Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jbh . tech]

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

I didn't look at its cover, I looked at the description, and it's filled with  
the type of stuff I see from social justice propaganda all the time. Also,  
nothing in the description is something I haven't heard before, and it's all  
stuff that I regard as illegitimate.


I'm sorry, but you can't make me buy into your ideology by putting it into a  
book, giving it a description that includes nonsense I've already dismissed  
time and time again, and telling me that I should both pay money for that  
book and dedicate precious time that I could spend doing something far more  
worthwhile reading that book instead.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jbh . tech]

Never judge a book by its cover, or something like that. :)

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jbh . tech]

"Even if it has some merit I think it would be a mistake to assume that the  
FSF would be doing nothing about it behind closed doors. This is not an  
appropriate conversation to have with anyone outside of the organization."


Yeah, I would hope so too. However, it's very difficult to tell this from the  
official FSF response about this issue. I think the FSF can do a better job  
with that response and let folks know they are (and maybe always do) handle  
things like this appropriately ... instead of appearing to deny and ignore.


"And I certainly won't be suspending donations over what is almost certainly  
a false allegation."


I don't know how you can say this without having more info. I mean, I get how  
you won't suspend your donations, but not how you know it's "almost certainly  
a false allegation."


What do you all do at ThinkPenguin to ensure a welcoming, warm, safe  
environment for your employees?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

> Bigotry is a much more up-front, in your face action whereas discrimination  
can take place in subtle ways


You still have it wrong. Discrimination is treating people (or potentially  
other things) differently. Bigotry is a belief that a group of people is  
inferior to another group. These are two totally different things. Bigotry is  
backwards, but it's not unethical because it's just what someone believes.  
Discrimination based on bigotry is unethical because it's an actual action  
that affects people.


> I'm curious what you all think of the book "Whipping Girl: A Transexual  
Woman on Sexism"?


I couldn't care less. I've never heard of it and have no intention of reading  
it. From reading a description of it, it sounds like nothing more than  
propaganda.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[chris]

You make the assumption that it's not a warm and welcoming environment to  
begin with. The FSF has had other transgender persons (and LGBT folks).  
Nobody except for this one third party has ever made any claims indicating  
it's not warm and welcoming environment. The other people here who actually  
are transgender and/or LGBT and know the people involved well are saying none  
of what Leah Rowe is saying adds up. Even if we had someone that didn't have  
this past history of problematic claims we shouldn't just accept such a  
serious allegation as fact. It's only reasonable to assume innocence unless  
some pretty substantial evidence is provided to the contrary.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[infinityfallen]

Thank you for pointing these things out. I was unaware of the things you have  
pointed out.


I failed to specify it in my original comment, but I do not condone the use  
of 'mental illness' to refer to 'alternative mental wirings'. My statement  
was meant to refer to the fact that being transgender, as well as some other  
various personal attributes, appear to derive from differences in the brain  
of the individual. However, they are not 'ill' and most definitely do not  
need to be 'cured'. I apologise if any offence was taken at the implication.


I was unaware of any prior behaviour being associated. Presuming my  
interpretation of the statement is correct (some behaviours are exhibited  
which suggest this is not merely 'high emotions'), I still stand by the  
statements made above, with the modifications mentioned above, but cede that  
my judgement may be incorrect.


As regards the need for compassion, I agree. Whilst I feel that Leah's  
behaviour needs to be addressed, she is suffering right now. She needs care  
and understanding more than anything right now.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jbh . tech]

I never stated FSF/GNU/Ruben are guilty of what Leah Rowe claims. I do  
believe that they are not perfect and that they have a lot of room for  
growth, especially as it pertains to being inclusive and welcoming as  
individuals and as organizations. I'm confident of this statement because I  
know ALL of us have room for this kind of growth.


I believe that there's enough possibility that something really shitty  
happened to this ex-employee as there is enough possibility that there is a  
serious misunderstanding or it's all made up. Either way, I think folks  
should take this seriously and withhold donations until it's ironed out.


"HELL no. That would not be a "win", that would be an unreasonable  
concession."


Ok, fair enough. What is your desired outcome from this? What would be a  
"win" for you and for other trans folks? In your opinion, what would be a win  
for those of us who've experienced similar issues with the FSF and Trisquel?


