RE: Suitable CDN for IEC61000-4-6 ethernet 10/100

2002-04-18 Thread David_Sterner
Most people use the EM clamp. We test to EN50130-4 alarm system limits: 10V, pulsed and AM modulated. The test is trivial because of the inherent immunity of Ethernet; be sure you understand the EUT and AE port partitioning algorithms. Constructing a CDN that compliant to ANSI/IEEE 802.3/802.3

Agency mark dims

2002-04-18 Thread Brian O'Connell
Good People I have not been able to find any requirements on the TUV or UL websites for minimum size requirements of their respective logos (when used as a safety mark on the recognized/certified product). Could someone provide a pointer to (agency-published) guidance for logo dims? Thanks Much

IATA 902 Magnetic Testing

2002-04-18 Thread Pittman, Bud
Although this is not an EMC standard it is related. My lab has been asked to test our products to the magnetic standards of IATA Packing Instruction 902. This test determines the ability of a device to change a compass reading. I have the regulations and know how to do the test, but do not do it

Re: Input voltage range - EN61000-4, 5 and 6

2002-04-18 Thread brent . dewitt
In the very specific case of Medical devices, the newest edition of IEC 60601-1-2 specifies -5 testing at the extreme ends the range of continuously adaptive supply and in each range of a switched range supply. Regards, Brent DeWitt gunter_j_ma...@embraco.com.br@majordomo.ieee.org on 04/1

Obtaining Lab Accreditation

2002-04-18 Thread Don_MacArthur
Hello Group, I have been tasked with obtaining A2LA accreditation for my internal (first party) lab. We have about ten technicians, perform all standard suite of IEC EMC tests along with vibration, shock, bump and environmental (cold, dry heat, damp heat) testing. I have attended ISO 17025 tr

RE: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread richwoods
I am not advocating placing an inductor in series with the cap. Circulating loop currents in the power and ground traces will create emissions, but those currents can be reduced by use of bypass capacitors or an L-type filter (capacitor and inductor) in the 5V trace. At least, according to accepte

Magnetic Testing

2002-04-18 Thread Pittman, Bud
Although this is not an EMC standard it is related. My lab has been asked to test our products to the magnetic standards of IATA Packing Instruction 902. This test determines the ability of a device to change a compass reading. I have the regulations and know how to do the test, but do not do it

Suitable CDN for IEC61000-4-6 ethernet 10/100

2002-04-18 Thread Carpentier Kristiaan
Hello group, IEC 61000-4-6 mentions a decision chart on the use of injection method: 1rst question of this chart: are suitable CDN's available? if YES: use CDN as per 6.2.2 if NO: use other means (e.g. EM Clamp) My question: 1. Are CDN's used for CE in EN55022 "suitable" CDN's for ethernet 10/10

Input voltage range - EN61000-4, 5 and 6

2002-04-18 Thread Gunter_J_Maass
List I suppose that EN61000-4-4, 4-5 and 4-6 do not mention the input voltage to be applied to the EUT during the tests. For a product with a voltage range, like 198 up to 264Vac (230Vac nominal), what should be the right value ? Or do I need to look for the worst voltage case ? Thank you for y

Re: SV: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread Cortland Richmond
Amund, I have encountered similar problems with similarly designed boards. In one interesting case, I was able to get 30 dB reduction in radiated EMI by adding a series resistor to a (fairly short) low-frequency clock line. Due to use of modern devices, its rise and fall times were less than a n

RE: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread Robert Wilson
Not sure this would be a cure in this instance. This is effectively the same as adding a lossy inductor in series with the cap, which would tend to negate any benefits of using a cap with lower self inductance. Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: richwo...@tyc

Re: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread Robert Macy
Years ago in ultrasonic echocardiography instrumentation (the ultrasonics analog is a wide band receiver listening in the 1-10MHz region down to less than 10uV, so the digital had better be quiet!) which used a bit slice architecture system containing Schottky logic with a clock of 20MHz for contr

RE: Question concerning antenna carousels, their usefulness, credibility ofdata collected, and......

