[Emc-users] Servo and encoder specs. some help please.
I recently bought a pair of Electrocraft / Reliance ElectricE661 servos fitted with Renco 77678-319 encoders. Part number 661-028-0156 My Web-Fu must be getting weak as I have not been able tofind any real specs on either the servo or encoder. These units are used pulls from some equipment gettingparted out. They are available from multiple sources on ebay and other venues. Theyhave a 3/16” aluminum mounting plate with 2 quick release levers and a toothpulley for a 1/2 wide XL belt Mountingflange appears to be NEMA 34, Encoder shaft is ½” dia. and output shaft appearsto be 5/16” or 8mm ( I have not removed the pulleys.) Removing the encoder cover I see that only 4 wires areconnected to the internal 8 pin connector so no index is being brought out onthe existing encoder wire. Is anyone familure with these. Without specs it is hard tomake informed decisions on how to apply these for best use. OTOH I also recently got a great buy on a 2Nm Stepper withencoder feed back driver kit with all cables for $106 shipped. Now I see theprice has dropped even further. Greg ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] G54.1 option.
Hello list; LinuxCNC has its native 9 sets of work shift coordinates ( G54-G59.3). For me it is enough. I have used the Fanuc G54.1 P## and the HAAS expanded offset function. While not as user friendly you can have as many work shifts as you need by adding extra sub programs. o10 (RESET workshift)G10 ...P1G10...P#etc o11 (SET GROUP1) o12 (SET GROUP2) It would be better to expand the "tool table" capacity, but it has been explained that trying to do so would be a major re-write of the LCNC package, so maybe when we get to the point of release v3.0. Greg ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: loctiting cutters
" I never want to remove it." OK - Then The Loctite you seek is called Silver soldier. clamp some copper / brass / Aluminum on the cutting portion of the tool so that heat that migrates that direction will be dissipated enough to not effect the edge hardness of the tool. Tooling has been made this way since before WW1. Greg B. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage
[Greg] BTW MecSoft added the Inverse time mode option to the AlibreCAM, RhinoCAM, and VisualMill plug in for SolidWorks. Once I get my Hurco Conversion functional I intend to do a series of LinuxCNC post processor files for the Mecsoft CAM engine. [/Greg] ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Adding feedback to an existing stepper motor.
{Greg}
There are options to converting existing steppers to closed loop feed back.
The LCNC software/hardware option would be to add an encoder and run the
stepper in velocity mode. This does not offer the many advantages of the direct
feedback drivers.
Then for small steppers there is the Mechaduino bolt on option. Buy direct from
https://tropical-labs.com/
https://hackaday.com/2016/06/01/mechaduino-closed-loop-stepper-servos-for-everyone/
https://github.com/jcchurch13/Mechaduino-Hardware
https://github.com/jcchurch13/Mechaduino-Firmware
The latest firmware release was 26 November 2018 so this is not a dead item.
If someone were to build on this open source project and produce a unit with a
50VDC / 6A working power capacity it could cover most steppers.
IIRC Gecko drive was once working on this idea and had it working, I think
maybe it was not released because it was not economical and would not match
performance of matched motor drive combos, but that is just my speculation.
I would like to get one of the matched motor/driver units and see if the
encoder could be replaced with a unit which included a index channel.
{/Greg}
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[Emc-users] Lead acid batteries
{Greg}
If I were going to install a full off grid potential solar power system for my
ranch I would buy lead acid Telco system batteries.
They are not true deep cycle, but have such high capacity that it isn't an
issue. They are initially expensive and huge. ( I might buy some 10yr old units
being decommissioned )
On the plus sign they can have up to a 30 year service life and are user
serviceable with rebuild kits which swap out the battery plates.
Back in the 80's the phone company would look at the budget come 4th quarter
and if there was a surplus they would rebuild older battery banks of 12 year or
older.
Now with OSHA and Hazmat regs they hire independent battery maintenance to
service these batts.
New installs are likely going away from lead acid due to acid vapor and
hydrogen issues as well as a much reduced foot print per KWh.
But EMP proof? - hard to kill a plain lead acid system.
{/Greg}
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[Emc-users] Possible new feature request – a package file.
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Rock64 pre-orders on Banggood.
>< I noticed that Banggood had the Quadcore Rock64 boards on pre-order for the 1GB, 2GB, and 4GB ram versions with a projected available to ship date of April 9th. What stood out to me when reading the specs was that the Rock64 has a 2nd 10/100 Ethernet port on the second accessory pin header. When you consider it also has the Mali dual core GPU I would think this could be a real contender for a LCNC build. Price is above my spare change spending limit at present. I still have a few manual machines I need to get leveled and powered up. Greg ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Air line for Gene
I hope the link will survive the paste. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/pneumatic_components/flexible_pneumatic_tubing_-a-_hoses/straight_polyurethane_(pur)_tubing/8_mm_(5-z-16_inch) | | | 8 mm (5/16 inch) | Pneumatic Components | Products | AutomationDirect 8 mm (5/16 inch) from AutomationDirect, the best value in industrial automation - low prices, fast shipping, and... | | | What you need is likely 8mm OD Polyurethane pneumatic rated tubing. Hope this helps Greg/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Dedicated Processor hardware for LinuxCNC
( Greg )
Every kid would love to ask for a pony, if they thought they could get it they
would ask for a unicorn. Reality however usually proves this to be impractical
to impossible.
Everything is changing today at a hyper accelerated pace. Back in the day
Motorola produced the 68000 CPU, it was used in all sorts of equipment from
Apple PC's to Okuma machine controls. I would guess that that CPU was still
being used to manufacture products 20 years after debut.
Today PC cpu and chip sets are what a 3-5 year life cycle before going OOP.
Same with many ARM CPU. Look at the Arduino and how many generations have come
down the road. Most new version have moved to 3.3V and are no longer compatible
with 5V shields.
Even if someone did come up with a backplane card rack for most of the
interface cards, that main CPU board would have to be updated nearly constantly
because key components would become un-obtainable. Todays global manufacturing
tries to run as close to true JIT as it can.(JIT="Just in Time") companies want
as little space and capitol tied up in inventory. When I worked an Apple PC
assembly line they were so JIT focused they only kept 4-6 HOURS worth of
components in the facility. This meant that trucks were delivering Mem, HDD's
ect. were being unloaded every few hours and being reloaded with boxed product
ready for market.
Several Chinese machine tool builders have offered LinuxCNC as the control to
reduce the overhead of building the machine. I believe it would be used more if
tool builders were sure they could not be held liable for a system they sold
that had been modified by the buyer.
GRBL has come along way - and it was a project to fit a stripped version of the
early EMC/LinuxCNC into cheap Arduino hardware. the current v1.1 IIRC had to
strip down the boot loader and some other items to still be able to squeeze the
optimized assembly code into the Atmega328p chip. What did GRBL have to give up
to fit in an Arduino? Tool table capability {G43}, Tool radius comp {G41-G42},
Minimal look ahead buffer, No program storage - its all drip feed via serial,
no program editing, X-Y-Z only no additional axis, no spindle feedback
(tapping), requires second device to stream G-code and operate the control. Now
I like GRBL and it has the honor of being the founding code which virtually all
extruder type 3D printers is based. I hope someday there is a port for a rotary
axis, I would love to use it to engrave on cylinders using X-A-Z.
For now though, the movement towards SSerial and interface from control PC via
Ethernet allows all sorts of flexibility.
As for HP-GL, I had to work with HPGL for tool paths for several years and it
was a complete disaster. Mathematically a "line" has no physical width, not
exactly so in HPGL so you will have gaps, broken chains, lines intersecting not
at there endpoints and all arcs are output as splines. While at the scale for a
HP pen plotter this worked out, for CNC use it was a dismal failure of epic man
hours wasted trying to get each file into a usable state. I hope HPGL is
banished from the face of the earth long before G-code begins to fade. I agree
that G-code is far from perfect, but there is no other method out there that
even comes close. Early AutoCAD had the same sort of dysfunction issues by the
use of the "polyline" construct.
Lastly - May I ask the status of LCNC v2.8? Is there any potential release date
on the horizon?
Thanks ( /Greg )
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[Emc-users] OT note to Erik C - Solar batteries
(Greg) Erik, A trend I have been noticing in the DIY solar crowd is to salvage the batteries from wrecked Tesla or Mercedes Hybrids. The Batteries are series wired for output in the 400VDC range but can be rewired in parallel for a 50-60VDC output. Just need to be sure the charge controller has a custom or Li-po setting. I hope to rig up a 6Kw bank here at the ranch so it can handle the Inrush starting demands of my deep well pump. If I can off load the spare refrigerator, freezer chest and well pump that will be about half my domestic electric cost. With luck I can eventually get the whole house on solar + wind power. The shop will always have to be on the grid, the big CNC's have 26Kw or higher startup loads. If the house is off grid then my electric bill will be a 100% business expense. (/Greg) ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Can anyone identify who did this?
(Greg) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shkv0kA-pYg Operator Panel to LinuxCNC as USB HID via STM32 (/Greg) ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Tip for Coolant misters
Begin Greg -- The Tool and Die crew I worked with would use a Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube, or mister on the machines in the die dept because none were rigged for flood. One of the favorites was to mix up a 40% Isopropal alcohol with distilled or DI water and run it in the mister. The Alcohol really boosted the evaporative cooling. When the job needed extra chill they would run 95% Isopropal. Only time it would ever catch fire was when OD grinding 1mm dia. ejector pins. It would light for maybe 2-3 seconds, but could never sustain its self. I would use an inline pressure regulator and keep the pressure down around 25psi to help keep your compressor from having a heart attack. On gummy AL I have made a 1/4" mote around the work area on the panel and used a small squeeze bottle to put just enough Kerosene on the part surface to see that it is .02" deep and as it leaks away through the cutouts I add more as needed, (running 4K-24K RPM) I also highly recommend Kerosene for use with "D" profile engraving cutters. End Greg -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] 7i77 – Trying to understand TB2
. 7i77 – Trying to understand TB2 Pin 1 – VFIELD – FIELD Power 8-32V Pin 2 – VFIELD – FIELD Power 8-32V Pin 3 – VFIELD – FIELD Power 8-32V Pin 4 – VFIELD – FIELD Power 8-32V Pin 5 – VIN – FIELD I/O Logic Power 8-32V Pin 6, 7 – NC Pin 8 – Ground – COMMON So – are pins 1-4 common to each other, not common and can be supplied different voltages, common but redundant to allow for greater current transfer. Everyone I have ask has given completely different and conflicting answers. Since I have no idea what the encoder current draw will be I will be supplying TB1 with its own 5V powersupply and thus W1 will short the 2 pins on the right (farthest from the DB25) I have a second 24V powersupply which I have wired to each pin 1-5 with ground on pin 8. My notes show I did this wiring 12/3/17 and have yet to actually power it up as have yet to obtain a clear definitive answer as to if this is proper or a potential smoke machine. Greg . ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] lost in the transcendental math again
Cutter comp G41 | G42 Going all the way back to when I was first taught NC programming via punched paper tape. Engaging CC or disengaging CC should always be done with a lead in move. G00 X# Y#G01 Z#G42 X# Y# D# F# Also since it is a modal value the first time you call G41|G42 it is best practice to define the D# which should match the T# in the tool table. You are only defining the tool table #. The value listed for D in the tool table is actual tool Diameter when programming with true part coordinates. Note: Most CAD/CAM systems do not use true part geometry and instead program all moves based on spindle centerline.In this case the value for D in the tool table should default to zero and only a correction value would be in the tool table. CAM defined Tool Dia. - actual tool dia. G41.1|G42.1 The D value here would be a real measured number not tool table # In theory the docs say that when LCNC executes a T# M6 that values for G43 H# and the G41|G42 D# are loaded. I do not know if an M6 remap affects this, but for clarity and portability I always include the D# and H#'s when first called for a tool. End climb of soap box. Greg ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] More on bed wear fix
Greg begin Am I going to be the 1st person to point out that the tailstock on most lathe designs does not use the same ways as the lathe carriage and therefore is not subject to the bed wear issue. If the tailstock is out it is mal-adjusted or the lathe is not leveled properly and you have bed twist / slope / rainbow etc. Greg end ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] More on bed wear fix
Gene - Xray film exposed to light and processed makes for a very heavy filter. Perhaps a single dental xray would provide enough material. Also if you know anyone who processes there own 35mm. Pan X or Plus X and maybe even Tri-X B&W film - the leader area will be fully blacked out. Pan X would be the finest grain but Plus X wasn't far behind. Greg ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
I may have slept through a major upgrade. But I was sure that there was no support for dual tool paths to run independently at the same time. I have run older Okuma dual turret turning centers and both turrets could work independently within reason. (This was a single spindle machine) Okuma used G13 P / G14 P to define upper/lower turret and the P kept them in sync. Either G13|G14 program could issue S M3|M4|M5. Dual independent operation is only needed on a dual spindle/ dual turret, and things will get real complicated for the LCNC developers when you try to do a part hand off on the fly from '$0' to '$1'. I like the '$' implementation as proposed but I wonder if the $# should be tied to the active work coordinate system. IE G54-G57 might be set to $0 and the G58-G59 are set to $1 I know this could throw another wrench in the format system variables are stored. Greg - Out yonder in Yoder, CO ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Rockhopper output
Gene; If you can get Rockhopper to give you a "D" or "E" size PDF output, your local Kinky's print shop can print up the poster for you. Think it cost me $3.25 + state & local tribute per page. Greg Bentzinger -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Plasma build - early planning.
