Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Interesting idea. Perhaps we should be reporting these communities to the ad services they use as well. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
They could put the account simply in #hold status and not let them get there money for that month until they either clean up there act or after X time just cancel account with no payment. Also you could make it so that they could re-register those ips for X time meaning that they would have to move every single server. On 8/11/2012 11:39 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: Interesting idea. Perhaps we should be reporting these communities to the ad services they use as well. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to read them if one doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading it either. They can plaster it with ads for all I care. As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is in place, a good hammering is possible. From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers. The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even when you run a solid community, especially starting out. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I think Valve already has full control over the process of clients joining a server (remember the Steam Ticket issues) thus it should be easy for them to prevent a client from connecting to a delisted server. On 2012/08/11 12:27, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk wrote: Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to read them if one doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading it either. They can plaster it with ads for all I care. As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which they can set up servers. That those should get linked ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is in place, a good hammering is possible. -- *From:* Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers. The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even when you run a solid community, especially starting out. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
The server score is completely defeated by fake clients. Even if no one is on the server fake clients still show up as players thus elevating the score when no one is even playing. Within a few weeks you can have a highly ranked server without even having players on your server. So while your server is loosing rank in off peak hours fake client servers appear to be full still and jump ahead of you in rankings. If you guys are not totally funding your servers with pinion by now. You have no idea what you are doing. You can bash ads all you want but it pays for all my servers. Donations at this point are actually gravy. Pinion is not going away so stop wishing. Players can disable html messages at any point or blacklist you so if you spam them with ADs you will end up empty soon enough. Overall Fake Clients is a very serious issue and it undermines the server ranking. The entire point is it tricks the quickplay system into believing there are players on the server and therefore sends you more players which give you ad views. Fake clients fill servers and if you think you can go toe to toe with a admin running fake clients you have lost your mind. Players stay on servers with more players and quickplay sends them more players. F2P players have no idea the server is full of fake bots with artificial pings and avatars. While you wait for your servers to fill Fake client servers are full first and stay full longer and this just defeats the server score you think is an equalizer. It most certainly is not. Fake clients undermines the entire system. - Original Message - From: E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com To: Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 7:10:10 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve already has in place the best method possible for weeding out poor servers - the server score. If a player leaves a server quickly (which I have to think they will with a bunch of fake clients, etc.) the score will decline over time, allowing the cream to rise to the top. Again - I think the root of the problem here is quickplay itself. Practically overnight, it has lulled new server operators into thinking that filling servers is not only easy, but is (for the most part) Valve's responsibility. It has also led to a rise in the use of fake clients/illegitimate bots in an attempt to garner as much of that easy traffic as possible. We've seen the effects of this every time there is a hiccup or small change in the system, as this list lights up with complaints of quickplay is not working, or quickplay no longer fills my servers, etc. etc. Those complaints are invariably followed by calls for more action against the bad players. Now, I'm all for taking action against the bad guys - the less of them the better (for the players, that is). My point is, even if Valve were able to rid the server list of every nefarious operators using these kinds of cheats, it wouldn't increase most server operator's traffic one bit over what you are already getting (which, if everyone who has their torch and pitchfork out would admit, is the motivation behind these debates - everyone wants the traffic those servers are getting). Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to consider: 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or those premium pay to win benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one step up from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the donations will come. If your next argument is that donations dried up, so I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players exposed to those ads are in the buying frame of mind, and click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your backup plan then? 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the server browser for new players
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Olsen I like that you put so much thought into your posts but you seem to be mistaken. Not every server owner who has a problem with abusive server operators has dead servers and is just jealous wanting all that traffic. We run several servers with one in the top 70 and the rest are getting there. We have -very- popular servers. Please don't be under the impression that everyone complaining about Quickplay / Fake Clients can't run their own populated servers. I'm not sure why you think the rest of us can't run popular servers because we're complaining about policy violations. Some people don't like seeing the system abused. If that results in more traffic for them, fine. But it's not like banning one or two abusive communities would have helped their efforts if they weren't dedicated owners in the first place. You have to work at it to get a community and players unless you cheat. Seeing that a few abusive operators are taken care of won't change that. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
+1 - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:11:40 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Olsen I like that you put so much thought into your posts but you seem to be mistaken. Not every server owner who has a problem with abusive server operators has dead servers and is just jealous wanting all that traffic. We run several servers with one in the top 70 and the rest are getting there. We have -very- popular servers. Please don't be under the impression that everyone complaining about Quickplay / Fake Clients can't run their own populated servers. I'm not sure why you think the rest of us can't run popular servers because we're complaining about policy violations. Some people don't like seeing the system abused. If that results in more traffic for them, fine. But it's not like banning one or two abusive communities would have helped their efforts if they weren't dedicated owners in the first place. You have to work at it to get a community and players unless you cheat. Seeing that a few abusive operators are taken care of won't change that. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the donations will come. If your next argument is that donations dried up, so I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players exposed to those ads are in the buying frame of mind, and click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your backup plan then? 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until they reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class on X number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards - no access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building regular server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an issue before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really didn't really help the guys who did it that much. Server operators that went to the enormous effort of building awesome gaming environments and consistently seeding their servers (you know, by actually playing on them until they filled up) were rewarded over time with players that favorited them and came back, over and over. If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you honestly have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random players that are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are building a house of cards, plain and simple. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to read them if one doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading it either. They can plaster it with ads for all I care. As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is in place, a good hammering is possible. *From:* Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com mailto:kritskring...@gmail.com *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
of this debate, there's something to consider: 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or those premium pay to win benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one step up from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the donations will come. If your next argument is that donations dried up, so I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players exposed to those ads are in the buying frame of mind, and click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your backup plan then? 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until they reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class on X number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards - no access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building regular server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an issue before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really didn't really help the guys who did it that much. Server operators that went to the enormous effort of building awesome gaming environments and consistently seeding their servers (you know, by actually playing on them until they filled up) were rewarded over time with players that favorited them and came back, over and over. If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you honestly have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random players that are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are building a house of cards, plain and simple. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to read them if one doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading it either. They can plaster it with ads for all I care. As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is in place, a good hammering is possible. *From:* Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com mailto:kritskring...@gmail.com *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be frowned upon for needing
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
and pitchfork out would admit, is the motivation behind these debates - everyone wants the traffic those servers are getting). Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to consider: 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or those premium pay to win benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one step up from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the donations will come. If your next argument is that donations dried up, so I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players exposed to those ads are in the buying frame of mind, and click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your backup plan then? 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until they reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class on X number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards - no access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building regular server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an issue before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really didn't really help the guys who did it that much. Server operators that went to the enormous effort of building awesome gaming environments and consistently seeding their servers (you know, by actually playing on them until they filled up) were rewarded over time with players that favorited them and came back, over and over. If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you honestly have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random players that are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are building a house of cards, plain and simple. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to read them if one doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading it either. They can plaster it with ads for all I care. As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is in place, a good hammering is possible. From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their users for only a quick buck and properly administrate
