Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[John McKown]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Jesse 1 Robinson <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
wrote:

> Speaking of '6' (don't understand the reference),


​Military / police term. I thought it was fairly standard. I think ​it
originally comes from WWII pilots. Your 6 o'clock was directly behind you.
So "I've got your 6" is the modern for "I've got your back."



> Motel 6 may have something to offer here. I've done a lot of installs over
> the years, mostly push-pull. Never dreamed of doing one where there was no
> sysprog within arm's reach. Persuade the client to cough up a few hundred
> extra bucks.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-302-7535 Office
> robin...@sce.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of John McKown
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:30 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2
> states away from you).
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <
> brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites
> > remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial
> > support for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some
> > are quite small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise and not
> > being "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a suite of
> > system automation products that we maintain at several hundred sites.
> >
> > Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if
> > you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer
> > room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need
> > to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that
> > you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next
> > building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down
> > drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations
> > group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed
> > into the computer room.  We (systems
> > programmers) always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought
> > it for so long. :)
> >
> > The important thing, and the the clients expect it, is that we are
> > always productive.  We aren't there to baby-sit the site, we are
> > constantly moving forward on whatever it is that we need to get done
> > for them.  You have to always have a plan and be able to show
> > progress.  You can't just bill the hours, you have to show what you
> > did.  You can't sit around and talk about the kids/wife/parents with
> > anyone.  When you are off-site, you're not there to just generate
> > hours, you there to get things done as well, actually better than it
> > can be accomplished by someone at the site.  Sometimes the clients
> > will be amazed at the "speed" that we get things done, but some of
> > that is just that we can focus on the project without a lot of
> > interruptions.  Some of it is because we have enough people here that
> > if you run into a problem you can't get a handle on, someone else you
> have access to will likely already have the solution.
> >
>
> ​I just learned that I will be the "complete push" at this location. That
> is, the one and only sysprog responsible for z/OS and all program products,
> including DB2, IMS, & CICS. I gather that I will control CICS, but only
> responsible for installation & maintenance of the IMS & DB2 software, no
> DBA type responsibilities. Good thing since I can barely spell them. But it
> is a bit nerve racking for me. I do like having someone watching my 6. Or
> just to be around in case something horrible happens. ​
>
>
>
> >
> > I don't use video chat, we have it, but I don't think it's necessary
> > and just plain don't use it.  I generate a LOT of email and I document
> > everything that I do.  If you can't type well, then get one of the PC
> > based typing/dictation programs.
>
>
> ​Luckily, I can type fairly well. At least compared to most sysprogs &
> programmers. I am a touch typist and have been for years (like back in high
> school).​
>
>
>
> > You need to have a way to keep track of EXACTLY what you are working
> > on, especially when you are supporting several sites at the same time.
> > You must be able to communicat

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Speaking of '6' (don't understand the reference), Motel 6 may have something to 
offer here. I've done a lot of installs over the years, mostly push-pull. Never 
dreamed of doing one where there was no sysprog within arm's reach. Persuade 
the client to cough up a few hundred extra bucks. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman < 
brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites 
> remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial 
> support for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some 
> are quite small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise and not 
> being "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a suite of 
> system automation products that we maintain at several hundred sites.
>
> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if 
> you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer 
> room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need 
> to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that 
> you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next 
> building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down 
> drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations 
> group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed 
> into the computer room.  We (systems
> programmers) always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought 
> it for so long. :)
>
> The important thing, and the the clients expect it, is that we are 
> always productive.  We aren't there to baby-sit the site, we are 
> constantly moving forward on whatever it is that we need to get done 
> for them.  You have to always have a plan and be able to show 
> progress.  You can't just bill the hours, you have to show what you 
> did.  You can't sit around and talk about the kids/wife/parents with 
> anyone.  When you are off-site, you're not there to just generate 
> hours, you there to get things done as well, actually better than it 
> can be accomplished by someone at the site.  Sometimes the clients 
> will be amazed at the "speed" that we get things done, but some of 
> that is just that we can focus on the project without a lot of 
> interruptions.  Some of it is because we have enough people here that 
> if you run into a problem you can't get a handle on, someone else you have 
> access to will likely already have the solution.
>

​I just learned that I will be the "complete push" at this location. That is, 
the one and only sysprog responsible for z/OS and all program products, 
including DB2, IMS, & CICS. I gather that I will control CICS, but only 
responsible for installation & maintenance of the IMS & DB2 software, no DBA 
type responsibilities. Good thing since I can barely spell them. But it is a 
bit nerve racking for me. I do like having someone watching my 6. Or just to be 
around in case something horrible happens. ​



>
> I don't use video chat, we have it, but I don't think it's necessary 
> and just plain don't use it.  I generate a LOT of email and I document 
> everything that I do.  If you can't type well, then get one of the PC 
> based typing/dictation programs.


​Luckily, I can type fairly well. At least compared to most sysprogs & 
programmers. I am a touch typist and have been for years (like back in high 
school).​



> You need to have a way to keep track of EXACTLY what you are working 
> on, especially when you are supporting several sites at the same time.  
> You must be able to communicate and you have to make sure that you 
> stay in front of the ball at all times, you can't be 
> reaction-oriented, you must be proactive.  You have to use (if they 
> have it) or set up (if they don't) a problem control system, or you will 
> become so bogged down in "little"
> things that the big issues will slip away and you will become ineffective.
>

​Ah, the above is very germane to this. I get the impression that they don't 
have anything like this set up and that _I_ will be at least one of the main 
architects of how to do it. I don't know if they would be open to a vendor ($$) 
solution or if they would expect me to roll one on my own (which I did at 
another company - it worked

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

We have maintained physical NIP consoles literally forever: as long as we've 
had IBM mainframes. Until maybe the mid-90s, there was no alternative. Now 
there are several, ranging from OSA connected PC emulation to the HMC itself, 
local or remote. I've been questioning our configuration for a while. Some 
issues:

1. There must be a NIP console available to an 'operations person', whether 
designated Operator or button-pushing sysprog. While most of our IPLs are 
handled entirely by automation at least as far as ' IEE389I MVS COMMAND 
PROCESSING AVAILABLE', there are conditions that stop IPL before that with a 
WTOR. The most notorious is duplicate volser. The system will wait forever even 
though you may not care at all which volume stays online. 

2. The HMC is not the friendliest user interface to z/OS. Nuff said.

3. If you have a lot of systems to manage, the HMC becomes more and more 
awkward. We have 14 z/OS images on a daily basis plus half a dozen more during 
DR exercises. Any of them might need NIP interaction at some point. HMC gets 
even more awkward. 

Years ago we went with Visara VCC, a mid-range application that connects to 
each CEC via OSA-C. An operator can reach any system in the enterprise by 
selecting it from a menu. More than one person can access the same system at 
one time, although the effect of multiple--maybe conflicting--commands can be 
troublesome. 99.9% of the time VCC is a fabulous tool, but we have had 
instances of VCC misbehavior. Once a system is 'up', there are other operator 
interfaces available. At NIP time however, which I define as anything before 
IEE389I, a NIP console as designated in the IODF may be required. If the 
failing VCC 'device' is a NIP, we can be SOL. If the VCC failure is detected by 
NIP, the operator interface will automatically switch to HMC SYSCONS. But we've 
had cases where NIP thinks the VCC console is available. Only it ain't. I know 
of no other way out than to force the VCC chpid offline at the HMC and reIPL. 
With no path to a console, NIP will push the operator interface to SYSCONS. 

So, if we might require the HMC in a pinch, maybe we should step back and 
define no NIP console at all. Let VCC handle MVS command processing but always 
use the HMC at IPL time. This assumes of course that the HMC is accessible 
remotely via VPN (or whatever). If that is prohibited by management, then never 
mind. But if it's permissible, then the question is one of operational 
usability, best practice, and worst-case CYA. 

End of treatise.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Brian Westerman
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 1:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data 
center is 2 states away from you).

I'm actually kind of surprised at the number of sites that don't code the 
OSA-ICC consoles as NIP available.  They were designed to function in that 
manner, and you can then always have remote access (assuming you have a VPN).  
If you don't have a VPN set up for your mainframe, you are just asking for 
trouble.  If you do have one, then not using it to support the box seems very 
silly indeed.

Setting up a separate PC (unless your box doesn't support the ICC consoles) is 
really not necessary.

Brian


On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:17:25 -0400, Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com> wrote:

>Our remote systems support staff have multiple remote access to the
>consoles:
>1) The initial IPL console is on a laptop in the computer room with 
>Windows 7 PRO. If needed, this box can be remotely accessed using RDP 
>over a VPN.
>2) A backup console is always running on a second laptop with the same 
>RDP over VPN access.
>3) Each sysprog has their own dedicated console which is accessed via 
>the OSA-C. I connect and keep my personal console running all the time 
>but minimized.
>4) We have one person in town that lives only 5 minutes from the 
>data-center. We can always call them.
>5) There is another company in the same building that manages WinTel 
>servers. They have access to our data-center and can be called 24/7.
>
>Tony Thigpen
>
>Jerry Whitteridge wrote on 09/28/2016 01:34 PM:
>> This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have 
>> remote access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)
>>
>> Jerry Whitteridge
>> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
>> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
>> 925 738 9443
>> Corporate Tieline - 89443
>>
>> If you feel in control
>> you just aren't going fast enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainfram

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Dana Mitchell]

>On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 3:03 AM, Brian Westerman <
>
> I'm actually kind of surprised at the number of sites that don't code the
> OSA-ICC consoles as NIP available.  They were designed to function in that
> manner, and you can then always have remote access (assuming you have a
> VPN).  

Our OSA-ICC consoles are limited to a physically separate network within the 
datacenter and operator area due to not being encrypted.  With the announcement 
that z13 supports TLS for OSA-ICC sessions, we may be able to open up OSA 
access to a greater extent (if and when we get z13's)

>On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 07:23:29 -0500, John McKown  
>wrote:
>
>​Actually, I'm likely in the small minority (perhaps of 1) who really likes 
>having _no_ NIPCONs at all. I actually _prefer_ to IPL via the "System
>Messages" interface on the HMC. 

I'm with John on this.  At least I was until IBM frequently broke OSM with 
their unworkable Java dependencies.  I'm looking forward to getting the HMC 
updates that remove the last of Java from HMC code.

Dana

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Tony Thigpen]

> Setting up a separate PC (unless your box doesn't support the
> ICC consoles) is really not necessary.

Experience suggests otherwise.

The separate PCs for the primary consoles has come about because of our 
experience with network failures. They are connected directly to the 
same switch as the OSA-C. So, you never loose all the consoles over an 
extended timeframe. (We don't have anyone on-site so they can fail and 
we might not know it for weeks.)


Laptops are used because they are not on the same UPS as the CPU's (we 
have several z CPUs). The battery gives us a long non-power run-time 
since the lid is closed and the screen is off. (We only access them via 
RDP.)


Tony Thigpen

Brian Westerman wrote on 09/30/2016 04:03 AM:

I'm actually kind of surprised at the number of sites that don't code the 
OSA-ICC consoles as NIP available.  They were designed to function in that 
manner, and you can then always have remote access (assuming you have a VPN).  
If you don't have a VPN set up for your mainframe, you are just asking for 
trouble.  If you do have one, then not using it to support the box seems very 
silly indeed.

Setting up a separate PC (unless your box doesn't support the ICC consoles) is 
really not necessary.

Brian


On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:17:25 -0400, Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com> wrote:


Our remote systems support staff have multiple remote access to the
consoles:
1) The initial IPL console is on a laptop in the computer room with
Windows 7 PRO. If needed, this box can be remotely accessed using RDP
over a VPN.
2) A backup console is always running on a second laptop with the same
RDP over VPN access.
3) Each sysprog has their own dedicated console which is accessed via
the OSA-C. I connect and keep my personal console running all the time
but minimized.
4) We have one person in town that lives only 5 minutes from the
data-center. We can always call them.
5) There is another company in the same building that manages WinTel
servers. They have access to our data-center and can be called 24/7.

Tony Thigpen

Jerry Whitteridge wrote on 09/28/2016 01:34 PM:

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).


On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> 
wrote:

Hi John,

Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, all over 
the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some 
are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our 
expertise and not being "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a 
suite of system automation products that we maintain at several hundred sites.

Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if
you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer
room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need
to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that
you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next
building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down
drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations
group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed
into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) always won that
argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so long. :)

——SNIP———

I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were locked 
out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get the system 
back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator commands.

