Listing your e-mail address

2001-02-02 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hello, Daniel Savarese suggested that e-mail addresses on the "Who we are" page should not be listed directly as a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]/a but as "foo at bar.com". This is will make it harder for spam robots to collect our e-mail addresses. For an example of how

Re: Listing your e-mail address

2001-02-02 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 20:47 02.02.2001 +1100, you wrote: At 09:22 2/2/01 +0100, Ceki Glc wrote: Hello, Daniel Savarese suggested that e-mail addresses on the "Who we are" page should not be listed directly as a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]/a but as "foo at bar.com". good idea. Oh and just

RE: What is Jakarta?

2001-02-06 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 16:01 06.02.2001 -0500, you wrote: On 2/6/2001 at 9:13 PM Ceki Glc wrote: What would be gained by refining the charter of Jakarta and pruning projects? Roy Fielding has indicated that some action is necessary. His two suggestions were to either ask the board to create additional PMCs, or to

Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal

2001-02-11 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 06:56 11.02.2001 -0500, you wrote: From the junit.org website: JUnit is a regression testing framework written by Erich Gamma and Kent Beck. It is used by the developer who implements unit tests in Java. I don't want to get into a discussion of whether JUnit is good or bad that will

Re: Is open source unamerican...

2001-02-21 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Pier, I am not sure that Allaire is entirely insane. He says: Open source is an intellectual-property destroyer ... I can't imagine something that could be worse than this for the software business and the intellectual-property business. It takes a huge amount of effort to build

Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal

2001-02-22 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 17:14 22.02.2001 -0800, Jon Stevens wrote: on 2/22/01 2:58 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is worth while to make the argument that as long as it is *either* GPL or APL the license can still be under Apache. Why??? You can still use the APL as much as you

Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal

2001-02-22 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Peter, Thanks for your reply. My question was really about the logical meaning of dual licensing. For example, assume that the GPL has requirements G1, G2, Gn and the APL has requirements A1, A2, ..., Am, does dual licensing mean: 1) All of G1, G2, .., Gn, A1, A2, ..., Am must be satisfied.

Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal

2001-02-23 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 20:07 23.02.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote: At 09:54 23/2/01 +0100, Ceki Glc wrote: Sure. A license to be worth the electrons it's written on must be enforceable. Who is going to do the enforcing? In the GPL/APL case there are two bodies involved, the FSF and the ASF. Say product X is dual

Re: PMC meeting agenda

2001-03-11 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 11:44 09.03.2001 -0800, Hans Bergsten wrote: Sam Ruby wrote: Below is the proposed agenda. Let me know if anybody would like to propose any additions or changes. We also need to discuss a venue. PMC members now span three continents, so monthly face to face meetings are a wee bit

Re: PMC meeting agenda

2001-03-11 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 13:07 08.03.2001 -0500, Sam Ruby wrote: Below is the proposed agenda. Let me know if anybody would like to propose any additions or changes. We also need to discuss a venue. PMC members now span three continents, so monthly face to face meetings are a wee bit impractical. I can arrange a

Re: status?

2001-03-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 17:14 12.03.2001 -0500, Ted Husted wrote: Jon Stevens wrote: what is the status of integrating ted's changes into the main website? If we're talking about http://jakarta.apache.org/site/proposal.html This is one hell of a document. I have one comment regarding the four voting colors

Re: status?

