[Zope3-dev] Performance regression test, (was: [Zope3-checkins] ... added a pystone performance unit tester)
Jim Fulton wrote: [cut] Your enhancements to check run time look very interesting, but I think they ought to be proposed and discussed. Please revert this change and then lets discuss what we want. Done. So, the main idea of the work we did last week on this topic was to provide an easy tool to measure the performance of low-level code. By low-level i mean: this is not intented to be some benchmarking tool or whatsoever, it's just a anti-regression tool, that can be used to mark *critical* parts of a zope application in the tests. When someone changes a zope app code, he is pretty confident on the result because there's a full load of unit/functionnal tests backing him. But he *almost* never asks himself if the code that he added didn't lower down the performance of the app. Maybe because it's not the front matter in web apps needs that in can be industrial apps sometime, but when scalability is needed it can become quite important. anyway, the idea we had was to provide a decorator than can be used in tests to mark a particular test, saying : hey, that's a hot spot, let's mark it to prevent speed regression in the future, it takes 5 kPystone right now, it shouldn't go over 6kPs Tarek ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope3 trunk degenerating on Windows
Hi Tim, On Monday 10 October 2005 19:08, Tim Peters wrote: [Tim Peters] I'll attach a (long) list of current errors. Most seem related to twisted, and may ultimately stem from that there is no fcntl module on Windows. Still true. I have just seen a check in on Twisted from James Knight which should fix fcntl import problem in twisted.web2.channel.cgi I have also being in contact with Itamar Shtull-Trauring from the Twisted community and he said we found an import problem on the twisted.web2.channel.cgi module and the parts we care about in twisted.web2 should work fine (on windows) once this problem is fixed. I hope to be able to get hold of a Windows box later today just to run a few tests but that won't be until 7/8 tonight (11am local time now). Michael ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] test.py renamed
On Sunday 09 October 2005 11:07, Jim Fulton wrote: That changes a bit the way tests are to be called. This is a fairly significant change to make without a proposal. Right. I would expect that there are a number of documentation resources that would need to change as well. Darn, I did not think about that. A better change would be to arrange for the root directory to be excluded from the Python path. In general, any script we use should, by default, exclude its directory from sys.path. Yep. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Martijn Faassen schrieb: Hi there, I'm very curious to see what work was done on a Zope 3 website at the Neckar sprint. Can someone send a report to the list? The plan has been to migrate all the Wiki pages from zope.org to zope3.org. The new thing is, that Wikipages should be editable with a WYSIWYG editor after the migration. I hope that there will be an option to choose structured text too. More infos in the README: http://svn.zope.org/zope3org/trunk/src/wikification/README.txt?view=markup Tonico ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] zope3 website report?
Uwe Oestermeier wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: I'm very curious to see what work was done on a Zope 3 website at the Neckar sprint. Can someone send a report to the list? We (Dominik Huber, Tonico Strasser, Gregoire Weber, and I) set up a zope3org package (http://svn.zope.org/zope3org/) with the following parts: wikification - A wiki view that transforms sets of HTML documents within in a nested folder structure into a Wiki. We defined no special content types. We decided to use only files and folders to be able to work via ftp, fssync etc. as much as possible. comment - A simple comment implementation that stores list of comments in an object's annotations. kupusupport - An integration of Kupu into Zope3. Defines an editor that can be selected from the ZMI menu. We started that from an older version of the IsarSprint and still have to do some work to support the current 1.3.1 version of Kupu. importer - a wget like tool that allows to import existing Wiki pages or other HTML documents from any URL. The pages can be post- processed to extract the content and strip out navigation, etc. This tool Cool stuff! Thanks for this report! I see mostly technical stuff was done. Especially things like comment and kupusupport should also be useful in completely different projects. Has work been done on a reasonably slick layout for the website as well or is this still planned? Has an analysis been done what the goals are of this new site? The Zope 3 wiki has traditionally been mostly a developer's tools to handle proposals and the like. It's also functioned as documentation, but in my opinion wasn't very accessible, and positively intimidating for beginners. As goals for the site, at least the top level of it, I'd suggest marketing, and developer marketing primarily. We need to put across that Zope 3 is powerful, cool, easy, extensible, and built on the vast amount of experience with web application development that we have as the Zope community. Developer marketing also means that we need to demonstrate all the things Zope 3 can do for you, i.e. features. It also means we need to make clear there's a strong community, and thus we need to show how to get involved, with mailing lists, irc channels, svn repositories, and the like. Developer marketing also means there needs to be quick access to easy to follow tutorials, and access to reference material when needed. We need to make the learning curve easier. In this sense the Zope 3 site will also have the goal of being tutorial and reference. Another goal of the site could be to replace the current wiki, i.e. a tool used by Zope 3 developers to talk about proposals, designs, etc. This should however be carefully split off into a special section that people won't accidentally stumble into. We don't want a newbie to browse around and unexpectly run into a half finished proposal on ContainerAdapterSecurityProxyFactoryRegistration. :) Anyway, I'm volunteering to help out with the text and basic organization of this site. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Tonico Strasser wrote: Martijn Faassen schrieb: Hi there, I'm very curious to see what work was done on a Zope 3 website at the Neckar sprint. Can someone send a report to the list? The plan has been to migrate all the Wiki pages from zope.org to zope3.org. Interesting, and a bit sad to hear that plans seem to have been settled now to host Zope 3 on its own site. We nowadays require a proposal for essential code changes to Zope 3, but when it comes to community things like the hosting of Zope 3, there is not only no proposal but not even a heads-up. We are actually informed about what's going on while it's going on; at least the NeckarSprint page didn't say anything about work on zope3.org. Here's my 2 cents, even if I might be too late (but hey, when should I have brought this up?): I think it's a *bad* idea to host Zope 3 on its own site, because: a) It will be yet another systems we need maintainance volunteers for. As it seems we don't even have enough for the current zope.org right now. If we had more volunteers with more time on their hands, they would have already been on the matter and the dog-slow system would have been improved a long time ago (note that I'm not necessarily saying replaced). A zope3.org will eventually need some caching, it will eventually need user management, etc. We already have a human resource problem on the development side, what makes everyone think we won't have it on the maintainance side? b) It is exactly the opposite of what we've been trying to do for the last couple of months: convergence, not divergence! If we want Zope 3 and its Component Architecture to be recognized by people, it needs to be a first class citizen on zope.org, not some separate site. Why? Because Zope 2 will soon incorporate lots of Zope 3 technology (it already does incorporate some), making it all look like two separate worlds is far from reality. In conclusion, I'm a bit disappointed by the flow of information and the lack of communication in this matter. I'm not at all happy about the solution, as I've stated above. The new thing is, that Wikipages should be editable with a WYSIWYG editor after the migration. I hope that there will be an option to choose structured text too. Putting WYSIWYG integration into a list of first-class todo items seems like wrong prioritization to me (I'd rather have a stable backend first), but I'm not going to get into that now. It seems that community input wasn't wanted (and I would love to be proven wrong on that)... Philipp ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
I couldn't disagree more. Moving Zope3 off of Zope.org is a big mistake. Zope 3 is part of Zope is it not? Shouldn't it be on that website? It just seems silly and short-sighted to try to break out one from the other, when all Zopes (1/2/3..10/11/12) belong on that one website. Wasn't that the point of moving CMF back from cmf.zope.org? Why not spend the time and energy making Zope.org a better place than just moving it off to yet another under-developed and utilized website? My $.03 Jake -- http://www.ZopeZone.com Benji York said: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: b) It is exactly the opposite of what we've been trying to do for the last couple of months: convergence, not divergence! I think that differentiating Zope 3 from Zope 2 is a good thing. If we want Zope 3 and its Component Architecture to be recognized by people, it needs to be a first class citizen on zope.org, not some separate site. Nothing says that zope3.org can't be prominently displayed on zope.org. Why? Because Zope 2 will soon incorporate lots of Zope 3 technology (it already does incorporate some), I would posit that there are *many* non-Zope 2 users, and that is a group we need to attract. Too closely associating Zope 2 and Zope 3 will only inhibit that. making it all look like two separate worlds is far from reality. I'm more interested in promoting Zope 3 than having web site structure reflect reality. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/jake%40zopezone.com ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Benji York wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: b) It is exactly the opposite of what we've been trying to do for the last couple of months: convergence, not divergence! I think that differentiating Zope 3 from Zope 2 is a good thing. Sure. I never said that their differences shouldn't be stated. However, I see them as two corner stones in the Zope evolvement path. A third one would be the CMF whose separate site, by the way, vanished into nirvana some time ago... If you want to point out Zope 2's and Zope 3's differences, we can't have information floating around on separate sites. The top #1 questions on #zope that have to do with Zope 3 are: 1. Is Zope 3 mature enough to be developed for/with? 2. When should I use Zope 3? 