subject:"\[TurboGears\] Re\: TurboGears visuals for 0.9\/1.0"


Actually, that was no joke:

http://trac.turbogears.org/turbogears/changeset/352

On 12/22/05, Jared Kuolt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ha! widgets.py deleted... am I the only one that caught that?

 :D

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Jared Kuolt


Okay, now I get it.

*looks left, turns right*

On 12/22/05, Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Actually, that was no joke:

 http://trac.turbogears.org/turbogears/changeset/352

 On 12/22/05, Jared Kuolt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Ha! widgets.py deleted... am I the only one that caught that?
 
  :D



--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Greg Dean


layout 3 has a gray band at the right that is screaming out for
*something* to happen there. I like the bottom half of layout 3, but
prefer the top half of layout 2.Kevin
One thing I really liked about Karl's designs is the the Recent Tickets
and Checkins boxes on the left side of his designs. Maybe this is what
the gray band needs. 

--greg

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread qvx


I agree. Often, other people express my thoughts better than I can do
myself :)

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Richard (koorb)


Kevin Dangoor wrote:
 layout 3 has a gray band at the right that is screaming out for
 *something* to happen there. I like the bottom half of layout 3, but
 prefer the top half of layout 2.

 Kevin

Just want to say again that where there is is blank space on my
layouts, I mostly intend for there to be content there. The sidebar on
layout-3 for instance is not meant to be just a block of grey, but
space for content - I just haven't taken the time to write any filler
copy for it.

Right now I'm more concerned with getting toward a general image and
colour that people like, before working to hard on the actual structure
of the content. There are a number of things that need to be done for a
successful redesign, among them; you need a brand: colours, text, image
conventions etc.  Some idea of a site map, so you know what content you
have to play with, then you can look at what needs to be summarised and
brought onto the home page. Not necessarily in that order and ideally
we can have people putting ideas into each aspect.

The way you should construct the site, or the grid, relies on what
information you have, and how you wish to convey it. If you don't have
a great deal to say you would have a simple layout, with emphasis on
pretty graphics and relevant imagery such as the G gear. If you have
much information that needs to be immediately available you need to be
a bit smarter and think about what's most important, what needs to go
above the fold and what goes below. What I mean is you have about 400px
to play with that every desktop resolution will likely see, as it is
our target audience is likely to have far more than that, but that's
the area you would take as being above the fold.

So you have to think about what you want in that area, are you after
drawing people in by promoting the features and pros of turbogears and
giving access to beginner, quick to follow tutorials and screencasts or
do you want to give that area to current users, fastest access to
important sections of the site. To put it another way, are you looking
for the turbogears.com home page to help increase interest and grow the
turbogears community or to be the best resource for turbogears
developers (by which I mean users) chance is that in could be both but
it's something that needs to be considered otherwise you just look
pretty - which don't help no one.

So to sum-up I have left much blank space because I think the
positioning of content is an big think in itself but I will endeavour
to put some copy in to give it more clarity.

Also I have been working on something a little different which I will
post up sooner or later.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread _max


+1 for a light layout

Richard's layout are nice, i really like layout-1 and layout-2.

I love koorb logos too
http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/big/tglogo-buttons.jpg,

Imho a Richard style layout with koorb logo (the whole thing in a
matching color scheme) is a win.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Jorge Godoy


Greg Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 One thing I really liked about Karl's designs is the the Recent Tickets and
 Checkins boxes on the left side of his designs. Maybe this is what the gray
 band needs.

An imagemap with the cogs on the bottom to redirect to TG components website
would also be nice :-)

-- 
Jorge Godoy  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Elvelind Grandin


+1 for Richards layout number 3. I think this one is wonderful.

On 22 Dec 2005 17:28:10 -0200, Jorge Godoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Greg Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  One thing I really liked about Karl's designs is the the Recent Tickets and
  Checkins boxes on the left side of his designs. Maybe this is what the gray
  band needs.

 An imagemap with the cogs on the bottom to redirect to TG components website
 would also be nice :-)

 --
 Jorge Godoy  [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--
cheers
elvelind grandin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread _max


oops i just realized it s the same person : my bad

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/22/05, Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 12/22/05, Jonathan LaCour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I would have to agree here that I think Karl's layout would be better
  for a brochure, magazine, or any medium other than a website.  Its
  just plain too crowded for the web.

 The move to blue was a good one, but the move from 2 columns to 3 was not:

It's the newspaper habits kicking in. I'll drop a column in the next
iteration. I might try out a  different grid. I usually use a grid
that's pretty close to the one Richard uses for web pages, so these
iterations are design exercises as much as they are proposals.

 Taking a look at the post-1.0 Rails site...

The rails page is a pitch to new users. Richard's page is a community
page. It doesn't do much to pitch the framework but is a page that
continues to have value after I've adopted the framework, unlike the
rails homepage.

I unsuccessfully tried to do both, which I thought I could overcome
with a clear enough visual hiearchy (I don't think the current design
is clear enough on that front). I think I'll trend toward the
community site and do less work pitching the framework.

 layout 3 has a gray band at the right that is screaming out for
 *something* to happen there. I like the bottom half of layout 3, but
 prefer the top half of layout 2.

Richard has said he didn't know what was supposed to go on the page
right after he put up 3, so both 2 and 3 aren't filled with content. I
assume he was saving the gray band in 3  and the entire bottom in 2
for future content.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Jonathan LaCour




Taking a look at the post-1.0 Rails site, you can see that it's about
as un-crowded as it gets, and yet it's pretty effective. I do think
that having a dynamic page that shows what's going on in the project
at a glance is a good thing, and I also think that screen real estate
can be used a little better to highlight special things (like the
current turbogears.org's sidebar, which is not always used to
full-effect).


I agree that a dynamic page to show some current goings-on is very  
useful, but I am not sure that the front page is necessarily the best  
place for that.  In fact, I know its not the best place for that.


Take a look at the very well designed Ruby on Rails page.  Its a case  
study in well-designed and well thought out web sites.  The first  
thing you see is a high level overview of what Rails is.  This puts  
an idea in your head that immediately leads to a question (how can I  
get this?, how can I learn more?, how can I improve at this?,  
how can I get involved?).


The very next thing you see on the page is an answer to those  
questions (Get Excited, Get Started, Get Better, Get  
Involved).  These are clearly ordered by level of commitment,  
starting by drawing you in with screencasts and marketing hype,  
moving on to getting you started, then to getting you committed, and  
finally to getting you involved in the project itself.  The remainder  
of their page (below the fold, if you will) focuses on answering high  
level questions, and is entirely about marketing.


Its no accident that Rails is so successful with this web site.  It  
does exactly what a home page should do: tells you what its for,  
draws you in, and directs you on to where you want to go.  Perfect.



I think Richard's latest layout is perfect, both in terms of color
and whitespace.  Its easy to read, attractive, and not too full of
graphics.


Can you be more specific when you say Richard's latest layout?

