Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Thomas, Yes, I do suppose so. Unfortunately I do not have any kind of 5.1 or 7.1 setup here. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:27 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Hayden, Well, part could be your sound setup. Understand that standard stereo headphones and/or speakers will not accurately render a 3d virtual audio environment. To really do this correctly you need a 5.1 stereo sound card, 5.1 speakers with 5 or more speakers, or some of the pro gamer headsets specially built for 5.1 surround sound. In other words if you really want to take full advantage of that 5.1 surround sound setup, even if the game supports it, you will have to purchase a couple hundred dollars worth of high end gear to play it. The other issue you might be facing is DirectSound verses OpenAL, XAudio2, FMOD, etc. DirectSound was written in 1995/1996 for Windows 95 era computers. It was continually upgraded and maintained clear up to DirectX 8 was released. At the time DirectX 8 was released the best sound card available was the Creative Labs Soundblaster Live which initially had 4.1 channel stereo not 5.1. As a result since DirectSound 8 has not been officially updated since 2000 or so it does not really support 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound stereo as all newer sound cards have. That's why DirectX 9, 10, and 11 now use XAudio2 because it has 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound support. This has superior 3d audio support over DirectSound. On Linux and Mac OS OpenAL has been updated to support 5.1 and 7.1 sound cards as well. For that reason DirectSound isn't necessarily the right library for anyone looking into a high end virtual 3d audio environment. However, to answer your initial question why one is better than the other there are several reasons. For one thing libraries like FMOD Ex have built in formulas to properly calculate things like roll-off factor, doplar effects, and things of that nature. You can't really do that with a simple 2d pan control and volume. I guess you could if you want to do all the number crunching your self, but why do that when FMOD Ex has this already built into the sound engine? The main reason I see for 3d audio is with the proper hardware, the proper equipment, the sound is very very realistic. Have you ever played GMA tank commander with a set of 5.1 pro gamer headphones. You feel like you are right in the center of the battle field. It is way better than panning/volume by far. You have to hear it to believe it. Smile. On 2/4/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Ken, > I'm still confused; I haven't yet figured out why 3D audio is preferable to > plain 2D, even in a 3D environment. It seems to not pan correctly as you > turn so you have to kind of guess. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Damien, Right. Generally they aren't the kind of thing you can just go in and buy from any electronics store etc. I think I got my set from Amazon.com, but other online retailers should cary them as well. The last time I looked at them they started at around $99 USD and went up from there. Price depended on if you wanted wireless, a boom microphone, and some other features like that. Unlike a normal set of headphones these plug into your USB port and act as a seperate audio playback device on your computer. They are also pretty big with three speakers in each ear. I suppose that is so they can properly do the 5.1 surround sound. Beyond that I can't really tell you about the current headphones as I haven't looked at them in a long while. Cheers! On 2/5/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Thomas, > Where can you get these "high-end" headphones from and how much roughly do > they cost? The highest spec headphones I can find are only large hi-fi > stereo headphones, bearing in mind these don't even sound very good. For > example, the bass doesn't show well on it, neither do the high freqs. Is > that to do with my sound card? Can you get headphones that act like an audio > playback device in their own right? I'm assuming you won't be able to get > anything like this at any local retailer electronic store or anything. > Regards, > Damien. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
true but who has that cash. I spent some cash on some hd205s and hd201 senheiser headsets but and with my cheapy realtech the games sound quite good. I don't have room for the speakers or the cash for those the card and really good phones. As it was I was lucky I got those headphones. At 07:26 a.m. 6/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Hayden, Well, part could be your sound setup. Understand that standard stereo headphones and/or speakers will not accurately render a 3d virtual audio environment. To really do this correctly you need a 5.1 stereo sound card, 5.1 speakers with 5 or more speakers, or some of the pro gamer headsets specially built for 5.1 surround sound. In other words if you really want to take full advantage of that 5.1 surround sound setup, even if the game supports it, you will have to purchase a couple hundred dollars worth of high end gear to play it. The other issue you might be facing is DirectSound verses OpenAL, XAudio2, FMOD, etc. DirectSound was written in 1995/1996 for Windows 95 era computers. It was continually upgraded and maintained clear up to DirectX 8 was released. At the time DirectX 8 was released the best sound card available was the Creative Labs Soundblaster Live which initially had 4.1 channel stereo not 5.1. As a result since DirectSound 8 has not been officially updated since 2000 or so it does not really support 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound stereo as all newer sound cards have. That's why DirectX 9, 10, and 11 now use XAudio2 because it has 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound support. This has superior 3d audio support over DirectSound. On Linux and Mac OS OpenAL has been updated to support 5.1 and 7.1 sound cards as well. For that reason DirectSound isn't necessarily the right library for anyone looking into a high end virtual 3d audio environment. However, to answer your initial question why one is better than the other there are several reasons. For one thing libraries like FMOD Ex have built in formulas to properly calculate things like roll-off factor, doplar effects, and things of that nature. You can't really do that with a simple 2d pan control and volume. I guess you could if you want to do all the number crunching your self, but why do that when FMOD Ex has this already built into the sound engine? The main reason I see for 3d audio is with the proper hardware, the proper equipment, the sound is very very realistic. Have you ever played GMA tank commander with a set of 5.1 pro gamer headphones. You feel like you are right in the center of the battle field. It is way better than panning/volume by far. You have to hear it to believe it. Smile. On 2/4/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Ken, > I'm still confused; I haven't yet figured out why 3D audio is preferable to > plain 2D, even in a 3D environment. It seems to not pan correctly as you > turn so you have to kind of guess. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Thomas, Where can you get these "high-end" headphones from and how much roughly do they cost? The highest spec headphones I can find are only large hi-fi stereo headphones, bearing in mind these don't even sound very good. For example, the bass doesn't show well on it, neither do the high freqs. Is that to do with my sound card? Can you get headphones that act like an audio playback device in their own right? I'm assuming you won't be able to get anything like this at any local retailer electronic store or anything. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Hayden, Well, part could be your sound setup. Understand that standard stereo headphones and/or speakers will not accurately render a 3d virtual audio environment. To really do this correctly you need a 5.1 stereo sound card, 5.1 speakers with 5 or more speakers, or some of the pro gamer headsets specially built for 5.1 surround sound. In other words if you really want to take full advantage of that 5.1 surround sound setup, even if the game supports it, you will have to purchase a couple hundred dollars worth of high end gear to play it. The other issue you might be facing is DirectSound verses OpenAL, XAudio2, FMOD, etc. DirectSound was written in 1995/1996 for Windows 95 era computers. It was continually upgraded and maintained clear up to DirectX 8 was released. At the time DirectX 8 was released the best sound card available was the Creative Labs Soundblaster Live which initially had 4.1 channel stereo not 5.1. As a result since DirectSound 8 has not been officially updated since 2000 or so it does not really support 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound stereo as all newer sound cards have. That's why DirectX 9, 10, and 11 now use XAudio2 because it has 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound support. This has superior 3d audio support over DirectSound. On Linux and Mac OS OpenAL has been updated to support 5.1 and 7.1 sound cards as well. For that reason DirectSound isn't necessarily the right library for anyone looking into a high end virtual 3d audio environment. However, to answer your initial question why one is better than the other there are several reasons. For one thing libraries like FMOD Ex have built in formulas to properly calculate things like roll-off factor, doplar effects, and things of that nature. You can't really do that with a simple 2d pan control and volume. I guess you could if you want to do all the number crunching your self, but why do that when FMOD Ex has this already built into the sound engine? The main reason I see for 3d audio is with the proper hardware, the proper equipment, the sound is very very realistic. Have you ever played GMA tank commander with a set of 5.1 pro gamer headphones. You feel like you are right in the center of the battle field. It is way better than panning/volume by far. You have to hear it to believe it. Smile. On 2/4/11, Hayden Presley wrote: Hi Ken, I'm still confused; I haven't yet figured out why 3D audio is preferable to plain 2D, even in a 3D environment. It seems to not pan correctly as you turn so you have to kind of guess. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Hayden, Well, part could be your sound setup. Understand that standard stereo headphones and/or speakers will not accurately render a 3d virtual audio environment. To really do this correctly you need a 5.1 stereo sound card, 5.1 speakers with 5 or more speakers, or some of the pro gamer headsets specially built for 5.1 surround sound. In other words if you really want to take full advantage of that 5.1 surround sound setup, even if the game supports it, you will have to purchase a couple hundred dollars worth of high end gear to play it. The other issue you might be facing is DirectSound verses OpenAL, XAudio2, FMOD, etc. DirectSound was written in 1995/1996 for Windows 95 era computers. It was continually upgraded and maintained clear up to DirectX 8 was released. At the time DirectX 8 was released the best sound card available was the Creative Labs Soundblaster Live which initially had 4.1 channel stereo not 5.1. As a result since DirectSound 8 has not been officially updated since 2000 or so it does not really support 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound stereo as all newer sound cards have. That's why DirectX 9, 10, and 11 now use XAudio2 because it has 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound support. This has superior 3d audio support over DirectSound. On Linux and Mac OS OpenAL has been updated to support 5.1 and 7.1 sound cards as well. For that reason DirectSound isn't necessarily the right library for anyone looking into a high end virtual 3d audio environment. However, to answer your initial question why one is better than the other there are several reasons. For one thing libraries like FMOD Ex have built in formulas to properly calculate things like roll-off factor, doplar effects, and things of that nature. You can't really do that with a simple 2d pan control and volume. I guess you could if you want to do all the number crunching your self, but why do that when FMOD Ex has this already built into the sound engine? The main reason I see for 3d audio is with the proper hardware, the proper equipment, the sound is very very realistic. Have you ever played GMA tank commander with a set of 5.1 pro gamer headphones. You feel like you are right in the center of the battle field. It is way better than panning/volume by far. You have to hear it to believe it. Smile. On 2/4/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Ken, > I'm still confused; I haven't yet figured out why 3D audio is preferable to > plain 2D, even in a 3D environment. It seems to not pan correctly as you > turn so you have to kind of guess. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
On Sat, Feb 05, 2011 at 05:29:29PM +1300, shaun everiss wrote: > I have had a drive fall over. > I almost lost everything I owned. > And that would really suck. [My Reply:] Ever think of checking the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) rating on the drive to see how many hours it's expected to last, then check the date of the first file created and the last and compare the two? I know mine are rated for five years of continuous operation, and I expect to have saved up enough by then to replace them. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti to around 22 cents a day needed to be set aside. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
