from:"No No"



 You as the guy who took the place as the list moderator(since you came up
 with
 those rules) are actually very responsible in taking and maintaining a very
 polite role!

Since when are polite responses required in response to decidedly NON-polite
posts?

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

RE: PB News




You 
wonder if Valve made any money when CS went retail? Hehehe...has there 
ever been any doubt?

Eric (the Deacon remix)http://www.firekite.com 


  -Original Message-From: Aillaud Niels 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 
  2001 2:07 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: 
  PB News
  yes 
  but the cost was passed over to the customer.
  It 
  mightbe harder for valve to sell this "new" anti cheat solution to 
  current users.
  Actually I am wondering if Valve made any money with the commercial CT 
  . It might explain why they(for the time being) refuse to buck for 
  PB.
  
  It 
  is another blow to the CT community. I am going to miss PB. I can t play on a 
  nonPB game without thinking every second:
   
  - Is he that good or is he cheating? I spend way too much time trying to 
  figure if he is cheating and how he is doing it.
  it 
  is a sad day today.
  
-Message d'origine-De: steve johnson 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Envoyé: mardi 25 septembre 
2001 20:46À: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Objet: Re: PB 
News
And they deserved it just as CounterStrike Team 
did

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Aillaud Niels 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 
  11:35 AM
  Subject: RE: PB News
  
  To echo what Mark Moran said..
  (Yes PB was probably asking money to continue working on 
  CS/HL)
  
  -Message d'origine-
  De : Mark Moran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Envoyé : mardi 25 septembre 2001 18:40
  À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Objet : RE: PB no more.
  
  
  I think if you read the news REAL close. They 'offered to do 
  business
  with'.. Me thinks the punkbuster people don't want to work for 
  free
  anymore. I've approached Valve about 'doing business with' me for 
  running a
  free server. They've turned me down too. (Removing tongue from 
  cheek.)
  I'm a little disappointed.
  
-Message d'origine-De: Richard C. Ryzner 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Envoyé: mardi 25 
septembre 2001 18:44À: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Objet: Re: PB 
News
I'm very sorry to hear this. With all the 
hacks out there PB is the only way to keep some of the less learned 
cheaters out of some servers. Unfortunatly there are so many cracks that 
bypass PB at this point, even ona PB required server there is 
usually at least one or two cheating. My big question at this point is 
why Valve isnt working with them. I realize we dont have all the 
information as to how it would be for Valve, legally etc. But I think 
that a reply from valve as to why would be nice.
Rick

RE: PB no more.....



I can't express my frustration with this latest development of PB's involvement
in the HL community, so I won't try.  I *would*, however, dearly love to hear an
official explanation from Valve as to what exactly the deal is...  Was Tony
being unreasonable somehow?  Does Valve have something similar already in the
works?  Do they just not think it's that big of a deal?  Is TF2 being cancelled,
so they're not really worried about the future?  What?

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com


 -Original Message-
 From: Sysop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:29 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: PB no more.



 So what are the chances of getting an official comment by valve on why PB
 and Valve couldn't work together on a integrated solution?  PB has pulled
 the plug on HL/CS because of (they say) lack of participation by Valve.  I
 would like to hear Valve's side of the story, as to why we are loosing
 something that could have REALLY improved the quality of the game...

 
 Revenge is a dish best served Colt...

RE: PB News

2001-09-25 Thread Ryan McCullough




I know 
what you mean. I ask this question more and more now that the new hitboxes have 
muddied the waters further. It gets frustrating when you can sit there and get 
15 bullets into the guy with a rifle, he shoots 2 at you with mp5 and you lose. 
It is a crock. Another thing, has anyone heard of the scripts that supposedly 
make you laggier and thus harder to hit? I have heard of these, but was 
wondering if they exist and what they look like. One of the guys I play with 
regularly has a ping of around 200 which is high, but not that high. When 
watching him, he is really jumpy. Like the jumpy of a 400ping player. I suspect, 
but have no proof. Anyone know any symptons or had experience with this? 
Thanks

  -Original Message-From: Aillaud Niels 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 
  2001 12:07 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: 
  PB News
  yes 
  but the cost was passed over to the customer.
  It 
  mightbe harder for valve to sell this "new" anti cheat solution to 
  current users.
  Actually I am wondering if Valve made any money with the commercial CT 
  . It might explain why they(for the time being) refuse to buck for 
  PB.
  
  It 
  is another blow to the CT community. I am going to miss PB. I can t play on a 
  nonPB game without thinking every second:
   
  - Is he that good or is he cheating? I spend way too much time trying to 
  figure if he is cheating and how he is doing it.
  it 
  is a sad day today.
  
-Message d'origine-De: steve johnson 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Envoyé: mardi 25 septembre 
2001 20:46À: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Objet: Re: PB 
News
And they deserved it just as CounterStrike Team 
did

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Aillaud Niels 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 
  11:35 AM
  Subject: RE: PB News
  
  To echo what Mark Moran said..
  (Yes PB was probably asking money to continue working on 
  CS/HL)
  
  -Message d'origine-
  De : Mark Moran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Envoyé : mardi 25 septembre 2001 18:40
  À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Objet : RE: PB no more.
  
  
  I think if you read the news REAL close. They 'offered to do 
  business
  with'.. Me thinks the punkbuster people don't want to work for 
  free
  anymore. I've approached Valve about 'doing business with' me for 
  running a
  free server. They've turned me down too. (Removing tongue from 
  cheek.)
  I'm a little disappointed.
  
-Message d'origine-De: Richard C. Ryzner 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Envoyé: mardi 25 
septembre 2001 18:44À: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Objet: Re: PB 
News
I'm very sorry to hear this. With all the 
hacks out there PB is the only way to keep some of the less learned 
cheaters out of some servers. Unfortunatly there are so many cracks that 
bypass PB at this point, even ona PB required server there is 
usually at least one or two cheating. My big question at this point is 
why Valve isnt working with them. I realize we dont have all the 
information as to how it would be for Valve, legally etc. But I think 
that a reply from valve as to why would be nice.
Rick

Re: PB News

2001-09-25 Thread Buddha-Pest



that is true, they deserve to get the $$$ but why is Valve the one that has
to support them?  what if they simply went to a retail model where admins
have to buy the PB server?  I'd shell out a couple hundred bucks to run a
cheat free server.

this buy me mentality is a fucking joke.  90% the software development
industry thinks the way to success is to be bought by someone...

- Original Message -
From: steve johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: PB News


And they deserved it just as CounterStrike Team did

- Original Message -
From: Aillaud Niels mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: PB News

To echo what Mark Moran said..
(Yes PB was probably asking money to continue working on CS/HL)
-Message d'origine-

De : Mark Moran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Envoyé : mardi 25 septembre 2001 18:40

À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Objet : RE: PB no more.





I think if you read the news REAL close. They 'offered to do business

with'.. Me thinks the punkbuster people don't want to work for free

anymore. I've approached Valve about 'doing business with' me for
running a

free server. They've turned me down too. (Removing tongue from cheek.)

I'm a little disappointed.

-Message d'origine-
De : Richard C. Ryzner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Envoyé : mardi 25 septembre 2001 18:44
À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Objet : Re: PB News


I'm very sorry to hear this. With all the hacks out there PB is the only
way to keep some of the less learned cheaters out of some servers.
Unfortunatly there are so many cracks that bypass PB at this point, even
on a PB required server there is usually at least one or two cheating.
My big question at this point is why Valve isnt working with them. I
realize we dont have all the information as to how it would be for
Valve, legally etc. But I think that a reply from valve as to why would
be nice.
Rick

RE: PB no more.....



 why is Valve the one that *HAS* to respond?

Because we've heard PB's side.  We deserve to know what's going on...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

RE: PB News



 that is true, they deserve to get the $$$ but why is Valve the one that has
 to support them?  what if they simply went to a retail model where admins
 have to buy the PB server?  I'd shell out a couple hundred bucks to run a
 cheat free server.

