Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[William Ferguson]

Peter,

Thank you and Chris for providing the images and the question.  I learned a
lot about highlight reconstruction and color reconstruction just playing
with these two images.

Bill

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Peter Cripps 
wrote:

> Thanks Bill, thats much better than I've been able to achieve with dt. I
> clearly need to spend time learning how to use the highlight reconstruction
> module!
>
> Before posting the inevitable Lightroom comparison, let me say that I
> really don't like using that software. I have a long list of complaints,
> most of which are well addressed by darktable. I've been using darktable on
> my home linux machine for quite some time, and have been pleased with the
> results.
>
> Then along came the windows version of dt. Great, I thought, I can now use
> the same image processing software on my windows laptop and my linux
> desktop. And so it was. But of course it was now all too easy to compare
> results on my laptop between the two programs. It was then that I started
> to notice that Lightroom does do a better job of highlight recovery than
> darktable.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o1q6xpj6pba2s7/Lightroom_final.jpg?dl=0
>
> As I've mentioned before, I'm very conscious of the fact that dt is a gift
> from the developers, who obviously take a lot of pride in their work. So
> this should not be taken as a 'complaint', more a suggestion for
> improvements.
>
> Hope  this isn't all TLDR!
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> On 04/10/2018 07:24 PM, William Ferguson wrote:
>
> I took another shot at the image with better results this time
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fihvmxi0ct9jt6/orf.jpg?dl=0
>
> Sidecar is attached.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Peter Cripps]

Thanks Bill, thats much better than I've been able to achieve with dt. I 
clearly need to spend time learning how to use the highlight 
reconstruction module!


Before posting the inevitable Lightroom comparison, let me say that I 
really don't like using that software. I have a long list of complaints, 
most of which are well addressed by darktable. I've been using darktable 
on my home linux machine for quite some time, and have been pleased with 
the results.


Then along came the windows version of dt. Great, I thought, I can now 
use the same image processing software on my windows laptop and my linux 
desktop. And so it was. But of course it was now all too easy to compare 
results on my laptop between the two programs. It was then that I 
started to notice that Lightroom does do a better job of highlight 
recovery than darktable.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o1q6xpj6pba2s7/Lightroom_final.jpg?dl=0

As I've mentioned before, I'm very conscious of the fact that dt is a 
gift from the developers, who obviously take a lot of pride in their 
work. So this should not be taken as a 'complaint', more a suggestion 
for improvements.


Hope  this isn't all TLDR!

Peter



On 04/10/2018 07:24 PM, William Ferguson wrote:

I took another shot at the image with better results this time

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fihvmxi0ct9jt6/orf.jpg?dl=0

Sidecar is attached.

Bill





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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[William Ferguson]

I took another shot at the image with better results this time

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fihvmxi0ct9jt6/orf.jpg?dl=0

Sidecar is attached.

Bill

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Peter Cripps  wrote:

>
>
> On 04/09/2018 10:28 AM, Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, did they look the same before reducing exposure? I wonder if
>> basecurve is the same in both cases (two options are available in DT).
>> Looks like LR does some sort of highlight reconstruction by default, if
>> you enable LCh reconstruction in DT you will get same amount of details
>> but different color cast...
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
> Here's what they looked like before the exposure corrections:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dj5u2bw2l59z5rs/darktable_before.jpg?dl=0
> (darktable no exposure adjustment)
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9bcewm1lw2poxj/Lightroom_before.jpg?dl=0
> (Lightroom no exposure adjustment)
>
> Again, dt seems to be missing content at the high intensity end of the
> histogram.
>
> Regarding base curves, etc., here's what dt looks like before all the
> default processes are applied:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cuznj09n9f1li8y/darktable_start.jpg?dl=0
> (darktable no baseline)
>
>
>
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@lis
> ts.darktable.org
>
>


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Y5050211.ORF.xmp
Description: Binary data

Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 9 avril 2018 22:26:01 CEST Peter Cripps wrote:
> On 04/09/2018 10:28 AM, Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
> > Well, did they look the same before reducing exposure? I wonder if
> > basecurve is the same in both cases (two options are available in DT).
> > Looks like LR does some sort of highlight reconstruction by default, if
> > you enable LCh reconstruction in DT you will get same amount of details
> > but different color cast...
> > __
> > __
> Here's what they looked like before the exposure corrections:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dj5u2bw2l59z5rs/darktable_before.jpg?dl=0
> (darktable no exposure adjustment)
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9bcewm1lw2poxj/Lightroom_before.jpg?dl=0
> (Lightroom no exposure adjustment)

But even in that case, there's already a lot of processing done:
- raw black and white points are set
- white balance has been set
- demosaicing has been applied.
- input and output colour profiles have been applied.

All of these can be different between DT and LR.

> Again, dt seems to be missing content at the high intensity end of the
> histogram. (...)

Be careful comparing the histograms: in DT your histogram is in log mode, the 
LR histogram seems to be in linear mode. If you want the DT histogram also in 
linear mode, hover over the histogram and click the leftmost of the appearing 
buttons until it shows a straight line.

Remco

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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Peter Cripps]

On 04/09/2018 10:28 AM, Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:


Well, did they look the same before reducing exposure? I wonder if
basecurve is the same in both cases (two options are available in DT).
Looks like LR does some sort of highlight reconstruction by default, if
you enable LCh reconstruction in DT you will get same amount of details
but different color cast...




Here's what they looked like before the exposure corrections:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dj5u2bw2l59z5rs/darktable_before.jpg?dl=0 
(darktable no exposure adjustment)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9bcewm1lw2poxj/Lightroom_before.jpg?dl=0 
(Lightroom no exposure adjustment)


Again, dt seems to be missing content at the high intensity end of the 
histogram.


Regarding base curves, etc., here's what dt looks like before all the 
default processes are applied:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/cuznj09n9f1li8y/darktable_start.jpg?dl=0 
(darktable no baseline)




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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Romano Giannetti]

On 09/04/18 20:35, Remco Viëtor wrote:

If it were that simple, we wouldn't have the discussions about importing
editing instructions between programs. But in practice, each program has its
own tweaks, and its way of doing things. From what I see here, LR does a few
things automatically that need to be done "by hand" in DT. And that kind of
thing is nice when you start, but tends to limit what advanced users can do.


Yes, true.
The new Rawtherapee, for example, has a new thing that let you 
automatically match the basecurve of a raw with the embedded jpeg. It's 
quite nice and useful (it has the effect of "start from the jpg", 
although not 100%), but if you need to do heavy adjustments normally you 
have to back it off.


Romano


--
Romano Giannetti
http://www.rgtti.com/

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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 9 avril 2018 19:28:15 CEST Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-04-09 at 10:06 -0700, Peter Cripps wrote:
> > At risk of complicating this discussion, I processed an over-exposed
> > RAW 
> > file in darktable and Lightroom. In both cases, I pulled the
> > exposure 
> > back by 2ev. No other tweaks. The results are quite different, and
> > seem 
> > to show that dt is losing some of the high intensity pixels.
> > 
> > (I said 'seem to'. Please don't pile into me!)
> > 
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/se9yawlsbl7zpff/darktable.jpg?dl=0
> > (darktable)
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cepsk7i54v4x72/Lightroom.jpg?dl=0
> > (Lightroom)
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrg997wamwg6yj6/Y5050211.ORF?dl=0 (.orf)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _
> > ___
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@lists.darkta
> > ble.org
> 
> Well, did they look the same before reducing exposure? I wonder if
> basecurve is the same in both cases (two options are available in DT).
> Looks like LR does some sort of highlight reconstruction by default, if
> you enable LCh reconstruction in DT you will get same amount of details
> but different color cast...