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-1.png
http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-2.png
http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-3.png


I think layout three is the most attractive and layout one has the  
best content in the main content area.  I think mostly what I like  
about Richard's layouts though is the way they look: not necessarily  
what is shown in the content section.  See my little rant above for  
more about what should be on the home page :)


If I had to pick, I would say layout three, minus the sidebar.


layout 3 has a gray band at the right that is screaming out for
*something* to happen there.


Very true, and I think that sidebars area a great place for dynamic  
features that link off to other more dynamic places (recent news,  
recent checkins, recent discussions, etc.) since sidebars are  
intended for secondary information.  If done properly, they are a way  
to sneak secondary information onto the front page.  However, I would  
be perfectly satisfied if all dynamic and secondary content was  
relegated to a secondary *page*, but thats just my Usability and  
Information Architecture training showing through :)  Keep that home  
page focused!


That is specifically what I disliked about the other layouts: they  
were made up of almost entirely secondary information.  Most of that  
information should be banished from the front page, and relegated to  
another place.  This has the benefit of keeping both of those things  
focused: the home page serves its purpose better, and the other tasks  
serve their purpose better.


I would suggest that Kevin make an executive decision, and pick a  
layout that he likes for the color scheme and general design, and  
then we can focus on the content afterwards.


--
Jonathan LaCour
http://cleverdevil.org

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


On 12/22/05, Jonathan LaCour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I would have to agree here that I think Karl's layout would be better
 for a brochure, magazine, or any medium other than a website.  Its
 just plain too crowded for the web.

The move to blue was a good one, but the move from 2 columns to 3 was not:
http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/tgwebsite2.png
http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/tgwebsite3-blue.png

Taking a look at the post-1.0 Rails site, you can see that it's about
as un-crowded as it gets, and yet it's pretty effective. I do think
that having a dynamic page that shows what's going on in the project
at a glance is a good thing, and I also think that screen real estate
can be used a little better to highlight special things (like the
current turbogears.org's sidebar, which is not always used to
full-effect).

 I think Richard's latest layout is perfect, both in terms of color
 and whitespace.  Its easy to read, attractive, and not too full of
 graphics.

Can you be more specific when you say Richard's latest layout?

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-1.png
http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-2.png
http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-3.png

layout 3 has a gray band at the right that is screaming out for
*something* to happen there. I like the bottom half of layout 3, but
prefer the top half of layout 2.

Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


On 12/22/05, Karl Guertin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I unsuccessfully tried to do both, which I thought I could overcome
 with a clear enough visual hiearchy (I don't think the current design
 is clear enough on that front). I think I'll trend toward the
 community site and do less work pitching the framework.

I haven't been clear on this point, but I should be: I think the front
page *should* be more about pitching TurboGears than providing info
for the regular community. I'm thinking that letting a little bit of
what's going on (like 1 commit, 1 email message, 1 ticket, etc.) leak
out to the front page will help convey that this is an active and
moving project. A few links will allow regular users to get to
whatever they need (be it the docs, trac, the full project dashboard,
etc).

The front page of TurboGears.org absolutely has to sell people on the
framework, because it will be the landing site for people dropping by
based on articles, spotting t-shirts, etc. Providing something better
for the community than what exists today is important, but the
TurboGears regulars will have no problem clicking 1 link (or even
bookmarking a page like the dashboard, if they like staying up to date
that way)


  layout 3 has a gray band at the right that is screaming out for
  *something* to happen there. I like the bottom half of layout 3, but
  prefer the top half of layout 2.

 Richard has said he didn't know what was supposed to go on the page
 right after he put up 3, so both 2 and 3 aren't filled with content. I
 assume he was saving the gray band in 3  and the entire bottom in 2
 for future content.

Yep... that's what I get for skimming email. Sorry, Richard!

Kevin

--
Kevin Dangoor
Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
company: http://www.BlazingThings.com
blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/22/05, Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm thinking that letting a little bit of
 what's going on (like 1 commit, 1 email message, 1 ticket, etc.) leak
 out to the front page will help convey that this is an active and
 moving project.

The problem here is that commits, messages, and tickets generally
don't stand on their own so unless you have a few (3 is generally the
magic number) it isn't worth the space required to set them up and put
them in context and they generally wind up just as visual noise.

I understand what you're getting at, basically part of the appeal of
this project is the rate at which it moves and you want the pitch to
capture that as part of the pitch without explicitly saying so. I'm
sure Richard or I will get something that works for that, but it
probably won't be just one item of each type.


 Providing something better
 for the community than what exists today is important, but the
 TurboGears regulars will have no problem clicking 1 link (or even
 bookmarking a page like the dashboard, if they like staying up to date
 that way)

http://turbogears.org/spy

You know you want it.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Robin Munn

On 12/22/05, Karl Guertin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 12/22/05, Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm thinking that letting a little bit of
  what's going on (like 1 commit, 1 email message, 1 ticket, etc.) leak
  out to the front page will help convey that this is an active and
  moving project.

 The problem here is that commits, messages, and tickets generally
 don't stand on their own so unless you have a few (3 is generally the
 magic number) it isn't worth the space required to set them up and put
 them in context and they generally wind up just as visual noise.

 I understand what you're getting at, basically part of the appeal of
 this project is the rate at which it moves and you want the pitch to
 capture that as part of the pitch without explicitly saying so. I'm
 sure Richard or I will get something that works for that, but it
 probably won't be just one item of each type.

Agreed, either have 3 of a kind or nothing. If you want to show the
speed at which the project moves, perhaps including a date/time stamp
on each ticket, commit, etc. might do the job. On the other hand, that
might prove counterproductive:

* If the last commit is weeks in the past, it might say Slow-moving project.

* If the last commit is minutes ago, it might say Still under heavy
development, wait until it settles down.

I like the http://turbogears.org/spy idea. :-)

--
Robin Munn
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
GPG key 0xD6497014

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-22 Thread Richard (koorb)


Don't miss my super interesting post [1] :-)

Kevin Dangoor wrote:
 I haven't been clear on this point, but I should be: I think the front
 page *should* be more about pitching TurboGears than providing info
 for the regular community. I'm thinking that letting a little bit of
 what's going on (...) leak
 out to the front page will help convey that this is an active and
 moving project (...)
 The front page of TurboGears.org absolutely has to sell people on the
 framework, because it will be the landing site for people dropping by
 based on articles, spotting t-shirts, etc.

That's just exactly what I wanted to know. And on the hole I think I
agree with you, as converted turbogearians ( ! ) we should be able to
find our way to a dashboard or indeed a 'spy' page (hmmm!) Just out of
interest is there going to be a difference between turbogears.com and
turbogears.org ? Just to clarify!

 The problem here is that commits, messages, and tickets generally
 don't stand on their own so unless you have a few (3 is generally the
 magic number) it isn't worth the space required to set them up and put
 them in context and they generally wind up just as visual noise.

I completely agree

 If the last commit is weeks in the past, it might say Slow-moving project.

can you imagine that happening? ;-)

 If the last commit is minutes ago, it might say Still under heavy
 development, wait until it settles down.

good points, I think I was going to make another point - though I can't
remember now!

