Let it be. Use the software you like. Write the software you like.
Berate people over the truly important things, like choice of text
editor :-)
Hear hear! (But go emacs! ;-)
B... vi rules!
-Andy
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Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Of course that from the way Jon talks about me you can tell that
I do not always agree with him - Jon seems to only be friendly
to those that agree with him.
For the record, I've even committed the
Hear hear! (But go emacs! ;-)
B... vi rules!
Ed is the standard text editor.
http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html
:-)
Jeff Schnitzer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, I was reading alt.slack in '91 :-)
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Jeff Schnitzer wrote:
Hear hear! (But go emacs! ;-)
B... vi rules!
Ed is the standard text editor.
When I went to Uni. vi was considered too resource intensive - you had
to use ed.
ed rocks (well not really)
Conor
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Do you want a list of other funny channels?
=;o)
Have fun,
Paulo
-Original Message-
From: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 11:19 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: You guys are so funny.
Sorry, didn't intend to throw the whole mail
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: You guys are so funny.
From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Of course that from the way Jon talks about me you can tell that
I do not always agree with him - Jon seems to only be friendly
to those that agree with him.
For the record, I've
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 10:00 AM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: You guys are so funny.
Hey Jeff,
I can agree with all you say but I don't understand why you throw
this on my direction.
I have been defending the existence of competing projects since
On Fri, 3 May 2002 10:45, Sam Ruby wrote:
Just thought I would let you know.
I thought they were - just not in the haha sense :)
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Just thought I would let you know.
+1
The same old discussion - mine is longer then yours.
Greets
Gerhard
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on 5/2/02 10:38 PM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's everything you need to know to build Ant:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/~checkout~/jakarta-ant/build.xml
I guess there is no need to build a maven descriptor for Ant then? Sorry,
but it is not that simple.
- Sam Ruby
Jon Stevens wrote:
Maven is more than just a build system.
And Gump does at least one thing that Maven does not. And Centipede does
at least one thing that neither of then do.
So what you end up with is a venn diagram of information that each requires
- however the overlap are is information
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 5/2/02 5:28 PM, Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:) We'd probably be running UNIX on our desktops with a standard
and friendly GUI.
I am. I use a mac w/ OS X :)
Same here... Everywhere... :)
Pier
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Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jon Stevens wrote:
Maven is more than just a build system.
And Gump does at least one thing that Maven does not. And Centipede does
at least one thing that neither of then do.
So what you end up with is a venn diagram of information that each
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 5/2/02 5:28 PM, Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:) We'd probably be running UNIX on our desktops with a standard
and friendly GUI.
I am. I use a mac w/ OS X :)
Same here...
on 5/3/02 4:08 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Simple example: given an Scarab's build.xml file, can you write a DVSL
which extracts the name of the jar which can be produced?
- Sam Ruby
Yes, cause I can just put a simple object 'java.util.Properties' into the
context which gets it
Jon Stevens wrote:
Simple example: given an Scarab's build.xml file, can you write a DVSL
which extracts the name of the jar which can be produced?
Yes, cause I can just put a simple object 'java.util.Properties' into the
context which gets it out of the default.properties file.
Can you
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I am. I use a mac w/ OS X :)
Same here... Everywhere... :)
Me too. I'm hooked. TiBook wherever I go, dualie 800 at home. Can't go
back.
The Apple Java list has had some complaints recently that Sun don't care
about Apple users and
on 5/3/02 9:57 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you point out where the jar name is in the scarab/build/default.properties
file?
- Sam Ruby
In Velocity/DVSL, it would be built something like this (assuming a
java.util.Properties in the context as props:
on 5/3/02 10:04 AM, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Apple Java list has had some complaints recently that Sun don't care
about Apple users and that Apple can't supply the time to support Java
users.
Well duh. Apple's business model doesn't revolve around Java.
Apple are doing a
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
on 5/3/02 10:04 AM, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Apple Java list has had some complaints recently that Sun don't care
about Apple users and that Apple can't supply the time to support Java
users.
Well duh. Apple's business
On 5/3/02 1:04 PM, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I am. I use a mac w/ OS X :)
Same here... Everywhere... :)
Me too. I'm hooked. TiBook wherever I go, dualie 800 at home. Can't go
back.
I can see a good reason for
PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:05 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I am. I use a mac w/ OS X :)
Same here... Everywhere... :)
Me too. I'm hooked. TiBook wherever I go, dualie 800
to those that agree with him.
Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar
-Original Message-
From: Steven Noels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:34 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: RE: You guys are so funny.
Jon wrote:
People
--
Needless to say, the attitudes
I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if
'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to
get people to work togheter - and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
the standards.