Ed

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Lucas Rosalen]

John, make it a 2-people list then :)
Since I've started in mainframes (2006), our operational procedures were to
test HMC connectivity a couple hours prior to the IPLs and logon to OSM
consoles, so I guess I got used to that. Now it's even better with the
Java-less OSM interface, less risk of not being able to open it

---
*Lucas Rosalen*
Emails: rosalen.lu...@gmail.com / *lrosa...@pl.ibm.com
*
LinkedIn: http://br.linkedin.com/in/lrosalen
Phone: +48 (71) 792 809 198


2016-09-30 14:23 GMT+02:00 John McKown :

> On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 3:03 AM, Brian Westerman <
> brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm actually kind of surprised at the number of sites that don't code the
> > OSA-ICC consoles as NIP available.  They were designed to function in
> that
> > manner, and you can then always have remote access (assuming you have a
> > VPN).  If you don't have a VPN set up for your mainframe, you are just
> > asking for trouble.  If you do have one, then not using it to support the
> > box seems very silly indeed.
> >
>
> ​We don't have a real VPN here. We used to. But we now use MS Terminal
> Services Gateway. Basically that means your Windows (Linux & OSX cannot be
> used) home machine will do a "mstsc" (remote terminal) connection to your
> work desktop via the Terminal Services Gateway machine. This isolates your
> home machine from the work LAN entirely. The bad part is that if your work
> PC is down (say due to a transient power hit), you can't get logged in to
> the system at all. Somebody needs to go into the office and power up your
> machine for you. And the office is abandoned starting at 16:59:59.
> every work day. There is normally nobody here at night or on the weekends.​
>
>
>
> >
> > Setting up a separate PC (unless your box doesn't support the ICC
> > consoles) is really not necessary.
> >
>
> ​Actually, I'm likely in the small minority (perhaps of 1) who really likes
> having _no_ NIPCONs at all. I actually _prefer_ to IPL via the "System
> Messages" interface on the HMC. ​For a console session, I just use SMCS. I
> wanted to use an OSA-ICC. And I even have an "extra" OSA handy. But the LAN
> people just didn't want to be bothered to hook it into _their_ LAN. They
> were running short of ports on the switches. And this place is, uh,
> "frugal". I.e. they won't buy anything new until something critical is near
> failing (or actually has failed). They just want _out_ of the "I.T.
> business" entirely. I would guess that in another 2-3 years, the I.T.
> department will be the CIO and maybe an assistant to who manage the
> interaction with the outsourcer. I'm not too sure about local "desktop
> support". That may remain in house. Or maybe there are companies which do
> that too.
>
>
> > Brian
> >
>
> --
> Heisenberg may have been here.
>
> Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[John McKown]

On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 3:03 AM, Brian Westerman <
brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:

> I'm actually kind of surprised at the number of sites that don't code the
> OSA-ICC consoles as NIP available.  They were designed to function in that
> manner, and you can then always have remote access (assuming you have a
> VPN).  If you don't have a VPN set up for your mainframe, you are just
> asking for trouble.  If you do have one, then not using it to support the
> box seems very silly indeed.
>

​We don't have a real VPN here. We used to. But we now use MS Terminal
Services Gateway. Basically that means your Windows (Linux & OSX cannot be
used) home machine will do a "mstsc" (remote terminal) connection to your
work desktop via the Terminal Services Gateway machine. This isolates your
home machine from the work LAN entirely. The bad part is that if your work
PC is down (say due to a transient power hit), you can't get logged in to
the system at all. Somebody needs to go into the office and power up your
machine for you. And the office is abandoned starting at 16:59:59.
every work day. There is normally nobody here at night or on the weekends.​



>
> Setting up a separate PC (unless your box doesn't support the ICC
> consoles) is really not necessary.
>

​Actually, I'm likely in the small minority (perhaps of 1) who really likes
having _no_ NIPCONs at all. I actually _prefer_ to IPL via the "System
Messages" interface on the HMC. ​For a console session, I just use SMCS. I
wanted to use an OSA-ICC. And I even have an "extra" OSA handy. But the LAN
people just didn't want to be bothered to hook it into _their_ LAN. They
were running short of ports on the switches. And this place is, uh,
"frugal". I.e. they won't buy anything new until something critical is near
failing (or actually has failed). They just want _out_ of the "I.T.
business" entirely. I would guess that in another 2-3 years, the I.T.
department will be the CIO and maybe an assistant to who manage the
interaction with the outsourcer. I'm not too sure about local "desktop
support". That may remain in house. Or maybe there are companies which do
that too.


> Brian
>

-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Brian Westerman]

Wow, I wonder how surprised all of the sites we support remotely would be to 
find out that they are not running a "true production environment"?  :)

Brian 

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 22:38:34 -0500, Edward Gould  
wrote:

>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:49 PM, Jerry Whitteridge 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Let me expand on that previous comment.
>> 
>> If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console 
>> access is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes 
>> an issue. The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a 
>> rethink about console design, deployment and access from the traditional 
>> models. Both my Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be 
>> run from either Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR 
>> considerations as well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the 
>> console support but now we have access to any console from any authorized 
>> remote location without a physical presense.
>> 
>> Jerry Whitteridge
>> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
>> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
>> 925 738 9443
>> Corporate Tieline - 89443
>———SNIP——
>
>Jerry:
>
>I will agree with your clarification with some minor cavets. That is all well 
>and good for a “new” DC. The rest of us mortals do not have the luxury of 
>having such a set up. 
>Personally I have not had much need for the HMC. It is clunky and far to easy 
>to bring down the entire sysplex, especially if you don’t use it everyday. in 
>fact I dread the time I have to “use” it as I am sure without thinking I will 
>crash the systems. Having seen (not by my hand) the entire plex being lost 
>just by hands of the in-experianced is not for the feint of heart.
>
>I know of one “system” that is run via remote by about 1000 miles. There is so 
>much non trust between the sites and the political cr** that ends up in finger 
>pointing I am glad I have nothing to do with the mess.
>
>I suppose its fine if the site/remote gets along but with the charged finger 
>pointing that goes on I don’t see it realistically well implemented especially 
>in a real environment where finger checks cause the stock market not to open. 
>Perhaps in a college environment it would work but not in a true production 
>environment.
>
>Ed
>
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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Brian Westerman]

I'm actually kind of surprised at the number of sites that don't code the 
OSA-ICC consoles as NIP available.  They were designed to function in that 
manner, and you can then always have remote access (assuming you have a VPN).  
If you don't have a VPN set up for your mainframe, you are just asking for 
trouble.  If you do have one, then not using it to support the box seems very 
silly indeed.

Setting up a separate PC (unless your box doesn't support the ICC consoles) is 
really not necessary.

Brian


On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:17:25 -0400, Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com> wrote:

>Our remote systems support staff have multiple remote access to the 
>consoles:
>1) The initial IPL console is on a laptop in the computer room with 
>Windows 7 PRO. If needed, this box can be remotely accessed using RDP 
>over a VPN.
>2) A backup console is always running on a second laptop with the same 
>RDP over VPN access.
>3) Each sysprog has their own dedicated console which is accessed via 
>the OSA-C. I connect and keep my personal console running all the time 
>but minimized.
>4) We have one person in town that lives only 5 minutes from the 
>data-center. We can always call them.
>5) There is another company in the same building that manages WinTel 
>servers. They have access to our data-center and can be called 24/7.
>
>Tony Thigpen
>
>Jerry Whitteridge wrote on 09/28/2016 01:34 PM:
>> This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
>> access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)
>>
>> Jerry Whitteridge
>> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
>> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
>> 925 738 9443
>> Corporate Tieline - 89443
>>
>> If you feel in control
>> you just aren't going fast enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
>> Behalf Of Edward Gould
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
>> states away from you).
>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman 
>>> <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites 
>>> remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support 
>>> for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite 
>>> small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being 
>>> "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a suite of system 
>>> automation products that we maintain at several hundred sites.
>>>
>>> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if
>>> you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer
>>> room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need
>>> to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that
>>> you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next
>>> building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down
>>> drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations
>>> group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed
>>> into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) always won that
>>> argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so long. :)
>> ——SNIP———
>>
>> I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
>> running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
>> needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were 
>> locked out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get 
>> the system back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator 
>> commands.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> --
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>> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
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>> e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than 
>> the recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is 
>> intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of 
>> this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you 
>> have received this mes

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Tony Thigpen  wrote:
> 
> Times have changed.
> 
> Just ask the auditors if they have VPN access to their files so that they can 
> work from home. If they say yes, then you should be able to have VPN consoles 
> too.
> 
> Or, just set it up and don't tell them. If they ever figure it out, just say 
> that 'Joe' (some retired auditor) approved it many years ago. Let them prove 
> he did not.
> 
> Tony Thigpen

———No They don’t.
Ed
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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:12 AM, John Mattson  wrote:
> 
>Fascinating subject for most of us, just look at all the replies.
> Makes me sorry that I am close to retirement when things keep getting more
> interesting.
>Many years ago that I started doing all of the zOS maintenance because
> the rest of the group was eliminated or switched to Unix/Win.  Incredible
> tools developed allowed that to happen.  I could download and install major
> systems in no time at all.  We went from a bunch of zOS people doing
> systems to one zOS and a much larger bunch doing Unix/Win. They called this
> "progress".  Hmmm.
> How remote support happened at Acme Anvils. I installed TCPIP on the
> MF when no one in management had any interest in it. I bought and paid for
> a very expensive cell phone and software many years ago which allowed me to
> login to work so that I could play Renaissance music at faires all week-end
> while on-call. (amazing how many of us are also musicians)  Once others saw
> this, everyone had to have it.  It was worth every cent.
>After all these years the major obstacle to remote support is that
> management still had not learned how to manage it--- In my (not so) humble
> opinion.
>My comment to John McKown is "what happens when you want to go on a
> real vacation", you know, Europe or Asia?  I realize that one reason I am
> at my current consultant job is so that the FTE can go on vacation.
> Humbling, but at this point, no problem. I make myself useful.
> ———SNIP——

At one place I worked you weren’t allowed to go out of state let alone out of 
the country.
Another place 2 people on the team had to stay in city for any 3 day weekend.
No one could take simultanious vacations.

Ed
 

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Jerry Whitteridge 
>  wrote:
> 
> I take some umbrage if you are implying my sites are not "true production" - 
> My outages are as costly to our business as any could be.
> The fact your sites have trust issues as well as training issues does not 
> make other approaches "non-production". We've seen many on here describe 
> similar scenarios as mine - but there are many ways to skin a cat and not 
> everything works in every site. Yours seems to have a great number of issues 
> form your postings over the years.
> 
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
> 925 738 9443
> Corporate Tieline - 89443
> 
> If you feel in control
> you just aren't going fast enough.
——SNIP———
Sorry in my experience not having a stock exchange not open in the morning is a 
COSTLY issue. In another life the government fined us for every minute of 
downtime, talk about career limiting options.
The stock exchange means millions (tens of) in fines.

I have also seen where in some environments that someone gets yelled at and 
maybe (it has to be stupid) firing.

Ed
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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Barry Merrill]

"amazing how many of us are also musicians"

In 1971-2, State Farm hired 1500 would-be coders and send them thru 9 weeks
to learn to code in PL/1, and they had a job at the end if they had learned
to code. The three largest groups of successful coders, in about equal count,
were those that played a musical instrument, or knew more than one language, 
or had a math/engineering degree.

Barry Merrill

 Herbert W. Barry Merrill, PhD
 President-Programmer
 Merrill Consultants
 MXG Software
 10717 Cromwell Drive  technical questions: supp...@mxg.com
 Dallas, TX 75229
 http://www.mxg.comadmin questions: ad...@mxg.com
 tel: 214 351 1966
 fax: 214 350 3694




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).

This is a great post! Quite some years ago a local YMCA activities director 
acquired a pager. People thought she was burdening herself with an electronic 
tether. Quite the opposite, she argued. She trusted her staff for most 
problems, but if she was needed, she could respond immediately--from the pay 
phone nearest the beach where she was lounging. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Mattson
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

Fascinating subject for most of us, just look at all the replies.
Makes me sorry that I am close to retirement when things keep getting more 
interesting.
Many years ago that I started doing all of the zOS maintenance because the 
rest of the group was eliminated or switched to Unix/Win.  Incredible tools 
developed allowed that to happen.  I could download and install major systems 
in no time at all.  We went from a bunch of zOS people doing systems to one zOS 
and a much larger bunch doing Unix/Win. They called this "progress".  Hmmm.
 How remote support happened at Acme Anvils. I installed TCPIP on the MF 
when no one in management had any interest in it. I bought and paid for a very 
expensive cell phone and software many years ago which allowed me to login to 
work so that I could play Renaissance music at faires all week-end while 
on-call. (amazing how many of us are also musicians)  Once others saw this, 
everyone had to have it.  It was worth every cent.
After all these years the major obstacle to remote support is that 
management still had not learned how to manage it--- In my (not so) humble 
opinion.
My comment to John McKown is "what happens when you want to go on a real 
vacation", you know, Europe or Asia?  I realize that one reason I am at my 
current consultant job is so that the FTE can go on vacation.
Humbling, but at this point, no problem. I make myself useful.


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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

edgould1...@comcast.net (Edward Gould) writes:
> Brian:
> One of there specific episodes we had was that the master console was
> the only one that was “talking”. As to other options you listed the
> auditors cut them off years ago and no use arguing with them (BTDT).
> As for HMC remote access again the auditors wouldn’t allow it no
> matter how much we argued (besides I sort of agree with them on the
> HMC issue).
> I won’t go into the old xmas party story I use regularly on here and what 
> could happen.
>
> Ed

For CP67 in the 60s to move to keeping the system available 7x24 a
number of things were done for online use. Part of it was reducing the
cost of operating off-shift ... dark room, no operator onsite, etc.

Initially offshift was very light, not justifying the cost of keeping
the system up ... but w/o 7x24 availability it wouldn't encourage
non-primetime online use.

Part of support was allowing "operator's console" to be other than the
1052-7 system console. Other part was auto fast failures with automatic
reboot and system up w/o manual intervention.

This was still in the days of when systems were leased with charges
based on the "system meter". The "system meter" ran whenver the
processor and/or any channels was busy. One trick was channel program
that would let channels go idle, but would instantly wake up for any
arriving characters. Another issue was that the "system meter" would
continue to run for 400milliseconds after all processing and channels
were completely idle. Lots of system work was to allow "system meter" to
stop (no rental/leased charges) when system idle, but immediately
activate when there was anything to do. Trivia: MVS had a system time
task that woke up every 400milliseconds long after business converted
from rent/lease to sales (guarenteed that system meter never stopped).