3. What's the deal with Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the future? These questions are all about the differences and advantages of the two platforms, but they all have to do with the whole Zope brand. Why split all this apart? If we want Zope 3 and its Component Architecture to be recognized by people, it needs to be a first class citizen on zope.org, not some separate site. Nothing says that zope3.org can't be prominently displayed on zope.org. This makes it almost sound like a link under Zope exits :). Seriously, I'm saying that Zope 3 promotion should be accessbile right on the front page. If you mean that by prominently displayed, then I don't see why we need a separate site for that if zope.org could take that over. I don't think no one wants to prominently display Zope 2 anymore... Why? Because Zope 2 will soon incorporate lots of Zope 3 technology (it already does incorporate some), I would posit that there are *many* non-Zope 2 users, and that is a group we need to attract. Too closely associating Zope 2 and Zope 3 will only inhibit that. This is a good point. Zope 2 indeed had to experience some heavy ressentiments from the Python community. However, I don't see why Zope 3 couldn't rehabilitate Zope 2 here. Showing that we're actually willling to evolve that old beast called Zope 2 to the slick new architecture called Zope 3 is a pretty good message. making it all look like two separate worlds is far from reality. I'm more interested in promoting Zope 3 than having web site structure reflect reality. I have to take back the word reality and insert our goals: Making it look like two separate worlds is far from _our goals_. I too want to promote Zope 3, as well as Zope 3 technology inside Zope 2. I just believe that this is best done while staying under the hood of the Zope community website. Philipp ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Hey Philipp, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: [snip] Here's my 2 cents, even if I might be too late (but hey, when should I have brought this up?): I think it's a *bad* idea to host Zope 3 on its own site, because: a) It will be yet another systems we need maintainance volunteers for. As it seems we don't even have enough for the current zope.org right now. If we had more volunteers with more time on their hands, they would have already been on the matter and the dog-slow system would have been improved a long time ago (note that I'm not necessarily saying replaced). A zope3.org will eventually need some caching, it will eventually need user management, etc. We already have a human resource problem on the development side, what makes everyone think we won't have it on the maintainance side? A counterargument to this would be that volunteers to maintain the present zope.org infrastructure and content are hard to find. A leaner, meaner, separate zope3.org might find more people that want to be involved. Sorting out the content of zope.org, which has been carried around for more than half a decade, is a job I wouldn't volunteer for. Helping to write some content for a fresh new site and figuring out what fits where is something I *am* volunteering for. b) It is exactly the opposite of what we've been trying to do for the last couple of months: convergence, not divergence! If we want Zope 3 and its Component Architecture to be recognized by people, it needs to be a first class citizen on zope.org, not some separate site. Why? Because Zope 2 will soon incorporate lots of Zope 3 technology (it already does incorporate some), making it all look like two separate worlds is far from reality. As Benji said, we want to market to non-Zope 2 developers with this as well, and we can link zope.org to zope3.org. Placing some distance between Zope 3 and Zope 2 is useful in order to convince people who've been scar(r)ed by their previous Zope 2 experiences, or at least received the meme that Zope 2 is something Python programmers don't want to mix with, to take another look at Zope 3 now. Perhaps we can come up with a similar scenario as what we think is going to happen with Zope 2 and Zope 3. Zope 2 is the old, hard to maintain system here, Zope 3 the new cool system. We intend to improve Zope 2 by adding in Zope 3 pieces, and eventually start replacing parts of it with Zope 3 technology. In the foggy future, Zope 2 and Zope 3 become profiles of the same Zope system, until the differences have gone away. zope3.org could be to zope.org what Zope 3 is to Zope 2. We could cherrypick the content in zope.org that is about Zope 3 and want to have in the new site. Eventually we may start building up a section about Zope 3 in Zope 2 as well on the new zope3.org. Over time, more and more of the useful content gets moved, until finally zope.org and zope3.org are essential the same website about Zope. At some stage we flip a switch and turn zope3.org into zope.org. I have a slight preference for something like zope3.org as compared to zope.org/zope3, as I think that makes the separation a bit clearer. Of course, zope.org/zope3 could be technologically separated from the rest of zope.org too. [snip] The new thing is, that Wikipages should be editable with a WYSIWYG editor after the migration. I hope that there will be an option to choose structured text too. Putting WYSIWYG integration into a list of first-class todo items seems like wrong prioritization to me (I'd rather have a stable backend first), but I'm not going to get into that now. It seems that community input wasn't wanted (and I would love to be proven wrong on that)... I think it's important to try to separate the content production/technology aspect of things, which the sprint apparently focused on from the actual site content aspects. From what I can see, the sprint focused on using Zope 3 technologies to build a Zope 3 site. To use Zope 3 for a Zope 3 site seems a good idea from the marketing perspective already -- we want to demonstrate we can eat our own dogfood. The idea seems to have been to use a wiki for this, something which also has a predecent within the Zope community, as well as in the open source community at large. The whole WYSIWYG HTML-edit wiki thing is a neat idea involving using HTML as the wiki markup language instead of something else. We'll just have to see how that works out. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Martijn Faassen wrote: Here's my 2 cents, even if I might be too late (but hey, when should I have brought this up?): I think it's a *bad* idea to host Zope 3 on its own site, because: a) It will be yet another systems we need maintainance volunteers for. As it seems we don't even have enough for the current zope.org right now. If we had more volunteers with more time on their hands, they would have already been on the matter and the dog-slow system would have been improved a long time ago (note that I'm not necessarily saying replaced). A zope3.org will eventually need some caching, it will eventually need user management, etc. We already have a human resource problem on the development side, what makes everyone think we won't have it on the maintainance side? A counterargument to this would be that volunteers to maintain the present zope.org infrastructure and content are hard to find. A leaner, meaner, separate zope3.org might find more people that want to be involved. True. As Benji said, we want to market to non-Zope 2 developers with this as well, and we can link zope.org to zope3.org. Placing some distance between Zope 3 and Zope 2 is useful in order to convince people who've been scar(r)ed by their previous Zope 2 experiences, or at least received the meme that Zope 2 is something Python programmers don't want to mix with, to take another look at Zope 3 now. Perhaps we can come up with a similar scenario as what we think is going to happen with Zope 2 and Zope 3. Zope 2 is the old, hard to maintain system here, Zope 3 the new cool system. We intend to improve Zope 2 by adding in Zope 3 pieces, and eventually start replacing parts of it with Zope 3 technology. In the foggy future, Zope 2 and Zope 3 become profiles of the same Zope system, until the differences have gone away. zope3.org could be to zope.org what Zope 3 is to Zope 2. We could cherrypick the content in zope.org that is about Zope 3 and want to have in the new site. Eventually we may start building up a section about Zope 3 in Zope 2 as well on the new zope3.org. Over time, more and more of the useful content gets moved, until finally zope.org and zope3.org are essential the same website about Zope. At some stage we flip a switch and turn zope3.org into zope.org. This does sound quite reasonable (and it's the first real concept about all this that I've seen laid out here...). However, I would very much tend to having a leaner, meaner zope.org fromt he beginning instead of a cherry-picked zope3.org. Cherry-picking on our side will also make the Zope brand appear weirder because stuff that will inevitably concern Zope 2 through Five will be on zope3.org while other docs (e.g. installation guide) remains on zope.org. Also, once we have a leaner, meaner zope3.org, I can already see Andreas putting Zope 2 tarballs there because the old zope.org is getting too much in his way (which it really is, and not just into his way, but also ours)... Maybe my view is just too pessimistic, but I foresee more chaos in separation than structure. I have a slight preference for something like zope3.org as compared to zope.org/zope3, as I think that makes the separation a bit clearer. Of course, zope.org/zope3 could be technologically separated from the rest of zope.org too. I'm not actually saying that Zope 3 should have it's own section of the site. I'm saying that the site should be about Zope 3 altogether. zope.org/docs should have docs about Zope 3 too, zope.org/downloads contains Zope 3 tarballs, zope.org/collector contains Zope 3 issues, zope.org/dev is be a development area for both Zope 2 and Zope 3. Some of that is already reality, actually (downloads, collector). If something would *have* to live under some directory, I think it should be Zope 2 (zope.org/zope2), not Zope 3 (zope.org/zope3). The new thing is, that Wikipages should be editable with a WYSIWYG editor after the migration. I hope that there will be an option to choose structured text too. Putting WYSIWYG integration into a list of first-class todo items seems like wrong prioritization to me (I'd rather have a stable backend first), but I'm not going to get into that now. It seems that community input wasn't wanted (and I would love to be proven wrong on that)... I think it's important to try to separate the content production/technology aspect of things, which the sprint apparently focused on from the actual site content aspects. From what I can see, the sprint focused on using Zope 3 technologies to build a Zope 3 site. To use Zope 3 for a Zope 3 site seems a good idea from the marketing perspective already -- we want to demonstrate we can eat our own dogfood. The idea seems to have been to use a wiki for this, something which also has a predecent within the Zope community, as well as in the open source community at large. Not arguing with you here. The whole WYSIWYG HTML-edit wiki thing is a neat idea
