+1
On 1 Feb 2011, at 02:31, Ben Forta wrote:
I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever.
--- Ben
Mark Drew
Railo Technologies UK
Professional Open Source
skype: mark_railo
email: m...@getrailo.com
gtalk: m...@getrailo.com
tel:+44 7971 85 22
Dave, your right it doesn't seem to have made much difference yet, but as I
have said many times before is the fact that the cf community does not
cover the entire cf user base. There are a huge number of developers and
users out there who do not participate in the community. Customers with CF
then move it there.
+1
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Paul Hastings p...@sustainablegis.comwrote:
On 2/1/2011 12:46 PM, denstar wrote:
First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on
cf-community.
then move it there.
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Paul Hastings wrote:
On 1/31/2011 11:02 AM, denstar wrote:
It was based on a percent. So I guess the real number would be 170
out of a 1000. I think. 17%? I suck at math.
you said 17 out of 100 people who replied to that survey. that's a useless
sample
Denny,
I think you see the world as you would hope it to be, not for the reality
that it is. A commendable quality, but not one Adobe can choose to share
with so many CFML careers on the line. It's been 3 years since OpenBD/Railo
went open source and removed the price barrier to CFML adoption. 3
for all intensive purposes
Must.Resist.
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive:
You want to know why I've been moving my projects from Adobe CF to
Railo, Adam? It's quite simple, really. Railo is a better product for
me. I've not had a very good experience with Adobe as a cfml developer
and I've had a much better experience with Railo as a cfml developer.
Yes, even with a
What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the root of all
this was that Adobe is being abusive to the OSS engines. Highlighting the
competitive advantages that Adobe feels they have over Railo or OpenBD, or
the negative impact they feel it those engines have on the Adobe or CF
You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source
cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe.
And I quote from Adam: The open CF side of the community couldn't
be more abusive
towards Adobe. It's laughable to think that the community holding the OS
vendors accountable would
The only abuse I've seen from
Adobehttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=For%20all%20intensive%20purposeswas
abuse of the English language.
/me runs
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the
I agree with you, who really cares what Adobe say about Railo or vice versa,
as you say this is normal competitive practice and any company need to prove
their product is the best and normal practice is to say our product does
this, theirs doesn't, so no-one is doing anything wrong there.
The
You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source
cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe.
And I quote from Adam: The open CF side of the community couldn't
be more abusive
towards Adobe. It's laughable to think that the community holding the OS
vendors accountable
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Adrocknaphobia
adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote:
So, 3 years later, our community for all intensive purposes seems to
be shrinking (we have more CF jobs than developers).
But didn't you hold up the Evans Data Corp analysis, as recently as
CFUnited 2010, to show
Thank you, Dave, I missed that bit. When I read Adam's post he wasn't
directly quoting another post so I had not connected his statement to
that of Russ'
Personally, I don't think that anyone has been terribly mean to anyone
else by historic tech debate standards. I did challenge Adam on his
Judah,
I'm not complaining, I'm stating the facts. I've been a CF developer since I
was 18. I married a CF developer and the best man at my wedding is a CF
developer. My intentions aren't to make Adobe rich, they are to ensure that
the thousands of people who built their career on CFML can
Sorry Medic, my brain says intents while my fingers type intensive. Spell
check fails me.
-Adam
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Medic hofme...@gmail.com wrote:
The only abuse I've seen from
Adobe
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=For%20all%20intensive%20purposes
was
abuse
Judah,
You can complain all you want about a small faction trying to recklessly
tear down the
community but that's bullshit.
All I did was explain what's at risk for CFML developers. You didn't argue
any of what I said other than to cal it bullshit. I'd say that's fairly
abusive.
-Adam
On
Finally my trolling pays off! Yes!
It's all in good fun Adrock.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.comwrote:
Sorry Medic, my brain says intents while my fingers type intensive. Spell
check fails me.
-Adam
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Medic
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote:
You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source
cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe.
Actually, Judah, I don't have it backwards. You do. That's why I'm pointing
this out and asking if
yes which got twisted into adobe being abusive and Russ having a dig at
Adobe's attitude to the community which I immediately pointed out to Adam
is not what it said. The comments about Adobe being abusive to the community
came from others replies.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Brian Kotek
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote:
You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source
cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe.
Actually, Judah, I don't have
Sean,
I'm confused about whether you disagree with what I've said, or are just
trying to redirect the conversation away from my question.
You openly admit that as Chief Technical Officer of Railo you are not paid.
So what's gone wrong? Surely you should be able to turn 2,500 - 3,000
downloads a
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Adrocknaphobia
adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote:
Judah,
You can complain all you want about a small faction trying to recklessly
tear down the
community but that's bullshit.
