[LUTE] LLD
Hello Everybody, Can anybody give me any opinion(s) about lutes sold by Le Lute Dore? I've been off-list for some time now, so I may have missed some discussion on this topic already. I believe they're Chinese (?). I'm just curious to hear anybody's views on whether they're any good or not. Best to reply off-list to my personal e-mail: d_lu...@comcast.net mailto:d_lu...@comcast.net . Thanks David Rastall -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Hello Ed Martin
Ed Martin, are you still out there? I've misplaced your e-mail due to a computer meltdown (don't ask...) but I have a question I want to ask you. Can you send me a message at d_lu...@comcast.net mailto:d_lu...@comcast.net please. Thanks. David Rastall -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing
It seems I am back playing Baroque lute once again, after rather a long hiatus. It’s been long enough that I have forgotten some of the points of conventional wisdom concerning stringing. I’m playing an 11c lute currently strung with silver-wound basses and Pyramid nylon mids and trebles. I’m not so much bothered by the sustain of the nylon strings, but if you folks can refresh my memory: what is the best choice of basses to get a sustain which is not downright thunky or chunky, but has shorter sustain than the silver-wounds? David R To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] The Baroque Lute Companion
Does anyone have a copy of S. Lungren’s Baroque Lute Companion that they no longer need, or for whatever reason would be willing to part with? David R To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Spain 2, Italy 1 in extratime
I don’t think anyone in the media, or the general public, knows the difference between fact and fiction. The thing is, though, they never did. Very shortly after the Big Bang, when I was a child, I remember seeing “King Richard and the Crusaders. You have to be pretty old to recognize these names, but how about Rex Harrison in blackface as Saladin and George Sanders as King Richard the Lionheart? LOL! They pretty much made it up as they went along, just as they do today. And how much historical truth was there to any of the “historical” Robin Hoods? And as for “real” history, I can think of three different accounts of the execution of Savonarola: hung by the neck over a bonfire, strangled first then burned, and just plain burned. And all three from books with footnotes! As for a sense of history,” how about Moulin Rouge for a period piece? Here’s another urban legend concerning the vihuela: I heard back in the day that Alonzo Mudarra would have played his Fantasia in the style of Ludovico the harpist using a campanela technique, as opposed to the way he wrote the piece down, because he didn’t want anybody else to discover how he managed the harp-like effect. Oh well, why labor to appreciate Machaut when you’ve got the Medieval Babes, right? David R On May 7, 2015, at 7:41 PM, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On May 7, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote: I have to say that trivial details like historical facts are often purged from any story based on historical drama in favor of popular appeal during the process of adapting for the screen. And why not, when the audience wouldn’t know the difference, and even smartalecky critics can't distinguish between history and fantasy? Four years ago, his annoyance with The Tudors fresh in his mind, Ron gave us a link to a review of Camelot, the Starz (at least that’s who aired it in these parts) series, by Sarah Dempster in The Guardian, who intoned: Two months after The Tudors staggered off on its 16th century pantomime cow, along clumps Camelot to remind us of the enduring appeal of the appallingly rendered historical epic.” Critics are as entitled to make fools of themselves, but I wonder why some editor didn't elbow her in the ribs and tell her that Camelot is no more “history than Lord of the Rings is. And no, I haven’t seen her review of Game of Thrones (which, BTW, while set in a nonexistent world, nonetheless features some authentic-looking-and-sounding Renaissance-period instruments, particularly in scenes just before a king meets a violent end.) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach, Prelude from BWV 995
On Feb 13, 2015, at 9:21 AM, Christopher Wilke chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote: I've committed the cardinal sins of using a range of colors and dynamics and otherwise neglecting to treat the music as a relic in a museum. And therein lies the artistry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Narcissiscm
â...The organization of American lutenists was dominated by an aggregation of costumed role-playing narcissists whose behavior was astoundingly juvenile when they were gathered together in one place. Seminars were little more than a fan club experience, rather than an educational opportunity, and ensemble playing was simply not in the picture. Hmmm, letâs seeâ¦which particular individual does that description remind me of? DR On Jan 24, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote: Saturday post is up. Ouch. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-16H Ron Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-16H To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
On Dec 18, 2014, at 5:25 AM, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: The point at issue was (see your earlier below) is that both Ron Andrico and you said there was no relationship what(so)ever between the tempo of a solo lute dance and the tempo at which it was actually danced. Sorry, Martyn, but those were your words. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
Neither Ron nor I were saying that there is “no relationship whatever between dancing and playing. That is your personal distortion of our words, which you correctly (for a change) quote here. My reasons for agreeing with Ron’s observation are already stated. Bye now, have a nice day. D On Dec 18, 2014, at 8:34 AM, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Well, I suppose it must have been a different Ron Andrico who wrote 'since lutes are and were inaudible when dancers' feet scrape the floor, the music is adapted and performed in whatever manner the player wishes.'. and a different David Rastall who wrote'I suggest that the player is perfectly free to choose whatever tempo he wishes.' (see earlier messages...) Martyn __ From: David Rastall d_lu...@comcast.net To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, 18 December 2014, 13:06 Subject: Re: [LUTE] those sarabands On Dec 18, 2014, at 5:25 AM, Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: The point at issue was (see your earlier below) is that both Ron Andrico and you said there was no relationship what(so)ever between the tempo of a solo lute dance and the tempo at which it was actually danced. Sorry, Martyn, but those were your words. -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
Ron did not say there was no relationship whatever” between playing and dancing a sarabande. He used the word “adapted.” Within the parameters of the dance itself, I agree with Ron entirely: “yes” in answer to MH’s question. Given what we know about the performance of other dances, for example galliards: definitely “yes. The original question concerned specifically the French school of 1610-1640” and mentions specifically Ballard. During that period sarabandes were frequently danced when an entree was called for. Do you have a specific metronome marking for playing all of Ballard’s Entrees? I hope not. The dancing masters of the time characterized the sarabande variously as brisk or slow: it can be danced equally well either way, within the floor-plan description of the dance itself. It was also considered “scandalous.” Do you have a tempo for “scandalous?” There is also some confusion here regarding the execution of sarabandes with or without dancers present. On stage, with no dancers present, I suggest that the player is perfectly free to choose whatever tempo he wishes. In his efforts to preserve an era in which no metronomes existed, I would say that the player is free to play sarabandes as scandalously as he wishes. David R On Dec 17, 2014, at 3:52 AM, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Do you really mean to say that the tempo of a dance played on, say, the lute has no relationship whatsoever to the tempo at which contemporaries actually danced it? MH __ From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com To: Thomas Walker twlute...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2014, 20:55 Subject: [LUTE] Re: those sarabands Hello Thomas: A good modernish source of information can be found in D. J. Buch, The Influence of the Ballet de cour in the Genesis of the French Baroque Suite, Acta Musicologica, Vol. 57, Fasc. 1 (Jan. - Jun., 1985), pp. 94-109. The saraband is discussed on page 102. Since so much 17th-century lute music consisted of boiled-down versions of popular dance tunes, it important to know how a particular dance worked in it's original context. Then one has to realize that, since lutes are and were inaudible when dancer's feet scrape the floor, the music is adapted and performed in whatever manner the player wishes. RA Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:03:13 -0600 To: [1]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [2]twlute...@hotmail.com Subject: [LUTE] those sarabands Greetings all-- I know the sarabande was originally a lively ditty which morphed pretty thoroughly by the late 17th century. I have a question about the middle ground, in particular the sarabandes found in Ballard's prints from the 1630s, though. Many seem to work whether played lively or stately, and I know of an old Bailes recording where he positively burns through a sarabande by Mesangeau. I also have played sarabands in ensemble works by Jenkins et al that demanded a lively reading. The question is, what textual evidence do we have for expected tempi of sarabandes of the French school 1610-1640? Thank you kindly, Thomas Walker, Jr. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/L10273-6162TMP.html 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/L10273-6162TMP.html 3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/L10273-6162TMP.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