Re: [Zope3-dev] wfmc and take ownership
Roger Ineichen wrote: wfmc question Is it possible to get the particiapants where can start the next activity before workItemFinished is called on a activity? Conceivable, you could do something like this at the application level. Within the worfklow framework though, you need an activity before you can compute the participant, since participants are activity adapters. Activities aren't generated until previous activities are finished. This is necessary because the end of an activity might cause any number of other activities to be generated. Why do you want to know the participants of follow-on activties? Right now I only see the possibility to implement something like getParticipantsForTheNextActivity() in the custom workflow application and use a hard coded participant id. In general, an activity need not have *one* next activity. It could have many, or none. Jim, If I got it right, there is a new security policy comming where offers something like take ownership support. We are planning to release a securty model which has something that can be construed as ownership. The existing security model has something similar. In the existing security policy, it could be argued that you have ownership if you have the Change Permissions permission, because you can then do pretty much anything. If so, is this usefull for select a specific principals where are in a particpant group of wfmc workflows and apply the workitem to them? Hm, are you suggesting that you want a process in which certaion work items are assigned to owners? Is so, then obviously, this information could be used as a basis for that. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 03:53:23PM +0200, Martijn Faassen wrote: Perhaps we can come up with a similar scenario as what we think is going to happen with Zope 2 and Zope 3. Zope 2 is the old, hard to maintain system here, Zope 3 the new cool system. We intend to improve Zope 2 by adding in Zope 3 pieces, and eventually start replacing parts of it with Zope 3 technology. In the foggy future, Zope 2 and Zope 3 become profiles of the same Zope system, until the differences have gone away. Do you mean that the site should run Zope3? Do mature Z3 applications exist for this? -- __ Nothing is as subjective as reality Reinoud van Leeuwen[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xs4all.nl/~reinoud __ ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Debugging Zope
On Saturday 08 October 2005 07:24, Florian Lindner wrote: what tools do you use for debugging your Zope applications and/or the Zope source? Is there something more comforable (more graphical) than pdb available? I've tried eric3 but it does not work, probably due to Zope3 spawning processes. Emacs, pdb, and print statements Once you set the thread pool of Zope 3 to 1, I think WingIDE should work. But I have not tried for a very long time. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Martijn Faassen schrieb: ... Has work been done on a reasonably slick layout for the website as well or is this still planned? Don't know about plans. After a short discussion on the sprint we have agreed on starting with a very simple layout. It's not finished yet, it should contain those elements: header - Zope 3 logo - username | login | log out - search box columns first column - breadcrumbs - the content area - some actions for edit, print, history, subsbscribe, ... - a by-line - a comment section second column - a simple navtree footer - ... http://svn.zope.org/zope3org/trunk/src/wikification/browser/main_template.pt?view=markup Has an analysis been done what the goals are of this new site? Don't know. I guess no. Tonico ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Performance regression test, (was: [Zope3-checkins] ... added a pystone performance unit tester)
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 04:04, Tarek Ziadé wrote: So, the main idea of the work we did last week on this topic was to provide an easy tool to measure the performance of low-level code. Note that I really liked the idea and how it was implemented. It would be nice to get comments from other people of the topic. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re[2]: [Zope3-dev] Debugging Zope
Hello Florian, I'm using Activestate Komodo for that. It's working quite well. Well, sometimes it has glitches and it's not free. Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 4:56:25 PM, you wrote: SR On Saturday 08 October 2005 07:24, Florian Lindner wrote: what tools do you use for debugging your Zope applications and/or the Zope source? Is there something more comforable (more graphical) than pdb available? I've tried eric3 but it does not work, probably due to Zope3 spawning processes. SR Emacs, pdb, and print statements SR Once you set the thread pool of Zope 3 to 1, I think WingIDE should work. But SR I have not tried for a very long time. SR Regards, SR Stephan SR -- SR Stephan Richter SR CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) SR Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training SR ___ SR Zope3-dev mailing list SR Zope3-dev@zope.org SR Unsub: SR http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/adamg%40fw.hu -- Best regards, Adam -- Quote of the day: For though we sleep or wake, or roam, or ride, Aye fleets the time, it will no man abide. - Geoffrey Chaucer ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re[2]: [Zope3-dev] Performance regression test, (was: [Zope3-checkins] ... added a pystone performance unit tester)
Hello Stephan, +1 on that. Linux also fell in that trap not far ago that people kept adding stuff and it slowed down the system. Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 5:01:31 PM, you wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 04:04, Tarek Ziadé wrote: So, the main idea of the work we did last week on this topic was to provide an easy tool to measure the performance of low-level code. Note that I really liked the idea and how it was implemented. It would be nice to get comments from other people of the topic. Regards, Stephan -- Best regards, Adammailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Quote of the day: If moral behavior were simply following rules, we could program a computer to be moral. - Samuel P. Ginder ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Neckar Sprint summary
Hi everyone, I just finished summarizing the activities of the Neckar Sprint. You can see it here: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/NeckarSprint Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 09:36, Jake wrote: Why not spend the time and energy making Zope.org a better place than just moving it off to yet another under-developed and utilized website? zope.org has very different requirements than zope3.org. The reason we want our own system is that we need a collaboration tool that works. zope.org does not and (1) most of us have no Plone experience and (2) might not be willing to sign the agreement. Finally, it will do Zope 3 some good to have a public Web site built with it. zope.org will be very heavy. zope3.org will be very light; a simple Wiki-like site that promotes collaboration. Even marketing is out of scope right now. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 09:46, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: If you want to point out Zope 2's and Zope 3's differences, we can't have information floating around on separate sites. The top #1 questions on #zope that have to do with Zope 3 are: 1. Is Zope 3 mature enough to be developed for/with? 2. When should I use Zope 3? 3. What's the deal with Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the future? These questions are all about the differences and advantages of the two platforms, but they all have to do with the whole Zope brand. Why split all this apart? All those pages have nothing to do with the collaboration among Zope 3 developers. The primary goal of the zope3.org site will be collaboration, nothing more. Well, I *might* put releases there as well, since I am totally fed up with the ridiculous workflow on zope.org. (I am surprised Andreas has not capitulated until now!) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 09:53, Martijn Faassen wrote: From what I can see, the sprint focused on using Zope 3 technologies to build a Zope 3 site. To use Zope 3 for a Zope 3 site seems a good idea from the marketing perspective already -- we want to demonstrate we can eat our own dogfood. The idea seems to have been to use a wiki for this, something which also has a predecent within the Zope community, as well as in the open source community at large. The whole WYSIWYG HTML-edit wiki thing is a neat idea involving using HTML as the wiki markup language instead of something else. We'll just have to see how that works out. Nice summary. +1 on all accounts. The most important sentence is the last one: This is an experiment to try to develop a better collaboration/documentation site! We will see whether it works out! Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 10:23, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: The whole WYSIWYG HTML-edit wiki thing is a neat idea involving using HTML as the wiki markup language instead of something else. We'll just have to see how that works out. Yes, I just wonder whether we have to think about stuff like this at this stage. I think the lack of WYSIWYG capability is the *least* problem people have with zope.org right now... Well, technology-wise, this integration is the hardest part of the current design. Jim's wikification idea, which was implemented by Uwe and Tonico at the sprint, is really cool and effective, so the only other pieces of technology were: - WYSIWYG editor integration - Site Design and HTML implementation (Tonico has done that) - conversion tool from the Zope 3 dev Wiki to the new site (almost completed by Gregoire) Note that we are not trying anything else at this point. We will see how it goes and how much people like it and then we will see what else we can do with it. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 09:36, Jake wrote: Why not spend the time and energy making Zope.org a better place than just moving it off to yet another under-developed and utilized website? zope.org has very different requirements than zope3.org. The reason we want our own system is that we need a collaboration tool that works. So this is the goal of zope3.org? In this case I'm not interested in it as much as I thought. I thought we wanted to present zope 3 well to the outside world. I'm not particularly interested a special site for the Zope 3 proposal wiki. [snip] zope.org will be very heavy. zope3.org will be very light; a simple Wiki-like site that promotes collaboration. Even marketing is out of scope right now. Can you point me to the place where this was decided? Zope 3 is urgently in need of better marketing. Anyway, if this is indeed the plan for zope3.org, I was under a few severe misapprehensions and I hereby de-volunteer. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] zope3 website report?
