Israel is covenant-founded, temple-based, and Christ-centered. The work
of Jesus Christ is the reason the covenant of Abraham exists. The
Abrahamic covenant, which is the covenant of Israel, is in every way as
significant in the last days as it was in any age of the past.
Jesus Christ is the
Great consideration is given regarding the confidentiality of the
decisions of a Church disciplinary council. No announcement is ever made
when a member is placed on formal probation. Decisions to disfellowship
or excommunicate are generally not announced publicly unless the
transgression is
My friends,
I fervently pray that the Lord might generously bless all those who
suffer or are sorely afflicted. May their souls be salved with healing
and relief.
As for myself, I reiterate my own marvel--every Sunday, the doors of the
church do not of themselves swing shut, at my very
Scott McGee wrote:
---
Ok, question time. If a person is excomunicated due to them having
taught false doctrine, is a statement from them renouncing the false
doctrine required for their repentance?
---
If there is such a policy, I have not heard of it.
In my experience, the specific
Atonement for sin is no longer made by the high priest in Israel when he
passes through the veil of the temple into the holy of holies. (Lev.
16.) See Heb. 6:19-20. Now there is a new way, a living way, for the
veil of the old temple was rent with the crucifixion. (Matt. 27:50-51.)
Now Jesus
One of the most significant meanings of the veil is the representation
of our separation from God. He has counseled us to prepare for the
eventual removal of that veil...
22 Behold, it is my will, that all they who call on my name, and
worship me according to mine everlasting gospel,
Paul Osborne wrote:
---
No one in this church can be excommunicated for simply teaching false
doctrine.
---
Fortunate for me--I get it wrong nearly every time, and I wouldn't have
lasted long in this church otherwise. Tolerance is the virtual safety
belt that lets us live with each other in
John W. Redelfs wrote:
---
In other word I'm still in love with the movie, Princess Bride. Farm
Boy and Buttercup had it right.
---
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments, love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove.
O no, it
An interesting note in my mailbox today...
Since I'm already independently wealthy, I have no interest in this
unique investment opportunity. No need to be selfish, I said to myself.
Perhaps someone else could benefit from the promised 5 million dollars.
In all honesty, even if these crooks
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
---
Jim, your cynical lack of faith in mankind leaves me shocked and
appalled.
---
Take heart, Stephen. I suspect the scam will probably pay off--at least
for somebody. :-)
I am truly pleased at the prospect of success of others. Having
personally attained a level
This message is symbolic, therefore it cannot be construed to contain
any particular meaning. Take a stab in the dark, interpret it however
you like. One guess is as good as another.
---
Mij Ebaboc
/
/// ZION LIST
News article reports that the is U.S. withdrawing support for the UN
Reproductive Health agreement. The agreement was apparently largely a
committment from the Clinton presidency for the US to fund women's
choice clinics in third-world countries.
http://www.sltrib.com/11022002/saturday/12782.htm
Interesting article about a science study by a social anthropologist,
refers to mormons distracted by gospel hobbies as double dippers.
Whatever their secondary involvement, these double dippers are
motivated by a sense of deprivation: they
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
---
The good thing is that, according to Ms. Fletcher Stack and the
accomplished Dr. Bennion, we are an important subset of The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yippee! I feel so empowered!
---
I'm not convinced that Peggy would express her feelings in
Marc A. Schindler wrote:
---
Just be careful: a lot of what Crowther wrote was personal speculation
on his part.
---
Shouldn't be much of a problem, because more than half the text consists
of direct quotations--from personal journals and letters of those who
experienced or spoke of death
Archaeologists have recently discovered fossil evidence of evolutionary
transitional forms of modern sheep species. Of course, these illustrations
are not being promoted as absolutely accurate renderings, science being the
forever tentative discipline that it is.
---
Mij Ebaboc
[EMAIL
was published in EOS Transactions, a publication of the
American Geophysics Union. Cheryl Bertoia, of the U.S. National Ice Center
participated in the study.
Jim Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.tripod.com/~jcobabe
When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor
John W. Redelfs wrote:
---
Jim what sources do you use to keep abreast of this kind of news?
---
Only the most reputable peer-reviewed science journals. (Of course!)
;-
---
Mij Ebaboc
/
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please
Providing authoratative interpretation of the scriptures is one of the
explict roles of prophets, seers, and revelators who lead the Lord's
people. Followers of academics, apologists, revisionists, agnostics,
and assorted fruits and nuts, will be sadly misled.
---
Mij Ebaboc
What Brigham Young had to say about the symbolic story of Jericho:
If we are the people of God, we are to be the richest people on the
earth, and these riches are to be held in God, not in the devil. God
tells us how we may accomplish this, as plainly and as surely as he told
Joshua and the
Brother Fairbank, what happy news. Congratulations!