The more I see such comparisons of two programs, the more I doubt their value, 
when claims are that the same (limited) tools are used. Here we see it 
already, in that DT has 2 'olympus' baseline curves (and 10-20 predefined 
ones). It's clear that LR does apply a similar tone curve, but it's not stated 
explicitly...

So just in this simple example we have two points of discussion: basecurve and 
highlight reconstruction...

If it were that simple, we wouldn't have the discussions about importing 
editing instructions between programs. But in practice, each program has its 
own tweaks, and its way of doing things. From what I see here, LR does a few 
things automatically that need to be done "by hand" in DT. And that kind of 
thing is nice when you start, but tends to limit what advanced users can do.

Remco

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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Romano Giannetti]

On 09/04/18 19:28, Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:

On Mon, 2018-04-09 at 10:06 -0700, Peter Cripps wrote:

At risk of complicating this discussion, I processed an over-exposed
RAW
file in darktable and Lightroom. In both cases, I pulled the
exposure
back by 2ev. No other tweaks. The results are quite different, and
seem
to show that dt is losing some of the high intensity pixels.

(I said 'seem to'. Please don't pile into me!)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/se9yawlsbl7zpff/darktable.jpg?dl=0
(darktable)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cepsk7i54v4x72/Lightroom.jpg?dl=0
(Lightroom)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrg997wamwg6yj6/Y5050211.ORF?dl=0 (.orf)


Well, did they look the same before reducing exposure? I wonder if
basecurve is the same in both cases (two options are available in DT).
Looks like LR does some sort of highlight reconstruction by default, if
you enable LCh reconstruction in DT you will get same amount of details
but different color cast.


That "Tone: auto" is quite suspect in LR; if you reduce 2EV the 
exposure, unless you have a *lot* of DR headspace in the highlight, it 
seems strange that the photo still have pure white --- DT feels more 
"physical" in that shot.


If you enable fusion in the base  curve, and shadow-highlights, and so 
on, you have similar things --- mind you, HL are blown, so it's 
impossible to fully recover them...


https://imgur.com/dtCJReE

Romano

--
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http://www.rgtti.com/


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Mon, 2018-04-09 at 10:06 -0700, Peter Cripps wrote:
> At risk of complicating this discussion, I processed an over-exposed
> RAW 
> file in darktable and Lightroom. In both cases, I pulled the
> exposure 
> back by 2ev. No other tweaks. The results are quite different, and
> seem 
> to show that dt is losing some of the high intensity pixels.
> 
> (I said 'seem to'. Please don't pile into me!)
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/se9yawlsbl7zpff/darktable.jpg?dl=0
> (darktable)
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cepsk7i54v4x72/Lightroom.jpg?dl=0
> (Lightroom)
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrg997wamwg6yj6/Y5050211.ORF?dl=0 (.orf)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> ___
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@lists.darkta
> ble.org
> 

Well, did they look the same before reducing exposure? I wonder if
basecurve is the same in both cases (two options are available in DT).
Looks like LR does some sort of highlight reconstruction by default, if
you enable LCh reconstruction in DT you will get same amount of details
but different color cast...

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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Peter Cripps]

At risk of complicating this discussion, I processed an over-exposed RAW 
file in darktable and Lightroom. In both cases, I pulled the exposure 
back by 2ev. No other tweaks. The results are quite different, and seem 
to show that dt is losing some of the high intensity pixels.


(I said 'seem to'. Please don't pile into me!)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/se9yawlsbl7zpff/darktable.jpg?dl=0 (darktable)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cepsk7i54v4x72/Lightroom.jpg?dl=0 (Lightroom)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrg997wamwg6yj6/Y5050211.ORF?dl=0 (.orf)






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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[William Ferguson]

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Matthieu Moy  wrote:

> - Original Message -
> > From: "Chris" 
>
> > Seems as though the pink colours appear in my image when I disable
> 'highlight
> > reconstruction'.
>
> Yes, this is expected. The module is precisely here to remove this pink
> color.
>
> > With this disabled the Green & Blue channels have a lot less
> > data in the highlights than the red. Enable highlight recon, and it
> seems to
> > scale all the RGB to a simple range.
>
> The problem is the following:
>
> * All channels (R, G, B) are initially coded on a range, say [0, 2^14-1]
> for a 14-bits sensor RAW image. Channels that clip have the value 2^14-1
> (well, I'm slightly oversimplifying because saturation of the DAC comes a
> bit before this value, but ...).
>
> * The white balance module scales each channels, and usually scales the
> green channel less than the other. So the clipped pixels won't have the
> same values on R, G and B anymore after white balance. So, blown out areas
> are not white/grey anymore, they have color.
>
> The "highlight reconstruction" module does two things after that:
>
> * Desaturate the blown-out areas (done for all modes of the module)
>
> * Optionally, try to recover details. The default mode does not try that,
> it just clips highlights and turn them into plain white (which may become
> grey if you apply a negative exposure compensation). The "Reconstruct in
> LCh" is quite good to recover details when at least one channel is not
> clipped (e.g R and B are clipped, you can't expect much on colors, but the
> G channels can be used to recover an L channel). "Reconstruct color" does
> more or less the same, but works well on different images.
>
> In any case, setting the "clipping threshold" to 2.0 means the module will
> only work on pixels that have an L value 2 times greater than the clipping
> threshold. Which in practice means that the module will have no effect. The
> manual says "The default is usually satisfactory without any need for
> additional adjustments", which in dt is usually to be read as "There's no
> reason for you to change this value, but it's a parameter that appears in
> the internal algorithms so we've exposed it to the user just in case".
>

My experience with clipping threshold was different, at least on this dng.
Setting it to 2.0 allowed me to recover the cloud data and come up with a
pretty close match to what Chris achieved using LR.  Result is here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lrg8wix996e6k2f/_MG_1496.jpg?dl=0

>
> > Odd, because I do not get this pink appear when I reduce the highlights
> in
> > Lightroom... and I am still using this same .dng file.
>
> I never used Lightroom, but from what I've read, LR's philosophy is to do
> a bit of processing automatically (or "behind your back", depending on the
> point of view). OTOH, dt makes almost everything explicit, and gives you
> control on everything, including settings that are not really meant to be
> changed. You may or may not like it, but it's unlikely to change ;-).
>
> The pink was there in the RAW (after white balance), LR just removed it
> for you.
>
> --
> Matthieu Moy
> https://matthieu-moy.fr/
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
> lists.darktable.org
>
> Bill


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Emanuele Olivetti]

Chris,

a number of people spent their own time to help you understand the details
of your problem. I see a lot of high-quality information in this thread,
conveyed in a pretty polite way - definitely not "getting attacked by
random people", as you state it. You just need to share your RAW file and
not the Lightroom-modified DNG file. It's pretty simple.

Personally, I have understood a number of useful things about the DNG
format. Thanks to everyone for the insightful thread.

