Re: [PSES] FCC Requirements for mobile industrial robots

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Doug,
Been retired for a while now, but FCC Part 18 applies to ISM products (the I 
being Industrial). And being Industrial, Class A emissions would likely apply.

Enjoying the AZ sun. Hope this helps.

⁣Ron Pickard
Sent from my smartphone​

On Mar 7, 2022, 10:09 AM, at 10:09 AM, Doug Nix  wrote:
>Hi Ken,
>
>Nope. It’s an industrial robot, so outside the scope of IEC 61326. IEC
>60204-1 is the dominant standard in that sector, however, not relevant
>for US and Canadian markets.
>
>CISPR 11 and IEC 61000-6-2 and -6-4 are the EMC standards. The question
>is: How does this relate to FCC requirements?
>
>Doug Nix
>d...@ieee.org
>+1 (519) 729-5704
>
>> On 7-Mar-22, at 12:03, Ken Wyatt  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Doug, wouldn’t this fall under IEC 61326 as an industrial product?
>That standard specifies CISPR 11 and it would fall under Class A
>(industrial environments). As such, I suspect the FCC would consider
>ISM products as exempt from Part 15 (except for the non-interference
>clause).
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> ___
>>
>> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any
>questions related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm
>always happy to help!
>>
>> Kenneth Wyatt
>> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
>> 56 Aspen Dr.
>> Woodland Park, CO 80863
>>
>> Contact Me! <http://www.emc-seminars.com/page1/Contact.php>New
>Books! <https://www.amazon.com/Kenneth-Wyatt/e/B00SNQ1LJ2>
>>
>>
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>>
>>> On Mar 7, 2022, at 9:58 AM, Doug Nix <mailto:d...@ieee.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I am trying to get a handle on the FCC requirements for autonomous
>mobile industrial robot products. For an example of a similar product,
>see the 6 River Systems machines: https://6river.com
><https://6river.com/>.
>>>
>>> The WiFi/Bluetooth module used in the product is pre-qualified, so I
>think that aspect is covered. What I’m concerned about are the rest of
>the emissions from the onboard electronics/PC/motor drive, etc. Does
>all of this fall under Part 15, Class B? As far as international
>requirements are concerned, the devices fall into CISPR 11 / EN 55011
>Group 1, for use in a Class A environment.
>>>
>>> Doug Nix
>>> d...@ieee.org <mailto:d...@ieee.org>
>>> +1 (519) 729-5704
>>>
>>> -
>>> 
>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
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>>>
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><http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html>
>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
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><http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in
>well-used formats), large files, etc.
>>>
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>>
>
>
>-
>
>This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
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>
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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>
>Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
>well-used form

Re: [PSES] Friday question

[Ron Pickard]

Fortunately, I had the full support of upper management and use of pretest 
facilities in-house (a lot of which I built). I dealt with varied product types 
across multiple compliance disciplines, environments & countries. Some products 
were variants to some degree and others were new designs.

I still kind of miss it as it kept me very busy with long nights, but my head 
was truly full of mush at the end & I'm glad I'm out now.

Great friday question (made me reminisce).

⁣Ron Pickard
Sent from my smartphone​

On Jun 25, 2021, 10:05 PM, at 10:05 PM, Douglas E Powell  
wrote:
>Amusing indeed.
>
>I have a few private answers about companies who have succeeded, but I
>suspect that many new products that passed first time were mainly
>variants
>of exisiting product lines. My question was about new product
>introductions.
>
>I am know several design engineers who have learned by way of the
>school of
>hard knocks, and either they design for compliance or at the very least
>submit designs to someone like myself before calling in the safety
>agency.
>
>Doug
>
>On Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 6:07 PM Ron Pickard  wrote:
>
>> Amusing anecdotes so far, but no answers for Doug yet.
>>
>> Over the years in a time long ago (retired for a few years now) I
>gained
>> much success with first time submissions with experience
>(relationships
>> with labs & agencies were also important for this).
>>
>> The big continuing annoyance was with product variations found during
>> factory inspections due to part availability issues and manufacturer
>> ingenuity (loved working those variation notices).
>>
>> Enjoying retirement & best regards,
>>
>> Ron Pickard
>> *Sent from my smartphone*
>> On Jun 25, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Douglas E Powell 
>wrote:
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity,
>>>
>>> I would like to know (especially from those who have been in the
>business
>>> for a while) what is your "first pass success rate" for safety
>>> certifications on new product introductions? That is, to achieve a
>product
>>> safety certification from an accredited laboratory with no action
>items
>>> required coming out of the preliminary design review.  It's helpful
>if you
>>> can indicate how complex the projects are.
>>>
>>> In my 26 years as a compliance engineer, I've observed possibly
>three in
>>> total for products with a reasonably high complexity.
>>>
>>> Thanks! Doug
>>> --
>>>
>>> Douglas E Powell
>>> doug...@gmail.com
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
>>>
>>> -
>>> 
>>>
>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>emc-pstc
>>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
><
>>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>>>
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>>>
>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
>site
>>> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics
>(in
>>> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>>>
>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>
>-
>
>This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
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>e-mail to 
>
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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>
>Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
>well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
>Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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>
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>Mike Cantwell 
>
>For policy questions, send mail to:
>Jim Bacher:  
>David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Friday question

[Ron Pickard]

Amusing anecdotes so far, but no answers for Doug yet.

Over the years in a time long ago (retired for a few years now) I gained much 
success with first time submissions with experience (relationships with labs & 
agencies were also important for this).

The big continuing annoyance was with product variations found during factory 
inspections due to part availability issues and manufacturer ingenuity (loved 
working those variation notices).

Enjoying retirement & best regards,

⁣Ron Pickard
Sent from my smartphone​

On Jun 25, 2021, 10:59 AM, at 10:59 AM, Douglas E Powell  
wrote:
>Out of curiosity,
>
>I would like to know (especially from those who have been in the
>business
>for a while) what is your "first pass success rate" for safety
>certifications on new product introductions? That is, to achieve a
>product
>safety certification from an accredited laboratory with no action items
>required coming out of the preliminary design review.  It's helpful if
>you
>can indicate how complex the projects are.
>
>In my 26 years as a compliance engineer, I've observed possibly three
>in
>total for products with a reasonably high complexity.
>
>Thanks! Doug
>--
>
>Douglas E Powell
>doug...@gmail.com
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
>
>-
>
>This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
>e-mail to 
>
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
>Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
>well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
>Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>unsubscribe)
>List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
>For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>Scott Douglas 
>Mike Cantwell 
>
>For policy questions, send mail to:
>Jim Bacher:  
>David Heald: 

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[PSES] FW: Intel Job Opportunity - Internet of Things Product Regulatory Engineer

[Ron Pickard]

Hi to all as it’s been a while since I’ve posted. I’m now enjoying retirement 
after a brief and final regulatory stint.

 

Anyway, this regulatory job posting came my way (see below) and I suggested 
forwarding it to this group. Hopefully it will be of some interest for some of 
you.

 

Please contact Ulrich Schmidt directly if interested.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

  

 

My name is Ulrich and I’m a Staffing Consultant for Intel. I am sourcing for 
the position JR0030496 Internet of Things Product Regulatory Engineer. Please 
check the following link for further details: http://career.intel.com/b879C 

If this opportunity finds your interest, please apply directly or feel free to 
spread the word if you know someone who may be interested.

Thanks for your time!

Ulrich Schmidt
Recruiter at Intel Corporation
ulrich.schm...@intel.com <mailto:ulrich.schm...@intel.com> 

 

 

 

 

  
<http://www.linkedin.com/emimp/ip_WkdsNk9Ha3RhalI1YVdsMmFXVXRPSEk9OlpXMWhhV3hmYVc1dFlXbHNYMmx1YVhScFlXeGZjMmx1WjJ4bFh6QXg6.gif>
 


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Re: [PSES] Ferrite Cores on cables and possible reduction

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

A German acquaintance of mine calls them EMC vitamins.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard

-Original Message-
From: Bob LaFrance [mailto:b...@creare.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 7:09 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite Cores on cables and possible reduction

I met an engineer who called them prayer beads.  Put them on and pray they
work.


-Original Message-
From: CR [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 6:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite Cores on cables and possible reduction

On 3/3/2015 12:38 PM, Grasso, Charles wrote:
 It is generally reported (at least as far as I can remember) that a 
 ferrite bead clamped on a cable will provide - typically- only about 
 3db of improvement as a general rule. I am now in a position

Ohboy!  Open that can barrel of worms, will you? My experience, when
constrained to ferrites by penny-pinching and very unrealistic program
managers (who regretted it later) is that _of course_ it's not that simple.
On any long enough cable, one can achieve anywhere between NO attenuation
and quite a bit more than 3 dB; material permitting, sometimes significantly
more, depending on the ferrite characteristics and position along the cable,
where the ferrite is, in that case, amismatch on a transmission line. In my
opinion and (despite my unofficial motto, take Two ferrites and call me in
the morning) ferrites are the WORST Bandaid(tm).  And they break too
easily.

Cortland Richmond

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Re: [PSES] weird stuff in agency agreement form

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Brian, 
Those service agreements are legal and binding.  But with that said,  have your 
legal team review it and have them try to negotiate that out as an amended 
agreement. With weird unenforceable stuff like that,  it should be relatively 
painless to have it removed. 

Just my 2 cents. 

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my  Android phone

div Original message /divdivFrom: Brian Oconnell 
oconne...@tamuracorp.com /divdivDate:09/11/2014  1:48 PM  (GMT-07:00) 
/divdivTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG /divdivSubject: Re: [PSES] weird 
stuff in agency agreement form /divdiv
/divFUS audits - old and known stuff. Applicant being responsible for the 
agency's access to the people down the supply chain - that is new and weird and 
probably not enforceable. My employer cannot dictate terms for access to 
suppliers' facilities by a third party, and cannot force suppliers to provide 
free services to an agency that may not have any previously existing agreement 
. If we were Apple or Microsoft, we could probably force suppliers to provide 
samples and factory access on demand; but not for most of us common folk down 
on the farm.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 12:51 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] weird stuff in agency agreement form

I don't think this is all that peculiar in the US right now. When signing the 
agreement forms with UL you agree to unannounced audits and inspections and 
your factory, and other factories in which you assembly the equipment. It 
doesn't give them the authorization to inspect your suppliers - just all of 
your assembly locations, owned or contract manufactures

Gmac


-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 12:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] weird stuff in agency agreement form

In message 
2c6263c88b5c467f83265e27b6a02...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
, dated Thu, 11 Sep 2014, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com 
writes:


A new clause states ... has the right to conduct unannounced audits at 
the manufacture's premises as well as the premises of the manufacturers 
component supplier and has the right to take samples. It is the 
obligation of the holder of the certificate to ensure that an audit at 
the component supplier's premises can be conducted.

Unless all of my suppliers have previously signed this agreement, or if 
we can somehow get all of my bazillion suppliers to sign an agreement,

Even if you did, it might very well be repudiated by whoever buys one of 
your suppliers at some future date. Such an agreement is potentially 
ephemeral.

 it would seem that the test house is attempting to enforce a 
'transitive' legal property.

I agree; but the poor certificate holder has a hard choice - accept the 
obligation or have no certificate.

 Do not see how this can fly in most North American jurisdictions. Is 
this something peculiar to EU law?

There is nothing more peculiar than EU law. The approach seems to be to 
write down what conditions they want to apply and, in the event of a 
dispute, leave it to the courts to decide whether the condition is 
enforceable. This may be the only way of coping with 27 different legal 
systems in the Member States.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Quid faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Website:  http

Re: [PSES] Changes to verified equipment

[Ron Pickard]

Gary, 
I do understand your quandry.  But, be especially wary of new/revised CPU's as 
they can have notoriously unpredictable EMC characteristics even when relayout 
is not needed. It would be prudent to formally retest RE as a measure of due 
diligence.

Please also note that in the EU EMC requirements additionally include immunity. 
please also note that the EU DofC declares conformance, which typically is 
based on accredited testing to harmonzed standards. This approach should avoid 
unfavorable enforcement scrutiny. 

Anyway,  the above IMHO. I hope this answered your question. 

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my  Android phone

div Original message /divdivFrom: Gary McInturff 
gary.mcintu...@esterline.com /divdivDate:08/13/2014  2:25 PM  (GMT-07:00) 
/divdivTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG /divdivSubject: [PSES] Changes to 
verified equipment /divdiv
/divI have a project coming up that with replace a processor which is going 
end of life in an unintentional radiator - an IR camera. In the US it is 
subject to verification - primarily meaning that I don't have to submit the 
data to the FCC unless asked, but I still need to test according to the 
regulations.

The new processor is form and fit identical, and is of the same technology 
family and the designers tell me it won't even need a board spin - just 
software updating. We are at odds over whether or not I need to actually 
perform OATS testing on the device. The budget for the tests has already been 
made available but I am second guessing my strict interpretation of the need 
for testing. I have been combing through CFR 47 for exact definition of what 
product changes mandate re-verification. I used to remember a section that 
discussed changes in technology - CMOS versus ECL etc. - along with a number of 
other factors, but I also remember that reasonable engineering judgment 
analysis was permissible, but I can't find any relevant paragraphs in section 2 
or 15 that might clarify. I haven't look at the EMC directive for the EU yet 
but would appreciate input from my friends in the EU. 

I think the design guys ask a reasonable question in that if we are changing 
layout, EMC suppression devices, clock rates, logic families, etc. MUST we 
re-test? I do have a pretty good pre-compliance chamber that I can do A/B 
comparisons of the product which would allow me to make some reasonable 
engineering judgments about the emissions comparisons between the old and new 
processors.( I use the chamber on a regular basis before I do formal testing 
and the results from my chamber and the OATS is close enough I have only been 
surprised at the OATS site once, and that was when I grabbed a bad cable as I 
was heading out the door - my bad.)

Here are the only references I could find in the US federal code - anybody else 
have more precise reference?

§2.902   Verification.
(a) Verification is a procedure where the manufacturer makes measurements or 
takes the necessary steps to insure that the equipment complies with the 
appropriate technical standards.  Submittal . . . 
(b) Verification attaches to all items subsequently marketed by the 
manufacturer or importer which are IDENTICAL (emphasis is mine) as defined in 
2.908

2.908
As used in this subpart, the term identical means identical within the 
variation that can be expected to arise as a result of quality production 
techniques. (So identical doesn't strictly mean the exact same processor)

2.953   Responsibility for compliance.
(a) In verifying compliance, the responsible party, as defined in §2.909 
warrants that each unit of equipment marketed under the verification procedure 
will be identical to the unit tested and found acceptable with the standards 
and that the records maintained by the responsible party continue to reflect 
the equipment being produced under such verification within the variation that 
can be expected due to quantity production and testing on a statistical basis.

Am I being too strict in my interpretation? Can I do an A/B comparison in my 
lab, and presuming no signifint change in my lab measured emmission allow 
release to production without outside testing? For the EU I would put the 
results of the test and rational for not testing further in the compliance 
folder.

I have the money but don't want to spend it needlessly. 

Thanks 


Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer



Esterline Interface Technologies
Featuring 
ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, 
and LRE MEDICAL  products
600 W. Wilbur Avenue
Coeur d'Alene, ID  83815-9496
Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX
Tel:  (208) 635-8
Fax: (208) 635-8

www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies

Technology, Innovation, Performance.

Information in or attached to this e-mail message may be subject to export 
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(22 CFR pts. 120-130) or the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) (15 CFR 
pts. 730-774).  Before exporting this information

Re: [PSES] Wake Up Test - Please Disregard

[Ron Pickard]

Yeah,  that's pretty funny.  I thought everyone was hibernating. 

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my  Android phone

div Original message /divdivFrom: Scott Douglas 
sdoug...@radiusnorth.net /divdivDate:07/10/2014  12:04 AM  (GMT-07:00) 
/divdivTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG /divdivSubject: [PSES] Wake Up 
Test - Please Disregard /divdiv
/divThis is a test message to wake up the list. It seems to have been asleep 
for the past 5 or 6 days. You can just delete it please.

Scott Douglas
EMC-PSTC List Admin

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Re: [PSES] Old photo?

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Thank you to all that responded. I should've known that that photo was web
linkable.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 10:23 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Old photo?

If you do a fault tree of the situation, you will find that the situation
meets all the criteria for safety -- under normal conditions and under
single fault conditions.

I've used this pix as part of my presentations for some time.


Rich



On 4/17/2014 10:35 AM, Ron Pickard RPQ wrote:

 There was a photo many years ago that depicted a light fixture being 
 serviced directly over an indoor pool by a barefoot person wet up to 
 his chest while on an aluminum step ladder that was standing in the 
 pool. I may have missed some details since I'm drawing from an old 
 memory. This photo obviously depicts many ways to provide an object 
 lesson for safety.

 I am interested in getting a copy of that photo. If anyone has this 
 photo or knows where a copy can be located please let me know. If 
 anyone else is interested in this photo, please let me know and I'll 
 see about getting a copy to those interested.

 I look forward to your reply.

 Best regards,

 Ron Pickard



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[PSES] Old photo?

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

There was a photo many years ago that depicted a light fixture being
serviced directly over an indoor pool by a barefoot person wet up to his
chest while on an aluminum step ladder that was standing in the pool. I may
have missed some details since I'm drawing from an old memory. This photo
obviously depicts many ways to provide an object lesson for safety.

 

I am interested in getting a copy of that photo. If anyone has this photo or
knows where a copy can be located please let me know. If anyone else is
interested in this photo, please let me know and I'll see about getting a
copy to those interested.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard


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Re: [PSES] EMC requirements for developer/evaluation boards

[Ron Pickard]

Hi there,
First, IMHO eval boards are typically end-use apparatus as they are not likely 
integrated into other equipment or even into enclosures.

I wanted to chime in on this to mention that such an allowance may be found in 
Article 4.3 of the EMC Directive. Although eval boards are not specifically 
described, there are allowances similar to the FCC Part 2.803 reference, but 
2.803 pertains to equipment prior to autorization typically pertaining to 
intentional radiators. It's not clear to me if the subject eval board is an 
intentional radiator or not.

However, please note the last sentence of the Article 4.3 paragraph, 
Demonstration may only take place provided that adquate measures are taken to 
avoid electromagnetic disturbances. This could mean that operation of these 
devices may be limited to faraday cages, screen rooms, 30 meters away from 
anything, etc (the text is not at all clear on that point). That doesn't seem 
practical as most of these eval boards will likely be operated in an 
engineering lab type of environment being used by engineers.

Well, that's my 2 cents (2 pence in EU). Comments are welcome.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my Android phone

 Original message 
From: EMC Guy emc.guy@gmail.com 
Date: 11/05/2013  9:37 AM  (GMT-07:00) 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC requirements for developer/evaluation boards 
 
Gary,

You are referring to FCC CFR47 Part 2.803 (c)(2)
---

(ii) A radio frequency device that is in the conceptual, developmental, design 
or pre-production stage may be offered for sale solely to business, commercial, 
industrial, scientific or medical users (but not an offer for sale to other 
parties or to end users located in a residential environment) if the 
prospective buyer is advised in writing at the time of the offer for sale that 
the equipment is subject to the FCC rules and that the equipment will comply 
with the appropriate rules before delivery to the buyer or to centers of 
distribution.

(iii) (A) A radio frequency device may be advertised or displayed, (e.g., at a 
trade show or exhibition) if accompanied by a conspicuous notice containing 
this language:

This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal 
Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale 
or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained.

---

It starts out very promising, but then it says: ...and that the equipment will 
comply with the appropriate rules before delivery to the buyer  The eval 
board will *never* comply with the appropriate rules, it's the whole point of 
the board.  But I guess the first part of the sentence is essentially the 
free-pass I was looking for.  I had never payed attention to the fact that this 
statement actually allows the sale of a developmental device.  Always thought 
that no money exhange was allowed under this section.

Thank you!

John





On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:12 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com 
wrote:
Sorry I don’t have time to look it up, but the FCC regulations do discuss 
equipment operation at trade shows and other places while the product is still 
under the designers control. The principle restriction was labeling that was 
clearing identified that it wasn’t for sale and that no money could transfer 
until the unit was approved. Sorry this is really vague and I took a very brief 
shot at finding it in the rules but don’t have time for a real search. But you 
should be able to find it at least for the US – obviously the EU doesn’t care 
about what the FCC would allow. So depending on where this is going the 
allowance for pre-approved equipment in the us may or may not be pertinent 
anyway.

 

I can see the labeling in my mind and it even had to be red in color (colour 
for my EU friends) but just can’t come up with the actual clause just now.

 

Gary

 

From: EMC Guy [mailto:emc.guy@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 7:44 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC requirements for developer/evaluation boards

 

I've been reading through all your answers and comments like through a good 
book.  I still have no idea how the story will end!

To follow-up on Gert Gremmen's comments, the kind of eval board I am adressing 
here is the kind with a whole bunch of connectors and test points installed 
directly on the PCB surface, to monitor clock signals or to inject voltage 
biases from external sources while the IC under test is being investigated.  Of 
course any eval board could be placed inside an enclosure with shielded 
connectors for everything, but I've never seen that.  And of course, doing so 
for an item not intended to be a finished product would add a lot of design 
cost that would lead to an unaffordable price for the eval boards, essentially 
killing the purpose.