---
Mij Ebaboc
/
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Stacy Smith wrote:
---
I would like a listing of Steven E. Robinson's books so I might buy
them. This one sounds interesting.
---
Robinson has written three books that are included on my GospeLink
collection.
ARE MORMONS CHRISTIANS?
by Stephen E. Robinson
Bookcraft
Salt Lake City, Utah 1991
An angel appears at a faculty meeting and tells the dean that in return
for his unselfish and exemplary behavior, the Lord will reward him
with his choice of infinite wealth, wisdom, or beauty.
Without hesitating, the dean selects infinite wisdom.
Done! says the angel, and disappears in a
Another of these entertaining invitations from Lagos...
GREENFIELDS AGRO-ALLIED COMPANY.
10 BROAD STREET,
LAGOS-NIGERIA.
TEL: 2348023263622
Your Attention:
First, I must solicit your strictest understanding in the matter i am about
to disclose to you,if the contents of this mail does
It is difficult to find books on evolution that avoid dogmatic
approaches. I suspect that most who disagree with the rank and file do
so privately. In my experience any lack of enthusiasm for the currently
favored doctrine of evolution is met with waves of contempt and
derision. If you
Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top
of the Dem heap in the Congress, while many of the other rats abandon
the sinking ship. Appears that she doesn't even attempt to hide her
whacked-out leftist socialist feminazi idealism. Near as I can tell,
she is an
Bible stories that Mother Young taught to Brigham when he was a child
may be the stumbling block of those who read the scriptures with a
traditional approach. But Brigham's word on this matter doesn't seem to
be exactly as we might have been led to believe. In context, his
disparaging
Marc A. Schindler wrote:
---
What would happen if an elderly lady stood up in your next fast
testimony meeting and started talking in tongues?
---
Unworthy soul that I am, nonetheless I believe I would weep for joy.
This really is a hypothetical, sadly enough. We apparently are not
Paul Osborne wrote:
---
Trust me, you're not alone. I don't care about Jackon County or the
second coming or any of the dreaded prophecies of doom. I just want to
get my mission done and get out of here. The sooner the better as I wish
the Lord would hurry it up and beam me up. I'm so sick of
Paul Osborne wrote:
---
Trust me, you're not alone. I don't care about Jackon County or the
second coming or any of the dreaded prophecies of doom. I just want to
get my mission done and get out of here. The sooner the better as I wish
the Lord would hurry it up and beam me up. I'm so sick of
Paul Osborne wrote:
---
Trust me, you're not alone. I don't care about Jackon County or the
second coming or any of the dreaded prophecies of doom. I just want to
get my mission done and get out of here. The sooner the better as I wish
the Lord would hurry it up and beam me up. I'm so sick of
John W. Redelfs wrote:
---
Vancouver is part of the greater Seattle metropolitan area, isn't it?
very big grin
---
Of course, and Toronto is just a Buffalo suburb. Indeed the whole
population of Canada is excluded from being blessed with US citizenship
by the thinnest of margins. If
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
---
It appears you've gotten your wish. I certainly hope you all are right.
My observation is that when wackos get into leadership position, they
eventually stop looking quite so wacky. A monster of so frightful mien
and all that.
---
I would share your concern if we
Steven Montgomery wrote:
---
Perhaps you're right, but I still fail to see how the United States
maintained the moral high ground by bombing civilians. I think a
demonstration about 5 miles offshore might have accomplished the same
purpose.
---
I don't know who was morally right or wrong in
If you don't care for Nigerian scams, maybe Zaire will be a happier match.
DEAR FRIEND,
THIS MAY COME TO YOU AS SUPRISE DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE NOT MET.
I AM MRS MARIAM SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU
SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE? NOW KNOWN AS DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC
OF CONGO (DRC). I
Jon Spencer wrote:
---
Of course, with all the hysteria over nuclear power that the
envirowackos have stirred up, the emotional damage would be much
greater.
---
Creating terror is the real objective of terrorism, isn't it? What does
it matter that dirty bombs are ineffective at inflicting
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote:
---
Hey, no fair--she's mine! I've gotten a couple from her. Hmpf, and
here I thought she way MY friend ;-o
---
I indicated earlier that I'm already independently wealthy, so I have no
need for a share of these people's promised millions. You're welcome to
It is further obvious to me that some onlookers to the political scene
lack the discernment to note that good and honest people cannot in good
conscience affiliate, without serious reservations, with either of the
major political groups in this country. I have every confidence that
noted
If Satan can't intimidate or bully us with physical trials, he'll often
try to fool us with substitute issues and programs. He would like us to
invest our time, talents, and energy in causes that are not the cause of
Zion, in the hope they may ultimately replace our commitment to the
gospel.