Anyways it looks like we have a good group of people to make a worthy
attempt at this, and indeed the entire project - for me this lively
helpful community is one of the strongest points and well worth
promoting.

[1] http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears/msg/ca83d1b82a28b3b9

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


On 12/22/05, Karl Guertin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The problem here is that commits, messages, and tickets generally
 don't stand on their own so unless you have a few (3 is generally the
 magic number) it isn't worth the space required to set them up and put
 them in context and they generally wind up just as visual noise.

What if it's all in a Project Happenings section...

Planet posting: title from where date/time
Mail message: subject from whom date/time
Last commit: brief description date/time
etc...

The heading can link to the TurboGears Spy.

 http://turbogears.org/spy

 You know you want it.

Yes, I do. When will it be ready? :)

Kevin

--
Kevin Dangoor
Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
company: http://www.BlazingThings.com
blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-21 Thread Greg Dean


What is important is that there is just enough content on the frontpage to know what we are talking about, and that it takes no more than
one or two clicks to go to the information (a longer featurepresentation, a wiki, the tutorials, download, trac, etc.)Evan
Oh yes, this is absolutely true. There just seemed to be too much white
on the page. I like the amount of stuff on Karl's pages [1]. Another
feature of those pages I like is the image with all the different
gears. OTOH, I'm not a big fan of the colors. 

--greg

[1] http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/tgwebsite2.png

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-21 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/21/05, Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What specifically do you think is like the Firefox page, I do have a
 habit of drawing inspiration from things I've seen!

I've blocked out your page [1] and the firefox product page [2]
(http://mozilla.com/firefox). Your grid is (consciously or not)
derived from the firefox product page. It's not an uncommon grid
layout, but that's why you keep putting a block at the top of the
screen

[1] http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/turbogears/koorb_grid.png
[2] http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/turbogears/hicks_grid.png

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-21 Thread Michele Cella


I think Karl's layout is original and nice, but (personally) I don't
find it quite usable.
For example, I think the front page exposes to many things packed in a
small spaces and it's hard to find what you are looking for.

Most probably my impression it's only related to the relatively dark
(and not too much contrasted) colors used.

Dunno, but maybe after collecting enough layout ideas you should launch
a pool?

Ciao
Michele

Kevin Dangoor wrote:
 As of now, these are my two favorites of the choices I've seen thus far:

 http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-2.png
 http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/tgwebsite2.png

 What I wonder about for Karl's layout is what the interior pages would
 look like. I'm generally a fan of light background/dark text when
 doing a lot of reading, and the front page text background is a bit
 darker than I'd imagine on the inner pages.

 Overall, though, these are both layouts that I'd be proud to hang up
 on turbogears.org.

 By the way, Karl's got the right idea in terms of the kinds of things
 I was thinking of having on the front page. There would be a dynamic
 part for people who are regular visitors to get an at a glance idea
 of what's going on, the rest of the page would largely be to

 1) let newcomers know why they're here
 2) provide easy access to the major destinations on the site

 Kevin

 --
 Kevin Dangoor
 Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader

 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 company: http://www.BlazingThings.com
 blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-20 Thread Richard (koorb)


Just to mention that the gear needs some attention to work at this size
(in layout-3), you loose much detail because it's so subtle and it
gains a much more pronounced outline which gives it something of a
cartoonish look (more like my first attempts ;-)

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-20 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/20/05, Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 And another layout [2] not sure weather I'm moving forward or back
 here, let me know what you think.

I think your second layout was stronger, this one lacks contrast. I
also think that the 3d gear hanging off the left in v2 adds visual
interest and probably should be kept as a layout element. For me, at
least, the 3d gear catches the eye and the blue background and
logotype draw the eye to the download button. I don't get as strong of
a visual draw with v3.

 I don't know why I keep putting this
 area at the top of the home page (in layout-3 it's the yellow section)

So far your design grids seem to have been based off the firefox
product page. If you chose a different grid and started over, I
suspect you wouldn't have a problem dropping that box. As is, it
rounds out the grid you've based your design upon.

 I haven't put much thought into position of content or indeed what
 content will appear on the page at all, so if you would all be so kind
 as to make some suggestions as to what you want to see I can better
 think about the actual structure of the page and what needs to be most
 prominent.

I'm wondering this myself. I can make guesses based on what I'd like
to see, but I would be interested in hearing what people would like.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-20 Thread Greg Dean

Hello all,

 [2] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-3.png
I felt that something is missing here...Dunno what.But it looks like therecould be more things on this main page.
I agree with this. I think the page may be a little sparse and I'm not
real sure about the yellow as the color of the big box at the top. I
liked the blue used in your second layout along with the yellow/golden
gears.That's just my thoughts.

--greg

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-20 Thread Evan Monroig


On 12/21/05, Greg Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   [2]
 http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layouts/layout-3.png
 
  I felt that something is missing here...  Dunno what.  But it looks like
 there
  could be more things on this main page.

  I agree with this. I think the page may be a little sparse and [snip]


What is important is that there is just enough content on the front
page to know what we are talking about, and that it takes no more than
one or two clicks to go to the information (a longer feature
presentation, a wiki, the tutorials, download, trac, etc.)

Evan

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-20 Thread Karl Guertin


Second verse [2], same as the first [1]. Now with 300% more gradients!

Iteration:
[1] http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/tgwebsite.png
[2] http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/tgwebsite2.png

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-19 Thread Jorge Godoy


Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Silverness abounds with the latest incarnations [1,2,3,4] also some
 vector artwork for playing with[5]
 
 [1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gear+silver+3up.png

Is it too hard to have a version of the lower one but with the letters
shinier? As if made of stainless steel and very polished?  :-)  I think it
would be more readable...  


How I wished I could do things like that...  *sigh*  But then, I'm an engineer
not a designer...  One can't do all things :-)

-- 
Jorge Godoy  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-19 Thread Ronald Jaramillo



Great, silver is good. I think the engraved gear work great as an  
emblem for TG. I less enthusiastic about the cogified 'o'  and the  
characters overlapping when TG is written out.


This is how my desktop looks like right now:
http://www.checkandshare.com/images/desktop.png

I'm still waiting for my t-shirt =)
Ronald



On Dec 19, 2005, at 11:07 PM, Richard (koorb) wrote:



Silverness abounds with the latest incarnations [1,2,3,4] also some
vector artwork for playing with[5]

[1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gear+silver+3up.png
[2] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gear+silver+red.png
[3] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gear+silver+blue.png
[4] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gear+silver+engraved.png
[5] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/artwork




Ronald Jaramillo
mail: ronald AT checkandshare DOT com
blog: http://www.checkandshare.com/blog

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-19 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/19/05, Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 also some vector artwork for playing with[5]

Thanks muchly. This is my take on the 3d gear [1]. I'll have a website
design coming up in not too long.