2002-04-18 Thread Brench, Colin
Hi, I have not used a carousel and would not do so without a lot of data to show that it dose not affect antenna behavior. It has been shown that the terminal impedance of an antenna changes as it is moved up from 1m above the ground plane. Similarly, at 3m, it is possible for the presence o

Re: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread Wan Juang Foo
Amund, That is why I wrote that the leads should hug close to the microprocessor package. Sort of like a piggy back, that way the lead loop inductance is at the minimum, since I guess correctly that the Vcc and Gnd pins are miles apart. I suppose it is not a mass production model, so it is acce

Re: Question concerning antenna carousels, their usefulness, credibility of data collected, and......

2002-04-18 Thread Scott . Mee
Jeffrey, You are correct. The standards do not address the usage of multiple antennas. We have not participated in any Round Robin testing multiple antennas in the test chamber, so I am not exactly sure what the possible effects would be in terms of getting accurate and/or repeatable results. >

RE: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread Chris Maxwell
Hmmm. I've read a couple of other replies on this...good suggestions. I have also read your re-replies which suggest that you have a two layer "planeless" board. I understand that you are trying to get an unwanted 156Mhz off of the 5V line. A couple of thoughts come to mind. First 156Mhz

RE: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread richwoods
Consider adding a ferrite bead in the 5V trace to the microprocessor. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:50 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subj

SV: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread amund
Interesting articles on your web-site, Tim. >BTW, how about just using a 100 pF capacitor with the 'leads' hugging close >to the microprocessor package There's a "mile" from the Vcc pin to ground, that's another problem. No ground plane, only ground traces which is routed around on the PCB. This

Re: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread Wan Juang Foo
Amund, In the absence of any layout information that can evaluate the loop inductances, I suggest you read what I wrote about placing two capacitor in parallel which can be found on Chapter 3 of my thesis. A link is available in: http://www.geocities.com/timfoo6143/index.html BTW, how about ju

Northeast Product Safety Society Meeting on Wednesday, April 24

2002-04-18 Thread Matt Campanella
There will be a Northeast Product Safety Society meeting on Wednesday, April 24, at EMC Corporation's Customer Briefing Center in Hopkinton, MA. A social hour with light refreshments will begin at 7:00 PM and the technical meeting will start at 7:30 PM. James Norton, CEO of EMD Optima, will be p

SV: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread amund
Correct, the picture is complex. The PCB is 2-layer with signal, 5V-power and 0V-ref lines routed on both sides. There is no ground layer/plane. There must be a large number of RF current loops because the 0V-lines are routed up and down and around. Beside trying to achieve a good decoupling I ass

Re: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-18 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that Robert Wilson wrote (in <3FF57405336C9B4C976A1819F860A2560F696F@xng_tirsys.TIRSYS.COM>) about 'Decoupling - capacitor values', on Wed, 17 Apr 2002: >The main >reason is that the ESR of the larger cap begins to rise to unacceptable >levels as frequency rises (chiefly due t

RE: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-17 Thread Robert Wilson
Capacitors can continue to function quite well above their self resonance. You should not be worrying about choosing a cap based on self resonance per se. However, it is standard practice to parallel a 0,1 uF "bulk" bypass cap with a much smaller NP0 or C0G type (say 470 pF or 1 nF), especially

RE: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-17 Thread Bob Howland
In selecting that 820 pF capacitor, check the specifications. The self-resonance frequency is a function of the capacitor value and the physical size. Chip caps that are smaller physically will have a have a self-resonant frequency higher than the same value cap with larger physical dimensions.

