[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Gilbert Isbin]

   Thanks for your answer Daniel
   Indeed when I toured in California with bassplayer Scott Walton (USA)
   in some conservatories - in one of them we did a workshop on
   improvisation-, galleries, and other places I got the feeling that
   there was more openess. We even played in a jazzclub. But before anyone
   get the impression that I see myself as a misunderstood, mistreated
   composer or lutenist I should point out that a lot of my works have
   been published by the UK Lute Society and that my book The Improvising
   Lutenist will be published next year by Mel Bay and quite some of my
   compositions have been performed by wonderful players.

   âI will just continue to compose and perform. I love the instrument too
   much. â

   2018-03-18 18:38 GMT+01:00 Daniel Shoskes <[1]kidneykut...@gmail.com>:

   Well, people will sometimes hear a dog whistle that's only audible to
   them.
   Allow me to touch on a couple of your original points that I don't
   think have been discussed. You asked why lutenists who try to do
   something else with the instrument are looked down on. Presumably by
   something else you meant play new works or transcripted modern pieces?
   Have you found this to be the case? Maybe when I was new to the lute
   world 15 years ago I heard some grumblings about Ronn McFarlane only
   playing his own music but it certainly hasn't been an ongoing theme.
   Needless to say Ronn's superb musicianship and talent with early music,
   his own compositions and with his group Ayreheart have proven
   artistically and commercially successful. Chris Wilke plays jazz on his
   instruments and that doesn't make him any less respected as a continuo
   player. Is this more of an issue outside the US?

   You brought up recorder players as a group more open to new music. I
   think it is interesting to look at the recorder and viol societies,
   again at least in the US. These are very driven by a committed group of
   amateurs and enthusiasts, I think to an even greater degree than in the
   lute world currently. Where new compositions can fill a niche in those
   communities is often with easier pieces for students. Indeed you have
   composed sets of easy pieces for Ren lute and Roman has composed many
   works for baroque lute that are technically less demanding than Mouton
   or Weiss, are fantastic resources, and do open the ear of beginning
   players to music beyond the original composers.
   In any case, I applaud your commitment to the instrument, to
   encouraging the art of improvisation and to extending the sonic
   possibilities. FWIW, each of my 3 CD's has an original composition on
   it, one of which was a commission.
   Danny
   > On Mar 18, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Gilbert Isbin
   <[2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
   >
   >Very strange that the original subject of Some Questions is
   evolving
   >into a totally different subject.
   >
   >With kind regards,
   >
   >Met vriendelijke groeten,
   >
   >Bien cordialement,
   >Gilbert Isbin
   >[1][3]www.gilbertisbin.com
   >[2][4]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   >2018-03-18 16:41 GMT+01:00 Dan Winheld <[3][5]dwinh...@lmi.net>:
   >
   >

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   4. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   5. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Daniel Shoskes]

Well, people will sometimes hear a dog whistle that’s only audible to them.

Allow me to touch on a couple of your original points that I don’t think have 
been discussed. You asked why lutenists who try to do something else with the 
instrument are looked down on. Presumably by something else you meant play new 
works or transcripted modern pieces? Have you found this to be the case? Maybe 
when I was new to the lute world 15 years ago I heard some grumblings about 
Ronn McFarlane only playing his own music but it certainly hasn’t been an 
ongoing theme. Needless to say Ronn’s superb musicianship and talent with early 
music, his own compositions and with his group Ayreheart have proven 
artistically and commercially successful. Chris Wilke plays jazz on his 
instruments and that doesn’t make him any less respected as a continuo player. 
Is this more of an issue outside the US? 

You brought up recorder players as a group more open to new music. I think it 
is interesting to look at the recorder and viol societies, again at least in 
the US. These are very driven by a committed group of amateurs and enthusiasts, 
I think to an even greater degree than in the lute world currently. Where new 
compositions can fill a niche in those communities is often with easier pieces 
for students. Indeed you have composed sets of easy pieces for Ren lute and 
Roman has composed many works for baroque lute that are technically less 
demanding than Mouton or Weiss, are fantastic resources, and do open the ear of 
beginning players to music beyond the original composers.

In any case, I applaud your commitment to the instrument, to encouraging the 
art of improvisation and to extending the sonic possibilities. FWIW, each of my 
3 CD’s has an original composition on it, one of which was a commission. 

Danny

> On Mar 18, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Gilbert Isbin  wrote:
> 
>   Very strange that the original subject of Some Questions is evolving
>   into a totally different subject.
> 
>   With kind regards,
> 
>   Met vriendelijke groeten,
> 
>   Bien cordialement,
>   Gilbert Isbin
>   [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
>   [2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
>   2018-03-18 16:41 GMT+01:00 Dan Winheld <[3]dwinh...@lmi.net>:
> 
>   



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Mathias Rösel]

Erm... - yes, of course, I never meant to collect lutes for the wall. I do play 
them as I want to explore their respective repertoires. I don't suppose Ron 
wanted to cartoon non-playing collectors.

Ron's point seems to be valid, nevertheless. There should be affordable lutes 
for players-to-be as well as for professionals who, as is sadly well known, 
don't get paid wealth for their music making.

The American, British, German lute societies offer lutes to be let (not sure 
about the Japanese, Belgian, Netherlands lute societies), and I support that.

Mathias



-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
Datum: 2018-03-18T13:40:59+0100
Von: "Tristan von Neumann" <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
An: "lutelist Net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

Well, it is about the use of the word "collect" then.
You just own six lutes.
Also, you did not mention that you built most of them yourself.


Am 18.03.2018 um 07:01 schrieb spiffys84121:
> Hmm. I never thought I'd need to defend my status as a working lute
> player because I have a 'collection' of six lutes (4 of which I built).
> So- if i reduce the collection down to one single, silly seven course,
> then I can be worthy? Yes folks- we're truly livin in the age of
> trump(;
> 
> Sterling
> 
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
> Date: 3/17/18 9:37 PM (GMT-07:00)
> To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
> 
> Yes, but they are not "collecting" lutes I guess. They have them
> because
> they can play the music intended for it.
> Lute collectors seem mostly wealthy amateurs :)
> If I don't play an instrument enough, I give it away or sell it.
> Am 17.03.2018 um 22:46 schrieb spiffys84121:
> > Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't have
> at
> > least a few lutes?
> >
> > S
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> >
> >  Original message 
> > From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>
> > Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
> > To: mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
> >
> >Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.
> > While
> >not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding
> >craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for
> professional
> >musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting
> lutes
> > into
> >the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic
> creates a
> >*class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young
> persons
> > with
> >both interest and potential.
> >The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many
> years
> > now,
> >enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The
> American
> > lute
> >organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute
> rental*
> >program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish
> they
> > would
> >call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on
> getting
> > their
> >growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential
> >lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
> >When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
> > barrier,
> >and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and
> the
> >instrument will thrive in the future.
> >RA
> >
> __
> >From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
> > behalf
> >of mathias.roe...@t-online.de <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
> >Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
> >To: Lutelist
> >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
> >   Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with
> the
> > lute
> >I
> >   used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that
&g