On Dec 17, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: ...are you quite sure that you yourself really intend to say (below) ' with no dancers present, I suggest that the player is perfectly free to choose whatever tempo he wishesâ? Of course, a modern player can do what they like: but I think the issue raised was more to do with evidence of historical practice - hence Thomas Walker's reasonable request for early sources. Yes, certainly a reasonable request. And yes, that is what I intended to say. My response to Thomas Walkerâs request is: evidence of historical practice would most likely take the form of evidence gleaned from dancing masters of how the dance itself was to be done. Soâ¦go to the dancing masters for that. As to what I intended to say, just exactly what performance tempo meant to a lone lutenist in the early 17th century I couldnât say, but Iâm sure there was plenty of variety in the ways dance pieces were interpreted in the absence of any structured environment involving dancers. I took the issue raisedâ to be: early sources as a guide to contemporary performance tempi. Hence the reference to a recording by Bailes. I could be completely wrong here; Iâm treading on ground I know very little about. But surely dance music is every bit as ambiguous as, say, ricercars and fantasias. Or was there actually a set tempo for all sarabandes performed between 1610 and 1640? If so, thereâs the answer to Thomas Walkerâs question. My thought is that Iâm sure there must have been slight variationsâ¦and in the absence of metronome markings even the original sources would have been ambiguous on the subject. Davis R Martyn From: David Rastall d_lu...@comcast.net To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com; Thomas Walker twlute...@hotmail.com; Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, 17 December 2014, 14:48 Subject: [LUTE] Re: those sarabands Ron did not say there was no relationship whateverâ between playing and dancing a sarabande. He used the word âadapted.â Within the parameters of the dance itself, I agree with Ron entirely: âyesâ in answer to MHâs question. Given what we know about the performance of other dances, for example galliards: definitely âyes. The original question concerned specifically the French school of 1610-1640â and mentions specifically Ballard. During that period sarabandes were frequently danced when an entree was called for. Do you have a specific metronome marking for playing all of Ballardâs Entrees? I hope not. The dancing masters of the time characterized the sarabande variously as brisk or slow: it can be danced equally well either way, within the floor-plan description of the dance itself. It was also considered âscandalous.â Do you have a tempo for âscandalous?â There is also some confusion here regarding the execution of sarabandes with or without dancers present. On stage, with no dancers present, I suggest that the player is perfectly free to choose whatever tempo he wishes. In his efforts to preserve an era in which no metronomes existed, I would say that the player is free to play sarabandes as scandalously as he wishes. David R On Dec 17, 2014, at 3:52 AM, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Do you really mean to say that the tempo of a dance played on, say, the lute has no relationship whatsoever to the tempo at which contemporaries actually danced it? MH __ From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com To: Thomas Walker twlute...@hotmail.com mailto:twlute...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 16 December 2014, 20:55 Subject: [LUTE] Re: those sarabands Hello Thomas: A good modernish source of information can be found in D. J. Buch, The Influence of the Ballet de cour in the Genesis of the French Baroque Suite, Acta Musicologica, Vol. 57, Fasc. 1 (Jan. - Jun., 1985), pp. 94-109. The saraband is discussed on page 102. Since so much 17th-century lute music consisted of boiled-down versions of popular dance tunes, it important to know how a particular dance worked in it's original context. Then one has to realize that, since lutes are and were inaudible when dancer's feet scrape the floor, the music is adapted and performed in whatever manner the player wishes. RA Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:03:13 -0600 To: [1]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [2]twlute...@hotmail.com mailto:twlute...@hotmail.com Subject: [LUTE] those sarabands Greetings all-- I know the sarabande
[LUTE] Re: Lute iconography in pop-culture parody
Ah, yes. Palindromes! Even the name “Bob” is a palindrome. David R On Dec 4, 2014, at 1:42 PM, Christopher Stetson christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote: I know it's off-topic, but a friend recently led me to Mr. Yankovic's Bob Dylan parody, Bob, and since we're here I just have to share:A [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUQDzj6R3p4 The man is a genius. Oozy rat in a sanitary zoo! On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Edward Martin [2]edvihuel...@gmail.com wrote: Tongue up. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:15 AM, Heartistry Old [3]t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: thumb up ? ... Tom Draughon Heartistry Music [4]www.heartistry.com [5]715-682-9362 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 3, 2014, at 9:21 PM, John Mardinly [6]john.mardi...@asu.edu wrote: So is Weird Al a Thumb Under or a Thumb Out guy? Sent from my iPhone. John Mardinly [7]408 921 3253 On Dec 3, 2014, at 2:00 PM, Braig, Eugene [8]brai...@osu.edu wrote: . . . or out thereof. Eugene -Original Message- From: Heartistry Old [mailto:[9]t...@heartistrymusic.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 3:58 PM To: Dan Winheld Cc: Edward Martin; John Mardinly; Braig, Eugene; Lute Dmth ([10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu) Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute iconography in pop-culture parody Tongue-in-cheek ... Tom Draughon Heartistry Music [11]www.heartistry.com [12]715-682-9362 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 3, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Dan Winheld [13]dwinh...@lmi.net wrote: Not anymore! But they are indisputably HIS licks.A (Look it up in Likkapedia...:-P ) On 12/3/2014 11:59 AM, Heartistry Old wrote: But ... are they hot licks? On Dec 3, 2014, at 1:47 PM, Edward Martin [14]edvihuel...@gmail.com wrote: Definitely, he is playing his licks. On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:20 PM, John Mardinly [1][15]john.mardi...@asu.edu wrote: AA A He probably picked it up from Gamut during their Black Friday AA A sale.. AA A A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. AA A Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer AA A EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu AA A Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs) AA A Titan Lab: [3]480-727-5651 AA A NION UltraSTEM Lab: [4]480-727-5652 AA A JEOL ARM 200 Lab: [5]480-727-5653 AA A 2010F Lab: [6]480-727-5654 AA A Office: [7]480-965-7946 AA A John Cowley Center for HREM, LE-CSSS AA A B134B Bateman Physical Sciences Building AA A Arizona State University AA A [8]PO Box 871704 AA A [9]Tempe, AZ 85287-1704 AA A On Dec 3, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Dan Winheld [10][2][16]dwinh...@lmi.net AA A wrote: AA A Definitely tongue out. Quite appropriate for this period genre. AA A On 12/3/2014 10:50 AM, Braig, Eugene wrote: AA AA A Do with this information whatever you deem appropriate: AA A A [11][3][17]http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2014/12/weird-al-snapchat-g q. ht AA AA A ml AA AA A Eugene AA AA A To get on or off this list see list information at AA AA A [12][4][18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AA A -- References AA A 1. mailto:[5]john.mardi...@asu.edu AA A 2. tel:[6]408-921-3253 AA A 3. tel:[7]480-727-5651 AA A 4. tel:[8]480-727-5652 AA A 5. tel:[9]480-727-5653 AA A 6. tel:[10]480-727-5654 AA A 7. tel:[11]480-965-7946 AA A 8. x-apple-data-detectors://6/ AA A 9. x-apple-data-detectors://6/ AA 10. mailto:[12][19]dwinh...@lmi.net AA 11. [13][20]http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2014/12/weird-al-snapchat-gq.h tml AA 12. [14][21]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[22]john.mardi...@asu.edu 2. mailto:[23]dwinh...@lmi.net 3. [24]http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2014/12/weird-al-snapchat-gq.ht 4. [25]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. mailto:[26]john.mardi...@asu.edu 6. tel:[27]408-921-3253 7. tel:[28]480-727-5651 8. tel:[29]480-727-5652 9. tel:[30]480-727-5653 10. tel:[31]480-727-5654 11. tel:[32]480-965-7946 12. mailto:[33]dwinh...@lmi.net 13. [34]http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2014/12/weird-al-snapchat-gq.html 14. [35]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUQDzj6R3p4 2. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com 3. mailto:t...@heartistrymusic.com 4. http://www.heartistry.com/ 5. tel:715-682-9362 6. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 7. tel:408%20921%203253 8. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 9. mailto:t...@heartistrymusic.com 10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 11. http://www.heartistry.com/ 12. tel:715-682-9362 13. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 14. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com 15. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 16. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 17. http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2014/12/weird-al-snapchat-gq 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 19. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 20.
[LUTE] Jason Petty
I’m trying to reach Jason Petty. Does anyone know his contact information? Thanks, David Rastall To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bare spot on soundboard.