well, I have the data on my external and run that. I also have a backup. I have had a drive fall over. I almost lost everything I owned. And that would really suck. I managed to get it back partly by fluke from another broken drive and partly from some other backups. I still lost a few things but not everything. Now if you ran your win7 user from the external drive, pluss all your critical programs and things failed. Well you would have an issue. If you really want to do that. then at least run your critical programs off your drive, or if win7 is running the user account of the drive have a backup account with everything running over the other drive so if it dies you are not out of luck. I have had someone have that same thing. I don't recomend it. Firstly reformatting makes it work again, then well a roasted drive you can't even recover stuff via non expensive means, hmmm don't go there man. At 04:51 a.m. 5/02/2011, you wrote: HI Damien, I see. Well, I guess I understand your logic to a point, but it definitely isn't very portable that way. I guess I was assuming you were like most laptop users that install all of your apps to the hhard drive, and store books, movies, setup files, whatever on the external. That's what I do and it works out fine for me. That leaves me the option to unplug any external device and connect another one in its place. Cheers! On 2/4/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Thomas, > Everything I do is on my external hard drive. I have mapped most of the > applications on my system to use my external hard drive, since that is where > my data is. If a program needs to update itself, it downloads temporarily to > my external drive. This is especially the case with my antivirus. All my > scheduled downloads, for example podcasts, radio dramas etc, all download to > my drive. Servers use data off there. Unplugging that is asking for trouble. > It could cause quite a few applications to have hissy fits and I may find > error dialogs left right and centre. > Anyway, that's slightly off topic. I'm just saying my system is set up to > use everything that is connected to it on a more or less permanent basis. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Ken, I'm still confused; I haven't yet figured out why 3D audio is preferable to plain 2D, even in a 3D environment. It seems to not pan correctly as you turn so you have to kind of guess. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ken the Crazy Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:49 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Also, you could reserve 3d audio for pro. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Philip Bennefall" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question > Hi Philip, > > While I do understand your problem I do feel it would be wrong to > restrict someone from using mouse and joystick support, and force them > to purchase a more expensive license to have access to those devices. > One thing we are seriously lacking in accessible games is decent > quality support for joysticks, racing wheels, gamepads, mice, etc. I > just feel these features should be included along side keyboard > support. > > As for pathfinding perhaps make that a pro feature. After all, it is a > more advanced feature of the engine and could reasonably considered a > Pro option. That's how I'd view it if I were in your position. > > Cheers! > > > On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: >> Hi there, >> >> I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a >> tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding >> should >> also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 >> to >> get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from >> pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what >> you >> are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as >> possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't >> restrict >> some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Philip Bennefall > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi, I think he was referring to the number of ports that would be filled with the mouse, joystick, midi keyboard, and everything else. But I have to agree; what does all that stuff have to be connected for? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:05 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Damien, Damien wrote: A game controller and external mouse would fill up three USB ports on the machine. My reply: Ummm...How exactly do you figure that. That's only two ports as far as I can see. One for the game controller and one for the mouse. Damien wrote: I am using a laptop, which is meant to be portable, I am already connecting an external hard drive, keyboard, printer, router and MIDI keyboard. If I had to connect any more external devices I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded with the amount of required power to run everything. Lol. My reply: I know the feeling. My laptop is in a similar situation. However, the most practical answer to that problem is to simply unhook whatever it is you are not using and hook up your game controller. Sheesh, its not like you can't do without an external hard drive or midi keyboard for a couple of hours. Cheers! On 2/4/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Philip, > I agree. If a keyboard can be used I think it should be. Especially as I am > using a laptop, which is meant to be portable, I am already connecting an > external hard drive, keyboard, printer, router and MIDI keyboard. If I had > to connect any more external devices I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded > with the amount of required power to run everything. Lol. > A game controller and external mouse would fill up three USB ports on the > machine itself and six ports on my external hub, if that gives you an idea. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
HI Damien, I see. Well, I guess I understand your logic to a point, but it definitely isn't very portable that way. I guess I was assuming you were like most laptop users that install all of your apps to the hhard drive, and store books, movies, setup files, whatever on the external. That's what I do and it works out fine for me. That leaves me the option to unplug any external device and connect another one in its place. Cheers! On 2/4/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Thomas, > Everything I do is on my external hard drive. I have mapped most of the > applications on my system to use my external hard drive, since that is where > my data is. If a program needs to update itself, it downloads temporarily to > my external drive. This is especially the case with my antivirus. All my > scheduled downloads, for example podcasts, radio dramas etc, all download to > my drive. Servers use data off there. Unplugging that is asking for trouble. > It could cause quite a few applications to have hissy fits and I may find > error dialogs left right and centre. > Anyway, that's slightly off topic. I'm just saying my system is set up to > use everything that is connected to it on a more or less permanent basis. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Thomas, Everything I do is on my external hard drive. I have mapped most of the applications on my system to use my external hard drive, since that is where my data is. If a program needs to update itself, it downloads temporarily to my external drive. This is especially the case with my antivirus. All my scheduled downloads, for example podcasts, radio dramas etc, all download to my drive. Servers use data off there. Unplugging that is asking for trouble. It could cause quite a few applications to have hissy fits and I may find error dialogs left right and centre. Anyway, that's slightly off topic. I'm just saying my system is set up to use everything that is connected to it on a more or less permanent basis. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Damien, Damien wrote: A game controller and external mouse would fill up three USB ports on the machine. My reply: Ummm...How exactly do you figure that. That's only two ports as far as I can see. One for the game controller and one for the mouse. Damien wrote: I am using a laptop, which is meant to be portable, I am already connecting an external hard drive, keyboard, printer, router and MIDI keyboard. If I had to connect any more external devices I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded with the amount of required power to run everything. Lol. My reply: I know the feeling. My laptop is in a similar situation. However, the most practical answer to that problem is to simply unhook whatever it is you are not using and hook up your game controller. Sheesh, its not like you can't do without an external hard drive or midi keyboard for a couple of hours. Cheers! On 2/4/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Philip, I agree. If a keyboard can be used I think it should be. Especially as I am using a laptop, which is meant to be portable, I am already connecting an external hard drive, keyboard, printer, router and MIDI keyboard. If I had to connect any more external devices I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded with the amount of required power to run everything. Lol. A game controller and external mouse would fill up three USB ports on the machine itself and six ports on my external hub, if that gives you an idea. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Philip, That's understandable. Right now with Mysteries of the ancients I am recommending at least a 10 button joystick, but it really is better to have a 12 button joystick or gamepad. Most can be purchased for under $50 in the USA which isn't really that expensive. Unfortunately, as you say not everyone owns a joystick or gamepad like that. Some don't have the money to invest, or simply don't see any need to try an alternative input method. Anyway, I'm satisfied with your descision. Including mouse and joystick support in light means you will still make some money off of it. Later once you add force feedback you can make that an advanced feature, which it is, and sell that version for a higher price. Cheers! On 2/4/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > I believe I will put mouse and joystick in lite, and then when I add force > feedback I will reserve that for pro. That way I can have something for both > worlds, as it were. > > As for joysticks being better, I'm sure they are in a lot of situations but > I can also see many cases where the keyboard might be preferable. In the > game I am currently developing and in those I have planned for the future, > the keyboard offers a lot more options than a joystick does. Unless, of > course, the gamers have a proper game pad with 8 or more buttons. Most audio > game players don't, however, and so it would be foolish for me to make games > that absolutel required these as I would be losing a lot of business. I have > a very basic joystick with 4 buttons, and that's it. I enjoy using it but > it's not my favorite source of input even for the games that do support it. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Damien, Damien wrote: A game controller and external mouse would fill up three USB ports on the machine. My reply: Ummm...How exactly do you figure that. That's only two ports as far as I can see. One for the game controller and one for the mouse. Damien wrote: I am using a laptop, which is meant to be portable, I am already connecting an external hard drive, keyboard, printer, router and MIDI keyboard. If I had to connect any more external devices I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded with the amount of required power to run everything. Lol. My reply: I know the feeling. My laptop is in a similar situation. However, the most practical answer to that problem is to simply unhook whatever it is you are not using and hook up your game controller. Sheesh, its not like you can't do without an external hard drive or midi keyboard for a couple of hours. Cheers! On 2/4/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Philip, > I agree. If a keyboard can be used I think it should be. Especially as I am > using a laptop, which is meant to be portable, I am already connecting an > external hard drive, keyboard, printer, router and MIDI keyboard. If I had > to connect any more external devices I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded > with the amount of required power to run everything. Lol. > A game controller and external mouse would fill up three USB ports on the > machine itself and six ports on my external hub, if that gives you an idea. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Philip, I agree. If a keyboard can be used I think it should be. Especially as I am using a laptop, which is meant to be portable, I am already connecting an external hard drive, keyboard, printer, router and MIDI keyboard. If I had to connect any more external devices I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded with the amount of required power to run everything. Lol. A game controller and external mouse would fill up three USB ports on the machine itself and six ports on my external hub, if that gives you an idea. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Thomas, I believe I will put mouse and joystick in lite, and then when I add force feedback I will reserve that for pro. That way I can have something for both worlds, as it were. As for joysticks being better, I'm sure they are in a lot of situations but I can also see many cases where the keyboard might be preferable. In the game I am currently developing and in those I have planned for the future, the keyboard offers a lot more options than a joystick does. Unless, of course, the gamers have a proper game pad with 8 or more buttons. Most audio game players don't, however, and so it would be foolish for me to make games that absolutel required these as I would be losing a lot of business. I have a very basic joystick with 4 buttons, and that's it. I enjoy using it but it's not my favorite source of input even for the games that do support it. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Philip, Yeah, I pretty much figured as much. A lot of people, blind from birth, are of the opinion that joysticks and mice are just extra controllers. The reason is they have never been exposed to the kinds of games that can benifit from alternative controllers and believe that the keyboard is the best game controller out there. It has only been in the last three/four years that audio games have come out to challenge that view. Games like Rail Racer, for example, absolutely require a joystick or mouse to be remotely good at the game, because the keyboard can't provide the very minute changes in joystick and/or mouse position. It is my feeling as more high quality accessible games like Rail Racer come out demonstrating how necessary these types of controllers can be for game play attitudes will change about the keyboard. Take Street Fighter as an example. I'm not an expert at the fighting genre games, but they are usually 55 to 60 frames per second. At that speed something like a keyboard would only slow you down. Joysticks and gamepads provide the gamer a fast input method that allows them to react at a high frame rate while providing the gamer with several specials and moves that simply can't be performed on a keyboard. For example, hold a kick button down while spinning the joystick around in a circle might deliver a fast spin kick to the head of an apponent. Keyboards, by design, just aren't able of pulling off such moves. Once you've experienced these more advanced moves and the speed of a joystick/gamepad the keyboard seams clunky and unweildy. Although, I have had a thought. You know you could always offer basic joystick and gamepad support in light, but for pro include force feedback support. This would provide developers the ability to support joysticks, but only pro game developers can add and use force feedback support. What do you think of that? Smile. On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi Thomas, I can see where you are coming from, and must agree after some thought. For me personally, as one who has never played mainstream games, the joystick and mouse are just extras. The keyboard is the primary input source for me, and always has been. But I have no problem making mouse and joystick support a lite feature. ThenI feel as though I'm still getting something back for my work, which I do not when people just use the demo. This is of course perfectly okay, I intended the demo to be free, but I'm starting to think that I'm giving too much away in the demo version. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. ---
