At 10:51 AM 12/8/00 -0800, Paul wrote:
--- Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'd rather see us find some way to churn out perl and mod_perl
programmers. For instance, release a beginner class on Perl and
mod_perl and have local Perlmongers lead classes. I have my slides
Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Interestingly, I recall sitting in on one of Bruce's courses at Web98 (We
were teaching CGI/Perl for a day and he was teaching Intensive Java the day
before)... Bruce said he has tried to learn Perl but just couldn't wrap his
head around it.
If
At 08:26 PM 12/5/00 +, Matt Sergeant wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Eric Strovink wrote:
A number of people have been beating around this bush, so why not just
mow it down?
A huge win for advocacy would be a small set of complete example
applications targetted at, say, the last two
At 09:13 PM 12/5/00 +0100, you wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Eric Strovink wrote:
A number of people have been beating around this bush, so why not just
mow it down?
A huge win for advocacy would be a small set of complete example
applications targetted at, say, the last two RedHat
One simple question please.
How do you differentiate between perl programmers amd Mod_perl
programmers?
Thanks
Stas Bekman wrote:
I've dropped my last job, in order to finally finish the mod_perl book,
have some rest and make a push to mod_perl.
Well best of luck hope you have
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, harilaos wrote:
One simple question please.
How do you differentiate between perl programmers amd Mod_perl
programmers?
If you are in a public transportation and you happen to overhear this kind
of discussion:
"...all children were running and refused to respond. I've
The mod_perl programmer has no hair left.
:)
At 11:19 AM 12/8/2000 +, harilaos wrote:
One simple question please.
How do you differentiate between perl programmers amd Mod_perl
programmers?
Thanks
Stas Bekman wrote:
I've dropped my last job, in order to finally finish the mod_perl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Matt Sergeant wrote:
snippage
I'd love that. In fact anything that anyone had waiting to go onto
PerlMonth please drop a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and we'll get you
published. (assuming that PerlMonth isn't going to resurrect itself)
At 08:13 08/12/2000 +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
The could be although ActiveState has a product that competes with mod_perl
on the NT side called PerlEx.
What is too bad about the silence about the relationship is that PerlEx as
a product could really benefit from evolving upon the back of
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Greg Cope wrote:
I'd love that. In fact anything that anyone had waiting to go onto
PerlMonth please drop a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and we'll get you
published. (assuming that PerlMonth isn't going to resurrect itself)
Actually its kinda has been
--- Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'd rather see us find some way to churn out perl and mod_perl
programmers. For instance, release a beginner class on Perl and
mod_perl and have local Perlmongers lead classes. I have my slides
from the University of Perl, which I'd
Patrick wrote:
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 03:52:01PM +0100, Stas Bekman took time to write:
Your problem is that you try to use the precompiled broken packages
provided by distros.
If I can jump... I must say that I *never* had a problem with Debian
packages of mod_perl. Maybe RedHat
Jim Winstead wrote:
(of course, this only addresses scaling to a breadth of users, not
scaling into the enterprise area. that just requires real marketing
and hype.)
I saw an article in the Financial Times the other day. Some people have
written a "Fax your MP[1]" gateway
kyle dawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 05:52, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
6. Engineering
The Perl community is made up of a truly eclectic group of people, which
is an amazing strength. However, it's also an amazing weakness: I get
the impression that very few
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
"Gunther" == Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gunther This is exactly why someone experienced in training (ie
Gunther Randal/StoneHenge) would hopefully be the ones to take the
Gunther torch on this. If there's anyone I would trust
Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 14:07 06/12/2000 -0500, kyle dawkins wrote:
Ok, you're missing my point but that's partially my fault for not explaining.
First, let me agree: Java's "everything is an object" mentality sucks
balls. And yes, Perl's duality of functional/OO is
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 01:22:26PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
"Gunther" == Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gunther This is exactly why someone experienced in training (ie
Gunther Randal/StoneHenge) would hopefully be the ones to take the
Gunther torch on this. If there's
Installing:
I've installed mod_perl twice in the last month. The first time was on Solaris
and was quite painless. The second time was on RH 7.0, and was fairly painful.
Took most of a day of futzing around to finally get it installed and working. I
ran into two problems, first the
J. J. Horner writes:
I'd be interested in something like this.
