Re: Uh, guys? We've got a problem with KNFB Reader for I O S.

[Shen]

iOS 9.2 Beta, KNFB 2.6. I think that’s the latest.
Let me try playing around to see how I got my setting to stick.


> On Nov 1, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Huh!  Weird.  I'm not doubting you for even one second, but are you sure that 
> you have the most up to date version?  What version, speaking of which, are 
> you running of I O S, and finally, what device are you running the KNFB 
> Reader on, if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Shen" <goalb...@gmail.com>
> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 12:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Uh, guys? We've got a problem with KNFB Reader for I O S.
> 
> 
> Not for me, no problems here. Just go to Settings and change the rate to your 
> desire.
> Mine has been set to 40 percent and stays that way.
> Maybe the trick is to change it before start scanning.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not so much a setting, but when you moved that slider, it held.  You never 
>> had to move it again, unless you wanted to.  Not even if you closed the app 
>> down.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" <mk...@ucla.edu>
>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:34 PM
>> Subject: RE: Uh, guys? We've got a problem with KNFB Reader for I O S.
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I, too, am experiencing this problem.
>> 
>> The thing is, I don't see how to set a new default speech rate.  If such a 
>> mechanism exists, then we'd be in business.
>> 
>> Was it possible to set a new speech rate previously?
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Pauls
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 4:44 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Uh, guys? We've got a problem with KNFB Reader for I O S.
>> 
>> It's actually 20% and it seems to reset itself each time. I'm calling this a 
>> major bug.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 6:06 PM, Chris Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Guys, we have a problem.
>>> 
>>> I just opened up the KNFB Reader app on my IPhone 6S, and went to scan a 
>>> document.  The scan was fine, considering the content I was scanning, 
>>> however the female voice that reads the material was obviously on Ambian or 
>>> something, as she was so darn slow that it wasn't funny!  Put your Iphone 
>>> to about 10% speaking rate... there you pretty much have it.
>>> 
>>> How in the world do I adjust this?
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: Uh, guys? We've got a problem with KNFB Reader for I O S.

[Shen]

Not for me, no problems here. Just go to Settings and change the rate to your 
desire.
Mine has been set to 40 percent and stays that way.
Maybe the trick is to change it before start scanning.


> On Oct 23, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Not so much a setting, but when you moved that slider, it held.  You never 
> had to move it again, unless you wanted to.  Not even if you closed the app 
> down.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:34 PM
> Subject: RE: Uh, guys? We've got a problem with KNFB Reader for I O S.
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I, too, am experiencing this problem.
> 
> The thing is, I don't see how to set a new default speech rate.  If such a 
> mechanism exists, then we'd be in business.
> 
> Was it possible to set a new speech rate previously?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Pauls
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 4:44 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Uh, guys? We've got a problem with KNFB Reader for I O S.
> 
> It's actually 20% and it seems to reset itself each time. I'm calling this a 
> major bug.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 6:06 PM, Chris Gilland  wrote:
>> 
>> Guys, we have a problem.
>> 
>> I just opened up the KNFB Reader app on my IPhone 6S, and went to scan a 
>> document.  The scan was fine, considering the content I was scanning, 
>> however the female voice that reads the material was obviously on Ambian or 
>> something, as she was so darn slow that it wasn't funny!  Put your Iphone to 
>> about 10% speaking rate... there you pretty much have it.
>> 
>> How in the world do I adjust this?
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
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Re: vario ultra

[Shen]

It's also disappointing to find out from David Bradburn that there is no hard 
reset for the device. That seems like such an oversight on the developers' part.


Shen
goalb...@gmail.com

On May 7, 2015, at 7:34 AM, Scott Davert scottslistm...@gmail.com wrote:

 Deb.
 I am finding the same thing with the JAWS driver. I'm also finding on
 a few different units that just came in, that they aren't starting
 properly. The unit says the charge is done, but even resetting the
 unit by holding in the power button for several seconds just makes the
 display flash and the OS never boots. Very, very, disappointing!
 
 Scott
 
 On 5/5/15, Deb Lewis deblewi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have mine connected to two Iphones, an Ipad and a Mac. i've had it
 connected to the Windows machine but it has not been as satisfactory
 an experience because of the problems I've mentioned before with the
 JAWS driver. But I'm very pleased with all my apple connections.
 
 On 5/5/15, Scott Davert scottslistm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Gene.
 I'm sure others on the list may find the answers helpful. I have not
 connected mine to my Mac yet, but have been using it with my iPhone
 for the past couple of months. What questions did you have? You may
 also find my review at:
 http://www.applevis.com/reviews/braille-devices/varioultra-20-great-start-baum
 
 Scott
 
 On 5/4/15, Jean radiofore...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello All:
 Some time ago there was a discussion on this list about the Vario Ultra
 and
 how it works with Mac and I-phone.  There were a couple of people who
 are
 using this machine and I would like to be in touch with them off list as
 I
 have some questions.
 
 If you could please contact me at:
 radiofore...@gmail.com mailto:radiofore...@gmail.com
 I would be very appreciative.
 
 Jean
 
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Re: IoS 8.3, strange behavior

[Shen]

Hello,
Thank you all for responding to my email and confirming the strange behavior. 
Note that I said strange behavior, and not bug. In my opinion, it's not a 
bug, but a strange behavior.
A strange behavior which has never happened in the past.
Here's also my opinion on Apple's beta test and what not.
I agree that everything is a work in progress. I also agree that when something 
as complicated as an operating system, it is almost impossible to be completely 
bug free. However, Apple has a dedicated Accessibility team. They also have 
senior engineers who answer calls helping end users with accessibility issues. 
I've also met people, blind and not, who are private beta testers for VoiceOver 
and Zoom.
With all this in place, it seems so impossible for something as obvious as an 
incorrect status bar item to slip through without being discovered. It is 
almost impossible to test a braille display without seeing this issue.
Of course private beta testers are just that, private, certain select people, 
and who probably are not as thorough as people who work for Apple. All we can 
do is report it as a new issue and hope Apple will add it to their growing list 
of bugs to fix.
I also agree that the missing email in the inbox is still there. I thought I'm 
the only person having this issue.
I also have a new bug in Yosemite after updating to 10.10.3. I will check into 
that further before I report it to Apple.



Shen
goalb...@gmail.com

On Apr 11, 2015, at 1:24 PM, The Believer ancient.ali...@icloud.com wrote:

   The day Apple masters perfection is the day we each one of us wins the 
 Powerball.
 
   It's called work in progress. If people wait for an OS that is 100% bug 
 free, they be in for a long wait.
 
   This wee buglet that has drawn so much interest did not break anything, or 
 am I missing something? I tried it and did not experience an earth shattering 
 meltdown. If this really bothers people, let them pile on Apple Accessibility 
 with bug reports and divert their attention from much more important bugs.
 
 From The Believer. . .
   By way of the Chariots of the
 Gods cameth the Aliens who
 dwelt amongst the humans,
 and bringeth much knowledge.
 
 On 4/11/2015 1:15 PM, Robin wrote:
 I thought the advent of public BetaTesting would resolve these
 perceived bugs' and/or flaws in Apple's iOS (iOS8  Beyond)
 
 This doesn't make me more secure about forthcoming/upcoming iOS updates
 such as, iOS9
 
 I suggest keep the pressure on by detailing perceived bugs and/or
 flaws detected in iOS in the form of Constructive Criticism to Apple's
 Accessibility Department
 
 Is Apple slipping as it pertains to accessibility...only time will tell
 the true story
 At 05:06 AM 4/11/2015, you wrote:
 When companies say they have fixed bugs, I take it like a pinch of
 salt, as from beta testing in the past [not Apple], things are still
 the same. Still bugs when you write Braille with Braille displays on
 the I phone.
 
 It's our day for slagging Apple perhaps smily.
 
 
 
  On 11 Apr 2015, at 12:53 pm, Sean Murphy mhysnm1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  How am i not surprised that the email bug is not fix. Now another
 bug with something that was working.
 
  My experience is the part
 
  On 11 Apr 2015, at 8:43 pm, Kawal Gucukoglu kgli...@icloud.com
 wrote:
 
  Using an iPhone 6 Plus, there is the same bug.
 
  Another problem, which has not been fixed yet, is the focus in
 email, when you go to read a message, it suddenly disappears. This has
 been the case since the new operating system came out. So to bugs, not
 been fixed.
 
 
 
  On 11 Apr 2015, at 8:15 am, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I updated my iPhone 6 yesterday to iOS 8.3 and immediately noticed
 something a little strange. It doesn't affect how iOS or the phone
 works, but the fact that this is even possible is very strange, and a
 little funny.
 
  If you updated your phone to iOS 8.3, try the following:
  First, remember that at the top of the screen, where your status
 is, 1 of the items is your network. This tells you the name of the
 network you are using, ATT, Verizon, Virgin Mobile, etc.
  Now open 1 of the following apps: Calendar, Notes, Weather, Music,
 Photos, or Reminders. These are the apps I've tested so far.
  With 1 of these apps open, now check your network name again. Does
 VoiceOver still say the name of your network?
  Mine does not. Visually, my phone is still showing the name of my
 network. But VoiceOver says, Swipe down with 3 fingers to reveal the
 Notification Center. Swipe up with 3 fingers to reveal the Control
 Center. Double tap to scroll to top.
 
  So far, I've been able to verify this rather interesting behavior
 with 3 iPhone 6's. I'm going to try it on a 6 Plus shortly.
 
  I'd like to know if anyone else is haring VoiceOver saying the
 same thing to them.
 
  Might be another call to Apple Accessibility.
 
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IoS 8.3, strange behavior

[Shen]

I updated my iPhone 6 yesterday to iOS 8.3 and immediately noticed something a 
little strange. It doesn't affect how iOS or the phone works, but the fact that 
this is even possible is very strange, and a little funny.

If you updated your phone to iOS 8.3, try the following:
First, remember that at the top of the screen, where your status is, 1 of the 
items is your network. This tells you the name of the network you are using, 
ATT, Verizon, Virgin Mobile, etc.
Now open 1 of the following apps: Calendar, Notes, Weather, Music, Photos, or 
Reminders. These are the apps I've tested so far.
With 1 of these apps open, now check your network name again. Does VoiceOver 
still say the name of your network?
Mine does not. Visually, my phone is still showing the name of my network. But 
VoiceOver says, Swipe down with 3 fingers to reveal the Notification Center. 
Swipe up with 3 fingers to reveal the Control Center. Double tap to scroll to 
top.

So far, I've been able to verify this rather interesting behavior with 3 iPhone 
6's. I'm going to try it on a 6 Plus shortly.

I'd like to know if anyone else is haring VoiceOver saying the same thing to 
them.

Might be another call to Apple Accessibility.

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magnification apps on iOS

[Shen]

Hello,
I am looking for suggestions for any iOS apps that has magnification
functions for a low vision user. It must be live, like a CCTV or handheld
magnifier, and not on a delay.
I am also interested in knowing what people think of them. If you use it,
what do you like and not like about it.
You are welcome to email me directly as well if you'd like.
goalb...@gmail.com

Thank you.

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Fleksy

[Shen]

Is anyone having issues with Fleksy after updating their device to iOS7? 
While typing, my phone believes there is no activity happening. So auto lock 
kicks in. 
The same problem happens if you open camera from the lock screen. 

Shen
goalb...@gmail.com

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RE: Mavericks is free.

[Shen]

Yep, we can all laugh.
And, it's true. I'm watching the Apple event live right now and they made
the announcement about 20 minutes ago.
It's not there yet because the event is not over. Give it a little time. It
will be in the App Store for sure today.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 10:39 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mavericks is free.

Uh, I google and find nothing about this, nor is it in the app store. Am I
supposed to laugh now? Hahahaha.

Thanks, (I think) :)
Teresa

Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P.
Feynman

On Oct 22, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello list,
 
 I thought you would all like to know Mavericks is free, and available
today.  Even if your running an older OS like Snow Leopard.
 
 hth
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rica...@appletothecore.info
 Twitter:@apple2thecore
 www.appletothecore.info
 
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Re: New bug with vO and the podcast app on IOS

[Shen]

Replying to your email late.
Yes, I have been having the exact same issue on my iPhone 5.
On my wife's iPhone 4S, she is not having the same issue, but she is having the 
app crash consistently. The phone's diagnostics is full of Podcast app crash 
reports.
It's ridiculous.
I would recommend going to another podcast app, like iCatcher or Downcast. I 
use iCatcher and find it really good.
If something doesn't work, the developer usually responds to my email within 
the same day.

On Aug 23, 2013, at 8:16 PM, Lisette Wesseling lisettewessel...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 Hi all,
 Has anybody else noticed a new bug with the Apple podcast app on ios? Since 
 the update of this week, when I go to play a podcast, the phone freezes and 
 nothing plays. Eventually, I can tripple click home VO off and on again and 
 everything returns to normal. I can then play the podcast as normal  I'm 
 getting this consistently now so wonder if anybody else is experiencing this. 
 I'm using an iPhone 5. 
 
 Lisette
 
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GPS app suggestion

[Shen]

Hi everyone, 
My wife and I are going to Italy in September for our vacation. 
What GPS apps would you recommend that will work well when we are there? We 
will have our iPhones with us. 
Any recommendations are appreciated. 

Shen
goalb...@gmail.com

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Voyager 70 display

[Shen]

Hi everyone,
Wondering if anyone has any experience with the Voyager 70 display. I know the 
44 model is a supported display, but somehow the 70 is not. When I connected 
the USB cable to my Mac, VoiceOver does not recognize it.
I'd appreciate it if anyone might have any suggestions to get this Voyager 70 
to work with VoiceOver. I have a feeling I'm out of luck, but thought I ask.
Thanks.

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Re: iPhone Manual Question

[Shen]

Hi there.
The Item Chooser is two-finger triple tap.
I work for the San Francisco LightHouse and am sorry to inform you, Apple did 
not request iOS6 to be transcribed in Braille. Not sure why, but guessing that 
perhaps iOS 5 is similar enough to 6.


On Apr 16, 2013, at 4:01 AM, Eugenia Firth gigifi...@me.com wrote:

 Hi guys
 I just downloaded the iPhone User Guide which is for iOS 5. I got it in brf 
 format which was transcribed by the San Francisco Lighthouse. Does anyone 
 know if there is the same thing out yet for iOS 6? I was looking for the 
 gesture for calling up the item chooser. I guess that's an iOS 6 thing 
 because I couldn't find it in the iOS 5 book. I know how to call up the item 
 chooser with a keyboard. I accidentally called it up this morning with a 
 gesture, but I have no idea how I did it since that's not what I was doing at 
 the time. What is the gesture for calling up the item chooser on the iPhone? 
 
 Regards,
 Gigi
 
 
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Re: Fleksy is now free

[Shen]

://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
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Re: please can some one recommend an accessible alternative to iTunes that will allow me to mannege my current iTunes libary and iPod?

[Shen]

I agree. I don't think it's a bad question at all.
Also, many people get accessibility confused with personal choice. If my 
personal choice is something that is not Apple, it doesn't mean I'm a hater. 
It's a personal choice.
I too am not very happy with iTunes. This has been the case from day one.
I understand that iTunes is suppose to make it easy to organize your library. I 
agree, if the library is 5000 songs.
But if I just want to add 1 song to my iPhone, I have to go through the lengthy 
process of adding it to iTunes, then sync it with my iPhone, and then wait 5 
minutes while iTunes checks everything else.
But for the moment, I will continue using it until something better comes along.




On Dec 11, 2012, at 4:29 PM, Pete Nalda lpna...@gmail.com wrote:

 I don't think this question was all that bad.  I've lost the ability to 
 manually sync my iPhone to iTunes 11. So, at this rate, I may have to look 
 for an alternative as well.  Also, I'm becoming more disenfranchised with the 
 Apple Paradigm lately as well.  I want more of my music library on my iPhone 
 4, and the iPhone 5 is not on any prepaid carrier, and the sim card is a 
 different size, so I can't even buy an unlocked 5 and put it on my carrier.  
 This doesn't mean I hate Apple myself, only that I'm wondering about the way 
 things are headed.  Also, they only give you the option to switch iTunes to 
 classic mode at installation, so there's no switching once you've chosen 
 unless you do some sort of hack.  Apple isn't always right in its' decision 
 making.  Don't even get me started on the Maps ordeal on iOS.
 
 On Dec 11, 2012, at 3:31 PM, Shawn Krasniuk bigbigshawn@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hmmm, sounds like we have another Apple hater on our hands. Good luck with 
 hoping for Android to improve accessibility. As for the guy that had an 
 issue with using Itunes with his iPod, if you find anything else besides 
 Itunes, I'd love to hear it, because like it or not, we're stuck with what 
 we got. Also you can use Itunes on your iPhone or iPod and purchase stuff 
 there too if you have trouble with the Mac version.
 
 Shawn
 Sent from my white Mac Book
 
 
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 Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates)
 Louie P. Pete Nalda
 http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda
 http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
 Twitter @lpnalda
 
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Re: iTunes Match

[Shen]

Even if you have iTunes Match, you are not forced to stream music over the 
internet.
You can have iTunes Match turned on in iTunes in your computer, but have them 
turned off in your devices. If they are turned off in your devices, you will 
still sync them from your iTunes just like you normally do.
The advantage of having iTunes Match in iTunes is that any songs you add to 
your library, iTunes will check and see if it has a higher quality version 
available. If it is available, you can remove your copy and download the higher 
quality version from the iTunes Store.
Or you can still keep your version if you choose to.

On Dec 2, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com wrote:

 You can, especially if you have an iPod and want to listen somewhere you 
 don't have wifi. The big thing with Match is that it upgrades all your songs 
 to the highest-quality version it can, and it makes them available on all 
 your devices with no syncing necessary. Nothing says you still can't sync to 
 have local copies stored, but you can also download artists or albums (but 
 not individual songs) through the service right to your device.
 On Dec 1, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Stacey Robinson stacey...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 
 Oh, ok.
 So if you use itunes match you don't put music on your device? 
 On Dec 1, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Daniel Miller wrote:
 
 Let me correct a few things. If you're running iOS 6 or later, the songs
 aren't downloaded, but streamed. However, there's currently no way to
 download individual tracks, only albums or playlists.
 Second, the limit for non-iTunes store tracks is 25000, which can't be
 changed.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave
 Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:54 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: iTunes Match
 
 Stacy,
 
 Essentially, iTunes Match allows you to upload your music to the cloud and
 have access to it via the cloud.
 
 When you decide to listen to a song, it's downloaded to your device and
 played.
 
 The match part of it is that when you upload your lib, iTunes Match will
 find the best recording of that particular song and artist and give you
 access to it.
 
 It's an annual subscription, and I think the first $24.99 covers 25000
 songs.
 
 Look here for more information.
 
 http://www.apple.com/itunes/itunes-match/
 
 Dave
 
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 Have a great day,
 Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
 mehg...@gmail.com
 
 
 
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suggestion for YouTube app for iPad?

[Shen]

So I recently discovered the YouTube app from Google is for iPhones and iPods, 
but not iPads. Of course I can still install it, but it would look and feel 
strange.
Anyone has any suggestions for an accessible 3rd-party app to access YouTube? I 
tried Jasmine, not even close. I am now trying McTube, but it has a few 
problems.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

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VoiceOver behaviors in Safari

[Shen]

Hi everyone,
I recently decided to take on the task of erasing my hard drive and install a 
clean copy of Mountain Lion. Even though it had been installed over Lion, the 
performance was not bad. But there were just the few little things that made 
enough of a difference to make me wonder. So I decided to install it.
Now that I have been using it for a few weeks, I have noticed a very specific 
behavior with VoiceOver and especially when it comes to Safari.
A couple of weeks ago on this list, people were saying how VoiceOver doesn't 
automatically interact with the HTML content in Safari. I have discovered there 
are 2 causes for this. One reason is that the page has not completely loaded. 
This can happen a lot because Safari is considered one of the slowest browsers. 
For some reason, it takes much longer to load a page than other browsers. If 
VoiceOver detects that it is not 100% done loading the page, it will not 
automatically interact wit the html content.
The other reason has to do with how VoiceOver works with Safari. I have 
discovered that about 50% of the time, VoiceOver will interact with the html 
content automatically when the page is finished loading, and the other 50% of 
the time, it doesn't. The 50% of the time it doesn't, a few things will happen. 
It will not automatically interact with the html content, it will not announce 
the percentage while the page is loading, and if you return to a previous page, 
it will likely not remember the last position.
I also discovered that by toggling VoiceOver off the on, this issue will go 
away. It does get a little annoying that 50% of the time you browse the 
internet, VoiceOver is not behaving as expected and you will need to toggle 
VoiceOver to fix it.
Overall, it's still not bad compare to Lion and Snow Leopard. There was a 
version of Lion that when VoiceOver is not working correctly in Safari, it 
cannot locate any headings. So I feel that it has improved, but still has ways 
to go.

