Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 31 Oct 2012, at 08:21, Russell Standish wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 01:14:47PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 10/28/2012 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: How do you answer the person who get the 1-7 points, and concludes (as he *believes* in a primary material world, and in comp) that this pro

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 01:14:47PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: > On 10/28/2012 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >How do you answer the person who get the 1-7 points, and concludes > >(as he *believes* in a primary material world, and in comp) that > >this proves that a physical universe, to procede cons

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 28 Oct 2012, at 21:14, meekerdb wrote: On 10/28/2012 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Oct 2012, at 00:19, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 05:13:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is y

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 28 Oct 2012, at 20:41, meekerdb wrote: On 10/28/2012 8:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Oct 2012, at 21:35, meekerdb wrote: On 10/27/2012 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that y

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/28/2012 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Oct 2012, at 00:19, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 05:13:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/28/2012 8:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Oct 2012, at 21:35, meekerdb wrote: On 10/27/2012 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I f

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 28 Oct 2012, at 00:19, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 05:13:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then. If you find the time, I am please if you can

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 27 Oct 2012, at 21:35, meekerdb wrote: On 10/27/2012 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movi

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 05:13:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, > but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then. > If you find the time, I am please if you can elaborate. I think > Russell too is not yet en

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/27/2012 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then. If you find the time, I am

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/ step-8, then. If you find the time, I am please if you can elaborate. I think R

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then. If you find the time, I am please if you can elaborate. I think Russell too is not yet entirely convinced. What bo

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 25 Oct 2012, at 19:49, meekerdb wrote: On 10/25/2012 8:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent wrote: If you're going to explain purpose, meaning, qualia, thoughts,...you need to start from something simpler that does not assume those things. Bruno proposes to explain matter as well, so

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 25 Oct 2012, at 19:10, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/25/2012 11:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If you're going to explain purpose, meaning, qualia, thoughts,...you need to start from something simpler that does not assume those things. Bruno proposes to explain matter as well, so he has

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/25/2012 8:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Oct 2012, at 22:20, meekerdb wrote: On 10/24/2012 11:58 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/23 Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> On 22 Oct 2012, at 21:50, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Stephen P. King mailto:steph

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/25/2012 11:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If you're going to explain purpose, meaning, qualia, thoughts,...you need to start from something simpler that does not assume those things. Bruno proposes to explain matter as well, so he has to start without matter. Actually I deduce the absenc

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 24 Oct 2012, at 22:20, meekerdb wrote: On 10/24/2012 11:58 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/23 Bruno Marchal On 22 Oct 2012, at 21:50, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Stephen P. King On 10/22/2012 2:38 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Russell Standish On Sun, Oc

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 24 Oct 2012, at 20:58, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/23 Bruno Marchal On 22 Oct 2012, at 21:50, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Stephen P. King On 10/22/2012 2:38 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Russell Standish On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P.

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 22 Oct 2012, at 20:13, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/22/2012 2:38 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Russell Standish On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > Hi Rusell, > > How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of resources? > > -- > Onward! > >

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/24/2012 11:58 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/23 Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> On 22 Oct 2012, at 21:50, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Stephen P. King mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> On 10/22/2012 2:38 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 201

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 22 Oct 2012, at 21:50, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Stephen P. King On 10/22/2012 2:38 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Russell Standish On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > Hi Rusell, > > How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/22/2012 5:50 PM, Russell Standish wrote: Schmidhuber does not consider ontology at all. He merely asks the question "What if we're living inside a universal dovetailer?". Hi Russell, That is an ontological question in my thinking, but I will not quibble this point. He doesn't ask

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 01:45:11PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > On 10/22/2012 2:32 AM, Russell Standish wrote: > >On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > >>Hi Rusell, > >> > >> How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of resources? > >> > >>-- > >>Onward! > >

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012/10/22 Stephen P. King > On 10/22/2012 2:38 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > > > 2012/10/22 Russell Standish > >> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: >> > Hi Rusell, >> > >> > How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of resources? >> > >> > -- >> > Onwa

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/22/2012 2:38 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2012/10/22 Russell Standish > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > Hi Rusell, > > How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of resources? > > -- > On

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/22/2012 2:32 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi Rusell, How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of resources? -- Onward! Stephen No. The concept doesn't enter consideration. What he considers is that the Great Prog

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 21 Oct 2012, at 22:03, Alberto G. Corona wrote: This does not implies a reality created by an UD algorithm. It may be a mathematical universe, that is a superset of the computable universes. The computable universe is a subset of the mathematical universe. Just compare: the computable

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012/10/22 Russell Standish > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 10:03:48PM +0200, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > This does not implies a reality created by an UD algorithm. It may be a > > mathematical universe, that is a superset of the computable universes. > The > > measure problem in the UD algorith tra

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012/10/22 Russell Standish > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > > Hi Rusell, > > > > How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of resources? > > > > -- > > Onward! > > > > Stephen > > No. The concept doesn't enter consideration. What he considers is that >

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:38:46PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > Hi Rusell, > > How does Schmidhuber consider the physicality of resources? > > -- > Onward! > > Stephen No. The concept doesn't enter consideration. What he considers is that the Great Programmer has finite (or perhaps boun

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/21/2012 3:48 AM, Russell Standish wrote: I worry a bit about the use of the word "all" in your remark. >"All" is too big, usually, to have a single constructable measure! >Why not consider some large enough but finite collections of >programs, such as what would be captured by the idea of

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 10:03:48PM +0200, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > This does not implies a reality created by an UD algorithm. It may be a > mathematical universe, that is a superset of the computable universes. The > measure problem in the UD algorith translates to the problem of the > effectiv

Re: Code length = probability distribution

This does not implies a reality created by an UD algorithm. It may be a mathematical universe, that is a superset of the computable universes. The measure problem in the UD algorith translates to the problem of the effectivity of the Occam Razor, or the problem of the apparent simplicity of the phi

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/21/2012 3:48 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 07:07:14PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/20/2012 5:45 PM, Russell Standish wrote: A UD generates and executes all programs, many of which are equivalent. So some programs are represented more than others. The COMP meas

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 07:07:14PM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote: > On 10/20/2012 5:45 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > >A UD generates and executes all programs, many of which are > >equivalent. So some programs are represented more than others. The > >COMP measure is a function over all programs that

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/20/2012 5:45 PM, Russell Standish wrote: A UD generates and executes all programs, many of which are equivalent. So some programs are represented more than others. The COMP measure is a function over all programs that captures this variation in program respresentation. Why should this be u

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 09:16:54PM +0200, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > This is not a consequence of the shannon optimum coding , in which the > coding size of a symbol is inversely proportional to the logaritm of the > frequency of the symbol?. Not quite. Traditional shannon entropy uses probabili

Re: Code length = probability distribution

This is not a consequence of the shannon optimum coding , in which the coding size of a symbol is inversely proportional to the logaritm of the frequency of the symbol?. What is exactly the comp measure problem? 2012/10/19 Stephen P. King > Hi, > > I was looking up a definition and found t

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 02:03:27PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: > On 10/19/2012 10:54 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I was looking up a definition and found the following: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_description_length > >"Central to MDL theory is the one-to-one correspondence b

Re: Code length = probability distribution

On 10/19/2012 10:54 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi, I was looking up a definition and found the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_description_length "Central to MDL theory is the one-to-one correspondence between code length functions and probability distributions. (This follow

Code length = probability distribution

Hi, I was looking up a definition and found the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_description_length "Central to MDL theory is the one-to-one correspondence between code length functions and probability distributions. (This follows from the Kraft-McMillan inequality.) For any