All I did was explain what's at risk for CFML developers. You didn't argue
any of
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Adrocknaphobia
adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote:
If you think we are in a better place, then please ignore me. Just please
don't get bent out of shape when Adobe recognizes Railo/OpenBD as a
direct competitor. I think Judah provided a perfect example of why
I do not monitor the OpenBD lists, so perhaps there is
something going on there that I am unaware of.
Judah,
I've been a subscriber to the Open BlueDragon list on Google groups since it
started. I do not recall any anyone being abusive or very hostile to Adobe on
it at any time. Mind you I'm
On 1/31/2011 3:05 PM, denstar wrote:
Yeah, but I worded it more to sound statistical-ish. Either way...
you worded it to make it sound better and that actually doesn't make it any
more
factual.
My overall point was that surely there's *some* non-zero number of
people trying/using
I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever.
--- Ben
-Original Message-
From: Judah McAuley [mailto:ju...@wiredotter.com]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:58 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon
I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever.
I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all
the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads?
This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in
the same category.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Adrocknaphobia
adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm confused about whether you disagree with what I've said, or are just
trying to redirect the conversation away from my question.
I was asking for confirmation / clarification on your position. I'll
try to be
, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever.
I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the
why isn't CF/CFB free threads
Wait, is CF dying?
andy
-Original Message-
From: Ben Forta [mailto:b...@forta.com]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:15 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory.
Oh well, I guess I'll
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever.
I'm sorry, Ben
throwing sticks.
Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/
-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2011 11:54 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
If you think we
On 01/31/2011 06:27 PM, Charlie Griefer wrote:
Rather than ignore it... is it worth trying to steer in a more
productive direction? Can it be a productive discussion?
Agreed. Maybe we could address the other barriers to adoption that exist
now besides cost?
-Jordan
...@commadelimited.comwrote:
Wait, is CF dying?
andy
-Original Message-
From: Ben Forta [mailto:b...@forta.com]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:15 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory.
Oh
]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:28 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Rather than ignore it... is it worth trying to steer in a more productive
direction? Can it be a productive discussion?
I've gone on record before as saying I don't think
Wow, Adobe is getting all bent out of shape because people are realising
that Railo updates their engine more frequently. And can be rest assured
that they aren't waiting for 2-3 years before a problem is fixed. Seems like
Adobe should be looking into what's wrong in their own backyard before
When conversations denigrate to emotional rants and accusations and
unsubstantiated sweeping generalizations, that's when I back away.
You're no fun any more.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small
Hi Adam!
I dream reality. We all do. Our perception of it is as powerful as
whatever it, in fact, is. :)
I proclaim CFML is worth sharing!.
What you see as fragmentation, I see as coalescentation.
What you see as an attempt to tear down, I see as an attempt to build up.
We'll have to put
]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2011 1:48 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I wonder what kind of regression testing Railo does before releasing an
update? That's not intended as a dig, but there are differences between
expectations for open
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Dave Watts wrote:
...
Now, I don't really have a dog in this fight - while I'm an Adobe
partner, and resell Adobe products, I simply haven't seen any impact
on that business from the open-source engines. But I haven't seen
anything I'd qualify as abuse coming
, January 31, 2011 9:28 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Rather than ignore it... is it worth trying to steer in a more productive
direction? Can it be a productive discussion?
I've gone on record before as saying I don't think the existence
Why do you think it's absurd to think that open source engines will
bring more people?
Because it doesn't seem to have done so, so far. Because the niche in
which CF is popular doesn't seem to care that much about open source
or free. Because there are plenty of other open source engines in
First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on cf-community.
There is a whole 'nother portion that I, like Charlie, think should be
discussed technically (or constructively). I applaud the folks
doing so.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Paul Hastings wrote:
On 1/31/2011 3:05
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote:
I wonder what kind of regression testing Railo does before releasing
an update? That's not intended as a dig, but there are differences
between expectations for open-source software and commercial software,
between large
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Dave Watts wrote:
Why do you think it's absurd to think that open source engines will
bring more people?
Because it doesn't seem to have done so, so far. Because the niche in
which CF is popular doesn't seem to care that much about open source
or free.
On 2/1/2011 12:46 PM, denstar wrote:
First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on cf-community.
then move it there.
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
No competitors plans are going to seem friendly towards each other, however
there is no reason to go out of your way to be nasty and vindictive to
anyone that uses or supports the competitors products and attack them at
every opportunity, which is all some people seem to be interested in doing.
Russ, people who are nasty and vindictive to anyone that uses or supports
the competitors products and attack them at every opportunity is really
strong language. If you're referring to anyone on the pro-Adobe side of
the argument, who are they? If you don't want to name names, some links to
list
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Dave Watts wrote:
I look at is as more of a break dancing crew scenario: We battle each
other to push ourselves, so that we can go out there and form like
Voltron when battling the other crews (PHP, .NET, etc.).