We-ell, not exactly. The pinkie-on-the-soundboard thing is legitimate renaissance lute technique. It's described in treatises dating all the way back to the 16th century. I once had an opportunity to play Jakob Lindberg’s Rauolf lute that dates back to 1590, and sure enough, there was the mark on the soundboard that bears the imprint of 400 years worth of pinkies! You’ll also notice that some early 19th-century guitars have a resting place glued on to the top for the player’s pinkie. Plus, I certainly wouldn’t say that Merle Travis finger style playing was developed by players with inadequate right hand techniques. Not to mention bluegrass banjo players… DR On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:57 PM, Tobiah t...@tobiah.org wrote: On 07/27/2014 01:51 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: I've worn a spot on the soundboard with my RH pinkie. The bare wood is starting to show through the finish. Should I do anything? I'm more of a guitar player, but I would suggest that this is a symptom of an undeveloped right-hand technique. I'd go as far as to say that you are witnessing the impression made by an appendage that has been long used as a crutch. Tobiah To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] LK Brown
Thanks for all your replies to my LK Brown query. Much appreciated. David R To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lawrence K Brown
I've been trying to contact LK Brown, but I can't find him online anywhere. Can someone tell me how to contact him nowadays? Thanks, David Rastall To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Fabulous Concert Last Night
Hi Luters, I had the great pleasure of hearing Emma Kirkby and Jakob Lindberg in concert last evening. Even now, at 11:00 the next morning, I'm still feeling awestruck from it. This was the best early-music concert I have ever attended. Just something about their performance seemed to set it apart from, and above, the rest. Awesome!! Actually, let me correct myself on one point: there were three performers. Jakob referred to his lute as the most senior member of our trio. It was the 1590 Rauwolf. After the concert, if that alone wasn't enough to send me home smiling, I got to meet Emma for the first time, which was really cool as I've been a long-time fan of hers, and say hello to Jakob of course, but I also had the opportunity to hold and examine this Rauwolf lute, and actually to play on it! Wow! Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:17 AM, nedma...@aol.com wrote: I've not yet put myself playing on line, but rather hope that one day I'll feel confident enough to do so. I doubt that I'll ever have the equipment necessary to edit myself. But I also wonder if I would want to do that. I think now (will my views change?) that if I'm not able to give a presentable performance of a piece without editing, that I would simply wait until I were able to. Thus far, I've assumed that everything I've seen on line has been unedited, and I've been very impressed by these performances. If you're primary concern is self-promotion, or if you live in a world where no differentiation exists between iconography and real life, then yes, you're going to want to edit yourself. But if neither the arrogance rat-race nor the dream world appeal to you, and all you want to do is share your music-making with others, warts and all, just for the love of the lute, which I've always believef was the reason for having the lute list in the first place, then I don't see that the Golden Age Is Over. That's nonsense. Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] A Viewing
Have any of you ever been hired to play at a viewing? As in where the deceased is lying in an open casket, to be viewed by family and friends...? I was hired yesterday to play at one on Monday. An hour and a half's worth of lute music. This is unique in my experience: I've never even seen a dead body before, let alone provided ambient music for such an occasion. It's gonna be interesting... Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] So, who is the left-handed lutenist? Anybody know?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyKclt8wJq8feature=related Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The reason we play lutes
On Oct 6, 2009, at 4:27 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com Nowadays - in a different era - we easily laugh at this stuff and at the polystyrene scraping ( a much more jokey, Cagey thing anyway)?. I'm not so sure we would have been so easily laughing back then. Now all that - Stockhausen, Berio etc has almost all gone. In Britain, what have we got now? Classic FM, Classical Brit Awards with the latest orchestral work by McCartney, Karl Jenkins... You lucky Brits have Gavin Bryars, really nothing to complain about. You've got Britain's Got Talent. What could be better than that? DR To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The reason we play lutes
On Oct 4, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: EM revival in general was a reaction to this type of (neo)modernism. In that context, anything is possible. I knew a college professor back in the day who was a composer. He called his work radical-neo- post-diatonicism. The weird thing was that he was deadly serious about it. That's really how he wanted to be known! I have enough trouble with Charles Mouton, without having to contend with neo-styro- HIP. Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: : Cost of a lute?
On Sep 30, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Seth Appel wrote: I am a business man and not am musician... ...it escapes me why there are not cheap but OK lutes in the marketplace. Sure, there are 300 dollar Yamaha CG's hanging on the walls of every music store in the civilized world. But that's because there's a large market for the cheap guitars among the folks who just want to try out the guitar, or try guitar lessons for their kids. Another reason why there's not much of a market for cheap lutes is that lutes are very delicate instruments and don't hold up very well under the not-so-tender ministrations of guitar players' fingernails and classical technique. No-one, as far as I know, churns out cheap lutes that can take the punishment that cheap guitars can. The lute world is all about those gorgeous paper-thin, light-as-air historical art copies, which are not really competitive in today's music business. Lutemakers don't take their instruments to the NAMM show; they go to the early-music seminar workshop venues. David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New lute music
On Sep 25, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Mark Probert wrote: It seems, to my naif ear, that the composers don't really understand the lute and how it works. Given the intervals and the tonality, why not just play this stuff on a guitar? Why not indeed! Speaking for myself, I expect a certain type of sound from the lute, that I want to consider historical, and when I don't hear that sound the lute can seem out of place. Your ear may not be as naif as you think. I can easily hear guitar in those pieces. Please don't take me for a Luddite that is lost in the 16thC: it just ain't so. I don't think one needs to be a Luddite in order to place the lute in a historical context. Not that it has to be imprisoned there, but we choose our battles: for some it's New Music On The Lute, for others it's Weiss, or Dowland, or whatever. Me, I'm lost in the 17th- century lute at this point (but that can change...). Best, DavidR To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New lute music
On Sep 25, 2009, at 6:42 PM, wikla wrote: The F-major - to me - is very soft, happy and royal, and btw. also green to me; the E-major is much more sharp and angry, and btw. to me its colour is blue. And what is most intersting to me, is that in the so called baroque tuning (a'=415Hz) and in the modern tuning (a'=440Hz) those characteristics follow the name of the key? Or better said, players tune their instruments so... Is it so? If modern pianos are tuned to something approximating ET at 440, then the so-called sombre key of C sharp minor is not going to sound as sombre as it did in Beethoven's time... ;-) And an entertaining poll: What is the colour of your F-major and E- major? Those two are clearest to me: to me there are no other alternatives to these two. D-major perhaps could be yellow? A-minor grey possible? C-major white? Well, that's enough... What about the old argument concerning Bach cantatas: instruments manufactured in both 392 and 415, and organ at 465, would have necessitated transpositions of as much as a minor third. Where does the color-coding idea fit into that scheme? You don't get a combination of colors; you get everybody playing out of tune. Bach apparently favored the idea that everybody should tune to the organ. So in a sense he was going for an artificial pitch standard. And what about the surviving wind instruments from that period: were they tuned to a particular temperament? Best, DavidR To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: ET FunFest [was: Re: New lute music]
On Sep 25, 2009, at 7:51 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I would tend to Mark Twain's exhortation to Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see. With the possible exception of the lute list? ;-) D To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: ET FunFest
On Sep 25, 2009, at 8:36 PM, howard posner wrote: The odd thing about that assumption is that we now live in era in which everyone in the West is taught a tuning system in which intonation is never perfect but never weird, and yet the music most people listen to departs from that system constantly, usually to achieve something outside the box. Singers slide in and out of the ET norm (deliberately in the case of Sinatra or Freddie Mercury, maybe accidentally in the case of Mick Jagger and Jim Morrison) and guitarists pull notes all over their their ET-fretted instruments. Gregor Piatigorsky once complained Someone sent me some Beatles albums and I found that they didn't sing in tune. There were millions of other listeners who didn't seem to mind. I don't know if Arto has really disproved that the pyramids exist, but I think you have proved the non-existence of Jimi Hendrix and B.B. King. Yeah, well, on the subject of pop music Piatigorsky was full of it! Howard's right: sliding in and out of the box is where it's at. Or maybe GP would have preferred Hey Jude sung as though it were Nessun dorma! D To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: ET FunFest
On Sep 25, 2009, at 9:33 PM, howard posner wrote: On Sep 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, David Rastall wrote: Or maybe GP would have preferred Hey Jude sung as though it were Nessun dorma! Or Pavarotti singing Queen? http://www.youtube.com/watch?vÇFGPIRJx6I Can't argue with that! Verrry cool. D -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
On Sep 5, 2009, at 10:39 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: ...The big issue that has yet to be adequately addressed is how they solved the problem of transposition when using a temperament system. If the semi-tones are not equal one just can't just transpose without introducing a real wolf den among the parts. The organ can't change and the wind players can only fudge embouchure and fingerings so far. So what did they do? Whatever they did, we know one thing for sure: they played a lot of music. DR To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopman - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
I found this very interesting: http://www.nme.com/awards/video/id/TmqhLIxNnp0/search/koopman But I don't understand: with all the transposing going on between 465, and 415, what is the outcome pitched at? When TK says, put the whole thing in Eb, and the thing is ready, my question is: Eb tuned in what?...415 or 465? Another question: if everybody was supposed to be playing at 415, why were all instruments not tuned at 415? Why were some pitched at 465, and the other French tuning at somewhere below A = 415 (I can't remember what the number is)? Apparently singers were supposed to be that flexible too... Best Regards David R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ton Koopperson - pitch of J S B Cantatas (YouTube)
On Sep 5, 2009, at 6:12 PM, howard posner wrote: For anyone interested in the historical pitch question, let me again recommend A History of Performing Pitch: The Story of 'A' by Bruce Haynes, Wasn't he the one who wrote The End Of Early Music? Good book. which contains a wealth of detail, some of it in easily digestible list form, about different pitches in different places. I've found it a useful source of information, particularly in debates over such earth-shaking issues as the Great Toy Theorbo Debate. Is that anything like the archmandora vs. octave-srung tiorbino? I can hear the historical mavens now: harrumph, hoom, well if you had ANY interest in history at ALL you'd soon realize the futility of that argument... LOL DR To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: baroque lute song?