That's pretty cool.  If I were in a position where a couple hundred bucks were
chump change that I could throw around on a free service, I'd probably do it,
too.  But that's probably pretty rare, unfortunately, that you'd have a
combination of ability and willingness to pay for it.

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

Re: PB News

2001-09-25 Thread Buddha-Pest



it is NOT chump change!!!  but it is still something i would do!  think
about it, you have hardware, bandwidth costs, etc. all going to this HOBBY.
if i was into model railroads, i'd be spending thousands of dollars a year.
if i was into photography (i am actually :) same thing.  this is a hobby
too, and one worthy enough of my $$$.  hell, i bet i could raise a couple of
hundred bucks from my regulars if i asked.  no one serious wants to play on
a server open to all cheats.

- Original Message -
From: Eric Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: PB News



  that is true, they deserve to get the $$$ but why is Valve the one that
has
  to support them?  what if they simply went to a retail model where
admins
  have to buy the PB server?  I'd shell out a couple hundred bucks to run
a
  cheat free server.

 That's pretty cool.  If I were in a position where a couple hundred bucks
were
 chump change that I could throw around on a free service, I'd probably do
it,
 too.  But that's probably pretty rare, unfortunately, that you'd have a
 combination of ability and willingness to pay for it.

 Eric (the Deacon remix)
 http://www.firekite.com

Re: HLTV



thanks so much ... I thought my message was lost in all the rants ...

At 07:29 PM 09/25/2001 -0700, you wrote:
hltv is the proxy server spectators connect to. And yes, it is strictly used
for that function.

Fear.

- Original Message -
From: HL Server [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 8:58 PM
Subject: HLTV

  Forgive my ignorance, but HLTV is strictly for spectating the server?

RE: PB doesn't even work, confirmed!



At 05:24 PM 09/25/2001 -0500, you wrote:
  why is Valve the one that *HAS* to respond?

Because we've heard PB's side.  We deserve to know what's going on...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

Why do you deserve to know anything about VALVe's business?

Maybe they don't want to respond cause they know PB doesn't work, and they
don't want a mass flame war going on in this list or on other forums for
stating this publicly ...

I have run PB Req for a very long time ... I have believed that Tony and
the PB Team at their word ...  I defended PB when people said it didn't
work ...

Yesterday, I decided to put PB to the test ...  It doesn't work ...

Maybe PB is not supporting HL anymore because PB doesn't know how to make
HL cheat free?  Maybe other online games are easier to protect ...

Maybe VALVe puts no credence into PB claims, and knows that it's not worth
the money, but don't want to harm PB's chances with other companies?

 From a web site that was posted here, or on http://www.counter-strike.net
(I don't remember which, but I think it was a web site) ... I went there,
downloaded the hack, installed in 2 seconds, and I was kicking butt on any
server on the list ...  PB REQ servers targeted directly ...

I now know for myself that PunkBuster does not work ...  I'm assuming VALVe
researched this long ago ... I finally got to it ...

It's a shame, PB is NOT an obstacle for any cheaters ...

Re: PB no more.....



Yes, and at this point, it may be a completely new gaming engine.  HL has
lived a long life but the new games coming out from other developers (still
no TF2 from Valve) will start w00in HL players over and at that point, HL
will become a classic game like the vintage Doom or Castle Wolfenstein. =\

Until then, players will continue to enjoy HL based MODs while looking for
something that is just as fun, if not more.  With better graphics, sound,
built-in anti-cheat features, better dedicated servers, etc...  Yes, there
will still be many loyal HL players like Starcraft still has today.

Nonetheless, everything must come to an end, and the glory days of HL have
been gone for awhile now, IMHO.

I really doubt that someone will be able to pick up where PB left off.  They
are correct in the fact that they need to build in some stuff directly into
the HL client and HLDS.  At least some hooks to where they can work off of.

For some odd reason, Valve does work very slow, or simply doesn't implement
some of the suggestions for modification to their code.  A group of us have
extended the HLDS launcher and even provided Valve with the code to add into
the SDK and make the extra command line parameters a permenant solution.
Here we are several patches later and we have to still modify the latest SDK
and recompile a new HLDS executable with the new command line parameters so
our external admin utilities can function properly.

For at least over a year now, Valve has suggested that we send them the
suggestions and code via email to several individuals.  We've done that, and
haven't heard anything.  A patch is announced in the works and we ask
whether what we sent them would be implemented to only get back a sorry,
no.  I'm sure Tony has experienced this in the past as well with whatever
he needs for PB to move forward.

If some of you are not aware, even the AdminMOD creator Alfred has been
working with Tony on PB.  I'm pretty confident that if they say they can't
move forward with some help from Valve, I would take their word for it.
Many of us developers don't ask for monetary compensation either.  It would
be nice to be offered something in return.  After all, many of us have
extended the HLDS freely and even on a much higher scale than their in-house
staff that actually get paid.

Anyway, I can't blame Tony and the rest of PB to move on.  HL has provided
us with years of great gaming for our original $40-50 that we can't even
begin to complain.  But, I have to admit, that I too have been in search of
the next great gaming engine and game that'll take FPS online gaming to the
next level.

(BTW, this doesn't mean that I'm pulling out of all HL development projects,
it's just that I konw and plan for my projects to have the ability to adapt
to future games.)

HoundDawg
http://www.phpGamingSite.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp

- Original Message -
From: Sharon Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: PB no more.



 someone else is bound to take up where they left off anyways.

Re: PB no more.....

2001-09-26 Thread Sysop



Hear Hear!!  (;

On Wednesday 26 September 2001 07:27 am, you wrote:
 Yes, and at this point, it may be a completely new gaming engine.  HL has
 lived a long life but the new games coming out from other developers (still
 no TF2 from Valve) will start w00in HL players over and at that point, HL
 will become a classic game like the vintage Doom or Castle Wolfenstein. =\

 Until then, players will continue to enjoy HL based MODs while looking for
 something that is just as fun, if not more.  With better graphics, sound,
 built-in anti-cheat features, better dedicated servers, etc...  Yes, there
 will still be many loyal HL players like Starcraft still has today.

 Nonetheless, everything must come to an end, and the glory days of HL have
 been gone for awhile now, IMHO.

 I really doubt that someone will be able to pick up where PB left off.
 They are correct in the fact that they need to build in some stuff directly
 into the HL client and HLDS.  At least some hooks to where they can work
 off of.

 For some odd reason, Valve does work very slow, or simply doesn't implement
 some of the suggestions for modification to their code.  A group of us have
 extended the HLDS launcher and even provided Valve with the code to add
 into the SDK and make the extra command line parameters a permenant
 solution. Here we are several patches later and we have to still modify the
 latest SDK and recompile a new HLDS executable with the new command line
 parameters so our external admin utilities can function properly.

 For at least over a year now, Valve has suggested that we send them the
 suggestions and code via email to several individuals.  We've done that,
 and haven't heard anything.  A patch is announced in the works and we ask
 whether what we sent them would be implemented to only get back a sorry,
 no.  I'm sure Tony has experienced this in the past as well with whatever
 he needs for PB to move forward.

 If some of you are not aware, even the AdminMOD creator Alfred has been
 working with Tony on PB.  I'm pretty confident that if they say they can't
 move forward with some help from Valve, I would take their word for it.
 Many of us developers don't ask for monetary compensation either.  It would
 be nice to be offered something in return.  After all, many of us have
 extended the HLDS freely and even on a much higher scale than their
 in-house staff that actually get paid.

 Anyway, I can't blame Tony and the rest of PB to move on.  HL has provided
 us with years of great gaming for our original $40-50 that we can't even
 begin to complain.  But, I have to admit, that I too have been in search of
 the next great gaming engine and game that'll take FPS online gaming to the
 next level.

 (BTW, this doesn't mean that I'm pulling out of all HL development
 projects, it's just that I konw and plan for my projects to have the
 ability to adapt to future games.)

 HoundDawg
 http://www.phpGamingSite.com
 http://www.unitedadmins.com
 http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp

 - Original Message -
 From: Sharon Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 3:06 AM
 Subject: Re: PB no more.

  someone else is bound to take up where they left off anyways.

--

What, were you expecting something witty?