[1] http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/turbogears3d.jpg

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-19 Thread Karl Guertin


First pass at a site design is [1]. I did orange because it's
different and I don't really want to have the TG site look like the
Mozilla site any more than it looks like ruby or django. The basic
idea is that the left column is the news. Center is a 'community'
section with features on sites using TG, new tutorials for the current
revision, community blog articles, etc. The right column is a what's
coming up and features the devcasts, components in svn only, etc.

[1] http://gr.ayre.st/~grayrest/tgwebsite.png

Caveats

I'm currently substituting a mix of Futura and Trebuchet MS for the
title fonts (I don't know what the TG logo font is, it's close to
Futura but not quite the same) and plan on replacing them with sifr'd
text in the same font as the logo. I'm not quite happy with the main
body appearance and will be redoing that in the future. The gears
graphic isn't done correctly (the gear teeth lining up and the same
size) and there is no navigation on the front page.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-17 Thread Mike Orr


+1 for shiny metallic colors, especially since we're talking about gears.


--
Mike Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
([EMAIL PROTECTED] address is semi-reliable)

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-16 Thread Richard (koorb)


 I do find the logo a little
 large and distracting.  I can't read the content because all I see is
 a giant bright-yellow gear!  If it were scaled down 30-40% I think it
 would be great.

agreed

 I think that the top bar is far too easy to ignore, being gray, and would
 probably look better as a brighter color

also agree

 Could I get a vector outline of the g-gear you're using?
...
 Can I have a gear like the gold one but gray/silver (the one that
 you've already done) and with the TurboGears text (and
 front-to-back...) in red/light blue? :D

I will put up some of the original artwork files so others can have a
play. Regarding different size gears interconnecting (I have some ideas
for 3d animations - trying to get to grips with Blender[1]) it's tricky
because the teeth on the gears have to be same size and spaces - not
easy.

I will try and refine the design a bit and but together some test
templates

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-15 Thread Richard (koorb)


A quick play with an idea [1]. The yellow on blue reminds me of
something else, but I can't think what right now - just so you know I
didn't intentionally rip of someone else's colour scheme.

I'm also a little unsure about the lack of colour generally - seen as
the gear and blue splash bar wouldn't appear on every page. But see
what you think. the first layout is here [2]

[1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout-2.png
[2] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-15 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/15/05, Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout-2.png

Could I get a vector outline of the g-gear you're using? I'm +1 on the
logotype but I want to do some work on the 3d gear and I'd like to be
working from the same base.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-15 Thread Kevin Dangoor


Your color scheme looks like that of my alma mater (University of
Michigan), though a bit brighter than the ole maize and blue.

I think this looks terrific. The real challenge here is going to be
keeping myself from updating the site to use this look until the 0.9
release ;)

We'll see what other folks think of this new layout. If there's no
violent objections, would you be able to get the HTML together for
this? There's *a lot* of content work to do on the site, and I'd like
to play around with hanging the content off of something that looks
real.

Kevin

On 12/15/05, Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A quick play with an idea [1]. The yellow on blue reminds me of
 something else, but I can't think what right now - just so you know I
 didn't intentionally rip of someone else's colour scheme.

 I'm also a little unsure about the lack of colour generally - seen as
 the gear and blue splash bar wouldn't appear on every page. But see
 what you think. the first layout is here [2]

 [1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout-2.png
 [2] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png




--
Kevin Dangoor
Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
company: http://www.BlazingThings.com
blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-15 Thread Michele Cella


Hi Richard,

Great work again, but my personal preference goes to the first layout,
I find it really nice, professional and easy on the eyes.

Ciao
Michele

PS
Can I have a gear like the gold one but gray/silver (the one that
you've already done) and with the TurboGears text (and
front-to-back...) in red/light blue? :D
I'm just wondering how it will fit inside the first layout (nicely
IMHO).

Richard (koorb) wrote:
 A quick play with an idea [1]. The yellow on blue reminds me of
 something else, but I can't think what right now - just so you know I
 didn't intentionally rip of someone else's colour scheme.

 I'm also a little unsure about the lack of colour generally - seen as
 the gear and blue splash bar wouldn't appear on every page. But see
 what you think. the first layout is here [2]

 [1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout-2.png
 [2] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-15 Thread Kevin Dangoor


On 12/15/05, Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A quick play with an idea [1]. The yellow on blue reminds me of
 something else, but I can't think what right now - just so you know I
 didn't intentionally rip of someone else's colour scheme.

I should say that one plus to this color scheme is that it's distinct
from our competitors.

Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-15 Thread Jorge Godoy


Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 [1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout-2.png

+1

-- 
Jorge Godoy  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-15 Thread Kevin Dangoor


On 12/15/05, Jonathan LaCour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  We'll see what other folks think of this new layout. If there's no
  violent objections, would you be able to get the HTML together for
  this? There's *a lot* of content work to do on the site, and I'd like
  to play around with hanging the content off of something that looks
  real.

 I think this looks fantastic.  However, I do find the logo a little
 large and distracting.  I can't read the content because all I see is
 a giant bright-yellow gear!  If it were scaled down 30-40% I think it
 would be great.

Agreed. It is a bit overwhelming.

 However, it is clear to me that Richard is really onto something
 here, and is extremely qualified to create a great new look for
 TurboGears!

Indeed!

Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-12 Thread Richard (koorb)


 as Kevin already said TurboGears should be
 written in only a word

I completely agree, which is why this particular idea may not work too
well, but as it happens I was copying Kevin's idea:

 I roughed this up in a
 few minutes to show the idea, but it's not a serious implementation:
 http://www.blazingthings.com/logo-beveled.png

 'TurboGears' stops being legible when the dimensions get smaller than 72x72

If you just shrunk the image there down then I'm not surprised, as the
text is meant to be kind of subtle as it is, I think these gold gears
are kind of pretty artwork, they wouldn't work as a 'logo' per-say.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-12 Thread Kevin Dangoor


On 12/12/05, Richard (koorb) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  as Kevin already said TurboGears should be
  written in only a word

 I completely agree, which is why this particular idea may not work too
 well, but as it happens I was copying Kevin's idea:

Yep. But, in this case, it's more balanced to break it up (and koorb's
other example shows this).

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-1.png

The point where I said it needed to be one word was where TurboGears
was written out in actual plain text like this:

TURBO   GEARS

I'm less concerned about that in this logo (more below).

  'TurboGears' stops being legible when the dimensions get smaller than 72x72

 If you just shrunk the image there down then I'm not surprised, as the
 text is meant to be kind of subtle as it is, I think these gold gears
 are kind of pretty artwork, they wouldn't work as a 'logo' per-say.

I agree about the words being somewhat subtle. I'm not anticipating
that the G-gear would be alone on the site without the word
TurboGears nearby.

When it comes to it being pretty artwork, the distinctive G-gear
*is* the logo, imho. Consider the Firefox example: the logo is the fox
wrapped around the world. Usually, you'll see the word Firefox
appear nearby. Many logos have an image that can be used independently
of the text of the company's name, right? (Like the ATT
eyeball/death-star thing)

As koorb pointed out, you just have to have a consistent text style to
go with the actual name of the thing.