So I want to build a combo table with dual Z slides - Plasma and Mill/Router. I have a 50A 60% duty cycle scratch start machine now. I know that if I use it I will have trouble with fine screen and expanded metal will be hopeless. On raw stock it works great, but one of the key reasons I bought it was to tear down units for recycling. Baked enamel used on washer dryers requires me to grind a clean spot for ground clamp and a spot for each cut start. Knowing that now I would have paid the extra coin to have the pilot arc feature. Am I going to have to get a pilot arc system to be viable for CNC use? I want to use a magnetic break away mount for the Plasma slide as I also may mount a Laser on that slide. The Mill / Router side will also have quick changeable mounts (quick being a relative term) to hold a Router or on the other mount a SEIG X2 mill head I found on Craig's list. The X2 head will allow use of all types of R8 tooling and the OEM DC motor is a fair match for the rigidity of a 52" wide gantry. I am thinking of using dual 16mm ball screws fixed with rotating nut drive on the gantry legs - This will allow the speed I want without screw whip issues. I actually think this might be cheaper than rack/pinion drive, but with dirt issues. Since plasma is not currently part of my business, this project has no real budget, but I have collected all kinds of motion control parts, bits and pieces that I can use. Also what is the simplest THC to use with LCNC? Since the budget also does not provide for enhanced compressed air sources I will be adding air pressure switches with logic Pressure low, pause between cuts, and pressure good, to resume or start a program. I may do a 26"x 26" as a preparation build - but that small I might just use belt drive. Ideas? -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Pi with a side of SPI
Greg - To Gene - and list If the RPi can use SPI over a 250mm length cable at rated speed then it is a great option. No? How about a 150mm cable? If the signal can't get off the host PCB and to the target PCB reliably then the whole issue is a non starter moot point. Maybe if there was an off the shelf adapter PCB to rig a hat sandwich. For 90% of users PCB level mods are beyond what they signed on for. SPI is faster than needed which is nice to have extra available free time in the loop. But MACH 3, other than smooth stepper users was almost all para port. LCNC proved it could drive parallel ports just fine. Higher level controls Like Pico Systems and Mesa ECP/EPP based FPGA cards have proven that an ECP/EPP connection is plenty effective speed wise. For my mill retrofit I went with a small pile of Mesa cards starting with a 5i25/7i77 with several additional SSerial cards added to the mix (mega overkill, and probably not really needed) I still have a 7i43 I bought way back, and I have a lathe conversion that has been on a back burner for a few years. I was thinking of driving the 7i43 with a new/old stock DM510 I have had on the shelf NIB long enough that any warranty has long expired. Sadly the DM510 is actually less powerful than the RPi, only thing in the DM510 favor is I can stuff it with 4gb ram. I have renewed my interest in the Pi because I'm looking at some simple applications which using the Pi as the front end driving an Arduino with GRBL is plenty. One application is a powered feed with auto reset for my horizontal bandsaw, a second axis could be used to auto feed the stock for the next cut using a vise clamped/unclamped sensor switch to inhibit/resume. Another RPi + Arduino GRBL is a stand alone programmable 4th axis indexer for manual milling - plus having connectors that would allow bypassing the Pi/GRBL and driving the stepper (with encoder feedback) from LCNC. Another project that is just on the wish list at this point is a 5 axis tool grinder, but it might become 8-9 axis if I include programmable form wheel dressing. (bring Whiskey and Asprin) Currently all conversions are on hold as I am trying to make space to shoehorn in the machinery I purchased from my Uncles Estate. I have a Okuma LK 350mm lathe, Bridgeport, another horizontal bandsaw and a Harig 6x18 Surface grinder. Been so much rain the soil is too soft for the forklifts to unload. So delivery keeps getting pushed back. Thankfully I'm not backlogged currently because after the machines are in, then I have to go back to the old site and remove the wiring and phase converter and install the outlets at my shop. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Has anyone played around with this: Pi-paraport
Has anyone played around with this: Pi-paraport https://github.com/garlick/pi-parport I had been wondering if a paraport emulator or an SSerial adapter could be made for the Pi GPIO The new question is can it be shoehorned into a realtime environment. I was thinking a ODroid XU4 imaged with DietPi and building upwards from that foundation. Worst case I use a genuine Pi 3 with the flash update to boot from external HDD (no more SDcard drama) What say the hive mind? Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] CRS - Changelog
Mark; Way back when I was making the transition from Slackware to Red Hat I teamed up with another local fellow on a little project. He was much better with disciplined technique than I was. He kept a spiral notebook for each PC and would copy down the entire line, file path and date/time before doing any edit so that when he broke it he would have the exact syntax to repair the damage. I had learned that I needed to take notes, but he had it down to a fine science. These written notes with LCNC I find to be a life saver when upgrading between major versions, esp if skipping a version. (2.4 to 2.6) RE Z axis lock - This function worked perfect on OKUMA OSP controls - likely due to the use of absolute position encoders. When running a program with the Z lock the machine would still execute tool changes and run the spindle & coolant unless you had also engaged the STM lock. The easy way of just setting your Z0 higher is not so easy for some machines with less than 5 inches Z travel. Routers and knee mills with a Z quill come to mind. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
I started using SolidWorks about 2000 and bought my own license in 2004. When the market effectively died in 2007 I decided to let the SW maintenance expire since it wasn't earning its keep. In 2010 I bought the full monte Alibre Design Expert package and it has served me well doing most everything SW was for 1/3 the cost. I also use the Mecsoft AlibreCAM plugin for milling. I will skip the drama of Alibre being bought out by 3D systems before the founding Alibre staff ransomed back the company. My main fault with the Alibre staff is they based the product on the Visual DotNet platform. (bad programers - should have to go sit in a corner and write a loop that prints "I will not write code that links dot net libraries!" in assembly code a million times.) But to be honest for most work, the fastest solution for a 2 1/2D program is to fire up a DOSBox window and run a virtual x86 session for BoBCAD gold v12 DOS edition. I can draw or solve needed geometry and generate the basic gcode in a few minutes. Due to being compiled for DOS (circa 1991) I can run the DOSBox app on a raspberry pi and for BOBCAD its like running on a CRAY super computer. Its greatest detraction is the built in DOS VGA output coding which leaves you stuck with only 640x480 as your only output option. I once inquired about obtaining the rights to the source code for V12 and V14, but BOBCAD was content to keep the DOS version dead and buried. V12 was rock stable, V14 I can not comment on as I waited too late to consider upgrading and the NEW Windows (buggy as an ant hill) version was out. Serious thought - if a group of serious programmers formed a open source CAD/CAM project for Linux and could show the community a viable 2 1/2 D CADCAM suite with a structured published goal list I think many of us using Windows based warez that are paying yearly maintenance fees would consider signing on as patrons. The ultimate goal would be to drop the commercial warez once the software matures enough to cover a users needs. I would be paying $1200/yr just to keep my warez up to date. If I could drop the commercial warez to run open source and be a $400/yr patron I would be thrilled. Having the option to request certain new features and being able to add an additional donation incentive would also be nice. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] ETA of v2.8?
Again I would like to that those who continue the development of LCNC. With the recent release of v2.7.13 where does that put us towards the release of v2.8? Thanks for the update! Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gerber Dimension 200
Todd; Could it be that they are just hiding a parallel interface by mimicking a Centronix cable pin out? Just the first thought that hit me when I saw that 37 pin connection. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Tapping not slipping
My personal choice has been a CAT40 with rigid Bilz #1 holder, or a U200 shank with very minimal tension compression and Bilz #1 holder Bilz holders appear a bit pricey but you won't need many sizes and you can swap taps and holders while keeping the same offset - I'd say mine repeat to about 0.0025" I have put the shank in a CNC and just swapped tap holders on jobs which had too many different threads. I also have some 3/4" shank tension/compression #1 holders - but they are like 4 inches long. I can't use these on a BP style 3 axis CNC with only 5" Z quill travel. I hope to some day add a "W" axis so I can use the knee to compensate for tool length. OK - I know this won't work for Gene... but may help others. I don't think you will find tap drive R8's simply based on how it would have to be made. But you could buy some 3/4" Drill rod. Chop off a chunk that is the length of the shank and flats. Drill the corners then the center of the drive square and mill a square pocket about 1/4" deep with maybe a 3/32" EM. Turn the part around and drill til it just breaks into the square, then bore/ream to shank size. You would put this drive bushing in a R8 solid Weldon type 3/4" endmill holder. Mark where the set screw would contact bushing then bore a clearance hole with a 2F endmill so the R8 holder set screw is able to clamp directly on the tap shank. Usually long before I have to worry about a tap slipping I have chosen to thread mill. You can buy cheap Chicom import threading insert boring bars that you can grind extra clearance on and mount on center in a ER32 or even 3/4" Weldon that will work for thread milling. There are many ways to skin this cat - but with 9 lives just be sure its dead before you start. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] 3D Printed parts as the starting point for CNC conversion.
3D printed parts are a great way to jump start a CNC conversion. I do think care needs to be used when making motor mounts. Steppers that run well usually run hot, and I do mean temps comparable to what the hot bed of the printer operates at. One of the best uses of a 3D part is the ball nut holder. You can fit it up, grid some off, get the height just perfect and measure what the final version needs. Items with thrust bearings - not so good. Most filaments distort under pressure - and that is at 100% infill. Designs like the one posted is complicated - but designed towards 3D printing. That same motor mount could be made in simplest form with a single plate and a pair of standoffs. Again design by target method of manufacture. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] CSS and threading.
My industrial CNC turning center with 2 speed geared head and 15hp spindle has a table of thread pitch vrs max threading rpm. The issue isn't as much acceleration at the start of the thread as it is being able to make a perfect 90° retract when threading up to a shoulder. On threads which are the same nominal diameter as the material a threading exit can be a 135° and can be safely pushed a bit more it you also allow lead in space at the start. CSS with threading is generally just a bad idea. the only time I have done it was on large 2" NPT fittings running in low gear. I also write my NPT threading cycles deeper (Z) to thread out to a dia. larger than the material when ever possible. Basically think of it this way as a programmer. A G00 X command should never be found within the program path while CSS is active. Pre-calculate the required S value for your initial positioning move and have that as your M03 S so that when CSS is activated the machine does not need to make an instantaneous correction. Greg, Out yonder in Yoder. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Avoiding probe crash
I like Seb's version with the exception that a probe trigger E-stop. Personally I would prefer the option to invoke a motion/feed hold command with alarm vrs E-stop since many machines can stop faster under power. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Looking for examples of conversational machine interface
The "Gold Standard" for conversational control has been Hurco. Hurco trademarked the term "conversational control" sometime back in the late 70's or early 80's. And in fact someone once asserted that Hurco had made more money through lawsuits of trademark and copy write infringement than they had selling machine tools. That aside, if you have had an extended opportunity to use a Hurco control you would likely agree they have pretty well owned the idea. I have 2 Hurco mills in my shop now. Both dead. One is in process of getting a LinuxCNC retrofit. The other I hope to restore to the OEM config. The one which I hope to restore was damaged while in storage while I was relocating my shop. Since it was not in use, mice decided it would make a great Hotel. They got in to the control pendant support arm and made nests inside the control console. They pissed all over a few PCB's and chewed through several cables. I consider myself very lucky as the mill getting the LinuxCNC retrofit will be supplying perfect condition replacement parts for the mouse damage. When running a Hurco in Conversational mode you never saw a G-Code. Now it appears that you can add G-Code in the current WinMax system. I have only used Ultimax II, and Max32. I still have not seen anything that can go from paper print to part faster than the Hurco Conversational system. OTOH the motion of the earlier (DOS - 8086-80386) versions were not as optimal as an expert hand written G-code program for mass production. For lots under 1K it was hard to beat. The Hurco was in a shop I worked at years ago along with Okuma and Mori Seiki high speed VMC's. The Hurco was the 2nd oldest CNC in the shop and yet it could finish a job in the time it took the CAD/CAM team to have a production ready program and setup on the "high speed" machines. To get a good idea of how well the software worked watch this demo video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=34&v=v3Gtw0pazn4 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] showstopper on gear change tally.
Personally I would like to come up with a simple test cycle to verify that the machine has been manually set in the correct gear without any switches. Having a Bridgeport type machine I can adjust speed manually assuming the machine is in the right High/Low range. Simply command the VFD to start and run for 3-5 seconds at the minimum functional no load speed say 3-10Hz and read in the tach ( index ) signal and with a lookup table identify the current gear. If the gear verifies the M3/M4 then accelerates the spindle to the S value. This would error if machine is out of range 60-500 for low, 500-4000rpm in high. It could also be used if spindle is in correct gear range for me to adjust the RPM and hold motion until the tach reads Spindle-At-Speed. Look up table works well for geared lathes and step puley type machines as well. While the paranoid engineer in me says hard wired fall backs are always the best choice I also know that as people reach a point in the build they want to use the machine for real work - often before all limits and other wiring is complete. I admit I am in this group as I will need to use my mill to complete part of the final control chassis. As is it is mounted via wood supports and is free standing. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3
On Tuesday, October 17, 2017, 4:28:37 AM MDT, andy pugh wrote: On 17 October 2017 at 07:47, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users wrote: > Ideally it would be great if someone could design a cape/hat/shield/ whatever > that mates to the Rpi/BBB and could approximate a EPP parallel port. The hardware part exists. https://photos.app.goo.gl/SGKipu5XFvjNscfy2 (The chip is a level-shifter) I made 20 but I think I gave them all away. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 So the big question is - does the PC type EPP communication require an x86 architecture type interrupt and is there a way to write a driver that can provide that function. Using the external FPGA cards offloads much of the traffic from the unit running LCNC and hopefully will allow acceptable GUI performance. Using these boards Ethernet port as a dedicated port is an option, but then you need to add a second network connection via USB if I understand correctly. When USB started getting really popular with scanners and printers I was working help desk. We defined USB to mean Unilaterally Sucks Bad. The other little item I have been looking for is a small mega-capacitor mini-UPS that can be wired in to handle boot and power off but otherwise keep the unit alive during minor disruptions. Greg Bentzinger--- -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Pine64 / Rpi3
I don't know how long the Pine64 will be available. The Raspberry Pi group on the other hand I expect will be around for the long haul just like the original Arduino project. Beagle Bone may not be moving forward anytime soon, but it looks like Centroid has gone in deep for that platform for there low end controller. Ideally it would be great if someone could design a cape/hat/shield/ whatever that mates to the Rpi/BBB and could approximate a EPP parallel port. I know there are existing BBB capes that route PRU stepgens to DB25 and I am not recommending revisiting that. Don't get me wrong as I am in no way advocating trying to hook up a standard parallel step/direction type BOB. What I would hope for is a reliable interface that could be used to drive Pico FPGA hardware or MESA 7i90 or 7i43 boards. Another option would be MESA SSERIAL. This would open all sorts of options. I am slowly conceptualizing how I want to do a scratch build CNC conversion on my G0602. As crazy as it might seem the driving reason to do this is power savings. My existing CNCturning center is a 23KvA machine and heats the whole shop when running. That machine is such overkill for so much of the small simple parts I often do. Peter - any chance an SSERIAL adapter could be made? Greg Bentzinger -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Open source / PowerBasic
Chris - I think the $99 price is for the PowerBasic version which fully supports W32 DLL's. I seem to recall the DOS only version was $19 or less - Though when I bought the full development package it was $49 for 2 CDs full of great tools. But that was maybe just before Win XP was released. I still have several solid DOS programs that no one since has put out a better product - so I still keep a good dependable DOS based system on hand. I love my BobCAD v12 for DOS. ( I will admit since BobCad went to windows it has been less than marginal) I can see that trying to port from PowerBasic to a different language would be very difficult, and likely counter productive. Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Present state of Tormach PathPilot relative to LinuxCNC
Actually Andy - The idea is have both as a dual boot system. I actually was thinking more about adding PP to my Hurco KM3 retrofit, but my understanding was PP had configs for each Tormach machine so lathe and mill versions were in the same release revision. I started out doing programming on paper, then using a teletype to make punched paper tapes... So when I moved to Colorado and they dropped me in front of a Hurco with Ultimax II Conversational programming, I was so lost. I mean I had never seen a CNC machine which did not have an MDI mode. How do you do setup without MDI... Well I learned. I found that for some jobs I could be programmed and to the point of mounting tools before the CAD people could get the part blank defined. OTOH the conversational routines were often one size fits all and there might be un-needed air cutting as part of the program. So Conversational was great for short runs, but high production it was better to use offline CAD/CAM and then tweak that code into the best method for mass machining. Software selection is just another list of tools at our disposal. I use at least 8 warez to generate G-code and many programs will have sections from different warez packages combined into the single program. Or I may just stand at the machine and type in code on the fly. After doing this 30+ years its easy. The Hurco would boot into Ultimax by default, but it could be told to reboot into NC Executive ( Hurco's fancy name for basic RS274-D G-code). I used both. I see no reason to limit my options now that the machines core control will be based on LinuxCNC. But - I'm not going to let the state of Path Pilot slow down the conversion. On Monday, July 24, 2017, 4:54:23 PM MDT, andy pugh wrote: On 22 July 2017 at 22:27, Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users wrote: > I ask this as I am considering a conversion on a benchtop lathe I keep for > simple second op work Do you really need the conversational stuff that PP has, or could you just use ordinary LinuxCNC? I was using a lathe this weekend that was running Gmoccapy with NativeCAM and it was very usable, if not quite so fancy-looking as PP. Most of my work is done using Touchy with my own set of simple macros: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=150#82743 -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Present state of Tormach PathPilot relative to LinuxCNC
I am assuming that we are not too far from the release of v2.8. That said, my question is, has Tormach been updating PathPilot as LinuxCNC has moved forward or is it still a heavily patched and modified v2.6.x? Or maybe I should be asking: Is there a relatively simple way to run a PathPilot GUI front end on a v2.8 LinuxCNC install? I ask this as I am considering a conversion on a benchtop lathe I keep for simple second op work because it is significantly less than the expense of getting 3phase to my CNC Turning center, and orders have rarely reached 200 qty lately. I know this is less profitable, but at the moment I have been forced to outsource work I can't do on the manual machines. Outsourcing is even less profitable and I have had to eat a few jobs. The turning center is paid off so its only costing me floor space, but eventually its going to have to pay its own rent. Thanks all, Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Lathe Project - Dummy rounds.
