[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : Who is this Bawwy? Good question. I can't figure it out, can you? Yeah, straight away actually. And why would you care? On some level I don't and on another level I care in the same way I care that some idiot is intent on walking in front of a train or insists on making a fool of themselves in public Judy just likes arguing. Are you so blind to what she's like, did you not read the rest of this exchange? Now that is funny. And Bawwy isn't just the most repetitive, uninteresting boor? I mean, honestly, even in England they have these kinds of dweebs, I've seen them so you can't pretend that you don't know better. Judy can be unrelenting but Bawwy is a waste of space. Read a bit closer, he's bombastic sure but he's very often right about people and what's going on around here. And he has a lot of original ideas and ways of looking at things that give you a new perspective. FFL would be way poorer without him. What would you talk about for a start? ;-) Maybe it's because you've never had an opinion contrary to hers that you don't know what a pointless exercise it is talking to her about anything when she falls back on tricks like this. No, I just don't care to tangle with her and we happen to agree on quite a bit. There are subjects that she talks about I am either ignorant about or have no interest in so I shut up about them. It is up to you if you want to engage with her. She can appreciate a good point with the best of them but she isn't afraid to tell it like she sees it. And if she doesn't see it, she'll tell it anyway. I don't always agree but in most cases don't need to pick any fights. Bottom line: the woman terrifies me. I'm sure she's quite safe and not at all likely to get on a plane and pay you a home visit. That'd be funny, I'll probably wake up in the middle of the night with someone screaming It's Ed Feser, not Fess! Like I didn't read it right in the first place. I'm hardly the first person to try and try again but this is how it always ends. It's surreal. She doesn't like explaining herself, just huffing and puffing about how stupid everyone else is. read back through the years, go on. Check some of the jyotish conversations in particular. Hilarious. she just likes arguing. Go figure. I think she likes a good discussion and she can carry one with the best of them. Until she realises she hasn't got a leg left to stand on and resorts to withering sarcasm, endless nitpicks and irrelevances before trying to claim she doesn't believe in her position anyway and is just arguing for the hell of it. It's happened, honest. She just likes arguing. Even Willytex thinks so. Man, that's gotta hurt. Actually, if you go back and see some of her interactions with Bob P and/or Robin you will see some pretty interesting and very intelligent investigations. If you know where and how to mine her intelligence it usually produces gold. And as if I don't think before I write somethingduh. Like I haven't thought about how theism affects the current paradigm of western thought. Honestly.. as if. Frankly, I think you're one smart and interesting guy who has seen a good schwack of life and who has worked a lot of it through to arrive at a place where you seem fairly comfortable in your own skin. I would like to have a real face to face conversation with you and have a vigorous stroll around London. Flattery will get you everywhere. Tea and cakes on me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism or shut the fuck up. We're waiting.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Try to imagine someone so desperate for attention that they settle for trumped-up arguments instead of conversation. Now imagine someone so intellectually challenged that they try to do this without ever coming up with an argument of their own. Finally, imagine someone who, when called on this, has nothing to fall back on but trying to correct the person they're trying to get attention from about a nitpick. It's pretty difficult to imagine anyone more pitiable than Judy Stein, isn't it? Old, ugly, bitter, and she can't even ARGUE worth a damn any more. :-) From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:52 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous I see you are reduced to your usual nitpicking in order to mask the fact you have no argument. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : BTW, it's Feser, not Fess. I corrected you once on this already. It's not really such a difficult name to spell. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog
[FairfieldLife] Re: Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld discussing TM in a roadside cafe. It feels pretty unrehearsed.
Always nice to see hugely successful people also have that serious side and stick to meditation over a long period. As opposed to the pundits on FFL. The Jerry Seinfeld/Howard Stern talk is not a David Lynch production. This Jerry Seinfeld talk obviously is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YBt_H-J3GQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YBt_H-J3GQ And this with Jay Reno: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DGvWxbBOQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DGvWxbBOQg David Lynch Interviews Paul McCartney https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBat-hePWN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBat-hePWN0 The Howard Stern interview is a part of this series: Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee First episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4 Jerry Seinfeld Howard Stern - comedians in cars; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7V8EwubZFs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7V8EwubZFs Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee with Michael Richards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk4ez8hQobs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk4ez8hQobs Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t3KEyGBpzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t3KEyGBpzA Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee - George Costanza https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixvnsrv72G8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixvnsrv72G8 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E If feels like David Lynch or one of his people just asked them to set there and discuss TM as though it were a casual conversation. Of course, given David's ability to work with VCR cameras, it may have been a completely contrived, multi-take scene. L
[FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld discussing TM in a roadside cafe. It feels pretty unrehearsed.
I think you are wrong. This talk has very much the feel of some of the scenes of INLAND EMPIRE to it though I think it isn't staged past asking them to sit and talk. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Always nice to see hugely successful people also have that serious side and stick to meditation over a long period. As opposed to the pundits on FFL. The Jerry Seinfeld/Howard Stern talk is not a David Lynch production. This Jerry Seinfeld talk obviously is: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E If feels like David Lynch or one of his people just asked them to set there and discuss TM as though it were a casual conversation. Of course, given David's ability to work with VCR cameras, it may have been a completely contrived, multi-take scene. L
[FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating Community In the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
salyavin, it stopped me in my tracks here at the end when you say ...if it isn't measurable it isn't real. How about atoms? Were they unreal when they weren't measurable? Did they only become real when we became able to measure them? Of course these are rhetorical questions meant to make the point that I think one of the functions of science is to make measurable that which has been real all along but existing beyond the usual range of our senses. For this reason, I think some day science will *prove* the truth of many of the spiritual and some of the religious traditions. Meanwhile, people take it on faith. Why? Because maybe human intuition is the best scientific instrument of all! On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:24 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: Either you just made up what you attributed to me in a malicious attempt to make me look stupid, Yup, malicious that's me. You made yourself look stupid - not to mention exceptionally irritating - with your refusal to explain what you mean. See also our oft repeated jyotish discussion. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog that he uses the same lame argument about having to have read all types to know that you can discount them. Nonsense. If I was to say you have to have ridden every type of bicycle before you can say you don't like cycling what would you say? It's the concept dear. or your thinking has been going off in the wrong direction, at least where classical theism is concerned. Depends which version of classical theism you are talking about, there appear to be hundreds but I've no doubt they can all be adapted to avoid having to provide any actual evidence beyond the I want it to be like this variety. I repeat my usual position that applies to all theism. It's unnecessary so why bother? That's a fab encapsulation by the way, not as elegant as Xeno but it sure is succinct. There is no conflict whatsoever between classical theism and science, including the laws of physics You may have found a version that doesn't but I can assure you that any god that has these qualities. 1. Transcendence 2. Omnipotence 3. Omniscience 4. Omnipresence 5. Absolute Benevolence but doesn't, or never has, interfered with his creation is missing a trick. The funny thing about the universe is that it looks exactly as one would if it wasn't made by a god with these classical theistic qualities. Odd that. But please don't write back with another but you don't understand, my god is different... it's the concept. I'm sure Ed Fess can wriggle his way round it with some other version but I really don't care. I convert for evidence. And necessity would count as a form of evidence. And there is no necessity, as well as the other major evidential problems. And like that we have a much better explanation. So really, why bother? Unless you want to. and if you want to, fine. Here's how science works. Someone has a model of how they think the world works - an old one is that the earth is the centre of the universe and everything else revolves round it. Looks good from a position standing on the Earth's surface but if you measure the way planets move you find you have a really complex set of mathematical calculations to make so you can make predictions about where they will be in the future. Sometime later someone thought that maybe the Earth isn't the centre of the universe and that everything went round the sun. Voila! all of a sudden things made more sense, and the universe had become simpler to explain. Simplicity in explanations is good. That's been going on for centuries, new measurements reveal that an old model of the universe is inadequate so a new one has to be drawn up. That process will continue until someone puts down their electron microscope and says that's it. Finished. Until that glorious day (if it ever happens) anyone with an idea that improves upon an old one has to provide a superior explanation to the one they are replacing. This will get accepted as the new paradigm. Simples. I ask myself what contribution the many versions of classical theism (or any sort - they are much of a muchness to me) is actually making that improves on what we have. Seems like not much, but as it concerns a prime mover it would have to be fundamental wouldn't it? It also seems to me that classical theism would be one of the early models that got superceded. If it was real it would be kind of hard for an accurate model to function without it I would have thought. But it determinedly refuses to be measurable except as something people want to be true. So the only way it isn't in conflict with science is because it isn't measurable. And if it isn't measurable it isn't real. It's the concept, it's wrong.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Buck, when I think of charismatic I think of fire and brimstone preachers, etc. Maharishi spoke the plain truth and did not need such theatrics imo. He was a true leader in that sense. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:20 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Doug (Buck) obviously has pretty low standards when it comes to charisma. Based on my own experience -- both with Maharishi and with other teachers since -- I would have to say that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had about the same level of charisma as my plumber. And my plumber charges less. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
turq, I think the highest form of charisma is not needing charisma at all. And imo Maharishi exemplified this highest form. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:56 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Doug (Buck) obviously has pretty low standards when it comes to charisma. Based on my own experience -- both with Maharishi and with other teachers since -- I would have to say that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had about the same level of charisma as my plumber. And my plumber charges less. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
The Turq didn't see any charisma because he was in the TMO for other reasons than being attentive, the party and the broads, as he has told us ad nauseum. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Doug (Buck) obviously has pretty low standards when it comes to charisma. Based on my own experience -- both with Maharishi and with other teachers since -- I would have to say that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had about the same level of charisma as my plumber. And my plumber charges less. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Maharishi certainly didn't have to be charming to impress anyone. But anyone who met still commented on his charisma, not counting the dull or drugged-out of which we have a few experts here :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Nablusoss, maybe it's more accurate to say that Mahairishi redefined charisma to mean someone who speaks the plain truth and thus awakens it in the listeners rather than someone who uses theatrics, etc. to persuade audiences. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:01 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: The Turq didn't see any charisma because he was in the TMO for other reasons than being attentive, the party and the broads, as he has told us ad nauseum. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Doug (Buck) obviously has pretty low standards when it comes to charisma. Based on my own experience -- both with Maharishi and with other teachers since -- I would have to say that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had about the same level of charisma as my plumber. And my plumber charges less. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Yes that evidently goes back to the possible range of human behavior, including the NPD'ed. The so-called charismatic preacher could be a good example of that too. I feel Weber's more scholarly definition is better for our larger purposes of spiritual discussion here. It is more inclusive of what we see as spiritual saints, leaders and teachers spiritually than the image of some theatrical style of preaching. Weber's definition of charismatic better takes into account a scale of field affect ranging from a NPD preacher, Turqb's plumber or to the jagad caliber saint we also know. That range all got rendered down a while ago here, https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370672 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370672 -Buck sharelong60 writes: Buck, when I think of charismatic I think of fire and brimstone preachers, etc. Maharishi spoke the plain truth and did not need such theatrics imo. He was a true leader in that sense. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:20 AM, Buck wrote: Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld discussing TM in a roadside cafe. It feels pretty unrehearsed.