2001-03-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hi Pete, Voting is a serious matter. The results of a vote should be crystal clear as ultimately it is the vote that allow us to make clear cut choices. The results of a vote should not be tainted with uncertainty. There is a difference between believing/supporting an idea and actively

Re: JCP Survey

2001-03-13 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 05:37 14.03.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote: Hi, For those of you interested in future of java I would reccomend that you visit a survey at http://208.29.156.209/surveys_0/sun200/welcome.htm Have you noticed the asp suffix at the end of the survey page URLs? Ceki

Re: encoding problems with Jakarta-site

2001-03-15 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 22:12 14.03.2001 -0800, Jon Stevens wrote: Ok, I think this encoding stuff with Ceki's name is a bug in the OSX JVM that I'm using, so we may have to revert back to using "u" for a bit until the OSX GM is out and I can test/use that. :-( The weird thing is that I'm not convinced that it is

Re: encoding problems with Jakarta-site

2001-03-15 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Sorry, my previous note was incomplete. I've been bitten by Eudora's CTRL-E syndorome. At 22:12 14.03.2001 -0800, Jon Stevens wrote: java Test input.txt produces: ?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"? p bCeki Glc/b (ceki at apache.org) br / Ceki is the founder of the log4j project. Time

Re: Directory layout feedback

2001-03-15 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Conor, At 11:02 15.03.2001 +1100, Conor MacNeill wrote: Ceki, I would like to give you some feedback on the common directory layout http://jakarta.apache.org/site/dirlayout.html This is mostly from my Ant perspective and somewhat from my impression of some other common practices in the

Re: Directory layout feedback

2001-03-15 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 01:34 16.03.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote: build directory Many of the Jakarta projects put the build files in the project's root directory and use the build directory for build results, such as build classes which will be jarred up into the distribution So by build/ you

Re: Directory layout feedback

2001-03-15 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 02:46 16.03.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote: At 04:17 15/3/01 +0100, Ceki Glc wrote: A lot of projects use dist/, in my personal projects I use out/ while some projects use bin/. See, these names are like colors, blue, green, or yellow... At face value, they are all equivalent. That's what I

Re: [PROPOSAL] J2EEUnit donation to ASF

2001-03-27 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hi Jon, A name change is a significant event in the life of a project. Could we formally ask Sun if they see a problem with J2EEUnit keeping its name? The address is: Sun Trademarks Brands Department Sun Microsystems, Inc. 901 San Antonio Road, MS-PAL01-521 Palo Alto, CA 94303 Fax:

Re: Next PMC meeting times?

2001-04-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 11:42 12.04.2001 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote: At the last PMC meeting we scheduled the next PMC meeting for Monday, 16 April 2001 at 1900 GMT. Now that daylight savings time has swapped hemispheres, it might make sense to revisit this. The two somewhat workable times are 1200 GMT and 2000 GMT.

Binaries in CVS

2001-04-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hello, I suppose this horse was thoroughly beaten to death but I still would like to hear about the pros and cons of including binary files in CVS. The advantages are: - By including required jar files for an application, the installation becomes easier as the user does not need to fetch

Re: Binaries in CVS

2001-04-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hi Craig, At 11:25 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: Whether or not there is a nice, easy, "all in one" download with everything you need has absolutely nothing to do with whether binaries are checked into CVS. True. There is an important distinction indeed. Call it conventional

Re: Binaries in CVS

2001-04-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 12:55 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: [removed text] Why do you think that it is wrong to have binaries in CVS? All the disadvantages you listed. All the disadvantages Sam listed. Sam objects to early binding. In other words to packages assuming a certain version of a

Re: Binaries in CVS

2001-04-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 15:04 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Ceki [iso-8859-1] Glc wrote: At 12:55 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: [removed text] Why do you think that it is wrong to have binaries in CVS? All the disadvantages you listed. All the

Re: Binaries in CVS

2001-04-13 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 18:44 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Peter Donald wrote: At 08:16 12/4/01 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote: If you accept that you are in a world where interfaces that you are depending on change frequently, then the problem to solve is optimizing the

log4j version 1.1beta2 released

2001-04-18 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Greetings, After a three month wait, I am pleased to announce log4j version 1.1b2, a release candidate that should be soon sanctioned as 1.1 final release. Version 1.1beta2 is 100% backward compatible with log4j version 1.0.x, even if 1.1beta1 was not. Thus it should be considered as a

PMC meeting minutes

2001-04-26 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hello, Are the last PMC meeting minutes available? Ceki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Javaworld Awards

