Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Zack Medow]

Sad to hear it, but not unexpected given the supply chain crisis.

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 12:22 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> Been a good while since an update, so here is a bad one:  the ETA on
> Charlies was pushed from Jan 2022 to "on hold indefinitely".  Just no room
> in the production schedule / material procurement to make a new model
> happen in the scheduled future.  This is per James at Riv - sounds highly
> likely that it will be picked back up once there's bandwidth but just not
> being actively pursued until then.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 7 November 2020 at 18:33:09 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I haven't heard evidence of more than the two prototypes (though I'm far
>> from "in the know" as well), the one which is silver-ish might be the color
>> but I don't see any blue in it..
>>
>> Interesting that that page notes the frameset, since I was last told they
>> would only be offered as completes. Perhaps the difficulties in putting
>> together a parts package right now changed their minds since it would push
>> the date they could sell them out too far.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Chris L]

I've said many times that I wish my Hunqapillar was tig welded, powder 
coated a single neutral color and half the price.  

Colored head-tubes and splashy decals aren't my thing and are something I 
have to tolerate since nobody else* makes what I want in a bike. 

I do like the attention to detail, quality construction and overall good 
design of Rivendells.   

* There are similar options out there but most either have too short a 
top-tube or disk brakes, or both, neither of which works for me.  

On Wednesday, June 16, 2021 at 4:02:23 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> There have indeed been some cool collaboration frames, though I feel like 
> they all suffer from the same sales-related issue as Rivs themselves often 
> have: they're ahead of their time.  Rivendells from 5 or 10 years ago would 
> fly off the shelves today compared to their sales at the time, because 
> their features and geometry are now the hot thing.  I feel like bikes like 
> the Soma San Marcos suffered in the same way.  I love that Grant keeps 
> pushing forward with his newest ideas rather than making bucks off the 
> older ideas.  
>
> Totally agree that the lack of a TIG medium-duty bike is, at least to me, 
> a huge gaping hole in the lineup which maybe isn't as attractive to fill to 
> Riv as it seems like it would be to me. I feel like a TIG version of a 
> Hillborne, with the longer front center of the Platypus, would be basically 
> the perfect everyday bike. Nothing really exists like it currently. Nothing 
> like the Charlie exists either (swoopy tube road bike with long wheelbase?  
> Never seen it before), which is why I'm real sad that the world will have 
> to wait a bit longer for it.  
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 16 June 2021 at 13:50:40 UTC-7 Lucky wrote:
>
>> Grant has designed more than a few bikes for other companies. The one I 
>> can think of off the top of my head is the Brooklyn Bike Company Driggs. 
>> But I know what you’re saying…there’s something about that Rivendell name 
>> on the bike.
>> Funny enough, I recall that back in 1994 or so, when I bought my 
>> Atlantis, it was because I reallwanted a Riv, but I just didn’t have the 
>> scratch for a “real Rivendell AR”. 
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2021, at 13:17, Tom Wyland  wrote:
>>
>> If I was Riv President for a day, I would ponder if adding a lower-cost 
>> all-rounder bike would cut into sales of the other models. Clem and 
>> Roadini  (tigged lower-cost frames) are on the rough terrain and road ends 
>> of the spectrum.  The premium equivalents are the Hillibikes  and AHH.  All 
>> of the bikes in the all-rounder territory are the premium type, and there 
>> are quite a few models that functionally overlap (Platy, Sam, Atlantis, Joe 
>> Appa). Adding a lower-cost alternative for the already overlapping premium 
>> models would just cut into the sales of those without further 
>> differentiation. 
>>
>>
>> I would partner with a brand that made lower-cost frames and offer those 
>> without Riv branding.  Then capture all of those other brand's customers 
>> and offer them to ladder up to a Rivendell.  Basically use the lower cost 
>> brand as a channel to sell the more premium Rivs.  And you wouldn't dilute 
>> your brand with a lower-priced model with little differentiation.  
>> Companies like Handsome or Soma might make sense.
>>
>> The good news is 1) I'm not Riv President for a Day and 2) due to the 
>> current bike boom they'll sell whatever bikes they ordered in an hour.  
>> Boom.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[J S]

Tom, that was done years ago with the Bleriot.

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 4:17 PM Tom Wyland  wrote:

> If I was Riv President for a day, I would ponder if adding a lower-cost
> all-rounder bike would cut into sales of the other models. Clem and
> Roadini  (tigged lower-cost frames) are on the rough terrain and road ends
> of the spectrum.  The premium equivalents are the Hillibikes  and AHH.  All
> of the bikes in the all-rounder territory are the premium type, and there
> are quite a few models that functionally overlap (Platy, Sam, Atlantis, Joe
> Appa). Adding a lower-cost alternative for the already overlapping premium
> models would just cut into the sales of those without further
> differentiation.
>
> I would partner with a brand that made lower-cost frames and offer those
> without Riv branding.  Then capture all of those other brand's customers
> and offer them to ladder up to a Rivendell.  Basically use the lower cost
> brand as a channel to sell the more premium Rivs.  And you wouldn't dilute
> your brand with a lower-priced model with little differentiation.
> Companies like Handsome or Soma might make sense.
>
> The good news is 1) I'm not Riv President for a Day and 2) due to the
> current bike boom they'll sell whatever bikes they ordered in an hour.
> Boom.
>
> Tom
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

There have indeed been some cool collaboration frames, though I feel like 
they all suffer from the same sales-related issue as Rivs themselves often 
have: they're ahead of their time.  Rivendells from 5 or 10 years ago would 
fly off the shelves today compared to their sales at the time, because 
their features and geometry are now the hot thing.  I feel like bikes like 
the Soma San Marcos suffered in the same way.  I love that Grant keeps 
pushing forward with his newest ideas rather than making bucks off the 
older ideas.  

Totally agree that the lack of a TIG medium-duty bike is, at least to me, a 
huge gaping hole in the lineup which maybe isn't as attractive to fill to 
Riv as it seems like it would be to me. I feel like a TIG version of a 
Hillborne, with the longer front center of the Platypus, would be basically 
the perfect everyday bike. Nothing really exists like it currently. Nothing 
like the Charlie exists either (swoopy tube road bike with long wheelbase?  
Never seen it before), which is why I'm real sad that the world will have 
to wait a bit longer for it.  





On Wednesday, 16 June 2021 at 13:50:40 UTC-7 Lucky wrote:

> Grant has designed more than a few bikes for other companies. The one I 
> can think of off the top of my head is the Brooklyn Bike Company Driggs. 
> But I know what you’re saying…there’s something about that Rivendell name 
> on the bike.
> Funny enough, I recall that back in 1994 or so, when I bought my Atlantis, 
> it was because I reallwanted a Riv, but I just didn’t have the scratch for 
> a “real Rivendell AR”. 
>
> On Jun 16, 2021, at 13:17, Tom Wyland  wrote:
>
> If I was Riv President for a day, I would ponder if adding a lower-cost 
> all-rounder bike would cut into sales of the other models. Clem and 
> Roadini  (tigged lower-cost frames) are on the rough terrain and road ends 
> of the spectrum.  The premium equivalents are the Hillibikes  and AHH.  All 
> of the bikes in the all-rounder territory are the premium type, and there 
> are quite a few models that functionally overlap (Platy, Sam, Atlantis, Joe 
> Appa). Adding a lower-cost alternative for the already overlapping premium 
> models would just cut into the sales of those without further 
> differentiation. 
>
>
> I would partner with a brand that made lower-cost frames and offer those 
> without Riv branding.  Then capture all of those other brand's customers 
> and offer them to ladder up to a Rivendell.  Basically use the lower cost 
> brand as a channel to sell the more premium Rivs.  And you wouldn't dilute 
> your brand with a lower-priced model with little differentiation.  
> Companies like Handsome or Soma might make sense.
>
> The good news is 1) I'm not Riv President for a Day and 2) due to the 
> current bike boom they'll sell whatever bikes they ordered in an hour.  
> Boom.
>
> Tom
>
> -- 
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8f0bfb0e-d82b-4fe7-b246-26190a4f7f15n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[luckyturnip]

Grant has designed more than a few bikes for other companies. The one I can 
think of off the top of my head is the Brooklyn Bike Company Driggs. But I know 
what you’re saying…there’s something about that Rivendell name on the bike.
Funny enough, I recall that back in 1994 or so, when I bought my Atlantis, it 
was because I reallwanted a Riv, but I just didn’t have the scratch for a “real 
Rivendell AR”. 

> On Jun 16, 2021, at 13:17, Tom Wyland  wrote:
> 
> If I was Riv President for a day, I would ponder if adding a lower-cost 
> all-rounder bike would cut into sales of the other models. Clem and Roadini  
> (tigged lower-cost frames) are on the rough terrain and road ends of the 
> spectrum.  The premium equivalents are the Hillibikes  and AHH.  All of the 
> bikes in the all-rounder territory are the premium type, and there are quite 
> a few models that functionally overlap (Platy, Sam, Atlantis, Joe Appa). 
> Adding a lower-cost alternative for the already overlapping premium models 
> would just cut into the sales of those without further differentiation. 
> 
> I would partner with a brand that made lower-cost frames and offer those 
> without Riv branding.  Then capture all of those other brand's customers and 
> offer them to ladder up to a Rivendell.  Basically use the lower cost brand 
> as a channel to sell the more premium Rivs.  And you wouldn't dilute your 
> brand with a lower-priced model with little differentiation.  Companies like 
> Handsome or Soma might make sense.
> 
> The good news is 1) I'm not Riv President for a Day and 2) due to the current 
> bike boom they'll sell whatever bikes they ordered in an hour.  Boom.
> 
> Tom
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Tom Wyland]

If I was Riv President for a day, I would ponder if adding a lower-cost 
all-rounder bike would cut into sales of the other models. Clem and 
Roadini  (tigged lower-cost frames) are on the rough terrain and road ends 
of the spectrum.  The premium equivalents are the Hillibikes  and AHH.  All 
of the bikes in the all-rounder territory are the premium type, and there 
are quite a few models that functionally overlap (Platy, Sam, Atlantis, Joe 
Appa). Adding a lower-cost alternative for the already overlapping premium 
models would just cut into the sales of those without further 
differentiation. 