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Re: Please help with extracting audio from AVI file

[Shen]

Hi,
Just saw your post. This is what you need.
It's a QuickTime plugin that will allow your QuickTime player to play avi files.
There is also an option in QuickTime player to export as audio only.
Enjoy.
http://perian.org

On Nov 5, 2012, at 5:25 PM, Ioana Gandrabur igandra...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 I have a .avi file and would like to just extract the audio part.
 I tried opening it in Amadeus light or in garage band and get an error that 
 quicktime cannot play it. VLC can and I found some kind of export setting 
 there but don't quite understand how it works. Even if I did though I am not 
 sure what encoding settings to choose to be able to extract audio.
 
 Thanks for your help.
 
 
 Ioana
 
 Please check out my cd on www.ioanagandrabur.com on iTunes and most online 
 stores.
 
 
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Re: Voiceover Jumping Around in Contacts on iPhone 3GS

[Shen]

Go to Settings, then Mail, Contacts and Calendar.
There are 2 options to look for. One is sort contacts by, this is sorting your 
contacts alphabetically by either first or last name.
The other is display by. You can choose to have your contacts displayed by 
first name first or last name first.
My guess is you have sort by last name, and display by first name.

On Nov 5, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I just wondered if anyone else noticed VoiceOver jumping around in the 
 contact on the iPhone?  It started happening the other day, and after 
 updating to IOS 6 it still seems to happen.  The letter before each group of 
 contacts beginning with that name will jump.  For example, it might say J, 
 then give a namelike Centurylink, for example.  I think it sorts the names by 
 looking at the last name, even though it lists them first name/last name, 
 since under the Y's it has names of people starting with both B and S with 
 the last names starting with Y.  It's confusing and doesn't make much sense 
 to me.  I'm not sure what I might have done to cause this random behavior.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Harry
 
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Re: Blind Mice Mart Movie Vault

[Shen]

Hi,
This is what I do with these movie files. First, make sure they are mp3 files. 
Most of them are, but I think they used to give ogg files.
Add these mp3 files to your iTunes library. They will appear under your Music 
category.
You might want to change the ID3 tags such as artist and album to make them 
easier to find in your iPhone.
This is all you really need to do. But I take an extra step.
I change the category from Music to Audiobooks. You can do this by opening the 
file info dialogue on 1 or more selected files, and going to the Options tab. 
Change the category to Audiobooks and then change the remember playback 
position to Yes.
Give iTunes a few seconds to process. Now your movies will appear in the Books 
category of your iTunes library.
I recommend changing the artist and/or album fields so they will be grouped 
together in your iPhone.
I like to group them into the same artist of blind mice movie and using the 
movie title as the album. This will make all the movies appear as separate 
books with the same author.
hth


On Oct 31, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Brian Fischler blindga...@gmail.com wrote:

 I will have to check if they are appearing in itunes as a music file,
 they are appearing in my itunes recently added folder so I would
 assume so. Strange as a couple of them appear on my Iphone through
 IMatch but they are all listed as dim and will not play. I have
 clicked add to Imatch through Itunes on the computer but they don't
 transfer, I have tried transferring to aac as well. If anyone has had
 any luck downloading from Blind Mice Mart and then getting the file
 transferred to their Iphone please do let us know. Thanks
 
 On Oct 31, 4:42 pm, Brian Fischler blindga...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hey all,
 
 Ok, so I finally found the Blind Mice Mart movie vault, but when I go
 to download a movie, it takes me to another website saying pay for
 your downloads. Is this whole Blind Mice Mart movie vault just a scam
 for the Blind Mice Mart to sell products? Has anyone successfully been
 able to download a movie from Blind Mice Mart? I don't have a prblem
 paying for movies with described video, but I have yet to find Amazon,
 Itunes, or Netflix making that content available to us. Would love to
 hear what I am doing wrong on mice mart if that is the case. Thanks
 
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Re: New Google Groups Interface

[Shen]

First, make sure you are signed into Google.
Then copy and paste the following URL:
http://groups.google.com/?noredirect=true

This will give you the classic Googlegroups view. I don't know how long this 
will be available.
On Oct 21, 2012, at 11:24 AM, Emilio Hernandez emilio.s.hernan...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 Hello everyone,
 
 The new google groups interface on the web is cumbersome to navigate in my 
 opinion.
 I have tried clicking the Revert to the old google groups link, and 
 clicking the link to give a suggestion, but after taking me to the salutation 
 page where the site indicates it appreciates my response, I cannot get to the 
 old google groups interface.
 Clicking the skip to content link does nothing, and I have found myself 
 going in circles.
 What alternatives do others have on how to expeditiously reply to posts on 
 the Macvisionaries list?
 
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Re: Changing the order messages are read

[Shen]

Hi,
There are 2 ways of doing this. The first is the easier way.
1. Use classic view in Mail. Your list of messages will be in a table. Interact 
with the table and move to the subject column. As you move up or down the 
table, only the subject is read. This may be enough for you.But if you do want 
the subject column moved, here is how I did it.
2. There may be other ways of organizing columns.But I was able to do this very 
easily with no problems. This is assuming you have at least Mountain Lion, 
10.8. Go to the column header section by pressing VO-Shift-Backslash. When you 
are in the column header,you would move left or right to the various columns. 
Go to the column you want to move. Press VO-Comma to select the item for drag 
and drop. Next, go to the column to the right of where you want your column 
moved to. For example, if you want the subject column to the left of the from 
column, go to the from column. Last, press VO-Shift-Comma to place the drag 
item to the left of your VoiceOver focus.

I was able to place the subject column to the left of the from column with very 
little problems.
No sighted help needed.
Good luck.



On Oct 16, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Agent086b agent0...@bigpond.com wrote:

 Thanks, another job for my sited wife.
 Max.
 On 17/10/2012, at 8:55 AM, Bill Holton bill32...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi.
 If you go into classic view this is possible.  The mail grid becomes a
 table.  I got my sighted wife to drag the columns into my preferred order,
 but I'm guessing with a bit of work it could be done with voiceover.
 
 
 
 BILL HOLTON
 Email:   b...@bholton.com
 Direct:  386-624-6309
 Home Office: 1520 Loughton ST
  DeLand, FL  32720
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Agent086b
 Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:43 PM
 To: Mac List
 Subject: Changing the order messages are read
 
 Hello, I asked this question  a week or so ago. I am writing encase I used
 the reply.
 I would like to when moving down a list of messages have the subject read
 before the sender. Is it possible to change the order of these headings?
 Thanks for any help.
 Max
 
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Re: Please teach me how to... legally!... copy a DVD

[Shen]

I'm a bit surprised the moderator of the list has not piped up yet.
The simple act of copying in itself makes it illegal. There is no such thing as 
making a legal copy. That's why they have copy encryption, to prevent people 
from making copies.
Having said that, there are lots of ways of getting around the copy encryption 
and grab the content of the dvd into your hard drive. In order to do that, 
again, you will have to strip out the copy encryption. So when you put it back 
onto a blank disc, it will not contain copy encryption. At that point, by 
definition, is no longer a copy of your original disc.
Also, most commercial dvds use dual layer discs, which means it will most 
likely be more than 4.7GB. You can purchase dual layer blank discs. But if you 
want to fit the contents on a single layer,you will need to compress the 
content to fit.
A simple Google search should go a long way in helping you find a software that 
suit your need.
Good luck.






On Oct 14, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 OK, I have a DVD which I purchased completely legally, don't worry, and would 
 like to make my one legal backup  copy of the movie.  So, two things:
 
 1.  I don't want just the audio only.  I'm wanting an exact duplication of 
 the DVD.
 
 2.  I can't use Simplyburns or something of the like, as the dvd is 
 incripted.  I need something that will strip the copy protection, and 
 d-scramble the incription.  I know that DVD Remaster can do some of this, and 
 yes, I do have a copy of it, but I never have been able to get my head around 
 that thing.  I don't know why, I just have never been able to figure it out.  
 I'd prefer a sollution that would let me strip, and burn all within the same 
 app, but if that isn't feezible then just tell me what I need to get, and 
 talk me through, step by step what to do to make this happen.
 
 I have a white 13 inch stocked mid 2010 pollicarbon macbook running 10.8.2 
 Mountain Lion.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Chris.
 
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MacBook Pro changing timezones

[Shen]

Hi,
I just tried this week and found that VoiceOver is unable to interact with the 
world map in the timezones tab under System Preferences. Because I have a 
MacBook Pro, I don't have location services. So when I tried changing the 
timezone, VoiceOver tells me no visible title to interact.
I emailed accessibility at Apple and they insisted VoiceOver is able to 
interact and change the timezone.
So I'm wondering if anyone else with the latest Mountain Lion updates is able 
to interact with the world map and change the timezone? Because I cannot for 
some reason.
Thanks

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Re: MacBook Pro changing timezones

[Shen]

Thank you. Your explanation makes perfect sense.
Too bad Apple Accessibility isn't as clear with their emails.
The handful of times I contacted Apple Accessibility in the past, I have not 
been impressed with the quality of their responses. Not to mention, whoever is 
writing these emails don't even bother spellchecking. Hope other people have 
better luck than I do.
I usually get more helpful answers on this list than Apple's Accessibility 
department.


On Oct 7, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Cheryl Homiak cahom...@gmail.com wrote:

 you don't have  to interact with the map at all. There's a time zone button 
 to the right of the map and a combo box for nearest city. 
  At any rate, if you do a down arrow on the combo box and then hit enter on 
 the city you want, you can change the city. In fact, once you do the down 
 arrow and vo says interacting with list, one item selected, you can start 
 typing the name of your city and it will either give you choices accordingly 
 or you can finish typing. Once you hit enter after choosing or typing the 
 city you want, stop interacting with vokeys-shift up arrow. So yes, 
 accessibility is right about this even though they didn't give you specific 
 instructions.
 
  
  
 -- 
 Cheryl
 
 May the words of my mouth
 and the meditation of my heart
 be acceptable to You, Lord,
 my rock and my Redeemer.
 (Psalm 19:14 HCSB)
 
 
 
 On Oct 7, 2012, at 9:01 AM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 I just tried this week and found that VoiceOver is unable to interact with 
 the world map in the timezones tab under System Preferences. Because I have 
 a MacBook Pro, I don't have location services. So when I tried changing the 
 timezone, VoiceOver tells me no visible title to interact.
 I emailed accessibility at Apple and they insisted VoiceOver is able to 
 interact and change the timezone.
 So I'm wondering if anyone else with the latest Mountain Lion updates is 
 able to interact with the world map and change the timezone? Because I 
 cannot for some reason.
 Thanks
 
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Re: problems playing OGG files with VLC

[Shen]

Hi,
Most likely not. It's due to a decoding problem. You might try updating VLC to 
the latest version and see if the problem goes away. I'm playing ogg files in 
using VLC and have no problems.
The VLC version I have is 2.0.3 64-bit. Interesting it says 64-bit, but I have 
a 32-bit Mac.
Anyways, try that. Also, try encoding your files using constant nitrate instead 
of variable and see if that works.

On Sep 29, 2012, at 3:07 AM, Mark Baxter markbaxte...@gmail.com wrote:

 When I try to step forward or backward through an OGG file in VLC, my place 
 in the file jumps randomly.  Is there a way to fix this?
 Thanks.
 
 
 • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
 • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
 • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
 • My home page:
 • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
 
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Re: American HQ voice not working

[Shen]

Hi,
When you said even though it is not enabled, do you actually have the checkbox 
under VoiceOver that says use compact voice?
Any iOS device needs to connect to iTunes once in order to get the high quality 
voice. Not sure why that is. But you did say you reset your phone. So I would 
connect it to iTunes, probably need to perform a sync. After that, you will not 
have the high quality voice right away, but it will appear shortly.
Now if you do have the checkbox and it is unchecked, and you still don't have 
the high quality voice, you might need to do a restore or perhaps another reset.
Generally, an iPhone with factory default settings do not have the use compact 
voice checkbox. Only after performing a sync with iTunes, the checkbox will 
appear.
I remember doing this with a brand new iPad. After sync, the high quality voice 
did not appear. I left it and went to sleep. Some time during the night, it 
appeared.



On Sep 1, 2012, at 9:09 AM, Rahul Bajaj rahul.bajaj1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 I have a query.
 I had to reset my iPhone due to some reason and since then, I haven't
 been able to get the American HQ voice to work.
 I can only hear the compact voice even though it is not enabled.
 I have been facing this issue for quite a lot of days now.
 What should I do?
 
 Cheers,
 Rahul
 
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FaceTime on the Mac

[Shen]

Hi,
Ever since I installed Mountain Lion, I am having a lot of trouble adding and 
removing favorites in FaceTime.
Has anyone been successful removing contacts from favorites in FaceTime? There 
is an Edit button, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't make any difference. I 
still cannot remove from the favorites list.
Any help is appreciated.

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Re: Fleksy

[Shen]

 for texting, emails, tweets,
 or anything else in any other app.
 
 It does save a lot of time once you get used to it. My wife and I are
 both now using it, and already our efficiency is probably a good 7-10
 times faster.
 
 I don't even try to get the right letter, just wild guesses, and it 
 gets
 it right 90% of the time.
 
 Brandon
 On Aug 18, 2012, at 12:55 PM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:
 
 Hmm, interesting.  What's the difference between the free and paid
 versions?  I realize that there may be a learning curve, bus so far it
 doesn't seem to me that this app saves any time at all.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Aug 18, 2012, at 10:08 AM, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 you download the free version and the sale price is an in app
 purchase.
 
 hth
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rica...@appletothecore.info
 Twitter:@apple2thecore
 www.appletothecore.info
 
 On Aug 18, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:
 
 Interesting, I didn't see an option other than the free version.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Aug 18, 2012, at 9:39 AM, Brandon Olivares
 programmer2...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 No, the free version is only for testing. It's $4.99 for the full
 version.
 
 I just got it, and love it. I just wish there were an easier way to
 reply to text messages or emails with it.
 
 Brandon
 On Aug 18, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com
 wrote:
 
 I hate to say this, but today it's free!  Run, do not walk!
 Donna
 On Aug 17, 2012, at 9:52 PM, Christina C. 
 blindmaclo...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 I just purchased it for $4.99.  Yay!  At least, that' what I
 think.  When I went through the in app purchase process it asked
 me if I was sure I wanted to buy it for $4.99.  I was passing 
 this
 along in case someone one was wondering if it  is still $4.99
 through the in app purchase.
 Sent from Christina's iMac :)
 
 On Aug 17, 2012, at 7:26 PM, Tammy wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Oh I forgot about that.  I haven't seen the app since I bought 
 it
 awhile back.  Nice they have a demo now.  It's a great app!
 
 Tammy
 
 -Original Message- From: Taylor Scott
 Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 7:09 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: Fleksy
 
 Yes, you can now test the app for free, and if you want the full
 version it is now an in app purchase.
 
 
 On 8/17/12, wayne coles wayne...@gmail.com wrote:
 HELLO I JUST DID A SEARCH FOR FLESKY AND IT CAME UP FREE SO
 COULD THIS BE RIGHT
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shen
 Sent: 17 August 2012 22:49
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Fleksy
 
 FYI,
 Fleksy is in the App Store for $4.99. Don't know how long this
 will last.
 
 
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exporting Contacts

[Shen]

Hi,
When you export your contacts on the Mac, by default, it creates 1 vcf file 
with all of your contacts. If you want to create 1 vcf file for each contact, 
you must hold down the option key while dragging and dropping.
It's already been determined that the VoiceOver drag and drop does not work. It 
just says item no longer visible.
But I can do this by holding down the mouse by 
control-option-command-shift-space bar. The problem is the option key is 
already pressed and it still creates 1 vcd file.
Anyone know how to do this with VoiceOver?
Thanks.

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App Store on the iPhone

[Shen]

Hi everyone,
Wonder if anyone is having this issue on your iPhone.
1. Opne the App Store, search for an app, anything will do.
2. Open the app to get more info. Tap on the tell a friend link.
3. An email will be open. Tap on add contacts.
4. You will be in Contacts, but VoiceOver will not speak any of your
contacts. At least this is happening with me.
Anyone else having the same issue?


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Fleksy

[Shen]

FYI,
Fleksy is in the App Store for $4.99. Don't know how long this will last.


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VoiceOver Getting Started for Mountain Lion

[Shen]

Hi everyone,
Just want to share that the VoiceOver download page has now been updated
with the VoiceOver Getting Started guide for Mountain Lion. You can download
a zip archive containing brf files, or you can purchase a hardcopy in
Braille from the LightHouse for the Blind in San Francisco.
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/downloads.html

Happy reading!

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creating a boot USB drive

[Shen]

Hi everyone,
I attempted to create a bootable USB drive with the Mountain Lion disk
image. I have a 16gb USB drive. I was using Disk Utilities.
I started the restore, Disk Utilities began writing blocks, and after about
10 minutes, started the verification process. Somewhere after that, it quit
and gave me a Restore failure, invalid argument message.
Anyone know what's going on? The invalid argument is not very informative.


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RE: VoiceOver Getting Started for Mountain Lion

[Shen]

That's correct. The text of the heading is the same. And  if you click on
the link for the brf zip file, you will see that the file name is
voiceOver_Mountain_Lion.zip.
And if you click on the link to buy the hardcopy, it redirects you to the
LightHouse page for Mountain Lion.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Kriegler
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:42 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: VoiceOver Getting Started for Mountain Lion

I checked that page, and it doesn't appear that the page has been updated
for Mountain Lion yet.  I see reference to Getting Started with OS 10, which
is what I saw a couple of weeks ago.

Les
On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 Just want to share that the VoiceOver download page has now been 
 updated with the VoiceOver Getting Started guide for Mountain Lion. 
 You can download a zip archive containing brf files, or you can 
 purchase a hardcopy in Braille from the LightHouse for the Blind in San
Francisco.
 http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/downloads.html
 
 Happy reading!
 
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RE: VO behaving weird on iPhone... How to solve that?

[Shen]

Try closing apps in the app switcher.
I've found that if there are too many apps running in the background, it can
slow down VoiceOver.
I make it a habit of clearing out my apps that I don't use.
Restarting your phone is not much of a solution because the apps remain in
the app switcher. To restart your phone more effectively, close all the apps
in the app switcher, then restart it.


 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Hole
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 1:23 PM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: VO behaving weird on iPhone... How to solve that?

Hi folks.

Sometimes after long use, VoiceOver is behaving weird on my iPhone.
When reading long sentences, VO stops reading, and I can't get it to read
everything.
For example on Twitter or on Facebook where there can be a bit longer posts,
VO reads the first part, and I can't get it to read the whole thing.
If I flick to the right, it reads the next.

I've only found two ways to solve this:
1. After flicking through lots of Facebook posts in the newsfeed or Twitter
messages, VO stops speaking.
Then I have to lock the phone, and wait a few minutes.
After that, VO works as it should.
2. Reboot the phone.

Anyone here who have a more efficient solution to this?

Thanks in advance.
-David

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RE: weird Skype issue

[Shen]

Hi Donna,
The only thing that comes to mind immediately is that perhaps the hotkey you
have assigned to unmute VoiceOver is also a hotkey for a Skype function and
that somehow it is causing a conflict.
What hotkey do you have assigned to unmute VoiceOver? I will try it on my
Skype and see what happens.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:30 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: weird Skype issue

Hi all,

I've been having a weird Skype issue for a long time now, so thought I'd
write to see if any of you know what might be going on.

