880s outfits. Anyway, onto my point does anybody have an opinion on how authentic this is and whether any inauthentic parts would be fixable? The bodice doesn't look too bad it's got 2 darts at the front and princess seams at the back, it reminds me of a polonaise except for the back drape. It would need fitting to be worn over a corset but otherwise I can't seem to pinpoint a flaw (I admit I don't like the look of the back of the skirt but I don't know if that's because it's inauthentic or I just dislike the style). Then again I've only done a little research into this era, so for those who have more expertise in natural form era outfits what is your opinion? Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor Roses
- Original Message - From: Kahlara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:47 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tudor Roses Found this embroidery pattern while looking for something else. They call it English Rose but it looks like the right thing to me. Hope it helps. http://www.dragonbear.com/cenrose.html Annette M Actually a Tudor rose usually only has 2 layers (one rose on top of another) a better pattern would be the 'Queen's Order of Courtesy' pattern at the bottom of this page http://www.dragonbear.com/ekbadges.html with red and white petals (there is no firm rule about wether the red rose is in front of the white rose or vice versa) with a yellow centre and green leaves. Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
The over sleeve has a fitted upper half with a bell shaped lower half. If you can find Jean Hunnisett's Period Costume for Stage and Screen, 1500-1800 that's probably the most comprehensive resource on constructing a Tudor outfit (http://www.longago.com/bookstore3.html is the only place selling it at a reasonable price that I know of). However, she is a theatrical costumer so she does take some shortcuts. For example, she suggests cutting your skirt as one large rectangle with pleats to create the fashionable cone shape, however virtually all of the surviving 16th century garments and tailor's books suggest a gored skirt with trapezoid shaped pieces. If you can't get your hands on a copy of Jean Hunnisett's book you can find a basic pattern for the outer sleeves here http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tudorcostumes/howtosleeves.html (though you'll have to make up your own variations where the book provides you with several) Jean Hunisett suggests cutting the sleeves on the bias, which does allow for the sleeves to drape down much further (the line marked C on this diagram http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tudorcostumes/oversleevepattern.jpg) because obviously the distance corner to corner is longer than one side. For the undersleeves you'll find a pattern very similar to Jean Hunnisett's here http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tudorcostumes/Bess_page3weddingGowndiary.html I've found the most reliable way to secure my undersleeves is to temporarily hand stitch them to the short sleeves of my kirtle (my dress diary for my current kirtle is here http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/kirtle/kirtle.htm I've found the front lacing shows up as lumps beneath my gown so my next one will have back or maybe side lacing) and then to switch undersleeves I just unpick the stitching (although if I'm wearing the kirtle alone with the fitted lower sleeves I pin them on) Hope that helps Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole | Lady Elizabeth Beaumont Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ - Original Message - From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth My daughter has chosen the portrait of young Princess Elizabeth for her costume. It is the pink one, Flemish School 1546-1547. Can anyone tell me what colors the sleeves and the front panel are? They seem very pink to me. http://www.sapphireandsage.com/necklaces.html I can't tell if it has a round or pointed bodices. What do you call these kind of sleeves. Any suggestions of how to make of pattern for the sleeves? I found several sites that had sleeve variations but none like these. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
- Original Message - From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Thank you for the description. I still wonder how the sleeves are attached. There is no strap showing. Is the pearl necklace in her bodice or is it attached to the edges of a very translarent partlet? One description said the beading trim was attached to the under layer. What under layer? Was it attached to a chemise or smock? I don't see any of it except for the poofs of white. OK the problem here is you're thinking of 2 layers, smock and gown, whereas there would almost certainly have been 3 smock, kirtle (which does the bust supporting work of a corset) and gown. The trim you see around the neckline would be attached to the kirtle and then the gown's neckline is cut slightly larger to show off the kirtle's bejewelled neckline. I seriously doubt that there is any partlet involved, if you look at other portraits from the same era http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/tudor/index.html it becomes much clearer that it's a necklace. Also if you look carefully at her wrist you can see that her cuff is gathered into a band, this, along with the perfect appearance of all the puffs leads me to think that they are actually faux puffs rather than incredibly huge chemise sleeves (as they would have to be to fill sleeves that large) I found a pdf of the costume by Nina . It has a white chemise with blackwork on it as suggested undergarments. Is this right? I don't know. Since she does so much research and garb work, I assume she knows what she is talking about in this portrait. It does look like there's some very simple blackwork (possibly blanket stitch) around the neckline but I can't see any evidence for that on the cuffs. Of course if you're not making a slavish reproduction of the portrait blackwork was very popular at this time and it would be equally accurate to have blackwork cuffs. Is she wearing earrings or is the trim on her hood? I found the perfect cloth that is the same color and pattern in the portrait. That was a big start on the costume. I don't know if i can find gfabric for the front and undersleeves. I guess I could embroider it myself. I'd rather not have to do that much work by hand. snip It's the trim on her hood, you can see how it forms part of the pattern of the jewels which run all the way around the French Hood. On the topic of French hoods, have a look at Ninya Mikhaila's theory on French hood construction http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/frenchhood.html, I follow a similar plan, but I attach the veil to the crescent piece and by gathering a circle of fabric onto the under cap I make it into a caul. See Sarah Goodman's page http://modehistorique.com/elizabethan/coif.html for the evidence that convinced me that a cauls were worn underneath French Hoods. For the undersleeves if you're making an exact reproduction of the portrait it's going to be hard to find the right fabric (though I did once find a chenille voided velvet that looked close) I think you may have to cope with a flat brocade. If it makes you feel any better to find out that a professional costumer had to make the same compromise look at http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/eliztower.html Let me know if you have any more questions. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
- Original Message - From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth I learned how to make the voided velvet in school so I can reproduce the same looking fabric for the under sleeve and skirt front. I found a deep pile velvet to use but haven't bought it yet. So you think that the whole sleeve unit was connected since the chemise does not go all the way down to the wrist? I didn't see any ruff at the wrist, but I don't have a detail of that more than a general whole portrait. I can see some of the details but not too much. It gets fuzzy when I zoom in too close. I think I can make the costume with little problem. I plan to take my time to do it right. No the white you see at her wrist is her chemise have a look at http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/kideliz.jpg it's a much clearer picture than the one you originally posted. If you look at her left wrist you can see that the ruffle of fabric which drapes over her hand is slightly gathered into a close fitting band at the wrist, that's the cuff (not Ruff) I was talking about and that's the end of the chemise sleeves. The pieces of white fabric you see puffing out through slashes in the velvet undersleeves are not actually part of the chemise sleeves, instead they are pieces of the same fabric as the chemise (it would have been linen in the original) and sewn to the inside of the velvet undersleeves so they poke out through the slashes. The velvet undersleeves stop just above the elbow and I find whip stitching them onto a short sleeved kirtle (the middle layer between the chemise and the gown) the best way of securing them, pins also hold them on well but it requires a second person to do that once you're wearing it, as I usually have to dress myself I sew mine on. HTH Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole | Lady Elizabeth Beaumont Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Martha to Mia - I needed that!