I would partner with a brand that made lower-cost frames and offer those 
without Riv branding.  Then capture all of those other brand's customers 
and offer them to ladder up to a Rivendell.  Basically use the lower cost 
brand as a channel to sell the more premium Rivs.  And you wouldn't dilute 
your brand with a lower-priced model with little differentiation.  
Companies like Handsome or Soma might make sense.

The good news is 1) I'm not Riv President for a Day and 2) due to the 
current bike boom they'll sell whatever bikes they ordered in an hour.  
Boom.

Tom

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

Been a good while since an update, so here is a bad one:  the ETA on 
Charlies was pushed from Jan 2022 to "on hold indefinitely".  Just no room 
in the production schedule / material procurement to make a new model 
happen in the scheduled future.  This is per James at Riv - sounds highly 
likely that it will be picked back up once there's bandwidth but just not 
being actively pursued until then. 



On Saturday, 7 November 2020 at 18:33:09 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I haven't heard evidence of more than the two prototypes (though I'm far 
> from "in the know" as well), the one which is silver-ish might be the color 
> but I don't see any blue in it.. 
>
> Interesting that that page notes the frameset, since I was last told they 
> would only be offered as completes. Perhaps the difficulties in putting 
> together a parts package right now changed their minds since it would push 
> the date they could sell them out too far.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

I haven't heard evidence of more than the two prototypes (though I'm far 
from "in the know" as well), the one which is silver-ish might be the color 
but I don't see any blue in it.. 

Interesting that that page notes the frameset, since I was last told they 
would only be offered as completes. Perhaps the difficulties in putting 
together a parts package right now changed their minds since it would push 
the date they could sell them out too far.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. I did come across that page, but I'd like to see a photo. Anyone?

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 9:02 AM Chase Granoff 
wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> I came across it this morning... just searched Gallop on the Riv site and
> found the link. No photos. Just specs and such.
>
> Strange... the link should still work (it is for me). Try this:
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork
>
> Chase
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2020 at 10:52:31 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Can anyone post a photo or a link to a photo? I missed this one. When did
>> it appear?
>>
>> Googling brings up a 404 on the Riv site and misc cartoon fish and people
>> photos elsewhere.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 8:36 AM Chase Granoff  wrote:
>>
>>> This might be old news.. but I was looking for something on the Riv site
>>> and came across this:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork?_pos=10&_sid=deda5f283&_ss=r
>>> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:49 AM UTC-4 Dorothy C wrote:
>>>
 Eamon, on Instagram last week when Will’s new Susie was pictured, in
 the comment there was a summary of ETA’s on frames, snipped from the
 newsletter.
  When someone asked about any plans for the Roadini he said “Not in the
 foreseeable future. Of course, that does not mean “forever.”

 On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 10:34:31 PM UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist
 wrote:

> Is the Roadini discontinued, and the Charlie H Gallop it’s
> replacement? If so, I guess I understand why they may have chosen to go
> with caliper brakes over canti/v-brakes. I suppose I’m not 100% against 
> the
> change. It is an interesting bike either way.
>
> Eamon
> Seattle

 --
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> .
>


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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Chase Granoff]

Hi Patrick, 

I came across it this morning... just searched Gallop on the Riv site and 
found the link. No photos. Just specs and such.

Strange... the link should still work (it is for me). Try this:

https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork

Chase

On Saturday, November 7, 2020 at 10:52:31 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Can anyone post a photo or a link to a photo? I missed this one. When did 
> it appear?
>
> Googling brings up a 404 on the Riv site and misc cartoon fish and people 
> photos elsewhere.
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 8:36 AM Chase Granoff  wrote:
>
>> This might be old news.. but I was looking for something on the Riv site 
>> and came across this:
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork?_pos=10&_sid=deda5f283&_ss=r
>> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:49 AM UTC-4 Dorothy C wrote:
>>
>>> Eamon, on Instagram last week when Will’s new Susie was pictured, in the 
>>> comment there was a summary of ETA’s on frames, snipped from the 
>>> newsletter. 
>>>  When someone asked about any plans for the Roadini he said “Not in the 
>>> foreseeable future. Of course, that does not mean “forever.”
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 10:34:31 PM UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>>
 Is the Roadini discontinued, and the Charlie H Gallop it’s replacement? 
 If so, I guess I understand why they may have chosen to go with caliper 
 brakes over canti/v-brakes. I suppose I’m not 100% against the change. It 
 is an interesting bike either way. 

 Eamon 
 Seattle 
>>>
>>> -- 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Patrick Moore]

Can anyone post a photo or a link to a photo? I missed this one. When did
it appear?

Googling brings up a 404 on the Riv site and misc cartoon fish and people
photos elsewhere.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 8:36 AM Chase Granoff 
wrote:

> This might be old news.. but I was looking for something on the Riv site
> and came across this:
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork?_pos=10&_sid=deda5f283&_ss=r
> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:49 AM UTC-4 Dorothy C wrote:
>
>> Eamon, on Instagram last week when Will’s new Susie was pictured, in the
>> comment there was a summary of ETA’s on frames, snipped from the
>> newsletter.
>>  When someone asked about any plans for the Roadini he said “Not in the
>> foreseeable future. Of course, that does not mean “forever.”
>>
>> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 10:34:31 PM UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>>> Is the Roadini discontinued, and the Charlie H Gallop it’s replacement?
>>> If so, I guess I understand why they may have chosen to go with caliper
>>> brakes over canti/v-brakes. I suppose I’m not 100% against the change. It
>>> is an interesting bike either way.
>>>
>>> Eamon
>>> Seattle
>>
>> --

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Chase Granoff]

This might be old news.. but I was looking for something on the Riv site 
and came across this:

https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork?_pos=10&_sid=deda5f283&_ss=r
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:49 AM UTC-4 Dorothy C wrote:

> Eamon, on Instagram last week when Will’s new Susie was pictured, in the 
> comment there was a summary of ETA’s on frames, snipped from the 
> newsletter. 
>  When someone asked about any plans for the Roadini he said “Not in the 
> foreseeable future. Of course, that does not mean “forever.”
>
> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 10:34:31 PM UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
>> Is the Roadini discontinued, and the Charlie H Gallop it’s replacement? 
>> If so, I guess I understand why they may have chosen to go with caliper 
>> brakes over canti/v-brakes. I suppose I’m not 100% against the change. It 
>> is an interesting bike either way. 
>>
>> Eamon 
>> Seattle 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Dorothy C]

Eamon, on Instagram last week when Will’s new Susie was pictured, in the 
comment there was a summary of ETA’s on frames, snipped from the 
newsletter. 
 When someone asked about any plans for the Roadini he said “Not in the 
foreseeable future. Of course, that does not mean “forever.”

On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 10:34:31 PM UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist wrote:

> Is the Roadini discontinued, and the Charlie H Gallop it’s replacement? If 
> so, I guess I understand why they may have chosen to go with caliper brakes 
> over canti/v-brakes. I suppose I’m not 100% against the change. It is an 
> interesting bike either way.
>
> Eamon
> Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eamon Nordquist]

Is the Roadini discontinued, and the Charlie H Gallop it’s replacement? If so, 
I guess I understand why they may have chosen to go with caliper brakes over 
canti/v-brakes. I suppose I’m not 100% against the change. It is an interesting 
bike either way.

Eamon
Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Ash]

Zem,  I did not ride it that day.  In normal times I'd be comfortable 
requesting a ride and being the most awesome bunch, Riv folks would have 
set it up for me.  This stop was supposed to be for a socially-distanced 
order pickup.  I was glad they hung out with me and chatted  briefly and 
pulled out the bike for me to hold and look.  One of these days I may 
schedule a test ride and drive up there.  It seemed like the front fork 
details were not final, but overall it felt like a Roadini (the TT might be 
straight or less curvy, if remember) slightly moving toward AHH.  I noticed 
that it had a braze to attach the center kickstand.  Definitely longer 
chain stay than the Roadini.

The more I ride the Roadini the more I'm liking it.  For those who doesn't 
feel like waiting for 6-10 months, they can't go wrong picking a Roadini 
instead of CHG, IMO.  It is by far the most enjoyable road bike I have been 
on.  It is buttery smooth, it flies!

sorry about the longer-than-called-for reply :)
On Tuesday, 22 September 2020 at 09:11:55 UTC-7 zem...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ash - any ride quality impressions relative to the Roadini or other Riv 
> models?
>
> On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 6:19:32 PM UTC-4 Ash wrote:
>
>> Recently I had a chance to look at CGH prototype in person at WHQ.  A 
>> worthy successor to the  Roadini.  I really liked what I saw.Was ready 
>> to put the money down if they would take it!   
>>
>> I'd have replaced those mini V-brakes with the upcoming Cantis.  But if 
>> CHG comes with no canti studs, I'm going to pass.
>>
>> Leah, don't worry too much about parts shortage.  Being the Rivendell 
>> Ambassador, l you would be able to crowd-source them here!
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 19 September 2020 at 19:54:22 UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>>> Dang, I really wanted to get one of these, and hoped to be gainfully 
>>> employed again by the time they are out. I’m no really interested anymore 
>>> if it’s going to be made for long reach calipers. I don’t understand that 
>>> change, but wish them well. Being able to run cantis was what was sealing 
>>> the deal for me. It’s really a great design otherwise, but with big tire 
>>> clearance, I really want cantis. 
>>>
>>> Eamon 
>>> Seattle 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[zem...@gmail.com]

Ash - any ride quality impressions relative to the Roadini or other Riv 
models?