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 08:57, Martijn Faassen wrote: As goals for the site, at least the top level of it, I'd suggest marketing, and developer marketing primarily. We need to put across that Zope 3 is powerful, cool, easy, extensible, and built on the vast amount of experience with web application development that we have as the Zope community. Developer marketing also means that we need to demonstrate all the things Zope 3 can do for you, i.e. features. The primary first goal was a collaboration site for us. But I think the goals you listed here should be considered as well. Developer marketing also means there needs to be quick access to easy to follow tutorials, and access to reference material when needed. We need to make the learning curve easier. In this sense the Zope 3 site will also have the goal of being tutorial and reference. Yes, I agree. Another goal of the site could be to replace the current wiki, i.e. a tool used by Zope 3 developers to talk about proposals, designs, etc. This should however be carefully split off into a special section that people won't accidentally stumble into. We don't want a newbie to browse around and unexpectly run into a half finished proposal on ContainerAdapterSecurityProxyFactoryRegistration. :) That's what wikification is for. You can simply turn it on and off as you desire. Anyway, I'm volunteering to help out with the text and basic organization of this site. Great! We have no thought much about structure at all, so if we could start another thread discussing it, that would be great! I personally have no preference. For me the current layout of the Zope 3 developer wiki is 95% to what I want. :-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 03:53:23PM +0200, Martijn Faassen wrote: Perhaps we can come up with a similar scenario as what we think is going to happen with Zope 2 and Zope 3. Zope 2 is the old, hard to maintain system here, Zope 3 the new cool system. We intend to improve Zope 2 by adding in Zope 3 pieces, and eventually start replacing parts of it with Zope 3 technology. In the foggy future, Zope 2 and Zope 3 become profiles of the same Zope system, until the differences have gone away. Do you mean that the site should run Zope3? Do mature Z3 applications exist for this? I think a site about Zope 3 should ideally run Zope 3. Since there's indeed not much mature in the way of CMS software for Zope 3, and since I've seen reasonable results reached with wiki software to manage sites about open source projects, I figured using a Z3 wiki to manage the site would be doable. Then again, the sprinters apparently have a quite different idea of what 'zope3.org' will be than myself and some others on the mailing list. Their goal seems to be to replace the component architecture wiki. This is not a very important priority to me; the wiki is only in use by a few core Zope 3 developers and in its present state is an anti-marketing tool. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 12:20, Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] zope.org will be very heavy. zope3.org will be very light; a simple Wiki-like site that promotes collaboration. Even marketing is out of scope right now. Can you point me to the place where this was decided? Zope 3 is urgently in need of better marketing. Well, Jim and I simply agreed that our communication tools have to improve. Since we cannot easily alter the technology on zope.org, we remembered having zope3.org around to play with. I think a lot of people on the list (not you specifically) have seen the project too concretely. We have not decided anything, other than an approach we would like to try. It might not work at all. We wanted to keep the goals minimal and to subjects that we understand well; and that is a collaboration tool. There is a lot of room for other experiments, content structure, suggestions, etc. All I suggest is that we try those new tools on the existing Zope 3 dev Wiki pages, since this content has to be available anyhow. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] zope3.org terminology
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 08:57, Martijn Faassen wrote: As goals for the site, at least the top level of it, I'd suggest marketing, and developer marketing primarily. We need to put across that Zope 3 is powerful, cool, easy, extensible, and built on the vast amount of experience with web application development that we have as the Zope community. Developer marketing also means that we need to demonstrate all the things Zope 3 can do for you, i.e. features. The primary first goal was a collaboration site for us. But I think the goals you listed here should be considered as well. [snip] Anyway, I'm volunteering to help out with the text and basic organization of this site. Great! We have no thought much about structure at all, so if we could start another thread discussing it, that would be great! I personally have no preference. For me the current layout of the Zope 3 developer wiki is 95% to what I want. :-) Okay, there's some confusion about this, and I should've read to this point in the thread before I started replying... I much more interested in Zope 3 (developer-level) marketing than in improving the Zope 3 developer's wiki, and think anything called 'zope3.org' should better have a good top-level set of pages that appeals to a broader audience than Zope 3 core developers. So let's not call the Zope 3 developers wiki 'zope3.org', as this is rather confusing... Let's separate some concepts here: * Zope 3 site: the new Zope 3 website with Zope 3 specific information. This could be hosted under zope3.org but is not a requirement. * dev wiki NG: New Zope 3 developer's wiki. This will be hosted under the Zope 3 site, though I'd recommend strongly against hosting it under zope3.org toplevel as that'd be bad marketing. * Zope 3 information integrated into zope.org. Probably done on a superficial level as it's rather a beast. If Zope 3 site becomes good enough we may turn around and integrate Zope 2 information *there* instead. * Wikification: software to run dev wiki NG but not only that: also to run parts of the Zope 3 website. The idea is we try to use a wiki to run the Zope 3 site, so the wiki software is broader in scop than just for the dev wiki. What happened at the sprint was mostly work on Wikification and dev wiki NG. It was *called* zope3.org but we'll now hopefully consider this a misnomer. :) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 12:20, Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] zope.org will be very heavy. zope3.org will be very light; a simple Wiki-like site that promotes collaboration. Even marketing is out of scope right now. Can you point me to the place where this was decided? Zope 3 is urgently in need of better marketing. Well, Jim and I simply agreed that our communication tools have to improve. Since we cannot easily alter the technology on zope.org, we remembered having zope3.org around to play with. Right, but I also had a chat with Jim about zope3.org at the Plone Conference and it wasn't my impression that it was just about the Zope 3 developer's wiki. Perhaps this was a misunderstanding in our conversation. I think a lot of people on the list (not you specifically) have seen the project too concretely. We have not decided anything, other than an approach we would like to try. It might not work at all. We wanted to keep the goals minimal and to subjects that we understand well; and that is a collaboration tool. There is a lot of room for other experiments, content structure, suggestions, etc. All I suggest is that we try those new tools on the existing Zope 3 dev Wiki pages, since this content has to be available anyhow. Yes, I think calling the whole project zope3.org was a bit of a misnomer which set people to think about things quite different than your intent. That this happens to quite a lot of people is a hint that it might not be an optimal name anyway; people expect to see something else when they go there than that wiki. See my reply in the thread where I try to clean up our terminology. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On 10/11/05, Philipp von Weitershausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - a ZWiki on a bare Zope 2 is set up within minutes A ZWiki as found on the current zope.org is unusable, so I'll presume you mean an up-to-date ZWiki, which I expect is much nicer. Again (and I'm saying this again with the possibility of being stamped as repitive): The last thing I need for writing proposals or posting comments on the wiki is a WYSIWYG editor. Agreed. A WYSIWYG editor doesn't help, and makes the thing more fragile. I would hope a plain text editor would still be an option, even if we get stuck with HTML as the wiki markup (another point of contention, I suspect). We've been writing STX for years, maybe reST would be nice so that the proposal posted on the wiki If we don't have reST, then we haven't made any progress. Jim said a few years ago that reST would be the standard for Zope 3 documentation, and few people have really picked up on that. That's a shame, because it's so much nicer and more predictable than STX. (It also doesn't get the indentation of code fragments wrong.) These opinions are my own, and have not been filtered through Jim. :-) -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at gmail.com Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless. --B.F. Skinner ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
Fred Drake wrote: On 10/11/05, Philipp von Weitershausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - a ZWiki on a bare Zope 2 is set up within minutes A ZWiki as found on the current zope.org is unusable, so I'll presume you mean an up-to-date ZWiki, which I expect is much nicer. Of course. Again (and I'm saying this again with the possibility of being stamped as repitive): The last thing I need for writing proposals or posting comments on the wiki is a WYSIWYG editor. Agreed. A WYSIWYG editor doesn't help, and makes the thing more fragile. I would hope a plain text editor would still be an option, even if we get stuck with HTML as the wiki markup (another point of contention, I suspect). We've been writing STX for years, maybe reST would be nice so that the proposal posted on the wiki If we don't have reST, then we haven't made any progress. Jim said a few years ago that reST would be the standard for Zope 3 documentation, and few people have really picked up on that. That's a shame, because it's so much nicer and more predictable than STX. (It also doesn't get the indentation of code fragments wrong.) These opinions are my own, and have not been filtered through Jim. :-) I love reST just as much as you do. Fortunately, ZWiki has been supporting reST for a long time now, so no worries there. I agree that an improved development home without reST support isn't improved at all. Btw, I think that Zope 3 is doing pretty well wrt reST (not counting the wiki pages for now). The only reST-ish but not fully reST-like file that I can think of is CHANGES.txt. But I'm not going to reindent that sucker... ;) Philipp ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 12:41, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: If anyone here really needs WYSIWYG, please make a point, but I doubt that there will be one... It's a top priority for Jim. Uwe and I agreed we would prefer ReST. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: SVN: Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ftests/testdoc.py Fixed bug from Philipp. Are you working on Windoze?