Re: Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-17 Thread Cortland Richmond
Yes, it makes sense. But the goal here is preventing or reducing Vcc drop during the time the microprocessor is switching. You need not only low reactance, but *also* enough capacitance to supply the current needed _while it is switching_. You have not given enough information here to tell if 820p

Vacuum metalizer in SE Asia

2002-04-17 Thread Don Rhodes
Hello all, Does anyone know of a decent (by that I mean they work out of something better than a Quonset hut) vacuum metalizer of plastics in SE Asia, preferably in Malaysia? There are numerous VM finishers we know of in the area but none of them apply the coating as a EMC solution, but for cosmeti

Decoupling - capacitor values

2002-04-17 Thread amund
A microprocessor is driven by a 12MHz clock. The 5V Vcc-pin is decoupled by a 100nF capacitor with a few mm leads. We can observe an unwanted 156MHz signal on the 5V line, maybe 13th harmonic of 12MHz. We will try to suppress/decouple this 156MHz signal. Suggestion: Insert a SMD ceramic capacitor

RE: HP-85650A Calibration

2002-04-17 Thread Gary McInturff
I've used Acucal in the past Ed. The have several portable labs that travel around the area at specific times. I think they hit up here in the Northwest around July. Not a clue when they hit the San Diego area. Here is their web address. www.acucal.com. They calibrate the equipment at m

Re: HP-85650A Calibration

2002-04-17 Thread Lfresearch
Ed, Use an accredited cal lab. of course, it should be A2LA ;-) Seriously, they have a list of suitable labs on their website www.a2la.org Derek Walton

HP-85650A Calibration

2002-04-17 Thread Price, Ed
Hi Listmembers! I need to get a traceable calibration on my HP-85650A Quasi-Peak Adapter. The HP service manual calls for use of a Watkins-Johnson Model S1 Pulse Modulator, which I can't seem to find. Two questions; for those who do their own in-house calibration, what do you use? Or, what inde

RE: Combining of Compliance Engineering and Environmental Health and Safety

2002-04-17 Thread richwoods
Martin, my 30+ years experience in Product Safety leads me to believe that the advantages of a common group/management would outweigh the disadvantages. First, a H&S department deals with many more issues than you listed including all worker safety regulations, standards and practices. On top of t

April, 2002 EMC/Telco/Product Safety Update Now Available

2002-04-17 Thread Glen Dash
The Curtis-Straus Update for April, 2002 is now available at: http://www.conformity-update.com The headlines are: Aircraft Interference Sparks FCC Crackdown. FCC Appointment Becomes A Political Football. ARRL To Battle Looser RFID Requirements. Employers Sued Over Alleged Semi Related Birth

Re: IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question ( & another)

2002-04-16 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that John Allen wrote (in <002d01c1e581$5eee4520$0200a8c0@johnallen>) about 'IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question ( & another)', on Tue, 16 Apr 2002: >Maybe we should wait a day or two to see if anyone else has comments or >other confirmations, and then I

Re: ETSI foot print or NEBS 2000 document

2002-04-16 Thread Paolo Gemma
Sorry for this late answer At 14:03 11/04/2002 -0700, Gary McInturff wrote: Can anybody tell me about the 600 mm ETSI footprint - has that been adopted, is going to be adopted? How adamant is the 300 mm depth, if neither of the first two questions are no? Both are adopted Wh

Combining of Compliance Engineering and Environmental Health and Safety

2002-04-16 Thread MartinJP
Greetings, Our company is considering merging Compliance Engineering with Environmental Health and Safety. Compliance engineering is responsible for product safety and EMC as well as handling product liability issues. Environmental Health and Safety (EHS) develops and implements chemical regul

Re: IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question ( & another)

2002-04-16 Thread John Allen
Andy At least my eyes do not appear to have been deceiving me! See also John Wood's response (thanks JW) sugguesting that I (we?) contact IEC TC66 Chairman: Mr. Cecil CHAPMAN Grant Instruments (Cambridge) Ltd. Mill Barn GB - BASSINGBOURN, CAMBRIDGESHIRE SG8 5PP UNITED KINGDOM Tel: +44 1763 247

RE: Calibration Tracking Software

2002-04-16 Thread Brian O'Connell
Gentlemen Assuming a Win-Tel platform, I have found that both Excel and/or Access to be adequate for large databases that will not have more than (2) users. The caveat is that all embedded VBA source be mapped in a separate (formal) document, and that the Network Admin carefully controls privileg

Question concerning antenna carousels, their usefulness, credibility of data collected, and......