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Thomas, I believe I will put mouse and joystick in lite, and then when I add force feedback I will reserve that for pro. That way I can have something for both worlds, as it were. As for joysticks being better, I'm sure they are in a lot of situations but I can also see many cases where the keyboard might be preferable. In the game I am currently developing and in those I have planned for the future, the keyboard offers a lot more options than a joystick does. Unless, of course, the gamers have a proper game pad with 8 or more buttons. Most audio game players don't, however, and so it would be foolish for me to make games that absolutel required these as I would be losing a lot of business. I have a very basic joystick with 4 buttons, and that's it. I enjoy using it but it's not my favorite source of input even for the games that do support it. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Philip, Yeah, I pretty much figured as much. A lot of people, blind from birth, are of the opinion that joysticks and mice are just extra controllers. The reason is they have never been exposed to the kinds of games that can benifit from alternative controllers and believe that the keyboard is the best game controller out there. It has only been in the last three/four years that audio games have come out to challenge that view. Games like Rail Racer, for example, absolutely require a joystick or mouse to be remotely good at the game, because the keyboard can't provide the very minute changes in joystick and/or mouse position. It is my feeling as more high quality accessible games like Rail Racer come out demonstrating how necessary these types of controllers can be for game play attitudes will change about the keyboard. Take Street Fighter as an example. I'm not an expert at the fighting genre games, but they are usually 55 to 60 frames per second. At that speed something like a keyboard would only slow you down. Joysticks and gamepads provide the gamer a fast input method that allows them to react at a high frame rate while providing the gamer with several specials and moves that simply can't be performed on a keyboard. For example, hold a kick button down while spinning the joystick around in a circle might deliver a fast spin kick to the head of an apponent. Keyboards, by design, just aren't able of pulling off such moves. Once you've experienced these more advanced moves and the speed of a joystick/gamepad the keyboard seams clunky and unweildy. Although, I have had a thought. You know you could always offer basic joystick and gamepad support in light, but for pro include force feedback support. This would provide developers the ability to support joysticks, but only pro game developers can add and use force feedback support. What do you think of that? Smile. On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi Thomas, I can see where you are coming from, and must agree after some thought. For me personally, as one who has never played mainstream games, the joystick and mouse are just extras. The keyboard is the primary input source for me, and always has been. But I have no problem making mouse and joystick support a lite feature. ThenI feel as though I'm still getting something back for my work, which I do not when people just use the demo. This is of course perfectly okay, I intended the demo to be free, but I'm starting to think that I'm giving too much away in the demo version. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
well I got a joystick. I tried a force feadback stick for a bit but it never worked out. Its to big for my desk as it is. I have a mouse but I still prefur the keyboard. I may eventually get a propper gamepad or gaming mouse. THe one with 10 or more buttons something compact. At 10:15 p.m. 4/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Philip, Yeah, I pretty much figured as much. A lot of people, blind from birth, are of the opinion that joysticks and mice are just extra controllers. The reason is they have never been exposed to the kinds of games that can benifit from alternative controllers and believe that the keyboard is the best game controller out there. It has only been in the last three/four years that audio games have come out to challenge that view. Games like Rail Racer, for example, absolutely require a joystick or mouse to be remotely good at the game, because the keyboard can't provide the very minute changes in joystick and/or mouse position. It is my feeling as more high quality accessible games like Rail Racer come out demonstrating how necessary these types of controllers can be for game play attitudes will change about the keyboard. Take Street Fighter as an example. I'm not an expert at the fighting genre games, but they are usually 55 to 60 frames per second. At that speed something like a keyboard would only slow you down. Joysticks and gamepads provide the gamer a fast input method that allows them to react at a high frame rate while providing the gamer with several specials and moves that simply can't be performed on a keyboard. For example, hold a kick button down while spinning the joystick around in a circle might deliver a fast spin kick to the head of an apponent. Keyboards, by design, just aren't able of pulling off such moves. Once you've experienced these more advanced moves and the speed of a joystick/gamepad the keyboard seams clunky and unweildy. Although, I have had a thought. You know you could always offer basic joystick and gamepad support in light, but for pro include force feedback support. This would provide developers the ability to support joysticks, but only pro game developers can add and use force feedback support. What do you think of that? Smile. On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > I can see where you are coming from, and must agree after some thought. For > me personally, as one who has never played mainstream games, the joystick > and mouse are just extras. The keyboard is the primary input source for me, > and always has been. But I have no problem making mouse and joystick support > a lite feature. ThenI feel as though I'm still getting something back for my > work, which I do not when people just use the demo. This is of course > perfectly okay, I intended the demo to be free, but I'm starting to think > that I'm giving too much away in the demo version. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Philip, Yeah, I pretty much figured as much. A lot of people, blind from birth, are of the opinion that joysticks and mice are just extra controllers. The reason is they have never been exposed to the kinds of games that can benifit from alternative controllers and believe that the keyboard is the best game controller out there. It has only been in the last three/four years that audio games have come out to challenge that view. Games like Rail Racer, for example, absolutely require a joystick or mouse to be remotely good at the game, because the keyboard can't provide the very minute changes in joystick and/or mouse position. It is my feeling as more high quality accessible games like Rail Racer come out demonstrating how necessary these types of controllers can be for game play attitudes will change about the keyboard. Take Street Fighter as an example. I'm not an expert at the fighting genre games, but they are usually 55 to 60 frames per second. At that speed something like a keyboard would only slow you down. Joysticks and gamepads provide the gamer a fast input method that allows them to react at a high frame rate while providing the gamer with several specials and moves that simply can't be performed on a keyboard. For example, hold a kick button down while spinning the joystick around in a circle might deliver a fast spin kick to the head of an apponent. Keyboards, by design, just aren't able of pulling off such moves. Once you've experienced these more advanced moves and the speed of a joystick/gamepad the keyboard seams clunky and unweildy. Although, I have had a thought. You know you could always offer basic joystick and gamepad support in light, but for pro include force feedback support. This would provide developers the ability to support joysticks, but only pro game developers can add and use force feedback support. What do you think of that? Smile. On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > I can see where you are coming from, and must agree after some thought. For > me personally, as one who has never played mainstream games, the joystick > and mouse are just extras. The keyboard is the primary input source for me, > and always has been. But I have no problem making mouse and joystick support > a lite feature. ThenI feel as though I'm still getting something back for my > work, which I do not when people just use the demo. This is of course > perfectly okay, I intended the demo to be free, but I'm starting to think > that I'm giving too much away in the demo version. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Also, you could reserve 3d audio for pro. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Philip Bennefall" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Philip, While I do understand your problem I do feel it would be wrong to restrict someone from using mouse and joystick support, and force them to purchase a more expensive license to have access to those devices. One thing we are seriously lacking in accessible games is decent quality support for joysticks, racing wheels, gamepads, mice, etc. I just feel these features should be included along side keyboard support. As for pathfinding perhaps make that a pro feature. After all, it is a more advanced feature of the engine and could reasonably considered a Pro option. That's how I'd view it if I were in your position. Cheers! On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi there, I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 to get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't restrict some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
I would say that only advanced games are going to need path finding, whereas even a simple game, like Shock shot, could benefit from mouse support. I agree completely with Pitermach. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi there, I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 to get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't restrict some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:32 PM Subject: pro was: Re: [Audyssey] programming question Hi, Ok the path finding can be reserved for pro, but I really think that the mouse support should always be available. Not everyone will want to make a paid game with mouse support, so paying $100 just for that is a little. hmmm. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] programming question Hi Ken, Mouse support is coming in the new BGT release that I plan to put out within the next week or two, if all goes according to plan. Pathfinding is also available there. However, both of these features are reserved for pro users (e.g. those who use either pro single or pro unlimited). Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
I like the idea. Not having the mouse available as an input option is in many cases not an issue because of the way most games still use only keyboard input. This will just make that trend continue. In the interest of advancing alternative input options having the mouse in the light version would be a good compromise. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi again, I am really not sure. Isn't it fair to demand that if people want to use the more advanced input features that they pay a little extra? I really feel as though I am giving away too much, since people can use the engine completely free of charge for open source games. One compromize might be to allow mouse and joystick support in lite and pro, but not in the demo. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
I have to agree. Honestly. I can understand why people would want this. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:40 PM To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Philip, Well, I guess this all depends upon your view of what is important/essential. You are considering joysticks and mice advanced input features. I don't see it that way. It is my firm believe that all input devices weather it is a keyboard, joystick, and mouse is equally important. Weather it is a free or commercial game all should offer mouse and joystick support just as they would a keyboard. There is a good reason why I feel so strongly about this. As you know for many years I was sighted. I grew up on mainstream games for the Atari and NES. Before I lost my sight I was beginning to get into PC games. For the better part of 20 years the input device I used most was a joystick, and during the PC game years I started to get use to the mouse. Bottom line, I'm most at home with those devices, and find the keyboard downright clunky and infurior to other game devices. So from my personal perspective joystick and mouse support is essential to have in any game regardless of cost. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm pretty sure any customers who are into mainstream games as I am, those who use consoles like the XBox, will be extremely disappointed if joysticks and mice are not a standard BGT feature. It is a case of once exposed to using those devices for game play you don't want to go back to using keyboards. The best thing I can suggest, if you are determined to make this a paid feature, is to remove it from the demo but include it for Light, Single Pro, and the Unlimited Pro versions. That's the best thing I can come up with. That way even free games using the Light version has that option. Let's give a quick example. Let's suppose that someone purchases the light bersion intending to create free games. Unfortunately, joysticks and mice are a pro only feature. Now, you are expecting him/her to pay $99 for that additional feature only to give away free games. I find it a bit unfair, but that's just my opinion. Cheers! On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi again, > > I am really not sure. Isn't it fair to demand that if people want to > use the more advanced input features that they pay a little extra? I > really feel as though I am giving away too much, since people can use > the engine completely free of charge for open source games. One > compromize might be to allow mouse and joystick support in lite and pro, but not in the demo. Any thoughts? > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Thomas, I can see where you are coming from, and must agree after some thought. For me personally, as one who has never played mainstream games, the joystick and mouse are just extras. The keyboard is the primary input source for me, and always has been. But I have no problem making mouse and joystick support a lite feature. ThenI feel as though I'm still getting something back for my work, which I do not when people just use the demo. This is of course perfectly okay, I intended the demo to be free, but I'm starting to think that I'm giving too much away in the demo version. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Philip, Well, I guess this all depends upon your view of what is important/essential. You are considering joysticks and mice advanced input features. I don't see it that way. It is my firm believe that all input devices weather it is a keyboard, joystick, and mouse is equally important. Weather it is a free or commercial game all should offer mouse and joystick support just as they would a keyboard. There is a good reason why I feel so strongly about this. As you know for many years I was sighted. I grew up on mainstream games for the Atari and NES. Before I lost my sight I was beginning to get into PC games. For the better part of 20 years the input device I used most was a joystick, and during the PC game years I started to get use to the mouse. Bottom line, I'm most at home with those devices, and find the keyboard downright clunky and infurior to other game devices. So from my personal perspective joystick and mouse support is essential to have in any game regardless of cost. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm pretty sure any customers who are into mainstream games as I am, those who use consoles like the XBox, will be extremely disappointed if joysticks and mice are not a standard BGT feature. It is a case of once exposed to using those devices for game play you don't want to go back to using keyboards. The best thing I can suggest, if you are determined to make this a paid feature, is to remove it from the demo but include it for Light, Single Pro, and the Unlimited Pro versions. That's the best thing I can come up with. That way even free games using the Light version has that option. Let's give a quick example. Let's suppose that someone purchases the light bersion intending to create free games. Unfortunately, joysticks and mice are a pro only feature. Now, you are expecting him/her to pay $99 for that additional feature only to give away free games. I find it a bit unfair, but that's just my opinion. Cheers! On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi again, I am really not sure. Isn't it fair to demand that if people want to use the more advanced input features that they pay a little extra? I really feel as though I am giving away too much, since people can use the engine completely free of charge for open source games. One compromize might be to allow mouse and joystick support in lite and pro, but not in the demo. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Philip, Well, I guess this all depends upon your view of what is important/essential. You are considering joysticks and mice advanced input features. I don't see it that way. It is my firm believe that all input devices weather it is a keyboard, joystick, and mouse is equally important. Weather it is a free or commercial game all should offer mouse and joystick support just as they would a keyboard. There is a good reason why I feel so strongly about this. As you know for many years I was sighted. I grew up on mainstream games for the Atari and NES. Before I lost my sight I was beginning to get into PC games. For the better part of 20 years the input device I used most was a joystick, and during the PC game years I started to get use to the mouse. Bottom line, I'm most at home with those devices, and find the keyboard downright clunky and infurior to other game devices. So from my personal perspective joystick and mouse support is essential to have in any game regardless of cost. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm pretty sure any customers who are into mainstream games as I am, those who use consoles like the XBox, will be extremely disappointed if joysticks and mice are not a standard BGT feature. It is a case of once exposed to using those devices for game play you don't want to go back to using keyboards. The best thing I can suggest, if you are determined to make this a paid feature, is to remove it from the demo but include it for Light, Single Pro, and the Unlimited Pro versions. That's the best thing I can come up with. That way even free games using the Light version has that option. Let's give a quick example. Let's suppose that someone purchases the light bersion intending to create free games. Unfortunately, joysticks and mice are a pro only feature. Now, you are expecting him/her to pay $99 for that additional feature only to give away free games. I find it a bit unfair, but that's just my opinion. Cheers! On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi again, > > I am really not sure. Isn't it fair to demand that if people want to use the > more advanced input features that they pay a little extra? I really feel as > though I am giving away too much, since people can use the engine completely > free of charge for open source games. One compromize might be to allow mouse > and joystick support in lite and pro, but not in the demo. Any thoughts? > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