I'm afraid your feeling is irrelevant. Like I said this is a series of interviews Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee made by Jerry Seinfeld. David Lynch had nothing to do with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I think you are wrong. This talk has very much the feel of some of the scenes of INLAND EMPIRE to it though I think it isn't staged past asking them to sit and talk. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Always nice to see hugely successful people also have that serious side and stick to meditation over a long period. As opposed to the pundits on FFL. The Jerry Seinfeld/Howard Stern talk is not a David Lynch production. This Jerry Seinfeld talk obviously is: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VvNJiFI-E If feels like David Lynch or one of his people just asked them to set there and discuss TM as though it were a casual conversation. Of course, given David's ability to work with VCR cameras, it may have been a completely contrived, multi-take scene. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, it stopped me in my tracks here at the end when you say ...if it isn't measurable it isn't real. How about atoms? Were they unreal when they weren't measurable? No, they were always measurable, we just didn't have the technology to do it. Did they only become real when we became able to measure them? Of course these are rhetorical questions meant to make the point that I think one of the functions of science is to make measurable that which has been real all along but existing beyond the usual range of our senses. For this reason, I think some day science will *prove* the truth of many of the spiritual and some of the religious traditions. You never know your luck, so far it looks like the opposite is true. But people will always claim they have been vindicated if they can. Look at all the quantum mystics there are. How serious to take them? Basically, if you see the word quantum outside of a physics textbook, ignore it. Meanwhile, people take it on faith. Why? Because maybe human intuition is the best scientific instrument of all! It's great at some things. In the occasions in my life that I've ignored my inner voice things have gone always wrong. It's like our conscious ways of working out what to do are woefully inadequate compared to our instinctive selves. I don't think it works at all beyond our own personal experiences. I would say that the only people who ever came up with a good cosmological theory without the ability to test it (like the Greek speculation about atoms - it's Greek for indivisible) got there more by luck and never knew if they were right or not. Which is why there are so many different revealed versions of the truth... On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:24 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: Either you just made up what you attributed to me in a malicious attempt to make me look stupid, Yup, malicious that's me. You made yourself look stupid - not to mention exceptionally irritating - with your refusal to explain what you mean. See also our oft repeated jyotish discussion. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog that he uses the same lame argument about having to have read all types to know that you can discount them. Nonsense. If I was to say you have to have ridden every type of bicycle before you can say you don't like cycling what would you say? It's the concept dear. or your thinking has been going off in the wrong direction, at least where classical theism is concerned. Depends which version of classical theism you are talking about, there appear to be hundreds but I've no doubt they can all be adapted to avoid having to provide any actual evidence beyond the I want it to be like this variety. I repeat my usual position that applies to all theism. It's unnecessary so why bother? That's a fab encapsulation by the way, not as elegant as Xeno but it sure is succinct. There is no conflict whatsoever between classical theism and science, including the laws of physics You may have found a version that doesn't but I can assure you that any god that has these qualities. Transcendence Omnipotence Omniscience Omnipresence Absolute Benevolence but doesn't, or never has, interfered with his creation is missing a trick. The funny thing about the universe is that it looks exactly as one would if it wasn't made by a god with these classical theistic qualities. Odd that. But please don't write back with another but you don't understand, my god is different... it's the concept. I'm sure Ed Fess can wriggle his way round it with some other version but I really don't care. I convert for evidence. And necessity would count as a form of evidence. And there is no necessity, as well as the other major evidential problems. And like that we have a much better explanation. So really, why bother? Unless you want to. and if you want to, fine. Here's how science works. Someone has a model of how they think the world works - an old one is that the earth is the centre of the universe and everything else revolves round it. Looks good from a position standing on the Earth's surface but if you measure the way planets move you find you have a really complex set of mathematical calculations to make so you can make predictions about where they will be in the future. Sometime later someone thought that maybe the Earth isn't the centre of the universe and that everything went round the sun. Voila! all of a sudden things made more sense, and the universe had become simpler to explain. Simplicity in explanations is good. That's been going on for centuries, new measurements reveal that an old model of the universe is inadequate so a new one has to be drawn up. That process will continue until someone
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class: http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 10:23 AM Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions, If you want to learn use youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class: http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 10:23 AM Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Buck, when I think of charismatic I think of fire and brimstone preachers, etc. Maharishi spoke the plain truth and did not need such theatrics imo. He was a true leader in that sense. Interesting. That makes me think you have never been near a charismatic person. Actually, in my experience charismatic means supremely engaging, almost seductive, in an ability to keep you riveted to the spot. Charisma has an effect of totally making you want to stay as close to that person's energy as possible. It is a wonderful feeling but also a dangerous one because if the charismatic is also off their rocker or simply charismatic without other redeeming qualities then you could be hooped until you can get out from under the spell. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:20 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions, If you want to learn use youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class: http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fall-at-mum.html http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 10:23 AM Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : Flattery will get you everywhere. Tea and cakes on me! It's a deal.
[FairfieldLife] Happy Tax Day!
In general, I am opposed to taxation, in particular income tax and property tax and most sales taxes as well. There is no income tax where I live and the sales tax is aroun 8%, compared to 14% in Canada. However, I would be willing to pay my fair share of a flat tax on income - about 1%. Go figure. American-style capitalism promises higher living standards overall in exchange for higher individual risks; faster growth rates in exchange for greater inequality; lower unemployment rates in exchange for fewer workplace protections; more liberty for innovators and entrepreneurs in exchange for somewhat less solidarity-as-redistribution. 'The Case Against Higher Taxes' New York Times: http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/douthat/2014/04/15/the-case-against-higher-taxes/?from=douthat http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/douthat/2014/04/15/the-case-against-higher-taxes/?from=douthat 'How Much Are You Willing to Pay in Taxes?' http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-15/how-much-are-you-willing-to-pay-in-taxes http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-15/how-much-are-you-willing-to-pay-in-taxes
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
All hail Raja Ram! On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:31 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions, If you want to learn use youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class: http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 10:23 AM Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : In general, I am opposed to taxation, in particular income tax and property tax and most sales taxes as well. There is no income tax where I live and the sales tax is aroun 8%, compared to 14% in Canada. 5% GST and 7% PST in BC, actually, and some things have only 5% on them but GST is Goods and Services so that means not just stuff but labor/service is taxed as well. However, I would be willing to pay my fair share of a flat tax on income - about 1%. Go figure. I figure that is not much in anybody's method of doing math.
[FairfieldLife] Re: !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Apparently MJ has been kicked out of MUM for failing to attend any classes - I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually banned from setting foot on the campus - after they read his messages on the internet. He's more into Chinese communist Kung Fu these days, I guess. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions, If you want to learn use youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Nablusoss, maybe it's more accurate to say that Mahairishi redefined charisma to mean someone who speaks the plain truth and thus awakens it in the listeners rather than someone who uses theatrics, etc. to persuade audiences. Now I am sure you have not been in the presence of a charismatic person. It has absolutely nothing to do with theatrics. It is all about the energy that emanates from that person and it contains power, and it is not overblown or dramatic. It is quiet and pervasive. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:01 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: The Turq didn't see any charisma because he was in the TMO for other reasons than being attentive, the party and the broads, as he has told us ad nauseum. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Doug (Buck) obviously has pretty low standards when it comes to charisma. Based on my own experience -- both with Maharishi and with other teachers since -- I would have to say that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had about the same level of charisma as my plumber. And my plumber charges less. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
...if it isn't measurable it isn't real. How about atoms? There are to my knowledge no scientists on this discussion group, so what you are reading Share is about metaphysics, not about science. In Indian metaphysics, if some proposition or statement is found to be self-contradictory, it doesn't exist. For example, if you see a thief at night, and then you realize in the light, that it was just a fence post, then the thief didn't exist - except in your mind. The presentation of the mistaken theif is real because it was presented to you, but it was not real in the absolute sense - it was an illusion, not real, yet not unreal either. Almost the whole of Indian metaphysics is based on the notion of the illusion aspect of the world of the senses. So the only way it isn't in conflict with science is because it isn't measurable. And if it isn't measurable it isn't real. It's the concept, it's wrong.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Try to imagine someone so desperate for attention that they settle for made-up claims about witnessing their guru levitate hundreds of times. And, instead of conversation, making even bolder claims about their guru being able to generate golden light to fill a lecture hall filled with thousands of trance-induction inductees. Go figure. And, then try to imagine a stage-magic conversation with The Amazing Randi. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Try to imagine someone so desperate for attention that they settle for trumped-up arguments instead of conversation.ore. :-) I see you are reduced to your usual nitpicking in order to mask the fact you have no argument.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Actually Richard, I think you are speaking about 2 kinds of mistakes. The phrase son of a barren woman represents a logical impossibility, a self contradiction. But mistaking the fence post for a thief is a mistake of perception. About this you are correct in that the person truly perceived a thief. But the perception itself was later discovered to have been mistaken. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:10 AM, pundits...@gmail.com pundits...@gmail.com wrote: ...if it isn't measurable it isn't real. How about atoms? There are to my knowledge no scientists on this discussion group, so what you are reading Share is about metaphysics, not about science. In Indian metaphysics, if some proposition or statement is found to be self-contradictory, it doesn't exist. For example, if you see a thief at night, and then you realize in the light, that it was just a fence post, then the thief didn't exist - except in your mind. The presentation of the mistaken theif is real because it was presented to you, but it was not real in the absolute sense - it was an illusion, not real, yet not unreal either. Almost the whole of Indian metaphysics is based on the notion of the illusion aspect of the world of the senses. So the only way it isn't in conflict with science is because it isn't measurable. And if it isn't measurable it isn't real. It's the concept, it's wrong.