To me, it's not about setting up a "protected class," per se. In this case,  
we're talking about transgender folks, but we could be talking about anyone,  
even old wealthy white dudes. I think it's about cutting through the bullshit  
of did it or did it not happen and moving into the healing process of what  
can we do to help more folks feel comfortable contributing to and working  
with the FSF, to GNU projects, Trisquel, and to Free Software in general.


Sure, it's possible Leah Rowe and/or the ex-employee are making all of this  
up. Yet, even if that is the case, there's still room for the FSF/GNU and  
Ruben to grow from this experience and truly move towards a welcoming and  
warm environment for everyone.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

> The potential victim is an ex-employee of the FSF. Leah Rowe is doing the  
right thing by bringing attention to this issue and supporting the potential  
victim.


No. Leah has not provided one shred of evidence for what supposedly happened,  
or even explained what supposedly happened. If her accusation is true, there  
are proper venues for the ex-employee to use. Spreading rumors is not one of  
them.


> For me, Leah's story about the ex-employee rings true as I can imagine  
folks being hateful and ignorant in situations like that.


I can imagine a Tyrannosaurus rampaging through New York City. That doesn't  
make it reality.


I can also imagine plenty of reasons why a vindictive ex-employee who was  
fired for legitimate reasons might want to spread false allegations about her  
former employer. I'm not going to claim that's what's happening here; I don't  
know. But the point is, it's not rational to assume that the FSF is guilty of  
discrimination because someone says so (without even explaining what  
supposedly happened, let alone providing evidence) just because you can  
imagine it happening.


> you've seen this kind of discrimination (sexism, transphobia, misogyny,  
racism, classism, etc...) yourself or you've done it yourself.


Nope, never. And by the way, bigotry and discrimination are not the same  
thing, as you suggest they are.


> It's equally wrong to say that Ruben (quidam) is completely innocent  
without seeing more information.


No, it's wrong to do anything but presume innocence until evidence of guilt  
is presented. No evidence of guilt has been presented.


> P.S. I single out Ruben here because I know he reads this forum

No, he doesn't. He only reads what is specifically pointed out to him e.g. on  
IRC.


> if he's not at least reading through this topic, then he's far more messed  
up than Leah describes.


This is nonsensical drama based on accusations without evidence. It's quite  
funny, but I don't want Ruben wasting his time on this.


> Ruben, you know what would win you a lot of points in this situation ... if  
you wrote a comment here admitting your imperfections, admitting that you  
need help understanding and accepting transgender folks, and asking for  
suggestions on how to make this forum, Trisquel, and the other projects you  
work on (maybe including the FSF) more inclusive.


HELL no. That would not be a "win", that would be an unreasonable concession.  
Ruben doesn't need help "understanding and accepting transgender folks".  
Transgender people are just that: people. We don't need to be treated like  
some sort of protected class. I don't want to be in a protected class.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[bernardlprf]

"I'm in agreement with Leah that folks should stop donating to GNU and FSF  
until something more substantial has been done by them."

Do you know what Innocent until proven guilty means ?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jbh . tech]

Ruben (quidam) and the rest of yous need to take this situation seriously and  
try hard not to blame the victim. The potential victim is an ex-employee of  
the FSF. Leah Rowe is doing the right thing by bringing attention to this  
issue and supporting the potential victim. The FSF's official response  
doesn't address the situation correctly nor adequately and it's clear that  
more work needs to be done within that organization ... that is, if the  
organization truly intends to be inclusive of all people.


I'm in agreement with Leah that folks should stop donating to GNU and FSF  
until something more substantial has been done by them.


As RMS stated, the official action taken by the FSF was unrelated to the  
gender of the employee. This may be true, however, he needs to insist that  
the FSF look into the UNOFFICIAL actions of its employees, especially those  
actions that may have caused this ex-employee harm.


For me, Leah's story about the ex-employee rings true as I can imagine folks  
being hateful and ignorant in situations like that. IT HAPPENS at every  
workplace. I think this is the reason it potentially rings true to all of you  
as well, either because you've seen this kind of discrimination (sexism,  
transphobia, misogyny, racism, classism, etc...) yourself or you've done it  
yourself.


Can the FSF make improvements to make their workplace safer and more  
welcoming to more people? Yes, definitely. It's wrong to say that somehow the  
FSF has a perfect work environment. It's equally wrong to say that Ruben  
(quidam) is completely innocent without seeing more information.


Lots of things many take for granted may need to be changed in order to be a  
more inclusive and welcoming organization. For instance, the lack of co-ed  
bathrooms and not putting preferred gender fields in personnel files and on  
ID badges may contribute to a more difficult experience for transgender  
employees.