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
People being able to vote obviously means they are all semi-admins, following your logic. And with the built-in TF2 voting system, that makes every single player on Valve servers semi-admins because anyone can start a vote, right? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.comwrote: Maybe I redirected my spat at the wrong person Russell, but as you can tell, I am slowly getting attacked because I use an ad to keep my servers up. The reason I made my servers was because of lotus which I have repeated way too many times already, but I did it is because the donator system at lotus gave donators a semi-admin powers which is why I also went more and more to ads instead of donators. Pretty much any donator if they wanted a friend in the server immediately started a vote to kick a player. They also muted people simply because the person was young. So when asked can I buy admin for my servers I have repeatedly stated No because I know it will lead to abuse, which I don't want. On 2012-08-10 16:54, DontWannaName! wrote: Oh that's sweet Russel :) I didn't either. The more you get caught in the more you end up like just another McDonalds. Iv seen a lot since I started running servers 6 years ago, these types of ads are new and are being abused. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- -- Cameron Munroe http://www.cameronmunroe.com/ http://www.munroenet.com/ __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves Policy of Truth instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. - Original Message - From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it done and over with? On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if not earlier. The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty operator I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them. Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me then what? Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. Well everyone voted for you? Yeah, but that is because all the rest have been trained to do so. The regulars. I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair, fun. Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic FAKE CLIENTS you will find that most have donator rights and ads. BOTH, so it isn't a sole ads issue. Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. What if they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest. They go watch a vid and say OMG SAXTON HALE! I want to go play that, but they can't because of your stupid block. Lets say they wanted to go play on a server that they knew was fun from friends, but they can't as it doesn't have godlike scores on quickplay? What then are you going to now force them into a server they don't want, yes. In all actuality, if you killed quickplay you probably would make and help make my CTF servers even fill faster, as now my score on quickplay is next to nothing. Though I have 9 other servers that have !hop so people would begin to play on it more as they wouldn't just go to quickplay. Quickplay should instead be changed to benefit small communities that have been verified. Though I agree with the fact that if you got rid of bad servers I agree that no traffic will increase to me or other small communities, it will still all go to valve and lotusclan. Please realize I'm only using the above communities as an example, no hard feelings? On 8/11/2012 4:10 AM, E. Olsen wrote: I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve already has in place the best method possible for weeding out
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
, over and over. If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you honestly have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random players that are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are building a house of cards, plain and simple. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to read them if one doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading it either. They can plaster it with ads for all I care. As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is in place, a good hammering is possible. From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers. The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even when you run a solid community, especially starting out. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Good points Robert and as I've said, I feel nothing is wrong with that. I also don't think servers offering paid for benefits are wrong either. It's up to them to provide the game play experience they want and if they want to sell premium benefits (Which I think is lame, but not against the rules) Then they should have the ability to. This of course assumes they're following all of the Policy of Truth rules, etc. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
My problem is that they can just spam it until they are done. Most servers use a process where x number of people have to vote and then they are prompted. In other words they just keep spamming the voteban until it is successful. On Aug 11, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Brian Simon wrote: People being able to vote obviously means they are all semi-admins, following your logic. And with the built-in TF2 voting system, that makes every single player on Valve servers semi-admins because anyone can start a vote, right? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Maybe I redirected my spat at the wrong person Russell, but as you can tell, I am slowly getting attacked because I use an ad to keep my servers up. The reason I made my servers was because of lotus which I have repeated way too many times already, but I did it is because the donator system at lotus gave donators a semi-admin powers which is why I also went more and more to ads instead of donators. Pretty much any donator if they wanted a friend in the server immediately started a vote to kick a player. They also muted people simply because the person was young. So when asked can I buy admin for my servers I have repeatedly stated No because I know it will lead to abuse, which I don't want. On 2012-08-10 16:54, DontWannaName! wrote: Oh that's sweet Russel :) I didn't either. The more you get caught in the more you end up like just another McDonalds. Iv seen a lot since I started running servers 6 years ago, these types of ads are new and are being abused. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- -- Cameron Munroe http://www.cameronmunroe.com/ http://www.munroenet.com/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this email thread solely based on ads. I for one don't like having to sell donator rights to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use ads then your BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves Policy of Truth instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. - Original Message - From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it done and over with? On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if not earlier. The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty operator I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them. Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me then what? Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. Well everyone voted for you? Yeah, but that is because all the rest have been trained to do so. The regulars. I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair, fun. Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic FAKE CLIENTS you will find that most have donator rights and ads. BOTH, so it isn't a sole ads issue. Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. What if they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest. They go watch a vid and say OMG SAXTON HALE! I want to go play that, but they can't because of your stupid block. Lets say they wanted to go play on a server that they knew was fun from friends, but they can't as it doesn't have godlike scores on quickplay? What then are you going to now force them into a server they don't want, yes. In all actuality, if you killed quickplay you probably would make and help make my CTF servers even fill faster, as now my score on quickplay
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I am not sure why you are replying to mine since that was my entire point. Focus on actual policy violations and stop witch hunts. - Original Message - From: Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:30:39 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this email thread solely based on ads. I for one don't like having to sell donator rights to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use ads then your BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves Policy of Truth instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. - Original Message - From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it done and over with? On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if not earlier. The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty operator I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them. Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me then what? Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. Well everyone voted for you? Yeah, but that is because all the rest have been trained to do so. The regulars. I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair, fun. Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic FAKE CLIENTS you will find that most have donator rights and ads. BOTH, so it isn't a sole ads issue. Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. What if they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest. They go watch a vid and say OMG SAXTON HALE! I want to go play that, but they can't because
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
You can set a cooldown period. My votes are not allowed again for 90 seconds. - Original Message - From: Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:24:31 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? My problem is that they can just spam it until they are done. Most servers use a process where x number of people have to vote and then they are prompted. In other words they just keep spamming the voteban until it is successful. On Aug 11, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Brian Simon wrote: People being able to vote obviously means they are all semi-admins, following your logic. And with the built-in TF2 voting system, that makes every single player on Valve servers semi-admins because anyone can start a vote, right? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Maybe I redirected my spat at the wrong person Russell, but as you can tell, I am slowly getting attacked because I use an ad to keep my servers up. The reason I made my servers was because of lotus which I have repeated way too many times already, but I did it is because the donator system at lotus gave donators a semi-admin powers which is why I also went more and more to ads instead of donators. Pretty much any donator if they wanted a friend in the server immediately started a vote to kick a player. They also muted people simply because the person was young. So when asked can I buy admin for my servers I have repeatedly stated No because I know it will lead to abuse, which I don't want. On 2012-08-10 16:54, DontWannaName! wrote: Oh that's sweet Russel :) I didn't either. The more you get caught in the more you end up like just another McDonalds. Iv seen a lot since I started running servers 6 years ago, these types of ads are new and are being abused. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. __ _ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware. com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ hlds __ _ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware. com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ hlds -- -- Cameron Munroe http://www.cameronmunroe.com/ http://www.munroenet.com/ __ _ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware. com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I am really starting to understand the whole Playa Hater concept. :) - Original Message - From: Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 7:32:57 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I'm sorry for rebumping this thread, but I feel it needs to be balanced in case anyone from Valve decides to take it seriously. Does anyone else not find it strange that people are making tens of thousands a month off the Steam Workshop and no one is saying how greedy they are? Where is the righteous indignation that they should be submitting their models for free to fpsbanana and rely solely on donations? Running a successful server is much more work than creating a couple of models. Why is the idea of a server owner making the equivalent of a Starbucks per day even causing discussions of greed? Is everyone here a teen or college student where an extra $50 a month is criminally rich? Why are servers owners only allowed to take donations and create a large rift between the donators and non-donators? To the owner of TN and NoHeroes, do not force your own views of morality on us. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:10 AM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote: I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve already has in place the best method possible for weeding out poor servers - the server score. If a player leaves a server quickly (which I have to think they will with a bunch of fake clients, etc.) the score will decline over time, allowing the cream to rise to the top. Again - I think the root of the problem here is quickplay itself. Practically overnight, it has lulled new server operators into thinking that filling servers is not only easy, but is (for the most part) Valve's responsibility. It has also led to a rise in the use of fake clients/illegitimate bots in an attempt to garner as much of that easy traffic as possible. We've seen the effects of this every time there is a hiccup or small change in the system, as this list lights up with complaints of quickplay is not working, or quickplay no longer fills my servers, etc. etc. Those complaints are invariably followed by calls for more action against the bad players. Now, I'm all for taking action against the bad guys - the less of them the better (for the players, that is). My point is, even if Valve were able to rid the server list of every nefarious operators using these kinds of cheats, it wouldn't increase most server operator's traffic one bit over what you are already getting (which, if everyone who has their torch and pitchfork out would admit, is the motivation behind these debates - everyone wants the traffic those servers are getting). Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to consider: 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or those premium pay to win benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one step up from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the donations will come. If your next argument is that donations dried up, so I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players exposed to those ads are in the buying frame of mind, and click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your backup plan then? 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until they reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class on X number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards - no access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building regular server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an issue before the quickplay system was turned
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I used to have this issue but after playing with the settings a few times you can completely marginalize this issue. I have not heard anyone make a complaint about this in 4 or 5 months since the last time I adjusted mine and all my VIPs can start immediate votes. - Original Message - From: Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:54:56 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? ... then they wait the minute and half and spam it again. LOL or they go and votekick them, player comes back. OHHH MY GOD HES BACK thats a violation ban him.[repeat] On Aug 11, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: You can set a cooldown period. My votes are not allowed again for 90 seconds. - Original Message - From: Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:24:31 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? My problem is that they can just spam it until they are done. Most servers use a process where x number of people have to vote and then they are prompted. In other words they just keep spamming the voteban until it is successful. On Aug 11, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Brian Simon wrote: People being able to vote obviously means they are all semi-admins, following your logic. And with the built-in TF2 voting system, that makes every single player on Valve servers semi-admins because anyone can start a vote, right? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Maybe I redirected my spat at the wrong person Russell, but as you can tell, I am slowly getting attacked because I use an ad to keep my servers up. The reason I made my servers was because of lotus which I have repeated way too many times already, but I did it is because the donator system at lotus gave donators a semi-admin powers which is why I also went more and more to ads instead of donators. Pretty much any donator if they wanted a friend in the server immediately started a vote to kick a player. They also muted people simply because the person was young. So when asked can I buy admin for my servers I have repeatedly stated No because I know it will lead to abuse, which I don't want. On 2012-08-10 16:54, DontWannaName! wrote: Oh that's sweet Russel :) I didn't either. The more you get caught in the more you end up like just another McDonalds. Iv seen a lot since I started running servers 6 years ago, these types of ads are new and are being abused. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. __ _ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware. com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ hlds __ _ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware. com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ hlds -- -- Cameron Munroe http://www.cameronmunroe.com/ http://www.munroenet.com/ __ _ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware. com
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
What are you guys talking about when you say ADs? Are we talking about those annoying servers that play AD videos in their MOTD? What the heck is the benefit of running those annoying things on your servers anyways? I don't understand... On Aug 11, 2012 5:30 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this email thread solely based on ads. I for one don't like having to sell donator rights to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use ads then your BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves Policy of Truth instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. - Original Message - From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it done and over with? On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if not earlier. The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty operator I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them. Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me then what? Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. Well everyone voted for you? Yeah, but that is because all the rest have been trained to do so. The regulars. I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair, fun. Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic FAKE CLIENTS you will find that most have donator rights and ads. BOTH, so it isn't a sole ads issue. Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. What if they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest. They go watch a vid and say OMG SAXTON HALE! I want to go play that, but they can't because of your stupid block. Lets say they wanted to go play
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
You get $1.50 for every 1000 views. Its a company called pinion. If you have a solid server it should cover the operating cost of the server. - Original Message - From: Timothy Sadleir tsadl...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:11:33 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? What are you guys talking about when you say ADs? Are we talking about those annoying servers that play AD videos in their MOTD? What the heck is the benefit of running those annoying things on your servers anyways? I don't understand... On Aug 11, 2012 5:30 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this email thread solely based on ads. I for one don't like having to sell donator rights to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use ads then your BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves Policy of Truth instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. - Original Message - From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it done and over with? On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if not earlier. The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty operator I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them. Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me then what? Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. Well everyone voted for you? Yeah, but that is because all the rest have been trained to do so. The regulars
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Ahhh okay. Thanks for the info. On Aug 11, 2012 6:16 PM, Todd Pettit pettit.t...@gmail.com wrote: You get $1.50 for every 1000 views. Its a company called pinion. If you have a solid server it should cover the operating cost of the server. - Original Message - From: Timothy Sadleir tsadl...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:11:33 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? What are you guys talking about when you say ADs? Are we talking about those annoying servers that play AD videos in their MOTD? What the heck is the benefit of running those annoying things on your servers anyways? I don't understand... On Aug 11, 2012 5:30 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this email thread solely based on ads. I for one don't like having to sell donator rights to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use ads then your BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves Policy of Truth instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. - Original Message - From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it done and over with? On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if not earlier. The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty operator I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them. Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me then what? Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. Well everyone voted for you? Yeah
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
We run it as well, and for some reason it has been highly associated that this is the issue with policy of truth, but it isn't. If a community has been bad, and then worse, and then keep going down the line and keep breaking Valve's policies why don't they simply contact the ad company and say remove them please. On Aug 11, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Timothy Sadleir wrote: Ahhh okay. Thanks for the info. On Aug 11, 2012 6:16 PM, Todd Pettit pettit.t...@gmail.com wrote: You get $1.50 for every 1000 views. Its a company called pinion. If you have a solid server it should cover the operating cost of the server. - Original Message - From: Timothy Sadleir tsadl...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:11:33 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? What are you guys talking about when you say ADs? Are we talking about those annoying servers that play AD videos in their MOTD? What the heck is the benefit of running those annoying things on your servers anyways? I don't understand... On Aug 11, 2012 5:30 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this email thread solely based on ads. I for one don't like having to sell donator rights to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use ads then your BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves Policy of Truth instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. - Original Message - From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it done and over with? On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if not earlier. The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty operator I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them. Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me then what? Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium For me I would rather not to give