We did a run almost 20 years ago. Used a thick brass base which had the extractor groove and a bit of the body. It was extended and threaded so a chunk of black delrin screwed on and was CNC turned in place. NOT COST Effective. For common brass - drill out primer pocket a bit oversize, seat and crimp a heavy jacket FMJ projectile then use about 1cc of thin epoxy through the primer hole to keep things in place. You could neck size 7.62x39 steel cases and drill out the Berdan Primers. This would be extra cheap. Greg - Former 07 FFL -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] tach/generator/encoder
The way I read the manual page 24 section H. It is saying the tach is a better option for fine motor control, but not required. If you are using a spindle encoder as a tach source to have LinuxCNC control a +/- 10VDC connected between terminals COM and SIG (see figure 14). As Jon stated you will need a spindle control board that is isolated on power and ground - This is not just talking about opto isolators. That is a Cadillac of KB controllers as most will accept speed control - but not allow reversing without using an external physical switch/contactor and that is sensitive to switching under load. Be careful - no magic smoke! - bad for your health and painful in the wallet. Greg - Out yonder in Yoder. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] RPi and the endless saga of SDcard grief.
List users; I have been a RPI user since the first B version came out. I been through the "Oops the O/s is toast again" routine more than I care to count. I blame it on very poor choices for the voltage regulator and the choices of the micro USB as a power connector. Arduino scroes an A for using the round type and allowing a higher voltage source (say 9VDC)that could take up slack and small line disturbances. I now only do a minimalist O/S install on the SDcard and run apps and storage off a USB thumb drive. However Gene appears to need many gigs (for the HAL files) and wants real Linux file system permissions. No I don't even own a Rpi 3, and documentation for this item is almost as sparse as Orange pi/ up boards etc. I am suggestion even another Amazon shopping expedition. See https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XJNN2MZ The X800 PCB for RPi adds a 2.5" laptop HDD to the mix. I don't know if you can eliminate SDcards entirely or if you might still need to use one for a bootloader. Having a dozen 2GB sdcards with only a bootloader img will save your recovery times dramatically. An yeah form what you have described adding this card will yet again cause the enclosure door to not want to close... Pick your preferred poisons. Greg, Out yonder in Yoder CO. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] SF mailing list seems to be flaking out.
List; I am setup to get the digest version to reduce the total number of emails I have to sort through each day. So far for MAY I have received Digests 1-3, 6, 8-11. I checked the spam traps and trash folders and I have nothing out of place. Anyone else seeing issues? Greg -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Subject: Re: Gui Feature Request
Okuma has had this feature going back to the time when the tape reader would rewind, then read through a punch tape to find the named program. They called this type a "Schedule" program and it had a file type of something like .skd or some such. In later CNC controls (OSP3000 or later (late 70's early 80's)) this feature was normally used with the tool management option which tracked each tools actual cutting time and would "replace" the tool with its designated spare once the allotted cut time had expired. So even though your program called tool #2 the machine would call #20 and used the H & D values for #20 until you reset the tool management for tool #2. If you are PROPERLY utilizing the tool table and work coordinate offsets there is no reason why you can't run several different programs back to back sharing the same tools in the ATC without any issues. Often the limiting factors are work area real estate and the capacity of your ATC. I have been lucky in that most machines I have had to program multiple concurrent jobs on have been big enough. The Okuma MC4-VAE-HS had a 32 tool ATC, The Mori Seiki SV50 had 30 and the Kitamura HX400 had 50. The HX400 also had like 106 Work shift offsets. While this starts going off topic - In the real world of factory production, labor and machines are only earning there keep when the spindles are running. This means that everything that can be done without interfering with that goal is done. Running the HX400 I was the primary operator, with a assistant. Loading and unloading two 4 sided tombstones while the machine was running and doing in process inspection and QC took every spare second. We took staggered breaks. Tools would be mounted up in the CAT40 holders and offsets determained by a Mititoyo CMM. A program would be generated that was nothing but a long list of G10's and that program was on a floppy disk that was put in a pocket on the tool cart with a printout telling the operator which tool went in each ATC pocket. Often the ATC magazine loading was done while the machine was running. Labor costs (and shop floor real estate) are high in first world countries. To stay competitive manufacturing applies technology as much as is practical to maintain high output and efficiency. Greg, out yonder in Yoder, CO. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Bridgeport servo troubleshooting
Quote: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 13:21:05 - From: "Ben Potter" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Bridgeport servo troubleshooting To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)'" Message-ID: <007401d295b3$58698280$093c8780$@bpuk.org> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" >From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > > On 03/04/2017 11:37 AM, Ben Potter wrote: > > Yes, but the same drive connected to the X motor/tacho also runs at max speed. Have not tried the X drive connected to the Z motor. > Don't, until you have checked the motor for intermittent shorts to ground. (Since you put the drive back, and it doesn't blow fuses any more, but spins, this is a bit less likely, but you don't want to risk popping any more amplifiers. > > Most likely it was a transistor that failed to the shorted condition, that has now been blown open. Turning the motor by hand with the multimeter attached gives me either infinity, or 30-35 Mega Ohms between the power input and ground. Can't find a dead short - but I'm surprised that I'm getting _any_ path there. End Quote: My mid 80's Hurco manuals have a service chart which wants the motor and tach brushes checked and brush dust blown out with clean dry air every hours use. I have actually done this (more than once) because the servos were accessible. I suspect the 35Mega Ohm is a short at one brush holder caused by the brush dust. I admit that the monster FANUC yellow cap motors on my Hitachi Seiki Turning center have never been touched since the machine was delivered in 86. That machine was designed to run production, and God help you if you ever need to do service or repairs. Greg Out yonder in Yoder, CO -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] OT - Advice on processor board for indexer project.
Greetings list members; With all the talk or ARM vrs AVR vrs all others etc. I have a question for those who might be able to point me towards a workable solution. Back in the early 80's my uncle purchased a HAAS 5C programmable indexer. This is the hardware that basically was the original foundation of the HAAS machine tool empire. The unit was built on a 5C indexer casting and assy made to spec by Yuasa and HAAS mounted a unipolar stepper motor inside a finned cast Aluminum cover. The unit was connected to the control box via 10 foot plastic coated 3/4" flex with a large 7 pin round Amphenol connector. Programming was all done via front panel numeric key pad. Storage allowed up to 3 programs of 99 lines each. Subroutines and loops were possible. Use with manual machines used a remote start button, which would single step through the program. Connection to CNC equipment was via 4 wire connection to provide a cycle start signal and a cycle complete status return signal. A single M code was required. Unit had to be manually zeroed during setup and care was required to compare dial on indexer with display position while running production as it was an open loop system. Sadly the control has died, and looking inside the box shows this was built almost 100% discrete components and of the few IC's that are used most have been out of production for a decade or 2. HAAS basically told me I was SOL and that they don't have any staff left who understand this dino hardware, and won't try because key components have been un-obtainium for many years. The indexer is very well built and just by not connecting certain pins the motor can be driven Bipolar, that is the great news. However I will need to build a controller/driver/power supply unit to run this. - - - Now I will say that for my Hurco KM3 kneemill conversion to LCNC I will let LCNC drive it directly. But Hurco #1 which still uses the OEM control will need the blind cycle start / cycle complete interface with all 4th axis programming done in the indexer control. I also have manual mills and drill presses etc. where I will require the stand alone functionality. Using LCNC for the stand alone control seems like using a nuke to blow up an ant hill. I tried using an Arduino to run an automated bullet lube sizer machine and it was a dismal failure. Not sure if the stepper drive or stepper PWS was causing the issues with the Arduino but when I drove the system via LCNC it worked exactly as programmed. The Arduino would sometimes fail to set the correct direction and the unit would try to start in reverse near a hard stop - so it would rip teeth of the belt. Plus the quality of the pulse stream was hideous. Others, however have apparently been successful using and Arduino for a stepper indexer - but once bitten... I'm trying to use this in an industrial setting, not like someone trying to spin Nema 17's on there desktop with a Pololu A4983. I need a solution I can trust. I am a Machinist first - though for some reason I seem to be hired for computer and electronic type jobs more than I make chips. I have no formal training in electronics so its safe to say I end up having to do constant research to be able to fix things as they go awry. The one problem I don't know how to solve is with a Arduino type system - is there a way to input the motion program, manually via keypad, into the controller and have that program stored in nonvolatile memory. I have several RPi's - and that is another disaster I intend to avoid - because it will work fine for a few months then suddenly the SD card is toast, wipe and reformat and it works fine in cameras or other devices. Given any length of time a Pi will eventually fail you. And remember this application requires stand alone capability - no network. Now - something completely different and more on topic There used to be a retrofit system called ProtoTrak used on Bridgeport type mills and lathes to allow manual, CNC assist, and in some cases full CNC control. I was wondering if LCNC could be configured to drive steppers in velocity mode using a feedback signal split off from the machines DRO scales to provide near functionality. Velocity mode was due to the fact that I would use something like O-ring type friction belts not a toothed belt - something that could be released easily when not needed - even between position moves, since the control is always tracking position from the DRO. It would require some type of soft key to enable/disable position holding. The ProtoTrak system used ballscrews and servos but when you switched to DRO mode it let the servos freewheel and there was very little drag. OTOH I have used CNC conversions others have done which retained handles and cranks. Even with the drivers set as non-enabled the parasitic drag of having to move the machine plus stepper m otor drag was considerable, even on those dinky small motors. Even if the system
[Emc-users] Pet Projects
"I WAS hoping to make it a flying trip. My cousin had offered to fly me up in his Mooney, but it doesn't look like we will have it done in time. We still have to replace a couple of wing skins, add a speed mod to the cowl, and re-paint the plane. Yesterday, he found out that he's getting laid off on the 1st... -- MC Cason" This is Murphy's Law for pet projects. Be it machine conversions, shop space expansions etc. When there is money there is no time, when there is time, there is no money. Whats worse is you can not buy spare time at any price, yet when your "un-employed" it seems you can't sell your spare time. Greg Bentzinger, out yonder in Colorado. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Wiring up a 7i77
Quote: Message: 6 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 22:16:12 -0500 From: Dave Cole Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Wiring up a 7i77 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > The front panel terminal block sources 12VDC for switch closures, but the > inputs are 24V tolerant for external wiring. Are you sure about that?Unless they changed the specs and I didn't realize it, the Teco Servo drives are not. Dave -- /Quote: OK Dave - You kicked in my Paranoia. Confirmed: Page 16 in the original provided manual, and page 18 in the downloadable PDF manual. Wiring diagram for external 24VDC of TM2 input terminal block. But this is a TECO FM50-203 VFD, not a servo drive. I been digging through Hurco wiring diagrams, Mesa manuals, the Whole LCNC 2.8pre documentation pdf so I was suddenly worried the wires might have gotten crossed in my gray matter. Thankfully there it was in bold large type, proof I have not gone senile yet. Thanks Dave - I'd rather get false alarms, then sleep through the fire. ___ Quote: From: andy pugh To: Greg Bentzinger CC: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)Nov 23 at 9:55 AM Message body On 23 November 2016 at 16:47, Greg Bentzinger wrote: > Being a BridgePort type clone you need FWD and REV because what is considered > FWD depends on if you are in High Gear (500-4000) or Back gear (low) 60-499 > RPM. I see a very simple solution: Fit a microswitch on the high/low speed gear selector and use that to operate the reverse input. /Quote: Andy I have seen that done a few times, and each instance it looked as if the slightest touch would cause the switch to fall off. I have seen this done using nothing more than double sided tape with exposed spade wiring. - This is not for me right now. However, after this machine has allowed me to get caught up I will dig into my 1990 KM3P with the Hurco MAX32 control. I hope to revive that 80386/80387 16MHz Dinosaur to its full OEM splendor which really was great for Conversational programming or loading DXF wire frames and defining how they were to be machined. It can also run its tripped down version of RS274D Gcode. When the 1990 KM3p is working I will pull the head on the 1987 KM3 and use the KM3p to do my best to replicate Jon Elson's tooth sensor/encoder mod and also drill through and tap the chassis for a prox sensor which can sense if the back gear is in the lower position and wire this into the spindle direction logic. Also while the head is torn down I will put in fresh bearings for the Vari-Drive supports and any other non Quill spindle bearings. __ Now I have an idea, and I don't know if it is something I can do via HAL or CL or if it would need to be a feature request. Many LCNC machines were manual machines users converted to CNC. Often these machines had step pulleys or gear change levers to set spindle speed at rated motor rpm. Some times step pulleys are removed or reduced to only 2 or 3 speeds and speed would be controlled within that gears range. Running the motor near its rated nameplate RPM helps with proper motor cooling and best torque output. A step pulley Bridgeport head has 8 speeds (IIRC). Running this on a VFD would allow the user to tune (S) the RPM to eliminate the gaps between the manual speeds, yet run an older non-inverter rated motor near its nameplate RPM (Hz). Now what I would like is a way that the first M3|M4 executed for a given speed range would start the spindle to about 10% or whatever the lowest usable percentage above 10% is - then check tach or encoder feedback to verify that the machine is in the proper manually selected gear. This start at 10% and once proper gear is confirmed, go to programmed S would only need to be done on the first M3|M4 for that speed range and would not need to be done again until a S that falls beyond that gear range is called. Am I making any sense here? Almost always the spindle is not under any load but its own inertia until after a spindle at speed signal is active, so running the motor at 10% for a second should have minimal effect other than the brief pause. Likewise the test would be complete before any spindle sync motion call would be started. Thanks for the feedback. Greg out Yonder in Yoder CO. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Wiring up a 7i77
