Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-07 Thread Matt Liotta

Charles Wu wrote:


Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 cents per
minute?

 


.2 cents; 2 cents a minute wouldn't be a very good deal.

-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-07 Thread Brian Whigham
care to share who you're using for termination or how much volume you're 
purchasing?


Matt Liotta wrote:


Charles Wu wrote:

Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 
cents per

minute?

 


.2 cents; 2 cents a minute wouldn't be a very good deal.

-Matt


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-07 Thread Matt Liotta

I can't share that information.

-Matt

Brian Whigham wrote:

care to share who you're using for termination or how much volume 
you're purchasing?


Matt Liotta wrote:


Charles Wu wrote:

Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 
cents per

minute?

 


.2 cents; 2 cents a minute wouldn't be a very good deal.

-Matt



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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance - 911

2006-03-06 Thread Peter R.

Nuvio and CommPartners rely on Intrada for 911, just like Vonage.
As the Vonage IPO so clearly pointed out, 911 coverage is spotty at best.
Residential 911 is harder due to the nomadic possibilities.
CallVantage has taken measures to cover their butts and Lingo is working 
on it.
But Intrado is in the mist of being purchased, so 911 will be murky for 
the foreseeable future.


Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.

John Scrivner wrote:

The Nuvio guy told me they did not have 911 when I talked to them. 
When did this change?

Scriv


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Peter R.

You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to 
make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 
Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 
I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while

the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell
phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 
It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 
. . . j o n a t h a n


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread John Scrivner
Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 
Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 
I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
cell

phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 
It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 
. . . j o n a t h a n




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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Dustin Jurman
Delta3 - is the EBITA?

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.
Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:

 You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
 Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

 Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
 to make a profit.

 Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
 in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.

 Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

 Regards,

 Peter


 Jonathan Schmidt wrote:

 I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
 unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
 and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
 files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
  
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
  
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
 while
 the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
 cell
 phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
 free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
 additional cost is kinda cool.
  
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
 Vonaga, but
 haven't seen it yet.
  
 . . . j o n a t h a n


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta
Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up 
for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using 
the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is 
no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own 
equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP 
will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do 
make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share 
more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in 
knowing anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in 
revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 
Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 
I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like 
a cell

phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 
It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 
. . . j o n a t h a n






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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta
Quite simply, VoIP will be free in the long run. Use it to sell 
bandwidth or what have you, but don't plan on profiting from it directly 
outside of specific niches such as call centers. We have provisioned 
hundreds of phone numbers and sold hundreds of phone lines, but our 
actual monthly cost for providing the service outside of equipment, 
bandwidth, and other overhead is around $200 per month. With that kind 
of expense we could give away service as a loss leader and not even 
notice it. Do you think we are alone?


We own the network, so VoIP is easy and cheap to provide our customers. 
This is not the case for the Vonages of the world.


-Matt

Jason Hensley wrote:

For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP 
business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser?  I 
have just started my research into what it will take to provide this 
so I'm a little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all 
opinions and options.


Thanks!



- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them 
up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are 
using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. 
There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate 
your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP 
at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into 
the VoIP business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do 
make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you 
share more about your information about Primus? I have a big 
interest in knowing anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out 
how to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in 
revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me 
compressed WAV

files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop 
Ethernet while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of 
like a cell
phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having 
unlimited

free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 . . . j o n a t h a n







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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Tom DeReggi

John,

Primus has two seperate Voice products.
Their Business (primus) service is the answer for WISPs/ISPs, that jsut want 
to sell an analog replacement line to a business to sue their existin PBX.
Primus actually embrases this unlike just about every other VOIP wholesaler 
on the planet.
The big margin profit isn't there when partnering with Primus, but its great 
for the smaller guy, that doesn't want to do much.
The WISP gets the Lead, lets Primus do the heavy lifting, and the WISP gets 
a reasonable commission. Not as much as if they rebranded it, but enough 
since they don't have to do much.
Its a good partner when the WISP wants to concentrate  on its core 
competency, and let the VOIP guy do his thing, but get a peice of the 
action, and offer their customers a full suite of servcies.
So whether Primus is the right provider depends on the commitment that a 
WISP wants to make.


From what I heard Lingo was going to be offered to resellers in the near 
future, to Primus resellers. I actually signed up with Primus for my 
business offerings, but I have not been very active with them much yet, as I 
needed a residential VOIP service. I'm watching closely to what they do with 
Lingo.


The reason is Lingo is priced to be competitive with all the other Direct 
residential providers. Thats not necessarilly the WISP's goal.  I want to 
charge more because I can. I can guarantee performance (QOS) of my branded 
service, depending on the view of network neutrality.  Customers want one 
bill.  And I want bigger margins, meaning, standard percentage commission 
when sold at Lingo retial, but when sold at higher price I want that margin, 
as its my network relationship that allows it, and I that need to spend 
money to upgrade my network to handle delivering top performance.  The idea 
is to only sell the VOIP service that you can guarantee the best performance 
in. And the network provider needs a bigger peice for that. But a larger end 
user price can be charged as well.


I have not made a decission on wether Lingo will or will not be a good 
option for WISPs and myself.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to 
make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 
4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
cell

phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 . . . j o n a t h a n




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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Tom DeReggi

Did they happen to list executive's salaries?
A company doesn't have to be profitable for the officers to be profitable.
Good tax planning does not necessarilly, reflect the real health of the 
company.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Dustin Jurman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance



Delta3 - is the EBITA?

DSJ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing
anything I can about them right now.
Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how
to make a profit.

Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue
in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.

Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).

Now, that's retail w/box and support.

I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a
cell
phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.

It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like
Vonaga, but
haven't seen it yet.

. . . j o n a t h a n




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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Jason Hensley
What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players 
don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them coming here?  For 
instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 
miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally.  Not a 
feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be 
long distance for local residents.  Is there a case for or against 
partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible 
than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with 
them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas?  I'm 
getting more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they 
do not have a home phone line other than their cell phone.  Do you see that 
as what we're headed to?  I do and I don't personally.  I think there will 
be a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least the 
foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will not be 
doing away with wireline.  Too many challenges for both cellular providers, 
and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of population.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be profitable, at 
least on some level.





- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Quite simply, VoIP will be free in the long run. Use it to sell bandwidth 
or what have you, but don't plan on profiting from it directly outside of 
specific niches such as call centers. We have provisioned hundreds of 
phone numbers and sold hundreds of phone lines, but our actual monthly 
cost for providing the service outside of equipment, bandwidth, and other 
overhead is around $200 per month. With that kind of expense we could give 
away service as a loss leader and not even notice it. Do you think we are 
alone?


We own the network, so VoIP is easy and cheap to provide our customers. 
This is not the case for the Vonages of the world.


-Matt

Jason Hensley wrote:

For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP 
business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser?  I have 
just started my research into what it will take to provide this so I'm a 
little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all opinions and 
options.


Thanks!



- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up 
for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using 
the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is 
no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own 
equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP 
will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP 
business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed 
WAV

files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
cell
phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having 
unlimited

free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 . . . j o n a t h a n







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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Peter R.

Primus is a big International LD company. That is how it began in 1994.
Check out the Primus Wireless plan. Cellular and VOIP are based in 
International exchanges.


Primus has short term debt of $26M; long term is $635M.
About to be de-listed from Nasdaq.
Net loss for the fourth quarter 2005 was ($25) million (including a $13 
million net loss from foreign currency transactions, a $4 million gain 
on early extinguishment of debt and $1 million in severance expense).