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
What do you mean? Why would pinion drop any of these 'bad' servers for breaking Valve's policies? Pinion cares about people seeing their ads, and those 'bad' servers probably serve out more ads than most of their other affiliates. On 8/11/2012 8:06 PM, Cameron Munroe wrote: We run it as well, and for some reason it has been highly associated that this is the issue with policy of truth, but it isn't. If a community has been bad, and then worse, and then keep going down the line and keep breaking Valve's policies why don't they simply contact the ad company and say remove them please. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Thankfully some companies have morals, and I hope pinion does as well. Google.com could make tons, I mean tons more money if it did some very very simple changes to any of it ad setups, and other products. The fact though is they see it as bad and the have a large enough moral not to do it. I am hoping pinion is the same way. If they are to support good communities sometimes they must help act against bad ones. On 8/11/2012 8:19 PM, Russell Smith wrote: What do you mean? Why would pinion drop any of these 'bad' servers for breaking Valve's policies? Pinion cares about people seeing their ads, and those 'bad' servers probably serve out more ads than most of their other affiliates. On 8/11/2012 8:06 PM, Cameron Munroe wrote: We run it as well, and for some reason it has been highly associated that this is the issue with policy of truth, but it isn't. If a community has been bad, and then worse, and then keep going down the line and keep breaking Valve's policies why don't they simply contact the ad company and say remove them please. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Pinion visited valve multiple times now, they would definitely care to keep their relationship with valve on good terms. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.uswrote: What do you mean? Why would pinion drop any of these 'bad' servers for breaking Valve's policies? Pinion cares about people seeing their ads, and those 'bad' servers probably serve out more ads than most of their other affiliates. On 8/11/2012 8:06 PM, Cameron Munroe wrote: We run it as well, and for some reason it has been highly associated that this is the issue with policy of truth, but it isn't. If a community has been bad, and then worse, and then keep going down the line and keep breaking Valve's policies why don't they simply contact the ad company and say remove them please. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I personally like all three of these ideas. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.comwrote: It seems that some servers that have been delisted are able to somewhat sustain active servers by tricking their current community members and those who have favorited them with the same fake clients that got them banned in the first place. I had some ideas I thought could make delistment a more serious matter and the hope is that community owners wouldn't be so quick to break the rules that can result in a delistment. Here are just a few of the ideas: 1. Banning or disabling the steam accounts of community owners who are repeat offenders. 2. Doing a check on the favorites list. Query to see if the server is banned. If it is, do not return the server. 3. Disable the Steam Group of communities who are delisted for the duration of their delistment. This will prevent the group owner or officers from pointing the members to a new group or updating the IP addresses in the profile to new servers and no more events. Right now, banned servers can sustain players just by posting events. Some of the more popular groups have upwards of 100k members. This also reminded me why allowing hostnames in the favorites list wouldn't be a good idea. Banned communities could easily route users to their new servers if the favorites list allowed hostnames. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Lil' overzealous. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: I personally like all three of these ideas. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.comwrote: It seems that some servers that have been delisted are able to somewhat sustain active servers by tricking their current community members and those who have favorited them with the same fake clients that got them banned in the first place. I had some ideas I thought could make delistment a more serious matter and the hope is that community owners wouldn't be so quick to break the rules that can result in a delistment. Here are just a few of the ideas: 1. Banning or disabling the steam accounts of community owners who are repeat offenders. 2. Doing a check on the favorites list. Query to see if the server is banned. If it is, do not return the server. 3. Disable the Steam Group of communities who are delisted for the duration of their delistment. This will prevent the group owner or officers from pointing the members to a new group or updating the IP addresses in the profile to new servers and no more events. Right now, banned servers can sustain players just by posting events. Some of the more popular groups have upwards of 100k members. This also reminded me why allowing hostnames in the favorites list wouldn't be a good idea. Banned communities could easily route users to their new servers if the favorites list allowed hostnames. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Thing is, it’s currently a cat-and-mouse game with Valve and the offending communities. Valve bans IPs, they get new IPs, rinse, repeat. We need more strict punishments. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com From: byteframe Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:23 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Lil' overzealous. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: I personally like all three of these ideas. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that some servers that have been delisted are able to somewhat sustain active servers by tricking their current community members and those who have favorited them with the same fake clients that got them banned in the first place. I had some ideas I thought could make delistment a more serious matter and the hope is that community owners wouldn't be so quick to break the rules that can result in a delistment. Here are just a few of the ideas: 1. Banning or disabling the steam accounts of community owners who are repeat offenders. 2. Doing a check on the favorites list. Query to see if the server is banned. If it is, do not return the server. 3. Disable the Steam Group of communities who are delisted for the duration of their delistment. This will prevent the group owner or officers from pointing the members to a new group or updating the IP addresses in the profile to new servers and no more events. Right now, banned servers can sustain players just by posting events. Some of the more popular groups have upwards of 100k members. This also reminded me why allowing hostnames in the favorites list wouldn't be a good idea. Banned communities could easily route users to their new servers if the favorites list allowed hostnames. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
You don't suppose that plastering your server MOTD with ads and tricking the system in to sending players to your server is over-zealous? Ads are one thing, tricking players and especially tricking players for monetary profits is another. Delisting a server should be a serious thing. It shouldn't be a slap on the hand that can be more or less gotten around with new IP addresses. Delisting may hurt a small community but a very large community is not all that hurt by a delisting. Not to mention, Valve has to play a game of cat and mouse with such servers and banning the new IP addresses. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I personally have no problems with ads. The ads are the only reason my community has stayed alive. I know nothing about the current method of fake players, but maybe just not allow servers that have bots on them in quickplay (this would only work for servers that make bots appear as players which I don't even know if that's the current method)? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.comwrote: You don't suppose that plastering your server MOTD with ads and tricking the system in to sending players to your server is over-zealous? Ads are one thing, tricking players and especially tricking players for monetary profits is another. Delisting a server should be a serious thing. It shouldn't be a slap on the hand that can be more or less gotten around with new IP addresses. Delisting may hurt a small community but a very large community is not all that hurt by a delisting. Not to mention, Valve has to play a game of cat and mouse with such servers and banning the new IP addresses. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Whoops. I should say that I have problems with these servers that abuse ads for money. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: I personally have no problems with ads. The ads are the only reason my community has stayed alive. I know nothing about the current method of fake players, but maybe just not allow servers that have bots on them in quickplay (this would only work for servers that make bots appear as players which I don't even know if that's the current method)? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.comwrote: You don't suppose that plastering your server MOTD with ads and tricking the system in to sending players to your server is over-zealous? Ads are one thing, tricking players and especially tricking players for monetary profits is another. Delisting a server should be a serious thing. It shouldn't be a slap on the hand that can be more or less gotten around with new IP addresses. Delisting may hurt a small community but a very large community is not all that hurt by a delisting. Not to mention, Valve has to play a game of cat and mouse with such servers and banning the new IP addresses. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
--or-- on the server list when a player tries to join one of these servers it states to them This server has been delisted due to false advertisement and breaking the rules of tf2, join at your own peril. Shouldn't be that hard to setup either. On 8/10/2012 2:24 PM, Doctor McKay wrote: Thing is, it's currently a cat-and-mouse game with Valve and the offending communities. Valve bans IPs, they get new IPs, rinse, repeat. We need more strict punishments. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com *From:* byteframe mailto:bytefr...@gmail.com *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2012 5:23 PM *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Lil' overzealous. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com mailto:smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: I personally like all three of these ideas. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com mailto:kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: It seems that some servers that have been delisted are able to somewhat sustain active servers by tricking their current community members and those who have favorited them with the same fake clients that got them banned in the first place. I had some ideas I thought could make delistment a more serious matter and the hope is that community owners wouldn't be so quick to break the rules that can result in a delistment. Here are just a few of the ideas: 1. Banning or disabling the steam accounts of community owners who are repeat offenders. 2. Doing a check on the favorites list. Query to see if the server is banned. If it is, do not return the server. 3. Disable the Steam Group of communities who are delisted for the duration of their delistment. This will prevent the group owner or officers from pointing the members to a new group or updating the IP addresses in the profile to new servers and no more events. Right now, banned servers can sustain players just by posting events. Some of the more popular groups have upwards of 100k members. This also reminded me why allowing hostnames in the favorites list wouldn't be a good idea. Banned communities could easily route users to their new servers if the favorites list allowed hostnames. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
That's what I understand him saying, just more so when they use ads in addition to fake clients, since there they're making money off the deceit. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com -Original Message- From: Todd Pettit Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:45 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Anyone with problems with ads on gaming servers have no idea how much time / effort / money it takes to keep the servers running well. I know for a fact without ads I would be paying 90% of the cost for my servers and yet I have people who repeatedly say I love your servers and yet they still don't donate. On 8/10/2012 2:45 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