Certification is a quagmire. If it's done well, it takes a lot of
work by the certification authority, and that makes it expensive for
those certified. If it's done poorly, it's useless and is just a
moneymaker for the
By the way, does mod_perl have a "board of directors"? If there was a
mod_perl consortium backing mod_perl (Merlyn, Lincoln, Doug, Stas
etc) formally, I'm sure we could get some pretty serious notice.
Yes, it's called Project Management Committee (pmc) and currently the
members are Doug,
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 03:58:48PM +0100, Stas Bekman wrote:
By the way, does mod_perl have a "board of directors"? If there was a
mod_perl consortium backing mod_perl (Merlyn, Lincoln, Doug, Stas
etc) formally, I'm sure we could get some pretty serious notice.
Yes, it's called
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, J. J. Horner wrote:
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 03:58:48PM +0100, Stas Bekman wrote:
By the way, does mod_perl have a "board of directors"? If there was a
mod_perl consortium backing mod_perl (Merlyn, Lincoln, Doug, Stas
etc) formally, I'm sure we could get some
At 07:56 07/12/2000 -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
I'd rather see us find some way to churn out perl and mod_perl
programmers. For instance, release a beginner class on Perl and
mod_perl and have local Perlmongers lead classes. I have my slides
from the University of Perl, which I'd contribute
at a time earlier than now, Stas Bekman wrote:
Installing:
What's so complicated about this:
% cd /usr/src
% lwp-download http://www.apache.org/dist/apache_x.x.x.tar.gz
% lwp-download http://perl.apache.org/dist/mod_perl-x.xx.tar.gz
% tar xzvf apache_x.x.x.tar.gz
% tar xzvf
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Nathan Torkington wrote:
J. J. Horner writes:
I'd be interested in something like this.
Certification is a quagmire. If it's done well, it takes a lot of
work by the certification authority, and that makes it expensive for
those certified. If it's done poorly, it's
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 07:56:09AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
J. J. Horner writes:
I'd be interested in something like this.
Certification is a quagmire. If it's done well, it takes a lot of
work by the certification authority, and that makes it expensive for
those certified. If
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 07:56:09AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
J. J. Horner writes:
I'd be interested in something like this.
Certification is a quagmire. If it's done well, it takes a lot of
work by the certification authority, and that makes it expensive for
those certified. If
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 03:52:01PM +0100, Stas Bekman wrote:
What's so complicated about this:
When everything goes right, and when you happen to have lwp installed
and a tar that uncompresses :-).
Seems like a good process to encode in a build_my_mod_perl.pl, FWIW.
- Barrie
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Robin Berjon wrote:
At 07:56 07/12/2000 -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
I'd rather see us find some way to churn out perl and mod_perl
programmers. For instance, release a beginner class on Perl and
mod_perl and have local Perlmongers lead classes. I have my slides
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 03:52:01PM +0100, Stas Bekman took time to write:
Your problem is that you try to use the precompiled broken packages
provided by distros.
If I can jump... I must say that I *never* had a problem with Debian
packages of mod_perl. Maybe RedHat packages have (don't known
On 7 Dec 2000, David Hodgkinson wrote:
Development are two of the bibles. I have to say though,
I've avoided the Design Patterns type books purely
because of the C++/Java bias.
you sure are missing out.
-
To unsubscribe,
On 7 Dec 2000, David Hodgkinson wrote:
[...]
Do it on line, for free (or real cheap)? OK so it'd be multiple-guess
most of the time, but peer review of submitted coursework too?
Then I like mjd's "certification" much much better.
Certification done right doesn't matter. Certification not
On Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:33, you wrote:
On 7 Dec 2000, David Hodgkinson wrote:
Development are two of the bibles. I have to say though,
I've avoided the Design Patterns type books purely
because of the C++/Java bias.
you sure are missing out.
I second that. You should lose your
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Matt Sergeant wrote:
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Robin Berjon wrote:
At 07:56 07/12/2000 -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
I'd rather see us find some way to churn out perl and mod_perl
programmers. For instance, release a beginner class on Perl and
mod_perl and have
What about working with ActiveState? I know they were primarily Windows
focused, but they now have Linux and Solaris versions of Perl pre compiled.
mod_perl can now be gotten to work with the latest ActivePerl build (622) for
Windows.
(thanks to Randy Kobes, or at least I think that is who has
The could be although ActiveState has a product that competes with mod_perl
on the NT side called PerlEx.