On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 6:19:32 PM UTC-4 Ash wrote:

> Recently I had a chance to look at CGH prototype in person at WHQ.  A 
> worthy successor to the  Roadini.  I really liked what I saw.Was ready 
> to put the money down if they would take it!   
>
> I'd have replaced those mini V-brakes with the upcoming Cantis.  But if 
> CHG comes with no canti studs, I'm going to pass.
>
> Leah, don't worry too much about parts shortage.  Being the Rivendell 
> Ambassador, l you would be able to crowd-source them here!
>
>
> On Saturday, 19 September 2020 at 19:54:22 UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
>> Dang, I really wanted to get one of these, and hoped to be gainfully 
>> employed again by the time they are out. I’m no really interested anymore 
>> if it’s going to be made for long reach calipers. I don’t understand that 
>> change, but wish them well. Being able to run cantis was what was sealing 
>> the deal for me. It’s really a great design otherwise, but with big tire 
>> clearance, I really want cantis. 
>>
>> Eamon 
>> Seattle 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Ash]

Recently I had a chance to look at CGH prototype in person at WHQ.  A 
worthy successor to the  Roadini.  I really liked what I saw.Was ready 
to put the money down if they would take it!   

I'd have replaced those mini V-brakes with the upcoming Cantis.  But if CHG 
comes with no canti studs, I'm going to pass.

Leah, don't worry too much about parts shortage.  Being the Rivendell 
Ambassador, l you would be able to crowd-source them here!


On Saturday, 19 September 2020 at 19:54:22 UTC-7 Eamon Nordquist wrote:

> Dang, I really wanted to get one of these, and hoped to be gainfully 
> employed again by the time they are out. I’m no really interested anymore 
> if it’s going to be made for long reach calipers. I don’t understand that 
> change, but wish them well. Being able to run cantis was what was sealing 
> the deal for me. It’s really a great design otherwise, but with big tire 
> clearance, I really want cantis.
>
> Eamon 
> Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eamon Nordquist]

Dang, I really wanted to get one of these, and hoped to be gainfully employed 
again by the time they are out. I’m no really interested anymore if it’s going 
to be made for long reach calipers. I don’t understand that change, but wish 
them well. Being able to run cantis was what was sealing the deal for me. It’s 
really a great design otherwise, but with big tire clearance, I really want 
cantis.

Eamon 
Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joel Stern]

I had a hard time getting all the parts I needed for a recent build.  I
would buy what you can afford now just in case.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 10:11 PM Mark Roland 
wrote:

> You should start buying them 6 months ago.  I tried telling my local bike
> shop guy that (6 months ago),  to start stockpiling the basicsnope.
> He's out of almost everything, though he did manage to score some inner
> tubes from his Jamis dealer. He can't even get bottom brackets from the
> major distributors. Luckily Riv had the (2) 118s I needed fo build my
> Hubbuhubbahbubba.
>
> On Saturday, September 19, 2020 at 3:17:18 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> I am starting to worry, however, about PARTS. Wouldn’t that be my luck?
>> Finally get my Riv mixte only to be unable to build it? Will discusses a
>> parts shortage in the newsletter. I’m wondering if we should start buying
>> them now...
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2020, at 10:55 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>> As the self-appointed CHG messenger bird:
>>
>> - Timeline as been pushed out (it seems) to next summer for delivery.
>> Pre-sale was previously set up for Nov - Jan range, not sure if this is
>> changing
>> - Brakes will be long-reach sidepull caliper brakes like the Homer etc.
>> Unfortunately IMO. Reasoning being that V-brakes are limiting for road
>> setups, but not sure what's wrong with canti's for those cases?
>>
>> I was 99% sure I would be buying one, but it has dipped to maybe 60% sure
>> now, since I recently bought a XO-2 that will fulfill the same role. I
>> imagine the CHG would ride like a Cadillac in comparison though.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Mark Roland]

You should start buying them 6 months ago.  I tried telling my local bike 
shop guy that (6 months ago),  to start stockpiling the basicsnope. 
He's out of almost everything, though he did manage to score some inner 
tubes from his Jamis dealer. He can't even get bottom brackets from the 
major distributors. Luckily Riv had the (2) 118s I needed fo build my 
Hubbuhubbahbubba.

On Saturday, September 19, 2020 at 3:17:18 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
Ding! wrote:

> I am starting to worry, however, about PARTS. Wouldn’t that be my luck? 
> Finally get my Riv mixte only to be unable to build it? Will discusses a 
> parts shortage in the newsletter. I’m wondering if we should start buying 
> them now...
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 19, 2020, at 10:55 AM, Jason Fuller  > wrote:
>
> As the self-appointed CHG messenger bird: 
>
> - Timeline as been pushed out (it seems) to next summer for delivery.  
> Pre-sale was previously set up for Nov - Jan range, not sure if this is 
> changing
> - Brakes will be long-reach sidepull caliper brakes like the Homer etc.  
> Unfortunately IMO. Reasoning being that V-brakes are limiting for road 
> setups, but not sure what's wrong with canti's for those cases? 
>
> I was 99% sure I would be buying one, but it has dipped to maybe 60% sure 
> now, since I recently bought a XO-2 that will fulfill the same role. I 
> imagine the CHG would ride like a Cadillac in comparison though. 
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Leah Peterson]

I saw the timeline, Jason, and was disappointed on your behalf. It seemed like 
it would arrive so much sooner. 

It WAS encouraging, however, to see that Riv has several upcoming orders. If 
the timeline is right, I only have to wait 2 more months for a Platypus. Which 
is nothing since I’ve been asking for this bike for 2 years.

I am starting to worry, however, about PARTS. Wouldn’t that be my luck? Finally 
get my Riv mixte only to be unable to build it? Will discusses a parts 
shortage in the newsletter. I’m wondering if we should start buying them now...

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 19, 2020, at 10:55 AM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
> 
> As the self-appointed CHG messenger bird: 
> 
> - Timeline as been pushed out (it seems) to next summer for delivery.  
> Pre-sale was previously set up for Nov - Jan range, not sure if this is 
> changing
> - Brakes will be long-reach sidepull caliper brakes like the Homer etc.  
> Unfortunately IMO. Reasoning being that V-brakes are limiting for road 
> setups, but not sure what's wrong with canti's for those cases? 
> 
> I was 99% sure I would be buying one, but it has dipped to maybe 60% sure 
> now, since I recently bought a XO-2 that will fulfill the same role. I 
> imagine the CHG would ride like a Cadillac in comparison though. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

As the self-appointed CHG messenger bird: 

- Timeline as been pushed out (it seems) to next summer for delivery.  
Pre-sale was previously set up for Nov - Jan range, not sure if this is 
changing
- Brakes will be long-reach sidepull caliper brakes like the Homer etc.  
Unfortunately IMO. Reasoning being that V-brakes are limiting for road 
setups, but not sure what's wrong with canti's for those cases? 

I was 99% sure I would be buying one, but it has dipped to maybe 60% sure 
now, since I recently bought a XO-2 that will fulfill the same role. I 
imagine the CHG would ride like a Cadillac in comparison though. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

Yeah I am very much not sold with the appearance with the drop bars, but I 
am going to run mine with an upright bar (MAP / Ahearne bar, to be exact) 
and I've come around on that. Or, more accurately, I've come to really like 
the look of Gus/Suzie and I can by extension accept the Charlie. 

I would still buy silver, because I want understated, but Riv are masters 
at understated, classy colours so I'm hoping to be wowed, like with the 
Platypus green! 

Eamon - sorry to hear, I hope things turn around soon!  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eamon Nordquist]

I love that silver, although it’s partly because it reminds me of the early 
80’s Treks, with their great Imron paint jobs. Mostly, I am just really loving 
that bike. I have to stop looking at it, as I currently have no job :( and the 
pandemic is going to make it harder to get one, so the last thing I should be 
doing is fantasize about buying a bike. 

Eamon
Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

What I am most interested in now is what the colors are going to be (same 
as the prototypes? or different?) and what the downtube logo will look 
like. I am hoping for an understated color that isn't too boring - ie 
classic Riv blue would be great, but I don't like that silver too much. 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Andy Beichler]

That looks great.  

On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 6:57:37 PM UTC-4, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> You underestimate my parts bin! I could build both complete, other than 
> the new wheelset, but you're very right that it's only a $750 increase over 
> the frameset (give or take, depending where it lands exactly) and that's a 
> great value for a full build curated by Riv. I'm not sure how flexible Riv 
> typically is about swapping stuff out but I suspect I shall find out (and 
> buy either way). 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Whatcha Oughtter]

Mini v brakes that can be used with normal-pull road brake levers. I had 
tektros that worked great on a drop bar conversion MB-2. I also had mtb lever 
shifters on the top of the bars and I’d do that again too. Room for 42mm tires?

Time to start saving $$!!!

-John

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

Ash, yes - 10 minutes after I get my order in!  :D 

But in all seriousness, I don't know, sounds like they need to sort out the 
build kits first and getting parts is tricky this year, so that's kind of 
the biggest delay. The frame itself sounds to be pretty solidified, which 
is promising. I suppose it could be anytime next month onwards, but also 
could be near the end of the year

On Wednesday, 19 August 2020 at 09:57:39 UTC-7 Ash wrote:

> Jason, 
>
> Any intel on when can I order one of these?!!   
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Ash]

Jason, 

Any intel on when can I order one of these?!!   