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Well.. I guess it's a good thing I don't live in Fairfield. I'd just wet my pants with all that excitement! On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:54 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: All hail Raja Ram! On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:31 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions, If you want to learn use youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class: http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 10:23 AM Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Ann, I think I've mainly been in the presence of healthy or developed charismatic people like Martin Luther King. My guess is that charisma is a gift that can easily be misused and thus the world has known many unhealthy or undeveloped charismatic people, like Hitler. But I would also say that a charismatic person can be mainly either quiet or expressive. For example, I'd put Fr. Keating in the group of healthy, quiet charismatic people whereas I'd put MLK in the group of healthy, expressive charismatics. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:10 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Nablusoss, maybe it's more accurate to say that Mahairishi redefined charisma to mean someone who speaks the plain truth and thus awakens it in the listeners rather than someone who uses theatrics, etc. to persuade audiences. Now I am sure you have not been in the presence of a charismatic person. It has absolutely nothing to do with theatrics. It is all about the energy that emanates from that person and it contains power, and it is not overblown or dramatic. It is quiet and pervasive. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:01 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: The Turq didn't see any charisma because he was in the TMO for other reasons than being attentive, the party and the broads, as he has told us ad nauseum. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Doug (Buck) obviously has pretty low standards when it comes to charisma. Based on my own experience -- both with Maharishi and with other teachers since -- I would have to say that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi had about the same level of charisma as my plumber. And my plumber charges less. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing Jeezus X-mas, Not at all Charismatic? You evidently did not get to spend much time around Maharishi. That's a pity. This is a good working definition of charismatic .. . Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader. 1 By experience, -U.S. Buck in the Dome .. .sharelong60 asserts: Thanks, Nablusoss, wonderful to hear Maharishi who's not at all charismatic. And I mean that as a great compliment. I think he doesn't have to be because he's speaking the plain truth. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:22 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ajEzVsuhg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
So salyavin, thinking of the atom which has always been real and measurable except that we didn't have the instruments to do so, is it possible that there exists right now, something else which is real and measurable but for which we don't yet have the instruments for measuring? On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:12 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, it stopped me in my tracks here at the end when you say ...if it isn't measurable it isn't real. How about atoms? Were they unreal when they weren't measurable? No, they were always measurable, we just didn't have the technology to do it. Did they only become real when we became able to measure them? Of course these are rhetorical questions meant to make the point that I think one of the functions of science is to make measurable that which has been real all along but existing beyond the usual range of our senses. For this reason, I think some day science will *prove* the truth of many of the spiritual and some of the religious traditions. You never know your luck, so far it looks like the opposite is true. But people will always claim they have been vindicated if they can. Look at all the quantum mystics there are. How serious to take them? Basically, if you see the word quantum outside of a physics textbook, ignore it. Meanwhile, people take it on faith. Why? Because maybe human intuition is the best scientific instrument of all! It's great at some things. In the occasions in my life that I've ignored my inner voice things have gone always wrong. It's like our conscious ways of working out what to do are woefully inadequate compared to our instinctive selves. I don't think it works at all beyond our own personal experiences. I would say that the only people who ever came up with a good cosmological theory without the ability to test it (like the Greek speculation about atoms - it's Greek for indivisible) got there more by luck and never knew if they were right or not. Which is why there are so many different revealed versions of the truth... On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:24 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: Either you just made up what you attributed to me in a malicious attempt to make me look stupid, Yup, malicious that's me. You made yourself look stupid - not to mention exceptionally irritating - with your refusal to explain what you mean. See also our oft repeated jyotish discussion. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog that he uses the same lame argument about having to have read all types to know that you can discount them. Nonsense. If I was to say you have to have ridden every type of bicycle before you can say you don't like cycling what would you say? It's the concept dear. or your thinking has been going off in the wrong direction, at least where classical theism is concerned. Depends which version of classical theism you are talking about, there appear to be hundreds but I've no doubt they can all be adapted to avoid having to provide any actual evidence beyond the I want it to be like this variety. I repeat my usual position that applies to all theism. It's unnecessary so why bother? That's a fab encapsulation by the way, not as elegant as Xeno but it sure is succinct. There is no conflict whatsoever between classical theism and science, including the laws of physics You may have found a version that doesn't but I can assure you that any god that has these qualities. 1. Transcendence 2. Omnipotence 3. Omniscience 4. Omnipresence 5. Absolute Benevolence but doesn't, or never has, interfered with his creation is missing a trick. The funny thing about the universe is that it looks exactly as one would if it wasn't made by a god with these classical theistic qualities. Odd that. But please don't write back with another but you don't understand, my god is different... it's the concept. I'm sure Ed Fess can wriggle his way round it with some other version but I really don't care. I convert for evidence. And necessity would count as a form of evidence. And there is no necessity, as well as the other major evidential problems. And like that we have a much better explanation. So really, why bother? Unless you want to. and if you want to, fine. Here's how science works. Someone has a model of how they think the world works - an old one is that the earth is the centre of the universe and everything else revolves round it. Looks good from a position standing on the Earth's surface but if you measure the way planets move you find you have a really complex set of mathematical calculations to make so you can make predictions about where they will be in the future. Sometime later someone thought that maybe the Earth isn't the centre of the universe and
[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Ajax: To find out if this is real or not, there is no evidence except the experience. One of the most thorough account of the spiritual approach may be Ken Wilber's book The Spectrum of Consciousness, a comparison of western and eastern ways of thinking about the mind, Ken Wilber described consciousness as a spectrum with ordinary awareness at one end, and more profound types of awareness at higher levels. Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness because the distinction of subject and object is within consciousness. (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. Work cited: 'The Spectrum of Consciousness' By Ken Wilber Quest Books, 1993 pp. 3-16; 52
[FairfieldLife] Re: Veda, Vedic Cities.. . ..Living the Golden Age!
Composed between the fifteenth and the fifth century BCE, the Vedas - literally Knowledge - are a Sanskrit corpus considered by most Hindus as a non-human revelation, and whose transmission has for centuries been reserved to a socio-religious elite, the Brahmins. Throughout brahmanic literature the authority of the Vedas is recognized as supreme. In the nineteenth century, as part of the construction of an Indian national identity during the colonial period, some reform movements transformed them into the reference texts for a Hinduism conceived of as a unitary religion. They also read and interpreted the Vedas as a religion that, unlike Christianity, contained truths compatible with the achievements of modern science. Although the content of the Vedas focuses mainly on the celebration of sacrifice, nowadays we witness a proliferation of texts and discourses which put references to the Vedas into play in the most diverse areas. The attribution of the term “Vedic” is now used to legitimate all sorts of knowledge and practices. Thus, we hear of “Vedic architecture”, “Vedic astrology”, “Vedic ecology”, “Vedic mathematics”, “Ayur-Veda” (Vedic medicine), “Vedic socialism and communism”, and even “Vedic management”. The visibility of these phenomena increased with recent attempts by Hindu nationalists, when they were in power, to introduce these new fields into school and university systems, both in India and abroad. This political operation raised significant ideological issues and led to a huge controversy about the legitimacy of these different fields. Despite their visibility, both in India and Anglo-Saxon countries, and despite the controversies that they generated, these discourses and practices have received only marginal attention from the social sciences, and have moreover never been the topic of a study where they are considered jointly. This international conference aims to bridge this gap by bringing together ethnologists who have observed the birth and dissemination of these phenomena in their field studies. The participation of historians and Sanskrit scholars will help us to put the historical dimension of these events into perspective, while specialists of other cultural arenas, who face similar phenomena of appeal to texts, will shed light on the regional specificity of these observed social facts. During the conference, the primary task will be to understand the scope of these phenomena, by examining the social identity of the actors involved: which groups or individuals contribute to the production of these new forms of knowledge? To whom are they addressed? Who are the intermediaries involved in the propagation of these ideas? Which groups contest the legitimacy of these discourses? In particular, we shall attempt to understand how these groups organize themselves institutionally (sects, associations, university); their political, religious and associative networks; as well as their relationship with figures in the Hindu nationalist movement. The sociological investigation of these figures shall necessarily take into consideration the role of Indian diaspora and its transnational networks. Central to our investigation is a focus on the content of these “new” forms of knowledge, and the legitimation strategies that go along with them. Although it takes particular forms in the modern world, referencing the Vedas is actually an ancient way to affirm the validity of knowledge . How are contemporary ways of referring to the Vedas as a legitimating authority different from ancient ways? In what ways does the attribution “Vedic” help to legitimate particular ways of knowing? This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply used by Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in contemporary discourses and practices? Participants will also be asked to investigate whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient” within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri Infratech group in Greater Noida. Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem to be at the heart of these new phenomena. “The attribution “Vedic” has important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts, recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
I was with some children last night. I have no children myself, so it was rather intriguing watching what interests them. One was about one year old, and the other about three. The one year old seemed totally fascinated with an empty aseptic package (Rice milk or something like that). Its whole world was wrapped up in this empty package. It made me wonder how its mind was beginning to fashion the world it experiences. The other child was much more interactive with me because she could speak, but I could rarely understand what she was talking about. The ego was forming in this one, but mostly she was interacting with me with a beach ball and some other small spherical toys. I have vague memories of my childhood playing and making up stuff, trying to figure out how things works. Somewhere along the line all this make believe solidifies into something more sinister - what I think is real. The pretend becomes fossilised. The spiritual path reverses this fossilisation, but only at the end, almost as a corollary. When one realises that the world of the senses is all there is, what is happening now, this has a huge fallout in regard to what one thought was real. The 'transcendent' that far away, mystical idea about where things come from turns out to be just the entire expanse of what one has always experienced from day one. But this means, in terms of the mind, that all those ideas about reality were a dream, they were just an attempt by the mind to make sense of experience correlated with what others informed me about experience. Most of the the thoughts I have about things largely result from input from outside, from other humans. Most of the words and concepts I use do not come from me, they are reprocessed input from others, refashioned by the peculiar twists of my nervous system. Those words and concepts are then projected onto sensory experience as an attempt to explain it all. But those words are just symbolic tokens. Now there is an experience, based on what some have reported, that I could call God, but I choose not to do so because that experience would hardly resemble what I perceive others have as their take on that word, because it is not intelligent in the way most seem to me to understand what intelligence is. The experience is really a mental ghost, the remains of a long search for what the mind imagined was real but was not. Transcendence is a token, a label for an experience that for part of the journey seemed to exist but does not now. It is very difficult to explain this in any way that would not create a picture in the mind that is patently false. All ideas about this are false. The whole apparatus of spiritual development is really a mechanism for manipulating the mind's ability to phantasise and dream, and to manipulate it into a corner where it ceases to be the dominant quality of living. Because one still has thoughts, can think about things etc., the potential to dream nonsense onto one's experience of life is still there, so there is always the chance the mind will trap experience again, but at some point it seems less and less likely this will happen. This is what freedom is like, the mind's idea of reality does not dominate experience. The corollary is the mind thinks thoughts that are always in some way false, but unlike the mind of a child where an empty box becomes the whole world, spiritual awaking shows one that in some way, all of one's ideas are in reality an individual mind's opinion, not a fact, not true. There are practical applications of thought. Science takes great pains to try to align thought with perception, to make the concepts and ideas that come from the mind correlate with the world of observation, and it is quite clear that this is not a perfect process, it is always an approximation. A scientist is always on the edge of a precipice where his or her ideas will be show up as being wrong. Thoughts approximate reality by proxy, they are an imperfect stand-in for the other aspects of human experience. I think this is the basic mistake on a spiritual path, that one has found the truth in the descriptive words of spirituality. Scientists seem actually much better at formulating thoughts one might call 'true' in some way. Religions are terrible at this because the thoughts, the concepts get fossilised. Science provides a chisel to crack the rock away, but it cannot free the mind from the identification with thought. Scientists argue just as much as spiritual people, but they have a method for settling differences. Because spiritual experience is private and seemingly numinous at times there is no public forum for communication and correlation of thoughts, no way to investigate. When a child makes a whole world out of an empty box, the mind is creating a metaphysical dream. When grown-ups do this I would call it theology or politics. I have a certain fondness for the sage Nisargadatta. A