2001-05-05 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Greetings, Here are some pretty good news: http://www.javaworld.com/jw-05-2001/jw-0504-finalists.html Regards, Ceki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
regards, Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 15:03 07.05.2001 +0100, you wrote: +1 also Here are some comments I have after reading the dirlayout.html file (for the first time, I have to admit. Actually I don't know where it is linked to on the jakarta web site !) ... I don't want to start a lengthy discussion (as it is very difficult

Re: Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 15:03 07.05.2001 +0100, you wrote: +1 also Here are some comments I have after reading the dirlayout.html file (for the first time, I have to admit. Actually I don't know where it is linked to on the jakarta web site !) ... Almost forgot. dirlayout is not linked from anywhere because it is

Re: Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 10:02 07.05.2001 -0700, you wrote: On Mon, 7 May 2001, Ceki [iso-8859-1] Gülcü wrote: I have asked this before but is there a need for an intermediary directory? For example, to take an example I am familiar with, Tomcat 4.x, a damn good project I might add, has a build/ directory and a

Re: Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-08 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 08:36 08.05.2001 +1000, you wrote: At 06:09 7/5/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote: Unfortunately half projects use build for (1) and half use it for (2). My recomendation would be to invent a new name for (1) that conflicts with no existing project - perhaps intermediate. For (2) I recomend tools

Re: Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-08 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 18:36 08.05.2001 +1000, you wrote: At 08:31 8/5/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote: At 08:36 08.05.2001 +1000, you wrote: At 06:09 7/5/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote: Unfortunately half projects use build for (1) and half use it for (2). My recomendation would be to invent a new name for (1

Re: Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-08 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 15:22 08.05.2001 +0100, you wrote: Peter Donald wrote: The other group was 1. name of directory of generated local docs if any 2. name of directory of generated www docs if any 3. Whether local docs == www docs Some projects don't have any generated docs in CVS. Others only have one

Re: Proposed dirlayout document

2001-05-08 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hi Craig, Ceki, could you expand on why you're objecting to the multistage build process? I'm with Peter on this one ... multi-stage builds save time for the developers (because they do the minimum amount of work required), and also make the dist target work better: - They reuse what's already

Re: [proposal] Jakarta Deprecation Policy

2001-05-16 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 07:54 16.05.2001 -0400, you wrote: Jon Stevens wrote: Well, there haven't been many flame wars around here recently, so let me start one. I seem to be good at that. :-) What I propose is that we take this document (or one similar to it) and migrate it up to the overall Jakarta Project

Theft of authorship

2001-06-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hello, This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through the roof. Good willing contributors, take a piece of existing log4j code, modify or enhance it, but remove the previous author's names. They then post their code as if it was their own. Regardless of how much they

Re: Theft of authorship

2001-06-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
it is a question of culture/custom. I do not think we have a document outlining authorship rules. Does anyone know one? Regards, Ceki At 11:51 07.06.2001 -0700, you wrote: on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through

Re: Theft of authorship

2001-06-08 Thread Ceki Gülcü
. Regards, Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Theft of authorship

2001-06-08 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 01:24 08.06.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: I think this is really a significant question. How significant a patch does it take for someone to legitimately be considered an additional author of a particular source file? Attribution in a CVS commit should always be there -- but is

Re: JSR47 Critique

2001-06-13 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 10:58 13.06.2001 +1000, Peter Donald wrote: At 01:37 AM 6/13/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote: Greetings, Here is a written critique of JSR47, the logging API shipped with JDK 1.4: http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html If you agree with its contents, then you are encouraged

Reponse to my appeal

2001-06-14 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Greetings, In just over 24 hours, over -- Ceki Gülcü - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fwd: JSR47 vs. log4j

2001-06-13 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Greetings, Since yesterday evening a non-negligible number of requests were directed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I find Ellis Teer's comments (included below) quite interesting. My critique of the JSR47 API can be found at: http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html If you agree with