So, no, the FSF and Ruben are not perfect and they never will be. It's now up  
to them to admit that they're not perfect and learn from their mistakes, even  
if their mistakes don't involve the situation Leah describes. They need to  
break through the machismo surrounding this conversation by humbling  
themselves and being open to the possibility that the three people Leah  
mentions did something hurtful. If they can't admit this basic fact about not  
being perfect and if they cannot remain open about this important issue, then  
yeah, Leah's totally right about them not deserving to be around anymore.


P.S. I single out Ruben here because I know he reads this forum and he's one  
of the three folks listed by the Libreboot project as having to be removed  
from the FSF. I know he reads this forum because he recently posted in  
another forum topic  
(https://trisquel.info/en/forum/what-happened-freedom-fridays#comment-102880)  
and if he's not at least reading through this topic, then he's far more  
messed up than Leah describes.


P.P.S Ruben, you know what would win you a lot of points in this situation  
... if you wrote a comment here admitting your imperfections, admitting that  
you need help understanding and accepting transgender folks, and asking for  
suggestions on how to make this forum, Trisquel, and the other projects you  
work on (maybe including the FSF) more inclusive. We've all made mistakes, we  
all need to learn more about transgender and LGBT issues, and we all need to  
admit this to ourselves and to those around us.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[chris]

I think people tend to use the word 'mental health' to say it nicely. Leah  
may have a problem that is unrelated to being transgender even if her  
behaviour may somewhat resemble someone in an early phase of transitioning.  
What I think people are associating is paste behaviour which pre-date this  
transition. 'Mental health' is a term used to describe a wide range of health  
related problems and does not mean someone is 'crazy'.

[Trisquel-users] Re : Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[lcerf]

The command you mention removes all .c files in the working directory and  
below, unless you mistyped it like other members of this forum wrote. If you  
did not mistype the command, then you must have done something else that led  
to the involuntary remotion of many of your files.

Re: [Trisquel-users] What happened to Freedom Fridays?

[em9002]

No worries.  It's just that it was exciting to see the development progress  
for Trisquel 8.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[infinityfallen]

I agree with you that she is acting irrationally, and am also confident you  
have no intention of causing offence. However, please be aware that there is  
a difference between "strong emotions" (from which Leah is undoubtedly  
suffering right now) and "mental illness".


Mental illness is a malfunctioning of the brain, whereby it behaves in such a  
way as to cause detriment to the human suffering from the illness. The term  
is also often used to refer to what I would call "alternative mental wiring",  
where the 'malfunction' is both permanent and harmless. Leah does exhibit  
such an alternative mental wiring (being transgender), but (as you have  
mentioned) that was not to what you were referring. In case it needs to be  
mentioned, I in no way condemn or believe such alternative mental wirings to  
be problematic; I myself exhibit one, and am not at all ashamed of it.


High emotions often cause similar symptoms to certain mental illnesses, but  
they are not malfunctions. Rather, they are a core part of the human body's  
defence mechanism. Irrationality is not a failing of these, but rather a key  
part of maximising mental agility in situations where it is needed.


Whilst I honestly do believe you had no intention of harming anybody, please  
do be aware that calling sudden outbursts of irrational or childish behaviour  
"mental illness" helps reinforce public stigma against and misunderstanding  
of mental illness. Recent public discussion of such issues has been extremely  
problematic in this regard, no doubt due to the presence of a high-profile  
political candidate whose behaviour is extremely offensive to an array of  
different groups, and it is thus particularly important now to ensure "mental  
illness" does not become synonymous with "offensive/irrational behaviour".


Once again, please note that I do not take offence at your choice of words. I  
just hope you realise the potential damage such applications of the term  
"mental illness" cause, and will consider attempting not to use it in such  
contexts in future.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[infinityfallen]

It appears I can't edit the original comment, but you're right in saying  
there is no evidence for the claims. The statement "evidence is scarce" was  
regarding all accusations made (e.g. firing a trans employee), some of which  
are supported, but context didn't make that particularly clear.


As regards your other statements, I agree whole-heartedly. I can't draw on  
personal experience, not being transgender myself. However, it both saddens  
and infuriates me to see Leah trying to exploit a perfectly legitimate cause  
to turn what appears to be a perfectly normal firing into a tech-media  
sensation. I accept that she is likely very emotional about this issue, and  
she has a right to be. I just wish she would direct that anger to the FSF  
privately first, rather than publicly smearing the most prominent free  
software organisation around over unfounded accusations.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[calmstorm]

I guess I don't know what is going on then...