[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
I was just about positive you wouldn't admit your assertion was metaphysical, because if it is, according to the statement itself, it's not real. You can't measure it, you can't use it to make predictions, you can't prove it, and there's no evidence for it. It's fine to believe it if it pleases you, but it isn't a scientific statement You didn't realize it was metaphysical, did you? Opsie! The rest of the post was irrelevant bullshit where classical theism is concerned. But this howler was too good to pass up, especially since your whole ignorant argument falls apart without it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=scientism http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=scientism ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Is that it? No argument whatsoever? But then you didn't have one going in to the discussion so why would you have one at the end. Business as usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : (snip all kinds of nonsense) You do realize this is a metaphysical, not a scientific, statement, do you not? So the only way it isn't in conflict with science is because it isn't measurable. And if it isn't measurable it isn't real.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
what does the PST stand for? On Wed, 4/16/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 1:55 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : In general, I am opposed to taxation, in particular income tax and property tax and most sales taxes as well. There is no income tax where I live and the sales tax is aroun 8%, compared to 14% in Canada. 5% GST and 7% PST in BC, actually, and some things have only 5% on them but GST is Goods and Services so that means not just stuff but labor/service is taxed as well. However, I would be willing to pay my fair share of a flat tax on income - about 1%. Go figure. I figure that is not much in anybody's method of doing math.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Richard, Wilbur's book was published 21 years ago. I think neuroscience has added greatly to our understanding of consciousness since then. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 9:50 AM, pundits...@gmail.com pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Ajax: To find out if this is real or not, there is no evidence except the experience. One of the most thorough account of the spiritual approach may be Ken Wilber's book The Spectrum of Consciousness, a comparison of western and eastern ways of thinking about the mind, Ken Wilber described consciousness as a spectrum with ordinary awareness at one end, and more profound types of awareness at higher levels. Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness because the distinction of subject and object is within consciousness. (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. Work cited: 'The Spectrum of Consciousness' By Ken Wilber Quest Books, 1993 pp. 3-16; 52
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Raja Ram may be a nice guy on the surface, but he is the very face of a cult and the very picture of a fraud. On Wed, 4/16/14, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 2:28 PM Well.. I guess it's a good thing I don't live in Fairfield. I'd just wet my pants with all that excitement! On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:54 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com wrote: All hail Raja Ram! On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:31 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions,If you want to learn use youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class: http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 10:23 AM Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Tony Nader, Ph.D., M.D. can't hold a candle to all your accomplishments, such as practicing Kung Fu for two years and fixing computers in your living room. You may be a nice guy on the surface but you come across in print as a jealous guy. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Raja Ram may be a nice guy on the surface, but he is the very face of a cult and the very picture of a fraud.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Knowledge is power, Share. It's like the analogy of the snake in the garden. At night we see what appears to be a snake in the garden; in the daylight we see that it was only a coiled up rope. The snake was real because it was presented to our consciousness, but in reality it wasn't a real snake at all. The snake was not real, yet not unreal - it was just an illusion due to our ignorance and the perception of the senses. Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, it is Self-luminous. (XIII, 13). Thus shaking off duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the unity underlying phenomena (dharmadatu). (VI, 7) Sharma, p. 112-113 Share: So salyavin, thinking of the atom which has always been real and measurable except that we didn't have the instruments to do so, is it possible that there exists right now, something else which is real and measurable but for which we don't yet have the instruments for measuring?
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
If by only people in level you mean people who cant think for themselves and need Potentate Tony to do it for them, I wouldn't be so sure, especially if that arrogant ass James Bedinger is still there as head of security, a man so incompetent he was first promoted to MIU head of security he couldn't catch the towney who repeatedly snuck on campus, let himself in the women's dorm so he could expose himself to them in the bathrooms. It took them WEEKS to catch that guy. And the only reason he was promoted was the only security guy who was worth anything, Jim Brumfield went on to other things and the post was vacant, so Jimmy got the job and has held onto it like the Pope ever since. On Wed, 4/16/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 1:06 PM Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions,If you want to learn use youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? And while we are at all this vedic stuff, try reading this little story about one man's experience in MUM's Sanskrit class: http://mumosa.com/mum-stories/maha-sanskrit-fail-at-mum.html On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 10:23 AM Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
In Eye to Eye, Ken Wilber applies his spectrum of consciousness model to epistemology. Epistemology is the science of what can be known - knowledge, and how we get it. Attempting to investigate the realm of spirit, for example, with the eye of flesh, that is, the eye that perceives only sensory phenomena, will not yield real knowledge of the realm of spirit, which is not disclosed to sensory perception. There is an old Zen saying: 'The eye cannot see itself.' There is no place in this new kind of physics both for field and matter, for the field is the only reality. - Albert Einstein Read more: 'Eye to Eye: The Quest for the New Paradigm' by Ken Wilber Shambhala, 1990 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Richard, Wilbur's book was published 21 years ago. I think neuroscience has added greatly to our understanding of consciousness since then.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
From: anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous I was with some children last night. I have no children myself, so it was rather intriguing watching what interests them. One was about one year old, and the other about three. The one year old seemed totally fascinated with an empty aseptic package (Rice milk or something like that). Its whole world was wrapped up in this empty package. It made me wonder how its mind was beginning to fashion the world it experiences. The other child was much more interactive with me because she could speak, but I could rarely understand what she was talking about. The ego was forming in this one, but mostly she was interacting with me with a beach ball and some other small spherical toys. I have vague memories of my childhood playing and making up stuff, trying to figure out how things works. Somewhere along the line all this make believe solidifies into something more sinister - what I think is real. The pretend becomes fossilised. I won't comment on the deeper aspects of your post, just pass along a wonderful moment having to do with children. Or one child, at least. Here's Maya yesterday, revealing her aspect as the Buddha of Compassion, meditating on the infinite wonder of bunnies. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: If the siddhis were real, here's a typical day in the life of a MSAE kid.
We were promised CC in 5 - 8 years. And then, we were LIED TO REPEATEDLY ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT FOR RESULTS from program after program after course after arjur this and arjur that. Anyone who claimed enlightenment turned out to be jokes. Even poor Rick has a hard time finding someone with plain ordinary charisma let alone obvious spiritual radiance. So many lies, that, what, now, isn't questionable? All the research is pretty much shitty work that can be debunked by a high school kid. And face it, a couple billion spent by true believers, and all we end up with is ZILCH for proofs of almost any sort. But we got a psychopath Girish slurping the money like DRACULA. And we have our movement's trail of scoundrels who bilked anyone with a mantra, or the bastard who drugged and raped his patients, or heck with the drugs, how about the guy who just plain ol' raped 20 of them and is in prison now, or of course there's the guy with the pen in his eye -- he might have had a fleeting last thought about Hey, the technique didn't solve this crazy guy's problems. And on and on and on. And on. And the funny part is that the technique has its virtues and should be studied. In truth, the movement blew it. We had something great, and we turned it into a money machine run by the most ridiculous popinjays. Edg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I am exceedingly certain that the TM-Sidhis ARE real, at least with respect to how they are supposed to affect the state of consciousness of the person who does them. Now, obviously, I can't prove that the floating stage of Yogic Flying is real, nor can I prove that TM + TM-Sidhis is beneficial to anyone, let alone everyone who practices them, but the EEG results of long-term practice of TM + TM-SIdhis look to be obviously different than simply doing TM for the same amount of time. So... if you trust that the EEG changes are in the direction of some state that is of value, then doing TM + TM-sidhis regularly is of value. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
But, can she levitate like Rama? I won't comment on the deeper aspects of your post, just pass along a wonderful moment having to do with children.
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
This sounds like something you made up to cover yourself. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : he couldn't catch the towney who repeatedly snuck on campus, let himself in the women's dorm so he could expose himself to them in the bathrooms. It took them WEEKS to catch that guy.
[FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via grants and forgivable loans
Conference call TODAY: The TM organization will offer up to $10,000 scholarship and another $5,000 forgivable loan to qualifying people to become a TM teacher and agree to teach TM full-time for 2 years - http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: If the siddhis were real, here's a typical day in the life of a MSAE kid.
Never pass up a tragedy in order to win a religious debate. Edg: or the bastard who drugged and raped his patients, or heck with the drugs, how about the guy who just plain ol' raped 20 of them and is in prison now, or of course there's the guy with the pen in his eye -- he might have had a fleeting last thought about Hey, the technique didn't solve this crazy guy's problems.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : However, I would be willing to pay my fair share of a flat tax on income - about 1%. Go figure. I figure that is not much in anybody's method of doing math. That's way more than 75% of Americans pay for income tax. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld discussing TM in a roadside cafe. It feels pretty unrehearsed.
You are correct. It's cut footage from: http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/howard-stern-the-last-days-of-howard-stern http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee.com/howard-stern-the-last-days-of-howard-stern ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : I'm afraid your feeling is irrelevant. Like I said this is a series of interviews Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee made by Jerry Seinfeld. David Lynch had nothing to do with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjoCluDFb4 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote :
[FairfieldLife] Rick's competition-who cares what she says.....
https://www.youtube.com/user/liloumace https://www.youtube.com/user/liloumace
Re: [FairfieldLife] Happy Tax Day!