2002-04-16 Thread Greilich, Jeff
Et Al: I am soliciting opinions from anyone who has attempted using an antenna carousel that aids in doing automated EMI measurements under CISPR 25. The CISPR 25 specification provides requirements in terms of spacings of the antenna elements from the walls of the room, size of the room, use of

Fwd: 100kV ESD Immunity Testing

2002-04-16 Thread Lfresearch
Someone recently asked for 100 kV ESD. SInce I work for Schaffner I thought I'd ask the factory.. Well, hope this helps whoever.. Derek Walton --- Begin Message --- I have spoken to John Hardwick at Culham Labs, he says that they can generate 100kV but he would need much more info before he can o

Re: Who decides to sign a D of C

2002-04-16 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that Andrew Wood wrote (in ) about 'Who decides to sign a D of C', on Fri, 12 Apr 2002: I declined to respond to this article, but as a result of an e-mail exchange with Andrew, I will now do so. >The advice about personal liability was given to me by a professional >consul

Speaker connected to a PC - FCC rules

2002-04-16 Thread Pierre SELVA (eLABs)
Dear people, I need to know if the FCC rules (part 15) applied to the following product : Speaker peripheral connected to a personal computer. This product has its own power supply. It's connected to the PC via the speaker output. Reading the Bulletin 62, pages 10 and 12, I'm not sure this devic

RE: IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question ( & another)

2002-04-16 Thread Andrew Wood
> -Original Message- > From: John Allen [SMTP:ja014d7...@blueyonder.co.uk] > Sent: 15 April 2002 20:44 > To: EMC-PSTC > Subject: Re: IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question > ( & another) > > Hi Folks > > My turn to ask some questions as a newcomer to this v

100kV ESD Immunity Testing

2002-04-16 Thread Russell
Can anybody recommend equipment available for hire in the UK, or a UK test laboratory that facilitates *low energy* (not lightning simulators) ESD air discharge immunity testing to 100kV? Thanks in anticipation. Russell. --- This message is from the IE

question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread shbeard
Is there a standard method for measuring AC bonding impedances for electrical bonding? Thanks in advance, Susan Beard --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http:

Re: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-16 Thread Wan Juang Foo
Susan, I take it to mean that you mearly wanted a 'low impedance' bond which may (or 'may not' as the case will decide) include a electrical bond from fasteners like a nut and bolt combo that force two metal surface to contact under preassure. The question that arrise from our understanding of t

RE: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread Sam Davis
RE: question on measuring bonding impedanceMike, A weld occurs when there is melting of metal. The metal will only melt if it gets enough heat. It will only get enough heat if there is enough of a resistance there (P=IR), or an arc (where the arc-welder gets its name), either of which would mean

Re: IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question ( & another)

2002-04-16 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that John Allen wrote (in <006a01c1e4b5$f4967880$0200a8c0@johnallen>) about 'IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question ( & another)', on Mon, 15 Apr 2002: >My turn to ask some questions as a newcomer to this version of the > standard: You may have found

Re: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that Michael Taylor wrote (in ) about 'question on measuring bonding impedance', on Mon, 15 Apr 2002: > for domestic product safety EN-61010 Sect 6.5.1 requires 25Amps (DC or >ACrms) or 2x the fuse rating.  I have never liked this method of testing. Well, EN61010 is

Re: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that Robert Wilson wrote (in <3FF57405336C9B4C976A1819F860A2560F6966@xng_tirsys.TIRSYS.COM>) about 'question on measuring bonding impedance', on Mon, 15 Apr 2002: >How about the usual method of determining the value of very low >resistances and impedances? Pass a known (relati

RE: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread Chris Maxwell
Susan, I'm not sure what "AC" means in your message below. I'm assuming that you mean in the radio frequency range, where low bonding impedance across joints means good shielding effectiveness. There is an SAE standard for measuring the "transfer impedance" across EMI s