The part where I'm torn, though, is that I do like the O-G meshed gear
idea as well, and using both might be too much (unless, as koorb says,
the gold G is just decoration). I do think that the G in the O-G
sample should be the gear rather than just a modified G as it is now.
(But, it should be the same color as the rest of the word.)

I think my vote at this point would be:

- in a square space use the gold G, beveled letter emblem
- when writing the text TurboGears, use the style with the cog O-G,
but be sure to the same G shape as the emblem
- use metal accents as differentiation from the others out there

I'm not certain if point 1 and 2 work together or not. I'd have to see
it more in context to know for sure...

Thanks for the terrific work!

Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-12 Thread Tracy Ruggles




On Dec 12, 2005, at 10:09 AM, Kevin Dangoor wrote:


I think my vote at this point would be:

- in a square space use the gold G, beveled letter emblem
- when writing the text TurboGears, use the style with the cog O-G,
but be sure to the same G shape as the emblem
- use metal accents as differentiation from the others out there

I'm not certain if point 1 and 2 work together or not. I'd have to see
it more in context to know for sure...


I think it does even though the styles of the bigger, more serious  
companies don't ever show their emblem without the text version.  In  
most cases, the text version of their company name *is* or is the  
major part of the logo (fedex, att, dell, adm, google) [1] -- with  
the notable exceptions being apple, mcdonalds, firefox and others [2].



Thanks for the terrific work!


Yes!  This is all very good!

--Tracy


[1]  http://www.fedex.com/ag/ebusiness/brand/guidelines.html?link=4 
 http://www.att.com/brand/ 
 http://www.dell.com 
 http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:xCoLs7OlXw0J:admworld.com/ 
pdf/logo_guidelines.pdf 

 http://www.google.com/press/images.html 

[2]  http://www.apple.com 
 http://www.mcdonalds.com/corp/news/media/multi/logos.html 
 http://www.mozilla.com/firefox

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


Kay, different approach this time - chance to see it in some kind of
context.

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

comment away

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Tracy Ruggles




On Dec 11, 2005, at 11:44 AM, koorb wrote:



Kay, different approach this time - chance to see it in some kind of
context.

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

comment away


The 'O' in turbo is just begging to be cog-ified, too...
http://reinventnow.com/turbogears/

I don't have the time at all to contribute much to the logo/design  
work, but if anyone likes the o-g tandem gears... you can run with it.


--Tracy

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Angel Luis Jimenez Martinez


Wow, really nice design!!

I like this white-based designs with some touches of color.

Great work

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Kevin Dangoor


I've got a bug report: the download button doesn't work! I was
hoping to download 0.9 from there and save a bunch of time :)

A couple of comments:

- I also like the mostly white page look. It's certainly cleaner
than the current.
- I'd like to use more metallic colors for the accents: they're
dfferent from our competition and they go along with the gear theme
- I like using the G-gear as a stand out logo (somewhat akin to
Ronald's suggestion)
- My wife had the suggestion that we write TurboGears on the gear
itself. I like it, because it can go along with the machined look.
This is not to say that we wouldn't also write TurboGears nearby, but
this can make the logo stand on its own more. I roughed this up in a
few minutes to show the idea, but it's not a serious implementation:

http://www.blazingthings.com/logo-beveled.png

my wife actually suggested making a bronze colored gear (not unlike
the current G, color-wise) and using silverly letters. That *may* look
good, I'm not sure. Gears more often come in steel (but a bronze or
golden gear could be striking, hard to say).

- the front page *will* have more useful stuff on it than it does now.
keep that in mind when doing layouts (imagine things like: latest
news, recent tickets, recent commits, etc). Lorem ipsum away!

Kevin

On 12/11/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kay, different approach this time - chance to see it in some kind of
 context.

 http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

 comment away




--
Kevin Dangoor
Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
company: http://www.BlazingThings.com
blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Ronald Jaramillo



Really nice and clean.
Ronald

On Dec 11, 2005, at 6:44 PM, koorb wrote:



Kay, different approach this time - chance to see it in some kind of
context.

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

comment away




Ronald Jaramillo
mail: ronald AT checkandshare DOT com
blog: http://www.checkandshare.com/blog

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Dave Warnock


Kevin,

 - My wife had the suggestion that we write TurboGears on the gear
 itself. I like it, because it can go along with the machined look.
 This is not to say that we wouldn't also write TurboGears nearby, but
 this can make the logo stand on its own more. I roughed this up in a
 few minutes to show the idea, but it's not a serious implementation:

+1

 my wife actually suggested making a bronze colored gear (not unlike
 the current G, color-wise) and using silverly letters. That *may* look
 good, I'm not sure. Gears more often come in steel (but a bronze or
 golden gear could be striking, hard to say).

+1 to have a look. As a Ubuntu fan I am into browns etc.

Dave

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


Hey,
 The 'O' in turbo is just begging to be cog-ified, too

I'm a little wary of over complicating this one, to many fancy-fied
letters in a logo like this loose the focus.

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/og-red.png
- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/og-blue.png
- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/og-green.png
- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/og-orange.png

I also did some mini buttons - which are surprisingly hard to do!

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/buttons-blue.png
- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/buttons-red.png

So these were done before I read the latest comments though

 write TurboGears on the gear
 bronze colored gear

I will give that a go this week.

I am leaning toward simple more. I'm told that a rule of thumb for a
good logo is that it is recognisable in silhouette. Ruby on rails isn't
strictly but the basic shapes are. Django certainly is. Firefox,
different thing cos it's an application icon. I did a wonderful
analysis of their logo for you guys:

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/firefox-analysis.png

The simpler it is, the easier it is to use everywhere and the quicker
people will recognise it. I did a couple of *minor* tweaks to the
layout also.  everything so far is here:

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Lee McFadden


On 12/11/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

 comment away

Awesome work.

+1 on the idea of the O being 'cogified' too.  The O and G meshing
together giving a feeling of... well, meshing ;)

I also like the idea of a bronze-ish G-gear, especially for standalone stuff.

All in all, top stuff.

--
Lee

Blog: http://www.splee.co.uk

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


 http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

 I've got a bug report: the download button doesn't work! I was
 hoping to download 0.9 from there and save a bunch of time :)

Just a sec, I think I have the e-mail for the guy in charge of that ...

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Mike Pirnat


On 12/11/05, Lee McFadden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 +1 on the idea of the O being 'cogified' too.  The O and G meshing
 together giving a feeling of... well, meshing ;)

I see my nefarious mind control ray has finally worked on Lee...
(http://tinyurl.com/8djne)

One down, 6 billion to go! ;-)


--
Mike Pirnat
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Michele Cella


koorb wrote:
 Hey guys, this certainly is a hot topic. Nice to have a generally
 positive feedback.

Hi koorb,


 I had a play with some other ideas
 http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/logo-sheet.png, someone on my
 web site suggested a metallic look.