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 5:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Martha to Mia - I needed that! I'm waiting for these patterns too! My main area of interest is Elizabethan, but I've always wanted an 18th century outfit, so a commercial pattern would be wonderful. And the companion piece sounds great too! Tea Rose snip Me too! I primarily do Tudor (you wouldn't consider following 18th century with 16th century would you? there might be a big enough market in the Ren faires and SCA) but I'm rather a timeperiod magpie (ooh look pretty dresses) so I jump periods when I get the opportunity but I'm hopeless at drafting (partly because I have trouble getting somebody to do accurate measurements for me) or enlarging patterns (my attempt at enlarging a pattern from 'Patterns of Fashion 1' ended up with shoulders designed for a weightlifter) so commercial patterns are a wonderful thing to my mind, and something I can pick up from my local fabric shop for $7-8 if they are on special is something I can afford compared to buying small company patterns which are 2-3 times the price plus international postage. Keep up the wonderful work and I hope to see something wonderful in the pattern catalogues soon. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re:patterns
snip Notice Simplicity hedged their bets on that bustle dress by marketing it as a wedding dress--many people get married, some more than once. Sewing is a hobby these days, not a need, for most people. Many people who could buy an $8 blouse at Wal-Mart, just want something much better quality and more stylish--and they enjoy sewing. Fran Lavolta Press Books of Historic Patterns http://www.lavoltapress.com snip Marketing patterns to brides is something you see from several of their historical patterns, if you look in the printed catalogue at the fabric shop you'll notice that if the dress in the photo is not already white they often have an artist's sketch of it in white with a veil. The ones I particularly remember are the 'Shakespeare in love' gown and Martha's two day dresses with pagoda sleeves. Because a wedding dress is the garment a woman is most likely to have custom made and be willing to spend a lot of money on it makes sense that a pattern company would try to get as big a share of that market as possible. In reality I wouldn't be surprised if the historical themed weddings was a bigger market than re-enactors. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
snip As far as I know the kirtle from this period does not have short sleeves but this doesn't mean there wasn't some with short sleeves. Does your source for short sleeve kirtles state where one can find the it? I would be interested. Hope all this makes sense. De Recovering from bronchitis so brain not quite pass first gear. I'm probably the one who gave her the idea of a short sleeved kirtle http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/kirtle/kirtle.htm I don't have direct evidence of short sleeved kirtles worn with this gown. It's really conjecture based on some early 16th century and late 15th century pictures of working women with short sleeved kirtles (mainly the Da Costa Hours here http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/) and the fact that it's the most effective way of attaching the false sleeves that I have tried so far. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming other period tack
While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this fashion plate http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/1859septharpers.jpg from 1859. I was under the impression that women didn't wear hoops or skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable at the time) when they were riding (as hoops would stand out from the horse's side giving those below a view straight up your skirt and bustles or paniers would get in the way of you sitting on the horse), but it seems difficult to believe there isn't a crinoline under that skirt. Does anybody have an explanation for why she would wear a crinoline with her riding costume? All I can think of is that maybe it's a way to use up the extra length in the riding habit, but the 2 big problems with that are A. all the fullness is on one side and B. it would mean putting a crinoline on underneath your skirts in public. And I'm pretty sure Victorian riding habits were only worn when you planned to be actually riding, so no chance of having one for show and one for actually getting on a horse. I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to know. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tea towels
The only one I know of is the reproduction medieval table linens carried by Historic Enterprises http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_listc=113 But wouldn't most tea towels have been fairly plain and functional, possibly even rags (when your linen underwear wears out in one place you can cut down the rest of the smock/shirt to make something useful, like a tea towel). Unless you can think of a context in which they would be seen by guests (as if you could afford to have an ornamental tea towel your guests wouldn't see your kitchen) Elizabeth - Original Message - From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile linen or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep postingthis!)
To save re-posting this info is there any way we can add the archives address to the info that's attached to the bottom of every email? Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves
- Original Message - From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Does anyone have a draft of the undersleeves for the pink/orange Princess Elizabeth dress. I've search the Internet and asked everyone I can find. I have the over sleeve but not the under sleeve that is rounded shape. Becky ___ Try this pattern http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/sleevepattern.jpg it's almost the same as Jean Hunnisett's pattern except that instead of the line from point F to point F going straight across there is an upward curve on the outside edges which means that it is longer over the outside of your elbow than the inside, giving you room to move but still preventing a gap between your undersleeve and your outer sleeve. HTH Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets Hi all, I have a question for those who use cable ties in their corsets. I'm making my first 18th-century corset, and it turns out that because some of the channels run diagonally and the bank is so high, my cable ties aren't long enough. So, I'm wondering, will it really be that bad if the bones aren't continuous? I tried tying two bones together, but they made a lump that looked like it might be uncomfortable. Should I go and buy enough ridgeline to fill in the long channels? Thanks! Tea Rose I've had some luck with taping cable ties together for extra length but I can only get my hands on the skinny ones (I've found two skinny cable ties per channel is sufficient in a fully boned corset [i.e. no gaps between the bones] and I'm about a size 18-20 and a DD cup so it's not like there's nothing to hold in) so I had 3 layers with the joins at different places like bricks in a wall. Of course if you use tape that would probably mean you couldn't wash it, but you really shouldn't need to wash a corset anyway. This diagram is intended to show what the bones look like from the side _ ___ __ __ ___ _ HTH Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves
I found another diagram of an undersleeve pattern (I knew I'd seen it somewhere) http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tudorcostumes/Bess_page3weddingGowndiary.html this is essentially the same as Jean Hunnisett's pattern, although if you're going to imitate Princess Elizabeth's sleeves you might want to make it larger and add some slashes. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Neat corset lacing assistant
I was looking at this website to find out the price of custom made corsets, as I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to alter the corset pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset in Corsets and Crinolines, the bust is way too big I'm on my third round of alterations to reduce it) I can't afford to buy a corset, but I came across this nifty little tool for preventing the corset laces from slipping when you're lacing it up http://romantasyweb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PRODStore_Code=RProduct_Code=lstCategory_Code=HA They are selling it but it's really simple and could easily be reproduced at home even if you don't have much in the way of tools. All you'd really need is 2 pieces of dowel with holes drilled for the cords and the hook. If you know somebody who does woodwork you could probably make this out of their scraps. This wouldn't work as well for pre 19th century corsets as they have a lace that runs from the top and ends at the waist so you don't have a loop, but it would certainly save some time (I knot the end of my laces to avoid slipping while I'm tightening but having the tension constantly held would save the time of making the knot and then undoing it to re-knot it at the new tension) Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] new McCall's bonnet pattern
while I was looking for high waisted bodices with darts, (as I'm running a class on removing the darts from commercial patterns for early 16th century Italian clothing) I found this new pattern http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M5129.htm?tab=costumespage=1 for couple of variations on the theme of mid 19th century bonnets. To me it looks like the top row styles with the full brim could work well for late 1840s to early 1850s but their cut away style looks all wrong, I think it's because it's just too big, as when they trimmed the brim back so it didn't act like blinkers on a horse the bonnet became much smaller and closer to the face, but instead of modifying the overall line of the bonnet McCall's has tried to make one pattern do double duty. Does anybody else have opinions on weather this could be adapted to a mid to late 1850s bonnet? As nobody seems to sell that style (even if I could afford a readymade bonnet) all I see on the web is 1860s spoon bonnets for the ACW crowd. Elizabeth (who should be concentrating on SCA period clothing for an upcoming event over the Easter weekend rather than looking at 19th century stuff) Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to alter the corset pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset in Corsets and Crinolines, the bust is way too big I'm on my third round of alterations to reduce it) Lookyou probably just need to step back a littledo something else for a bit... then come back to it. snip that's exactly what I'm doing actually as I need more SCA garb for an event coming up over the Easter long weekend I'm making a boned Tudor kirtle and I'm doing a lot of hand finishing so I can enter it into a competition. After that I'll probably go back to my Victorian as I want to have the outfit that will go over it ready by July for a Dickensian Ball. I think that one last alteration should reduce the bust enough to fit, but it will involve unpicking a seam that I've already sewn several times. I may try another corset pattern later, but I've bought the boning cut to length for this pattern and it wouldn't work for a different pattern. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies.
- Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. snip What about this portrait http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/DevereuxSisters.JPG you can find a brief biography of the subjects at http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/DEVEREUX.htm it's dated 1581, so it's a little outside your time period but it's all I could find maybe they were behind the fashion? Though with Lettice Knollys as their mother I'd doubt it. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide
I'd add Taffeta to the list of silk fabrics and add a warning that most of the time if you see satin, taffeta, velvet etc. in your local fabric shop they aren't actually silk and you must check the labels. Elizabeth - Original Message - From: Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:23 AM Subject: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Hey all, I have a friend who is not allowed to go to the fabric store without a keeper. :D She knows nothing about fabrics and likes shiny bright SHINY fabrics, which are rarely a natural fiber. So with her in mind, I am working on a quick guide that she, and others, can print out. I am sure I am leaving out important information so if you could check it out and let me know, I'd greatly appreciate it. The intended audience is re-enactors without much experience with fabrics or sewing. http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! Althea Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 27/03/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] GFD related question - tracing final pieces onto paper
Hi everyone, I'm helping a friend to fit an early 16th century Venetian bodice (what's often referred to as the 'Italian ren' style) and I want it to support her bust without a bra so I'm basically working from Robin's worksheets to get an idea of how to do that (though it's obviously somewhat different to suit the different style of bodice). My question is about the point after the lining is fitted and you've now got a shape you can trace to cut a second layer, or even a new bodice. If you're tracing that shape onto a piece of paper (so you don't have to go through the fitting process again next time) do you have to wait a while for the fabric to shrink back into it's normal cold shape or can you trace the pieces as soon as you take it off? I also thought that maybe you need to take it a step further and put it through the wash (after finishing the edges of course) to get it back to it's normal size. I've made this style of bodice for myself but I forgot to trace my final pieces onto a paper pattern to re-use them later so this wasn't an issue. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] GFD related question - tracing final pieces onto paper
snip I can't help you there, as I never transfer to paper. I keep the original linen pieces. When I use them as a template, I iron them out and straighten out the grain lines, and match them to the grain lines on the new fabric. snip --Robin Gee, that was fast. But if you're using the pieces that you've fitted as the lining of your final dress then you've just lost your pattern and you've got to start the fitting process again from scratch next time you want to recreate that dress. Re-doing it from scratch makes sense from a medieval point of view when you've got a household/neighbourhood full of women who all know how to sew and how to do this sort of fitting (especially given the cost of paper). But in a modern re-enactor's world where it's often hard to find somebody who knows how to sew is willing to try this unfamiliar technique it makes sense to have something that is almost right and requires only the sort of minor fitting that you can get a non-sewer or a modern only sewer to do for you while you give them instructions. Or are you suggesting that you keep the original pieces permanently instead of using them as a lining? I'll pass on your ideas on ironing the pieces to straighten out the grain lines. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Jean Hunnisett Dress
- Original Message - From: Jayne Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Jean Hunnisett Dress Hi! I would like to make the 1569 Elizabethan dress (or something near as possible!) that is illustrated on page 63 (the one in the middle of the group) of 'Patterns for Women's Dress 1500-1800 for my nearly four year daughter. Yes, I'm being very ambitious here! The thing is, how would scale the pattern (on page 68 onwards) to fit her? Am I being a bit too ambitious?! All the best! Jayne Would that be the pattern based on this portrait http://tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg ? The best way might be to take a pattern that's fitted to her measurements and then re-draw some of the seams to make it look like the pattern you're trying to recreate. Look through the regular pattern catalogues for something with a fairly fitted bodice, a waist seam, and a high neckline (so it's easy to cut down to the square neckline of the mid 16th century) then trace this pattern onto tissue paper and copy the lines you see in the book onto your full sized pattern. Fortunately you don't have to deal with removing darts/princess seams as people who try to do this with adult patterns do. The other option would be to copy it onto an overhead transparency and blow it up using an overhead projector, then you just pick one measurement (e.g. the centre front) blow it up to that size trace off the pattern and adjust the rest of the pattern to match her measurements (you'll almost certainly need to reduce the difference between the bust and the waist for a child) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Picture of Queen Mary I
snip This is a small panel portrait by an anonymous artist of the English school held at the Denver Art Museum in the Berger Collection. A somewhat larger version can be found here: http://www.bridgeman.co.uk/search/view_image2.asp?image_id=119972 This link will take you directly to the image in the museum collection: http://www.bergercollection.org/artwork_detail.php?i=37 You can enlarge it, but the resolution is very fuzzy. Good luck, -Helen/Aidan Thanks for that, especially the second one (I didn't get any problems with fuzziness, though you've got to give it a few moments to clear up when you zoom) That French hood is certainly interesting, if you zoom in to the area at the bottom of her ear you can see that the black band at the front is laid over an 'ordinary' French Hood coz you can just see the end of her jewelled blimmet sticking out from the bottom plus you can also see a white band going underneath her jaw. The other interesting point is I think the back blimmet might curve under at the back of her neck, which makes me wonder how far it extends towards the back of her neck and whether perhaps it helps to keep it on and maybe it extends all the way across. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] curtains
- Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 2:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] curtains Am I the only one who goes shopping for new curtains thinking, And when I get tired of these I can use them for costumes! ? LOL! Dawn but it's really hard to get curtains without rubber backing (unless you make them yourself but that's time you could be spending on garb) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 16th century term for cartridge pleats
Hiya everyone, I just read a bit of info that says the term cartridge pleats has it's roots in the late 19th century so what is the correct term for the 16th century. I know it was gauging in the mid 19th century but do we have a record of what it was called prior to that? Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
snip One of the best examples of this is perhaps the best King Arthur movie ever made, the immortal Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The more you know about Arthurian legend and medieval history, the funnier it gets--although it's pretty funny even without a jot of knowledge about either. Susan Very true, if anybody wants a good scholarly look at medieval films have a look at this book: Aberth, John. _A_Knight_at_the_Movies:_Medieval_History_on_Film. Routledge New York. 2003. ISBN 0-415-93885-6 the example he gives of a good historical movie is in fact Monty Python and the Holy Grail and he points out just how relevant the jokes are. I'm currently doing a course on History on Film (not history of film but looking at the way history is portrayed in movies). Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films Robin wrote, (Sample question: How can I be sure that such-and-so-image of the Madonna and Child isn't really Mary Magdalen and her baby by Jesus?) Sample answer - what difference does it make when you're discussing the clothing? I'm guessing your lecture is to help sort out the real clothing of the time period vs. the icons or identifiers of the saints that were not real clothes. Once I figured that out I stopped carrying around the dish of eyeballs at SCA events. Ah, you see my sample answer would have been 'because it pre-dates Dan Brown and in the Medieval period you could have been killed for saying what he said' several schisms were eradicated (usually by violent means) for saying much less controversial things than Jesus had sex with Mary Magdalene. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movies-things that make you cringe!