Best,

Emanuele

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Chris Cunnington 
wrote:

> So glad I asked my question on this mailing list... love getting attacked
> by random people who never take a minute to try understand the other
> persons perspective.
>
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 06:41 Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>
>> * Chris Cunnington  [01-01-70 12:34]:
>> > As have been a lot of my replies today... I do not do things blindly, I
>> > work with lossy on purpose and have my reasons which have worked well
>> for
>> > me for over 5 years now.
>> >
>> > but whilst everyone has now decided to point blame at the dng format I
>> > think we can stop this thread. As I hoped to learn more about DT, not
>> dng.
>> >
>> > DT, clearly needs to find simpler solutions to its not so
>> simple/effecient
>> > highlight recovery/reconstruction workflow. Most of my searching lead to
>> > blogs with this being the biggest complaint.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 23:12 Michael Rasmussen  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Two important things concerning the DNG*) format:
>> > > 1) Lossless is an option
>> > > 2) The DNG format also specifies a non-raw format called Linear DNG.
>> > > See http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm
>> > >
>> > > If any of the above is in actual play then your results are to be
>> > > expected.
>> > >
>> > > *) https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Hilsen/Regards
>> > > Michael Rasmussen
>> > >
>> > > Get my public GnuPG keys:
>> > > michael  rasmussen  cc
>> > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xD3C9A00E
>> > > mir  datanom  net
>> > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE501F51C
>> > > mir  miras  org
>> > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE3E80917
>> > > --
>> > > /usr/games/fortune -es says:
>> > > Yow!  Now I get to think about all the BAD THINGS I did to a BOWLING
>> > > BALL when I was in JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL!
>> > >
>> >
>> > 
>> 
>> > darktable user mailing list
>> > to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
>> lists.darktable.org
>>
>> you put dt in an untenable situation, then blame it for your failings to
>> achieve what you say is possible with lr, but use a tool specifically
>> built for lr to convert images to a secondary format, altering and/or
>> destroying information from the original raw format that dt would use.
>> then claim your previous work path has worked adequately for you for over
>> 5 years, that the dng format is not the point of your discussion.
>>
>> your previous work path does not fit your present work path, using dt.  so
>> use the original raw image with dt, revert to your previous work path
>> using lr and dng, or continue to complain that you cannot make apples
>> resemble oranges.
>>
>>
>> --
>> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
>> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Member
>> facebook/ptilopteri
>> Registered Linux User #207535@
>> http://linuxcounter.net
>> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet
>> freenode
>> 
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list
>> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
>> lists.darktable.org
>>
>>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris Cunnington]

So glad I asked my question on this mailing list... love getting attacked
by random people who never take a minute to try understand the other
persons perspective.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 06:41 Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

> * Chris Cunnington  [01-01-70 12:34]:
> > As have been a lot of my replies today... I do not do things blindly, I
> > work with lossy on purpose and have my reasons which have worked well for
> > me for over 5 years now.
> >
> > but whilst everyone has now decided to point blame at the dng format I
> > think we can stop this thread. As I hoped to learn more about DT, not
> dng.
> >
> > DT, clearly needs to find simpler solutions to its not so
> simple/effecient
> > highlight recovery/reconstruction workflow. Most of my searching lead to
> > blogs with this being the biggest complaint.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 23:12 Michael Rasmussen  wrote:
> >
> > > Two important things concerning the DNG*) format:
> > > 1) Lossless is an option
> > > 2) The DNG format also specifies a non-raw format called Linear DNG.
> > > See http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm
> > >
> > > If any of the above is in actual play then your results are to be
> > > expected.
> > >
> > > *) https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hilsen/Regards
> > > Michael Rasmussen
> > >
> > > Get my public GnuPG keys:
> > > michael  rasmussen  cc
> > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xD3C9A00E
> > > mir  datanom  net
> > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE501F51C
> > > mir  miras  org
> > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE3E80917
> > > --
> > > /usr/games/fortune -es says:
> > > Yow!  Now I get to think about all the BAD THINGS I did to a BOWLING
> > > BALL when I was in JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL!
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
> you put dt in an untenable situation, then blame it for your failings to
> achieve what you say is possible with lr, but use a tool specifically
> built for lr to convert images to a secondary format, altering and/or
> destroying information from the original raw format that dt would use.
> then claim your previous work path has worked adequately for you for over
> 5 years, that the dng format is not the point of your discussion.
>
> your previous work path does not fit your present work path, using dt.  so
> use the original raw image with dt, revert to your previous work path
> using lr and dng, or continue to complain that you cannot make apples
> resemble oranges.
>
>
> --
> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Chris Cunnington  [01-01-70 12:34]:
> As have been a lot of my replies today... I do not do things blindly, I
> work with lossy on purpose and have my reasons which have worked well for
> me for over 5 years now.
> 
> but whilst everyone has now decided to point blame at the dng format I
> think we can stop this thread. As I hoped to learn more about DT, not dng.
> 
> DT, clearly needs to find simpler solutions to its not so simple/effecient
> highlight recovery/reconstruction workflow. Most of my searching lead to
> blogs with this being the biggest complaint.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 23:12 Michael Rasmussen  wrote:
> 
> > Two important things concerning the DNG*) format:
> > 1) Lossless is an option
> > 2) The DNG format also specifies a non-raw format called Linear DNG.
> > See http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm
> >
> > If any of the above is in actual play then your results are to be
> > expected.
> >
> > *) https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html
> >
> > --
> > Hilsen/Regards
> > Michael Rasmussen
> >
> > Get my public GnuPG keys:
> > michael  rasmussen  cc
> > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xD3C9A00E
> > mir  datanom  net
> > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE501F51C
> > mir  miras  org
> > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE3E80917
> > --
> > /usr/games/fortune -es says:
> > Yow!  Now I get to think about all the BAD THINGS I did to a BOWLING
> > BALL when I was in JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL!
> >
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

you put dt in an untenable situation, then blame it for your failings to
achieve what you say is possible with lr, but use a tool specifically
built for lr to convert images to a secondary format, altering and/or
destroying information from the original raw format that dt would use. 
then claim your previous work path has worked adequately for you for over
5 years, that the dng format is not the point of your discussion.

your previous work path does not fit your present work path, using dt.  so
use the original raw image with dt, revert to your previous work path
using lr and dng, or continue to complain that you cannot make apples
resemble oranges.


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Matthieu Moy]

- Original Message -
> From: "Chris" 

> Seems as though the pink colours appear in my image when I disable 'highlight
> reconstruction'.

Yes, this is expected. The module is precisely here to remove this pink color.

> With this disabled the Green & Blue channels have a lot less
> data in the highlights than the red. Enable highlight recon, and it seems to
> scale all the RGB to a simple range.

The problem is the following:

* All channels (R, G, B) are initially coded on a range, say [0, 2^14-1] for a 
14-bits sensor RAW image. Channels that clip have the value 2^14-1 (well, I'm 
slightly oversimplifying because saturation of the DAC comes a bit before this 
value, but ...).

* The white balance module scales each channels, and usually scales the green 
channel less than the other. So the clipped pixels won't have the same values 
on R, G and B anymore after white balance. So, blown out areas are not 
white/grey anymore, they have color.