Revenue growth was in wireless (MVNO), Covad re-sale, and International 
markets.


Retail VOIP services grew modestly in the quarter to approximately 
104,000 customers. This growth level reflects the fact that the Company 
continued to moderate its investment in LINGO in part due to the 
disruption in marketing activities raised by E911 regulations. Revenue 
from retail VOIP customers reached $8 million during the fourth quarter.



John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do 
make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share 
more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in 
knowing anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in 
revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter




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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread danlist
so should primus be avoided?

Dan Metcalf
Wireless Broadband Systems
www.wbisp.com
781-566-2053 ext 6201
1-888-wbsystem (888) 927-9783
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 Of Peter R.
 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:05 PM
 To: John Scrivner
 Cc: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
 
 Primus is a big International LD company. That is how it began in 1994.
 Check out the Primus Wireless plan. Cellular and VOIP are based in
 International exchanges.
 
 Primus has short term debt of $26M; long term is $635M.
 About to be de-listed from Nasdaq.
 Net loss for the fourth quarter 2005 was ($25) million (including a $13
 million net loss from foreign currency transactions, a $4 million gain
 on early extinguishment of debt and $1 million in severance expense).
 
 Revenue growth was in wireless (MVNO), Covad re-sale, and International
 markets.
 
 Retail VOIP services grew modestly in the quarter to approximately
 104,000 customers. This growth level reflects the fact that the Company
 continued to moderate its investment in LINGO in part due to the
 disruption in marketing activities raised by E911 regulations. Revenue
 from retail VOIP customers reached $8 million during the fourth quarter.
 
 
 John Scrivner wrote:
 
  Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do
  make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share
  more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in
  knowing anything I can about them right now.
  Thanks,
  Scriv
 
 
  Peter R. wrote:
 
  You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
  Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.
 
  Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how
  to make a profit.
 
  Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in
  revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.
 
  Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.
 
  Regards,
 
  Peter
 
 
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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Brian Webster
I might be inclined to say it may be a loser in the future. I just read an 
article in a Telco trade magazine that announced a software package that can 
sniff SIP packets and give real time information for billing based on an IBM 
server. In that same article they talked about how they could limit or stop any 
SIP traffic from any provider if they wanted, but the thing that caught my eye 
was how they mentioned they could tell things like termination points and 
delivery charges. This is just like the current Telco model. If they start 
pushing VOIP to a typical Telco model (and they should from their point of view 
to level the playing field and raise the cost of doing VOIP) then the 
regulatory and call delivery costs will go up and the cost benefit starts to go 
down. It is an interesting point of view and worth keeping an eye on. The way 
they were able to shove the 911 thing down the VOIP operators throats in such 
short order makes me wonder if they won't do the same thing with termination 
charges based on IP and packets like they do with copper now.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com 



-Original Message-
From: Jason Hensley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP 
business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser?  I have 
just started my research into what it will take to provide this so I'm a 
little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all opinions and 
options.

Thanks!



- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


 Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up 
 for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using 
 the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no 
 money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. 
 Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be 
 a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business.

 BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
 domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.

 -Matt

 John Scrivner wrote:

 Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
 money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
 about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
 anything I can about them right now.
 Thanks,
 Scriv


 Peter R. wrote:

 You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
 Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

 Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to 
 make a profit.

 Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
 in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.

 Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

 Regards,

 Peter


 Jonathan Schmidt wrote:

 I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
 unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
 and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
 files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
  Now, that's retail w/box and support.
  I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
 while
 the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
 cell
 phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
 free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
 additional cost is kinda cool.
  It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
 Vonaga, but
 haven't seen it yet.
  . . . j o n a t h a n




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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread KyWiFi LLC
Hi Scriv,

We tried Lingo but could not get it to work reliably and
their voice quality was horrible when it did work. Their
support is overseas so expect to be treated like a number
instead of a person. LNP's are hard to get approved and
people calling our ported number often got a busy signal
when we were not on the phone. Even if we were on the
phone, they should not have received a busy signal because
we their service is suppose to include call waiting. During
the first week or two after our number was ported, some
callers received a This number has been disconnected
message when they called us. My advice is to turn and run.


Sincerely,
Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
http://www.KyWiFi.com
http://www.KyWiFiVoice.com
Phone: 859.274.4033
A Broadband Phone  Internet Provider

==
Wireless Broadband, Local Calling and
UNLIMITED Long Distance only $69!

No Taxes, No Regulatory Fees, No Hassles

FREE Site Survey: http://www.KyWiFi.com
==


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.
Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:

 You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
 Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

 Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
 to make a profit.

 Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
 in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.

 Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

 Regards,

 Peter


 Jonathan Schmidt wrote:

 I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
 unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
 and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
 files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
  
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
  
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
 while
 the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
 cell
 phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
 free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
 additional cost is kinda cool.
  
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
 Vonaga, but
 haven't seen it yet.
  
 . . . j o n a t h a n


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta
My understanding is that many rural markets can be accessed using tandem 
PRIs. For example, using tandems in GA I can get access numbers for the 
entire state with only 10 actual circuits. Though, each circuit can only 
handle 23 incoming calls at once, so to support a large user base it 
would require many more circuits. But, just get started providing 
service to the entire state all I need is 10 circuits. Therefore, it 
will only be a matter of time before even rural areas have access 
numbers from VoIP providers.


In the mean time, by all means get a PRI from a local CLEC and start 
selling VoIP. If you get good enough at it, you can even start selling 
routes to other VoIP providers; that is our plan for rural GA.


-Matt

Jason Hensley wrote:

What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP 
players don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them 
coming here?  For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP 
provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that 
cannot call it locally.  Not a feasible decision for a local business 
as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents.  
Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who 
has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them 
drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local 
VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas?  I'm getting more and more 
people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they do not have a 
home phone line other than their cell phone.  Do you see that as what 
we're headed to?  I do and I don't personally.  I think there will be 
a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least 
the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will 
not be doing away with wireline.  Too many challenges for both 
cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of 
population.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be 
profitable, at least on some level.





- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Quite simply, VoIP will be free in the long run. Use it to sell 
bandwidth or what have you, but don't plan on profiting from it 
directly outside of specific niches such as call centers. We have 
provisioned hundreds of phone numbers and sold hundreds of phone 
lines, but our actual monthly cost for providing the service outside 
of equipment, bandwidth, and other overhead is around $200 per month. 
With that kind of expense we could give away service as a loss leader 
and not even notice it. Do you think we are alone?


We own the network, so VoIP is easy and cheap to provide our 
customers. This is not the case for the Vonages of the world.


-Matt

Jason Hensley wrote:

For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the 
VoIP business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term 
loser?  I have just started my research into what it will take to 
provide this so I'm a little behind on it, but I'm definately 
interested in all opinions and options.


Thanks!



- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign 
them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP 
providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 
2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term 
unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money 
to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan 
for it or do get into the VoIP business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do 
make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you 
share more about your information about Primus? I have a big 
interest in knowing anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out 
how to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in 
revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for 
$19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me 
compressed WAV

files of all incoming

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta
In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting 
our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is 
outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. 
Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not at 
all.


The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service 
that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be 
able to fix it.


-Matt

Tom DeReggi wrote:


MAtt,

I agree with you on most of your comments.
However, there is more to it.

Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about 
controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have 
the time to be a VOIP provider themselves.
Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going  in to the future.  
Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely 
never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and 
reap the rewards of bundling today.  Give the companies access to your 
clients that will be the lowest threat.