I always mute speech on my Mac when on a Skype call.  I do this using a
keyboard command that I created.  Occasionally, when I end a call, I press
the command to turn speech back on, I hear VO say speech unmuted, but then
I have no speech.  Nothing I do seems to matter.  I've issued the command
again, I've turned VO on and off, but the only way I can get speech back is
to force shut down the computer.  Has anyone else experienced this?  Anyone
know what to do about it?
Thanks,
Donna

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RE: weird Skype issue

[Shen]

Hi Donna,
OK, when I get home from work, I'll set up the hotkey and see what happens.
Have you thought about using the double-tap with three fingers method of
muting and unmuting speech?



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 2:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: weird Skype issue

Hi Shen,

the key I have assigned is Left-Option-V.  To my knowledge this isn't a
Skype hotkey, but I'd appreciate it if you could try it out and let me know.
I'll also try changing the hotkey and see if the problem goes away.

thanks again for the help.
Best,
Donna
On Aug 1, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Donna,
 The only thing that comes to mind immediately is that perhaps the hotkey
you
 have assigned to unmute VoiceOver is also a hotkey for a Skype function
and
 that somehow it is causing a conflict.
 What hotkey do you have assigned to unmute VoiceOver? I will try it on my
 Skype and see what happens.
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
 Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:30 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: weird Skype issue
 
 Hi all,
 
 I've been having a weird Skype issue for a long time now, so thought I'd
 write to see if any of you know what might be going on.
 
 I always mute speech on my Mac when on a Skype call.  I do this using a
 keyboard command that I created.  Occasionally, when I end a call, I press
 the command to turn speech back on, I hear VO say speech unmuted, but
then
 I have no speech.  Nothing I do seems to matter.  I've issued the command
 again, I've turned VO on and off, but the only way I can get speech back
is
 to force shut down the computer.  Has anyone else experienced this?
Anyone
 know what to do about it?
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
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Re: weird Skype issue

[Shen]

Hi Donna,
Just tested out the hotkey for muting and unmuting VoiceOver with Skype. I 
don't have the newest version, I have 5.3.
I didn't have any problems losing speech after a call and unmuting my speech. I 
checked to see if Option-V might be a Skype function but it didn't do anything.
Sorry about that.
Interestingly, in the keyboard commanders, there is a mute speech toggle and a 
mute VoiceOver toggle. Don't know what the difference is.


On Aug 1, 2012, at 6:49 PM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:


 Hi Shen,
 
 Thanks for trying it out.  As for the three finger double-tap, I don't have 
 the trackpad turned on.  I found that my wrist kept moving over it and I kept 
 accidentally performing gestures while I was typing.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Aug 1, 2012, at 5:50 PM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Donna,
 OK, when I get home from work, I'll set up the hotkey and see what happens.
 Have you thought about using the double-tap with three fingers method of
 muting and unmuting speech?
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
 Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 2:49 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: weird Skype issue
 
 Hi Shen,
 
 the key I have assigned is Left-Option-V.  To my knowledge this isn't a
 Skype hotkey, but I'd appreciate it if you could try it out and let me know.
 I'll also try changing the hotkey and see if the problem goes away.
 
 thanks again for the help.
 Best,
 Donna
 On Aug 1, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Donna,
 The only thing that comes to mind immediately is that perhaps the hotkey
 you
 have assigned to unmute VoiceOver is also a hotkey for a Skype function
 and
 that somehow it is causing a conflict.
 What hotkey do you have assigned to unmute VoiceOver? I will try it on my
 Skype and see what happens.
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
 Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:30 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: weird Skype issue
 
 Hi all,
 
 I've been having a weird Skype issue for a long time now, so thought I'd
 write to see if any of you know what might be going on.
 
 I always mute speech on my Mac when on a Skype call.  I do this using a
 keyboard command that I created.  Occasionally, when I end a call, I press
 the command to turn speech back on, I hear VO say speech unmuted, but
 then
 I have no speech.  Nothing I do seems to matter.  I've issued the command
 again, I've turned VO on and off, but the only way I can get speech back
 is
 to force shut down the computer.  Has anyone else experienced this?
 Anyone
 know what to do about it?
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
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Re: mountain lion issues:

[Shen]

Hi,
To setup Twitter, o to System Preferences and open Mail, Contacts and Calendars.
Click Add, and in the New Account Types table, select Twitter.

On Aug 1, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Chenelle Hancock filmchenelle1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 I  just installed mountain lion  earlier this morning  at around 4:30  am. I 
 t took me about 2/2  hours  from downloading  until   m.l.  had  downloaded 
 and installed onto my mackbook pro.
 however,  my question  is, after downloading m.l.  onto the mack?  Where  do 
 you go to  set up your twitter account? or do you  just have to download it 
 to your  mack in order to  set up the  short cut keystroke commands? i have 
 not tried going into the  the system preferences application  and then into  
 the  dictation  application to set up my  dictation v.o. ket stroke commands. 
 I  also purchased the flexy application for my i phone  earlier this morning 
 as well  and that works  terrifically.
 thanks  so much for your help i most greatly appreciate it.
 sincerely chenelle
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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RE: userguide vor voiceover in 10.8, help pls!

[Shen]

Hi everyone,
Just want to clarify a few things. The VoiceOver Getting Started guide in
braille from the LightHouse in San Francisco is getting close to being
published. The LightHouse is finalizing the licensing agreement with Apple
and once that's done, you will find the new Mountain Lion link for getting
the braille and links to download the brf files.
As far as the content goes, here are the details.
There are 2 braille guides, 1 is the VoiceOver Getting Started for Mac OS X,
and the other is the iPhone Getting Started for iOS devices.
For the Mac OS X guide, it is written specifically for VoiceOver. It
contains VoiceOver basics, a comprehensive list of all the keyboard
commands, and tips and tricks on using several of the native apps that come
with the Mac.
For the iOS guide, it is the same as the downloadable pdf guide. It is the
standard getting started guide with only 1 chapter at the end dedicated for
VoiceOver.
Both guides are available in braille from the LightHouse and the brf files
are downloadable.
And to be clear, the guide that will be published soon is for Mountain Lion.
As far as I know, the iOS guide is only for version 5, there is no estimated
date for iOS 6.

 



From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eugenia Firth
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 7:58 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: userguide vor voiceover in 10.8, help pls!


Hello Esther 
Thanks for the information on the voiceover user guide for Mountain lion. I
have however, an additional question. Last year, I downloaded a brf file
from the Apple website for voiceover under snow Leopard. I also bought the 2
volume set from the San Francisco Lighthouse, and back then there was a link
on the Apple web site to go there to do it. 
I have a blind friend who has decided to switch to a Mac. Actually, she is
going to do something that would be difficult under windows. A sighted
friend of hers is going to get her Mac first, and my friend is going to
learn voice over on it. She wants to read the manual ahead of time, so do
you know if there is another link for getting a DRF file for this? 


Eugenia Firth
gigifi...@sbcglobal.net




On Jul 28, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Esther mori...@mac-access.net wrote:


Hi William,

I'm adapting a post made yesterday on the mac-access list to give
you a link to the URL for the VoiceOver Getting Started Guide for Mountain
Lion (OS X 10.8) that you want. I assume you would prefer a version in
Dutch:

http://help.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/10.8/Dutch.lproj/index.html

For English speakers, the link to the VoiceOver Getting Started
Guide for Mountain Lion is:
http://help.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/10.8/index.html

HTH.  Cheers,

Esther

On Jul 28, 2012, at 5:46 AM, William Windels wrote:



Hello all,
the quick start gives just some general commands and
concepts about voiceover  and I know most of them very well since I work for
4 years with the mac.

ON the bottom of my message, you could find a link of the
userguide  for voiceover in 10.6.
That's what I am looking for for 10.8 but it will perhaps
become later!

Kind regards,
William Windels

http://www.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/
Op 28-jul.-2012, om 16:56 heeft Daniel Miller
miller...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven:



That's what he's talking about, the quickstart guide
on that menu. He wants
a more comprehensive guide, apparently, which there
has never been, seeing
as that's comprehensive enough.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark BurningHawk
Baxter
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: userguide vor voiceover in 10.8, help
pls!

Have you tried the VO H help menu? 

. Mark BurningHawk Baxter
. AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969  . MSN:
burninghawk1...@hotmail.com  . My home page:
. http://MarkBurningHawk.net/

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RE: Voiceover on Login Screen in ML?

[Shen]

Hi Donna,
Have you tried changing your login screen from a list of users to just the
user name and password boxes?
I don't think how this would afect VoiceOver, but then, stranger things have
happened.
It does look more and more like a new installation is needed.

 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:20 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Voiceover on Login Screen in ML?

Hi Chris,

That's one of the weird things.  Pressing those keys does absolutely
nothing.  I'd say it was like the keyboard doesn't work, except that I am
able to interact with the user list, select myself, and enter my password.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jul 29, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Chris Moore apple.geek.ch...@gmail.com wrote:

 Donna,
 
 I did at first have this issue on one of my Macs.  After ticking the box
in login options for VO to kick in on login did not work for me.  So I hit
VO + F5 at login and turned the volume up and it worked.
 
 I am going to assume you have already tried this.
 
 One thing I have noticed though is when I awake my Mac from sleep and I am
greeted with the system dialog box to enter my username and password, I am
informed that i have 2 dialog boxes!  So god knows where the other one is!
 
 Chris
 On 29 Jul 2012, at 18:34, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:
 
 Hi Teresa,
 
 the option is in System Prefs under Users and login options, but checking
it doesn't same to make it work.  I've written to Apple about this, you
might want to do so as well.
 Best,
 Donna
 On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com
wrote:
 
 Hi, all,
 
 ML has changed things a bit. Is there still a way to have Voiceover in
the login screen? I can't seem to find that option anywhere.
 
 Thanks,
 Teresa
 
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Re: clean install?

[Shen]

Wonder if those who are strong believers of a clean install are all x Windows 
users. Hahaha!!!
Keep in mind that the Mac OS X is a very large and complex operating software. 
As you can see in the App Store download, it is over 4.3 GB.
In the history of software computing, nothing has worked 100 percent perfectly 
with no bugs. Bugs are bound to happen.
Isolated incidents are inevitable.
Having said that, I will share my experience.
I am guilty as charged of my own statement. I also thought that a clean install 
will make my Mac run faster and more smoothly. I first installed Lion as an 
upgrade over Snow Leopard. I had problems. Most of the bugs are small, none are 
show-stoppers. So I decided to do a clean install. Yes, things improved, but 
not in such a way that convinced me the clean install was the solution. I come 
to believe now that Lion was just a buggy version.
When Mountain Lion came out, I installed it as an upgrade over Lion. Boy was it 
a huge difference over Lion. My startup time is much faster, and in just a few 
days of using it, I've not had any problems. So essentially, Mountain Lion made 
a better Mac out of my machine.
I think it's an individual situation. If upgrading is not doing it for you, 
perhaps a clean install will take care of it. But don't think of upgrades as 
different from a clean install. Remember, if you think clean installs are 
better, you must be a Windows user. Lol!
Upgrade is just as good as a clean install. At the moment, I have no desire to 
do a clean install of Mountain Lion.



On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:16 PM, Dan Roy droy1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Tim:
 
 You've ben doing this for a long time.  You've also helped a lot of people on 
 this list.  So, believe me, I respect and trust your judgement.
 
 However, when I purchased Lion last year, I did do an upgrade installation.  
 Believe me, I wanted to do that, also, a lot of knowledgeable people like 
 yourself told me it was no problem.  However, something went wrong in my 
 case!  voiceover didn't behave well at all, moving around on web pages by 
 heading etc, just didn't work half the time.  I was having all kinds of 
 problems like that.
 
 So, I went back and did a clean install.  After that, I was much much happier.
 
 So, when I got ml, I simply took the extra time and did the clean install and 
 then used the migration wizard to retrieve all my data.  I didn't really even 
 want to do that, because, it retrieved all my settings and preferences, so, 
 really, this isn't a complete fresh install.  But, so far, it's working ok.
 
 there are a few annoying things, but, it has nothing to do with performance, 
 just new things voiceover says that I think we could do without
 
 So, I guess it just boils down to whatever works for the individual person.
 
 
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Tim Kilburn kilbur...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Just my opinion of course but I'll pipe in here with a further comment.  I 
 do hear a lot of folks on this list speaking of using Clean Installs.  I'm 
 guessing that they may be coming from a Windows background where clean 
 installs seem to be needed more often due to corrupt files.  For the most 
 part though, in the MacOS, this is unnecessary unless you are experiencing 
 very erratic behavior.  99 times out of 100 I've been able to fix the issue 
 by repairing disk permissions or removing and reinstalling an offending app. 
  People should do what they are most comfortable doing although I'm one who 
 doesn't care spending a huge amount of time fiddling with things when I 
 could be enjoying them instead.
 
 Have a good one all.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On 2012-07-27, at 3:41 PM, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I agree with you for the most part, Tim. However, after having my Mac Mini 
 for two years without doing a clean install, VO began muting itself 
 spontaneously, and a sys diagnose file began appearing without warning in a 
 finder window. I decided to use a clean install to clear these things up. 
 Believe me, I do think the upgrades are much, much easier, and I will use 
 them as long as my machine isn't acting up.
 
 Teresa
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Tim Kilburn kilbur...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 In my opinion, the clean install would be totally unnecessary.  I've done 
 100s or even 1000s of upgrade installs in my career and have only 
 experienced one problem.  The upgrade process is tested quite rigorously 
 and, really, for the most part, is no different than a clean install and 
 migration.  As long as you have either a Time Machine backup or some other 
 backup of your important data, I'd just go with the upgrade install.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On 2012-07-27, at 2:47 PM, Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hello all,
 I'm finally home, and plan to do the upgrade later today (here's hoping I 
 don't run into the installation or semper busy problems reported). So, 
 

Re: first possible bug in ML

[Shen]

Hi Donna,
OK, just so we cover all possibilities. You don't have an encrypted hard drive 
right? Because VoiceOver does not speak at the login screen with an encrypted 
hard drive.
OK, let's assume you don't have that since this just happened to you after 
installing Mount Lion.
I posted an email a few moments ago about the merits of a clean install versus 
upgrade. I am out of ideas at the moment, but I am still brainstorming for you.
I think your next step is probably taking the machine in and show it to the 
Genius Bar. I assume it is a laptop.
Also, since you mentioned Dictation, I found out that by pressing the function 
key twice, you enable Dictation. So hopefully you are not doing that.


On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:

 Hi Shen,
 
 When I'm logging in, no key presses work, not Command F5, and not the volume 
 keys.
 
 The other thing that's weird is when I get logged in, VO first says 
 Dictation IM has no windows.  I squirm around until I get out of that, and 
 then end up in another window that says something like System Core UI has no 
 Windows.  More squirming till I eventually get out of that.  It's all very 
 odd.  And if I set login prefs to log in automatically, I have no issues, 
 i.e. the Dictation And Core UI windows don't appear at all.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Donna,
 Not sure why this is happening to you. Then again, I have strange
 things happen to my VoiceOver as well that I'm sure no one has
 experienced.
 Please do let me know what happens if you decide to call Apple
 Accessibility or bring your machine into the Genius Bar.
 Just out of curiosity, have you tried pressing Command-F5 at the login
 screen to see if VoiceOver starts or not?
 Let's say, that VoiceOver is running, but just isn't speaking. If you
 press Command-F5, that will then turn it off. Assuming nothing else is
 wrong, if you press Command-F5 again, it should come back on and you
 should hear speech.
 I know this is a pain in the butt.
 
 
 
 
 On 7/27/12, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:
 Hi Matthew,
 
 Well, glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.  I wrote to Apple
 Accessibility also, so I'll let you know if I hear anything.
 Best,
 Donna
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Campbell wrestling.ch...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 Hi Donna.
 I to am seeing this. In my case, it seems to work every so often. I guess
 it needs to be in the right mood to work properly. *Smile*.
 I'm going to send a message to apple accessibility about this one and I'll
 report back on any feedback I get.
 
 On 2012-07-27, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my
 password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.
 Still not getting VO at login.
 Thanks,
 Donna
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is
 it possible the system is still booting up?
 Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at
 the login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box
 again.
 I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
 Hope that will help.
 
 
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:
 
 Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I
 hope that isn't the only long-term solution.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland
 clgillan...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs
 paine under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit
 command+F5 to turn it on manually?
 
 If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
 Subject: first possible bug in ML
 
 
 Hi all,
 
 Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have
 speech during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac
 and reboot. You can still log in, but you will have no speech while
 you are doing it. Can anyone confirm?
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
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Re: Bug when expanding mail messages

[Shen]

Hi,
Are you pressing VO-Backslash on the Conversation column?
I am doing the same here and have no problems expanding or collapsing 
conversations.

On Jul 26, 2012, at 10:17 AM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi, Tim,
 
 i didn't notice a difference with the slider set to 100 percent, but what I 
 did was to go into mail and say expand all conversations, and at the moment 
 that is making life easier.  At least I don't have to fight with it to expand 
 and collapse messages.  I hope this helps someone else who may be struggling.
 
 Harry
 
 On Jul 26, 2012, at 8:02 AM, Tim Kilburn kilbur...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Even with the Preview pane gone, VO will read a couple lines of your message 
 due to the Conversation view.  I simply press enter/return on the message to 
 open it and cmd-w to close the conversation.
 
 To get rid of the Preview pane, you need to move the Vertical Slider just to 
 the right of the Message Content area.  It needs to be moved all the way to 
 the right so that VO reads 100% and sometimes it will say closed disclosure 
 item.  I previously posted that simply moving it would do the trick in ML 
 but experienced a few frustrations with that method last evening on my iMac. 
  The other method is double-clicking on this Vertical Slider, it must be the 
 physical mouse click, not the virtual one through VO.  I will investigate a 
 little further to try to find a more reliable and efficient way of doing it 
 with VO.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On 2012-07-25, at 11:53 PM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 How do you close the preview pane?  That could be an interesting way to go 
 about it, but I also rather like seeing a preview of the message before I 
 read it.
 
 Harry
 
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Steve Holmes steve.holme...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 When I use Mail, I have the preview pane completely closed so for me to 
 open messages individually or a whole thread, I use Command-O to open a 
 new window and Command-W to close and return me to the message list.  I 
 did this in Lion and I still do it in Mountain Lion.
 
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 9:36 PM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I just noticed that when expanding mail messages with VO-space bar, 
 sometimes the focus is in the wrong place, apparently, and it opens up 
 the sort by menu where you are able to sort by attachments, date, from, 
 etc.  So far, my only complaint is that they took the expand mail 
 messages keystroke away for VoiceOver; I find this new one to be a bit 
 awkward.
 
 Other than that, it's really pretty nice.
 
 Harry
 
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interesting behavior with Mail

[Shen]

Hi all,
I discovered something new with Mail in Mountain Lion. It's not a big thing, 
but worth keeping in mind.
First, my Mail is in classic view. When going through a large amount of emails, 
I usually stay on the subject column since the sender column doesn't always 
tell me what the email is about.
My mail is sorted with the oldest at the top and newest on the bottom, but this 
might not make a difference.
I start at the top of the table of messages. Typically, when I press delete, 
the email gets moved away and the next email takes it's place, this is the 
email below the first email if you press the down arrow key.
OK, so far, this has been the case with all previous versions of Mail.
The new twist is that when you press the delete button, the next message that 
comes under focus depends on which arrow key you last pressed.
So if the last arrow key you pressed was down, the focus will move down when 
you press the delete key. However, if your last arrow key was up arrow, be 
careful, when you press delete, VoiceOver focus moves up and not down.
Not sure what kind of benefit this provides, but there it is.

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Re: first possible bug in ML

[Shen]

Hi Donna,
Not sure why this is happening to you. Then again, I have strange
things happen to my VoiceOver as well that I'm sure no one has
experienced.
Please do let me know what happens if you decide to call Apple
Accessibility or bring your machine into the Genius Bar.
Just out of curiosity, have you tried pressing Command-F5 at the login
screen to see if VoiceOver starts or not?
Let's say, that VoiceOver is running, but just isn't speaking. If you
press Command-F5, that will then turn it off. Assuming nothing else is
wrong, if you press Command-F5 again, it should come back on and you
should hear speech.
I know this is a pain in the butt.