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Eh!
 __

   From: Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
   To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2018, 12:41
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   It shines through in this forum. :)
   Am 18.03.2018 um 09:32 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:
   >Have you undertaken a survey to be able to assert any of this
   (other
   >than you divesting yourself of some instruments)?
   >MH
   >
   __
   >
   >From: Tristan von Neumann <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
   >To: lutelist Net <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2018, 4:25
   >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >Yes, but they are not "collecting" lutes I guess. They have them
   >because
   >they can play the music intended for it.
   >Lute collectors seem mostly wealthy amateurs :)
   >If I don't play an instrument enough, I give it away or sell it.
   >Am 17.03.2018 um 22:46 schrieb spiffys84121:
   >>Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't
   have at
   >>least a few lutes?
   >>
   >>S
   >>
   >>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
   >>
   >> Original message 
   >>From: Ron Andrico <[1][3]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   >>Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
   >>To: [2][4]mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist
   ><[3][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >>
   >>Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important
   point.
   >>While
   >>not as expensive as they should be relative to the
   demanding
   >>craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for
   >professional
   >>musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to
   getting
   >lutes
   >>into
   >>the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic
   >creates a
   >>*class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young
   >persons
   >>with
   >>both interest and potential.
   >>The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for
   many
   >years
   >>now,
   >>enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The
   >American
   >>lute
   >>organization has recently implemented what they call a
   *lute
   >rental*
   >>program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I
   wish
   >they
   >>would
   >>call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on
   >getting
   >>their
   >>growing collection of instruments into the hands of
   potential
   >>lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
   >>When it's possible for any interested person without the
   cost
   >>barrier,
   >>and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than
   unusual, and
   >the
   >>instrument will thrive in the future.
   >>RA
   >>
   >__________
   >>From: [4][6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   ><[5][7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   >>behalf
   >>of [6][8]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
   ><[7][9]mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   >>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
   >>To: Lutelist
   >>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >>  Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years
   with
   >the
   >>lute
   >>I
   >>  used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute
   that
   >Larry
   >>Brown
   >>  had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I
   mean
   >anything
   >>  (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
   >>  When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck.
   Then
   >I
   >>  discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks
   aren't
   >best
   >>for
   >>  French Baroque. Then there was that short era of
   >transitional
   >>tunings,
   >>  requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

Well, it is about the use of the word "collect" then.
You just own six lutes.
Also, you did not mention that you built most of them yourself.


Am 18.03.2018 um 07:01 schrieb spiffys84121:

Hmm. I never thought I'd need to defend my status as a working lute
player because I have a 'collection' of six lutes (4 of which I built).
So- if i reduce the collection down to one single, silly seven course,
then I can be worthy? Yes folks- we're truly livin in the age of
trump(;

Sterling

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
Date: 3/17/18 9:37 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

Yes, but they are not "collecting" lutes I guess. They have them
because
they can play the music intended for it.
Lute collectors seem mostly wealthy amateurs :)
If I don't play an instrument enough, I give it away or sell it.
Am 17.03.2018 um 22:46 schrieb spiffys84121:
> Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't have
at
> least a few lutes?
>
> S
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>  Original message 
> From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>
> Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>
>Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.
> While
>not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding
>craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for
professional
>musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting
lutes
> into
>the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic
creates a
>*class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young
persons
> with
>both interest and potential.
>The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many
years
> now,
>enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The
American
> lute
>organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute
rental*
>program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish
they
> would
>call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on
getting
> their
>growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential
>lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
>When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
> barrier,
>and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and
the
>instrument will thrive in the future.
>RA
>
__
>From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
> behalf
    >    of mathias.roe...@t-online.de <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
>To: Lutelist
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>   Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with
the
> lute
>I
>   used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that
Larry
>Brown
>   had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean
anything
>   (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
>   When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then
I
>   discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't
best
> for
>   French Baroque. Then there was that short era of
transitional
>tunings,
>   requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a
liuto
>attiorbato
>   with single basses is not really the thing for Italian
arciliuto
>music
>   which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I
omit the
>   serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angà ©lique.
>   I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c
lute,
>probably,
>   which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and
so
> was
>my
>   curiosity for new shores to explore.
>       Mathias
    >
>
___

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

It shines through in this forum. :)

Am 18.03.2018 um 09:32 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:

Have you undertaken a survey to be able to assert any of this (other
than you divesting yourself of some instruments)?
MH
  __

From: Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2018, 4:25
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
Yes, but they are not "collecting" lutes I guess. They have them
because
they can play the music intended for it.
Lute collectors seem mostly wealthy amateurs :)
If I don't play an instrument enough, I give it away or sell it.
Am 17.03.2018 um 22:46 schrieb spiffys84121:
>Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't have at
>least a few lutes?
>
>S
>
>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
> Original message 
>From: Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
>Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
>To: [2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist
    <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>
>Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.
>While
>not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding
>craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for
professional
>musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting
lutes
>into
>the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic
creates a
>*class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young
persons
>with
>both interest and potential.
>The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many
years
>now,
>enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The
American
>lute
>organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute
rental*
>program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish
they
>would
>call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on
getting
>their
>growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential
>lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
>When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
>barrier,
>and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and
the
>instrument will thrive in the future.
>RA
>
__
>From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<[5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
>behalf
>of [6]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
<[7]mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
>To: Lutelist
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>  Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with
the
>lute
>I
>  used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that
Larry
>Brown
>  had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean
anything
>  (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
>  When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then
I
>  discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't
best
>for
>  French Baroque. Then there was that short era of
transitional
>tunings,
>  requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a liuto
>attiorbato
>  with single basses is not really the thing for Italian
arciliuto
>music
>  which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I omit
the
>  serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angÃÆ ©lique.
>  I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c
lute,
>probably,
>  which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and
so
>was
>my
>  curiosity for new shores to explore.
>      Mathias
>
>__
>  Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
>  --- Original-Nachricht ---
>  Von: Tristan von Neumann
>  Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>  Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr
>  An: lutelist Net
>   

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Have you undertaken a survey to be able to assert any of this (other
   than you divesting yourself of some instruments)?
   MH
 __

   From: Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
   To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2018, 4:25
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Yes, but they are not "collecting" lutes I guess. They have them
   because
   they can play the music intended for it.
   Lute collectors seem mostly wealthy amateurs :)
   If I don't play an instrument enough, I give it away or sell it.
   Am 17.03.2018 um 22:46 schrieb spiffys84121:
   >Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't have at
   >least a few lutes?
   >
   >S
   >
   >Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
   >
   > Original message 
   >From: Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   >Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
   >To: [2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist
   <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >
   >Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.
   >While
   >not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding
   >craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for
   professional
   >musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting
   lutes
   >into
   >the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic
   creates a
   >*class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young
   persons
   >with
   >both interest and potential.
   >The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many
   years
   >now,
   >enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The
   American
   >lute
   >organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute
   rental*
   >program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish
   they
   >would
   >call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on
   getting
   >their
   >growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential
   >lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
   >When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
   >barrier,
   >and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and
   the
   >instrument will thrive in the future.
   >RA
   >
   __
   >From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   <[5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   >behalf
   >    of [6]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
   <[7]mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   >Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
   >To: Lutelist
   >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >  Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with
   the
   >lute
   >I
   >  used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that
   Larry
   >Brown
   >  had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean
   anything
   >  (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
   >  When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then
   I
   >  discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't
   best
   >for
   >  French Baroque. Then there was that short era of
   transitional
   >tunings,
   >  requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a liuto
   >attiorbato
   >  with single basses is not really the thing for Italian
   arciliuto
   >music
   >  which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I omit
   the
   >  serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angÃÆ ©lique.
   >  I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c
   lute,
   >probably,
   >  which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and
   so
   >was
   >my
   >  curiosity for new shores to explore.
   >      Mathias
   >
   >__
   >  Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   >  --- Original-Nachricht ---
   >  Von: Tristan von Neumann
   >  Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >  Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr
   >  An: lutelist Net
   >  Some people don't have the funds to "collect lutes" :)
   >  I'm quite happy with 7 courses - it's amazing how just one
   extra
   >cou