JSR47 Critique

2001-06-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
API shipped with JDK 1.4. Please cc: me if and when you choose do so. Thank you in advance. -- Ceki Gülcü - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: JSR47 Critique

2001-06-12 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hi Pier, JSR47 is still in the public-review stage. Doesn't that mean that officially alterations are still possible? Cheers, Ceki At 00:43 13.06.2001 +0100, Pier P. Fumagalli wrote: Ceki Gülcü at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Here is a written critique of JSR47, the logging API

Response to appeal

2001-06-14 Thread Ceki Gülcü
but I am sure we can do better. It is becoming increasingly evident that no one will be happy about the upcoming logging API from Sun. I invite you to join our community in protest against the pollution of the Java environment with dubious APIs. Thank you in advance, Ceki Gülcü

Re: Proposal to make BSF an ASF project

2001-06-25 Thread Ceki Gülcü
- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e

Licensing question

2001-07-03 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hello, We have a developer who would like to contribute a piece of code under the Apache software license but at the same time would like to keep using the same piece of code under a different (the original) license. I am sure this not the first time this happens. How did the foundation deal

Re: Reply-to munging

2001-07-10 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 21:11 10.07.2001 +0200, Gunnar Rønning wrote: * Alex Chaffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Can we turn off the munging of headers that is currently adding | Reply-to on all the jakarta lists? I agree with this, but this case has been up before with some people having very strong feelings about

Re: Loggers, loggers, all over the place

2001-08-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
now. I also know I'm in ennemy territory here. Cedric - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch

Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java

2001-08-13 Thread Ceki Gülcü
they are. Regards, Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [VOTE] Making Commons-Cactus a top level projet

2001-09-18 Thread Ceki Gülcü
commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Apache logs problem

2001-10-01 Thread Ceki Gülcü
-Vincent - Original Message - From: Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 1:11 PM Subject: Re: Apache logs problem Hello Vincent, Assuming you are using webalizer, have you tried using the -f (fold sequence errors) and the -p (preserve state

Re: [PROPOSAL] New Project Creation Guidelines

2001-10-18 Thread Ceki Gülcü
/newproject.html I will accept any patches against this document and/or direct commits from PMC members. :-) -jon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http

Re: ASPizer

2001-10-18 Thread Ceki Gülcü
. I didn't know that. How incredibly smart of you. Think about the synergies between Tomcat and Jboss!!! Wow! Incredible. and you think Jon is politically incorrect! Have you been on the JBoss lists? -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch Link of the day: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles

Re: ASPizer

2001-10-17 Thread Ceki Gülcü
, tough. Just read the lists! The only one being rude in this forum is you. Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch Link of the day: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40473-2001Oct10.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail

Re: ASPizer

2001-10-17 Thread Ceki Gülcü
to? Disagreement != insult. -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch Link of the day: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40473-2001Oct10.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
on the same issue time and again, a wait period of 12 months is necessary between two referenda on the same or nearly the same issue. 3) Keeps things as they are and hope for the best. Regards, Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: More abuse of coding styles...

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
; } is public void setSomethingComplicated(Object sometingComplicateed){ this.somethingComplicated = somethingComplicated; } -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: More abuse of coding styles...

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 06:57 04.01.2002 -0500, you wrote: On 1/4/02 6:43 AM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 06:03:43 -0800, Sam Ruby wrote: If some particular codebase under the Jakarta umbrella consistently chose to take actions which were inconsistent with the Apache mission

Re: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
will not instigate revolution! I will not instigate revolution! Regards, Bart. -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
, drink cocktails and fornicate day in day out. -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
yadda. So I +1 on suggesting standards for external parts of project, -1 for forcing it Indeed, that seems to be the consensus. -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
. :-( Anyway, it looks like e-mail that I send now gets through so let me take advantage of it while I can... Ceki Gülcü wrote: If some particular codebase under the Jakarta umbrella consistently chose to take actions which were inconsistent with the Apache mission, then I'm confident that the PMC would

Re: Jakarta Status [was Code conventions]

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
? SourceForgeII? How about all the C++ projects in XML land? When do you think ApacheGrabBag/SourceForgeII and the httpd projects could be merged? Seriously, I think the idea is worth our consideration. Regards, Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: More abuse of coding styles...