The purpose of my enquiry was not to find a way to go around directives and 
standards

[PSES] Test lab acceptability query

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

To all,

I've been asked by a colleague to verify what he has recently learned, which
is in Malaysia, a ruling by SIRIM does not recognize regulatory
certification test reports from any Israeli certification lab.

 

Is this based in truth or is this something of a fabrication? If this is
true, does anyone have an official reference for that ruling? Also, how
widespread is this sort of thing in other countries?

 

I would like to know of any experiences or knowledge anyone has on this.
Please let me know.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 


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[PSES]

[Ron Pickard]

FYI.
Scanning the EU OJ just now, I noticed in OJ L063 (6-Mar) a new regulation 
(174/2013) and 2 entries relating to an international (EU-USA) agreement for an 
energy-efficiency labelling program for office equipment.

I haven't read into this just yet, but wanted to get the word out about it.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my  Android phone

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[PSES] Compliance fonts?

[Ron Pickard]

Has anyone made or know of a font that contains compliance symbols, agency 
logos, etc? If so and if you're willing to share, I and maybe others would be 
interested.

Please note that I am aware of and am sensitive to copyright issues that this 
may introduce. I am simply asking if there's anything like that out there, 
commercially available or not.

I look forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my  Android phone

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Re: [PSES] a CAB person and my Python

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Bill,

The $2 bill is, in fact, still a current denomination of US currency, albeit
rarely used. It's introduction was back in the mid-1800s, I believe. I still
have a few of them from many years ago.

 

But, there was the $3 bill, but that only made it to be funny money.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Bill Owsley
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:02 PM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; 'EMC-PSTC'
Subject: Re: a CAB person and my Python

 

And some of them are voters too!!!
Tonight at the grocery store, $50 back from the POS, and could you please
change this $20 for 2 tens?
I needed $60 and only had $20's and a soon to be $50, since all she had
$50's, no $20's, but did have $10's.
Clerk freaked, and said no way, and that she was not doing that!
Yes she was fresh out of high school.
I guess my expression reminded her of the one about making change for a $2
bill. (there is no such thing as $2)
So she finally caught on... but the rest of the line went to another lane!

ps. quite like the error in using whom.  I'll bet there is not clerk that
can say, or spell, or use whom
http://web.ku.edu/~edit/whom.html

 


  _  


From: Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com
To: 'EMC-PSTC' emc-pstc@using whom..ORG mailto:emc-pstc@using%20whom..ORG
 
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:09 PM
Subject: a CAB person and my Python


CAB person - So back to this Python language thing?
me - huh?
CAB person - So how is the test data affected if you no longer write it all
in C?
me - none, the instrument just sees a command and responds, it never sees
any elements of any programming language syntax. An ASCII string looks the
same regardless of the language that was used to write the system.
CAB person - How can the meters and source and logger and load not see the
language?
me - the equipment and the computer exchange serial streams of bit patterns
that represent SCPI commands and data. The test equipment has no need to see
any programming language, and has no ability to parse and no ability to
interpret anything other than SCPI commands.
CAB person - Whom is Skippy?

Brian

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Re: [PSES] Recast of RTTE directive

[Ron Pickard]

I've followed this thread and am concerned that such an action would constitute 
and introduce a significant barrier to trade, which is contrary to the intent 
of the scheme of the new approach directives, is it not?

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my  Android phone

 Original message 
From: Pat Lawler plawl...@gmail.com 
Date:  
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Recast of RTTE directive 
 
So, would having a DoC with a unique device ID imply the specific
device was tested to the standards listed - 100% production testing?
That would be cost prohibitive, not to mention degrading product
reliability in the case of line surge immunity testing.

Is there something in the recast that clarifies that a DoC with a
unique device ID doesn't mean the device was actually tested (aside
from normal production safety testing)?

Pat

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Scott Douglas sdoug...@radiusnorth.net wrote:
 I can tell you that trying to make a unique DofC for each individual unit
 serial number is absolutely unworkable. Not to mention a documentation and
 logistics nightmare.

 So who do we complain to about having a unique DofC for each specific
 product? How do we get our voices heard?

 Scott


 On 2/25/2013 8:30 AM, John Woodgate wrote:

 In message
 617eb8c8634c9149aa66c853d7b8ac53040e3...@by2prd0310mb389.namprd03.prod.o
 utlook.com, dated Mon, 25 Feb 2013, Crane, Lauren
 lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com writes:

 John, since you ask...(but perhaps you only meant the re-scoping)...


 I did mean the re-scoping.


 The RTTE recast is also be stepping forward with the unique equipment
 number requirement in the DoC which seems to require 1 DoC per unit (rather
 than 1 DoC per model line).


 AARGH!!!


 As I've mentioned in a previous post, this is also appearing in the LVD
 recast, though 1 parliamentarian (Zuzana Roithová) is trying to change the
 impact of this DoC requirements point 1 to be a unique identifier for the
 DoC document itself.


 I hope that industry in ALL countries will strongly object to this
 impractical AND ineffective provision.

 A non-compliant product can just as easily be supplied with a DoC carrying
 a serial number as a compliant product can (even though that is not at all
 easy in practice).


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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Re: [PSES] Ecma TR-106 available

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Rich,
Thank you and Tom getting this out to us. After reviewing this document, I
noticed that it references IEC 62368 Edition 1. As this Edition 1 was voted
down I believe by most NCBs causing Edition 2 to be created, will ECMA be
updating this document to reflect a comparison to IEC 62368 Edition 2, which
is supposed to be published early next year?

I look forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Richard Nute
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 12:45 PM
To: EMC-PSTC
Cc: Thomas M Burke
Subject: Ecma TR-106 available

Posted on behalf of Tom Burke, UL:

More good news for those seeking to learn more about IEC 62368-1 as the ICT
Industry prepares for the eventual transition from IEC 60950-1 (and IEC
60065) to IEC 62368-1. ECMA International, previously known as the European
Computer Manufacturers Association, has just published its Technical Report
TR/106, which provides guidance and comparison between
60950-1 and 62368-1. The report was published by ECMA's TC12 on Product
Safety, and the effort to develop and publish the TR was very capably led by
Mr. Richard Nute. Thank you Rich and members of ECMA TC12! ECMA has a strong
interest in IEC 62368-1 since its industry standard,
ECMA-287 Safety of electronic equipment, which was developed and published
in the 1990s and which first introduced hazard-based concepts, was the core
material that IEC TC108 used when it began it project developing IEC 62368-1
in 2002. It is believed that the availability of comparison documents like
TR/106 from a variety of sources helps industry prepare for the pending
transition and also helps clear up some of the misconceptions about the new
standard. As has been discussed in this group previously, IEC 62368-1 has
many familiar elements from 60950-1, including allowance for prescriptive
constructions that have proven safe in 60950-1 and that may be used as an
alternative to some of the performance based requirements in 62368-1.
Provided below are links to information on ECMA TC12 and the TR/106
(available free of charge).

http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/TC12.htm

http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/techreports/E-TR-106.htm;


Best regards,
Rich

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Re: [PSES] Ecma TR-106 available

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Rich,
Adding one more question to Brian's list.

I know this may be a bit rhetorical, but do you have an idea when the IECEE 
will align the CB Scheme to IEC62368 Ed 2, including the TRFs?

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
Sent from my  Android phone

 Original message 
From: Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com 
Date:  
To: 'EMC-PSTC' emc-p...@ieee.org 
Subject: RE: Ecma TR-106 available 
 
More good stuff from Mr. Nute. And more questions from the peanut gallery.

1. Other than the SPD and flame test issues, what where the problems that
the TC had with the 1st edition?
2. Is TC108 still scheduled to vote in March?
3. Do organizations such as UL and CSA have the influence to get the next
building code updated (NEC and CEC) to specify 62368-1?
4. 62368-1 says components having 60950-1 reports/certs are acceptable, and
the UL seminar said that no diff for component requirements. So why are
agencies charging 25% more for a component report that contains only one
additional drawing and two additional test pages compare to the ITE report?
Are we paying to train agency engineers?

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Richard
Nute
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:34 AM
To: rpick...@rpqconsulting.com
Cc: 'Thomas M Burke'; 'EMC-PSTC'; Onno Elzinga
Subject: Re: Ecma TR-106 available

Hi Ron:

IEC 62368-1 Edition 1 is an approved IEC standard.

It was not voted down, but its adoption as a national
or regional standard has been discouraged due to a
number of problems in the standard.  (This is what
prompted the urgent work on a second edition.)

(UL and maybe others have been accepting submittals
to the first edition.)

TC108 management expects the second edition to be
accepted, and will supersede the first edition.
(The U.S.A. has voted for adoption of the second
edition.)  TC108 expects that the second edition
will be adopted by national and regional regulatory
bodies.  Transition time from IEC 60950-1 and IEC
60065 is expected to be in the range of 5-8 years.

Ecma TC12 has lost most of its membership.  At
the moment, it does not have sufficient staffing
to produce a comparison document with the second
edition or with IEC 60065.

We are seeking members; let me know if you would
like to join Ecma TC12 and contribute to the two
comparison documents.  We usually meet just before
the TC108 meetings so as to minimize travel costs.

TC12 active members are from IBM (2), HP (1), and
Intel (1).  And me.


Best regards,
Rich
541-633-7252

On 2/26/2013 6:37 AM, Ron Pickard RPQ wrote:
 Hi Rich,
 Thank you and Tom getting this out to us. After reviewing this document, I
 noticed that it references IEC 62368 Edition 1. As this Edition 1 was
voted
 down I believe by most NCBs causing Edition 2 to be created, will ECMA be
 updating this document to reflect a comparison to IEC 62368 Edition 2,
which
 is supposed to be published early next year?

 I look forward to your reply.

 Best regards,

 Ron Pickard

 -Original Message-
 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Nute
 Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 12:45 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC
 Cc: Thomas M Burke
 Subject: Ecma TR-106 available

 Posted on behalf of Tom Burke, UL:

 More good news for those seeking to learn more about IEC 62368-1 as the
ICT
 Industry prepares for the eventual transition from IEC 60950-1 (and IEC
 60065) to IEC 62368-1. ECMA International, previously known as the
European
 Computer Manufacturers Association, has just published its Technical
Report
 TR/106, which provides guidance and comparison between
 60950-1 and 62368-1. The report was published by ECMA's TC12 on Product
 Safety, and the effort to develop and publish the TR was very capably led
by
 Mr. Richard Nute. Thank you Rich and members of ECMA TC12! ECMA has a
strong
 interest in IEC 62368-1 since its industry standard,
 ECMA-287 Safety of electronic equipment, which was developed and
published
 in the 1990s and which first introduced hazard-based concepts, was the
core
 material that IEC TC108 used when it began it project developing IEC
62368-1
 in 2002. It is believed that the availability of comparison documents like
 TR/106 from a variety of sources helps industry prepare for the pending
 transition and also helps clear up some of the misconceptions about the
new
 standard. As has been discussed in this group previously, IEC 62368-1 has
 many familiar elements from 60950-1, including allowance for prescriptive
 constructions that have proven safe in 60950-1 and that may be used as an
 alternative to some of the performance based requirements in 62368-1.
 Provided below are links to information on ECMA TC12 and the TR/106
 (available free of charge).

 http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/TC12.htm

 http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/techreports/E-TR-106.htm;


 Best regards,
 Rich

-

This message

Re: [PSES] FCC IC and Product Information

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Previous contributors have given good information and I've had no experience
in which a TCB or the FCC have charged extra for a confidentiality request.

 

Here in the USA, details of what can/cannot be held confidential and under
what conditions are generally found in FCC Part 0 (0.457-0.459 I believe).
Also refer to Public Notice DA 04-1705 and the FCC's marketing regulations
found in FCC Part 2.803 for further guidance.

 

In Canada, requests for 100% confidentiality are usually granted by Industry
Canada (mostly because they don't make any documents available on their REL
listings page anyway).

 

IHTH.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Derby
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 7:43 AM
To: 'itl-emc user group'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] FCC  IC and Product Information

 

Hello,

 

You cannot get confidentiality or even short term confidentiality on a test
report.   You can't keep the results private, sorry.

 

David is correct in his summary below.

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby

Regulatory Engineer

ACB Europe

 

From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] 
Sent: 30 January 2013 05:15
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC  IC and Product Information

 

In my experience, TCB's don't charge extra for confidentiality unlike the
FCC.

I have not heard of short term confidentiality for a test report.

Internal photos can be kept confidential only under certain circumstances
such as the device being filled and sealed with epoxy. Permanent
confidentiality request for schematics, block diagram and parts list is
given without any problem. 

 

Regards,

David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer

Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel

Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101

Mail e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.il  Web  http://www.itl.co.il/
www.itl.co.il

 

 http://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx Fill out Customer
Satisfaction Survey

Global Certifications You Can Trust 

 

 

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Mark Gandler
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:50 PM
To: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: RE: [PSES] FCC  IC and Product Information

 

You can submit 180 days Short term request for confidentiality pretty much
on most of the  information (phots, manuals, test setup) and later on ask
for 90 days extension.

The longer the request higher the fee

 

There is also an option for permanent confidentiality request on some of the
more critical info: block diagram, schematics. There is also a fee for that.


 

Mark

  _  

From: edpr...@cox.net
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] FCC  IC and Product Information
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:27:46 -0800

Bill:

 

Wow, I never knew about this source. This will keep me up all night!

 

Ed Price

WB6WSN

Chula Vista, CA  USA

 

From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 8:40 PM
To: Ed Price
Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC  IC and Product Information

 

http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/
and explore from there...

 


  _  


From: Ed Price edpr...@cox.net
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 10:05 PM
Subject: RE: [PSES] FCC  IC and Product Information


I didn't realize that the FCC releases any information to the public, other
than cross-referencing to your approval status. Do you mean something like
the information in your FRN (FCC Registration Number) that you have in order
to do business with the FCC?

BTW, I think it would be really great if I could access the test data
submitted to the FCC for things like Part 15 compliance. For one thing, as a
consumer, I could use that as a component of my purchasing decision. For
instance, if I were buying a DC to AC inverter, I could look at several and
be able to choose which one had the lowest emission signature, which is a
lot better than just the assurance that they all passed the limit.

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA  USA


-Original Message-
From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 6:47 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] FCC  IC and Product Information

Dear Members

How long can we prevent the FCC or IC from releasing any testing/product
information to the public?

Peter

Sent from my iPhone

Peter S. Merguerian
pe...@goglobalcompliance.com
Go Global Compliance Inc.
www.goglobalcompliance.com http://www.goglobalcompliance.com/ 
(408) 931-3303

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Re: [PSES] Ball drop test and Impact hammer test ... IEC60950-1 2005 and UL, CSA variation

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Sudhakar,

Yes, but how would you plan to keep that impact hammer in calibration. Note
that the 50mm steel ball essentially maintains its calibration unless it is
damaged.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of sudhakar
wasnik
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 7:48 PM
To: doug...@gmail.com; EMC-PSTC
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ball drop test and Impact hammer test ... IEC60950-1
2005 and UL, CSA variation

 

You can make 5.0J Impact hammer and use it

 

  _  

From: doug...@gmail.com doug...@gmail.com
To: Sudhakar Wasnik saloni95...@yahoo.com; EMC-PSTC
EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org 
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Ball drop test and Impact hammer test ... IEC60950-1
2005 and UL, CSA variation

 

Typically the spring loaded impact hammer is 0.5 Joules, the 50mm steel
sphere is 5.0 Joules when doing the vertical or pendulum drop.

Doug



Douglas E Powell
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

  _  

From: sudhakar wasnik saloni95...@yahoo.com 

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 18:19:34 -0800

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

ReplyTo: sudhakar wasnik saloni95...@yahoo.com 

Subject: [PSES] Ball drop test and Impact hammer test ... IEC60950-1 2005
and UL, CSA variation

 

Hi Guys, 

 

Can the ball drop test be conducted using impact hammer ?  

 

I do not see any credible reason for not using the impact hammer.

 

Impact test using impact hammer delivers x amount of Joules energy  upon
impact similar  to the dropping of steel ball of certain size from certain
height.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Sudhakar Wasnik, MS EE, IES

 

Apple Inc.

-


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Re: [PSES] iPhone 5 TxRx frequencies on 4g

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Derek,

 

Frequency bands used on the ATT Network are:

 

Frequency  Protocol   Class

850 MHz   GSM/GPRS/EDGE2G

1900 MHzGSM/GPRS/EDGE2G

850 MHz   UMTS/HSPA   3G

1900 MHzUMTS/HSPA   3G

700 MHz   LTE   
  4G

1700/2100 MHz(AWS)LTE 4G

 

Please note that your iPhone 5 will likely use any of the above frequency bands 
depending on your wireless connection quality at any given time. IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:16 PM
To: Larry Stillings
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: iPhone 5 TxRx frequencies on 4g

 

I'm on AT and T out here.

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 6, 2013, at 16:00, Larry Stillings la...@complianceworldwide.com wrote:

Derek,

 

Who's 4G Network? ATT or Verizon or other carrier I am not familiar with? It 
carrier will determine what part of the spectrum they own is being used for 4G.

 

Most likely it would be the frequencies certified under FCC Part 27 of the 
rules which are numerous.

 

Larry

 

  _  

From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:14 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: iPhone 5 TxRx frequencies on 4g

HI folks, can anyone tell me what transmit and receive frequencies my iPhone 5 
uses here on the US 4G network please. 

 

Thanks,


Derek.

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Re: [PSES] Sanity check - Korea please

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Gary,

Korea aside, how would a 14 yr old EU/CE EMC test report still provide a
presumption of conformity with the current EMC or RTTE Directives as their
lists of harmonized standards are regularly revised/updated?

 

Given the EU standards you're referencing, I assume that the product in
question is an unintentional radiator (no wireless transmitters). Does
safety (60950-1, 60950, 950) also apply? What inter-communication features
does this product have (PSTN, etc.)? As you can see, depending on this
product's features, actual compliance time/costs can spiral further than a
new EMC test report.

 

Regarding Korea, I will have to bow to others more experienced with the new
KCC requirements.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff,
Gary
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:26 PM
To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'
Subject: Sanity check - Korea please

 

I have a customer with a EMC test about 14 years old now - and it was done
to US and EU requirements 55022 55024 etc. They now have a requirement for
Korea and are insisting that Korean approval can be gained without a Korean
acceptance of the test - which requires documented evidence that the tests
were perform at Korean required voltage an frequency.

 

Ignoring the fact that generally no county accepts test reports that old for
a new approval even if the design has never changed. Can anyone verify that
Korea will not accept for approval test data that doesn't clearly indicate
the appropriate test voltages and frequencies are used - will they accept
European test voltages.

 

The bottom line is that after 14 years they have a new requirement and want
us to eat the cost of getting it, somehow assuming we should have known
better than they that in the far distant future they would have a new
market. 

 

 


Gary McInturff

Reliability/Compliance Engineer

 

 

 


 


Esterline Interface Technologies

Featuring

ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products

 


600 W. Wilbur Avenue

Coeur d'Alene, ID  83815-9496

Office:208-635-8306

Cell:  509 868 2279

Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238

gary.mcintu...@esterline.com mailto:brian.s...@esterline.com 

 

 

 http://www.esterline.com/advancedinput
www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies

 

Technology, Innovation, Performance...

 

 

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[PSES] A change in the wind... again

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Well, it as a shock to many, but I along with many others were let go
yesterday from my now previous employer. If anyone has any leads for an
experienced regulatory engineer/manager, please let me know. It will be much
appreciated.

 

Also, if anyone knows of anyone that may be in need of an experienced
independent regulatory consultant, please let me know that, too. It will be
much appreciated as well.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 mailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

 http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ www.rpqconsulting.com

 


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Re: [PSES] RoHS2 - Harm. Std List in OJ

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Ilan,
Please check again as it is showing now. They may have updated it just after
your email was sent.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ilan Cohen
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 1:42 AM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: RoHS2 - Harm. Std List in OJ

Guys

It is not showing up on the EU web site?!
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/european-standards/harmonised-standa
rds/restriction-of-hazardous-substances/index_en.htm

Ilan 

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
Oconnell
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:10 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: RoHS2 - Harm. Std List in OJ

Thank you sir, for this most unkind news.

So we have formal report and data requirements, but no approved test method.
The European regulators really need to get a life...

So what will happen to EN62321 and IEC62476?

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ron Pickard
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC (EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG)
Subject: RoHS2 - Harm. Std List in OJ

Well, it had to happen I suppose. FYI.

On 23-Nov, the EU OJ published the first harmonized standards list for the
new RoHS Directive, 2011/65/EU. It can be found at
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2012:363:0006:000
7:EN:PDF. There is only the following standard in that list:

EN 50581:2012, Technical documentation for the assessment of electrical and
electronic products with respect to the restriction of hazardous substances

Best regards,

Ron

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[PSES] RoHS2 - Harm. Std List in OJ

[Ron Pickard]

Well, it had to happen I suppose. FYI.