On 7/27/12, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:
 Hi Matthew,

 Well, glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.  I wrote to Apple
 Accessibility also, so I'll let you know if I hear anything.
 Best,
 Donna
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Campbell wrestling.ch...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Donna.
 I to am seeing this. In my case, it seems to work every so often. I guess
 it needs to be in the right mood to work properly. *Smile*.
 I'm going to send a message to apple accessibility about this one and I'll
 report back on any feedback I get.

 On 2012-07-27, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my
 password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.
 Still not getting VO at login.
 Thanks,
 Donna
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:

 How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is
 it possible the system is still booting up?
 Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at
 the login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box
 again.
 I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
 Hope that will help.


 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:

 Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I
 hope that isn't the only long-term solution.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland
 clgillan...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs
 paine under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit
 command+F5 to turn it on manually?

 If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.

 Chris.

 - Original Message - From: Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
 Subject: first possible bug in ML


 Hi all,

 Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have
 speech during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac
 and reboot. You can still log in, but you will have no speech while
 you are doing it. Can anyone confirm?
 Thanks,
 Donna

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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Shen]

-26, at 1:09 PM, Eugenia Firth gigifi...@sbcglobal.net
 wrote:

 Hi guys.
 I got Mountain Kitty installed just fine, even though it took
 forever.
 I'm really pleased that I could do the installation process myself,
 but I'm glad also that Les warned us about turning VoiceOver back on
 after a minute. I almost had heart failure when I pressed command 5
 and nothing happened for a second or two. I did have to call that
 great 877 number last night because a program I thought I had
 uninstalled insisted on raising up its ugly head, even though I
 had—I
 thought—erased all of its files. That took us a while, and the man
 was
 very nice and knowledgeable about things. I discovered ast night
 that
 I had this weird mail problem, but we couldn't get to that last
 night.


 I can't get to all my mailboxes. The one where I have messages sent
 for this list is one of them. I will need to use iPhone to read
 anything from this list right now. I can get to my inbox and some
 others like archives. However, some of the ones I created I can't
 find. I don't think they're gone—I onepe—because I keep hearing the
 messages coming in, but I can't reach them unless they're in my
 inbox.
 Anybody got any ideas on this one?


 Eugenia Firth
 gigifi...@sbcglobal.net



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Re: keyboard shortcuts

[Shen]

http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/downloads.html

Keep in mind the keyboard shortcuts is also available in VoiceOver
Help by pressing VO-H.
For iOS devices, if you open Safari, the page is in your Bookmarks.


On 7/27/12, Stacey Robinson stacey...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 Hi,
 What is the address for keyboard shortcuts for the mac?
 (VoiceOver and Otherwise)
 Stacey and Chesley

 On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:20 AM, Shen wrote:

 How interesting. VO-Backslash is still working for me just fine.
 Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to read any of my emails since they are all
 grouped by conversations.
 FYI, the Apple accessibility webpage does have a Getting Started guide
 which has the entire summary of keyboard shortcuts in Appendix A.
 Sometimes, I'm impatient and don't want to read lengthy explanations.
 Instead, I just get to know all the keyboard shortcuts.


 On Jul 25, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:

 Strange.  I often wonder how we're supposed to learn these things.  :)
 Thanks much.

 Harry

 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Austin Seraphin aus...@behindthecurtain.us
 wrote:

 True. Vo-backslash doesn't work. Vo-space however does.

 - Austin




 On Jul 25, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi, guys,

 Not sure if others have experienced this, but in the Mail App,
 expanding mail messages either with command right arrow or VO+backslash
 doesn't seem to work.  I get a sound when I try to do it.
 I really like the status menus, though.

 Harry

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-- 
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Re: Problem Expanding Mail Messages

[Shen]

How interesting. VO-Backslash is still working for me just fine. Otherwise, I 
wouldn't be able to read any of my emails since they are all grouped by 
conversations.
FYI, the Apple accessibility webpage does have a Getting Started guide which 
has the entire summary of keyboard shortcuts in Appendix A.
Sometimes, I'm impatient and don't want to read lengthy explanations. Instead, 
I just get to know all the keyboard shortcuts.


On Jul 25, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:

 Strange.  I often wonder how we're supposed to learn these things.  :)  
 Thanks much.
 
 Harry
 
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Austin Seraphin aus...@behindthecurtain.us 
 wrote:
 
 True. Vo-backslash doesn't work. Vo-space however does.
 
  - Austin
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Harry Hogue harryhog...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi, guys,
 
 Not sure if others have experienced this, but in the Mail App, expanding 
 mail messages either with command right arrow or VO+backslash doesn't seem 
 to work.  I get a sound when I try to do it.
 I really like the status menus, though.
 
 Harry
 
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Re: first possible bug in ML

[Shen]

How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is it 
possible the system is still booting up?
Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at the 
login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box again.
I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
Hope that will help.


On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote:

 Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I hope 
 that isn't the only long-term solution.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs paine 
 under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit command+F5 to 
 turn it on manually?
 
 If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
 Subject: first possible bug in ML
 
 
 Hi all,
 
 Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have speech 
 during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac and reboot. 
 You can still log in, but you will have no speech while you are doing it. 
 Can anyone confirm?
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
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Re: start up times with ML?

[Shen]

Certainly startup times can vary depending on your system configurations.
I just timed my startup from a complete shut down. I have a 2010 MacBook Pro, 
2.4GHz with 4GB ram and a 128GB SSD.
My startup time from the moment the Apple chime stops to when VoiceOver starts 
talking at the login screen is 14.3 seconds.
I never timed the startup length for Lion. But I'm almost certain Mountain Lion 
is faster, probably as fast as Snow Leopard used to be.
Give your machine a day or 2 to get used the new OS.


On Jul 25, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 Missie,
  
 Also bare in mind that it could a been taking a while as Spotlight may a been 
 indexing your files and other stuff.  That always tends to slow it down just 
 a tad, until it's done.
  
 I'm with you, I'd not worry too much about it.
  
 Now, if you wait 20 minutes and the thing doesn't boot? Then? I'd be getting 
 a bit worried.  LOL!  Oh please! let's not give it any ideas.  LOL!  Hush!
  
 Chris.
  
 - Original Message -
 From: Missy Hoppe
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:10 AM
 Subject: RE: start up times with ML?
 
 Honestly, I see no need to mess with the stuff that runs at startup. As the 
 saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This last time I started up, it 
 was noticeably faster, so it could be that it's all settled in now and ready 
 to work. I've still got a few things I need to figure out, mostly the 
 notifications center, but I'll worry about that another day. For now, I'm 
 just happy that everything is working as well as it is.
 
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:41 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: start up times with ML?
 
 Missie,
  
 Just go into system prefs, then go to user accounts, and then to the login 
 items tab.
  
 Be careful though.  Don't remove anything if you're in doubt what it is or 
 does.
  
 Chris.
  
 - Original Message -
 From: Missy Hoppe
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:10 PM
 Subject: RE: start up times with ML?
 
 I have to agree. Startup time under ML is a bit on the slow side, especially 
 when compared to snow leopard, but, on the plus side, Voiceover starts as 
 expected. At least on my system, that couldn't be said for lion. So, it's 
 worth the slower startup to have VO behave as expected. I'd be interested to 
 find if there are any apps I could remove from startup, but I can't remember 
 how to access that area, and on the whole, I'd rather leave it alone if its 
 working.
 
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:01 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: start up times with ML?
 
 SL definitely bootted quite faster than Lion, let alone Mountain Lion.
  
 I think this question's quite subjective, as it really depends on a lot of 
 things, as you said, hd rpm speed, solid state or not, how the startup disk 
 is connected, SATA, vs. ATA, USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt, etc.
  
 You're processor also can play a factor, as an I5 is gonna be logically 
 faster than say, an I4.
  
 Also how full is the drive, and what login items do you have running at 
 startup and what daemons/services are running at startup.
  
 So, it's really difficult as you see to give an exact average boot up time, 
 but I'd say, for me at least, it's around a minute and a half, maybe 2 
 minutes pushing it, soaken wet.
  
 Chris.
  
 - Original Message -
 From: Ray Foret Jr
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:16 PM
 Subject: start up times with ML?
 
 Okay.
 
 Here's the thing.  When I was running SL, my Mac was fully started in just 
 about 30 seconds.  Now, under Lion, it isn't fully started up until about a 
 minute and 30 seconds.  Given this, what kinds of start up times can I expect 
 with ML on my Mac?  My unit is a 15 inch Mac book pro dating back to November 
 2009, 4Gb RAM, 500 GB 72000 RPM 500 drive.
 
 Thanks.
 
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
 
 Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
 
 Skype name:
 barefootedray
 
 
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Re: Mountain Lion repeating information in finder

[Shen]

Hi,
I had to try it myself to see what you were talking about.
Here is how to get rid of it. Open any folder where this is happening, my guess 
is the home folder.
Open view preferences by pressing Command-J. Uncheck the check box for Kind.
It's interesting that if you are looking at a folder, VoiceOver will say 
folder. But if kind is checked, it will show you visually that it is a 
folder, which VoiceOver will then say folder a second time.
Probably not a bug, but does seem a little odd.
On Jul 26, 2012, at 9:13 AM, Missy Hoppe mitmee@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi, all. I couldn't think of a more concise way to sum up the problem for the 
 subject of this message. Actually, this isn't a
 problem as much as an annoyance. If I'm in a finder window, it seems to be 
 telling me information twice. For example, if I'm
 scrolling down, it might say something like documents folder followed by 
 the date and whatever else, and then it says
 folder again. Same for actual files. It says the file name, then what type of 
 document it is, then the date info, and then
 what type of file it is again. I've looked through verbosity settings, and 
 can't seem to find anything to fix this problem.
 It could be that my short term memory is even more pitiful than usual, and 
 this is the way it's always read, but I don't
 think so. I thought the file type info was only read after the date and 
 stuff. For example: documents July 26 12:10 PM
 folder I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but the bottom line is 
 that file type information is being read twice, and
 I'd really appreciate it if someone had an idea how that could be fixed. Over 
 all, I'm still loving mountain lion, though.
 The new features and improved start-up definitely cancel out any minor quirks 
 I've encountered.
 Missy
 
 
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Re: iPhone and t-mobile

[Shen]

If you buy an unlocked iPhone, you will also need to buy a micro sim card from 
T-Mobile. Or you can trim your regular size sim card to fit in the iPhone's sim 
card tray. It's tricky, you want to make sure you trim it correctly to make 
sure the contact points are lined up. There are YouTube videos that show you 
how to do this. I would recommend just going to a T-Mobile store and buying a 
micro sim card.
The internet speed is 2G, or also known as EDGE. I believe your N82 is also 
using 2G, or in Nokia's term, EGPRS. I don't believe N82's 3G is compatible 
with T-Mobile's frequency. So I think when you go to the iPhone, the speed is 
the same.

On Apr 10, 2012, at 4:55 AM, Jim Gatteys wrote:

 So I am currently using an n82 and don't find it terribly slow with the 
 internet.  Wonder how that compares to the iPhone speed with t-mobile?
 Jim
 
 On Apr 9, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
 
 You can buy one unlocked and insert a t-mobile sim card.
 On Apr 9, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Jasonlefevers.massage wrote:
 
 I m confused how do you get a iPhone with t Mobil? I thought it was only 
 Verizon, sprint, and ATT where you can get iPhone service?
 
 Jason LeFevers 
 State of Maryland Registered massage practitioner 
 Call 443-570-8660 or email jasonlefevers.mass...@gmail.com to schedule a 
 massage today! 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Apr 9, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Jim Gatteys jgatt...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi!
 is it just the web that is at that speed or the overall operation of the 
 phone?
 ?  Not sure how that all works.  Thanks for any info.
 Jim
 
 On Apr 9, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
 
 I use mine, works fine, only works at 2 g speeds but that's good enough 
 for me.
 On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Jim Gatteys wrote:
 
 Hi all!
 Does anyone on here use their iPhone with t-mobile and if so, is it 
 really slow?
 Thanks,
 Jim
 
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Re: Deleting album from iPhone

[Shen]

Hi everyone,
I spoke to someone at Apple and was able to get clarification on the gesture. 
It's very strange that it works every time in Messages and Mail, but in Music, 
it seems to have some trouble.
So first, find where the item is on the screen. Move your finger until you find 
it. Then do the double tap and hold on the second tap. The trick is that as 
quickly as you can, right at the end of the triple click sound, slide your 
finger to the right. So don't wait or anything, as soon as you hear the triple 
click tone, slide your finger to the right.
When I did this, I got the delete confirmation more often than before. It's not 
perfect, but at least it's working more effectively for me now.
Good luck.

On Mar 16, 2012, at 6:19 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

 Helo everyone. I struggled with this also. I found that if I double tap and 
 hold  with one finger and make a small quick movement immediately after I 
 hear the tone, the prompt will show up and you will be able to delete the 
 elbum or podcast.
 
 On Mar 16, 2012, at 7:34 AM, Jürgen Fleger apple-engl...@fleger.net wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 the accessibility team says it's a bug between VoiceOver and iOS that it 
 doesn't work reliably using a swipe to the right as you described. They try 
 to fix it.
 
 I found two ways to do it anyway:
 1. Switch off VoiceOver and put your finger on the right place for ruffly 
 one second. Then move the finger to the right. Then you can switch on 
 VoiceOver again and click on the confirm delete button. 
 
 2. You are presumably a user of iTunes Match. Switch off iTunes Match on 
 your iPhone and delete content manually  via iTunes. Afterwards you can 
 switch iTunes Match on again.
 
 All the best
 Jürgen
 
 Am 16.03.2012 um 13:04 schrieb Kawal Gucukoglu:
 
 DearChris.
 
 It is difficult doing what you have asked as I have tried several times and 
 by the way you are following what others have said on the list and some 
 people get it to work but I can't.  If any one else has a better method, 
 please let us know.
 
 Kawal. 
 
 On 16 Mar 2012, at 11:35 AM, chris hallsworth christopher...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Hello all.
 The subject line says it all. How do I delete a specific album from the 
 iPhone? I went into music, went to the artists tab, double tapped on the 
 artist I am interested in, tried to double tap and hold then while holding 
 swipe to the right on the album I wish to delete, but I wasn't able to 
 delete it. I've tried several times. Please advise. Thanks!
 -- 
 
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problem typing Chinese after 10.7.3 update

[Shen]

Hi,
Wondering if anyone using Chinese is having the same problem I am having.
After the 10.7.3 Lion update, I can no longer type in Chinese Traditional 
Pin-Yin. It used to be that when you start typing, a list will popup letting 
you choose the correct character. When you are in this list, you use up or down 
arrow keys to scroll through the list. When you find the correct character, 
press the space bar to select it. You will then be back in your document to 
continue typing.
With the new update, I start typing, the list pops up, I can arrow up or down, 
but the space bar no longer selects the list. Return doesn't work either.
And here's the kicker. If you move away from the popup list, you will not be 
able to go back to it. The Chinese Traditional window will be on your screen, 
and you can find it with the Application Chooser, but you will not be able to 
focus on it.
Anyone having this issue or not?

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Re: problem with iPad Messages

[Shen]

Hi,
It's not my iPad.
Also, I want to get to the bottom of this. It's so strange that I
don't have this problem with my iPhone, but the iPad does.




On 3/4/12, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 Why not just setup  iCloud to sync your contacts?  This way you don't have
 to do anything.  When you add or, edit a new entry, the change will be
 reflected across all devices.

 Ricardo Walker
 rica...@appletothecore.info
 Twitter:@apple2thecore
 www.appletothecore.info

 On Mar 4, 2012, at 5:05 AM, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 I'm trying to share a few contacts from my iPhone to my iPad. I thought
 the easiest way is sharing via Messages. So I sent a few contacts over to
 my iPad.
 On the iPad, it says I have a message with an attachment. But no matter
 what I do, I can't find the attachment to select it. Visually, it is there
 on the screen, but VoiceOver is skipping over it.
 Does anyone have any  ideas what I can do to select the attachment?
 I've already tried restarting VoiceOver and the iPad. I know this works
 because I've done it on iPhone Messages.
 Any help is appreciated.

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Re: Deleting podcast from iPhone

[Shen]

Hello David,
How interesting you can't get it with VoiceOver off, but you can get
it with VoiceOver on. I have the complete opposite experience. I can
get it each time, with VoiceOver off, I swipe from left to right. But
with VoiceOver on, even following your steps, I can't even get the
delete confirmation.
Can you explain again, with more details, how you get it with VoiceOver on?
It's kind of disappointing that this gesture is not discussed in the
VoiceOver Getting Started manual. Or I should say, it is discussed as
a standard gesture, but not with VoiceOver on.


On 1/3/12, Deamon David balubathebr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi again, and thanks for answers.
 I tried both with VO on and off.
 I didn't manage to do it whith VO off, but with VO on I did the
 following:
 -Find the actual podcast I'd like to delete
 -Tap to select it
 -Double tap, and hold until there comes a sound
 -Than right after the sound, drag the finger to the right, while
 touching the screen with another finger

 -David
 On 3 Jan, 05:29, Paul Hunt .
 prhu...@att.net wrote:
 Thanks Jef. I was able to remove the podcasts. Thnks.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 2, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Jeff Berwick mailingli...@berwick.name
 wrote:







  It applies to an episode.

  The key is turning Voiceover off and then back on after you do the swipe
  gesture.

  I tried the pass-through gesture but, that didn't allow me to keep
  voiceover on.

  Jeff

  On 2012-01-02, at 7:12 PM, Paul Hunt wrote:

  This does not work for me, you must have the magic touch. When I put my
  finger on the podcast and swipe right I don't get th confirmation
  button. Do the instructions apply to an entire podcast or individual
  episodes?

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jan 2, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Jeff Berwick mailingli...@berwick.name
  wrote:

  On the iPhone, find the podcast you want to delete and remember where
  abouts it appears on the screen.  Then turn off Voiceover and do a
  swipe from left to right at the location of the podcast.  Turn
  Voiceover back on and look for the confirmation button and double tap
  it.

  Hth,
  Jeff

  On 2012-01-02, at 1:08 PM, Deamon David wrote:

  Hi guys.
  Can anyone here tell me how to delete podcasts that are downloaded on
  the iPhone?
  I've tried to find different ways to delete them.
  For example syncing with my Mac, and then delete it from there and
  sync again, That method resulted in just getting the files from the
  iPhone back to the Mac again.
  What to do?
  Cheers David

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deleting files on the iPhone

[Shen]

Hello,
I understand that I can delete files such as podcasts right in my iPhone 
without the need to connect to a computer. This is done by swiping from left to 
right across the file you want to delete.
But I can't figure out what the equivalent gesture is with VoiceOver. I tried 
tap and hold, then swipe. I see something that VoiceOver says menu item, but 
it doesn't seem to have anything within.
If anyone has been able to delete podcasts using VoiceOver, please let me know 
what the gesture or gestures are.
Thanks.
FYI, if you open Music, and browse to the Podcasts, you will be able to delete 
files. I don't know if this can be done anywhere else.


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Re: iTunes column browser

[Shen]

Yes, I checked my view settings. Although I'm not sure what you mean by 
checking it. Unless there is some specific setting I need to have, nothing 
seems to make any difference.
I also noticed the same thing is happening with the iTunes Sidebar.
If it says show iTunes sidebar it is being hidden, and remove iTunes 
sidebar it is being shown.
Very strange.

On Oct 19, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote:

 Hi:
 I'm not seeing this. Have you gone to double check your view settings?
 On Oct 19, 2011, at 2:04 AM, Shen wrote:
 
 I just downloaded and installed the latest iTunes version 10.5 in my Mac.
 I usually like to use the column browser to go through my music.
 It didn't take long, I realize that VoiceOver is giving the opposite message 
 of what the column browser is doing. Essentially, VoiceOver says show column 
 browser and it is actually being removed, and hide column browser when it is 
 popping up.
 Anyone else seeing this behavior?
 Is this something that Apple will have to fix or can we fix it in VoiceOver 
 ourselves?
 
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iTunes column browser

[Shen]

I just downloaded and installed the latest iTunes version 10.5 in my Mac.
I usually like to use the column browser to go through my music.
It didn't take long, I realize that VoiceOver is giving the opposite message of 
what the column browser is doing. Essentially, VoiceOver says show column 
browser and it is actually being removed, and hide column browser when it is 
popping up.
Anyone else seeing this behavior?
Is this something that Apple will have to fix or can we fix it in VoiceOver 
ourselves?