Yes, it was me.

I really like (as the others it seems) the gray one in the section
number 1 here:

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/logo-sheet.png

I also like your layout mockup (and in particular the white
background).

From your initial ideas, I personally like how the G gear stands out,
for example on the under the hood badges here:

http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/big/tglogo-buttons.jpg

It's quite characteristic IMHO.


 On the subject of colour, does anyone have a preference? Im not a
 massive fan of the greens used on the site at the moment (or on my
 logos), but like the current logo, it has kind of grown on me. I often
 lean toward blue's and red's myself.


I'm personally in favor of using some (dep)red here and there (as you
already done on your layout template) and as suggested by Ronald.

Great work, really!

Ciao
Michele

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Simon Belak



+1 for cogification of O, but I would keep colours flat and simple.
Perhaps just move the Gear part a bit lower to create the impression 
of a stereotypical cog join.


Simon

Lee McFadden wrote:

On 12/11/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/layout.png

comment away



Awesome work.

+1 on the idea of the O being 'cogified' too.  The O and G meshing
together giving a feeling of... well, meshing ;)

I also like the idea of a bronze-ish G-gear, especially for standalone stuff.

All in all, top stuff.

--
Lee

Blog: http://www.splee.co.uk




--
Simon Belak
vodja projektnih skupin

e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Hruska d.o.o., agencija za nove medije
Ilirska 21, SI-1000 Ljubljana

t: +386 1 430 25 86  f: +386 1 430 25 87

s: http://www.hruska.si
s: http://akademija.hruska.si (izobrazevalni portal)
s: http://www.elor.si (kadrovski sistem letnih razgovorov)

Hruska.si - socne resitve


To elektronsko sporocilo in vse morebitne priloge so poslovna  skrivnost 
in namenjene izkljucno naslovniku. Ce ste sporocilo prejeli  pomotoma, 
Vas prosimo, da obvestite posiljatelja, sporocilo pa takoj  unicite. 
Kakrsnokoli razkritje, distribucija ali kopiranje vsebine  sporocila je 
strogo prepovedano.


This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and/or 
privileged information and is intended solely for the addressee. If  you 
are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in  error) 
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.  Any 
unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material  in 
this e-mail, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in  reliance on 
it, is strictly prohibited.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


nother post :-)

Hi Simon,

 Perhaps just move the Gear part a bit lower to create the impression
 of a stereotypical cog join.

could you elaborate? not entirely sure what you mean.

Hi Michele,

 From your initial ideas, I personally like how the G gear stands out,
 (...) on the under the hood badges

I agree, though I do not like that type face anymore. Having the G
larger than the rest of the type does make it more distinctive but
increases the possibility of reading it as Turbo Ears as has been
mentioned on a previous topic. But I don't think happens so much here.

 I'm personally in favor of using some (dep)red

I rather like the reds too. It was mentioned that ROR uses red, and
yeah there RAILS logo is red, but their site is not.

But now to followup on Kevin's request here is the stand-alone gear -
with inscription.

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-1.png

and another for good measure

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-2.png

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Simon Belak



hi koorb,

something like this:
http://www.ceeo.tufts.edu/ldaps/htdocs/curriculum/images/lego/gearmath/gears.jpg

Perhaps a bad example since the gears depicted are differently sized but 
the basic idea is to have axles in different horizontal plains 
(different Y coordinate if you will).


Simon

koorb wrote:

nother post :-)

Hi Simon,



Perhaps just move the Gear part a bit lower to create the impression
of a stereotypical cog join.



could you elaborate? not entirely sure what you mean.

Hi Michele,



From your initial ideas, I personally like how the G gear stands out,
(...) on the under the hood badges



I agree, though I do not like that type face anymore. Having the G
larger than the rest of the type does make it more distinctive but
increases the possibility of reading it as Turbo Ears as has been
mentioned on a previous topic. But I don't think happens so much here.



I'm personally in favor of using some (dep)red



I rather like the reds too. It was mentioned that ROR uses red, and
yeah there RAILS logo is red, but their site is not.

But now to followup on Kevin's request here is the stand-alone gear -
with inscription.

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-1.png

and another for good measure

- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-2.png





--
Simon Belak
vodja projektnih skupin

e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Hruska d.o.o., agencija za nove medije
Ilirska 21, SI-1000 Ljubljana

t: +386 1 430 25 86  f: +386 1 430 25 87

s: http://www.hruska.si
s: http://akademija.hruska.si (izobrazevalni portal)
s: http://www.elor.si (kadrovski sistem letnih razgovorov)

Hruska.si - socne resitve


To elektronsko sporocilo in vse morebitne priloge so poslovna  skrivnost 
in namenjene izkljucno naslovniku. Ce ste sporocilo prejeli  pomotoma, 
Vas prosimo, da obvestite posiljatelja, sporocilo pa takoj  unicite. 
Kakrsnokoli razkritje, distribucija ali kopiranje vsebine  sporocila je 
strogo prepovedano.


This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and/or 
privileged information and is intended solely for the addressee. If  you 
are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in  error) 
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail.  Any 
unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material  in 
this e-mail, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in  reliance on 
it, is strictly prohibited.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Jorge Godoy


koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 - http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-1.png
 
 and another for good measure
 
 - http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-2.png

Very good!  Specially the second! :-)  Congratulations!

-- 
Jorge Godoy  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/11/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Perhaps just move the Gear part a bit lower to create the impression
  of a stereotypical cog join.

 could you elaborate? not entirely sure what you mean.

He means basically to move the 'TURBO' part in [1] up by about an
x-height. I would not recommend this because it splits the words and
makes it look like it's supposed to be 'Turbo Gears' when it is not.

[1] http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/og-red.png
 But now to followup on Kevin's request here is the stand-alone gear -
 with inscription.

 - http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-2.png

The second is a much better layout but (directed to everybody else)
'TurboGears' stops being legible when the dimensions get smaller than
72x72. I also think the gear has enough visual noise without extra
text on it, so I'm -1 on the text on the gear.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-11 Thread Ronald Jaramillo




I want a T-Shirt!  Black, medium size and with 'Under The Hood' on  
the back' please =)


- http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/gold-2.png



Cheers
Ronald

Ronald Jaramillo
mail: ronald AT checkandshare DOT com
blog: http://www.checkandshare.com/blog

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-10 Thread koorb


Hey guys, this certainly is a hot topic. Nice to have a generally
positive feedback.

I had a play with some other ideas
http://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/logo-sheet.png, someone on my
web site suggested a metallic look. I don't think I pulled it off
particularly well.

I agree that it would do with being more serious, like it or otherwise
there is competition. Simple is good, but so is good detail. I reckon
my favourite of mine so far may be the bottom left most (first 1 under
section 3 - sorry I couldn't be bothered to split them into different
files so I just numbered vague areas of the image :-)

I changed the G-gear a bit, don't know what you think. If anyone has
some constructive ideas that they can convey to me, I'd be willing to
try and put it on screen. I tend to be inspirationally challenged,
which is why I don't do *this* for a living! However my brother is a
talented illustrator and I may see if he would be willing to give some
input.