On 23-Nov, the EU OJ published the first harmonized standards list for the new 
RoHS Directive, 2011/65/EU. It can be found at 
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2012:363:0006:0007:EN:PDF.
 There is only the following standard in that list:

EN 50581:2012, Technical documentation for the assessment of electrical and 
electronic products with respect to the restriction of hazardous substances

Best regards,

Ron


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Re: [PSES] POE creepage clearances

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Joe,
I agree that an Ethernet circuit would be considered to be an SELV circuit and 
that would be true if the POE circuit were completely on premise generally, 
which would categorize this as a Class III product according to IEC/UL 60950-1 
2nd Ed. given that the external power supply is a limited power source (LPS). 
However, TNV-1 creepage/clearance requirements would apply if the POE were to 
be exposed to overvoltages from telecommunication networks (essentially off 
premise) requiring Basic insulation. I make this distinction as Ian did not 
mention where the POE circuit originates.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com]
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 12:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] POE creepage  clearances

Hi Ian:

I think the short answer to your question is that under 60950 there are no 
requirements for creepage and clearance distance between the Ethernet circuit 
and ordinary SELV circuits that are user-contactable.  This is because under 
60950, Ethernet is classified as an SELV circuit.  There are no requirements to 
separate one SELV circuit from another.

Where this issue becomes confusing is that under the Ethernet 802.3 standard, 
an Ethernet port must provide a 1500 VRMS isolation barrier between the 
Ethernet conductors and earth.  This is a legacy requirement whose origins seem 
to have been lost in the sands of time.  However, I believe the consensus view 
is that the original intent of this requirement was to protect against ground 
loops and was not related to user safety.  Nevertheless, the 802.3 isolation 
requirement has sometimes been treated as though it is a safety requirement.  
Note that the 802.3 requirement is for a simple dielectric test, with no 
reference to creepage, clearance, or distance through solid insulation.

So, in principle, there are no safety isolation requirements for your 
application, since both of the proposed power supplies have a SELV output.  
This makes the entire device a SELV circuit (unless there are other ports on 
the device that are not SELV).




Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.commailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.comhttp://www.randolph-telecom.com/





Dear colleagues

We are developing a hand held product that is powered from +48V DC over 
Ethernet or from an external +12V DC wall wart PSU. The maximum internal 
voltage will be the +48V POE.
Can anyone let me know what the creepage and clearance requirements between the 
?primary? Ethernet circuit and the ?secondary? circuit.
The product will be tested to IEC 60950 or possibly IEC 60065 so I am assuming 
a safety isolation creepage  clearance is required.

Many thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.

-


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David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com
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For policy 

Re: [PSES] POE creepage clearances

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Ralph,
Thanks for pointing that out, but I didn't think I had to mention that since 
Ian had already noted it being +12Vdc.

Best regards,

Ron

From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com 
[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 5:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] POE creepage  clearances

The external DC power supply needs to be SELV too, not just energy limited.
___

Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  |   
Regulatory Compliance Engineering


From:

Ron Pickard rpick...@equinoxpayments.commailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com

To:

EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG,

Date:

11/26/2012 12:38 PM

Subject:

Re: [PSES] POE creepage  clearances






Hi Joe,
I agree that an Ethernet circuit would be considered to be an SELV circuit and 
that would be true if the POE circuit were completely on premise generally, 
which would categorize this as a Class III product according to IEC/UL 60950-1 
2nd Ed. given that the external power supply is a limited power source (LPS). 
However, TNV-1 creepage/clearance requirements would apply if the POE were to 
be exposed to overvoltages from telecommunication networks (essentially off 
premise) requiring Basic insulation. I make this distinction as Ian did not 
mention where the POE circuit originates.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com]
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 12:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] POE creepage  clearances

Hi Ian:

I think the short answer to your question is that under 60950 there are no 
requirements for creepage and clearance distance between the Ethernet circuit 
and ordinary SELV circuits that are user-contactable.  This is because under 
60950, Ethernet is classified as an SELV circuit.  There are no requirements to 
separate one SELV circuit from another.

Where this issue becomes confusing is that under the Ethernet 802.3 standard, 
an Ethernet port must provide a 1500 VRMS isolation barrier between the 
Ethernet conductors and earth.  This is a legacy requirement whose origins seem 
to have been lost in the sands of time.  However, I believe the consensus view 
is that the original intent of this requirement was to protect against ground 
loops and was not related to user safety.  Nevertheless, the 802.3 isolation 
requirement has sometimes been treated as though it is a safety requirement.  
Note that the 802.3 requirement is for a simple dielectric test, with no 
reference to creepage, clearance, or distance through solid insulation.

So, in principle, there are no safety isolation requirements for your 
application, since both of the proposed power supplies have a SELV output.  
This makes the entire device a SELV circuit (unless there are other ports on 
the device that are not SELV).




Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.commailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.comhttp://www.randolph-telecom.com/





Dear colleagues

We are developing a hand held product that is powered from +48V DC over 
Ethernet or from an external +12V DC wall wart PSU. The maximum internal 
voltage will be the +48V POE.
Can anyone let me know what the creepage and clearance requirements between the 
?primary? Ethernet circuit and the ?secondary? circuit.
The product will be tested to IEC 60950 or possibly IEC 60065 so I am assuming 
a safety isolation creepage  clearance is required.

Many thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.

-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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David Heald

Re: [PSES] Logo Identification

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Tom,
That symbol is a China RoHS marking found in document SJ/T11364-2006 issued by 
the MII where the specifications for that symbol are given. This symbol's 
intent is to indicate a product to be environmentally friendly.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Tom Smith [mailto:tsm...@tjstechnical.com]
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 1:51 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Logo Identification

Can someone identify the organization that issues this logo?
http://tjstechnical.com/images/IMG_0238-1.jpg
Tom Smith, P.Eng
Product Safety and Approvals Consultant
TJS Technical Services Inc.
Tel: +1 403-612-6664
Email: tsm...@tjstechnical.commailto:tsm...@tjstechnical.com
http://tjstechnical.comhttp://tjstechnical.com/
Follow us on Twitter: TJS_Technical


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Re: [PSES] Testing EUT

[Ron Pickard]

Actually, I think exercition may be a French word as I seem to recall seeing it 
used in French text a few years ago, but I may be mistaken and probably am. Not 
sure about exercision, but it may have a similar meaning as exercition, but yet 
in another language. Or, is Gert actually testing us?  :-)

Best regards,
Ron

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:55 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Testing EUT

In message FCA549BE3ECF9D4CB8CB8576837EA489140AA0@ZEUS.cetest.local,
dated Wed, 31 Oct 2012, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen 
g.grem...@cetest.nl writes:

Exercise / Exercising / Exercision / Exercition    (of  a EUT in order 
to have it tested)

To exercise - verb

Exercising - participle (I am exercising the EUT) or gerund (Exercising the EUT 
is an essential step.)

Exercision - rare word, not in Chambers' dictionary

Exercition - very rare word, possibly extinct. A form of 'exercitation', also 
very rare?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk The longer it takes to make a 
point, the more obtuse it proves to be.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] OJ today, updated EMCD RTTED harmonized stds lists

[Ron Pickard]

To all,
FYI. Revised harmonized standards lists for the EMC and RTTE directives were 
just published today in the OJ. Here's the link:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2012:321:SOM:EN:HTML

Best regards,

Ron

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Re: [PSES] RoHS Question

[Ron Pickard]

Brian,
Further to Mark's reply, please note that compliance to the recast RoHS 
Directive is to be indicated in a product's DofC (Article 13) and CE marking 
(Article 16).

IMHO, a CE marked product itself must adhere to the requirements of any EU 
directives that are applicable to it including the recast RoHS Directive. 
Accessory items such as you've described may or may not have other EU 
directives applicable to them.

Comments?

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Mark Schmidt [mailto:mark.schm...@dornerworks.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 8:59 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS Question

In both cases it is directed at electrical and electronic equipment.

Mark

From: Kunde, Brian 
[mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]mailto:[mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 11:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RoHS Question

A few weeks ago we discussed if cables were included in the RoHS Directive. I 
would like to take this a step further and ask if this directive applies to the 
non-electrical items that may be shipped with, used with, or bundled with an 
electronic device.

For example, mouse pad, wrist pad, manuals and other documentation, 
disks/media, mounting stand/bracket/legs, security lock/cable, desk and/or 
chair (workstation), cabinets, hand tools (hex wrench, screw/nut drivers, 
etc.), consumables such as standards, inks, cleaners, wipes, crucibles, test 
strips, or packaging.

And in the case where you have a cabinet, stand, or desk to which an electronic 
device can be or is mounted, does RoHS apply to the entire assembly or only the 
electronic device being that it can be separated or is a completely separate 
assembly?

Would the WEEE directive apply to such non-electrical components if shipped 
with but not mechanically attached to an electronic device?

Thanks for all replies and advice.

The Other Brian



LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
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Re: [PSES] EN 1300 accredited test labs?

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

This is a resend as I've received no replies and am questioning if everyone
received it. BTW, EN 1300 pertains to Secure Storage Units - Classification
for high security locks according to their resistance to unauthorized
opening. I am hoping that someone knows of any such test labs either in the
USA or in the UK. Please advise.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: Ron Pickard RPQ [mailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com] 
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 5:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: EN 1300 accredited test labs?

 

Hello,

This may be a bit OT, but I'm inquiring if anyone knows of any test labs
accredited to perform EN 1300 testing that located in the USA and preferably
located on the west coast of the USA. If truly OT, then please respond
directly to me.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 


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[PSES] EN 1300 accredited test labs?

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hello,

This may be a bit OT, but I'm inquiring if anyone knows of any test labs
accredited to perform EN 1300 testing that located in the USA and preferably
located on the west coast of the USA. If truly OT, then please respond
directly to me.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 


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[PSES] New list of LVD harmonized stds in OJ

[Ron Pickard]

FYI, in today's OJ, a new LVD harmonized standards 
listhttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2012:245:SOM:EN:HTML was 
posted.

Best regards,

Ron


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[PSES] recast WEEE published

[Ron Pickard]

To all,
FYI. The EU's recast WEEE Directive (2012/19/EU) was published in the OJ on 
24-Jul. The link to it is 
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:197:0038:0071:EN:PDF.

Best regards,

Ron


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Re: [PSES] recast WEEE published

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Scott,
As for this and the RoHS directives being a matching pair and from a cursory 
review, it appears that these two directives are now autonomous.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 9:29 AM
To: Ron Pickard; EMC-PSTC (EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG)
Subject: Re: recast WEEE published

Is it a matching pair of RoHS recast?

Rgds,

Scott


On 27/7/12 12:14 AM, Ron Pickard rpick...@equinoxpayments.com wrote:
To all,
FYI. The EU's recast WEEE Directive (2012/19/EU) was published in the OJ on 
24-Jul. The link to it is 
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:197:0038:0071:EN:PDF.

Best regards,

Ron

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Re: [PSES] Interview Questions

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Scott,
That's not always the case. I've had experience with auto-ranging 120/240V 
products where no voltage selector switch was needed.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Aldous, Scott [mailto:scott.ald...@aei.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 12:59 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Interview Questions

I believe Nick may be fishing for the answer - a voltage selector switch.

Back to the original question... Of course, an interview is much better for 
assessing this type of knowledge, but if you have to have questions on an 
application where candidates fill it out from home, you could ask questions 
based on personal experience, such as describe an experience you have had 
where you solved an issue with creepage distance and how you did it or 
something like that. People could always just lie and make something up, but it 
should be pretty easy to tell if someone has no idea what they're talking 
about. Much harder to Google this type of specific problem and solution, I 
would think.

Scott Aldous
Compliance Engineer
AE Solar Energy

  +1.970.492.2065 Direct
  +1.970.407.5872 Fax
  +1.541.312.3832 Main
scott.ald...@aei.commailto:scott.ald...@aei.com
1625 Sharp Point Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80525

www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergyhttp://www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergy


From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of IBM 
Ken
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 1:43 PM
To: Nick Williams
Cc: Kevin Robinson; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: Interview Questions

Not sure this is what you are looking for; but the 110-230V unit is rated as a 
range, so the tolerance would be below 110 and above 230.  The 110/230 V has 
two distinct rating ranges, so the tolerances would be above and below 110 AND 
above and below 230VAC.  That's the first thing that pops into mind, anyway.

PS: Who operates at 110VAC 50Hz?



On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Nick Williams 
nick.willi...@conformance.co.ukmailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk wrote:
This has the makings of an extremely esoteric pub quiz, if we're not careful!

Here is one, adapted from a phone enquiry I dealt with this morning this 
morning:

You have two appliances. One is marked 110 - 230V ~50Hz and the other is 
marked 110/230V ~50Hz. What do you look for on one which is missing from the 
other?

I'll let the group answer.

Nick.

On 3 Jul 2012, at 19:38, Kevin Robinson wrote:

Hello All,

I have recently been tasked with writing a set of questions that job
candidates would need to answer at the same time they apply for a
position requiring  knowledge of product safety evaluation, testing
and practices.  These questions would serve as an automated pre
screening mechanism.  Questions like What does the term creepage
distance mean? would be perfect , however the challenge that I am
facing is finding questions that the answers are not easily found
using Google.  If anyone has any product safety related questions that
they would not mind sharing, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kevin Robinson

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Nick Williams
Director
Direct line: +44 1298 873811tel:%2B44%201298%20873811
Mobile: +44 7702 995135tel:%2B44%207702%20995135
email: nick.willi...@conformance.co.ukmailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk

-

Conformance Ltd - Product safety, approvals and CE-marking consultants
The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG England
Tel. +44 1298 873800tel:%2B44%201298%20873800, Fax. +44 1298 
873801tel:%2B44%201298%20873801, 
www.conformance.co.ukhttp://www.conformance.co.uk/
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

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Re: [PSES] Lithium Batteries and EMC

[Ron Pickard]

I believe you are reading that correctly as EU directive 2006/66/EC pertains to 
batteries and accumulators, which is a RoHS-like directive that has its own 
marking requirement.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original Message-
From: Ted Eckert [mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:44 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Lithium Batteries and EMC

The new RoHS Directive, 2011/65/ED, requires CE marking. Could this be why 
there is a CE mark on the battery? Section 14 of the preamble indicates that 
the Directive does apply to batteries if I'm reading it correctly.

Ted Eckert
Compliance Engineer
Microsoft Corporation
ted.eck...@microsoft.com

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.
-Original Message-
From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:34 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: Lithium Batteries and EMC

The CE Marking just means that a product meets all applicable new approach 
directives.  I've seen it on inflatable toys, and I'll bet my next paycheck 
that the EMC Directive was not considered.  There is, however, a toy directive 
and they met the essential requirements for that one.

Ghery S. Pettit

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:19 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Lithium Batteries and EMC

There are several directives where the CE mark would be required - depends on 
end-use equipment/environment and battery capacity.

Apply EMC directive to the battery itself where uControllers is embedded, 
otherwise, the EMCD/tests are applied to the charger where specific battery 
models are specified in the report and D of C.

Is what I do correct for all possible combinations of 
batteries/chargers/equipment?
  No
Is what I do required by the customer?
 Yes

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of rehel...@mmm.com
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:00 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Lithium Batteries and EMC

I noticed a lithium battery with a CE marking on it.

Is EMC part of that CE Mark? Are there any EMC standards/requirements for smart 
batteries?

Thanks,
Bob Heller
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel: 651-778-6336
Fax: 651-778-6252

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Re: [PSES] EU Telco Regulatory Requirements for xDSL or Voice products

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Mark,
I believe you understand the crux of it and I don't believe you are missing 
anything according to your questions. When the RTTE directive was published, 
it made very little sense to me as to why there were no harmonized TTE 
standards associated with the RTTE directive, which was a departure from the 
earlier TTE directives. It's been my understanding that the general position on 
this is that non-compliant TTE will eliminate themselves from the EU market 
soon enough mainly due to their lack of interoperability with the EU's PSTN 
networks (briefly stated). This has also been echoed by more than one 
individual knowledgeable with this.

IHTH.

If anyone else has anything to contribute or has more inside information on 
this, please let us know.

I look forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Ron
(Please note my new email address, rpick...@equinoxpayments.com)

From: Mark Gandler [mailto:markgand...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 4:35 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EU Telco Regulatory Requirements for xDSL or Voice products


Hi,

Do you find yourself wondering if all those years you have been doing the right 
thing? Regarding this or that requirement, standard or procedure? You think you 
know the answer, but doubting worm keep messing up your head, bringing this 
very unsettling feeling of oh (enter your own expletive) , what if I am 
wrong? You hope 4-5 years ago you made a right decision, but the reasons why 
seem to be eluding you at this moment?

Product: ADSL Gateway. Regon: Eurpean Union.

Are where any similar to FCC part 68 or A-tick regulations and processes in EU 
for ADSL products?

RTTE Directive regulates ADSL products, but primarily from EMC and Safety 
point of view. Under RTTE harmonized standards, there are no standards 
regulating connection to public networks in EU.

There are other (unrelated to RTTE) ETSI, TBR, IEC standards describing 
connection requirements, but I can't find any standards products will be 
required to comply with as part of CE Mark compliance assessment. Am I missing 
something? Or are these standards part of RTTE but not harmonized?

If PSTN connection requirements are not part of RTTE CE process, which 
processes it falls under and how it gets regulated or enforced?

In addition to CE, are where any other legal requirements to sell modems in EU?

I will be now bracing myself for feedback onslaught.

Thanks,

Mark
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Re: [PSES] Statute of limitations

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Gary,
Ted brought up a good point that for me has proven in a past life for a fairly 
benign EMC-passing product to produce a surprising comb generator effect that 
created a few headaches to deal with. Also, the EU's harmonized standards lists 
are regularly updated to indicate new/revised standard effectivity for a 
presumption of conformity. I use those lists as a means to keep products up to 
date regulatorily (sp?) speaking. And, keeping test reports and the DofC up to 
date keeps existing and prospective customers happy.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:09 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Statute of limitations

Thanks Ted, John Woodgate suggested the same thing, and I hadn't thought about 
that aspect. Nice catch

Gary

From: Ted Eckert 
[mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com]mailto:[mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Statute of limitations

I've had a number of cases where an IC vendor did a die shrink on an IC without 
rescaling the pin drivers. Even though the IC ran at the same speeds, the edges 
were much sharper leading to problems at higher harmonics. I would suspect that 
a number of ICs in your system have undergone die shrinks. The IC vendors are 
always looking for ways to get more chips out of a single wafer.

Ted Eckert
Compliance Engineer
Microsoft Corporation
ted.eck...@microsoft.commailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

From: McInturff, Gary 
[mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]mailto:[mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:16 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Statute of limitations

Is there any time limit on how long a test result is valid for an EMC test - if 
the product hasn't changed. CB reports have a 3 year shelf life, after which 
the various CB participants are obligated to take the reports on face value and 
could require inspection or retest, but I don't know if the same is true for 
EMC test when meeting the EU directives. Actually I guess the requirement for a 
CB update every three years isn't truly a requirement for meeting the 
directives either. The CB report is a tool to help show conformity.

Bottom line the last EMC test was in 2004, and the clock speeds are pretty low 
- 12 MHz, so I don't think even the new upper frequency test range requirements 
of EN55022 affect the results.
I'm inclined to test, the customer is not.

Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer








Esterline Interface Technologies

Featuring
ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products



600 W. Wilbur Avenue
Coeur d'Alene, ID  83815-9496
Office:208-635-8306
Cell:  509 868 2279
Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238
gary.mcintu...@esterline.commailto:brian.s...@esterline.com


www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologieshttp://www.esterline.com/advancedinput

Technology, Innovation, Performance...



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Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Lauren,
I have no experience with that site.

Exceptionally  good buys there to be sure, but I would also the legality of it. 
Also intriguing at the bottom of the webpage is the claim that it is Powered 
by American National Standards Institute with a hyperlink to http://ansi.org. 
Still, approach with caution.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world

Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor.

Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if 
it's too good to be true warning systems.

Regards,
Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor

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Re: [PSES] Kuwait regulations

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Richard,

Due to bandwidth issues, I can only point you to the GCC Standardization 
Organizationhttp://www.gso.org.sa/ (GSO), which is a Middle Eastern product 
safety approval scheme with technical regulations and product marking 
requirements. You'll have to investigate if these requirements pertain to your 
product. Please note that Kuwait is a GCC/GSO member.



IHTH.



Best regards,



Ron



-Original Message-
From: Gartman, Richard [mailto:rgart...@ti.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:28 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Kuwait regulations



Panel of experts,



Question:

What are the necessary requirements (Product safety, EMC, registration, etc. ) 
to ship a battery operated calculator with a USB connection into Kuwait? The 
calculator has a rechargeable lithium battery (800mAHr). The battery can be 
recharged by a standard USB connection (5V 500mA). We do have an EU designed AC 
adapter (wall wort) for this purpose that has the GS mark.



Your advice is appreciated.



W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP

Product Stewardship Manager

Texas Instruments, Education Technology

13532 N Central Expressway, Dallas, TX 75243

Office: 214-567-7927 Email: rgart...@ti.commailto:rgart...@ti.com

www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardshiphttp://www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardship

www.ti.com/ccrhttp://www.ti.com/ccr

Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one 
earth - don't waste it.



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Re: [PSES] ATT and IEEE Requirements for Power Supplies

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Moshe,
That would likely be IEEE 1725, which is a CTIA/PTCRB requirement for mobile 
cellular type phones.

IHTH.