What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to 
your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP 
options?


So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on 
the service, build your own.  But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner 
models, they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to 
have an option to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their 
own.


What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry 
trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand 
them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses 
money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the 
quality the receive.  JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of 
something that is going to happen.  So my point is, pick the companies 
that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT 
succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them 
up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are 
using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. 
There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate 
your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP 
at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into 
the VoIP business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do 
make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you 
share more about your information about Primus? I have a big 
interest in knowing anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out 
how to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in 
revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me 
compressed WAV

files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop 
Ethernet while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of 
like a cell
phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having 
unlimited

free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 . . . j o n a t h a n







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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Peter R.
Issues such as LNP, E-911, 411, CALEA, yellow page listings, and taxes 
will take a bite out of any profit.

Even termination, origination and DIDs cost money.

Let's say you get a 2 way CLEC PRI for $615 + DIDs at $10 per 20.
And let's say the CLEC will do your LNP and 911.
$615 divided by 23 ports is $26.75 per line (not including taxes nad fees).
You can over-subscribe about 5:1 for Resi, so your port cost is $5.35 + 
$5 in fees say = $10.
LD Termination varies: switched is $0.03; Ded LD is $0.17 plus the T1 
line; VoIP LD Termination is $0.018 from Primus.

Average LD is 300 minutes = $5.40
That's $15 of cost without factoring in labor, admin, etc.
Someone like delta3 has plans for $15.99.

Plus now instead of bursty traffic you have steady streams, so please 
engineer your networks accordingly.

Next, you have the CPE and install costs.
Plus bad debt on International calls as well as on the local dial-tone.
In addition, Billing costs are about $1.50.

Mind you , this was just one quick case.

Regards,

Peter


Jason Hensley wrote:

For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP 
business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser?  I 
have just started my research into what it will take to provide this 
so I'm a little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all 
opinions and options.


Thanks!


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Jason Hensley
And I think along this same line, partnering with, and basing your business 
plan on, a company that may not be here in 2-3 years is risky at best. 
Gotta have a backup plan of some kind if you're doing this of course.  This 
is why I have worked hard at building my own facilities in all aspects of 
things that I possibly can.





- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting our 
network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is outsourced 
doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. Therefore, I 
believe that you should either get in all the way or not at all.


The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service 
that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able 
to fix it.


-Matt

Tom DeReggi wrote:


MAtt,

I agree with you on most of your comments.
However, there is more to it.

Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling 
who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a 
VOIP provider themselves.
Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going  in to the future. 
Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never 
be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the 
rewards of bundling today.  Give the companies access to your clients 
that will be the lowest threat.


What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your 
client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options?


So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the 
service, build your own.  But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, 
they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option 
to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own.


What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends 
that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and 
are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut 
know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. 
JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to 
happen.  So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help 
succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of 
them ARE going to succeed.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up 
for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using 
the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is 
no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own 
equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP 
will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP 
business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed 
WAV

files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
cell
phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having 
unlimited

free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
additional cost is kinda cool.
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
Vonaga, but

haven't seen it yet.
 . . . j o n a t h a n







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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Peter R.

Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice.
Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?)
But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for 
Dedicated LD).

E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available).

You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one).
But Voice is way different from Data.
One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed.
Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the 
growing monster?

You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP.

Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking 
for $220M


In 1Q05:
Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of 
Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up 
about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid 
to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public 
this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new 
customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should.


Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their 
growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron 
has a bundle of his own cash in the venture.


In  2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the 
first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday 
to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a 
Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 
2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended 
Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have 
grown rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily 
driven by our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of 
inception through Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 
million. Our net loss for the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was 
$189.6million. During the same nine-month period, our marketing expenses 
were $176.3million./




Jason Hensley wrote:

What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP 
players don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them 
coming here?  For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP 
provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that 
cannot call it locally.  Not a feasible decision for a local business 
as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents.  
Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who 
has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them 
drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local 
VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas?  I'm getting more and more 
people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they do not have a 
home phone line other than their cell phone.  Do you see that as what 
we're headed to?  I do and I don't personally.  I think there will be 
a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least 
the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will 
not be doing away with wireline.  Too many challenges for both 
cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of 
population.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be 
profitable, at least on some level.


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Mac Dearman

I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt!

 We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we speak. I 
think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own VoIP offerings 
we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc for PSTN access to 
limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble access from a fellow 
WISP...etc


I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have even 
given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some more beer and 
thoughts on that :-)



Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229





- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting our 
network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is outsourced 
doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. Therefore, I 
believe that you should either get in all the way or not at all.


The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service 
that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able 
to fix it.


-Matt

Tom DeReggi wrote:


MAtt,

I agree with you on most of your comments.
However, there is more to it.

Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling 
who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a 
VOIP provider themselves.
Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going  in to the future. 
Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never 
be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the 
rewards of bundling today.  Give the companies access to your clients 
that will be the lowest threat.


What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your 
client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options?


So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the 
service, build your own.  But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, 
they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option 
to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own.


What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends 
that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and 
are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut 
know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. 
JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to 
happen.  So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help 
succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of 
them ARE going to succeed.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up 
for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using 
the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is 
no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own 
equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP 
will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP 
business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed 
WAV

files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Jason Hensley
I, for one, appreciate all of the comments.  This is what I'm looking for - 
the good, bad, and ugly, to figure out whether I even want to dive into this 
market.




- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance



Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice.
Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?)
But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for 
Dedicated LD).

E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available).

You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one).
But Voice is way different from Data.
One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed.
Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the 
growing monster?

You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP.

Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking 
for $220M


In 1Q05:
Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of 
Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up 
about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid 
to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public 
this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new 
customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should.


Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their growth 
is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron has a 
bundle of his own cash in the venture.


In  2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the first 
major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday to raise 
up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a Tyco 
International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 2003, 
$79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended Sept. 
30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have grown 
rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily driven by 
our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of inception through 
Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for 
the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same 
nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./




Jason Hensley wrote:

What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players 
don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them coming here? 
For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 
100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. 
Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them 
will be long distance for local residents.  Is there a case for or 
against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY 
more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / 
whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks 
in these areas?  I'm getting more and more people who want wireless 
Internet SOLELY because they do not have a home phone line other than 
their cell phone.  Do you see that as what we're headed to?  I do and I 
don't personally.  I think there will be a market of some kind for that, 
but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years 
or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline.  Too 
many challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain 
and sparseness of population.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be profitable, 
at least on some level.


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta
E-911 is THE issue to solve for everyone. No matter who you get E-911 
from, the local ILEC is actually providing the service using outdated 
and expensive equipment. Until that changes things won't get better.


-Matt

Peter R. wrote:


Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice.
Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?)
But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for 
Dedicated LD).

E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available).

You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one).
But Voice is way different from Data.
One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed.
Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the 
growing monster?
You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling 
VOIP.


Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are 
looking for $220M


In 1Q05:
Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of 
Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up 
about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a 
bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go 
public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads 
attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should.


Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their 
growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey 
Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture.


In  2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the 
first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday 
to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named 
a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million 
in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months 
ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our 
revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced increasing net 
losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing expenses. From 
the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss 
was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine months ended Sept.30, 
2005, was $189.6million. During the same nine-month period, our 
marketing expenses were $176.3million./




Jason Hensley wrote:

What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP 
players don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them 
coming here?  For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP 
provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that 
cannot call it locally.  Not a feasible decision for a local business 
as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local 
residents.  Is there a case for or against partnering / working with 
a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, 
have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on 
getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas?  I'm getting 
more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they 
do not have a home phone line other than their cell phone.  Do you 
see that as what we're headed to?  I do and I don't personally.  I 
think there will be a market of some kind for that, but I feel as 
well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), 
markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline.  Too many 
challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and 
sparseness of population.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be 
profitable, at least on some level.