What is too bad about the silence about the relationship is that PerlEx as
a product could really benefit from evolving upon the back of a mod_perl
code base.
...In terms of rapidly
I would agree. If you want to see design patterns in practical action with
relation to mod_perl.. go to
http://www.extropia.com/ExtropiaObjects/
and skim through Chapters 10 (App Architecture) and on (on the individual
app toolkit components). Each one contains a sidebar on how design
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, kyle dawkins wrote:
[1. two types of developer]
agreed.
[2. Perl4 / Perl5 ]
This is also true. Although a lot of "Perl programmers" haven't got a clue
about the object orientation stuff in Perl5 either. On the other side of
the coin, too many people are jumping on the "It's
Stas Bekman wrote:
Well as you've probably figured out, based on the load of email from me,
I've dropped my last job, in order to finally finish the mod_perl book,
have some rest and make a push to mod_perl.
Well best of luck hope you have a good rest - I'll certainly buy the
book!
In
Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, kyle dawkins wrote:
* We implement a "mode" under mod_perl, kind of like "use strict", that
suddenly forces Perl to behave well from an object-oriented standpoint. By
this, I mean taking some of the power away from Perl that causes
I've dropped my last job, in order to finally finish the mod_perl book,
have some rest and make a push to mod_perl.
Well best of luck hope you have a good rest - I'll certainly buy the
book!
:)
I see two main streams:
1) Online zines.
2) Conferences.
I think that we
Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yeah, but I don't seem to make other interested. I don't know why. Folks
are too busy I guess.
It's blogger syndrome. You need to do it in parallel with the
development. The only reason my mod_perl/FastCGI comparison got
written was because those nice
I've been following along with this thread with interest, expecially since I'm
new to the mod_perl list and community (thanks for all the help so far!). I
thought you might be interesed in a 'mod_perl newbie' opinion.
Recently I was handed an online event calendar running under CGI and asked to
I've always considered mod_perl similar to an artist's canvas, while Java is more like
a craftsman's tool kit.
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Dec 05, Greg Cope wrote:
But, you all know that php pretty much takes over. Why? For two reasons:
1) initial corporate pushing (press/ads)
2) once well known, the word of the mouth does the rest.
Well go back 2 / 2 1/2 years and PHP was little known.
what is even funnier is that if
On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 05:52, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
6. Engineering
The Perl community is made up of a truly eclectic group of people, which
is an amazing strength. However, it's also an amazing weakness: I get
the impression that very few programmers in the Perl community spend a
At 14:07 06/12/2000 -0500, kyle dawkins wrote:
Ok, you're missing my point but that's partially my fault for not explaining.
First, let me agree: Java's "everything is an object" mentality sucks
balls. And yes, Perl's duality of functional/OO is really nice. Taking that
away is not what I
"Gunther" == Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gunther This is exactly why someone experienced in training (ie
Gunther Randal/StoneHenge) would hopefully be the ones to take the
Gunther torch on this. If there's anyone I would trust a
Gunther certification from, it would be them.
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 09:32:41AM -0800, brian moseley wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Stas Bekman wrote:
But, you all know that php pretty much takes over. Why? For two reasons:
1) initial corporate pushing (press/ads)
2) once well known, the word of the mouth does the rest.
oh, there's
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Ben Thompson wrote:
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 09:32:41AM -0800, brian moseley wrote:
if you really feel the need to compete with php in the
lowest tier web app space, you need to make simplicity your
#1 goal. php is awesome entry level technology, and i almost
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Stas Bekman wrote:
I see two main streams:
1) Online zines.
I think that we should start working on locating ezines wanting to publish
mod_perl related articles (preferrably for a fee, to give incentives for
others to write)
While I can't offer any money for articles
Well as you've probably figured out, based on the load of email from me,
I've dropped my last job, in order to finally finish the mod_perl book,
have some rest and make a push to mod_perl.
Yesterday I've updated the stats page:
http://perl.apache.org/netcraft/ and the results are so-so, we go
Stas Bekman writes:
sb Luckily Matt has got sick of waiting for someone to work on the
sb advocacy of mod_perl and he has just taken over it. Having a
sb good informational site is good, but it's not enough. We need to
sb solve the problem of people to find this site and wanting to use
At 03:49 PM 12/5/00 +0100, Stas Bekman wrote:
Well as you've probably figured out, based on the load of email from me,
I've dropped my last job, in order to finally finish the mod_perl book,
have some rest and make a push to mod_perl.