Re: PB no more.....




If you need more enlightenment from PB's side, go 
through their forumseven start with this topic:
http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3bb17dfa6bf6;act=ST;f=12;t=1694
HoundDawghttp://www.phpGamingSite.comhttp://www.unitedadmins.comhttp://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp
- Original Message - 
From: "Buddha-Pest" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:54 
PM
Subject: Re: PB no more.
  we've heard PB's side? oh, you mean the sudden rant 
on their news page? i'm sorry, but i am still waiting for the 
explanation from the PB side...  Either: 1. Tony went to 
Valve to ask them to finance PB (either by outright buying them, or by 
funding them). Valve said no or didn't respond or did not respond 
IN TIME. Tony threw a fit. 2. Tony keeps asking for support from 
Valve (btw, this isn't "answering questions" probably more like having a 
gander at the source or asking for new APIs in the SDK). Valve 
said no or didn't respond or didn't respond IN TIME. Tony threw a 
fit. 3. Both  my guess: it's mostly 1 and a wee bit of 
2.   don't get me wrong here guys, i want to see PB + HL 
work. i have supported PB from the get go. i appreciate what 
these VOLUNTEERS have done. i respect them. I AM WILLING TO 
PAY THEM FOR A SERVER PRODUCT. but i do not support the way they 
handle basically every fucking issue. which is with anger and 
stubbornness.  consider how unresponsive PB has been to admins 
over the last year (Clan Tag Registry is a great example), how for 
months they refused to allow the product to go in an unexpected 
direction (even a month ago PB support was still referring to PB as a 
product for leagues), how totally unsupportive they were with 3rd party 
apps (until about 2 months ago, but i won't forget the previous months 
because not only were they unsupportive, they kept flinging that 
software agreement around at anyone trying to customize PB some). 
do i want them to get their just deserts? no! but i'm just 
pointing out that these guys are not martyrs of any sort. they're a 
decent bunch of developers with a great idea and now they want to drop 
the ball on the very community that made them successful... and 
they're going to jealously guard this technology too, mark my 
words. i have trouble supporting that.   
- Original Message - From: "Eric Hall" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:24 PM Subject: 
RE: PB no more.  why is 
Valve the one that *HAS* to respond?   Because we've 
heard PB's side. We deserve to know what's going on... 
  Eric (the Deacon remix)  http://www.firekite.com

RE: PB no more.....

2001-09-26 Thread Gouveia, Michael



Doesn't anyone think it's pretty funny that valve hasn't released a
statement on this punkbuster thing? Not even a peep from yahn or either of
the eric's.

Actually I think its pretty lame of them to ignore what is an obvious
disappointment within the cs/hl community.  Its obvious that valve no longer
cares about CS or HL.  Which they are showing by not doing what they can to
prevent the games by being overcome by cheaters.  Next thing you know they
will still releaseing patches.

Looks like its time to uninstall and toss this game to the side along with
my copy's of warcraft 2, starcraft, and command and conquer.  Only thing
that sucks is that I actually purchased a copy of CS to support valves
efforts in takeing up the game.  Big mistake on my part.




-Original Message-
From: HoundDawg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:28 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: PB no more.


Yes, and at this point, it may be a completely new gaming engine.  HL has
lived a long life but the new games coming out from other developers (still
no TF2 from Valve) will start w00in HL players over and at that point, HL
will become a classic game like the vintage Doom or Castle Wolfenstein. =\

Until then, players will continue to enjoy HL based MODs while looking for
something that is just as fun, if not more.  With better graphics, sound,
built-in anti-cheat features, better dedicated servers, etc...  Yes, there
will still be many loyal HL players like Starcraft still has today.

Nonetheless, everything must come to an end, and the glory days of HL have
been gone for awhile now, IMHO.

I really doubt that someone will be able to pick up where PB left off.  They
are correct in the fact that they need to build in some stuff directly into
the HL client and HLDS.  At least some hooks to where they can work off of.

For some odd reason, Valve does work very slow, or simply doesn't implement
some of the suggestions for modification to their code.  A group of us have
extended the HLDS launcher and even provided Valve with the code to add into
the SDK and make the extra command line parameters a permenant solution.
Here we are several patches later and we have to still modify the latest SDK
and recompile a new HLDS executable with the new command line parameters so
our external admin utilities can function properly.

For at least over a year now, Valve has suggested that we send them the
suggestions and code via email to several individuals.  We've done that, and
haven't heard anything.  A patch is announced in the works and we ask
whether what we sent them would be implemented to only get back a sorry,
no.  I'm sure Tony has experienced this in the past as well with whatever
he needs for PB to move forward.

If some of you are not aware, even the AdminMOD creator Alfred has been
working with Tony on PB.  I'm pretty confident that if they say they can't
move forward with some help from Valve, I would take their word for it.
Many of us developers don't ask for monetary compensation either.  It would
be nice to be offered something in return.  After all, many of us have
extended the HLDS freely and even on a much higher scale than their in-house
staff that actually get paid.

Anyway, I can't blame Tony and the rest of PB to move on.  HL has provided
us with years of great gaming for our original $40-50 that we can't even
begin to complain.  But, I have to admit, that I too have been in search of
the next great gaming engine and game that'll take FPS online gaming to the
next level.

(BTW, this doesn't mean that I'm pulling out of all HL development projects,
it's just that I konw and plan for my projects to have the ability to adapt
to future games.)

HoundDawg
http://www.phpGamingSite.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp

- Original Message -
From: Sharon Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: PB no more.



 someone else is bound to take up where they left off anyways.

Re: Bad maps and other problems

2001-09-26 Thread Bradley W. Craig



Is file-level security necessary?  Can't you just select the files in
question and make them read only?  Is there some functionality in HLDS to
change file attributes?  From the client side, I had experience playing on
a server where the Admin used Admin-mod to remove all key bindings from
clients if the Admin was on the losing side of the CS server.  Since I use
WinME as my client OS, I set the file attribute of my config file to read
only.  The only down side is that you will get an error message when
closing Half-Life that your config files could not be updated, but you can
ignore this error.  Won't this same tactic work for the map files on the
server?


At 11:34 AM 9/26/2001 -0400, you wrote:


I had the autocorrupting map problem for some time wuth my dod server.  For no
reason whatsoever, with complete and utter randomness, a bsp would be
different.

It got to the point I would use file level security in win2k-As andcompletely
write protect the maps folder.  That actually worked but was a pain in the ass
when I needed to put something there or install an update because I had to
re-allow myself to write to the folder.

Just an idea.









Jody Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 09/26/2001 11:21:33 AM

Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



   To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   cc:  (bcc: Matthew F Minarik/Picker)



   Subject  Bad maps and other problems
   :







I have a problem of bad maps. When a client connects to my server it
says that the maps differ. I do have the latest patch, admin-mod and so
does the client. Another admin on the server told me that this V/ulgar
won id 830562 and ip address 216.78.202.251 was bragging about messing
up the maps. Every time this happens I have to reinstall the game to =
get things working again. Anyway I saw him on the server today and
confronted him. He admitted to doing it so I band his WON ID but the
other admin did too. He keeps getting back in. Is anyone else having
this problem? Because it is driving me crazy. The server is [ATL01]
Inflow TFC Server 205.128.10.197. The server is at a Data Center in
Atlanta on triple OC3 circuits Dell Box with 4 Pill 800 and 2 gig ram
running W2Kserver fully patched. Please help with this problem.=20
Another problem I also run a Firearms server that dies daily with
nothing showing in the logs.. These games are getting to be more
work than they are worth to keep running. Please help with any info on
the problems so I can keep them up.
 Thanks
 Jody






 Bradley W. Craig, C.I.O.
 Magna Imaging Group
 Phone: (630)942-0755
 Fax: (630)942-1556

At 07:48 AM 09/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
If you need more enlightenment from PB's side, go through their
forumseven start with this topic:
http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3bb17dfa6bf6;act=ST;f=12;t=1694http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3bb17dfa6bf6;act=ST;f=12;t=1694

This forum is a great read ... I think everyone that's interested in PB
should read it ...