Just stop wasting money on offense spending. You will still need to pay some tax to have the roads in decent shape, bridges not crumbling down, schools working okay, water and sewage working, the fire department putting out fires, police still catching criminals. Or were you planning to do that all yourself? Go figure. On 04/16/2014 06:47 AM, pundits...@gmail.com wrote: In general, I am opposed to taxation, in particular income tax and property tax and most sales taxes as well. There is no income tax where I live and the sales tax is aroun 8%, compared to 14% in Canada. However, I would be willing to pay my fair share of a flat tax on income - about 1%. Go figure. American-style capitalism promises higher living standards overall in exchange for higher individual risks; faster growth rates in exchange for greater inequality; lower unemployment rates in exchange for fewer workplace protections; more liberty for innovators and entrepreneurs in exchange for somewhat less solidarity-as-redistribution. 'The Case Against Higher Taxes' New York Times: http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/douthat/2014/04/15/the-case-against-higher-taxes/?from=douthat 'How Much Are You Willing to Pay in Taxes?' http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-15/how-much-are-you-willing-to-pay-in-taxes
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Yep, some old hurt he has. Some obsession. Heck, he left years ago. He don't live here now. Seems to have severed all relationship with spirituality anyway. I don't see what dog he has in this fight. Evidently some deep hurt or disposition. This is a different movement from the one he belonged to a long ago. As he is he's clearly an enemy, it would make sense they keep him out now and protect themselves but he certainly could always come back some time as a practicing meditator. The field effect of the meditation is really fabulous here. He really ought to look at the research again with an open heart and mind, there are a lot of good reasons to be here meditating. The meditating movement lives on for good reason. It is a shame he has put himself outside the meditating community here. -U.S. Buck in the Dome Nablusoss1008 writes: Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions, If you want to learn use youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg mjackson74 writes: I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful! On Wed, 4/16/14, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 3:09 PM From: anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous I was with some children last night. I have no children myself, so it was rather intriguing watching what interests them. One was about one year old, and the other about three. The one year old seemed totally fascinated with an empty aseptic package (Rice milk or something like that). Its whole world was wrapped up in this empty package. It made me wonder how its mind was beginning to fashion the world it experiences. The other child was much more interactive with me because she could speak, but I could rarely understand what she was talking about. The ego was forming in this one, but mostly she was interacting with me with a beach ball and some other small spherical toys. I have vague memories of my childhood playing and making up stuff, trying to figure out how things works. Somewhere along the line all this make believe solidifies into something more sinister - what I think is real. The pretend becomes fossilised. I won't comment on the deeper aspects of your post, just pass along a wonderful moment having to do with children. Or one child, at least. Here's Maya yesterday, revealing her aspect as the Buddha of Compassion, meditating on the infinite wonder of bunnies. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: If the siddhis were real, here's a typical day in the life of a MSAE kid.
Fred Travis found enough people to perform physiological and psychological studies on people reporting CC for at least one year. That study was published years ago. As my brain gets unfogged from 18 years of daily prozac, I'm finding that I'm having brief CC episodes whenever I'm regular with TM for more than a day or two, so it can't be all that uncommon with people who have been doing TM for several decades. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : We were promised CC in 5 - 8 years. And then, we were LIED TO REPEATEDLY ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT FOR RESULTS from program after program after course after arjur this and arjur that. Anyone who claimed enlightenment turned out to be jokes. Even poor Rick has a hard time finding someone with plain ordinary charisma let alone obvious spiritual radiance. So many lies, that, what, now, isn't questionable? All the research is pretty much shitty work that can be debunked by a high school kid. And face it, a couple billion spent by true believers, and all we end up with is ZILCH for proofs of almost any sort. But we got a psychopath Girish slurping the money like DRACULA. And we have our movement's trail of scoundrels who bilked anyone with a mantra, or the bastard who drugged and raped his patients, or heck with the drugs, how about the guy who just plain ol' raped 20 of them and is in prison now, or of course there's the guy with the pen in his eye -- he might have had a fleeting last thought about Hey, the technique didn't solve this crazy guy's problems. And on and on and on. And on. And the funny part is that the technique has its virtues and should be studied. In truth, the movement blew it. We had something great, and we turned it into a money machine run by the most ridiculous popinjays. Edg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I am exceedingly certain that the TM-Sidhis ARE real, at least with respect to how they are supposed to affect the state of consciousness of the person who does them. Now, obviously, I can't prove that the floating stage of Yogic Flying is real, nor can I prove that TM + TM-Sidhis is beneficial to anyone, let alone everyone who practices them, but the EEG results of long-term practice of TM + TM-SIdhis look to be obviously different than simply doing TM for the same amount of time. So... if you trust that the EEG changes are in the direction of some state that is of value, then doing TM + TM-sidhis regularly is of value. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
totally sweet and peaceful too. thanks turq, I realize I've missed seeing photos of Maya... On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 10:12 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: From: anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous I was with some children last night. I have no children myself, so it was rather intriguing watching what interests them. One was about one year old, and the other about three. The one year old seemed totally fascinated with an empty aseptic package (Rice milk or something like that). Its whole world was wrapped up in this empty package. It made me wonder how its mind was beginning to fashion the world it experiences. The other child was much more interactive with me because she could speak, but I could rarely understand what she was talking about. The ego was forming in this one, but mostly she was interacting with me with a beach ball and some other small spherical toys. I have vague memories of my childhood playing and making up stuff, trying to figure out how things works. Somewhere along the line all this make believe solidifies into something more sinister - what I think is real. The pretend becomes fossilised. I won't comment on the deeper aspects of your post, just pass along a wonderful moment having to do with children. Or one child, at least. Here's Maya yesterday, revealing her aspect as the Buddha of Compassion, meditating on the infinite wonder of bunnies. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via grants and forgivable loans
What the hell is this for? There aren't enough TM teachers already to serve those wanting to learn TM? This is yet another scam on the part of King Tony and all Marshy sycophants. They are wanting to create unneeded teachers so they can get MORE money in their hands. These grants and scholarships have to come from somewhere. The Lynch Foundation of Hucksters no doubt. The more they sign up, the more the Lynch boys can beg for donations and the more the TMO makes. Or maybe since TM is getting kicked out of San Francisco schools, the Lynch Hucksters have surplus funds (doubt it). I would strongly caution those contemplating such an inadvisable move to be extremely cautious with making agreements with the TM Movement - they are famous for not keeping their word, especially when it comes to making business deals. On Wed, 4/16/14, lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via grants and forgivable loans To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 3:23 PM Conference call TODAY: The TM organization will offer up to $10,000 scholarship and another $5,000 forgivable loan to qualifying people to become a TM teacher and agree to teach TM full-time for 2 years - http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via grants and forgivable loans
There are places where teaching TM might not be attractive, such as remote Indian reservations, and these kinds of deals might be for that purpose. The US government forgives student loans for school teachers who agree to teach school on Indian reservations, for example, so its not unheard of. Also, this may be testing the waters for recruiting people for overseas assignments. The Brazilian government wants 48,000 TM teachers, one for each public school in Brazil, so this may be a way of recruiting people who speak Portuguese in preparation for that. Also, estimates are that about 100,000,000 people in Africa suffer from PTSD and/or other stress-related anxiety disorders. They may also be targeting people who are able to speak languages commonly spoken in Africa, such as French, Portuguese, Arabic, Spanish, etc. If smoeone actually spoke a tribal African language, that would be a REAL plus, in that scenario. The deal is for 2 years teaching in the USA, but if you are young, and have the opportunity to work with UN relief agencies in Africa, wouldn't that be attractive as well? L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What the hell is this for? There aren't enough TM teachers already to serve those wanting to learn TM? This is yet another scam on the part of King Tony and all Marshy sycophants. They are wanting to create unneeded teachers so they can get MORE money in their hands. These grants and scholarships have to come from somewhere. The Lynch Foundation of Hucksters no doubt. The more they sign up, the more the Lynch boys can beg for donations and the more the TMO makes. Or maybe since TM is getting kicked out of San Francisco schools, the Lynch Hucksters have surplus funds (doubt it). I would strongly caution those contemplating such an inadvisable move to be extremely cautious with making agreements with the TM Movement - they are famous for not keeping their word, especially when it comes to making business deals. On Wed, 4/16/14, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] $1,500 instead of $16,500 to become a TM teacher via grants and forgivable loans To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 3:23 PM Conference call TODAY: The TM organization will offer up to $10,000 scholarship and another $5,000 forgivable loan to qualifying people to become a TM teacher and agree to teach TM full-time for 2 years - http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html http://communications.tm.org/2014/2014_04_14_TTCConfCall.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Jesus Buck! Of all the exhortations you might give for me to come back to TM the idea of examining the research is the worst! The science is a joke, it is a bunch of people who feed off the Movement saying here is our finding - believe it cuz we say its true and don't pay attention to anything else. I finally had sense enough to conduct my own research into consciousness and into practical reality on the ground with the TMO and discovered that once I stopped thinking that all the crappy stuff that happens in life is something good cuz the Movement says it is, once I stopped turning a blind eye to the abuse the Movement visits on people everyday (you have been on the receiving end of that I see from the excerpt of Joe Webber's book I've been reading) and looked clearly at the results of TM in people's lives, saw the number of men and women who were quitting for various reasons I got the hell out and I am gonna stay out. I won't support an organization that lies, cheats, steals and ruins peoples' lives with no shame. You would do well to take a leaf from my book, cause even tho you have already experienced this, you don't seem to have gotten the memo that if you fool around with the TMO, you are gonna get treated like garbage. On Wed, 4/16/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 4:06 PM Yep, some old hurt he has. Some obsession. Heck, he left years ago. He don't live here now. Seems to have severed all relationship with spirituality anyway. I don't see what dog he has in this fight. Evidently some deep hurt or disposition. This is a different movement from the one he belonged to a long ago. As he is he's clearly an enemy, it would make sense they keep him out now and protect themselves but he certainly could always come back some time as a practicing meditator. The field effect of the meditation is really fabulous here. He really ought to look at the research again with an open heart and mind, there are a lot of good reasons to be here meditating. The meditating movement lives on for good reason. It is a shame he has put himself outside the meditating community here. -U.S. Buck in the Dome Nablusoss1008 writes: Don't worry, only people in level will be able to see him. Fellows like you are the reason they have security, you wouldn't come within range to do anything much less pose any silly questions,If you want to learn use youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZ8Zai_1Yg mjackson74 writes: I would love to be there and ask King Tony some questions he would not answer, such as how big an ego does one need to declare oneself king of the world? Subject: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! Meeting with the Fairfield Meditating CommunityIn the Golden Dome this Thursday evening, April 17, starting at 8:00 p.m.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: If the siddhis were real, here's a typical day in the life of a MSAE kid.