On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 15:04:14 UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> James told me some stuff today about the Charlie H Gallop and I've kept 
> the secret for a full hour now - I hope he wasn't expecting me to hold it 
> in longer than that :D 
>
> - They will be sold as completes with Clem-like pricing (I don't know if 
> they'll be drop bar, upright, or both options) 
> - Rough timing is November to January for them to be available (or maybe 
> that's the presale, don't quote me) 
>
> As someone who has almost all the parts to build one up, I was hoping for 
> frameset only, but if it's near the $1650 complete mark, how can I 
> complain. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

Those are 700 x 42.  I may already have a pair of 700 x 38 GravelKing's I 
got for my future CHG which I'll run with fenders :) 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eamon Nordquist]

I love it. I’m not sure what size tires are on that, but they look pretty fat, 
and there still appears to be plenty of room for fenders. It looks like it 
would make a nice light all road bike. I agree with Bill’s Roadini comparison.

Eamon
Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

['Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch]

They look like V-brakes to me. You can see the noodle in the front cable 
line. And, a side pull doesn't easily work in the rear because of the cable 
routing to the brake arm with the housing stop. That Saddlesack would get 
in the way.
I don't recognize the brakes -- TRP?
Same ornate seat cluster lug as on the Susie/Wolbis. I like it and the 
fluted end caps on the seat stays.-

David Lipsky
Berkeley, CA


On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 5:24:17 PM UTC-7, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> Totally! Which is exactly what I'd hoped for. I don't know what the tubing 
> is on the Roadini but I imagine this is similar, maybe one step up in wall 
> thickness. Normally I'd want 650B in my size but since I can "size up" more 
> comfortably with the curved top tube, the 700c will be proportional.  
> Anyone know what sidepulls those are? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[lambbo]

BEATIFUL!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eric Daume]

>From the CHG drawings, it looks like the tubing might actually be smaller
diameter than the Roadini. The Roadini (at least in my 61cm size), has a
28.6~31.8 top tube, while the CHG looks to be 25.4 that is squished various
ways. That would be a nice change--the Roadini is plenty stout.

Eric

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 8:24 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> Totally! Which is exactly what I'd hoped for. I don't know what the tubing
> is on the Roadini but I imagine this is similar, maybe one step up in wall
> thickness. Normally I'd want 650B in my size but since I can "size up" more
> comfortably with the curved top tube, the 700c will be proportional.
> Anyone know what sidepulls those are?
> On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 16:27:13 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> That looks like they took a Roadini, gave it slightly bigger tire
>> clearance, added Canti posts, and curved the top tube.  I approve.
>>
>> I wonder if it's 130mm in back or 135mm
>>
>> I also wonder if that's a 35 year old Suntour BL front der on that
>> build.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 3:57:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> You underestimate my parts bin! I could build both complete, other than
>>> the new wheelset, but you're very right that it's only a $750 increase over
>>> the frameset (give or take, depending where it lands exactly) and that's a
>>> great value for a full build curated by Riv. I'm not sure how flexible Riv
>>> typically is about swapping stuff out but I suspect I shall find out (and
>>> buy either way).
>>>
>>> Okay fine, I'll also include the photo I received from James - not like
>>> there's anything new being leaked here!  Both James and Grant sound very
>>> pleased with how it rides. [image: IMG_8351.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

Totally! Which is exactly what I'd hoped for. I don't know what the tubing 
is on the Roadini but I imagine this is similar, maybe one step up in wall 
thickness. Normally I'd want 650B in my size but since I can "size up" more 
comfortably with the curved top tube, the 700c will be proportional.  
Anyone know what sidepulls those are? 
On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 16:27:13 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> That looks like they took a Roadini, gave it slightly bigger tire 
> clearance, added Canti posts, and curved the top tube.  I approve.  
>
> I wonder if it's 130mm in back or 135mm
>
> I also wonder if that's a 35 year old Suntour BL front der on that build.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 3:57:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> You underestimate my parts bin! I could build both complete, other than 
>> the new wheelset, but you're very right that it's only a $750 increase over 
>> the frameset (give or take, depending where it lands exactly) and that's a 
>> great value for a full build curated by Riv. I'm not sure how flexible Riv 
>> typically is about swapping stuff out but I suspect I shall find out (and 
>> buy either way). 
>>
>> Okay fine, I'll also include the photo I received from James - not like 
>> there's anything new being leaked here!  Both James and Grant sound very 
>> pleased with how it rides. [image: IMG_8351.jpg]
>>
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Bill Lindsay]

That looks like they took a Roadini, gave it slightly bigger tire 
clearance, added Canti posts, and curved the top tube.  I approve.  

I wonder if it's 130mm in back or 135mm

I also wonder if that's a 35 year old Suntour BL front der on that build.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 3:57:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> You underestimate my parts bin! I could build both complete, other than 
> the new wheelset, but you're very right that it's only a $750 increase over 
> the frameset (give or take, depending where it lands exactly) and that's a 
> great value for a full build curated by Riv. I'm not sure how flexible Riv 
> typically is about swapping stuff out but I suspect I shall find out (and 
> buy either way). 
>
> Okay fine, I'll also include the photo I received from James - not like 
> there's anything new being leaked here!  Both James and Grant sound very 
> pleased with how it rides. [image: IMG_8351.jpg]
>
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

For $1650 you get a complete bike and can sell your Clem H without pilfering 
any parts from it. Winner! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

James told me some stuff today about the Charlie H Gallop and I've kept the 
secret for a full hour now - I hope he wasn't expecting me to hold it in 
longer than that :D 

- They will be sold as completes with Clem-like pricing (I don't know if 
they'll be drop bar, upright, or both options) 
- Rough timing is November to January for them to be available (or maybe 
that's the presale, don't quote me) 

As someone who has almost all the parts to build one up, I was hoping for 
frameset only, but if it's near the $1650 complete mark, how can I 
complain. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Mark Roland]

Yeah. Most bikes are stolen as crimes of opportunity--unlocked, unattended. 
Then you have the semi-pros--they have cutters and can get at cheaper locks 
quickly. It's doubtful whether they will discriminate much as long as the 
bike looks like it can bring $10+. I understand there is a small subset of 
thieves that know the signs of a high end bike, and have buyers that will 
pay them enough for their troubles without asking questions. If these folks 
zero in on your bike for whatever reason, without lots of countermeasures, 
it will be hard to deny them. The good news is, this last type probably 
operates in a zone rich with potential targets. Does the park entrance seem 
like a likely drive by spot for pro bike heists? Is there a ranger station 
or parking lot guard booth nearby? Etc. Etc. 

As far as the Charlie Gallop looking like a 90s Multitrack. H. I think 
all the swoop bikes are snazzy--Clem L, Susie/Gus, upcoming CG. I think the 
Platypus is gettng a swoop in the extra stays?

On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 9:09:18 PM UTC-4, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> I have a hard time believing anyone outside the Riv-fam will find the 
> curved top tube of the CHG attractive ;) Honestly, the silver-grey proto 
> looks like a 1990s "multi-track" hybrid bike to me; extremely low key IMO. 
>
> It'll be a TIG frame in the ~$900 range (I hope), but more importantly 
> it'll be the build kit that makes me more comfortable locking it up.  My 
> Hillborne is well decorated and gets constant compliments (partly due to 
> the orange, I'm sure) and I've invested over $5000 into it.  The CHG build 
> would be much more utilitarian and low key - I would go with the most 
> understated colour option it ends up coming in, such as Greysilver, and it 
> would inherit many of its parts from the Clem (wheels/tires obviously 
> notwithstanding).  
>
> Basing whether one wants to lock up a bike on perceived attractiveness to 
> thieves is a flawed system I realize - it's probably more luck of the draw 
> than anything. But I know I'd be more comfortable locking up a CHG, as long 
> as I keep my upgradeitis in check. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

I have a hard time believing anyone outside the Riv-fam will find the 
curved top tube of the CHG attractive ;) Honestly, the silver-grey proto 
looks like a 1990s "multi-track" hybrid bike to me; extremely low key IMO. 

It'll be a TIG frame in the ~$900 range (I hope), but more importantly 
it'll be the build kit that makes me more comfortable locking it up.  My 
Hillborne is well decorated and gets constant compliments (partly due to 
the orange, I'm sure) and I've invested over $5000 into it.  The CHG build 
would be much more utilitarian and low key - I would go with the most 
understated colour option it ends up coming in, such as Greysilver, and it 
would inherit many of its parts from the Clem (wheels/tires obviously 
notwithstanding).  

Basing whether one wants to lock up a bike on perceived attractiveness to 
thieves is a flawed system I realize - it's probably more luck of the draw 
than anything. But I know I'd be more comfortable locking up a CHG, as long 
as I keep my upgradeitis in check. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eric Daume]

I can’t see how locking and leaving the CHG would be any less stressful
than the Sam. Maybe more so, since the Sam looks a bit older fashioned and
maybe less attractive to thieves.

On Thursday, August 13, 2020, Jason Fuller  wrote:

> Yesterday I went for a ~50km ride with a couple buddies, and we had to
> lock up our bikes at the entrance to the park because it was no bikes -
> which was stressful for me on the Hillborne. Now, my Clem I am comfortable
> locking up in those types of situations, but it's really tough to keep up
> with said friends on it. So all day today I've been daydreaming about the
> Gallup - it could easily be built up into a very low key bike that rides
> nice and is quick on pavement, I'm thinking. Decent chance I'll be jumping
> on the pre-sale and changing from Clem to Gallup in 2021 (the Hillborne is
> a forever bike, though).
>
> On Saturday, 18 July 2020 at 19:00:14 UTC-7 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
>> That’s it! Thanks and glad I wasn’t making up the “... complete
>> non-custom for about the same cost as a full custom frame” suggestion.
>>
>> I also realize I replied to Scott’s message basically restating exactly
>> what he and some above had stated. Sorry about that. The cost comparison 4K
>> vs 4K was the part I hoped to expand upon or spark someone’s memory to
>> clarify. Thanks for digging up the link.
>>
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> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

Yesterday I went for a ~50km ride with a couple buddies, and we had to lock 
up our bikes at the entrance to the park because it was no bikes - which 
was stressful for me on the Hillborne. Now, my Clem I am comfortable 
locking up in those types of situations, but it's really tough to keep up 
with said friends on it. So all day today I've been daydreaming about the 
Gallup - it could easily be built up into a very low key bike that rides 
nice and is quick on pavement, I'm thinking. Decent chance I'll be jumping 
on the pre-sale and changing from Clem to Gallup in 2021 (the Hillborne is 
a forever bike, though). 