2002-01-04 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 10:35 04.01.2002 -0800, you wrote: on 1/4/02 3:28 AM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All Java Language source code in the repository must be written in conformance to the Code Conventions for the Java Programming Language as published by Sun. However, some projects may decide

Re: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache]

2002-01-05 Thread Ceki Gülcü
someone voting -1 means end of discussion. I dare anyone to -1 that. Regards, Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache]

2002-01-05 Thread Ceki Gülcü
opinion about it, which package with which existing project. Ciao Chris - agitateur depuis toujours *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto

Re: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache]

2002-01-05 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 18:02 05.01.2002 -0500, you wrote: Ceki Gülcü wrote: IMHO, XML does not and will never have a community as long as two of its most important projects directly compete with each other. The success of one is related with the failure of the other. XML Community? Won't happen in a million

Re: Cultural homogeneity

2002-01-06 Thread Ceki Gülcü
a different wording? -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Cultural homogeneity

2002-01-06 Thread Ceki Gülcü
include software that runs on the client but excludes software that runs *only* on client. So, the word server-side might require some further clarification, but removing it completely is not just a cosmetic change. It means opening the flood-gates. -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch

Re: Questions

2002-01-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
to step up and take over the PMC chairmanship? p.s. I have no interest in being PMC Chair. -jon -- Standard rules apply: Ask any questions, and you get the job. ;-) (I left this .sig in on purpose, because this quote is from Sam and I think it is funny based on the question.) -- Ceki Gülcü

Re: crushed

2002-01-07 Thread Ceki Gülcü
other place I know is my family. -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Volunteer Wanted

2002-01-08 Thread Ceki Gülcü
] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch

Re: License change for new year ?

2002-01-09 Thread Ceki Gülcü
PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting You're going to end up getting pissed at your software anyway, so you might as well not pay for it. Try Open Source. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch

Re: License change for new year ?

2002-01-09 Thread Ceki Gülcü
737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL

Re: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta PMC bylaws change

2002-01-16 Thread Ceki Gülcü
would be initiated. - Sam Ruby -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [PROPOSAL] POI @ Jakarta

2002-01-17 Thread Ceki Gülcü
on the topic. -- Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

2002-02-02 Thread Ceki Gülcü
and will eventually put Bugzilla out of business. More info: http://scarab.tigris.org/ thanks, -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ceki Gülcü -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e

version numbers in jars

2002-02-21 Thread Ceki Gülcü
The following is from http://www.ibiblio.org/java/#recent I have a request to make of the log4j team, as well as all the other Java programmers at the Apache Project, IBM alphaWorks, Sun, and everyone else who distributes JAR archives. Could you please attach a version number to all your JARs?

Re: cvs commit: jakarta-site/xdocs index.xml

2002-03-03 Thread Ceki Gülcü
-1 I disagree with this change because it gives the impression that LogKit is a top level jakarta project which is not the case. The addition is placed just to log4j giving the impression that the two packages have equal footing. This misleads the users to think there are two logging packages

Re: [VOTE] ASL vs. GPL page: is this okay?

2002-03-06 Thread Ceki Gülcü
be overstated. -- Ceki Gülcü -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [VOTE] ASL vs. GPL page: is this okay?

2002-03-06 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 16:17 06.03.2002 -0600, you wrote: -1 I'm not sure we need this at all. I disagree. I think we definitely need a solid document countering the idyllic but false world depicted by the FSF. It's just a gargantuan task to come up with a such a document. Regards, Ceki -- To unsubscribe,

Re: Now what? (was: Jakarta Overview)

2002-03-23 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 14:47 22.03.2002 -0800, you wrote: - Audience and Marketing: The document is directed towards people who may not be familiar with all the projects that exist under the Jakarta umbrella. Specifically, it is directed towards users, who hope to find something useful for their own projects.