I have to agree. I bet pathfinding was more complicated to write then mouse and joystick support. I know someone, mainly keyisfull who's working on this cane power game where you go around and swing your cane at people to kill them. I can see mouse support being a nice addition, but he can't buy bgt so he made it open-source. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi, I would still say make Mouse light. Leave pathfinding, file packing, registration etc etc in pro. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:28 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi there, I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 to get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't restrict some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:32 PM Subject: pro was: Re: [Audyssey] programming question Hi, Ok the path finding can be reserved for pro, but I really think that the mouse support should always be available. Not everyone will want to make a paid game with mouse support, so paying $100 just for that is a little. hmmm. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] programming question Hi Ken, Mouse support is coming in the new BGT release that I plan to put out within the next week or two, if all goes according to plan. Pathfinding is also available there. However, both of these features are reserved for pro users (e.g. those who use either pro single or pro unlimited). Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Philip, While I do understand your problem I do feel it would be wrong to restrict someone from using mouse and joystick support, and force them to purchase a more expensive license to have access to those devices. One thing we are seriously lacking in accessible games is decent quality support for joysticks, racing wheels, gamepads, mice, etc. I just feel these features should be included along side keyboard support. As for pathfinding perhaps make that a pro feature. After all, it is a more advanced feature of the engine and could reasonably considered a Pro option. That's how I'd view it if I were in your position. Cheers! On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi there, > > I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a > tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should > also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 to > get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from > pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you > are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as > possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't restrict > some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi Phillip, Probably a good idea. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:03 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi again, I am really not sure. Isn't it fair to demand that if people want to use the more advanced input features that they pay a little extra? I really feel as though I am giving away too much, since people can use the engine completely free of charge for open source games. One compromize might be to allow mouse and joystick support in lite and pro, but not in the demo. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Philip, While I do understand your problem I do feel it would be wrong to restrict someone from using mouse and joystick support, and force them to purchase a more expensive license to have access to those devices. One thing we are seriously lacking in accessible games is decent quality support for joysticks, racing wheels, gamepads, mice, etc. I just feel these features should be included along side keyboard support. As for pathfinding perhaps make that a pro feature. After all, it is a more advanced feature of the engine and could reasonably considered a Pro option. That's how I'd view it if I were in your position. Cheers! On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi there, > > I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a > tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should > also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 > to > get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from > pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you > are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as > possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't > restrict > some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi, I would still say make Mouse light. Leave pathfinding, file packing, registration etc etc in pro. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:28 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi there, I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 to get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't restrict some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:32 PM Subject: pro was: Re: [Audyssey] programming question Hi, Ok the path finding can be reserved for pro, but I really think that the mouse support should always be available. Not everyone will want to make a paid game with mouse support, so paying $100 just for that is a little. hmmm. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] programming question > Hi Ken, > > Mouse support is coming in the new BGT release that I plan to put out > within the next week or two, if all goes according to plan. Pathfinding is > also available there. However, both of these features are reserved for pro > users (e.g. those who use either pro single or pro unlimited). > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi again, I am really not sure. Isn't it fair to demand that if people want to use the more advanced input features that they pay a little extra? I really feel as though I am giving away too much, since people can use the engine completely free of charge for open source games. One compromize might be to allow mouse and joystick support in lite and pro, but not in the demo. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question Hi Philip, While I do understand your problem I do feel it would be wrong to restrict someone from using mouse and joystick support, and force them to purchase a more expensive license to have access to those devices. One thing we are seriously lacking in accessible games is decent quality support for joysticks, racing wheels, gamepads, mice, etc. I just feel these features should be included along side keyboard support. As for pathfinding perhaps make that a pro feature. After all, it is a more advanced feature of the engine and could reasonably considered a Pro option. That's how I'd view it if I were in your position. Cheers! On 2/3/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi there, I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 to get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't restrict some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] pro was: Re: programming question
Hi there, I am not sure. The decision about what should be in pro only is always a tough one. With the same reasoning you could argue that pathfinding should also be available to everyone, since not everyone will want to spend $100 to get this or that feature. What makes mouse support different from pathfinding in this context? On the one hand I understand exactly what you are saying, but on the other I have to try and make pro as appealing as possible aside from being allowed to make paid games and if I don't restrict some useful features, there is no point in doing so at all. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:32 PM Subject: pro was: Re: [Audyssey] programming question Hi, Ok the path finding can be reserved for pro, but I really think that the mouse support should always be available. Not everyone will want to make a paid game with mouse support, so paying $100 just for that is a little. hmmm. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] programming question Hi Ken, Mouse support is coming in the new BGT release that I plan to put out within the next week or two, if all goes according to plan. Pathfinding is also available there. However, both of these features are reserved for pro users (e.g. those who use either pro single or pro unlimited). Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