Another issue was that the science center had ported apl\360 to CMS for
CMS\APL ... and was letting other IBM locations use the system. The
business planners in Armonk loaded the most valuable of all corporate
data on the cambridge system to run business models. The security of the
system had to meet very high security standards (besides being available
7x24 and run dark room w/o human intervention) ... especially since
non-employees had online access to the system; students, staff,
professors, etc at universities in the boston/cambridge area.

past ibm cambridge science center posts
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

There were some spin-offs from the science center that started using
CP67 to offer commerical online services (later migrating to VM370).
They were also expecially sensitive to both operating costs and
sensitive to security issues ... especially moving up the value stream
to the wallstreet financial community (where large competing financial
institutiosn were using the same systems).

past posts about commercial online (virtual machine based) services
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#online

There are some similarities between what was being done for these
operations in the 60s and what the large cloud operators are doing now
in their megadatacenters (hundreds of thousand of systems with tens of
millions of processors per megadatacenter) for costs drop to near zero
when idle but immediately instant on when needed.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Tony Thigpen]

Times have changed.

Just ask the auditors if they have VPN access to their files so that 
they can work from home. If they say yes, then you should be able to 
have VPN consoles too.


Or, just set it up and don't tell them. If they ever figure it out, just 
say that 'Joe' (some retired auditor) approved it many years ago. Let 
them prove he did not.


Tony Thigpen

Edward Gould wrote on 09/29/2016 03:44 AM:

On Sep 28, 2016, at 11:49 PM, Brian Westerman  
wrote:

Now that most mainframes (at least for the past several years) have OSA-ICC's, 
there is no reason to worry about not having a console connection remotely.  We 
routinely define 16 consoles and 16 3270's (non-console) to each LPAR (a few 
more for production LPARs sometimes).  I can't think of the last time that I 
couldn't get into any of the client mainframes that wasn't a flat-out network 
issue, and that can't normally be handled from z/OS anyway.  That's why you 
have network appliances to control the network.

You need to make sure that you ALWAYS have multiple points of entry to the 
LPARs available to you, TCP to OSA, TCP to OSA-ICC, LPAR to LPAR, etc.  If a 
site is still using and/or paying for a local control unit and 3270's when 
their system supports OSA-ICC they really need to think about spending their 
money more wisely.  I would trust an OSA-ICC a lot more than some old 3274.  
The ICC's are cheap enough that really worried sites can purchase a backup.

If you need to enter the computer room to get or keep your site working, then 
you are doing something wrong.  I'm not saying that you might not need to get 
to the HMC, but if you physically have to go to it to use it, then you have set 
things up badly.

We do have a couple very old sites (who don't have OSA-ICC's) where the backup 
way in is the HMC, and then a dial-up to the HMC in case the network to the HMC 
fails.  One of the banks we support still has local 3274 control units on a 
z800, and they have a phone line attached to a PC in the computer room that is 
wired directly to the 3274 via CUT.  We have never needed to use it, but we 
still test it out once a month.

In my opinion, in the end, it's up to you as the consultant to make sure that 
you can get in if there is a problem.  If you don't set it up right or can't, 
then you're in the wrong business.  This is not meant as a comment on anyone's 
abilities, not everyone is going to know how to set things up for 100% remote 
support without doing some research.  In my case, I helped to design some of 
it, so I'm able to work comfortably with it.

Brian


Brian:
One of there specific episodes we had was that the master console was the only 
one that was “talking”. As to other options you listed the auditors cut them 
off years ago and no use arguing with them (BTDT).
As for HMC remote access again the auditors wouldn’t allow it no matter how 
much we argued (besides I sort of agree with them on the HMC issue).
I won’t go into the old xmas party story I use regularly on here and what could 
happen.

Ed
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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

This is a great post! Quite some years ago a local YMCA activities director 
acquired a pager. People thought she was burdening herself with an electronic 
tether. Quite the opposite, she argued. She trusted her staff for most 
problems, but if she was needed, she could respond immediately--from the pay 
phone nearest the beach where she was lounging. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Mattson
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

Fascinating subject for most of us, just look at all the replies.
Makes me sorry that I am close to retirement when things keep getting more 
interesting.
Many years ago that I started doing all of the zOS maintenance because the 
rest of the group was eliminated or switched to Unix/Win.  Incredible tools 
developed allowed that to happen.  I could download and install major systems 
in no time at all.  We went from a bunch of zOS people doing systems to one zOS 
and a much larger bunch doing Unix/Win. They called this "progress".  Hmmm.
 How remote support happened at Acme Anvils. I installed TCPIP on the MF 
when no one in management had any interest in it. I bought and paid for a very 
expensive cell phone and software many years ago which allowed me to login to 
work so that I could play Renaissance music at faires all week-end while 
on-call. (amazing how many of us are also musicians)  Once others saw this, 
everyone had to have it.  It was worth every cent.
After all these years the major obstacle to remote support is that 
management still had not learned how to manage it--- In my (not so) humble 
opinion.
My comment to John McKown is "what happens when you want to go on a real 
vacation", you know, Europe or Asia?  I realize that one reason I am at my 
current consultant job is so that the FTE can go on vacation.
Humbling, but at this point, no problem. I make myself useful.


--
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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[John Mattson]

Fascinating subject for most of us, just look at all the replies.
Makes me sorry that I am close to retirement when things keep getting more
interesting.
Many years ago that I started doing all of the zOS maintenance because
the rest of the group was eliminated or switched to Unix/Win.  Incredible
tools developed allowed that to happen.  I could download and install major
systems in no time at all.  We went from a bunch of zOS people doing
systems to one zOS and a much larger bunch doing Unix/Win. They called this
"progress".  Hmmm.
 How remote support happened at Acme Anvils. I installed TCPIP on the
MF when no one in management had any interest in it. I bought and paid for
a very expensive cell phone and software many years ago which allowed me to
login to work so that I could play Renaissance music at faires all week-end
while on-call. (amazing how many of us are also musicians)  Once others saw
this, everyone had to have it.  It was worth every cent.
After all these years the major obstacle to remote support is that
management still had not learned how to manage it--- In my (not so) humble
opinion.
My comment to John McKown is "what happens when you want to go on a
real vacation", you know, Europe or Asia?  I realize that one reason I am
at my current consultant job is so that the FTE can go on vacation.
Humbling, but at this point, no problem. I make myself useful.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Oops - missed one point. We DON'T have OSA-ICC but have equivalent capabilities 
via our Visara console controllers.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Brian Westerman
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

Now that most mainframes (at least for the past several years) have OSA-ICC's, 
there is no reason to worry about not having a console connection remotely.  We 
routinely define 16 consoles and 16 3270's (non-console) to each LPAR (a few 
more for production LPARs sometimes).  I can't think of the last time that I 
couldn't get into any of the client mainframes that wasn't a flat-out network 
issue, and that can't normally be handled from z/OS anyway.  That's why you 
have network appliances to control the network.

You need to make sure that you ALWAYS have multiple points of entry to the 
LPARs available to you, TCP to OSA, TCP to OSA-ICC, LPAR to LPAR, etc.  If a 
site is still using and/or paying for a local control unit and 3270's when 
their system supports OSA-ICC they really need to think about spending their 
money more wisely.  I would trust an OSA-ICC a lot more than some old 3274.  
The ICC's are cheap enough that really worried sites can purchase a backup.

If you need to enter the computer room to get or keep your site working, then 
you are doing something wrong.  I'm not saying that you might not need to get 
to the HMC, but if you physically have to go to it to use it, then you have set 
things up badly.

We do have a couple very old sites (who don't have OSA-ICC's) where the backup 
way in is the HMC, and then a dial-up to the HMC in case the network to the HMC 
fails.  One of the banks we support still has local 3274 control units on a 
z800, and they have a phone line attached to a PC in the computer room that is 
wired directly to the 3274 via CUT.  We have never needed to use it, but we 
still test it out once a month.

In my opinion, in the end, it's up to you as the consultant to make sure that 
you can get in if there is a problem.  If you don't set it up right or can't, 
then you're in the wrong business.  This is not meant as a comment on anyone's 
abilities, not everyone is going to know how to set things up for 100% remote 
support without doing some research.  In my case, I helped to design some of 
it, so I'm able to work comfortably with it.

Brian

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Exactly !

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Brian Westerman
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

Now that most mainframes (at least for the past several years) have OSA-ICC's, 
there is no reason to worry about not having a console connection remotely.  We 
routinely define 16 consoles and 16 3270's (non-console) to each LPAR (a few 
more for production LPARs sometimes).  I can't think of the last time that I 
couldn't get into any of the client mainframes that wasn't a flat-out network 
issue, and that can't normally be handled from z/OS anyway.  That's why you 
have network appliances to control the network.

You need to make sure that you ALWAYS have multiple points of entry to the 
LPARs available to you, TCP to OSA, TCP to OSA-ICC, LPAR to LPAR, etc.  If a 
site is still using and/or paying for a local control unit and 3270's when 
their system supports OSA-ICC they really need to think about spending their 
money more wisely.  I would trust an OSA-ICC a lot more than some old 3274.  
The ICC's are cheap enough that really worried sites can purchase a backup.

If you need to enter the computer room to get or keep your site working, then 
you are doing something wrong.  I'm not saying that you might not need to get 
to the HMC, but if you physically have to go to it to use it, then you have set 
things up badly.

We do have a couple very old sites (who don't have OSA-ICC's) where the backup 
way in is the HMC, and then a dial-up to the HMC in case the network to the HMC 
fails.  One of the banks we support still has local 3274 control units on a 
z800, and they have a phone line attached to a PC in the computer room that is 
wired directly to the 3274 via CUT.  We have never needed to use it, but we 
still test it out once a month.

In my opinion, in the end, it's up to you as the consultant to make sure that 
you can get in if there is a problem.  If you don't set it up right or can't, 
then you're in the wrong business.  This is not meant as a comment on anyone's 
abilities, not everyone is going to know how to set things up for 100% remote 
support without doing some research.  In my case, I helped to design some of 
it, so I'm able to work comfortably with it.

Brian

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jerry Whitteridge]

I take some umbrage if you are implying my sites are not "true production" - My 
outages are as costly to our business as any could be.
The fact your sites have trust issues as well as training issues does not make 
other approaches "non-production". We've seen many on here describe similar 
scenarios as mine - but there are many ways to skin a cat and not everything 
works in every site. Yours seems to have a great number of issues form your 
postings over the years.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:49 PM, Jerry Whitteridge 
> <jerry.whitteri...@safeway.com> wrote:
>
> Let me expand on that previous comment.
>
> If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console 
> access is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes 
> an issue. The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a 
> rethink about console design, deployment and access from the traditional 
> models. Both my Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be 
> run from either Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR 
> considerations as well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the 
> console support but now we have access to any console from any authorized 
> remote location without a physical presense.
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
> 925 738 9443
> Corporate Tieline - 89443
———SNIP——

Jerry:

I will agree with your clarification with some minor cavets. That is all well 
and good for a “new” DC. The rest of us mortals do not have the luxury of 
having such a set up.
Personally I have not had much need for the HMC. It is clunky and far to easy 
to bring down the entire sysplex, especially if you don’t use it everyday. in 
fact I dread the time I have to “use” it as I am sure without thinking I will 
crash the systems. Having seen (not by my hand) the entire plex being lost just 
by hands of the in-experianced is not for the feint of heart.

I know of one “system” that is run via remote by about 1000 miles. There is so 
much non trust between the sites and the political cr** that ends up in finger 
pointing I am glad I have nothing to do with the mess.

I suppose its fine if the site/remote gets along but with the charged finger 
pointing that goes on I don’t see it realistically well implemented especially 
in a real environment where finger checks cause the stock market not to open. 
Perhaps in a college environment it would work but not in a true production 
environment.

Ed

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Ward, Mike S]

I also started in 1976. Time sure seems to have flown by.  I started with 2 
360/40's with 128K each. I never imagined I would see the day when you could 
address Terabytes of memory. :)

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lester, Bob
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

Hi Tony,

 Belt & Suspenders!  Still a good idea!  I'm an FTE, but have similar 
access to my CEC(s).

 I've been a MF SysProg for almost 40 years and - on this topic - I don't 
miss the old days at all!  When I started in 1976, there was no way to support 
remote sites effectively without being there.  These days, it's not only 
possible, but required in some environments.  And, totally workable if you have 
the right software/hardware/employer.

 Remote access, once secured, is a wonderful thing.  Beats the heck out of 
having to go into the office during the "maintenance" window!

Regards,
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Thigpen
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you). [ EXTERNAL ]

Our remote systems support staff have multiple remote access to the
consoles:
1) The initial IPL console is on a laptop in the computer room with Windows 7 
PRO. If needed, this box can be remotely accessed using RDP over a VPN.
2) A backup console is always running on a second laptop with the same RDP over 
VPN access.
3) Each sysprog has their own dedicated console which is accessed via the 
OSA-C. I connect and keep my personal console running all the time but 
minimized.
4) We have one person in town that lives only 5 minutes from the data-center. 
We can always call them.
5) There is another company in the same building that manages WinTel servers. 
They have access to our data-center and can be called 24/7.