Best regards,
Ron Pickard
Sent from my Blackberry

From: Moshe Henig [mailto:moshe.he...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:59 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] ATT and IEEE Requirements for Power Supplies

Dear group,

Can you plrease advice I was asked to find IEEE requirements for ATT Power 
Supplies/Battery Chargers for mobile phones.

Thanks for your help

Moshe


Moshe Henig Dipl. Ing.
NCE SMIEEE
EMC and Safety consultant
Mobile 972 52 8951449
Skype mhenig
he...@bezeqint.netmailto:he...@bezeqint.net
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Re: [PSES] receiving/approval processes under fire

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Brian,



I find the claim of those senior design engineers suspect, which in my opinion 
appears to be self-serving. And, referring to compliance people in that way 
reminds me that the rift between design and compliance still exists, even over 
many years. But if, in fact, those compliance people were not requiring those 
things, they would certainly not be effective and would not be taking their 
responsibility seriously or seriously enough. As a curiosity, what is the 
validity of what those design engineers are claiming? Or, is it just so much 
rhetoric?



So, I recommend that you hold fast against the hordes. In my opinion, I suggest 
you tell them either FUGETABOUTIT or  KWITCHEBELIAKIN. Maybe John could impart 
some British witticisms here.



Please note that my employer expects me to do my job effectively and my 
responsibilities at least include those processes you've outlined below. Please 
also find my comments below.



IHTH.



Best regards,



Ron



-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] receiving/approval processes under fire



The siege is underway. The senior design engineers claim that, after conference 
with colleagues in other companies, many of my conformity requirements have 
never been required by their compliance people.



Some of the receiving/approval processes that are in dispute:

- CoC from plastic component supplier that is not recognized molder.

I require [1]all major plastic parts be made only from recognized molders and 
[2]CofCs for all plastics to ensure plastic material traceability all of the 
time.

- processed wire tags from re-spoolers.

I, too, require this.

- document audits from suppliers having no agency recognition.

I, too, require this.

- labeling requirements for re-packaged chemicals.

We only use chemicals for manufacturing processing and those are outside of my 
control.

- EMC re-test for some changes of PCB layout.

I, too, require this for some changes, but only where a due diligent EMC 
analysis indicates retesting is necessary.

- update of CB report when values on some safety-critical components changed.

The CB cert/report is invaluable for multi-country safety approvals. But, it's 
not clear what those values are and if those values are not critical, then I 
would recommend having them removed.



The last one I slammed and immediately won the argument. Others may be more 
difficult. Yes, I know that UL and others publish papers on traceability 
requirements.



So none of you regulatory people do this??

Peshaw! (sp) Balderdash also works here.



Brian



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Re: [PSES] receiving/approval processes under fire

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Brian,
I have to repeat Rich's sentiment below, Good luck. Hopefully, he/she will
have had some positive compliance exposure before the breaking in.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
Oconnell
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 12:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] receiving/approval processes under fire

Rich, Ron, John, et al,

Many thanks for the sanity check (not me, the process requirements). Reminds
me of (in another life) the boss's favorite retort: 'too many stupid people,
not enough napalm.' Where we were also taught to immediately assault
directly into an ambush. Intend to do that.

I have received many off-line replies that indicate their design engineers
had said the exact same thing to them. And just received another reply from
an agency engineer I have known  10 years. He says this he hears this stuff
all the time from eng dept at companies not having a compliance person -
Never had to do anything like this at any other company.

Time to go break in the new boss. This may hurt...

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Richard Nute
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:24 AM
To: 'John Woodgate'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] receiving/approval processes under fire

Mr. Woodgate suggests:

 What you do is make the design team leader *responsible*for the 
 compliance of the design. He/she doesn't do the tests but has to 
 understand the standards that apply enough to assess the test reports 
 and sign them off.

Absolutely!  I have successfully used this process for years!
My designers have been very complementary.

However, to do this, the compliance engineer must partner with the designer
so as to offer various alternatives that complement his design, not just a
one-size-fits-all.  And, you must take some risk with the certification
house so that your promises to the design engineer are fulfilled.  To do
this means you must also partner with the cert house at the same time to be
certain that the design is certifiable.

This means you join the design team in the very early stages of the design
and jointly agree with the design team as to a safety design strategy --
BEFORE the design is developed to a physical model.

This has another advantage:  the very first prototypes comply with the
requirements, and can be used for certification.
This means that the certification timetable is not in the critical path to
project completion.

Good luck!
Rich

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Re: [PSES] Shipping into Europe - Basic question

[Ron Pickard]

To all,
The key rests with the requirements of the EMC Directive and in its guidance 
document in that if this device could be considered as a finished assembly 
(apparatus) or not and if it is intended to be put on the market or placed into 
service (made available to the end user) or not. 

As Martin has indicated, this particular device is not a finished assembly and 
is not intended to be made available to the end user, therefore it shouldn't 
need to comply with the EMC Directive. The integrated system, in which this 
component will be installed, however must of course comply with whatever EU 
directives apply to that system.

However, that all changes at the moment that this component is put on the 
market or put into service for end user use, in which this device would then be 
considered as an apparatus no matter what its intended application is. I make 
this point as Martin has not made it clear if this device is also or will be 
also put on the market or put into service for end user use. If it is, then 
Martin has no choice but to comply with the EMC directive (CE mark this device) 
regardless of its intended application. Martin, please advise.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original Message-
From: Martin E. Cormier [mailto:mcorm...@matrox.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:17 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Shipping into Europe - Basic question

Oh!  This is getting interesting...

It was the exact pupose of my original question.  We know that our regular 
products, i.e. the ones that may be put directly into market, have to be CE 
marked.  But in this case, we would ship our add-in boards as components, only 
to a manufacturer/integrator.  My understanding, up to now, was that in that 
case, the final manufacturer is responsible of declaring its product compliant. 
 He would be putting the CE marking on the complete product.  But do the add-in 
boards, here sold strickly B2B as components, need to have the CE marking to 
pass customs inspection when entering Europe?

Martin

On 2012-03-28 12:51 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote:
 A PC add-in board is just one of the examples that need ce-mark. I 
 hope you were just kiddin 

 Gert Gremmen

 -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
 Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Martin E. 
 Cormier
 Verzonden: woensdag 28 maart 2012 16:50
 Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org
 Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Shipping into Europe - Basic question

 Thanks to everyone for their inputs, and they confirm the feeling I 
 had.  It just seems scary to me to try and pass customs with a pallet 
 of PC Add-in boards that don't bear the CE logo.

 The products are not in a seperate housing, but could be compared to 
 graphics adapters.  They will not be going to the end users directly, 
 only to a European manfuacturer/integrator.

 Thanks again, and have a great day.

 Martin

 On 2012-03-28 8:39 AM, Martin E. Cormier wrote:
 Hello everyone,

 This will seem to many as a very basic question, but I am having a 
 hard time finding clear information on this:

 If a non-European manufacturer wants to ship products to Europe, 
 exclusively to another manufacturer/integrator, who will then put the 
 products onto the market, after integrating them in a complete system 
 that is CE marked, do the non-European products need to be CE-marked 
 before first entering Europe?

 Thanks for your comments,

 Martin

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Re: [PSES] SAA certification required to ship Australia?

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Kevin,
Please confirm that this new scheme applies only to household type equipment 
that is designed, or marketed as suitable for household, personal or similar 
use.

If that is the case, what consideration has the ACMA given to non-household 
type equipment that is only marketed B2B? If so, does the new EESS requirements 
apply to B2B products, or not? Would then the ACMA marking requirements still 
only apply to non-household products without EESS concern? Please advise.

I look forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Ron
(Please note my new email address, rpick...@equinoxpayments.com)

From: Kevin Richardson [mailto:kevin.richard...@ieee.org]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:30 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SAA certification required to ship Australia?

Hello Robert,


1.Yes the EESS only covers household type equipment.  In-scope equipment is 
defined as follows.
All new electrical equipment with a rated voltage of:
a) greater than 50V AC RMS or 120V ripple-free DC; and
b) less than 1000V AC RMS or 1500V ripple-free DC,
that is designed, or marketed as suitable for household, personal or similar 
use.

2.It is correct suppliers currently registered on the ACMA database have 3 
years from the commencement date (scheduled for 01 Jul 12) to register on the 
EESS database BUT they also have 3 years from the commencement date to move to 
the RCM on their product.  Product already labelled with the A-Tick or C-Tick 
and sitting in stock will be allowed to be supplied but obviously the supplier 
will need to be able to demonstrate the equipment was indeed in stock prior 
to the close of (i.e. scheduled for 30 Jun 15).  This means that any product 
that has the label applied after 30 Jun 15 cannot be supplied.


Best regards,
Kevin Richardson
Stanimore Pty Limited
Compliance Advice  Solutions for Technology
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services)
Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070)
Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639)
Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620)
Email:kevin.richard...@stanimore.commailto:kevin.richard...@stanimore.com 
   orkevin.richard...@ieee.orgmailto:kevin.richard...@ieee.org
URL: www.stanimore.comhttp://www.stanimore.com
Confidentiality
This material (this email including all attachments) may contain confidential 
and/or privileged information intended to be read or used by the addressees 
only.  If you are not one of the intended recipients or you have received this 
material in error, any copying, disclosure, distribution, use of or reliance 
upon this material is prohibited.  Please immediately notify Stanimore Pty 
Limited and delete/destroy all copies (electronic and hardcopy) of this email 
and all attachments.  While the sender tries to ensure the accuracy of the 
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any actions taken as a result of receiving this material or for any consequence 
of its use.

From: rehel...@mmm.commailto:rehel...@mmm.com 
[mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]mailto:[mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]
Sent: Monday, 19 March 2012 11:20 PM
To: Kevin Richardson
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] SAA certification required to ship Australia?

Kevin, two questions:

1. What is the scope of the EESS? Does it only cover household equipment?

2. Current Suppliers (those already on ACMA's supplier ID database) have 3 
years to register on the EESS database but starting on 1 July 2012 all products 
entering
Australia must have the single RCM mark, right?

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel: 651-778-6336
Fax: 651-778-6252
=




From:Kevin Richardson 
kevin.richard...@ieee.orgmailto:kevin.richard...@ieee.org
To:'Christopher' cksal...@yahoo.commailto:cksal...@yahoo.com, 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:03/15/2012 06:24 PM
Subject:RE: [PSES] SAA certification required to ship Australia?
Sent by:emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org




Hi Christopher,

As Brian O'Connell said, SAA Certification is not a regulatory requirement.

The external power supply, as Ron Pickard said, would need:
*An electrical safety Certificate of Approval;
*To comply with EMC regulations; and
*To comply Australian MEPS requirements and be registered  on the MEPS 
database.

The WiFi device would need to comply with both radiocommunications regulations 
applicable to any radio device supplied to the market, i.e. the Australian  
Radiocommunications Labelling Notice (RLN), plus radio licensing requirements.

Providing this is a stand-alone WiFi device (i.e. its sole purpose in life is 
to transmit and receive WiFi) then EMC regulations would not apply. If it has 
other capability as well it would be required to comply while

Re: [PSES] SAA certification required to ship Australia?

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Christopher,

On the surface of your request, I would have to say no. However, the ACMA's 
C-Tick requirements would certainly apply. Also, the external power supply you 
mentioned must be compliant with C-Tick and the SAA's RCM requirements along 
with being MEPS compliant for energy efficiency. Please note that this is a 
very brief answer to your question.

Also, please note that the ACMA is imposing new requirements effective 
1-Jul-2012 that were discussed at length very recently on this forum.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron
(Please note my new email address, rpick...@equinoxpayments.com)

From: Christopher [mailto:cksal...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 10:47 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] SAA certification required to ship Australia?


Folks,

Does a 802.11 wifi product require a SAA certification to ship our products to 
Australia or New Zealand?
We do not manufacturer the 12Vdc wall mount adapter.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Christopher
-


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Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Martin,

 

Thank you for the detailed brief summary. Does anyone know if the ACMA
expects this to be in place and functioning by their effectivity date or
will it be delayed. Have you heard if there any expectation or rumblings
from the ACMA that this will be delayed?

 

Also, if Sergei German is still at Austest, tell him I said hi.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Martin
Garwood
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:14 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

 

Hi All,

 

I have put together a summary of the new Australian Electrical Safety System
(as of today) with details of compliance levels and documentation
requirements on our blog.

 

http://www.approvalsblog.com/?p=717

 

Regards,

Martin.

 

 

Martin Garwood

 

Austest Laboratories

Unit 2, 9 Packard Avenue,

Castle Hill, NSW 2154, Australia

Tel: +61 2 9680 9990 | Fax: +61 2 8850 3113

 http://www.austest.com.au/ www.austest.com.au  (Offices in Sydney,
Central Coast NSW, Melbourne, Adelaide)

 http://www.harvestlabs.com/ www.harvestlabs.com  (Auckland) 

 http://www.approvalspecialists.com/ www.approvalspecialists.com  (Global)

Local and Global Approvals News  http://www.approvalsblog.com/
www.approvalsblog.com

Austest Laboratories is 100% Australian Owned

 

-


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-

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Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Nick,

Full harmonization, not really. Currently for EMC and radio communication
products, the Australian C-tick mark with the Australian Supplier Code is
recognized in New Zealand. However for telecom products, New Zealand has the
formal Telepermit approval program with unique marking requirements, which
must be held by an in-country entity and is not recognized outside of New
Zealand. New Zealand, however, has its own C-tick marking scheme with the
New Zealand Supplier Code for radio communications products that is accepted
in Australia.

 

As you can see, there is some harmonization, but there will probably never
be full harmonization as Australia and New Zealand are independent sovereign
states.

 

I hope this brief reply answered your question.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Nick
Williams
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 5:30 PM
To: Ron Pickard
Cc: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; Kevin Richardson; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

 

Does it have to be an entity established in Australia, or will New Zealand
do?

 

I'm not clear if this is a full harmonisation of legislation between
Australian and NZ, a la the EU, or if certain national requirements remain. 

 

Nick. 

 

 

 

On 8 Mar 2012, at 23:42, Ron Pickard wrote:





Hi Brian,

I believe you're correct given the statement in the announcement.

 

Also, the ACMA will only assign a Supplier Code number to an in-country
entity that's established in Australia. Currently, an in-country entity
would have to apply to the ACMA for the number by using theapplication form
http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/main/lib310117/c01-application_for_per
mission_to_use_regulatory_marks.pdf  available online.

 

IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:46 PM
To: 'Kevin Richardson'; Ron Pickard; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

 

Many thanks to Ron and Kevin.

 

Have interpreted the announcement that current products that have a
representative and bear the 'c-tick' mark will not have to be registered and
bear RCM until June 2015. Correct?

 

Does the ACMA Supplier Code Number come from the representative, or does the
mfr have to apply for this number?

 

thanks,

Brian

 

-Original Message-

From:  mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org
mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of
Kevin Richardson

Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 2:11 PM

To: 'Ron Pickard';  mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

 

Hi Ron,

Just to clarify, as the announcement says, this is related to labelling and
does not mean any changes to technical requirements.

All importers of overseas product however, will now also have to register
on a national database., even if they already have been issued with an ACMA
Supplier Code Number.

The timing of the commencement of these new arrangements are to coincide
with the commencements of completely new electrical safety arrangements in
Australia and New Zealand, the EESS arrangements.  These will have very
significant impact, again, not so much on the technical requirements but on
the processes imposed on the suppliers of product into Australia or New
Zealand.

 

Best regards,

Kevin Richardson

Stanimore Pty Limited

Compliance Advice  Solutions for Technology
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services)

Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070)

Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639)

Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620)

Email: mailto:kevin.richard...@stanimore.com
kevin.richard...@stanimore.comor mailto:kevin.richard...@ieee.org
kevin.richard...@ieee.org

URL:  http://www.stanimore.com/ www.stanimore.com

 

From: Ron Pickard  mailto:[mailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com]
[mailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com]

Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2012 6:20 AM

To:  mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

To those that deal with Australian requirements, here's an ACMA announcement
that will be of interest. Please note that this will obviously affect all 3
labeling notices.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original message-

From: Technical Regulation Development Section 
mailto:single.m...@acma.gov.au single.m...@acma.gov.au

Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2012 03:16:10 GMT+00:00

Subject: Upcoming changes to the ACMA labelling arrangements

 

 

Announcement

Notice of upcoming changes to the ACMA labelling arrangements (RCM) The ACMA
is consolidating the three existing compliance marks (C-Tick, A-Tick and
RCM) into a single compliance mark-the RCM. This will indicate a device's

Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Bob,
It is not clear at this point if suppliers that are already registered will 
have to re-register or if the ACMA will batch input them, but I suspect that 
the ACMA will have their current supplier data uploaded into the new database. 
As before, registration to this new supplier registration program will only be 
possible for in-country entities.

The RCM mark is already an established mark for Australia and this announcement 
is expanding its scope. Go to http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_410297 
to read more about this mark and the new scheme. Details of the RCM mark itself 
are found at 
http://www.acma.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WEB/STANDARD/1001/pc=PC_1756. I would 
hope that the ACMA will offer artwork-ready graphics of the RCM mark soon like 
they have for the C-tick and A-tick marks.

Best regards,

Ron
(Please note my new email address, rpick...@equinoxpayments.com)

From: Robert Heller [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 7:24 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

Does someone from inside Australia have to re-register under the new system or 
can someone from outside do it?

What will the new label markings look like if C-tick and A-tick are going away? 
Is the Supplier Number still applied?

Bob Heller
3M Company
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel: 651-778-6336
Fax: 651-778-6252
=




From:Ron Pickard RPQ 
rpick...@rpqconsulting.commailto:rpick...@rpqconsulting.com
To:'Nick Williams' 
nick.willi...@conformance.co.ukmailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk
Cc:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:03/09/2012 07:59 AM
Subject:RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement
Sent by:emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org




Hi Nick,
Full harmonization, not really. Currently for EMC and radio communication 
products, the Australian C-tick mark with the Australian Supplier Code is 
recognized in New Zealand. However for telecom products, New Zealand has the 
formal Telepermit approval program with unique marking requirements, which must 
be held by an in-country entity and is not recognized outside of New Zealand. 
New Zealand, however, has its own C-tick marking scheme with the New Zealand 
Supplier Code for radio communications products that is accepted in Australia.

As you can see, there is some harmonization, but there will probably never be 
full harmonization as Australia and New Zealand are independent sovereign 
states.

I hope this brief reply answered your question.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard

From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On 
Behalf Of Nick Williams
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 5:30 PM
To: Ron Pickard
Cc: oconne...@tamuracorp.commailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com; Kevin 
Richardson; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

Does it have to be an entity established in Australia, or will New Zealand do?

I'm not clear if this is a full harmonisation of legislation between Australian 
and NZ, a la the EU, or if certain national requirements remain.

Nick.



On 8 Mar 2012, at 23:42, Ron Pickard wrote:


Hi Brian,
I believe you're correct given the statement in the announcement.

Also, the ACMA will only assign a Supplier Code number to an in-country entity 
that's established in Australia. Currently, an in-country entity would have to 
apply to the ACMA for the number by using theapplication 
formhttp://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/main/lib310117/c01-application_for_permission_to_use_regulatory_marks.pdf
 available online.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell 
[mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]mailto:[mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:46 PM
To: 'Kevin Richardson'; Ron Pickard; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

Many thanks to Ron and Kevin.

Have interpreted the announcement that current products that have a 
representative and bear the 'c-tick' mark will not have to be registered and 
bear RCM until June 2015. Correct?

Does the ACMA Supplier Code Number come from the representative, or does the 
mfr have to apply for this number?

thanks,
Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kevin 
Richardson
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 2:11 PM
To: 'Ron Pickard'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

Hi Ron,
Just to clarify, as the announcement says, this is related to labelling and 
does not mean any changes to technical requirements.
All importers of overseas product however

Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

[Ron Pickard]

Yup, you can tell it's Friday, alright.

Great quote from Dark Helmet, in the age where raspberries are weapons and air 
is canned.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 12:21 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

The true power of the galactic empire is back - all hail co-emperors Page and 
Brin.

Perhaps the IEEE should lobby for special economic envoys to promulgate a 
standard set of standardization standards. All nation states should adopt 
scoped IEC standards and publish national differences for 'universal' TRFs.

Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
 -- Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

Three standards for the IECEE CTL under the test hoods, Seven for the CISPR in 
their rooms of iron, Nine for mortal compliance engineers doomed to 
frustration, One for the barrister on his dark throne In the Land of Courts 
where the Shadows lie.
One directive to rule them all, One directive to find them, One directive to 
bring them all and in the Legal Confusion bind them In the Land of Courts where 
the Shadows lie.


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 6:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

In message 03f801ccfdfc$1a734690$4f59d3b0$@rpqconsulting.com, dated Fri, 9 
Mar 2012, Ron Pickard RPQ rpick...@rpqconsulting.com writes:

As you can see, there is some harmonization, but there will probably 
never be full harmonization as Australia and New Zealand are 
independent sovereign states.

Bring back the Empire, I say! Stamp out all this unnecessary diversity!
Eliminate the need for compliance consultants! Please ignore that last one. (;-)
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John 
Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK If 'QWERTY' is an 
English keyboard, what language is 'WYSIWYG' for?

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Re: [PSES] North American Energy Efficiency regulations

[Ron Pickard RPQ]

Hi Ian,

 

For Canada, the NRCan http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/regulations/bulletins/16656
requirements for EPS are as you describe to be legal in Canada.