The "highlight reconstruction" module does two things after that:

* Desaturate the blown-out areas (done for all modes of the module)

* Optionally, try to recover details. The default mode does not try that, it 
just clips highlights and turn them into plain white (which may become grey if 
you apply a negative exposure compensation). The "Reconstruct in LCh" is quite 
good to recover details when at least one channel is not clipped (e.g R and B 
are clipped, you can't expect much on colors, but the G channels can be used to 
recover an L channel). "Reconstruct color" does more or less the same, but 
works well on different images.

In any case, setting the "clipping threshold" to 2.0 means the module will only 
work on pixels that have an L value 2 times greater than the clipping 
threshold. Which in practice means that the module will have no effect. The 
manual says "The default is usually satisfactory without any need for 
additional adjustments", which in dt is usually to be read as "There's no 
reason for you to change this value, but it's a parameter that appears in the 
internal algorithms so we've exposed it to the user just in case".

> Odd, because I do not get this pink appear when I reduce the highlights in
> Lightroom... and I am still using this same .dng file.

I never used Lightroom, but from what I've read, LR's philosophy is to do a bit 
of processing automatically (or "behind your back", depending on the point of 
view). OTOH, dt makes almost everything explicit, and gives you control on 
everything, including settings that are not really meant to be changed. You may 
or may not like it, but it's unlikely to change ;-).

The pink was there in the RAW (after white balance), LR just removed it for you.

-- 
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https://matthieu-moy.fr/

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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Anders Lund]

Hi Chris,

I post a screenshot of a similar problem, showing how I used the color 
reconstruction module. The screenshot contains a snapshot, so that half the 
image is the darktable default, including the basecurve.

I drag the sliders until I get the best result.

Prior to color reconstruction, I lowered the exposure using the exposure 
module.

See the screen here: https://nc.alweb.dk/index.php/s/ndbtqwwvWCbvu2Z

Kindly,
Anders

søndag den 8. april 2018 22.10.42 CEST skrev Chris:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am a recent convert to Darktable, and seem to be battling to find a
> good way to recover detail in highlights. Lightroom does such a good job
> of it with a single slider.
> 
> I found this video: https://hooktube.com/watch?v=JF5CFQPgidk but he
> doesn't recover any detail, simply push colour into area's that are
> washed out... which is not what I am attempting to achieve. I would like
> to see the details in blown out cloudy skies recovered. Since I have
> literally seen this possible in lightroom, I am surprise I cannot
> recover the detail on the same raw file within darktable.
> 
> Maybe you have all seen this question before, and have some suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Remco Viëtor]

On lundi 9 avril 2018 08:20:05 CEST Chris Cunnington wrote:
> As have been a lot of my replies today... I do not do things blindly, I
> work with lossy on purpose and have my reasons which have worked well for
> me for over 5 years now.
Yes, you will have yuor reasons for a workflow that is valid with *lightroom*

> but whilst everyone has now decided to point blame at the dng format I
> think we can stop this thread. As I hoped to learn more about DT, not dng.

As long as we don't know how you convert your raw files to DNG, and you won't 
provide the "native" raw file, that won't change. 

Having looked at the dng you provided, there is indeed something fishy about 
it: no indication of raw over-exposure, but a very sharp peak in the histogram 
at the far right. 
When I look at my images, if I can't get detail back in the sky, the raw over-
exposure indicator (the little 'bayer' square under the image) gives a nice 
rgb pattern over those areas (indicating *all* channels are blown)

> DT, clearly needs to find simpler solutions to its not so simple/effecient
> highlight recovery/reconstruction workflow. Most of my searching lead to
> blogs with this being the biggest complaint.

There, I beg to differ. DT clearly isn't the easiest program to use, but in 
exchange it gives you a lot of control over what is done. But, mastering a 
complex tool takes time.

What you could try on the image you showed:
- make sure "Highlight reconstruction" is on "Reconstruct in Lch"
- select a different "basecurve" (in this case, I'd go for the "Leica" curve, 
as it's a lot less steep than the canon ones).
- use "exposure correction" with -1 EV and a parametric mask for the L 
channel, where you push the closed triangle from the left all the way to the 
right.
- use "shadows & highlights".

With this, I've managed to get some detail back in skies which were (according 
to DT) completely blown out (raw overexposure indicator showing RGB all over-
exposed...).

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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris Cunnington]

As have been a lot of my replies today... I do not do things blindly, I
work with lossy on purpose and have my reasons which have worked well for
me for over 5 years now.

but whilst everyone has now decided to point blame at the dng format I
think we can stop this thread. As I hoped to learn more about DT, not dng.

DT, clearly needs to find simpler solutions to its not so simple/effecient
highlight recovery/reconstruction workflow. Most of my searching lead to
blogs with this being the biggest complaint.

Chris


On Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 23:12 Michael Rasmussen  wrote:

> Two important things concerning the DNG*) format:
> 1) Lossless is an option
> 2) The DNG format also specifies a non-raw format called Linear DNG.
> See http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm
>
> If any of the above is in actual play then your results are to be
> expected.
>
> *) https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html
>
> --
> Hilsen/Regards
> Michael Rasmussen
>
> Get my public GnuPG keys:
> michael  rasmussen  cc
> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xD3C9A00E
> mir  datanom  net
> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE501F51C
> mir  miras  org
> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE3E80917
> --
> /usr/games/fortune -es says:
> Yow!  Now I get to think about all the BAD THINGS I did to a BOWLING
> BALL when I was in JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL!
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Michael Rasmussen]

Two important things concerning the DNG*) format:
1) Lossless is an option
2) The DNG format also specifies a non-raw format called Linear DNG.
See http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm

If any of the above is in actual play then your results are to be
expected.

*) https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html

-- 
Hilsen/Regards
Michael Rasmussen

Get my public GnuPG keys:
michael  rasmussen  cc
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--
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BALL when I was in JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL!


pgpYuRRaRtCXH.pgp
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris Cunnington]

Yes, I removed all EXIF data for privacy reasons!

On Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 22:42 S. Witt  wrote:

> Just tried to play with the file. It seems to me that the dng does not
> contain raw data at all. Modifying the demosaicing seems to have no
> effect, in particular when choosing "passthrough". That is not what I
> would expect from real raw data.
> Even exif data seem to be removed.
>
> Am 09.04.2018 um 06:28 schrieb Chris:
> > True... ultimately everyone's help here has been great, definitely
> > getting close to a work around.
> >
> > Speaking of lossy .dng files... what would your suggestions be for an
> > alternative format that maintains a good amount of data without costing
> > to much in filesize?
>
> Some cameras offer options to save raws with lossless compression. I
> would definitely keep the original raw files. If you need to save disk
> space, try to consequently delete images that you are not going to use.
> This will significantly improve the signal to noise ratio on your disk ;)
>
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On 2018/04/08 08:04 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >> * Chris  [04-08-18 22:35]:
> >>> Agreed! The original cr2 would have more data.
> >>>
> >>> The fact remains though that LR is able to do a much better job with
> >>> this compressed DNG than DT can.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2018/04/08 07:21 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>  might be better if you would provide the "original" raw image instead
> of
>  the conversion to dng image.  no conversion contains all the exact
> "original"
>  image data.
> >> and you are using lr's app to convert the original to a file designed to
> >> be as compatible as possible to lr, not dt.  you will achieve better
> >> results in dt using the *original* file format.
> >>
> >> dng is definitely not designed with the intent to be compatible with
> >> anything not sold by adobe.  adobe wants profits, it doesn't intend to
> >> give *anything* away.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[S. Witt]

Just tried to play with the file. It seems to me that the dng does not
contain raw data at all. Modifying the demosaicing seems to have no
effect, in particular when choosing "passthrough". That is not what I
would expect from real raw data.
Even exif data seem to be removed.