Tony Thigpen

Jerry Whitteridge wrote on 09/28/2016 01:34 PM:
> This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have 
> remote access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
> 925 738 9443
> Corporate Tieline - 89443
>
> If you feel in control
> you just aren't going fast enough.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Edward Gould
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
> states away from you).
>
>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman 
>> <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites 
>> remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for 
>> another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small 
>> (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has 
>> never been an issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products 
>> that we maintain at several hundred sites.
>>
>> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if 
>> you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer 
>> room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need 
>> to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand 
>> that you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next 
>> building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some 
>> knock-down drag out fights between the systems programmers and the 
>> operations group on whether or not the systems programmers should 
>> ever be allowed into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) 
>> always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so 
>> long. :)
> ——SNIP———
>
> I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
> running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
> needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were 
> locked out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get 
> the system back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator 
> commands.
>
> Ed
>
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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Bruce Lightsey]

>Brian:
>One of there specific episodes we had was that the master console was the only 
>one that was “talking”. As to other options you listed the auditors cut them 
>>off years ago and no use arguing with them (BTDT).
>As for HMC remote access again the auditors wouldn’t allow it no matter how 
>much we argued (besides I sort of agree with them on the HMC issue).
>I won’t go into the old xmas party story I use regularly on here and what 
>could happen.

>Ed


We are in a similar situation - you don't touch the HMC (or master consoles) 
unless you have passed through  the access card stations and the biometric scan 
to get to the operations center and machine room. End-of-discussion.  That 
keeps the auditors happy ( IRS, SSA, some other 3-letter agencies, and our own 
- multiple times per year onsite ).  



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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 11:49 PM, Brian Westerman  
> wrote:
> 
> Now that most mainframes (at least for the past several years) have 
> OSA-ICC's, there is no reason to worry about not having a console connection 
> remotely.  We routinely define 16 consoles and 16 3270's (non-console) to 
> each LPAR (a few more for production LPARs sometimes).  I can't think of the 
> last time that I couldn't get into any of the client mainframes that wasn't a 
> flat-out network issue, and that can't normally be handled from z/OS anyway.  
> That's why you have network appliances to control the network.  
> 
> You need to make sure that you ALWAYS have multiple points of entry to the 
> LPARs available to you, TCP to OSA, TCP to OSA-ICC, LPAR to LPAR, etc.  If a 
> site is still using and/or paying for a local control unit and 3270's when 
> their system supports OSA-ICC they really need to think about spending their 
> money more wisely.  I would trust an OSA-ICC a lot more than some old 3274.  
> The ICC's are cheap enough that really worried sites can purchase a backup.  
> 
> If you need to enter the computer room to get or keep your site working, then 
> you are doing something wrong.  I'm not saying that you might not need to get 
> to the HMC, but if you physically have to go to it to use it, then you have 
> set things up badly. 
> 
> We do have a couple very old sites (who don't have OSA-ICC's) where the 
> backup way in is the HMC, and then a dial-up to the HMC in case the network 
> to the HMC fails.  One of the banks we support still has local 3274 control 
> units on a z800, and they have a phone line attached to a PC in the computer 
> room that is wired directly to the 3274 via CUT.  We have never needed to use 
> it, but we still test it out once a month.
> 
> In my opinion, in the end, it's up to you as the consultant to make sure that 
> you can get in if there is a problem.  If you don't set it up right or can't, 
> then you're in the wrong business.  This is not meant as a comment on 
> anyone's abilities, not everyone is going to know how to set things up for 
> 100% remote support without doing some research.  In my case, I helped to 
> design some of it, so I'm able to work comfortably with it. 
> 
> Brian

Brian:
One of there specific episodes we had was that the master console was the only 
one that was “talking”. As to other options you listed the auditors cut them 
off years ago and no use arguing with them (BTDT).
As for HMC remote access again the auditors wouldn’t allow it no matter how 
much we argued (besides I sort of agree with them on the HMC issue).
I won’t go into the old xmas party story I use regularly on here and what could 
happen.

Ed
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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Brian Westerman]

Now that most mainframes (at least for the past several years) have OSA-ICC's, 
there is no reason to worry about not having a console connection remotely.  We 
routinely define 16 consoles and 16 3270's (non-console) to each LPAR (a few 
more for production LPARs sometimes).  I can't think of the last time that I 
couldn't get into any of the client mainframes that wasn't a flat-out network 
issue, and that can't normally be handled from z/OS anyway.  That's why you 
have network appliances to control the network.  

You need to make sure that you ALWAYS have multiple points of entry to the 
LPARs available to you, TCP to OSA, TCP to OSA-ICC, LPAR to LPAR, etc.  If a 
site is still using and/or paying for a local control unit and 3270's when 
their system supports OSA-ICC they really need to think about spending their 
money more wisely.  I would trust an OSA-ICC a lot more than some old 3274.  
The ICC's are cheap enough that really worried sites can purchase a backup.  

If you need to enter the computer room to get or keep your site working, then 
you are doing something wrong.  I'm not saying that you might not need to get 
to the HMC, but if you physically have to go to it to use it, then you have set 
things up badly. 

We do have a couple very old sites (who don't have OSA-ICC's) where the backup 
way in is the HMC, and then a dial-up to the HMC in case the network to the HMC 
fails.  One of the banks we support still has local 3274 control units on a 
z800, and they have a phone line attached to a PC in the computer room that is 
wired directly to the 3274 via CUT.  We have never needed to use it, but we 
still test it out once a month.

In my opinion, in the end, it's up to you as the consultant to make sure that 
you can get in if there is a problem.  If you don't set it up right or can't, 
then you're in the wrong business.  This is not meant as a comment on anyone's 
abilities, not everyone is going to know how to set things up for 100% remote 
support without doing some research.  In my case, I helped to design some of 
it, so I'm able to work comfortably with it. 

Brian

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Gates, Guy  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ed,
> 
> Do you have access to login to the HMC? I had a similar situation and 
> couldn't logon to TSO or even CA-SYSVIEW or another product we have named 
> BimEdit (From CSI Inc.), which both have authority to issue Commands and see 
> the SYSLOG. Since I couldn't use those products, I signed into the HCM and 
> selected the LPAR and clicked on System Messages and, Bingo, I was in and 
> able to cancel the offender and get the System back running as it should. 
> Even though I was at home, this was an LPAR running our EURO branches and it 
> was during their Primetime and had to be fixed as fast as I could. If I 
> couldn't get it running quickly, I would have had to go into the office to 
> fix the issue as this was a period that we did not have an operator onsite 
> for me to talk to.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, When I am at work, I prefer to be able to go into the 
> Computer room, but I am always interested in ways to work on and fix problems 
> once I am at home, without having to get up and dressed and go into the 
> office. I have been doing System Programmer work for over 30 years and I 
> remember times before remote login where we did go into the office, even for 
> issues that only took 5-10 minutes to get things going again. I am very happy 
> that those times are in the past and not something I have to do today.
> 
> Thanks...Guy M. Gates Jr.
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
——SNIP——

See the response from 5 minutes ago. To be succinct I don’t trust the HMC.

Ed

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:49 PM, Jerry Whitteridge 
>  wrote:
> 
> Let me expand on that previous comment.
> 
> If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console 
> access is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes 
> an issue. The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a 
> rethink about console design, deployment and access from the traditional 
> models. Both my Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be 
> run from either Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR 
> considerations as well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the 
> console support but now we have access to any console from any authorized 
> remote location without a physical presense.
> 
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
> 925 738 9443
> Corporate Tieline - 89443
———SNIP——

Jerry:

I will agree with your clarification with some minor cavets. That is all well 
and good for a “new” DC. The rest of us mortals do not have the luxury of 
having such a set up. 
Personally I have not had much need for the HMC. It is clunky and far to easy 
to bring down the entire sysplex, especially if you don’t use it everyday. in 
fact I dread the time I have to “use” it as I am sure without thinking I will 
crash the systems. Having seen (not by my hand) the entire plex being lost just 
by hands of the in-experianced is not for the feint of heart.

I know of one “system” that is run via remote by about 1000 miles. There is so 
much non trust between the sites and the political cr** that ends up in finger 
pointing I am glad I have nothing to do with the mess.

I suppose its fine if the site/remote gets along but with the charged finger 
pointing that goes on I don’t see it realistically well implemented especially 
in a real environment where finger checks cause the stock market not to open. 
Perhaps in a college environment it would work but not in a true production 
environment.

Ed

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Brian Westerman]

I agree, it's kind of cool, but if I were the one paying ofr the hardware, I 
wouldn't waste it like that.  Maybe in a few more years it will be better.

Brian

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Rugen, Len]

It would be an interesting concept to have a team of old farts to provide 
support for one or a few Z/OS sites, they could provide backup for each other 
and 24x7 availability without being over taxed.  We've all had the rash of 
grass fires that eat all the hours available in a few days.  They could chose 
what percentage of full time they wanted to participate and build support 
schedules accordingly.  

I always worked in what were small shops, from 1 to maybe 4 main "OS" people.  
Sometimes we had VTAM, DB, CICS and/or VM people, but the teams were small 
enough to be agile and yet could sanity check plans against others expertise 
before blundering into some bear trap.  

Len Rugen

University of Missouri
Division of Information Technology
Systems & Operations - Metrics & Automation Team


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Lester, Bob [bles...@ofiglobal.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 4:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

Hi Len,

Same here.  I'm not sure if my 40+ years of MF experience will be in demand 
for much longer.  I hope so - it's still may favorite platform.

These days, I'm working  on lunix/unix to add to my knowledge, and to 
hopefully keep a job.  :-)

I've been following these threads with much interest, as I'm approaching 60 
and want to know what my options are.

Thanks!
BobL



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Rugen, Len
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you). [ EXTERNAL ]

I've contemplated retiring from my current post-mainframe job sometime if I 
could find a fitting at least mostly remote job.  Another option would be short 
term contracts and living the RV life :-)

I wonder how long my mainframe knowledge will be marketable, how may year away 
is too long?

The other alternative is the same setup, but my current skill set, Linux, 
Zabbix, DEV-OPS and maybe soon Splunk or ELK.

If you search the MXG logs or the various Listservs, you'll find my name, we 
just didn't know that kind of cooperation was the future of "open source" :-)


Len Rugen  - The past owner of IMS-L :-)


University of Missouri
Division of Information Technology
Systems & Operations - Metrics & Automation Team

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Lester, Bob]

Hi Len,

Same here.  I'm not sure if my 40+ years of MF experience will be in demand 
for much longer.  I hope so - it's still may favorite platform.

These days, I'm working  on lunix/unix to add to my knowledge, and to 
hopefully keep a job.  :-)

I've been following these threads with much interest, as I'm approaching 60 
and want to know what my options are.

Thanks!
BobL



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Rugen, Len
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you). [ EXTERNAL ]

I've contemplated retiring from my current post-mainframe job sometime if I 
could find a fitting at least mostly remote job.  Another option would be short 
term contracts and living the RV life :-)   

I wonder how long my mainframe knowledge will be marketable, how may year away 
is too long?  

The other alternative is the same setup, but my current skill set, Linux, 
Zabbix, DEV-OPS and maybe soon Splunk or ELK.  

If you search the MXG logs or the various Listservs, you'll find my name, we 
just didn't know that kind of cooperation was the future of "open source" :-)


Len Rugen  - The past owner of IMS-L :-)


University of Missouri
Division of Information Technology
Systems & Operations - Metrics & Automation Team

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Reposting to add comments on HMC. See below. 

-Original Message-
From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 11:25 AM
To: 'IBM Mainframe Discussion List' <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).

Amen to what Jerry said. I just want to substitute the word '(re)design'. Our 
IT operation was originally 'designed' back in the day when everything was 
connected via copper cable. You pretty much had to enter the Operations cave in 
order to get to 'the heart' of anything. Over the years connections became more 
and more virtual. However, replacing old technology was easy compared with 
replacing old attitudes. Long after remote HMC access appeared, we were stymied 
by one individual in the Security area blocked us. That person never converted; 
he just moved on.   

So now there is a hierarchy of remote access and control.

1. SDSF (or comparable product). Allows the user to issue commands and see 
responses.   
2. SMCS. Can be used when TSO is hung up. Can issue commands and see responses 
sent to the console.   
3. VCC. Off mainframe product that presents a console image to the user. 
Requires no mainframe function other than the OS. Active during NIP.
4. HMC 'native' 3270. Works like a traditional console. Requires z/OS 2.1.   
5. HMC Operating System Messages. Non-3270 look and feel. Requires nothing more 
than connectivity to HMC.   

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages. 

-- SDSF allows the user to examine operlog for responses and past activity but 
depends on healthy TSO, which can be blocked by 100% spool full. Very powerful. 
Shows messages that are not displayed on a console.  
-- SMCS gets only messages directed to 'console' but depends only on a healthy 
VTAM; unaffected by a spool full condition. Still depends on a healthy SAF.
-- VCC is a separate product that requires its own hardware and TLC and $$. 
Allows convenient switching among all connected systems.  
-- HMC 3270 is nice but at present allows only one user at a time per system. 
Not suitable for round-the-clock use.  
-- HMC OSM allows multiple users but is clumsy (says the self-confessed 
3270-phite). Does allow some back scrolling but even that is clumsy. Probably 
the most available of all interfaces, but I don't know of anyone who relies on 
it solely.

+++   
Update: until recently OpSysMsgs depended on the user's workstation Java. That 
was a real problem because a new release of Java often broke OSM, so you had to 
keep your old version around just for that purpose. I got issued a new laptop 
in January and could never find a release of Java that would do OSM. At SHARE 
in San Antonio I learned that an upcoming HMC microcode upgrade would no longer 
require Java at all. Had IBM install Driver 13 as soon as possible, and sure 
enough, OSM works fine now. Driver 13 works on z196 at z/OS R13. That driver is 
required for z/13 anyway, so you might as well get ahead of the curve. 
+++   

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data 
center is 2 states away from you).

Let me expand on that previous comment.