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[spiffys84121]

   Hmm. I never thought I'd need to defend my status as a working lute
   player because I have a 'collection' of six lutes (4 of which I built).
   So- if i reduce the collection down to one single, silly seven course,
   then I can be worthy? Yes folks- we're truly livin in the age of
   trump(;

   Sterling

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
   Date: 3/17/18 9:37 PM (GMT-07:00)
   To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

   Yes, but they are not "collecting" lutes I guess. They have them
   because
   they can play the music intended for it.
   Lute collectors seem mostly wealthy amateurs :)
   If I don't play an instrument enough, I give it away or sell it.
   Am 17.03.2018 um 22:46 schrieb spiffys84121:
   > Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't have
   at
   > least a few lutes?
   >
   > S
   >
   > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
   >
   >  Original message 
   > From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>
   > Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
   > To: mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >
   >Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.
   > While
   >not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding
   >craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for
   professional
   >musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting
   lutes
   > into
   >the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic
   creates a
   >*class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young
   persons
   > with
   >both interest and potential.
   >The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many
   years
   > now,
   >enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The
   American
   > lute
   >organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute
   rental*
   >program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish
   they
   > would
   >call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on
   getting
   > their
   >growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential
   >lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
   >When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
   > barrier,
   >and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and
   the
   >instrument will thrive in the future.
   >RA
   >
   __
   >From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   > behalf
   >        of mathias.roe...@t-online.de <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   >Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
   >To: Lutelist
   >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >   Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with
   the
   > lute
   >I
   >   used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that
   Larry
   >Brown
   >   had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean
   anything
   >   (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
   >   When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then
   I
   >   discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't
   best
   > for
   >   French Baroque. Then there was that short era of
   transitional
   >tunings,
   >   requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a
   liuto
   >attiorbato
   >   with single basses is not really the thing for Italian
   arciliuto
   >music
   >   which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I
   omit the
   >   serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angà ©lique.
   >   I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c
   lute,
   >probably,
   >   which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and
   so
   > was
   >my
   >   curiosity for new shores to explore.
   >           Mathias
   >
   >
   __
   >   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   >   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   >   Von: Tristan von Neumann
   >   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >   Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr
   >   A

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

Yes, but they are not "collecting" lutes I guess. They have them because 
they can play the music intended for it.

Lute collectors seem mostly wealthy amateurs :)
If I don't play an instrument enough, I give it away or sell it.


Am 17.03.2018 um 22:46 schrieb spiffys84121:

Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't have at
least a few lutes?

S

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>
Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

   Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.
While
   not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding
   craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for professional
   musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting lutes
into
   the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic creates a
   *class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young persons
with
   both interest and potential.
   The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many years
now,
   enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The American
lute
   organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute rental*
   program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish they
would
   call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on getting
their
   growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential
   lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
   When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
barrier,
   and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and the
   instrument will thrive in the future.
   RA
 __
   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
behalf
   of mathias.roe...@t-online.de <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
   To: Lutelist
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
  Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with the
lute
   I
  used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that Larry
   Brown
  had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean anything
  (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
  When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then I
  discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't best
for
  French Baroque. Then there was that short era of transitional
   tunings,
  requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a liuto
   attiorbato
  with single basses is not really the thing for Italian arciliuto
   music
  which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I omit the
  serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angà ©lique.
  I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c lute,
   probably,
  which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and so
was
   my
  curiosity for new shores to explore.
  Mathias

__
  Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
  --- Original-Nachricht ---
  Von: Tristan von Neumann
  Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
  Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr
  An: lutelist Net
  Some people don't have the funds to "collect lutes" :)
  I'm quite happy with 7 courses - it's amazing how just one extra
   course
  extends the repertoire well into the 17th century, if you don't
mind
  playing just the upper octaves.
  Am 17.03.2018 um 02:52 schrieb spiffys84121:
  > I will play any music on lutes, if it works for that lute. I
   believe
  in
  > using the right tool for the job-- unlike guitarists and
pianists
   who
  > endeavor to build the whole house with just a hammer.
  >
  > My question-- do most lute players only specialize in one
   repertoire?
  I
  > play any lute music from almost the entire history of the
lute--
  except
  > medieval. Of course this requires multiple lutes, which I'm
happy
   to
  > collect and play. I go through phases, like sometimes all I
want
   to
  do
  > is play six course music; then all of a sudden baroque lute is
all
   I
  > care about in life. Right now I'm obsessed with the liuto
   attiorbato
  > which I think is the most versatile of all lutes. If for s

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[spiffys84121]

   Hmm. Are there  -any- professional lute players that don't have at
   least a few lutes?

   S

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>
   Date: 3/17/18 6:36 AM (GMT-07:00)
   To: mathias.roe...@t-online.de, Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

  Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.
   While
  not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding
  craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for professional
  musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting lutes
   into
  the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic creates a
  *class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young persons
   with
  both interest and potential.
  The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many years
   now,
  enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The American
   lute
  organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute rental*
  program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish they
   would
  call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on getting
   their
  growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential
  lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.
  When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
   barrier,
  and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and the
  instrument will thrive in the future.
  RA
__
  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
  of mathias.roe...@t-online.de <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
  Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM
  To: Lutelist
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
 Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with the
   lute
  I
 used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that Larry
  Brown
 had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean anything
 (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
 When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then I
 discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't best
   for
 French Baroque. Then there was that short era of transitional
  tunings,
 requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a liuto
  attiorbato
 with single basses is not really the thing for Italian arciliuto
  music
 which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I omit the
 serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angà ©lique.
 I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c lute,
  probably,
 which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and so
   was
  my
 curiosity for new shores to explore.
 Mathias

   __
 Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
 --- Original-Nachricht ---
 Von: Tristan von Neumann
     Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
 Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr
 An: lutelist Net
 Some people don't have the funds to "collect lutes" :)
 I'm quite happy with 7 courses - it's amazing how just one extra
  course
 extends the repertoire well into the 17th century, if you don't
   mind
 playing just the upper octaves.
 Am 17.03.2018 um 02:52 schrieb spiffys84121:
 > I will play any music on lutes, if it works for that lute. I
  believe
 in
 > using the right tool for the job-- unlike guitarists and
   pianists
  who
 > endeavor to build the whole house with just a hammer.
 >
 > My question-- do most lute players only specialize in one
  repertoire?
 I
 > play any lute music from almost the entire history of the
   lute--
 except
 > medieval. Of course this requires multiple lutes, which I'm
   happy
  to
 > collect and play. I go through phases, like sometimes all I
   want
  to
 do
 > is play six course music; then all of a sudden baroque lute is
   all
  I
 > care about in life. Right now I'm obsessed with the liuto
  attiorbato
 > which I think is the most versatile of all lutes. If for some
  reason
 I
 > had to have only one lute, it would be an attiorbato. One can
   play
 > hundreds of years worth of music on it(in a pinch) I'm working
   on
  my
 > version of 'Georga on my Mind' at present. My attiorbatos have
   a
 range
 > of 5 octaves.
 >
 > Sterling
 >
 &

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Christopher Wilke]

   Hi Ron,

   I can't speak to your past experience with the LSA back in 2000 because
   I wasn't on the board at that time. However, the "recent" lute rental
   program has actually been in place for more than a decade. Michael
   Grant has really ramped up the program during his tenure has director.