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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Peter R.

You might have just had a bad experience.
I beta tested the Primus Business VOIP product in 2004 and my only 
complaint was that after talking for 75 minutes on one call, it would 
die. And the Cisco ATA needed to be rebooted a lot.


Peter

KyWiFi LLC wrote:


Hi Scriv,

We tried Lingo but could not get it to work reliably and
their voice quality was horrible when it did work. Their
support is overseas so expect to be treated like a number
instead of a person. LNP's are hard to get approved and
people calling our ported number often got a busy signal
when we were not on the phone. Even if we were on the
phone, they should not have received a busy signal because
we their service is suppose to include call waiting. During
the first week or two after our number was ported, some
callers received a This number has been disconnected
message when they called us. My advice is to turn and run.


Sincerely,
Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
http://www.KyWiFi.com
http://www.KyWiFiVoice.com
Phone: 859.274.4033
A Broadband Phone  Internet Provider
 


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta
The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds 
great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect 
to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. We pay 
between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance.


-Matt

Mac Dearman wrote:


I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt!

 We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we 
speak. I think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own 
VoIP offerings we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc 
for PSTN access to limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble 
access from a fellow WISP...etc


I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have 
even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some 
more beer and thoughts on that :-)



Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229





- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting 
our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is 
outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. 
Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not 
at all.


The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party 
service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced 
not be able to fix it.


-Matt

Tom DeReggi wrote:


MAtt,

I agree with you on most of your comments.
However, there is more to it.

Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about 
controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have 
the time to be a VOIP provider themselves.
Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going  in to the 
future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will 
likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the 
money, and reap the rewards of bundling today.  Give the companies 
access to your clients that will be the lowest threat.


What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to 
your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP 
options?


So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money 
on the service, build your own.  But don't knock the 
Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable 
many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the 
resources to build their own.


What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry 
trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand 
them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses 
money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the 
quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of 
something that is going to happen.  So my point is, pick the 
companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to 
help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign 
them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP 
providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 
2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term 
unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money 
to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan 
for it or do get into the VoIP business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do 
make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you 
share more about your information about Primus? I have a big 
interest in knowing anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out 
how to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in 
revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Peter R.

You're a CLEC, right?


Matt Liotta wrote:

The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds 
great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect 
to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. We pay 
between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long 
distance.


-Matt


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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Paul Hendry
VoIP is an essential part of your offerings. We target business customers
and try to sell SDSL style services instead of ADSL style as it's just as
easy for us to deliver a symmetrical service then it is to deliver an
asymmetric service. The key to selling the symmetric service is by showing
the customer the applications available that would require upstream
bandwidth like supporting remote workers and of course VoIP. We don't make
profit from the VoIP directly but when you consider that SDSL is 4-6x more
expensive than ADSL you can make the profit up else where ;)

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: 06 March 2006 20:00
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds 
great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect 
to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. We pay 
between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance.

-Matt

Mac Dearman wrote:

 I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt!

  We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we 
 speak. I think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own 
 VoIP offerings we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc 
 for PSTN access to limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble 
 access from a fellow WISP...etc

 I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have 
 even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some 
 more beer and thoughts on that :-)


 Mac Dearman
 Maximum Access, LLC.
 Authorized Barracuda Reseller
 MikroTik RouterOS Certified
 www.inetsouth.com
 www.mac-tel.us
 www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
 Rayville, La.
 318.728.8600
 318.303.4228
 318.303.4229





 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


 In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting 
 our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is 
 outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. 
 Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not 
 at all.

 The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party 
 service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced 
 not be able to fix it.

 -Matt

 Tom DeReggi wrote:

 MAtt,

 I agree with you on most of your comments.
 However, there is more to it.

 Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about 
 controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have 
 the time to be a VOIP provider themselves.
 Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going  in to the 
 future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will 
 likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the 
 money, and reap the rewards of bundling today.  Give the companies 
 access to your clients that will be the lowest threat.

 What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to 
 your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP 
 options?

 So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money 
 on the service, build your own.  But don't knock the 
 Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable 
 many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the 
 resources to build their own.

 What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry 
 trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand 
 them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses 
 money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the 
 quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of 
 something that is going to happen.  So my point is, pick the 
 companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to 
 help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


 Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign 
 them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP 
 providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 
 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term 
 unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money 
 to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan 
 for it or do get into the VoIP business.

 BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
 domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.

 -Matt

 John Scrivner wrote

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta

Nope

-Matt

Peter R. wrote:


You're a CLEC, right?


Matt Liotta wrote:

The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds 
great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to 
connect to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. 
We pay between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic 
long distance.


-Matt





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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Tom DeReggi

Matt,

I have no doubt, that you are prepairing yourself well for the future 
regarding VOIP. Its decissions like the ones you made to do MPLS and 
Redundant paths (in your case wired MESH), that will empower you to more 
reliably offer your own VOIP services On-Net, like you are doing.


The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service 
that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able 
to fix it.


However, that statement I do not agree with. I belive you concentrate first 
on mastering your core fundamental service, in many cases for WISPs, its 
wireless. Until they got it perfect, wasting time on an additional service 
to also do partially well, is a mistake.  When a WISP reaches the point that 
they can offer their wireless well and take on providing their own VOIP 
services well, then sure its a good decissions. Most WISPs expecially start 
ups ARE NOT in that possition. I see to many WISP fail because they take on 
more than they can handle. Its tough dealing with outsource companies that 
start providing poor service to your clients, but its even worse when you 
start providing poor service to your own clients yourself.  When its the 
outsourced company, you can always shift blame to them, but when its 
yourself you have no choice but face the fire, without excuses.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband




-Matt

Tom DeReggi wrote:


MAtt,

I agree with you on most of your comments.
However, there is more to it.

Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling 
who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a 
VOIP provider themselves.
Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going  in to the future. 
Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never 
be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the 
rewards of bundling today.  Give the companies access to your clients 
that will be the lowest threat.


What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your 
client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options?


So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the 
service, build your own.  But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, 
they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option 
to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own.


What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends 
that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and 
are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut 
know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. 
JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to 
happen.  So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help 
succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of 
them ARE going to succeed.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up 
for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using 
the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is 
no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own 
equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP 
will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP 
business.


BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The 
domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.


-Matt

John Scrivner wrote:

Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.

Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:


You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP 
company.


Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
to make a profit.


Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.


Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

Regards,

Peter


Jonathan Schmidt wrote:


I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed 
WAV

files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Tom DeReggi

Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million
our marketing expenses were $176.3million./


Wow.

That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation more 
valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to the consumer 
via a verticle sell.


So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, would you 
like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order time, its worth 
gold.
Way more than 10-14% commissions.  Should we be paying our wholesale VOIP 
provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it would infer by 
Vonage's numbers above.

Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance



Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice.
Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?)
But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for 
Dedicated LD).

E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available).

You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one).
But Voice is way different from Data.
One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed.
Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the 
growing monster?

You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP.

Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking 
for $220M


In 1Q05:
Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of 
Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up 
about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid 
to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public 
this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new 
customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should.


Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their growth 
is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron has a 
bundle of his own cash in the venture.


In  2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the first 
major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday to raise 
up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a Tyco 
International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 2003, 
$79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended Sept. 
30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have grown 
rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily driven by 
our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of inception through 
Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for 
the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same 
nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./




Jason Hensley wrote:

What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players 
don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them coming here? 
For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 
100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. 
Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them 
will be long distance for local residents.  Is there a case for or 
against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY 
more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / 
whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks 
in these areas?  I'm getting more and more people who want wireless 
Internet SOLELY because they do not have a home phone line other than 
their cell phone.  Do you see that as what we're headed to?  I do and I 
don't personally.  I think there will be a market of some kind for that, 
but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years 
or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline.  Too 
many challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain 
and sparseness of population.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be profitable, 
at least on some level.


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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

RANT
I've got working VOIP on my network, beta-tested and ready to roll out 
but without e911.  I like VOIP, because I have people subscribing to our 
service just so they can get Vonage and ditch their land line - but this 
whole e911 thing is a fscking nightmare. 

At what point does it make more sense to say screw the 911 and just go 
forward?  Aren't there a bunch of VOIP providers out there doing this 
already?  The cellcos have bought out their 911 requirements year after 
year.   I sense a court case in the making that will either force 911 
adoption or throw it out for voip carriers.  It is definitely a gray 
area right now.


/RANT

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Tom DeReggi wrote:


Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million
our marketing expenses were $176.3million./



Wow.

That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation 
more valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to 
the consumer via a verticle sell.


So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, 
would you like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order 
time, its worth gold.
Way more than 10-14% commissions.  Should we be paying our wholesale 
VOIP provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it 
would infer by Vonage's numbers above.

Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance



Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice.
Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say 
sell?)
But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for 
Dedicated LD).

E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available).

You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one).
But Voice is way different from Data.
One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed.
Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the 
growing monster?
You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling 
VOIP.


Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are 
looking for $220M


In 1Q05:
Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of 
Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked 
up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in 
a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go 
public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads 
attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should.


Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their 
growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey 
Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture.


In  2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the 
first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing 
Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of 
stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues 
were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million 
for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus 
says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced 
increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing 
expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our 
cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine 
months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same 
nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./




Jason Hensley wrote:

What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP 
players don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them 
coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP 
provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's 
that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local 
business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local 
residents.  Is there a case for or against partnering / working with 
a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, 
have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on 
getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas?  I'm 
getting more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY 
because they do not have a home phone line other than their cell 
phone.  Do you see that as what we're headed to?  I do and I don't 
personally.  I think there will be a market of some kind for that, 
but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 
years or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with 
wireline.  Too many challenges for both cellular providers, and 
WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of population.


I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot

RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Victoria
Matt,

What type VoIP are you beta-testing?

We are currently looking at asterisk, but I am concerned about how many
subscribers I can maintain per PRI. So far the numbers I am getting do not
add up to profitability.  I almost makes more sense to resell another
providers product.

Victoria

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

RANT
I've got working VOIP on my network, beta-tested and ready to roll out but
without e911.  I like VOIP, because I have people subscribing to our service
just so they can get Vonage and ditch their land line - but this whole e911
thing is a fscking nightmare. 

At what point does it make more sense to say screw the 911 and just go
forward?  Aren't there a bunch of VOIP providers out there doing this
already?  The cellcos have bought out their 911 requirements year after 
year.   I sense a court case in the making that will either force 911 
adoption or throw it out for voip carriers.  It is definitely a gray area
right now.

/RANT

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million our marketing expenses 
 were $176.3million./


 Wow.

 That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation 
 more valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to 
 the consumer via a verticle sell.

 So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, 
 would you like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order 
 time, its worth gold.
 Way more than 10-14% commissions.  Should we be paying our wholesale 
 VOIP provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it 
 would infer by Vonage's numbers above.
 Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously?

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


 Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice.
 Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say
 sell?)
 But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for 
 Dedicated LD).
 E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available).

 You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one).
 But Voice is way different from Data.
 One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed.
 Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the 
 growing monster?
 You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling 
 VOIP.

 Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are 
 looking for $220M

 In 1Q05:
 Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of 
 Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked 
 up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in 
 a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go 
 public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads 
 attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should.

 Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their 
 growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey 
 Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture.

 In  2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the 
 first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing 
 Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of 
 stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues 
 were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million 
 for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus 
 says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced 
 increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing 
 expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our 
 cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine 
 months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same 
 nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./



 Jason Hensley wrote:

 What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP 
 players don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them 
 coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP 
 provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's 
 that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local 
 business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local 
 residents.  Is there a case for or against partnering / working with 
 a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, 
 have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on 
 getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas?  I'm 
 getting more and more

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Matt Liotta
We aren't beta testing anything. We have been providing VoIP to our 
customers for over a year now and we do use Asterisk.


-Matt

Victoria wrote:


Matt,

What type VoIP are you beta-testing?

We are currently looking at asterisk, but I am concerned about how many
subscribers I can maintain per PRI. So far the numbers I am getting do not
add up to profitability.  I almost makes more sense to resell another
providers product.

Victoria

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

RANT
I've got working VOIP on my network, beta-tested and ready to roll out but
without e911.  I like VOIP, because I have people subscribing to our service
just so they can get Vonage and ditch their land line - but this whole e911
thing is a fscking nightmare. 


At what point does it make more sense to say screw the 911 and just go
forward?  Aren't there a bunch of VOIP providers out there doing this
already?  The cellcos have bought out their 911 requirements year after 
year.   I sense a court case in the making that will either force 911 
adoption or throw it out for voip carriers.  It is definitely a gray area

right now.

/RANT

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Tom DeReggi wrote:

 

Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million our marketing expenses 
were $176.3million./
 


Wow.

That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation 
more valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to 
the consumer via a verticle sell.


So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, 
would you like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order 
time, its worth gold.
Way more than 10-14% commissions.  Should we be paying our wholesale 
VOIP provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it 
would infer by Vonage's numbers above.

Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


   


Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice.
Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say
sell?)
But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for 
Dedicated LD).

E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available).

You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one).
But Voice is way different from Data.
One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed.
Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the 
growing monster?
You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling 
VOIP.


Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are 
looking for $220M


In 1Q05:
Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of 
Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked 
up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in 
a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go 
public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads 
attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should.


Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their 
growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey 
Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture.


In  2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the 
first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing 
Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of 
stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues 
were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million 
for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus 
says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced 
increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing 
expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our 
cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine 
months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same 
nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./




Jason Hensley wrote:

 

What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP 
players don't have access numbers?  What is your opinion on them 
coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP 
provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's 
that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local 
business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local 
residents.  Is there a case for or against partnering / working with 
a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, 
have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever

RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance - Beyond VoIP: Think Like a Cable Company and Accelerate ROI

2006-03-06 Thread Charles Wu
Here's an interesting concept (so interesting, in fact, that we made a
session about it at our next show)

All wireless network operators today carry Internet advertising over their
networks.  All that network traffic equates to more than $14 billion dollars
per year and is growing at double-digit rates every year.  Yet, even though
the network operator is responsible for connecting the eyeball to the ad,
they are left conspicuously on the sidelines when the advertising revenue
checks are being handed out.

John Wigboldus from Adzilla New Media will discuss how the wireless network
operator needs to think and act like a cable television company to start
earning revenue from advertisements that are being shown to their viewers.