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Re: Is the blindmicemart site no longer mac accessible?

[Shen]

Hi,
No, you don't need to be a member to use the movie vault page. The movie vault 
page is not part of the main site under construction.
The movie vault page is up and running. I just downloaded a movie a couple of 
weeks ago.
The reason Safari and Chrome are not displaying the page is because the page 
contains incorrect html codes.
If you have Windows, try using Internet Explorer. It will display the page 
regardless of the code problems.
hth



On Oct 1, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Christine Grassman wrote:

 I believe when I signed up, there was a member log-in button, and when you 
 went into that, there was the ability to register if you were not yet a 
 member.  However, I suspect you won't be able to join until the new site is 
 up. You could e-mail for info to:
 blindmicem...@att.net
 
 On Oct 1, 2011, at 9:36 AM, johns.kary wrote:
 
 Hi Christine,
 Thanks for this info.
 How do you become a member of blindmicemart?
 I've never seen anything about  signing   up with them.
 Thanks,
 Kari.
 
 On 01/10/2011, at 10:55 PM, Christine Grassman wrote:
 
 I've had no luck with the movie vault for a few months now -- whenever I 
 enter it, it says empty html. However, according to an e-mail received 
 from Blind Mice Mart about a week ago, the new site
 http://www.blindmicemegamall.com
 should be up and running any day.  Oct. 1 was the approximate date noted in 
 the e-mail . . . so just a little more waiting . . . 
 Christine
 On Oct 1, 2011, at 2:47 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
 
 Hi, Kari,
 
 I went to blindmicemart.com and there's a message that indicates it's 
 under massive construction. It's not a Mac issue; just major overhaul, as 
 far as I can tell. It looks like a fun site, by the way; I hadn't known 
 about it. In any case, it says that the movie vault will be open during 
 construction with some broken links, but afterward, it will only be open 
 to members.
 
 HTh,
 Teresa
 On Sep 30, 2011, at 11:16 PM, johns.kary wrote:
 
 Hi guys,
 
 Does anyone know what's going on with the blindmicemart movie volt site?
 I can't access it at all on my mac.
 I don't have access to a window's computer at the moment to try that.
 Anyone know what's going on?
 
 Thanks,
 Kari.
 
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Re: I can't download anything all of a sudden

[Shen]

Hi,
I've had the same problems too. I never had this issue with Snow Leopard, so 
this is definitely a VoiceOver and Lion thing.
Here is my workaround. You can try this too.
If you don't get the correct menu when pressing VO-Shift-M, then first put the 
mouse on the link by pressing VO-CMD-F5.
Next, hold down the Control key and click the mouse.
This performs a control click on the item where the mouse is. This is 
equivalent to opening the shortcut menu.
Whenever I do this, I always get the menu I need.
hth

On Oct 3, 2011, at 3:12 PM, David Eagle wrote:

 Hi Esther. Thank you so much for that very thorough reply. I am always
 humbled by the generosity of people on the list, especially after my
 massive rants. Your option return trick worked a treat. Very strange;
 I don't know why it didn't recognise the link as a download link, -
 weirdly the first download link on the page does work, it's just the
 rest that don't - but at least I have a way round it.
 
 Regarding Safari Busy: I don't think I should be low on System
 resources since I have loads of ram and there shouldn't be anything
 else running in the background; however Safari hasn't been busy today
 so that's good.
 
 Thanks again for taking the time to respond. It is much appreciated. I
 am also very Impressed by your knowledge. It's amazing how used to
 windows I am, since I have used it all my life and still use it at
 work and a bit at home. I will get there eventually.
 
 On 03/10/2011, Esther mori...@mac.com wrote:
 Hello David,
 
 First of all, I'm not sure from your description what is going on, but one
 way to force the download of linked content such as mp3 files or PDF files
 when you are focused on the link is to press Option+Enter.  (A Mac purist
 would call this key combination Option+Return, which is how VoiceOver
 identifies the key that most Windows users call the  Enter key when you
 press it while you are in Keyboard Help mode (turned on with VO+K and
 terminated by pressing the Escape key; VoiceOver announces the pressed key
 combinations and their actions but doesn't  act on the keys in this mode);
 on the older Mac keyboards there was both an Enter key which could be
 assigned different functions and a Return key).  For a few oddly coded
 sites like the main Blind Cool Tech web site you have to first interact with
 the link for a podcast before you can use either VO-Shift-M to bring up the
 contextual menu to select your option (copy link, download linked file,
 etc.) or press Option+Enter to force a download of the linked file.
 
 If your linked MP3 file has started playing in the browser after you
 activated the link (e.g. by pressing VO-Space or pressing the up and down
 arrow keys together with QuickNav turned on), then you can get the file to
 download by pressing Command+L to highlight the URL in the address bar
 followed by Option+Enter to force the download of your selection.  These
 keyboard shortcuts work generally under Mac OS X and do not depend on
 VoiceOver. Also, it does not matter if you keep the toolbar of your web
 browser hidden.  Command+L will momentarily open the toolbar and highlight
 your current address. Then, after you press your Option+Enter, it will close
 the toolbar. This also works if you want to copy your current URL or go
 directly to the Google search field with Command+Option+F to type in search
 terms and press Return to execute the search, but still generally keep
 your toolbar hidden.  The toolbar will open for your Command+L, Command+C or
 your Command+Option+F and entry of typed search terms, and then close again
 after you press Return or perform your next action.
 
 The switch between Safari busy and Safari ready happens when you're running
 low on system resources.  In some cases this can be due to insufficient
 memory, but if you see this behavior associated with certain web pages it's
 more likely that the coding for that page is putting extra stress on your
 Safari browser -- either by the use of dynamically updating javascript or
 Flash content.  Since VoiceOver uses the system memory resources, too, it's
 sensitive to high usage and inefficiencies. The bigger consumers are Safari
 and iTunes, which is why you're more likely to hear the busy message
 associated with Safari.  This is not specific to Voiceover -- sighted users
 will refer to a visual cue for busy as the spinning pinwheel of death (or
 SPOD) associated with system lockups in the same circumstances.  In
 general, good system maintenance helps minimize these busy messages.  You
 can try clearing out your Safari caches periodically to free up more memory.
 The Reset Safari menu option accessed from the menu bar (VO-M or
 Control-F2 to the menu bar; navigate to the Safari menu with VO-Right
 arrow or the Right Arrow key of QuickNav, or by pressing S; then arrow
 down to Reset Safari or press r e s to get there and press return).  You
 can also get there with TrackPad Commander (two finger double tap at the top
 of the 

Re: Is the blindmicemart site no longer mac accessible?

[Shen]

Hi,
Just tried opening the movie vault page with Firefox 6.0, it does not like it.
But, I was able to display the page using Internet Explorer version 8.

I suspect that if enough people found the page inaccessible due to
html code issues, Blind Mice Mart will most likely start getting
emails.
I also suspect that the html code for the movie vault page is
hand-written. I tried looking at the codes myself and it was a mess.



On 10/3/11, Shen goalb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 No, you don't need to be a member to use the movie vault page. The movie
 vault page is not part of the main site under construction.
 The movie vault page is up and running. I just downloaded a movie a couple
 of weeks ago.
 The reason Safari and Chrome are not displaying the page is because the page
 contains incorrect html codes.
 If you have Windows, try using Internet Explorer. It will display the page
 regardless of the code problems.
 hth



 On Oct 1, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Christine Grassman wrote:

 I believe when I signed up, there was a member log-in button, and when you
 went into that, there was the ability to register if you were not yet a
 member.  However, I suspect you won't be able to join until the new site
 is up. You could e-mail for info to:
 blindmicem...@att.net

 On Oct 1, 2011, at 9:36 AM, johns.kary wrote:

 Hi Christine,
 Thanks for this info.
 How do you become a member of blindmicemart?
 I've never seen anything about  signing   up with them.
 Thanks,
 Kari.

 On 01/10/2011, at 10:55 PM, Christine Grassman wrote:

 I've had no luck with the movie vault for a few months now -- whenever I
 enter it, it says empty html. However, according to an e-mail received
 from Blind Mice Mart about a week ago, the new site
 http://www.blindmicemegamall.com
 should be up and running any day.  Oct. 1 was the approximate date noted
 in the e-mail . . . so just a little more waiting . . .
 Christine
 On Oct 1, 2011, at 2:47 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

 Hi, Kari,

 I went to blindmicemart.com and there's a message that indicates it's
 under massive construction. It's not a Mac issue; just major overhaul,
 as far as I can tell. It looks like a fun site, by the way; I hadn't
 known about it. In any case, it says that the movie vault will be open
 during construction with some broken links, but afterward, it will only
 be open to members.

 HTh,
 Teresa
 On Sep 30, 2011, at 11:16 PM, johns.kary wrote:

 Hi guys,

 Does anyone know what's going on with the blindmicemart movie volt
 site?
 I can't access it at all on my mac.
 I don't have access to a window's computer at the moment to try that.
 Anyone know what's going on?

 Thanks,
 Kari.

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controlling the cpu fan

[Shen]

Hello,
Awhile ago, someone mentioned that there is a good application that
lets you adjust the temperature thresholds when the fan for a MacBook
kicks in.
For the life of me, I can't remember what it is. Can someone please remind me.
I've noticed that streaming NetFlix is making my MacBook much warmer
than it has ever been.
Thanks.



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Re: For those who use two or more languages

[Shen]

I've always wanted to have VoiceOver use English when reading elements on a 
webpage such as headings, edit text, lists, but use the appropriate language 
for the main content.
This method is somewhat successful. I've been able to get the content of a 
Mandarin website to read using the Mandarin voice. I was able to get Alex to 
read things such as headings, buttons, and edit text.
But for some reason, VoiceOver wants the Mandarin voice to read the beginning 
and end messages of a list.
Very strange.



On Sep 29, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Anne Robertson wrote:

 Hello,
 
 I suspect that many new Mac users who work in more than one language have 
 become frustrated by the fact that changing the voice means that menu items 
 are read badly. Here's what to do to avoid this.
 
 • Open VoiceOver Utility (VO-F8);
 • Select the Speech category;
 • Navigate right through all the Pitch, Volume, etc until you find Additional 
 Voice Options and check it;
 • Now you'll find more categories for speech below Default Voice;
 • Set Content to Default voice, then set all the other options to a voice or 
 voices in the system language.
 
 Now, when you change the language with the Speech Attribute Rotor, the 
 language in which the text is read will change, but menus will be read in 
 your system language.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Anne
 
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Re: using the dash board

[Shen]

I would like to know too. Whenever I open the Dashboard, I just get the 
calculator. I'd like to know how to add and remove widgets.


On Sep 24, 2011, at 6:45 AM, Justin Thornton wrote:

 hi
 could some one please explain how I can find and use the dash board wigits?
 I would love to know how and wht they can do
 thanks
 On Sep 24, 2011, at 1:45 AM, Mark BurningHawk Baxter wrote:
 
 I use a word counter widget on the dashboard; I have not found a way to 
 count words in TextEdit.  Google for Word Counter widget or just write me 
 off list and I'll send it to you. 
 
 
 • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
 • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
 • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
 • My home page:
 • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
 
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Re: Battery life on Macbook pro if running Windows

[Shen]

I have a MacBook Pro purchased in mid 2010. It has a solid state drive.
Running Snow Leopard, I can get 10 hours of usage.
For the short time I had Windows 7 installed on a BootCamp partition, I kept 
getting the message that my battery has around 4 hours from a full charge.
I never got the chance to really test out how long the battery will last 
running Windows 7.
But I'm sure it is less than Snow Leopard. I say Snow Leopard because I'm also 
sure that Lion drains my battery faster than SL.


On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:18 AM, Jared wrote:

 I'm considering buying a Macbook pro and dule booting it. I will
 probably use it half mac and half windows. I've heard that the battery
 life with Windows is poor, but all the articles I've found stating
 this are from 2009. I'm curious what people have found battery life is
 like when running Windows with Jaws as the screen reader.
 
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Re: question about downloading in Saphari

[Shen]

Hello,
I'm sorry. What is Option Enter suppose to do?
I opened Safari to a podcast page and moved over to a link that says download 
today's podcast. Most of the time, VO-Shift-M will open the correct menu and 
let me download it.
But whatever Option Enter is suppose to do, it does nothing for me.
Sometimes, when I do VO-Shift-M, I get a completely different menu. I don't 
always get the menu that lets me download the linked file.
When this happens, I have to move the mouse to the link and control click on it 
to get the correct menu.

On Aug 31, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Option enter does the same thing.
 
 hth
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rwalker...@gmail.com
 Twitter  Skype: rwalker296
 www.mobileaccess.org
 
 On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Simon Cavendish wrote:
 
 When you encounter a link which is to download a file, focus on it and press 
 vo+shift+m to get contextual menu and arrow down to hear download linked 
 file  and / or download linked file as. This will give you a choice to 
 download the file or the latter will give you a choice a specify where to 
 download your file to.
 On 30 Aug 2011, at 21:19, Denise Barajas wrote:
 
 Hello all, I've been wondering what to do when downloading a certain 
 podcast or song that is an MP3 file. Offten times, I either can download it 
 wirte away when clicking on the link for it, or other times it will simply 
 play the selection in Saphari. Is there a way I can change the behavior for 
 when it plays things in saphari? I don't alays want to listen, I just care 
 to download it to listen to it later. I hope my question isn't worded too 
 strangely, bt this was the best way I could put it into words. If anyone 
 could please assist, I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
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Re: time script

[Shen]

I have the opposite from you. I've noticed a quicker response in
10.7.1 than 10.7.
Having read the thread concerning the time script, it gave me
motivation to go and do what I've always wanted to do. I've always
wanted to hear the time before the date. So I tweaked the script to
speak the time first.
Maybe it's just my mind playing tricks, but I think the script
responds even more quickly now.
Eventually, I might decide to separate the scripts so 1 command reads
the time and 1 reads the date.




On 8/24/11, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've noticed this too.  But it seems more the case in 10.71 than 10.7.

 Ricardo Walker
 rwalker...@gmail.com
 Twitter  Skype: rwalker296
 www.mobileaccess.org

 On Aug 24, 2011, at 1:47 AM, Shen wrote:

 I have also noticed a lag in Lion as well. When I was using Snow Leopard,
 VoiceOver responds instantly when I press the keyboard commander for the
 time script. Now in Lion, I've experienced at least a 1.5 second lag.
 And yes, I have checked allow VoiceOver to be controlled by Apple Script.


 On Aug 23, 2011, at 6:22 AM, craig J Dunlop wrote:

 I git that too. and then it only reads the 12 hour time even though my
 macbook is set for 24 hour.

 On Aug 22, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Candie Stiles wrote:

 Yes I've experienced the very same thing. Some times I need to press the
 key combination twice before getting a response.
 On Aug 22, 2011, at 7:24 PM, james Walton wrote:

 hi everyone,
 who here has problems with they do the time script, it takes at least
 like 2 or 3 seconds to even speak the time and date?

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Re: time script

[Shen]

I have also noticed a lag in Lion as well. When I was using Snow Leopard, 
VoiceOver responds instantly when I press the keyboard commander for the time 
script. Now in Lion, I've experienced at least a 1.5 second lag.
And yes, I have checked allow VoiceOver to be controlled by Apple Script.


On Aug 23, 2011, at 6:22 AM, craig J Dunlop wrote:

 I git that too. and then it only reads the 12 hour time even though my 
 macbook is set for 24 hour.
 
 On Aug 22, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Candie Stiles wrote:
 
 Yes I've experienced the very same thing. Some times I need to press the key 
 combination twice before getting a response.
 On Aug 22, 2011, at 7:24 PM, james Walton wrote:
 
 hi everyone,
 who here has problems with they do the time script, it takes at least like 
 2 or 3 seconds to even speak the time and date?
 
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Re: Voiceover stops for no reason

[Shen]

Hi,
I am having the same issue even with Lion. I've found that most of the time, if 
I press the keyboard shortcut for going to desktop VO-Shift-D, VoiceOver comes 
back speaking.
Give that a try.
Also, a lot of times, it's because I have Safari running. If I quit Safari, 
this problem doesn't happen as often.

On Aug 20, 2011, at 6:55 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

 Try turning VO off then on again four or five times.  Make sure you wait 3 or 
 4 seconds between key presses.  It will usually come back on.
 
 Later…
 
 On 2011-08-20, at 7:38 PM, Kevin Gibbs wrote:
 
 guys,
 I'm having a real problem.  I'm using Snow Leopard and VO.  for some
 reason, Voiceover will simply stop speaking for no reason at no
 reliable time.  turning Voiceover off and back on doesn't do the
 trick.  I have enough vision to see the caption panel, which I have
 concealed until now.  I'm going to leave it on the screen so I can see
 whether Voiceover is on or off the next time one of these failures
 occurs.  The only solution seems to be to restart the computer.
 that's not acceptable. All my software is up to date on Snow
 Leopard.  I have not installed Lion.
 
 Unfortunately, I did apparently install the latest versions of Safari
 and iTunes which I didn't intend to do when I installed the latest
 version of Snow Leopard.  I have no reason to think that did
 anything.  I just don't have a clue.  I even called Apple Care and, of
 course, the problem wouldn't happen while I was on the phone.
 
 Any ideas?
 Kevin
 
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Re: google chrome

[Shen]

Hi,
The problem with edit boxes is that VoiceOver does not read what you typed. 
Basically, text is being typed into the box. VoiceOver just doesn't read it.
For example, google.com. If you type something in the search field, you cannot 
back space or arrows. But if you VO away then back, you will hear it.
Then there is amazon.com. No matter what you do, you will not be able to get 
VoiceOver to tell you what you typed in the search field. But the text is there 
and pressing vo-space on the Go button will not work, you need to press enter 
in the text field.
Complicated? Yes. Need improvement? Definitely.

On Aug 18, 2011, at 5:38 AM, Red.Falcon wrote:

 Hi Chad!
 I've found on some text fields that I have to do a mouse click and then you 
 can type!
 So I make sure the mouse is there with vo+command+f5 then mouse click 
 vo+shift+space!
 But still sometimes although vo says nothing the text is going in!
 And I just left arrow once and back and the text is then red, so this might 
 work for you!
 If not back to the drawing board! :]
 Colin
 
 On 18 Aug 2011, at 08:45, chad baker wrote:
 
 hi just downloaded chrome and can't type in edit fields
 when i type vo don't speak and nothing gets typed
 any suggestions
 thanks
 
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Re: Safari 5.1

[Shen]

Hi,
I don't think you can just roll your Safari back to the previous version. I did 
a quick search but haven't found anything so far. If I do, I'll let you know.

On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, Linda Adams wrote:

 Shen and Others,
 
 I'm still having problems with Safari 5.1 and Earthlink Web Mail.  My 
 problems are a little different from the one you describe with HotMail but 
 I'm thinking Safari 5.1 is the culprit.  Could someone tell me how to return 
 to the former Safari version.  I'm not too computer literate so details would 
 be much appreciated.
 
 Thanks in advance,
 Linda
 
 On Aug 11, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Shen wrote:
 
 Hello,
 Is anyone using the latest Safari 5.1 with the hotmail website? If so,
 do you have any trouble such as Safari going busy for a long time?
 I don't remember having this problem with Snow Leopard and Safari 5.06.
 Now, it seems that after logging in hotmail, Safari is giving me a lot
 of busy signals.
 And here's the clincher. Open an email, and click on an attachment to
 download. Safari will go into endless busy. There's no way out of it
 unless you force quit the application.
 Any suggestions on these issues would be appreciated.
 
 
 
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 goalb...@gmail.com
 
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Re: issue with google chrome

[Shen]

I have the same problems with Chrome. But when I was prompted to choose a 
search engine, I chose the first image button. I figure the choices are 
probably Google, Yahoo and Bing. I'm quite certain Google is the first choice, 
and I was right.
I am able to read an html site, but for some reason, some links don't click. 
Drop down menus like amazon.com does not work. When I type something in an edit 
box, apparently it is going into the box, but VoiceOver does not read it back 
to me.
I can't use tab navigation the way I do in Safari.
In Chrome Preferences, I can get past the first tab, which is Basic.
In my opinion, Chrome is somewhat accessible,but it's not ready to replace 
Safari.
I wish there is something that can replace Safari. At this point, I'm ready to 
go back to Windows and using Firefox with Jaws or Window-Eyes. At least it's 
not going to say Safari busy.