Yesterday I've updated the stats page:
kevin montuori wrote:
additionally, i think that some consideration should be given to
how mod_perl is packaged.
I think it's of crucial importance the fact that a distro as widespread
as RHLinux 6.x had mod_perl messed up. That has forced quite a lot of
developers that
It'd be nice if there was an equivalent of info's "h"...
i.e., an "I've got Linux, what next?" track
That might seriously encourage more hobbyists =+
more open source community
(is there a way to indicate that the operator
should be read backwards?)
kevin montuori [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
additionally, i think that some consideration should be given to
how mod_perl is packaged. although it's well documented (and
generally quite simple) there are three kits that need to be
compiled (apache, perl, mod_perl)
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:46:38PM +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
Maybe Randal's company (which I *think* specializes in training among other
things) could help in that area -- the idea of mod_perl certification is
more intriguing I think than just plain perl certification.
Now this is
--- Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.
I see two main streams:
1) Online zines.
2) Conferences.
Apache.org has a whole subsection devoted to mod_perl
Any idea what it would take to get a link there from webs like tpj and
Perl.com? I was thinking that perl.com has a nice series
config procedures... The author also mentions
plans to port it to Perl!
Rufus.
-Original Message-
From: kevin montuori [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 3:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RFC: mod_perl advocacy project resurrection
Stas Bekman writes
David Hodgkinson writes:
dh Is the RH7.0 installation stable? It comes with everything as a
dh DSO and _should_ work...
hmmm, if i could get RH7.0 to *install* i could check that out.
anaconda (read: python) can't find it's POSIX libs, so the whole
thing's a bust from
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Stas Bekman wrote:
But, you all know that php pretty much takes over. Why? For two reasons:
1) initial corporate pushing (press/ads)
2) once well known, the word of the mouth does the rest.
oh, there's also the part about php being so much easier to
setup and to program
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 03:54:36PM +, David Hodgkinson wrote:
Is the RH7.0 installation stable? It comes with everything as a DSO
and _should_ work...
That's the problem: DSOs aren't stable enough, so it all too often
doesn't just work :(.
martin langhoff wrote:
snip.
Another item that we should really have is a good (and somehow
sanctioned) RPM that replaces the apache rpm (or deb) included in broken
distros. Then we can include in the guide and related pages a link for
[broken-distro-name] users, so they get a
Stas Bekman writes:
Luckily Matt has got sick of waiting for someone to work on the advocacy
of mod_perl and he has just taken over it. Having a good informational
site is good, but it's not enough. We need to solve the problem of people
to find this site and wanting to use mod_perl.
Paul writes:
Any idea what it would take to get a link there from webs like tpj and
Perl.com?
Those two I can easily make happen. Send me email saying what you
want a link to, and what you want the link to say.
Writers for perl.com are always wanted. Pitch your article ideas to
[EMAIL
mod_perl is NOT PHP. It wasn't meant to be.
PHP allows for embedding a scripting language inside of HTML and allows for some
"neat" things. It is also I believe easier to install and setup then a related
mod_perl server.
Reasons/questions of new users:
1) You have to get all kinds of modules
-Original Message-
From: Ajit Deshpande [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 12:19 PM
To: kevin montuori
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RFC: mod_perl advocacy project resurrection
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 10:51:08AM -0500, kevin montuori wrote
additionally, i think that some consideration should be given to
how mod_perl is packaged.
I know that S.u.S.E. Linux (at least the german version) include a Apache
with mod_perl as DSO ( but I never have tried it, I always compiled
Apache/Perl/mod_perl etc. from the source), but
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Nathan Torkington wrote:
I picture only 10% of people who build web sites ever
needing to use mod_perl directly. I think they're more
likely to use the systems that are built *in* mod_perl,
like Mason, AxKit, and so on. If there's a with a lot
of information about
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Aaron Johnson wrote:
I am all for advocating the use of mod_perl, but the
basics of setup, install and usability are always going
to be key.
really? how many people actually need to configure and
install mod_perl itself? how many people simply need a
really simple
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Gerald Richter wrote:
I know that S.u.S.E. Linux (at least the german version)
include a Apache with mod_perl as DSO ( but I never have
tried it, I always compiled Apache/Perl/mod_perl etc.
from the source), but they neither have included any of
the Apache::* modules or
A number of people have been beating around this bush, so why not just mow it down?