+1 On 10 August 2012 22:49, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Anyone with problems with ads on gaming servers have no idea how much time / effort / money it takes to keep the servers running well. I know for a fact without ads I would be paying 90% of the cost for my servers and yet I have people who repeatedly say I love your servers and yet they still don't donate. On 8/10/2012 2:45 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I am highly against these ads. They are being forced upon users and can play in the background. They can crash clients, be forced to open twice or anytime in the game. They are also displayed after the motd. The coders that are making these are simply paid to get it done. My players would never stand for such poor quality servers. You should be ashamed. Also. I think delisted servers should lose their steam group as well. The blow would be much harder. Maybe they will think twice. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Please be aware that we're talking about ads that are one-time MOTD ads. I also disagree with ads that play after team selection. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com -Original Message- From: DontWannaName! Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:52 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Cc: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? I am highly against these ads. They are being forced upon users and can play in the background. They can crash clients, be forced to open twice or anytime in the game. They are also displayed after the motd. The coders that are making these are simply paid to get it done. My players would never stand for such poor quality servers. You should be ashamed. Also. I think delisted servers should lose their steam group as well. The blow would be much harder. Maybe they will think twice. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I actually have an issue with ads. I don't use them at all but i do know how much time, effort and money it takes to keep servers running and people happy playing on the servers with ~8 years of experience. Yes, i'm paying 100% of the servers, these days with a help of couple admins that offered to help out of their own will. People won't donate if they don't want to. Thats just the way it is and you need to throw money in if they don't or stop running servers. -ics 11.8.2012 0:49, Cameron Munroe kirjoitti: Anyone with problems with ads on gaming servers have no idea how much time / effort / money it takes to keep the servers running well. I know for a fact without ads I would be paying 90% of the cost for my servers and yet I have people who repeatedly say I love your servers and yet they still don't donate. On 8/10/2012 2:45 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Please don't make this about advertisements. It's not about ads. Our servers utilize pinion in the MOTD. It's fine. (Though I will admit to being slightly annoyed with multiple ads from various providers being placed in MOTD) And yes, ads that get spammed to you at any other point in the game I have a problem with (Mods that make the MOTD redisplay, for example) The problem is, as McKay said, servers who benefit from ad views by deceit. *BUT* * * This isn't what this post is about. This is about stricter punishments for delistings. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I'm simply talking about good ads, only once in the motd, and nothing else. On 8/10/2012 2:52 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: I am highly against these ads. They are being forced upon users and can play in the background. They can crash clients, be forced to open twice or anytime in the game. They are also displayed after the motd. The coders that are making these are simply paid to get it done. My players would never stand for such poor quality servers. You should be ashamed. Also. I think delisted servers should lose their steam group as well. The blow would be much harder. Maybe they will think twice. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Have to say if you are that annoyed why not disable HTML motd? On 10 August 2012 23:01, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: I'm simply talking about good ads, only once in the motd, and nothing else. On 8/10/2012 2:52 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: I am highly against these ads. They are being forced upon users and can play in the background. They can crash clients, be forced to open twice or anytime in the game. They are also displayed after the motd. The coders that are making these are simply paid to get it done. My players would never stand for such poor quality servers. You should be ashamed. Also. I think delisted servers should lose their steam group as well. The blow would be much harder. Maybe they will think twice. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Okay, let's get back on topic, please. Advertisements are fine. I know a lot of server ops rely on them, I do too. Getting back to my ideas. I think it's a little too easy for established communities, big communities with say, over 50k+ member (Which were probably auto-invited) to get around delisting. I mean where is the punishment, really? If you have so many regulars already who you are tricking with fake clients and so many people have you favorited what does delisting really do? New QuickPlay ID and a new IP and your score will be right back up there. This kind of thing requires Valve to continually monitor it. Server operators who get delisted and immediately throw their servers back up with new IDs and Quickplay IDs should be further punished for it. It's no different than cheating only it's done at the server level. Cheats modify or manipulate data in a way Valve didn't intend on the client side. These server operators modify or manipulate data on the server side that goes against the Valve policy of truth. I see it no different. They're cheating the system on the server end and there should be more permanence to the punishments and stricter punishments in general, especially for repeat offenders. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Just to clarify, I'm not annoyed, I depend on it to help me out. Otherwise as stated before I would be taking most if not all of the burden for the servers. Not to mention people want stuff for there donation. Which then leads to actions like giving out more health, unlimited ammo, immunity, longer ubers, faster speeds, etc. Which no regular player likes. I for one am now trying to slowly remove all donator functionality and go 100% ads so that everyone is equal and on a fair playing field. On 8/10/2012 3:03 PM, Nomaan Ahmad wrote: Have to say if you are that annoyed why not disable HTML motd? On 10 August 2012 23:01, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: I'm simply talking about good ads, only once in the motd, and nothing else. On 8/10/2012 2:52 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: I am highly against these ads. They are being forced upon users and can play in the background. They can crash clients, be forced to open twice or anytime in the game. They are also displayed after the motd. The coders that are making these are simply paid to get it done. My players would never stand for such poor quality servers. You should be ashamed. Also. I think delisted servers should lose their steam group as well. The blow would be much harder. Maybe they will think twice. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com mailto:kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
The ads make 1.50$ per 1000 views with Pinion which is what most use. My 4 servers (only one uses quickplay and it doesn't get that many players) get an average of 2250 hits per day. With just the Deathrun server we get around 1500 and Gametracker says that has an average of 18 players the past month. When I look in game I usually see 20-32 players. That's one server. Some clans like Lotus have 90 servers according to Gamemonitor. For some rough math let's say 750 views per server per day on average between all the servers (It's probably higher). That makes 101$ a day That's 3030$ a month. The servers are probably hosted on dedicated servers and not a host so let's say 130$ a month for 6 servers (I don't know that much about dedi pricing, to specs to servers, so correct me if I'm wrong). That's 1950$ a month for servers. That leaves 1080$ from ads a month, then the ridiculous amount money from the donations they get between all 90 servers.These clans make a LOT of money off of exploiting the system. Lotus charges 10$ a month for donator on all 90 servers. Between all 90 servers, 3.8 million tracked players by GameME, and 1901 slots, let's say 500 donators. That's another 5000$ a month I personally think Valve should do something major about it. These numbers are the reason these clans don't care GameMe says they have 104 servers but I don't feel like redoing my math. Just take the total and add 100$ or so onto it *I'm not anti-ad or anti-HTML MOTD, as long as it's to support the server.* The ads are the reason many communities survive at this point, *including mine*. When the owners of these exploiting communities are making 6000$ a month for their own personal gain off of exploiting a free game, I get mad. Just a note, this math is rough estimates based off of what I know. This math could be low, high, or even correct. I didn't feel like going through 90 gametracker pages looking at the stats. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Doctor McKay li...@doctormckay.com wrote: That's what I understand him saying, just more so when they use ads in addition to fake clients, since there they're making money off the deceit. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com -Original Message- From: Todd Pettit Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:45 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Just to make it clear, my ads are MOTD ads that they can close down and that stop playing once they select a team. I did my math off of just those, not including any other forms of ads. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: The ads make 1.50$ per 1000 views with Pinion which is what most use. My 4 servers (only one uses quickplay and it doesn't get that many players) get an average of 2250 hits per day. With just the Deathrun server we get around 1500 and Gametracker says that has an average of 18 players the past month. When I look in game I usually see 20-32 players. That's one server. Some clans like Lotus have 90 servers according to Gamemonitor. For some rough math let's say 750 views per server per day on average between all the servers (It's probably higher). That makes 101$ a day That's 3030$ a month. The servers are probably hosted on dedicated servers and not a host so let's say 130$ a month for 6 servers (I don't know that much about dedi pricing, to specs to servers, so correct me if I'm wrong). That's 1950$ a month for servers. That leaves 1080$ from ads a month, then the ridiculous amount money from the donations they get between all 90 servers.These clans make a LOT of money off of exploiting the system. Lotus charges 10$ a month for donator on all 90 servers. Between all 90 servers, 3.8 million tracked players by GameME, and 1901 slots, let's say 500 donators. That's another 5000$ a month I personally think Valve should do something major about it. These numbers are the reason these clans don't care GameMe says they have 104 servers but I don't feel like redoing my math. Just take the total and add 100$ or so onto it *I'm not anti-ad or anti-HTML MOTD, as long as it's to support the server. * The ads are the reason many communities survive at this point, *including mine*. When the owners of these exploiting communities are making 6000$ a month for their own personal gain off of exploiting a free game, I get mad. Just a note, this math is rough estimates based off of what I know. This math could be low, high, or even correct. I didn't feel like going through 90 gametracker pages looking at the stats. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Doctor McKay li...@doctormckay.com wrote: That's what I understand him saying, just more so when they use ads in addition to fake clients, since there they're making money off the deceit. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com -Original Message- From: Todd Pettit Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:45 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? *Please*? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