On Aug 13, 2011, at 10:54 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:

 well,
 I wanted to try out google chrome today and couldn't even get past the select 
 a search engine interface. all it presented me with was 3 images and 3 
 unlabeled buttons. also, I couldn't use any of the web item rotor controls 
 and even command Q would not terminate the application. so, unless anyone has 
 some suggestions on how I can use chrome, I guess I am still stuck with 
 safari. 
 
 I really hate the thought of going back to windows after spending a year in 
 OS X. I hated dealing with windows and its arbitrary interface that wasn't 
 very blind friendly (even with NVDA). anyone have any clues for me?
 
 -Eric
 
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Sendspace wizard and sendspace.com

[Shen]

I'm curious if anyone has been able to navigate the sendspace.com website using 
Safari 5.1 in Lion.
I know the wizard is not accessible, so that's out of the question.
I just discovered today that if I tried deleting a file on sendspace.com using 
Safari, it will go into endless busy.
Chrome isn't coming to the rescue because I can't even log in. Clicking on the 
log in link and nothing happens.

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Re: issue with google chrome

[Shen]

Oh, I didn't know you are having these issues with Snow Leopard. For me, I am 
having these issues with Lion.
And I am only having these issues after installing Lion. When I was using Snow 
Leopard, I almost never get Safari busy messages. If you are having so many 
issues with Snow Leopard, I would not recommend going to Lion.



On Aug 14, 2011, at 12:11 AM, Eric Oyen wrote:

 oh yeah. the dreaded safari busy problem. I am seeing that a lot more 
 lately. its even happening in the new webkit versions. on top of the safari 
 issues, I also have mail.app behaving in an odd manner. it starts stuttering 
 reading the mail titles and even tries to repeat the same line 3 times in 
 voiceover. its getting so irritating that I give up reading e-mails except in 
 small batches. this particular problem only cropped up in the last 3 weeks. I 
 have done all the usual system corrections (scanning permissions and even the 
 repair disk function). so far, no dice.
 
 please don't ask me to upgrade to lion as I don't have the money nor the 
 supported hardware. I already tried and the installer barfed while starting 
 up. even when I got visual help here to see what the problem was they told me 
 it was not possible to install lion on my system as the cpu was considered 
 too old. I am saving up for a new mac mini i7. until then, I am stuck with 
 whatever I have.
 
 -Eric 
 On Aug 13, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Shen wrote:
 
 I have the same problems with Chrome. But when I was prompted to choose a 
 search engine, I chose the first image button. I figure the choices are 
 probably Google, Yahoo and Bing. I'm quite certain Google is the first 
 choice, and I was right.
 I am able to read an html site, but for some reason, some links don't click. 
 Drop down menus like amazon.com does not work. When I type something in an 
 edit box, apparently it is going into the box, but VoiceOver does not read 
 it back to me.
 I can't use tab navigation the way I do in Safari.
 In Chrome Preferences, I can get past the first tab, which is Basic.
 In my opinion, Chrome is somewhat accessible,but it's not ready to replace 
 Safari.
 I wish there is something that can replace Safari. At this point, I'm ready 
 to go back to Windows and using Firefox with Jaws or Window-Eyes. At least 
 it's not going to say Safari busy.
 
 
 On Aug 13, 2011, at 10:54 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:
 
 well,
 I wanted to try out google chrome today and couldn't even get past the 
 select a search engine interface. all it presented me with was 3 images and 
 3 unlabeled buttons. also, I couldn't use any of the web item rotor 
 controls and even command Q would not terminate the application. so, unless 
 anyone has some suggestions on how I can use chrome, I guess I am still 
 stuck with safari. 
 
 I really hate the thought of going back to windows after spending a year in 
 OS X. I hated dealing with windows and its arbitrary interface that wasn't 
 very blind friendly (even with NVDA). anyone have any clues for me?
 
 -Eric
 
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Re: Sendspace wizard and sendspace.com

[Shen]

Thank you. I didn't look around thoroughly. Once I found extended VoiceOver 
Compatibility, it changed everything.


On Aug 14, 2011, at 12:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

 Where did you hear that the Sendspace wizard wasn't accessible?  the wizard 
 works fine once yu enable voiceover compatibility mode.
 
 Go subscribe to my podcast by going in Safari to:
 
 http://eclecticjukebox.podhoster.com
 
 I do a whole demonstration where I show you in great depth how to use the 
 wizard.
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: Shen goalb...@gmail.com
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 2:54 AM
 Subject: Sendspace wizard and sendspace.com
 
 
 I'm curious if anyone has been able to navigate the sendspace.com website 
 using Safari 5.1 in Lion.
 I know the wizard is not accessible, so that's out of the question.
 I just discovered today that if I tried deleting a file on sendspace.com 
 using Safari, it will go into endless busy.
 Chrome isn't coming to the rescue because I can't even log in. Clicking on 
 the log in link and nothing happens.
 
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OT: CoreServicesUIAgent

[Shen]

Hello,
Sorry for the off topic post. Hopefully someone can point me in the right 
direction.
Whenever I download an application and run it for the first time, I get the 
CoreServicesUIAgent window telling me this is an application downloaded from 
the internet and do I wan to open it. I usually just click Open and it goes 
away. This only pops up when I open an application for the first time. This is 
fine, I can understand this.
However, why is Lion doing this to me when I open mp3 files? I don't get it. 
For every mp3 file I open, I will get this dialog window.
Does anyone know where I can modify this so that I don't see it for certain 
file types like mp3s?
Thanks.

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Lion clean install

[Shen]

Hello,
So I decided to take the plunge today and do a clean installation of Lion.
I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to install Lion. In fact, it was so 
easy the whole process took less than an hour. VoiceOver spoke to me the entire 
time.
So far, I've been using it for about 2 hours. I do feel that a clean 
installation of Lion does make it run a bit more smoothly. I don't think it's 
faster, but just more smooth.
There are 3 small anomalies that I thought were a bit odd.
First, during the installation process, it asked me to set the time zone. This 
was normal. But what was not normal was the fact that it has my city 
preselected. I just have to click continue.
Second, after installation, I just assumed I need to setup my Bluetooth 
keyboard to work. No, it is already connected and working. How's this possible?
I'm quite certain I had erased the hard drive and did a clean installation. 
It's interesting that of all the settings I had, it remembered the time zone 
and my Bluetooth keyboard. Why not my VoiceOver settings, or Finder settings?
The third thing is probably more of a problem with Lion. When making certain 
changes in System Preferences, you have to click the Lock button to allow you 
to make changes. When you do this, another dialog window pops up asking you to 
authenticate the administrator account. For some reason, when this window pops 
up, VoiceOver will say that the authentication windows is busy and it will stay 
busy for at least 30 seconds, maybe an entire minute. I find this very bizarre. 
Finally, when it is ready, I can type my user name and password.
Anyways, over all, it has been a pleasant surprise so far.

Except for the last 5 minutes. As I was typing this email, Mail quit 
unexpectedly. I've never seen this happen before. But then, when I reopened 
Mail, what a surprise, it saved a draft of my email so I didn't lose anything.
For those who are having lots of issues with Lion, especially when the user 
experience is not as good or better than Snow Leopard, I recommend considering 
a clean install.
It is so easy to install. For iTunes, I just copied the music folder to an 
external drive. After installing Lion, I copied it back and my entire library 
is there. Can't get any easier than that.


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Safari 5.1 and hotmail

[Shen]

Hello,
Is anyone using the latest Safari 5.1 with the hotmail website? If so,
do you have any trouble such as Safari going busy for a long time?
I don't remember having this problem with Snow Leopard and Safari 5.06.
Now, it seems that after logging in hotmail, Safari is giving me a lot
of busy signals.
And here's the clincher. Open an email, and click on an attachment to
download. Safari will go into endless busy. There's no way out of it
unless you force quit the application.
Any suggestions on these issues would be appreciated.



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Re: Getting to the top or bottom of a list

[Shen]

I wish Apple didn't remove the Jump command.
This might be more of a convenience than usability. But I would have preferred 
the Jump command. If you are on the sender column, using the jump command takes 
you to the top or bottom of the table without leaving that column.
Using VO-Shift-Home or End takes you to the first row and column, and the last 
row and column. This takes you away from the column you were in. A bit annoying 
since you now have to find your way back to the column you were working within.


On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:49 PM, Doug Lawlor wrote:

 Hi Paul,
 You must interact with the messages column then interact with the messages 
 table. When you interact with the messages column you see two items, Sort by 
 date and messages. Just interact with the messages table then vo+shift+home 
 will take you to the top and vo+shift+end will take you to the bottom.  
 
 Doug
 
 On 2011-08-04, at 1:08 AM, Paul Henrichsen wrote:
 
 How does one get to the top of a list of email messages? VO shift home puts 
 me on the sort item. 
 Thanks. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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Mail classic view

[Shen]

Hi,
Wondering if anyone has seen this. You probably have to have your Mail setup 
the same as mine to see this behavior. I have my Mail set to classic view, and 
group messages by conversation.
I generally put VoiceOver on the subject line since I don't really need to know 
who is sending the emails.
OK, so I arrow to a conversation. I arrow left once to hear the sender. Now 
let's say I arrow up or down away from that conversation, then decided to go 
back. This time, a different name is in the from field.
I have not opened the conversation ahd have not read any messages in this 
conversation. Yet, the second time when I see the sender, it is different from 
the first time.
I can't pinpoint any particular pattern. But it seems to be happening randomly.
Has anyone seen this behavior?



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Re: a most paculiar Safari behavior

[Shen]

Hi, yes I am noticing this too. Although I am getting this more after I 
installed Lion. I don't know if this is because of Lion, or because of Safari 
5.1.
I have to manually interact with the html section more often than before. 
Before, VoiceOver was better at interacting with html content automatically.

On Jul 29, 2011, at 1:13 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:

 Okay.  Here's the thing I'm finding.  Sometimes, when I open Safari, the VO 
 curser doesn't go directly to my home page.  Every time I open a page in a 
 session where that happens, I have to manually interact with each and every 
 page.  Keep in mind the following two facts.
 
 1.  I have my VO set so that with every web page that loads, the VO curser is 
 supposed to go directly to it.
 
 2.  I was noticing the behavior described above even before I installed Lion 
 and was using the latest Safari version just issued the same day Lion came 
 out.
 
 Anybody else notice this?  IF so, got any suggestions on whether this will be 
 fixed in 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 or perhaps a setting I might adjust differently?  
 Thanks.
 
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
 
 Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
 
 Skype name:
 barefootedray
 
 Facebook:
 facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
 
 
 
 
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strange behavior with Lion

[Shen]

So I came home today and thought I do some things on my MacBook Pro,
such as checking email and browse the internet.
The Mac booted up, I logged in, everything works fine except my volume
controls, F11 and F12 don't work. I checked everything and confirmed
that everything on my keyboard works. Even Fn plus F11 and F12 work
just fine. I thought perhaps it's my BlueTooth keyboard acting up.
Keep in mind this never happened with Snow Leopard.
I reached over to the built-in keyboard in my MacBook Pro. No dice!
F11 and F12 just refuse to work.
OK, I thought perhaps the machine needs a restart. Even though it has
just been booted up after being off the entire day. I'll give it the
benefit of the doubt.
I restarted my machine, got to the log in window, provided my
credentials, and logged in. After reaching the Desktop, I tried the
volume keys again. Still, they didn't work. This was the most puzzling
thing to me. Of all the things not to work, it's the volume controls.
I was able to use VO-M to open the status menu and check the system
volume. According to the status menu, the System volume is set to
100-percent. I know it's not because it would distort my speakers. I
tried using the arrow keys to adjust the volume in the status menu. It
wouldn't budge. It stayed at 100-percent. Is that weird or not?
OK, this time, I decided to give it the cold restart, turning it
completely off, then on.
After restarting a second time, my volume controls came back.
Before any of you question me whether I have a functioning keyboard or
not, let me end this message by tell ing you that this has never
happened before when I was running Snow Leopard. And come to think of
it, a similar incident happened last week, a couple of days after
installing Lion. But since I was in the process of rebooting,I didn't
bother to stop and investigate. That time, everything did not work
except for the volume buttons. After restarting, everything came back
to normal so I didn't think much of it.

So has anyone experienced this before?
Does anyone have any guesses whether this is just a glitch in Lion,
having upgraded from Snow Leopard? Will a clean install of Lion get
rid of these little annoyances?



-- 
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Re: Moving Mailboxes to the favorites Bar in Lion?

[Shen]

I believe, if your mouse cursor is not set to follow the VoiceOver cursor, that 
you will need to bring it over before using the drag and drop feature.
So use VO-Command-F5 to bring the mouse pointer to the VoiceOver cursor. Then 
use VO-Comma to mark the item to drag.
Go to the Favorites bar, and again, move the mouse pointer to the Favorites bar.
To drop the item at the location where the VoiceOver cursor is, press VO-Comma.
If your cursor is on a mailbox, and you want the item dropped to the left of 
that mailbox, press VO-Less Than.
If you want the item dragged to the right of where your VoiceOver cursor is, 
press VO-Greater Than.

hth


On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

 Thanks, Eric. Unfortunately, your instructions didn't work either.
 
 Teresa
 On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:48 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
 
 Hi Teresa,
 
  I had a similar experience trying to move mailboxes to the Favorites 
 bar.  I had success when I used the other drop command that is the one that 
 drops the dragged mailbox under the current location you are on.  so I 
 picked up my mailbox with VO  comma, then went to the Favorites bar 
 interacted it and went to the last mailbox in the list. I then pressed VO 
 shift Period which is really VO greater than.  For me for some reason this 
 worked better then VO Period.  Hope this helps.
 
 Eric Caron 
 On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
 
 Hi, all,
 
 I was able to move one mailbox to the favorites bar. I have about 15 of 
 them in my mailbox list, and when I try to drag and drop, I either get 
 area to drop may be hidden, or item to be dragged no longer in view. 
 I've tried full screen and making sure everything else was hidden when not 
 in full screen mode, but this doesn't seem to make any difference.
 
 TiA,
 Teresa
 
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Re: Mail Impressions in Lion

[Shen]

This is indeed a very useful feature. Thanks.
Now if I can get VoiceOver to read the body of a message with just 1 keystroke 
the way it used to be in Snow Leopard with the tab key, I might like this new 
Mail better.

On Jul 24, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I just want to say, thanks to the person who mentioned using the favorites 
 bar.  Its freaking amazing.  lol.  here's what you do, if the favorites bar 
 is not already shown press command option shift H to show it.  Now go to your 
 mailbox table and interact.  Navigate to the mailbox you want in favorites 
 and press VO comma to mark the mailbox for drag and drop.  Now stop 
 interacting with the mailbox table and navigate to the favorites bar.  It is 
 near the toolbar btw, and press VO period to drop the mailbox into to the 
 favorites bar.  Now, you can press command plus the corresponding number to 
 jump directly into the messages table for that mailbox no matter where you 
 are in mail.  You can double check what number your mailbox is by going to 
 mailbox in the menu bar and opening the go to favorite mailbox sub menu.  
 Even better, you can move messages from one mailbox to the next with a 
 keystroke.  When on the message you want to move all one needs to do is add 
 control to the favorite mailbox command.  for example, lets say my 
 Macvisionaries mailbox is the first item in my favorites.  It would be 
 assigned the number 1 to to jump to it I would press command 1.  Now lets say 
 my gmail inbox was the 2nd item in favorites so it would be jumped to by 
 pressing command 2.  Now lets pretend I wanted to move a message from the 
 macvisionaries mailbox to my gmail inbox.  I would just have to be on said 
 message and press command control 2.
 
 This is a really, really, cool feature.  To remove a mailbox from the 
 favorites bar you can't use the new drag and drop method.  Here's how you do 
 it though.  Interact with the favorites bar and navigate to the mailbox you 
 wish to remove.  Now if your mouse cursor is not following your VO cursor you 
 will need to press VO command F5 to move the mouse cursor to the VO cursor 
 manually.  After that, press VO command shift spacebar to do a mouse down.  
 Now, stop interacting with the favorites bar and VO right arrow once to the 
 mailbox table.  Finally just press VO command shift spacebar to do a mouse up 
 and you will hear Mail make a sound to indicate the mailbox was removed from 
 favorites.  Keep in mind, if you don't have your mouse cursor set to follow 
 your VO cursor, when you move to the mailbox you will have to move the cursor 
 manually again with VO command spacebar.  Btw, the keystrokes can be found in 
 the menu bar under mailbox then explore the go to favorite mailbox sub menu 
 and the Move To Favorite Mailbox submenu.
 
 hth
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rwalker...@gmail.com
 Twitter  Skype: rwalker296
 www.mobileaccess.org
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Keith Watson wrote:
 
 Hi guys,
 
 Funny enough I have switched from using quick nab in mail to not using it. I 
 now switch between my mailboxes and message area using the tab key and only 
 use quick nab to have the messages in a thread read automatically when they 
 don't.
 
 I find this to use much fewer key strokes and am glad Scott finally 
 convinced me to do it this way.
 
 
 Keith
 On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:11 AM, David Taylor wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I'm playing with the new layout too. I just use Quick Nav a lot more than I 
 used to in mail. I wonder if quite a few of the changes will make me default 
 to having quick nav switched on most of the time now. I certainly like the 
 way the preview is working for me as there are quite a few messages I would 
 probably have opened before that I am not doing now.
 
 Cheers
 Dave
 
 On 21 Jul 2011, at 11:56, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 I wanted to give my impressions of the new OS X Mail, which I'm slowly 
 coming to grips with.  I've decided to force myself to use it in the new 
 layout, and have actually had some success with it.
 To begin with, the VoiceOver Getting started guide suggests using it with 
 the VO cursor, and I have to agree.  Doing it this way seems to be quite 
 fast, and is working quite well for me.  You can jump quickly between the 
 table of messages and the message proper with vo-j.
 Conversations can either be expanded or not, depending on whether you need 
 to work with the individual messages in them.  By default it seems the 
 focus is on the first unread message of every conversation, and they are 
 displayed in reverse-chronological order, which makes sense to me as you're 
 likely to be concerned with the recent messages over the older ones.
 Attachments work pretty much as they always have.  You'll find a popup 
 button in the message headers allowing you to save them, and a Quick-look 
 button allowing you to preview them.  This all requires the VO cursor for 
 navigation, of course, but thus far I've had no real problems with it 

Re: IMPORTANT: To MacBook Pro Lion Users

[Shen]

Hello,
I am not sure what I am looking for when you said to check my power supply. If 
you mean it might not work, well, it is definitely working. It charged my 
battery in roughly 2 hours which is what it has always done.
As for Activity Monitor, the 2 processes that seems to peak the highest are 
VoiceOver and Kernel_task.
They both peak around 5 to 10 percent, but not above it.
I think it has something to do with disc activity. So I clicked on Disc 
Activity, but can't make any sense of it at the moment.
Will keep looking.

On Jul 25, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote:

 Hi:
 Have you checked your power supply. I had the same issue, and my power supply 
 was bad.
 On Jul 24, 2011, at 10:36 PM, Shen wrote:
 
 Unfortunately, I know this is not the issue. It would make things easier.
 I know this because up until a couple of weeks ago, I didn't know that my 
 keyboard brightness was set to maximum. With no light perception, how can I 
 know?
 And my Mac still gave me 10 hours of battery life with SL. And now with 
 Lion, the bottom feels warmer much more quickly than it did with SL.
 So I know this is not the issue.
 I am quite sure that there is much more disc activity than before. I just 
 don't know if it is Spotlight, or something else.
 
 
 On Jul 24, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Missy Hoppe wrote:
 
 Hi! Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I've already confirmed more 
 than once that my keyboard's backlight is
 completely turned off. I have light perception, and am about 95 percent 
 definite that the backlight is not glowing at all.
 Same with the screen. I keep brightness at 0 and also enable the screen 
 curtain.
 It's an excellent suggestion, though, and I hope it helps someone.
 Missy
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 5:49 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: IMPORTANT: To MacBook Pro Lion Users
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 After posting my last message to the list regarding the increase in heat
 generated on my MBP since installing Lion and the definite lessening of
 battery life, I took a closer look at my MBP and discovered what I hope will
 prove to be useful to you.
 