I also think it's a hoot all you pretend software developers are giving
VALVe poop about a product that has successfully sold millions of copies
(and probably bootlegged as many) ...

They didn't ask any one of you to set to code any additional utilities for
their program ... They didn't stop you either ... Anything outside of VALVe
is volunteer work ... I'm sure they appreciate it and recognize it, but I
don't think it's going to sway any of their decisions in the way their
program will go ... VALVe makes a change, it's up to the volunteers to
change their utility ... not the other way around ...

And another thing I got out of that forum ... It takes 12-24 hours to hack
new patches of HL, but only 10-15 minutes to avert PB ... As I stated in a
previous message, I have run PB with the false sense of security that
people were not cheating on my servers ... This has been a false sense of
security ... PB simply doesn't work, confirmed. It's not like this is a
new hack either ... It's not like it's one they don't know about either
... Publicly distributed, named and accessible ...

I think the only thing that need be done is for VALVe to decide someday,
Hey, you know, we ought to stamp out the ability to cheat with our
program. and from then on it will be history ... VALVe didn't ask Tony
Ray to spend every waking moment away from work and family to develop PB
... Tony Ray should expect nothing in return ...

If VALVe thought it was worth it to work with him on a project to stop
cheating, they would have done it by now ... Now PB is going corporate with
a product that is easily averted, he has distanced himself even further
from any community here in my opinion ... I think VALVe is perfectly
capable of accomplishing all of this on their own ... I think as a result
of this, you will see security implemented in VALVe's stuff, and the death
of PB ... Not the other way around ...

Tony has leaked info of PB approved stamps on games coming out .. blah
blah ... I think it was smoke to up the price ... this is just my opinion ...

Anyway ... play devil's advocate, and really think about this ... Don't go
on your stance or hearsay ... evaluate the facts ...

RE: PB doesn't even work, confirmed!



 Why do you deserve to know anything about VALVe's business?

Because we've volunteered hundreds of man hours and thousands of dollars to
supporting their product.  Because it's not unreasonable to have *some* sort of
response.

 Maybe they don't want to respond cause they know PB doesn't work, and they
 don't want a mass flame war going on in this list or on other forums for
 stating this publicly ...

Then all they have to say is that they've looked at it and decided that PB isn't
the best solution right now, or whatever it is they're thinking.  I'm not going
to *argue* about what they say, I just want to hear what the deal is.  The
amount of money and time spent on serving this game for them is just staggering,
and I'm glad I'm not stuck with most of y'all's colo bills and hardware bills...

 Maybe PB is not supporting HL anymore because PB doesn't know how to make
 HL cheat free?  Maybe other online games are easier to protect ...

That's definitely possible.  I would like to know :\

 Maybe VALVe puts no credence into PB claims, and knows that it's not worth
 the money, but don't want to harm PB's chances with other companies?

If that's the case, I'd be surprised that the gaming software industry is so
cut-throat that someone would knowingly sabotage another's game that way...
Could happen, of course :)

 It's a shame, PB is NOT an obstacle for any cheaters ...

Heh, since most of these hacks will *not* run in Win2k, I've been unable to test
them for a while...  This is very possible, and I have to rely on the
information from folks like you and the other members of this list, for
instance, for the only half-way reliable reports on what's caught and what's
not.  Heh, and then you get conflicting responses, and you're like, Well?
Which is it?  Caught or not?  Heh, ah, the life of a non-cheating admin ;)

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

RE: PB no more.....



 Now just wait before you get all rash and all.  Valve might have to consult
 with lawers before they can make a statement about it, and Tony may be
 blowing smoke up our asses.  We don't know.  Don't AssUme anything...

Exactly.  That's why we're waiting for word from Valve.  I'd rather hear even a
Buddha-defined rant from Valve than nothing at all...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

RE: Bad maps and other problems



FWIW I used to have that problem with NT4 and compressed folders...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Sysop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:52 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Bad maps and other problems



 If you have maps doing that to you, check your ram, that's usually one of the
 first indicators that a stick or 2 is going south...

 On Wednesday 26 September 2001 08:34 am, you wrote:
  I had the autocorrupting map problem for some time wuth my dod server.  For
  no reason whatsoever, with complete and utter randomness, a bsp would be
  different.
 
  It got to the point I would use file level security in win2k-As
  andcompletely write protect the maps folder.  That actually worked but was
  a pain in the ass when I needed to put something there or install an update
  because I had to re-allow myself to write to the folder.
 
  Just an idea.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Jody Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 09/26/2001 11:21:33 AM
 
  Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
cc:  (bcc: Matthew F Minarik/Picker)
 
 
 
Subject  Bad maps and other problems
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  I have a problem of bad maps. When a client connects to my server it
  says that the maps differ. I do have the latest patch, admin-mod and so
  does the client. Another admin on the server told me that this V/ulgar
  won id 830562 and ip address 216.78.202.251 was bragging about messing
  up the maps. Every time this happens I have to reinstall the game to =
  get things working again. Anyway I saw him on the server today and
  confronted him. He admitted to doing it so I band his WON ID but the
  other admin did too. He keeps getting back in. Is anyone else having
  this problem? Because it is driving me crazy. The server is [ATL01]
  Inflow TFC Server 205.128.10.197. The server is at a Data Center in
  Atlanta on triple OC3 circuits Dell Box with 4 Pill 800 and 2 gig ram
  running W2Kserver fully patched. Please help with this problem.=20
  Another problem I also run a Firearms server that dies daily with
  nothing showing in the logs.. These games are getting to be more
  work than they are worth to keep running. Please help with any info on
  the problems so I can keep them up.
  Thanks
  Jody

 --

 What, were you expecting something witty?

RE: PB no more.....



 And another thing I got out of that forum ... It takes 12-24 hours to hack
 new patches of HL, but only 10-15 minutes to avert PB ...  As I stated in a
 previous message, I have run PB with the false sense of security that
 people were not cheating on my servers ... This has been a false sense of
 security ... PB simply doesn't work, confirmed.  It's not like this is a
 new hack either ...  It's not like it's one they don't know about either
 ...  Publicly distributed, named and accessible ...

It really depends your definition of whether it works or not.  For me, I have
no illusions that it instantly halts any and all h4x at any given time.  I
*know* the h4xers are always going to be ahead of the game.  PB is reactionary
software.  A cheat is released, and they have to respond.  I like it because
while there are usually new h4x coming out, a lot of them are still caught.  I
know in my cheater log, there have been quite a few less sophisticated h4xers
caught.

And you know really, some people approach cheating as if it were AIDS or
something.  Honestly, it's not that big a deal.  Yes, it would be preferable by
far to have a cheat-free game, but we don't, we know we don't, and we play it
anyway.  If a handful of people are able to cheat on my servers, whooptee doo.
PB catches the a lot in his net, and those that want to keep playing unmolested
need to be constantly on their toes looking for the latest and greatest, hoping
against hope they don't actually get caught while on a server cluster they call
home.  Some of y'all obviously feel differently, and that's of course your
prerogative, but I think it'd help to put a little reality check into your
expectations of PB and whether it really works or not.  Honestly, I'm not sure
Valve can/could do anything with PB beyond contributing funds that would really
improve the basic situation we've got now.  I'd rather have them concentrating
on the prevention of cheats altogether.  PB is great in the absence of something
better, and it's frustrating that no new updates are supposed to be forthcoming,
but it's a band-aid fix...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

RE: Bad maps and other problems

2001-09-26 Thread Jody Marshall

I really dont think memory is the problem. That the box is running
several other things with no problems Anyone have suggestions on the
Firearms server dieing??

-Original Message-
From: Sysop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Bad maps and other problems

If you have maps doing that to you, check your ram, that's usually one
of the
first indicators that a stick or 2 is going south...

On Wednesday 26 September 2001 08:34 am, you wrote:
 I had the autocorrupting map problem for some time wuth my dod server.
For
 no reason whatsoever, with complete and utter randomness, a bsp would
be
 different.

 It got to the point I would use file level security in win2k-As
 andcompletely write protect the maps folder.  That actually worked but
was
 a pain in the ass when I needed to put something there or install an
update
 because I had to re-allow myself to write to the folder.