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[calmstorm]

Absolutely not, I just thought she must be suffering from a mental illness  
because of the fact that she is acting irrational.


She thinks that attacking the free software foundation because of what she  
thinks is discrimination by trying to get people to boycott/get them to leave  
even though she supports free software is a good idea.


but the truth is, she is not thinking this through.

Her project is tied to free software right? well why would she attack the  
very organization that gives her project life?


isn't that irrational?

I just thought as i connected the dots that she must be suffering from some  
mental illness, I am not trying to be offensive I assure you.


On the contrary I would like to help her if I can get back to a wholeness  
where she can think straight.


I wish those around her the best of luck trying...

Re: [Trisquel-users] If Rubén harassed Libreboot's Leah Rowe, he should be fired and Trisquel shut down

[bernardlprf]

I can't after someone replies (made a screenshot), only a mod can (I think)  
(if mods wants to waist time go fore it I don't mind)


LW is a man who consider itself has a woman, this concept is new to me and  
honestly, I don't care about it.


I only care about work and free software, libreboot is under gpl that's what  
matters.


The internet has given us a wonderful tool of anonymity between us, it has  
removed ridicules barriers.

We have the chance to work with less bullshit.

Why would a person want to say publicly this kind of private life and then  
ask everyone to not mention it, plus anyone can say anything that can't be  
verified.


I could do the same thing and explain one of the horrible things that  
happened in my life and ask to never say x word because it makes me sad.

But I don't.
I have grown up and understood that I need to adapt to the world, to learn  
from it and it's not by putting more barriers with other people that I can  
achieve that, we can only achieve that by building bridges.


In one way you can interpret what I say that I am making a barrier, by  
refusing to acknowledges is desires.
And I'll shall respond that he is the one who imposes me that condition, sure  
it's not a specific hard condition but I could say that after the fiasco that  
he maid, he has lost all my respect and I'll shall not agree with him until  
he comes to reasons.


And it's also an bad way of doing because it will ultimately make him agree  
and piss him off witch brings to nowhere.


So what do we do ?

Do I make the first move ? do you do it ? does he make it ?

But why did this all happened in the first place ?

Because someone wanted to identify to X and then someone else used it online  
to justify X.


Do you think this is ethical ? using gender (or whatever) has a mean to shame  
and slander with no proof the FSF ? who only cares about everyones freedom ?


and I'm only unfortunately adding oil to the fire because I just want to  
speak without bullshit.


Do you think this is also normal that I have to think at the exact words to  
not offend someone ?


This has bean discussed already discussed by Marshall B. Rosenberg in his  
very nice book "non-violent communication" I agree with most of the book but  
I can't stand the fact that I can't say a specific word without having a rain  
of shitstorm happening.


Do you understand what I am trying to say.
I don't what to be mean to people, because it's not my thing and it leads to  
nowhere.
But when I (and others) wright something I don't want to have the trouble of  
adding unnecessary terms or changing them just because a small group of  
people will be sad.


I think this is silly, it's tiring and it brings more problems that it solves  
(especially in the French language).

Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

Readers must note: The message to which I'm replying to has more content
than what appears in the forums, see the same comment in the
trisquel-users mailing list for the complete message (with more command
options):



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[tegskywalker]

Are you insinuating that she has a mental illness due to her transgender  
status?

Re: [Trisquel-users] If Rubén harassed Libreboot's Leah Rowe, he should be fired and Trisquel shut down

[bernardlprf]

t3g calm down please :)
You reaction is I think exaggerated.
When you read what LW has wrote it's completely wrong from the beginning.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html

You don't act like a child when this sort of thing happens you don't go all  
berserk and say "fuck you, fuck this and fuck the world".

He is only burning bridges himself it's not the FSF fault.

He hasn't given any proof of anything.
We won't have more of any thing except if the said fired person desires to  
speak (private life seems to be at risk).

https://twitter.com/ladyaeva/status/777203687596916736

He even ask for refund from all the donation he made to the FSF
https://libreboot.org/gnu/
https://sealion.club/file/f226e8f2d46d1fb028136b01601e45dc0ec2eb2b6f7d4549d9c71e306349998b.png

Like Abjectio posted
RMS and the FSF has made is point.