Well said Edg. And all true. On Wed, 4/16/14, Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: If the siddhis were real, here's a typical day in the life of a MSAE kid. To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 3:16 PM We were promised CC in 5 - 8 years. And then, we were LIED TO REPEATEDLY ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT FOR RESULTS from program after program after course after arjur this and arjur that. Anyone who claimed enlightenment turned out to be jokes. Even poor Rick has a hard time finding someone with plain ordinary charisma let alone obvious spiritual radiance. So many lies, that, what, now, isn't questionable? All the research is pretty much shitty work that can be debunked by a high school kid. And face it, a couple billion spent by true believers, and all we end up with is ZILCH for proofs of almost any sort. But we got a psychopath Girish slurping the money like DRACULA. And we have our movement's trail of scoundrels who bilked anyone with a mantra, or the bastard who drugged and raped his patients, or heck with the drugs, how about the guy who just plain ol' raped 20 of them and is in prison now, or of course there's the guy with the pen in his eye -- he might have had a fleeting last thought about Hey, the technique didn't solve this crazy guy's problems. And on and on and on. And on. And the funny part is that the technique has its virtues and should be studied. In truth, the movement blew it. We had something great, and we turned it into a money machine run by the most ridiculous popinjays. Edg ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I am exceedingly certain that the TM-Sidhis ARE real, at least with respect to how they are supposed to affect the state of consciousness of the person who does them. Now, obviously, I can't prove that the floating stage of Yogic Flying is real, nor can I prove that TM + TM-Sidhis is beneficial to anyone, let alone everyone who practices them, but the EEG results of long-term practice of TM + TM-SIdhis look to be obviously different than simply doing TM for the same amount of time. So... if you trust that the EEG changes are in the direction of some state that is of value, then doing TM + TM-sidhis regularly is of value. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://imgur.com/gallery/eQ5NM
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by dis-interested parties? What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the brain than they found in this study? http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't as single-mindedly evil as you say it is. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Jesus Buck! Of all the exhortations you might give for me to come back to TM the idea of examining the research is the worst! The science is a joke, it is a bunch of people who feed off the Movement saying here is our finding - believe it cuz we say its true and don't pay attention to anything else. I finally had sense enough to conduct my own research into consciousness and into practical reality on the ground with the TMO and discovered that once I stopped thinking that all the crappy stuff that happens in life is something good cuz the Movement says it is, once I stopped turning a blind eye to the abuse the Movement visits on people everyday (you have been on the receiving end of that I see from the excerpt of Joe Webber's book I've been reading) and looked clearly at the results of TM in people's lives, saw the number of men and women who were quitting for various reasons I got the hell out and I am gonna stay out. I won't support an organization that lies, cheats, steals and ruins peoples' lives with no shame. You would do well to take a leaf from my book, cause even tho you have already experienced this, you don't seem to have gotten the memo that if you fool around with the TMO, you are gonna get treated like garbage.
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by dis-interested parties? What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the brain than they found in this study? http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't as single-mindedly evil as you say it is. As much as I hate to say it, Lawson, to my ears you are sounding more and more like a religious fanatic, growing progressively more desperate to prove that what he has been taught to believe is true. Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if it weren't? Have you ever even considered the possibility?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : So salyavin, thinking of the atom which has always been real and measurable except that we didn't have the instruments to do so, is it possible that there exists right now, something else which is real and measurable but for which we don't yet have the instruments for measuring? Aha, good question! By else I assume you means something interesting rather than just another subatomic particle that's virtually identical to all the others? Trouble is, if it's bigger than a wavelength of light which is 0.1mm then we'll be able to see it. Unless it's made of something really interesting which means it won't be able to see us either. But it's hard to imagine how something could exist without mass. Mass means gravity which is also measurable. So it's a puzzling thing indeed. But we don't know what we don't know, I imagine if it's undetectable and not interfering with our universe in any way it'll probably stay that way so we'll never know! On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:12 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, it stopped me in my tracks here at the end when you say ...if it isn't measurable it isn't real. How about atoms? Were they unreal when they weren't measurable? No, they were always measurable, we just didn't have the technology to do it. Did they only become real when we became able to measure them? Of course these are rhetorical questions meant to make the point that I think one of the functions of science is to make measurable that which has been real all along but existing beyond the usual range of our senses. For this reason, I think some day science will *prove* the truth of many of the spiritual and some of the religious traditions. You never know your luck, so far it looks like the opposite is true. But people will always claim they have been vindicated if they can. Look at all the quantum mystics there are. How serious to take them? Basically, if you see the word quantum outside of a physics textbook, ignore it. Meanwhile, people take it on faith. Why? Because maybe human intuition is the best scientific instrument of all! It's great at some things. In the occasions in my life that I've ignored my inner voice things have gone always wrong. It's like our conscious ways of working out what to do are woefully inadequate compared to our instinctive selves. I don't think it works at all beyond our own personal experiences. I would say that the only people who ever came up with a good cosmological theory without the ability to test it (like the Greek speculation about atoms - it's Greek for indivisible) got there more by luck and never knew if they were right or not. Which is why there are so many different revealed versions of the truth... On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:24 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: Either you just made up what you attributed to me in a malicious attempt to make me look stupid, Yup, malicious that's me. You made yourself look stupid - not to mention exceptionally irritating - with your refusal to explain what you mean. See also our oft repeated jyotish discussion. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog that he uses the same lame argument about having to have read all types to know that you can discount them. Nonsense. If I was to say you have to have ridden every type of bicycle before you can say you don't like cycling what would you say? It's the concept dear. or your thinking has been going off in the wrong direction, at least where classical theism is concerned. Depends which version of classical theism you are talking about, there appear to be hundreds but I've no doubt they can all be adapted to avoid having to provide any actual evidence beyond the I want it to be like this variety. I repeat my usual position that applies to all theism. It's unnecessary so why bother? That's a fab encapsulation by the way, not as elegant as Xeno but it sure is succinct. There is no conflict whatsoever between classical theism and science, including the laws of physics You may have found a version that doesn't but I can assure you that any god that has these qualities. Transcendence Omnipotence Omniscience Omnipresence Absolute Benevolence but doesn't, or never has, interfered with his creation is missing a trick. The funny thing about the universe is that it looks exactly as one would if it wasn't made by a god with these classical theistic qualities. Odd that. But please don't write back with another but you don't understand, my god is different... it's the concept. I'm sure Ed Fess can wriggle his way round it with some other version but I really don't care. I convert for evidence.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : what does the PST stand for? Provincial Sales Tax. Just like State tax and they vary from Province to Province. Alberta, for example, has no Provincial sales tax. On Wed, 4/16/14, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 1:55 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : In general, I am opposed to taxation, in particular income tax and property tax and most sales taxes as well. There is no income tax where I live and the sales tax is aroun 8%, compared to 14% in Canada. 5% GST and 7% PST in BC, actually, and some things have only 5% on them but GST is Goods and Services so that means not just stuff but labor/service is taxed as well. However, I would be willing to pay my fair share of a flat tax on income - about 1%. Go figure. I figure that is not much in anybody's method of doing math.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Hey Judy, I've been getting kinda worried that your mighty brain isn't get used enough amongst us incurious dullards. So I found a new place for you to hang out and discuss theoretic improbabilities: http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/44061/29917623/Theistic_Personalism__Classical_Theism http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/44061/29917623/Theistic_Personalism__Classical_Theism It looks great! There's a big quote from Ed Fess on page one and everyone is just thrilled to share their wild speculations. I had no idea there are so many varieties of theism, I counted 12 on one page! I'm positive that no one ever discusses things that are demonstrable so you won't ever be asked to justify a position with anything other than It's what I believe. What's not to like! But I'd leave the junkyard dog act here, they seem like a civilised bunch and I didn't notice any sneering, badmouthing or withering insults. Let us know how you get on! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I was just about positive you wouldn't admit your assertion was metaphysical, because if it is, according to the statement itself, it's not real. You can't measure it, you can't use it to make predictions, you can't prove it, and there's no evidence for it. It's fine to believe it if it pleases you, but it isn't a scientific statement You didn't realize it was metaphysical, did you? Opsie! The rest of the post was irrelevant bullshit where classical theism is concerned. But this howler was too good to pass up, especially since your whole ignorant argument falls apart without it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=scientism http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=scientism ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Is that it? No argument whatsoever? But then you didn't have one going in to the discussion so why would you have one at the end. Business as usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : (snip all kinds of nonsense) You do realize this is a metaphysical, not a scientific, statement, do you not? So the only way it isn't in conflict with science is because it isn't measurable. And if it isn't measurable it isn't real.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
Ann, in this post as well as in my previous posts, I often write to discover what I think rather than to declare what I think. Plus I get a lot from the input and questions from others. Like this question of yours about where charisma comes from. My immediate response was that it comes from Being, from Life and I'm not giving that thought up completely. OTOH, I think both Martin Luther King and Hitler had the gift of public speaking and their charisma was funneled through that gift, the big difference being, imo, that King was grounded in spirituality and Hitler wasn't. Nick Vujicic comes to mind as a contemporary charismatic person. He's a young, Australian fellow who was born without arms and legs and has gone on to live an amazing life which includes uplifting and inspiring others. I'd say his charisma comes straight from his spirit and doesn't get distorted much on the way to expression. My guess is that it's easier for the quiet, charismatic people to stay psychologically healthy than it is for the expressive charismatics. On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:23 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Ann, I think I've mainly been in the presence of healthy or developed charismatic people like Martin Luther King. My guess is that charisma is a gift that can easily be misused and thus the world has known many unhealthy or undeveloped charismatic people, like Hitler. But I would also say that a charismatic person can be mainly either quiet or expressive. Hmm, so that just about covers the range of possibilities. Funny, because earlier you were talking about charisma as being all fire and brimstone and theatrical. For example, I'd put Fr. Keating in the group of healthy, quiet charismatic people whereas I'd put MLK in the group of healthy, expressive charismatics. What do you think, do you think charisma has to do with the person or their message primarily?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