   The LSA rental program is an asset for the lute in the US because it
   broadens accessibility to what is still an obscure instrument in this
   country. (We're hoping to have a more active branch in Canada as well,
   but border issues make this difficult on multiple fronts.) Virtually
   all renters eventually end up purchasing an instrument. Some commision
   instruments; their trial time with the rental lute has allowed them to
   refine their personal preferences without huge financial outlay. That's
   good because because it also drives business to our luthier community.

   A minority of renters return their lutes having decided they don't have
   time for it or that it's simply not for them. This is good too. They're
   still likely to come away with respect for the instrument and its
   players. However, if someone feels like their only entry way to lute
   playing is to drop $7000 on purchasing an instrument, only to discover
   it's not their thing, it's a great way to build resentment.

   Best,

   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Saturday, March 17, 2018, 8:39 AM, Ron Andrico
   <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Tristan and Mathais, you have hit upon a very important point.  While

 not as expensive as they should be relative to the demanding

 craftsmanship of construction, lutes are too costly for professional

 musicians to *collect*.  That is a major hurdle to getting lutes into

 the hands of budding players, and the unfortunate dynamic creates a

 *class* of lute players that might possibly exclude young persons
   with

 both interest and potential.

 The Lute Society (UK) has had a lute hire program for many years now,

 enabling interested persons to sample an instrument.  The American
   lute

 organization has recently implemented what they call a *lute rental*

 program, an innovation I proposed to them in 2000.  I wish they would

 call it a *lute access* program, placing the emphasis on getting
   their

 growing collection of instruments into the hands of potential

 lutenists, rather than the gory details of renting them.

 When it's possible for any interested person without the cost
   barrier,

 and only then, lutes will seem normal rather than unusual, and the

 instrument will thrive in the future.

 RA

   __

 From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf

 of [4]mathias.roe...@t-online.de <[5]mathias.roe...@t-online.de>

 Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 AM

 To: Lutelist

     Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

 Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with the
   lute

 I

 used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that Larry

 Brown

 had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean anything

 (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).

 When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then I

 discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't best
   for

 French Baroque. Then there was that short era of transitional

 tunings,

 requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a liuto

 attiorbato

 with single basses is not really the thing for Italian arciliuto

 music

 which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I omit the

 serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angÃÆ ©lique.

 I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c lute,

 probably,

 which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and so
   was

 my

 curiosity for new shores to explore.

 Mathias


   __

 Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App

 --- Original-Nachricht ---

 Von: Tristan von Neumann

     Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

 Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr

 An: lutelist Net

 Some people don't have the funds to "collect lutes" :)

 I'm quite happy with 7 courses - it's amazing how just one extra

 course

 extends the repertoire well into the 17th century, if you don't
   mind

 playing just the upper octaves.

 Am 17.03.2018 um 02:52 schrieb spiffys84121:

 > I will play any music on lutes, if it works for that lute. I

 believe

 in

 > using the right tool for the job-- unlike guitarists and
   pianists

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Jurgen Frenz]

oops I was ignorant about this - thank you Martyn!
Jurgen


​\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 16 March 2018 3:52 PM, Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Dear Jurgen,
> 
> A 1986 (modern?) paraphrase of a Wolf song for 13 course Dm lute is
> 
> found on the Lute Society site.
> 
> Look under Lute Society free downloads. Cut and paste these into your
> 
> browser
> 
> \[1\]http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/free-downloads
> 
> \[2\]http://www.lutesociety.org/vanilla/lutesoc/uploads/members-compositi
> 
> ons/martyn-hodgson/Paraphrase%20on%20Wolf%20Dm%20lute.pdf
> 
> MH
> 
> \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
> 
> From: Jurgen Frenz eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
> 
> To: Tristan von Neumann tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
> 
> Cc: lutelist Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 
> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2018, 8:23
> 
> Subject: \[LUTE\] Re: Some questions
> 
> There are many great songs by Hugo Wolf - the piano score would need to
> 
> be reduced in ambitus to fit in the range of any lute.
> 
> Johann Kaspar Mertz is the only "real" guitar composer of the romantic
> 
> period AND often (not all of it) is fairly hard to play. What is even
> 
> more interesting about Mertz is that all of his work is online on the
> 
> Swedish academy of music and drama.
> 
> â--
> 
> "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
> 
> JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumiâ
> 
> âââ Original Message âââ
> 
> On 16 March 2018 7:22 AM, Tristan von Neumann
> 
> <\[3\]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> > ââ
> 
> > 
> 
> > Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on
> 
> > 
> 
> > the lute :)
> 
> > 
> 
> > I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute,
> 
> > 
> 
> > though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.
> 
> > 
> 
> > \[4\]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
> 
> > 
> 
> > This song deserves a lute version:
> 
> > 
> 
> > \[5\]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
> 
> > 
> 
> > Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of
> 
> a
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille
> 
> aux
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my
> 
> own
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few
> 
> more
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to
> 
> contemporary
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > lute music and related topics ?"
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Dan
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, \[6\]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > > That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > RT
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron
> 
> \[7\]andricopraelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> > > > > 
> 
> > > > > The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.
> 
> > > > > 
> 
> > > > > RA
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > \[8\]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> --
> 
> References
> 
> 1.  http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/free-downloads
> 2.  
> http://www.lutesociety.org/vanilla/lutesoc/uploads/members-compositions/martyn-hodgson/Paraphrase
>  on Wolf Dm lute.pdf
> 3.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 4.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 5.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 6.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 7.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
> 8.  file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[mathias.roe...@t-online.de]

   Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with the lute I
   used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that Larry Brown
   had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean anything
   (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton).
   When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then I
   discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't best for
   French Baroque. Then there was that short era of transitional tunings,
   requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a liuto attiorbato
   with single basses is not really the thing for Italian arciliuto music
   which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I omit the
   serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angélique.
   I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c lute, probably,
   which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and so was my
   curiosity for new shores to explore.
   Mathias
 __

   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Tristan von Neumann
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr
   An: lutelist Net

   Some people don't have the funds to "collect lutes" :)
   I'm quite happy with 7 courses - it's amazing how just one extra course
   extends the repertoire well into the 17th century, if you don't mind
   playing just the upper octaves.
   Am 17.03.2018 um 02:52 schrieb spiffys84121:
   > I will play any music on lutes, if it works for that lute. I believe
   in
   > using the right tool for the job-- unlike guitarists and pianists who
   > endeavor to build the whole house with just a hammer.
   >
   > My question-- do most lute players only specialize in one repertoire?
   I
   > play any lute music from almost the entire history of the lute--
   except
   > medieval. Of course this requires multiple lutes, which I'm happy to
   > collect and play. I go through phases, like sometimes all I want to
   do
   > is play six course music; then all of a sudden baroque lute is all I
   > care about in life. Right now I'm obsessed with the liuto attiorbato
   > which I think is the most versatile of all lutes. If for some reason
   I
   > had to have only one lute, it would be an attiorbato. One can play
   > hundreds of years worth of music on it(in a pinch) I'm working on my
   > version of 'Georga on my Mind' at present. My attiorbatos have a
   range
   > of 5 octaves.
   >
   > Sterling
   >
   > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
   >
   >  Original message 
   > From: Leonard Williams <[2]arc...@verizon.net>
   > Date: 3/16/18 3:00 PM (GMT-07:00)
   > To: [3]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   >
   > I, myself, was attracted to the lute, via recorders and other
   > early
   > instruments, because I like playing renaissance music. What better
   > way
   > to enjoy it than on the instruments for which it was written? If I
   > were an instructor, I would probably be more inclined to teach
   > guitarists to read lute-tabbed recercari than to play later music on
   > the lute.
   > Leonard
   > -Original Message-
   > From: Mathias.Roesel <[4]mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   > To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   > Sent: Fri, Mar 16, 2018 2:28 pm
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   > Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they
   > like best.
   > Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this
   > tiny
   > community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for
   > the
   > lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing
   > list
   > community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're
   > fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to
   > add
   > that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions
   > about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I
   > for
   > one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes.
   > Mathias
   > __
   > Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   > --- Original-Nachricht ---
   > Von: Wayne
   > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   > Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr
   > An: lute net
   > One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we
   > all,
   > or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of
   > our
   > repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our
   > romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or
   > synth
   > in some cases. If we can choose