- Original Message - From: kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] Movies-things that make you cringe! but because of my DH the entire family is known to yell at the screen in any movie historical or modern PICK UP THE AMMO/WEAPON, as the good guy runs around ect... Our favourite thing to make us yell at the screen...Close the damn door! When the actor walks intoa building and leaves to door open, to be closed miraculously by someone else! snip It's not just costumers/historians who tell fictional characters when they're wrong, my Mum's a nurse and you can't get through any sort of medical drama without learning where they have taken liberties with the facts. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
snip Along these lines, I have something to get off my chest: I don't think the Mona Lisa is really all that great a painting! Whew. There. I feel much better now. -E House (Also, eyebrowlessness is a huge pet peeve of mine.) Well I believe Leonardo da Vinci would agree with you, he never was satisfied with it and X-rays have shown 4 complete re-drafts of the painting. But he seems to have had a love-hate relationship with the painting because he couldn't get it right. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor Jewellery
- Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Jewellery There is someone on this list who makes reproduction Tudor jewellery - I thought I had it book marked but I can't find it. Can anyone help please? Suzi (who seems to have mislaid a lot of things this week!) I'm guessing you mean Sapphire and Sage http://www.sapphireandsage.com/index.html I've actually just ordered a brooch from her, it's a custom piece based on the portrait of Princess Elizabeth http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/kideliz.jpg and it's not in the catalogue on the website yet (and presumably won't be until it's finished) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor Jewellery
snip Talia Didn't get the original mail. I am basically looking for a gold (look) chain for my husband to wear to a one-off SCA event when we are in the States. I have the mandatory pearls, and some rings, but nothing for him. As his costume -f it ever gets made - is from my stash, I can afford a repro chain, possibly, but not the real thing. Just a note, you may get hassled if your Husband wears a plain gold chain to an SCA event, in the SCA that is insignia reserved for Knights. Most people won't be that rude but you're likely to get somebody come up and point out the rules to you, and if you're wearing good quality clothes they may assume you're an established member and therefore should know better. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] On the topic of Simplicity patterns (was Re: Simplicity 4156 - Victorian)
when I had a look at Simplicity's website I noticed that they have just discontinued Simplicity 8881(the Shakespeare in Love pattern) which is IMO the best big 3 pattern out there for Elizabethan, so if you're interested in a cheap farthingale and bumroll pattern as well as a good sleeve pattern (with the seam in the right place down the back of the arm) and a bodice pattern that is similar in shape to Eleanora di Toledo's gown (in Patterns of Fashion) once you remove the princess seams. Snap up a copy or several (think about newcomers to your group who might need such a pattern in the future) when your local fabric shop updates it's pattern catalogues and gets rid of the discontinued patterns. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Surviving Garments Database
snip Check it out at: http://www.heatherrosejones.com/survivinggarments/index.html This is a *wonderful* idea. I will need more time to explore it and see what I can add. You should, in my opinion, be canonized for taking this task on. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Well as you need to be dead to be canonized I don't think we want that any time soon ;-) after all if Heather was a candidate for sainthood she couldn't update this site (unless she chose that as one of her miracles :-) Just kidding, we'd also miss your presence on the list. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Alternatives To Elizabethan Epaulettes
- Original Message - From: Jayne Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 6:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] Alternatives To Elizabethan Epaulettes Hi! Can anyone suggest an alternative to the epaulettes on the 1569 Jean Hunnisett dress? I have managed to make (if only in an old sheet!) a four to five year old size bodice of this dress, though I did end up adapting a Simplicity pattern. I have spent the last three days doing a pattern for the epaulettes, and making three sets, without success. Any help will be much appreciated! All The Best! Jayne If you aren't too committed to the idea of epaulettes the simplest alternative would probably be tabs which are little strips of fabric either with both ends sewn into the shoulder seam (and the fold sticking out) or about half the length and one end hangs free (the outer edge can be rounded or left square) tabs generally stick out about an inch from your shoulder IIRC this is the shoulder treatment on the little girl's dress in Patterns of Fashion. Otherwise you can make a shoulder roll using these instructions http://web.archive.org/web/20050209184231/www.saragrace.net/3A_SHLDR_ROLL_by_sg.htm (the original site has disappeared but fortunately it's still available via web archive) and you can try various ways of decorating it such as faked puffs. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] need to change email address please
Follow the link at the bottom of every email you get from this list to make those sort of changes. As yesterday was the first of the month you will have recieved an email yesterday with the subject 'mail.indra.com mailing list memberships reminder' you'll need the password in that email to log in and make changes. Elizabeth - Original Message - From: Debra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:20 AM Subject: [h-cost] need to change email address please My current email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] I need to change mailings to my new address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! I really enjoy the exchange of ideas on this site. Debra ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Short sleeves
- Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Short sleeves On Mon, 1 May 2006, Melanie Schuessler wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this is brought up every year when it becomes warmer. I'm trying to remember if there were some images in some of the Book of Hours of women with mid length sleeves on women. http://www.folkstory.com/images/june.jpg From the Tres Riches Heures of the Duc de Berry snip There was indeed a short-sleeved underdress style in the 15th c. that you see occasionally worn over a chemise with no overlayer. The women doing fieldwork in the TRH that Melanie points out are wearing something similar to this, but I have some hesitation about this particular picture because of the class level depicted in this dress. There are a reasonable number of images of fieldworkers, and this is the only one I've seen in which they are wearing fitted short-sleeved dresses. I suspect that they have been idealized for the purposes of creating an idyllic peasant scene for the Duke's book. Actual peasants seem more commonly to be dressed as shown elsewhere in that manuscript -- with looser gowns, and long sleeves. snip --Robin There's also the early 16th century book of hours by Simon Bening which shows a very similar style of dress, which you can see here http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/ (the second half of the page the first half has the Tres Riches Heures) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] corded petticoats
Hi everyone, I'm considering making a corded petticoat to wear under my Tudor (1530s-1540s) gowns but I've got a cotton velvet gown I'd like to wear over it and I'm concerned that a corded petticoat won't support the weight of about 3-4m of velvet. If anybody has tried wearing a velvet skirt over a corded petticoat how well did it stand up to the weight? Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Silk Taffeta from 'Silk Connection' what quality is it (X post)
Sorry to those who get this message twice but I wanted to catch as many people as possible. Has anybody ordered the 'Spun Silk Taffeta' from Silk Connection? http://www.silkconnection.com/products/fabric/silk/taffeta/ it's a really good price (even if it is plain white) but I'm concerned by the fact that they describe it as Spun, because to me Spun silk is lesser quality stuff like Dupioni with slubs (as opposed to reeled silk which is smooth). The really good price reinforces the thought that maybe it's lesser quality. If you have ordered any Taffeta from them (or you've ordered their swatch set) what sort of quality is it? If there are slubs how frequent are they, could you cut around them if you were careful about where you put your pattern pieces? Thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Visit 'Am I Period or Not' to submit your photos and critique others.