Re: IEC/EN 61010-1:2001 - Dielectric Strength Testing Question ( & another)

2002-04-15 Thread John Allen
Hi Folks My turn to ask some questions as a newcomer to this version of the standard: 1 Dielectric Strength Testing to Clause 6.8.4 "Voltage tests" & Table 9 "Test voltages for BASIC INSULATION". Can anyone confirm my suspicion that there may be a misprint in Column 1 "Clearance" of Table 9 ,

RE: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread Michael Taylor
I promised myself I was not going to drag out my soap box and jump into this but . . .! (this discussion is limited to only the issue of the measurement of bond impedance - not if the connection can stand xx amps) While MIL 5087 establishes some bonding requirements & methods, for domestic product

Re: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread Ken Javor
I wasn't going to respond to this one because I know of no standard, and I don't know what you mean by AC, power frequency or rf. But HP/Agilent makes/used to make a bond meter with a 1 kHz signal. The purpose was partly to offset the effects of galvanic potentials: an ac measurement cancles the

RE: Calibration Tracking Software

2002-04-15 Thread Andrew Carson
We use a package called GAGEtrack, produced by the CyberMetrics Corporation. www.visit.com Good if you have a large number of items to track and control. If you only have a limited number, Excel is a very good tool. Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249

RE: question on measuring bonding impedance

2002-04-15 Thread Robert Wilson
How about the usual method of determining the value of very low resistances and impedances? Pass a known (relatively high) AC current through the connection, measure the voltage drop and use Ohm's law to calculate the resistance (and this is, after all, an essentially resistive connection). Bob W

Re: Criteria for UL V0 plastic enclosure

2002-04-15 Thread Rich Nute
Hi Scott: > In the case of LPS, wouldn't the plastic enclosure still be considered > "decorative" > plastic "outside" a fire enclosure and required to meet HB flame class (per > UL > 60950, 4.7.3.3)? Yes. Virtually all plastic materials meet the HB flame class, hence my comment that

RE: Calibration Tracking Software

2002-04-15 Thread richwoods
Mike, we use Excel and include the following data: Model Description Serial number Manufacturer Last cal date Due cal date Calibration lab Cal cost Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: Mike Stone [mailto:mst...@lsr.com] Sent: Monday, April

Re: Criteria for UL V0 plastic enclosure

2002-04-15 Thread Scott Lemon
Hello Rich, In the case of LPS, wouldn't the plastic enclosure still be considered "decorative" plastic "outside" a fire enclosure and required to meet HB flame class (per UL 60950, 4.7.3.3)? Regards, Scott Rich Nute wrote: > The choice is yours. If your product is supplied by a > Limited Po

Calibration Tracking Software

2002-04-15 Thread Mike Stone
Good Morning, I have been looking for a reasonably priced (cheap) software program to track and produce status reports for our calibrated equipment. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you in advance. Regards, Michael Stone L. S. Compliance Inc. W66 N220 Commerce Court Cedarburg, WI 5

RE: Enquiry on compliance requirements

2002-04-15 Thread Andrew Carson
Only one I can help with is Puerto Rico. It is currently a Protectorate of the USA, debating if it shall become a full State or not. So I would treat it the same as any US state, applying all applicable Federal regulations and ensuring you meet there interpretations of the NEC with a suitable NRT

Re: Measuring Instruments Directive

2002-04-15 Thread CherryClough
Dear Nick There are a number of useful links on the draft MID on our website http://www.cherryclough.com";> www.cherryclough.com under "Useful links to EU directives" (or go directly to: http://www.cherryclough.com/usefullinks1/index.html";>http://www.cherryclough.com/usefullinks1/index.html). W

Re: Does San Diego Require NRTL Marking to Install ITE

2002-04-12 Thread Doug McKean
You have been able to get Early Use Letters from UL, but I think that policy has recently changed a little. Contact your test engineer. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc disc