If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console access 
is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes an issue. 
The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a rethink about 
console design, deployment and access from the traditional models. Both my 
Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be run from either 
Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR considerations as 
well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the console support but now 
we have access to any console from any authorized remote location without a 
physical presense.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 8944

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Rugen, Len]

I've contemplated retiring from my current post-mainframe job sometime if I 
could find a fitting at least mostly remote job.  Another option would be short 
term contracts and living the RV life :-)   

I wonder how long my mainframe knowledge will be marketable, how may year away 
is too long?  

The other alternative is the same setup, but my current skill set, Linux, 
Zabbix, DEV-OPS and maybe soon Splunk or ELK.  

If you search the MXG logs or the various Listservs, you'll find my name, we 
just didn't know that kind of cooperation was the future of "open source" :-)


Len Rugen  - The past owner of IMS-L :-)


University of Missouri
Division of Information Technology
Systems & Operations - Metrics & Automation Team

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Lester, Bob]

Hi Tony,

 Belt & Suspenders!  Still a good idea!  I'm an FTE, but have similar 
access to my CEC(s).

 I've been a MF SysProg for almost 40 years and - on this topic - I don't 
miss the old days at all!  When I started in 1976, there was no way to support 
remote sites effectively without being there.  These days, it's not only 
possible, but required in some environments.  And, totally workable if you have 
the right software/hardware/employer.

 Remote access, once secured, is a wonderful thing.  Beats the heck out of 
having to go into the office during the "maintenance" window!

Regards,
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Thigpen
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you). [ EXTERNAL ]

Our remote systems support staff have multiple remote access to the
consoles:
1) The initial IPL console is on a laptop in the computer room with Windows 7 
PRO. If needed, this box can be remotely accessed using RDP over a VPN.
2) A backup console is always running on a second laptop with the same RDP over 
VPN access.
3) Each sysprog has their own dedicated console which is accessed via the 
OSA-C. I connect and keep my personal console running all the time but 
minimized.
4) We have one person in town that lives only 5 minutes from the data-center. 
We can always call them.
5) There is another company in the same building that manages WinTel servers. 
They have access to our data-center and can be called 24/7.

Tony Thigpen

Jerry Whitteridge wrote on 09/28/2016 01:34 PM:
> This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have 
> remote access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)
>
> Jerry Whitteridge
> Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
> Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
> 925 738 9443
> Corporate Tieline - 89443
>
> If you feel in control
> you just aren't going fast enough.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Edward Gould
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
> states away from you).
>
>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman 
>> <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites 
>> remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for 
>> another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small 
>> (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has 
>> never been an issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products 
>> that we maintain at several hundred sites.
>>
>> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if 
>> you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer 
>> room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need 
>> to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand 
>> that you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next 
>> building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some 
>> knock-down drag out fights between the systems programmers and the 
>> operations group on whether or not the systems programmers should 
>> ever be allowed into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) 
>> always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so 
>> long. :)
> ——SNIP———
>
> I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
> running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
> needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were 
> locked out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get 
> the system back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator 
> commands.
>
> Ed
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
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>   Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate 
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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Tony Thigpen]

And, I forgot to include remote access to the HMC.

Tony Thigpen

Tony Thigpen wrote on 09/28/2016 04:17 PM:

Our remote systems support staff have multiple remote access to the
consoles:
1) The initial IPL console is on a laptop in the computer room with
Windows 7 PRO. If needed, this box can be remotely accessed using RDP
over a VPN.
2) A backup console is always running on a second laptop with the same
RDP over VPN access.
3) Each sysprog has their own dedicated console which is accessed via
the OSA-C. I connect and keep my personal console running all the time
but minimized.
4) We have one person in town that lives only 5 minutes from the
data-center. We can always call them.
5) There is another company in the same building that manages WinTel
servers. They have access to our data-center and can be called 24/7.

Tony Thigpen

Jerry Whitteridge wrote on 09/28/2016 01:34 PM:

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have
remote access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is
2 states away from you).


On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman
<brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:

Hi John,

Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites
remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial
support for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and
some are quite small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise
and not being "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a
suite of system automation products that we maintain at several
hundred sites.

Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if
you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer
room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need
to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that
you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next
building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down
drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations
group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed
into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) always won that
argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so long. :)

——SNIP———

I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors
and running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master)
is still needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the
master) were locked out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We
were able to get the system back (and working in good order) by a
combination of operator commands.

Ed

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Tony Thigpen]

Our remote systems support staff have multiple remote access to the 
consoles:
1) The initial IPL console is on a laptop in the computer room with 
Windows 7 PRO. If needed, this box can be remotely accessed using RDP 
over a VPN.
2) A backup console is always running on a second laptop with the same 
RDP over VPN access.
3) Each sysprog has their own dedicated console which is accessed via 
the OSA-C. I connect and keep my personal console running all the time 
but minimized.
4) We have one person in town that lives only 5 minutes from the 
data-center. We can always call them.
5) There is another company in the same building that manages WinTel 
servers. They have access to our data-center and can be called 24/7.


Tony Thigpen

Jerry Whitteridge wrote on 09/28/2016 01:34 PM:

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).


On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> 
wrote:

Hi John,

Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, all over 
the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some 
are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our 
expertise and not being "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a 
suite of system automation products that we maintain at several hundred sites.

Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if
you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer
room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need
to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that
you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next
building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down
drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations
group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed
into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) always won that
argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so long. :)

——SNIP———

I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were locked 
out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get the system 
back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator commands.

Ed

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Gibney, Dave]

I need a zIIP (or zAAP) first

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Cheryl Watson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:52 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from
> you).
> 
> I can highly recommend z/OSMF.  Steve - have you tried the install on z/OS
> 2.2?  It's considerably easier there.
> 
> Cheryl
> 
> 
> Cheryl Watson
> Watson & Walker, Inc.
> 100 Central Ave, Suite 1013
> Sarasota, FL 34236
> P-941-924-6565, F-941-924-4892
> www.watsonwalker.com
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:03 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from
> you).
> 
> 
> You might look at z/OSMF but don't be fooled, it will take you a while to get
> up
> 
> Steve Beaver
> st...@stevebeaver.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that
> is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to
> anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this
> electronic email or its contents (including any attachments) by persons other
> than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received 
> this
> message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we may
> correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message
> (including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "Jesse 1 Robinson" <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:24pm
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from
> you).
> 
> 
> 
> Amen to what Jerry said. I just want to substitute the word '(re)design'. Our 
> IT
> operation was originally 'designed' back in the day when everything was
> connected via copper cable. You pretty much had to enter the Operations
> cave in order to get to 'the heart' of anything. Over the years connections
> became more and more virtual. However, replacing old technology was easy
> compared with replacing old attitudes. Long after remote HMC access
> appeared, we were stymied by one individual in the Security area blocked
> us. That person never converted; he just moved on.
> 
> So now there is a hierarchy of remote access and control.
> 
> 1. SDSF (or comparable product). Allows the user to issue commands and see
> responses.
> 2. SMCS. Can be used when TSO is hung up. Can issue commands and see
> responses sent to the console.
> 3. VCC. Off mainframe product that presents a console image to the user.
> Requires no mainframe function other than the OS. Active during NIP.
> 4. HMC 'native' 3270. Works like a traditional console. Requires z/OS 2.1.
> 5. HMC Operating System Messages. Non-3270 look and feel. Requires
> nothing more than connectivity to HMC.
> 
> Each of these has advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> -- SDSF allows the user to examine operlog for responses and past activity but
> depends on healthy TSO, which can be blocked by 100% spool full. Very
> powerful. Shows messages that are not displayed on a console.
> -- SMCS gets only messages directed to 'console' but depends only on a
> healthy VTAM; unaffected by a spool full condition. Still depends on a healthy
> SAF.
> -- VCC is a separate product that requires its own hardware and TLC and $$.
> Allows convenient switching among all connected systems.
> -- HMC 3270 is nice but at present allows only one user at a time per system.
> Not suitable for round-the-clock use.
> -- HMC OSM allows multiple users but is clumsy (says the self-confessed
> 3270-phite). Does allow some back scrolling but even that is clumsy. Probably
> the most available of all interfaces, but I don't know of anyone who relies on
> it solely.
> 
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-302-7535 Office
> robin...@sce.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Jerry Whitteridge
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:49 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data
> center is 2 

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Steve]

Lionel Dyck did it on our 2.2. system here at the VA.
 
His assessment was that it was not worth it except as a excercise  
 
Steve Beaver
st...@stevebeaver.com




This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that 
is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to 
anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this 
electronic email or its contents (including any attachments) by persons other 
than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received 
this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we 
may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message 
(including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you


-Original Message-
From: "Cheryl Watson" <che...@watsonwalker.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:51pm
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).



I can highly recommend z/OSMF. Steve - have you tried the install on z/OS 2.2? 
It's considerably easier there.

Cheryl


Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
100 Central Ave, Suite 1013
Sarasota, FL 34236
P-941-924-6565, F-941-924-4892
www.watsonwalker.com



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).


You might look at z/OSMF but don't be fooled, it will take you a while to get up

Steve Beaver
st...@stevebeaver.com




This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that 
is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to 
anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this 
electronic email or its contents (including any attachments) by persons other 
than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received 
this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we 
may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message 
(including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you


-Original Message-
From: "Jesse 1 Robinson" <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:24pm
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).



Amen to what Jerry said. I just want to substitute the word '(re)design'. Our 
IT operation was originally 'designed' back in the day when everything was 
connected via copper cable. You pretty much had to enter the Operations cave in 
order to get to 'the heart' of anything. Over the years connections became more 
and more virtual. However, replacing old technology was easy compared with 
replacing old attitudes. Long after remote HMC access appeared, we were stymied 
by one individual in the Security area blocked us. That person never converted; 
he just moved on. 

So now there is a hierarchy of remote access and control.

1. SDSF (or comparable product). Allows the user to issue commands and see 
responses. 
2. SMCS. Can be used when TSO is hung up. Can issue commands and see responses 
sent to the console. 
3. VCC. Off mainframe product that presents a console image to the user. 
Requires no mainframe function other than the OS. Active during NIP. 
4. HMC 'native' 3270. Works like a traditional console. Requires z/OS 2.1. 
5. HMC Operating System Messages. Non-3270 look and feel. Requires nothing more 
than connectivity to HMC. 

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages. 

-- SDSF allows the user to examine operlog for responses and past activity but 
depends on healthy TSO, which can be blocked by 100% spool full. Very powerful. 
Shows messages that are not displayed on a console. 
-- SMCS gets only messages directed to 'console' but depends only on a healthy 
VTAM; unaffected by a spool full condition. Still depends on a healthy SAF. 
-- VCC is a separate product that requires its own hardware and TLC and $$. 
Allows convenient switching among all connected systems. 
-- HMC 3270 is nice but at present allows only one user at a time per system. 
Not suitable for round-the-clock use. 
-- HMC OSM allows multiple users but is clumsy (says the self-confessed 
3270-phite). Does allow some back scrolling but even that is clumsy. Probably 
the most available of all interfaces, but I don't know of anyone who relies on 
it solely. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainfr

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Cheryl Watson]

I can highly recommend z/OSMF.  Steve - have you tried the install on z/OS 2.2? 
 It's considerably easier there.

Cheryl


Cheryl Watson
Watson & Walker, Inc.
100 Central Ave, Suite 1013
Sarasota, FL 34236
P-941-924-6565, F-941-924-4892
www.watsonwalker.com



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).


You might look at z/OSMF but don't be fooled, it will take you a while to get up
 
Steve Beaver
st...@stevebeaver.com




This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that 
is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to 
anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this 
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than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received 
this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we 
may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message 
(including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you


-Original Message-
From: "Jesse 1 Robinson" <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:24pm
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).



Amen to what Jerry said. I just want to substitute the word '(re)design'. Our 
IT operation was originally 'designed' back in the day when everything was 
connected via copper cable. You pretty much had to enter the Operations cave in 
order to get to 'the heart' of anything. Over the years connections became more 
and more virtual. However, replacing old technology was easy compared with 
replacing old attitudes. Long after remote HMC access appeared, we were stymied 
by one individual in the Security area blocked us. That person never converted; 
he just moved on. 

So now there is a hierarchy of remote access and control.

1. SDSF (or comparable product). Allows the user to issue commands and see 
responses. 
2. SMCS. Can be used when TSO is hung up. Can issue commands and see responses 
sent to the console. 
3. VCC. Off mainframe product that presents a console image to the user. 
Requires no mainframe function other than the OS. Active during NIP. 
4. HMC 'native' 3270. Works like a traditional console. Requires z/OS 2.1. 
5. HMC Operating System Messages. Non-3270 look and feel. Requires nothing more 
than connectivity to HMC. 

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages. 

-- SDSF allows the user to examine operlog for responses and past activity but 
depends on healthy TSO, which can be blocked by 100% spool full. Very powerful. 
Shows messages that are not displayed on a console. 
-- SMCS gets only messages directed to 'console' but depends only on a healthy 
VTAM; unaffected by a spool full condition. Still depends on a healthy SAF. 
-- VCC is a separate product that requires its own hardware and TLC and $$. 
Allows convenient switching among all connected systems. 
-- HMC 3270 is nice but at present allows only one user at a time per system. 
Not suitable for round-the-clock use. 
-- HMC OSM allows multiple users but is clumsy (says the self-confessed 
3270-phite). Does allow some back scrolling but even that is clumsy. Probably 
the most available of all interfaces, but I don't know of anyone who relies on 
it solely. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data 
center is 2 states away from you).

Let me expand on that previous comment.