Good evening all, Many of the costumers out there will already have heard about 'Am I Period or Not' (or AIPON for short) but recently the flow of new photo submissions has slowed to a trickle (we've had one new photo in the last three months), so for those who have never heard of it or those who have new outfits (or new photos of old outfits) please consider submitting a photo of your work and enjoy the virtual adulation of people all across the globe. The re-enactment season is starting up soon in the Northern Hemisphere so if you've made something new over the winter send us a photo while it's still pristine so in a few years time you can show people how good it used to look before it got dragged through the mud, torn, mended, mysteriously stained etc. ;-) If you have a photo of a costume you have made, from any period of history, please submit it to 'Am I Period Or Not' http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ . The 16th century costumers still seem to be the most productive set (with more photos submitted than any other era), with the 19th century a close second. But there are so many other styles out there and it would be fabulous if we could see what costumers have been doing in all eras (even ones that never really existed like Lord of the Rings). Our Dark Ages and Byzantine section remains sadly empty, but I know there are a lot of Viking costumers who do some spectacular work (of course the section is not just for Vikings but Viking history is very popular with re-enactors). Please pass this on to anybody you think would be interested, after all it's much quicker and simpler to email a photo to us (see http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/photos.htm for submission rules) than setting up your own webpage (even if you do have your own webpage you can always put photos of your work on AIPON and include a link to your webpage to give people the full story). If you are unfamiliar with the concept here's a brief summary: People send in photos of the historical costumes they've made, the photos are loaded onto a website where people can view them, vote on how period accurate they are (or in the case of fantasy creations how creative or accurate to what they are recreating) and leave comments. While the original site (run by Kirrily Roberts a few years ago) was for pre 1600 costume only The New Am I Period Or Not website covers the fashions of any era you like, from the first civilisations to the day before yesterday (plus imaginary eras). The comments on the website are monitored and any offensive content will be removed as soon as we (the moderating team) are aware of it, we can't guarantee that such comments won't be posted but we can guarantee that we will do our best to keep on top of it and remove comments as soon as possible. I hope to see a flood of new and interesting photos in response to this email. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Skirt Questions
- Original Message - From: Jayne Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] Skirt Questions Hi! I'm back with more questions! I was planning to make my daughters 1569 gown in black velvet, only to have a concern with the weight of the skirt (I'm putting in a forepart, rather than have a full petticoat) when I got home from purchasing the velvet. Would it be alright to do the bodice in the velvet, and the skirt in a black wool blend? Also, how much ease do I put into the waistband - her waist size is 20 and a half inches? I'm doing separate pieces to maximise the wear she will get out of it. Many Thanks Jayne PS I hope to download the photos of the bodice over the weekend. In general I think waistbands are more trouble than they are worth for 16th century gowns and for a little girl with no hips my recommendation to attach the bodice and skirt is doubly strong. It's much easier to suspend a garment from a child's shoulders than their waist. If you do make a waistband you may have to resort to elastic to keep the balance between comfortable and not falling down. I haven't seen evidence for mismatched bodices and skirts in England before the advent of the wheel farthingale (and even those are vanishingly rare) so I'd suggest using the velvet and following Michaela's advice on cutting down on the fabric you use. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1850s ballgown a lace berthe or fichu
hello to the Victorian costumer's on the list (and my apologies to those who have already received this message from the reenactment ladies list), I've got a costume ball coming up in a couple of weeks and I'm wearing a very plain 1840s-50s style ballgown (it's a modern formal dress as I still haven't finished my 19th century corset so there's no point in constructing anything more authentic to go over the top) it has absolutely no decoration so I thought that I would dress it up with either a lace berthe like the woman on the right in this fashion plate http://formetoknow.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?full=1set_albumName=album01id=1853_Day_Evening_and_Bridal_Wear_L_iris28 (if that breaks up try http://snipurl.com/r8kw ) or a fichu like this 1859 'Marie Antoinette Fichu' http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/godey/images/s5901068.jpg (the pattern is here http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/godey/images/s5901069.jpg ). So does anybody know of a good resource on what lace looked like in this period preferably online? My original thought for recreating the lace berthe (which I would prefer as the bodice point is much more early 1850s than late 1850s) was to buy an embroidered sheer lace like the first 2 on this page http://www.trimfabric.com/sheer-lace-3.html and sew it onto a piece of organza so I've got one straight and one scalloped edge or an embroidered net lace like these http://www.trimfabric.com/embroidered-lace-3.html sewn onto tulle (the soft type used for bridal veils rather than the aggressive type used on modern bridal hoopskirts) my favourite at the moment is probably http://www.trimfabric.com/lt-80.html as my dress is dark purple and I like the idea of pink and purple but I can see possible problems matching the shade, so I'd probably be better off sticking with white. Other ideas on how to dress up a plain dress without any extra dress fabric are welcome but I've got time (I've got one week in which I can work solidly on this project after I've handed in my last essay for this term) and budget constraints. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1850s ballgown a lace berthe or fichu
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 3:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1850s ballgown a lace berthe or fichu The fichu isn't very ball gown to me. A bertha would be more formal I think. Actually I have only seen fichus used with ballgowns in the 1850s (I know they were used to fill in necklines in earlier decades but what Godeys is calling a fichu in 1859 sits off the shoulder and therefore wouldn't fill in a neckline). http://rawimages.myphotoalbum.com/f/fo/for/form/forme/formetoknow/albums/album01/1859_evening_wear.jpg this is from the same year as the pattern I mentioned and it looks like it's the same shape with different decoration http://rawimages.myphotoalbum.com/f/fo/for/form/forme/formetoknow/albums/album01/1855_Evening_Dresses_Petit_Courier_Des_Dames2.jpg this one shows a fichu that matches the gown, so it's probably doesn't count as it wouldn't work well with other gowns http://rawimages.myphotoalbum.com/f/fo/for/form/forme/formetoknow/albums/album01/1855_Evening_dress_Dame_Tidende92.jpg and this one shows 2 fichus which are a rather different shape to the pattern in Godeys. I made an entire Ball gown out of Cafe curtain fabric I bought by the pound at a mill outlet. The stuff was only like 18 or 20 wide and I cut the hem off...which made it look very curtain-like...instead cutting around the lace pattern just above the straight hem...which made it scalloped. Yes it was 100% polyester but it looked great! So I'd say hit the curtain department of your local mill outlet and see what's lacy. You could even get enough to sew some tiers on the skirt maybe. But before I can buy anything I need to know what I'm looking for so I've got to find a way to identify what sort of patterns would be used in mid 19th century lace. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] When the fabric shop employee asks So what are you making with that?
taken from SCA-Garb (at) yahoogroups.com (I mentioned this at AS the other night and as people asked for a copy here it is) Responses to the question at the fabric shop So what are you making? (only to be used if those serving you are rude or make it obvious that they are uninterested and only asking because management tells them they have to, or they know you and will understand that you're joking) Posted with permission On Sat Apr 8, 2006 7:25 am ciorstan wrote So far the answers have been one of these: I'm a compulsive fabric hoarder and this is to add to my collection. Do you have any referrals for a 12-Step Program for fabricaholics? I dunno. I'm going to pet it for a while and see if it purrs. Something. I don't know yet. The fabric voices aren't speaking to me right now. Not sure yet, but I intend to take this home and roll and shed all over it so my cats know it's MINE. ciorstan Sat Apr 8, 2006 7:40 pm Laurnesa responded: What are you going to do with this? Me (happily) I'm going to HAVE it! OR I'm going to take it home and pet it and play with it and love it and I will call it George The caveat being that they know me at the one I frequent, as I spent about six months working in the other store that used to be in town, they like me, and they know darn well that it's a costume. Laurensa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] When the fabric shop employee asks So what are youmaking with ...
- Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] When the fabric shop employee asks So what are youmaking with ... As a part-time employee of Jo-anns, I know they tell us to ask customers what they are making but I've never seen any salesperson at my store ask rudely or be rude at all with a customer. I usually don't ask the question unless I'm genuinely interested in what the customer is making, which I often am, unless it's obvious she is into quilting, since I have no interest in that.I see no reason for the customer to act rudely to me when I ask but sometimes they do anyhow. Curt, sarcastic comebacks are not called for in my opinion.Why do salespeople have to be treated as if they are just cogs in the corporate machine (even though I feel that way often)? Sylrog like I said only use such answers if they are being rude enough to make it blatantly obvious that they are not interested (e.g. instead of standing there and paying attention to you while you answer their question turning away and doing something else or [something I've only encountered once] actually starting a conversation with another employee before you've finished answering) because if they are being rude a bit of a shock might make them aware of their own behaviour and perhaps make them less rude to the next customer. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Scientific explaination of my addiction
- Original Message - From: REBECCA BURCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 4:59 AM Subject: [h-cost] Scientific explaination of my addiction snip Sound tests have also revealed that these fabrics emit a very high-pitched sound, heard only by a select few, a breed of women known as quilters. snip I think we need to extend this theory, obviously different fabrics are emitting different frequencies and each sewer is sensitive to different frequencies, you see the quilting cottons have never spoken to me but brocades and silks frequently do. Some become quilters because they are sensitive to the frequency emitted by quilting cottons while others become costumers because silk cries out to them piteously. Then there are the poor souls who can hear the sound of all types of fabric and they do quilting, historic costuming, mundane sewing and can't possibly leave a fabric shop without something because one of their addictions will catch them. :-) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1844 Corset Again-Busk Questions
- Original Message - From: Anne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: H-Costume List Post h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:41 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1844 Corset Again-Busk Questions Hello all! I am glad to see some discussion going again. To add to it I am still (very slowly) working on this corset. My next question for those who have made it before is about the busk. Based on the recent discussion of the split busk being invented in 1853, it seems I should use a wooden busk for this transitional corset. However, given the curve along CF, how is that going to work? Following the seam line exactly, the corset front is quite straight until just below the waist, where it suddenly curves inward ending just above my pubic bone (I hope that makes sense). Do you suppose you need a specially made curved busk? Can you short cut around this and either have the busk end before the lower curve or straighten out the seam line? Obviously that is going to change the line of the corset. The pattern indicates the busk runs entirely top to bottom--16.5 inches on me. I am concerned that if I get a busk that long that I am going to have it poking me in the pubic bone when I sit down. I already have this problem on my existing 1830s corset when I bend over to tie my shoe or cook. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated and thanks in advance! Anne -- Anne Dealy adelaideatgenevahistoricalsociety.com (be sure to change at to @) OK I know I'm replying to this a month late (but I just found some new info), but if it's the pattern I'm thinking of, http://www.originals-by-kay.com/corsetry/history/1844cors.GIF which is also reproduced in Corsets and Crinolines then the curve at the bottom is designed to make the busk act like the later 1870s-80s spoon busk. I was just reading Jean Hunisett's 'Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1800-1909' and she recommends taking a tuck on either side of the bottom of a straight busk to simulate the shaping of a spoon busk. You can change the shape of the centre front, but (depending on your figure size and shape) you might actually appreciate the spoon busk effect, I've almost finished fitting my mockup of this corset, I straightened out the centre front line but I'm actually considering changing it back to the original shape now I know what it does. As for the length of the busk being too much, there are 2 dots at the bottom of the pattern illustration which makes me think maybe they were eyelet holes to keep the bottom section of the corset together, suggesting to me that the busk doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the centre front, (although this is purely speculation) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] GFD and cleavage
Hello everyone, Over the last few weeks I've been trying to fit a Gothic Fitted Dress (she wants to replicate this style of dress http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Woodville,Elizabeth.jpg ) at our group's weekly meeting (she wants to wear it to an upcoming event in 2 weeks) I've got it fitted enough that her bust won't fall down, but she wants cleavage and nothing I've tried so far is going to do that. Her bust is relatively small and I just can't get the dress to exert the right sort of pressure to push her breasts together. I know cleavage isn't necessarily a period feature of this style but I thought I would ask here before I gave up and told her the dress just won't give her the look she wants. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: GFD and cleavage
- Original Message - From: Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historic Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: GFD and cleavage Hello everyone, Over the last few weeks I've been trying to fit a Gothic Fitted Dress (she wants to replicate this style of dress http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Woodville,Elizabeth.jpg ) snip I just found a better example of this style for those who aren't familiar with the style of 1480s England http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Elizabeth_Seyntmour.htm and you can see an indication of some cleavage there (although unfortunately she is posed in the typical fashion for medieval funereal brasses which gets in the way of seeing her neckline properly), and another example from the same site http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Isabel_Cheyne.htm Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] GFD and cleavage
upward so the widest part of the front curve is at the neckline. The entire front seam, from neckline to navel, looks like a parenthesis -- ( -- with the narrowest part over the ribcage. The outermost reach of the manipulated breast will be above the nipple, at the level of the neckline. Hope this helps. It's much easier to explain in person! --Robin Thanks for these tips I'll try them out and see what sort of success we get. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Jewelry plaques?
- Original Message - From: Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:11 AM Subject: [h-cost] Jewelry plaques? Someone within the past few months posted a link to a place that sells jewelry findings, especially flat plaques, in filigree-ish styles, etc. I've lost the link. Please, if you know where I can get these, let me know. Thank you, Sharon C. snip was this what you were looking for? http://www.fancifulsinc.com/mall/lobby.htm it's got a larger selection than the one Melanie posted but the descriptions aren't as detailed. Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late 15th c English under dress dress
- Original Message - From: SPaterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] late 15th c English under dress dress Again I give the offer of someone who is small breasted and wears this: http://www.freewebs.com/bessdarnley/mistressisobelmowbray.htm she can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sarah Paterson If your friend is happy to be contacted I'll pass on this info to the lady being fitted, her documentation may come in handy another time but right now there's not much time to change the method we're using. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] new 17th century category at Am I Period or Not?
We have finally received enough submissions to create a separate 17th century album at http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ (we set up a policy early on that we would split up the albums into separate centuries once we had enough photos to put 5 in each century) Unfortunately this means that the old comments and votes have been lost in the move (sorry to the owners of the photos but there's no other way to do it), so you can now claim the honour of submitting the first comment on the 17th century photos. Come visit our website http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ For those who have somehow missed my previous messages advertising this site here's a brief summary of the concept: People send in photos of the historical costumes they've made, the photos are loaded onto a website where people can view them, vote on how period accurate they are and leave comments. While the original site that this website was based on was for pre 1600 costume only The New Am I Period Or Not website covers the fashions of any era you like, from the first civilisations to the day before yesterday (plus imaginary eras). Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill
Hello everyone, I'm planning to make-over my French Hood (I used Drea Aleed's 1533 pattern http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/fhoodmake.html#patterns) and although I'm pretty happy with the overall shape of the hood it really needs an under-cap to be more authentic. The Tudor Tailor book recommends metallic organza to make the pleated frill you see at the front of French hoods. I've found this silk/copper organza http://www.trimfabric.com/k-648.html and I wanted to check that this is the same as the 'metallic organza' mentioned in the book. Otherwise Thai silks has a metallic silk organza http://www.thaisilks.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PRODStore_Code=TSProduct_Code=005L which is cheaper but it's 80% 'metal' without specifying what the metal is (and the photo isn't as good so I'm not sure about the overall look). Would the higher metal content mean that it holds the pleats better or would it make it too fragile? If anybody has experimented with pleating metallic organza, which would you recommend for a finely pleated frill? (for an idea of how finely pleated, this http://formetoknow.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?full=1set_albumName=album02id=boleyn1 is the portrait the shape of the hood is based on, you can see the golden coloured frill sticking out from underneath her hood. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande?
- Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, only in a plain fabric. I have a beautiful horned headdress which fits perfectly, and looks good, again based on the painting, but is a pain in the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of the meal, and gets in my way. http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm snip instead of coming up with something new what about pinning back the trailing pieces of veil so they can't get in the way? based on that picture I'd assume the issue is the bottom corners slipping forwards from the back, but if you pinned the corners together at the back (perhaps just temporarily while you're eating) you could avoid eating your veil. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies
- Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does historical costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get a lot of replies. I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and thought it would be fun to show some clips of costumes from movies, and not just good examples but some really bad ones. For instance, I happened to see on tv a bit of an old movie from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called Princess of the Nile which took place in the Middle East and the costumes were so bad they were really laughable. The women were wearing high spiked heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name some other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong historical costumes. Sylrog Actually I did a presentation on historical films as a genre a few years ago, I did a direct comparison between 'The King and I' (1950s musical version with Deborah Kerr wearing hoops as wide as she is tall) and 'Anna and the King' (pretty darned good costuming and the story was a major improvement on the 1950s version, though Hollywood still needed the love interest so they brought the King's age down from over 60 to 30 something, both versions are still banned in Thailand) I showed the equivalent scene in both films (where Anna first meets the children) and pointed out the differences (like the fact that _The King and I_ was clearly shot on a Hollywood set whereas _Anna and the King_ had been filmed on location, although they couldn't get filming permission from the Thai government and had to film in Singapore). Although The King and I is not as really awful as some other movies of that era the direct comparison is kinda nice. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Casanova on PBS........ I was wonder too about theclothes......
- Original Message - From: MaggiRos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Casanova on PBS I was wonder too about theclothes.. Before it was over, I decided that it is meant to be looked at in the same frame of mind as, say A Knight's Tale. The script was fantastic--both in the sence of wonderful/funny and off-beat. The color pallette, like the dance music and the hair, just a little peculiar. This was clearly Venice in a not-entirely-parallel dimension. But I loved it anyway. MaggiRos ~who has not been out of love with Peter O'Toole, ever. Yep, I saw it when it was on in Australia almost a year ago (I think) I loved it as a story and the costumes looked pretty and they were enough like the real thing that it didn't really jar (though I'm an 18th century novice) my recollection of it is that, at least for the first half, the overall look isn't too bad (and I didn't have enough knowledge of the 18th century to know that those were French fashions that don't belong in Venice) and in the second half the anachronisms are clearly deliberate and not intended to really fool anybody (it's the insidious ones I don't like, they start myths that you have to spend a long time beating out of new costumers, Scarlett O'Hara's 16 inch waist is probably the biggest example). I agree with you that the script was fabulous, the acting was also very good (with maybe one or two exceptions among the minor characters). *SPOILER ALERT* Don't read any further if you haven't seen the end and don't want to find out whether it has a happy or sad ending (though I'm not giving anything else away) - - - - - - - - - - - And I bawled my eyes out at the end when the letter arrives. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silk prices in USA
- Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk prices in USA Ahh... $14 is indeed a good price, as long as the quality is good. I get mine here: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/Catalog_items.aspx?Query=taffeta+silk but then, of course, I work for them. snip But they don't ship overseas so it's not much help to people outside the USA. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Happy Halloween!
snip --Sue, who's going to work on Tuesday as a 10th century Norse woman (okay...I'm lazy this year...it's SCA garb g) ah but it's Halloween, you need to add a Wagnerian style 'Viking' horned helmet (preferably with long blonde braids attached) and call yourself Brunhilda, for Halloween you've got to be a modern stereotype, not an accurate historical 'everyman' (or 'everywoman' in this case), you can dress as a famous historical figure (Marie Antoinette, Cleopatra, Napoleon, Henry VIII etc) but if you're an average woman of year X in true Halloween tradition it should be a stereotype like a 'wench' or a 'flapper' or a 'Viking' (in the style of a Wagnerian opera). Halloween is about pop-culture stereotypes, not historical accuracy :-D I won't be dressing up for Halloween as I'll be at home all day preparing for an exam on Friday so I suppose I can't really talk. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au Send photos of your haloween costumes to Am I Period Or Not: http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] pattern shapes late 19th cent riding habits
Hi everyone, A recent discussion elsewhere got me curious about the shape of late 19th century riding habit skirts, I know that up until the 1870s riding habit skirts were usually regular skirts with a train to cover the feet when you're on the horse and then around the 1870s a new cut came in with a dart to accommodate the raised knee but I really can't visualise how it would be constructed. I know there are commercial patterns out there for habit skirts but I'm not interested in actually making one I just want to satisfy my curiosity as to how they would be constructed. Does anyone know of a period pattern diagram from the late Victorian era online? A search of my links turned up this 1912 'standard riding skirt' pattern http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1912thornton6.htm but I don't know how similar that would be to a co. 1870s-80s riding skirt. thanks, Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists'
A friend sent me this link, her outfit(s) must have been one heck of a challenge for the costumer who created it. www.youtube.com/v/RB-wUgnyGv0 Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
- Original Message - From: Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset I have in my online library three images of two metal corsets for this period in chapter 4 of the following book. Book info: W.B.L. (listed author),The Corset and the Crinoline: A Book of Modes and Costumes, London: Ward, Lock, and Tyler, 1868. This book is about the history of corsetry and crinoline. Here is a paragraph from the book about the metal corsets from page 75: Several writers have mentioned the 'steel corsets' of this period, and assumed that they were used for the purpose of forcibly reducing the size of the waist. In this opinion they were incorrect, as the steel framework in question was simply used to wear over the corset after the waist had been reduced by lacing to the required standard, in order that the dress over it might fit with inflexible and unerring exactness, and that not even a fold might be seen in the faultless stomacher then worn. These corsets (or, more correctly, corset-covers) were constructed of very thin steel plate, which was cut out and wrought into a species of open-work pattern, with a view to giving lightness to them. Numbers of holes were drilled through the flat surfaces between the hollows of the pattern, through which the needle and thread were passed in covering them accurately with velvet, silk, or other rich materials. During the reign of Queen Catherine de Medici, to whom is attributed the invention of these contrivances, they became great favourites, and were much worn, not only at her court, but throughout the greater part of the continent. snip On the topic of 16th century Iron corsets I have heard it said that Eleanor of Toledo may have had an iron corset because she was very ill during the last few years of her life and she was wasting away, because her dressmakers couldn't take her clothes in fast enough to keep up with the disease's progress she was given a rigid metal corset to keep the shape of her gown even though she was several sizes smaller inside it. It came up in the context of the new Moda di Firenze book (is that the right title?) so maybe it's in there, then again it may have been from a different source. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Other resources for 1800's gown
You might want to have a look at this collection of fashion plates http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/reg3.html the train certainly shows up on dresses worn for occasions other than court, but given the length of the train I'd still assume it was for a full dress occasion. Elizabeth - Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] Other resources for 1800's gown Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could point me to resources (books, etc.) which might help me find out more about this style of gown. http://tinyurl.com/hzc6ahttp://tinyurl.com/hzc6a I've been asked to make and under dress, head dress and gloves for it for the Phoenix Art Museum. What I am specifically looking for are headdresses which would be worn and information which might tell me if the under dress for this gown would have been full length. (I have seen some illustrations that would indicate you could see the lower leg of the woman under the outer dress - and the cut off of the under dress is visible.) Also, does the train necessarily indicate that it was a court dress? Oh and also what the gloves would have been made from? (I have all the standard pattern books, Waugh, Arnold etc. and the standard general histories of costume, Davenport, Payne, Boucher) I just got this one through bookfinders: The Age of Napoleon: Costume from Revolution to Empire, 1789-1815) Any others you would recommend? Thanks for the pointers in advance, Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13