Re: Why Sun won't certify JBoss (was Re: Jakarta is not an open source project in the pure community sense anymore)

2002-03-23 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 09:50 23.03.2002 -0500, you wrote: On 3/22/02 12:19 PM, James Strachan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A thought struck me today which is probably totally obvious to folk but I thought I'd share it anyways. Sun gets pots of cash from companies who develop J2EE compliant software from the J2EE

Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-26 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Hello all, Given that log4j is such a low-level library, most organizations are suspicious to tie their code to log4j, especially considering the new logging API in JDK 1.4. Before going forward, it is appropriate to mention that these two APIs are very similar. The classical usage pattern

RE: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-27 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 11:49 27.03.2002 -0600, Rodney Waldhoff wrote: But this isn't really the reason commons-logging was created. Note that most of the commons components are just that--tiny libraries meant to be integrated/incorporated into larger frameworks and larger applications. Some of these components

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-27 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 15:18 27.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote: Here's the problem, as I see it. Suppose Commons component A decides to adopt Log4J, Commons component B decides to adopt LogKit, and Commons component C adopts JDK1.4 logging. They will all minimally function with the right jars in the

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-27 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Costin, Morgan, Rodney, Thanks for the lively discussion and sharing your points of view. My intent was to warn users of the dangers of using common-logging. I have done my bit. Cheers, Ceki At 16:31 27.03.2002 -0600, Morgan wrote: I believe the order of precedence is well documented. I think

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-28 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 15:10 28.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote: Where is this world where everyone uses Log4J? That world = (world - jakarta) -- Ceki My link of the month: http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/standardization/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands,

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-28 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 15:30 28.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote: I am pro-Log4J. I wish I lived in that Log4J-only world (until/unless something better came along). Generally, commons-logging neither encourages nor discourages use of Log4J. However, I would argue that it _does_ encourage Log4J a bit by

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-28 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 16:33 28.03.2002 -0600, you wrote: Sun's me-too strategy is bound to fail. The question is whether the bigger jakarta community is going to help us defeat JSR47 or stand in the way. That's a bit harsh, isn't it? Hmm, maybe it is. What I am trying to say is that I would have liked to

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-28 Thread Ceki Gülcü
won't matter. At 15:17 28.03.2002 -0800, you wrote: On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Ceki Gülcü wrote: True. It does encourage it, but only initially. On the long run, however, people will run into problems with their logging (as is happening now). They will say this commons-logging+log4j stuff is too

RE: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-28 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 00:57 29.03.2002 +0100, Paulo Gaspar wrote: Ceki, What about making clear that commons-logging is only supposed to be used by other components so that the application developer picks the logging API that suits him best? That seems to be the intent of commons-logging. I have pointed out the

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-29 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Wait a minute, I know you... You are the apricot (http://sourceforge.net/projects/apricot/) guy. In the fairy tale The Emperor's new clothes, what was the name of the child who calls He's naked. The man in the crown is naked Was it Vladimir Bossicard? At 18:28 28.03.2002 -0800, you

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-29 Thread Ceki Gülcü
anything. It would be a nice experiment. At 12:46 29.03.2002 +1100, you wrote: On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:38, Ceki Gülcü wrote: 1) logging calls are made thousands of times so the indirection through an equalizer API (like commons-logging) has a performance impact Not in modern JVMs (read most almost

Re: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-29 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Good point, except that the loop length was 100'000'000 so the cost of the first 10'000 calls would be dwarfed by the remaining 99'990'000. Of course there is also: ~/java Indirect 1 log4j: Parsing threshold string [WARN] log4j: Could not find root logger information. Is this OK? log4j:

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