More details at: http://www.winog.com

Now sure exactly what they're about -- but IMO, it's an interesting thought
(and I'm gonna try to make that session =)

Btw, for those of you that can't make it -- don't fret, we DO post
powerpoints after the show available for public download (but of course it's
NEVER as good as actually being there =)

-Charles


---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:05 PM
To: John Scrivner
Cc: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus is a big International LD company. That is how it began in 1994.
Check out the Primus Wireless plan. Cellular and VOIP are based in 
International exchanges.

Primus has short term debt of $26M; long term is $635M.
About to be de-listed from Nasdaq.
Net loss for the fourth quarter 2005 was ($25) million (including a $13 
million net loss from foreign currency transactions, a $4 million gain 
on early extinguishment of debt and $1 million in severance expense).

Revenue growth was in wireless (MVNO), Covad re-sale, and International 
markets.

Retail VOIP services grew modestly in the quarter to approximately 
104,000 customers. This growth level reflects the fact that the Company 
continued to moderate its investment in LINGO in part due to the 
disruption in marketing activities raised by E911 regulations. Revenue 
from retail VOIP customers reached $8 million during the fourth quarter.


John Scrivner wrote:

 Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do
 make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share 
 more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in 
 knowing anything I can about them right now.
 Thanks,
 Scriv


 Peter R. wrote:

 You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus 
 owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

 Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how
 to make a profit.

 Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in
 revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.

 Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

 Regards,

 Peter


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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Charles Wu
snip
 I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have even 
given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some more beer and 
thoughts on that :-)
/snip

Mac,

You need some BEER -N- WIRELESS GEAR

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 


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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Charles Wu
snip
We pay 
between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance.
/snip

Matt,

Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 cents per
minute?

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds 
great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect 
to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. 

-Matt

Mac Dearman wrote:

 I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt!

  We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we
 speak. I think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own 
 VoIP offerings we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc 
 for PSTN access to limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble 
 access from a fellow WISP...etc

 I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have
 even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some 
 more beer and thoughts on that :-)


 Mac Dearman
 Maximum Access, LLC.
 Authorized Barracuda Reseller
 MikroTik RouterOS Certified
 www.inetsouth.com
 www.mac-tel.us
 www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
 Rayville, La.
 318.728.8600
 318.303.4228
 318.303.4229





 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


 In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting
 our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is 
 outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. 
 Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not 
 at all.

 The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party
 service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced 
 not be able to fix it.

 -Matt

 Tom DeReggi wrote:

 MAtt,

 I agree with you on most of your comments.
 However, there is more to it.

 Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about
 controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have 
 the time to be a VOIP provider themselves.
 Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going  in to the 
 future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will 
 likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the 
 money, and reap the rewards of bundling today.  Give the companies 
 access to your clients that will be the lowest threat.

 What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to
 your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP 
 options?

 So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money
 on the service, build your own.  But don't knock the 
 Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable 
 many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the 
 resources to build their own.

 What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry
 trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand 
 them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses 
 money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the 
 quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of 
 something that is going to happen.  So my point is, pick the 
 companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to 
 help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


 Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign
 them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP 
 providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 
 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term 
 unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money 
 to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan 
 for it or do get into the VoIP business.

 BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The
 domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist.

 -Matt

 John Scrivner wrote:

 Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do
 make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you 
 share more about your information about Primus? I have a big 
 interest in knowing anything I can about them right now.
 Thanks,
 Scriv


 Peter R. wrote:

 You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. 
 Primus

RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-06 Thread Jonathan Schmidt
I really have to say that I had the opposite experience.

My Lingo, dicey for the first 6 months a couple of years
ago, has been rock solid for the past 18 months since I
got the newer boxes (USTARCOM).

The voice quality was not as good as Vonage unless you select
the higher quality option on your personal features Web page.
It is set to work well over DSL but a cable connection will
sound good with the higher quality option.

However, it will also work over a dial-up modem to a dialup ISP
(my cable router's backup route thru my lifeline...a business
FAX line I wanted to keep)!

I have always been able to get a Canadian tech of very high
quality when I pressed the agent.  I have waited anywhere from
2 to 20 minutes for an agent, however, but don't know recently
since I have had no problems.

Yes, there have been glitches, but very few.  I get many more
with SKYPE and all circuits are busy is frequent with my
office SBC (oops, AT).

On the whole, I wouldn't run from Lingo.  The number porting
anomolies and error responses may not be all their doing.

But, maybe it is.

. . . j o n a t h a n


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Hi Scriv,

We tried Lingo but could not get it to work reliably and
their voice quality was horrible when it did work. Their
support is overseas so expect to be treated like a number
instead of a person. LNP's are hard to get approved and
people calling our ported number often got a busy signal
when we were not on the phone. Even if we were on the
phone, they should not have received a busy signal because
we their service is suppose to include call waiting. During
the first week or two after our number was ported, some
callers received a This number has been disconnected
message when they called us. My advice is to turn and run.


Sincerely,
Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder
KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky
http://www.KyWiFi.com
http://www.KyWiFiVoice.com
Phone: 859.274.4033
A Broadband Phone  Internet Provider

==
Wireless Broadband, Local Calling and
UNLIMITED Long Distance only $69!

No Taxes, No Regulatory Fees, No Hassles

FREE Site Survey: http://www.KyWiFi.com
==


- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make 
money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more 
about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing 
anything I can about them right now.
Thanks,
Scriv


Peter R. wrote:

 You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet.
 Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company.

 Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how 
 to make a profit.

 Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue 
 in 4Q05 and just $22k in income.

 Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC.

 Regards,

 Peter


 Jonathan Schmidt wrote:

 I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
 unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month
 and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV
 files of all incoming voicemails, etc.).
  
 Now, that's retail w/box and support.
  
 I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
 while
 the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
 cell
 phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited
 free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO
 additional cost is kinda cool.
  
 It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like 
 Vonaga, but
 haven't seen it yet.
  
 . . . j o n a t h a n


-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-05 Thread Rick Smith


the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped by 
the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys.  No one, and I've looked and 
spoken to many, has 337-774 portable...


JohnnyO wrote:


Ok -

#1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ 
years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this 
location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for 
generating this.


#2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option

#3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as 
their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts.


#4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to 
have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by 
dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the 
dialing features.


I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment 
on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. 
At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS 
lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office.


I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as 
well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX 
aspects and VoIP advantages also.


JohnnyO

On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote:

Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is 
doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can 
make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? 
BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution? 



Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com 


- Original Message - 

*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

*To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

*Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org 

*Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM 

*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance 




Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their
office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their
location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit
dialing in our area.

This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has
specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta
for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I
will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+
people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all
of their locations.

JohnnyO

On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:



The Hell you say I can't!   
Pick your towns and get the check book out  - $50.00 per number

and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as
well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar
none!
337 Crowley LA
337 De Ridder LA
337 Lafayette LA
337 Lawtell LA
337 Leesville LA
337 Lake Charles LA
337 New Iberia LA
337 Opelousas LA
337 St Martinville LA
337 Sulphur LA
337 Vinton LA
337 Youngsville LA
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com http://www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us http://www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org http://www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina
Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229

 


- Original Message -
*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Mac - you can't provide it either :) Please let me know if
you can...