Measuring Instruments Directive

2002-04-12 Thread Nick Martin
I have come across some information on the web specifically to do with electricity and gas meters that infers that a new directive called the Measuring Instruments Directive is about to come into force. I have searched the Europa website for information on this but can not find any. Does anyo

JWDS00028

2002-04-12 Thread Jasmine TAN
Hi, Does anyone aware of what this standard JWDS0028 is meant for ? Where is it originate from ? Thanks in advance! Jasmine --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site a

Does San Diego Require NRTL Marking to Install ITE

2002-04-12 Thread Matt Campanella
All, Is NRTL marking a mandatory requirement to install a CMTS router in a cable head end in San Diego? We have a 48 VDC powered CMTS router which needs to be installed in a cable operator’s head end in early May. Although the basic UL evaluation of the product has been completed without incide

Output short circuit testing

2002-04-12 Thread Chris Chileshe
Hi Group, In a previous life when I developed frequency converters, we used to perform short circuit tests to UL508C. I am developing automotive ESA's which may find use in non-automotive applications ( Mains - DC power source ). Is output short circuit testing covered by some generic standa

RE: Using ITE EMC Standards for Non-ITE Equipment

2002-04-11 Thread Gert Gremmen : ce-test, qualified testing
Hi Jim, As the function of the Emission standard is to protect the spectrum, it cannot be seen different then "protecting the spectrum of the environment the equipment is used in" (office). (seen the physical range any interfence can go: +/- 30 meters) Then seek appropriate standards, taking acc

95/54/EC - Automotive - notified bodies

2002-04-11 Thread amund
Hi all, The Automotive directive 95/54/EC becomes mandatory October 1 2002. Is there a web-site which lists the notified / certification bodies within EU for this directive? Thanks. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/ Norway --- This message is from the I

RE: Physical Protection of Flexible Power Cords

2002-04-11 Thread Robert Johnson
You're already on the edge of the code with this one. You describe the equipment as permanently installed. Under those circumstances you normally could not use flexible cords. You might use the condition "400.7 (6) Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange" to permit th

Product Safety & the IEEE 2002 Symposium on EMC

2002-04-10 Thread Jim Bacher
I am posting the following for Dan Modi ( dan.m...@alconlabs.com ). Please contact him direct. Do not forget to mark the 2002 IEEE EMC Symposium on your calander to attend and by all means do not miss the Product Safety Workshop (or the other TC-8 Sessions). Rich Nute is willing to provide co

RE: Product Safety "Bible"

2002-04-08 Thread richwoods
George, the standard fails to describe the allowed sizes of openings in the top and sides of a fire enclosure. As far as the standard is concerned, fire must only go down since only bottom openings are described. The side and top openings that are described are for electical enclosures and do not

RE: Product Safety "Bible"

2002-04-08 Thread amund
Dear Volker Gasse Is this a pure Electrical Safety book or does it also include EMC ? Best regards Amund -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne av Volker Gasse Sendt: 8. april 2002 09:52 Til: geor...@lexmark.com K

Shipping Ckt Packs into EU

2002-04-05 Thread Scott Lemon
Hello Group, I am considering a strategy for shipment of individual circuit packs into the EU. These circuit packs are part of an overall (rack mountable shelf) custom ITE system which will be evaluated to the appropriate requirements/directives (LVD and EMC) and will have a CE marking. I envis

Re: Adoption of IEC-60950 3rd Ed.