Am 09.04.2018 um 06:28 schrieb Chris:
> True... ultimately everyone's help here has been great, definitely
> getting close to a work around.
> 
> Speaking of lossy .dng files... what would your suggestions be for an
> alternative format that maintains a good amount of data without costing
> to much in filesize?

Some cameras offer options to save raws with lossless compression. I
would definitely keep the original raw files. If you need to save disk
space, try to consequently delete images that you are not going to use.
This will significantly improve the signal to noise ratio on your disk ;)

> 
> Chris
> 
> On 2018/04/08 08:04 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>> * Chris  [04-08-18 22:35]:
>>> Agreed! The original cr2 would have more data.
>>>
>>> The fact remains though that LR is able to do a much better job with
>>> this compressed DNG than DT can.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2018/04/08 07:21 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
 might be better if you would provide the "original" raw image instead of
 the conversion to dng image.  no conversion contains all the exact 
 "original"
 image data.
>> and you are using lr's app to convert the original to a file designed to
>> be as compatible as possible to lr, not dt.  you will achieve better
>> results in dt using the *original* file format.
>>
>> dng is definitely not designed with the intent to be compatible with
>> anything not sold by adobe.  adobe wants profits, it doesn't intend to
>> give *anything* away.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

True... ultimately everyone's help here has been great, definitely
getting close to a work around.

Speaking of lossy .dng files... what would your suggestions be for an
alternative format that maintains a good amount of data without costing
to much in filesize?

Chris

On 2018/04/08 08:04 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Chris  [04-08-18 22:35]:
>> Agreed! The original cr2 would have more data.
>>
>> The fact remains though that LR is able to do a much better job with
>> this compressed DNG than DT can.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On 2018/04/08 07:21 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
>>> might be better if you would provide the "original" raw image instead of
>>> the conversion to dng image.  no conversion contains all the exact 
>>> "original"
>>> image data.
> and you are using lr's app to convert the original to a file designed to
> be as compatible as possible to lr, not dt.  you will achieve better
> results in dt using the *original* file format.
>
> dng is definitely not designed with the intent to be compatible with
> anything not sold by adobe.  adobe wants profits, it doesn't intend to
> give *anything* away.
>
>



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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[William Ferguson]

I took a shot at this and did the following

opened highlight reconstruction and set method to reconstruct in LCh and
clipping threshold to 2.000
decreased exposure .5 ev
opened color reconstruction and set threshold to 87.5 which gets rid of the
magenta
opened levels and moved the midtones right to the end of the highlights
with a parametric mask on the L channel so that the input numbers read 53
100 100 100 and mask blur to 41.9
adjusted the exposure up a little bit

sidecar is attached


Bill

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:04 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

> * Chris  [04-08-18 22:35]:
> > Agreed! The original cr2 would have more data.
> >
> > The fact remains though that LR is able to do a much better job with
> > this compressed DNG than DT can.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On 2018/04/08 07:21 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > > might be better if you would provide the "original" raw image instead
> of
> > > the conversion to dng image.  no conversion contains all the exact
> "original"
> > > image data.
>
> and you are using lr's app to convert the original to a file designed to
> be as compatible as possible to lr, not dt.  you will achieve better
> results in dt using the *original* file format.
>
> dng is definitely not designed with the intent to be compatible with
> anything not sold by adobe.  adobe wants profits, it doesn't intend to
> give *anything* away.
>
>
> --
> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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> lists.darktable.org
>
>


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_MG_1496.dng.xmp
Description: Binary data

Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Chris  [04-08-18 22:35]:
> Agreed! The original cr2 would have more data.
> 
> The fact remains though that LR is able to do a much better job with
> this compressed DNG than DT can.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> On 2018/04/08 07:21 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > might be better if you would provide the "original" raw image instead of
> > the conversion to dng image.  no conversion contains all the exact 
> > "original"
> > image data.

and you are using lr's app to convert the original to a file designed to
be as compatible as possible to lr, not dt.  you will achieve better
results in dt using the *original* file format.

dng is definitely not designed with the intent to be compatible with
anything not sold by adobe.  adobe wants profits, it doesn't intend to
give *anything* away.


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Agreed! The original cr2 would have more data.

The fact remains though that LR is able to do a much better job with
this compressed DNG than DT can.

Chris


On 2018/04/08 07:21 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> might be better if you would provide the "original" raw image instead of
> the conversion to dng image.  no conversion contains all the exact "original"
> image data.



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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Chris  [04-08-18 21:22]:
> Fascinating! So dt is clipping somewhere somehow, or the dng format
> 'pro' adobe somehow? :p
> 
> So, just taking this further and assuming the detail I was looking for
> was in the red channel.. I was able to desaturate the reds... but
> obviously this would not work if I had someone wearing red in the
> photograph. Proof that the detail exists though, albeit in an odd
> channel for clouds.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/slbor6tg6ymzd73/darkt_07.jpg?dl=0
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> On 2018/04/08 06:16 PM, Peter Cripps wrote:
> >
> > And, 'for the sake of science', I downloaded the .dng and opened it in
> > Lr and dt.
> >
> > The histograms are quite different, even allowing for log vs linear on
> > the y-axes. Lr shows a bunch of high intensity pixels on the far right
> > hand side; these are missing in dt. This is before applying any sliders.
> >
> > Again, I have seen similar results on several other images.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 04/08/2018 05:54 PM, Chris wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Guillermo,
> >>
> >> For the sake of science here is the .dng file I was using for both
> >> the DT & LR examples earlier.
> >>
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cavd1o7z8r5ao0n/_MG_1496.dng?dl=0
> >>
> >> Busy playing with it now paying more attention to the histogram.
> >>
> >> Chris

might be better if you would provide the "original" raw image instead of
the conversion to dng image.  no conversion contains all the exact "original"
image data.

-- 
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http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[David Vincent-Jones]

If I slightly move the s white point slider the image looks ok but the
reality is that the dt histogram initially reports that the sky is 'blown'.

My experience using dt over several years is to always  leave a little
room at the high end of the histogram during the taking process. This
has solved all of the highlight problems that I previously had.