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

Some people don't have the funds to "collect lutes" :)

I'm quite happy with 7 courses - it's amazing how just one extra course 
extends the repertoire well into the 17th century, if you don't mind 
playing just the upper octaves.



Am 17.03.2018 um 02:52 schrieb spiffys84121:

I will play any music on lutes, if it works for that lute. I believe in
using the right tool for the job-- unlike guitarists and pianists who
endeavor to build the whole house with just a hammer.

My question-- do most lute players only specialize in one repertoire? I
play any lute music from almost the entire history of the lute-- except
medieval. Of course this requires multiple lutes, which I'm happy to
collect and play. I go through phases, like sometimes all I want to do
is play six course music; then all of a sudden baroque lute is all I
care about in life. Right now I'm obsessed with the liuto attiorbato
which I think is the most versatile of all lutes. If for some reason I
had to have only one lute, it would be an attiorbato. One can play
hundreds of years worth of music on it(in a pinch) I'm working on my
version of 'Georga on my Mind' at present. My attiorbatos have a range
of 5 octaves.

Sterling

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Leonard Williams <arc...@verizon.net>
Date: 3/16/18 3:00 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

   I, myself, was attracted to the lute, via recorders and other
early
   instruments, because I like playing renaissance music.  What better
way
   to enjoy it than on the instruments for which it was written?  If I
   were an instructor, I would probably be more inclined to teach
   guitarists to read lute-tabbed recercari than to play later music on
   the lute.
   Leonard
   -Original Message-
   From: Mathias.Roesel <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Fri, Mar 16, 2018 2:28 pm
       Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they
   like best.
   Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this
tiny
   community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for
the
   lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing
list
   community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're
   fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to
add
   that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions
   about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I
for
   one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes.
   Mathias
   __
   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Wayne
       Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr
   An: lute net
   One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we
all,
   or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of
our
   repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our
   romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or
synth
   in some cases. If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela
we
   can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth. So maybe we
are
   overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a
   different instrument to play something modern. Especially when we
need
   to be as loud as everyone else.
   Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the
lute?
   Wayne
   > Begin forwarded message:
   >
   > From: WALSH STUART <[2][1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   > Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
   >
   > If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is
surely
   odder to only play a lute and only ever to play music that was
composed
   centuries ago.
   >
   > Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person
-
   who would only, ever, play centuries' old music (however gem-laden
it
   may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the
harmless
   choice of a free being?
   >
   > There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's
a
   case of self-harm.
   >
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
   References
   1.

[3]http://www.t-online.d

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

Dulcian is a great substitute for a baritone sax :)


Am 16.03.2018 um 21:09 schrieb guy_and_liz Smith:

This, perhaps:

Louis Armstrong - "There is two kinds of music, the good & the bad. I play the good 
kind."
--
Personally, I'm a purist to the extent that I play only Ren music on the lute 
or sackbut. I play modern music (symphonic band and jazz) on a modern trombone. 
Works for me, but one of these days I might try jazz with the sackbut. Some 
pieces might work nicely with a lutenist that can read a jazz chart, and maybe 
a shawm or dulcian or cornetto...

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Alain Veylit
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:28 PM
To: lute net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

Trick question: When Paul O'Dette plays an arrangement of a ragtime on lutes, 
it that early music or modern music?

I am reminded of a quote by a jazz player (whose name escapes me now):
there are only two kinds of music, the good one and the other one. Which one 
should we play on which instrument?
Whatever gets in the way of having fun with the music gets in the way of good 
music. Whether arthritis or prejudices (that could be defined as arthritis of 
the mind). Should playing the lute prevent us from having fun with the music?
It is illogical in this space-time continuum to insist that improvisation is a 
necessary skill for early music and refuse to play contemporary music, don't 
you think?
Given the fact that there was a large amount of bad music published in the 16th 
and 17th century, should not we be allowed to play bad contemporary music?
Just sticking to the label of this thread...



To get on or off this list see list information at
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C22289f8573924e7b70a508d58b76371a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636568262198475259=9hh71vqmFzKauAWGA6BtlQfUMgJ7FRN4YG0KiQie5B8%3D=0

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[jslute]

   Dear All,

I'd like to see a baroque lute arrangement of Frank Zappa's "Twenty
   Small Cigars." I'd play that.

   Jim Stimson

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Arto Wikla <wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Date: 3/16/18 6:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
   To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

   Hi dear lutenist friends
   I've played many unorthodox lute thingies to the YouTube, oftenmost
   very
   badly. ;-) Here are links to some of them:
   * Pietre Rotolanti: Dipingi nera quella porta:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuyf4uha8fs
   * Something very different: short teenage memory ... ;-)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej1cDDQYOX8=youtu.be
   *Sean Jib: Inflandia Hymn ;-)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFij8YnjqdU=youtu.be
   And I've done much more in this scene - and I will ... ;-)
   best, piece and love,
   Arto
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[spiffys84121]

   I will play any music on lutes, if it works for that lute. I believe in
   using the right tool for the job-- unlike guitarists and pianists who
   endeavor to build the whole house with just a hammer.

   My question-- do most lute players only specialize in one repertoire? I
   play any lute music from almost the entire history of the lute-- except
   medieval. Of course this requires multiple lutes, which I'm happy to
   collect and play. I go through phases, like sometimes all I want to do
   is play six course music; then all of a sudden baroque lute is all I
   care about in life. Right now I'm obsessed with the liuto attiorbato
   which I think is the most versatile of all lutes. If for some reason I
   had to have only one lute, it would be an attiorbato. One can play
   hundreds of years worth of music on it(in a pinch) I'm working on my
   version of 'Georga on my Mind' at present. My attiorbatos have a range
   of 5 octaves.