+1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? *Please*? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Off topic: I really wish we would create a separate mailing list for all the quickplay/tattle-tale BS. These discussions never used to clog up the list before quickplay existed. On topic: As far as the original topic- servers being delisted yet still being playable by their memberswhy not? Why on earth are people on this list so concerned about what other people are doing? I have 20 full servers right now, none of which are using quickplay at the moment (and we've never used any of that other nefarious BS)...which means all these big, bad server operators aren't affecting my traffic one bit, right? I've got news for ya - if you can't fill your servers on a regular basis (without quickplay), Valve dumping all the bad operators on the planet won't help you one bit (of course, plastering ads on a game server is a sure way to turn off potential long-term players in the first place). On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: Just to make it clear, my ads are MOTD ads that they can close down and that stop playing once they select a team. I did my math off of just those, not including any other forms of ads. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: The ads make 1.50$ per 1000 views with Pinion which is what most use. My 4 servers (only one uses quickplay and it doesn't get that many players) get an average of 2250 hits per day. With just the Deathrun server we get around 1500 and Gametracker says that has an average of 18 players the past month. When I look in game I usually see 20-32 players. That's one server. Some clans like Lotus have 90 servers according to Gamemonitor. For some rough math let's say 750 views per server per day on average between all the servers (It's probably higher). That makes 101$ a day That's 3030$ a month. The servers are probably hosted on dedicated servers and not a host so let's say 130$ a month for 6 servers (I don't know that much about dedi pricing, to specs to servers, so correct me if I'm wrong). That's 1950$ a month for servers. That leaves 1080$ from ads a month, then the ridiculous amount money from the donations they get between all 90 servers.These clans make a LOT of money off of exploiting the system. Lotus charges 10$ a month for donator on all 90 servers. Between all 90 servers, 3.8 million tracked players by GameME, and 1901 slots, let's say 500 donators. That's another 5000$ a month I personally think Valve should do something major about it. These numbers are the reason these clans don't care GameMe says they have 104 servers but I don't feel like redoing my math. Just take the total and add 100$ or so onto it *I'm not anti-ad or anti-HTML MOTD, as long as it's to support the server.* The ads are the reason many communities survive at this point, *including mine*. When the owners of these exploiting communities are making 6000$ a month for their own personal gain off of exploiting a free game, I get mad. Just a note, this math is rough estimates based off of what I know. This math could be low, high, or even correct. I didn't feel like going through 90 gametracker pages looking at the stats. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Doctor McKay li...@doctormckay.com wrote: That's what I understand him saying, just more so when they use ads in addition to fake clients, since there they're making money off the deceit. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com -Original Message- From: Todd Pettit Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:45 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
The motd was never suppose to be for ads. It's a screen to show your players your site, rules news etc. not a giant ad video. Your losing out with the ad in the end. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: +1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? Please? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Then how do you pay for your servers? If there is a better way I would love it. On 8/10/2012 3:34 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The motd was never suppose to be for ads. It's a screen to show your players your site, rules news etc. not a giant ad video. Your losing out with the ad in the end. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: +1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? *Please*? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I didn't use ads until I didn't get enough donations despite the player counts. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.comwrote: Then how do you pay for your servers? If there is a better way I would love it. On 8/10/2012 3:34 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The motd was never suppose to be for ads. It's a screen to show your players your site, rules news etc. not a giant ad video. Your losing out with the ad in the end. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: +1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? *Please*? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
The time-tested way - by small donations from a member base that care about the servers. We're on our 5th year, and we've never run a single ad on our site or our servers. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.comwrote: Then how do you pay for your servers? If there is a better way I would love it. On 8/10/2012 3:34 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The motd was never suppose to be for ads. It's a screen to show your players your site, rules news etc. not a giant ad video. Your losing out with the ad in the end. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: +1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? *Please*? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Sadly my generation of players can't. Most are 15. On 8/10/2012 3:37 PM, E. Olsen wrote: The time-tested way - by small donations from a member base that care about the servers. We're on our 5th year, and we've never run a single ad on our site or our servers. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Then how do you pay for your servers? If there is a better way I would love it. On 8/10/2012 3:34 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The motd was never suppose to be for ads. It's a screen to show your players your site, rules news etc. not a giant ad video. Your losing out with the ad in the end. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: +1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? *Please*? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Olsen, the title of this post should make it very clear what the gripe is about. I'm happy you have successful servers and those who have a problem with other server operators doing these sorts of things doesn't mean they have empty servers of their own. Not everyone is indifferent to the malicious crap other server owners do just because they have their own servers filled. You suggest we ignore other communities and focus on our own. Why can't a server operator run successful servers *and *work to keep abusive communities off the list? I'd bet a majority of the free to play players don't even realize what fake clients are. Server operators are the ones who realize what is going on with some of these communities and a little self policing shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure why this bothers you so much. You make it seem like every server operator should be indifferent to it and work on their own communities. I'd recommend you take a similar bit of advice and ignore these kinds of posts if they bother you so much. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Just a few thoughts to a few people in this conversation. No one wants to hear about your constant bragging that lunar republic has a server that has 1500 hits per day on a single server. That server is in the top 98% of servers which means 98% of people aren't going to get that many people. Your community has 3 other servers which means they have a pitiful 250 hits per day between them which is more likely the norm. If you can survive without ads, good for you. But we don't want to rely on the random chance 1 or 2 wealthy members decide they are tired of TF2 and we can't foot the bill for a month. If Valve dislikes pay-to-win servers, they should fix HTML motds crashes so the temptation to go pay-to-win is diminished. It also crashes on non-advertisement pages that use javascript. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: The ads make 1.50$ per 1000 views with Pinion which is what most use. My 4 servers (only one uses quickplay and it doesn't get that many players) get an average of 2250 hits per day. With just the Deathrun server we get around 1500 and Gametracker says that has an average of 18 players the past month. When I look in game I usually see 20-32 players. That's one server. Some clans like Lotus have 90 servers according to Gamemonitor. For some rough math let's say 750 views per server per day on average between all the servers (It's probably higher). That makes 101$ a day That's 3030$ a month. The servers are probably hosted on dedicated servers and not a host so let's say 130$ a month for 6 servers (I don't know that much about dedi pricing, to specs to servers, so correct me if I'm wrong). That's 1950$ a month for servers. That leaves 1080$ from ads a month, then the ridiculous amount money from the donations they get between all 90 servers.These clans make a LOT of money off of exploiting the system. Lotus charges 10$ a month for donator on all 90 servers. Between all 90 servers, 3.8 million tracked players by GameME, and 1901 slots, let's say 500 donators. That's another 5000$ a month I personally think Valve should do something major about it. These numbers are the reason these clans don't care GameMe says they have 104 servers but I don't feel like redoing my math. Just take the total and add 100$ or so onto it I'm not anti-ad or anti-HTML MOTD, as long as it's to support the server. The ads are the reason many communities survive at this point, including mine. When the owners of these exploiting communities are making 6000$ a month for their own personal gain off of exploiting a free game, I get mad. Just a note, this math is rough estimates based off of what I know. This math could be low, high, or even correct. I didn't feel like going through 90 gametracker pages looking at the stats. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Doctor McKay li...@doctormckay.com wrote: That's what I understand him saying, just more so when they use ads in addition to fake clients, since there they're making money off the deceit. Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com -Original Message- From: Todd Pettit Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:45 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? So your problem is with fake clients not Ads, correct? - Original Message - From: Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:38:26 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Please don't misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with ads either. My servers run them. I have a problem with a community that fools the system in to sending players to their servers for their views. This can be abused all hours of the day and night. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I'm funded 100 percent through donations. Not one dime out of pocket. When will you guys learn that you don't need ads, fake clients and cheating to get players. Are there any legit communities out there left? Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Then how do you pay for your servers? If there is a better way I would love it. On 8/10/2012 3:34 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The motd was never suppose to be for ads. It's a screen to show your players your site, rules news etc. not a giant ad video. Your losing out with the ad in the end. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: +1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? Please? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
As I stated before most of my players are below 15 years and can't access either paypal, or don't have the money so I can't run off donations. I just simply can't. On 8/10/2012 4:00 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: I'm funded 100 percent through donations. Not one dime out of pocket. When will you guys learn that you don't need ads, fake clients and cheating to get players. Are there any legit communities out there left? Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Then how do you pay for your servers? If there is a better way I would love it. On 8/10/2012 3:34 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The motd was never suppose to be for ads. It's a screen to show your players your site, rules news etc. not a giant ad video. Your losing out with the ad in the end. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: +1, aggreed if a community become successful enough to make a profit, all too them. However exploitation by using a system that draws players into a fly trap just for an impression is purely wrong and I think that this should be brought up to the ad company to remove there ad account. On 8/10/2012 3:16 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: If communities want to make or can make money off of donations and ads I have no problem with it. They're providing game play servers for us to play on and if they profit, they profit. It also takes considerable time to manage that many servers. The problem are these owners who throw their servers up, constantly redisplay advertisements and use fake clients. But once again, for the fourth time, this isn't about advertisements, can we please stop making it about advertisements? *Please*? This is about addressing the ease with which abusive communities can get around server delistings if they're well established. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