2002-04-04 Thread Ron Pickard
Hi Oscar, Please be advised that the IEC has replaced IEC60950 3rd Ed. with IEC60950-1:2001. Excerpted, the foreward of IEC60950-1 states "This first edition of IEC 60950-1 cancels and replaces the third edition of IEC 60950, issued in 1999, and constitutes a technical revision.". The countri

RE: EMC & SIX LAYER PCB

2002-04-04 Thread Robert Wilson
If this is what you feel in necessary at moderate frequencies (I believe the original discussion was related to 600 MHz), I'd hate to see what you might feel is required at high frequency. :) The idea of "chip in board" that you mention is not new. It was first tried in the Far East some years ag

Re: EMC & SIX LAYER PCB

2002-04-04 Thread Wan Juang Foo
Cortland Richmond <72146@compuserve.com> wrote: > Current flowing through a via or a capacitor creates a voltage drop >which drives the planes it connects, as a radiator. A good antenna >may be made out of planes connected by a via, with RF applied >between them. We need to avoid doing this

RE: Keyboards/Mice

2002-04-02 Thread Summers, Chet
Chris, what standards did the keyboard and mouse manufacturer(s) test to? Try contacting the manufacturer directly and requesting the full EMC test report, including the ESD test setup. Sometimes this is a real pain in the tail to get hold of for such low dollar equipment, but it sounds like you

RE: Danger and Power of Lightning

2002-04-02 Thread Robert Wilson
Clearly, we need to ensure that lighting carries the appropriate regulatory warnings! A couple of paragraphs of the usual rambling UL/CSA warnings and cautions should do the trick. :) Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lex

RE: Faying

2002-04-01 Thread Cortland Richmond
Well, maybe. I think you mean the word spelled "fey." Also from the Encarta World English Dictionary: fey 1. (omitted) 2. SUPERNATURAL - relating to or typical of magic or the supernatural 3. CLAIRVOYANT - supposedly able to see into the future 4. SCOTLAND - DOOMED TO DIE [Old English faege,

RE: Faying

2002-04-01 Thread Robert Wilson
Yeah, blame John! :) For what it's worth, in the 25 years I have been involved in the mechanical packaging design of electronic enclosures, I have never heard of the word "faying". One can't help but wonder if someone just misspelled "facing". Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Origina

Re: Measurement Uncertainty Software

2002-04-01 Thread Lfresearch
Bob, before you go round the houses on this, I suggest you talk to Trace at A2LA. He can tell you what a lab should really be doing IMHO, a spreadsheet is all you really need. tmcintu...@a2la.org Best regards, Derek Walton

RE: Faying

2002-04-01 Thread Brewster, Alan
Greeting fellow vocabularians, The root word, 'fay" is ancient Scottish, meaning to have the power of prediction. Those of you that are fay may have seen this coming. I wonder if anticipating grounding is similar to expecting volts. Regards, Alan Brewster Senior Systems Safety Engineer

Measurement Uncertainty Software

2002-04-01 Thread reheller
Does anyone know of any measurement uncertainty software that may be on the market to help in the determination of measurement uncertainty for the various EMC test methods? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 -

Re: Faying

2002-04-01 Thread Cortland Richmond
The Encarta World English Dictionary says: Fay to join pieces of wood together tightly, or fit tightly inside another piece of wood. Do note this is a hard-cover dictionary, NOT an online one. I have not (yet) looked online. Cortland --- This messag

Re: Faying

2002-04-01 Thread Robert Macy
Ed, Thank you. Especially the part blaming Woodgate. My grandfather's name was Fay (son of Irish immigrant) and I always wondered at the origin of that name. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121

Faying

2002-04-01 Thread Price, Ed
A couple of weeks ago, there was a thread discussing bonding techniques for ground studs. I suggested that MIL-B-5087 had some nice drawings showing typical accepted military practices. Of course, MIL-B-5087 has been superseded by MIL-STD-464, but you can still find electronic copies of MIL-B-5087

Australian Telecom Surge testing

2002-04-30 Thread John Cronin
  Hi group Can anyone tell me offhand whether the surge test requirement for Australia is to IEC 1000-4-5 which uses a network with a 1 uF source capacitor or is it similar to the FCC test which I believe uses a 20 uF capacitor. Best Regards John CroninJoin the world’s largest e-mail service with

RE: NEC Questions

2002-04-30 Thread Robert Johnson
1) Correct, this cannot be used in a multiwire branch circuit since it may eventually be removed without being bypassed. The concern is that an open neutral in a multiwire (e.g. 120/240 3w or 120/208 4w) circuit leaves loads connected in series phase to phase. The voltage across a product intended