 Just an idea.

 Jody Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 09/26/2001 11:21:33 AM

 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   cc:  (bcc: Matthew F Minarik/Picker)

   Subject  Bad maps and other problems

 I have a problem of bad maps. When a client connects to my server it
 says that the maps differ. I do have the latest patch, admin-mod and
so
 does the client. Another admin on the server told me that this V/ulgar
 won id 830562 and ip address 216.78.202.251 was bragging about messing
 up the maps. Every time this happens I have to reinstall the game to =
 get things working again. Anyway I saw him on the server today and
 confronted him. He admitted to doing it so I band his WON ID but the
 other admin did too. He keeps getting back in. Is anyone else having
 this problem? Because it is driving me crazy. The server is [ATL01]
 Inflow TFC Server 205.128.10.197. The server is at a Data Center in
 Atlanta on triple OC3 circuits Dell Box with 4 Pill 800 and 2 gig ram
 running W2Kserver fully patched. Please help with this problem.=20
 Another problem I also run a Firearms server that dies daily with
 nothing showing in the logs.. These games are getting to be more
 work than they are worth to keep running. Please help with any info on
 the problems so I can keep them up.
 Thanks
 Jody

--

What, were you expecting something witty?

Re: PB no more.....



Well, yer definately playing Devil's advocate here (I thought that was
Eric's job).  Anyway, yer comments about pretend software developers was
unfounded and uncalled for.  I'll be the first to THWACK you for that one.

As for the rest of your rantings...I'm disappointed in your viewpoint as it
has no constructiveness in the gaming community, business, or society for
that matter.  Talk about a bleak world.  I dare you post this type of
mentality to the Linux list.  If this philosophy of yours (or devil's
advocate) is how things were done in this HL community, then I'd be the
first one to leave.  Because, it is that mentality that everyone thinks that
Microsoft has (which is, for the most part, false) and not welcoming at
best.

If this is truely your beliefs, I hope you never have kids...or ones that
follow your advise...society would be a better place without them... =\


HoundDawg
http://www.phpGamingSite.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp
- Original Message -
From: HL Server [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: PB no more.



 At 07:48 AM 09/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
 If you need more enlightenment from PB's side, go through their
 forumseven start with this topic:

http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3bb17dfa6bf6;
act=ST;f=12;t=1694http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=
3bb17dfa6bf6;act=ST;f=12;t=1694

 This forum is a great read ... I think everyone that's interested in PB
 should read it ...

 I also think it's a hoot all you pretend software developers are giving
 VALVe poop about a product that has successfully sold millions of copies
 (and probably bootlegged as many) ...

 They didn't ask any one of you to set to code any additional utilities for
 their program ... They didn't stop you either ... Anything outside of
VALVe
 is volunteer work ...  I'm sure they appreciate it and recognize it, but I
 don't think it's going to sway any of their decisions in the way their
 program will go ...  VALVe makes a change, it's up to the volunteers to
 change their utility ... not the other way around ...

 And another thing I got out of that forum ... It takes 12-24 hours to hack
 new patches of HL, but only 10-15 minutes to avert PB ...  As I stated in
a
 previous message, I have run PB with the false sense of security that
 people were not cheating on my servers ... This has been a false sense of
 security ... PB simply doesn't work, confirmed.  It's not like this is a
 new hack either ...  It's not like it's one they don't know about either
 ...  Publicly distributed, named and accessible ...

 I think the only thing that need be done is for VALVe to decide someday,
 Hey, you know, we ought to stamp out the ability to cheat with our
 program. and from then on it will be history ...  VALVe didn't ask Tony
 Ray to spend every waking moment away from work and family to develop PB
 ... Tony Ray should expect nothing in return ...

 If VALVe thought it was worth it to work with him on a project to stop
 cheating, they would have done it by now ... Now PB is going corporate
with
 a product that is easily averted, he has distanced himself even further
 from any community here in my opinion ... I think VALVe is perfectly
 capable of accomplishing all of this on their own ...  I think as a result
 of this, you will see security implemented in VALVe's stuff, and the death
 of PB ...  Not the other way around ...

 Tony has leaked info of PB approved stamps on games coming out .. blah
 blah ... I think it was smoke to up the price ...  this is just my opinion
...

 Anyway ... play devil's advocate, and really think about this ... Don't go
 on your stance or hearsay ... evaluate the facts ...

RE: cs 1.3 retail dedicated server keeps quitting



I told a guy this same thing eric. Since he has retail apparently you do not
need the full server.

Nick, can you provide us with some logs? or a better explaination.

-Original Message-
From: Eric Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 11:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: cs 1.3 retail dedicated server keeps quitting



Uh, not sure, but if you're trying to run a dedicated server, download the
full
4108 server from http://www.lgsocentral.com/patches.html and go from there.

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Nick Nanotte [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:11 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: cs 1.3 retail dedicated server keeps quitting




 I just installed CS. 1.3 Retail. How come the server keeps
 on quitting every now and then like after 5 or 10 minutes.
 Has anyone else encountered this? Thanks.

 Nick

RE: PB no more.....

They are copyright'ing the source/technology. Why would they want to give it
away?

-Original Message-
From: Marcelo ''Mosca'' de Paula Bezerra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 9:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: PB no more.

If they are giving up, they could at least make the source code public
in a way it could be further developed by the community that made them
succesfull. I even offered my help in coding the linux pbc2jpg util.
I am seriouly thinking about dumping pb.

Buddha-Pest wrote:

 we've heard PB's side?  oh, you mean the sudden rant on their news page?
 i'm sorry, but i am still waiting for the explanation from the PB side...

 Either:
 1. Tony went to Valve to ask them to finance PB (either by outright buying
 them, or by funding them).  Valve said no or didn't respond or did not
 respond IN TIME.  Tony threw a fit.
 2. Tony keeps asking for support from Valve (btw, this isn't answering
 questions probably more like having a gander at the source or asking for
 new APIs in the SDK).  Valve said no or didn't respond or didn't respond
IN
 TIME.  Tony threw a fit.
 3. Both

 my guess: it's mostly 1 and a wee bit of 2.

 don't get me wrong here guys, i want to see PB + HL work.  i have
supported
 PB from the get go.  i appreciate what these VOLUNTEERS have done.  i
 respect them.  I AM WILLING TO PAY THEM FOR A SERVER PRODUCT.  but i do
not
 support the way they handle basically every fucking issue.  which is with
 anger and stubbornness.

 consider how unresponsive PB has been to admins over the last year (Clan
Tag
 Registry is a great example), how for months they refused to allow the
 product to go in an unexpected direction (even a month ago PB support was
 still referring to PB as a product for leagues), how totally unsupportive
 they were with 3rd party apps (until about 2 months ago, but i won't
forget
 the previous months because not only were they unsupportive, they kept
 flinging that software agreement around at anyone trying to customize PB
 some).  do i want them to get their just deserts?  no!  but i'm just
 pointing out that these guys are not martyrs of any sort.  they're a
decent
 bunch of developers with a great idea and now they want to drop the ball
on
 the very community that made them successful...  and they're going to
 jealously guard this technology too, mark my words.  i have trouble
 supporting that.

 - Original Message -
 From: Eric Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:24 PM
 Subject: RE: PB no more.

   why is Valve the one that *HAS* to respond?

  Because we've heard PB's side.  We deserve to know what's going on...

  Eric (the Deacon remix)
  http://www.firekite.com

--
Marcelo de Paula Bezerra - Fortaleza/CE Brazil
Tekmetrics certified Master Linux Administrator
http://www.tekmetrics.com/transcript.jsp?pid=97219

A computer is a state machine. Threads are for people who cant
program state machines. -- Alan Cox

-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Version: 3.1
GCM/CS/CC/E/IT/O d--- s: a-- C UL UB- P L E W+ K?
w---
PS+++ t+++ X+ D+ G e++ h! y+++$
--END GEEK CODE BLOCK--

RE: Bad maps and other problems



Ok, I think your box has been had. If he is able to freak out the maps and
unban himself he is somehow modifying files. Is he on static or dynamic IP?
If it is static I would add him to win2k servers not trusted IP address
list. I would try to find out how he is connecting to your box. How do you
access the server? remotely/directly? If remotely check your programs logs.
Make sure he is not getting into your server this way. Anyways, this is what
I think.