337-774  


Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also -
will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay
$50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about
9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month

JohnnyO

On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:



Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the
rest of it  :-)
How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you
need them? With 911 of course.
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com http://www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us http://www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org http://www.RadioResponse.org
(Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229

 


- Original Message -
*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* WISPA

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-05 Thread Mac Dearman
The fact that you may not be able to port that particular number shouldnt be 
a problem. I would never take 100% of the POTS lines out of any business any 
way. Roll that important number into the * box as an inbound line only and 
have it roll over the calls to the VoIP lines. It would never do anything 
but have inbound phone calls coming across it and could serve as a backup in 
case their WISP decided to take a vacation during the busy season and the 
wireless goes down. :)


  J'O - if you have wireless to all his locations now - - you could knock 
out those lohg distance charges to day by carrying his traffic across your 
network. Of course there would be a little ole small fee for that eh? :)


Holler if we can help

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229





- Original Message - 
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance




the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped by 
the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys.  No one, and I've looked and spoken 
to many, has 337-774 portable...


JohnnyO wrote:


Ok -

#1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ 
years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. 
It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating this.


#2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option

#3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as 
their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts.


#4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to have 
to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 
774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing 
features.


I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment on-hand 
and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At this 
point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines to make 
this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office.


I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. I 
have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects and 
VoIP advantages also.


JohnnyO

On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote:

Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is doable. 
Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can make this 
happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, What do 
you have against an Asterisk solution?



Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com


- Original Message - 


*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their
office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their
location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit
dialing in our area.

This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has
specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta
for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I
will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+
people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all
of their locations.

JohnnyO

On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:



The Hell you say I can't!   Pick your towns and get the check book 
out  - $50.00 per number

and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as
well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar
none!
337 Crowley LA
337 De Ridder LA
337 Lafayette LA
337 Lawtell LA
337 Leesville LA
337 Lake Charles LA
337 New Iberia LA
337 Opelousas LA
337 St Martinville LA
337 Sulphur LA
337 Vinton LA
337 Youngsville LA
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com http://www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us http://www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org http://www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina
Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229


- Original Message -
*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-05 Thread Rick Smith
Mac, you're right, but the local-dialing problem is the one Johnny's 
trying to solve, with NO CALL FORWARDING involved, which would incur him 
extra charges...  The problem is this company's customers in the local 
area dialing them 9 - 12000 minutes / month, and if they're dialing a 
337-774 number now, there's NO WAY you can get local numbers to that on 
PRIs or BRIs or T-1s - only POTS in Johnny's facility, which then incurs 
huge charges. 

The ONE option I suggested to Johnny was getting an 800#, and call 
forwarding the local 337-774 numbers to that 800#, but then that company 
would pay for the toll-free minutes


No easy away around it at the moment, I'm afraid...

Mac Dearman wrote:

The fact that you may not be able to port that particular number 
shouldnt be a problem. I would never take 100% of the POTS lines out 
of any business any way. Roll that important number into the * box as 
an inbound line only and have it roll over the calls to the VoIP 
lines. It would never do anything but have inbound phone calls coming 
across it and could serve as a backup in case their WISP decided to 
take a vacation during the busy season and the wireless goes down. :)


  J'O - if you have wireless to all his locations now - - you could 
knock out those lohg distance charges to day by carrying his traffic 
across your network. Of course there would be a little ole small fee 
for that eh? :)


Holler if we can help

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229





- Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance




the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped 
by the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys.  No one, and I've looked 
and spoken to many, has 337-774 portable...


JohnnyO wrote:


Ok -

#1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ 
years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this 
location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for 
generating this.


#2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option

#3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and 
as their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts.


#4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to 
have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by 
dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the 
dialing features.


I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment 
on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. 
At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS 
lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our 
office.


I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as 
well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted 
PBX aspects and VoIP advantages also.


JohnnyO

On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote:

Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is 
doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we 
can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients 
right? BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution?




Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com




- Original Message -
*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their
office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their
location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit
dialing in our area.

This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has
specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta
for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I
will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+
people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all
of their locations.

JohnnyO

On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:



The Hell you say I can't!   Pick your towns and get the check 
book out  - $50.00 per number

and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as
well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar
none!
337 Crowley LA
337 De Ridder LA
337 Lafayette LA
337 Lawtell LA
337 Leesville LA
337 Lake Charles LA
337 New Iberia LA
337 Opelousas LA
337 St Martinville LA

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-05 Thread Mac Dearman
The * box would provide the all the roll over services needed for actual 
POTS line that has no options via the local ILEC/CLEC. Then the other true 
VoIP lines in the * box could/would service all the outgoing calls.


Example:
Current VIP POTS line rings  - the * box shuffles that call to a VoIP line 
also in the * box that is then answered and leaves the VIP POTS line open 
for other incoming calls. Its really not complicated, but is involved to get 
it all set up. All outgoing calls could be sent via the VoIP so that the VIP 
POTS line is never tied up.


I tell ya again - if you need some help - call me


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229





- Original Message - 
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Mac, you're right, but the local-dialing problem is the one Johnny's 
trying to solve, with NO CALL FORWARDING involved, which would incur him 
extra charges...  The problem is this company's customers in the local 
area dialing them 9 - 12000 minutes / month, and if they're dialing a 
337-774 number now, there's NO WAY you can get local numbers to that on 
PRIs or BRIs or T-1s - only POTS in Johnny's facility, which then incurs 
huge charges.
The ONE option I suggested to Johnny was getting an 800#, and call 
forwarding the local 337-774 numbers to that 800#, but then that company 
would pay for the toll-free minutes


No easy away around it at the moment, I'm afraid...

Mac Dearman wrote:

The fact that you may not be able to port that particular number shouldnt 
be a problem. I would never take 100% of the POTS lines out of any 
business any way. Roll that important number into the * box as an inbound 
line only and have it roll over the calls to the VoIP lines. It would 
never do anything but have inbound phone calls coming across it and could 
serve as a backup in case their WISP decided to take a vacation during 
the busy season and the wireless goes down. :)


  J'O - if you have wireless to all his locations now - - you could knock 
out those lohg distance charges to day by carrying his traffic across 
your network. Of course there would be a little ole small fee for that 
eh? :)


Holler if we can help

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4228
318.303.4229





- Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance




the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped by 
the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys.  No one, and I've looked and 
spoken to many, has 337-774 portable...


JohnnyO wrote:


Ok -

#1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ 
years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. 
It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating 
this.


#2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option

#3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as 
their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts.


#4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to 
have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 
774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing 
features.


I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment 
on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At 
this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines 
to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office.


I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. 
I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects 
and VoIP advantages also.


JohnnyO

On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote:

Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is 
doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can 
make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? 
BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution?




Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com




- Original Message -
*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance


Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their
office 7

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-04 Thread Mac Dearman



The Hell you say I can't! 


Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 
per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as 
local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none!


337 
Crowley 
LA 

337 
De 
Ridder LA 

337 
Lafayette 
LA
337 
Lawtell 
LA 

337 
Leesville 
LA 

337 
Lake 
Charles LA 

337 
New 
Iberia LA 

337 
Opelousas 
LA 

337 
St 
Martinville LA 

337 
Sulphur 
LA 

337 
Vinton 
LA 

337 
Youngsville 
LA

Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda 
ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: Mac Dearman 
  Cc: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 
PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway 
  appliance
  Mac - you can't provide it either  Please let 
  me know if you can...337-774 Let me know if 
  you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans 
  ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 
  9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per monthJohnnyOOn Fri, 
  2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:
   
  Just send me a connection fee 
and I will take care of the rest of it :-) 
   
  How many lines, whats the area 
code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. 
   
