Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)
Am 09/07/2016 10:15 PM, schrieb Marcus: Am 09/07/2016 09:56 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: -Original Message- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:02 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?) Am 09/05/2016 12:49 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: [ ... ] 3d. My second question is, why is not<http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, the material at <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo- site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext> used. That page was created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been part of fixes made as recently as 2014. This xx area is perfect for localization usage, and would allow others to create localized versions, it seems to me. Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it not be deleted from the current SVN trunk? My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the opportunity for localizations in other languages, not just German, could be handled in what appears to be the standard way. I don't know. I think it was simply not used. If there was a decision then it is years ago. But you are contributor as long as me for this project. So, you could know it also - or even not. ;-) I know we had decided that we use the w.oo.o domain for the software and just a little for the project. With oo.a.o it was the opposite. Over the years this limitation got a bit more fuzzy and the both webpages can be one of this fuzziness. In order to anticipate your next question: Yes, we can change it. I would also go for the "xx/participate/index.mdtext" webpage as it can be localized and integrated into the localized webpages. Then the user can get approached in their own language which is - of course - more effective than to speak in English only. [orcmid] Great! I think that would be a better way forward. to start a bit easier I would first copy & paste the content from "get-involved.html". Put the - now known - main problems and requirements first und put thinks like donation at the bottom. And then add new things into the right order. If there is no volunteer faster, then I will start beginning or at the weekend. on a second look the both pages [1] and [2] are very similar. So, I have updated just a few things and kept them equal. If there is more to do just give me a hint. [1] http://www.openoffice.org/xx/participate/index.html [2] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)
Am 09/07/2016 09:56 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: -Original Message- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:02 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?) Am 09/05/2016 12:49 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: [ ... ] 3d. My second question is, why is not<http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, the material at <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo- site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext> used. That page was created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been part of fixes made as recently as 2014. This xx area is perfect for localization usage, and would allow others to create localized versions, it seems to me. Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it not be deleted from the current SVN trunk? My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the opportunity for localizations in other languages, not just German, could be handled in what appears to be the standard way. I don't know. I think it was simply not used. If there was a decision then it is years ago. But you are contributor as long as me for this project. So, you could know it also - or even not. ;-) I know we had decided that we use the w.oo.o domain for the software and just a little for the project. With oo.a.o it was the opposite. Over the years this limitation got a bit more fuzzy and the both webpages can be one of this fuzziness. In order to anticipate your next question: Yes, we can change it. I would also go for the "xx/participate/index.mdtext" webpage as it can be localized and integrated into the localized webpages. Then the user can get approached in their own language which is - of course - more effective than to speak in English only. [orcmid] Great! I think that would be a better way forward. to start a bit easier I would first copy & paste the content from "get-involved.html". Put the - now known - main problems and requirements first und put thinks like donation at the bottom. And then add new things into the right order. If there is no volunteer faster, then I will start beginning or at the weekend. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)
> -Original Message- > From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 12:02 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: > What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?) > > Am 09/05/2016 12:49 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: [ ... ] > > 3d. My second question is, why is > not<http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, the material at > > <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo- > site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext> used. That page was > created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been part of fixes made > as recently as 2014. This xx area is perfect for localization usage, > and would allow others to create localized versions, it seems to me. > >Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it > not be deleted from the current SVN trunk? > >My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the > opportunity for localizations in other languages, not just German, could > be handled in what appears to be the standard way. > > I don't know. I think it was simply not used. If there was a decision > then it is years ago. But you are contributor as long as me for this > project. So, you could know it also - or even not. ;-) > > I know we had decided that we use the w.oo.o domain for the software and > just a little for the project. With oo.a.o it was the opposite. Over the > years this limitation got a bit more fuzzy and the both webpages can be > one of this fuzziness. > > In order to anticipate your next question: > > Yes, we can change it. I would also go for the > "xx/participate/index.mdtext" webpage as it can be localized and > integrated into the localized webpages. Then the user can get approached > in their own language which is - of course - more effective than to > speak in English only. [orcmid] Great! I think that would be a better way forward. > > Marcus > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)
Am 09/05/2016 12:49 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: -Original Message- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 10:34 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? Am 09/04/2016 06:43 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: [ ... ] [orcmid] Forget about http://helpwanted.apache.org for the moment. I think I know what is required there. 3. I did look at putting something on the current<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html> page. Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on openoffice.org. My error. That explains why ooo-site does not have any get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we appreciate every contribution), some users want to get more involved and volunteer their time and expertise with the project." Is this a hack on<http://www.openoffice.org> to break out of the localization model and link "I want to participate in OpenOffice" to what we call the project site,<http://openoffice.apache.org>? I don't understand your question. This exists since, hm, I don't know when, maybe ever. It also creates a special island where certain kinds of task are recruited from the German Language community, with a separate dev-de@ list. That separation puzzles me. This is not a special thing. It's just a translation of the English "get_involved" webpage. I'm sorry but I still don't know what you really want to do. [orcmid] Let me restate my question. 3a. I found<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/site/trunk/content/get-involved.mdtext> once I realized I was looking in the wrong place. I get that the page was created in June 2011 by robweir and was last updated in 2012 and then again in 2015 when the link to a standalone German page was added. 3b. The adjacent German page was created on my birthday in January, 2015, by joesch. 3c. My first question is why is not<http://www.openoffice.org/contibuting>, the material at <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/index.html> used? If that is obsolete, should we not deleted that folder from the current SVN trunk? 3d. My second question is, why is not<http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, the material at <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext> used. That page was created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been part of fixes made as recently as 2014. This xx area is perfect for localization usage, and would allow others to create localized versions, it seems to me. Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it not be deleted from the current SVN trunk? My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the opportunity for localizations in other languages, not just German, could be handled in what appears to be the standard way. I don't know. I think it was simply not used. If there was a decision then it is years ago. But you are contributor as long as me for this project. So, you could know it also - or even not. ;-) I know we had decided that we use the w.oo.o domain for the software and just a little for the project. With oo.a.o it was the opposite. Over the years this limitation got a bit more fuzzy and the both webpages can be one of this fuzziness. In order to anticipate your next question: Yes, we can change it. I would also go for the "xx/participate/index.mdtext" webpage as it can be localized and integrated into the localized webpages. Then the user can get approached in their own language which is - of course - more effective than to speak in English only. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
ooo-site "Participation/Help-Wanted" structure (was RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?)