___ From: andy pugh To: Greg Bentzinger ; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Wiring up a 7i77 On 22 November 2016 at 22:54, Greg Bentzinger wrote: > The technical details in the manual are very sparse and from what I can > gather the speed input is not tolerant of negative voltage. Direction appears > to be controlled solely by a FWD or REV inputs. That is how I read it too. I suggest initially making sure that you use the motion.spindle-speed-out-abs pin to drive analog-output 5. The reason to use output 5 is that that has an independent enable output controled by the 7i77.0.1.spinena HAL pin (numbers 0 to 4 all switch together on 7i77.0.1.analogena). You can use that enable to turn the spindle on and off. Do you need spindle reverse? Setting parameter F03 to 1 sets the inverter up such that input 3 is On/Off and the input 4 is FWD/REV. This is the the way you probably want to wire it. 7i77 pin 21 ENA5- -> Inverter 3 (FWD) 7i77 pin 22 ENA5+ -> Inverter 6 (+12V) 7i77 pin 23 GND -> Inverter 10 ( 0V) 7i77 pin 24 AOUT5 -> Inverter 9 (MVI) In HAL (assuming 5000 rpm spindle) net spindle-cmd motion.spindle-cmd-out-abs => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5 net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinout-maxlim 5000 setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinout-minlim 0 setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinout-scalemax 5000 That should be enough to give you spindle control in the fwd direction at least. > The CMC/Randtronics Servomate amps have a voltage output (not sure if its > -10V -0V- +10V or just 0-10V) to indicate actual servo load, can the analog > voltage sensing inputs read this such that I could use the feedback for a > GladeVCP loadmeter panel? Yes, that should be possible. The inputs are 33.6V @ 8 bits, so 0.12V absolute resolution. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 Andy - Well that is a start. Being a BridgePort type clone you need FWD and REV because what is considered FWD depends on if you are in High Gear (500-4000) or Back gear (low) 60-499 RPM. However since I have had a stack of castings sitting in wait for 6 weeks I would gladly settle for just being able to get FWD and REV online and lie in the Gcode with a M4 for FWD in low. The motor runs as on|off and all speed adjustments are done via pulley adjustments. I do not want to use the VFD to control speed as it is an Economy model not well suited to such a task (word directly from a TECO engineer I met at a trade show) More later - I just was paged for a service call. Greg -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Wiring up a 7i77
This feels like someone just dumped a plate of Spaghetti in my lap. It is overwhelming. Of course every manufacture has to adopt different terms for the same type of signals which doesn't make things any easier. So first problem is deciding the best method for interfacing the TECO FM50-203 VFD (3Hp - 2.2Kw). This is a very basic VFD that is often wired with a SPDT switch for direction and a pot for speed. The front panel terminal block sources 12VDC for switch closures, but the inputs are 24V tolerant for external wiring. Max Hz is set as a parameter then scaled to a 0 to 10V and can accept 12V for max speed. The technical details in the manual are very sparse and from what I can gather the speed input is not tolerant of negative voltage. Direction appears to be controlled solely by a FWD or REV inputs. Currently I have the accel and decel times set to ramp up to 60Hz over 3 seconds and using the front panel control buttons to manually operate the unit. There is no breaking resistor installed yet as I will need the machine running to fab mounts. I only intend to control spindle motor On|Off and direction. My Hurco KM3 is like a Bridgeport and uses variable pulleys to set actual spindle speed. I have a 5VDC power supply feeding TB1 on the 7i77, and a 24VDC feeding TB2 pins 1-5. I have not applied power as yet (nervous)! If I am reading the 7i77 manual correctly the TB7/TB8 will require 24V based inputs to be seen. My limit switch wiring is all 5VDC and there is only a single +5VDC feed to the servo which drives both the encoder and limits. Knowing this should I not use the 5V on TB3 to power each encoder and limit and use power from TB1? Also, will I need to use relays to bring the six 5V limit switch signals to 24V? One last item on my wish list of questions. The CMC/Randtronics Servomate amps have a voltage output (not sure if its -10V -0V- +10V or just 0-10V) to indicate actual servo load, can the analog voltage sensing inputs read this such that I could use the feedback for a GladeVCP loadmeter panel? I know just enough to be scared of all the possible ways to cause a magic smoke event. I feel like I'm tip toeing through a mine field. Not too far down the road once the machine is running in a basic config I will need to wire in the M7, M8 and a MPG For now I just need to get up and running enough to use a single tool, cutting dry to machine the hinge mount surfaces on a batch of cast iron parts. I did a stepper based machine conversion back about Ver 2.3, but this is a whole new ball game when you have to reverse engineer some of the existing hardware. Thanks for any advice. Happy Holidays in advance. Greg, Out yonder in Yoder, Colorado. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Ver 2.8
Not trying to pester anyone. I am finally getting down to the actual electrical install and beginning to wire things up. So I am going to need HALui and many of the other tools to sort out signals soon. Just wondering if there is any vague idea as to when V2.8 will go mainstream or if I should just work with 2.7.x for now. This is for my #2 Hurco, a 1987 KM3 Knee type with Quill Z axis. I will be using a 5i25/7i77 driving Randtronics/CMC ServoMate amps with Electrocraft 4 brush servos with tach & encoder feedback. Initially it should be fairly simple. X/Y/Z M3/M4/M5 M8/M9 with the actual rpm set by the hand crank Vari-belt drive and no rpm feedback. Once that is up and running awhile I will try to fix Hurco #1 OEM control - I never considered how much damage could be done by allowing the backup (BIOS) battery to go dead. Machine can't even read the OEM keyboard because it can't find the HDD to load the driver. When Hurco #1 is back in the game we will go back and upgrade Hurco #2 adding gear tooth sensors, complete a full 4th axis, rig a stepper to preset the Vari-drive to nominal then allow a VFD to compensate for changing cutter loads. If things go really well I might even jump the shark and add a "W" axis powered knee. I'm guessing that there won't be a last call for v2.8 until after the FEST but I was wondering if there was a wild guess in the back of someones mind as to when that might be. And thanks everyone for your work! Greg, out yonder in Colorado. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Haas thoughts
Perspective on anything read on cnccookbook.com Keep in mind that site exists to promote his software and his articles are written by someone who does not have long term (if any) experience with "Big Iron" in an industrial business environment. His opinions are biased towards the hobby/semi-pro market as that is the best he knows. Some info offers keen insights, while others are plain wrong. His software can be helpful if you are willing to make a windows PC with internet connection available to employees on the floor. ( Network connection is required so software can phone home to validate your subscription license.) Personally I use the other (competitor) option which has a Buy once cry once license option and is cross platform so it will run on my Android phone as well as PC. I know there are a very large group who loves the HAAS control, I however, after having to try and keep 8 lathes and 3 mills running and knew my Haas repair crew better than any other vendor, so I'm definitely not one of those fan boys. I like toggle switches and rotary knobs I can see status from 10m or yrds away. Plus tapping a membrane key to increment up or down a feed rate or spindle speed seems just wrong on a full sized machine. (Desktop mini router - I can see running just a kyb and E-Stop.) Not sure if Mesa's SSerial card for pendants could do that. There is definitely money to be made if some enterprising person or company were to make a plug in adapter harness for Haas and FADAL control consoles. Greg Bentzinger out yonder in Colorado -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Rotary table indexer project
Chris; I only would request B-Directional as a time saver. I had a HAAS 5C indexer which used stepper motors and it was reasonably fast - even so, indexing often was the largest portion of total program run time. For small indexers that most of us will make from small rotary tables, they will likely be driven by low end steppers. These cheap rotary tables are also notorious for having tight spots because the gear was not mounted perfectly concentric. As the home builder/ converter we have to go to the lowest common denominator and keep the max step rate down to where the motor has excess torque at the tightest area. Moving Negative 60 degrees is alot faster than moving 300 degrees. This is fine for a hobby user, but I earn a major portion of my income from production machine jobs. Some say time is money, but more importantly you can never buy more time. I have worked 20hr days to meet delivery deadlines and God as my witness you can look at me now and know I really needed that beauty slee p! The remote cycle start and cycle ready/complete are function options on most commercial CNC machines - how they are used is up to the machine integrator. Same in LCNC.There is no specific LCNC code for this, but there are definable M codes and depending on your hardware will determine how you would configure this. LCNC would have no "Knowledge" of indexer position, only if its ready or moving. I guess you could add another output for home that could be used to verify that all moves in the cycle had completed properly. ( The sum of all incremental moves would bring indexer back to its starting point. ) You are also correct about the mechanics - every table seems to have its own individual custom requirements. A company I worked for bought 5 "identical" units and was intending to use a single servo to drive them all. Each one had bolt holes in different locations. I swear I think most Chicom machines are just free hand drilled with a drill press without even doing hole position layout. Greg From: Chris Albertson To: Greg Bentzinger ; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 4:25 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary table indexer project This is the kind of ideas I was looking for. Two questions: (1) What does bi-directional get you that can't be done by going all the way around. Maybe it takes longer to rotate 360+ degrees?Is there any other reason? Technically it is very easy to run bidirectional but I could not see a reason. (2) I did not know about "remote cycle start input and a cycle complete" in LinuxCNC. Got a pointer to the documents? If it could be done with a TTL level pins then adding this is free. A serial interface is also easy to add. Does LinuxCNC have a way to send data? The hardest part of building this is the mechanics. Cutting metal has to be custom engineered for each rotary table. I can host the software and schematics on GitHub. On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:35 AM, Greg Bentzinger wrote: Chris; > >I would add a remote cycle start input and a cycle complete output that could >be optionally hooked into LCNC. > > >Likewise I would allow bi-directional positioning moves. Just add a small >overshoot value and and feed back into position to maintain consistent preload >in one direction. > >I would be very interested in duplicating your Arduino indexer controller as I >often have parts I need to cut a hex drive feature on. > >Thanks; > >Greg > > >-- -- >-- >__ _ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge. net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Rotary table indexer project
Chris; I would add a remote cycle start input and a cycle complete output that could be optionally hooked into LCNC. Likewise I would allow bi-directional positioning moves. Just add a small overshoot value and and feed back into position to maintain consistent preload in one direction. I would be very interested in duplicating your Arduino indexer controller as I often have parts I need to cut a hex drive feature on. Thanks; Greg -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need unlocked copy of a pdf for a breakout board I just bought two of.
Gene; See the attached pdf I made. This is the pinouts as I read them from the ebay display images. It doesn't answer everything and I think you will want to use the B axis for spindle control since this BoB only provides for On/Off but no direction. Another oddity if I read things correctly is that the A axis had a limit input but nothing for the B axis (which is partly why I would use B for spindle control.) I am sending this direct to you since I believe the PDF will get stripped off on the list. Greg in Colorado breakout board pin outs.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What does "CNC" really mean?