On Jun 16, 2009, at 8:42 AM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: Given the popularity of renaissance compositions for lute and voice, I am surprised that I have not seen a single baroque lute song (of course, i'm not a musicologist and may not be looking in the right places) There are plenty of songs to be found in Baroque music: operas and oratorios are loaded with them. what changed so that the baroque lute was not popularly used to accompany voice? The lute certainly was used to accompany the voice, but it was used as a continuo instrument. That's where the change took place: continuo became the universal style according to which all music was understood in the Baroque. David Rastall To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: help for 'improving' lute and vihuela players
On May 21, 2009, at 12:02 PM, angevin...@att.net wrote: The lute world has great performers. The lute world has great teachers for those in the more advanced states of learning. What the lute world lacks is a great pedagogue. Some one with the depth of teaching experience and knowledge to put together the graded series of method books that would enable lute learning to become available to many, instead of the diehard dedicated few. There is no shortage of great lute teachers eminently capable of teaching at any level of instruction. Similarly, the level of lute pedagogy is not lacking in any way. The problem is that the United States and Europe are both very large places, and one cannot always have access to the great teachers. Two or three lessons a year at an annual seminar with one of the lute gods might not be enough to provide the basis for sound learning throughout the year. But what else can one do!? If you play the lute, you have to be willing to travel. Take piano pedagogy, a subject in which some people have Phd's. Yet would any of them advise going out and buying the method books by Alfred, Bastien, the Fabers etc., and simply telling people that that is all they need to learn the basics of piano playing? Of course not! They would all agree that pedagogy is useless without the more- than-occasional presence of a teacher. So it is with the lute. There are great teachers in every area of music, and yes, they do travel around a lot. But you have to be willing to travel also. This is true of any instrument, and any type of musical study. The teachers don't come to you; you have to go to them. The way to find out about lute pedagogy is as follows: take a recording device to the next seminar workshop you go to. Record every master class, private lesson you take, house concert, if it's allowed, and any other event, for example where question-and-answer sessions are going on. Don't just go just with the attitude of taking a week off in order to groove on the lute for a week. And most importantly, keep in mind the operative word is workshop, not worship. Don't go in order to worship! Worshipping the lute gods will avail you nothing. To make the most of a seminar workshop week, go armed with specific questions, based on clear ideas of YOUR OWN short-term and long-term goals on the lute. Go armed with questions concerning technique, performance practice, whatever else you need to know. I have the impression that lute players do not advance as quickly as they could, because they spend too much time being in awe of the lute gods. The gods are not there to be adored; well, one or two of them are, but the only ones who are worth anything as teachers are the ones who are there for you to pick their brains. Also, as a supplemental benefit, the lute mailing list is a fantastic source of pedagogical insight. David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
On May 9, 2009, at 4:07 PM, Martin Eastwell wrote: If I remember correctly, Holbein in The Ambassadors painted a broken string on the octave of the 4th course. One would naturally tend to depict course one as broken, but of course the octave on the 4th course is only a tone below course one. I assume Holbein was showing off his musical knowledge, alongside the symbolism of broken strings. So, uh...what is the symbolism of broken strings? David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Minuet and Trio
Dear Wisdom, In the mid-Baroque (specifically Lauffensteiner), when you're playing a minuet and trio, is it historically accurate to play them at slightly different tempi, or is that strictly a Classsical-period thing? I'm curious because I don't remember seeing very many minuet / trio sections from the early 17th century. David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
On May 8, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: Menuet - trio - menuet seems to be a galant-style thing. Definitely 18th-century, though. Actually, I was mistaken when I said early 17th century. I meant to say late 17th century. I'm working on a suite in F Major by Lauffensteiner, and was surprised to see the minuet / trio. I for one would certainly play them at different tempo so as to emphasize their different moods. Thanks for the advice. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
On May 8, 2009, at 1:42 PM, howard posner wrote: On May 8, 2009, at 9:24 AM, David Rastall wrote: In the mid-Baroque (specifically Lauffensteiner), when you're playing a minuet and trio, is it historically accurate to play them at slightly different tempi, or is that strictly a Classsical-period thing? Someone who actually danced the minuet, or played the minuet as dance music, would likely not have changed the tempo, because it messes up the dancing. Isn't it possible that the dancers might have paused in the dance at the end of the minuet, and started the trio at a different tempo as set by the musicians? That's a frequent occurence in dance music, isn't it? (non-rhetorical questions). The minuet and trio I'm looking at here have quite different feels to them. The minuet is in F and the trio is in Dm. Not that anyone would be dancing to Lauffensteiner, but they would think of dance movements as dance music. I agree, they would. Me too. Perhaps I need to articulate the minuet better, so I don't get bored with it and want to change something at the first chance I get! David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
On May 8, 2009, at 4:06 PM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: I didn't even notice the broken strings... Such paintings were so often packed with subtle symbolism - Does anyone have an idea why the painter would go to the trouble of painting a lute with broken strings - what meaning would that convey? And upside down, at that. David R also intrigued dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Nylgut fret strings
On May 6, 2009, at 5:16 PM, David van Ooijen wrote: Should read: do not use nylgut. Full stop. Nylgut works pretty well on my 13-c for courses 3, 4 and 5, and octaves w/copper-wound basses. 1st and 2nd courses in Pyramid nylon. What's your string-material of choice? Gut? David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Is peg-box decoration safe?
On Apr 21, 2009, at 10:23 PM, Edward Martin wrote: This is a good question. There is a great deal of historic precedence for having a decorated peg box, and I see no reason to hesitate. I have a relatively old baroque lute, built in 1984 by Richard Berg, based on the Burkholtzer/Edlinger model, and the pegbox remains strong, with no evidence of weakening. The design is exactly as dome by Edlinger. I think it perhaps has more to do with the builder, if he or she knows how to do it properly. Nicholas, That would be my answer too. If the lute is well built, it should not come unraveled. Most luthiers I know will stand by their work to the point that, if the lute develops problems right away, they will repair it usually under some kind of warranty arrangement. Otherwise, it depends how gently you treat the lute over time. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Donna Curry
Happy Easter everyone, I sent an Easter e-mail greeting to Donna Curry this evening, but the message was sent back undeliverable immediatelly. Does anyone know if she is okay, or have I missed something, and if she is okay can someone be kind enough to let me have her current e-mail address? Thanks, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Basses loaded, bottom of the 9th
On Feb 28, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: We also have to remember that the Old Ones didn't have highly engineered twist drills for every 0.1mm, so they may well have drilled some oversize holes as a matter of technical practicality. The small holes can be explained by increased string density (loading or winding with metal, for instance) or low tension, or only part of the string going through the hole, or maybe something we haven't thought of yet - but it's not magic. I suppose lutemakers back then made what they regarded as standard- sized bridgeholes, for trebles as well as basses. Maybe it would help to know what a standard bridgehole size was for bass strings. At least standard for, say, 1648 to 1750. ;-) - so it's not good enough to say we don't know how they did it so we might as well just use overspun strings Who says that? , at least not if we have any interest in how the lute might have sounded before the invention of modern wound strings. Lots of variables there, going way beyond stringing! Can our 20thC ears possibly be attuned to the point that we would recognize the true sound if we heard it? (I hope it wasn't anything like the lute- stop on a harpsichord!) ...I would still like someone to produce a synthetic bass string with similar characteristics to the best gut bass strings we currently have. So would I!! Best, Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 7 course English pieces
On Feb 25, 2009, at 3:42 AM, Omer Katzir wrote: My dear friend, it actually seems that DR, and other friends missed the whole point. I never asked for someone to look pieces for me, I only asked for recommendation for pieces that can be found in Serge's and Wayne's websites. Unfortunately to me, I don't have libraries to get information from, the nearest library with early music is in Italy (maybe I can find something in Egypt or Turkey), my main source of information is my teacher, but he can't keep every piece of music ever written, I take from him almost every thing I can to study. What I can't take from him, I usually take from both sites, and If I can't find there, so I'm looking in few editions to buy, and I buy when I can. Some folks here plays many years, and I figured they have some recommendation for pieces. And if someone will ask me for some six- course german music, I will recommend instead of attacking him. Omer, I'm sure there are lots of people on this list who will recommend pieces from the lists you mention. If I miss the point of that, it's because I don't see it that way. To me, part of my education into lute playing is learning about the historical sources of the music, and where they can be found. Wayne's Lute Page and Sarge's website contain very convenient lists of pieces, but they are not designd to be a substitute for the historical source material. At least I hope not anyway. To find the historical sources, you have to do a little research, and also be willing to spend some money. My recommendation is: if you seriously want to find out about English lute music, contact the English Lute Society, the Lute Society of America, or for that matter any of the lute societies, and find out from them where the sources of the music can be found. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 7 course English pieces