 F Y I:  Until yesterday, I was running Lion on an external FireWire drive
 and did not notice the increase in heat since the computer is always sitting
 on my desk when running Lion.  Additionally, when I have the FireWire
 connected, I also have the power cable connected.
 
 Anyway, and I have confirmed this twice on my MBP and I called a friend who
 installed Lion this morning and she confirmed the same, said same being:
 The backlight on the MBP keyboard is set to on when Lion is first installed.
 
 
 Now I want to be clear, I keep my keyboard backlight off and so it was when
 I upgraded to Lion.  However, when I looked closely at my keyboard, today, I
 discovered that while it was dimmed, it was not set as it had been before
 the upgrade.
 
 After I turn the backlight off/or to its lowest setting, the increase in
 heat went away.
 
 So, I recommend that those of you noticing a change in heat/battery drain
 confirm that your MBP keyboard backlights are set as they were before
 upgrading/installing Lion.
 
 F5 and F6 decrease and increase keyboard backlight, respectively.
 
 Mark
 
 
 
 
 
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battery life in my MacBook Pro

[Shen]

OK, before any of you are a bit trigger happy with the reply button, let me 
preface this message by saying that I understand battery life is not something 
that is easy to calculate. Each minute your MacBook can be doing different 
things and the power draw from the battery is not consistent.

Having said that, I am somewhat convinced the battery life for my MacBook using 
Lion is now somewhat less than when I had Snow Leopard. I cannot prove it of 
course with easily reproduced steps. But at the moment, as I am writing this 
email, my battery status says 20-percent, an hour and 18 minutes remaining.
If we calculate this up to 100-percent, we know this battery will last 390 
minutes.
I of course don't know what the battery life would calculate to be if 
everything is the same, and I am writing this email under SL instead of Lion.
But what I do know is that under SL, my battery can give me 10 plus hours of 
nonstop usage.
This is doing anything but running Safari. I have  mid-2010 MacBook Pro.
Again, I am not saying the battery life is definitely less, but it certainly 
feels that way. Especially when my laptop seems to run a little more warm than 
it has been in the past.

I am not seeking any answers. I just want to bring this to your attention so 
you can be aware of your MacBook's battery life under Lion.
I imagine this has a lot to do with what some people are saying about the 
Spotlight. Lion probably has a new way of indexing the files in your system and 
is caching it more actively than SL. I am not in panic mode yet. I am quite 
sure Apple will come out with an update to improve the battery life.
For the meantime, I cannot expect the 10-hours of battery life I had before 
running SL.



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Re: Totally bizarre finding with Safari 5.1 in Lion

[Shen]

I am for one, prefer to have just my home page open whenever I launch Safari. I 
don't want to see the last page or pages open.
A couple of people kept telling me the General tab under Preferences. I just 
assumed it is the Preferences under Safari. After a lille while, I reread the 
emails and realized people were telling me the General tab in System 
Preferences, not Safari Preferences.
This will take a bit of getting used to. Having to change that setting in 
System Preferences will affect other applications as well as Safari. I am not 
sure if I like this idea. I much prefer to have individual settings for each 
app.
I understand that this version of OS X is closer in functionality to iOS. But 
this decentralized way of configuring just 1 application will have a lot of 
people confused.

On Jul 24, 2011, at 11:03 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

 Hi,
 That makes sense, although i really wish that the very latest page got the 
 focus. That way i wouldn't be so confused when i open an url from twitter or 
 from a mail, and suddenly find myself someplace else entirely. hehehe.
 /Krister
 24 jul 2011 kl. 18:21 skrev Laura M:
 
 It's one of those things that's completely dependent on how you work.
 I absolutely love the new way--I've almost always got pages open with
 the intention of looking at them when I get around to it, and I only
 really quit Safari unless it crashes or I have to restart the
 computer. I was really happy when I had to quit the other day and got
 all my pages back without having to go into the history menu to do
 it.
 
 I do think it would be better, though, if you had a choice to decide
 for each application whether you wanted it to resume or not. I mean,
 you might not want it in Safari, but you might want it in TextEdit, in
 which case turning it off in system prefs isn't necessarily the best
 solution.
 
 On Jul 24, 11:50 am, Krister Ekstrom kris...@kristersplace.com
 wrote:
 Sorry for my total ignorance here, but i can't understand the point, even 
 for a sighted person to have all windows from last session or even earlier 
 sessions opened. I mean yes, if Safari has crashed, then it might be a good 
 idea to reopen all windows from last session but why always? It would make 
 sence if earlier windows opened in tabs, but like this? I just don't get it.
 /Krister
 
 24 jul 2011 kl. 00:23 skrev Tim Kilburn:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Hi,
 
 John is correct.  As mentioned in a separate thread, you can use the 
 cmd-option-q which will Quit and Discard Windows, thus allowing you to 
 startup Safari from your Homepage.  Alternatively, you can go into your 
 system Preferences, select the General pane and uncheck the box for 
 Recovering Windows.  It sometimes doesn't take effect right away, but it 
 will.  If you have problems with this, please repost and someone will 
 assist.
 
 Later…
 
 On 2011-07-23, at 2:11 PM, John Panarese wrote:
 
 Have you tried quitting Safari with, option-command-q instead of just 
 command-q?  I believe this will close all of the active Safari Windows 
 and will not have them open next time you start Safari.
 
 Take Care
 
 John Panarese
 jpanar...@gmail.com
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Shen wrote:
 
 Teresa,
 I saw that too, but it's not a checkbox. It's an option that lets Safari 
 open all the windows from the last session.
 So that doesn't work.
 Looks like 1 way of doing this is when I am done and about to quit 
 Safari, close all tabs and windows, then open my home page, then quit.
 I can't imagine there is no way to just open the home page instead of 
 all windows from last session. Otherwise, what's the point of a home 
 page?
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
 
 In the history menu in Safari, uncheck Reopen all windows from last 
 session.
 
 HTH,
 Teresa
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 10:48 AM, Shen wrote:
 
 Hello,
 Yes, you and I are having the same issue. Whenever I open Safari, I 
 prefer to have only my hope page open. But for some reason, it is now 
 opening all the pages I had open the last time I quite Safari. As far 
 as I can find, there is no setting to change that. The other little 
 quirk I have is whenever a page is done loading, VoiceOver doesn't 
 always put me in the html content and start interacting with it. I 
 have to press VO-Shift-Down Arrow to start interacting with it. The 
 second issue is not that bad, but just a little annoying.
 I sure would like to know if I can get Safari to open only my home 
 page and not all the tabs and windows I had open the last time before 
 quitting Safari.
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:52 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
 
 I wholeheartedly agree with Chris here. Calm down, folks. If there's 
 an issue, first check if there's a solution or workaround for the 
 thing, if not, ask a question here, after the frustration has 
 settled, and if that doesn't help, write a polite letter to Apples 
 Accessibility team. I've got a couple issues i'm investigating now, 
 one of them are on-topic here, and it's

Re: IMPORTANT: To MacBook Pro Lion Users

[Shen]

Unfortunately, I know this is not the issue. It would make things easier.
I know this because up until a couple of weeks ago, I didn't know that my 
keyboard brightness was set to maximum. With no light perception, how can I 
know?
And my Mac still gave me 10 hours of battery life with SL. And now with Lion, 
the bottom feels warmer much more quickly than it did with SL.
So I know this is not the issue.
I am quite sure that there is much more disc activity than before. I just don't 
know if it is Spotlight, or something else.


On Jul 24, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Missy Hoppe wrote:

 Hi! Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I've already confirmed more 
 than once that my keyboard's backlight is
 completely turned off. I have light perception, and am about 95 percent 
 definite that the backlight is not glowing at all.
 Same with the screen. I keep brightness at 0 and also enable the screen 
 curtain.
 It's an excellent suggestion, though, and I hope it helps someone.
 Missy
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 5:49 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: IMPORTANT: To MacBook Pro Lion Users
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 After posting my last message to the list regarding the increase in heat
 generated on my MBP since installing Lion and the definite lessening of
 battery life, I took a closer look at my MBP and discovered what I hope will
 prove to be useful to you.
 
 F Y I:  Until yesterday, I was running Lion on an external FireWire drive
 and did not notice the increase in heat since the computer is always sitting
 on my desk when running Lion.  Additionally, when I have the FireWire
 connected, I also have the power cable connected.
 
 Anyway, and I have confirmed this twice on my MBP and I called a friend who
 installed Lion this morning and she confirmed the same, said same being:
 The backlight on the MBP keyboard is set to on when Lion is first installed.
 
 
 Now I want to be clear, I keep my keyboard backlight off and so it was when
 I upgraded to Lion.  However, when I looked closely at my keyboard, today, I
 discovered that while it was dimmed, it was not set as it had been before
 the upgrade.
 
 After I turn the backlight off/or to its lowest setting, the increase in
 heat went away.
 
 So, I recommend that those of you noticing a change in heat/battery drain
 confirm that your MBP keyboard backlights are set as they were before
 upgrading/installing Lion.
 
 F5 and F6 decrease and increase keyboard backlight, respectively.
 
 Mark
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: conversations in new mail

[Shen]

There is still the question about sorting your messages.
If you sort your messages by date in 1 order, messages in conversations are 
sorted in reverse. For example, if all your messages are sorted in ascending 
order, expand a conversation and the messages in that conversation are sorted 
in descending.
Personally, when I expand a conversation, I prefer to start from the first 
message of the thread, not at the last. I prefer to read a conversation from 
the beginning forward instead from from the end backward.
This was not the case in SL. Can't figure out why they decide to reverse it 
inside a conversation.
Am I the only person that likes it the previous way?

On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:17 PM, Marc Workman wrote:

 Don't bother with a hot spot on the mailbox list.  You can simply shift tab 
 and tab to go back and forth between the mailbox list and the message table.
 
 I did end up setting a hot spot for the search field since, unlike in SL, you 
 don't seem to be able to tab into the search field.
 
 Best,
 
 Marc
 - Original Message - From: Chris Westbrook westbch...@gmail.com
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 8:46 PM
 Subject: Re: conversations in new mail
 
 
 No, I just tried it, it works in the regular view, with the caveat that you 
 must use vo+up and down arrow to move through the messages when in the 
 message content area.  also if you set a hot spot on the mailbox list I think 
 you can get there a lot quicker.
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
 Hi Shameless,
 A small caveat here.  THis seems to only really work in Classic view, but is 
 otherwise very sound advice.  I appreciate it.
 Best and thanks,
 Zack.
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 7:37 PM, Shameless FanGirl wrote:
 
 You don't, and can in fact merely tab over once you're sitting on the 
 thread you want to view. This will get you to a list of messages within 
 that thread, from where you can either use left and right, or up and down 
 arrows to navigate through them. To return to the threads list, either use 
 VO left arrow, or shift tab. For the record, to return to the list of 
 inboxes, stop interacting with the message list, (for me, this requires two 
 presses of VO shift up arrow), and VO left twice to return to your list of 
 mailboxes.
 
 I HTH guys
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
 Hi CHris,
 The area you mention is accessible if you don't expand a conversation, but 
 instead stop interacting and move right.  I'm not sure what goes on 
 visually in conversation view, but it occurs to me you might not need to 
 expand them all that often actually.  Experimentation is in order.
 Best,
 Zack.
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Chris Westbrook wrote:
 
 I just wanted to say I'm getting used to the new conversation view in 
 mail.  The way i do it now is to expand a conversation I'm interested in 
 and then down arrow to the first message.  Then I do a vo+j to go to the 
 preview pane and then read the message, then I either delete it or do a 
 vo+j again to go to the message list to select another message. My 
 question is that it seems that if you're not focused on a message within 
 the conversation, if you stop interacting with the message list and then 
 vo+right arrow a couple of times the message content area displays all 
 the messages in a conversation, one per line.  I tried to set a hotspot 
 there but I can't get to it from the message list.  IS there a quick hot 
 key to get to the area I am thinking of?  This isn't as bad as I thought 
 it was going to be now that I have gotten used to it.
 
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Re: Totally bizarre finding with Safari 5.1 in Lion

[Shen]

Hello,
Yes, you and I are having the same issue. Whenever I open Safari, I prefer to 
have only my hope page open. But for some reason, it is now opening all the 
pages I had open the last time I quite Safari. As far as I can find, there is 
no setting to change that. The other little quirk I have is whenever a page is 
done loading, VoiceOver doesn't always put me in the html content and start 
interacting with it. I have to press VO-Shift-Down Arrow to start interacting 
with it. The second issue is not that bad, but just a little annoying.
I sure would like to know if I can get Safari to open only my home page and not 
all the tabs and windows I had open the last time before quitting Safari.

On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:52 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

 I wholeheartedly agree with Chris here. Calm down, folks. If there's an 
 issue, first check if there's a solution or workaround for the thing, if not, 
 ask a question here, after the frustration has settled, and if that doesn't 
 help, write a polite letter to Apples Accessibility team. I've got a couple 
 issues i'm investigating now, one of them are on-topic here, and it's about 
 how i go about having Safari not to open all the pages i had up last every 
 time i open a new page. It makes sense when first starting Safari directly, 
 but if there's a page i want to read, i don't want to have to close all the 
 other pages that pop up and taking focus away from the page i want to read. 
 Surely there must be a setting somewhere, only i can't find it.
 /Krister
 
 23 jul 2011 kl. 03:39 skrev Chris Westbrook:
 
 And in case anyone actually cares, this has nothing to do with vo or lion.  
 The reason Jaws won't download on safari is that by default, freedom 
 scientific offers direct ftp links to their downloads and safari apparently 
 can't handle direct ftp links.  If you REALLY want to download Jaws from a 
 mac, FS offers a page for http downloads.  Frankly, the whole item chooser 
 thing really doesn't bother me much as the web roder has always worked for 
 me and that is for the web.  I am glad I upgraded, and I'm even getting used 
 to the new mail.  I think we all just need to calm down a bit.  As far as 
 apple not caring, just because they don't talk to us doesn't mean they don't 
 care.  They don't talk to anyone, it's as simple as that.  Missy, I really 
 hope you get your power situation straightened out, but I don't think that 
 is a lion issue either.  Calm down everyone.  :) 
 Chris Westbrook
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Matthew Campbell wrote:
 
 Hi guys.
 Just to add a little to what Carolyn said, it's been two days since Lion 
 came out so don't expect these problems to just magically go away.
 If they are making some of you guys that angry, switch back to SL. It can 
 be done easily enough if you have a recent backup.
 Email off list please if you need help doing this seeing as this is 
 starting to become not VO related anymore.
 Thanks and for those that need too, chill!
 
 On 2011-07-22, at 9:16 PM, carolyn Haas wrote:
 
 Hi Chris:
 Do yourself and all of us a favor:
 Step away from the computer and chill for a while before writing a 
 pointless rave like this.  No one really needs to hear it.
 
 
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
 
 Not exactly that anyone would really want! to download this, but, why in 
 the heck is it, that if I go to either
 
 http://www.freedomscientific.com
 
 Or:
 
 http://www.hj.com
 
 Take your pick, for one, I am finding the item chooser stuff happening 
 here as well, if you do vo+I then type d o w... stick with me, it gets 
 even weirder than item choser stuff... I'm just setting some ground...  
 anyway, if you hit vo+i, then do d o w, you won't get the downloads link, 
 yet if you use vo+U and go to links in the roter, then! do it, it works, 
 then go to jaws for windows screen reading software, then try to find the 
 jaws 12 download link, if you hit vo+space on that link, Safari says the 
 page cannot be found.  Now, here's the weird part.  If I try this from my 
 xp pro sp3 machine with either I E, or Firefox, then hit enter on the 
 link, same network l A n, same public I P address, same internet 
 connection, etc. same d h c p, same d n s, same router, nothing changes 
 but the platform, the download works like a charm!  Let me say this, no 
 jokes.  I've had a really rough day, and quite frankly am not in the mood 
 for the smart mouth comments, like, well yeah, Jobs hates FS so he 
 blocked you from the site, or why would you compare jaws to VO, or want 
 to download the fish... you may have a point, but no you really don't, 
 OK.  This isn't about one screen reader being better than another.  this 
 is about the item chooser, and the router, and the downloading in Safari 
 consistently across many pages be very inconsistently odd in behavior.  
 Take it as such.  If you can't offer anything resourcesful and just wanna 
 throw lookie jokes around, look, I'm not 

Re: Totally bizarre finding with Safari 5.1 in Lion

[Shen]

Teresa,
I saw that too, but it's not a checkbox. It's an option that lets Safari open 
all the windows from the last session.
So that doesn't work.
Looks like 1 way of doing this is when I am done and about to quit Safari, 
close all tabs and windows, then open my home page, then quit.
I can't imagine there is no way to just open the home page instead of all 
windows from last session. Otherwise, what's the point of a home page?

On Jul 23, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

 In the history menu in Safari, uncheck Reopen all windows from last session.
 
 HTH,
 Teresa
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 10:48 AM, Shen wrote:
 
 Hello,
 Yes, you and I are having the same issue. Whenever I open Safari, I prefer 
 to have only my hope page open. But for some reason, it is now opening all 
 the pages I had open the last time I quite Safari. As far as I can find, 
 there is no setting to change that. The other little quirk I have is 
 whenever a page is done loading, VoiceOver doesn't always put me in the html 
 content and start interacting with it. I have to press VO-Shift-Down Arrow 
 to start interacting with it. The second issue is not that bad, but just a 
 little annoying.
 I sure would like to know if I can get Safari to open only my home page and 
 not all the tabs and windows I had open the last time before quitting Safari.
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:52 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
 
 I wholeheartedly agree with Chris here. Calm down, folks. If there's an 
 issue, first check if there's a solution or workaround for the thing, if 
 not, ask a question here, after the frustration has settled, and if that 
 doesn't help, write a polite letter to Apples Accessibility team. I've got 
 a couple issues i'm investigating now, one of them are on-topic here, and 
 it's about how i go about having Safari not to open all the pages i had up 
 last every time i open a new page. It makes sense when first starting 
 Safari directly, but if there's a page i want to read, i don't want to have 
 to close all the other pages that pop up and taking focus away from the 
 page i want to read. Surely there must be a setting somewhere, only i can't 
 find it.
 /Krister
 
 23 jul 2011 kl. 03:39 skrev Chris Westbrook:
 
 And in case anyone actually cares, this has nothing to do with vo or lion. 
  The reason Jaws won't download on safari is that by default, freedom 
 scientific offers direct ftp links to their downloads and safari 
 apparently can't handle direct ftp links.  If you REALLY want to download 
 Jaws from a mac, FS offers a page for http downloads.  Frankly, the whole 
 item chooser thing really doesn't bother me much as the web roder has 
 always worked for me and that is for the web.  I am glad I upgraded, and 
 I'm even getting used to the new mail.  I think we all just need to calm 
 down a bit.  As far as apple not caring, just because they don't talk to 
 us doesn't mean they don't care.  They don't talk to anyone, it's as 
 simple as that.  Missy, I really hope you get your power situation 
 straightened out, but I don't think that is a lion issue either.  Calm 
 down everyone.  :) 
 Chris Westbrook
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Matthew Campbell wrote:
 
 Hi guys.
 Just to add a little to what Carolyn said, it's been two days since Lion 
 came out so don't expect these problems to just magically go away.
 If they are making some of you guys that angry, switch back to SL. It can 
 be done easily enough if you have a recent backup.
 Email off list please if you need help doing this seeing as this is 
 starting to become not VO related anymore.
 Thanks and for those that need too, chill!
 
 On 2011-07-22, at 9:16 PM, carolyn Haas wrote:
 
 Hi Chris:
 Do yourself and all of us a favor:
 Step away from the computer and chill for a while before writing a 
 pointless rave like this.  No one really needs to hear it.
 