I think so I'm pretty sure I've read about it somewhere last time mythical waist sizes came up on one of my lists, but it's a corset cover not an actual corset there's a fabric corset underneath that actually gets her waist down to that size and then the metal corset cover is a decorative piece of jewellery to go over the top. Elizabeth - Original Message - From: Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13 In the picture on the Guinness site, is she wearing a metal corset? snip http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/extreme_bodies/small est_waist_on_a_living_person.aspx snip ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
- Original Message - From: Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any historical evidence of this kind of dress: http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? Zuzana Other people have commented on the lack of evidence for contrasting gores, I'm just going to deal with the usual argument for why it 'might' be period. A lot of people who like this style argue that if people had been short on fabric they would have had to use another fabric for the gores, while this is plausible the concept of therefore making a feature of your lack of fabric doesn't seem to fit the medieval mindset (it would be an admission that I'm too poor to buy enough fabric for one dress, not hey look at me I'm so cool and different) . If you ran out of fabric you may have to get a new piece from a different dye lot which is a slightly different colour but it would be the sort of contrast that isn't readily obvious until you look closely. I can't provide a medieval example but I have seen a photo of a mid 19th century dress which has evidence of piecing done in a very similar print but not matching. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
Well, except that in reality what costs $1 in the USA costs £1 in the UK. So from the UK seller's point of view it would be a more accurate reflection of their how much they are earning (in terms of paying the bills, keeping food on the table etc.) if you just change the dollar symbol to a pounds symbol. Now change your estimate to $350 (or even better look at more local websites) and see if it's still worth it. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: Quoting Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How much is 350 pounds? $700 USD -- approximately susan - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
- Original Message - From: Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Personally, I wouldn't touch it if it were mailed to me, free. And sure not for several hundred dollars. I've seen some seriously tacky [EMAIL PROTECTED] aimed at the non-sewing SCA crowd (and, I assume at other non-sewing reenactors/hobbyists of relatively same time frame and required authenticity level), and that particular gown's right in there with the please, god, make it go away stuff IMHO, of course. --Sue, needing to go fondle some of her wool flannels just to take the taint away ;o) In defence of this company in particular the example we've been discussing is in their custom made section, so presumably it's a customer's design not their own. Their readymade stuff looks fairly good as does most of their custom made stuff, and they do describe the fantasy stuff as 'medieval inspired' or '15th century inspired' etc. http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/ Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review
- Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review May I ask what hair style you wear under your hood? I tried the styles mentioned in the Tudor Tailor, and my hair is so thick it wants to fall off my head, and pins are of almost no help. I have mid-back length hair, if that is long enough. Kimiko Have you tried taping or sewing the braids in place? like this http://www.mfgraffix.com/hird/faoilt/hairtape.html or this http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/hair/Hair%20taping.htm it should be more secure that way. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] hair taping
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:19 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair taping I'm intrigued by the reference to Elizabeth's second link--I can't find the message this clearly refers to, and maybe hair taping would be helpful to me. snip Ever grateful-- Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer These are the two links I posted before http://www.mfgraffix.com/hird/faoilt/hairtape.html and http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/hair/Hair%20taping.htm they are both different methods of hair taping as seen in 16th century Italian images, but it's also a plausible way of anchoring headwear such as French Hoods (which is how the discussion came up) You probably couldn't find it because it was under the header 'Tudor Tailor - another review' as part of a discussion of their method of recreating the French Hood. If you've got a particular time period in mind other than 16th century Italy you probably need a hat, but if it's just generic 'medjeeval' then this technique using something non-slip to hold your hair in place and some decorative ribbon or trim over the top could give you a pretty 'olde worlde' look. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls
Hi everyone, I'm looking for 16th century images of bum rolls (no not to wear with a Spanish Farthingale), I've got 2 in mind in particular, the first is a cartoon poking fun at fashion, it shows women in a dressmaker's shop and there's at least one woman with her skirt lifted up to show the bum roll. The second is a painting, all I can remember is a group of women sitting on stools in the foreground wearing pastel colours facing away from the viewer to look at something in the middle of the painting (I'm thinking they are looking at a dance but I may be confusing it with another painting). The way their hips are enlarged but their skirts compress relatively easily to sit down suggests a bum roll, for some reason I'm thinking this image is associated with the French Court but I can't remember why. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls
- Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls Following up my own post (below): Here's one of the images: http://www.insecula.com/oeuvre/photo_ME057470.html The presence of rolls is very clear, particularly on the woman in the right foreground, but on some others as well. It does seem to be at the Louvre, as I was remembering. I probably have some photos of it and its mate, but I haven't gotten around to indexing all of the 500 or so slides I took in Paris ... a few years ago ... yeesh, I will never get them all straight. --Robin Aha! I found another http://homepage.mac.com/muzette/Eng.File/Art/Gallery_pages/Gallery_bal.html it's not that big but this is the one I was thinking of. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls
Either of a pair of small panoramas associated with a ball commemmorating the wedding of the Duc de Joyeuse, showing the French court of Henri III. My slide notes say the paintings are at the Musee National du Chateau de Versailles, but I feel certain I saw them at the Louvre a few years ago; maybe part of the same series, maybe copies, maybe they have been moved. Various of these images are reproduced in a lot of books; one that's easy to find is Brian Holme's _Princely Feasts and Festivals_. I think one or both are in Davenport as well. --Robin thanks Robin and Dawn for the info, I've managed to find a very small version of the French painting http://www.silesiancramer.com/art/czech/16_wedding.htm but I'll keep looking for a larger image (it has to be electronic as I am trying to answer a question on another list) at least I've got one image and I have something to go on to find the painting. And Robin's second message has just arrived in my inbox so I've now got a decent sized image. thanks Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls
- Original Message - From: Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls I wear a bumroll with my Ren Faire costume and it doesn't stick out as far as in that painting. Also, the style of the clothing (especially the very long pointed fronts) is from the late 1500's, when wheel farthingales were worn. Bumrolls, worn alone, were earlier. but if you made one as large as this http://www.geocities.com/technically_naked/grueso8.jpg it would stick out that far. What is your evidence for bumrolls worn alone prior to last decade or two of the 16th century? Prior to the fashion for the 'body on a platter' look a set of petticoats or a Spanish Farthingale would be all the skirt support I would suspect. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] h-cost] What's your dressmaker dummy wearing and sewingaffliction
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 7:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] h-cost] What's your dressmaker dummy wearing and sewingaffliction In a message dated 05/12/2006 19:04:35 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've thought about that a lot. I think I have a severe fear of making that initial cut into virgin fabric. Anyone else suffer from this? completely - with expensive or hard to get fabric. imagine what I'll be like in a few weeks with the silk doublet I have to make. the silk's £70+ per metre!! Oddly enough I get the same reaction to something that was a real bargain, it's all about the irreplaceable nature of the fabric, if it's really expensive or an incredible bargain because I think if I stuff this up I won't be able to afford to replace the fabric, I had those sort of fears with a $3 per metre brocade because I thought it's going to be essentially impossible to replace (this was heightened by the fact that I was using a new pattern and I hadn't really tested it 'in the field', so to speak). If I know it's something I'll be able to buy again next time it's in season or next time I go to the fabric shop for a similar price (which basically means linen, fustian or cotton) I don't have the same reaction. But, because stuff usually matures in my fabric stash for at least a few months before I end up using it, by the time I get around to using anything that runs in fashionable cycles (e.g. brocades) it's gone from the shops never to be seen again. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