> -Original Message- > From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 10:34 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > > Am 09/04/2016 06:43 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: [ ... ] [orcmid] Forget about http://helpwanted.apache.org for the moment. I think I know what is required there. > > 3. I did look at putting something on the > current<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html> page. > > > > Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on > openoffice.org. My error. That explains why ooo-site does not have any > get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and > the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to > support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we > appreciate every contribution), some users want to get more involved and > volunteer their time and expertise with the project." > > > > Is this a hack on<http://www.openoffice.org> to break out of the > localization model and link "I want to participate in OpenOffice" to > what we call the project site,<http://openoffice.apache.org>? > > I don't understand your question. This exists since, hm, I don't know > when, maybe ever. > > It also creates a special island where certain kinds of task are > recruited from the German Language community, with a separate dev-de@ > list. That separation puzzles me. > > This is not a special thing. It's just a translation of the English > "get_involved" webpage. > > I'm sorry but I still don't know what you really want to do. [orcmid] Let me restate my question. 3a. I found <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/site/trunk/content/get-involved.mdtext> once I realized I was looking in the wrong place. I get that the page was created in June 2011 by robweir and was last updated in 2012 and then again in 2015 when the link to a standalone German page was added. 3b. The adjacent German page was created on my birthday in January, 2015, by joesch. 3c. My first question is why is not <http://www.openoffice.org/contibuting>, the material at <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/index.html> used? If that is obsolete, should we not deleted that folder from the current SVN trunk? 3d. My second question is, why is not <http://www.openoffice.org/participate>, the material at <https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/xx/participate/index.mdtext> used. That page was created in August 2013 (also by robweir) and has been part of fixes made as recently as 2014. This xx area is perfect for localization usage, and would allow others to create localized versions, it seems to me. Again, if this folder is not actually used on the site, should it not be deleted from the current SVN trunk? My preference would be for the xx to be used so that the opportunity for localizations in other languages, not just German, could be handled in what appears to be the standard way. What is the barrier? > > Marcus > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Am 09/04/2016 06:43 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: -Original Message- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 02:09 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? -Original Message- From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? [ ... ] Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to contribute. Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately. I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will dig into that too. [orcmid] I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page. It does not fit will with that. you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-) I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own. The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too. Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage [1] to hightlight better the need for more devs. It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can be lengthy. I am going to stop looking into that for now. Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working like it is now? Any points to reasons? [1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html [orcmid] I wanted to train myself and one way is to look at the code. It helped me understand the way that the localization is handled in the .js JavaScripts that the web site depends so much on. I wanted to discern the principles and then keep faith with them. 1. With regard to the widget, I was able to add it to the Orange "Help Wanted" block on a test version of the English/default download page (the only page that has it on the live site). The reason that I did not propose it is the widget does not look good that way. A better widget using the current source of the data would be needed. That becomes a more-involved dev-community activity and I was not prepared to go there. Also, help-wanted widget is still experimental and we might run into maintenance issues as there is more development of the widget. 2. The current widget (obtained from http://helpwanted.apache.org) can be customized to show just "openoffice" items. I added one to confirm that works. However, it appears that the widget does the equivalent of "show me everything" which is why it should be on a separate page. The list could become rather long. We could also have a page that works more like the helpwanted.apache.org page, but about Apache openoffice only, adding a link to the helpwanted.a.o for folks who want to know about helpwanted-tasks for all ASF projects. Before we do any of that, we need to populate helpwanted.a.o with more OpenOffice tasks. 3. I did look at putting something on the current<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html> page. Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on openoffice.org. My error. That explains why ooo-site does not have any get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we appreciate every contribution), some users want to get more involved and volunteer their time and expertise with the project." Is this a hack on<http://www.openoffice.org> to break out of the localization model and link "I want to participate in OpenOffice" to what we call the project site,<http://openoffice.apache.org>? I don't understand your question. This exists since, hm, I don't know when, maybe ever.
RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> -Original Message- > From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 02:09 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > > Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] > >> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18 > >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > >> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > >> > >> > >> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] > >>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 > >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > >>> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > > [ ... ] > >> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted > on > >> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can > >> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for > >> assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can > be > >> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other > places > >> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted > item > >> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the > >> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer > >> find details enough to decide how to contribute. > >> > >> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately. > >> > >> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I > will > >> dig into that too. > > [orcmid] > > > > I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download > page. It does not fit will with that. > > you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it > works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-) > > > I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its > own. > > The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a > point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for > this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too. > > Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage > [1] to hightlight better the need for more devs. > > > It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted > tasks can be lengthy. > > > > I am going to stop looking into that for now. > > Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act > to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working > like it is now? Any points to reasons? > > [1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html > [orcmid] I wanted to train myself and one way is to look at the code. It helped me understand the way that the localization is handled in the .js JavaScripts that the web site depends so much on. I wanted to discern the principles and then keep faith with them. 1. With regard to the widget, I was able to add it to the Orange "Help Wanted" block on a test version of the English/default download page (the only page that has it on the live site). The reason that I did not propose it is the widget does not look good that way. A better widget using the current source of the data would be needed. That becomes a more-involved dev-community activity and I was not prepared to go there. Also, help-wanted widget is still experimental and we might run into maintenance issues as there is more development of the widget. 2. The current widget (obtained from http://helpwanted.apache.org) can be customized to show just "openoffice" items. I added one to confirm that works. However, it appears that the widget does the equivalent of "show me everything" which is why it should be on a separate page. The list could become rather long. We could also have a page that works more like the helpwanted.apache.org page, but about Apache openoffice only, adding a link to the helpwanted.a.o for folks who want to know about helpwanted-tasks for all ASF projects. Before we do any of that, we need to populate helpwanted.a.o with more OpenOffice tasks. 3. I did look at putting something on the current <http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html> page. Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on openoffice.org. My error. That explains why ooo-site does not have any get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and the sentence
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Marcus schreef op 04-09-2016 11:09: you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-) How common is not that experience ;-). For some reason in Linux (or in general) we assume or we are given reasons to believe that people will not answer our calls when we ask for help, and we do ask for help (often in frustration) people send us into the woods or say that we need to find the answer on our own (for instance by reading help pages better) and so we assume and regret the fact that it is unlikely a question will simply be answered. So we plough on in despair and work hard to find the answer that someone else already has (but sometimes refuses to give ;-)). And then when someone says "you can just ask" we are flabbergasted because most of the time we are told the opposite How strange a gesture of friendliness in this world. How strange a gesture of friendliness. But I suggest you do not focus solely on acquiring more volunteers or workers or developers. What you need is to put forth a vision that will attract those people. Do not try to attract them yourself, let the vision attract them. After all, you seek to inspire those people right? Inspiration is like the opposite of transpiration: it gives energy. Maybe it is the opposite of expiration you don't want the project to expire, so you need to inspire people. I mean, start by positioning Apache OpenOffice in a way that gives it new life. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
We still need PackageMaker, from what I can tell, which is really, really deprecated. Has anyone tried porting that function to Packages or OSX's own pkgbuild? But yes, I do have PackageMaker installed and worked around the hardcoded path in configure... Why it does a strings on epm and looks for a hardcoded path is beyond me. :) > On Sep 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 05:20:08PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in >> configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits... > > For epm you have two options: > > - use --with-epm-url pointing to a tarball > > - build you own epm based on that very same version and > with AOO patches applied, then use --with-epm > > > These are my configure options: > > ./configure \ > --with-build-version="$(date +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S (%a, %d %b %Y)")" \ > --enable-verbose \ > --enable-crashdump=yes \ > --enable-wiki-publisher \ > --with-dmake-url=http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2 > \ > --with-epm-url=http://www.msweet.org/files/project2/epm-3.7-source.tar.gz \ > --enable-category-b \ > --enable-bundled-dictionaries \ > --with-package-format="installed dmg" \ > --with-jdk-home=/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_80.jdk/Contents/Home > \ > --with-ant-home=$HOME/aoo/build/apache-ant-1.9.7 \ > --with-perl-home=/usr/local/ActivePerl-5.24 \ > --disable-systray \ > --without-junit > > My OS X El Capitan is a clean environment, no marcports nor homebrew, > thus no headers in /usr/local nor /opt nor elsewhere (this is needed in > order to reproduce the missing OpenSSL system headers bug). I don't even > update nor install Perl modules, I just installed Perl from ActivePerl, > that comes with everything out of the box. > > > Regards > -- > Ariel Constenla-Haile - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? -Original Message- From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? [ ... ] I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers." I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate that message. I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@ [orcmid] We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out what to do with the offers. Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to contribute. Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately. I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will dig into that too. [orcmid] I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page. It does not fit will with that. you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-) I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own. The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too. Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage [1] to hightlight better the need for more devs. It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can be lengthy. I am going to stop looking into that for now. Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working like it is now? Any points to reasons? [1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> -Original Message- > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] > > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 > > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > > Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? [ ... ] > > I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: > > "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer > > developers, especially C++ programmers." > > > > I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or > > complicate that message. > > > > I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, > > just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to > > start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send > > an e-mail to recruitment@ > [orcmid] > > We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need > moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out > what to do with the offers. > > Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on > it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can > then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for > assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be > focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places > among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item > provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the > task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer > find details enough to decide how to contribute. > > Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately. > > I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will > dig into that too. [orcmid] I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page. It does not fit will with that. I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own. It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can be lengthy. I am going to stop looking into that for now. > > - Dennis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Hi Jim, On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 05:20:08PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote: > I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in > configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits... For epm you have two options: - use --with-epm-url pointing to a tarball - build you own epm based on that very same version and with AOO patches applied, then use --with-epm These are my configure options: ./configure \ --with-build-version="$(date +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S (%a, %d %b %Y)")" \ --enable-verbose \ --enable-crashdump=yes \ --enable-wiki-publisher \ --with-dmake-url=http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2 \ --with-epm-url=http://www.msweet.org/files/project2/epm-3.7-source.tar.gz \ --enable-category-b \ --enable-bundled-dictionaries \ --with-package-format="installed dmg" \ --with-jdk-home=/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_80.jdk/Contents/Home \ --with-ant-home=$HOME/aoo/build/apache-ant-1.9.7 \ --with-perl-home=/usr/local/ActivePerl-5.24 \ --disable-systray \ --without-junit My OS X El Capitan is a clean environment, no marcports nor homebrew, thus no headers in /usr/local nor /opt nor elsewhere (this is needed in order to reproduce the missing OpenSSL system headers bug). I don't even update nor install Perl modules, I just installed Perl from ActivePerl, that comes with everything out of the box. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits... Taking notes and will send patches in. > On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters. >> >> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ? > > I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to > apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=1714089 > because 10.11 isn't detected, but see > https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099 > > @Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report? > > > > Regards > -- > Ariel Constenla-Haile - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Jim Jagielski wrote: > Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters. > I have added a note to the page stating that it is deprecated along with a link to the newer page. Regards Keith > So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ? > >> On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: >> >> Jim Jagielski wrote: >>> According to >>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX >>> o OSX 10.4 or 10.5 >>> o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3 >>> o OSX 10.4 SDK >> >> Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache >> OpenOffice 4.0"? >> >> You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions: >> >> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX >> >> and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there. >> >>> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since, >>> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC. >> >> The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and >> moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer >> applies now. >> >>> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work >>> w/ Xcode 7? >> >> The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday >> is this one: >> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/ >> There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) >> that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but >> not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of >> XCode, for that matter). >> >> Regards, >> Andrea. >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote: > Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters. > > So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ? I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=1714089 because 10.11 isn't detected, but see https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099 @Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report? Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters. So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ? > On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: > > Jim Jagielski wrote: >> According to >> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX >> o OSX 10.4 or 10.5 >> o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3 >> o OSX 10.4 SDK > > Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache > OpenOffice 4.0"? > > You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions: > > https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX > > and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there. > >> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since, >> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC. > > The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and > moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer > applies now. > >> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work >> w/ Xcode 7? > > The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday > is this one: > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/ > There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) > that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but > not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of XCode, > for that matter). > > Regards, > Andrea. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Let me check. FWIW, I have now a 10.7 guest running on my MacPro via VMware Fusion. I am the legal licensee of that version as well. > On Sep 3, 2016, at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: > > It works on VMware VHosts too. > > Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that > could help grant a special license from Apple? > > Regards, > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> >> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically >> allows for it. And it works. >> >>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes >>> wrote: >>> >>> That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on >>> another >>> OS do they? >>> >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost more than a Mac Mini over a few months. For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building. The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the more powerful Macs and manage it directly. > On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > > Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal > hardware > is PC based, running Linux. > > I wonder if it would work to use something like this: > > http://www.macincloud.com/ > > Anybody have any experience with something like that? > > > Phil > > > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: > > On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >> >> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? >> >> On your own hardware: >> >> Repeat: >> Build a Mac OS X Binary; >> Fix the error messages you get; >> Write notes about what you did; >> Test the program functionality; >> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; >> >> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. >> >> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in >> response to the "retirement" discussion? >> >> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release >> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. >> >> jonathon >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Please be aware that the board does not "stick its nose" into the daily operations of a project. The current status of AOO came to the boards attention via the required PMC reports as well as other communications. It was only because of that that the board got involved. > On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: > > Then you should give the project every encouragement to get the build process > properly prepared. > > Our outgoing PMC chair should consider the same. > > Regards, > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni wrote: >>> >>> At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project. >> >> My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and >> effectively to security reports. >> >> Marvin Humphrey >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Jim Jagielski wrote: According to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX o OSX 10.4 or 10.5 o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3 o OSX 10.4 SDK Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache OpenOffice 4.0"? You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions: https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there. From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since, iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC. The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer applies now. The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work w/ Xcode 7? The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday is this one: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/ There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of XCode, for that matter). Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
It works on VMware VHosts too. Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that could help grant a special license from Apple? Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > > Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically > allows for it. And it works. > >> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >> >> That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on >> another >> OS do they? >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM >> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: >>> >>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I >>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of >>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body >>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost >>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months. >>> >>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan >>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum >>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building. >>> >>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac >>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the >>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal hardware is PC based, running Linux. I wonder if it would work to use something like this: http://www.macincloud.com/ Anybody have any experience with something like that? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > > What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? > > On your own hardware: > > Repeat: > Build a Mac OS X Binary; > Fix the error messages you get; > Write notes about what you did; > Test the program functionality; > Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; > > Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. > > How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in > response to the "retirement" discussion? > > At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release > before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. > > jonathon > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
According to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX o OSX 10.4 or 10.5 o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3 o OSX 10.4 SDK From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since, iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC. The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work w/ Xcode 7? I have a copy of the SDK and use the attached script to fold older SDKs in, but starting w/ Xcode7, it doesn't like it. S if, in fact, someone was able to *build* AOO on a recent (10.10 or 10.11) version of OSX and Xcode7, documenting that stuff on the above wiki page would be very, very useful. > On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:10 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: > > Jim Jagielski wrote: >> The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I >> checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one >> has such a beast laying around. > > When did you check? And what does "extremely old" mean? > > OpenOffice 4.1.2 was built with a version of XCode released 6 months earlier. > > I trust you've looked at our reference environments, right? If you need the > link again just look at archives from the last 24 hours, I've posted it into > another conversation. > > Regards, > Andrea. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically allows for it. And it works. > On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > > That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on > another > OS do they? > > > Phil > > > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > >> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I >> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of >> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body >> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost >> more than a Mac Mini over a few months. >> >> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan >> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum >> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building. >> >> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac >> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the >> more powerful Macs and manage it directly. >> >> >> >> >> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >> >>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal >>> hardware >>> is PC based, running Linux. >>> >>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this: >>> >>> http://www.macincloud.com/ >>> >>> Anybody have any experience with something like that? >>> >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: >>> >>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? > On your own hardware: Repeat: Build a Mac OS X Binary; Fix the error messages you get; Write notes about what you did; Test the program functionality; Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in > response to the "retirement" discussion? At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Thank you for the initiative. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 3, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > >> On 9/3/2016 2:07 AM, Marcus wrote: >> Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan: >>> Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that >>> happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators. >> >> that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have >> already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to >> exchange one, then I would help. > > It is more a consequence of my sense of urgency. I feel that the best > way to deal with the "shutdown AOO" movement is to push the "AOO needs > developers" message as immediately and strongly as possible. > > Normally, I would have waited a few days for the moderator list to > settle before filing the mailing list creation request, making time > zones irrelevant. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/3/2016 2:07 AM, Marcus wrote: Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan: Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators. that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to exchange one, then I would help. It is more a consequence of my sense of urgency. I feel that the best way to deal with the "shutdown AOO" movement is to push the "AOO needs developers" message as immediately and strongly as possible. Normally, I would have waited a few days for the moderator list to settle before filing the mailing list creation request, making time zones irrelevant. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan: Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators. that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to exchange one, then I would help. Marcus On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote: I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to the list of moderators. Regards Dave Original Message From: Patricia Shanahan To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700 Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public? Alternative volunteer for moderator? On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Patricia Shanahan wrote: If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and requests are usually honored within 48 hours. You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail address there, at least for the time being (next month or so). to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for an appeal for developers. I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators. On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote: I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to the list of moderators. Regards Dave Original Message From: Patricia Shanahan To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700 Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public? Alternative volunteer for moderator? On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Patricia Shanahan wrote: If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and requests are usually honored within 48 hours. You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail address there, at least for the time being (next month or so). to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for an appeal for developers. I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> From: Bruce Byfield [mailto:bbyfi...@axion.net] > I would suggest that the question goes beyond marketing. It is about > purpose as well. What makes AOO worth spending time on, as opposed to > any other similar project? It is the high quality and practical significance. OK, at the moment there are some problems, _but the intervention of Apache also shows that we are properly organized, we have a functioning quality management_. The update cycles are possibly a little too long, but not much. The right update cycle for commercial users, should be between 12-18 months are (necessary security updates in addition) > For that matter ask why people have NOT chosen AOO. Most people use AOO, LO is strong only on Linux. AOO to dominate under MS Windows, and there are >90% of all office users (AOO, LO, MS Office, etc.) > But why, for example, is AOO > almost totally > unrepresented in ODF Authors, For the German community, I can say that we edit the German-language documentation OO under the direction to the PrOOo box (www.prooo-box.org). 3 people working there permanently(!) at the german documentation, and currently employs a total of 5 people at the german documentation. You can see here our recent public email about documentation: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-users-de/201608.mbox/%3C005e01 d1fd3d%2481d13960%248573ac20%24%40wienandt.de%3E Note: the PrOOo box is formally a third-party-Project, but the workers there are also German community members of AOO. Jorg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to the list of moderators. Regards Dave Original Message From: Patricia Shanahan To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700 > Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public? > > Alternative volunteer for moderator? > > On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: >> Patricia Shanahan wrote: >>> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator >>> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? >> >> Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and >> requests are usually honored within 48 hours. >> >> You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be >> one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail >> address there, at least for the time being (next month or so). >> >>> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for >>> an appeal for developers. >> >> I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility >> is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes. >> >> Regards, >> Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
I have requested creation of the mailing list, with Andrea and myself as moderators. On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Patricia Shanahan wrote: If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and requests are usually honored within 48 hours. You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail address there, at least for the time being (next month or so). to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for an appeal for developers. I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On September 3, 2016 12:38:56 AM toki wrote: >On 02/09/2016 19:06, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >>> What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related projects like > >LibreOffice cannot? > >> That is not an important question: >In terms of marketing that is the only question that is relevant. >It doesn't matter if you are trying to get more developers, or trying >to get more corporations to use AOo, or trying to get more individual >users to use AOo. I would suggest that the question goes beyond marketing. It is about purpose as well. What makes AOO worth spending time on, as opposed to any other similar project? Perhaps you might start by asking those who have been involved in AOO and OpenOffice.org what attracted them in the past, and why or why not the same attractions still exist. For that matter ask why people have NOT chosen AOO. I know that could get contentious, of course. But why, for example, is AOO almost totally unrepresented in ODF Authors, when much of its work applies as much to AOO as any project? -- Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time) Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice" http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 02/09/2016 19:06, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >> What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related projects like LibreOffice cannot? > That is not an important question: In terms of marketing that is the only question that is relevant. It doesn't matter if you are trying to get more developers, or trying to get more corporations to use AOo, or trying to get more individual users to use AOo. > The question is indeed what we want OpenOffice to be. That would be the second question. Part of the answer to that question, is a derivative of the first question. > They may not necessarily want a green thing with different GUI and different behaviour. AOo can do roughly a dozen things, that LibO can not do. I'd be surprised if as many as 0.01% of both the developer base, and the user base of either program, could list those things. The odds are that Joe Random User won't even notice the absence of those 12 things. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Patricia Shanahan wrote: Any views on whether the archive should be private or public? We have no options here. Archives have to be public for this kind of lists (ASF archives are never really private, but this is another matter). Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Jim Jagielski wrote: The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one has such a beast laying around. When did you check? And what does "extremely old" mean? OpenOffice 4.1.2 was built with a version of XCode released 6 months earlier. I trust you've looked at our reference environments, right? If you need the link again just look at archives from the last 24 hours, I've posted it into another conversation. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public? Alternative volunteer for moderator? On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: Patricia Shanahan wrote: If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and requests are usually honored within 48 hours. You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail address there, at least for the time being (next month or so). to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for an appeal for developers. I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Do we understand the reason for the old version of OSX etc.? On 9/2/2016 3:48 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one has such a beast laying around. I have tried creating a VMware Fusion guest but it is difficult finding all the bits and pieces. There was some discussion on (re)purchasing a MacMini to serve as our OSX build machine. I can host it here in my house or we can plop it in our NOC. Hell, I may just purchase one myself. On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? On your own hardware: Repeat: Build a Mac OS X Binary; Fix the error messages you get; Write notes about what you did; Test the program functionality; Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one has such a beast laying around. I have tried creating a VMware Fusion guest but it is difficult finding all the bits and pieces. There was some discussion on (re)purchasing a MacMini to serve as our OSX build machine. I can host it here in my house or we can plop it in our NOC. Hell, I may just purchase one myself. > On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: > > On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > >> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? > > On your own hardware: > > Repeat: > Build a Mac OS X Binary; > Fix the error messages you get; > Write notes about what you did; > Test the program functionality; > Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; > > Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. > >> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in > response to the "retirement" discussion? > > At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release > before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. > > jonathon > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Patricia Shanahan wrote: If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and requests are usually honored within 48 hours. You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail address there, at least for the time being (next month or so). to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for an appeal for developers. I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/2/2016 10:37 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: On 9/2/2016 10:18 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: -Original Message- From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? ... I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@ [orcmid] We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out what to do with the offers. I've already volunteered to mentor and organize volunteers. How that works would depend on how many volunteers we get. If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? I want to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for an appeal for developers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Message posted on the EN forum: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=84952 If you need the message to be changed, don't hesitate, I can edit it. Hagar Le 02/09/2016 à 18:25, Patricia Shanahan a écrit : On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this project to continue moving forward. What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive direction? How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? etc... The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining developers. I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers." I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate that message. I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@ The message should go out every way it can: us...@openoffice.apache.org OpenOffice forums Press release memb...@apache.org d...@community.apache.org We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to state the risk of shut down. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Am 02.09.2016 um 16:59 schrieb Phillip Rhodes: > > What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could > be > working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive > direction? > As I wrote before: If we want to recruit new developer, we need a contact person and mentors. And we need the next release - so we need a release manager. Kind regards Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Marcus wrote: > > >> The bad things are: > - we need a release manager for a 4.2.0 or 4.1.3 version. > - we need hardware to get builds for Wndows, Linux and Mac. > - we need a possibility to build on Mac (buildbot or an individual > machine) > - we need people who can help with build problems on Windows and Mac > - and we need new devs in general > > OK, something I've never been clear on. Does the ASF Infrastructure team provide machines to build on, or is it entirely up to us to get builds built "however"? If the former, is there something we need from them today that we don't have? If the latter, could this project acquire hardware and have it put in a colo center or something, so we have access to what we need? Or can we rent time in a cloud environment somewhere? Sorry for all the uninformed questions, I've just been really out of the loop for a while. :-( > And the best thing is: > We have already enough food for a new release (many bugfixes, improved > functions, new translations). We just need to bring this onto the road. > > Radical! Well that's something to be cheerful about anyway. > This fight you cannot win with words. You can convince the people only > with doings. And in our standoff we need hard doings. With a big porton of > sarcasm. I'm sorry for that. But it's hard to come home from work, find my > inbox exploded and read about a good friend who has left the project due to > this b**hit which is going on at the moment. ;-( > > > Understood. No need to apologize for anything. Phil >
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Am 09/02/2016 04:59 PM, schrieb Phillip Rhodes: OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this project to continue moving forward. hm, I can only hope that it the *very* most of us. ;-) What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive direction? *In my eyes* it's pretty simple: We need a new release to proof that we can survice as an Apache TLP. The bad things are: - we need a release manager for a 4.2.0 or 4.1.3 version. - we need hardware to get builds for Wndows, Linux and Mac. - we need a possibility to build on Mac (buildbot or an individual machine) - we need people who can help with build problems on Windows and Mac - and we need new devs in general But there are already good things: - we have a few devs who can build on Linux - we have a few devs who can work on Linux problems - we have our buildbots in a more stable way compared with the past months (not at 100% but we are working on it) And the best thing is: We have already enough food for a new release (many bugfixes, improved functions, new translations). We just need to bring this onto the road. How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? etc... You should answer to this FUD when: - you want to fight against all bad things that where written. - you want to give everyone an answer. - you have too much time and don't know what to do. - you want to go to hospital due to a mental disorder which will come quicker than you want. You should *not* answer them when you want to get a different impression into the people's head. This fight you cannot win with words. You can convince the people only with doings. And in our standoff we need hard doings. With a big porton of sarcasm. I'm sorry for that. But it's hard to come home from work, find my inbox exploded and read about a good friend who has left the project due to this b**hit which is going on at the moment. ;-( Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Then you should give the project every encouragement to get the build process properly prepared. Our outgoing PMC chair should consider the same. Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > > > >> On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni wrote: >> >> At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project. > > My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and > effectively to security reports. > > Marvin Humphrey > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Am 09/02/2016 06:25 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan: On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this project to continue moving forward. What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive direction? How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? etc... The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining developers. I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers." I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate that message. I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@ The message should go out every way it can: us...@openoffice.apache.org OpenOffice forums Press release memb...@apache.org d...@community.apache.org We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to state the risk of shut down. if you have some more ideas let me know. This is a point we can get quite quickly published. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni wrote: > At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project. My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and effectively to security reports. Marvin Humphrey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/2/2016 11:30 AM, Bruce Byfield wrote: On September 2, 2016 10:59:55 AM Phillip Rhodes wrote: OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this project to continue moving forward. What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive direction? How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? etc... If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related projects like LibreOffice cannot? From my individual point of view, the biggest single contribution is actually competition. Monopolies tend to go bad in various ways. I joined AOO because I want to have a choice of major free office software suites. Apache's licensing model opens up additional competition space, because of the potential for use of our source code in other products, including but not limited to LibreOffice. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Bruce Byfield wrote: On September 2, 2016 10:59:55 AM Phillip Rhodes wrote: OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this project to continue moving forward. What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive direction? How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? etc... If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related projects like LibreOffice cannot? That is not an important question: OpenOffice was never meant to be a replacement to LibreOffice, or Calligra for that purpose. This was never a war between opensource suites. The question is indeed what we want OpenOffice to be. Should it be a faithful, but free-er, replacement to OpenOffice.org (as it appears to be right now) or do we want to evolve in a completely different direction? And then if we are being asked to simply move faster to no-where we can resist such invitation. Yes, I know the answer may sound vague to an outsider but I am assuming some people are really looking for OpenOffice.org when they download Apache OpenOffice. They may not necessarily want a green thing with different GUI and different behavior. Pedro. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Hi - Awesome. These are the kinds of questions that should energize the project. Base is a problem, but there are many Java bridges that can be plugged if we open up the configuration. Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone On Sep 2, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you >> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related >> projects like LibreOffice cannot? > > That's a good question. The one obvious thing, which matters to some > people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2". > > From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that > somebody else couldn't do - in principle. However, different projects can > evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the > developers. What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with > some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world, > which largely revolves around the ASF anyway. This obviously applies > mainly to Calc. But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to > share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc. I'd > also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd > party languages like R. Integration with Arrow is something that could be > interesting. And something that was talked about a while back, but I > think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social" > integration into AOO. I'd still like to see us do some things there. > > Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like > LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase > (which they're welcome to do). But maybe they'll decide their interests > are elsewhere and choose not to. Who knows? > > > Phil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 02/09/2016 17:21, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >> a Mac Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. > Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, Yes. >and doing so in a reasonable period of time? That depends upon what the user considers "reasonable". For full fledged development, I think it is inadequate, simply because of the time it will take to build AOo. As a test bed machine, it is adequate. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you > need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related > projects like LibreOffice cannot? > That's a good question. The one obvious thing, which matters to some people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2". >From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that somebody else couldn't do - in principle. However, different projects can evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the developers. What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world, which largely revolves around the ASF anyway. This obviously applies mainly to Calc. But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc. I'd also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd party languages like R. Integration with Arrow is something that could be interesting. And something that was talked about a while back, but I think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social" integration into AOO. I'd still like to see us do some things there. Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase (which they're welcome to do). But maybe they'll decide their interests are elsewhere and choose not to. Who knows? Phil
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On September 2, 2016 10:59:55 AM Phillip Rhodes wrote: >OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about >what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us >want this project to >continue moving forward. > >What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we >could be >working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a >positive direction? > >How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is >already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? > etc... If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related projects like LibreOffice cannot? (And, incidentally, although I'm a journalist, I am notabout to announc that AOO is shutting down. A couple of years ago, the project looked shaky, yet it managed to survive. The thread is fascinating, but obviously speculative at this point). -- Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time) Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice" http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/2/16 12:25 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what >> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this >> project to >> continue moving forward. >> >> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could >> be >> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive >> direction? >> >> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is >> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? >> etc... > > The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that > AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining > developers. > > I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is > at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially > C++ programmers." IMO yes, this is a good tactic. Since the news is getting public, best to embrace it. > I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate > that message. > > I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just > for > signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, > especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to > recruitment@ > > The message should go out every way it can: > > us...@openoffice.apache.org > OpenOffice forums > Press release > memb...@apache.org > d...@community.apache.org As stated on the other thread, SourceForge could run messaging as well, to help get the word out. Best for the PMC to craft the content of course, but SF could run it on many places if desired. E.g. newsletter, announcement banner on developer pages, social media, etc. Lots of options. > > We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to > state the risk of shut down. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > -- Dave Brondsema : d...@brondsema.net http://www.brondsema.net : personal http://www.splike.com : programming <>< - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Doing some reading, it looks like it may indeed be possible to run OS X on VirtualBox at least under Windows (not sure about Linux). If so, I might be willing to spend some money on an EC2 instance to do Mac builds, especially if it doesn't need to be up 24x7. Question: Does the ASF have any Mac hardware for doing Mac builds? Or is everything Mac related left to being done on individual developer machines? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > I understand your problem. Until now, I have only owned one Apple desktop, > the Apple II I bought in 1980. I took a dislike to Macs the first time I > tried one. > > > On 9/2/2016 10:32 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > >> No doubt. My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and >> everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden >> ecosystem. I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to >> help >> with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to >> spend. >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM >> >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini > with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is > less > than 10 months of macincloud. > > Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a reasonable period of time? >>> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I >>> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with >>> more >>> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk. >>> >>> >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> >>> >>> >> > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/2/2016 10:18 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: -Original Message- From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this project to continue moving forward. What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive direction? How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? etc... The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining developers. [orcmid] I think that is a great approach, Patricia. I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers." I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate that message. I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@ [orcmid] We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out what to do with the offers. I've already volunteered to mentor and organize volunteers. How that works would depend on how many volunteers we get. Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to contribute. Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately. I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will dig into that too. - Dennis The message should go out every way it can: us...@openoffice.apache.org OpenOffice forums Press release memb...@apache.org d...@community.apache.org We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to state the risk of shut down. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
I understand your problem. Until now, I have only owned one Apple desktop, the Apple II I bought in 1980. I took a dislike to Macs the first time I tried one. On 9/2/2016 10:32 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: No doubt. My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden ecosystem. I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to help with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to spend. Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less than 10 months of macincloud. Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a reasonable period of time? I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
No doubt. My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden ecosystem. I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to help with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to spend. Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > > > On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: >> >> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini >>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is >>> less >>> than 10 months of macincloud. >>> >> >> >> >> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in >> a >> reasonable period of time? >> > > I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I > were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more > cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less than 10 months of macincloud. Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a reasonable period of time? I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini > with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less > than 10 months of macincloud. Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a reasonable period of time? Phil
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less than 10 months of macincloud. On 9/2/2016 10:11 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on another OS do they? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost more than a Mac Mini over a few months. For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building. The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the more powerful Macs and manage it directly. On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal hardware is PC based, running Linux. I wonder if it would work to use something like this: http://www.macincloud.com/ Anybody have any experience with something like that? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? On your own hardware: Repeat: Build a Mac OS X Binary; Fix the error messages you get; Write notes about what you did; Test the program functionality; Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> -Original Message- > From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > > On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > > OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about > what > > needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want > this > > project to > > continue moving forward. > > > > What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we > could > > be > > working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a > positive > > direction? > > > > How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is > > already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? > > etc... > > The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk > that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its > remaining developers. [orcmid] I think that is a great approach, Patricia. > > I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: > "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer > developers, especially C++ programmers." > > I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or > complicate that message. > > I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, > just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to > start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send > an e-mail to recruitment@ [orcmid] We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out what to do with the offers. Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to contribute. Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately. I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will dig into that too. - Dennis > > The message should go out every way it can: > > us...@openoffice.apache.org > OpenOffice forums > Press release > memb...@apache.org > d...@community.apache.org > > We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for > developers to state the risk of shut down. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/2/2016 10:09 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost more than a Mac Mini over a few months. For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building. I'm not being quite fair there. I keep multiple versions of AOO around, and can afford disk space. We might be able to make do with the basic 50 GB of disk space if managed the space more carefully. The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the more powerful Macs and manage it directly. On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal hardware is PC based, running Linux. I wonder if it would work to use something like this: http://www.macincloud.com/ Anybody have any experience with something like that? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? On your own hardware: Repeat: Build a Mac OS X Binary; Fix the error messages you get; Write notes about what you did; Test the program functionality; Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on another OS do they? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote: > I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I > found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of > building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body > of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost > more than a Mac Mini over a few months. > > For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan > ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum > upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building. > > The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac > development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the > more powerful Macs and manage it directly. > > > > > On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > >> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal >> hardware >> is PC based, running Linux. >> >> I wonder if it would work to use something like this: >> >> http://www.macincloud.com/ >> >> Anybody have any experience with something like that? >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM >> >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: >> >> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: >>> >>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? >>> >>> On your own hardware: >>> >>> Repeat: >>>Build a Mac OS X Binary; >>>Fix the error messages you get; >>>Write notes about what you did; >>>Test the program functionality; >>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; >>> >>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. >>> >>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in >>> response to the "retirement" discussion? >>> >>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release >>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. >>> >>> jonathon >>> >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> >>> >>> >> > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost more than a Mac Mini over a few months. For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building. The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the more powerful Macs and manage it directly. On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal hardware is PC based, running Linux. I wonder if it would work to use something like this: http://www.macincloud.com/ Anybody have any experience with something like that? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? On your own hardware: Repeat: Build a Mac OS X Binary; Fix the error messages you get; Write notes about what you did; Test the program functionality; Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal hardware is PC based, running Linux. I wonder if it would work to use something like this: http://www.macincloud.com/ Anybody have any experience with something like that? Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki wrote: > On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > > > What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? > > On your own hardware: > > Repeat: >Build a Mac OS X Binary; >Fix the error messages you get; >Write notes about what you did; >Test the program functionality; > Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; > > Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. > > > How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in > response to the "retirement" discussion? > > At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release > before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. > > jonathon > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Hello; At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project. They probably want to see more activity and may recur to artificial numbers like number of commits, number of active developers, or releases. I very much doubt actions from the Board will solve anything, it's the PMC and the developers that do the effective changes in a project. If we make a release in the following weeks we may take the Board from our backs and get time to work on the things that matter. I have to say that thanks to the brave work of Damjan the project is a LOT more sustainable than some months ago. We have a testsuite back and the build environment has improved substantially. Also Don has been doing some important cleanups and updates. Still the problems are: - Developers: the issue is not actually the number of them but the know-how that AOO requires. The majority of the experienced developers are either still at IBM but with a lot of unrelated work, or have gravitated slowly to LibreOffice (as in paid to do so). - A Win64 port: 80% of our users are Windows users. - The code is just ugly .. really, and that is true for LibreOffice as well. There are plans (rewrite a lot in Java, more use of APR), but we just have to be realistic and understand that big changes in the codebase are not going to happen soon. AOO 5.0 may take at least two years. Pedro. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Really? Substantial work is done on list to improve the build process for Windows and you don't think about mentioning that? Someone who has a Mac and time could help with that build! Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton > wrote: > > We all have these questions, Phil. What we are awaiting is someone to > provide an actionable answer. > > There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on the > What would ... thread). That's a waste of energy. What we need is energy > put into having an AOO that serves its community. > > Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for > volunteers on the download page. > > We need people to step up. The folks we have are already spinning more > plates than they have arms and legs. > > - Dennis > >> -Original Message- >> From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00 >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org >> Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? >> >> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about >> what >> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want >> this >> project to >> continue moving forward. >> >> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we >> could >> be >> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a >> positive >> direction? >> >> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is >> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? >> etc... >> >> >> Phil >> ~~~ >> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote: OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this project to continue moving forward. What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive direction? How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? etc... The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining developers. I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers." I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate that message. I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@ The message should go out every way it can: us...@openoffice.apache.org OpenOffice forums Press release memb...@apache.org d...@community.apache.org We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to state the risk of shut down. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote: > What is the most important thing/things we could be working on? On your own hardware: Repeat: Build a Mac OS X Binary; Fix the error messages you get; Write notes about what you did; Test the program functionality; Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected; Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN. > How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Right, which is why one of the questions I asked was: "What can I do right now to help"? I have been negligent in terms of contributing to AOO in the past, despite my intentions, but I'm hoping I can change that and start pitching in more. But I don't know where the best place to direct my attention would be. Phil This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > We all have these questions, Phil. What we are awaiting is someone to > provide an actionable answer. > > There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on > the What would ... thread). That's a waste of energy. What we need is > energy put into having an AOO that serves its community. > > Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for > volunteers on the download page. > > We need people to step up. The folks we have are already spinning more > plates than they have arms and legs. > > - Dennis > > > -Original Message- > > From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00 > > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > > Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > > > > OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about > > what > > needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want > > this > > project to > > continue moving forward. > > > > What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we > > could > > be > > working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a > > positive > > direction? > > > > How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is > > already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? > > etc... > > > > > > Phil > > ~~~ > > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
We all have these questions, Phil. What we are awaiting is someone to provide an actionable answer. There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on the What would ... thread). That's a waste of energy. What we need is energy put into having an AOO that serves its community. Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for volunteers on the download page. We need people to step up. The folks we have are already spinning more plates than they have arms and legs. - Dennis > -Original Message- > From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00 > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org > Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve? > > OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about > what > needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want > this > project to > continue moving forward. > > What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we > could > be > working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a > positive > direction? > > How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is > already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion? > etc... > > > Phil > ~~~ > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org