On the subject of colour, does anyone have a preference? Im not a
massive fan of the greens used on the site at the moment (or on my
logos), but like the current logo, it has kind of grown on me. I often
lean toward blue's and red's myself.

On the subject of pros. Just by the fact that everyone knows who Jon
Hicks is is proof enough of his talent, good designers are normally
know by reputation rather than promotion. If we are really serious
about a *really* good, professional look for tg then we will need a
*really* good professional!
I enjoy playing about with design and such, which is why I have put the
time into these, but the fact is, the talent and inspiration of
designers such as Hicks is something I could only dream of all I offer
is doodles of an enthusiastic wanna-be. Sometimes though maybe that's
enough and one of us here can come up with something, or better yet
collaborate to come up with something. Either way I'm going to bed now
as it's 11:30pm and I was up the other night till 2pm with this (see
enthusiastic eh!). Notte.

- wow, long post!

koorb

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-10 Thread Ronald Jaramillo

Hi Koorb,I really like the metallic gear (the flat one, not the quicksilver one), Color wise I think green is not that good, it tend's to get muggy and heavy. The dark red in the circle inside the gear of the existing logo is better, it looks good on white,conveys warm, passion and is classy in a royal kind of way.One problem with the current logo is that, even if I like the idea of a 'G' as a gear (and I'm shure graficallywe can make it work) it's still 'wrong'.I mean there is no much turbo in a gear missing 18% of it's teeth? That was not an attempt to be funny, people do react to such things without thinking. (hm, broken gear?)Anyway, I play a bit with the metallic gear:http://www.checkandshare.com/images/tg_logo_2.pngI like the combination og white, gray and the deep red. Spend some time working with the typography and ended with a heavy spaced ITC Officina Serif. It has an industrial look over it, and due to the serifs seams pretty solid/stable.Just my 2.c.Ronald On Dec 11, 2005, at 12:34 AM, koorb wrote:Hey guys, this certainly is a hot topic. Nice to have a generallypositive feedback.I had a play with some other ideashttp://koorb.co.uk/static/images/tglogos/logo-sheet.png, someone on myweb site suggested a metallic look. I don't think I pulled it offparticularly well.I agree that it would do with being more serious, like it or otherwisethere is competition. Simple is good, but so is good detail. I reckonmy favourite of mine so far may be the bottom left most (first 1 under"section 3" - sorry I couldn't be bothered to split them into differentfiles so I just numbered vague areas of the image :-)I changed the G-gear a bit, don't know what you think. If anyone hassome constructive ideas that they can convey to me, I'd be willing totry and put it on screen. I tend to be inspirationally challenged,which is why I don't do *this* for a living! However my brother is atalented illustrator and I may see if he would be willing to give someinput.On the subject of colour, does anyone have a preference? Im not amassive fan of the greens used on the site at the moment (or on mylogos), but like the current logo, it has kind of grown on me. I oftenlean toward blue's and red's myself.On the subject of pros. Just by the fact that everyone knows who JonHicks is is proof enough of his talent, good designers are normallyknow by reputation rather than promotion. If we are really seriousabout a *really* good, professional look for tg then we will need a*really* good professional!I enjoy playing about with design and such, which is why I have put thetime into these, but the fact is, the talent and inspiration ofdesigners such as Hicks is something I could only dream of all I offeris doodles of an enthusiastic wanna-be. Sometimes though maybe that'senough and one of us here can come up with something, or better yetcollaborate to come up with something. Either way I'm going to bed nowas it's 11:30pm and I was up the other night till 2pm with this (seeenthusiastic eh!). Notte.- wow, long post!koorb Henriksvej 15 2400 København NV +45 22 27 85 11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-10 Thread Kevin Dangoor


On 12/10/05, Ronald Jaramillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Koorb,
 I really like the metallic gear (the flat one, not the quicksilver one),
 Color wise I think green is not that good, it tend's to get muggy and heavy.
 The dark red in the circle inside the gear of the existing logo is better, it 
 looks good on white,
 conveys warm, passion and  is classy in a royal kind of way.
 One problem with the current logo is that, even if I like the idea of a 'G' 
 as a gear (and I'm shure grafically
 we can make it work) it's still 'wrong'.
 I mean there is no much turbo in a gear missing 18% of it's teeth?

Our gears are so fast, you don't even need to go all the way around!


 That was not an attempt to be funny, people do react to such things without 
 thinking. (hm, broken gear?)
 Anyway, I play a bit with the metallic gear:
 http://www.checkandshare.com/images/tg_logo_2.png


 I like the combination og white, gray and the deep red. Spend some time 
 working with the typography and ended with a
 heavy spaced ITC Officina Serif. It has an industrial look over it, and due 
 to the serifs seams pretty solid/stable.

I agree with your choice of colors, but I'm not as certain about
extending the crossbar of the G all the way across. Yes, it may be
more mechanically stable that way, but it looks less like a G.

Also, it's TurboGears and not Turbo Gears -- having a space in the
logo could really throw people off.

Unless someone has a specific designer (other than Jon Hicks) in mind,
I think the new logo and site template will come from people on this
list (or people that people on this list know). Luckily, the designs
you're coming up with are much better than what we've got now. So,
this is a great discussion!

Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread qvx


I know I'm little off the topic, but I felt that I should say it.

I'm developing an in-house solution here at my company using TG, and
all I've told to my boss is that it is using a Python web framework. I
omitted the TurboGears part, because the name doesn't sound serious or
professional. Personally, I like the name, and it is somewhat in
the spirit of Python, but it doesn't compete well with all those
other mouthful Enterprise names. Just by saying it to other
colleagues, who are using Oracle AS, J2EE, WebSphere and others, they
think: where does he just find those things/toys?

I ment no offence :)

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


On 12/8/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's good this topic has been brought up, although an apparently
 trivial thing the look and brand can have a big impact on how something
 is perceived. I rather liked the turbogears under the hood badges,
 and the newer templates on the site are nice and clean but it would be
 good to get some continuity.

Very nice work. The G looks like a superhero emblem :)

I was looking at this company which has done some surprisingly nice
logos for surprisingly little money:
http://thelogocompany.net/logo-design-example10.htm

But, your logo idea seems as good as what we'd get from there.

Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


On 12/9/05, qvx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm developing an in-house solution here at my company using TG, and
 all I've told to my boss is that it is using a Python web framework. I
 omitted the TurboGears part, because the name doesn't sound serious or
 professional. Personally, I like the name, and it is somewhat in
 the spirit of Python, but it doesn't compete well with all those
 other mouthful Enterprise names. Just by saying it to other
 colleagues, who are using Oracle AS, J2EE, WebSphere and others, they
 think: where does he just find those things/toys?

 I ment no offence :)

None taken.

Naming is an interesting thing (and particularly hard these days,
given what it takes to find an available domain name). Domain name
issues aside, finding a name that conveys the right image and has the
right feel is very difficult.