On Saturday, 18 July 2020 at 19:00:14 UTC-7 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> That’s it! Thanks and glad I wasn’t making up the “... complete non-custom 
> for about the same cost as a full custom frame” suggestion.
>
> I also realize I replied to Scott’s message basically restating exactly 
> what he and some above had stated. Sorry about that. The cost comparison 4K 
> vs 4K was the part I hoped to expand upon or spark someone’s memory to 
> clarify. Thanks for digging up the link.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

That’s it!  Thanks and glad I wasn’t making up the “... complete non-custom for 
about the same cost as a full custom frame” suggestion.

I also realize I replied to Scott’s message basically restating exactly what he 
and some above had stated.  Sorry about that.  The cost comparison 4K vs 4K was 
the part I hoped to expand upon or spark someone’s memory to clarify.  Thanks 
for digging up the link.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[kim young]

the Rivnobi!


https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/no-4-2020-early-feb-topics?_pos=9&_sid=5f9834c54&_ss=r

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:20 AM Coal Bee Rye Anne <
lionsrugbyalu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My memory is quite hazy lately but I vaguely recall mention of a
> 'complete-only' offering in the works being something in collaboration with
> Mark Nobilette - maybe non-custom-made-to-orders or something along those
> lines?  I think the gist of it was a complete Nobilette made Rivendell
> for approximately the same cost as a custom frameset?  I could very well be
> confusing things and have been completely out of the loop but there was
> something mentioned like that a while back in one of the
> Blug/Blahg/Emails.  Can't dig it up right now but just thought I'd throw it
> out there in case any others remember and could clarify?
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 10:07:31 AM UTC-4, scott minor wrote:
>
>> Ah, I hope that’s the case.  I’m increasingly attracted to the Gallup and
>> very curious about its development moving forward.  As for the
>> complete-only bikes, yes I recall now that those are to be Nobilette built
>> bikes offered as completes, not the Gallup.  Thanks for chiming in and
>> helping clear that up.
>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

My memory is quite hazy lately but I vaguely recall mention of a 
'complete-only' offering in the works being something in collaboration with 
Mark Nobilette - maybe non-custom-made-to-orders or something along those 
lines?  I think the gist of it was a complete Nobilette made Rivendell 
for approximately the same cost as a custom frameset?  I could very well be 
confusing things and have been completely out of the loop but there was 
something mentioned like that a while back in one of the 
Blug/Blahg/Emails.  Can't dig it up right now but just thought I'd throw it 
out there in case any others remember and could clarify?



On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 10:07:31 AM UTC-4, scott minor wrote:

> Ah, I hope that’s the case.  I’m increasingly attracted to the Gallup and 
> very curious about its development moving forward.  As for the 
> complete-only bikes, yes I recall now that those are to be Nobilette built 
> bikes offered as completes, not the Gallup.  Thanks for chiming in and 
> helping clear that up.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[scott minor]

Ah, I hope that’s the case.  I’m increasingly attracted to the Gallup and very 
curious about its development moving forward.  As for the complete-only bikes, 
yes I recall now that those are to be Nobilette built bikes offered as 
completes, not the Gallup.  Thanks for chiming in and helping clear that up.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Mark Roland]

My understanding is that it will be offered both complete and as a 
frameset, with the frameset being more available than recent Clem 
framesets, which lately have only been offered in limited quantities after 
all the completes ship out. Not sure if that was a phone conversation with 
Rivendell, or a Blahg, or a newsletter. Or Just My Magination. 

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 8:44:10 PM UTC-4, scott minor wrote:
>
> Is this the bike Grant wrote about a while back that will be offered as 
> complete-only?  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[kim young]

I remember reading- sometime back in winter. Mark was building up some not
quite custom, but fancy complete bikes.
forget what they were called now... ‘raviolis’ ...?  Lol. Something like
that.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 5:44 PM scott minor  wrote:

> Is this the bike Grant wrote about a while back that will be offered as
> complete-only?
>
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> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[scott minor]

Is this the bike Grant wrote about a while back that will be offered as 
complete-only?  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Mark Roland]

That is one nifty looking bicycle.

It seems counterintuitive, but I like the swooptop style more than the 
traditional sloping top tube. It may have started way back with the first 
prototype photo of the Clementine (2014?). My immediate reaction was, that 
is the ugliest. I guess I then had a sudden conversion experience, because 
a couple minutes later, I decided I was going to buy one when they became 
available.

My favorite aesthetic would still have to be the diamond frame with 
standard diameter tubing and level top tube. But for the modern generation 
of bicycles with bigger tires and do-anything attitude, the Gus 
Boots/Susie, and the Charlie, and the swoopstays on the upcoming Platypus, 
along with slightly OS tubing and fat rubber--I don't know why, but just a 
pleasing overall look. Not really retro, but not super aggressive like so 
many of the current designs out there. That swoop softens the lines and 
gives it a convivial look--yet plenty bad-ass enough with big knobbies and 
bullmoose bars. The Charlie below looks great with what looks to be flipped 
albasomethings. Would look equally good with some type of flared drop.

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 3:08:52 PM UTC-4, Flowerfang wrote:
>
>
> another pic- test Gallop
>
> (can’t recall for certain- photo credit in this one is grant or sophia.)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:48 AM Jeff B > 
> wrote:
>
>> If anyone zoomed in enough in the last email update, the Gallop Prototype 
>> was in this photo. Photo credit to Will as seen in the email update.
>>
>> [image: mail.jpeg]
>>
>> [image: fullsizeoutput_2.jpeg]
>>
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Andy Beichler]

That is lovely.  

On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 12:47:18 AM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> My Poly.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/JDVudtqU6Jpw6dm2A
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Brett Callahan]

That's a great looking build.  I recently helped a friend build up a purple 
poly, and it is an impressive bike.  Easy to build. I'd very much reccommend it 
to anyone who wants "Riv-adjacent" aesthetics with disc brakes.   

If Riv is going to push for more riders to ride V brakes with drops, dare I 
hope we'll see them make or partner with someone on a better drop bar V lever? 
The widely available Tektro, which I use, is unpleasant, ugly and cheap.  I'd 
love to see something like the TRP levers for Vs.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[masmojo]

My Poly.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JDVudtqU6Jpw6dm2A

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[masmojo]

Just to chime in on VO Polyvalent. 
I bought one of the lilac ones and set it up as close to the set up of my 
Atlantis as I possibly could. Albastash bars, dynamo hub, etc. Now it should be 
noted that there was a difference in frame size due to the difference between 
the 26" wheeled Alantis and the 650B/ lowish trail Polyvalent. The VO was 
noticeably heavier, but also much less costly/sophisticated.
Regardless it rides great! Easily the fastest commuter bike in my stable and 
built with fenders. Unfortunately, I haven't been working much the last year or 
so, so it hasn't had much opportunity to do it's thing.
I have to say it was one of the easiest bikes to build up that I've encountered 
the 1" steerer & not being thru Axle I thought was strange, but not a big 
problem for anyone used to Rivendells, but one of those issues is being 
rectified on the  most current version. 
I really like my Polyvalent and it sort of occupies it's own little Niche in 
that I don't think it crosses over much with any current Rivendell bike (maybe 
a Sam?) I recommend them highly.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Mark Roland]

Hmmm. Testing could be a little difficult. Who at Rivendell remembers how 
to ride a drop bar bike?;^)

On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:59:53 PM UTC-4, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> I feel compelled to update this thread with the photo of the two prototype 
> Gallop's from the RBW email today; built up one and the orange frameset.  
> The orange one sells it for me a lot more.  I still think it should be 
> built around 650x47 instead of 700c, but maybe it's meant to replace the 
> Roadini.  
>
> [image: Two_Gallops.JPG]
> On Sunday, 14 June 2020 at 06:13:40 UTC-7 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> Another shout out to Velo-Orange. I think every one of my bicycles has at 
>> least one of its products, from the handy cable clips and water bottle 
>> holder straps to handlebar grips, handlebars, saddles, cranks, and, of 
>> course, fenders. And while I am not a big low trail guy, the company's 
>> flagship, the Polyvalent, seems to be a well-thought out bike that is 
>> evolving with the times. 
>>
>> If the Gallop comes in pricewise similar to a Clem frame and fork, and 
>> can be pre-ordered as f/f/hs rather than scrambling to scoop up one of the 
>> "insurance" frames for the completes, I would choose it over the Poly due 
>> to trail, rim brakes, and Rivendell. But if it is difficult to get as a 
>> f/f, or is fillet-brazed, I would seriously consider a VO Low Kicker.
>>
>> The current owners are definitely sincere bicycle folk (I chatted with 
>> them briefly at a NAHBBS a couple years back, and read their blog 
>> occasionally. Below, mom, dad, new baby at the Ultraromance booth. Bonus 
>> pic, my son Mack with Mr. Romance). I remember being a bit miffed years ago 
>> when they started carrying camping stuff as kind of "ripping off" Riv, and 
>> I do suspect the forthcoming drop top design Poly was directly influenced 
>> by the Clem L. 
>>
>> But I agree with Aaron that the companies are for the most part 
>> complimentary, and I like to support both (though having directly spoken 
>> with a number of people at Rivendell over the years, feel more loyal to 
>> this brand.) I would not characterize what Grant does as simply bringing 
>> cool designs back into the mainstream, though. I think he gets inspiration 
>> from solutions of the past and applies that to his experience and his 
>> vision of what a modern bicycle should be. In other words, a bit more than 
>> just a re-issue, or homage, or retro-recreation.
>>
>> [image: IMG_0414.JPG]
>>
>> [image: IMG_0415.JPG]
>>
>> [image: IMG_0407(1).JPG]
>>   
>>
>> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 2:17:11 PM UTC-4, A. Douglas M. wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree, Joe! They’re awesome people, and they make really fun and 
>>> functional parts and bikes that I can actually afford! 
>>>
>>> Grant brings a lot of really cool designs back into the mainstream, and 
>>> I’m grateful for that. VO proves there is room in the market for companies 
>>> in the same innovative, practical manner. 
>>>
>>> Best, 
>>>
>>> Aaron
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Jason Fuller]

I feel compelled to update this thread with the photo of the two prototype 
Gallop's from the RBW email today; built up one and the orange frameset.  
The orange one sells it for me a lot more.  I still think it should be 
built around 650x47 instead of 700c, but maybe it's meant to replace the 
Roadini.  