   Sterling

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Leonard Williams <arc...@verizon.net>
   Date: 3/16/18 3:00 PM (GMT-07:00)
   To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

  I, myself, was attracted to the lute, via recorders and other
   early
  instruments, because I like playing renaissance music.  What better
   way
  to enjoy it than on the instruments for which it was written?  If I
  were an instructor, I would probably be more inclined to teach
  guitarists to read lute-tabbed recercari than to play later music on
  the lute.
  Leonard
  -Original Message-
  From: Mathias.Roesel <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  Sent: Fri, Mar 16, 2018 2:28 pm
      Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
  Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they
  like best.
  Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this
   tiny
  community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for
   the
  lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing
   list
  community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're
  fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to
   add
  that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions
  about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I
   for
  one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes.
  Mathias
  __
  Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
  --- Original-Nachricht ---
  Von: Wayne
      Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
  Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr
  An: lute net
  One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we
   all,
  or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of
   our
  repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our
  romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or
   synth
  in some cases. If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela
   we
  can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth. So maybe we
   are
  overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a
  different instrument to play something modern. Especially when we
   need
  to be as loud as everyone else.
  Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the
   lute?
  Wayne
  > Begin forwarded message:
  >
  > From: WALSH STUART <[2][1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
  > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
  > Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
  >
  > If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is
   surely
  odder to only play a lute and only ever to play music that was
   composed
  centuries ago.
  >
  > Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person
   -
  who would only, ever, play centuries' old music (however gem-laden
   it
  may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the
   harmless
  choice of a free being?
  >
  > There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's
   a
  case of self-harm.
  >
  --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [3][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
  References
  1.

   [3]http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_foot
  er.htm
  2. [4]mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
  3. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
  2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  3.
   http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.
   htm
  4. mailt

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Arto Wikla]

Hi dear lutenist friends

I've played many unorthodox lute thingies to the YouTube, oftenmost very 
badly. ;-) Here are links to some of them:


* Pietre Rotolanti: Dipingi nera quella porta:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuyf4uha8fs
* Something very different: short teenage memory ... ;-)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej1cDDQYOX8=youtu.be
*Sean Jib: Inflandia Hymn ;-)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFij8YnjqdU=youtu.be

And I've done much more in this scene - and I will ... ;-)

best, piece and love,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Alain Veylit]

Good quote from a great movie, Christopher!

A lutenist walks into a bar down South and gets plenty of empty beer 
bottles thrown at him... They did not like his modernist bend on the 
passomezzo



On 03/16/2018 01:51 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote:

Actually, I think the quote is:

"We got both kinds [of music]: Country AND Western" - the bartender in
The Blues Brothers. ;-)

Speaking personally, I see myself as an artist first, a musician second
and an instrumentalist (on various instruments including lute) third.
There's a Composer and improviser in the mix somewhere as well. I'm
happy to play any kind of music on any instrument. On the lute, I do my
best not to let my knowledge of HIP get in the way of making music.
That's a challenge sometimes!

Chris

[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, March 16, 2018, 4:11 PM, guy_and_liz Smith
<guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote:

This, perhaps:

Louis Armstrong - "There is two kinds of music, the good & the bad. I
play the good kind."

--

Personally, I'm a purist to the extent that I play only Ren music on
the lute or sackbut. I play modern music (symphonic band and jazz) on a
modern trombone. Works for me, but one of these days I might try jazz
with the sackbut. Some pieces might work nicely with a lutenist that
can read a jazz chart, and maybe a shawm or dulcian or cornetto...

Guy

-Original Message-

From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Alain Veylit

Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:28 PM

    To: lute net

Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

Trick question: When Paul O'Dette plays an arrangement of a ragtime on
lutes, it that early music or modern music?

I am reminded of a quote by a jazz player (whose name escapes me now):

there are only two kinds of music, the good one and the other one.
Which one should we play on which instrument?

Whatever gets in the way of having fun with the music gets in the way
of good music. Whether arthritis or prejudices (that could be defined
as arthritis of the mind). Should playing the lute prevent us from
having fun with the music?

It is illogical in this space-time continuum to insist that
improvisation is a necessary skill for early music and refuse to play
contemporary music, don't you think?

Given the fact that there was a large amount of bad music published in
the 16th and 17th century, should not we be allowed to play bad
contemporary music?

Just sticking to the label of this thread...

To get on or off this list see list information at

[4]https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.c
s.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C2228
9f8573924e7b70a508d58b76371a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0
%7C636568262198475259=9hh71vqmFzKauAWGA6BtlQfUMgJ7FRN4YG0KiQie5B8
%3D=0

--

References

1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. 
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html=02|01||22289f8573924e7b70a508d58b76371a|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636568262198475259=9hh71vqmFzKauAWGA6BtlQfUMgJ7FRN4YG0KiQie5B8==0

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Leonard Williams]

   I, myself, was attracted to the lute, via recorders and other early
   instruments, because I like playing renaissance music.  What better way
   to enjoy it than on the instruments for which it was written?  If I
   were an instructor, I would probably be more inclined to teach
   guitarists to read lute-tabbed recercari than to play later music on
   the lute.

   Leonard
   -Original Message-
   From: Mathias.Roesel <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Fri, Mar 16, 2018 2:28 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they
   like best.
   Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this tiny
   community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for the
   lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing list
   community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're
   fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to add
   that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions
   about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I for
   one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes.
   Mathias
   __
   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Wayne
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr
   An: lute net
   One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all,
   or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our
   repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our
   romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth
   in some cases. If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we
   can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth. So maybe we are
   overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a
   different instrument to play something modern. Especially when we need
   to be as loud as everyone else.
   Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?
   Wayne
   > Begin forwarded message:
   >
   > From: WALSH STUART <[2][1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   > Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
   >
   > If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely
   odder to only play a lute and only ever to play music that was composed
   centuries ago.
   >
   > Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person -
   who would only, ever, play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it
   may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless
   choice of a free being?
   >
   > There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a
   case of self-harm.
   >
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
   References
   1.
   [3]http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_foot
   er.htm
   2. [4]mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   3. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   3. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm
   4. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com?
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Christopher Wilke]

   Actually, I think the quote is:

   "We got both kinds [of music]: Country AND Western" - the bartender in
   The Blues Brothers. ;-)

   Speaking personally, I see myself as an artist first, a musician second
   and an instrumentalist (on various instruments including lute) third.
   There's a Composer and improviser in the mix somewhere as well. I'm
   happy to play any kind of music on any instrument. On the lute, I do my
   best not to let my knowledge of HIP get in the way of making music.
   That's a challenge sometimes!

   Chris

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Friday, March 16, 2018, 4:11 PM, guy_and_liz Smith
   <guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote:

   This, perhaps:

   Louis Armstrong - "There is two kinds of music, the good & the bad. I
   play the good kind."

   --

   Personally, I'm a purist to the extent that I play only Ren music on
   the lute or sackbut. I play modern music (symphonic band and jazz) on a
   modern trombone. Works for me, but one of these days I might try jazz
   with the sackbut. Some pieces might work nicely with a lutenist that
   can read a jazz chart, and maybe a shawm or dulcian or cornetto...

   Guy

   -Original Message-

   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Alain Veylit

   Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:28 PM

   To: lute net

   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

   Trick question: When Paul O'Dette plays an arrangement of a ragtime on
   lutes, it that early music or modern music?

   I am reminded of a quote by a jazz player (whose name escapes me now):

   there are only two kinds of music, the good one and the other one.
   Which one should we play on which instrument?

   Whatever gets in the way of having fun with the music gets in the way
   of good music. Whether arthritis or prejudices (that could be defined
   as arthritis of the mind). Should playing the lute prevent us from
   having fun with the music?

   It is illogical in this space-time continuum to insist that
   improvisation is a necessary skill for early music and refuse to play
   contemporary music, don't you think?

   Given the fact that there was a large amount of bad music published in
   the 16th and 17th century, should not we be allowed to play bad
   contemporary music?

   Just sticking to the label of this thread...