Costin,
Being you quite a brilliant guy, I don't understand two troubles
you seem to have:
I got proven wrong from the
point of view
that enough people wanted T3 to survive. I got proven right that T3
distracted a limited set of resources (ie: people) from T4.
Uau! You already got HALF way.
You just still don't understand that T4 probably has more resources
thanks to T3 staying
discussion.
Several did already bite during this thread. Did you notice them?
Have fun,
Paulo
-Original Message-
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
on 5/2/02 4:57 PM, Craig R
. I'm fine with a tool that supports both.
Costin
You guys are so funny.
Bike Sheds
--
At first, people -1'd the use of Anakia to generate the Jakarta website. But
then when I took the effort to make it simple and easy to use and took away
the bike shed argument, people adopted
to work
togheter.
DVSL may be a nice language, but XSLT is the
standard - regardless of how
you play with the word. I'm fine with a tool that
supports both.
Costin
You guys are so funny.
Bike Sheds
--
At first, people -1'd the use of Anakia to generate
the Jakarta
Costin, just like with Tomcat 3 vs. Tomcat 4. We all learned
that you can't
force projects to work together. Nor can you vote -1 on it. Given our
history, I'm really surprised to hear you trying to argue for
something like
that. You hypocrite.
Again and again, the same bullshits.
Jon, take a
GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Costin, just like with Tomcat 3 vs. Tomcat 4. We all learned
that you can't
force projects to work together. Nor can you vote -1 on it. Given our
history, I'm really surprised to hear you trying to argue for
something like
that. You hypocrite.
Again
People
--
Needless to say, the attitudes here are becoming more and more familiar.
Andrew reminds me of the early days of dealing with Peter Donald (credit to
Peter for eventually coming to his senses...I think joining the PMC helped).
because I refuse to adopt things if they don't meet
Jon wrote:
People
--
Needless to say, the attitudes here are becoming more and
more familiar.
Andrew reminds me of the early days of dealing with Peter
Donald (credit to
Peter for eventually coming to his senses...I think joining
the PMC helped).
Steven reminds me of Paulo.
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Berin Loritsch wrote:
WIth certain limitations. Where is the Nag entries, etc.?
The nag entries are there now, after it was pointed out yesterday that
they weren't being added. I'm not sure what etc needs to be added to
the descriptor besides that, but I'm sure that we
Cool. I like being funny :-)
Hey, Paulo! Let's meet! We can become friends and switch xsl:templates!
/Steven
Count me in! I was thinking we could rewrite Velocity using a self
expressing XSL-based language, you know make it completely declarative
and have the Java done on the back with
Jon, take a closer look into tomcat-dev and you'll see that
projects could works together, using others ways in JTC,
coyote, jk/jk2, are the proof that tomcat developpers from
4.x and 3.3.x could works together...
Yeah right... And now where do _I_ stand? Hehehehehe :)
Near me my friend ;)
Jon calling me 'hypocrite'
That is a bit funny, at least after reading his arguments on this thread.
( and how this thread started, and all his actions on this subject ).
Well, as I said I will vote -1 on any switch to Maven wherever I have a
vote.
I never used ( and I don't plan to use
You guys are so funny.
My name is Hammer. I like to rave!
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on 5/2/02 11:52 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1. I need something that supports XSL in my build framework
Somehow I doubt that.
-jon
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on 5/2/02 12:23 PM, GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Costin, just like with Tomcat 3 vs. Tomcat 4. We all learned
that you can't
force projects to work together. Nor can you vote -1 on it. Given our
history, I'm really surprised to hear you trying to argue for
something like
that. You
on 5/2/02 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I never used ( and I don't plan to use ) Anakia
How did you generate this diff?
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/jakarta-site2/docs/site/binindex.html.dif
f?r1=1.70r2=1.71
Come on Costin, you keep shooting yourself in your foot.
.
Costin
You guys are so funny.
Bike Sheds
--
At first, people -1'd the use of Anakia to generate
the Jakarta website. But
then when I took the effort to make it simple and
easy to use and took away
the bike shed argument, people adopted it and used
it all over the world.
On top
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
on 5/2/02 1:25 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And because if we just use all jon's pet projects only jon would get
anything done ;-)
Maven isn't my pet project.
I just like it cause it works for me.
-jon
And if the two were to work together as Ken
Jon wrote:
on 5/2/02 11:52 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1. I need something that supports XSL in my build framework
Somehow I doubt that.