CNC is one of those acronyms that we are stuck with. The more things chance the more they stay the same. The term "Horseless Carriage' has mostly died out except here in Colorado where they still issue legacy "Horseless Carriage" license plates for extremely old vehicles. But today they still call the 4 wheelers a CAR (riage) and Auto-mobile. Note that in G-Code we still use M2 to indicate the end of a program and many machines still use M30 which was the original M-Code to start the rewind of the NC paper tape back to the leader section. The % sign was used to indicate the end of the feed leader and beginning of the actual program. At the tail end the % told the teltype to punch the trailing leader (3' to 7' different machine readers had different needs). A good way to describe the differences between CNC and NC would be that you could not edit an NC program. If there were changes you could load a tape, line by line, via teletype with tape reader, add or remove commands by typing them in as a new tape was made. Another legacy factor that still haunts us is that NC code did not support cutter compensation and was all spindle center. Most CAD/CAM systems still program this way only using G41/G42 for very minor wear corrections. ( hang the lazy b@$tards ) An NC tape reading control - that would read a single line of code and execute it, then advance the tape reading the next line and execute etc. BTW this is also where the history of the term Single block came from, not allowing the tape reader to read the next line until you pressed the start button. A 2 axis control unit was the size of a US family home refrigerator, or 1m x 1m x 2m for those elsewhere in the world. I still have a few coffee cans full of the Aluminum 35mm film cans with many of the punched tapes I had to make in College to earn the title of CNC Machinist and programmer. Anyone remember Florida and the issue of "Dangling shards". That is the horror story of paper tape. Once you made a good part. Cut and passed QC inspection you ran the paper tape back through and punched good quality mylar tape that was dependable. Now, slowly we might see CNC fade out. I see 3D printer and pick and place machines that have just a 2 line display and loads program via USB or SDHC card and just runs, no provisions for editing at the machine itself. In the very high end manufacturing machines I could see a single control terminal running an entire flexible machining cell, or even multiple cells. Likely it would use a tablet device as a slave to allow remote access when setting up a specific machine. Automation doesn't really put too many people out of work, it just shifts job titles and responsibilities. Switching over to robots to load and unload machines caused a huge improvement in quality since the part to part time interval was consistent, as well as less dropped parts and a cleaner work environment for operators. It provided time for operators to do actual measurements vs depending on simple go/nogo gages. Greg, Out yonder in Colorado -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC officially rocks
Way back in the early days of EMC2 the first OEM to pick it up was Sherline. Next came Smithy tools. Then nothing new for years until EMC2 morphed into LinuxCNC by force and matured both in features and hardware support to the point that the next OEM to pick up LinuxCNC was Tormach with there own branded version. This was the biggest jump, still within the pro-sumer market and not a major OEM machine builder. The best part of this is it exposed many high end hobbyists to LinuxCNC and many of those had other home conversion CNC equipment that was a perfect match to expand LinuxCNC use. I admit the Rongfu has also made LCNC an option on some of its lower end turn key CNC mills. I have yet to actually see one in the U.S. but the home website claims they are available. Seriously though, its going to take another major OEM to adopt LinuxCNC to give us the exposure needed to attract major user share. Also as our Power users get better, making more custom POST options which make use of LCNC for Fusion 360 would help dramatically. Seimens and several new noname Chi-com control makers are now gaining market share in both new machine builds and retrofits.You can give credit to Microsoft for demonizing Windows XP for the drop in Mach 3 users - that and the MACH team dropping of further development of that product. On the other hand FADAL is becoming a footnote in history and there are alot of those machines out there with no real factory support or upgrade options. HAAS swallowed up FADAL's market share as they dropped out of the picture and did it with a more user friendly control - albeit one which I consider lousy in its actual G-Code execution when compared to FANUC or MAZAK. I am also not a fan of the HAAS machines themselves, they had the highest percentage of down time and highest cost of repairs of any brand I have ever used. That applies to both the milling and turning centers. In one respect LinuxCNC's biggest strength is also it biggest weakness. The fact that LCNC is a virtual one size fits all means that most applications are unique. Tormach has only a few configs to deal with, but is putting out the greatest number of LCNC equipped machines. LCNC requires its machine integrators to do there home work and solve problems. Lazy people hate homework. Others just are afraid to try Linux - yet God knows there are enough MAC users out there and most have no clue whats really happening under the hood of their hardware, all they know is it mostly works. People fail to believe that Linux is the same thing, it mostly just works. Greg, Out yonder in Colorado. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Wiring my Hurco KM3 - hope to avoid magic smoke.
Hello LCNC users hive mind; I am finally getting to the actual wiring stage of my LCNC retrofit of my 1987 HURCO KM3. The point of this message is to say what I have planned and if anyone notices that I’m heading for a cliff, a wall, a Magic smoke event you can yell at me now, or if anyone has been down this road, tips would be appreciated. The Hurco KM3 is a Bridgeport Vari-drive style clone knee mill with the Iron being made by Kondia in Spain (Manual machines were also sold in the USA under the Clausing name). The servos are big ElectroCraft 4 brush DC units set for 1:1 direct drive with encoders and tach feedback. These are driven by a CMC / Randtronics Servomate unit. Each axis amp is fed 60VAC and has a healthy bridge rectifier. These I believe are set for velocity mode using +/- 10V signals. I believe a single servo power signal enables the entire 3 axis amp panel. With the MAX II control rapids were 250IPM, the MAX32 would jog at 400IPM and do 300IPM in AUTO. I have the Mesa 5i25 / 7i77 combo and after just re-reading the manual I’m a bit confused as the word “field” is used for many different things and I’m feeling like I am stuck out somewhere in left field. It appears field can mean GPIO, or it can be a 8-32VDC power source, or ??? I am un-clear. The existing limit switch system uses Prox sensors for X & Y and a roller microswitch for the Quill on Z. The knee is manual only. These prox switches have a working voltage of 5VDC, the documentation fails to say what the steady state is when not tripped. Much of the hardware actually uses 120VAC as control voltage, however some devices use 24VDC. Since I have removed the blazing fast 8086/8087 card racks and the massive supporting power supply I have ordered both 5VDC and 24VDC power supply units. These new power supplies will provide the 5VDC for the 7i77 logic and encoders, and the 24V will provide “Field” power and provide power for relay sources. Here is where things get messy – the servo amps take input from the limit switches so that when you hit a limit, motion towards the limit is disabled but motion away from the limit is allowed. Not only that, there are inputs from the control to kill motion if you approach a soft limit. I may have to bypass these hardware functions, it is yet to be seen. The spindle speed will continue to be manually set via vari-drive crank. I intend to use a Huanyang 2.2Kw VFD to drive the spindle motor and report spindle at speed. I won’t have a spindle encoder initially, however I would love to add one eventually if possible. I don’t know if I should use the RS-485 module for control or I should just hardwire in for +/- 10V. Once upon a time, long ago and far away at the Los Angeles convention center while attending the WESTEC Machine tool show I saw a retrofit kit which replaced the vari-drive pulleys with 8mm pitch toothed belts and swapped out the OEM motor for a wide range 5hp inverter rated motor. This setup still had the Hi/low back gear but for all speeds within a range it was fully programmable. Coolant pump is 3ph also but I am going to try just using a run capacitor with 230VAC 1ph. Spindle brake and Mist coolant will also need to be wired in. I also have a control pendant with handwheel, axis switches etc. As much as I hate the idea, I will run this machine via PC keyboard and the jog pendant initially till I can plan out the wiring and layout for a proper control console. Also this machine is going to have to make some money to buy the extra bells and gizmos. I have a 8” rotary table I want to convert for an “A” 4th axis. I will need the mill functional for that project. PC main board will be a HP DC7700 CMT mATX with a Pentium D 945 (Dual core running at 3.4 GHz) 4GB ram. Not sure, but I will likely use the onboard Intel 965 chipset video. I have several Radeon 5450 cards I could use if offloading the video will help things. Any advice is appreciated. I've done small stepper systems but this is my first foray into big iron. Thanks All. Greg, out yonder in Colorado -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] OT: Help locating device.
Hi all; I have been pulling my hair out trying to find a simple 802.11# unit. What I need is a small module that takes RJ45 input and makes it a wireless connection. Much like a USB wireless dongal. Think of it as an inline wireless adaptor, a single IP pass through not a full router bridge. I want to mount a IP camera up on a power pole. This pole has my electric meter and a conduit up to a junction box with motion activated flood lights, so I have a place to install a power supply. Problem is this pole is out by its lonesome and all lines out are in underground conduits so for this island with power I need a wireless solution. It is a rough environment, temps from -30F to 110F are possible here in Colorado. Power company is fine with me adding the equipment within +/- 18" of the flood lights, however if I were to run any cables from the pole they would have to be in underground conduits and that requires permits and underground tracing to locate where all prior conduits are before digging. Everything I have been finding in my searches requires a USB interface - if nothing else to supply power. Any ideas? BTW I will be adding another dedicated enclosure for the transmitter and power supplies. All other locations have POE runs but this one spot can't get there from here. Thanks -- What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning reports.http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] O.T. Help - I need tips to keep the mice out of my machine wiring.
Today I was piddling around in the shop and I happened to open up the control console on one of my CNC mills. This is still the OEM control. Well the mice had climbed up the inside of the 3" square tubing which mounts the console and they had built quite a nest inside with lots of excess urine on the PCB's and feci everywhere. I will pull it out with tongs so that if anything snags on board jumpers those jumpers and settings won't be lost. I may have to foam the conduit tube to seal it up as I can't conceive of a simple (cheap) way to keep them out at the hinge point. I also recently acquired a CNC turning center and have not begun to think about if/how mice might attack that. My thought is that ideally I would just run the machine daily and the fresh oil covering all the interior surfaces would be a deterrent. But I don't have work lined up such that there are (paying) jobs to be run. The LCNC user list helps people get things working. A problem that creeps into such machine builds is material quality. We often have a consumer grade PC with the side open and loose wires running into our new build. This is fine to prove the monster lives. But once past that point we need to use oil proof, cat & mouse proof, or maybe I should say owner/use/fool proof materials when we finish up our builds. Safety first. I helped another user with a shoptask conversion and before it was all done I nearly crashed the machine with a runaway due to a stuck key of a $7.99 keyboard. Thankfully I had stuck to my own build rules which require a E-Stop full power cutoff to drivers and spindles. E-Stop saved me. Well now I'm looking at mice and wondering what other types of parts could be degrading since a build was first completed. -- What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning reports. https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/305295220;132659582;e ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Linuxcnc forum
I am on the digest delivery method - it does cut down on the traffic - but it is kind of a FIFO Buffer that dumps a digest volume when the message size gets big enough to warrant sending it or when the last message reaches a certain age. Once a day - not! On May 24th I received 8 digests. Sometimes all it takes is someone being in a zombie frame of mind and replying to a digest instead of the user list proper. That single message will go out with the entire prior digest. The forums at linuxcnc.org are good, but many of us don't frequent them as much. Likewise there is a (unofficial) section over at CNCZone.com a site that is perhaps its own worst enemy. Then in real time are the Linuxcnc IRC channels which can be hit or miss at any given moment. All said I think the mailing list is still the best option, but that is just my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it. Greg B. - on the plains of eastern Colorado -- What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity planning reports. https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/305295220;132659582;e ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Toolchange M6
Henry Ford saw no reason to ever make a different car than the Model T. The fact that the Model A came about was mostly done behind his back and when ready presented to him as fate accompli. Just because you got away with bad habits when using Mach 3 is no excuse not to learn proper methods. As you mentioned - this machine will have several users. Going off standard and having someone injured means you could be facing an uncomfortable sit down with OSHA and be found liable. There is no excuse for not doing things properly, and if setup for one method and some user who has been train to do things per standard tries to run it there will be issues. Use the tool table - and the only 'bogas' value used should be the dia. comp if set to zero as per the code generated by your chosen CAD/CAM package. I use a big Mori Seiki - there are outside contractors that come in and use the machine also. The contractors use CAD/CAM code so they are allowed tools 1-50 and can zero out the R comp for those offsets. Tools 51-99 are for hand written code which uses many of the built in canned cycles which ALL require actual tool radius values. BTW - if a line of code 'M6 T1' offended you - why didn't you just delete it? You are the Programmer/operator, edits are part of the job since there are few perfect post processors out there. Without proper tool table entries you can't use a G43 H# to call a functional Z offset. Now you stated the offset was set manually - not sure by what you mean but it sounds like using this method you might need to use G43.1 but I doubt that your CAD/CAM generated file has any way to include this, so again, before this code can be run it will require operator editing. This does not really apply to single tool routers - but on machines with tool changers, all tools need to be set to a known location and work shifts need to be used (G54-G59) This way when you change programs the tools in the ATC can be used for any job safely without having to be reset each time. If a tool has not been set (in tool table) then it should not be in the ATC unless you are in the process of setting that offset. People trained to use multiple brands of machine tools expect everyone to be on the same page of industry standards (or the standard your facility has chosen to adopt under ISO 900x) Its a safety issue as well as a cost saving issue. Seeing a $800 20mm solid carbide drill rapid into a KURT vise at 1200IPM because some ID10t didn't bother to set the offset when he loaded the tool gets old real fast - thankfully on recent manufacture industrial machines you can't get anywhere near the cutting area when the machine is under power. However LinuxCNC's best use is bringing old iron back into service and these old machines are less likely to be enclosed - and whatever safety checks are incorporated in the machine conversion is solely up to the machine integrator/rebuilder. What ever you chose to do - be safe. Greg -- Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial! https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/302982198;130105516;z ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Has the 'emc-users' mail list taken a dump?
I get the Digest version and the last I received was #26 on April 7th. Greg -- Find and fix application performance issues faster with Applications Manager Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial! https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/302982198;130105516;z ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Creating G-code?
That Maker-works chart is missing the biggist column, between scanner and CAD. Paper blueprints. I know that by now you would expect that companies would supply electronic design media to speed up both quote and delivery times, but it seems that anything other than paper printed blueprints is available less than 30% of the time. I also have been using Geomagic and am going to be seriously looking at Fusion360. I think Fusion360 is going to decimate the lower and mid range CAD/CAM options. For simple 2D and 2 1/2D type jobs I have my original licensed copy of BobCAD V12 for DOS which worked great before they attempted the Windows port. I can run BobCAD V12 just fine in Linux via DOSBox. Oh and RE: Collets. This is one place where you dig deep into your wallet and buy the best you can afford for your milling tools - run out is everything. get that special collet in 1/8", 3/16", 1/4" and for what ever other endmill shank sizes you use. The tool life gained for about 5 endmills will pay for that size collet. The generic sets are ok for drilling and reaming but for fine milling you need top shelf. Also for fine work - look into using SGS or other quality 3/64" solid carbide endmills (and try to buy double ended for only a few $$ more) these are much tougher than 1/32" yet allow you to do a G2/G3 move with a .025" radius. I have a planetary gear spindle speeder head I use. It has a 1:6 speed ratio so with my mill at 4000 rpm I have 24,000rpm at the tool. I bought it about 1992 and it still runs the same today and has about 10,000-12,000 hours on it. It was very expensive, custom built by a division of the Lovejoy Corp. in the UK but it has paid for itself many times over. Looks kind of like this but mine is smaller and has a Universal Engineering 200 Kwik-switch shank. http://www.nikken-world.com/Nikken-Spindle-Speeders.aspx Info on kwik switch - http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/KS_200_R8_Adapt.html - Ignore the R8... Greg -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=267308311&iu=/4140 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Rigid tapping speed advice
Single point threading - my best was a M6 x .5 20mm depth using a Micro-100 solid carbide mini threading bar in 303 Stainless. Thread milling - #6-32 with a usable thread depth of .470" in 6061 AL. Andy's boring head tapping (X axis) - I have lost many carbide threading inserts which chipped when run backwards. On inch thread engine lathes with a metric change gear you are usually required to not disengage the half nut during the threading operation so you back off the cross slide and reverse the spindle to get back to your start point. If you don't back off the part deflection puts enough pressure on the insert tooth that it tends to chip. For some insert geometries you can get 5% Cobalt HSS inserts and these are ideal for this type of usage. That said - I'd do it like Andy did since its a one time do or die type job and use a number insert points as needed. Greg -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=267308311&iu=/4140 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] There needs to be a 'Cliff notes' / The idiots guide to Smart Serial configurations.