I don't think Yahoo! and Google are serious sounding, but these
are both well-respected multibillion dollar businesses. What company
would want to place a job posting on Monster? Lots, actually.

Sounding like Oracle AS, J2EE and even WebSphere is not what we
want. TurboGears is the anti-J2EE. It's for a shop that's ready to
take the plunge and do agile development. We've got an agile,
AJAX-enabled, Web 2.0-compliant, lightweight framework, so I think
we're plenty buzzword compliant. The TurboGears name is just not fully
established yet, but articles and books and the like will help over
time. I doubt Ruby On Rails sounded particularly serious to many
folks when David first introduced it.

Kevin

--
Kevin Dangoor
Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
company: http://www.BlazingThings.com
blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/8/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm guessing you can't read my mind, so here's the link to
 http://koorb.co.uk/turbogears/ (it's 2:30am I need sleep ...)

Nice work, I wanted to do an upward slanted G crossbar but that
doesn't fit with my text while it does with yours. I prefer the flat
design to the 3d variations, but my tastes in design tend to run to
the austere.

As for colors, deeper greens and all browns tend to be the worst on
computer monitors, as different calibrations on different monitors
have the greatest effect on those colors. Green is sort of the
signature django color and I assume rails will go with red. It's
certainly possible to use these colors (green, brown, red), but those
are the issues I have with them.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread Sean De La Torre


I recently used logoworks.com for my business logo.  After seeing what
they did for me, my dad also used them for his company's logo.  Their
service was excellent, however, they are a little more expensive than
thelogocompany.

Kevin Dangoor wrote:
 On 12/8/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It's good this topic has been brought up, although an apparently
  trivial thing the look and brand can have a big impact on how something
  is perceived. I rather liked the turbogears under the hood badges,
  and the newer templates on the site are nice and clean but it would be
  good to get some continuity.

 Very nice work. The G looks like a superhero emblem :)

 I was looking at this company which has done some surprisingly nice
 logos for surprisingly little money:
 http://thelogocompany.net/logo-design-example10.htm

 But, your logo idea seems as good as what we'd get from there.
 
 Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


Interesting. I looked at their site as well, but I was little more
impressed by thelogocompany's samples. As I said, though, I'm not sure
that we'd get anything better than koorb's logo from either of those
places. (Different, I'm sure... but better is unknown, and subjective
anyway.)

What you get from someone like Jon Hicks is an incredible level of
detail. Look at the Firefox, Thunderbird or even the Rails logo and
you'll see what I mean. Or check out his samples:
http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/

His logos have very interesting texture and detail to them. (I guess I
don't tend toward the austere...)

One thing about koorb's logo idea that just hit me (bringing in the
other message that wondered about our branding vs. J2EE, for example):
it is a more fun logo than the current one. It may actually skew a
little too fun. (Not that I'm, in general, an opponent of fun, but
we *are* competing for real attention as an application platform.)

Consider koorb's logo:
http://koorb.co.uk/turbogears/variations.html

and the under the hood in use today (look on the far right):
http://www.diggdot.us/

Kevin

On 12/9/05, Sean De La Torre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I recently used logoworks.com for my business logo.  After seeing what
 they did for me, my dad also used them for his company's logo.  Their
 service was excellent, however, they are a little more expensive than
 thelogocompany.

 Kevin Dangoor wrote:
  On 12/8/05, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   It's good this topic has been brought up, although an apparently
   trivial thing the look and brand can have a big impact on how something
   is perceived. I rather liked the turbogears under the hood badges,
   and the newer templates on the site are nice and clean but it would be
   good to get some continuity.
 
  Very nice work. The G looks like a superhero emblem :)
 
  I was looking at this company which has done some surprisingly nice
  logos for surprisingly little money:
  http://thelogocompany.net/logo-design-example10.htm
 
  But, your logo idea seems as good as what we'd get from there.
 
  Kevin




--
Kevin Dangoor
Author of the Zesty News RSS newsreader

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
company: http://www.BlazingThings.com
blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread Tim Lesher


On 12/9/05, Sean De La Torre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I recently used logoworks.com for my business logo.  After seeing what
 they did for me, my dad also used them for his company's logo.  Their
 service was excellent, however, they are a little more expensive than
 thelogocompany.

I don't have any direct contact with LogoWorks, but I've been
less-than-impressed with some things I've read about them:
http://www.baddesignkills.com/logoworks/

Apparently, this sort of this is not uncommon among the low price
logo design companies.

--
Tim Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0


On 12/9/05, Tim Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't have any direct contact with LogoWorks, but I've been
 less-than-impressed with some things I've read about them:
 http://www.baddesignkills.com/logoworks/

 Apparently, this sort of this is not uncommon among the low price
 logo design companies.

That explains a lot. I was wondering how they managed those quick
turnarounds and low prices. Claiming the Xerox logo is a bold move, if
you ask me.

Kevin

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread Mark Ramm


 Consider koorb's logo:
 http://koorb.co.uk/turbogears/variations.html

 and the under the hood in use today (look on the far right):
 http://www.diggdot.us/

Personally I think the issue is not so much fun vs serious, but
armature vs professional.   And even that isn't quite what I want to
say, because I think a lot of time armature means better rather than
worse -- because armatures actually care about what they are doing ;) 
  I just think the Under the Hood logo looks has more classical design
elements, and looks more solid/static/focused, while Korb's logo seems
very active, and seems to be going in a couple of different directions
at once.  I think Korb's logo might benefit from a font with less
diagonals, which might make it seem more stable and less frenetic.

We have some designers where I work, and I will take them out to lunch
and get their input on the various logo's out there, and see if there
is anything they can add to the discussion.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread Sean De La Torre


I had never seen that before.  That's pretty bad.  I never even
considered that they would copy a logo from someone else.  That Beaver
Brewery logo used to be on the main page as one of their example logos.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread Erik Smartt


 2005/12/9, koorb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  I'm guessing you can't read my mind, so here's the link to
  http://koorb.co.uk/turbogears/ (it's 2:30am I need sleep ...)

I like the direction these are going.  Have you tried squeezing the
logo into a micro-button size?  (I'm partial to the 80x15 or 100x15
banners... maybe a 100x25.)

For reference, I think the Django guys have done a good job offering a
variety of sizes:
http://www.djangoproject.com/community/badges/

Cheers,
Erik

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0

2005-12-09 Thread Karl Guertin


On 12/9/05, Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What you get from someone like Jon Hicks is an incredible level of
 detail. Look at the Firefox, Thunderbird or even the Rails logo and
 you'll see what I mean. Or check out his samples:
 http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/

When I did the logo I was told to keep the 'G-gear-ball-thing' and to
adjust the color and font. I thought I was pushing it by redesigning
the G. A logo as complex as one of the ones cited is a much larger
departure from the original. I'll do a complex design over the next
day or two since that seems to be what everybody's looking for.

[TurboGears] Re: TurboGears visuals for 0.9/1.0