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [4]https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.c
   s.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C2228
   9f8573924e7b70a508d58b76371a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0
   %7C636568262198475259=9hh71vqmFzKauAWGA6BtlQfUMgJ7FRN4YG0KiQie5B8
   %3D=0

   --

References

   1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. 
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html=02|01||22289f8573924e7b70a508d58b76371a|84df9e7fe9f640afb435|1|0|636568262198475259=9hh71vqmFzKauAWGA6BtlQfUMgJ7FRN4YG0KiQie5B8==0

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[guy_and_liz Smith]

This, perhaps:

Louis Armstrong - "There is two kinds of music, the good & the bad. I play the 
good kind."
--
Personally, I'm a purist to the extent that I play only Ren music on the lute 
or sackbut. I play modern music (symphonic band and jazz) on a modern trombone. 
Works for me, but one of these days I might try jazz with the sackbut. Some 
pieces might work nicely with a lutenist that can read a jazz chart, and maybe 
a shawm or dulcian or cornetto...

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Alain Veylit
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:28 PM
To: lute net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

Trick question: When Paul O'Dette plays an arrangement of a ragtime on lutes, 
it that early music or modern music?

I am reminded of a quote by a jazz player (whose name escapes me now): 
there are only two kinds of music, the good one and the other one. Which one 
should we play on which instrument?
Whatever gets in the way of having fun with the music gets in the way of good 
music. Whether arthritis or prejudices (that could be defined as arthritis of 
the mind). Should playing the lute prevent us from having fun with the music?
It is illogical in this space-time continuum to insist that improvisation is a 
necessary skill for early music and refuse to play contemporary music, don't 
you think?
Given the fact that there was a large amount of bad music published in the 16th 
and 17th century, should not we be allowed to play bad contemporary music?
Just sticking to the label of this thread...



To get on or off this list see list information at
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu%2F~wbc%2Flute-admin%2Findex.html=02%7C01%7C%7C22289f8573924e7b70a508d58b76371a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636568262198475259=9hh71vqmFzKauAWGA6BtlQfUMgJ7FRN4YG0KiQie5B8%3D=0

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[John Mardinly]

   Beautiful! Thank you.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Mar 16, 2018, at 12:36 PM, Daniel Shoskes
   <[1]kidneykut...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Since you asked: [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3kCnbnSnc

   On Mar 16, 2018, at 2:09 PM, John Mardinly <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   wrote:

   So does anyone play contemporary music on the vihuela?
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

 On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:01 AM, Wayne <[4]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 wrote:
 One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we
 all, or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part
 of our repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar,
 or our romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone
 or synth in some cases.   If we can choose to play Spanish music on
 our vihuela we can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube)
 synth.  So maybe we are overlooking contemporary lute music because
 we tend to pick up a different instrument to play something modern.
  Especially when we need to be as loud as everyone else.
 Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the
 lute?
 Wayne

 Begin forwarded message:
 From: WALSH STUART <[5]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
 Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
 If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely
 odder to only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was
 composed centuries ago.
 Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person -
 who would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden
 it may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the
 harmless choice of a free being?
 There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a
 case of self-harm.

 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1
 k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=

   --

References

   1. mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DSZ3kCnbnSnc=DwMFAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=G0aY8fpNvhqk0wxOAagta3snWiONg5Ej7PqXLi_P9lQ=2R_e36lkcrq4rSiEO0E-egWNQMMEig0FngYKxMtBVVg=
   3. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   4. mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Alain Veylit]

Trick question: When Paul O'Dette plays an arrangement of a ragtime on 
lutes, it that early music or modern music?


I am reminded of a quote by a jazz player (whose name escapes me now): 
there are only two kinds of music, the good one and the other one. Which 
one should we play on which instrument?
Whatever gets in the way of having fun with the music gets in the way of 
good music. Whether arthritis or prejudices (that could be defined as 
arthritis of the mind). Should playing the lute prevent us from having 
fun with the music?
It is illogical in this space-time continuum to insist that 
improvisation is a necessary skill for early music and refuse to play 
contemporary music, don't you think?
Given the fact that there was a large amount of bad music published in 
the 16th and 17th century, should not we be allowed to play bad 
contemporary music?

Just sticking to the label of this thread...



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Valery SAUVAGE]

   > > "So does anyone play contemporary music on the vihuela?"


   So do I (and on the lute too)

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA7ZWqvHtfA

   (and I compose too but on the ukulele)

   V.





 > Message du 16/03/18 20:38
 > De : "Daniel Shoskes" <kidneykut...@gmail.com>
 > A : "John Mardinly" <john.mardi...@asu.edu>
 > Copie à : "Lute List" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Some questions
 >
 > Since you asked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3kCnbnSnc
 >
 >
 > > On Mar 16, 2018, at 2:09 PM, John Mardinly
 <john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
 > >
 > > So does anyone play contemporary music on the vihuela?
 > >
 > > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 > > The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
 > > Francisco Goya
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >> On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:01 AM, Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 <mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>> wrote:
 > >>
 > >> One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices -
 we all, or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain
 part of our repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical
 guitar, or our romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even
 saxophone or synth in some cases. If we can choose to play Spanish
 music on our vihuela we can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue
 tube) synth. So maybe we are overlooking contemporary lute music
 because we tend to pick up a different instrument to play something
 modern. Especially when we need to be as loud as everyone else.
 > >>
 > >> Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the
 lute?
 > >>
 > >> Wayne
 > >>
 > >>
 > >>> Begin forwarded message:
 > >>>
 > >>> From: WALSH STUART <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
 > >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
 > >>> Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
 > >>>
 > >>> If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is
 surely odder to only play a lute and only ever to play music that
 was composed centuries ago.
 > >>>
 > >>> Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a
 person - who would only, ever, play centuries' old music (however
 gem-laden it may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice
 was the harmless choice of a free being?
 > >>>
 > >>> There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps
 it's a case of self-harm.
 > >>>
 > >>
 > >> --
 > >>
 > >> To get on or off this list see list information at
 > >>
 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
 .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
 R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
 =Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5X
 KJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=
 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
 h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9v
 YR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90
 E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5
 XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=>
 >
 > --
 >

   --

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Daniel Shoskes]

Since you asked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3kCnbnSnc


> On Mar 16, 2018, at 2:09 PM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> 
> So does anyone play contemporary music on the vihuela?
> 
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
> Francisco Goya
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:01 AM, Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu 
>> <mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all, or 
>> most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our 
>> repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our 
>> romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth in 
>> some cases.   If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we can 
>> choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth.  So maybe we are 
>> overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a different 
>> instrument to play something modern.  Especially when we need to be as loud 
>> as everyone else.
>> 
>> Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?
>> 
>> Wayne
>> 
>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>> From: WALSH STUART <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>>> Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
>>> 
>>> If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely odder 
>>> to only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was composed 
>>> centuries ago.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person - who 
>>> would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it may be) 
>>> - would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless choice of a 
>>> free being?
>>> 
>>> There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a case 
>>> of self-harm.
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=
>>  
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=>

--

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Stephan Olbertz]

I agree, however I surprised myself recently when I felll in love with Dosia
McKay's Parting for baroque lute.
Stephan

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
von mathias.roe...@t-online.de
Gesendet: Freitag, 16. März 2018 19:29
An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

   Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they
   like best.
   Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this tiny
   community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for the
   lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing list
   community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're
   fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to add
   that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions
   about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I for
   one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes.
   Mathias
 __

   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Wayne
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr
   An: lute net