-Original Message-
From: Jody Marshall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Bad maps and other problems



No compressed folders here!!! Any other suggestions

-Original Message-
From: Eric Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Bad maps and other problems


FWIW I used to have that problem with NT4 and compressed folders...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Sysop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:52 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Bad maps and other problems



 If you have maps doing that to you, check your ram, that's usually one
of the
 first indicators that a stick or 2 is going south...

 On Wednesday 26 September 2001 08:34 am, you wrote:
  I had the autocorrupting map problem for some time wuth my dod
server.  For
  no reason whatsoever, with complete and utter randomness, a bsp
would be
  different.
 
  It got to the point I would use file level security in win2k-As
  andcompletely write protect the maps folder.  That actually worked
but was
  a pain in the ass when I needed to put something there or install an
update
  because I had to re-allow myself to write to the folder.
 
  Just an idea.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Jody Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 09/26/2001 11:21:33 AM
 
  Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
cc:  (bcc: Matthew F Minarik/Picker)
 
 
 
Subject  Bad maps and other problems
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  I have a problem of bad maps. When a client connects to my server it
  says that the maps differ. I do have the latest patch, admin-mod and
so
  does the client. Another admin on the server told me that this
V/ulgar
  won id 830562 and ip address 216.78.202.251 was bragging about
messing
  up the maps. Every time this happens I have to reinstall the game to
=
  get things working again. Anyway I saw him on the server today and
  confronted him. He admitted to doing it so I band his WON ID but the
  other admin did too. He keeps getting back in. Is anyone else having
  this problem? Because it is driving me crazy. The server is [ATL01]
  Inflow TFC Server 205.128.10.197. The server is at a Data Center in
  Atlanta on triple OC3 circuits Dell Box with 4 Pill 800 and 2 gig
ram
  running W2Kserver fully patched. Please help with this problem.=20
  Another problem I also run a Firearms server that dies daily with
  nothing showing in the logs.. These games are getting to be more
  work than they are worth to keep running. Please help with any info
on
  the problems so I can keep them up.
  Thanks
  Jody

 --

 What, were you expecting something witty?

semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on

2001-09-26 Thread Patrick Devin Wigington



I appreciate the post regarding FireDaemon and will use it on my win 2K
server.

One problem i forsee is that if i had to restart the system, it would ask me
to log on. That would stop win 2K from loading and then running the
services??

How can i configure win 2K so that a remote restart will allow it to start
the services?

thank you
Devin

Re: Bad maps and other problems

2001-09-26 Thread gil brice



At the very least Change your passwords on the box
INCLUDING the RCON password.   It sounds to me as if
he's cracked your RCON password.


--- Jody Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have a problem of bad maps. When a client connects
 to my server it
 says that the maps differ. I do have the latest
 patch, admin-mod and so
 does the client. Another admin on the server told me
 that this V/ulgar
 won id 830562 and ip address 216.78.202.251 was
 bragging about messing
 up the maps. Every time this happens I have to
 reinstall the game to =
 get things working again. Anyway I saw him on the
 server today and
 confronted him. He admitted to doing it so I band
 his WON ID but the
 other admin did too. He keeps getting back in. Is
 anyone else having
 this problem? Because it is driving me crazy. The
 server is [ATL01]
 Inflow TFC Server 205.128.10.197. The server is at a
 Data Center in
 Atlanta on triple OC3 circuits Dell Box with 4 Pill
 800 and 2 gig ram
 running W2Kserver fully patched. Please help with
 this problem.=20
 Another problem I also run a Firearms server that
 dies daily with
 nothing showing in the logs.. These games are
 getting to be more
 work than they are worth to keep running. Please
 help with any info on
 the problems so I can keep them up.
 Thanks
 Jody



__
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts  NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. 
http://im.yahoo.com

RE: PB doesn't even work, confirmed!



At 11:18 AM 09/25/2001 -0500, you wrote:
  Why do you deserve to know anything about VALVe's business?

Because we've volunteered hundreds of man hours and thousands of dollars to
supporting their product.  Because it's not unreasonable to have *some*
sort of
response. The amount of money and time spent on serving this game for them
is just staggering,
and I'm glad I'm not stuck with most of y'all's colo bills and hardware
bills...

snipped a lot, but my stance is this ... VALVe didn't ask you to do it, you
did it on your own ...  It's like cutting a stranger's lawn and expecting a
Hamilton for it ...

  It's a shame, PB is NOT an obstacle for any cheaters ...

Heh, since most of these hacks will *not* run in Win2k, I've been unable
to test
them for a while...  This is very possible, and I have to rely on the
information from folks like you and the other members of this list, for
instance, for the only half-way reliable reports on what's caught and what's
not.  Heh, and then you get conflicting responses, and you're like, Well?
Which is it?  Caught or not?  Heh, ah, the life of a non-cheating
admin ;)

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

Hack works perfectly fine on W2K ... I wouldn't run anything else ...

I finally got fed up after months of being hit from across the map and when
the link presented itself, I decided to test my anti-cheat armor ... I
found out that there is no armor and it's been going on forever ... It was
never even hindered by PB ...  I would have shared this information even if
PB didn't decide to bail on HL

Re: PB no more.....



At 10:11 AM 09/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
Well, yer definately playing Devil's advocate here (I thought that was
Eric's job).  Anyway, yer comments about pretend software developers was
unfounded and uncalled for.  I'll be the first to THWACK you for that one.

How so?  People who can program (and I am one of them) write a program ...
they release it ... (basically just share it) ... They set up a web site
and forums and support it and others who use it support it and share their
experiences with the software   Money never changed hands, and the
software is not copy-written or anything and not even recognized by the
software manufacturer for the software it is in reference to ...  Pretend
may not be a good word for it, but what would you call it then?

As for the rest of your rantings...I'm disappointed in your viewpoint as it
has no constructiveness in the gaming community, business, or society for
that matter.  Talk about a bleak world.  I dare you post this type of
mentality to the Linux list.  If this philosophy of yours (or devil's
advocate) is how things were done in this HL community, then I'd be the
first one to leave.  Because, it is that mentality that everyone thinks that
Microsoft has (which is, for the most part, false) and not welcoming at
best.

You hit the nail on the head Linux (altho I prefer Unix) ... HalfLife is
not Open Source now, is it?  There is one entity which controls the
direction of the software ... yes they will take email suggestions .. yes
they will revel in people writing third party utils for their product ...
but no one determines what goes on with their product but them ...  To you
a bleak world, to me .. makes perfect sense and no one that wrote a third
party utility, runs a free server .. whatever ... should expect anything in
return for their efforts and time put in ...

I have written countless utilities in support of software and never
received anything from it but the satisfaction of little utilities I wrote
running on computers all over the world ... I thought that was awesome
myself ...  but I never expected anything in return from the author of the
program ...  When he made changes, I had to adjust ... I didn't tell him
what to code ...  I thought my utils were flashier and better than some he
wrote for his software ... Fact of the matter is, his worked .. plain jane
...  Same applies to VALVe .. their software works as is ...

If this is truely your beliefs, I hope you never have kids...or ones that
follow your advise...society would be a better place without them... =\

I have 2 kids, and another due any day (actually could be any minute) ... I
am old .. I am wise .. ignore me ...

HoundDawg
http://www.phpGamingSite.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp
- Original Message -
From: HL Server [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: PB no more.


 
  At 07:48 AM 09/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
  If you need more enlightenment from PB's side, go through their
  forumseven start with this topic:
 
 http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3bb17dfa6bf6;
act=ST;f=12;t=1694http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=
3bb17dfa6bf6;act=ST;f=12;t=1694
 
  This forum is a great read ... I think everyone that's interested in PB
  should read it ...
 