Stephan Richter wrote:
Log message for revision 39056:
Fixed bug from Philipp. Are you working on Windoze?
Now I see what you meant. Thanks... (I'm on MacOSX which is using HFS+,
another case-capable but -ignorant filesystem)
Changed:
U Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ftests/testdoc.py
-=-
Modified: Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ftests/testdoc.py
===
--- Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ftests/testdoc.py2005-10-11
17:20:57 UTC (rev 39055)
+++ Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ftests/testdoc.py2005-10-11
17:21:08 UTC (rev 39056)
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@
def test_suite():
flags = doctest.NORMALIZE_WHITESPACE | doctest.ELLIPSIS
-readme = FunctionalDocFileSuite('../Readme.txt', optionflags=flags)
+readme = FunctionalDocFileSuite('../README.txt', optionflags=flags)
wire = FunctionalDocFileSuite('../over_the_wire.txt', optionflags=flags)
wire.level = 2
return unittest.TestSuite((readme, wire))
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[Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughts that got me thinking)
I wanted to post something here last night about these conversations I've been having in email with Ben Bangert, whose has the weblog http://www.groovie.org/ and has written tools like Routes http://routes.groovie.org/ - a tool for people who don't have the benefit of nice zope.publisher style URLs to make (and regenerate) nice URLs :) These are some comments he made specifically about finding Zope 3 information. They may seem a bit crude, but he seems genuinely frustrated. Now - I'll add that I'm impressed with tools like apidoc, the books, and all of that, but if you compare the Zope 3 wiki front page with that of http://www.rubyonrails.com/ and http://www.turbogears.org/ you'll see that there's a big difference. And you know that I personally have a big distaste for Wikis. Someone (I can't remember who) said recently that a good problem with Wikis is that it's hard to grok the relevance of a certain page - does it still apply to current thinking? There are a lot of historical artifacts in the Zope 3 development wiki. And I'm not saying that we should get rid of them, but it's just hard to know that PageA is a hypothetical dreamland item from three years ago and PageB right next to it is valid information and documentation for Zope 3.1. Anyways, I'll stop grand-standing on that and share Ben's thoughts. Well, after also saying that I know that we're all busy developers with real jobs, consultant gigs, research work, education, sprints, and so on, so I'm not volunteering myself nor expecting anyone else to take up the lead. But it would be great if someone did ;), and Bottlerocket may be able to help... when our current rush of jobs settles... (sigh). Alright. Ben's statements: The documentation on the Zope siteugh. That alone has driven me nuts more than I can remember. The docs are horrible, frequently outdated, only occasionally actually work, scattered around the site with little organization. The site navigation is absolutely horrible, things rarely indicate where you are, how you got there, whats next, etc. While I can see the little nav thing at the top, I'm referring more to the left sidebar that never indicates you are in that section. - A good example of why Zope3.org should be its own site. Zope 3 hardly looks ready for anyone to use if you actually go to the website. It's slotted in under the Zope Corp page, and has the appearance of a science school project. It really deserves its own site devoted to it without all the extra navigation and confusing headers leading all over. Zope 3.1 needs a colorful, enticing, approaching site with excellent documentation that actually works and is maintained. - We have doctests that actually work and are maintained, lets get some of that online! Lets get other doctest style documents online! - Zope 3.1 is really really really a great release guys. I'm very impressed with the simplification of the component architecture, with the deprecation system, and with the generations system. It shows that Zope 3.1 is a serious release. I think it's a great candidate for getting up on the rooftops and shouting about. I'd really like to give Zope 3 a try, and I keep trying to. The docs are just nauseating. They might look good or fine to someone who's used Zope for years, but to someone new they're horrid. As I mentioned, the site is laid out horribly for someone who wants to learn Zope 3. Why is the left bar saturated with links when I just want Zope 3? It's incredibly frustrating and disappointing to hear about all the cool stuff you can do in Zope 3, and not see anywhere that shows it actually being done with descriptions on how it works, etc. Where are the examples? Where are the recipies to do cool thing X? The developers I see talk about Zope are all in companies that use it, that have teams that use it, that have tons of actual knowledge that doesn't exist on the website. I really really want to give Zope 3 a spin, I have a few fairly complex projects I'd like to try out with it. How do I get started? Ben is an intelligent Python programmer who is a big fan of Myghty, but might be just the kind of target audience we want for Zope 3 right now - educated, enthusiastic, interested developers with a history of web development. We all fit that bill here, but I imagine many of us have been using Zope for years, some of us going all the way back to Bobo and Principia. And I know that for me - Zope 3 is goddamn exciting. But how does that message carry over? Personally, I really like the Z3ECM project site - z3lab.org. It has a combination of blogs, papers, demos (animations) and documentation. That's still a project in its infancy, but it's a good looking site with a variety of sources feeding into it. If there were to be a model for a Zope 3 web site, that would be it. The development wiki should still be inside of it, of course. But weblog entries like mine, like Martijn's, like Benji's, should all go into it as well (not as a planet zope type
[Zope3-dev] ZODB mount points
(I think) rather than use fssync to export multiple 'sites' in a single Zope instance, I'd much rather have multiple ZODB file storage instances -- i.e. one Data.fs for each site. I have no requirement to share points or UI across these sites -- I just want to eliminate having to run a separate processes for each site. I've run into 'mount points' for Zope 2.x and see the ZODB/Mount.py file -- but it doesn't look like any of this is in play for Zope 3. Can someone point me in the right direction? -- Garrett ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] zope3.org terminology
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 12:38, Martijn Faassen wrote: Let's separate some concepts here: * Zope 3 site: the new Zope 3 website with Zope 3 specific information. This could be hosted under zope3.org but is not a requirement. * dev wiki NG: New Zope 3 developer's wiki. This will be hosted under the Zope 3 site, though I'd recommend strongly against hosting it under zope3.org toplevel as that'd be bad marketing. * Zope 3 information integrated into zope.org. Probably done on a superficial level as it's rather a beast. If Zope 3 site becomes good enough we may turn around and integrate Zope 2 information *there* instead. * Wikification: software to run dev wiki NG but not only that: also to run parts of the Zope 3 website. The idea is we try to use a wiki to run the Zope 3 site, so the wiki software is broader in scop than just for the dev wiki. What happened at the sprint was mostly work on Wikification and dev wiki NG. It was *called* zope3.org but we'll now hopefully consider this a misnomer. :) +1 on all definitions and the comment. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughts that got me thinking)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeff Shell wrote: I wanted to post something here last night about these conversations I've been having in email with Ben Bangert, whose has the weblog http://www.groovie.org/ and has written tools like Routes http://routes.groovie.org/ - a tool for people who don't have the benefit of nice zope.publisher style URLs to make (and regenerate) nice URLs :) These are some comments he made specifically about finding Zope 3 information. They may seem a bit crude, but he seems genuinely frustrated. Now - I'll add that I'm impressed with tools like apidoc, the books, and all of that, but if you compare the Zope 3 wiki front page with that of http://www.rubyonrails.com/ and http://www.turbogears.org/ you'll see that there's a big difference. And you know that I personally have a big distaste for Wikis. Someone (I can't remember who) said recently that a good problem with Wikis is that it's hard to grok the relevance of a certain page - does it still apply to current thinking? There are a lot of historical artifacts in the Zope 3 development wiki. And I'm not saying that we should get rid of them, but it's just hard to know that PageA is a hypothetical dreamland item from three years ago and PageB right next to it is valid information and documentation for Zope 3.1. Anyways, I'll stop grand-standing on that and share Ben's thoughts. Well, after also saying that I know that we're all busy developers with real jobs, consultant gigs, research work, education, sprints, and so on, so I'm not volunteering myself nor expecting anyone else to take up the lead. But it would be great if someone did ;), and Bottlerocket may be able to help... when our current rush of jobs