Everything is all finished nothing to see it was never because of  
discriminatory reasons.

Re: [Trisquel-users] If Rubén harassed Libreboot's Leah Rowe, he should be fired and Trisquel shut down

[dguthrie]

> He hasn't given any proof of anything.
Leah is a woman. This is well known. Correct this please.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[adel]

It's patronizing and maybe unfair to attribute Leah's comments to "problems"  
(personal, mental health, whatever), I think.  I agree with you in principle  
though ... everyone has problems and goes through difficult times.  Great,  
now I'm patronizing and unfair too.


Leah's allegation is more a conclusion than her version of the facts (I only  
know what I read in this topic).  There's nothing substantive for the FSF to  
respond to.  It doesn't tell us much that the FSF's conclusion is the  
opposite of Leah's, except that it is the opposite of Leah's.


I can't help but wonder whether there is more to this story.  

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[dguthrie]

There is no evidence she is suffering from a mental illness. 

Re: [Trisquel-users] What happened to Freedom Fridays?

[calmstorm]

oh and by the way, good idea changing the trisquel desktop to mate.

I don't know if that's going to be the only desktop but I hope trisquel mini  
will at least remain on the repository...


Is there a way I can donate without paypal or bitcoin?

If credit card is an option I will do so, I have enjoyed trisquel greatly.

Re: [Trisquel-users] What happened to Freedom Fridays?

[calmstorm]

I think you may need some more help doing this stuff.

Why not enlist someone else to help you in the updates of trisquel 7 so you  
can work on trisquel 8?


Just make a thread asking for a helper who has a lot of programming  
experience and have them to the updates for trisquel 7.


You can always reject this idea but I don't think you should screw yourself  
over in doing all of this ALONE...


I make emphasis on ALONE because it could deprive you of sleep and sanity...

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[calmstorm]

hmm... I hope she can recover from whatever mental illness she is suffering  
from.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[calmstorm]

I would agree wholeheartedly.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[calmstorm]

Ah, but it does have the same form of anger... alas true and sad...

Re: [Trisquel-users] If Rubén harassed Libreboot's Leah Rowe, he should be fired and Trisquel shut down

[jason]

And notice that the target was quietly changed. Originally libreboot.org/gnu  
claimed "a transgender employee at the FSF was being harassed" but here in  
this thread t3g has quietly turned that into Leah Rowe. Some facts:
1. Leah is not and has never been employed by the FSF. Their list of  
employees can be found at http://www.fsf.org/about/staff-and-board. Feel free  
to check the Internet Archive's Wayback machine for history to confirm. And  
so, the "transgender employee at the FSF was being harassed" could not have  
been Leah Rowe.

2. Leah has never made any claim that she herself was harassed by Rubén.

From what we can tell, Leah made the decision to remove libreboot from the  
GNU Project because of this other person being supposedly being harassed in a  
show of solidarity, not because she herself was.


It's important to keep things straight over what people claim and avoid  
mixing things around.

Re: [Trisquel-users] If Rubén harassed Libreboot's Leah Rowe, he should be fired and Trisquel shut down

[abjectio]

Ehhh t3g : Don't you believe these statements?

http://www.fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-statement
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00052.html

Re: [Trisquel-users] If Rubén harassed Libreboot's Leah Rowe, he should be fired and Trisquel shut down

[gromobir]

What are trying to achieve with this new thread? Pouring more oil into the  
fire? Shouldn't we first wait for the facts? The list of facts we have at  
hand so far is:


- Libreboot left the GNU project
- There are many wild accusations from many parties out there

Anything else is just pure speculation. Why should the Trisquel project be  
shut down? Because of (so far unproven) accusations? I don't think so...

[Trisquel-users] If Rubén harassed Libreboot's Leah Rowe, he should be fired and Trisquel shut down

[tegskywalker]

If Rubén is breaking any workplaces discriminatory laws, he should be gone  
and all funding should be pulled from Trisquel. In return, to send a message,  
the Trisquel project should be shut down as well.