 
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
 
 Not exactly that anyone would really want! to download this, but, why 
 in the heck is it, that if I go to either
 
 http://www.freedomscientific.com
 
 Or:
 
 http://www.hj.com
 
 Take your pick, for one, I am finding the item chooser stuff happening 
 here as well, if you do vo+I then type d o w... stick with me, it gets 
 even weirder than item choser stuff... I'm just setting some ground...  
 anyway, if you hit vo+i, then do d o w, you won't get the downloads 
 link, yet if you use vo+U and go to links in the roter, then! do it, it 
 works, then go to jaws for windows screen reading software, then try to 
 find the jaws 12 download link, if you hit vo+space on that link, 
 Safari says the page cannot be found.  Now, here's the weird part.  If 
 I try this from my xp pro sp3 machine with either I E, or Firefox, then 
 hit enter on the link, same network l A n, same public I P address, 
 same internet connection, etc. same d h c p, same d n s, same router, 
 nothing changes but the platform, the download works like a charm!  Let 
 me say

Re: conversations in new mail

[Shen]

Hi Zack,
Thanks for that. I found it in Preferences under the View tab. It's so strange 
you have a sort submenu under the View menu, bar and then here is another 
checkbox for sorting messages in Preferences.
Although the wording for the checkbox is not very clear if it is meant for 
messages inside a conversation.

On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Zachary Kline wrote:

 Hi Shen and all,
 The sorting of conversations can be toggled in Preferences, actually.  Look 
 at the bottom of the view tab for Show Most Recent Message at the Top.  
 Uncheck that and you'll get the old behavior.
 Best,
 Zack.
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 1:14 AM, Shen wrote:
 
 There is still the question about sorting your messages.
 If you sort your messages by date in 1 order, messages in conversations are 
 sorted in reverse. For example, if all your messages are sorted in ascending 
 order, expand a conversation and the messages in that conversation are 
 sorted in descending.
 Personally, when I expand a conversation, I prefer to start from the first 
 message of the thread, not at the last. I prefer to read a conversation from 
 the beginning forward instead from from the end backward.
 This was not the case in SL. Can't figure out why they decide to reverse it 
 inside a conversation.
 Am I the only person that likes it the previous way?
 
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:17 PM, Marc Workman wrote:
 
 Don't bother with a hot spot on the mailbox list.  You can simply shift tab 
 and tab to go back and forth between the mailbox list and the message table.
 
 I did end up setting a hot spot for the search field since, unlike in SL, 
 you don't seem to be able to tab into the search field.
 
 Best,
 
 Marc
 - Original Message - From: Chris Westbrook westbch...@gmail.com
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 8:46 PM
 Subject: Re: conversations in new mail
 
 
 No, I just tried it, it works in the regular view, with the caveat that you 
 must use vo+up and down arrow to move through the messages when in the 
 message content area.  also if you set a hot spot on the mailbox list I 
 think you can get there a lot quicker.
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
 Hi Shameless,
 A small caveat here.  THis seems to only really work in Classic view, but 
 is otherwise very sound advice.  I appreciate it.
 Best and thanks,
 Zack.
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 7:37 PM, Shameless FanGirl wrote:
 
 You don't, and can in fact merely tab over once you're sitting on the 
 thread you want to view. This will get you to a list of messages within 
 that thread, from where you can either use left and right, or up and down 
 arrows to navigate through them. To return to the threads list, either 
 use VO left arrow, or shift tab. For the record, to return to the list of 
 inboxes, stop interacting with the message list, (for me, this requires 
 two presses of VO shift up arrow), and VO left twice to return to your 
 list of mailboxes.
 
 I HTH guys
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
 Hi CHris,
 The area you mention is accessible if you don't expand a conversation, 
 but instead stop interacting and move right.  I'm not sure what goes on 
 visually in conversation view, but it occurs to me you might not need to 
 expand them all that often actually.  Experimentation is in order.
 Best,
 Zack.
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Chris Westbrook wrote:
 
 I just wanted to say I'm getting used to the new conversation view in 
 mail.  The way i do it now is to expand a conversation I'm interested 
 in and then down arrow to the first message.  Then I do a vo+j to go to 
 the preview pane and then read the message, then I either delete it or 
 do a vo+j again to go to the message list to select another message. My 
 question is that it seems that if you're not focused on a message 
 within the conversation, if you stop interacting with the message list 
 and then vo+right arrow a couple of times the message content area 
 displays all the messages in a conversation, one per line.  I tried to 
 set a hotspot there but I can't get to it from the message list.  IS 
 there a quick hot key to get to the area I am thinking of?  This isn't 
 as bad as I thought it was going to be now that I have gotten used to 
 it.
 
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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups MacVisionaries group.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
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 For more options, visit this group at 
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Re: Totally bizarre finding with Safari 5.1 in Lion

[Shen]

Hi,
Thanks for that tip, I will remember to do that from now on. Although I really 
don't understand why Apple would change this behavior from before. And there is 
no option under Safari menu to close all windows and quit.
I think this is going to be a problem. Say you go to a website, and for some 
reason, Safari crashes, and it is not responding. This has happened to me more 
often with Safari than any other browser I've used.
You need to force quit Safari in order to close it. The next time you open 
Safari, guess what, it's going to open the last page it had, which is the page 
that crashed, you are stuck.
Unless there is a way to open Safari without opening any windows, similar to 
the way if you hold down the Options key while opening iTunes, you will be 
prompted for a library.
I tried this, no luck.


On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:23 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

 Hi,
 
 John is correct.  As mentioned in a separate thread, you can use the 
 cmd-option-q which will Quit and Discard Windows, thus allowing you to 
 startup Safari from your Homepage.  Alternatively, you can go into your 
 system Preferences, select the General pane and uncheck the box for 
 Recovering Windows.  It sometimes doesn't take effect right away, but it 
 will.  If you have problems with this, please repost and someone will assist.
 
 Later…
 
 On 2011-07-23, at 2:11 PM, John Panarese wrote:
 
  Have you tried quitting Safari with, option-command-q instead of just 
 command-q?  I believe this will close all of the active Safari Windows and 
 will not have them open next time you start Safari.
 
 Take Care
 
 John Panarese
 jpanar...@gmail.com
 
 
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Shen wrote:
 
 Teresa,
 I saw that too, but it's not a checkbox. It's an option that lets Safari 
 open all the windows from the last session.
 So that doesn't work.
 Looks like 1 way of doing this is when I am done and about to quit Safari, 
 close all tabs and windows, then open my home page, then quit.
 I can't imagine there is no way to just open the home page instead of all 
 windows from last session. Otherwise, what's the point of a home page?
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
 
 In the history menu in Safari, uncheck Reopen all windows from last 
 session.
 
 HTH,
 Teresa
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 10:48 AM, Shen wrote:
 
 Hello,
 Yes, you and I are having the same issue. Whenever I open Safari, I 
 prefer to have only my hope page open. But for some reason, it is now 
 opening all the pages I had open the last time I quite Safari. As far as 
 I can find, there is no setting to change that. The other little quirk I 
 have is whenever a page is done loading, VoiceOver doesn't always put me 
 in the html content and start interacting with it. I have to press 
 VO-Shift-Down Arrow to start interacting with it. The second issue is not 
 that bad, but just a little annoying.
 I sure would like to know if I can get Safari to open only my home page 
 and not all the tabs and windows I had open the last time before quitting 
 Safari.
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:52 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
 
 I wholeheartedly agree with Chris here. Calm down, folks. If there's an 
 issue, first check if there's a solution or workaround for the thing, if 
 not, ask a question here, after the frustration has settled, and if that 
 doesn't help, write a polite letter to Apples Accessibility team. I've 
 got a couple issues i'm investigating now, one of them are on-topic 
 here, and it's about how i go about having Safari not to open all the 
 pages i had up last every time i open a new page. It makes sense when 
 first starting Safari directly, but if there's a page i want to read, i 
 don't want to have to close all the other pages that pop up and taking 
 focus away from the page i want to read. Surely there must be a setting 
 somewhere, only i can't find it.
 /Krister
 
 23 jul 2011 kl. 03:39 skrev Chris Westbrook:
 
 And in case anyone actually cares, this has nothing to do with vo or 
 lion.  The reason Jaws won't download on safari is that by default, 
 freedom scientific offers direct ftp links to their downloads and 
 safari apparently can't handle direct ftp links.  If you REALLY want to 
 download Jaws from a mac, FS offers a page for http downloads.  
 Frankly, the whole item chooser thing really doesn't bother me much as 
 the web roder has always worked for me and that is for the web.  I am 
 glad I upgraded, and I'm even getting used to the new mail.  I think we 
 all just need to calm down a bit.  As far as apple not caring, just 
 because they don't talk to us doesn't mean they don't care.  They don't 
 talk to anyone, it's as simple as that.  Missy, I really hope you get 
 your power situation straightened out, but I don't think that is a lion 
 issue either.  Calm down everyone.  :) 
 Chris Westbrook
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Matthew Campbell wrote:
 
 Hi guys.
 Just to add a little to what Carolyn said, it's been two days since 
 Lion came

Re: Totally bizarre finding with Safari 5.1 in Lion

[Shen]

Hi,
I keep hoping I find this option somewhere hidden, but in Lion, this option is 
not to be found.
You may be smart to stay with Snow Leopard.
How is it that this option is available inSnow Leopard, but not in Lion, yet 
the Safari is the same version?
This is becoming quite a mystery.


On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Andre Nuno Soares wrote:

 Hello,
 
 In Snow Leopard, Safari 5.1 now has the option in Preferences, General, 
 Safari opens with that you can set to:
 All windows from last session or
 A new window.
 
 This last one means Safari doesn't remember the tabs and windows you had 
 opened in the previous session.
 
 Sorry if this has nothing to do with Safari's preferences in Lion... I 
 decided to wait a few days and let the dust settle.
 
 
 HTH,
 André
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 11:23 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 John is correct.  As mentioned in a separate thread, you can use the 
 cmd-option-q which will Quit and Discard Windows, thus allowing you to 
 startup Safari from your Homepage.  Alternatively, you can go into your 
 system Preferences, select the General pane and uncheck the box for 
 Recovering Windows.  It sometimes doesn't take effect right away, but it 
 will.  If you have problems with this, please repost and someone will assist.
 
 Later…
 
 On 2011-07-23, at 2:11 PM, John Panarese wrote:
 
 Have you tried quitting Safari with, option-command-q instead of just 
 command-q?  I believe this will close all of the active Safari Windows and 
 will not have them open next time you start Safari.
 
 Take Care
 
 John Panarese
 jpanar...@gmail.com
 
 
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Shen wrote:
 
 Teresa,
 I saw that too, but it's not a checkbox. It's an option that lets Safari 
 open all the windows from the last session.
 So that doesn't work.
 Looks like 1 way of doing this is when I am done and about to quit Safari, 
 close all tabs and windows, then open my home page, then quit.
 I can't imagine there is no way to just open the home page instead of all 
 windows from last session. Otherwise, what's the point of a home page?
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
 
 In the history menu in Safari, uncheck Reopen all windows from last 
 session.
 
 HTH,
 Teresa
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 10:48 AM, Shen wrote:
 
 Hello,
 Yes, you and I are having the same issue. Whenever I open Safari, I 
 prefer to have only my hope page open. But for some reason, it is now 
 opening all the pages I had open the last time I quite Safari. As far as 
 I can find, there is no setting to change that. The other little quirk I 
 have is whenever a page is done loading, VoiceOver doesn't always put me 
 in the html content and start interacting with it. I have to press 
 VO-Shift-Down Arrow to start interacting with it. The second issue is 
 not that bad, but just a little annoying.
 I sure would like to know if I can get Safari to open only my home page 
 and not all the tabs and windows I had open the last time before 
 quitting Safari.
 
 On Jul 23, 2011, at 3:52 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
 
 I wholeheartedly agree with Chris here. Calm down, folks. If there's an 
 issue, first check if there's a solution or workaround for the thing, 
 if not, ask a question here, after the frustration has settled, and if 
 that doesn't help, write a polite letter to Apples Accessibility team. 
 I've got a couple issues i'm investigating now, one of them are 
 on-topic here, and it's about how i go about having Safari not to open 
 all the pages i had up last every time i open a new page. It makes 
 sense when first starting Safari directly, but if there's a page i want 
 to read, i don't want to have to close all the other pages that pop up 
 and taking focus away from the page i want to read. Surely there must 
 be a setting somewhere, only i can't find it.
 /Krister
 
 23 jul 2011 kl. 03:39 skrev Chris Westbrook:
 
 And in case anyone actually cares, this has nothing to do with vo or 
 lion.  The reason Jaws won't download on safari is that by default, 
 freedom scientific offers direct ftp links to their downloads and 
 safari apparently can't handle direct ftp links.  If you REALLY want 
 to download Jaws from a mac, FS offers a page for http downloads.  
 Frankly, the whole item chooser thing really doesn't bother me much as 
 the web roder has always worked for me and that is for the web.  I am 
 glad I upgraded, and I'm even getting used to the new mail.  I think 
 we all just need to calm down a bit.  As far as apple not caring, just 
 because they don't talk to us doesn't mean they don't care.  They 
 don't talk to anyone, it's as simple as that.  Missy, I really hope 
 you get your power situation straightened out, but I don't think that 
 is a lion issue either.  Calm down everyone.  :) 
 Chris Westbrook
 
 
 
 
 On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Matthew Campbell wrote:
 
 Hi guys.
 Just to add a little to what Carolyn said, it's been two days since 
 Lion came out so don't expect these problems to just

Re: OS X Lion and VoiceOver issues

[Shen]

Yes, exactly.
You have no indication whether the download started or whether it is a broken 
link.
It seems to be mimicking the same behavior as Internet Explorer 9.
I much prefer having the download window open and show me the downloads instead 
of navigating to the toolbar and clicking on the button.
Call me old-fashioned,


On Jul 21, 2011, at 5:24 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

 I somewhat disagree with Buddy.  OK, the download window is accessible to get 
 to and once there works, but, if you click a link and a file starts 
 downoading, you you hear is the link was pressed.  You get no indication that 
 it started downloading a file, so you just have to assume, then go look if 
 you're so inclined.  Definitely! a back-peddle in my opinion.
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: Buddy Brannan bu...@brannan.name
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:16 PM
 Subject: Re: OS X Lion and VoiceOver issues
 
 
 I agree completely with the mail sluggishness issues, particular if a message 
 is very long or a conversation thread has more than a few messages in it. 
 However, I don't see the downloads thing as an accessibility issue at all. 
 The button is perfectly accessible, there's no trouble finding it, and once 
 opened, the download window looks just like it did before. It's just 
 different from the previous version, but IMO, no less accessible.
 --
 Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
 Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
 
 
 
 On Jul 21, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
 Dear MacVisionaries,
 I've just sent the following letter to Apple Accessibility.  I hope it 
 provides a decent summation of some of the issues we've been experiencing 
 with the new OS, and that it will give them a better idea of what sorts of 
 things should be looked into when they upgrade the product.
 I'll be sure to forward any response I receive.
 Best,
 Zack.
 Begin forwarded message:
 
 From: Zachary Kline kli...@onid.orst.edu
 Subject: OS X Lion and VoiceOver issues
 Date: July 21, 2011 1:58:13 PM PDT
 To: Apple Accessibility accessibil...@apple.com
 
 Dear Apple Accessibility,
 I have recently upgraded my mid 2010 macbook pro to Lion, and have for the 
 most part been quite pleased with its performance.  However, there are a 
 few troubling developments which degrade the overall quality of the 
 experience.
 THe Launchpad and Mission Control features seem mostly accessible, but 
 there are some omissions which render them less useful than they could be.  
 There seems no way to move applications into folders, or indeed at all, 
 using VoiceOver.  Drag and drop does not do the expected thing. Mission 
 Control is somewhat better, but Spaces seem impractical because there is 
 neither any way to delete them nor to move between apps in a single space.
 Safari and Mail also present accessibility problems.  Safari's new 
 downloads popup is not ideal accessibility-wise, and while it works after a 
 fashion the old downloads window was preferable.  Similarly, Mail seems 
 sluggish, often reporting that it is busy, especially in the new layout. 
 Drag and drop is inconsistent here as well: the Favorites bar can be added 
 to with the new shortcuts, but Voiceover refuses to drag items which have a 
 press action, thus requiring the old mouse toggling shortcut to remove them.
 These are a representative sampling of the various issues I've encountered 
 in using Lion with VoiceOver.  I hope that at least some of these may be 
 fixed in the near future, as this would greatly improve the usability of 
 the system.
 Yours sincerely,
 Zack Kline.
 
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Re: Getting Nowhere Trying to Burn Lion on DVD; Help?!

[Shen]

Teresa,
Yes, you did miss a couple of steps. Here is what I did.
1. You were right about finding the InstallMacLion.app open the shortcut menu 
and click show package content.
2. Find the folder called Shared Resources.
3. Inside that folder, you will find a file called InstallESD.dmg.
4. Copy that file to a new location such as the desktop.
5. I think you know the rest. Launch disc Utilities and burn the dmg file to a 
dvd.

Enjoy

On Jul 22, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

 Hi, all,
 
 Well, clearly, I've made a decidedly wrong turn here. I may have done 
 something entirely wrong or missed something, so here is what I've done.
 
 I had to download Lion again, as it disappeared on me in the first go-round. 
 Once I downloaded it, I found Install Lion.app in the apps folder. I used the 
 contextual menu to find the  show contents option, and did not find a dmg 
 file. I then chose 'burn to disc and it did that.
 
 I rebooted and pressed C for a number of seconds once I heard the startup 
 sound from the Mac Mini's external speaker. I got the usual login screen. I 
 tried it again with the same result.
 
 I had doubts that a .app file/folder would burn as an image, and I am 
 thinking I did not burn an install file to the disc.
 
 What now?
 
 TiA,
 Teresa
 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: Getting Nowhere Trying to Burn Lion on DVD; Help?!

[Shen]

I did not use the Burn option in the shortcut menu. I just followed
the steps from an article from a website. I assume since they said to
use Disc Utility, the burn option probably does something else.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think the burn option in the
shortcut menu simply takes what you have and put it on a DVD disc,
retaining the structure and filename.
This is different than burning a disc image, which is what you need to do.
The difference is that if you use the Burn option in the shortcut
menu, the dvd will have only 1 file name InstallESD.dmg.
But if you use Disc Utility and use the Burn feature, it will see that
InstallESD.dmg is an image file, and will burn the files within that
image file to a disc. So that when it is done, and you open the DVD,
you will see files like InstallMacLion.app and other files.
Disc Utility is not that confusing. Once you open it, navigate to the
table of discs. Highlight your DVD burner. Next, go to the toolbar,
and click on the Burn button.
It will prompt you for the image file. Point to it, and then click Burn.
Simple as that.



On 7/22/11, Missy Hoppe melis...@fuse.net wrote:
 that's what I ended up doing. Disc utility was really confusing me, so I
 asked myself that very same question; it seemed to
 me as though the process was being made more difficult than necessary. So, I
 coppied the .dmg file to a flash drive and then
 selected it and burned it from the applications menu. I'm assuming it worked
 as expected, but haven't had an opportunity to
 test it.
 Missy


   _

 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
 Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:59 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: Getting Nowhere Trying to Burn Lion on DVD; Help?!


 Thing is, how do you burn the file to a DVD within disk Utilities?  Can one
 not just focus on the file and open the shortcut
 menu and click burn from there?


 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

 Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

 Skype name:
 barefootedray

 Facebook:
 facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1 http://m.facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1?refid=0



 On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:25 AM, Shen wrote:


 Teresa,
 Yes, you did miss a couple of steps. Here is what I did.
 1. You were right about finding the InstallMacLion.app open the shortcut
 menu and click show package content.
 2. Find the folder called Shared Resources.
 3. Inside that folder, you will find a file called InstallESD.dmg.
 4. Copy that file to a new location such as the desktop.
 5. I think you know the rest. Launch disc Utilities and burn the dmg file to
 a dvd.

 Enjoy

 On Jul 22, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:



 Hi, all,



 Well, clearly, I've made a decidedly wrong turn here. I may have done
 something entirely wrong or missed something, so here
 is what I've done.



 I had to download Lion again, as it disappeared on me in the first go-round.
 Once I downloaded it, I found Install Lion.app
 in the apps folder. I used the contextual menu to find the  show contents
 option, and did not find a dmg file. I then chose
 'burn to disc and it did that.



 I rebooted and pressed C for a number of seconds once I heard the startup
 sound from the Mac Mini's external speaker. I got
 the usual login screen. I tried it again with the same result.



 I had doubts that a .app file/folder would burn as an image, and I am
 thinking I did not burn an install file to the disc.



 What now?



 TiA,


 Teresa



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