settles... (sigh). Alright. Ben's statements: The documentation on the Zope siteugh. That alone has driven me nuts more than I can remember. The docs are horrible, frequently outdated, only occasionally actually work, scattered around the site with little organization. The site navigation is absolutely horrible, things rarely indicate where you are, how you got there, whats next, etc. While I can see the little nav thing at the top, I'm referring more to the left sidebar that never indicates you are in that section. - A good example of why Zope3.org should be its own site. Zope 3 hardly looks ready for anyone to use if you actually go to the website. It's slotted in under the Zope Corp page, and has the appearance of a science school project. It really deserves its own site devoted to it without all the extra navigation and confusing headers leading all over. Zope 3.1 needs a colorful, enticing, approaching site with excellent documentation that actually works and is maintained. - We have doctests that actually work and are maintained, lets get some of that online! Lets get other doctest style documents online! - Zope 3.1 is really really really a great release guys. I'm very impressed with the simplification of the component architecture, with the deprecation system, and with the generations system. It shows that Zope 3.1 is a serious release. I think it's a great candidate for getting up on the rooftops and shouting about. I'd really like to give Zope 3 a try, and I keep trying to. The docs are just nauseating. They might look good or fine to someone who's used Zope for years, but to someone new they're horrid. As I mentioned, the site is laid out horribly for someone who wants to learn Zope 3. Why is the left bar saturated with links when I just want Zope 3? It's incredibly frustrating and disappointing to hear about all the cool stuff you can do in Zope 3, and not see anywhere that shows it actually being done with descriptions on how it works, etc. Where are the examples? Where are the recipies to do cool thing X? The developers I see talk about Zope are all in companies that use it, that have teams that use it, that have tons of actual knowledge that doesn't exist on the website. I really really want to give Zope 3 a spin, I have a few fairly complex projects I'd like to try out with it. How do I get started? Ben is an intelligent Python programmer who is a big fan of Myghty, but might be just the kind of target audience we want for Zope 3 right now - educated, enthusiastic, interested developers with a history of web development. We all fit that bill here, but I imagine many of us have been using Zope for years, some of us going all the way back to Bobo and Principia. And I know that for me - Zope 3 is goddamn exciting. But how does that message carry over? Personally, I really like the Z3ECM project site - z3lab.org. It has a combination of blogs, papers, demos (animations) and documentation. That's still a project in its infancy, but it's a good looking site with a variety of sources feeding into it. If there were to be a model for a Zope 3 web site, that would be it. The development wiki
Re: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughts that got me thinking)
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote: I'd really like to give Zope 3 a try, and I keep trying to. The docs are just nauseating. They might look good or fine to someone who's used Zope for years, but to someone new they're horrid. As I mentioned, the site is laid out horribly for someone who wants to learn Zope 3. Why is the left bar saturated with links when I just want Zope 3? It's incredibly frustrating and disappointing to hear about all the cool stuff you can do in Zope 3, and not see anywhere that shows it actually being done with descriptions on how it works, etc. Where are the examples? Where are the recipies to do cool thing X? The developers I see talk about Zope are all in companies that use it, that have teams that use it, that have tons of actual knowledge that doesn't exist on the website. I really really want to give Zope 3 a spin, I have a few fairly complex projects I'd like to try out with it. How do I get started? I would say, buy the books. It is too hard to keep documentation up to date, if you do not get paid. The alternative are doctests of course, which we have available as mentioned in my previous mail. Again, I think it is a lack of manpower, my own included. I would love to update the Web site to the version of my book that has actually been printed, but I just do not have time. All it needs is someone to merge the stupid DOC files to the TeX master documents and it would be online. Note that I already put them in a zope.org-based repo, so anyone can work on that task. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughts that got me thinking)
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote: Personally, I really like the Z3ECM project site - z3lab.org. It has a combination of blogs, papers, demos (animations) and documentation. That's still a project in its infancy, but it's a good looking site with a variety of sources feeding into it. If there were to be a model for a Zope 3 web site, that would be it. I have followed the mailing list the last months and the site a little bit, and I still do not know what the project is really working on at the moment. I know that Roger helped developing a high-level workflow engine atop WfMC and Jean-MARC works on CPS skins (why CPS skins, if there is no CPS for Zope 3), but that's pretty much it. The development wiki should still be inside of it, of course. But weblog entries like mine, like Martijn's, like Benji's, should all go into it as well (not as a planet zope type stream, but more dedicated so it's known that relevant information shows up). I agree. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughts that got me thinking)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote: Personally, I really like the Z3ECM project site - z3lab.org. It has a combination of blogs, papers, demos (animations) and documentation. That's still a project in its infancy, but it's a good looking site with a variety of sources feeding into it. If there were to be a model for a Zope 3 web site, that would be it. I have followed the mailing list the last months and the site a little bit, and I still do not know what the project is really working on at the moment. I know that Roger helped developing a high-level workflow engine atop WfMC and Jean-MARC works on CPS skins (why CPS skins, if there is no CPS for Zope 3), but that's pretty much it. For the moment, - cpsskins - xpdl / wfmc engine integration. - XML Schema and XForms - Zope3 benchs - etc... You may check the Z3lab repo. The main problem we are having is the Zope Foundation pending status that prevents *some* people from getting involved for various raisons... Feel free to ask more questions on the z3lab list if some things are not clear. J. - -- Julien Anguenot | Nuxeo RD (Paris, France) CPS Platform : http://www.cps-project.org Zope3 / ECM : http://www.z3lab.org mail: anguenot at nuxeo.com; tel: +33 (0) 6 72 57 57 66 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDTAAiGhoG8MxZ/pIRAsQbAJ95UJBcg0uVZIeYnduXjWz9kdjpywCfXCL6 0dd6vj5zf9iRA6sxxafDF9c= =Nh/k -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
For reference, http://zopewiki.org is an up-to-date zope 2 zwiki (see joyful.com for others), with mail-out/mail-in/external editor etc. enabled. If you haven't checked it recently, please do check the new organization by audience (down the left of the front page). I did a html-only zwiki demo for Jim which may have helped spark some ideas. I'm undecided on moving to straight html; +1 on trying it, for sure. Edits to large pages should be faster - no need to parse stx/rst. I'm not a huge fan of reST as it is not very forgiving and it is just obscure in places (linking). (I think stx really works well, except that the indentation rules are just too unexpected for new users.) The mature zope 2 zwiki's features have a certain usability and polish which I'd miss, but I'm really looking forward to checking out the new zope 3-based site/prototype/experiment. It's always good to see alternatives running in the real world and see what works and what doesn't. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughts that got me thinking)