On Feb 24, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Omer Katzir wrote: But...not songs or dowland's stuff... Only english. And that can be found in Wayne's or Serge's site. Anything you can come up with will be a big help to me, so I thank you all ahead. Are you sugggesting that we all go scouring through Wayne's and Sarge's websites and find 7-course pieces for you, while you do nothing? Do your own research for once! We all did. You can too. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 7 course English pieces
On Feb 24, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Omer Katzir wrote: I'm looking in some few books, but thank you for being an a*** Let me tell you something, Omer. Those lists of pieces you refer to on Wayne's and Sarge's websites, were painstakingly put together by people who acquired the knowledge to be able to find the sources of this music. You will never know enough to do that for yourself, so don't try to impress me with your BS research projects. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Straight Answer Please
On Feb 23, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote: Wonderful! You are getting closer, grasshoppers. Ah, but do not forget, glasshoppah...stopped string lengths of low 80's make for toy dreams only. What does modern Western popular wisdom know about the power of objects? Has it ever heard the voice of a shamanic drum speaking? Sam Rizzetta once walked out of a jam session because he didn't like the sound of my bohdran. So it goes... David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Straight Answer Please
The current topic under discussion of toy theorbos has failed so far to answer the one question without which there is no basis for discussion at all, namely, what size does a theorbo have to be so that it can no longer be called a toy theorbo? I request a straight answer, please: no letters in the body of the answer except cm following some numbers. David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Straight Answer Please
On Feb 22, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: 42 8) Mathias Thank you, Mathias. You're the only one who has given me what I requested: a straight numerical answer. Unfortunately, wrong question! ;-) Conclusion: it is easier on the lute list to get the answer to life, the universe and everything, than it is to obtain a simple string length. So it goes... Seriously, I do appreciate everyone's comments. The whole question of when is a lute not a lute or in this case, when is a theorbo really a theorbo, is something I find incomprehensible. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale
On Feb 17, 2009, at 3:37 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: If we have any pretensions to 'Historically Informed Performance' Do you think we're all being pretentious? it is clearly daft to ignore historic precedent and practice. It's impossible to be 100% historical about anything. Besides, the great variety of historical lutes-like instruments, and the radical changes that occurred in lute history, tell me that people were just as daft back then. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:32 AM, William Brohinsky wrote: Is it somehow illegal to play music for long theorbos on short theorbos? If you wish to play the music of Kapsberger or Piccininni, but cannot afford to buy (or cannot manage to borrow) a theorbo longer than some criteria (which hasn't really been stated, but is obviously longer than the 92mm/67mm instrument I played last semester), you are daft. Either you don't tune double-reentrant (thus satisfying Martyn and screwing up voice leading, which is daft) or you do (which, by Martyn's definition is daft.) The obvious conclusion is that any theorbo player who isn't rich and wishes to play music written for double-reentrant theorbo is daft. So, by logical extension, being poor and wanting to play some of the most beautiful music (or quirky, or whatever happens to attract you to the music) means you are daft. But then, isn't a fundamental criterion for playing a 5' or 6' long, delicate instrument with enough strings to pass for a small harp, as long as it doesn't involve passing through a door, being daft? So I guess I don't see the purpose in this particular set of decision criteria. Daft old world, isn't it? And, according to Martyn's historical pretensions, daft new one too. ;-) Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: Pretension: justifiable claim (OED). I'll take that as a no to my question. Martyn, I'm not entirely sure what your justification is for advocating large theorbos only. I realize that this has been discussed on the list before, but as I don't want to comb through the archives to find it, perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you think that those who play small theorbos, especially in double reentrant tuning, are all daft (perhaps you can also provide an appropriate OED definition of daft). We accept the existence of the smaller French solo theorbo, and we know that music designed for double reentrant tuning was written for that instrument. Doesn't that constitute a justifiable claim that it isn't daft to string a French solo theorbo in double reentrant? David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale
On Feb 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Mark Wheeler wrote: To be fair to Martyn, he is merely using one of the fundamentals of historical lute stringing, the highest string is tuned to the highest pitch that is possible with the thinnest useable string. Fair enough. When they started making the big theorbos, reentrant tuning became necessary. No problem so far. So if you have one of those small theorboes then tune the highest string (the 3rd course) to e, the first to d. You mean I should simulate on my small theorbo the conditions imposed upon the stringing by the big ones? I'm not so sure about that one... Or as Martyn says tune only the first course down an octave for the first course at a. And to be fair to Martyn, that would work perfectly well for bc. But how about the French solo repertoire, which is written for a smaller instrument yet calls for double reentrant? If I have a larger string that I can use for a second course an octave lower on my toy theorbo, is that daft or practical? I think it's practical. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Breaking pitch
Oh, this is classic, Golden Age lute list stuff here! Hah!! DR On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:42 PM, alexander wrote: No one seems to object, and the talk continues as if the very people that gave us all the amazing instruments we play, were totally ignorant as far as the oh, so stupid tune almost to the breaking point line goes. The simple truth of the matter is that any string made of the same material will break at the same pitch, no matter its' diameter, as long as the string length is the same. Some here still remember Eph Segerman?.. The stress on the string (represented by S) is the tension divided by the cross-sectional area, so S=T/A. The tensile strength of a material is defined as the stress at breaking (which we can represent by SB). Then the breaking frequency, represented by fB becomes: fB = (1/2L)sqrt(SB/ï²). This demonstrates that the breaking pitch is inversely proportional to the string stop. In the formula, (as can not be seen here, unfortunately) the invert relation is only between the pitch, length and the breaking point stress. Diameter plays no role. All this means a very simple truth - all the instruments of the same mensura tuned close to the breaking point of a given material, will have the same pitch, to the same degree as an organ pipe of the same length and diameter will produce the same pitch, be it in France or England. I hazard to say that, among professionals who used no rotten strings and preferred particular strings made by the same makers and even at particular time of the year, the pitch standard was no worse then nowadays. alexander On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:29:32 -0800 howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On Feb 17, 2009, at 5:43 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: How many of us really follow this fundamental of lute stringing today? We tune our instruments to arbitrarily agreed upon pitches like 415, 392, 440 etc because its practical. If we were to do the truly historical thing, Jeff's G lute would be at 449, Joe's at 412, Tina's at 463 and Bill's at 398. That wouldn't have worked in 1610 either. They all had to use an agreed pitch if they were going to play together, unless they were into the whole John Cage thing. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html dlu...@verizon.net --
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo by Nic. Nic. B. van der Waals for sale
On Feb 16, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: A small theorbo is called a 'toy' theorbo when, because of its relatively small size As I recall, toy is your own appellation, rather than some general historical definition. which only really requires the first course to be at the lower octave, the second is also unnecessarily lowered: it's all down to how the individual player strings it, not some inherent characteristic of the instrument itself. You're saying that size brings about the necessity to use double reentrant tuning. But that's not to say that people with smaller instruments do it unnecessarily. I'm sure many of us (myself included) do it because of the way double reentrant tuning sounds. My theorbo is small enough at 79cm on the fretboard to use single reentrant tuning, but I personally prefer the sound of double reentrant over single. With single reentrant there's too much second- string sound, at least in my mind anyway. Besides, double reentrant provides the characteristic uniqueness of the theorbo! It's what makes a theorbo a theorbo, regardless of size. I can tune my 10- course in double reentrant if I want to. That would truly be a toy theorbo! Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transposed Dowland songs??