  I also think it's a hoot all you pretend software developers are giving
  VALVe poop about a product that has successfully sold millions of copies
  (and probably bootlegged as many) ...
 
  They didn't ask any one of you to set to code any additional utilities for
  their program ... They didn't stop you either ... Anything outside of
VALVe
  is volunteer work ...  I'm sure they appreciate it and recognize it, but I
  don't think it's going to sway any of their decisions in the way their
  program will go ...  VALVe makes a change, it's up to the volunteers to
  change their utility ... not the other way around ...
 
  And another thing I got out of that forum ... It takes 12-24 hours to hack
  new patches of HL, but only 10-15 minutes to avert PB ...  As I stated in
a
  previous message, I have run PB with the false sense of security that
  people were not cheating on my servers ... This has been a false sense of
  security ... PB simply doesn't work, confirmed.  It's not like this is a
  new hack either ...  It's not like it's one they don't know about either
  ...  Publicly distributed, named and accessible ...
 
  I think the only thing that need be done is for VALVe to decide someday,
  Hey, you know, we ought to stamp out the ability to cheat with our
  program. and from then on it will be history ...  VALVe didn't ask Tony
  Ray to spend every waking moment away from work and family to develop PB
  ... Tony Ray should expect nothing in return ...
 
  If VALVe thought it was worth it to work with him on a project to stop
  cheating, they would have done it by now ... Now PB is

RE: cs 1.3 retail dedicated server keeps quitting



 I told a guy this same thing eric. Since he has retail apparently you do not
 need the full server.

The original HL CD also comes with an HLDS.exe on it.  It's invoked when you
check the Dedicated box when creating a new game.  It is *not* the full HLDS
server.  If he's serious about running a real server, he needs to download and
use the real thing, which is free, btw...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

RE: semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on



That's really unnecessary.  Services are started/run by SYSTEM anyway.  It
works by default.  Unless you've got some funky permissions and things going on,
all you need to do is install the service.  There's an option as to whether to
set the service to start automatically or manually.  I always have it start
automatically.  It's really very simple.  Services start up without regard to
whether someone is logged and who they might be...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Kelly Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 2:32 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on



 When you are setting up the service, select Log on:  This account  and
 enter a valid username and password for your server (make sure that the
 username/pass combo you use has sufficient permissions to run your HL
 server).  Setting it up to run this way will ensure that the service will
 start after a remote reboot.

 Kelly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: Patrick Devin Wigington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:00 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on



 I appreciate the post regarding FireDaemon and will use it on my win 2K
 server.

 One problem i forsee is that if i had to restart the system, it would ask me
 to log on. That would stop win 2K from loading and then running the
 services??

 How can i configure win 2K so that a remote restart will allow it to start
 the services?

 thank you
 Devin

RE: cs 1.3 retail dedicated server keeps quitting



At 02:48 PM 09/25/2001 -0500, you wrote:
  I told a guy this same thing eric. Since he has retail apparently you
 do not
  need the full server.

The original HL CD also comes with an HLDS.exe on it.  It's invoked when you
check the Dedicated box when creating a new game.  It is *not* the full HLDS
server.  If he's serious about running a real server, he needs to download and
use the real thing, which is free, btw...

According to VALVe ... there is no difference ... The FREE dedicated server
doesn't require you to purchase HL ... but then you can't play it ...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

RE: semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on

will firedaemon automatically restart the process tho? and what does
unchecking interact with the desktop do? not display the console?

-Original Message-
From: Eric Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on

That's really unnecessary.  Services are started/run by SYSTEM anyway.  It
works by default.  Unless you've got some funky permissions and things going
on,
all you need to do is install the service.  There's an option as to whether
to
set the service to start automatically or manually.  I always have it start
automatically.  It's really very simple.  Services start up without regard
to
whether someone is logged and who they might be...

Eric (the Deacon remix)
http://www.firekite.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Kelly Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 2:32 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on

 When you are setting up the service, select Log on:  This account  and
 enter a valid username and password for your server (make sure that the
 username/pass combo you use has sufficient permissions to run your HL
 server).  Setting it up to run this way will ensure that the service will
 start after a remote reboot.

 Kelly
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -Original Message-
 From: Patrick Devin Wigington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:00 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: semi-[OT] Win 2K by pass log on

 I appreciate the post regarding FireDaemon and will use it on my win 2K
 server.

 One problem i forsee is that if i had to restart the system, it would ask
me
 to log on. That would stop win 2K from loading and then running the
 services??

 How can i configure win 2K so that a remote restart will allow it to start
 the services?

 thank you
 Devin

Re: PB no more.....



- Original Message -
From: HL Server [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 At 10:11 AM 09/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
 Well, yer definately playing Devil's advocate here (I thought that was
 Eric's job).  Anyway, yer comments about pretend software developers
was
 unfounded and uncalled for.  I'll be the first to THWACK you for that
one.

 How so?  People who can program (and I am one of them) write a program ...
 they release it ... (basically just share it) ... They set up a web site
 and forums and support it and others who use it support it and share their
 experiences with the software   Money never changed hands, and the
 software is not copy-written or anything and not even recognized by the
 software manufacturer for the software it is in reference to ...
Pretend
 may not be a good word for it, but what would you call it then?

Money doesn't have to exchange hands for it to be a real program.  Also,
many of the programs are copyrighted, even the open souce ones.  No,
pretend, or any other word except for 3rd Party would work.

 As for the rest of your rantings...I'm disappointed in your viewpoint as
it
 has no constructiveness in the gaming community, business, or society for
 that matter.  Talk about a bleak world.  I dare you post this type of
 mentality to the Linux list.  If this philosophy of yours (or devil's
 advocate) is how things were done in this HL community, then I'd be the
 first one to leave.  Because, it is that mentality that everyone thinks
that
 Microsoft has (which is, for the most part, false) and not welcoming at
 best.

 You hit the nail on the head Linux (altho I prefer Unix) ... HalfLife is
 not Open Source now, is it?  There is one entity which controls the

Open source has nothing to do with anything we're discussing here.  Take a
step back and re-read some of your comments and maybe you'll see the type of
philosophy you're trying to apply here.

 direction of the software ... yes they will take email suggestions .. yes
 they will revel in people writing third party utils for their product ...
 but no one determines what goes on with their product but them ...  To you
 a bleak world, to me .. makes perfect sense and no one that wrote a third
 party utility, runs a free server .. whatever ... should expect anything
in
 return for their efforts and time put in ...

So, what you are saying here, is that a company shouldn't listen to their
customers but rather just create some shit, throw it against the wall, and
see if and what parts stick?  I prefer the philosophy of a company listening
to its customers, or even more importantly, those ideas and suggestions from
3rd party developers that are working hard (for free) to extend their
original product (which they get paid) based on the feedback and experiences
of them and the players they are in contact with.

If Valve took the stance of being some sort of god game developer, I'm not
sure how many would stick around and waste their time.  Especially, when
better gaming engines are coming out and not just patched up old ones that
gain additional features not really requested while ignoring those that are
giving them sound enhancements that they really don't have to do much work.
Man, they would be so f00ked up in the head to not work with all of these
other developers that aren't even drawing funds from their budget but at the
same time extending their product faster than they are.

 I have written countless utilities in support of software and never
 received anything from it but the satisfaction of little utilities I wrote
 running on computers all over the world ... I thought that was awesome
 myself ...  but I never expected anything in return from the author of the
 program ...  When he made changes, I had to adjust ... I didn't tell him
 what to code ...  I thought my utils were flashier and better than some he
 wrote for his software ... Fact of the matter is, his worked .. plain jane
 ...  Same applies to VALVe .. their software works as is ...

Well, I really don't know at what level your utilities are integrated with
the primary one, but at some point in integration and feature extentions,
changes or hooks are required in the main code.  If these are not
incorporated and you can't continue without it, then it's time to move on to
another more agreeable community.  This is all that Tony is saying and
doing.

 If this is truely your beliefs, I hope you never have kids...or ones that
 follow your advise...society would be a better place without them... =\

 I have 2 kids, and another due any day (actually could be any minute) ...
I
 am old .. I am wise .. ignore me ...