The Democrat asked his Republican friend, Why are you a Republican? He
replied, I am a Republican because my father was a Republican.
The Democrat said, That's no reason. If you want to be a Republican
because you like President Eisenhower, because you think Senator
Goldwater is a wonderful
24th Amendment
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or
other election for President or Vice President, for electors for
President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in
Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any
State by
http://www.abbottloop.org/alconweb/pol_news/mythafa.htm
During the French and Indian War, the 23-year-old Washington was
fighting with the British against the French who were allied with
the Indians. On July 9, 1755, in the Battle of the Monongahela, the
British regiments were ambushed by the
Here's the other reference--
Joseph Smith made many prophetic statements that last to our day. Some
of them seemed preposterous at the time. Lillie Freeze recalls one such.
He said the time would come when none but the women of the Latter-day
Saints would be willing to bear children.fn In
,
or Timpanogos?
---
Jim Cobabe
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html
I understand that the Church does not endorse any political policy,
except in cases where a moral issue is involved. There is a strong
effort to avoid the suggestion that the platform of a particular
political party represents or has the unilateral backing of the Church.
This has been the
Perhaps the motivation behind liberal rhetoric reacting to the
Republican domination in US politics is more instructive than all the
supposedly moderate and centrist Democrat voices urging respect and
tolerance for their views. Perhaps Bill Moyers editorial gives a better
picture of what
John,
My folks place is in Sanpete County, about 50 miles southeast of
Provo--midway between Provo and Manti. This is about two hours of
highway time from the airport, or from downtown SLC.
In any case I'm really flexible. How about you and Doug figure out a
schedule that works, and I'll
Jim Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.tripod.com/~jcobabe
When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor
less.
_
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http
LDS Author 's Book Deemed Inappropriate
Thursday, November 14, 2002
BY CHRISTY KARRAS
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
Nobody looked to Deseret Book as a source for steamy romance novels,
but now even tame love stories face possible eviction from the shelves.
The LDS Church-owned chain of
Rick Mathis wrote:
---
Wow! That's almost as many people as California!
---
Yah. Canada can't accomodate as many as Califoria. Not enough freeways
to park them on.
---
Mij Ebaboc
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please
This is probably anachronistic too, I suppose.
(Abraham 1:31.)
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the
right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands;
therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the
planets, and of
Marc A. Schindler wrote:
---
Actually ancients did not make a distinction between astrology and
astronomy as we
do -- the prohibition against astrology is being read back into the OT,
which is
anachronistic. Zodiac mosaics have been found on the floors of 1st
century BC
synagogues in
Stacy Smith wrote:
---
I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to
feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I
right?
---
We can experience genuine spiritual manifestations that are a result of
the power and direct influence of God. Many make
Elmer L. Fairbank wrote:
---
In the world but not of it or something of it's ilk. What's the
source of the saying?
---
According to Nibley--
That is, when I find myself called upon to stand up and be counted, to
declare myself on one side or the other, which do I prefergin or rum,
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/editorial/021118plaza.html
---
Mij Ebaboc
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Jon,
It appears that the generally accepted definition of hot drinks may
have been fairly broad for a period of time. A quote from Widtsoe's
1937 book on the Word of Wisdom--
Caffeine, the essential principle of tea and coffee, was discovered, as
a chemical substance, a few years before the
http://www.nature.com/nsu/02/02-7.html
Plant biologists discuss ways that organisms in the plant world appear
to mimic the forms of insect life as a beneficial adaptation.
These features are common enough in the plant world to merit a lot of
consideration from the evolutionist's
My regular diatribe on this question--
Those of us who now need or have needed psychotrophic drugs for personal
maintenance face serious enough challenges in life, without having to
contend with unqualified people who presume to know all about our
illnesses and afflictions. And sadly, there
Dan R Allen wrote:
---
This very subject came up in a meeting I attended recently, and a
statistic was thrown out that I found rather shocking: 40% of
missionaries from North America are supposably on Ritalyn. Has anyone
else heard this?
---
It seems more likely that this report is conflated
Adaptation that can be properly characterized as mimicry in plants is
indicative of some mechanism or force that cannot be accounted for
within the current domain of evolutionary philosophy. My belief is that
the science of evolution cannot accomodate or explain the gradual
development of
One entry found for politician.