 

For the USA and to be brief, the EISA 2007
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_billsdo
cid=f:h6enr.txt.pdf  became mandatory in 2008, thus superseding the
voluntary Energy Star requirements for EPS. Refer to Section 301 for EPS.

 

IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Mcburney,
Ian
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 7:17 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: North American Energy Efficiency regulations

 

Dear Colleagues;

 

I require some clarification brought about by the Canadian NRCan energy
efficiency regulations for external power supplies (EPS).

The NRCan regulations appear to require mandatory third party verification
from a Standards Council of Canada (SCC) accredited certification
organisation.

The EPS must bear a verification mark indicating that it has been tested.
This mark may be an Energy star IV or a logo from an SCC accredited body.

On checking the Energy Star website to confirm the level IV limits I noticed
the Energy Star specifications for EPS were sunset on 31/12/2010. Please
accept my apologies for not keeping up to date; I know 2010 was a while ago.

My questions are;

is EPS verification by a SCC accredited organisation mandatory

and

with the sunset of the Energy Star specification for EPS, is the IV logo
still valid and if not what replaces it.

 

I realise this is not an EMC or safety question but my organisation
considers this a technical compliance issue which I suppose it is.

 

Many thanks in advance;

 

Ian McBurney

Design Engineer

 

Allen  Heath Ltd

Kernick Industrial Estate

Penryn, Cornwall

TR10 9LU

United Kingdom

 

+44 (0)1326 370121


ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com

www.allen-heath.com http://www.allen-heath.com/ 
 http://www.dmh-global.com/ A DMH Pro Company.

 

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Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Kevin,
Thanks for your clarifying email, although I received an exact copy of your 
reply two days ago. But, I just wanted to get the word out about it to get 
people aware of it. Until things settle out, I think this will be a good time 
for consultants. ☺

And from the announcement, it would appear that the commencement would be 
contingent  on the EESS and the database becoming active. Although the ACMA 
will probably announce it, do you have an idea when that database will become 
active?

Best regards,

Ron

From: Kevin Richardson [mailto:kevin.richard...@ieee.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:11 PM
To: Ron Pickard; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

Hi Ron,

Just to clarify, as the announcement says, this is related to labelling and 
does not mean any changes to technical requirements.
All importers of overseas product however, will now also have to “register” on 
a national database., even if they already have been issued with an ACMA 
Supplier Code Number.

The timing of the commencement of these new arrangements are to coincide with 
the commencements of completely new electrical safety arrangements in Australia 
and New Zealand, the EESS arrangements.  These will have very significant 
impact, again, not so much on the technical requirements but on the processes 
imposed on the suppliers of product into Australia or New Zealand.

Best regards,
Kevin Richardson
Stanimore Pty Limited
Compliance Advice  Solutions for Technology
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services)
Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070)
Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639)
Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620)
Email:kevin.richard...@stanimore.commailto:kevin.richard...@stanimore.com 
   orkevin.richard...@ieee.orgmailto:kevin.richard...@ieee.org
URL: www.stanimore.comhttp://www.stanimore.com
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From: Ron Pickard 
[mailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com]mailto:[mailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2012 6:20 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

To those that deal with Australian requirements, here’s an ACMA announcement 
that will be of interest. Please note that this will obviously affect all 3 
labeling notices.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original message-
From: Technical Regulation Development Section 
single.m...@acma.gov.aumailto:single.m...@acma.gov.au
Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2012 03:16:10 GMT+00:00
Subject: Upcoming changes to the ACMA labelling arrangements

[Australian Communications and Media Authority]
[Compliance and Labelling Arrangements updates]
Announcement

Notice of upcoming changes to the ACMA labelling arrangements (RCM)

The ACMA is consolidating the three existing compliance marks (C-Tick, A-Tick 
and RCM) into a single compliance mark—the RCM. This will indicate a device's 
compliance with all applicable ACMA regulatory arrangements—that is, for 
telecommunications, radiocommunications, EMC and EME—and with applicable State 
and Territory electrical equipment safety requirements.

The C-Tick and A-Tick compliance marks are to be phased out. A new database 
will be established for all supplier registration and the supplier 
identification requirements removed from the labelling notices.

The changes are currently proposed to start on 1 July 2012 to align with the 
proposed commencement date for the Electrical Regulatory Authorities Council 
(ERAC) Electrical Equipment Safety System (EESS). The commencement of the new 
ACMA arrangements may be postponed if there is a delay in the commencement of 
the EESS.

The current ACMA labelling arrangements apply until the commencement date.

From 1 July 2012, the new arrangements will only apply to new suppliers—those 
not registered on the ACMA supplier database.

From 1 July 2015, the arrangements will apply to all suppliers.

Further information is available on the ACMA website 
www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_410297https://promo-manager.server-secure.com/ch/1115/rvdjm7/482738/58e36gb0k.html.


This email was sent by Technical Regulation Development Section,
We

Re: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Brian,

I believe you're correct given the statement in the announcement.



Also, the ACMA will only assign a Supplier Code number to an in-country entity 
that's established in Australia. Currently, an in-country entity would have to 
apply to the ACMA for the number by using the application 
formhttp://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/main/lib310117/c01-application_for_permission_to_use_regulatory_marks.pdf
 available online.



IHTH.



Best regards,



Ron



-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:46 PM
To: 'Kevin Richardson'; Ron Pickard; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement



Many thanks to Ron and Kevin.



Have interpreted the announcement that current products that have a 
representative and bear the 'c-tick' mark will not have to be registered and 
bear RCM until June 2015. Correct?



Does the ACMA Supplier Code Number come from the representative, or does the 
mfr have to apply for this number?



thanks,

Brian



-Original Message-

From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kevin 
Richardson

Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 2:11 PM

To: 'Ron Pickard'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: RE: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement



Hi Ron,

Just to clarify, as the announcement says, this is related to labelling and 
does not mean any changes to technical requirements.

All importers of overseas product however, will now also have to “register” on 
a national database., even if they already have been issued with an ACMA 
Supplier Code Number.

The timing of the commencement of these new arrangements are to coincide with 
the commencements of completely new electrical safety arrangements in Australia 
and New Zealand, the EESS arrangements.  These will have very significant 
impact, again, not so much on the technical requirements but on the processes 
imposed on the suppliers of product into Australia or New Zealand.



Best regards,

Kevin Richardson

Stanimore Pty Limited

Compliance Advice  Solutions for Technology 
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services)

Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070)

Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639)

Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620)

Email:kevin.richard...@stanimore.commailto:kevin.richard...@stanimore.com 
   orkevin.richard...@ieee.orgmailto:kevin.richard...@ieee.org

URL: www.stanimore.comhttp://www.stanimore.com



From: Ron Pickard 
[mailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com]mailto:[mailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com]

Sent: Wednesday, 7 March 2012 6:20 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] ACMA labelling arrangement change announcement

To those that deal with Australian requirements, here’s an ACMA announcement 
that will be of interest. Please note that this will obviously affect all 3 
labeling notices.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original message-

From: Technical Regulation Development Section 
single.m...@acma.gov.aumailto:single.m...@acma.gov.au

Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2012 03:16:10 GMT+00:00

Subject: Upcoming changes to the ACMA labelling arrangements





Announcement

Notice of upcoming changes to the ACMA labelling arrangements (RCM) The ACMA is 
consolidating the three existing compliance marks (C-Tick, A-Tick and RCM) into 
a single compliance mark—the RCM. This will indicate a device's compliance with 
all applicable ACMA regulatory arrangements—that is, for telecommunications, 
radiocommunications, EMC and EME—and with applicable State and Territory 
electrical equipment safety requirements.

The C-Tick and A-Tick compliance marks are to be phased out. A new database 
will be established for all supplier registration and the supplier 
identification requirements removed from the labelling notices.

The changes are currently proposed to start on 1 July 2012 to align with the 
proposed commencement date for the Electrical Regulatory Authorities Council 
(ERAC) Electrical Equipment Safety System (EESS). The commencement of the new 
ACMA arrangements may be postponed if there is a delay in the commencement of 
the EESS.

The current ACMA labelling arrangements apply until the commencement date.

From 1 July 2012, the new arrangements will only apply to new suppliers—those 
not registered on the ACMA supplier database.

From 1 July 2015, the arrangements will apply to all suppliers.

Further information is available on the ACMA website 
www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_410297http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_410297.







-

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emc-p

Re: [PSES] Transient and Surge Test per ISO7637-2

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Steve,
The answer to your question resides in ISO 7637-2's title and scope as you've 
indicated, which specifically intend to have the tests described therein 
applied to road vehicles.

However, I believe the standard you're probably looking for to apply in an 
aircraft environment is RTCA DO-160 Environmental Conditions and Test 
Procedures for Airborne Equipment.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Steve O'Steen [mailto:steve.ost...@acstestlab.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:03 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Transient and Surge Test per ISO7637-2

All,
I was reviewing Table 2, Immunity Requirements for a DC Powered Device intended 
for use in commercial Aircraft.  This would integrated into the DC power system 
of the aircraft and not meant to be carried on and off the aircraft.  I assume 
that an aircraft meets the definition of a vehicle so I started down the path 
of applying the immunity requirements for Radio and ancillary equipment for 
vehicular use (e.g. mobile equipment).  This column requires among other tests, 
the Transients and Surge Test per ISO7637-2.  However ISO 7637-2 is specific in 
that its scope is limited to Road Vehicles.  To confirm, does this mean that 
although referenced in the product standard, these tests would not apply to 
vehicles other than road vehicles?

Best Regards,

Steve O'Steen
EMC Director
Advanced Compliance Solutions, Inc.
sost...@acstestlab.commailto:sost...@acstestlab.com
770-831-8048 ext. 210
www.acstestlab.comhttp://www.acstestlab.com/

ATLANTA, GA   -   MELBOURNE, FL   -   BOCA RATON, FL

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Re: [PSES] RoHS - an EU view

[Ron Pickard]

To all,
In addition and especially to those that are not yet aware, please note that 
the current RoHS Directive (2002/95/EC) is now in a state of transition to the 
recast RoHS Directive 
(2011/65/EUhttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:174:0088:0110:EN:PDF),
 which will become mandatory on 3-Jan-2013. In a nutshell, the main points of 
this revised directive includes new applied product categories, responsibility 
party definitions/obligations and that the CE marking will then apply, which 
means that by then all declarations of conformity will most likely need to be 
updated to include this directive along with a due diligent establishment of 
conformity.

IHTH.

Best regards,
Ron

From: iun...@servomex.com [mailto:iun...@servomex.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS - an EU view

Group,
Given that the adhesive is unlikely to contain lead, mercury, cadmium, 
hexavalent chromium, the question is: Does it contain either Polybrominated 
biphenyls (PBB), or Polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDE) at concentrations 
greater than 0.1% by weight of the homogeneous material? I understand that both 
are flame retardants and used in plastics. Further the need for mandatory EU 
RoHS (2002/95/EC) compliance only kicks in when the adhesive is used in certain 
types of electrical or electronic equipment.

Another issue to be considered as far as the EU and adhesives is associated 
with the impact of the REACH Regulations (1907/2006 (as amended)). Amongst 
other things, these regulations include lists of substances whose use in 
products and their manufacture is either restricted, or requires relevant 
information to be supplied to end users. REACH includes many more substances 
than the six in RoHS, and the restrictions/requirements are not limited to 
electrical and electronic equipment.

Regards

Ian Unwin

From:Kunde, Brian 
brian_ku...@lecotc.commailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com
To:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:09/02/2012 14:33
Subject:Re: [PSES] RoHS




Even if you tested the adhesive, since you do not have manufacturing control 
and the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to declare their adhesive RoHS 
compliant, you will not know if the adhesive will remain RoHS compliant. The 
manufacturer could change their adhesive without your knowledge. You would have 
to do lot sample testing of your production.

The Other Brian

From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On 
Behalf Of McInturff, Gary
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:34 PM
To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'
Subject: RoHS

We have an adhesive with no RoHS certs, Are there RoHS capable test labs in the 
US. I would presume there is some % of total content that is allowed if one 
only knew what materials are in the adhesive. Not my area just asking for a 
panicked compatriot. He's looking for any means at the moment to clear this gap.
Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer









Esterline Interface Technologies

Featuring
ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products



600 W. Wilbur Avenue
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Office:208-635-8306
Cell:  509 868 2279
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Attachments 

Re: [PSES] RoHS - an EU view

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Brian,
With the new RoHS directive's Annex I, I would find it difficult to ascertain 
any equipment (EEE) getting an exemption (please note item #11):



ANNEX I

Categories of EEE covered by this Directive

1. Large household appliances.

2. Small household appliances.

3. IT and telecommunications equipment.

4. Consumer equipment.

5. Lighting equipment.

6. Electrical and electronic tools.

7. Toys, leisure and sports equipment.

8. Medical devices.

9. Monitoring and control instruments including industrial monitoring and 
control instruments.

10. Automatic dispensers.
11. Other EEE not covered by any of the categories above.

However, Article 2 (Scope) pertains to EEE where exemptions will exist (some 
temporary).

Disclaimer: The statements below are my opinions only.
As far as your question about whether or not, I would suggest you obtain the 
advice of your legal counsel for obvious reasons. I can only suggest that you 
research this new directive and determine its particular requirements for the 
product/category to which you refer and then apply them. And if any of the 
exemptions from Annexes III and IV were to apply to components integral to your 
product, the balance of your product would likely still need to comply.

IHTH.

Best regards,
Ron

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS - an EU view

If you have a product who's category falls into an exemption for a few years 
after the 2013 date, do you still have to show the RoHS directive on your DOC 
starting 2013, but somehow state it is compliant via an exemption, or just 
don't mention it until it is required? What is the proper procedure in this 
case?

Thanks,
The Other Brian

From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ron 
Pickard
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 11:18 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] RoHS - an EU view

To all,
In addition and especially to those that are not yet aware, please note that 
the current RoHS Directive (2002/95/EC) is now in a state of transition to the 
recast RoHS Directive 
(2011/65/EUhttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:174:0088:0110:EN:PDF),
 which will become mandatory on 3-Jan-2013. In a nutshell, the main points of 
this revised directive includes new applied product categories, responsibility 
party definitions/obligations and that the CE marking will then apply, which 
means that by then all declarations of conformity will most likely need to be 
updated to include this directive along with a due diligent establishment of 
conformity.

IHTH.

Best regards,
Ron

From: iun...@servomex.commailto:iun...@servomex.com 
[mailto:iun...@servomex.com]mailto:[mailto:iun...@servomex.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS - an EU view

Group,
Given that the adhesive is unlikely to contain lead, mercury, cadmium, 
hexavalent chromium, the question is: Does it contain either Polybrominated 
biphenyls (PBB), or Polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDE) at concentrations 
greater than 0.1% by weight of the homogeneous material? I understand that both 
are flame retardants and used in plastics. Further the need for mandatory EU 
RoHS (2002/95/EC) compliance only kicks in when the adhesive is used in certain 
types of electrical or electronic equipment.

Another issue to be considered as far as the EU and adhesives is associated 
with the impact of the REACH Regulations (1907/2006 (as amended)). Amongst 
other things, these regulations include lists of substances whose use in 
products and their manufacture is either restricted, or requires relevant 
information to be supplied to end users. REACH includes many more substances 
than the six in RoHS, and the restrictions/requirements are not limited to 
electrical and electronic equipment.

Regards

Ian Unwin

From:Kunde, Brian 
brian_ku...@lecotc.commailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com
To:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:09/02/2012 14:33
Subject:Re: [PSES] RoHS




Even if you tested the adhesive, since you do not have manufacturing control 
and the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to declare their adhesive RoHS 
compliant, you will not know if the adhesive will remain RoHS compliant. The 
manufacturer could change their adhesive without your knowledge. You would have 
to do lot sample testing of your production.

The Other Brian

From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On 
Behalf Of McInturff, Gary
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:34 PM
To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'
Subject: RoHS

We have an adhesive with no RoHS certs, Are there RoHS capable test labs in the 
US. I would

Re: [PSES] Is this common knowledge - Electrical Ratings

[Ron Pickard]

Kevin et al,
In my experience over the years, 120-240V indicates a universal input whereby 
the power supply is intended to operate at any voltage within that boundary 
(with tolerancing of course). And, 120/240V indicates that a power supply is 
intended to operate at only those 2 voltages(again with tolerancing), whereby 
voltage selection is either automatic via built-in auto-ranging circuitry or 
manually via a selector switch. If selection is by selector switch, the user 
must be cautioned/informed of the use of the switch for the safe operation of 
the device.

And I totally agree that the average consumer has no idea about such things, 
hence the need for the seemingly ubiquitous universal input nowadays and 
especially for consumer products (my opinion).

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

-Original Message-
From: Jim Hulbert [mailto:jim.hulb...@pb.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 8:40 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Is this common knowledge - Electrical Ratings

It's probably common knowledge on THIS forum that 120-240V indicates an 
autoranging power supply and 120/240V indicates there is a switch setting for 
one or the other.  I'll bet the average consumer has no idea, though.

Jim Hulbert

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Robinson
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:20 AM
To: emc-pstc
Subject: Is this common knowledge - Electrical Ratings

Happy Friday everyone

I am asking a question that I already know the answer to, but I am trying to 
determine if it is common knowledge or if it was something that I picked up 
along the way and have always accepted as being true.

If you were to see a product with a marked electrical rating of
120/240 V and another product with a marked rating of 120-240V, what would be 
the difference between these two products?  Would a user or operator need to do 
anything special with one or both of these products to use it at 120V or 240V?

Thanks,

Kevin Robinson
OSHA

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Re: [PSES] 61000-4-2 3rd edition

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Gary,
I cannot find any 3rd Edition of IEC 61000-4-2 as published or in development 
on the IEC website under SC 77B I believe (if anyone knows differently, please 
let us know). As such, you might want to validate the 3rd Edition requirement 
from your customer.

Also, most regulatory-based immunity standards that I am familiar have ESD 
requirements of up to 4kV/8kV, while IEC 60601-1-2, 2nd Edition (latest that I 
have) has ESD requirements of up to 6kV/8kV. And, the much higher ESD threshold 
requirements as you've indicated generally originate from specific industry or 
customer requirements. So, those higher ESD thresholds are quite likely not 
regulatory requirements, but if anyone knows if the ESD requirements from IEC 
60601-1-2, 3rd Edition, please let us know. You might want to verify these 
thresholds from your customer.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 61000-4-2 3rd edition

I'm trying to track down a customer requirement for a piece of medical gear and 
apparently I'm a revision behind. They have a requirement for 15 and 30 kV air 
and contact discharge and they reference the 3rd edition standard. My current 
standard doesn't have levels that go that high. Normally I would look at 
60601-2  medical electrical equipment EMC compatibility But it only 
requires 6 and 8kV.

The standard is going through all the time consuming purchase request channels, 
until then can someone with the 3rd edition help me understand when the 15 and 
30kV is required. The device itself is used in patient monitoring and could be 
used in an operating theater.

We'll meet their requirements I'm just trying to figure out the paper trail 
that would lead them to that requirement, could be nothing more than a desired 
goal but I would like to understand it with your help

Thanks


Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer








Esterline Interface Technologies

Featuring
ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products



600 W. Wilbur Avenue
Coeur d'Alene, ID  83815-9496
Office:208-635-8306
Cell:  509 868 2279
Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238
gary.mcintu...@esterline.commailto:brian.s...@esterline.com


www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologieshttp://www.esterline.com/advancedinput

Technology, Innovation, Performance...



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[PSES] FW: 61000-4-2 3rd edition

[Ron Pickard]

Forwarding from Dave Osborn. Find below some ESD developments associated with 
IEC 60601-1-2, 3rd and 4th Editions.

Dave, thanks for that info.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Osborn, Dave [mailto:dave.osb...@philips.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:51 AM
To: Ron Pickard; McInturff, Gary
Subject: RE: 61000-4-2 3rd edition

Hi Ron,

Feel free to post to the listserve. I am registered via by ieee alias, so I 
can't post

3rd edition of IEC 60601-1-2 has:
±2, 4  8 kV air
±2, 4  6 kV contact

There is a 4th edition under development, the most recent draft has:
± 8 kV contact
± 2 kV, ± 4 kV, ± 8 kV, ± 15 kV air

Best regards,

Dave Osborn
Sr. Manager, International Standards  Regulations
Global Government Affairs, Regulations  Standards
Philips Healthcare

3000 Minuteman Road, Bldg 4, MS0135
Andover, MA 01810-1099  USA
PH-158 3178
Tel: +1 978 659 3178
Mob: +1 781 354 4798
Fax: +1 978 683 6337
E-mail: dave.osb...@philips.commailto:dave.osb...@philips.com

The information contained in this message is confidential and may be legally 
privileged. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, or 
reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the 
intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all 
copies of the original message.



From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]mailto:[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ron 
Pickard
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 11:44 AM
To: McInturff, Gary
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: 61000-4-2 3rd edition

Hi Gary,
I cannot find any 3rd Edition of IEC 61000-4-2 as published or in development 
on the IEC website under SC 77B I believe (if anyone knows differently, please 
let us know). As such, you might want to validate the 3rd Edition requirement 
from your customer.