salyavin, you read my mind! That's exactly what I was thinking of! Go figure (-: On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:26 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : So salyavin, thinking of the atom which has always been real and measurable except that we didn't have the instruments to do so, is it possible that there exists right now, something else which is real and measurable but for which we don't yet have the instruments for measuring? Aha, good question! By else I assume you means something interesting rather than just another subatomic particle that's virtually identical to all the others? Trouble is, if it's bigger than a wavelength of light which is 0.1mm then we'll be able to see it. Unless it's made of something really interesting which means it won't be able to see us either. But it's hard to imagine how something could exist without mass. Mass means gravity which is also measurable. So it's a puzzling thing indeed. But we don't know what we don't know, I imagine if it's undetectable and not interfering with our universe in any way it'll probably stay that way so we'll never know! On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:12 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, it stopped me in my tracks here at the end when you say ...if it isn't measurable it isn't real. How about atoms? Were they unreal when they weren't measurable? No, they were always measurable, we just didn't have the technology to do it. Did they only become real when we became able to measure them? Of course these are rhetorical questions meant to make the point that I think one of the functions of science is to make measurable that which has been real all along but existing beyond the usual range of our senses. For this reason, I think some day science will *prove* the truth of many of the spiritual and some of the religious traditions. You never know your luck, so far it looks like the opposite is true. But people will always claim they have been vindicated if they can. Look at all the quantum mystics there are. How serious to take them? Basically, if you see the word quantum outside of a physics textbook, ignore it. Meanwhile, people take it on faith. Why? Because maybe human intuition is the best scientific instrument of all! It's great at some things. In the occasions in my life that I've ignored my inner voice things have gone always wrong. It's like our conscious ways of working out what to do are woefully inadequate compared to our instinctive selves. I don't think it works at all beyond our own personal experiences. I would say that the only people who ever came up with a good cosmological theory without the ability to test it (like the Greek speculation about atoms - it's Greek for indivisible) got there more by luck and never knew if they were right or not. Which is why there are so many different revealed versions of the truth... On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:24 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: Either you just made up what you attributed to me in a malicious attempt to make me look stupid, Yup, malicious that's me. You made yourself look stupid - not to mention exceptionally irritating - with your refusal to explain what you mean. See also our oft repeated jyotish discussion. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog that he uses the same lame argument about having to have read all types to know that you can discount them. Nonsense. If I was to say you have to have ridden every type of bicycle before you can say you don't like cycling what would you say? It's the concept dear. or your thinking has been going off in the wrong direction, at least where classical theism is concerned. Depends which version of classical theism you are talking about, there appear to be hundreds but I've no doubt they can all be adapted to avoid having to provide any actual evidence beyond the I want it to be like this variety. I repeat my usual position that applies to all theism. It's unnecessary so why bother? That's a fab encapsulation by the way, not as elegant as Xeno but it sure is succinct. There is no conflict whatsoever between classical theism and science, including the laws of physics You may have found a version that doesn't but I can assure you that any god that has these qualities. 1. Transcendence 2. Omnipotence 3. Omniscience 4. Omnipresence 5. Absolute Benevolence but doesn't, or never has, interfered with his creation is missing a trick. The funny thing about the universe is that it looks exactly as one would if it wasn't made by a god with these classical theistic qualities. Odd that. But please don't write back with another but you don't understand, my god is
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
On 4/16/2014 12:37 PM, salyavin808 wrote: But I'd leave the junkyard dog act here, they seem like a civilised bunch and I didn't notice any sneering, badmouthing or withering insults. It looks like this is about the time for this thread to turn to crap. It looks like somebody is having trouble understanding that consciousness is the being - it's not a object of knowledge. Go figure. P.S. Has anybody thought about snipping these messages before they reply? It's not complicated. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Meaning is a Static Thing
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Ann, I think I've mainly been in the presence of healthy or developed charismatic people like Martin Luther King. My guess is that charisma is a gift that can easily be misused and thus the world has known many unhealthy or undeveloped charismatic people, like Hitler. But I would also say that a charismatic person can be mainly either quiet or expressive. Hmm, so that just about covers the range of possibilities. Funny, because earlier you were talking about charisma as being all fire and brimstone and theatrical. For example, I'd put Fr. Keating in the group of healthy, quiet charismatic people whereas I'd put MLK in the group of healthy, expressive charismatics. What do you think, do you think charisma has to do with the person or their message primarily?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
On 4/16/2014 12:29 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Provincial Sales Tax. Just like State tax and they vary from Province to Province. Alberta, for example, has no Provincial sales tax. In a recent report, Belgians paid the highest income tax - 55.8%. Germany came in second, with a tax burden at 49.3 per cent. Canada was ranked 26th among the 31 OECD nations, with a 31.1 per cent tax wedge. The U.S. ranked 25th, with a slightly higher tax wedge of 31.3 per cent. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
On 4/16/2014 12:10 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote: As much as I hate to say it, Lawson, to my ears you are sounding more and more like a religious fanatic, growing progressively more desperate to prove that what he has been taught to believe is true. Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if it weren't? Have you ever even considered the possibility? To my ears you are sounding more and more like a cult apologist growing progressively more desperate to avoid talking about your tall tales of your cult leader being able to levitate, hundreds of times. You sound desperate to prove that's normal to believe in human flying without visible physical means of support. Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if it turned out to be a hoax? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
[FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo
Modern India, home of all knowledge and the Va-Va-Voom Vedas, has a problem with over 50% of its population just shitting in the streets, so they commissioned this Public Service Announcement to turn things around. Somehow I don't think dancing poo is quite gonna do it. India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, So They Made A PSA - Digg India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, ... Yup, apparently over half the population in India just craps right out in the open and we're pretty sure a video of dancing poops isn't going to help. View on digg.com Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Wow, finding out that you've been espousing a metaphysical theory has really discombobulated you, has it not? You haven't the foggiest idea how to wiggle out of that one, have you? I see now that you've been deliberately misspelling Feser all along. Don't you think that's a little immature? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Hey Judy, I've been getting kinda worried that your mighty brain isn't get used enough amongst us incurious dullards. So I found a new place for you to hang out and discuss theoretic improbabilities: http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/44061/29917623/Theistic_Personalism__Classical_Theism http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/44061/29917623/Theistic_Personalism__Classical_Theism It looks great! There's a big quote from Ed Fess on page one and everyone is just thrilled to share their wild speculations. I had no idea there are so many varieties of theism, I counted 12 on one page! I'm positive that no one ever discusses things that are demonstrable so you won't ever be asked to justify a position with anything other than It's what I believe. What's not to like! But I'd leave the junkyard dog act here, they seem like a civilised bunch and I didn't notice any sneering, badmouthing or withering insults. Let us know how you get on! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I was just about positive you wouldn't admit your assertion was metaphysical, because if it is, according to the statement itself, it's not real. You can't measure it, you can't use it to make predictions, you can't prove it, and there's no evidence for it. It's fine to believe it if it pleases you, but it isn't a scientific statement You didn't realize it was metaphysical, did you? Opsie! The rest of the post was irrelevant bullshit where classical theism is concerned. But this howler was too good to pass up, especially since your whole ignorant argument falls apart without it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=scientism http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=scientism ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Is that it? No argument whatsoever? But then you didn't have one going in to the discussion so why would you have one at the end. Business as usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : (snip all kinds of nonsense) You do realize this is a metaphysical, not a scientific, statement, do you not? So the only way it isn't in conflict with science is because it isn't measurable. And if it isn't measurable it isn't real.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Oh, stop saying that. Of course I have an argument, and you know it. You just don't want to even try to take it in. Heaven forfend you allow yourself to be challenged. Scary! Maybe one god less isn't quite the knockdown blow that you imagined it was. You know, you're such a smart guy; you know a lot; you're insightful; and you have a great sense of humor. But boy, you freak out when you're challenged. Say, when are you going to post that complete description of quantum mechanics I asked you for? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : I see you are reduced to your usual nitpicking in order to mask the fact you have no argument. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : BTW, it's Feser, not Fess. I corrected you once on this already. It's not really such a difficult name to spell. And I notice from the Ed Fess blog
Re: [FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo
What is Modern India? The place hasn't changed much since the British left. Most of the wiring in buildings is from the 1910s. Reminded me of the 1930s Frankenstein movie. The rich are terrible enfants there too so they can't tax them enough to make modern sewage and water systems. You'd think they would prefer to not see open sewers. OTOH, it would take a PSA like that change things there. Those of us who have traveled in Indian and know the culture can understand how it could work. On 04/16/2014 11:18 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Modern India, home of all knowledge and the Va-Va-Voom Vedas, has a problem with over 50% of its population just shitting in the streets, so they commissioned this Public Service Announcement to turn things around. Somehow I don't think dancing poo is quite gonna do it. India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, So They Made A PSA - Digg http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa image http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, ... http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Yup, apparently over half the population in India just craps right out in the open and we're pretty sure a video of dancing poops isn't going to help. View on digg.com http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
And those countries provide a lot of services to their citizens while YOUR tax dollars go to line the pockets of the banksters. On 04/16/2014 11:09 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 4/16/2014 12:29 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Provincial Sales Tax. Just like State tax and they vary from Province to Province. Alberta, for example, has no Provincial sales tax. In a recent report, Belgians paid the highest income tax - 55.8%. Germany came in second, with a tax burden at 49.3 per cent. Canada was ranked 26th among the 31 OECD nations, with a 31.1 per cent tax wedge. The U.S. ranked 25th, with a slightly higher tax wedge of 31.3 per cent. http://www.avast.com/ This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
You mean, the post where I pointed out to Salyavin that he was hanging his hat on metaphysics rather than science? BTW, I haven't noticed that Salyavin has any hesitation about paying attention to me. He did start this discussion, after all, and he sure doesn't seem as though he's ready to quit. But he does seem to be more interested in blathering than engaging, so I'd be perfectly happy if he just gave it up. Finally, imagine someone who, when called on this, has nothing to fall back on but trying to correct the person they're trying to get attention from about a nitpick.
Re: [FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo What is Modern India? The place hasn't changed much since the British left. Most of the wiring in buildings is from the 1910s. Reminded me of the 1930s Frankenstein movie. The rich are terrible enfants there too so they can't tax them enough to make modern sewage and water systems. You'd think they would prefer to not see open sewers. OTOH, it would take a PSA like that change things there. Those of us who have traveled in Indian and know the culture can understand how it could work. Heck, all it took to stop drunken British tourists from shitting in the streets of Sitges was to institute some heavy fines. :-) On 04/16/2014 11:18 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Modern India, home of all knowledge and the Va-Va-Voom Vedas, has a problem with over 50% of its population just shitting in the streets, so they commissioned this Public Service Announcement to turn things around. Somehow I don't think dancing poo is quite gonna do it. India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, So They Made A PSA - Digg India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, ... Yup, apparently over half the population in India just craps right out in the open and we're pretty sure a video of dancing poops isn't going to help. View on digg.com Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
Hey, I, unlike the TMO am willing to admit if I have been in error - I am willing to believe a great deal, but not without evidence, and the TMO in 60 years have offered st best flawed studies done by folks whose gravy train is TM - and you have to go beyond the studies and see what the deal is on the ground. I don't give a tinker's damn what Oprah, Hugh Jackman or any TM so-called scientist says about TM when I have seen the dysfunction TM brings with my own eyes. Now I will admit that if one does TM at home AND HAS TO TAKE CARE OF A FAMILY AND WORK A FULLTIME JOB one may have more balance. BUT when you have TM for TM's sake in places like Livingston Manor or MIU, you have a facility filled with the TM walking dead. On Wed, 4/16/14, lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2014, 4:53 PM Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by dis-interested parties? What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the brain than they found in this study? http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't as single-mindedly evil as you say it is. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Jesus Buck! Of all the exhortations you might give for me to come back to TM the idea of examining the research is the worst! The science is a joke, it is a bunch of people who feed off the Movement saying here is our finding - believe it cuz we say its true and don't pay attention to anything else. I finally had sense enough to conduct my own research into consciousness and into practical reality on the ground with the TMO and discovered that once I stopped thinking that all the crappy stuff that happens in life is something good cuz the Movement says it is, once I stopped turning a blind eye to the abuse the Movement visits on people everyday (you have been on the receiving end of that I see from the excerpt of Joe Webber's book I've been reading) and looked clearly at the results of TM in people's lives, saw the number of men and women who were quitting for various reasons I got the hell out and I am gonna stay out. I won't support an organization that lies, cheats, steals and ruins peoples' lives with no shame. You would do well to take a leaf from my book, cause even tho you have already experienced this, you don't seem to have gotten the memo that if you fool around with the TMO, you are gonna get treated like garbage.