Main Entry: pol·i·ti·cian
Pronunciation: pä-l-'ti-shn
Function: noun
Date: 1589
1 : a person experienced in the art or science of government; especially
: one actively engaged in conducting the business of a government
2 a : a person engaged in party politics
Granted, Bush probably _is_ a moron. But it's astronomically bad form
for a politician in a foreign government to say so in public.
Besides, Canada and the US are supposed to be collaborating in the war
on terror(TM), and this is just a horrifying breach of international
security. What if
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
---
You don't think she qualifies as one actively engaged in conducting the
business of a government? You don't think she is a person engaged in
party politics as a profession? I think she very clearly qualifies
under at least those two definitions.
---
Yes, another
Gary Smith wrote:
---
BTW, IMO philosophy shows that evolution is a farce. However, it DOES
show that de-evolution does occur in laboratory mice and high school
students
---
I concur. Indeed, the entire history of the human race is a testament
to devolution. Men are in a lost and fallen
Stacy, some practical thoughts. If you reflect on this question with
any degree of honesty, you already know that there are some things we
simply do not ever forgive, notwithstanding the doctrines of the
Church and the principles of repentence.
It seems to me that societies and cultures deem
A much more important event--
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,450016822,00.html;
University of Utah head football coach McBride is fired after beating
BYU, and calling everyone at BYU morons.
It is prudent to pay insults carefully these days. Never know when
_your_ head might end up
Hmm...
First, we simply misread. Wrong to assume that people engaged in
politics are politicians.
Next, we didn't comprehend the niceties of the highly sophisticated
Canadian political machine.
Then it was foolishly quoting idiosyncratic definitions from
Merriam-Webtster's Dictionary.
Now
Deseret News, Tuesday, November 26, 2002
Deseret News editorial
Every now and then a study comes along that puts old problems in a new
light. Last week, the Toledo Blade reported that a Bowling Green State
University professor has found that while fewer cohabitating couples end
up getting
The irony is painful.
Our society has willfully destroyed the stablity of families,
compromising traditional marriage in the name of serving women's rights.
Now the growing contingent of single women look back with nostalgia on
the way things were, wondering why their lives can't work as
Scott McGee wrote, about former Ute football coach:
---
Neither of the reasons you mention were in fact reasons for him being
fired.
---
Ain't it the truth--and now everyone probably knows a lot more about
this--and those inconsequential Canadian current events--than they ever
cared to. I
Paul,
One of the first principles to serving in the Temple is to first be
properly prepared. Make sure you're ready. Make sure you _know_ you're
ready. Work with your bishop on this, he can really be a lot of help.
When you both have determined that the time is right, then you can go
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
---
Marc, I'm baffled at your insistent glee on this topic.
---
Wresting a scriptural passage for particular emphasis--
But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of
your minds comes because of the traditions of Canadians and leftist
by William L. Anderson
[Posted November 29, 2002]
In a recent newspaper interview, Al Gore finally came out of the
socialist closet and declared that the solution to what he deems as a
crisis in U.S. medical care is for the government to impose a single
payer system. While some folks might
Jewish World Review Nov. 27, 2002 / 22 Kislev 5763
Thomas Sowell
Gun Control myths: Part II
http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com
Talking facts to gun control zealots is only likely to make them angry.
But the rest of us need to know what the facts are. More than that, we
need to know that much
Now a few words to the brethren and sisters upon the doctrine and
ordinances of the house of God. All who have lived on the earth
according to the best light they had, and would have received the
fulness of the Gospel had it been preached to them, are worthy of a
glorious resurrection, and
Saturday, November 30, 2002
BY PATTY HENETZ
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
A graduate student at the University of Washington says he likely
will be excommunicated next week for articles he has written questioning
the validity of the Book of Mormon.
Thomas W. Murphy, 35, wrote an
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
---
Is there a link to the AP article (or others) or to the paper
itself?
---
http://www.sltrib.com/2002/nov/11302002/saturday/7024.htm
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
This science study is only a minor skirmish, but a significant portent
of things to come, nonetheless. As apologists for politically correct
humanist ideals grow more agressive and dogmatic, there will be
increasing tension between the secular and religious.
In Salt Lake City, a troublesome
A quote from Louis Midgley regarding those who question the Book of
Mormon historicity--Sterling McMurrin, former philosophy prof at the
University of Utah, typifies this crowd, and was the poster child of
many of the current followers of the dissident camp.