Also, most regulatory-based immunity standards that I am familiar have ESD 
requirements of up to 4kV/8kV, while IEC 60601-1-2, 2nd Edition (latest that I 
have) has ESD requirements of up to 6kV/8kV. And, the much higher ESD threshold 
requirements as you've indicated generally originate from specific industry or 
customer requirements. So, those higher ESD thresholds are quite likely not 
regulatory requirements, but if anyone knows if the ESD requirements from IEC 
60601-1-2, 3rd Edition, please let us know. You might want to verify these 
thresholds from your customer.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: McInturff, Gary 
[mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]mailto:[mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 61000-4-2 3rd edition

I'm trying to track down a customer requirement for a piece of medical gear and 
apparently I'm a revision behind. They have a requirement for 15 and 30 kV air 
and contact discharge and they reference the 3rd edition standard. My current 
standard doesn't have levels that go that high. Normally I would look at 
60601-2  medical electrical equipment EMC compatibility But it only 
requires 6 and 8kV.

The standard is going through all the time consuming purchase request channels, 
until then can someone with the 3rd edition help me understand when the 15 and 
30kV is required. The device itself is used in patient monitoring and could be 
used in an operating theater.

We'll meet their requirements I'm just trying to figure out the paper trail 
that would lead them to that requirement, could be nothing more than a desired 
goal but I would like to understand it with your help

Thanks


Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer








Esterline Interface Technologies

Featuring
ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products



600 W. Wilbur Avenue
Coeur d'Alene, ID  83815-9496
Office:208-635-8306
Cell:  509 868 2279
Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238
gary.mcintu...@esterline.commailto:brian.s...@esterline.com


www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologieshttp://www.esterline.com/advancedinput

Technology, Innovation, Performance...



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Re: [PSES] Experts and Wisdom

[Ron Pickard]

From my archives:

I look to the future because that's where I'm going to spend the rest of my 
life. - George Burns

'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all 
doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

You don't get anything clean without getting something else dirty. - Cecil 
Baxter

Once the game is over, the King and the pawn go back in the same box. - Unknown

Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark 
Twain

If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything. - Mark Twain

And finally from a famous descendant of mine (fictional anyway):
Things are only impossible until they're not. Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek)

Best regards,

Ron
-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 9:47 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Experts and Wisdom

I am pathetic - have a database of 'wise' quotes populated by a custom web 
crawler - filled mostly from mathematicians, Bugs Bunny, and George Carlin.
I view the concepts of 'expertise' and 'wisdom' as alien to humanity at 
anything above the tribal organizational level. Some favorites follow.

Wisdom:
One's first step in wisdom is to question everything - and one's last is to 
come to terms with everything.
  - Georg C. Lichtenberg
It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.
  - Carl Sagan
You know the good part about all those executions in Texas? Fewer Texans.
  - George Carlin

Expertise:
The way I run this thing you'd think I knew something about it. 
  - Bugs Bunny
I recently went to a new doctor and noticed he was located in something called 
the Professional Building. I felt better right away.
  - George Carlin
http://xkcd.com/932/
http://xkcd.com/451/

And finaly, the relationship between expertise and wisdom:
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens..
  - Jimi Hendrix
The citation said that I had risen to a level of expertise, but have since 
been wise enough to stay on my ass.
  - GnySgt S.A. Scott, USMC

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[PSES] A compliance archival query

[Ron Pickard]

Happy New Year to all of you and I hope that this new year finds itself to be 
rewarding an prosperous for us all.

And embarking into the new year, I will be looking into ways to improve my 
compliance folder and record archival and retrieval system. At this point in 
time I do not as yet know if this will involve modifying or upgrading the 
system (SharePoint) or replacing it with something else. To that end I would 
appreciate (and other group members may also find this info beneficial) if 
anyone is willing to share what overall systems they're using (canned, custom 
or home grown) and possibly recommend any along with experiences they've had 
with them (pro or con).

If agreeable, I will tabulate the feedback and provide it back to the group.

I look forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Ron


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[PSES] New material declaration standard

[Ron Pickard]

The IEC has just published the FDIS of IEC 62474 ed1 under its Safety 
classification, which is now out for vote until 3-Feb-2012.

From this standard's introduction:
---
The electrotechnical industry tracks and declares specific information about 
the material composition of its products for compliance and environmentally 
conscious design requirements. The electrotechnical industry needs to gather 
information about the composition of products and product parts that are 
purchased from suppliers for incorporation into their products. Currently 
material declarations are driven by individual product manufacturer's 
specifications and there is no internationally accepted standardization. This 
results in economic inefficiencies. To simplify requirements across the supply 
chain and to improve economic efficiencies, it is necessary to standardize the 
exchange of material composition data and provide requirements for material 
declarations. This International Standard benefits the electrotechnical 
industry by establishing requirements for reporting of substances and 
materials, standardizing protocols, and facilitating transfer and processing of 
data.
---

Does anyone have any idea how well this standard will be accepted and/or 
adopted once it's formally published? And if so, please provide details if 
known.

I look forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Ron


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Re: [PSES] Experts and Wisdom

[Ron Pickard]

I think this one fits nicely.

Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.

Best regards,
Ron Pickard
Sent from my Blackberry

From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 01:22 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Experts and Wisdom

“Judgment comes from experience.  Experience comes from poor judgment.”   
Robert E. Lee

Ghery S. Pettit

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Doug Powell
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:44 AM
To: EMC-PSTC
Subject: Experts and Wisdom



All,

With some folks retiring and others I know are changing careers (recently 
termed “retooling”), I had some pensive thoughts about losing many folks who 
are experts in the field or those with great wisdom.  So it occurs to me, I 
would like to hear your favorite quotes on Wisdom and Experts.  I’ll prime the 
pump with a few I know.

  *   Wisdom is the “stuff” you get immediately after you need it most.
  *   An expert is one who has already made all of the necessary mistakes.
  *   ex·pert/ˈekspərt/  Noun: compound word  “ex + spurt”.  EX meaning “has 
been”, SPURT meaning a “drip under pressure”, therefore a “Has been drip under 
pressure!”
thanks, –doug

Douglas E Powell
Independent Compliance Engineering
doug...@gmail.commailto:doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
-


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Re: [PSES] Safety requirements for batteries in Mobile Phones

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Scott,
Thank you for your reply and just as you pointed out that Peter M indicated 
requirements vary by country, I also had indicated that (see below). Thank you 
for your offer, but the battery pack manufacturers take care of that for us. 
And, thank you for that link.

Charlie,
Since I sent my reply, I thought of a couple other transportation  waste 
requirements for batteries that may be of use to you, which are:
- EU: 2006/66/EC Battery  Accumulator Waste Directive
- US DOT: 49 CFR Parts 171, 172, 173, and 175 - Hazardous Materials; 
Transportation of Lithium Batteries; Final Rule

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Scott GRIGGS [mailto:griggs_sc...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 8:08 AM
To: Ron Pickard; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements for batteries in Mobile Phones

Hi Ron,

Peter M had pointed out that regulatory requirements vary by country.   If you 
need help with Brazil, I can help you arrange testing and get approvals from 
ANATEL.  Brazil is one of the fastest growing mobile phone markets in the 
world.  Most models gain Brazil approvals.

If your batteries pass IEC 62133, and UN 38.3 you are going to have a smooth 
experience.

Here is a company in USA that can help you on global compliance.  
http://www.energy-assurance.com/

Please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Scott Griggs


+55 (19) 8314 3822 mobile
+1 (224) 999 0441 home

griggs_sc...@yahoo.commailto:griggs_sc...@yahoo.com


From: Ron Pickard 
rpick...@equinoxpayments.commailto:rpick...@equinoxpayments.com
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements for batteries in Mobile Phones
Hi Charile,

What does “typical” mean for this battery? Please note that certification 
requirements for that battery will vary a bit with the actual device 
application and the construction of that battery.

For the USA, please note that UL 1642 pertains mostly to individual battery 
cells. UL 2054 would be the safety standard for battery packs here in the US. 
Also if that battery is targeted for the cellular telephone market in the US, 
then be aware that CTIA certification (IEEE 1725) will probably be required 
(also includes the charger or external power supply) if PTCRB certification is 
pursued.

For international, IEC 62133 should suffice, but please note that for the EU, 
EN 62133 might need to be complied with although it is not included in the 
RTTED harmonized standards list. Please note that some countries have their 
own unique requirements for mobile device batteries.

And, IATA requirements are indeed mandatory and can generally be satisfied with 
successful UN T1-T8 testing.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Charlie Blackham 
[mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]mailto:[mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 11:48 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Safety requirements for batteries in Mobile Phones

Group.

I have a typical Li-Ion 3.7V 1.4 Ah mobile phone battery, and am trying to 
identify compulsory and recommended safety requirements . . . .

“IATA Guidance Document Transport of Lithium Metal and Lithium Ion Batteries 
(2010)” appears compulsory

Are UL1642 / IEC62133 recommended / optional / required under certain 
circumstances?

Anything else required.

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.comhttp://www.sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

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Re: [PSES] Safety requirements for batteries in Mobile Phones

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Charile,

What does typical mean for this battery? Please note that certification 
requirements for that battery will vary a bit with the actual device 
application and the construction of that battery.

For the USA, please note that UL 1642 pertains mostly to individual battery 
cells. UL 2054 would be the safety standard for battery packs here in the US. 
Also if that battery is targeted for the cellular telephone market in the US, 
then be aware that CTIA certification (IEEE 1725) will probably be required 
(also includes the charger or external power supply) if PTCRB certification is 
pursued.

For international, IEC 62133 should suffice, but please note that for the EU, 
EN 62133 might need to be complied with although it is not included in the 
RTTED harmonized standards list. Please note that some countries have their 
own unique requirements for mobile device batteries.

And, IATA requirements are indeed mandatory and can generally be satisfied with 
successful UN T1-T8 testing.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 11:48 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Safety requirements for batteries in Mobile Phones

Group.

I have a typical Li-Ion 3.7V 1.4 Ah mobile phone battery, and am trying to 
identify compulsory and recommended safety requirements . . . .

IATA Guidance Document Transport of Lithium Metal and Lithium Ion Batteries 
(2010) appears compulsory

Are UL1642 / IEC62133 recommended / optional / required under certain 
circumstances?

Anything else required.

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: www.sulisconsultants.comhttp://www.sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

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Re: [PSES] NOM-121 approved labs

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Chuck,
Yes UL/CCS has TCB and EU NB status and possibly others. CCS (Compliance 
Certification Services) was purchased by UL around the beginning of 2010. NIST 
reports their accreditations at http://ts.nist.gov/standards/scopes/2000650.htm.

DISCLAIMER: Information only. This is not a plug for UL and/or CCS in any way.

Best regards,

Ron

From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 11:56 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] NOM-121 approved labs

Peter – Just for my clarification.
Are you saying that UL can do wireless certs?

Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications
(w) 303-706-5467
(c) 303-204-2974
(t) 3032042...@vtext.commailto:3032042...@vtext.com
(e) charles.gra...@echostar.commailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com
(e2) chasgra...@gmail.commailto:chasgra...@gmail.com

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Peter Merguerian
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 10:31 PM
To: Gartman, Richard
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: NOM-121 approved labs

Richard,

UL CCS, Cetecom and NTS (soon to be certified) - all three California labs

Peter Merguerian
pe...@goglobalcompliance.commailto:pe...@goglobalcompliance.com
(408) 931-3303
www.goglobalcompliance.comhttp://www.goglobalcompliance.com


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 6, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Gartman, Richard 
rgart...@ti.commailto:rgart...@ti.com wrote:
Opportunity to share:

Regarding NOM-121, what labs are have been approved?
I am looking for the names of labs that could do Wi-Fi product testing that is 
acceptable to COFETEL.

Regards
W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP
Product Stewardship Manager
Texas Instruments, Education Technology
12500 TI Boulevard, Dallas, TX 75243
Office: 972-917-1636   Email: 
rgart...@ti.commailto:rgart...@ti.com
www.education.ti.com/us/productstewardshiphttp://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship
www.ti.com/ccrhttp://www.ti.com/ccr
Please consider the environment before printing this email. There is only one 
earth - don't waste it.http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship
Car racing also prepares you for and expects you to live in the moment – 
perspective comes before and after the race. Preparation equals 
success.http://education.ti.com/us/productstewardship
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Proposed RoHSD query

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

I’ve not been involved with the ROHS directive for a while, but am again
being steered toward it.

 

To that end, I have been reviewing the proposed RoHS Directive materials from
Europa’s website and have a couple of questions about it.

 

The proposed directive makes several references to “harmonized standards”,
not present in the current directive. Will there be a harmonized standards
list such as is already in place for other various directives? Does anyone at
present know what those harmonized standards will be?

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ 

www.linkedin.com/in/RonPickard

 

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RE: Electrical product recall request

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Ed,

 

It’s nice to hear from you again. See my comments following your questions
below. Let me know if you agree or not or have additional questions. I’m
hoping others will chime in and give their opinions, too. If not, that’s ok,
too.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ 

www.linkedin.com/in/RonPickard



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Price, Edward
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:34 AM
To: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Electrical product recall  request





From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of 
Pickard, Ron
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:56 AM
To: Scott Xe
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Electrical product recall  request

Scott et al,

 

 Compliance engineering is a term to describe the engineering 
activities to
ensure that products conform to these regulations.  In that aspect, compliance
engineering does mimic the legal profession.

 

Ron Pickard 

 

Ron:

 

In companies where there is a specifically designated Compliance Engineer,
what do you see as the trend in the depth of knowledge of such an engineer? 

[RP] Engineers tend to focus over time into a specific area of design,
manufacturing, quality, reliability, etc. engineering and then specialize into
a specific discipline in those areas. Compliance engineers are not really that
different in that they specialize mainly in the design/test engineering
discipline in the specific areas of product safety, EMC, RF, telecom, RoHS,
WEEE, etc, and adding various country requirements as another dimension to
this mix, but recent harmonization has lightened  that aspect a bit. And, I
see the depth of knowledge being dependent on the compliance engineer’s
committed/designated area(s) of responsibility (typically the more areas, the
less depth), the compliance engineer’s ability(ies), and the how much the
employer’s willing to fund the compliance function internally including the
# of in-house compliance staff.

 

Does this person hold technical responsibility for issues of safety, EMC,
ROHS, etc, as you would expect of an engineer? Or is the scope so broad that
the person acts more like a manager or coordinator of other specialists
(designers and possibly outside vendors), more toward the lawyer end of the
scale?

[RP] This is how I see it. A typical design engineer is ultimately responsible
for his design and the inclusion of compliance (EMC and safety, etc.)
optimally into the design at an as early as possible stage. RoHS/WEEE involves
not just the product design, but the whole product
design/manufacturing/admin/etc process, including everything from procurement
to landfill avoidance. The compliance engineering function affects the whole
company and is [1] an engineering function to understand the technical issues,
design constraints, etc and introduce design change recommendations to ensure
compliance, [2] a management function so that internal and external
organizations are informed of the implications of non-compliance and that
compliant designs are developed, tested and manufactured to ensure continued
compliance on time and within budget (cost reduction efforts and unannounced
part substitutions can be nightmares), and [3] a consultancy function where
the compliance engineer works with internal organizations to provide needed
pertinent and up to date compliance information to ensure that those
applicable internal processes/functions provide for continued compliant
products. However, if I were to generalize, I would say that a compliance
engineer responsible for 1 or 2 disciplines (EMC  safety) would typically
have a high engineering/consultancy focus.  A compliance engineer responsible
for more that 2 disciplines would likely have a high
engineering/management/consultancy focus with a primary focus on management.

 

Maybe I was misspoken by stating that compliance engineering sometimes mimics
the legal profession. The compliance engineering function is focused on the
technical conformance side of the law, however the legal profession is focused
on the legal side of the law. Maybe there are multiple sides to the law. To a
lawyer, that could either be good fortune or a nightmare.

 

Regards,

 

Ed Price

ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com  WB6WSN

NARTE Certified EMC Engineer

Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab

Cubic Defense Applications

San Diego, CA  USA

858-505-2780

Military  Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty

 

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RE: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Grace et al,

 

The Japanese battery requirement and the pertinent November 20, 2008
information originate from METI’s Electrical Appliance and Material Safety
Law and can be obtained at their website:
http://www.meti.go.jp/english/policy/economy/consumer/pse/index.html.

 

IHTH those needing this information.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ 

www.linkedin.com/in/RonPickard

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:18 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960

 

Hi John,

 

Thank you very much.  We have several different types of batteries.  Lithium
battery is one of them.  I believe the Japanese requirement starting November
20, 2008 is for the lithium battery.

 

I assume the PSE mark required is the diamond one (not circle one).  Please
confirm.

 

Best regards,

Grace 

 

On 10/27/08, Tyra, John john_t...@bose.com wrote: 

 Hello Grace, If it is a Lithium battery then it does require a (PS)E mark by
November 10th what type of battery do you have?

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 2:05 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960

 


Thank you, Jody.

 

Do you know if PSE mark is required per Japan for the battery?
 

On 10/24/08, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com wrote: 

Grace,

 

N5 represents the number of parallel connected cells indicating it belongs to
the battery designation.

 

Best Regards, 

Jody Leber 
Program Manager 

jody.le...@motorola.com 
http://www.motorola.com/producttesting 

Motorola Product Testing Services 
1700 Belle Meade Court 
Lawrenceville, GA 30043 

770.338.3581  P 
404.387.1224  C 
847.761.3145  F 

 





From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace 
Lin
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:21 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Cell and Battery Designation in IEC 61960

 

Dear Members,

 

Can someone confirm the following Cell and battery designation under 
5.1 of
IEC 61960: 2003?

 

Battery shall be designated with the following form: 

N

1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 – N5 

Cells shall be designated with the following form: 

A

1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 



 

The Japanes JIS C8711: 2006 standard has the following designation:  

Battery shall be designated with the following form: 

A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4

Cells shall be designated with the following form: 

N1 A1 A2 A3 N2 / N3 / N4 –N5



 

Do I miss any amendment or correction to either standard?

 

Thank you and look forward to your help.

Best regards,

Grace

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RE: Pakistan requirements for telecom TTE?

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Joe,

 

You should be able to find what you’re looking for on/from the PAKISTAN
TELECOMMUNICATION AUTHORITY at www.pta.gov.pk http://www.pta.gov.pk/ . With
the short list of equipment needing to be type approved there, you might not
need to go through it, but you’ll need to consult with the PTA get any
updated info. Please note that that market was recently deregulated, but
licenses might still be quite expensive. However, you may know this already.

 

I’m not sure I answered your question, but IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Joe Randolph
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:38 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Pakistan requirements for telecom TTE?

 

Hello All:

I'm trying to determine what requirements Pakistan has for telecom terminal
equipment for safety, EMC, and telecom.  So far I have not been able to come
up with much.  Any insight would be much appreciated.





Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com/ 

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RE: South Africa CB

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Jim,

 

You will likely need to consult the CB Bulletin, which was very recently put
online. National differences, special conditions, etc details are available on
a subscription basis. The link is:

http://www.iec.ch/online_news/etech/arch_2008/etech_0408/ca_1.htm

 

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
RPQ Consulting
Glendale, AZ 85303
+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax
rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Goedderz, Jim
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:47 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: South Africa CB

 

You all know what it’s like trying to get something done in the final
minutes Friday. You forget to add critical data such as the standard is
60950-1.

Thank you again.

James Goedderz

Product Safety Engineer

Tyco/Sensormatic

561.912.6378

_
From: Goedderz, Jim
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 4:33 PM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: South Africa CB

Group,

Can anyone inform me if there are “National Deviations” to the CB scheme
for South Africa?

Our customer is asking for a CB report, and I see that SA is a CB member, but
I don’t have any list of national deviations.  

Thank you for your support.

James Goedderz

Product Safety Engineer

Tyco/Sensormatic

561.912.6378

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RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Richard,

 

IMHO, if the lithium batteries are user replaceable (such as a removable
battery pack), then they would need to be separately approved to UL 2054. I
say that because in my experience, UL has required it in past Listing
efforts of products with them. And, if this is a cell phone application,
please note that the CTIA has recently imposed requirements for lithium
batteries.

Supporting this, from UL2054's scope:

 

- These requirements cover portable primary (nonrechargeable) and secondary
(rechargeable) batteries for use as power sources in products. These
batteries consist of either a single electrochemical cell or two or more
cells connected in series, parallel, or both, that convert chemical energy
into electrical energy by chemical reaction.

- These requirements are intended to reduce the risk of fire or explosion
when batteries are used in a product. The proper use of these batteries in a
particular application is dependent on their use in a complete product that
complies with the requirements applicable to such a product.

- These requirements are intended to cover batteries for general use and do
not include the combination of the battery and the host product which are
covered by requirements in the host product

standard.

- These requirements are also intended to reduce the risk of injury to
persons due to fire or explosion when batteries are removed from a product
to be transported, stored, or discarded.

- These requirements do not cover the toxicity risk that results from the
ingestion of a battery or its contents, nor the risk of injury to persons
that occurs if a battery is cut open to provide access to its contents.

 

The battery manufacturer would quite likely be already aware of all of this.
They would be the one to approach for getting this work done.