If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console access 
is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes an issue. 
The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a rethink about 
console design, deployment and access from the traditional models. Both my 
Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be run from either 
Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR considerations as 
well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the console support but now 
we have access to any console from any authorized remote location without a 
physical presense.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
yo

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Steve]

You might look at z/OSMF but don't be fooled, it will take you a while to get up
 
Steve Beaver
st...@stevebeaver.com




This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that 
is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to 
anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this 
electronic email or its contents (including any attachments) by persons other 
than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received 
this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we 
may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message 
(including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you


-Original Message-
From: "Jesse 1 Robinson" <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:24pm
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).



Amen to what Jerry said. I just want to substitute the word '(re)design'. Our 
IT operation was originally 'designed' back in the day when everything was 
connected via copper cable. You pretty much had to enter the Operations cave in 
order to get to 'the heart' of anything. Over the years connections became more 
and more virtual. However, replacing old technology was easy compared with 
replacing old attitudes. Long after remote HMC access appeared, we were stymied 
by one individual in the Security area blocked us. That person never converted; 
he just moved on. 

So now there is a hierarchy of remote access and control.

1. SDSF (or comparable product). Allows the user to issue commands and see 
responses. 
2. SMCS. Can be used when TSO is hung up. Can issue commands and see responses 
sent to the console. 
3. VCC. Off mainframe product that presents a console image to the user. 
Requires no mainframe function other than the OS. Active during NIP. 
4. HMC 'native' 3270. Works like a traditional console. Requires z/OS 2.1. 
5. HMC Operating System Messages. Non-3270 look and feel. Requires nothing more 
than connectivity to HMC. 

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages. 

-- SDSF allows the user to examine operlog for responses and past activity but 
depends on healthy TSO, which can be blocked by 100% spool full. Very powerful. 
Shows messages that are not displayed on a console. 
-- SMCS gets only messages directed to 'console' but depends only on a healthy 
VTAM; unaffected by a spool full condition. Still depends on a healthy SAF. 
-- VCC is a separate product that requires its own hardware and TLC and $$. 
Allows convenient switching among all connected systems. 
-- HMC 3270 is nice but at present allows only one user at a time per system. 
Not suitable for round-the-clock use. 
-- HMC OSM allows multiple users but is clumsy (says the self-confessed 
3270-phite). Does allow some back scrolling but even that is clumsy. Probably 
the most available of all interfaces, but I don't know of anyone who relies on 
it solely. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data 
center is 2 states away from you).

Let me expand on that previous comment.

If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console access 
is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes an issue. 
The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a rethink about 
console design, deployment and access from the traditional models. Both my 
Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be run from either 
Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR considerations as 
well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the console support but now 
we have access to any console from any authorized remote location without a 
physical presense.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Alber

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Yup - Skip caught the biggest hurdle! People and perceptions not the 
hardware/software capabilities.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 11:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

Amen to what Jerry said. I just want to substitute the word '(re)design'. Our 
IT operation was originally 'designed' back in the day when everything was 
connected via copper cable. You pretty much had to enter the Operations cave in 
order to get to 'the heart' of anything. Over the years connections became more 
and more virtual. However, replacing old technology was easy compared with 
replacing old attitudes. Long after remote HMC access appeared, we were stymied 
by one individual in the Security area blocked us. That person never converted; 
he just moved on.

So now there is a hierarchy of remote access and control.

1. SDSF (or comparable product). Allows the user to issue commands and see 
responses.
2. SMCS. Can be used when TSO is hung up. Can issue commands and see responses 
sent to the console.
3. VCC. Off mainframe product that presents a console image to the user. 
Requires no mainframe function other than the OS. Active during NIP.
4. HMC 'native' 3270. Works like a traditional console. Requires z/OS 2.1.
5. HMC Operating System Messages. Non-3270 look and feel. Requires nothing more 
than connectivity to HMC.

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages.

-- SDSF allows the user to examine operlog for responses and past activity but 
depends on healthy TSO, which can be blocked by 100% spool full. Very powerful. 
Shows messages that are not displayed on a console.
-- SMCS gets only messages directed to 'console' but depends only on a healthy 
VTAM; unaffected by a spool full condition. Still depends on a healthy SAF.
-- VCC is a separate product that requires its own hardware and TLC and $$. 
Allows convenient switching among all connected systems.
-- HMC 3270 is nice but at present allows only one user at a time per system. 
Not suitable for round-the-clock use.
-- HMC OSM allows multiple users but is clumsy (says the self-confessed 
3270-phite). Does allow some back scrolling but even that is clumsy. Probably 
the most available of all interfaces, but I don't know of anyone who relies on 
it solely.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data 
center is 2 states away from you).

Let me expand on that previous comment.

If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console access 
is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes an issue. 
The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a rethink about 
console design, deployment and access from the traditional models. Both my 
Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be run from either 
Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR considerations as 
well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the console support but now 
we have access to any console from any authorized remote location without a 
physical presense.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <brian_weste

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Amen to what Jerry said. I just want to substitute the word '(re)design'. Our 
IT operation was originally 'designed' back in the day when everything was 
connected via copper cable. You pretty much had to enter the Operations cave in 
order to get to 'the heart' of anything. Over the years connections became more 
and more virtual. However, replacing old technology was easy compared with 
replacing old attitudes. Long after remote HMC access appeared, we were stymied 
by one individual in the Security area blocked us. That person never converted; 
he just moved on.   

So now there is a hierarchy of remote access and control.

1. SDSF (or comparable product). Allows the user to issue commands and see 
responses.   
2. SMCS. Can be used when TSO is hung up. Can issue commands and see responses 
sent to the console.   
3. VCC. Off mainframe product that presents a console image to the user. 
Requires no mainframe function other than the OS. Active during NIP.
4. HMC 'native' 3270. Works like a traditional console. Requires z/OS 2.1.   
5. HMC Operating System Messages. Non-3270 look and feel. Requires nothing more 
than connectivity to HMC.   

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages. 

-- SDSF allows the user to examine operlog for responses and past activity but 
depends on healthy TSO, which can be blocked by 100% spool full. Very powerful. 
Shows messages that are not displayed on a console.  
-- SMCS gets only messages directed to 'console' but depends only on a healthy 
VTAM; unaffected by a spool full condition. Still depends on a healthy SAF.
-- VCC is a separate product that requires its own hardware and TLC and $$. 
Allows convenient switching among all connected systems.  
-- HMC 3270 is nice but at present allows only one user at a time per system. 
Not suitable for round-the-clock use.  
-- HMC OSM allows multiple users but is clumsy (says the self-confessed 
3270-phite). Does allow some back scrolling but even that is clumsy. Probably 
the most available of all interfaces, but I don't know of anyone who relies on 
it solely. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data 
center is 2 states away from you).

Let me expand on that previous comment.

If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console access 
is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes an issue. 
The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a rethink about 
console design, deployment and access from the traditional models. Both my 
Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be run from either 
Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR considerations as 
well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the console support but now 
we have access to any console from any authorized remote location without a 
physical presense.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, 
> all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 
> to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 
> MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has never been 
> an issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products that we 
> maintain at several hundred sites.
>
> Even 10 to 12 yea

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Let me expand on that previous comment.

If your Datacenter was/is designed for attended operations then console access 
is often restricted to physical access and so remote support becomes an issue. 
The conversion to unattended/lights out operations requires a rethink about 
console design, deployment and access from the traditional models. Both my 
Datacenters are designed for remote support (either can be run from either 
Datacenter OR by remote access). This was a part of the DR considerations as 
well as staffing choices. It did mean redesigning the console support but now 
we have access to any console from any authorized remote location without a 
physical presense.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 
states away from you).

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, 
> all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 
> to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 
> MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has never been 
> an issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products that we 
> maintain at several hundred sites.
>
> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if
> you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer
> room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need
> to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that
> you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next
> building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down
> drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations
> group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed
> into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) always won that
> argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so long. :)
——SNIP———

I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were locked 
out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get the system 
back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator commands.

Ed

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
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message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, 
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--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
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 Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate 
e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the 
recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is intended only 
for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not 
the intended recipient(s), you are not

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jerry Whitteridge]

This indicates a weakness in your console deployment - my staff have remote 
access to all the consoles they need (including the Master)

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, 
> all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 
> to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 
> MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has never been 
> an issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products that we 
> maintain at several hundred sites.
>
> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if
> you were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer
> room.  Once a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need
> to be in that room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that
> you get just as much support from the next floor, or the next
> building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember some knock-down
> drag out fights between the systems programmers and the operations
> group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be allowed
> into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) always won that
> argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so long. :)
——SNIP———

I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were locked 
out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get the system 
back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator commands.

Ed

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

 Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate 
e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the 
recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is intended only 
for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not 
the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message 
in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this 
message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, 
please notify the sender immediately.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[John McKown]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Gates, Guy <guy.ga...@ttiinc.com> wrote:

> Hi Ed,
>
> Do you have access to login to the HMC? I had a similar situation and
> couldn't logon to TSO or even CA-SYSVIEW or another product we have named
> BimEdit (From CSI Inc.), which both have authority to issue Commands and
> see the SYSLOG. Since I couldn't use those products, I signed into the HCM
> and selected the LPAR and clicked on System Messages and, Bingo, I was in
> and able to cancel the offender and get the System back running as it
> should. Even though I was at home, this was an LPAR running our EURO
> branches and it was during their Primetime and had to be fixed as fast as I
> could. If I couldn't get it running quickly, I would have had to go into
> the office to fix the issue as this was a period that we did not have an
> operator onsite for me to talk to.
>

​This is how I do almost all "short" operator work when I'm at home. Why
not TSO? Because using the "System Messages" on the HMC is faster to get
to. And, like you, if there is very high CPU, logging on to TSO can be
quite SLOOO! Also, I wasn't able to when a "mad programmer" drove the
SPOOL utilization up to 100% in a looping batch job on Sunday. He loved to
do a DISPLAY of ever record in the 5 million record VSAM data set he was
reading because "it makes debugging easier to just display all of them".​



>
>  Don't get me wrong, When I am at work, I prefer to be able to go into the
> Computer room, but I am always interested in ways to work on and fix
> problems once I am at home, without having to get up and dressed and go
> into the office. I have been doing System Programmer work for over 30 years
> and I remember times before remote login where we did go into the office,
> even for issues that only took 5-10 minutes to get things going again. I am
> very happy that those times are in the past and not something I have to do
> today.
>
> Thanks...Guy M. Gates Jr.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Edward Gould
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 11:10 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away
> from you).
>
> > On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <
> brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites
> remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support
> for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite
> small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being
> "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a suite of system
> automation products that we maintain at several hundred sites.
> >
> > Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if you
> were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer room.  Once
> a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need to be in that
> room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that you get just as
> much support from the next floor, or the next building, or the next city,
> etc.  I can still remember some knock-down drag out fights between the
> systems programmers and the operations group on whether or not the systems
> programmers should ever be allowed into the computer room.  We (systems
> programmers) always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for
> so long. :)
> ——SNIP———
>
> I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and
> running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still
> needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were
> locked out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get
> the system back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator
> commands.
>
> Ed
>
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-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Gates, Guy]

Hi Ed,

Do you have access to login to the HMC? I had a similar situation and couldn't 
logon to TSO or even CA-SYSVIEW or another product we have named BimEdit (From 
CSI Inc.), which both have authority to issue Commands and see the SYSLOG. 
Since I couldn't use those products, I signed into the HCM and selected the 
LPAR and clicked on System Messages and, Bingo, I was in and able to cancel the 
offender and get the System back running as it should. Even though I was at 
home, this was an LPAR running our EURO branches and it was during their 
Primetime and had to be fixed as fast as I could. If I couldn't get it running 
quickly, I would have had to go into the office to fix the issue as this was a 
period that we did not have an operator onsite for me to talk to.

 Don't get me wrong, When I am at work, I prefer to be able to go into the 
Computer room, but I am always interested in ways to work on and fix problems 
once I am at home, without having to get up and dressed and go into the office. 
I have been doing System Programmer work for over 30 years and I remember times 
before remote login where we did go into the office, even for issues that only 
took 5-10 minutes to get things going again. I am very happy that those times 
are in the past and not something I have to do today.

Thanks...Guy M. Gates Jr.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Gould
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, 
> all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 
> to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 
> MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has never been 
> an issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products that we 
> maintain at several hundred sites. 
> 
> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if you were 
> physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer room.  Once a site 
> realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need to be in that room, it's 
> only a small jump for them to understand that you get just as much support 
> from the next floor, or the next building, or the next city, etc.  I can 
> still remember some knock-down drag out fights between the systems 
> programmers and the operations group on whether or not the systems 
> programmers should ever be allowed into the computer room.  We (systems 
> programmers) always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for 
> so long. :)
——SNIP———

I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were locked 
out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get the system 
back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator commands. 

Ed

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Edward Gould]

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, 
> all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 
> to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 
> MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has never been 
> an issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products that we 
> maintain at several hundred sites. 
> 
> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if you were 
> physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer room.  Once a site 
> realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need to be in that room, it's 
> only a small jump for them to understand that you get just as much support 
> from the next floor, or the next building, or the next city, etc.  I can 
> still remember some knock-down drag out fights between the systems 
> programmers and the operations group on whether or not the systems 
> programmers should ever be allowed into the computer room.  We (systems 
> programmers) always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for 
> so long. :)
——SNIP———

I will disagree with you on this one. Our data center is on 2 floors and 
running upstairs is still needed as consoles (except the master) is still 
needed to this day. Just last week all consoles (except the master) were locked 
out (TSO was dead as were other possibilities). We were able to get the system 
back (and working in good order) by a combination of operator commands. 

Ed

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Bobbie Justice]

I've been working remote for years. 

Currently working for a company where the client is on the other side of the 
country, so 3 days away by car. 

if you're worried about staying in tune to things, then make sure you attend 
conference call meetings, up to date on emails, IM, etc.. 