On 10/11/05, Stephan Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote: I'd really like to give Zope 3 a try, and I keep trying to. The docs are just nauseating. They might look good or fine to someone who's used Zope for years, but to someone new they're horrid. As I mentioned, the site is laid out horribly for someone who wants to learn Zope 3. Why is the left bar saturated with links when I just want Zope 3? It's incredibly frustrating and disappointing to hear about all the cool stuff you can do in Zope 3, and not see anywhere that shows it actually being done with descriptions on how it works, etc. Where are the examples? Where are the recipies to do cool thing X? The developers I see talk about Zope are all in companies that use it, that have teams that use it, that have tons of actual knowledge that doesn't exist on the website. I really really want to give Zope 3 a spin, I have a few fairly complex projects I'd like to try out with it. How do I get started? I would say, buy the books. It is too hard to keep documentation up to date, if you do not get paid. The alternative are doctests of course, which we have available as mentioned in my previous mail. Again, I think it is a lack of manpower, my own included. I would love to update the Web site to the version of my book that has actually been printed, but I just do not have time. All it needs is someone to merge the stupid DOC files to the TeX master documents and it would be online. Note that I already put them in a zope.org-based repo, so anyone can work on that task. That was my response to him. But for people evaluating Zope 3, or just starting out and not knowing whether it's a worthwhile technology to continue with, buying a book is probably a non-starter. Some good quick starts and recipes would help there. I don't think that the type of documentation that is in a book should be on the web site and maintained constantly. It's too big and too hard, a fact I'm sure you're aware of. The API Doc tool, the books, are all useful things to have once you've really committed to a project. But getting people that far is where zope3.org or maybe zope3rocks.com or something - anything! - would be useful. Instead of trying to update reams of documentation with new features in Zope 3.2, one could post a document like Zope 3.2 - Introducing zope.formlib or Zope 3.2 - deprecated functions Because, for example, I see the warning about using 'getView - use getMultiAdapter instead', but there's no explanation of how a getView(...) call should be translated into a getMultiAdapter call.. One can figure it out, but it's a couple of lines that could be in a document that many of us here can write.. I just don't want it lost in the desert sands of the wiki. I can find proposals about simplifying the component architecture, but there's no final document about what that simplification really produced and how it affects me. The deprecation machinery is great at telling me about these things (again - I think it's a great feature), but oh man - I think any major architecture like Zope 3 that gets *simpler* in a new version is something to sing about. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughts that got me thinking)
On 10/11/05, Stephan Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote: Personally, I really like the Z3ECM project site - z3lab.org. It has a combination of blogs, papers, demos (animations) and documentation. That's still a project in its infancy, but it's a good looking site with a variety of sources feeding into it. If there were to be a model for a Zope 3 web site, that would be it. I have followed the mailing list the last months and the site a little bit, and I still do not know what the project is really working on at the moment. I know that Roger helped developing a high-level workflow engine atop WfMC and Jean-MARC works on CPS skins (why CPS skins, if there is no CPS for Zope 3), but that's pretty much it. Specifics about the Z3ECM project aside, it's just a nice site in my opinion. The front page layout - 'Latest News' and 'Spotlight Information' on top, the list of documentation updates, blog posts, documents and white papers on the side, the explanatory text further down - it's great. It's not super flashy, but it gets information across and has the feel of freshest information on top and avoids the feel of lots and lots of new and old information all over the place that Zope.org has (which stems from Zope.org's noble efforts as a community site which has built up a lot of data over the years, which is why I think a good Zope 3 marketing / information site should be more 'invite-only' in regards to publishing information, at least initially). ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Deactivate the FTP server
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi there, The latest changes on the Zope3 trunk activate back the PTP server by default within the zope.conf files. I deactivated it by default weeks ago under global agreement. Can I deactivate it back on trunk ? J. - -- Julien Anguenot | Nuxeo RD (Paris, France) CPS Platform : http://www.cps-project.org Zope3 / ECM : http://www.z3lab.org mail: anguenot at nuxeo.com; tel: +33 (0) 6 72 57 57 66 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDTAavGhoG8MxZ/pIRAlRxAJ4zX/M9VzrlUiSpyKFdNhm6HuyknACdFX7+ EpfD/k2JWM/pecnB4+yBxL8= =vHK7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope3 trunk degenerating on Windows
Hi Tim, On Tuesday 11 October 2005 17:31, Tim Peters wrote: [Michael Kerrin] I have just seen a check in on Twisted from James Knight which should fix fcntl import problem in twisted.web2.channel.cgi I have also being in contact with Itamar Shtull-Trauring from the Twisted community and he said we found an import problem on the twisted.web2.channel.cgi module and the parts we care about in twisted.web2 should work fine (on windows) once this problem is fixed. I hope to be able to get hold of a Windows box later today just to run a few tests but that won't be until 7/8 tonight (11am local time now). Thank you for following up! I don't have experience with Twisted, so don't know what to try. If you can point me at a patchset, happy to try it on Windows any time. AFAICT, the Twisted-related failures were the only ones remaining on Windows when I left off yesterday. I have just changed the svn:external for Twisted to a more stable 2.1 branch which should contain the fix for the Windows problem you reported. I still haven't checked Zope on windows yet because of a problem in the with FTP but I have being assured that it will run. I will check the buildbot link you sent in the morning and see what the status is then, fingers crossed. Michael ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope3 website report?
On 10/11/05, Simon Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS - I believe you can predict a site's and its project's success based on whether it f*ks^H^H^H shrinks the fonts. Seriously. :) php.net, drupal.org, gnome.org, debian.org leave the font alone. You may be on to something. :-) New theory: zope.org is slow because its compressing all the fonts on everyone's computers. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at gmail.com Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless. --B.F. Skinner ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope3 trunk degenerating on Windows
[Michael Kerrin]
I have just changed the svn:external for Twisted to a more stable 2.1 branch
which should contain the fix for the Windows problem you reported. I still
haven't checked Zope on windows yet because of a problem in the with FTP but
I have being assured that it will run.
I will check the buildbot link you sent in the morning and see what the status
is then, fingers crossed.
The buildbot already reported successful test runs on Linux. The
buildbot Windows machine is still useless (still dying in its svn
step).
The unit tests on my Windows box are now down to three related errors:
Error in test testRead (zope.publisher.tests.test_http.HTTPInputStreamTests)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File C:\Python24\lib\unittest.py, line 260, in run
testMethod()
File C:\Code\Zope3\src\zope\publisher\tests\test_http.py, line 72,
in testRead
output += self.stream.read()
File C:\Code\Zope3\src\zope\publisher\http.py, line 192, in read
self.cacheStream.write(data)
IOError: (0, 'Error')
Error in test testReadLine (zope.publisher.tests.test_http.HTTPInputStreamTests)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File C:\Python24\lib\unittest.py, line 260, in run
testMethod()
File C:\Code\Zope3\src\zope\publisher\tests\test_http.py, line 79,
in testReadLine
output += self.stream.readline()
File C:\Code\Zope3\src\zope\publisher\http.py, line 197, in readline
self.cacheStream.write(data)
IOError: (0, 'Error')
Error in test testReadLines
(zope.publisher.tests.test_http.HTTPInputStreamTests)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File C:\Python24\lib\unittest.py, line 260, in run
testMethod()
File C:\Code\Zope3\src\zope\publisher\tests\test_http.py, line 90,
in testReadLines
output += ''.join(self.stream.readlines())
File C:\Code\Zope3\src\zope\publisher\http.py, line 202, in readlines
self.cacheStream.write(''.join(data))
IOError: (0, 'Error')
I believe these are errors in Zope3 unrelated to Twisted (although the
broken code was checked in as part of Merged the zope3-twisted-merge
branch 38950:38964). This is testRead() and the function before it:
def getCacheStreamValue(self):
self.stream.cacheStream.seek(0)
return self.stream.cacheStream.read()
def testRead(self):
output = ''
self.assertEqual(output, self.getCacheStreamValue())
output += self.stream.read(5)
self.assertEqual(output, self.getCacheStreamValue())
output += self.stream.read()
self.assertEqual(output, self.getCacheStreamValue())
self.assertEqual(data, self.getCacheStreamValue())
So the first assertEqual(), as a side effect, seeks to position 0 in
cacheStream then reads the whole thing. That part of the test passes.
Next it tries doing
self.stream.read(5)
But the implementation of stream.read is here:
def read(self, size=-1):
data = self.stream.read(size)
self.cacheStream.write(data)
return data
and, as a side effect, that _writes_ to cacheStream. This is an
illegal sequence of operations: in a file opened for update, all
behavior is undefined if a read is followed by a write (or vice versa)
without an intervening file-positioning operation (typically a
seek()).
The Windows implementation of C stdio happens to blow up in this case.
That's fine by the C standard. It's also fine by the standard if it
always returned an empty string, or the King James Bible, or wiped
Linux from the machine and silently upgraded you to Windows wink. I
think I know how to fix it, so enough for now.