On Feb 15, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Lex van Sante wrote: Hi all! Andrew wrote: On the subject of lutenists accommodating (or not) singers: Is there any evidence of what temperament the lutenist and singer - I'm thinking mainly of late 16th c lute songs - would have agreed on? Would the lutenist tune to get close to the temperament the singer had trained to sing in (just intonation?) - or would the singer helpfully adjust to suit the tending-towards-ET lute accompaniment? Or does it just work with voice and lute in different temperaments? I've never been clear about this... A not-so-unlikely scenario: soprano: Uh, I think we're a little harsh-sounding at this point here. lutenist: Uh, I am playing in multiple- comma-6thtone-7thtone-8thtone-9thtone-semicolontone-meantone tuning, which is the appropriate tuning for the period of April 17th, 1589 through March 25th, 1637: the era that this song comes from soprano thinks, what is this guy, some kind of seminar junkie? and goes out and finds herself a better musician. lutenist for ever after condemns all sopranos for being temperamental and stubbornly resistant to his attempts to educate them in the ways of HIP soprano finds another lutenist. They try the song. It comes out perfectly. soprano, delighted with her second lutenist, repeats to herself the old dictum, when you're working with a good musician there's not much need to say anything; when you're not working with a good musician, there's not much point in saying anything In my opinion composers who set music to words would have been inclined to use special sonorities offered by unequal temperaments to underline the sentiment of word. A singer singing in another temperament would certainly destroy or at least alter these effects. Agreed, but adjustments can be made if both musicians know what they're doing, and are willing to negotiate. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute song pitch for singers
On Feb 13, 2009, at 4:18 PM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: If a singer needs to sing it lower, that is more than a whim. Often vocal material is composed at the extremity of the average range to achieve a particular musical effect; when the original pitch was not aD0 this further strains the vocalist. Agreed absolutely. Some singers are merely talented amateurs and have limitations on the instrument that is their voice; but even those with well developed vocal instruments will have preferences that reflect endurance as well as vocal quality. In some instances, the more highly trained the singer, the harder it is for her to sing outside an acceptable range. It depends on the singer: some are more inflexible than others. In any case, I think it's best to accomodate the needs of the singer. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: RH position, was: Dilettantism
On Feb 9, 2009, at 5:56 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: May I remind all of you interested in that thread on hand position, that I had put up a couple of web pages with iconographical evidence about that very same point. You will find it there : for the renaissance : http://le.luth.free.fr/renaissance/index.html for the 17th century : http://le.luth.free.fr/baroque/index.html for the 18th century : http://le.luth.free.fr/baroque2/index.html It's fascinating to examine those images of past players, just as it is to watch players today, but let's not forget what that examination teach us: that each player's right hand, living or dead, is different to all the others. There must be a message in that somewhere... davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] NN's Continuo Book
Hi all, Does anyone know where one can obtain a copy of Nigel North's book on continuo? David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: meantone fret position measurements
On the subject of fret placement, what about fret placement on the Baroque lute? Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dilettantism
On Feb 6, 2009, at 7:11 PM, jsl...@verizon.net wrote: Isn't it possible that playing several plucked instruments can be mutually reinforcing? If I spend all day playing the vihuela, won't that improve my lute playing? If I work on achieving perfect, pearl-like tones on my six-course, won't that improve my tone on the ten-course? If I learn to play the bass strings on my baroque lute, won't that help me on the theorbo basses? If I learn to play continuo on the theorbo, won't that make me a better all-round musician? Agreed. Absolutely. The lute world consists of a diversity of instruments, and off-hand I can't think of any professional virtuosi who have confined themselves to just one of them. My point is that I don't think their virtuosity has been diminished by the variety of instruments they have recorded on. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
On Feb 3, 2009, at 1:19 AM, David Tayler wrote: I'm old fashioned, I guess; I think the old ways are better. So do I. But the expression the old ways covers a multitude of sins. I don't like, for example, those old recordings of the Matthew Passion where the opening chorus takes longer than the entire piece would take in a modern recording! I'm exaggerating of course, but I get a strong sense that the 19th-C Romantic take on Baroque music was not exactly what we would consider good music today, another e.g. Stokowski's Bach. Ditto the 20th-C modern take on 19th-C Romanticism: Berlioz played by a 100-piece symphony orchestra consisting of notemachines trained to play like human midi- files is not exactly going to knock my socks off! We love to change the past in order to make it better. Or so we rationalize. Didn't JS Bach add his own basso continuo to one of the Palestrina masses. Yikes!!! But Bach himself, who I think had great respect for the stile antico would have thought that he was improving the piece by bringing it up to date. The question is, what exactly were the old ways? Did the old ones play their allemandes and bourees with their local lute god's fingering and ornament instructions propped up in front of them. I imagine they all did at first, but sooner or later one has to go beyond the primer stage and get into the music on one's own terms. Segovia once likened all the rules and regulations involved in learning music, as a scaffolding: eventually the scaffolding has to come down, and the building will then, hopefully, be able to stand on its own... I also think one learns more form one note of a great player than a whole book of deconstructionist. Absolutely! Deconstruction is temporary; music is forever. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
On Feb 3, 2009, at 1:19 AM, David Tayler wrote: I'm old fashioned, I guess; I think the old ways are better. So do I. But the expression the old ways covers a multitude of sins. I don't like, for example, those old recordings of the Matthew Passion where the opening chorus takes longer than the entire piece would take in a modern recording! I'm exaggerating of course, but I get a strong sense that the 19th-C Romantic take on Baroque music was not exactly what we would consider good music today, another e.g. Stokowski's Bach. Ditto the 20th-C modern take on 19th-C Romanticism: Berlioz played by a 100-piece symphony orchestra consisting of notemachines trained to play like human midi- files is not exactly going to knock my socks off! We love to change the past in order to make it better. Or so we rationalize. Didn't JS Bach add his own basso continuo to one of the Palestrina masses. Yikes!!! But Bach himself, who I think had great respect for the stile antico would have thought that he was improving the piece by bringing it up to date. The question is, what exactly were the old ways? Did the old ones play their allemandes and bourees with their local lute god's fingering and ornament instructions propped up in front of them. I imagine they all did at first, but sooner or later one has to go beyond the primer stage and get into the music on one's own terms. Segovia once likened all the rules and regulations involved in learning music, as a scaffolding: eventually the scaffolding has to come down, and the building will then, hopefully, be able to stand on its own... I also think one learns more form one note of a great player than a whole book of deconstructionist. Absolutely! Deconstruction is temporary; music is forever. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: players getting better--was Trench Fill
On Feb 3, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: That may be stretching Darwin's intent a little far. Consider the continued popularity of Segovia amongst the masses, perhaps one of the most inflexible pluckers in the recorded history of pluck. Perhaps I'm thinking of evolution in a different way. I think the 20th-C guitarists did a great deal, individually, to further the evolution of the classical guitar back in their day, by placing certain demands upon individual luthiers, adapting their own personal techniques to suit modern concert halls etc. etc. Darwin recognized that individuals don't adapt. Well, Darwin non-dis-irregardless, individuals do adapt. Inasmuch as the lute revival has evolved from the way it was in the 60's to the way it is now, that's got to be a function of individuals adapting to fresh ideas, different approaches. That's the role of populations, and diverse populations tend to be able to adapt more quickly in the face of change. Seems to me that populations change; whereas individuals adapt. Diverse populations change more quickly, bringing about new conditions to which each individual must adapt or be left behind. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
On Feb 3, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Jerzy Zak wrote: Besides, I keck at the sight of such incantations as ...music is forever. Oh gosh, I wouldn't want to arouse any kind of reaction such as that! ;-) ;-) I was merely paraphrasing filmmaker Peter Jackson. When his actors would complain that he was driving them too hard, he would reply, just remember, pain is temporary...film is forever. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tempi in French baroque from Lully to Couperin?