David

On 04/08/2018 06:19 PM, Chris wrote:
> Fascinating! So dt is clipping somewhere somehow, or the dng format
> 'pro' adobe somehow? :p
> 
> So, just taking this further and assuming the detail I was looking for
> was in the red channel.. I was able to desaturate the reds... but
> obviously this would not work if I had someone wearing red in the
> photograph. Proof that the detail exists though, albeit in an odd
> channel for clouds.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/slbor6tg6ymzd73/darkt_07.jpg?dl=0
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> On 2018/04/08 06:16 PM, Peter Cripps wrote:
>>
>> And, 'for the sake of science', I downloaded the .dng and opened it in
>> Lr and dt.
>>
>> The histograms are quite different, even allowing for log vs linear on
>> the y-axes. Lr shows a bunch of high intensity pixels on the far right
>> hand side; these are missing in dt. This is before applying any sliders.
>>
>> Again, I have seen similar results on several other images.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/08/2018 05:54 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Guillermo,
>>>
>>> For the sake of science here is the .dng file I was using for both
>>> the DT & LR examples earlier.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cavd1o7z8r5ao0n/_MG_1496.dng?dl=0
>>>
>>> Busy playing with it now paying more attention to the histogram.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>>
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Fascinating! So dt is clipping somewhere somehow, or the dng format
'pro' adobe somehow? :p

So, just taking this further and assuming the detail I was looking for
was in the red channel.. I was able to desaturate the reds... but
obviously this would not work if I had someone wearing red in the
photograph. Proof that the detail exists though, albeit in an odd
channel for clouds.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/slbor6tg6ymzd73/darkt_07.jpg?dl=0

Chris


On 2018/04/08 06:16 PM, Peter Cripps wrote:
>
> And, 'for the sake of science', I downloaded the .dng and opened it in
> Lr and dt.
>
> The histograms are quite different, even allowing for log vs linear on
> the y-axes. Lr shows a bunch of high intensity pixels on the far right
> hand side; these are missing in dt. This is before applying any sliders.
>
> Again, I have seen similar results on several other images.
>
>
>
>
> On 04/08/2018 05:54 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>> Hi Guillermo,
>>
>> For the sake of science here is the .dng file I was using for both
>> the DT & LR examples earlier.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cavd1o7z8r5ao0n/_MG_1496.dng?dl=0
>>
>> Busy playing with it now paying more attention to the histogram.
>>
>> Chris
>
>
> 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Peter Cripps]

And, 'for the sake of science', I downloaded the .dng and opened it in 
Lr and dt.


The histograms are quite different, even allowing for log vs linear on 
the y-axes. Lr shows a bunch of high intensity pixels on the far right 
hand side; these are missing in dt. This is before applying any sliders.


Again, I have seen similar results on several other images.




On 04/08/2018 05:54 PM, Chris wrote:


Hi Guillermo,

For the sake of science here is the .dng file I was using for both the 
DT & LR examples earlier.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/cavd1o7z8r5ao0n/_MG_1496.dng?dl=0

Busy playing with it now paying more attention to the histogram.

Chris




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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Hi,

Seems as though the pink colours appear in my image when I disable
'highlight reconstruction'. With this disabled the Green & Blue channels
have a lot less data in the highlights than the red. Enable highlight
recon, and it seems to scale all the RGB to a simple range.

Odd, because I do not get this pink appear when I reduce the highlights
in Lightroom... and I am still using this same .dng file.

Chris


On 2018/04/08 05:34 PM, Guillermo Rozas wrote:
> It may be truth (we need a developer to confirm), but in this case it
> seems to be working like I say. Try it:
> - open a picture
> - over-expose it with the Exposure module
> - try to recover using the shift white point slider on Shadows and
> highlights.
> Doing that, I lose all detail in the highlights. At some points in the
> pipeline there are color space transformations, and that may clamp the
> values to the limits to avoid problems (total speculation)
> Regards,
> Guillermo
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Robert Bieber  > wrote:
>
> Don't quote me on this, but since the pixel values are all floats
> I'm pretty sure it's possible for one module to push them beyond
> the "maximum" values and another one to bring them back in with
> the detail still there, as long as everything ends up within the
> allowable bounds by the time it gets converted to int
>
>
> On 04/08/2018 07:11 PM, Guillermo Rozas wrote:
>> Can you provide the original DNG so people can play with it?
>>
>> One think you should take into account is that modules in
>> Darktable are applied in a certain order (bottom to top on
>> darkroom). In particular, "Exposure" and "Base Curve" come before
>> "Shadows and highlights". So, if Exposure pushes the info of the
>> sky past the white point, you can not get it back later (at least
>> that's how I understand it). Going by the histogram, it looks
>> like this is what happening to your picture (there are a lot of
>> pixels close to the right edge): the info was there before the
>> exposure (and base curve) modules, but not by time you get to the
>> shadows and highlights module.
>>
>> Two tips I can give you:
>> - check the RAW over-exposure indicator (small colors icon below
>> and to the right of the picture in darkroom). If the area is
>> really non-recoverable it will show as over exposed in RAW. If
>> not, there is a way to recover it (not always easy, but the info
>> is there)
>> - my first step when editing complex pictures is to use the
>> exposure and black sliders on the Exposure module to fit the data
>> exactly inside the histogram (using the normal under/over
>> exposure indicator). Then I know I'm working with almost all the
>> info the file have.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Guillermo
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Peter Cripps
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things
>> that I've found Lightroom does better than darktable is
>> highlight recovery.
>>
>> I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to
>> show content at the far right hand side that does show in the
>> Lightroom histogram. Don't know if this is relevant.
>>
>> I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the
>> fact that darktable is entirely created by people working on
>> their own time. It seems ungrateful to pick out one thing
>> that isn't perhaps as good as with other paid programs.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to
>>> full 'reveal' the detail in the clouds that I know exists...
>>> it simply darkens the existing pixels that we can already
>>> see. So not really 'recovering detail' as such.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0
>>> 
>>>
>>> and pushed further
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0
>>> 
>>>
>>> obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just
>>> do not compare to the clarity revealed from LR.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0
>>> 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:
 Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
> Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.
 You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, 

Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Hi Guillermo,

For the sake of science here is the .dng file I was using for both the
DT & LR examples earlier.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cavd1o7z8r5ao0n/_MG_1496.dng?dl=0

Busy playing with it now paying more attention to the histogram.

Chris

On 2018/04/08 04:17 PM, Robert Bieber wrote:
>
> Don't quote me on this, but since the pixel values are all floats I'm
> pretty sure it's possible for one module to push them beyond the
> "maximum" values and another one to bring them back in with the detail
> still there, as long as everything ends up within the allowable bounds
> by the time it gets converted to int
>
>
> On 04/08/2018 07:11 PM, Guillermo Rozas wrote:
>> Can you provide the original DNG so people can play with it?
>>
>> One think you should take into account is that modules in Darktable
>> are applied in a certain order (bottom to top on darkroom). In
>> particular, "Exposure" and "Base Curve" come before "Shadows and
>> highlights". So, if Exposure pushes the info of the sky past the
>> white point, you can not get it back later (at least that's how I
>> understand it). Going by the histogram, it looks like this is what
>> happening to your picture (there are a lot of pixels close to the
>> right edge): the info was there before the exposure (and base curve)
>> modules, but not by time you get to the shadows and highlights module.
>>
>> Two tips I can give you:
>> - check the RAW over-exposure indicator (small colors icon below and
>> to the right of the picture in darkroom). If the area is really
>> non-recoverable it will show as over exposed in RAW. If not, there is
>> a way to recover it (not always easy, but the info is there)
>> - my first step when editing complex pictures is to use the exposure
>> and black sliders on the Exposure module to fit the data exactly
>> inside the histogram (using the normal under/over exposure
>> indicator). Then I know I'm working with almost all the info the file
>> have.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Guillermo
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Peter Cripps > > wrote:
>>
>> I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things that
>> I've found Lightroom does better than darktable is highlight
>> recovery.
>>
>> I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to show
>> content at the far right hand side that does show in the
>> Lightroom histogram. Don't know if this is relevant.
>>
>> I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the fact
>> that darktable is entirely created by people working on their own
>> time. It seems ungrateful to pick out one thing that isn't
>> perhaps as good as with other paid programs.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full
>>> 'reveal' the detail in the clouds that I know exists... it
>>> simply darkens the existing pixels that we can already see. So
>>> not really 'recovering detail' as such.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0
>>> 
>>>
>>> and pushed further
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0
>>> 
>>>
>>> obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do
>>> not compare to the clarity revealed from LR.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0
>>> 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:
 Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
> Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.
 You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
 nothing done for darktable :)
  