-jon
I will submit this thread as background material for my JSR proposal
based upon the existing JSR-57: Long-Term Persistence for
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Sure, the developers are working together on *some* stuff, but the core
products they are not and my original Tomcat arguments were that it was lame
to have two different containers. I got proven wrong from the point of view
that enough people wanted T3 to survive. I
Steven Noels wrote:
Jon wrote:
on 5/2/02 11:52 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1. I need something that supports XSL in my build framework
Somehow I doubt that.
-jon
I will submit this thread as background material for my JSR proposal
based upon the existing JSR-57: Long-Term
Pedantic, I know, but here goes anyway:
Leo wrote:
Avalon currently uses cocoon (sort of an eat-your-own-dogfood
case), and
other developers would like this to stay that way. There is a tool(4)
that does the same thing as the jakarta project, created by
people from
xml.apache. The tool
- Original Message -
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
You're still missing the point ... The main detail to me is I'd like to
use a combined collaborated
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if
'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to
get people to work togheter - and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
the standards.
Microsoft did not get where it was by using
Why am I so obnoxious about all this? My commercial alter-ego (I did
start up a company 6 months ago, hopefully I will now be respected as a
grown-up ;-) wants to provide such an infrastructure to my customers,
since they are going already through the pain of switching from Cobol to
Java/XML
Michael McCallum wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if
'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to
get people to work togheter - and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
the standards.
Microsoft did not
with a tool that
supports both.
Costin
You guys are so funny.
Bike Sheds
--
At first, people -1'd the use of Anakia to generate
the Jakarta website. But
then when I took the effort to make it simple and
easy to use and took away
the bike shed argument, people adopted it and used
it all over
Berin Loritsch says:
There are other dirty underhanded things that M$ did to get where it
is today. Don't try to compare us to M$. We're not M$.
Whenever someone tells me how much MSFT has done for technology, I
can't help but think of how far we might have gotten if MSFT hadn't
been so in
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Berin Loritsch says:
There are other dirty underhanded things that M$ did to get where it
is today. Don't try to compare us to M$. We're not M$.
Whenever someone tells me how much MSFT has done for technology, I
can't help but think of how far we might have
On Thu, 2 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:24:58 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
Berin Loritsch says:
There are other dirty
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
It seems to me that authors of a build environment that they want
everyone to use would think about going and asking the potential users
(i.e. committers on various other projects) what their requirements are,
before any attempt (by those authors, or by anyone
Berin Loritsch wrote:
Michael McCallum wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if
'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to
get people to work togheter - and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
the
On 5/2/02 5:28 PM, Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Berin Loritsch says:
There are other dirty underhanded things that M$ did to get where it
is today. Don't try to compare us to M$. We're not M$.
Whenever someone tells me how much MSFT has done for
Jon said:
On top of it, in *years*, no one has gone and replaced Jakarta-site2 with
anything better. Sure, Craig did a XSLT stylesheet, but no one changed the
main Jakarta site to use it and I still see new Anakia sites on
Sourceforget.net all the time.
Which, I believe, highlights a major
explain exactly WHAT that has to do with this? Who gives a rats behind
about Microsoft. (warning: irony)
-Andy
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 16:52, Michael McCallum wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if
'simpler'
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
You all seemed to miss my point.
M$ does not support standards they make then.
I dont like it but thats the way things work.
I run pure gnu-linux.
If you make something easy to use people use it. It becomes a standard.
Simple.
For complex things
@ ? xml.apache or
jakarta.apache :) )
-marc=
-Original Message-
From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: donderdag 2 mei 2002 23:31
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
On Thu, 2 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 14:24:58
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On 5/2/02 5:45 PM, Santiago Gala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even the Velocity vs XSLT could be a case for Worse is better :-)
(Seriously, I have been thinking along these lines for the last days)
That's DVSL vs XSLT.
I was slightly off-focus. I was thinking
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Michael McCallum wrote:
I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if
'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to
get people to work togheter - and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
the standards.
Microsoft did not get where it was by using
I think I've been saying this long enough. . MERGE MERGE MERGE!
How about we all stop the windbagging and start the code. If you've got an
itch scratch it - lets take this dicsussion to Krysalis-dev, as it's
completely OT here.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work:
Berin Writes:
| Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
|
| It seems to me that authors of a build environment that they want
| everyone to use would think about going and asking the potential
users
| (i.e. committers on various other projects) what their requirements
are,
| before any attempt (by
On Fri, 3 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think I've been saying this long enough. . MERGE MERGE MERGE!
smiling
I can't help sitting here thinking about how the committers on projects
being told to MERGE MERGE MERGE must feel like two young adults whose
parents want them to get married
On Fri, 3 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
As for people shoving Maven down other people's throats, I'd like to know
where the Maven developers have been doing that. From what I can see the
Maven developers have been fairly balanced.