   
  Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized 
Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS 
Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 
  
   
   
   
   
  
- Original Message - 

  
From: JohnnyO 
  
  
To: WISPA General List 
  
  
Cc: Judd's List 

  
Sent: 
  Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM 
  
Subject: 
  [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance 
  

  
I am looking for a appliance/device that 
  will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for 
  an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under 
  $2k or less.I cannot get a PRI in my 
  area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have 
  is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must have local services due to this being on a shipping 
  channel and 911 is very critical.Any 
  suggestions would be appreciated.JohnnyO 
  
  -- WISPA 
  Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 

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RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-04 Thread Jonathan Schmidt



I've 
been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me
unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for 
$19.95/month
and an 
unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed 
WAV
files 
of all incoming voicemails, etc.).

Now, 
that's retail w/box and support.

I've 
taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet 
while
the 
laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a 
cell
phone 
but having my local number with me in Europe and having 
unlimited
free 
calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO 

additional cost is kinda cool.

It's 
SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, 
but
haven't seen it yet.

. . . 
j o n a t h a n

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mac 
  DearmanSent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 7:21 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: WISPA General ListSubject: 
  Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
  The Hell you say I can't! 

  
  
  Pick your towns and get the check book out - 
  $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance 
  as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar 
  none!
  
  
  337 
  Crowley 
  LA 
  
  337 
  De 
  Ridder LA 
  
  337 
  Lafayette 
  LA
  337 
  Lawtell 
  LA 
  
  337 
  Leesville 
  LA 
  
  337 
  Lake 
  Charles LA 
  
  337 
  New 
  Iberia LA 
  
  337 
  Opelousas 
  LA 
  
  337 
  St 
  Martinville LA 
  
  337 
  Sulphur 
  LA 
  
  337 
  Vinton 
  LA 
  
  337 
  Youngsville 
  LA
  
  Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda 
  ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
  Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 
318.303.4228318.303.4229
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
JohnnyO 
To: Mac Dearman 
Cc: WISPA General List 
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 
PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway 
appliance
Mac - you can't provide it either  Please let me know 
if you can...337-774 Let me know if you can 
provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd 
be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 
9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per monthJohnnyOOn Fri, 
2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:
 
Just send me a connection fee 
  and I will take care of the rest of it :-) 

How many lines, whats the area 
  code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. 


Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
  Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 



 

  - Original Message - 
  

  From: 
JohnnyO 


  To: WISPA General List 
  

  Cc: Judd's List 
  

  Sent: 
Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM 

  Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance 


  

  I am looking for a appliance/device that 
will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for 
an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under 
$2k or less.I cannot get a PRI in my 
area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I 
have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. 
I must have local services due to 
this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very 
critical.Any suggestions would be 
appreciated.JohnnyO 

-- WISPA 
Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: 
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-04 Thread JohnnyO




Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our area.

This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all of their locations.

JohnnyO

On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:

 


The Hell you say I can't! 








Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none!








337 Crowley LA 


337 De Ridder LA 


337 Lafayette LA


337 Lawtell LA 


337 Leesville LA 


337 Lake Charles LA 


337 New Iberia LA 


337 Opelousas LA 


337 St Martinville LA 


337 Sulphur LA 


337 Vinton LA 


337 Youngsville LA





Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 
318.303.4228
318.303.4229
















- Original Message - 




From: JohnnyO 




To: Mac Dearman 




Cc: WISPA General List 




Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM




Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance










Mac - you can't provide it either  Please let me know if you can...

337-774 

Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month

JohnnyO

On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:

 
Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) 
How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. 
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 
318.303.4228
318.303.4229 

 

- Original Message - 
From: JohnnyO 
To: WISPA General List 
Cc: Judd's List 
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM 
Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance 


I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.

I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. 

I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

JohnnyO 






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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-04 Thread Joe Laura



Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not 
think this is doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we 
can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, 
What do you have against an Asterisk solution? 
Superior WirelessNew Orleans,La.www.superior1.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: Mac Dearman 
  Cc: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway 
  appliance
  Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means 
  their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their 
  location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our 
  area.This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has 
  specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at 
  one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture 
  all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 
  64 lines combined across all of their locations.JohnnyOOn Sat, 
  2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:
   
  The Hell you say I 
can't! 
   
   
  Pick your towns and get the 
check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes 
unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles 
and bells - bar none! 
   
   
  337 Crowley LA 

  337 De Ridder LA 
  
  337 Lafayette LA 
  
  337 Lawtell LA 

  337 Leesville LA 
  
  337 Lake Charles LA 
  
  337 New Iberia LA 
  
  337 Opelousas LA 
  
  337 St Martinville LA 
  
  337 Sulphur LA 

  337 Vinton LA 
  337 Youngsville LA 
  
   
  Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized 
Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS 
Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 
  
   
   
   
   
  
- Original Message - 

  
From: JohnnyO 
  
  
To: Mac Dearman 
  
  
Cc: WISPA General List 
  
  
Sent: 
  Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM 
  
Subject: 
  Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance 
  

  
Mac - you can't provide it either 
   Please let me know if you 
  can...337-774 
  Let me know if you can provide local to 
  me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to 
  pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL 
  minutes per monthJohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-03-03 
  at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:
   Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the 
rest of it :-) How many lines, 
whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. 
Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 
 
- Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: 
  WISPA General List 
  Cc: 
  Judd's List 
  Sent: 
  Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX 
  Gateway appliance I am looking 
  for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 
  POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out 
  a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI 
  in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can 
  get for $23.00/mo each. I must have 
  local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very 
  critical.Any suggestions would be 
  appreciated.JohnnyO 
  
  -- WISPA Wireless List: 
  wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
  
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-04 Thread JohnnyO




Ok - 

#1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating this. 

#2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option

#3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts.

#4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing features.

I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office.

I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects and VoIP advantages also.

JohnnyO

On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote:

 


Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution? 


Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com



- Original Message - 




From: JohnnyO 




To: Mac Dearman 




Cc: WISPA General List 




Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM




Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance










Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our area.

This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all of their locations.

JohnnyO

On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:

 
The Hell you say I can't! 
Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 
337 Crowley LA 
337 De Ridder LA 
337 Lafayette LA 
337 Lawtell LA 
337 Leesville LA 
337 Lake Charles LA 
337 New Iberia LA 
337 Opelousas LA 
337 St Martinville LA 
337 Sulphur LA 
337 Vinton LA 
337 Youngsville LA 
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 
318.303.4228
318.303.4229 

 

- Original Message - 
From: JohnnyO 
To: Mac Dearman 
Cc: WISPA General List 
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance 


Mac - you can't provide it either  Please let me know if you can...

337-774 

Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month

JohnnyO

On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:

 
Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) 
How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. 
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 
318.303.4228

Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-03 Thread Mac Dearman



Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the 
rest of it :-)

How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you 
need them? With 911 of course.


Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda 
ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina 
Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Cc: Judd's List 
  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 
PM
  Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway 
  appliance
  I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP 
  Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but 
  seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.I cannot 
  get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only 
  option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must 
  have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very 
  critical.Any suggestions would be appreciated.JohnnyO 
  
  

  -- WISPA Wireless List: 
  wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: 
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Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance

2006-03-03 Thread JohnnyO




Mac - you can't provide it either  Please let me know if you can...

337-774 

Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month

JohnnyO

On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:

 


Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-)





How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course.








Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 
318.303.4228
318.303.4229
















- Original Message - 




From: JohnnyO 




To: WISPA General List 




Cc: Judd's List 




Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM




Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance










I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.

I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. 

I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

JohnnyO 





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