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RE: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughtsthat got me thinking)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Shell Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:27 AM To: Stephan Richter Cc: zope3-dev@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider's thoughtsthat got me thinking) On 10/11/05, Stephan Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote: I'd really like to give Zope 3 a try, and I keep trying to. The docs are just nauseating. They might look good or fine to someone who's used Zope for years, but to someone new they're horrid. As I mentioned, the site is laid out horribly for someone who wants to learn Zope 3. Why is the left bar saturated with links when I just want Zope 3? It's incredibly frustrating and disappointing to hear about all the cool stuff you can do in Zope 3, and not see anywhere that shows it actually being done with descriptions on how it works, etc. Where are the examples? Where are the recipies to do cool thing X? The developers I see talk about Zope are all in companies that use it, that have teams that use it, that have tons of actual knowledge that doesn't exist on the website. I really really want to give Zope 3 a spin, I have a few fairly complex projects I'd like to try out with it. How do I get started? I would say, buy the books. It is too hard to keep documentation up to date, if you do not get paid. The alternative are doctests of course, which we have available as mentioned in my previous mail. Again, I think it is a lack of manpower, my own included. I would love to update the Web site to the version of my book that has actually been printed, but I just do not have time. All it needs is someone to merge the stupid DOC files to the TeX master documents and it would be online. Note that I already put them in a zope.org-based repo, so anyone can work on that task. That was my response to him. But for people evaluating Zope 3, or just starting out and not knowing whether it's a worthwhile technology to continue with, buying a book is probably a non-starter. Some good quick starts and recipes would help there. I don't think that the type of documentation that is in a book should be on the web site and maintained constantly. It's too big and too hard, a fact I'm sure you're aware of. The API Doc tool, the books, are all useful things to have once you've really committed to a project. But getting people that far is where zope3.org or maybe zope3rocks.com or something - anything! - would be useful. Instead of trying to update reams of documentation with new features in Zope 3.2, one could post a document like Zope 3.2 - Introducing zope.formlib or Zope 3.2 - deprecated functions Because, for example, I see the warning about using 'getView - use getMultiAdapter instead', but there's no explanation of how a getView(...) call should be translated into a getMultiAdapter call.. One can figure it out, but it's a couple of lines that could be in a document that many of us here can write.. I just don't want it lost in the desert sands of the wiki. I can find proposals about simplifying the component architecture, but there's no final document about what that simplification really produced and how it affects me. The deprecation machinery is great at telling me about these things (again - I think it's a great feature), but oh man - I think any major architecture like Zope 3 that gets *simpler* in a new version is something to sing about. For the record, Philipp's book should be here on the 13th and I started out with printing the tutorial chapters of Stephan's book. It is starting to get a bit worn, so just perhaps that will be the next book I buy. My point is not to have book length tutorials, but specific tutorials/howtos/recipes. Perhaps with vocabularies specifying tested version. I sometimes find myself confused on how to translate from doctest to an implementation within Zope. So for example, I want to find out how to use Catalogs, there would be a howto that would build a simple catalog with zcml configuration and how to get it to index and tick inside of Zope, a howto on how to program and configure a user/authentication system, and make it tick inside of Zope. Very topic specific. Maybe I'm asking for a lot. Maybe I a haven't reached ZopeZen. Maybe I haven't taken the initiative to ask for help. Just seems stuff like this is what would encourage and draw people to Zope. Anyhow, just my 2 cents. I know manpower is limited. I have offered to help, but I am not sure where I can fit in the best. Perhaps if I occasionally posted a question/topic on the list, I could compile and test the examples/suggestions given and add it to the wiki or a simple doc. Maybe that would be of help. Mats ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] unit- and functional-test failures in trunk
Hi,
the current trunk produces two unit-test and one functional-test failures
when running `make test`[0].
python: 2.4.2
gcc: 4.0.1
[0] Tracebacks:
Failure in test /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-coverage.txt
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /usr/lib/python2.4/unittest.py, line 260, in run
testMethod()
File /usr/src/zope3-3.0.93/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/doctest.py, line
2196, in runTest
raise exc_info[0], exc_info[1], exc_info[2]
DocTestFailureException: Failed doctest test for testrunner-coverage.txt
File /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-coverage.txt, line 0
--
File /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-coverage.txt, line
20, in testrunner-coverage.txt
Failed example:
testrunner.run(defaults)
Expected:
Running unit tests:
...
lines cov% module (path)
... testrunner.py)
...
Got:
Running unit tests:
Ran 192 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Running samplelayers.Layer1 tests:
Set up samplelayers.Layer1 in N.NNN seconds.
Ran 9 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Running samplelayers.Layer11 tests:
Set up samplelayers.Layer11 in N.NNN seconds.
Ran 34 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Running samplelayers.Layer111 tests:
Set up samplelayers.Layerx in N.NNN seconds.
Set up samplelayers.Layer111 in N.NNN seconds.
Ran 34 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Running samplelayers.Layer112 tests:
Tear down samplelayers.Layer111 in N.NNN seconds.
Set up samplelayers.Layer112 in N.NNN seconds.
Ran 34 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Running samplelayers.Layer12 tests:
Tear down samplelayers.Layer112 in N.NNN seconds.
Tear down samplelayers.Layerx in N.NNN seconds.
Tear down samplelayers.Layer11 in N.NNN seconds.
Set up samplelayers.Layer12 in N.NNN seconds.
Ran 34 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Running samplelayers.Layer121 tests:
Set up samplelayers.Layer121 in N.NNN seconds.
Ran 34 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Running samplelayers.Layer122 tests:
Tear down samplelayers.Layer121 in N.NNN seconds.
Set up samplelayers.Layer122 in N.NNN seconds.
Ran 34 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in N.NNN seconds.
Tearing down left over layers:
Tear down samplelayers.Layer122 in N.NNN seconds.
Tear down samplelayers.Layer12 in N.NNN seconds.
Tear down samplelayers.Layer1 in N.NNN seconds.
Total: 405 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors
False
--
File /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-coverage.txt, line
30, in testrunner-coverage.txt
Failed example:
os.path.exists('coverage_dir')
Expected:
True
Got:
False
--
File /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-coverage.txt, line
32, in testrunner-coverage.txt
Failed example:
os.listdir('coverage_dir')
Exception raised:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /usr/src/zope3-3.0.93/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/doctest.py,
line 1256, in __run
# If the example executed without raising any exceptions,
File doctest testrunner-coverage.txt[7], line 1, in ?
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'coverage_dir'
--
File /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-coverage.txt, line
38, in testrunner-coverage.txt
Failed example:
shutil.rmtree('coverage_dir')
Exception raised:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /usr/src/zope3-3.0.93/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/doctest.py,
line 1256, in __run
# If the example executed without raising any exceptions,
File doctest testrunner-coverage.txt[9], line 1, in ?
File /usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py, line 155, in rmtree
onerror(os.listdir, path, sys.exc_info())
File /usr/lib/python2.4/shutil.py, line 153, in rmtree
names = os.listdir(path)
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'coverage_dir'
.
Failure in test /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-edge-cases.txt
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /usr/lib/python2.4/unittest.py, line 260, in run
testMethod()
File /usr/src/zope3-3.0.93/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/doctest.py, line
2196, in runTest
raise exc_info[0], exc_info[1], exc_info[2]
DocTestFailureException: Failed doctest test for testrunner-edge-cases.txt
File /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-edge-cases.txt, line 0
--
File /usr/src/zope3-svn/src/zope/testing/testrunner-edge-cases.txt, line
83, in testrunner-edge-cases.txt
Failed example:
Re: [Zope3-dev] fssync and export/import for Zope 3
Andreas Jung said: Export/import is likely much more important than being able to edit content on the filesystem. Writing simple mechanisms for exporting/importing schema-based content to XML/from XML should not be so hard. Yeah. And sometimes XML just gets in the way - namely, when you are dealing with blobs. The issue of human-readable exported data is orthogonal to the issue of backing up or transporting your data. Certainly worthwhile, but don't underestimate the value of plain old pickles. I don't know if anybody actually uses the XML option for exporting / importing Zope 2 data - I always use the default pickle format. It works fine and is more efficient. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Why I posted about Zope3.org (the outsider'sthoughtsthat got me thinking)
Sorry for the indentation problem Jeff's post and mine got combined. -Original Message- snip ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] fssync and export/import for Zope 3
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES OH GOD YES! I mean. Yes! Backup/restore, and deploy. We're deploying a customers site in chunks - one section, then another, then a third. It's content that's being migrated off of Zope 2. The other developer here was complaining about having to do the third chunk on the live server. All of these chunks are well sectioned off, and import/export would be wonderful. fssync isn't in the release (we try to only use release code around here - easier to manage), and we didn't know what it meant that the code looks like it hasn't been touched in over a year - is it simple and stable enough to work with production Zope 3.1, or has it fallen behind? We didn't know this, but were thinking that now that things have settled down (somewhat), it might be nice to investigate. So - yes! This exactly mirrors a conversation we had just a couple of minutes ago. On 10/7/05, Garrett Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is anyone interested in using export/import capabilities in Zope 3? As we get more Zope 3 deployments, I think this will become an important topic. It looks like the fssync code has become only slightly stale. With a little use, this could be break-out feature for Zope 3 developers. As Jim just pointed out, there are a couple a 'visions' associated with fssync: - The export/import functionality people are used to with Zope 2 - A checkin/checkout functionality that would let someone make long-running changes to a part of a site, with the option of commiting or aborting those changes I suspect the export/import feature alone will be attractive to anyone with production servers, as it enables object-specific backup and restore. If anyone is interested in using this, let me know. I'll be looking into adding a simple command-line tool for object-specific backup/restore (i.e. export/import) and it would be helpful to have some other users, if not contributors. -- Garrett ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/eucci.group%40gmail.com ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