DontWannaName, It's good that you are and I'd prefer to run a server ad free, myself. However, donations right now do not cover server costs and therefore we run MOTD ads that display one time. We do not punish players who disable HTML MOTD as some servers do and we never redisplay the ads. They also stop playing the moment you hit Continue and pick a team. There is nothing wrong with a server that chooses to do this. The abuse of MOTD mid-round, tricking players onto your server.. That kind of thing is what's wrong in my opinion. Anyway, we're getting sidetracked again :P ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Sadly, that seems to be why this thread keeps becoming so hot on the list. Half of communities against the other half. Though your point still stands. Valve give us something like were not going to do anything about it or something as I'm frankly tired of this just coming up every two weeks and then nothing getting done. Just a conversation that never ends. On 8/10/2012 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Though half or more of the _*legitimate*_ servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
That is exactly what happened to my community. We got through a few months off of donations, but less and less people started donating and we had to turn to ads. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.comwrote: Though half or more of the *legitimate* servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Out of curiosity, how many servers are you running for these 15 year olds that this is such a necessity? On 10.08.2012 16:03, Cameron Munroe wrote: As I stated before most of my players are below 15 years and can't access either paypal, or don't have the money so I can't run off donations. I just simply can't. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the legitimate servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Im confused by your question, are you asking how many servers do I run for less then 15 year olds, or how many servers I run? On 8/10/2012 4:16 PM, Russell Smith wrote: Out of curiosity, how many servers are you running for these 15 year olds that this is such a necessity? On 10.08.2012 16:03, Cameron Munroe wrote: As I stated before most of my players are below 15 years and can't access either paypal, or don't have the money so I can't run off donations. I just simply can't. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Your statement is false as already proved early by someone talking about lotusclan. You can make enough money via ads to at least pay for the bills if you are setup correctly. On 8/10/2012 4:19 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the _*legitimate*_ servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogerskritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Agreed fully with your second point DWN but as to the first point, that's not true at all. We run MOTD on initial connection only (When you normally see the MOTD) and 100% cover the server cost off of pinion alone. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
How many servers do you run? On 10.08.2012 16:20, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im confused by your question, are you asking how many servers do I run for less then 15 year olds, or how many servers I run? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Hey... A kids gotta get his fix. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Out of curiosity, how many servers are you running for these 15 year olds that this is such a necessity? On 10.08.2012 16:03, Cameron Munroe wrote: As I stated before most of my players are below 15 years and can't access either paypal, or don't have the money so I can't run off donations. I just simply can't. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
11 On 8/10/2012 4:23 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How many servers do you run? On 10.08.2012 16:20, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im confused by your question, are you asking how many servers do I run for less then 15 year olds, or how many servers I run? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
My community does this as well and it supports it 100% off of Pinion. Pinion is actually now starting a game hosting company that runs ads on your MOTD, and you only pay if the ads don't make enough. Even then, you just pay the difference. It's an ingenious idea, but it's off topic, so let's not get into that one right now. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.comwrote: Agreed fully with your second point DWN but as to the first point, that's not true at all. We run MOTD on initial connection only (When you normally see the MOTD) and 100% cover the server cost off of pinion alone. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Maybe a single ran server. Those are cheap. Maybe 15 bucks for 32 slots. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Your statement is false as already proved early by someone talking about lotusclan. You can make enough money via ads to at least pay for the bills if you are setup correctly. On 8/10/2012 4:19 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the legitimate servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
A dedicated server that is running 4 game servers, to be exact. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Pinion should tell its ad providers that no one actually watches the ad and that a view is considered less than a second. It's a failed idea in my opinion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: My community does this as well and it supports it 100% off of Pinion. Pinion is actually now starting a game hosting company that runs ads on your MOTD, and you only pay if the ads don't make enough. Even then, you just pay the difference. It's an ingenious idea, but it's off topic, so let's not get into that one right now. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed fully with your second point DWN but as to the first point, that's not true at all. We run MOTD on initial connection only (When you normally see the MOTD) and 100% cover the server cost off of pinion alone. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
What host hosts 15$ for 32 slots? Most hosts I see are charging 1$ a slot monthly with multi month discounts. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:25 PM, DontWannaName! ad...@topnotchclan.comwrote: Maybe a single ran server. Those are cheap. Maybe 15 bucks for 32 slots. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Your statement is false as already proved early by someone talking about lotusclan. You can make enough money via ads to at least pay for the bills if you are setup correctly. On 8/10/2012 4:19 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the *legitimate* servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Whoops, Hosts 32 slots for 15$ is what I meant. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: What host hosts 15$ for 32 slots? Most hosts I see are charging 1$ a slot monthly with multi month discounts. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:25 PM, DontWannaName! ad...@topnotchclan.comwrote: Maybe a single ran server. Those are cheap. Maybe 15 bucks for 32 slots. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Your statement is false as already proved early by someone talking about lotusclan. You can make enough money via ads to at least pay for the bills if you are setup correctly. On 8/10/2012 4:19 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the *legitimate* servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Actually most of my server if not all are below 27. I try and keep the game servers very very unlaggy therefore no 32. The servers do pay for themselves at least in my case. On 8/10/2012 4:25 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Maybe a single ran server. Those are cheap. Maybe 15 bucks for 32 slots. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Your statement is false as already proved early by someone talking about lotusclan. You can make enough money via ads to at least pay for the bills if you are setup correctly. On 8/10/2012 4:19 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com mailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the _*legitimate*_ servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogerskritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Do you feel like you've overextended your budget and that's why you're running ads in the motd? I'm just curious. I run servers as a hobby and so I only currently run a modest 2 TF2 servers. I've never run ads or even asked for donations from players, though I have got a few from players approaching me to ask if they can help out with costs. On 10.08.2012 16:24, Cameron Munroe wrote: 11 On 8/10/2012 4:23 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How many servers do you run? On 10.08.2012 16:20, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im confused by your question, are you asking how many servers do I run for less then 15 year olds, or how many servers I run? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I think all ad providers know that, but there is still many chances that I have seen and I have even watched an ad if it got my attention. On 8/10/2012 4:27 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Pinion should tell its ad providers that no one actually watches the ad and that a view is considered less than a second. It's a failed idea in my opinion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com mailto:smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com wrote: My community does this as well and it supports it 100% off of Pinion. Pinion is actually now starting a game hosting company that runs ads on your MOTD, and you only pay if the ads don't make enough. Even then, you just pay the difference. It's an ingenious idea, but it's off topic, so let's not get into that one right now. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com mailto:kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed fully with your second point DWN but as to the first point, that's not true at all. We run MOTD on initial connection only (When you normally see the MOTD) and 100% cover the server cost off of pinion alone. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