 

Also, in addition to what Brian stated about shipping, the US and
international shipping authorities have specific testing and labeling
requirements for lithium batteries or products containing lithium batteries.
Testing involves the UN T1-T8 tests.

 

IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

7372 West Luke Avenue

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ 

 


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
O'Connell
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:21 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

 

The following are personal opinions only.

 

In general, conformity to the applicable standard is always

necessary; but not always 'required'. In any case, note that UL

1642 is scoped specifically for Li batteries

 

In particular, 'it depends'. Is the charger and end-use

installation a fire or shock hazard if a battery, dies a violent

death ? Is there any normal or abnormal operating condition in

the charger or the end-use install that could result in battery

damage/explosion/fire ?

 

Also, there are separate DOT requirements for the shipment of

some types of Lithium batteries.

 

luck,

Brian 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of

Gartman, Richard

Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:51 AM

To: emc-p...@ieee.org

Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

 

I am looking for when UL 2054 testing is necessary for

rechargeable lithium batteries?

 

Required on cell phone batteries?

Required on consumer electronic? 

 

All perspectives on rechargeable lithium batteries are welcome.

 

Thank you 

W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP

 

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RE: CCC processes

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Rich,

 

You might also want to visit www.ccc-us.com/index.html, which is in English
and provides a lot of useful CCC information.

 

IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

7372 West Luke Avenue

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com http://www.rpqconsulting.com/ 

 


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Don Gies
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:04 AM
To: 'Rich Nute'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: CCC processes

 

Hi Rich,

 

The US government has been very concerned with products exporting to China,

so they put together a very concise web page summarizing the CCC process:

 

http://www.mac.doc.gov/China/Docs/BusinessGuides/cccguide2.htm

 

It is in English, and it is a good launching pad to pertinent CCC sites.

 

Regards,

 

Don Gies, N.C.E

Senior Product Compliance Engineer

Alcatel-Lucent

Murray Hill, NJ  07974-0636 USA

 



From: Rich Nute [mailto:rn...@san.rr.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:29 PM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: CCC processes

 

Is there a good document (in English) on 

CCC processes?  How to do it?

 

Are there any agents in England who can 

assist or get CCC? 

 

 

Thanks for your help,

Richard Nute

San Diego

 

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RE: EMC Standards for Contactless Card Readers

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Craig,

 

Your friend will need to look at ETSI EN 300330.

 

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
RPQ Consulting
7372 West Luke Avenue
Glendale, AZ 85303
+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax
rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Petrie, Craig D
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:19 AM
To: IEEE EMC  SAFETY PSTC
Subject: EMC Standards for Contactless Card Readers

 

On behalf of a friend, I am enquiring about what EMC standards would be
applicable in Europe for a Contactless Card Reader operating at 13.56Mhz.  

Could anyone be kind enough to advise? 

Regards, 
Craig 

Craig Petrie, Product Safety Engineer, 
NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., 
3rd Floor East, Discovery Centre, 
3 Fulton Road, Dundee, Scotland. DD2 4SW 
E-Mail: craig.d.pet...@ncr.com 
Tel: +44(0)1382 592803 (direct) / 592609 (lab) 

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RE: UL60950 vs. IEC 60950

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Dave,

 

Technically speaking your subject line should’ve been UL60950-1 vs.
EN60950-1 given your query. Anyway, without going into detail you only have to
look at these standards to see the differences between them and from
IEC60950-1, in particular:

UL60950-1: Preface listing 6 types of deviations and Annexes NAA - NAE

EN60950-1: Annexes ZA - ZC

 

Actually, a CB Scheme investigation against IEC60950-1 addressing all national
deviations should be the basis of acceptance in both the US and the EU.

 

If you would like to discuss this further off-line, please let me know.

 

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
RPQ Consulting
7372 West Luke Avenue
Glendale, AZ 85303
+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax
rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
david.cole...@selex-comms.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:06 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: UL60950 vs. IEC 60950

 


Sorry if this has been asked before, but can anyone point me to a comparison
of these two standards, highlighting any significant differences? 

Is there any significant reason why compliance with UL60950 cannot be used to
show compliance with the LVD for CE marking? 

Any help appreciated, 

Best Regards,
Dave Coleman AIIRSM
SELEX Communications 

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RE: Safety regulations

[Ron Pickard, RPQ]

Hi Benoit,

 

You state that the built-in power supply is “fully listed and approved by UL
or CSA or ETL or any NRTL” (I’m not sure what that statement actually
means). Generally, such a power supply is not Listed, but is a Recognized
Component and as such it likely has Conditions of Acceptability associated
with the Recognition meaning that the power supply must have those conditions
addressed in the end system by the system manufacturer to satisfy those safety
concerns. 

 

I am a bit amazed that OSHA regulations haven’t been brought into this
discussion before this, but as a “card cage” type of product, is this
product intended to be marketed within the US workplace and is it not
considered to be a consumer product? If so, then OSHA regulations from 29CFR
Part 1910 Subpart S would apply. Regardless of circuit class and excerpt from
29CFR Part 1910 Subpart S (1910.399) specifically states:

 

“Acceptable. An installation or equipment is acceptable to the Assistant
Secretary of Labor, and approved within the meaning of this Subpart S:

(1) If it is accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise
determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory recognized
pursuant to § 1910.7; or

(2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally
recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines
to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a
State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing
occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code, and found in
compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in
this subpart; or

(3) With respect to custom-made equipment or related installations that are
designed, fabricated for, and intended for use by a particular customer, if it
is determined to be safe for its intended use by its manufacturer on the basis
of test data which the employer keeps and makes available for inspection to
the Assistant Secretary and his authorized representatives.”

 

So, if the “whole new product” is to be intended for the US workplace,
then any of the 3 conditions above must be applied. Marketing such a system
into the workplace without first being acceptable to OSHA could introduce
liability(ies) to the marketer/integrator. And, consumer products don’t need
to adhere to OSHA regulations, but it would be wise to exercise due diligence
in regard to this product’s safety to reduce any safety liabilities to the
user, integrator and/or marketer.

 

Please note that this is pure speculation (educated guess?) since there was
not enough information provided in your original product description to
formulate a sound response.

 

Comments?

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard
RPQ Consulting
7372 West Luke Avenue
Glendale, AZ 85303
+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax
rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Benoit Nadeau
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 6:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC
Subject: Safety regulations

 

Bonjour,

 

I’m much more fluent in EMC than safety and this is why I respectfully seek
advice in this matter.

 

I have a question coming from the designers and I’ve been looking in the US
regulations (the NEC mainly) to find the answer but I didn’t. I think this
is more like an interpretation than anything else.

 

So the question is:

 

If a PCB manufacturer buys a card cage that includes a fully listed power
supply (approved by UL or CSA or ETL or any NRTL), and stuff this cage with
his own PCBs (not listed) with no harmful external voltages or access to, and
resell this as a whole new product. Can he put that on the market without
having to re-list the new product as long as the markings on the power supply
are still visible from outside the box? 

 

For me this would be like having an external Power Supply that feeds very low
voltage to a box (like a laptop computer),

 

Thank you for the time you are going to take to answer this.

 

Regards,

 

 

==

Benoit Nadeau, ing. M.ing.

Gérant du Groupe Conformité (Conformity Group Manager)

Matrox

1055 boul. St-Régis

Dorval (Québec)

Canada H9P 2T4

Tél: (514) 822-6000 (2475)

FAX: (514) 822-6275

bnad...@matrox.com

www.matrox.com

==

 

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Re: Security Problem?

[Ron Pickard]

To all,

As I have just returned to my desk from a long Monday morning of internal
discussions and meetings,
I was shocked to see this string, and especially that I was being assumed to
be the culprit in this
matter. However, being diligent, I've looked into my sent folder and found
that I've sent only 4
email messages this morning, and they were all addressed to internal
recipients. I am at a complete
loss as to how this could have happened because [1]I did not send any such
email, [2]I am more
respectful that that, and [3]our corporate antivirus and spam filtering server
is top-rate and is
updated regularly and often.

In the interest of determining whether or not the email in question originated
from Hypercom, I have
requested our IT people to investigate it and to let me know what they find
out. If they find
anything, I will let the other admins know. And, as Rich stated, I believe
that the cause was that
my email address was probably hijacked somewhere/somehow.

Next, I want to apologize for whatever anxiety this may have caused to the
membership. But, it is
important to state that, in fact, I did not send the email in question and
would never send such an
email for any reason. Also, I find any email that has no title, no message and
had an attachment
(identifiable or not) highly suspicious and immediately delete it.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com


  
   
  ri...@sdd.hp.com
   
   To:   john...@itesafety.com
   
  08/09/2004 12:23 cc:   jim.bac...@paxar.com,
emc-p...@hypercom.com, d...@daveheald.com, emc_p...@symbol.com,
  PMrpick...@hypercom.com 
   
   Subject:  Re: Security Problem?
   
  
   



Hi Bob:

   I am not sure if this is a problem or not. The mail from RPickard
   [rpick...@hypercom.com] came with no title, no message and an attachment
   with an unidentifiable extension. It apparently did not set off virus
alarms
   in either my Norton antivirus or the IEEE filters, but I will not be
opening
   it without further information. Attachments violate the IEEE list rules.

We're looking into it.

Since Ron Pickard is one of administrators, we are
a bit embarrassed on this posting.  I'm quite sure
that Ron did not deliberately send this message,
which suggests that a virus sent the message.

The IEEE filters have been VERY GOOD at filtering
out viruses.  The IEEE filters have caught many
viruses, and, thus far, have not let one through.

I'm pleased to hear that your Norton antivirus
did not detect a virus, as that confirms the
effectiveness of the IEEE antivirus filters.

Attachments violate the emc-pstc rules, not the
IEEE listserver rules.  The Listserver will
forward attachments of less than 100K, although
we don't tell anyone.


Best regards,
Rich

CCC query

[Ron Pickard]

Hi to all,

To those that are familiar with the CCC approval process and regulatory
structure in China:

I was just asked if it is legally possible to import shipment(s) of products
into China w/o CCC
approval, particulary if a product falls under a product type identified in
the CCC catalog? I
personally would advise against it, but management would consider it as anyone
could well imagine. I
could not answer this question, so I'm putting it to the expertise of the
group. Is it legally
possible? Please note that we are currently beginning this approval process
and would appreciate
knowing of any options that might be available until formal CCC approval is
granted.

I look forward to your replies.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




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RE: FCC and Canada

[Ron Pickard]

David,

Bill is correct in that the technical testing requirements are accepted
according to Industry
Canada's (IC) EMCAB-3. However, official requirements and product marking
details are in IC's
ICES-003. These documents, and others, may be downloaded at:

ICES and others:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet
insmt-gst.nsf/vwGeneratedInterE/h_sf01375e.html

EMCAB:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet
insmt-gst.nsf/vwGeneratedInterE/h_sf06081e.html

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com



  

  bstu...@dlsemc.com  

  Sent by:  To:  
david.spr...@alexanderlynn.co.uk, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:   

  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  RE: FCC and
Canada   
  

  

  08/25/2003 08:31 AM 

  Please respond to   

  bstumpf 

  

  




David,
Industry Canada will accept FCC data for EMC testing of ITE.

 William M Stumpf
DLS Electronics
166 South Carter St.
Genoa City WI 53128
ph: 262-279-0210
fx: 262-279-3630
email: bstu...@dlsemc.com


  -Original Message-
  From: David Sproul [mailto:david.spr...@alexanderlynn.co.uk]
  Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:46 AM
  To: EMC-PSTC
  Subject: FW: FCC and Canada

  Dear Group,
  I apologise to for sending this out twice, but the copy of my original
message arrived back
  with no text.

  I hope the text will be included this time.

  Best regards,
  David Sproul.
  -Original Message-
  From: David Sproul [mailto:david.spr...@alexanderlynn.co.uk]
  Sent: 20 August 2003 11:27
  To: EMC-PSTC
  Subject: FCC and Canada

  Dear Group,
  Could some of somebody please remind me whether or not IT equipment
compliant with the FCC
  requirements for the US would also be eligible for sale to Canada, or
would we need to apply
  further CSA standards ?

  (The safety assessment has been done by UL.)

  Thanks to you all for your assistance,

  Best regards,
  David Sproul,











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Re: Clayton Pauls - Thanks all, obviously I messed up and Paul was correct

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Gary,

Don't worry too much about it. After all, I've been there and done that, too.
Misinterpretation is
indeed only one of many common human elements, or is that ailments.  :-)

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




  
   
  GaryMcInturff@aol   
   
  .com To:   rpick...@hypercom.com
   
   cc:  
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org   
  
  08/08/2003 02:55 Subject:  Re: Clayton Pauls -
Thanks all, obviously I messed up and Paul was correct   
  PM  
   
  
   
  
   




   Well, I knew I could expose my inadequacies in public. I hear this loud
- WHAT AGAIN! coming
through the Ether at me from the group :)This was obviously as good a way as
any. I'm going to blame
my calculator as a face saving effort.
   Ron after I got your note (and some others thanks) I went back at it
again and within reason
I know, almost magically, get the same answer. When stumped I usually right
the result of each step
in the equation down. The only place I didn't do that was the conversion
between mu and mu relative
- same for conductivity. So I must have screwed those up. (Not sure why it
only becomes obvious
after I ask the question - heavy sigh.
   Gary






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Re: Clayton Pauls - Intro to EMC - an error or two? for those that have the text

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Gary,

You're lucky I have a relatively free lunch hour today. I have a copy of that
book here. From
Problem 6.2, looking into your dilemma and using equation 6.2 and Table 6.1,
the answers were easily
calculated. Following are my results.

For Copper (and from Table 6.4):
Frequency  Skin Effect
1MHz   0.06597mm  2.5973mils
100MHz 0.00660mm  0.2597mils
1GHz   0.00209mm  0.0821mils

For Steel (SAE 1045):
Frequency  Skin Effect
1MHz   0.00660mm  0.2597mils
100MHz 0.00066mm  0.0260mils
1GHz   0.00021mm  0.0082mils

As you can clearly see, copper and steel have different skin effect
characteristics. And actually,
the skin effect values from Clayton's book do match with the values I've
obtained here. I'm not at
all sure why you think they are the same.

However, I hope this helps.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com



  

  garymcintu...@aol.com   

  Sent by:  To:  
emc-p...@ieee.org 
  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:   

  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  Clayton Pauls -
Intro to EMC - an error or two? for those that have the text 
  

  

  08/08/2003 10:33 AM 

  Please respond to   

  GaryMcInturff   

  

  





   My anal-retentive self is having some trouble with an occasional
example in the text and I
need either a confirmation or a slap in the forehead.
   I was just fiddling around with the text and reviewing some of the
examples and in section
6.4 he presents a table of skin depth for copper, but then in question 6.2 he
asks for the skin
depth of steel - and the numbers for the skin depth are the same. My
calculations say otherwise and
makes sense to me since the permeability is different between the materials.
copper = 1 and steel is
1000, that and the conductivity is different between the two.
   If you have the text and little or nothing else to do could you give me
the number you come
up with? ( in mm's or mils)
   When I'm trying to learn or relearn stuff and I'm at odds with the
various references it just
drives me wild and I don't have anyone else to confer with up here. One is
torn between the I'm
right response and the author's obvious authority on the subject.
   Thanks
   Befuddled (Gary)






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RE: Thermocouple glue

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Brian,

My use of the thermal grease, as I had indicated, was in the past. I have not
used it for a long
time.

But, I'm curious. What were the reasons that these people/entities gave to you
for not using the
thermal grease? Why wasn't it acceptable for them? Surely, they should have
given reasons for their
positions. Please advise. (BTW, I'm not trying to be contentious. I'm just
trying to know their
reasoning)

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




  
  
  boconn...@t-yuden.com   
  
  Sent by:  To:  
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org   

  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:   
  
  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  RE: Thermocouple
glue  
  
  
  
  
  04/28/2003 09:55 AM 
  
  Please respond to   
  
  boconnell   
  
  
  
  
  




My use of thermal grease was discontinued several years ago by request of
various agency engineers
reviewing test data/technique. And more recently, during my ISO 17025 audit,
the NCB auditor
explicitly directed me to never use thermal grease for thermocouple
application. And auditors from
other NRTLs/NCBs have emphasized, at least verbally, that thermal grease is
not acceptable.





R/S,
Brian



From: Ron Pickard [mailto:rpick...@hypercom.com]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 10:19 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Thermocouple glue


To all,


I'm surprised that no one hasn't mentioned this yet.


In the past for this application, the securement that I was introduced to was
fiberglass tape and
that white thermal grease. The tape exhibited high thermal stability and was
used to secure the
thermocouples, but left adhesive residue when removed after a temperature
test. The thermocouple was

inserted into the grease which offered excellent thermal conduction from the
measurement point  to
the thermocouple. The downside to this grease, as anyone who's used this
grease would say, is that
the grease is messy to the extreme and it generally could not be completely
removed from any
surface that it came in contact with. And, it always found a way to get onto
unintended surfaces
including clothing. But, as a plus, the thermal grease would stay put
physically over a very wide
temperature range.









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Re: FCC Limits

[Ron Pickard]

Hi John et al,

Why not at 240V? That way the ACA's requirement in Australia is satisfied and
the test voltage is
still within 230V tolerances.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com



  
  
  j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk
  
  Sent by:  To:  
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org   

  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:   
  
  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  Re: FCC Limits  
  
  
  
  
  
  04/29/2003 01:28 PM 
  
  Please respond to jmw   
  
  
  
  
  





I read in !emc-pstc that Pettit, Ghery ghery.pet...@intel.com wrote
(in d9223eb959a5d511a98f00508b68c20c12516...@orsmsx108.jf.intel.com)
about 'FCC Limits' on Tue, 29 Apr 2003:
The test methods are the same.  Now, the limits are the same.  You run
the
test twice - 120 V / 60 Hz and 220 V / 50 Hz.  Auto switching power
supplies
(or power supplies with a manual input voltage selector switch).  1 SKU
for
manufacturing to track.  Ship it anywhere.  That's the advantage for
manufacturers who ship around the world.

230 V, not 220 V.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co..uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: Thermocouple glue

[Ron Pickard]

To all,

I'm surprised that no one hasn't mentioned this yet.

In the past for this application, the securement that I was introduced to was
fiberglass tape and
that white thermal grease. The tape exhibited high thermal stability and was
used to secure the
thermocouples, but left adhesive residue when removed after a temperature
test. The thermocouple was
inserted into the grease which offered excellent thermal conduction from the
measurement point  to
the thermocouple. The downside to this grease, as anyone who's used this
grease would say, is that
the grease is messy to the extreme and it generally could not be completely
removed from any
surface that it came in contact with. And, it always found a way to get onto
unintended surfaces
including clothing. But, as a plus, the thermal grease would stay put
physically over a very wide
temperature range.

I'm sure that someone has fond memories of that stuff.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com



  
  
  pauljsmi...@cs.com  
  
  Sent by:  To:  
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 

  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:   
  
  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  Re: Thermocouple
glue  
  
  
  
  
  04/25/2003 08:53 AM 
  
  Please respond to   
  
  PaulJSmith1 
  
  
  
  
  




In a message dated 4/23/03 5:37:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes:
 Bill -

 If you're referring to what I think you are, it's fuller's
 earth and waterglass, which is a clay-like mineral and
 sodium silicate solution.

A former agency engineer I worked with also used this waterglass adhesive for
thermocouples. It
worked great and was usually easy to remove thermocouples without damaging.

Paul J Smith,
Senior Compliance Engineer





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Re: Thermocouple glue

[Ron Pickard]

To all,

I'm not sure if this message was received and/or distributed by the listerver,
but here it is again.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com


  

  Ron Pickard 

   To: 
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org   

  04/25/2003 10:19 cc:

  AM   Subject: Re: Thermocouple
glue(Document link: Ron Pickard)  
  

  




To all,

I'm surprised that no one hasn't mentioned this yet.

In the past for this application, the securement that I was introduced to was
fiberglass tape and
that white thermal grease. The tape exhibited high thermal stability and was
used to secure the
thermocouples, but left adhesive residue when removed after a temperature
test. The thermocouple was
inserted into the grease which offered excellent thermal conduction from the
measurement point  to
the thermocouple. The downside to this grease, as anyone who's used this
grease would say, is that
the grease is messy to the extreme and it generally could not be completely
removed from any
surface that it came in contact with. And, it always found a way to get onto
unintended surfaces
including clothing. But, as a plus, the thermal grease would stay put
physically over a very wide
temperature range.

I'm sure that someone has fond memories of that stuff.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com



  
  
  pauljsmi...@cs.com  
  
  Sent by:  To:  
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 

  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:   
  
  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  Re: Thermocouple
glue  
  
  
  
  
  04/25/2003 08:53 AM 
  
  Please respond to   
  
  PaulJSmith1 
  
  
  
  
  




In a message dated 4/23/03 5:37:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes:
 Bill -

 If you're referring to what I think you are, it's fuller's
 earth and waterglass, which is a clay-like mineral and
 sodium silicate solution.

A former agency engineer I worked with also used this waterglass adhesive for
thermocouples. It
worked great and was usually easy to remove thermocouples without damaging.