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
> 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Guillermo Rozas]

It may be truth (we need a developer to confirm), but in this case it seems
to be working like I say. Try it:
- open a picture
- over-expose it with the Exposure module
- try to recover using the shift white point slider on Shadows and
highlights.
Doing that, I lose all detail in the highlights. At some points in the
pipeline there are color space transformations, and that may clamp the
values to the limits to avoid problems (total speculation)
Regards,
Guillermo

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Robert Bieber 
wrote:

> Don't quote me on this, but since the pixel values are all floats I'm
> pretty sure it's possible for one module to push them beyond the "maximum"
> values and another one to bring them back in with the detail still there,
> as long as everything ends up within the allowable bounds by the time it
> gets converted to int
>
> On 04/08/2018 07:11 PM, Guillermo Rozas wrote:
>
> Can you provide the original DNG so people can play with it?
>
> One think you should take into account is that modules in Darktable are
> applied in a certain order (bottom to top on darkroom). In particular,
> "Exposure" and "Base Curve" come before "Shadows and highlights". So, if
> Exposure pushes the info of the sky past the white point, you can not get
> it back later (at least that's how I understand it). Going by the
> histogram, it looks like this is what happening to your picture (there are
> a lot of pixels close to the right edge): the info was there before the
> exposure (and base curve) modules, but not by time you get to the shadows
> and highlights module.
>
> Two tips I can give you:
> - check the RAW over-exposure indicator (small colors icon below and to
> the right of the picture in darkroom). If the area is really
> non-recoverable it will show as over exposed in RAW. If not, there is a way
> to recover it (not always easy, but the info is there)
> - my first step when editing complex pictures is to use the exposure and
> black sliders on the Exposure module to fit the data exactly inside the
> histogram (using the normal under/over exposure indicator). Then I know I'm
> working with almost all the info the file have.
>
> Best regards,
> Guillermo
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Peter Cripps 
> wrote:
>
>> I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things that I've
>> found Lightroom does better than darktable is highlight recovery.
>>
>> I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to show content
>> at the far right hand side that does show in the Lightroom histogram. Don't
>> know if this is relevant.
>>
>> I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the fact that
>> darktable is entirely created by people working on their own time. It seems
>> ungrateful to pick out one thing that isn't perhaps as good as with other
>> paid programs.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full 'reveal'
>> the detail in the clouds that I know exists... it simply darkens the
>> existing pixels that we can already see. So not really 'recovering detail'
>> as such.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> and pushed further
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do not
>> compare to the clarity revealed from LR.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:
>>
>> Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
>>
>> Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.
>>
>> You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
>> nothing done for darktable :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>>
>
>
> 
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> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Robert Bieber]

Don't quote me on this, but since the pixel values are all floats I'm 
pretty sure it's possible for one module to push them beyond the 
"maximum" values and another one to bring them back in with the detail 
still there, as long as everything ends up within the allowable bounds 
by the time it gets converted to int



On 04/08/2018 07:11 PM, Guillermo Rozas wrote:

Can you provide the original DNG so people can play with it?

One think you should take into account is that modules in Darktable 
are applied in a certain order (bottom to top on darkroom). In 
particular, "Exposure" and "Base Curve" come before "Shadows and 
highlights". So, if Exposure pushes the info of the sky past the white 
point, you can not get it back later (at least that's how I understand 
it). Going by the histogram, it looks like this is what happening to 
your picture (there are a lot of pixels close to the right edge): the 
info was there before the exposure (and base curve) modules, but not 
by time you get to the shadows and highlights module.


Two tips I can give you:
- check the RAW over-exposure indicator (small colors icon below and 
to the right of the picture in darkroom). If the area is really 
non-recoverable it will show as over exposed in RAW. If not, there is 
a way to recover it (not always easy, but the info is there)
- my first step when editing complex pictures is to use the exposure 
and black sliders on the Exposure module to fit the data exactly 
inside the histogram (using the normal under/over exposure indicator). 
Then I know I'm working with almost all the info the file have.


Best regards,
Guillermo

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Peter Cripps > wrote:


I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things that
I've found Lightroom does better than darktable is highlight
recovery.

I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to show
content at the far right hand side that does show in the Lightroom
histogram. Don't know if this is relevant.

I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the fact
that darktable is entirely created by people working on their own
time. It seems ungrateful to pick out one thing that isn't perhaps
as good as with other paid programs.

Peter




On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:


Hi,

So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full
'reveal' the detail in the clouds that I know exists... it simply
darkens the existing pixels that we can already see. So not
really 'recovering detail' as such.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0


and pushed further

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0


obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do
not compare to the clarity revealed from LR.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0


Thanks,

Chris


On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:

Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :

Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.

You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
nothing done for darktable :)
  




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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Guillermo Rozas]

Can you provide the original DNG so people can play with it?

One think you should take into account is that modules in Darktable are
applied in a certain order (bottom to top on darkroom). In particular,
"Exposure" and "Base Curve" come before "Shadows and highlights". So, if
Exposure pushes the info of the sky past the white point, you can not get
it back later (at least that's how I understand it). Going by the
histogram, it looks like this is what happening to your picture (there are
a lot of pixels close to the right edge): the info was there before the
exposure (and base curve) modules, but not by time you get to the shadows
and highlights module.

Two tips I can give you:
- check the RAW over-exposure indicator (small colors icon below and to the
right of the picture in darkroom). If the area is really non-recoverable it
will show as over exposed in RAW. If not, there is a way to recover it (not
always easy, but the info is there)
- my first step when editing complex pictures is to use the exposure and
black sliders on the Exposure module to fit the data exactly inside the
histogram (using the normal under/over exposure indicator). Then I know I'm
working with almost all the info the file have.

Best regards,
Guillermo

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Peter Cripps  wrote:

> I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things that I've
> found Lightroom does better than darktable is highlight recovery.
>
> I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to show content
> at the far right hand side that does show in the Lightroom histogram. Don't
> know if this is relevant.
>
> I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the fact that
> darktable is entirely created by people working on their own time. It seems
> ungrateful to pick out one thing that isn't perhaps as good as with other
> paid programs.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full 'reveal' the
> detail in the clouds that I know exists... it simply darkens the existing
> pixels that we can already see. So not really 'recovering detail' as such.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0
>
> and pushed further
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0
>
> obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do not
> compare to the clarity revealed from LR.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:
>
> Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
>
> Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.
>
> You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
> nothing done for darktable :)
>
>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>
> 
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> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[August Schwerdfeger]

To quote the "Development" page on the website:

Just use it! And afterwards let us know how you like it. Send your bug
reports, feature requests, suggestions or just your personal opinion to our
mailing list.