So, essentially what some of you are asking for is that is a server operator gets delisted for any reason - even if it is a temporary punishment - they should pretty much have their community killed off as well? Seems pretty drastic, folks. While I'm all for delisting the folks Valve has in the past that are using redirect, fake clients, etc. etcthere's nothing wrong with a warning to get someone's attention (I'm sure most of you use temp bans as well as perma bans, right?). In any case - I wonder if we would even be having this discussion anymore if quickplay did not exist? Without quickplay, most of these large commercial outfits would not exist, as there is no way users would flock to servers plastered with ads on a regular basis. I'd personally like to see the effect of valve just turning quickplay off for 90 days or so for everyone. Those operators that actually do some traffic building would do fine - those guys using cheats/tricks to lure quickplay players would be ghost towns. Here's an idea - how about Valve disable quickplay for servers that use HTML MOTD's? That would eliminate alot of the abuse by preventing ads on quiickplay-enabled servers, right? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.comwrote: Agreed fully with your second point DWN but as to the first point, that's not true at all. We run MOTD on initial connection only (When you normally see the MOTD) and 100% cover the server cost off of pinion alone. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. On 8/10/2012 4:29 PM, Russell Smith wrote: Do you feel like you've overextended your budget and that's why you're running ads in the motd? I'm just curious. I run servers as a hobby and so I only currently run a modest 2 TF2 servers. I've never run ads or even asked for donations from players, though I have got a few from players approaching me to ask if they can help out with costs. On 10.08.2012 16:24, Cameron Munroe wrote: 11 On 8/10/2012 4:23 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How many servers do you run? On 10.08.2012 16:20, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im confused by your question, are you asking how many servers do I run for less then 15 year olds, or how many servers I run? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Off topic: I think Valve should set up a server discussion mailing list that this kind of stuff could go into. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.uswrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. On 8/10/2012 4:29 PM, Russell Smith wrote: Do you feel like you've overextended your budget and that's why you're running ads in the motd? I'm just curious. I run servers as a hobby and so I only currently run a modest 2 TF2 servers. I've never run ads or even asked for donations from players, though I have got a few from players approaching me to ask if they can help out with costs. On 10.08.2012 16:24, Cameron Munroe wrote: 11 On 8/10/2012 4:23 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How many servers do you run? On 10.08.2012 16:20, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im confused by your question, are you asking how many servers do I run for less then 15 year olds, or how many servers I run? __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I have never agreed more. I have gotten 32 emails to my phone in the past 15 minutes. Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. -Original Message- From: Daniel Barreiro smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com Sender: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 19:34:46 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing listhlds@list.valvesoftware.com Reply-To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. On 8/10/2012 4:29 PM, Russell Smith wrote: Do you feel like you've overextended your budget and that's why you're running ads in the motd? I'm just curious. I run servers as a hobby and so I only currently run a modest 2 TF2 servers. I've never run ads or even asked for donations from players, though I have got a few from players approaching me to ask if they can help out with costs. On 10.08.2012 16:24, Cameron Munroe wrote: 11 On 8/10/2012 4:23 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How many servers do you run? On 10.08.2012 16:20, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im confused by your question, are you asking how many servers do I run for less then 15 year olds, or how many servers I run? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Olsen, the warning sent by a delisting should be enough to a community breaking a rule but not willing to suffer the consequences but these consequences mostly affect a smaller community. What should Valve do to a community that can quickly get around this punishment via a new Quickplay ID and a new IP address? I'll tell you who wins that cat and mouse game and it's not Valve. There needs to be more permanence in the punishment for servers that don't take the hint when delisted. That's all I'm saying. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Oh that's sweet Russel :) I didn't either. The more you get caught in the more you end up like just another McDonalds. Iv seen a lot since I started running servers 6 years ago, these types of ads are new and are being abused. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
You can't say whether a statement is false or not based on random assumptions by someone who isn't even part of that community or has access to any real stats. Everyone's situation/setup is different. Servers that go through lots of players will make more from ads then servers that keep players playing longer. Can you really say that a server will get 750+ views a day? No, you can't. However this topic is not about communities that never got delisted (like Lotus) using ads. But rather about those that are being delisted and keep coming back with new ips doing the same thing again (and successfully). On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.comwrote: Your statement is false as already proved early by someone talking about lotusclan. You can make enough money via ads to at least pay for the bills if you are setup correctly. On 8/10/2012 4:19 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the *legitimate* servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Im sure valve would look into such claims if you reported them. They usually respond. On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:02 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote: You can't say whether a statement is false or not based on random assumptions by someone who isn't even part of that community or has access to any real stats. Everyone's situation/setup is different. Servers that go through lots of players will make more from ads then servers that keep players playing longer. Can you really say that a server will get 750+ views a day? No, you can't. However this topic is not about communities that never got delisted (like Lotus) using ads. But rather about those that are being delisted and keep coming back with new ips doing the same thing again (and successfully). On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Your statement is false as already proved early by someone talking about lotusclan. You can make enough money via ads to at least pay for the bills if you are setup correctly. On 8/10/2012 4:19 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: The ads unless ran abusively will not provide enough money to keep a server online. It may supplement the bill but won't pay it all. Something should be done to stop abusive ads. I also think delisted servers should lose their steam group since it would ruin their ability to leverage past users to mitigate the after effect of their ban. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.com wrote: Though half or more of the legitimate servers also run Ads. So the fact still remains that some servers are breaking the rules. If valve killed ads then good bye community after community. Frankly the world is in a recession and people are more and more into keeping there money in their pockets. So server owners have gone to a new idea called ads to support themselves. On 8/10/2012 4:11 PM, DontWannaName! wrote: Ads are pretty relevant to what these servers are doing. Most delisted servers so far have also ran these motds in a modified fashion. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: The point is that at the moment advertisements aren't really breaking any Valve policy. This thread is about more effective ways to handle abusive communities through delisting. Can we stop shifting the focus to advertisements? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Maybe I redirected my spat at the wrong person Russell, but as you can tell, I am slowly getting attacked because I use an ad to keep my servers up. The reason I made my servers was because of lotus which I have repeated way too many times already, but I did it is because the donator system at lotus gave donators a semi-admin powers which is why I also went more and more to ads instead of donators. Pretty much any donator if they wanted a friend in the server immediately started a vote to kick a player. They also muted people simply because the person was young. So when asked can I buy admin for my servers I have repeatedly stated No because I know it will lead to abuse, which I don't want. On 2012-08-10 16:54, DontWannaName! wrote: Oh that's sweet Russel :) I didn't either. The more you get caught in the more you end up like just another McDonalds. Iv seen a lot since I started running servers 6 years ago, these types of ads are new and are being abused. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- -- Cameron Munroe http://www.cameronmunroe.com/ http://www.munroenet.com/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Also I appologize Russel, just a little upset today. Work, servers, and mailing list getting to me. On Aug 10, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Cameron Munroe wrote: Maybe I redirected my spat at the wrong person Russell, but as you can tell, I am slowly getting attacked because I use an ad to keep my servers up. The reason I made my servers was because of lotus which I have repeated way too many times already, but I did it is because the donator system at lotus gave donators a semi-admin powers which is why I also went more and more to ads instead of donators. Pretty much any donator if they wanted a friend in the server immediately started a vote to kick a player. They also muted people simply because the person was young. So when asked can I buy admin for my servers I have repeatedly stated No because I know it will lead to abuse, which I don't want. On 2012-08-10 16:54, DontWannaName! wrote: Oh that's sweet Russel :) I didn't either. The more you get caught in the more you end up like just another McDonalds. Iv seen a lot since I started running servers 6 years ago, these types of ads are new and are being abused. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I am just curious what would bring you to the decision of setting up ads in the motd. Is your goal to try and grow your community to the size of Lotus? Before I set up my servers I played on DWN's servers and modeled mine after his. I didn't even know ads in the motd were a thing until this thread. On 10.08.2012 16:38, Cameron Munroe wrote: Im going off on your topic since you seem to be attacking me. Lets talk about donations then. I used to play on lotusclan which had heavy amounts of donators. These donators were pretty much given semi admin rights on the servers where they could do what ever the hell they wanted and no one could do anything about it. I left and built my own servers because of lotusclan and the fact that donators were harming players that were fun, and enjoyable to have on the server. A successful [Owner]: provide an enviorment where any player, can join and have fun without fearing segregation because of age, race, location, or ethnicity. On 8/10/2012 4:33 PM, Russell Smith wrote: How do you define being a successful admin? On 10.08.2012 16:31, Cameron Munroe wrote: Actually I don't. The way I have come to slowly realize is that people weren't going to donate in my bracket of players. i.e. the Free to Play Generation. For me to be successful I need servers with MOTDs. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- -- Cameron Munroe http://www.cameronmunroe.com/ http://www.munroenet.com/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
This is a horrible idea. The abuse here is **NOT** HTML MOTDs or ads. The abuse is fake players. Can we stay on topic please? Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com From: E. Olsen Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 7:31 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Here's an idea - how about Valve disable quickplay for servers that use HTML MOTD's? That would eliminate alot of the abuse by preventing ads on quiickplay-enabled servers, right? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed fully with your second point DWN but as to the first point, that's not true at all. We run MOTD on initial connection only (When you normally see the MOTD) and 100% cover the server cost off of pinion alone. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
I second that. If you do that. Have playing on Valve only servers. - Original Message - From: Doctor McKay li...@doctormckay.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 8:28:37 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? This is a horrible idea. The abuse here is **NOT** HTML MOTDs or ads. The abuse is fake players. Can we stay on topic please? Dr. McKay http://www.doctormckay.com From: E. Olsen Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 7:31 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? Here's an idea - how about Valve disable quickplay for servers that use HTML MOTD's? That would eliminate alot of the abuse by preventing ads on quiickplay-enabled servers, right? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Sampson Rogers kritskring...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed fully with your second point DWN but as to the first point, that's not true at all. We run MOTD on initial connection only (When you normally see the MOTD) and 100% cover the server cost off of pinion alone. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes?
Yeah DWN I've reported the server and they've responded. They are, as you said, pretty good about responding to reports. It's just a little concerning that such servers can mitigate the consequences by swapping IPs and Quickplay IDs. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