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! ... Now I will admit that if one does TM at home AND HAS TO TAKE CARE OF A FAMILY AND WORK A FULLTIME JOB one may have more balance. BUT when you have TM for TM's sake in places like Livingston Manor or MIU, you have a facility filled with the TM walking dead. Bingo. And the amazing thing is that everyone knows this, and everyone claims not to notice.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : You mean, the post where I pointed out to Salyavin that he was hanging his hat on metaphysics rather than science? I was impressed, it was a damn good way of getting out of answering the question. Again. And laden with your usual insults to cover your embarrassment too perhaps. BTW, I haven't noticed that Salyavin has any hesitation about paying attention to me. He did start this discussion, after all, and he sure doesn't seem as though he's ready to quit. But he does seem to be more interested in blathering than engaging, so I'd be perfectly happy if he just gave it up. I bet, it's a tricky question to answer because it requires invoking things that can't be observed and that don't fit in with what can be observed. Be as metaphysical as you like! But if you want to drop it fine. I couldn't answer it. Finally, imagine someone who, when called on this, has nothing to fall back on but trying to correct the person they're trying to get attention from about a nitpick.
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
I ahve Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Unc. Of COURSE I worry about such things. I worry about them constantly, even/especially while meditating. It's the center of my life, to worry about things. So, I've got a pretty good idea of what would happen if I became certain that I was wrong about something: I'd worry about THAT, too. BUT... what if I was wrong about being wrong? Have you ever considered THAT scenario? I have. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: LEnglish5@... LEnglish5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield! Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by dis-interested parties? What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the brain than they found in this study? http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't as single-mindedly evil as you say it is. As much as I hate to say it, Lawson, to my ears you are sounding more and more like a religious fanatic, growing progressively more desperate to prove that what he has been taught to believe is true. Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if it weren't? Have you ever even considered the possibility?
Re: [FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo
On 04/16/2014 11:48 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo What is Modern India? The place hasn't changed much since the British left. Most of the wiring in buildings is from the 1910s. Reminded me of the 1930s Frankenstein movie. The rich are terrible enfants there too so they can't tax them enough to make modern sewage and water systems. You'd think they would prefer to not see open sewers. OTOH, it would take a PSA like that change things there. Those of us who have traveled in Indian and know the culture can understand how it could work. Heck, all it took to stop drunken British tourists from shitting in the streets of Sitges was to institute some heavy fines. :-) Problem in India is you can't fine people who don't even have a pot to piss in. ;-) On 04/16/2014 11:18 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Modern India, home of all knowledge and the Va-Va-Voom Vedas, has a problem with over 50% of its population just shitting in the streets, so they commissioned this Public Service Announcement to turn things around. Somehow I don't think dancing poo is quite gonna do it. India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, So They Made A PSA - Digg http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa image http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, ... http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Yup, apparently over half the population in India just craps right out in the open and we're pretty sure a video of dancing poops isn't going to help. View on digg.com http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo
On 4/16/2014 1:18 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Modern India, home of all knowledge and the Va-Va-Voom Vedas, has a problem with over 50% of its population just shitting in the streets Never pass up an opportunity to use a tragic situation to get back at Judy, even if you have to stoop to outright bigotry. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
On 4/16/2014 1:44 PM, Bhairitu wrote: And those countries provide a lot of services to their citizens while YOUR tax dollars go to line the pockets of the banksters. The scenario goes like this: people move out of your state because of the high taxation, and move to a state with lower tax rates. Then, the liberals demand more government services, and so they vote for higher taxation. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
On 4/16/2014 1:37 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: But boy, you freak out when you're challenged. He was speechless when I reminded him that TM was based on thinking, and he couldn't provide an example of a thought causing a physical change. Maybe he believes Barry saw Rama levitate hundreds of times. Maybe he is suggestible like Barry. Maybe you wore him down. Maybe next time he will not engage you in a debate. Maybe. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
On 4/16/2014 1:24 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, finding out that you've been espousing a metaphysical theory has really discombobulated you, has it not? It won't be the first time somebody on this list used metaphysics when they were trying to talk about science. Barry writes science articles but he believes in Buddhas. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
On 04/16/2014 12:59 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 4/16/2014 1:44 PM, Bhairitu wrote: And those countries provide a lot of services to their citizens while YOUR tax dollars go to line the pockets of the banksters. The scenario goes like this: people move out of your state because of the high taxation, and move to a state with lower tax rates. Then, the liberals demand more government services, and so they vote for higher taxation. Go figure. They move out of the state because cost of living is very high. That's what you get in a state that has great weather. Everyone wants to live here. Home and rent prices are climbing. I may even take advantage of this bubble and sell this place for a handsome profit. There are a lot of areas in California that aren't so expensive with decent housing prices. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] !Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is Coming to Fairfield!
So why would TM be any different from any other mantra meditation as far as effects? On 04/16/2014 09:53 AM, lengli...@cox.net wrote: Have you ever contemplated how you would feel if studies like the effects of TM on PTSD in African war refugees are at least partially confirmed by dis-interested parties? What about if I'm right that Dietrich Lehmann and friends will soon publish research on TM that shows that TM has very much the opposite effect on the brain than they found in this study? http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf To my ears, you are sounding progressively more shrill as evidence mounts that TM practice isn't as stupid as you say it is and that the TM organization isn't as single-mindedly evil as you say it is. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Jesus Buck! Of all the exhortations you might give for me to come back to TM the idea of examining the research is the worst! The science is a joke, it is a bunch of people who feed off the Movement saying here is our finding - believe it cuz we say its true and don't pay attention to anything else. I finally had sense enough to conduct my own research into consciousness and into practical reality on the ground with the TMO and discovered that once I stopped thinking that all the crappy stuff that happens in life is something good cuz the Movement says it is, once I stopped turning a blind eye to the abuse the Movement visits on people everyday (you have been on the receiving end of that I see from the excerpt of Joe Webber's book I've been reading) and looked clearly at the results of TM in people's lives, saw the number of men and women who were quitting for various reasons I got the hell out and I am gonna stay out. I won't support an organization that lies, cheats, steals and ruins peoples' lives with no shame. You would do well to take a leaf from my book, cause even tho you have already experienced this, you don't seem to have gotten the memo that if you fool around with the TMO, you are gonna get treated like garbage.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
Which question? You asked a bunch of them. All of them were irrelevant, though. You seem to believe that classical theism and science are in competition--but they aren't, couldn't be. Classical theism doesn't pretend to improve on science. That would be silly. Remember Gould's phrase, nonoverlapping magisteria? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-overlapping_magisteria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-overlapping_magisteria Remember how this started? My point has always been that if you want to defeat theism, you have to address its strongest arguments. But you need to realize that the consequences of not defeating theism are not that science will be defeated. You don't have to defeat theism to protect science, unless you're talking about, say, Creationism, which does challenge science (or aims to do so, unsuccessfully). Classical theism doesn't claim it can be observed or measured or any of what we require of science. But that doesn't mean the God of classical theism isn't real--depending on what you mean by real. What do you mean by real? Define it, please. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : You mean, the post where I pointed out to Salyavin that he was hanging his hat on metaphysics rather than science? I was impressed, it was a damn good way of getting out of answering the question. Again. And laden with your usual insults to cover your embarrassment too perhaps. BTW, I haven't noticed that Salyavin has any hesitation about paying attention to me. He did start this discussion, after all, and he sure doesn't seem as though he's ready to quit. But he does seem to be more interested in blathering than engaging, so I'd be perfectly happy if he just gave it up. I bet, it's a tricky question to answer because it requires invoking things that can't be observed and that don't fit in with what can be observed. Be as metaphysical as you like! But if you want to drop it fine. I couldn't answer it. Finally, imagine someone who, when called on this, has nothing to fall back on but trying to correct the person they're trying to get attention from about a nitpick.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Mother India --
Since when did India and not Being become home of all knowledge ? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Modern India, home of all knowledge and the Va-Va-Voom Vedas, has a problem with over 50% of its population just shitting in the streets, so they commissioned this Public Service Announcement to turn things around. Somehow I don't think dancing poo is quite gonna do it. India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, So They Made A PSA - Digg http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, ... http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Yup, apparently over half the population in India just craps right out in the open and we're pretty sure a video of dancing poops isn't going to help. View on digg.com http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Pharrell Sobs Tears Of Joy While Watching The World Dance To ‘Happy’ (Video)
http://elitedaily.com/music/pharrell-sobs-tears-of-joy-while-watching-the-world-dance-to-happy/ http://elitedaily.com/music/pharrell-sobs-tears-of-joy-while-watching-the-world-dance-to-happy/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Mother India --
It's all about Judy - it probably really has nothing to do with living conditions in India. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Since when did India and not Being become home of all knowledge ? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Modern India, home of all knowledge and the Va-Va-Voom Vedas, has a problem with over 50% of its population just shitting in the streets, so they commissioned this Public Service Announcement to turn things around. Somehow I don't think dancing poo is quite gonna do it. India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, So They Made A PSA - Digg http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa India Has A Problem With People Sh*tting In Public, ... http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Yup, apparently over half the population in India just craps right out in the open and we're pretty sure a video of dancing poops isn't going to help. View on digg.com http://digg.com/video/india-has-a-problem-with-people-sh-tting-in-public-so-they-made-a-psa Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Welcome To The Imperial - Where 90% of Guests are Indian
Humble Americans, if you will be able to find one, are also welcome: http://www.theimperialindia.com/ http://www.theimperialindia.com/
Re: [FairfieldLife] More Mother India -- Take your poo to the loo
Last time in New Delhi I stayed here: http://www.theimperialindia.com/ http://www.theimperialindia.com/ and quess what: 90% of the guests were Indian. Please take your extreme American prejudices somewhere else Bhairitu. You could start by trying to find out why 50 million Americans go hungry.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Tax Day!
On 4/16/2014 3:23 PM, Bhairitu wrote: On 04/16/2014 12:59 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 4/16/2014 1:44 PM, Bhairitu wrote: And those countries provide a lot of services to their citizens while YOUR tax dollars go to line the pockets of the banksters. The scenario goes like this: people move out of your state because of the high taxation, and move to a state with lower tax rates. Then, the liberals demand more government services, and so they vote for higher taxation. Go figure. They move out of the state because cost of living is very high. That's what you get in a state that has great weather. Everyone wants to live here. Home and rent prices are climbing. I may even take advantage of this bubble and sell this place for a handsome profit. There are a lot of areas in California that aren't so expensive with decent housing prices. You could sell that place and probably get enough money to buy two or three places somewhere else. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: FP’s Situation Report: Russian troops, or Ukrainian defectors?; New York...
On 4/16/2014 11:17 AM, wle...@aol.com wrote: Russian troops, or Ukrainian defectors? The noose is tightening but the defense is weakening in Europe. There is no Obama red line in Ukraine - nobody is going to step in and fight for the Ukrainians. Europe is dependent on foreign oil - that's the bottom line. In ten years, Europe will be speaking Russian. Go figure. Washington and NATO have made clear they will not fight to protect Ukraine. Instead, NATO announced urgent new steps to reinforce the security of alliance members that border on it. http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-tightens-grip-eastern-town-talks-073939979.html --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