[image: Two_Gallops.JPG]
On Sunday, 14 June 2020 at 06:13:40 UTC-7 Mark Roland wrote:

> Another shout out to Velo-Orange. I think every one of my bicycles has at 
> least one of its products, from the handy cable clips and water bottle 
> holder straps to handlebar grips, handlebars, saddles, cranks, and, of 
> course, fenders. And while I am not a big low trail guy, the company's 
> flagship, the Polyvalent, seems to be a well-thought out bike that is 
> evolving with the times. 
>
> If the Gallop comes in pricewise similar to a Clem frame and fork, and can 
> be pre-ordered as f/f/hs rather than scrambling to scoop up one of the 
> "insurance" frames for the completes, I would choose it over the Poly due 
> to trail, rim brakes, and Rivendell. But if it is difficult to get as a 
> f/f, or is fillet-brazed, I would seriously consider a VO Low Kicker.
>
> The current owners are definitely sincere bicycle folk (I chatted with 
> them briefly at a NAHBBS a couple years back, and read their blog 
> occasionally. Below, mom, dad, new baby at the Ultraromance booth. Bonus 
> pic, my son Mack with Mr. Romance). I remember being a bit miffed years ago 
> when they started carrying camping stuff as kind of "ripping off" Riv, and 
> I do suspect the forthcoming drop top design Poly was directly influenced 
> by the Clem L. 
>
> But I agree with Aaron that the companies are for the most part 
> complimentary, and I like to support both (though having directly spoken 
> with a number of people at Rivendell over the years, feel more loyal to 
> this brand.) I would not characterize what Grant does as simply bringing 
> cool designs back into the mainstream, though. I think he gets inspiration 
> from solutions of the past and applies that to his experience and his 
> vision of what a modern bicycle should be. In other words, a bit more than 
> just a re-issue, or homage, or retro-recreation.
>
> [image: IMG_0414.JPG]
>
> [image: IMG_0415.JPG]
>
> [image: IMG_0407(1).JPG]
>   
>
> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 2:17:11 PM UTC-4, A. Douglas M. wrote:
>>
>> I agree, Joe! They’re awesome people, and they make really fun and 
>> functional parts and bikes that I can actually afford! 
>>
>> Grant brings a lot of really cool designs back into the mainstream, and 
>> I’m grateful for that. VO proves there is room in the market for companies 
>> in the same innovative, practical manner. 
>>
>> Best, 
>>
>> Aaron
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

I hear ya, S, I'm trying to be a more positive fellow on this forum these days, 
too. For excellent raging negativity please see my Twitter account. I don't 
recommend it! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[S]

Off-topic, again, but, just to clarify, I deleted my comments because I 
want to try and be positive online. My comments couldn't be a help to 
anyone, solved no problem, and illuminated no important issues. Also, in 
regard to small businesses, I believe in voting with your wallet. It's one 
thing to say, for example, "Don't buy that stem, it can break," and another 
to question the expertise or sincerity of the people at a company. For all 
I know, the people at the company in question read this forum, it's 
actually fairly likely, and wouldn't it be a bummer for them to read what I 
wrote? 

Anyway, energy is limited, may as well try to use it for positive ends. 

On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 7:11:13 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> FWIW, while I disagree, I didn't think your comments were out of place. 
> Vive la difference!
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM S > wrote:
>
>> Deleted my comments. They were off-topic and not constructive. 
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

Agreed, V-O came up and I offered an opinion. It didn't feel like an argument 
to me worthy of anyone else having to delete their POV. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, while I disagree, I didn't think your comments were out of place.
Vive la difference!

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM S  wrote:

> Deleted my comments. They were off-topic and not constructive.
>
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> 
> .
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[S]

I didn't say the parts weren't well made. The headsets, cranks, etc, look 
nice. But I feel that the design thinking at places such as Riv, Crust, 
Black Mountain, etc, is deeper and comes from a more authentic place. VO 
seem like trend followers to me. Which, whatever, who cares. Just not the 
kind of place I like. 

As for originality, *of course*, Grant didn't invent the cyclocross bike or 
touring bike. *Of course* he was inspired by other things. But I would say 
he put way more thought, way more from-the-ground-up thinking into those 
bikes than anything VO has ever done.

Again, though, who cares. I am not telling anyone not to buy VO. If you 
like their stuff, great. 

On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 10:59:46 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I disagree. VO is clearly more of a “business” business, and much of their 
> stuff is made to a price point, but most of it is made with a purpose more 
> than revenue,  is well designed and manufactured, and developed by people 
> who live bicycles. As for copying, it sure didn’t start with VO—the Roadeo, 
> all rounder, Legolas, even Atlantis didn’t grow fully developed from 
> Grant’s brain.
>
> Patrick Moore
> iPhone
>
> On Jun 13, 2020, at 11:30 AM, S > wrote:
>
> Some of their parts look OK, but I have always felt that VO lacks . . . 
> heart and originality. That's the nicest way I can say it. 
>
> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 3:47:32 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>> VO has on other occasions mimicked what Rivendell has introduced. Usually 
>> made more cheaply and at a lower price point.
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020, 01:09:36 PM CDT, Brian Campbell <
>> bdcamp...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> VO is offering something similar:
>>
>> https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2020/05/mega-list-of-project-updates.html
>>
>> Drop tube/drop bar bikes are a " thing" now.
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[A. Douglas M.]

I agree, Joe! They’re awesome people, and they make really fun and functional 
parts and bikes that I can actually afford!

Grant brings a lot of really cool designs back into the mainstream, and I’m 
grateful for that. VO proves there is room in the market for companies in the 
same innovative, practical manner.

Best,

Aaron

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

The current owners of V-O are lovely people making really neat stuff including 
the Neutrino mini velo, a bike nobody asked for and no market study would have 
recommended. They did it anyway! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Patrick Moore]

I disagree. VO is clearly more of a “business” business, and much of their 
stuff is made to a price point, but most of it is made with a purpose more than 
revenue,  is well designed and manufactured, and developed by people who live 
bicycles. As for copying, it sure didn’t start with VO—the Roadeo, all rounder, 
Legolas, even Atlantis didn’t grow fully developed from Grant’s brain.

Patrick Moore
iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2020, at 11:30 AM, S  wrote:
> 
> Some of their parts look OK, but I have always felt that VO lacks . . . heart 
> and originality. That's the nicest way I can say it. 
> 
>> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 3:47:32 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote:
>> VO has on other occasions mimicked what Rivendell has introduced. Usually 
>> made more cheaply and at a lower price point.
>> 
>> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020, 01:09:36 PM CDT, Brian Campbell 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> VO is offering something similar:
>> 
>> https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2020/05/mega-list-of-project-updates.html
>> 
>> Drop tube/drop bar bikes are a " thing" now.
>> -- 
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>> .
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[S]

Some of their parts look OK, but I have always felt that VO lacks . . . 
heart and originality. That's the nicest way I can say it. 

On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 3:47:32 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> VO has on other occasions mimicked what Rivendell has introduced. Usually 
> made more cheaply and at a lower price point.
>
> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020, 01:09:36 PM CDT, Brian Campbell <
> bdcamp...@gmail.com > wrote: 
>
>
> VO is offering something similar:
>
> https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2020/05/mega-list-of-project-updates.html
>
> Drop tube/drop bar bikes are a " thing" now.
>
> -- 
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>
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>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Bruce Herbitter]

Nifty summary Edwin, missing the Road and Road Standard bikes of ‘94-98.   Long 
time RBW followers know that if you see something you like, buy it.  EVERYTHING 
gets replaced after a short while due to a number of constraints. Some long 
term projects like Atlantis keep the name but the new version is not like the 
former one.  Similar for clothes, saddles, parts, etc.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 10, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Edwin W  wrote:
> 
> 
> Doug, looking at Marty's awesome google doc, it looks like:
> 1994-1998: 6 - All Rounder, Mountain Expedition, Long Low, Cyclo Cross, Heron
> 1999-2003: 5 - Atlantis, Rambo, Quickbeam, Romulus, Redwood
> 2004-2008: 6 - Saluki, Glorius, Wilbury Bleriot, AHH, Legolas
> 2009-2013: 7 - Bomba, Sam, Roadeo, Simpleone, Betty Foy, Yves Gomez (really 
> one bike), Hunqa
> 2014-2018: 8: Joe A, Cheviot, Clem, Rosco, Hubbu, Roadini, Frank Jones, Gus
> 
> So, I guess there is a slight trend toward new models. I don't think you can 
> say Betty and Yves are different models and Clem and Clementine are the same.
> 
> Edwin 
> 
>> On Wednesday, June 10, 2020 at 8:16:38 AM UTC-5, Doug Hansford wrote:
>> I've not been a Rivendell consumer and fan for as long as many of you, just 
>> about 4 or 5 years. Does Grant usually come out with new frame designs every 
>> year or two or has he been stepping it up lately with more offerings?
>> Doug Hansford
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, June 10, 2020 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-4, Mark Roland wrote:
>>> Yes, it's more road oriented than the Hillibikes, with shorter front 
>>> center, more bb drop. I think it's hard to judge the aesthetics of the 
>>> joints with the snapshot we have--those shadows don't help. Still, I don't 
>>> see a problem with it, and for road riding it gives plenty of extra 
>>> clearance. I like that it's not the same as the Hilli in that regard, 
>>> though there is the rumor that potentially significant changes could be 
>>> made.
>>> 
>>> Also looks like different fork. Hoping it will be tig-welded, or, as the 
>>> Hillibikes were first conceived, some of both (but that seems unlikely). I 
>>> just bought a Susie, so not flush, but I would buy a $900 f/f  tig version* 
>>> when it comes out. Just because it looks cool, and I know the ride will be 
>>> lots of fun. And I probably have all the parts I would need.
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 2:05:42 AM UTC-4, Hetchins52 wrote:
 
> What looks bad to me is the curved top tube of the Gallop joining the 
> seat tube at a significantly higher point than on the Gus/Susie. It 
> almost merges with the seat cluster of the Gallop and that detracts from 
> each element. If you're going to drop the top tube you might as well 
> provide a little more clearance.
  