I don't do video, I do phone for meetings. 

I don't have the noise or constant distractions in an office environment so I 
am far more productive at home. 

The worst part of my "commute" is that I sometimes trip over the dog on the way 
to power up the computer. 

Bobbie Justice 
Senior z/OS Systems Engineer 

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Holst, Jeffrey A]

I realize that there have been a number of replies to this already, but I have 
a bit of experience with this as well. At both my current employer and my last 
employer, my office was located several states away from the location(s) of the 
data center(s) where z/OS was running. While I did have a desk at a company 
location, I could work from home as well. So I could be remote, attached 
directly to the company network, or I could VPN into the network.

At each company the support team was spread over multiple locations in multiple 
states. For a long time, meetings were handled via phone: conference calls or 
direct calls as appropriate. My present employer is rolling out the Skype for 
Business suite and we now use Skype for almost all meetings. As part of the 
roll-out, headsets were made available to everyone, as noise in the office 
makes the use of the headset's microphone more desirable than the laptop's 
built-in mic. While our company issued laptops have cameras, we rarely use 
them. We find it more useful to share our desktops for presentations.

Jeffrey Holst
Systems Administator Senior
Technology and Operations, Shared Services
PNC Bank



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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Dana Mitchell]

John,

I spent about 9 years working remotely, most of it with IBM in various areas.  
I basically agree with all that has been said thus far,  technically there is 
no reason this can't be easily done as long as you have the support of the 
network folks to allow you vpn access to HMC's, tape libraries etc. that you 
might be called upon to support.

The human interaction I found varied with what kind of environment you were 
working with.  For example I started IBM with global services,  where everyone 
else on the support teams were also remote,  so meetings were held via 
conference call and a lot of adhoc communications via Sametime.

Other areas I worked with were mostly all onsite people, and I was the only one 
remote.  That was tougher when meetings consisted of a group of people in a 
conference room and one person (me) on a speakerphone, especially when more 
than one person was talking.  Speakerphones cannot pick out one voice from a 
crowd like the human ear can,  and it was sometimes hard to get a word in 
edgewise during discussions.  And then inevitably someone would jump up and 
start drawing and scribbling on the white board..  And in environments like 
that,  a lot of collaboration with coworkers and other departments  happened in 
person in offices, labs, meeting rooms and the cafeteria, which also made it 
tough to be remote.   In 7 years, and 5 managers at IBM,  I only met one of 
them face to face once.   

This was all the early 2000's so meeting technology has improved, but you may 
still face challenges such as these.   

Dana

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[John McKown]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Brian Westerman <
brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites
> remotely, all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support
> for another 60 to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite
> small (8 to 10 MSU), but they all need our expertise and not being
> "on-site" has never been an issue.  We also have a suite of system
> automation products that we maintain at several hundred sites.
>
> Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if you
> were physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer room.  Once
> a site realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need to be in that
> room, it's only a small jump for them to understand that you get just as
> much support from the next floor, or the next building, or the next city,
> etc.  I can still remember some knock-down drag out fights between the
> systems programmers and the operations group on whether or not the systems
> programmers should ever be allowed into the computer room.  We (systems
> programmers) always won that argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for
> so long. :)
>
> The important thing, and the the clients expect it, is that we are always
> productive.  We aren't there to baby-sit the site, we are constantly moving
> forward on whatever it is that we need to get done for them.  You have to
> always have a plan and be able to show progress.  You can't just bill the
> hours, you have to show what you did.  You can't sit around and talk about
> the kids/wife/parents with anyone.  When you are off-site, you're not there
> to just generate hours, you there to get things done as well, actually
> better than it can be accomplished by someone at the site.  Sometimes the
> clients will be amazed at the "speed" that we get things done, but some of
> that is just that we can focus on the project without a lot of
> interruptions.  Some of it is because we have enough people here that if
> you run into a problem you can't get a handle on, someone else you have
> access to will likely already have the solution.
>

​I just learned that I will be the "complete push" at this location. That
is, the one and only sysprog responsible for z/OS and all program products,
including DB2, IMS, & CICS. I gather that I will control CICS, but only
responsible for installation & maintenance of the IMS & DB2 software, no
DBA type responsibilities. Good thing since I can barely spell them. But it
is a bit nerve racking for me. I do like having someone watching my 6. Or
just to be around in case something horrible happens. ​



>
> I don't use video chat, we have it, but I don't think it's necessary and
> just plain don't use it.  I generate a LOT of email and I document
> everything that I do.  If you can't type well, then get one of the PC based
> typing/dictation programs.


​Luckily, I can type fairly well. At least compared to most sysprogs &
programmers. I am a touch typist and have been for years (like back in high
school).​



> You need to have a way to keep track of EXACTLY what you are working on,
> especially when you are supporting several sites at the same time.  You
> must be able to communicate and you have to make sure that you stay in
> front of the ball at all times, you can't be reaction-oriented, you must be
> proactive.  You have to use (if they have it) or set up (if they don't) a
> problem control system, or you will become so bogged down in "little"
> things that the big issues will slip away and you will become ineffective.
>

​Ah, the above is very germane to this. I get the impression that they
don't have anything like this set up and that _I_ will be at least one of
the main architects of how to do it. I don't know if they would be open to
a vendor ($$) solution or if they would expect me to roll one on my own
(which I did at another company - it worked, but ).​



>
> Each site has to have at least 1 progress meeting a week that tends to be
> about 1 hour long.  There can be more, but 1 is the minimum.  It's the
> place to lay out what you have completed, and what you are going to
> complete, plus it give you (and the site) a chance to stay on the same
> page.  It's very easy, especially with multiple sites, to lose positive
> control, and you have to stay on top of EVERYTHING at all times.  Every
> site I work on has a substantial to-do list divided into short and long
> range items, and that's just the things I plan to work on, there will also
> be a number of "problems" that need to be resolved.
>
> If you want to talk about this, feel free to call me and I'll be happy to
> go over things with you.
>

​I appreciate the offer.


>
> Brian
>
>

-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Brian Westerman]

Hi John,

Our company (Syzygy Incorporated) fully supports more than 70 sites remotely, 
all over the world.  On top of that we provide partial support for another 60 
to 70 sites.  Some are large (300+MSU) and some are quite small (8 to 10 MSU), 
but they all need our expertise and not being "on-site" has never been an 
issue.  We also have a suite of system automation products that we maintain at 
several hundred sites. 

Even 10 to 12 years ago, it was very unusual to be "at" a site or if you were 
physically there, to be anywhere near the actual computer room.  Once a site 
realizes that the systems programmer doesn't need to be in that room, it's only 
a small jump for them to understand that you get just as much support from the 
next floor, or the next building, or the next city, etc.  I can still remember 
some knock-down drag out fights between the systems programmers and the 
operations group on whether or not the systems programmers should ever be 
allowed into the computer room.  We (systems programmers) always won that 
argument, but now I wonder why I fought it for so long. :)

The important thing, and the the clients expect it, is that we are always 
productive.  We aren't there to baby-sit the site, we are constantly moving 
forward on whatever it is that we need to get done for them.  You have to 
always have a plan and be able to show progress.  You can't just bill the 
hours, you have to show what you did.  You can't sit around and talk about the 
kids/wife/parents with anyone.  When you are off-site, you're not there to just 
generate hours, you there to get things done as well, actually better than it 
can be accomplished by someone at the site.  Sometimes the clients will be 
amazed at the "speed" that we get things done, but some of that is just that we 
can focus on the project without a lot of interruptions.  Some of it is because 
we have enough people here that if you run into a problem you can't get a 
handle on, someone else you have access to will likely already have the 
solution.

I don't use video chat, we have it, but I don't think it's necessary and just 
plain don't use it.  I generate a LOT of email and I document everything that I 
do.  If you can't type well, then get one of the PC based typing/dictation 
programs.  You need to have a way to keep track of EXACTLY what you are working 
on, especially when you are supporting several sites at the same time.  You 
must be able to communicate and you have to make sure that you stay in front of 
the ball at all times, you can't be reaction-oriented, you must be proactive.  
You have to use (if they have it) or set up (if they don't) a problem control 
system, or you will become so bogged down in "little" things that the big 
issues will slip away and you will become ineffective.   

Each site has to have at least 1 progress meeting a week that tends to be about 
1 hour long.  There can be more, but 1 is the minimum.  It's the place to lay 
out what you have completed, and what you are going to complete, plus it give 
you (and the site) a chance to stay on the same page.  It's very easy, 
especially with multiple sites, to lose positive control, and you have to stay 
on top of EVERYTHING at all times.  Every site I work on has a substantial 
to-do list divided into short and long range items, and that's just the things 
I plan to work on, there will also be a number of "problems" that need to be 
resolved.  

If you want to talk about this, feel free to call me and I'll be happy to go 
over things with you.

Brian



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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Chuck Kreiter]

I've been working remotely for the last 2.5 years and absolutely love it.  Some 
of my team does go in to the office but the rest are spread throughout the 
country and other parts of the world.  We use Skype for Business for IM and 
desktop sharing.  We also use MS Group Chat for notifications and groups 
discussions.  Those coupled with calls are all we need.  We never do video and 
I have no idea what most of my team members look like.  

I do have an office room in my house where I work most of the time.  It has 
everything my cubicle in an office would have without all the noise and 
distractions that come from an office environment.  

I get that some folks like the office setting and couldn't be a productive in a 
WFH environment.  For me, it's been awesome and I really don't think I could or 
would consider a job that requires going into the office.  I can move anywhere 
in the country and still do my job.  I no longer lose significant chunks of my 
life to a commute or have to deal with driving in bad weather.  

My 2¢'s.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 11:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

This is kind of a curiosity question and kind of serious. There is a chance 
that I might be offered a job where the data center is about 20 hours away by 
car (according to Google maps). Needless to say, there is no going in overnight 
to fix a problem. So I'm wondering if others here support a z/OS system where 
getting to the data center would be a long commute (unless you have your own 
plane, like some I know). How does that work out? In this shop, we haven't had 
any "operators" for about 5 years, maybe more. We systems people do all the 
hardware interfacing, tape management, IPL'ing, and "CE baby sitting" (being 
on-site while they work). This is really removed me from the historic paradigm. 
I somewhat like the thought of working from the house. But I also worry about 
being somewhat excluded from the unofficial information channels (i.e. company 
gossip). I also wonder about things like meetings and just being "invisible" 
and so "out of mind"
when decisions are made.

--
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I don't know OP John McKown personally, but from his IBM Main postings I would 
be so bold as to offer this advice: it's time to saddle up the sorrel and ride 
out of town toward the sunset. The bad guys are in jail, and the good folks 
left in town don't need you anymore. 

Like others giving advice, I've done gigs more or less remote for varying 
periods. For years my production data center was in another county. I've 
provided support for affiliates in other states. Modern technology does not 
require *your* hands-on for most of what sysprogs do. I work from home for 
hours or occasionally days. My laptop camera BTW is never turned on. As Jerry 
W. says, personal video for a group is fairly useless. We formerly had Lotus 
Notes here, now Skype for Business. Any modern product should fill the bill.

It's a good sign that a company would make you an offer knowing that you're 
beyond the control wire. They trust your experience and knowledge. If they give 
you full system access over VPN, there's not much you can't do. Be 'present and 
in mind' as much as possible via communication media. Do stuff and let everyone 
know about it. 

Go for it.  

.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Woodger
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 11:17 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

Perhaps it's an "other side of the Pond" thing, but if it is a actual remote 
position for a large company, I'd expect them to provide all the hardware you 
need, and even ban you from any access to the company from your own devices 
(other than phone calls).

As others have indicate, working remotely involves new means of communication, 
not the end of communication. With "instant messaging" you can interact more 
thoroughly than an occasional coincidental cup of coffee.

You may have to modify/develop your techniques. I like to write 
"self-contained" texts - and then I get "thank you for your detailed email..." 
and you know the sub-text is "which I am far too important to have read". Say 
everything you want to say at the beginning, explain later. If someone is going 
to ignore the bulk of what you have written at least make it difficult for them 
to ignore the point(s) you want to make. Email (and IM) are great CYA, by the 
way :-)

IM. For sure don't try to "conference" by IM. Except with very controlled 
procedures (a "moderator" effectively) it is a nightmare, as three other people 
have contributed before you've typed your important contribution, and now 
untangle that.

Even one-on-one IM can be tricky. I write (for instance notepad) what I want to 
get across before the IM, then I can highlight/copy/paste, whilst leaving open 
the option to reply to any points in reply. If the message "xyz is typing" 
comes up, it is worth waiting, rather than just carrying on with what you were 
going to "type".

I don't think group video conferences are so important to be video, but if 
that's what someone wants, it's not a problem. I'm not sure one-on-one video 
(for business) is useful all the time, but again, if it is what the other party 
wants. I do feel audio reduces self-conciousness and eases concentration on the 
topic.

Plan your meetings. You may have strictly limited time. Delay to the end of the 
meeting, or to another meeting, topics that are overrunning. Distribute an 
agenda, get through the agenda. If the meeting is long, allow for a break (or 
breaks). It can at least "seem" more intense than a "real" meeting.

If it is your meeting, be assertive. If it is someone else's meeting and you 
have something important to interrupt about (someone missed something vital, 
and no-one noticed) then be assertive. "I'd like to quickly back to the point 
about..." and assorted phrases. You get adept at looking for gaps to 
"interrupt" at good moments, but not always possible.