Paul J Smith,
Senior Compliance Engineer






This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

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 Richard Nute

RE: Check list for PCB Layout

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Thomas,

CHECKLIST
A checklist that you are requesting may be difficult to come by. I say this
because most, if not
all, people who create these types of documents do so from a base of personal
experience and
knowledge whereby they are unwilling to share. There is also the probably that
these documents may
be proprietary to the creator's employer. And, as I do not know your level of
expertise in this
area, basic PWB layout rules knowledge regarding EMC and SI may be learned
from the many very good
books and seminars on this subject as another member has already pointed out.
So, I personally
suggest that you either create your own checklist that would be tailored to
your, and your
employer's, needs and requirements or hire a consultant that's knowledgeable
in this area to assist
you.

CLOSE-FIELD PROBES
Unfortunately, there's no predictable correlation of near-field measurement
results to the far-field
measurement results that would be obtained from an OATS where verification is
formalized. Although
close-field probes are useful for tracking down emission sources, they cannot
and should not be used
for any kind of qualitative verification.

I hope this helps. Comments anyone?

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com


From: tkrze...@genius.org.br [mailto:tkrze...@genius.org.br]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 6:21 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Check list for PCB Layout

Hi everybody,

I would like to create a check list in order to help designers and PCB routers
of my company to
improve their design / EMI and SI. Where can I find documentations (PDF,
links...) with basics PCB
rules regarding EMI and SI ??

Witch kind of tests can I set up to verify radiations only with two close
field probes ? Is there
some referencies (standards, norms...) for close fields levels ? Can I measure
them??

Thanks.

Thomas K.
Genius Institute




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RE: Certification Databases

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Josh,

Thanks for the web addresses. Actually, I already have those web addresses
that you provided. And to
be informative, here are the VDE and TUV PS (now TUV America?) database
addresses:

VDE:
http://pzi.vde.com/en/

TUV Product Service (web address has changed):
http://www.tuvamerica.com/tools/clientlists/certs.cfm

Anyone have any others?

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com





  
   
  JWiseman@printron   
   
  ix.com   To:  
rpick...@hypercom.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
  
   cc:
   
  04/15/2003 11:54 Subject:  RE: Certification
Databases  
  AM  
   
  
   
  
   




Ron,

I don't have VDE or TUV Product Services but here are UL, CSA and TUV
Rheinland.  If you go to the
main website, there is a link for certified products.  TUV has the dotCOM
service that list the
companies, but the company can also sign up and have manuals, DoC's and other
useful items placed on
their website as well.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.htm

http://directories.csa-international.org/

http://www.tuvdotcom.com/pi/web/index.xml?LanguageChanged=en-us

Regards,
Josh

From: Ron Pickard [mailto:rpick...@hypercom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:10 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Certification Databases



Hello to all,

Does anyone know if there are any web-based certification databases from any
safety agency such as
the ones from UL, CSA, VDE and TUV? If so, what are their web addresses?

I'm certain that this information would be very useful to all.

I look forward to your replies.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




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RE: Certification Databases

[Ron Pickard]

To all,

Thanks to the responses so far. But, I already have access to the UL, CSA, VDE
and TUV NA and TUV PS
databases as I alluded to in my original post.

I was looking for any other safety agency web-based databases (e.g., NEMKO,
SEMKO, BSI, FIMKO, SEV,
BSI, SII, BIS, etc). Does anyone know of any?

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com



  

  rpick...@hypercom.com   

  Sent by:  To:  
jwise...@printronix.com   
  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:  
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org   
  
  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  RE:
Certification Databases   
  
  

  

  04/15/2003 12:18 PM 

  Please respond to   

  RPickard

  

  







Hi Josh,

Thanks for the web addresses. Actually, I already have those web addresses
that you provided. And to
be informative, here are the VDE and TUV PS (now TUV America?) database
addresses:

VDE:
http://pzi.vde.com/en/

TUV Product Service (web address has changed):
http://www.tuvamerica.com/tools/clientlists/certs.cfm

Anyone have any others?

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com






  JWiseman@printron

  ix.com   To:   rpick...@hypercom.com,
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
   cc:

  04/15/2003 11:54 Subject:  RE: Certification
Databases

  AM







Ron,

I don't have VDE or TUV Product Services but here are UL, CSA and TUV
Rheinland.  If you go to the
main website, there is a link for certified products.  TUV has the dotCOM
service that list the
companies, but the company can also sign up and have manuals, DoC's and other
useful items placed on
their website as well.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.htm

http://directories.csa-international.org/

http://www.tuvdotcom.com/pi/web/index.xml?LanguageChanged=en-us

Regards,
Josh

From: Ron Pickard [mailto:rpick...@hypercom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:10 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Certification Databases



Hello to all,

Does anyone know if there are any web-based certification databases from any
safety agency such as
the ones from UL, CSA, VDE and TUV? If so, what are their web addresses?

I'm certain that this information would be very useful to all.

I look forward to your replies.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




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Certification Databases

[Ron Pickard]

Hello to all,

Does anyone know if there are any web-based certification databases from any
safety agency such as
the ones from UL, CSA, VDE and TUV? If so, what are their web addresses?

I'm certain that this information would be very useful to all.

I look forward to your replies.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




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Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

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Re: Telephone Book for Iran, again

[Ron Pickard]

David et al,

I've checked further and found the teldir site has changed to the following:

http://www.infobel.com/teldir/default.asp

Maybe that's why their servers were always busy. Who knows.

Anyway, IHTH you more.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




  
  
  Ron Pickard 
  
   To: 
pat...@patton-assoc.com   
  
  01/29/2003 01:14 cc: 
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, t...@world.std.com   
  
  PM   Subject: Re: Telephone Book for
Iran(Document link: Ron Pickard)  
  
  
  
  



David,

As for getting an actual Iranian telephone book, I'm afraid I cannot help you.
However, you might
want to try the following link. If you're not familiar with it, it provides
telephone number/address
search capabilities for essentially any country on the planet by linking to
localized telephone
company sites. Unfortunately, this site is currently experiencing technical
difficulties, at
present. But, when its working, it does work well.

http://www.teldir.com/eng/

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




  
   
  patton@patton-ass   
   
  oc.com   To:  
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, t...@world.std.com   
  
  Sent by: cc:
   
  treg-approval@worSubject:  Telephone Book for
Iran  
  ld.std.com  
   
  
   
  
   
  01/29/2003 11:50
   
  AM  
   
  Please respond to   
   
  patton  
   
  
   
  
   




Hello All:

Would any one have a contact(s) with some any one that has an up to date
Iranian Telephone book?

We are seeking information (translated into English) which is generally
contained in the first few pages of the telephone book, which identifies
specific numbers for calling different types of services, such as the
operator, international calling, Emergency Services, and others.

Any name or contact or E Mail address information would be most sincerely
appreciated.

Best Regards

David Patton

Patton  Associates
82 Wildwood Drive
Prescott, Arizona 86305-5093 USA

Tel: +1.928.771.2900
Fax: +1.928.771.2990
Toll Free: +1.877.311.8735
E Mail: pat...@patton-assoc.com
Web: http://www.patton-assoc.com








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Re: Telephone Book for Iran

[Ron Pickard]

David,

As for getting an actual Iranian telephone book, I'm afraid I cannot help you.
However, you might
want to try the following link. If you're not familiar with it, it provides
telephone number/address
search capabilities for essentially any country on the planet by linking to
localized telephone
company sites. Unfortunately, this site is currently experiencing technical
difficulties, at
present. But, when its working, it does work well.

http://www.teldir.com/eng/

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com




  
   
  patton@patton-ass   
   
  oc.com   To:  
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, t...@world.std.com   
  
  Sent by: cc:
   
  treg-approval@worSubject:  Telephone Book for
Iran  
  ld.std.com  
   
  
   
  
   
  01/29/2003 11:50
   
  AM  
   
  Please respond to   
   
  patton  
   
  
   
  
   




Hello All:

Would any one have a contact(s) with some any one that has an up to date
Iranian Telephone book?

We are seeking information (translated into English) which is generally
contained in the first few pages of the telephone book, which identifies
specific numbers for calling different types of services, such as the
operator, international calling, Emergency Services, and others.

Any name or contact or E Mail address information would be most sincerely
appreciated.

Best Regards

David Patton

Patton  Associates
82 Wildwood Drive
Prescott, Arizona 86305-5093 USA

Tel: +1.928.771.2900
Fax: +1.928.771.2990
Toll Free: +1.877.311.8735
E Mail: pat...@patton-assoc.com
Web: http://www.patton-assoc.com







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RE: SV: NRTL in the U.S.

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Dave,

You are not correct when you stated that UL60950 is the same as EN60950.
Actually, both of these
standards are based on IEC60950, but they are not equal to each other. Each
has specific national
deviations from IEC60950 that must be addressed if a product is to be
successfully evaluated to
either standard.

Comments?

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com





  

  drcuthb...@micron.com   

  Sent by:  To:  
am...@westin-emission.no, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordocc:   

  mo.ieee.org   Subject:  RE: SV: NRTL in
the U.S. 
  

  

  01/17/2003 02:30 PM 

  Please respond to   

  drcuthbert  

  

  






Amund,

Several EU standards have been harmonized with the United States UL
standards. A list can be found at
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/catalog/stdscatframe.html

For example, UL 60950 the same as EN 60950. So, I'm thinking that if your
device meets EU safety requirements it will make it through UL as long it
has been designed to a harmonized standard. Does this sound reasonable to
anyone or am I off the mark?

  Dave Cuthbert


From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 12:25 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: SV: SV: NRTL in the U.S.



I would never dare to declare U.S. compliance without testing and certify
via a NRTL. But what I am struggling with, is to gain knowledge about the
basic electrical safety laws in U.S. Maybe I do not need legally to go
through a NRTL, but that does not mean I would, even if I could.

The electrical safety legislation seems to be a bit more complicated in U.S.
compared to EU.

Best regards
Amund Westin, Oslo / Norway



 -Opprinnelig melding-
 Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
 [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne av John Woodgate
 Sendt: 17. januar 2003 13:25
 Til: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
 Emne: Re: SV: NRTL in the U.S.



 I read in !emc-pstc that Amund Westin am...@westin-emission.no wrote
 (in lfenjlpmmjbmhpeibnilaeapckaa.am...@westin-emission.no) about 'SV:
 NRTL in the U.S.' on Fri, 17 Jan 2003:

 Just for a few seconds forget the customers requirements, is it
 therefore a
 correct interpretation that electrical equipment (ITE, household
 appliances,
 radio transmitters, etc) must be certified in order to follow
 the U.S. laws

 I think you really already had the strictly correct answer, but it's
 over-complicated.

 The practical answer is that it's much better to have certification than
 not to have it, unless the cost of certification would make your product
 uncompetitive against other, uncertified products in competition with
 yours.
 --
 Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: strange symbols (to me anyway)

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Gary,

For the symbol with the arrow pointing into the house, I would say that the
wall wart is intended to
be used indoors, not outdoors. As to the symbols origin, I have no idea. But,
you might want to
check out ISO7000. There's many, many symbols in my 1989 copy (many I'm sure
that you'd recognize)
and I'm sure that more have been added since then.

As for the C symbol, I have have no idea. However, let's wait and see if any
of our learned
colleagues might know.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com






  
  
  Gary.McInturff@worldwide
  
  packets.com To:  
emc-p...@ieee.org 
  
  Sent by:cc: 
  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordomoSubject:  strange
symbols (to me anyway)
  
  .ieee.org   
  
  
  
  
  
  01/02/2003 03:42 PM 
  
  Please respond to   
  
  Gary.McInturff  
  
  
  
  
  





 I have a small double insulated wall wart type power supply. 120
Vac in,  12 Vdc out
has a symbol of a house with an arrow pointing inside the house. What is that
symbol and whence did
it come.
 This one is going to be tough to describe, and is on a little
wireless device.
 A nearly closed C. The upper half has a horizontal lightning
bolt separating top
and bottom. In the bottom portion of this symbol is what appears to be a
capacitor with horizontal
plates. (both plates are represented by flat lines rather than 1 flat and one
an arc).
 Thanks
 Gary



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Re: DC Input Power Conducted Emissions

[Ron Pickard]

Bob,

Clause 6.2 of EN 300386 states The artificial network to be used is the one 
described in CISPR 16-1
[1], clause 5:
- 0,15 MHz to 30 MHz: (50 ohms // 50 µH).

Also if you wish, you can download this standard for free from ETSI's website.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com






 
  rehel...@mmm.com  
 
   To:   rpick...@hypercom.com  
 
  11/26/02 05:08 AMcc:   
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
   Subject:  Re: DC Input Power 
Conducted Emissions  

 





Does this require a different LISN other than the standard LISN?

Bob Heller
3M Product Safety, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



  Ron Pickard

  RPickard@hypercom   To:   rehel...@mmm.com

  .comcc:   
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org

   Subject:  Re: DC Input Power 
Conducted Emissions

  11/25/2002 02:50

  PM







Bob,

Also to what Leslie has stated, if your equipment is considered to be
Telecommunications Network
Equipment, then ETSI's EN300386 would apply, which requires a conducted
emissions test, according
to EN55022, of the DC input power port (see clause 6.2) if the input wiring
is greater than 3m.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com





  owner-emc-pstc@majordo

  mo.ieee.org   To:
rehel...@mmm.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org

cc:

  11/25/02 01:07 PM Subject:  Re: DC Input
Power Conducted Emissions
  Please respond to

  leslie_bai







Bob,


EN55022 is applicable to ITE equipment, there is no conducted emissions on
DC port.


However, EN55022 excludes any equipment (or part of the ITE equipment)
which has a primary function
of radio transmission and/or reception according to the ITU Radio
Regulations (excerpt from
EN55022:1998, Clause 3.1).


For excluded equipement, Conducted emission testing on DC port may be
required. Here is an
example.


For Short Range Device (SRD), EN 301 489-3 both DC and AC ports are
required Conducted Emissions
testing, refer to Clause 7.1 (Emissions) at Page 14 of EN 301 489-3
(2000-08).


If your PC is just another personal computer mainly for data processing
rather than data
transmission, Conducted emission testing on the DC port is not applicable.


Hope this helps.


Leslie





 rehel...@mmm.com wrote:

 Is it a requirement to measure conducted emissions on a DC input power
port
 under CISPR 22 or EN55022? The equipment is a PC that runs off a DC power
 bus?

 Thanks,
 Bob Heller
 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01
 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
 Tel: 651- 778-6336
 Fax: 651-778-6252


 ---
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Re: DC Input Power Conducted Emissions

[Ron Pickard]

Bob,

Also to what Leslie has stated, if your equipment is considered to be 
Telecommunications Network
Equipment, then ETSI's EN300386 would apply, which requires a conducted 
emissions test, according
to EN55022, of the DC input power port (see clause 6.2) if the input wiring is 
greater than 3m.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com





  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordo
  
  mo.ieee.org   To:   rehel...@mmm.com, 
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org   
cc: 
  
  11/25/02 01:07 PM Subject:  Re: DC Input 
Power Conducted Emissions  
  Please respond to 
  
  leslie_bai
  

  

  




Bob,


EN55022 is applicable to ITE equipment, there is no conducted emissions on DC 
port.


However, EN55022 excludes any equipment (or part of the ITE equipment) which 
has a primary function
of radio transmission and/or reception according to the ITU Radio Regulations 
(excerpt from
EN55022:1998, Clause 3.1).


For excluded equipement, Conducted emission testing on DC port may be 
required. Here is an
example.


For Short Range Device (SRD), EN 301 489-3 both DC and AC ports are required 
Conducted Emissions
testing, refer to Clause 7.1 (Emissions) at Page 14 of EN 301 489-3 (2000-08).


If your PC is just another personal computer mainly for data processing rather 
than data
transmission, Conducted emission testing on the DC port is not applicable.


Hope this helps.


Leslie





 rehel...@mmm.com wrote:

 Is it a requirement to measure conducted emissions on a DC input power port
 under CISPR 22 or EN55022? The equipment is a PC that runs off a DC power
 bus?

 Thanks,
 Bob Heller
 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01
 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
 Tel: 651- 778-6336
 Fax: 651-778-6252


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Re: Fixes

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Lisa,

There are several excellent books that come to mind:

1. Printed Circuit Board Design Techniques for EMC Compliance,
  Mark Montrose, IEEE Press, ISBN-07803-5376-5
2. EMC and the Printed Circuit Board - Design, Theory and Layout Made Simple,
  Mark Montrose, IEEE Press, ISBN 0-7803-4703-X
3. Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Systems,
  Henry Ott, Wiley-Interscience, ISBN 0-471-85068-3
4. Controlling Radiated Emissions by Design,
  Michel Mardiguian, Van Nostrand-Reinhold, ISBN 0-422-00949-6
5. EMI Troubleshooting Techniques,
  Michel Mardiguian, McGraw Hill, ISBN 0-07-134418-7

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com





  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordo
  
  mo.ieee.org   To:   
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
cc: 
  
  11/07/02 12:34 PM Subject:  Fixes 
  
  Please respond to 
  
  Lisa_Cefalo   
  

  

  





Hi all,

Does anyone know of a source, (web site, book, papers, etc.) which contains
suggestions on how to fix various EMI problems?

Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Lisa



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Admin Announcement: Recent e-card Message Info

[Ron Pickard]

Thanks for the update Rick.

Actually Rick, the link that you provided doesn't appear to be complete. I have 
searched the MSNBC
website and found that news article that you referred to  at the following 
webpage:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/826033.asp?0dm=C219T

To our members,
If this link doesn't work for you, got to:
www.msnbc.com,
place your cursor over the Tech-Science link on the left side (a  selection 
window will pop up),
on the selection window, place your cursor over the Hacks, Viruses  Scams 
link (a new selection
window will pop up),
on the new selection window, click on the Sneaky e-card installs porn 'worm' 
link.

From this news article, most anti-virus companies have not decided if this is 
a virus or not. So,
please read this article for more details about this. Since we admins received 
only a single member
response about these postings, it was assumed that the membership was savvy 
enough not to click on a
link as suspicious as this one was. However, we were just about to post a 
notice to the group
advising not to click on the link in an email message with a subject line with 
an e-card
announcement. We admins were trying to decide if this was an actual virus or 
not. As these messages
were passed through this listserver, I believe these messages themselves did 
not contain any virus
or they would have been rejected by the IEEE's anti-virus software.

Also, the member address from where these e-card postings originated has been 
notified and has been
advised to take measures that this will not repeat itself. Hopefully, this will 
not pose a problem
to any member in the future. However, this will continue to be an ever-present 
problem for all of
us.

PLEASE NOTE: As a warning to all group members, these types of messages 
themselves may not contain a
virus or other offensive material, which allows them to slip past most 
anti-virus softwares. But, by
clicking on the link(s) inside them, a virus or some other undesireable 
software might likely be
installed into the user's computer without the user's knowledge. We urge and 
advise all of our
members to be aware of such messages and to use caution when presented with 
such a message AND to
keep their anti-virus software up-to-date.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
EMC-PSTC Administrator
email: emc-p...@hypercom.com
tel: +602-504-4966
fax: +602-504-4711






  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordo
  
  mo.ieee.org   To:   
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
cc: 
  
  10/25/02 02:49 PM Subject:  Recent Virus 
Attack Info
  Please respond to 
  
  rbusche   
  

  

  






For those of you who received the e-card a few days ago on this network, a 
news article has been
posted on MSNBC that explains the problem. If you are interested here is the 
link.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/826033.asp?0na=x22149Z1-

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Re: High Speed Clock Routing

[Ron Pickard]

Hi Scott,

First, I think we all need a bit more information for a specific response. Such 
as:

- what is the clock frequency?
- what is the clock rise time?
- what is the clock signal amplitude?
- overshoot or undershoot?
- are these clock traces impedance controlled?
- stripline or microstrip?

And, you probably won't get a specific response anyway. That's what consultants 
are for.  :-)

But for rules of thumb with clock traces (and other high energy traces), it is 
important to keep
layer changes to a minimum, if not zero, and keep them routed away from other 
susceptible traces to
reduce crosstalk. In general, use a series termination located next to the 
output pin. Also, almost
always avoid trace branches for clock traces. Its also important to keep 
everything well decoupled.

IHTH.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com





  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordo
  
  mo.ieee.org   To:   emc-p...@ieee.org 
  
cc: 
  
  10/24/02 10:20 AM Subject:  High Speed Clock 
Routing
  Please respond to 
  
  Scott.Mee 
  

  

  





All,

I have a question regarding trace routing for high-speed clock signals.

I have one driver, and two receivers.  The distance between the driver and
1st receiver is roughly 2.5cm, the distance between 1st receiver and 2nd
receiver is 3cm, and the distance between driver and 2nd receiver is 3.5cm.

I actually have 2 questions:

  1) What is a good rule of thumb for routing and termination of this
high-speed clock trace?
  2) Is daisy chain routing preferred (meaning driver to 1st receiver,
then 2nd receiver), or should 2 traces of equal length be routed, 1 to each
receiver (each of these two traces will have twice the impedance of the
single trace emanating from the driver so that impedance matching will be
maintained)?

Any information, in general, or in specific on the subject is greatly
appreciated.


Thank you.

Best Regards,

Scott Mee
Johnson Controls Inc.
Automotive Systems Group
EMC Product Compliance

616.394.2565
scott@jci.com


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