This could be a good thing as it will encourage another free software  
alternative to Ubuntu and get some fresh blood in the FLOSS scene. Rubén has  
broken promises and taken way too long to release Trisquel 8 and at this  
point, it may not happen. Especially if he is taken to court for harassing a  
transgender employee.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[chris]

It seems that most people are seeing through the accusations regardless of  
what they see as the reason for the post. I don't think it's hurting the FSF  
is the least. There are legitimate gripes about the FSF, people within, and  
people at similar organizations, etc. However we need to step back and  
realize no organization and no person is perfect. Take a deep breath. I've  
had good friends essentially attack me who saw things from the other side of  
an issue. They said things like "I'll never work with anybody X list" where X  
list was signing in support of person Y who later turned out to be largely  
falsely accused. Person Y may not have been the nicest person in the world  
and he may have had a sexual social preference that some people didn't like,  
but that didn't make him a rapist.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[tegskywalker]

Its interesting that Rubén is mentioned in this post. I'm guessing since  
Rubén has a Hispanic background, there may be some religious upbringing on  
his behalf that may have fueled some discriminatory comments towards Leah.


If Rubén gets axed, does that mean that Trisquel gets dissolved as well?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

Sorry, I know I'm dumb in most things (and slow also, :D), but I
wouldn't go that far as to call someone a dumb/donkey person. Besides,
my portrait is indeed not ideal, but it's the best I have for now. :)

So, regarding the incident: Perhaps I know what happened... Although I'm
not sure how your .bashrc got into the mess...

The issue is that, when xargs receives the path names, the spaces are,
by default, field separators. E.g.:

find -name "*copyright.markdown"

... would find the following paths, starting from my home directory:

./Público/Vídeos/Direito autoral e copyright.markdown
./Público/Documentos/Direito autoral e copyright.markdown

Since xargs understands spaces as field separators, and since find
doesn't put quotes every time it prints a path, then if we would pass it
to xargs, it would understand the following:

"./Público/Vídeos/Direito" "autoral" "e" "copyright.markdown"
"./Público/Documentos/Direito" "autoral" "e" "copyright.markdown"

What we could have done is:

while read -r each_path; do
  rm -rf "$each_path"
done <

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Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[tegskywalker]

Just saw this from  
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=FSF-RMS-Statements-Libreboot:


"Update: Leah Rowe has contacted me to say that there's now this  
Libreboot.org page with their side: Leah is now calling not just for the  
resignation/firing of the executive director but also the two employees  
allegedly involved in this incident. She is also calling for a boycott on the  
FSF and more projects to leave the GNU. She is also seeking that the Free  
Software Foundation refund $6120 USD she has reportedly donated to them since  
last year."

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[gromobir]

There is now an official announcement from Libreboot:  
https://libreboot.org/gnu/


This whole issue is wrong on so many levels and does so much harm to the GNU  
project, the FSF and (most of all) to Libreboot itself. Let's hope that all  
involved parties can soon talk things through and fix this once and for all.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[mkl80]

Sirs are you joking with me?
this command is a blue print of my history file. here it is again:
416  sudo find . -name "*.c" | xargs rm -rf
There is no "c*" nor "*c*"!!! Common! If I had used such a command it was in  
the history file! More it would then had removed all files and not just  
Documents and Download directories! And this is not a strange command is a  
simple one that I have used before just was trainning to remenber how to use  
a find command if I wanted to delete a file! Brazuca burro com mania de  
esperto, tira essa foto estupida do teu perfil!

Re: [Trisquel-users] What happened to Freedom Fridays?

[noordinaryspider]

Thanks, Quidam. You take care of you, kiddo. That's a lot to deal with. You  
need to prioritize and let some of it go for awhile.


Eat. Sleep. Breathe.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[chris]

We should be supportive of Leah, but not of the accusations. It seems to me  
that the majority of people have problems. Some are more apparent than others  
and we should look at it in that context. If you had problems wouldn't you  
want people to support you as well? Leah has severe problems and we should  
look at it in this context. We should neither fry John, Rubén, or Stephen,  
nor be angry with Leah for making these accusations. What we need to do is  
take a deep breath and hope that Leah gets better.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

I tested your command with:

find -name "*.c" | less

... And got every good match, except ".bashrc".

You must have used:

find -name "*c"

... to result in such a mess.