It doesn't need to be contentious. Friendly
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Paul Hastings wrote:
On 1/29/2011 1:26 PM, denstar wrote:
Not /exactly/ infinitesimal, but it ain't no flood of newbs, neither.
that sample size is more or less useless to base the rest of your arguments
on.
It was based on a percent. So I guess the
On 1/31/2011 11:02 AM, denstar wrote:
It was based on a percent. So I guess the real number would be 170
out of a 1000. I think. 17%? I suck at math.
you said 17 out of 100 people who replied to that survey. that's a useless
sample size.
Still relatively useless, I reckon. It's all
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:02 PM, denstar valliants...@gmail.com wrote:
adobe, like any product producer, has to maintain it's base customers.
railo's
not producing much (if any) new cf customers but is instead cannibalizing
the
I guess it's all relative. And maybe that 17% is a lie.
I look at is as more of a break dancing crew scenario: We battle each
other to push ourselves, so that we can go out there and form like
Voltron when battling the other crews (PHP, .NET, etc.).
It doesn't need to be contentious. Friendly competition is where it's at, yo.
This is not how
On 1/29/2011 1:26 PM, denstar wrote:
Not /exactly/ infinitesimal, but it ain't no flood of newbs, neither.
that sample size is more or less useless to base the rest of your arguments on.
I don't know how much that has to do with the entrance of the open
source engines as viable
That information is still very limited and ambiguous though Brian. Adobe are
only going to be aware of direct customers migrating to OSS or those who
announce it on twitter or forums, they wont be aware of customers using
shared hosting who don't own a cf license and are not in contact with adobe
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Brian Kotek wrote:
The reality is that Railo and Open BlueDragon are not growing the market for
CFML. No one is *switching to* CFML from PHP, .NET, Ruby, or Java because of
the OSS engines. To the extent that this might happen, it is an
infinitesimally small
The reality is that Railo and Open BlueDragon are not growing the market for
CFML. No one is *switching to* CFML from PHP, .NET, Ruby, or Java because of
the OSS engines. To the extent that this might happen, it is an
infinitesimally small number of projects. If any of the OSS engines have
data
Donna,
I just wanted to follow up on my request to visit with your team. It sounds
like you would provide an excellent perspective to ColdFusion upper
management on how we need to evolve the business to meet modern government
needs. Please let me know if we can schedule something for February.
Well I think perspective makes a difference. Hopefully you can understand
that I'm exposed to much more of the community than those on this list might
be - especially the anti-Adobe sentiment. 3 years ago when I blogged about
OpenBD, I was right to be skeptic given the history of New Atlanta.
I made no jab about Adobe's opinion on the open source community, I suggest
you re-read my post and you will see that in fact I only mentioned Adobe
Attitude as one of the reasons people have told me they did not stick with
CF. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the open source community.
I
you're my boy blue! you know always have my support!
Sent from my iPhone... Don't hate.
On Jan 21, 2011, at 4:57 AM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote:
Well I think perspective makes a difference. Hopefully you can understand
that I'm exposed to much more of the community than
Isn't that supposed to be little boy blue?
-Original Message-
From: Tony Weeg [mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 8:53 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
you're my boy blue! you know always have my support
I'm going to be stepping back from this discussion. I believe my statement
stands as it is. The last thing I will say is that you're wrong about the FOSS
alternatives as direct competitors. AS I mentioned in my original posting I
recently worked on 3 separate sites that started off using open
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
you're my boy blue! you know always have my support!
Sent from my iPhone... Don't hate.
On Jan 21, 2011, at 4:57 AM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com
wrote:
Well I think perspective makes a difference
:53 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
you're my boy blue! you know always have my support!
Sent from my iPhone... Don't hate.
On Jan 21, 2011, at 4:57 AM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com
wrote
The last thing I will say is that you're wrong about the FOSS alternatives as
direct competitors.
AS I mentioned in my original posting I recently worked on 3 separate sites
that started off
using open source alternatives as the CFML engine. In each case after a year
the owners
wanted
SO... All of this is interesting conversation, but the initial question
was is there any more information on this new conference?
I've been trying to find a list of the 2011 conferences so I can plan to
attend one. I have to schedule my vacation so I can attend my first
conference.
The only
CF.Objective() in Minneapolis is going to happen May 12-14
http://www.cfobjective.com/
Wil Genovese
One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:34 AM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT) wrote:
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 9:34 AM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)
sd1...@att.com wrote:
The only conference I saw any detail on was cfopen in Texas and I didn't
find out about that until too late.
Since it hasn't happened yet, how is it too late?
Does anyone have a list of the CF Conferences
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 9:34 AM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)
sd1...@att.com wrote:
The only conference I saw any detail on was cfopen in Texas and I
didn't
find out about that until too late.
Since it hasn't happened yet
haha
cf_thugs what what
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Tony Weeg tonyw...@gmail.com wrote:
you're my boy blue! you know always have my support!