A huge win for advocacy would be a small set of complete example applications
targetted at, say, the last two RedHat distros. Each application should install
itself -- .conf files, .htaccess files, dbm's,
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, brian moseley wrote:
i don't have figures, but from experience i know - once i've compiled
httpd, i have almost no real configuration work to do with php. on the
other hand, if i want to set up mason, i have to write 10-20 lines of
perl code and access them with
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Eric Strovink wrote:
A number of people have been beating around this bush, so why not just
mow it down?
A huge win for advocacy would be a small set of complete example
applications targetted at, say, the last two RedHat distros. Each
application should install
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Eric Strovink wrote:
A number of people have been beating around this bush, so why not just
mow it down?
A huge win for advocacy would be a small set of complete example
applications targetted at, say, the last two RedHat distros. Each
application should install itself
i don't have figures, but from experience i know - once i've
compiled httpd, i have almost no real configuration work to
do with php. on the other hand, if i want to set up mason, i
have to write 10-20 lines of perl code and access them with
PerlModule or PerlRequire. if i want multiple
Eric Strovink wrote:
A number of people have been beating around this bush, so why not just mow it down?
A huge win for advocacy would be a small set of complete example applications
targetted at, say, the last two RedHat distros.
I see a suitable target there ... maybe a SRPM
kevin montuori ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said something to this effect:
David Hodgkinson writes:
prebuilt solves the problem nicely for people running linux;
however, that's not everybody. i'm sure there are sun shops out
there without the sysadmin expertise to download and
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:26:35PM +, Matt Sergeant wrote:
application should install itself -- .conf files, .htaccess files,
dbm's, directory structures, perl code, html and templates, correct
version of Perl, CPAN packages for any stuff needed, Apache, mod_perl,
mod_ssl,
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Ajit Deshpande wrote:
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:26:35PM +, Matt Sergeant wrote:
application should install itself -- .conf files, .htaccess files,
dbm's, directory structures, perl code, html and templates, correct
version of Perl, CPAN packages for any stuff
Everybody
This whole call for mod_perl advocacy is definitely a good thing. But we're
not going to get anywhere unless we understand the problem in detail. We can
run around all we like talking numbers and touting the virtues of mod_perl
but it's not going to actually do anything unless we
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 04:14:13PM -0500, darren chamberlain wrote:
Perhaps the solution is a complete, precompiled package, something that
has Perl, Apache, mod_perl, and all the required modules prebuilt, in
various formats: RPM, deb, tgz, Solaris pkg, and just regular tarballs.
Exactly,
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Ajit Deshpande wrote:
IMHO, it shouldnt be that difficult if you make some
good assumptions. For example, how difficult will it be
to maintain the following package:
1. Assume Perl 5.5.3 OR 5.6.0
2. Assume latest Apache and static mod_perl
3. Assume latest
I think the issue is Perl for web applications advocacy rather than
mod_perl advocacy. If more people thought using Perl for web apps was
cooler and easier than using PHP, then they would use Perl and then
graduate to mod_perl when they were ready.
As it is, PHP has 1-up on CGI/Perl. PHP is
Certification's are really hard and really expensive to do and
pretty much crap even done well. We don't want anything to do with
it.
(IMO)
- ask
If you want to check if someone's certifiable, just search for their name in the
archives of this list.
Anyone you would want to hire
This is exactly why someone experienced in training (ie Randal/StoneHenge)
would hopefully be the ones to take the torch on this. If there's anyone I
would trust a certification from, it would be them.
At 02:07 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Stas Bekman wrote:
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, kyle dawkins wrote:
* We need to drop-kick DBI out of the park... it's not that it's bad (it's
actually great... kudos to the DBI crew) but kind of the opposite; it's so
easy to use that most people don't think beyond it. How many of you have
ever thought about
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
I think the issue is Perl for web applications advocacy
rather than mod_perl advocacy. If more people thought
using Perl for web apps was cooler and easier than using
PHP, then they would use Perl and then graduate to
mod_perl when they were
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Stas Bekman wrote:
[...]
May be we could organize some certification classes, to give more PR to
mod_perl.
Certification's are really hard and really expensive to do and
pretty much crap even done well. We don't want anything to do with
it.
(IMO)
- ask
--
ask bjoern
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