Every time I work with the command line, I do multiple tests to make
sure things would work as expected, and since I'm slow, it takes some
hours to get things running the way I intend them to. Still, even after
testing, some times they work as intended, and other times I have to
test again.
--- Begin Message ---
I am still in chock! The last thing i know i was training with find command  
using xarg to remove files, like explaining in this page:

ekstuff.com/2013/12/xargs-examples/
I was in using this command to erase some *.c files that i created in porpose  
and then I shut down my system. Later on when I started my machine my  
Document and Download folder were gone. Auto-completion and color ls were  
also not working, so I assume bashrc file was gone too wich I confirmed so  
far!
This is incredible I lost important files! This is serious! How this is  
possible only by training some find command. this is my last command from my  
history command before all broke down:

463  sudo find . -name "*.c" | xargs rm -rf
Why this happened? Is it possible to regain my losted files? This is a very  
serious thing if happens with somebody else!



p.s. I have backups from my files luckily it is not so bad! But still is a  
very serious issue if happens to somebody who don't make regularly backup  
files!



--- End Message ---


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Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[dguthrie]

Recover with photorec/testdisk.
Don't run weird commands without understanding them. I have no idea what the  
command does. It looks strange though.
If the bashrc file is gone as well as documents you probably did "*c*"  
instead of "*.c".
Make frequent backups. Always. 

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[chris]

I know all the parties involved in this spat pretty well except for Stephen  
Mahood and at least for everybody else I'd say none are remotely homophobic  
or transphobic. Based on my experience with Leah is any indicator I'll  
probably be brought into this next for making this statement.

[Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[mkl80]

I am still in chock! The last thing i know i was training with find command  
using xarg to remove files, like explaining in this page:

ekstuff.com/2013/12/xargs-examples/
I was in using this command to erase some *.c files that i created in porpose  
and then I shut down my system. Later on when I started my machine my  
Document and Download folder were gone. Auto-completion and color ls were  
also not working, so I assume bashrc file was gone too wich I confirmed so  
far!
This is incredible I lost important files! This is serious! How this is  
possible only by training some find command. this is my last command from my  
history command before all broke down:

463  sudo find . -name "*.c" | xargs rm -rf
Why this happened? Is it possible to regain my losted files? This is a very  
serious thing if happens with somebody else!



p.s. I have backups from my files luckily it is not so bad! But still is a  
very serious issue if happens to somebody who don't make regularly backup  
files!

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[dguthrie]

> *Tehnoetic anger towards thinkpenguin/Luke*
this is more than a forum spat

Re: [Trisquel-users] What happened to Freedom Fridays?

[ruben]

I'm quite busy at the moment but I'm trying my best to find time for the  
project. I think I should focus on T7 updates and security for a while, and  
come back to T8 development as soon as I can (even if it is tempting to spend  
time with the new toy!). I'll publish updates as I go along.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[calmstorm]

I tried emailing her to tell her in a more gentle tone that this isn't doing  
anyone any good.


She hasn't responded so I can only assume that she has lost her damn mind.

Read my post that is further down and you will get a good idea what I am  
thinking...


*Tehnoetic anger towards thinkpenguin/Luke* that is what this reminds me of.

Unjustified anger and foolishness...

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[calmstorm]

Well if none of this is true at all, how sad that is then...

I hope Leah changes her ways and realizes she was in the wrong.

But moreover, this feels almost like the same anger that the founder of  
Tehnoetic had towards chris from thinkpenguin and Luke the creator of the  
EOMA68 standard...


Another words, false and unnecessary...

more and more curious... hm...

regardless we shouldn't shun her or be mean to her, that will only make her  
feel justified in her anger.


However, we shouldn't condone her actions either since they are not true.

Very tricky... mhm.

Re: [Trisquel-users] What happened to Freedom Fridays?

[jason]

I suspect that Rubén didn't have the time to continue them. But now that the  
FSF is down to one sysadmin (Rubén himself) I doubt that he will have even  
less time now, at least until a replacement sysadmin is hired.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[dguthrie]

ruben rodriguez is sysadmin at fsf, and develops trisquel.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jason]

" So is it true that libreboot leaves the gnu project?"

Yes, Leah says she removed it from the GNU Project. That can be seen in her  
message although https://www.gnu.org/software/ still says it's a GNU Package  
but perhaps that just hasn't been updated. Although that question seems  
unimportant. Libreboot still exists regardless. The whole thing is, in my  
view, an overreaction to the events that happened especially given that they  
appear to be false.

[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[shiretoko]

Thanks for clarification!
Now that we're talking about name confusion, somebody in this thread stated  
that one of the potential harrasers is a guy called "rubin rodriguez"... is  
it the trisquel lead developer leah is accusing?