As I tried to point out in my parenthetical
on 5/2/02 4:57 PM, Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I tried to point out in my parenthetical remark -- it wasn't the Maven
committers who started this whole thing ... it was our favorite iconoclast
himself (Jon), who seems to believe that anything that makes him happy
should
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if
'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to
get people to work togheter - and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
the standards.
Standards are funny things. There's always so many to choose
For all the nasty things Microsoft has done over the years, they have also
been pretty good at one particular thing -- asking their customers (and
potential customers) what they want, and listening to the answer.
It seems to me that authors of a build environment that they want
everyone
smirk/ Oddly the centipede side supports collaboration
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 19:53, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think I've been saying this long enough. . MERGE MERGE MERGE!
smiling
I can't help sitting here thinking about how the
My understanding is that the Maven guys are totally against merging and
collaborating. So it isn't just jon.
-Andy
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 19:57, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
As for people shoving Maven down other people's throats, I'd
I listen to the following:
Code.
Patches.
Real suggestions for improvement.
MERGE
Intelligent discussion.
duhhh
I don't listen to the following:
Flame wars about technologies used.
so why did you start one
Whiny people who can't learn a new technology.
ant.
Talk is cheap and almost useless, as we've all heard the last two days.
Code/Docs are far more valuable. I believe the usual way is to start with a
cohesive proposal.
agreed. Writing docs for centipede.
As for people shoving Maven down other people's throats, I'd like to know
Dude, do you really need to respond to *every single* piece of mail?
Jeff
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 5:51 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
[part bazillion deleted
Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
[part bazillion deleted]
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http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound
Document
on 5/2/02 5:49 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I listen to the following:
Code.
Patches.
Real suggestions for improvement.
MERGE
It is your itch. Not mine.
Whiny people who can't learn a new technology.
I could... I just don't want to learn that
Just thought I would let you know.
- Sam Ruby
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Sam Ruby wrote:
Just thought I would let you know.
- Sam Ruby
+1
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So much so that there have been no replies to my post on
krysalis-developers.
If you guys are so serious, how about continuing the discussion where it's
appropriate.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers:
So lets do it.
I'm working on the documentation everyone keeps complaining
aboutwatch the commits.
Grab a hammer and lets start talking about how to create an XSL vs DVSL
module. I suggest a cent.
Move to krysalis discussion list for now.
I'm done here.
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 21:10,
Jon Stevens wrote:
I listen to the following:
Code.
Patches.
Real suggestions for improvement.
Intelligent discussion.
I don't listen to the following:
Flame wars about technologies used.
Whiny people who can't learn a new technology.
Whiny people who only use
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
I really wonder why it is that all one has to do is say Microsoft on
any Apache thread and they get 100 responses. I wonder if it works
that
way on whatever-microsoft-related-lists are out there.
Someone needs to update Ellison's Law,
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Friday, 03 May, 2002 10:00, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
explain exactly WHAT that has to do with this? Who gives a rats behind
about Microsoft. (warning: irony)
Sorry my point was whomever makes the tool easier to use will be the one that is
Sam, I asked yesterday or the day before on this list what needs to be
done. I'm waiting on you for a reply. I'm an active developer on maven.
Yesterday we added the nag tags in that were requested.
Actually (to keep everything honest) they didn't quite work out the way
I expected and have
dIon Gillard wrote:
I don't see how we can be more accomodating other than downloading,
installing and running our own Gump. From talking to Vincent on that,
it's
not a simple process, hence we are relying on the Gump developers to tell
us where we're going wrong.
Look at it from my
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
As I tried to point out in my parenthetical remark -- it wasn't the Maven
committers who started this whole thing ... it was our favorite iconoclast
himself (Jon), who seems to believe that anything that makes him happy
should make everybody
Sam,
His experience suggests that the Krysalis, Centipede, and Forrest have
been
very accommodating, so the ideal situation would be for an active
developer
on Maven to step forward.
Sam, I asked yesterday or the day before on this list what needs to be
done. I'm waiting on you for a reply.
:
05/03/02 10:55 Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
AM
on 5/2/02 7:42 PM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
but there must have been a reason why a different DTD was
chosen than Gump's. I made an effort to document the Gump data definitions
and there certainly is plenty of instance data to look at. Tell me what to
change, tell me what's wrong,
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Isn't XSLT all about transformations from one DTD to another?
What is the big deal about having different DTD's?
Here's everything you need to know to build Ant:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/~checkout~/jakarta-ant/build.xml
I guess there is no need to build a
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