Hello fellow users; Today I will ask for clarity in understanding Smart serial usage. >From the many docs I have read so far it appears to rule out SSerial as a >single point to point only interface and that the devices are somehow linked >via hub or a daisy chain. Which is it? I picked up a second hand 5i25/7i77 PNG kit that was unused, though today I would have opted for the 6i25. This kit will get things started, but down the line I will want to tap into the +/- 10V output on the servomate amps which reports the current loading level of each servo. Likewise the Spindle VFD also has the load output via +/- 10V. These can be wired to a 7i87, but I will also likely want a 7i73 for operator control. Will I have to get another host adaptor for the 2nd port on the 5i25 or . . . ? Oh yeah - and what are these field current inputs on a 7i77... but that's a whole nother set of questions. Greg -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=267308311&iu=/4140 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Looking Forward - Will there come a point where Path Pilot may be a GUI option?
I know as is it has been integrated into the OEM Tormach Mill and lathes it has many specific functions dedicated to that hardware. I just wondering that will a perhaps watered down generic version be available as an LCNC GUI. I have moved my second Hurco knee mill to my shop and once I have cleaned out all the crud from nearly 15 years of storage I will begin its PHOENIX mission reborn with LCNC. I have an HP DC7700 motherboard that I just replaced all the 6.3V 470uf caps and a Pentium D 945 dual core CPU - BIOS/CPU does not support hyper threading so I think I will be good to go. 4GB to be sure it has a clear head and a 5i25 / 7i77 combo to talk to the OEM goodies. Thanks all, esp all those who have taken time to sweat the details in the source code. Greg -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] mains voltage
I was always told "Never rectify straight from AC mains without an isolation transformer." Bad Karma - Bad Ju ju - will come back to bite you. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Possible Error in Linuxcnc.org html docs for 2.7
Looking at the description of "M19" it states that it requires a differential encoder with index to function. I believe it should be (any) quadrature encoder with index. (differential being great for noise immunity but not an actual requirement.) Not trying to be picky, but the docs are how people learn, best to provide the most accurate info possible. And to those who maintain said Docs, Thanks for doing an endless job. Greg -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Would this new item be of any use?
Got an advert for this since I am an Allied customer and was wondering if this would be useful as a spindle sensor. http://www.alliedelec.com/lp/151110/honeywell/?utm_source=prod&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=151110_product -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Leadshine HBS507 3-phase HYbird Servo Drive
Hello all; (Trick or Treat - I'm hoping for both) I have been looking at the Leadshine HBS507 drive and the feedback cable from the Hybird motor. They use a Dsub-15 3 row (like a VGA) and listed on pins 1-2 is EA+ and EB+, pins 7-8 are EZ+ and EZ-, pins 11-12 are EA- and EB- so it appears to be a standard differential quad encoder... My question is - is there really an Index signal on pins 7-8 even if the current drive electronics has no use for an index signal. The spec sheet refers to pins 7-8 as reserved. Also it lists the step angle at 1.2 degrees. I have not been able to determine if the drive setup and tuning software enables selectable microstepping. I was wondering if a MESA "ENCY" could be used to hijack the motor feedback to the drive and allow LCNC to home to index and maybe run the drive as velocity mode? Lost cause - or the beginings of a plan? -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
Best buy I ever made was BOBCAD in about 1990. Cost me $495. Bought it from a dealer at the WESTEC tool show in Los Angeles. Later I bought an update to BOBCAD Gold Version 12 (for DOS) This was another $49 + $20 for FEDEX. At some point BOBCAD called me up and sold me Version 14, but the shipped Dongal would not work so that install was aborted, eventually I did get a working dongal. Another shop wanted to try BOBCAD so I installed Ver 14 on a spare PC and let them play with it for 3 months. When they return the PC and dongal it went into storage and was eventually lost. (no tears here, no big loss) All this time I had been cranking out good G-code and basic prints from version 12. Version 12 did not use any activation codes or hardware dongals - it just did what it was intended to do - allow the user to put out good G-code. It is still my first choice goto for most 2.5D work. Often I can be loading the code into the CNC and setting offsets before I could have finished a 3D model in my Geomagic, and I too have the Mechsoft Visualcam plug-in - with has good 3D support while the Idiots who market it want you to buy the super delux version to get it to be able to use a simple corner rounding endmill which is a 2.5D only type tool. BTW, I need to program a CREM I switch to my BOBCAD V12 for DOS and its done in no time. For Linux, or Windows - I load a little app called DOS Box - it is a DOS emulator for people who want to play legacy DOS games. BOBCAD works perfect except for the DNC serial app. which I have not tested. BOBCAD for windows has been a perpetual disaster since the initial Version 15 was launched. Yup I bought it, so I can say total garbage. And the BC sales dept - They are the worst. BOBCAD v12 for DOS - been cranking out the code for me for 25 years now and I don't see that changing any time soon, I really got my money's worth. As to GEOMAGIC - Keep in mind the parent company 3D Systems bought out Gibbs - as in Virtual Gibbs CAD/CAM which used to be an OEM installed option on FADAL CNC mills. In looking at Gibbs now it looks antiquated still being more wireframe based (like my really old BOBCAD). Honestly I think they should support both the Visualmill plugin and the external (for now) Gibbs CAM because they use very different methods. A MasterCAM user is NOT going to be happy with Gibbs as is, but would not be too lost to work with the VisualCAM plugin. 3D Systems is going to loose 2 sales (Geomagic + Gibbs) instead of just one (Geomagic + Visualmill). -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe chuck keys
Andy; This should be obvious to you. For most of the square sockets take out the parts and set them up with a stubby carbide boring bar and load your square boring program and bore them all to a common size. One too big - braze with Si-bronze to build up prior to boring - no shims to come flying out at high speed. The square size on my D1-5 spindle is (IIRC) 10mm and I fear I will break it off sometimes when removing a chuck after extended heavy use. I plan to make a 1/2" socket drive to 10mm square from some 7/8 W1 drill rod so I can use my long breaker bar. (for removing only) As I get older I value having enhanced leverage in a controlled manor such that when a stubborn item does break loose I won't over travel or let a tool go flying. Murphy's law for Auto mechanics - A dropped socket will roll under a vehicle to its exact center unless it fell within the engine compartment, then it will bounce into some nook which can not be observed from any angle. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] How to lie properly in CNC programs.
This is directed at Gene and his grips with the back plot showing spindle center vs. cut edge. I been pounding the keys for many a year since I was first trained on the New Bandit level 1 control with a round RS-232 Amphenol mil spec output to a good old teletype machine so proven programs could be punched out on paper tape. In those years I have often found the need to creatively lie to the control to convince it to do what I needed done. Your backplot issue is a perfect example. Make a duplicate of your final program and in that duplicate up the feed rates to just below rapids. Change the Z values such that the tool will cut from say .15 to .115 above the actual material. Change your tool radius comp value to .0002" Now you could just run the backplot on this duplicate - or add it as the first part of the final program with an M0 program stop before the real program starts. Maybe use block deletes on all the duplicate lines so the duplicate won't execute with block skip/delete on. There may be many different ways to skin a cat - but first I'm told I have to kill the thing 9 times. Another thing - once you get cutting with that new mill you will find that many of the plagues you suffered with on that X1 are no longer an issue. Lexan and Aluminum cut like butter - but you have to CUT them, creeping along shallow and slow only dulls the tool and tries to push the material, not cut it. For Al a trace of plain un-died Kerosene works like magic as a cutting fluid for Aluminum. For Lexan / Polycarbonate some plain 70% isopropyl Alcohol can be used when needed, but I usually cut that dry. As for your encoder disc - I would cut it in 4 passes - BUT I would add a spot drilling and drilling cycle to pre-drill thru where the tool does its plunge move, as that is an easy way to take away one of the most likely breaking points. (Actually I would cut it in 3 passes, but I would use a power mister or full flood coolant.) -- Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Suitable transformers = hens teeth (Gene Heskett)
- Original Message - From: Steve Stallings To: 'Greg Bentzinger' ; 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 6:10 PM Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Suitable transformers = hens teeth (Gene Heskett) > -Original Message- > From: Greg Bentzinger [mailto:skullwo...@yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 7:31 PM > > -- ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ No idea where you came up with this - never > said anything about water cooling or trying to use a 24K > router type spindle. > > I actually said a LOWER rpm rated motor (@60Hz)- such as a > 1725 or below. > > I dropped "56C 1.5hp 3ph" into ebay search and the first > thing that popped up was ebay item#4601799582 > > Buy it now price of $139 - I'm sure a better deal can be > found, but this was the first item that popped up > > New 56C/TEFC 1725rpm 1.5hp 5/8" output shaft inverter rated, > 10:1 Variable torque, 2:1 Constant torque > Careful. I have looked for motors to fit a G0704 before and found very few that would fit, certainly not a 56C frame. There some square BLDC motors that will fit well. Steve Stallings Well understood Steve. I look at it this way - once you jump in with both feet deciding to take an off the shelf manual machine and do a CNC conversion using parts from more than 1 vendor you have left the reservation and are on your own. The expectation should be that nothing will "just fit". True most things will work as expect out of the box, but alot of that comes from people doing there homework and knowing what they really need. Its all part of building a CNC. Many of the benchtop mills when a non-OEM type spindle motor is replaced require some sort of adapter plate with brackets or standoffs and often replace the existing belt drive with a different setup. A 3ph motor will be bigger and heavy compared to a DC unit, at least the added mass will help damp cutting vibration in the head. I bought one of the first IH large ring mills after Aaron sold IH to Gene Spada. A common "upgrade" people were doing was buying the 3450rpm motors to replace the slow and noisy OEM Chi-com motor and bringing the geared head mill up to 3600rpm capability. This upgrade required an adapter plate and that the motor output shaft be turned down and a new key slot milled. I bought a new Baldor 3450 motor, then later a more heavy duty motor rated at 2400rpm and since I planned to use a VFD anyway vrs my limited 3ph coming off my 10hp rotary phase converter. With the VFD I could push the rpm to 5K, though extended running at that speed would cause excessive heat and foam in the gearbox. IH ran the in house mill @ 6000rpm, I didn't want to be replacing bearings all the time, so 5K is my limit. Automation Technologies tried the BLDC spindle motor deal with the KL-2200 and KL-1160 which are square BLDC 400-6000rpm motors - its just that actual end user reports have been far from impressive. The price is also ultra premo @ $699 and I can get a better industrail motor and VFD that I can work on without having to guess at vague chi documentation and ZERO factory support. If it would actually work it would be worth it to some owners. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Suitable transformers = hens teeth (Gene Heskett)
Replies inline Quoting - Message: 7Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 14:42:37 -0400 From: Gene Heskett Subject: Re: [Emc-users] was Suitable transformers = hens teeth To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: <201506131442.37277.ghesk...@wdtv.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Saturday 13 June 2015 12:05:11 Greg Bentzinger wrote: > Gene; > > We really need to break your DC motor fixation. If you think PCW's > 5i25 is neat just wait until you start using a VFD controlled spindle. > > Odds are that a better replacement motor and VFD will cost near the > same of what your planning to build to support that marginal OEM DC > motor. That marginal motor is easily replaceable with something with serious grunt that is right at home at 5 grand at the armature, perhaps 1100 at the spindle. The power supply in each case is the majority of the cost, but with Jon's PWM servo driver, slightly modified, I've found I CAN manhandle a treadmill motor fast enough to do rigid tapping, with grunt enough to drive the tap. None of those vfd things, designed to turn at 24k rpms for engraving, can even begin to drive a 4-40 tap, let alone a 1/2-13. And for those situations where I don't have the grunt to do it in one pass, I have already written pack tapping stuff to wrap up the G33.1 with. > > I have several great treadmill motors and some motor controllers for > them, motor controllers intended for a treadmill motor are incapable of doing the control needed. Jon's pwm servo amp, with increased wire gauge in the toroids, can turn that treadmill motor around from 3 g's at the artmature, 300 at the spindle, in a time frame quiter comparable to the vfd if allowances for the flying weight to be reversed are taken into consideration. On my lathe, that flying weight is well above 10lbs as its swinging a 5" 4 jaw chuck. But that is not using the treadmill controller, which cannot actively stop the motor. Jons PWM Servo amp can. > but trying to keep fine tune of RPM vrs load is a hemroid and > using those controls for reversing just isn't practical. Then there > was the heating issue of running the motor at lower RPMs. I no longer try to subdue those BBLB controllers, they decorate a shelf now. Jons PWM Servo amp is a breath of fresh air in comparison. > I would get a 1.5 or 2hp motor with a lower 60Hz rpm spec then over > speed it as needed so you have plenty of low rpm power. And just how do I spin a 2.2kw water cooled, 24k revs motor at 250 rpm's and have enough torque to throw a .015"x.015"x3/8" chip 2 feet away? -- ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ No idea where you came up with this - never said anything about water cooling or trying to use a 24K router type spindle. I actually said a LOWER rpm rated motor (@60Hz)- such as a 1725 or below. I dropped "56C 1.5hp 3ph" into ebay search and the first thing that popped up was ebay item#4601799582 Buy it now price of $139 - I'm sure a better deal can be found, but this was the first item that popped up New 56C/TEFC 1725rpm 1.5hp 5/8" output shaft inverter rated, 10:1 Variable torque, 2:1 Constant torque Direct drive 1:1 this motor would provide: 172.5 rpm @ 6Hz 1725 rpm @ 60Hz - Nominal motor spec - Optimal 3450 rpm @ 120Hz 5170 rpm @ 180Hz 5750 rpm @ 200Hz I would not trust the Grizzly spindle bearings @ 6000 rpm unless I had removed, checked fit, regreased and set the bearing preload. Now if you got ambitious and wanted to do a step-pulley drive: Underdrive the spindle 1:0.5 86.25 rpm @ 6Hz 862.5 rpm @ 60Hz - Nominal 1725 rpm @ 120Hz 2587 rpm @ 180Hz 2875 rpm @ 200Hz Overdrive the spindle 2:1 345 rpm @ 6Hz 3450 rpm @ 60Hz - Nominal 6900 rpm @ 120Hz > On a side note you would still have the Pico drive available for your > old mill so little things like engraving could still be done on it. > Its actually on my lathe. Thats a PMDX-106 on the mill, driving a 1.8 amp rated, 2500 revs at the spindle on the mill. The OEM pass hexfet died years ago, and was replaced by one from a dead computer psu. Nearly zero heating now, it could do a 400 watt motor just fine if I ever get around to using the motor I took out of the lathe. > That 240V is just waiting to be used... I found a toroid to fix that last night. Admittedly, the PMDC motor has brushes to wear out, where the vfd doesn't. But where do I find the power to spin a 1/4" upcut solid carbide tool with that vfd driven pipsqueak? Can that vfd and a water cooled motor do 47hz output and turn a 1/4-32 tap 180 revs in steel? I'm sure you would have no problems tapping @ about 300 rpm. Why piddle around with a 1/4" endmill when a 3/8" is a better buy - save the 1/4" for finishing the corners. I had no idea what could really be done with the tooling I all ready had until I went to the WESTEC tool show and watche
Re: [Emc-users] Suitable transformers = hens teeth
Gene; We really need to break your DC motor fixation. If you think PCW's 5i25 is neat just wait until you start using a VFD controlled spindle. Odds are that a better replacement motor and VFD will cost near the same of what your planning to build to support that marginal OEM DC motor. I have several great treadmill motors and some motor controllers for them, but trying to keep fine tune of RPM vrs load is a hemroid and using those controls for reversing just isn't practical. Then there was the heating issue of running the motor at lower RPMs. I would get a 1.5 or 2hp motor with a lower 60Hz rpm spec then over speed it as needed so you have plenty of low rpm power. On a side note you would still have the Pico drive available for your old mill so little things like engraving could still be done on it. That 240V is just waiting to be used... -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Dither with Anilam linear encoders
My HURCO mill has worn down to the point that I have about .0027" Accuracy. However - ignoring time/thermal changes, my repeatability is better than .0002" So - after a quick but complete first article inspection I add a few creative white lies into the program so that the key feature which are tight tolerance are all in proper position and size. Being able to trust the repeatability is how the money is made. Likewise if there is not room in a bid for some setup material or the overall tolerances are just too tight for your machine you need to know when to say No bid and let someone else take a gamble on the job. If you have to add encoders, there are ways... If your servos drive the ballscrews with belt drive you could bolt an additional pulley to the existing one to drive the encoder, or you could bolt on an extension that goes directly into an encoder. Adding an 1/8" Aluminum plate to mount an encoder is not too hard. for direct drive ballscrews I have seen pulleys mounted on the motor side of the flex coupling. A 3/16" wide MXL belt is plenty to drive an encoder. Good luck with it. Greg -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Fanuc Spindle Motor Encoder PPR (Bruce Layne)
When thread timing is critical, as others have said, its time to look at thread milling. I have a repeat job for a company doing warranty retrofits, having to replace an out of production assy with a replacement made by a different vendor. The replacements are mounted on the rear side of the front control panel .47" thick Al. I have to provide #6-32 threads with a usable depth of .400" without any visible change on the front. Once you get your head straight on standard thread milling you can go for the bonus Migraine round and try NPT thread milling! (which I also do a fair amount of) Greg -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] How to build a little black box - Machine emulator.