Again, I'm neutral here. I can't say who is right or wrong, but I clearly  
will not conclude that Leah is a liar just because the fsf published some  
generic "we're not the bad ones" message.
At the same time, I will not see the fsf as an evil transphobic organization,  
since Leahs accusations are not proven right by now.

I think we should all stay neutral and fair.
Maybe there will be some clarification in the future.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

I hadn't either, but it takes seconds to confirm that it is the name of the  
Libreboot developer (just check the Git repository), and while you can't see  
it since you're not subscribed to the mailing list, the email address matches  
as well. (There's a "reply" button that will show you the email address after  
a redirect.) The main point, though, is that no one has been questioning the  
origin of these emails or their author's connection to Libreboot.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Foxconn T77H348.02 with Atheros AR9462 AR5B22 chipset and Bluetooth support with the "ATH9K"

[dguthrie]

with debian the driver looks for the firmware and then if it can't find it,  
it says "possible missing firmware".

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[dguthrie]

I'm neutral in the issue
But this is standard statement

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[dguthrie]

name change
same person

[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[shiretoko]

Well, excuse me for not having heard of this Leah Rowe before.
I did hear the name Rowe once in context of libreboot, but it was somehow a  
different one...francis rowe?

Don't know anymore.
So of course i have no clue who is representing the libreboot project  
officially and can decide whether to leave GNU or not.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[keiyamashita]

You aren't the only one thinking about it in this light:  
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00055.html.


I wonder how often employers consider this when employing trans people. I  
hate that things like this can ignite even without anything actually  
happening. I think that regardless of the truth of her statement, the way she  
handled it does more harm to the LGBT+ people in free software like us than  
anything else.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[greatgnu]

The dismissal of the staff person was not because of her gender. Her gender  
now is the same as it was when we hired her. It was not an issue then, and it  
is not an issue now.
 

Re: [Trisquel-users] Black screen on cold boot with full disk encryption

[dguthrie]

what chipset is it?
if it's a funny nvidia one, get rid of it and see if you're processor, intel  
we assume, will have integrated graphics.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

The evidence isn't just scarce, there's no evidence at all.

Misunderstanding or not, Leah is clearly in the wrong here. This type of  
behavior, making a public accusation without evidence in an obvious attempt  
to bring a hate mob against the FSF, is unethical. It's also only detrimental  
to the cause she claims to support; when people are ready to start a  
shitstorm any time a trans person gets fired for any reason, employing any  
trans person in the first place is a liability.


On a personal level, I don't believe for a second that Leah's accusations are  
true.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

What are you talking about? If this were an impostor, Leah Rowe would be able  
to inform everyone about it in seconds. And that's assuming the email headers  
were perfectly forged, which I don't know the technical details of, but if  
they weren't, then that would easily raise suspicion among all those  
subscribed to the mailing list. (Detectably forged email headers usually  
raise red flags in email clients.)


Every email indicated to be from Leah Rowe is only confirming the original  
email, and most recently even taking it further by demanding for John  
Sullivan to resign after flat-out calling him a liar.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Black screen on cold boot with full disk encryption

[andre . buesgen]

I could solve the issue.
There was a problem between vesa and nouveau trying to access my graphics  
card concurrent at boot time.
This ended in a deadlock. It seems that the chipset of my card is wasnt  
correct recognized by nouveau or vesa.

I took a more recent linux-libre kernel and now everything works as expected.
If anyone is interested in more details please let me know.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[infinityfallen]

Leah has named the two people she blames for bullying the fired employee as  
Stephen Mahood and Rubin Rodriguez, accusing the FSF of 'lying' in their  
public statement:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00053.html

I have my suspicions about these discrimination claims. The evidence is too  
scarce to speak with any certainty, but RMS's statement and well-established  
history of support for equality (in gender identity and other areas),  
combined with the hardships and consequential anger derived from both being a  
minority and losing one's job, make me suspect that a large part of this is a  
misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation.


Hopefully the situation is resolved as quickly and amicably as possible, with  
(if necessary) suitable action being taken to ensure the FSF and GNU provide  
a safe environment for people of all varieties to learn about and contribute  
to freedom in computing.

[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[shiretoko]

This is not at all concerning the topic of this thread. It only says that the  
fsf denies the accusations (I'm completely neutral here since I have no clue  
what was going on) while the topic is about statements from libreboot.

So is it true that libreboot leaves the gnu project?
Did the accusations really come from the libreboot people or where they  
spread by somebody else just for fun?

Maybe somebody has information on this.