A great thing about audio/video is that you may be able to record. Obviously 
all should be aware, and there ma be local rules (even laws somewhere?) against 
it. But "having it on tape" means 1) you can review it 2) you can easily frame 
an exact request for clarification 3) you have it on tape :-)

I guess how people work from home varies from person-to-person. I'd myself 
recommend having some "space" somewhere where you can "go to work". There's 
some education of people living with you as well. Just because you are "at 
home" doesn't mean you can have an earl dinner ready, collect the dog from the 
vet, or finish work a five-on-the-dot.

It's a differ

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Bill Woodger]

Perhaps it's an "other side of the Pond" thing, but if it is a actual remote 
position for a large company, I'd expect them to provide all the hardware you 
need, and even ban you from any access to the company from your own devices 
(other than phone calls).

As others have indicate, working remotely involves new means of communication, 
not the end of communication. With "instant messaging" you can interact more 
thoroughly than an occasional coincidental cup of coffee.

You may have to modify/develop your techniques. I like to write 
"self-contained" texts - and then I get "thank you for your detailed email..." 
and you know the sub-text is "which I am far too important to have read". Say 
everything you want to say at the beginning, explain later. If someone is going 
to ignore the bulk of what you have written at least make it difficult for them 
to ignore the point(s) you want to make. Email (and IM) are great CYA, by the 
way :-)

IM. For sure don't try to "conference" by IM. Except with very controlled 
procedures (a "moderator" effectively) it is a nightmare, as three other people 
have contributed before you've typed your important contribution, and now 
untangle that.

Even one-on-one IM can be tricky. I write (for instance notepad) what I want to 
get across before the IM, then I can highlight/copy/paste, whilst leaving open 
the option to reply to any points in reply. If the message "xyz is typing" 
comes up, it is worth waiting, rather than just carrying on with what you were 
going to "type".

I don't think group video conferences are so important to be video, but if 
that's what someone wants, it's not a problem. I'm not sure one-on-one video 
(for business) is useful all the time, but again, if it is what the other party 
wants. I do feel audio reduces self-conciousness and eases concentration on the 
topic.

Plan your meetings. You may have strictly limited time. Delay to the end of the 
meeting, or to another meeting, topics that are overrunning. Distribute an 
agenda, get through the agenda. If the meeting is long, allow for a break (or 
breaks). It can at least "seem" more intense than a "real" meeting.

If it is your meeting, be assertive. If it is someone else's meeting and you 
have something important to interrupt about (someone missed something vital, 
and no-one noticed) then be assertive. "I'd like to quickly back to the point 
about..." and assorted phrases. You get adept at looking for gaps to 
"interrupt" at good moments, but not always possible.

A great thing about audio/video is that you may be able to record. Obviously 
all should be aware, and there ma be local rules (even laws somewhere?) against 
it. But "having it on tape" means 1) you can review it 2) you can easily frame 
an exact request for clarification 3) you have it on tape :-)

I guess how people work from home varies from person-to-person. I'd myself 
recommend having some "space" somewhere where you can "go to work". There's 
some education of people living with you as well. Just because you are "at 
home" doesn't mean you can have an earl dinner ready, collect the dog from the 
vet, or finish work a five-on-the-dot.

It's a different experience, and can be fun. Remember always the company is not 
allowing you to work remotely for your benefit (in itself). You provide the 
tea/heat/cooling/lighting/workspace/insurance etc.

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Jerry Whitteridge]

In addition to Mitch's suggestions also look for a GOOD quality speaker phone 
or Bluetooth speaker if you plan to use a cell phone for most of your 
communications. If using the cell phone also get a docking station/charging 
station for it as some of these conference calls can go on for hours!

With my setup I use a Jabra Speak 510 to connect to my work provided cell phone 
(it actually has 2 device capability so also connects to my personal phone at 
the same time)

When using WebEx/Skype and the variants I have the Conference call me on my 
cell number and use the speaker. We do have Video capability via the laptops 
and the Skype For Business client - you should be able to use your tablet for 
that function if the laptop doesn't have a camera. But note the video calls 
really only work 1:1 - group video sessions don't really work for us.

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mitch Mccluhan
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 9:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states 
away from you).

 John,

You almost must have a camera for 2-way communication.  You can get a good 
quality USB camera for your computer from Amazon or ebay.  They work 
exceptionally well.  I recommend you get one with an internal microphone.  
Seeing people's facial expressions when they are talking can make a huge 
difference.  Do you have external speakers?  If not, I recommend them as the 
sound quality is much better and this  is important when you are working with a 
variety of people that have varying quality of microphones themselves, along 
with accents.



Mitch McCluhan
mitc...@aol.com





-Original Message-
From: John McKown <john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
To: IBM-MAIN <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 11:27 am
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Mitch Mccluhan < 
005d889cebf0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

>  John,
>
> I've been working remotely for years.  The issue is being relevant.
> Stay on top of things.  Look for areas that might benefit from your
> experience and expertise.  Don't miss ANY meetings, conference calls,
> etc.  Don't be shy about requesting anything and everything you would
> need to be an integral part of the support team.
>

​Which leads me to another question: how do you do meetings? Video 
conferencing? Skype? I don't have a camera on my home computer, but I do have a 
very nice (10 inch) Android tablet.​



>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mitch McCluhan
> mitc...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John McKown <john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
> To: IBM-MAIN <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 10:57 am
> Subject: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away
> from you).
>
> This is kind of a curiosity question and kind of serious. There is a
> chance that I might be offered a job where the data center is about 20
> hours away by car (according to Google maps). Needless to say, there
> is no going in overnight to fix a problem. So I'm wondering if others
> here support a z/OS system where getting to the data center would be a
> long commute (unless you have your own plane, like some I know). How
> does that work out? In this shop, we haven't had any "operators" for
> about 5 years, maybe more. We systems people do all the hardware
> interfacing, tape management, IPL'ing, and "CE baby sitting" (being
> on-site while they work). This is really removed me from the historic
> paradigm. I somewhat like the thought of working from the house. But I
> also worry about being somewhat excluded from the unofficial
> information channels (i.e. company gossip). I also wonder about things like 
> meetings and just being "invisible" and so "out of mind"
> when decisions are made.
>
> --
> Heisenberg may have been here.
>
> Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



--
Heisenberg may have been here.

Uni

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[william janulin]

Constant communication is the key. I did a remote gig for two years where the 
data center was 600 miles away. My manager also worked remotely. I did one 
initial site visit for orientation and that was it.
I am currently involved in a short term assignment where the data center is 
1000 miles away. This gig is a little more specific as to the project I am 
working on. Again, I communicate mostly via email and some telephone 
conversations. 

I do have SKYPE for my computer which is an option you may wish to consider, 
assuming you have the hardware (camera, mike, etc). My laptop has all of that 
built in.
Bill J.
 

On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 12:57 PM, Mitch Mccluhan 
<005d889cebf0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
 

  John,

You almost must have a camera for 2-way communication.  You can get a good 
quality USB camera for your computer from Amazon or ebay.  They work 
exceptionally well.  I recommend you get one with an internal microphone.  
Seeing people's facial expressions when they are talking can make a huge 
difference.  Do you have external speakers?  If not, I recommend them as the 
sound quality is much better and this  is important when you are working with a 
variety of people that have varying quality of microphones themselves, along 
with accents.  

 

Mitch McCluhan
mitc...@aol.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: John McKown <john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
To: IBM-MAIN <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 11:27 am
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Mitch Mccluhan <
005d889cebf0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

>  John,
>
> I've been working remotely for years.  The issue is being relevant.  Stay
> on top of things.  Look for areas that might benefit from your experience
> and expertise.  Don't miss ANY meetings, conference calls, etc.  Don't be
> shy about requesting anything and everything you would need to be an
> integral part of the support team.
>

​Which leads me to another question: how do you do meetings? Video
conferencing? Skype? I don't have a camera on my home computer, but I do
have a very nice (10 inch) Android tablet.​



>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mitch McCluhan
> mitc...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John McKown <john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
> To: IBM-MAIN <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 10:57 am
> Subject: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from
> you).
>
> This is kind of a curiosity question and kind of serious. There is a chance
> that I might be offered a job where the data center is about 20 hours away
> by car (according to Google maps). Needless to say, there is no going in
> overnight to fix a problem. So I'm wondering if others here support a z/OS
> system where getting to the data center would be a long commute (unless you
> have your own plane, like some I know). How does that work out? In this
> shop, we haven't had any "operators" for about 5 years, maybe more. We
> systems people do all the hardware interfacing, tape management, IPL'ing,
> and "CE baby sitting" (being on-site while they work). This is really
> removed me from the historic paradigm. I somewhat like the thought of
> working from the house. But I also worry about being somewhat excluded from
> the unofficial information channels (i.e. company gossip). I also wonder
> about things like meetings and just being "invisible" and so "out of mind"
> when decisions are made.
>
> --
> Heisenberg may have been here.
>
> Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Mitch Mccluhan]

 John,

You almost must have a camera for 2-way communication.  You can get a good 
quality USB camera for your computer from Amazon or ebay.  They work 
exceptionally well.  I recommend you get one with an internal microphone.  
Seeing people's facial expressions when they are talking can make a huge 
difference.  Do you have external speakers?  If not, I recommend them as the 
sound quality is much better and this  is important when you are working with a 
variety of people that have varying quality of microphones themselves, along 
with accents.  

 

Mitch McCluhan
mitc...@aol.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: John McKown <john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
To: IBM-MAIN <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 11:27 am
Subject: Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from 
you).

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Mitch Mccluhan <
005d889cebf0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

>  John,
>
> I've been working remotely for years.  The issue is being relevant.  Stay
> on top of things.  Look for areas that might benefit from your experience
> and expertise.  Don't miss ANY meetings, conference calls, etc.  Don't be
> shy about requesting anything and everything you would need to be an
> integral part of the support team.
>

​Which leads me to another question: how do you do meetings? Video
conferencing? Skype? I don't have a camera on my home computer, but I do
have a very nice (10 inch) Android tablet.​



>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mitch McCluhan
> mitc...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John McKown <john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
> To: IBM-MAIN <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 10:57 am
> Subject: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from
> you).
>
> This is kind of a curiosity question and kind of serious. There is a chance
> that I might be offered a job where the data center is about 20 hours away
> by car (according to Google maps). Needless to say, there is no going in
> overnight to fix a problem. So I'm wondering if others here support a z/OS
> system where getting to the data center would be a long commute (unless you
> have your own plane, like some I know). How does that work out? In this
> shop, we haven't had any "operators" for about 5 years, maybe more. We
> systems people do all the hardware interfacing, tape management, IPL'ing,
> and "CE baby sitting" (being on-site while they work). This is really
> removed me from the historic paradigm. I somewhat like the thought of
> working from the house. But I also worry about being somewhat excluded from
> the unofficial information channels (i.e. company gossip). I also wonder
> about things like meetings and just being "invisible" and so "out of mind"
> when decisions are made.
>
> --
> Heisenberg may have been here.
>
> Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[John McKown]

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Mitch Mccluhan <
005d889cebf0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

>  John,
>
> I've been working remotely for years.  The issue is being relevant.  Stay
> on top of things.  Look for areas that might benefit from your experience
> and expertise.  Don't miss ANY meetings, conference calls, etc.  Don't be
> shy about requesting anything and everything you would need to be an
> integral part of the support team.
>

​Which leads me to another question: how do you do meetings? Video
conferencing? Skype? I don't have a camera on my home computer, but I do
have a very nice (10 inch) Android tablet.​



>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mitch McCluhan
> mitc...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John McKown 
> To: IBM-MAIN 
> Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 10:57 am
> Subject: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from
> you).
>
> This is kind of a curiosity question and kind of serious. There is a chance
> that I might be offered a job where the data center is about 20 hours away
> by car (according to Google maps). Needless to say, there is no going in
> overnight to fix a problem. So I'm wondering if others here support a z/OS
> system where getting to the data center would be a long commute (unless you
> have your own plane, like some I know). How does that work out? In this
> shop, we haven't had any "operators" for about 5 years, maybe more. We
> systems people do all the hardware interfacing, tape management, IPL'ing,
> and "CE baby sitting" (being on-site while they work). This is really
> removed me from the historic paradigm. I somewhat like the thought of
> working from the house. But I also worry about being somewhat excluded from
> the unofficial information channels (i.e. company gossip). I also wonder
> about things like meetings and just being "invisible" and so "out of mind"
> when decisions are made.
>
> --
> Heisenberg may have been here.
>
> Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

[Mitch Mccluhan]

 John,

I've been working remotely for years.  The issue is being relevant.  Stay on 
top of things.  Look for areas that might benefit from your experience and 
expertise.  Don't miss ANY meetings, conference calls, etc.  Don't be shy about 
requesting anything and everything you would need to be an integral part of the 
support team.

Regards,

 

Mitch McCluhan
mitc...@aol.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: John McKown 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2016 10:57 am
Subject: remote system support (i.e. the data center is 2 states away from you).

This is kind of a curiosity question and kind of serious. There is a chance
that I might be offered a job where the data center is about 20 hours away
by car (according to Google maps). Needless to say, there is no going in
overnight to fix a problem. So I'm wondering if others here support a z/OS
system where getting to the data center would be a long commute (unless you
have your own plane, like some I know). How does that work out? In this
shop, we haven't had any "operators" for about 5 years, maybe more. We
systems people do all the hardware interfacing, tape management, IPL'ing,
and "CE baby sitting" (being on-site while they work). This is really
removed me from the historic paradigm. I somewhat like the thought of
working from the house. But I also worry about being somewhat excluded from
the unofficial information channels (i.e. company gossip). I also wonder
about things like meetings and just being "invisible" and so "out of mind"
when decisions are made.

-- 
Heisenberg may have been here.

Unicode: http://xkcd.com/1726/

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

--
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