Sent from my iPhone... Don't hate.
On Jan 21, 2011, at 4:57 AM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com
wrote:
Well I think perspective
Donna,
Oh, it's not so awkward for us at Adobe. As I mentioned before, we've seen
increased adoption for ColdFusion in the public sector. Of course, I have a
bit of a different perspective since I talk to so many different agencies
and departments as part of my job.
What agency do you work for?
I know this has been said before as we have had previous discussions with
Adobe and have suggested this and they agreed it was a good idea and I know
some others have done the same. And I understand this is even being trialled
in Australia with some products (not CF).
SPLA type licensing like
Russ,
You're preaching to the choir... well except for that last part which is
ridiculous. The open CF side of the community couldn't be more abusive
towards Adobe. It's laughable to think that the community holding the OS
vendors accountable would make someone leave CF.
-Adam
--
Sent from my
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Adrocknaphobia
adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote:
Russ,
You're preaching to the choir... well except for that last part which is
ridiculous. The open CF side of the community couldn't be more abusive
towards Adobe. It's laughable to think that the community
developers because of what engine they use. MADNESS
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com]
Sent: 20 January 2011 21:35
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Russ,
You're preaching to the choir
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com]
Sent: 20 January 2011 21:35
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Russ,
You're preaching to the choir... well except for that last part which
PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Who has been abusive toward Adobe? I've seen some people question
their commitment to the product because of a perceived lack of
marketing muscle. And there was a big discussion about pricing on
CFBuilder. Most
I've seen plenty of anti-commercial software vitriol out there in OSS
communities but I haven't seen it in the open cfml community. I would
say that many (probably most?) people who are participating in open
source side of CF (Railo, CFEclipse, OpenBD, projects on RIAForge,
etc) have been cfml
...@wiredotter.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:48 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I've seen plenty of anti-commercial software vitriol out there in OSS
communities but I haven't seen it in the open cfml community. I would
say that many (probably most
Excuse me who has been very hostile to the open source community, for instance
your recent comment on CFEclipse is a very good example. Or your comments about
Open BlueDragon when it first started for another.
And you cannot say its a defensive matter on your part. So when you start that
,
Steve
-Original Message-
From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 8:48 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
FWIW. ColdFusion has been growing rapidly in the public sector the past
few
quarters
Yes I attended CFUnited twice and was very disappointed they had to close up
shop. That's why I was asking about for an alternative at the top of the
thread.
I am definitely very interested in what's coming in August. What space should
I watch, as I gather it hasn't been formally announced?
What CF Conference this August?
Donna, did you ever attend CFUnited (the flagship ColdFusion conference
located in the DC area)? You might also be happy to know that there will
likely be a new ColdFusion conference in the DC area this August.
-Adam
Ex-government contractor
Long-time DC metro
I think Adam just leaked a little secret news Hmmm Sounds like some
inside secret plans for a new conference are under way. They would have to be
well underway in order to do it by August.
Wil Genovese
Owner/Sr. Web Application Developer/
Systems Administrator
Trunkful
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Donna Bing bingdo...@ymail.com wrote:
I think you're completely wrong about open source being a small movement in
federal government. In fact, I think that was one of Obama's first executive
actions. Maybe it hasn't taken off yet, but everyone I know in
I think it's the first time this conference has been run. I've signed up.
Just need to make my lodging and plane reservations.
And yeah, it's for-real -- the organizers are well-respected in the
community and are focused on the open-source arena, and that's what this
conference is about.
Hi Donna,
Yeah http://OpenCFSummit.org is the real thing. And yeah that video is pretty
funny.
My boss and I are trying to get her management to ok sending our whole team,
because there's pressure from other programming departments to move to Drupal
and PHP, but we're keen to go with the
you can hear about it on cfHour
http://cfhour.com/post.cfm/show-83-opencf-summit-interview
http://cfhour.com/post.cfm/show-83-opencf-summit-interview
On 18 January 2011 20:36, Donna Bing bingdo...@ymail.com wrote:
Ever since CFUnited closed up shop, I've been looking around for an
Donna Bing bingdo...@ymail.com wrote:
Ever since CFUnited closed up shop, I've been looking around for an
affordable
substitute. I'm local in the Northern Virginia area, so I saved on lodging
and
travel.
That conference looks like it would be fun, but I have limited funds for
, 2011 8:38:17 AM
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Donna Bing bingdo...@ymail.com wrote:
Ever since CFUnited closed up shop, I've been looking around for an
affordable
substitute. I'm local in the Northern Virginia area, so I saved on lodging
From: Roger Austin raust...@nc.rr.com
To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Cc: Donna Bing bingdo...@ymail.com
Sent: Tue, January 18, 2011 8:38:17 AM
Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Donna Bing bingdo...@ymail.com wrote:
Ever since CFUnited
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