> How is it different from the Gus/Susie? Tig welding versus fillet 
> brazing? That may allow for a major price break. The Gus/Susie family are 
> now $1800 for a frameset.
  
> Shorter top tube to allow for drops?
  
> And, we don't know if there will be 650b and 700c variants in the size 
> ranges.
 
 David Lipsky
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eric Daume]

I read somewhere Riv was planning on selling these as completes. Hopefully
framesets will be available as well. Like Mark, I have plenty of parts.

On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, Mark Roland  wrote:

> Yes, it's more road oriented than the Hillibikes, with shorter front
> center, more bb drop. I think it's hard to judge the aesthetics of the
> joints with the snapshot we have--those shadows don't help. Still, I don't
> see a problem with it, and for road riding it gives plenty of extra
> clearance. I like that it's not the same as the Hilli in that regard,
> though there is the rumor that potentially significant changes could be
> made.
>
> Also looks like different fork. Hoping it will be tig-welded, or, as the
> Hillibikes were first conceived, some of both (but that seems unlikely). I
> just bought a Susie, so not flush, but I would buy a $900 f/f  tig version*
> when it comes out. Just because it looks cool, and I know the ride will be
> lots of fun. And I probably have all the parts I would need.
>
> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 2:05:42 AM UTC-4, Hetchins52 wrote:
>>
>> What looks bad to me is the curved top tube of the Gallop joining the
>>> seat tube at a significantly higher point than on the Gus/Susie. It almost
>>> merges with the seat cluster of the Gallop and that detracts from each
>>> element. If you're going to drop the top tube you might as well provide a
>>> little more clearance.
>>
>>
>>
>>> How is it different from the Gus/Susie? Tig welding versus fillet
>>> brazing? That may allow for a major price break. The Gus/Susie family are
>>> now $1800 for a frameset.
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Shorter top tube to allow for drops?
>>>
>>
>>
>>> And, we don't know if there will be 650b and 700c variants in the size
>>> ranges.
>>>
>>
>> David Lipsky
>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[David Lipsky]

Garth,

Thanks for doing the overlay on the Susie, it is useful!
This schematic seems to show an 80mm BB drop for the Gallop. The Large Susie 
has a 70mm drop, so the Gallop is more “roadish” that way along with the 
shorter effective top tube.

I’m getting a Medium Susie (also orange) and the frame shape and high head tube 
look great to me!

David

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 4:54 AM, Garth  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> David , each size of the Susie looks different as the large I'll be getting 
> to me look great. I got it over the Clem because of that. It's not supposed 
> to be a step thru and if was designed the same as the Clem for slightly 
> larger tires the model distinction would be blurry. The higher top tube curve 
> also must add  also some stability/feel differences that you could only tell 
> if you rode them both back to back. The photo of the large Susie is from one 
> Riv's emails. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[R Shannon]

To Bruce's point, the Charlie Gallop looks more refined and will have a
ride to match. Love Charlie's graceful fork.

Abe, thanks for the visual comparisons.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:47 PM bruce.herbit...@gmail.com <
bruce.herbit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> VO has on other occasions mimicked what Rivendell has introduced. Usually
> made more cheaply and at a lower price point.
>
> On Tuesday, June 9, 2020, 01:09:36 PM CDT, Brian Campbell <
> bdcampbel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> VO is offering something similar:
>
> https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2020/05/mega-list-of-project-updates.html
>
> Drop tube/drop bar bikes are a " thing" now.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[bruce.herbit...@gmail.com]

 VO has on other occasions mimicked what Rivendell has introduced. Usually made 
more cheaply and at a lower price point.
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020, 01:09:36 PM CDT, Brian Campbell 
 wrote:  
 
 VO is offering something similar:
https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2020/05/mega-list-of-project-updates.html

Drop tube/drop bar bikes are a " thing" now.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Paul M]

I believe the schematic shows an oval top tube. Starts at 25.4 then 
transitions to oval (28.6/22.2). Makes for a more comfortable place to sit 
while stopped.

On Monday, 8 June 2020 18:16:47 UTC-7, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> I also saw the drawing had a 25.4mm non-oversized top tube. I hope Riv 
> sticks with this spec. 
>
> On Monday, June 8, 2020, Chris L > wrote:
>
>> The Gallop schematic that was posted on the Blahg a few months ago shows 
>> a 700c x 47 (724 mm diameter) tire specification.  I don't know if that 
>> type of schematic typically shows the biggest tire the bike is designed 
>> for. 
>>
>> I like this one.  I like the swooping top tube on the Gus and I like it 
>> on this bike.  The long front and rear makes for nice proportions.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 7:18:23 PM UTC-5, John G. wrote:
>>>
>>> The September email update teases a new bike: the Charlie H Gallop. 
>>> PREDICTIONS! GO!
>>>
>>> Mine: MIT lugged road-ish bike with Cantis. 650B even at the largest 
>>> size. Level top tube, but fewer size options.
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eric Daume]

I also saw the drawing had a 25.4mm non-oversized top tube. I hope Riv
sticks with this spec.

On Monday, June 8, 2020, Chris L  wrote:

> The Gallop schematic that was posted on the Blahg a few months ago shows a
> 700c x 47 (724 mm diameter) tire specification.  I don't know if that type
> of schematic typically shows the biggest tire the bike is designed for.
>
> I like this one.  I like the swooping top tube on the Gus and I like it on
> this bike.  The long front and rear makes for nice proportions.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 7:18:23 PM UTC-5, John G. wrote:
>>
>> The September email update teases a new bike: the Charlie H Gallop.
>> PREDICTIONS! GO!
>>
>> Mine: MIT lugged road-ish bike with Cantis. 650B even at the largest
>> size. Level top tube, but fewer size options.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eric Daume]

I just sold two bikes, so my bike fund is pretty flush right now. This CHG
is looking pretty good to me.

Fat tires and rim brakes and longish chainstays and a high bar position are
a pretty tough combo to find.

I even kind of like the top tube. It swoops in the correct direction,
unless some stylish cruisers that arc the top tube up. No sense in that.

Now to see if my bike fund balance lasts until orders are ready... and
hoping this is priced more like a Clem and less like a GBW.

Eric

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:29 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> Seen in Sal's instagram stories... reasonably good chance this is the
> prototype based on the geo diagram from an old blahg post. I'm not sold on
> the top tube yet, but like most Rivendell innovations, they take a while to
> absorb for me.
>
>
> [image: PSX_20200607_092254.jpg]
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[CB]

Flip your curved seat stays and you might be looking at an s-curve when 
combined with the swoop tube.
-- 
Carl

On June 8, 2020 2:46:42 PM PDT, "A. Douglas M."  wrote:
>The more I look at it, the more I understand it’s the contrast between
>the lone swoop and all the straight tubes that my eyes dislike. I think
>if the bike had more swoops, it would blend better. 
>
>
>I even made an awful drawing to illustrate.
>
>Best,
>
>Aaron
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[André P]

I could see it looking really amazing with decals. I tend to like riv's 
built up with a certain amount of "greebles." Bags, lights, racks (in 
moderation) all really make a more built up riv pop over a stripped down 
build (to me). Maybe Grant will do large clem swoop stays on larger models?

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 2:46:42 PM UTC-7, A. Douglas M. wrote:
>
> The more I look at it, the more I understand it’s the contrast between the 
> lone swoop and all the straight tubes that my eyes dislike. I think if the 
> bike had more swoops, it would blend better. 
>
>
> I even made an awful drawing to illustrate. 
>
> Best, 
>
> Aaron

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[A. Douglas M.]

The more I look at it, the more I understand it’s the contrast between the lone 
swoop and all the straight tubes that my eyes dislike. I think if the bike had 
more swoops, it would blend better. 


I even made an awful drawing to illustrate.

Best,

Aaron

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[CB]

I guess I should have said "this kinda looks like..." Thinking is always 
clearer once you see your words in print.
-- 
Carl

On June 8, 2020 2:24:49 PM PDT, Pancake  wrote:
>Grant's earlier description was: it's like a Sam Hillborne but fits
>wider 
>tires, has at least a swooping tube like the Suzie, and takes v-brakes.
>
>Sounds similar to this photo. 
>I'd like to see it with the fattest tires, some Losco bars, and swoopy
>seat 
>stays like the Clem. It'd be extra swoopy for form (matching or flowing
>
>from the top tube swoopiness) and function (getting that leg over
>doesn't 
>get easier with time). A little less toe overlap than my 56cm double
>top 
>tube Sam plus v-brakes and classy swoops ... that'll be sweet! Great
>look 
>at the progress on this prototype, like the dirt drop stem for sure. 
>
>Abe
>
>On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 10:44:36 AM UTC-7, tuolumne bikes wrote:
>>
>> Maybe another way to say it: this is a modern Rivendell redesign of
>the 
>> All-Rounder with long stays and swoop tube.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[masmojo]

I am not a fan of V brakes, I  don't have them on any of my bikes, but that's 
not to say anything is wrong with them. I just find them . . . Ah . . . Kind of 
boring. 
I do tend to build up bikes for other people with V-brakes for two reasons 
First, I have a few sets in my parts box and Two, I've seen V-brakes set up 
entirely wrong still stop a bike very well; the same can't be said about any 
other type of brake. Set up a Canti., caliper or disc brake wrong and they 
likely won't work well, if at all!
Any brake modulation issues I've experienced were related to not using the 
proper brake levers.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Drw]

I heard this talk about v brake modulation before switching over from cantis to 
v’s. Can’t say I’ve found it to be true with a set of Paul motolites  and a few 
shimano options.