I have 2 Hurco mills - 1 I plan to retrofit to LinuxCNC the other I hope to get running on the OEM control. What I would like to do is take the control I tear out for the retrofit and fix its issues and get it running on the bench with an emulator. Basically I would need a box to accept 3 axis +/- 10V inputs for velocity and output quadrature to make the control think its actually spinning the servos. Might need an Arduino sub circuit just to emulate a homing switch for each axis, or just a momentary button switchs. (can't remember if it does a double seek.) The complete wiring will get complex with all the other relays and safety interlocks that the control will require me to lie to it... I know once upon a time there was a board to accept +/-10V that output step/dir signals but I think that is also long gone. Any ideas? Greg -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] 7x lathes
I bought a HF 7x about 2004 to try and use onsite to make and modify a huge amount of circuit board standoffs. Was doing a major retro fit / upgrade on rack mount chassis equipment. Bottom line fighting the machine ate up all the time savings of not just driving to the real shop to do it on proper equipment. Gene - you are still looking at this like a 7x lathe owner - not a CNC lathe owner. I would strip everything off the left side of the headstock, that potmetal cover plate, all gears and other gizmos. Make one large poly-V micro-v or whatever that is mounted directly on the rear of the spindle tube and another smaller by what ever underdrive ratio you deem fit to go on the drive motor. If you think you really need it put 2 pulley sizes on each end. I picked up a nice German made 0.55kW 3ph motor for mine on ebay for $30 shipped. The VFD may set me back $160 as I think I will get a 115V 1phase input unit so I can take this innertube boat anchor anywhere. I will use a 2.5:1 under drive and run the motor up to near 6000rpm. So with this config I will have full bi-directional speed control and with added breaking resistor the CSS and reversing will be almost instant. Seriously - go back to the poly-V - they are more than adequate. A shop I do work for designs blower retrofit kits and there blower flow test bench has a 15hp motor driving the Eaton blowers with a 3 rib belt and no slippage. My Uncles Okuma MC4VAE Vertical machining center has a 5 rib on its 7.5-10hp 12,000 rpm spindle, even tapping 5/8-18 it does not slip. All the extra shafts, gears and other gizmos sharing the spindle power are parasitic drag and extra weight adding to spindle inertia which fights CNC control. I'm too lazy to fight, I strip the resistance and only keep what is functionally needed. This lathe will never be going back to a manual config, so I feel no hesitation burning those bridges. BTW - Once you decide on a belt spec I found many sellers eager to provide 1 pc qtys on Amazon at great prices. -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mill coordinates setup
That would match most common FAUNC controlled machine configs. So your G54-G59 part offsets would be like: X-##. Y-##. Z ##. where Z is the height of the table surface to the part top. (positive) -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?
Pardon my ignorance... But is there a significant difference between use of shielded cable between VFD and motor vrs lines in hard or flex metal conduit which makes a complete ground at each end? Thanks Greg -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] motor connections
I use a DB9 with shielded cable on pin 5 and the 4 drive lines each using an
upper and lower pin in parallel as redundant connections and less current
density. Cheap enough, readily available on short notice. Might try a DB15 with
dual wires for motor + encoder signals. (That would be a {2 row} game port not
a {3 row} VGA type connectors.)
I used XLR until a bad connection blew a driver chip.
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[Emc-users] SWAG on the release date of 2.7
About to start a new retrofit conversion in the next few weeks and would rather put off the software side until v2.7 is released than have to convert from 2.6. If it is beyond the near horizon am I good to go with v2.7 pre? A decade ago I was a heavy Gentoo user (lets build every little part custom to run the best on our existing hardware setup) But for the last five years I have been getting paid to help admin a windows cluster and that means alot of mind numbing user hand holding and its wore me down over time. Sometimes I stare blankly at a terminal window trying to remember the proper command syntax needed. I blame M$, and deny that age or other factors could be causing me to turn into a Zombie. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hurco KM3 to retrofit - now what do I need?
Quoting: Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 11:58:49 -0500 From: Dave Cole Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Hurco KM3 to retrofit - now what do I need? To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: <54aeb749.2020...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Backing up a bit. Do you know if the servo motors and drives are good? That is always my number one concern.If you have drive/servo motor issues that can be big $$ compared to everything else. If you have the prints, wire up the machine and enable the servos (one at a time) and carefully apply some voltage to the +/-10volt input and see if the motors spin. A 1 1/2 volt battery can be a nice isolated voltage source for jogging drives for testing purposes. Having a fast way to disconnect the power from the drive is a good idea. Rig up an estop that controls a contactor so you can kill power NOW! if required. Best to have someone with their hand over the estop button just in case.. You probably have the parts required to do this in the existing control box. Try to avoid running them into the hard stops..Putting some crushable wood in the right place can cushion the axes if something starts to run away before you hit the hard stops. I've looked at some Hurco mills and got close to getting one. The iron is pretty impressive. What controls controls were original to the machine? Hurco had their own controls for a while. I've met some of the guys who do Hurco controls repair just outside of Detroit. On some Hurco mills, I thought that the controls and the drive boards were all in the same rack?? That might complicate a conversion. The 7i43/7i33TA combo works fine for servo controls. If you have the parts already I'd start with that. >>The 7i42TA looks the kit for I/O for limits and relays<< That's a good card also and easy to wire and the price is right if you already have a 7i43 and are on a budget. It will get you going. If you want to add a A axis and Knee drive later, you can swap some Mesa parts then after you know the rest of the machine is good. FWIW, I think the Automation Direct GS2 VFD is pretty commonly used on spindles for Linuxcnc machines. You might want to stick with a common drive if you want support from the list for the drive and LinuxCNC integration. Besides that, they are easy to setup. I've used Teco servo drives but never Teco VFDs, yet. Dave End Quote: Dave: A few months back I powered up the machine, CRT's are dead, the graphics CRT had died just before I was laid off. I switched into manual mode and powered up the servos and was able to jog the machine and home it. I would love to have been able to see the display since when the memory board died it lost all its personality specs - it did not know its own travel limits. I could also turn on the spindle in manual mode. This unit has the Servomate amps and Electrocraft 4 Brush DC servo motors (with tachs) running 1:1 on all axis. The iron is made by Kondia. Many of the BMC series were made by Leadwell, which also supplied some models for Tree Machine. It is great to know I am buying a machine that has working parts, best of all it improves my U200 tooling on hand to almost 70 shanks. My old machine (KM3P) has the MAX32 system and Hurco Max400 servo amps which appear to use a +/- 15V control scale from the wiring diagrams I have. Servo motors appear the same ElectroCraft units. The KM3P model, the 'P' denotes programmable spindle speed, and sets the vari-drive with a small 3Ph motor and a worm drive gear and a "Voltac" controller card. A hall sensor or Prox switch is used to count the back gear drive teeth and the feedback gets the speed within +/- 7 rpm. This allows the machine to do near rigid tapping by counting the increasing time between counts as the spindle slows to a stop then reverses direction and senses the count time drop. Retrofitting the KM3P will be a much bigger project, so if possible I hope to get the OEM control functional. If not I will be swapping the Hurco amps and having to rig something to deal with the spindle vari-drive. Greg -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming! The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Hurco KM3 to retrofit - now what do I need?
Well - I've gone and done it, I bought another Hurco CNC mill. My existing machine was a 1990 KM3P with the MAX32 upgrade and the whole 9 yards of software upgrade options... Which is fantastic - if it would only boot. This machine is kinda unique with many special gotcha's if you were trying to do a conversion / retrofit. My new aquisition is a 1987 KM3 which is the little brother of the KM3P. Being older in this case is a very good thing as it uses standard 10V analog drives with encoder + tach feedback. Both displays (control console uses 2 CRTs) are toast and the console layout was barely adequate with the Ultimax Conversational control program. If you switched into NC mode then the console was a hemroid for program edits etc. Bottom line is the old console will be reconditioned and fitted with new displays and sold to someone still holding on the the old Ultimax II control platform. The console died back in bout 2002 and I have been trying to get the owner to sell it since then... my persistance has finally paid off. This blue iron has special meaning for me as I was hired on to run it when it was first bought new back in 87 (delivered 12/87). The shop was a custom tool & die shop which had expanded into doing production CNC turning, but this was the first CNC mill and the existing staff was quite lost trying to understand it all. I was somewhat lost myself trying to wrap my head around Ultimax II, as I was trained in 'normal' RS-274D type G & M code word address programming. I was the primary operator / programmer of this machine until 2001 when I was laid off. By this time the company had added other vertical machining centers and the Old Hurco had been retask as a tooling / short run and prototype platform since it requires manual tool and speed changes. After I left it pretty much just sat unused until it finally died. So I know its entire service life and repair history. For those who have no idea what a KM3 is... Think Bridgeport type Knee/turret mill with Vari-drive back gear head 60-499 in low and 500-4000 in high with a hand cranked adjustment to the variable pulley system. The spindle motor is a 3phase 1800 rpm (at 60Hz) 2.2Kw (3hp). As shipped it has FWD and RVD contactors and an air activated spindle break to lock the spindle. Spindle is a Universal Engineering Kwik Switch 200 and is often mistakenly called a 30 taper. Travels are: X 24" Y 13" Z 5" Yes this uses a Quill for its programed Z motion, but this allowed 250 IPM rapids from a control based on a pair of Intel chips, the 8086 teamed with an 8087 running at a blistering pace of 4.077 MHz. There is un-used headroom as I could jog my KM3P at nearly 400IPM. OK - Planning. The console is a goner... but I will want to make a better suitable replacement - I'm old school CNC as in I used to punch paper tapes... so forgive me if I love older classic styles control panels. I would love something with simple elegance based on say the FADAL CNC88. I want true override switches and buttons and indicators... not something you manipulate via a PC keyboard. A keyboard exists for setup, MDI commands and program edits - anything else and your just playing around. Phase I - Get the mill up and running in a basic configuration: a) Re-use existing DC Brushed servos and analog amps and existing encoders for motion. b) Use a TECO FM50 VFD to utilize existing 220V single phase power to drive spindle motor FWD & RVD at a set 60Hz speed and use mechanical vari-drive to adjust actual RPM. No encoder feedback at this time. c) Re-use existing limit switch wiring for limits and homing. d) Add 1/4HP VFD to drive coolant flood pump. e) Add relays for Air mist coolant solenoid, and spindle break air solenoid. f) Re-build E-STOP chain, and make a spartan minimalistic operating console. This gets the machine up and back into use. Phase II - As good as it can get. 1} Build final operating console. 2} Add 'A' 4th axis ( most likely stepper based with encoder feedback and Index homing ). 3} Encoder feedback with index on spindle, PID tuned for rigid tapping. 4} Auto sense High / Low gear via feedback from encoder. 5} Allow VFD to make minor speed PID speed corrections ( +/- 10%) 6} Mount Stepper motor to Vari-drive crank to allow machine to set inital spindle RPM (no load). 7} Add web cam for remote monitoring of excessively long programs. 8} Add monster sized stepper to knee to allow 'W' Axis movement to allow extra long or extra short tools in a program. Feedback via glass scale. = = = Now here is what I have. I have a 400K version 7i43, but I have been also looking at the 5i24 as hosts. A 7i33TA would get the ball rolling but I wonder if I should be looking at a 6 axis card considering the spindle and 4th axis, and who knows I might add a bolt on mini 4th/5th axis at some future point. The 7i42TA looks the kit for I/O for limits and relays, but I will also need something fast for pass
Re: [Emc-users] Coolant filtering
Two items that have worked great. 1) Paint straining bag - sold to be put in a 5 gal (18-20L) bucket then the paint is poured in to about 80% capacity then the bag is lifted out taking any paint "skin" or clumps with it. We made a large holder - much like a oversized coffee filter basket to allow max usable surface area. We use this when draining the coolant tanks for scheduled maintenance. 2) Tee-shirt silk screen material - comes on a large roll - cut huge squares of this and lay it over the coarse top screen in the coolant tanks - catches all but the most fine silt. However on some jobs they may require cleaning once per shift. We added an overflow drain that allows coolant that has built up over 2"above the filter to return directly to the main tank. Normally any build up drains completely while parts art being changed between cycles. This is in a Huge Mori Seiki SV-50B with dual high capacity pumps. YMMV -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Rifling machine
First off I don't want to start a shouting war of "Tastes Great" vrs "Less Filling". As a (former) firearms manufacturer I researched barrel manufacturing methods in depth after being ask to reproduce a replacement barrel for a long since out of production item. The Hook and pull (sine method) was developed back in the black powder days when steel was soft and bores were large. Keep in mind that one reason a single groove is cut has to do with chips in the bore. The cutter often takes less than .0002" per pass. Early machines could easily be hand powered, albeit a long monotonous process. Because of the time factor Enfield actual made some barrels with only 2 grooves. As bores got smaller 6.5mm became about the smallest bore that could be produced reliably with current materials. During WWI material science improved. The cutter is often held straight in larger bores and all twist timing is done externally. Button rifling on the other hand relies on the angle of the flutes of the button to control twist rate. Button rifling is like a swaging operation because no cutting takes place. Broach rifling is like button rifling in that the twist is controlled by how the broach was ground, but the grooves are cut, not pressure formed. If this were attempted with LCNC I think it is an application which begs for absolute encoder support. Any loss of position while in process would likely destroy both work piece and the cutter and cutter carrier unless machine was dis-assembled to allow removal of work and cutter assy together so tool could be backed out by hand. The beauty of the original design is that short of taking a chuck key or wrench to the machine it is nearly impossible to get out of sync. Greg Bentzinger -- Slashdot TV. Video for Nerds. Stuff that matters. http://tv.slashdot.org/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] losing hair rapidly here, lcnc is not working as advertised in man pages.