On Feb 3, 2009, at 4:33 PM, Andreas Schlegel wrote: Very often there were different tempos for the same dance f.ex. for a Courante: a slower and a faster type. Was it perhaps a matter of mood as well as tempo? Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
On Feb 1, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Mark Wheeler wrote: You should check out Bruce Haynes book The end of early music I couldn't agree more. It's a very good read. Although Haynes is a strong advocate for the writing of new music in the Baroque style, which makes me balk a little bit. I'd rather go to original 17th- or 18th-Century sources than try to deal with French trills in something written last Tuesday. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Old Satoh Vinyl Recording
Do any of you remember the old vinyl record set, from around 1970, of Toyohiko Satoh playing French lute music? I've been trying without success to find a CD of that recording. Have I missed something? Is there a CD version available somewhere? david r dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
On Jan 28, 2009, at 4:19 PM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009, Jean-Marie Poirier jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr said: I believe feather is a technical term in rowing and in this case would mean something like dig. But I may be totally wrong of course ;-) ! rather the opposite, one feathers an oar by twisting the wrists during the recovery stroke making the blade parallel to the water so it wont dig in. So, erm...what's that got to do with Baroque ornamentation? David Taylor's expression feathering them in, referring to certain kinds of ornaments, is a bit vague, but might have the connotation of touching the music very lightly with the ornaments. At least, touching something very lightly is one definition I read for feathering as a verb. Only DT knows for sure... David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach Telemann
On Jan 24, 2009, at 4:42 PM, David Tayler wrote: ...and the leather shoes that some insist on wearing, sigh. Incredible. You have a problem with people who insist on wearing leather shoes. That's such a California notion! DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Mayes, Joseph wrote: They wouldn't think of firing the lute professor? Oh yeah, there is no lute professor. It works both ways. I can think of a number of highly accomplished and successful lutenists and musiclologists in the lute world with academic positions as solid and secure as anyone's, at places where the guitar guy would still be the first to go. No chance to eliminate 20 or so versions of Kemp's Jig. Touche! Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On Jan 18, 2009, at 12:37 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry to be a downer but I'm afraid, despite the awesome technical abilities of many performers today, that the CG world is slipping from the heights it attained in the mid 20th century once more into the cultural wasteland of vapidity. Just goes to show that awesome technical ability doth not culture make. I don't think it's just the guitar players (although I agree that the CG world is more bland nowadays than it was in the old days). I think classical music in general has slipped from the sad heights it occupied in the early to mid 20th C. IMO the more that traditional culture slips through our fingers, the more we rely upon note machines, human or otherwise, to carry our music for us. It's a sad state of affairs. Personally, I blame Paganini. ;-) DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 'notable composers (lute, vihuela and guitar)'
On Jan 18, 2009, at 10:16 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: ...No envy here. Me neither. As a player on both instruments I'm not exactly in competition with myself! ...You'd quickly realize that the world can do without yet another 20 student versions of Leyenda (and 20 students who don't know that the title of their favorite piece isn't even Leyenda). Not to mention another 20 student versions of the Moonlight Etude. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: songs of life and death
Beautiful Lachrimae! David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 11 or 13
On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:02 AM, sterling price wrote: ...For me, after playing a 13 course for many years, I wouldn't dream of playing an instrument that didn't have an octave of open bass strings. In some music I've been playing recently (Losy, Lauffensteiner) which was written for 11-c, I'm very glad to have that open B-flat available on my 13-c. It does make life a lot easier. The voice of dissent on that point, however, seems to be that some players prefer to play the French-styled repertoire on the lighter-sounding 11-c instrument. ...it certainly doesn't deserve the reputation it has. That's for sure. There seems to be some kind of mystique that surrounds the Baroque lute, created in part I think by renaissance players who find themselves swimming in very different waters when they play Baroque music. The music itself, the technique, the tuning and the instrument itself are a different world than that of renaissance lute. Actually, the only lutenists I've ever heard complaining about, or shying away from, that decadent, late-period Baroque lute came from the ranks of renaissance players. From the players I've met who have played only Baroque lute (not many, admittedly), I've never heard a complaint, no matter how hard the music was. I think the 13 course lute is a remarkable achievment the result of many centuries of progression. To continue to label it as it had been in the 18th century til now as something -so- difficult is really 'bad for business'. I think 18th-century music in general is a difficult proposition. It seems to me to have been misunderstood for a long time, first by the Romantics, then by academia. In our post-post-post-ultrapost-modern perception today, perhaps we are making some progress towards a more syncretic understanding of Baroque music. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On Jan 9, 2009, at 4:25 PM, wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote: Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be interesting? There is an English pianist named Christopher Seed who plays left- handed piano: see www.lefthandedpiano.co.uk/ Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: was :Re: Re : Re: restring?, now A simple Cure
On Jan 9, 2009, at 6:32 PM, A.J. Padilla, M.D. wrote: Rather than change the lute, you could just treat the sinistrality. There's a new medication out now, called AmbiDextrose Would that make both my hands a right hand? Now there's a thought... davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo question
On Jan 5, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Guy Smith wrote: I plan to seek professional assistance soon, but in the interim, a tuning question. The instrument is currently in A. I could retune it to G, so I could more easily transfer my experience with the G lute, or I could leave it in A and relearn a bunch of chords. Any advice on which option is likely to be preferable? FWIW, I don't have to perform on it for around 6 months, so relearning the chords should be manageable, although the next rehearsal or two might be a bit rough. I think it's a good idea to become familiar with both G and A tunings. I find that chords in flat keys, and also G major of course, fall under the hand better in G tuning, whereas D and A (major and minor) are easier in A tuning. It's initially a question of learning to read bass lines in staff notation on the bass clef, and you can practice that on a renaissance lute in G, as well as on your A instrument. Do you have Nigel North's book on bc playing? davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: le Tocsein de Gautier
I might have missed something here, getting into the discussion late (I rejoined today---hellew everyone), but doesn't the English word tocsin refer to the pealing of a bell? I always thought tocsin came from an old form of French. Could some form of the word have existed in French in the 17th century with a similar meaning? Used perhaps in similar sense to Vallet's piece depicting bells in a village church. Davidr dlu...@verizon.net On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:48 PM, damian dlugolecki wrote: At the moment this is only a guess, but I believe the 'tocsin' of Mouton and that of D. Gautier have something to do with disease. The word 'toxin' only come into the English language during the 19th century. My OED defines it originally as A specific poison...produced by a microbe which causes a particular disease.' By this perhaps we can infer that this was closer to the original French meaning than to our current understanding of the word 'toxin' as some kinde of poison. There were many diseases like typhus, smallpox, cholera etc. that wiped out large numbers of people. I need to find a French dictionary like my OED. My Larousse does not have historical meanings or etymologies. In any case, the pieces by Gautier and Mouton are very similar, and it seems to me that the Mouton piece is transposition to f#m of D. Gautier's piece in e minor. The repeated low 'B' has a funerary feeling to me anyway and it appears throughout Mouton's piece as a low C#. But even though it is possible these 'tocsins' were about disease, they are gigues and should be played at faster tempos. Played in the salons of Paris during recurrences of 'la Peste' they were perhaps demonstrations of musical 'black humor.' -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Merula Ciaccona
On Nov 9, 2008, at 6:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look, if I wanted to read this kind of crap, I'd frequent the classical guitar list. This makes this list not worth it for me. With great reluctance, I have to conclude that, put plainly, either igor goes or I go. Jim Abraham I'm with you, man. I don't need this crap either. All it does is make me cranky and confrontational, and I don't want that. I just got back on to ask a question about continuo. I'm gone. Sayonara boys and girls. DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Continuo Question
David, Matthias, Roman, thanks for your input on my continuo question. Best, Davidr [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Continuo Question
What's up guys, Continuo question: how do you play basso continuo in a fugue, where the voices are played one-on-a-part? My problem is I don't know what to do with the places in the music where the bass is not playing. Any suggestions? Davidr [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Continuo Question
What's up guys, Continuo question: how do you play basso continuo in a fugue, where the voices are played one-on-a-part? My problem is I don't know what to do with the places in the music where the bass is not playing. Any suggestions? Davidr [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dowland's Lutes--the hidden piece
On Jul 24, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Robert Margo wrote: I think Mr. Tayler is referring to the 14th piece in Francisque (counting from the beginning of the book). I played it this morning. It is definitely a Dowland theme. That's what I was thinking. It's a Dowland theme, which Francisque took and wrote a galliard on it. Does that make it a piece by Dowland? DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Piccinini's rolls
On Jul 22, 2008, at 5:29 PM, David Tayler wrote: I think Peachy falls into the very picky category. Hard to ignore the first responders. Indulge me some room to babble a bit about Merle Travis here. I personally think that Merle Travis did the same for American country music in the 1930's that Kap and Peachy did for Italian lute music in the 1630's (give or take a year or two): he provided a definitive way of playing it. Merle's style was not derivative: he had very few predecessors to learn from. But those who came after him emulated his playing to the point that it became known as Travis picking. Doc Watson even named his son after him. That's pretty cool, right? But it was not Merle's thumb-and-one-finger technique that made him legendary. It was his sound. Chet Atkins and all the others who played in that style were going for that sound, and came to it each in his own way, some using thumb plus all four RH fingers! (if you want to hear some wild Travis picking, find Doyle Dykes on YouTube.) Okay, finally my point: I'm suggesting that it was probably the same with K and P: people heard them play and wanted that sound, which in it's day was the sound of the new music. I'm willing to bet that lutenists who heard those guys play used that sound as a yardstick for developing their own ways of playing. Never having heard that sound first hand ourselves, I guess we have try to recreate it by studying the sources, hopefully throwing a bit of intuition into the mix along the way. But the last word as to what K's and P's music can sound like today, is in our hands. My point is that we can all develop our own style of Travis picking. Thanks for reading all the way to the end. DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Take II: last joints that bend backwards.
On Jul 17, 2008, at 10:25 AM, David Tayler wrote: The next step (aka the next level) is now becoming an interesting pedagogical device. Teachers find that it is a good way to encourage people, as opposed to to an approach based on square one or fundamentals. A lot of teachers are using it; a lot are discussing it. Teachers use it as a way of safely critiquing other teacher's work indirectly a well. The idea of square one is frumpy, old fashioned and unattractive. I don't think the next step is necessary the next level. I've got plenty to do still on the level I'm on now! Anyhow, I didn't get that phrase next step from any teacher. I just always think of it that way in relation to my own playing. I'm not much of a lesson taker, or a seminar goer: generally I prefer to work intuitively by myself, until I think it might be beneficial to ask one of the heavy hitters for advice. As for the fundamentals: I go back to them all the time. I begin each practice session at square one. with warm-up exercises that are generally at the square one level. The question it raises is whether the method effectively avoids addressing the core skills, jury is out on that one. Well, how many lutenists live near enough a good lute teacher to take regular lessons? Not many, right? Many, perhaps most, have to be content with whatever they can get at the various seminar workshop weeks. I imagine the lessons offered at the seminars are on various skill levels, but even so it's only for a few days at a time. Very few luters take lessons once a week on a regular basis. Mostly we have to pick up what we can, wherever we can find it, and what we get may or may not include solid grounding in the basics. That's nobody's fault in particular: it's just the way it is. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Worth a Listen
Dear Luters, Someone passed this along to me, and I think it's well worth a listen. Of course, it has nothing to do with lute playing...or does it?! http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passion.html David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Try Again
Let me try that again: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passion.html D [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Take II: last joints that bend backwards.