Revisionist HistoryThe Great
At this time, the truth on the guilty should not be told openly, strange
as this may seem, yet this is a policy. We must use precaution in
bringing sinners to justice, lest in exposing these heinous sins we draw
the indignation of a Gentile world upon us (and, to their imagination,
justly
From: Rob Hanks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:27 pm
Subject: PLAZA UPDATE 12-12-02
FRIENDS OF MAIN STREET UPDATE - DEC 12, 2002
Thank you! Thank You! Thank You! Thanks for all of your signatures,
e-mails, phone calls and letters to the Mayor and City Council in favor
of
Paul Osborne wrote:
What does the following title mean?
CLU, ChFC
CLU - chartered life underwriter, CHFC - chartered financial
consultant. The first equates to a couple of semesters of technical
training courses in the life insurance business. The other is roughly
equivalent to an
Tom,
Please keep your wheels polished, be very careful navigating the stairs,
and above all, see that you maintain the integrity of your integument at
all times.
(Can you really ride your Harley down the stairs? Imagine that!)
---
Mij Ebaboc
John W. Redelfs wrote:
Here is what I think about the doctrine of the Holy Trinity:
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mame raths outgrabe.
It seems very pretty, but it's rather hard to understand!
---
Mij Ebaboc
All this hobbit business makes my feet itch!
---
Mij Ebaboc
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Paul Osborne wrote:
tumor benign
Glad to know it, and thank Heaven. We have plenty of trouble already in
our lives without losing control of things at the cancer level. Some of
those benign tumors can be worrisome.
Paul, my dad's nephew George Cobabe says he has met your vitual self.
Apparently Al Gore will announce that he won't be in the run for
President in 2004.
Perhaps now the Dems will promote someone decent.
---
Mij Ebaboc
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
SLC Mayor Rocky Anderson just announced a new proposed plan to settle
the Main Street Plaza legal controversy. It appears that Mayor Rocky is
ready to concede that the Church should have full control of Plaza
access, and in exchange for offering this compromise, he suggests that
the Church
Stacy Smith wrote:
---
If one is not economically or politically free can they really decide
what they should or should not do? Not really, in my opinion. This is
where I may draw the line with some conservatives. Give me liberty or
give me death:!
---
Interestingly, we are able to enjoy
John W. Redelfs wrote:
---
I have some anxiety that we may soon find out who has and does not have
nukes.
---
There were some misleading news reports on this, I think. In the
headlines last Friday. Those rotten news guys, they're always trying to
increase John's anxiety. :-)
Some of the
Jon Spencer wrote:
---
I have come to the conclusion that Marc was cheated by the Pakistani
owner of a convenience store in his neck of the woods! :-)
---
Sounds like a Simpsons episode.
Come to think of it, perhaps we could draw some interesting and
instructive parallels between Homer and
The gathering at the city council meeting last night was a zoo. I got
there about 6:00. The public comment session was supposed to begin at
7:00, but the crowd had already filled up two overflow rooms and was
winding down the corridors, and there were already many hundreds of
people
Day of Heckling on Plaza Thrusts Issues to Forefront
The scene earlier today on the Main Street plaza included street
preachers carrying placards and screaming their beliefs, sometimes
through bullhorns.
December 17, 2002
KSL News Specialist Carole Mikita reporting
Salt Lake City Council
I think it is not doctrinal to assert that Heavenly Father is subject
to natural law in the same sense that we are. To put it thus
incorrectly reverses the attribution of cause.
God decreed the laws of the universe, and sustains them by the word of
His power--the laws are subordinate to Him.
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
---
God's word defines natural law. He is the master, not the subject.
That is why he is called the Lawgiver.
---
Yes, I thought that was a significant point to emphasize.
Perhaps this is just another one of those silly, figurative notions that
unenlightened
John W. Redelfs wrote:
---
The idea that he made all the laws included those by which he progressed
to become a God is a Protestant idea. It is akin to creating something
from nothing, which of course is impossible even for God.
---
One of the problems we encounter in discussing such ideas is
George Cobabe wrote:
---
Then the discussion might be more profitable if we separated our
existing universe fromwell, whatever it is that transcends it.
We must do so to even begin to understand, or for that matter argue
over, such matters. It is the only thing that we are concerned with
Carob is a unique substance that has an appearance similar to cocoa. It
comes from the Ceratonia siliqua, an evergreen tree native to the
Eastern Mediterranean area. This relatively wild tree, which grows up to
50 feet tall, bears fruit at the age of six to eight years with a
greater abundance
Another interesting reference to this question--
God is the author of law, not its creation or its servant. All light and
all law emanate from him (see DC 88:13). Indeed, all kingdoms have a
law given; and there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the
which there is no kingdom; and
John,
I'm honestly not trying to promote Protestant doctrine. But there are
obviously some issues here that merit further consideration.
I am sure you realize that we are not necessarily covering new ground in
any of our discussions on this list. I have little doubt that the
people of this
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