Quoting: Message: 6 Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 16:50:56 +0100 From: Andy Pugh Subject: Re: [Emc-users] losing hair rapidly here, lcnc is not working as advertised in man pages To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 16 Aug 2014, at 15:55, Gene Heskett wrote: > > I hadn't thought of that but did find the problem. Among the various hal > modules, there is apparently no good practice document encouraging a > uniform way to name pins, There is. It is widely ignored (and how would you normalise the names without breaking every config?) http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/canonical-devices.html End Quote: Andy - I think the best way to get people to swallow that bitter pill would be to add naming enforcement to the 2.7 release. Everybody is dying to get there hands on it and ring the new bells and whistles, perhaps make that part of the price of admission. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] second part
Harbor freight electronics - Not just NO but an emphatic #377 NO! Buy welding gloves and hoods - OK BTW I am a consistent customer of HF but there are some things they sell which should be avoided like plague because they will be endless grief. -- Infragistics Professional Build stunning WinForms apps today! Reboot your WinForms applications with our WinForms controls. Build a bridge from your legacy apps to the future. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=153845071&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] (off topic) Technology names
Perhaps the best example of this was when the early drivers for scanning devices was being developed. The development group even requested naming permissions from the Samuel Clemens estate trust, which were in fact granted. The end result was; Toolkit Without An Interesting Name aka the TWAIN driver. -- HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] (no subject)
Hello Hive mind of LCNC; My question tonite is how much hard drive space is needed with a 10.04 install then getting all the other source files, compilers etc. so that I could do a make and install master as RIP. System has a 40 GB hdd, Installed 10.04 from CD then LCNC via script. No extras that I know of. (did this install last summer) and the box has just been sitting here collecting dust. Between battling doctors (spent the holidays and watched the ball drop from hospital bed), battle of the budget (did I mention Doctors?), battle with my machine iron etc. I have been feeling a bit beat up. I figure now was a good time to practice fighting code gremlins and getting my build/make/config skills into shape since I have nothing to loose but my pride and a few pennies worth of AC power. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Canned cycle relative motion weirdness
Yeah - I did some digging and that whole "L" word in a fixed cycle dates back to the original NIST RS-274D-NGC. IMHO - Its a dinosaur that should have died out. I consider it an accident waiting to be activated by the user. One of the most powerful reasons to switch to LCNC is the faster processing power and virtually unlimited program length. We have O-loops and plenty of other tools to make good G-code without using commands that are not so apparent in the actual actions they will execute. I assume since it was all ready supported in the early source code it has been kept as legacy support. I dare say most modern machine controls do not support this without additional verbose codes. We are not running from punched tape anymore, there is no longer a need to optimize each line of code. (My tapes are in Aluminum or steel 35mm film cans stored away as novelty items I can drag out to brag about the bad old days...) As is, I try not to use fixed cycles in incremental (G91) mode if possible. There can be enough confusion with the G98|G99 "R" and initial points in Inc mode without other issues. Negative "R" values are something to use with caution. Greg -- Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. Read the Whitepaper. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Reading high count encoders at high speed.
Ok - another crazy idea from the popcorn gallery. To use an analogy, Gecko Stepper drives work some math-o-magic in the internal FPGA to transition from 1/10 step mode to full step mode without loosing position. An idea I had was to do something like that when trying to read high count encoders at higher speeds. Once the velocity has passed a given threshold it is known which direction an axis is moving so at that point is Quad still really needed? Could you just continue to count the leading edge for A and use that for velocity tracking? I know adding mode switching check code bloats up the basic system, and maybe for parallel ports the timing may be such that you can't just pick up the leading edge. I just thought this might be a viable option for low CPU power machines such as a Raspberry Pi or BB or even an old paraports only PC. Greg -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] LCNC performance recorder?
First off while I will call this a feature request, it is also something I would put at the bottom of the list as there are so many other areas that better deserve attention. I do put this out there because it might be really simple to do. I don't understand many parts of LinuxCNC “under the hood” so I'm not sure what I am really asking for. What I was envisioning was some sort of LCNC app or perhaps maybe mode would be a better term. Goal – to be able to hook into an existing working CNC machine and monitor encoder counts, spindle functions etc. so as to be able to record and analyze the machine performance and characteristics so that a LCNC integrator has a known good working baseline so that he can duplicate the original OEM manufactures performance. By providing a series of simple test programs that would be run by the CNC and the same program provided to LCNC so it can follow along and decipher the moves and actions. Such as: G0 X0 Y0 X15 Y5 X0 Y0 This would track accell and type ( trapezoid or S-curve ), peak velocity, and rapid type ( linear or max velocity ) and allow capture and calculation of encoder resolution or steps per unit. Another area is spindle drive commands for G84 (tapping cycle) does the machine feed the tool down to Z then... a) via contactor open the FWD contact then close the RVD contact. b) via contactor open the FWD contact then apply mechanical brake, dwell, release brake and close the RVD contact. c) Via VFD switch from forward to reverse instantly. d) Via VFD stop FWD, apply breaking resistor before engaging RVD. e) Other For lathes it can also measure spindle acceleration for CSS. I know that hooking up to the machine would likely require the same or nearly so the electronics needed to retrofit to LCNC, and in many cases maybe quite a bit more. -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] The d525 performance tweak (Sven Wesley)
USB is like a Swiss Army Knife for PC manufactures that allows them to use some dirt cheap electronics for some common tasks. While it does all sorts of functions OK, it really can't do anything great other than save the OEM mfg money. Try this on any system that has PS/2 ports. Attach a Kyb and mouse via PS/2 and do a cold boot and time the duration until you reach a desktop or logon. Repeat the test using both Kyb and mouse USB. Do all attachment while power is completely off. The results may surprise you as to how much difference it can make. Consider USB to be almost like the floppy controller of old - it doesn't totally monopolize the CPU but it sure wants to grab a (time) slice any chance it gets. -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Advice on Spindle drive.
Hello fellow LCNC users; I am seeking advice of the collective hive mind on the best course of action for a machine build I have been slowly working on. Note also I am not in a rush to finish, I prefer to take as long as is needed to get it right the first time as I loath having to do things over again. The base iron will be a modified Seig X3. Spindle motor is an ABB M2VA80B-4 3GVA082002-BSB The data plate states its a 3ph IP55 IEC 34-1 with the following wiring options. V 380-420 Y or 220-240 Delta @50Hz 1400rpm 0.75kW 2.3 / 4A V 440-480 Y or 250-280 Delta @60Hz 1680rpm 0.90kW 2.2 / 3.3A First thought was to get a decent sensorless vector 1.5kW VFD fed from my 220V 1ph line. I planned to underdrive the spindle 1.5:1 to provide decent torque, then over speed the motor to 6000rpm providing a max spindle rpm of 4000rpm. Other than a fly cutter the largest tool the machine is expected to use is 1/2". I am on rural power, and I have my own transformer feeding my property. I do have a rotary phase converter which feeds my Hurco KM3P knee mill, but I'm hoping to wire in VFD's so I won't need to run the rotary - feeding a 10hp motor to just sit there and generate the phantom leg is taking a big bite out of my wallet. My rate is $0.128/kWh. A while back there was mention of using a voltage doubler which output DC and feeding that directly into the VFD. I am now wondering if this might be a better way using a lower current 460V VFD to drive the spindle motor. What say you. -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Ramped feed rate.
I was thinking more of a 1 shot like a G04, and was thinking something like G01.1. However I think you may be closer to the proper code spot in the G61 / G64 area since this ramping would be also used for arc segments. ( more likely helical moves ) Idea being that a single move would start at the existing feed rate and ramp velocity to the new feed rate evenly over the length of the move. Now if this were modal you could have it ramp the velocity over the course of several segments, but that is getting beyond the realm of feasability at this point. Use - this allows adjustment for constant spindle load while the engagement % of the tool in the cut might vary. In very light cuts the load might not be measureable but the load transfered to the part needs to be limited. I don't see anyone needing this as a modal feed type - I figure the command can be issued on each line it is required just like a feed rate is required for each move while using Inverse time feedrates. On the interpreter side it should be an error if the feed rate is undefined before the first feed motion command. Why someone might need this function: A good example is when the material ahead of the cutter is required for structural support and that attempting to do the cut in multible passes would cause the part to be too weak and maybe destroyed by the cutting forces. I run into these type of issues with various castings and I have to "manually" cut them with CNC by running in single block mode and using the feed overide as each part is cut. To: Greg Bentzinger ; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Ramped feed rate. Hi Greg, Sorry for taking so long to answer. I've been working on the trajectory planner recently, so I can try to weigh in on your question. First of all, I'm curious what the application for this would be. Do you use it as a "one-off" move, or would you run a whole program this way? It seems like this mode could useful when you have a program to do detailed profiling with short segments. The default planner would make a velocity profile that has more of a stair-step shape, since it will accelerate as fast it can to the requested speed. This is a minor change in the trajectory planner. The bigger issue is how we'd want to control this mode. One way could be to create a new G-code, similar to G61 / G64. It could also be done by HAL-pin, if you didn't need to switch between modes during a program. I'm curious what others think about this. Would anyone else find this useful? -Rob On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Greg Bentzinger wrote: (Ok here I am mumbling into a microphone before the crowd... ) > >But going way, way, way back ( Picture in your minds eye teletypes and paper >tape programs...) I had always wanted a ramped feed rate command. > >Like > >G1 X1. Z-.25 F20. >( ramp command) X4. Z-1. F5. > >So that the move from X1. Z-.25 to X4. Z-1. would start at F20. and slow to >F5. by completion of the move. > >This could be a one shot ( like a G04 ) or modal, or both. > >Another use would be for a part off lathe tool being fed in FeedPerMin vrs >FeedPerRevolution. > >Same could apply to feeding a tapered ream, start at F.02 end at F.002 ( FPR ) > >Often there are other easy ways to do things, but sometimes it would be the >best method - were it available. > >Just thinking outloud > >Greg > >-- >Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT >organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance >affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your >Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! >http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >___ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Ramped feed rate.
(Ok here I am mumbling into a microphone before the crowd... ) But going way, way, way back ( Picture in your minds eye teletypes and paper tape programs...) I had always wanted a ramped feed rate command. Like G1 X1. Z-.25 F20. ( ramp command) X4. Z-1. F5. So that the move from X1. Z-.25 to X4. Z-1. would start at F20. and slow to F5. by completion of the move. This could be a one shot ( like a G04 ) or modal, or both. Another use would be for a part off lathe tool being fed in FeedPerMin vrs FeedPerRevolution. Same could apply to feeding a tapered ream, start at F.02 end at F.002 ( FPR ) Often there are other easy ways to do things, but sometimes it would be the best method - were it available. Just thinking outloud Greg -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] "Slow" G code (sam sokolik)
Hey Sam; How does it the improved look ahead compare on the "chips" 3d NGC sample file? Greg -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Update HAL values without stalling motion (Charles Steinkuehler)
Quote: On 11/21/2013 12:41 AM, Marius Liebenberg wrote: > Charles you might find that any M code will cause a slight stoppage of > the head as the M codes are not computed like gcodes with constant > velocity in mind but rather as a separate command. Also it is not a > motion command so there will be no motion when it is executed. If I was > you I would look at doing a PWM with PID type controller for the temp > control and that you can feed with any kind of value on a hal pin to > control the temperature. A component in the background will not > interfere with the smooth running of the head. I'm running a PID loop in HAL to control the temperature (and a few other things like fan speed). I need to be able to update the set values via gcode with minimal impact on overall motion. I'm hoping the G67 works better than M1xx codes, but haven't tested it yet. -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net End Quote: If possible, parse your G-code and insert these changes only on the lines that move to the next Z level (slice). -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