--
August Schwerdfeger
aug...@schwerdfeger.name

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 5:25 PM, Chris  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Couldn't agree with you more Peter. I am not trying to pick apart
> darktable... as I have actually just dumped adobe and am switching to
> darktable fully. So I am really just trying to learn the program and
> understand it better.
>
> Maybe there is a way to really get to the nitty gritty of the raw file and
> poke around in those colour ranges?
>
> Chris
>
> On 2018/04/08 03:04 PM, Peter Cripps wrote:
>
> I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things that I've
> found Lightroom does better than darktable is highlight recovery.
>
> I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to show content
> at the far right hand side that does show in the Lightroom histogram. Don't
> know if this is relevant.
>
> I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the fact that
> darktable is entirely created by people working on their own time. It seems
> ungrateful to pick out one thing that isn't perhaps as good as with other
> paid programs.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full 'reveal' the
> detail in the clouds that I know exists... it simply darkens the existing
> pixels that we can already see. So not really 'recovering detail' as such.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0
>
> and pushed further
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0
>
> obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do not
> compare to the clarity revealed from LR.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
> On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:
>
> Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
>
> Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.
>
> You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
> nothing done for darktable :)
>
>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Hi,

Couldn't agree with you more Peter. I am not trying to pick apart
darktable... as I have actually just dumped adobe and am switching to
darktable fully. So I am really just trying to learn the program and
understand it better.

Maybe there is a way to really get to the nitty gritty of the raw file
and poke around in those colour ranges?

Chris


On 2018/04/08 03:04 PM, Peter Cripps wrote:
>
> I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things that I've
> found Lightroom does better than darktable is highlight recovery.
>
> I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to show
> content at the far right hand side that does show in the Lightroom
> histogram. Don't know if this is relevant.
>
> I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the fact that
> darktable is entirely created by people working on their own time. It
> seems ungrateful to pick out one thing that isn't perhaps as good as
> with other paid programs.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full
>> 'reveal' the detail in the clouds that I know exists... it simply
>> darkens the existing pixels that we can already see. So not really
>> 'recovering detail' as such.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> and pushed further
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do not
>> compare to the clarity revealed from LR.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:
>>> Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
 Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.
>>> You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
>>> nothing done for darktable :)
>>>  
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Peter Cripps]

I've seen similar results to Chris. One of the (few) things that I've 
found Lightroom does better than darktable is highlight recovery.


I have noticed that the darktable histogram doesn't seem to show content 
at the far right hand side that does show in the Lightroom histogram. 
Don't know if this is relevant.


I hesitate to mention this, since I'm very conscious of the fact that 
darktable is entirely created by people working on their own time. It 
seems ungrateful to pick out one thing that isn't perhaps as good as 
with other paid programs.


Peter




On 04/08/2018 02:51 PM, Chris wrote:


Hi,

So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full 'reveal' 
the detail in the clouds that I know exists... it simply darkens the 
existing pixels that we can already see. So not really 'recovering 
detail' as such.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0

and pushed further

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0

obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do not 
compare to the clarity revealed from LR.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0

Thanks,

Chris


On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:

Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :

Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.

You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
nothing done for darktable :)
  



 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Hi,

So the shadows & highlights module also does not seem to full 'reveal'
the detail in the clouds that I know exists... it simply darkens the
existing pixels that we can already see. So not really 'recovering
detail' as such.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3lo4oy9dokdbwh/darkt_04.jpg?dl=0

and pushed further

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zih4f434frcxizu/darkt_05.jpg?dl=0

obviously I am going to extremes here... but they still just do not
compare to the clarity revealed from LR.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0

Thanks,

Chris


On 2018/04/08 02:30 PM, Pascal Obry wrote:
> Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
>> Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.
> You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
> nothing done for darktable :)
>  



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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Pascal Obry]

Le dimanche 08 avril 2018 à 14:25 -0700, Chris a écrit :
> Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.

You haven't activate the "shadows & highlight" module, so indeed
nothing done for darktable :)
 
-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Here are my results

DarkTable - UnEdited =
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jd4ozjhqrw1ft50/darkt_01.jpg?dl=0
LightRoom - UnEdited =
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vbufsvyezodi7n/lr_01.jpg?dl=0

LightRoom - Highlight Slider =
https://www.dropbox.com/s/suw9v3jnsszbsec/lr_02.jpg?dl=0
see the amount of detail in the sky (all from the same .dng file)

DarkTable - Highlight Reconstruction =
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iruhnc9egalo699/darkt_02.jpg?dl=0
barely any detail recovered, and a pink colour being introduced

DarkTable - Highlight & Pushed Base Curve =
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ncph558coo1ao7u/darkt_03.jpg?dl=0
here I left the highlight reconstruction enabled and really pulled the
highlights down in the base curve... you can see it does read some extra
detail... just forces more of the odd pink colour into the image.

Anyway, these are my adventures into highlights in DarkTable.

Chris


On 2018/04/08 01:57 PM, Matej Martinovic wrote:
> Hello,
> maybe this helps: https://www.darktable.org/2015/03/color-reconstruction/
>
>
>  On So, 08 Apr 2018 22:10:42 +0200 *Chris *
> wrote 
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am a recent convert to Darktable, and seem to be battling to
> find a good way to recover detail in highlights. Lightroom does
> such a good job of it with a single slider.
>
> I found this video: https://hooktube.com/watch?v=JF5CFQPgidk but
> he doesn't recover any detail, simply push colour into area's that
> are washed out... which is not what I am attempting to achieve. I
> would like to see the details in blown out cloudy skies recovered.
> Since I have literally seen this possible in lightroom, I am
> surprise I cannot recover the detail on the same raw file within
> darktable.
>
> Maybe you have all seen this question before, and have some
> suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
> 
> 
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>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Matej Martinovic]

Hello, 

maybe this helps: https://www.darktable.org/2015/03/color-reconstruction/





 On So, 08 Apr 2018 22:10:42 +0200 Chris bydersjo...@gmail.com 
wrote 




Hi All,

I am a recent convert to Darktable, and seem to be battling to find a good way 
to recover detail in highlights. Lightroom does such a good job of it with a 
single slider.

I found this video: https://hooktube.com/watch?v=JF5CFQPgidk but he doesn't 
recover any detail, simply push colour into area's that are washed out... which 
is not what I am attempting to achieve. I would like to see the details in 
blown out cloudy skies recovered. Since I have literally seen this possible in 
lightroom, I am surprise I cannot recover the detail on the same raw file 
within darktable.

Maybe you have all seen this question before, and have some suggestions?

Thanks,

Chris



 
darktable user mailing list to unsubscribe send a mail 
todarktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org 








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[darktable-user] Highlight Details

[Chris]

Hi All,

I am a recent convert to Darktable, and seem to be battling to find a
good way to recover detail in highlights. Lightroom does such a good job
of it with a single slider.

I found this video: https://hooktube.com/watch?v=JF5CFQPgidk but he
doesn't recover any detail, simply push colour into area's that are
washed out... which is not what I am attempting to achieve. I would like
to see the details in blown out cloudy skies recovered. Since I have
literally seen this possible in lightroom, I am surprise I cannot
recover the detail on the same raw file within darktable.

Maybe you have all seen this question before, and have some suggestions?

Thanks,

Chris



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