Well, don't mistake knowledge with wisdom. from my perspective, it looks
like you need a little more wisdom in business ethics at least some
better ethics that would be more beneficial than some authoratarian
corporate hierarchy. =\


HoundDawg
http://www.phpGamingSite.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp

Re: PB no more.....



- Original Message -
From: Justin Fuhrer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hey,

 Is bickering the only thing that happens on this list?  No offense, but in

No, there are other threads as well. =P

 the past few days this list has been probably 90% flaming/bickering over
 peoples' opposing views on Valve, Punkbuster, and the future of
CS/Halflife.

Hey, I don't know how long you've been around here, but, this is a valid
thread and an extreme concern of many.  Rather than just idling and lurking
waiting for a response from Valve, we're discussing our viewpoints and
hopefully both PB and Valve will realize the impact and the sensitivity of
this issue.  If you don't care about this thread, ignore it.

 I think that those who aren't directly involved with any of these
companies
 should stop trying to tell us what's going on behind the scenes...  No one
 knows except those who actually work for Valve and/or Punkbuster!  Why
can't
 we just wait and see what happens instead of fighting over things we don't
 even know the whole story on.

You are correct in that we don't know.  All we are asking is that we do hear
something and have more information on this issue.  We are debating on all
of our prior experiences and mine tell me to not just idle waiting anymore.

 I respect your opinions, but can we please act like mature adults?

?  From what I can tell, both HL Server and I are still acting like mature
adults here.  Neither one of us have really used any crude language or
extreme flaming.  Just different viewpoints and opinions, unfortunately.


HoundDawg
http://www.phpGamingSite.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp

RE: PB no more.....

2001-09-26 Thread Stan Hoeppner



Quoted from below:

 Anyway ... play devil's advocate, and really think about this ... Don't go
 on your stance or hearsay ... evaluate the facts ...

The problem is we don't have all the facts.  That's what we're asking for.
What is Valve's reason for not sending a response to all the 1000's of
emails to this list regarding this issue?  What is Valve's position?  This
is all we want to know.

BTW.  What is the last product Valve made any money on?  Is Valve going
under?  Do they have cash flow?  Do they have new product in the pipe?  How
many people at Valve still work on HL/HLDS code fixing and new features?  Is
HL retail revenue funding this continuing work?  If not, where is the money
coming from?  Maybe I'm in the dark as I don't read the gaming press, but
has Valve published or sold a new product since HL, besides revenue from
retail CS?

StanTheMan
TheHardwareFreak
www.hardwarefreak.devastation.cc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



 -Original Message-
 From: HL Server [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:00 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: PB no more.



 At 07:48 AM 09/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
 If you need more enlightenment from PB's side, go through their
 forumseven start with this topic:
 http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3bb
 17dfa6bf6;act=ST;f=12;t=1694http://www.crimeprev.org/mat/
 cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3bb17dfa6bf6;act=ST;f=12;t=1694

 This forum is a great read ... I think everyone that's
 interested in PB
 should read it ...

 I also think it's a hoot all you pretend software
 developers are giving
 VALVe poop about a product that has successfully sold
 millions of copies
 (and probably bootlegged as many) ...

 They didn't ask any one of you to set to code any additional
 utilities for
 their program ... They didn't stop you either ... Anything
 outside of VALVe
 is volunteer work ...  I'm sure they appreciate it and
 recognize it, but I
 don't think it's going to sway any of their decisions in the way their
 program will go ...  VALVe makes a change, it's up to the
 volunteers to
 change their utility ... not the other way around ...

 And another thing I got out of that forum ... It takes 12-24
 hours to hack
 new patches of HL, but only 10-15 minutes to avert PB ...  As
 I stated in a
 previous message, I have run PB with the false sense of security that
 people were not cheating on my servers ... This has been a
 false sense of
 security ... PB simply doesn't work, confirmed.  It's not
 like this is a
 new hack either ...  It's not like it's one they don't know
 about either
 ...  Publicly distributed, named and accessible ...

 I think the only thing that need be done is for VALVe to
 decide someday,
 Hey, you know, we ought to stamp out the ability to cheat with our
 program. and from then on it will be history ...  VALVe
 didn't ask Tony
 Ray to spend every waking moment away from work and family to
 develop PB
 ... Tony Ray should expect nothing in return ...

 If VALVe thought it was worth it to work with him on a project to stop
 cheating, they would have done it by now ... Now PB is going
 corporate with
 a product that is easily averted, he has distanced himself
 even further
 from any community here in my opinion ... I think VALVe is perfectly
 capable of accomplishing all of this on their own ...  I
 think as a result
 of this, you will see security implemented in VALVe's stuff,
 and the death
 of PB ...  Not the other way around ...

 Tony has leaked info of PB approved stamps on games coming
 out .. blah
 blah ... I think it was smoke to up the price ...  this is
 just my opinion ...

 Anyway ... play devil's advocate, and really think about this
 ... Don't go
 on your stance or hearsay ... evaluate the facts ...

RE: PB doesn't even work, confirmed!

2001-09-26 Thread Stan Hoeppner



 It's like cutting a stranger's lawn
 and expecting a
 Hamilton for it ...

This is a bad analogy.  The point being made is that a question has been
posed to Valve by the HLDS server admin mailing list.  Valve has not yet
given a response.  The popularity of Half-Life, and it's continued
(apparently) financial success is due to the number of *free* public servers
available for consumers of the client to play on, AND the number of MODs
available for the HL engine.

That said, watch what would happen to Valve if all the HLDS server admins
decided to boycott the company, and shut down all those 10,000+ HLDS
servers.  I'm talking permanently.  You would see a much different attitude
from Valve if this happened.  HL has experienced a nice success snowball
effect because of all the *free* support given to it by those who host it
and develop for it.

If CS would have never been developed, HL would be a has been or classic
game already.  There would be no recurring revenue.  Valve would already be
belly up, or close to it.

The point that many are making is, without public servers (and those who
host them), and without cool mods that extend the useful life of the HL
engine, few would play HL, and therefore few would continue to buy it.
Thus, bye bye Valve.  It seems the general consensus is that Valve owes
something back to those who have helped make Valve financially successful,
whom without, Valve would be nothing.  No, Valve didn't ask for this, but
they'd be nowhere without it

StanTheMan
TheHardwareFreak
www.hardwarefreak.devastation.cc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



 -Original Message-
 From: HL Server [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 2:37 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: PB doesn't even work, confirmed!



 At 11:18 AM 09/25/2001 -0500, you wrote:
   Why do you deserve to know anything about VALVe's business?
 
 Because we've volunteered hundreds of man hours and
 thousands of dollars to
 supporting their product.  Because it's not unreasonable to
 have *some*
 sort of
 response. The amount of money and time spent on serving this
 game for them
 is just staggering,
 and I'm glad I'm not stuck with most of y'all's colo bills
 and hardware
 bills...

 snipped a lot, but my stance is this ... VALVe didn't ask you
 to do it, you
 did it on your own ...  It's like cutting a stranger's lawn
 and expecting a
 Hamilton for it ...

   It's a shame, PB is NOT an obstacle for any cheaters ...
 
 Heh, since most of these hacks will *not* run in Win2k, I've
 been unable
 to test
 them for a while...  This is very possible, and I have to rely on the
 information from folks like you and the other members of
 this list, for
 instance, for the only half-way reliable reports on what's
 caught and what's
 not.  Heh, and then you get conflicting responses, and
 you're like, Well?
 Which is it?  Caught or not?  Heh, ah, the life of a
 non-cheating
 admin ;)
 
 Eric (the Deacon remix)
 http://www.firekite.com

 Hack works perfectly fine on W2K ... I wouldn't run anything else ...

 I finally got fed up after months of being hit from across
 the map and when
 the link presented itself, I decided to test my anti-cheat armor ... I
 found out that there is no armor and it's been going on
 forever ... It was
 never even hindered by PB ...  I would have shared this
 information even if
 PB didn't decide to bail on HL

Re: PB issue non-response from Valve. Shut all our serversdownto boycott?