Ugly, yes.
Not happily compatible with drops, yes.

But I’d consider all the ones I tried more powerful and of equal modulation. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Steve Palincsar]

You're right, the V brakes were from quite a long time ago now.  Back 
before Y2K.  But trust me, there is no power on earth that will get me 
to swap these Rene Herse cantilevers for V brakes.



When you have the best you can forget the rest.

And a Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

On 12/24/19 7:55 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

You need to try some decent current v-brakes. I remember the modulation issue 
from the early - Shimano Parallel Push was weird when the pivots got sloppy - 
but it's been ages since I've encountered it.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

You need to try some decent current v-brakes. I remember the modulation issue 
from the early - Shimano Parallel Push was weird when the pivots got sloppy - 
but it's been ages since I've encountered it. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Steve Palincsar]

I haven't used V brakes much, but every bike I've tried that had V 
brakes had zero modulation, purely binary like a light switch: all on or 
all off.  YMMV, but for me, simply no way.  Never in life.


On 12/24/19 6:48 PM, Eric Daume wrote:
Hair trigger modulation? Please. The V brakes on my Dahon have 
excellent modulation; similar to hydro disc brakes, among the best 
brakes I’ve used.


I had centerpulls on a 650b conversion that had excellent modulation 
and felt great. Until the rims were wet, then they lost all power. No 
thanks.


Eric


On Tuesday, December 24, 2019, Steve Palincsar > wrote:



On 12/24/19 6:20 PM, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 7:50:26 AM UTC-8, lconley wrote:

On the question of V-brakes vs. Centerpulls, in my opinion
V-brakes are:

   1. Just too ugly. A very subjective thing.
   2. Very hard to combine with wide/tall tires and fenders.




In practice, that is not a realistic "versus" question at all. 
There are no centerpulls that would fit onto V-brake brazed-on
posts.  While there is a centerpull that uses canti posts (which V
brakes also do) the posts would be positioned all wrong.  The
choice would be between V brakes and cantilevers, since a frame
equipped with brazed on posts suitable for the one would also be
suitable for the other.

Of course, you are right about V brake ugliness and crowding tall
tires and fenders.  You could also mention V brake hair-trigger
lack of modulation and incompatibility with road brake levers as cons.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

"I don't know why someone would pick them (centerpulls) when buying or 
designing a new frame."

The versus discussion started here. Because I've been around long enough to 
know you don't pick a production frame with canti posts, then start asking 
about centerpulls 

It was also duly answered. I'm so used to pullback bars that I forgot what a 
hassle it is to match v-brakes with dropbar levers. Add the fendering issues 
and there's oodles of reasons to pick centerpulls. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Eric Daume]

Hair trigger modulation? Please. The V brakes on my Dahon have excellent
modulation; similar to hydro disc brakes, among the best brakes I’ve used.

I had centerpulls on a 650b conversion that had excellent modulation and
felt great. Until the rims were wet, then they lost all power. No thanks.

Eric


On Tuesday, December 24, 2019, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
> On 12/24/19 6:20 PM, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:
>
> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 7:50:26 AM UTC-8, lconley wrote:
>>
>> On the question of V-brakes vs. Centerpulls, in my opinion V-brakes are:
>>
>>1. Just too ugly. A very subjective thing.
>>2. Very hard to combine with wide/tall tires and fenders.
>>
>
>
> In practice, that is not a realistic "versus" question at all.  There are
> no centerpulls that would fit onto V-brake brazed-on posts.  While there is
> a centerpull that uses canti posts (which V brakes also do) the posts would
> be positioned all wrong.  The choice would be between V brakes and
> cantilevers, since a frame equipped with brazed on posts suitable for the
> one would also be suitable for the other.
>
> Of course, you are right about V brake ugliness and crowding tall tires
> and fenders.  You could also mention V brake hair-trigger lack of
> modulation and incompatibility with road brake levers as cons.
>
>
> --
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/24/19 6:20 PM, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 7:50:26 AM UTC-8, lconley wrote:

On the question of V-brakes vs. Centerpulls, in my opinion
V-brakes are:

   1. Just too ugly. A very subjective thing.
   2. Very hard to combine with wide/tall tires and fenders.




In practice, that is not a realistic "versus" question at all. There are 
no centerpulls that would fit onto V-brake brazed-on posts.  While there 
is a centerpull that uses canti posts (which V brakes also do) the posts 
would be positioned all wrong.  The choice would be between V brakes and 
cantilevers, since a frame equipped with brazed on posts suitable for 
the one would also be suitable for the other.


Of course, you are right about V brake ugliness and crowding tall tires 
and fenders.  You could also mention V brake hair-trigger lack of 
modulation and incompatibility with road brake levers as cons.



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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Pancake]

At Riv HQ today Grant said something like, “roadies v-braked complete bike in 
similar style to Susie. Likely with the upcoming Riv made v-brakes, tig welds. 
We’ll see.” 

Sounds great to me - looking forward to those v-brakes. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[ted]

Again my mistake. 
As regards center pulls, post mounted or otherwise, or for that matter dual 
pivots with respect to v brakes I think choice of levers, aesthetics, or even 
just finding no defect in the non v brake alternative are reasons enough for a 
person to prefer non v brakes.
Which is not to suggest that you shouldn’t prefer v brakes over any other 
style. We are all entitled to our preferences.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

True and a lot of centerpull bikes have dropbars. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

"Sorry that was not my intention, so I apologize.
My bad."

It's all good, apparently I misunderstood it. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Drw]

I like v brakes a lot. In my experience they are definitely simpler and at 
least equal to any other rim brake. My problem with them is the drop bar lever 
selection. There are 2 options. One is known to crack and the other is hard to 
track down and not amazing.
A road bike, I assume, probably means drop bars. If rivendell or anyone wants 
to introduce a good long pull drop lever, I’d buy 5 sets. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[ted]

Sorry that was not my intention, so I apologize.
My bad.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

Also, the question was in response to a comment about centerpulls, then offered 
my own experience with them. The question is v-brakes v. centerpulls, not 
cantis. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

"Because the levers they like aren’t for v brakes?
Or they don’t see any significant down side to cantilever brakes?
Or they prefer the aesthetics?"

It was a sincere question. Answering my question with questions sounds 
sarcastic and patronizing to me. Should I not ask any more questions?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

I just read the AMA and my impression is Gallop is a roadish frame with long 
stays and the singlespeed is a different bike. This is the SS quote:

"We're working on a one-speed for late 2020."

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[ted]

Because the levers they like aren’t for v brakes?
Or they don’t see any significant down side to cantilever brakes?
Or they prefer the aesthetics?
I’ve yet to understand what the advantage of v brakes is.
Sure they work fine, but (in my experience) so do other kinds.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Patrick Moore]

I'm no expert, but my experience, such as it is, says that well set up
canti brakes have better modulation than V brakes which, like all the 3
sets of BB7 discs I've used, tend to be "snatchy" -- tho' this is all more
of an academic discussion point than a real problem. That is to say, the
grabby nature of V's and cable discs is noticeable but not problematical.

Yes, I agree, cable hangars are a pain, and I personally have always hated
setting up cantilevers with road bars and levers. That said, the best
brakes I've ever used, bar none -- and this "none" includes everything from
cable disks thru Altenberger dual pivots to Dura Ace centerpulls to
Bowden-cable-rod-brake hybrids -- were the IRDs wide profiles set up by Riv
on my erstwhile Sam. Braking paradise; after I sold that bike, I had to
come back to merely earthly braking performance.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 3:36 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Ok, let's roll that out. I had a frame with braze-ons for Paul Centerpulls
> so I bought them and they worked great. But there was all that business
> with cable hangers and stops and I don't think they worked any better than
> v-brakes. What's the benefit? It's not a sarcastic question, I genuinely
> don't know why someone would pick them when buying or designing a new
> frame.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[maxcr]

Did I read on the AMA that Charlie is a single speed with very long chain stays?
Max

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

Ok, let's roll that out. I had a frame with braze-ons for Paul Centerpulls so I 
bought them and they worked great. But there was all that business with cable 
hangers and stops and I don't think they worked any better than v-brakes. 
What's the benefit? It's not a sarcastic question, I genuinely don't know why 
someone would pick them when buying or designing a new frame. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Bruce Herbitter]

I agree about cantos mostly, but I have been very impressed by the stopping 
power of the Mafac centerpulls on my Waterford with a Terraferma fork. 
Centerpulls are easy to set up, but it does complicate front rackage.

YMMV.

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 20, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> I insisted my custom have no added bits for cantis, which are a gigantic 
> pain to set up with no appreciable braking or aesthetic improvement over 
> v-brakes. Gimme strong simple brakes and tire clearance all day long, if I 
> need more brake I'll buy a bike with discs. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Charlie H Gallop!

[Joe Bernard]

Yup, I think the future for Riv is in fillet frames with a seat lug. I'm ok 
with this, but I say so as a guy getting a fully lugged custom. I'm making sure 
I get my lugs now! 

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