On Jul 16, 2008, at 9:15 PM, Herbert Ward wrote: Sorry for not being clear. I meant to ask about right-hand technique. Is the extra flexibility of significant help in the right hand? Dear Herbert, I would say yes, definitely. I had a couple of sessions with Richard Stone in May and June, and we talked about this quite a bit. I'm trying to make the changeover from 35 years of renaissance lute thumb- under, to some form of Baroque lute thumb out, or at least thumb- middle. It's a difficult thing to jump into. One of the points that Richard bought out as being the next step in my right-hand progress, was to tell me to play with a lot of flexibility in my right hand fingertips. You can also get some advice on this subject, from Ronn MacFarlane's web site: http://www.ronnmcfarlane.com/lute/btb/BTB_11_Tone_Control.pdf Ronn sees that last joint on your right hand as your tone Control. Best wishes David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bizarre info request, bordering on advice request
On Jul 7, 2008, at 10:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the option you really should consider facing (even though it hurts to think about it) is to bite the bullet and buy a real theorbo. It will sound so much better. Also, if you make a compromise instrument, you'll only learn to play that specific theorbo. Not that public opinion is everything, but what's the point of going for the legitimate degree if no one takes you seriously the minute you open your case because of your rigged-up lute? I agree, as a serious player, one needs to have a good instrument; but on the other hand public opinion is not the best reason in the world to part with thousands of dollars. As far as being taken seriously, audiences mostly enjoy being entertained. Many of them have never seen a lute actually being played before, so they're interested in the instrument and what it sounds like. As for those who sit out there judging us on the precise angle of our pinkies, and the precise length of our apoggiaturas, well, any damn fool can be a critic. But how many can get up there and play...? Sorry to be blunt, but there are a fair number of snobs in early music who try to outdo each other with the severity of their various tuning/temperament/string material/instrument choice/etc. fetishes. While these are all legitimate areas of investigation, the unfortunate fact is that there are those who will judge you more on these factors than your playing. It's true there is a certain amount of theorbo-envy in the lute community. And why not? Size is everything, right? ;-) ;-) As for being judgemental, it's good to bear in mind that when we point a finger, we always have three fingers pointing back at ourselves. DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bizarre info request, bordering on advice request
On Jul 7, 2008, at 6:03 PM, howard posner wrote: On Jul 7, 2008, at 2:43 PM, William Brohinsky wrote: Give me a nice tame electron... Now I think you're addressing your request to the wrong group. Only wild electrons on this list. Ones that have been drawn out of their shells...?? DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Improvising and Composing?
On Jul 6, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Michael Gillespie wrote: Does anyone have any comments on improvising trills and other accents? You mean...(gasp)...actually putting in ornaments just anywhere, even though they're not officially indicated in the tab? I don't know: pretty risky business! Purists will raise their voices to the moon: crying for us to stick to the script, lest order and method give way to chaos and anarchy. Next thing you know, we'll all be playing single-strung archlutes!! ;-) Seriously: IMO certainly we should improvise trills, ornaments, and in fact generally dress up the music, as we see fit. Why not? Baroque composers would have encouraged us to do that. Also, (just a thought) did the baroque masters compose in tablature? (that seems absurd). Why absurd? It's easy to write music in tablature. Besides, I can't imagine that Weiss wrote his pieces out in notation and then propped them up in front of him and transcribed them note for note into tab. That seems absurd to me. And even if he did, wouldn't we then have two versions of each one of his pieces? Are there any sources for learning notation on the lute. I don't know of any, except for the various instructions on learning basso continuo, which would teach you to read lines in bass clef. DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Rene Mesangeau
Speaking of Mesangeau (at least the subject heading says we are anyway): where does one go to buy the CNRS edition that contains Mesangeau's pieces in transitional tunings? Best, David R On Jul 2, 2008, at 8:44 AM, Daniel Shoskes wrote: Reminds me of a line from Ray Nurse's LSA lecture on Dowland. He asked how we would even know whether we played a piece exactly as Dowland intended. Would Dowland appear in a puff of pink smoke and place a gold star on our lute? Conversely, if we play him badly, will he haunt us in our nightmares? Sorry Rene if our performance practice has offended you. Just be happy that over 300 years later, people are still playing your music! DS On Wednesday, July 02, 2008, at 08:06AM, Jean-Marie Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Val, you know Ren=8E means born again. Let's give him time for a second birth attempt ;-)) Jean-Marie === 02-07-2008 13:55:08 === It is the ghost of Rene Mesangeau on the list... Perhaps he doen't agree with the posts about French lute golden age... Who knows ? V ;-) -Message d'origine- De : Jean-Marie Poirier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoy=8E : mercredi 2 juillet 2008 13:53 =CB : lute Objet : [LUTE] Re: Rene Mesangeau ??? Jean-Marie === 02-07-2008 13:35:04 === = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://poirierjm.free.fr 02-07-2008 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti- virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://poirierjm.free.fr 02-07-2008 N=C3=1E|=C5=8F=A81/2=A7|=18-=F6+-=B1=8D'=C9=E8b=FF=9C+u=C7b=A2v=D0o=DBi=D8=9F0=E7=E8=1Dj=C8f=A2`ay=DB=C0=E7a?=F6`^i=F4=A2=C4=BF=A4ua|i [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
[LUTE] Re: Decisions, decisions
On Jun 30, 2008, at 11:01 PM, David Tayler wrote: Consider a dual purpose instrument. An archlute, or a 9 course or 10 course can be dual setup to play in French tuning, either with double strings (archlute) or single strings (9 or 10 course) as well as the original tuning. Sorry, I'm not following you here. Can you explain that again? Thanks, David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French Style
On Jun 28, 2008, at 8:20 PM, howard posner wrote: Professor Harold Hill wrote: all this 'quibble' about how to play music is interesting but pointless. True enough. There's nothing more pointless than musicians who want to know what they're doing. As a friend of mine once opined about his experience(s) with women: the more I learn, the less I know. So it is IMHO with music. DRastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] So...how was Cleveland?!?!?!?
So.how was Cleveland?!?!?!? David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French Style
On Jun 20, 2008, at 1:56 PM, David Tayler wrote: This is all basic stuff. why don't they know it? I'd like your take on this loaded question: why should they? DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] French Style
I'm wondering: what is it that makes up the French style of Baroque music? I don't mean particularly stile brise, notes inegall etc. Those are obvious, and to me insufficient explanations to convey the French Baroque. It seems to me there's more to it than that. Are there, for example, considerations in the French style that have to do with the cadences and general kinds of rhythms of the French language itself? What things does one need to understand / appreciate in order to make effectively rhetorical music in the French style? Anybody got any ideas on this? Best, David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Test
Just testing... [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute songs
On May 28, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Bruno Correia wrote: I'd like to ask everybody about the role of the lute when playing with a singer. Which are the aspects we should focus when doing the acompanniment? As the lute is a very soft instrument with little or no dynamics at all, certainly there must be other issues to focus on. I imagine that a good point is to give attention to the articulation in order to make the lute speak instead of sing the lines (the short sustain doesn't allow much singing anyway...). Appreciate coments! Hi Bruno, I think it's important to keep in mind the difficulty for a singer with classical training to adapt to the environment of the lute song. The idea of collaboration is not always immediately obvious. I agree completely with the idea that the two performers should sit next to each other, lute and voice as one instrument. The whole voice-teacher thing of mark down where I breathe! is all very well, but in lute songs it has to work both ways. I once had a singer wave a pencil angrily under my nose in rehearsal then turn away, as if there was someone else in the room, and say oh yes, they always think they can remember when I breathe! Okay, be that as it may, my bad; but my point is that I tried many times to suggest places where the lute parts have to breathe. Unfortunately she had difficulty in seeing my role as more than simply her accompanist. (Actually, I did mark down where she breathed, and we began to make progress after that. ;-) ) I think the most important thing is to know your part thoroughly, and be able to stop anywhere, start anywhere, and be in complete control of what you're doing. Number the bars, and make sure you and the singer agree on bar numbering. Learn the song itself as well as the lute part. Sing along with it as you practice on your own. One hallmark of classically trained singers is much sophistication in their use of language. Take advantage of that: in rehearsal, follow the singer. Go where the singer takes you. Even if they may not know much about singing to a lute, you can be sure that good singers know what they're doing when it comes to language. They have the authority in that. Despite my tongue-in-cheek remarks above, do what you can to accomodate the singer: write down when they breathe!! ;-) Hope that helps. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: more videos
Very nice, Rob! David R On May 27, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote: Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure manuscripts: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