Re: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field

2002-04-30 Thread Nick Rouse
I'm no medical Guru either but I know the sort of field levels involved. They range from about .5 to 3 teslas. This is not much higher than the fields in the gaps of electrical motors and generators (up to 1.8T in normal silicon iron and up to 2.1 T in cobalt iron used in aerospace machines) Th

RE: CE MARKING A SYSTEM

2002-04-30 Thread Alexandru Guidea
We are facing the same challenge. The way we address it is essentially the TCF route, including a Competent Body involvement. Our installation contains some equipment qualified for residential environment only, which wouldn't meet the industrial immunity test levels by itself. We add filters in th

Re: DWELL TIME FOR AVERAGE DETECTORS

2002-04-30 Thread Ken Javor
I would amplify on my original MOTO response and say that it is common practice to scan using peak detection, and use average detection only at frequencies where an outage condition occurs; that will drastically reduce test time. -- >From: "Gert Gremmen" >To: "Ken Javor" , "Gordon,Ian"

RE: DWELL TIME FOR AVERAGE DETECTORS

2002-04-30 Thread Gert Gremmen
At ce-test, we call this kind of answer EOE - Evidence by Experience, in addition to MOTO, the dwell time should extend any slow variations that EUT emission contains A fine and obvious example is the Microwave oven: emission varies substantially with the rotation degree of the food rotating p

Re: Power Factor regulations.

2002-04-30 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that Robert Wilson wrote (in <3FF57405336C9B4C976A1819F860A2560F698D@xng_tirsys.TIRSYS.COM>) about 'Power Factor regulations.', on Tue, 30 Apr 2002: >We will be starting the design of a relatively simple, off-line >switchmode power supply that will be used to power an LED Lum

Re: General Product Safety Directive

2002-04-30 Thread John Woodgate
I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in <846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A01F140FA@flbocexu05>) about 'General Product Safety Directive', on Tue, 30 Apr 2002: >Now, back to the original question. I found the following definition of >professional apparatus in EN 55103-2 (immunity

Power Factor regulations.

2002-04-30 Thread Robert Wilson
I have a general question regarding power factor limits relating to the design of off-line switchmode power supplies. We will be starting the design of a relatively simple, off-line switchmode power supply that will be used to power an LED Luminaire (for lighting up the outside of buildings). A p

NEC Questions

2002-04-30 Thread Richard Meyette
I have a couple of questions regrading the National Electrical Code: 1) Consider a power measuring device that is intended to be installed into a residential 120V branch circuit, protected by a single 15 A or 20 A circuit breaker. The device would be installed into a conduit outlet box on th

RE: General Product Safety Directive

2002-04-30 Thread richwoods
Well, this series sure took a left turn and accelerated hurriedly out of site of the original intent which was to determine what the term "consumer" means as used in the GPSD. The imaginary product example I put forth was intended solely to support the question, and I in no way advocated that such

RE: CE MARKING A SYSTEM

2002-04-30 Thread Gary McInturff
You have me all confused here. You claim the equipment should be able to state heavy industrial immunity but at the same time acknowledge that some of the components don't meet the surge requirements. Kind of like the government saying fiscal responsibility - an oxymoron. If the

RE: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field

2002-04-30 Thread Chris Maxwell
Hi Amund, I read your email (below). I'm no medical device expert; but I'm wondering if the magnetic strength limit was set so high due to MRI (Magnetic Resnonance Imaging) devices. My understanding is that MRI devices produce HUGE magnetic field levels. According to a recent newspaper story t

Re: Anti-static Insulating Tape ???

2002-04-30 Thread Patrick Lawler
How do the safety standards (for example, IEC 60950 and their clones) define 'insulating tape'? Are the insulating properties determined as applied in the end product by hipot and leakage current? On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:16:16 -0700 (PDT), Rich Nute wrote: >Thanks for sharing your findings on ins

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