   One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all,
   or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our
   repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our
   romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth
   in some cases. If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we
   can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth. So maybe we are
   overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a
   different instrument to play something modern. Especially when we need
   to be as loud as everyone else.
   Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?
   Wayne
   > Begin forwarded message:
   >
   > From: WALSH STUART <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   > Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
   >
   > If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely
   odder to only play a lute and only ever to play music that was composed
   centuries ago.
   >
   > Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person -
   who would only, ever, play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it
   may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless
   choice of a free being?
   >
   > There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a
   case of self-harm.
   >
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1.
http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm
   2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[mathias.roe...@t-online.de]

   Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they
   like best.
   Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this tiny
   community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for the
   lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing list
   community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're
   fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to add
   that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions
   about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I for
   one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes.
   Mathias
 __

   Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
   --- Original-Nachricht ---
   Von: Wayne
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr
   An: lute net

   One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all,
   or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our
   repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our
   romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth
   in some cases. If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we
   can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth. So maybe we are
   overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a
   different instrument to play something modern. Especially when we need
   to be as loud as everyone else.
   Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?
   Wayne
   > Begin forwarded message:
   >
   > From: WALSH STUART <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   > Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
   >
   > If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely
   odder to only play a lute and only ever to play music that was composed
   centuries ago.
   >
   > Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person -
   who would only, ever, play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it
   may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless
   choice of a free being?
   >
   > There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a
   case of self-harm.
   >
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm
   2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[John Mardinly]

So does anyone play contemporary music on the vihuela?

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya



> On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:01 AM, Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
> One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all, or 
> most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our 
> repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our romantic 
> guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth in some cases.  
>  If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we can choose to play 
> Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth.  So maybe we are overlooking 
> contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a different instrument to 
> play something modern.  Especially when we need to be as loud as everyone 
> else.
> 
> Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?
> 
>  Wayne
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: WALSH STUART <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>> Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
>> 
>> If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely odder to 
>> only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was composed centuries 
>> ago.
>> 
>> Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person - who 
>> would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it may be) - 
>> would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless choice of a free 
>> being?
>> 
>> There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a case of 
>> self-harm.
>> 
> 
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Mark Seifert]

   Dear Wayne,
   Due to a desire to play Loud lute music, I bought a 7-steel string
   electric guitar and another 8-steel string electric guitar partly
   because they were so dirt cheap compared to lutes, which are simply not
   available at the local Guitar Center.   After I learned they
   sell guitars on consignment, including my cheap 7-string, I asked if I
   could sell some lutes on consignment.  They said NO.  I haven't played
   these two guitars much because they are H e a v y! and because the
   strings hurt my gnarled fingers, and so on.
   Best wishes,
   Mark
   On Friday, March 16, 2018 10:04 AM, Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   wrote:
   One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all,
   or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our
   repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our
   romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth
   in some cases.  If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela
   we can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth.  So maybe we
   are overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a
   different instrument to play something modern.  Especially when we need
   to be as loud as everyone else.
   Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?
 Wayne
   > Begin forwarded message:
   >
   > From: WALSH STUART <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   > Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
   >
   > If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely
   odder to only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was
   composed centuries ago.
   >
   > Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person -
   who would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it
   may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless
   choice of a free being?
   >
   > There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a
   case of self-harm.
   >
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Wayne]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all, or most 
of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our repertoire on 
our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our romantic guitar, or our 
bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth in some cases.   If we can 
choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we can choose to play Babbit on our 
(analogue tube) synth.  So maybe we are overlooking contemporary lute music 
because we tend to pick up a different instrument to play something modern.  
Especially when we need to be as loud as everyone else.

Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?

  Wayne


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: WALSH STUART <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
> Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
> 
> If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely odder to 
> only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was composed centuries ago.
> 
> Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person - who 
> would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it may be) - 
> would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless choice of a free 
> being?
> 
> There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a case of 
> self-harm.
> 

--

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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Dan Winheld]

On 3/16/2018 9:26 AM, WALSH STUART wrote:
If there were such a person - who would only, ever,  play centuries' 
old music would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless 
choice of a free being? 


Yes indeed. It would be quite enough! Most of my students over the years 
have been just such people. I have also, for years at a stretch, also 
played only old lute music on my aging lutes.
As far as I know at this time it still considered a "harmless choice of 
a free being". So far there have occurred no arrests, indictments, 
censures, citations, boycotts; or any other civil, legal, or criminal 
repercussions due to such proclivities. Of course, Bob Mueller is not 
yet finished with his extensive investigations so this is not written in 
stone.
"And flies away, and flies away from aged things" -Apologies to Robert 
Johnson. :-)




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[WALSH STUART]

If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely 
odder to only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was composed 
centuries ago.


Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person - who 
would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it may 
be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless choice 
of a free being?


There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a 
case of self-harm.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Dear Jurgen,
   A 1986 (modern?) paraphrase of a Wolf song for 13 course Dm lute is
   found on the Lute Society site.
   Look under Lute Society free downloads. Cut and paste these into your
   browser
   [1]http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/free-downloads
   [2]http://www.lutesociety.org/vanilla/lutesoc/uploads/members-compositi
   ons/martyn-hodgson/Paraphrase%20on%20Wolf%20Dm%20lute.pdf
   MH
 __

   From: Jurgen Frenz <eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com>
   To: Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
   Cc: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 16 March 2018, 8:23
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   There are many great songs by Hugo Wolf - the piano score would need to
   be reduced in ambitus to fit in the range of any lute.
   Johann Kaspar Mertz is the only "real" guitar composer of the romantic
   period AND often (not all of it)  is fairly hard to play. What is even
   more interesting about Mertz is that all of his work is online on the
   Swedish academy of music and drama.
   â\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-
   "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
   JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumiâ
   âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
   On 16 March 2018 7:22 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
   > ââ
   >
   > Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on
   >
   > the lute :)
   >
   > I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.
   >
   > Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute,
   >
   > though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.
   >
   > [4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
   >
   > This song deserves a lute version:
   >
   > [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
   >
   > Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
   >
   > > I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of
   a
   > >
   > > post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but
   > >
   > > perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille
   aux
   > >
   > > cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my
   own
   > >
   > > transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few
   more
   > >
   > > worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...
   > >
   > > "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to
   contemporary
   > >
   > > lute music and related topics ?"
   > >
   > > Dan
   > >
   > > On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, [6]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
   > >
   > > > That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
   > > >
   > > > RT
   > > >
   > > > Sent from my iPhone
   > > >
   > > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron
   [7]andricopraelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
   > > > >
   > > > > The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.
   > > > >
   > > > > RA
   > > >
   > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > > >
   > > > [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/free-downloads
   2. 
http://www.lutesociety.org/vanilla/lutesoc/uploads/members-compositions/martyn-hodgson/Paraphrase
 on Wolf Dm lute.pdf
   3. file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
   4. file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
   5. file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
   6. file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
   7. file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html
   8. file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L25121-233TMP.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Albert Reyerman]

the publication is

4 pieces fo archlute
by Claude Debussy and Erik Satie
arranged and intabulated by
Jonathan Rubin

available from TREE  EDITION
in their
tree today series
of contemporary lute music

TREE  EDITION
Albert Reyerman
Finkenberg 89
23558 Luebeck
Germany

albertreyer...@kabelmail.de
www.tree-edition.com
0451 899 78 48
---
Fine Art Paintings
Anke Reyerman
www.anke-reyerman.de

Am 16.03.2018 um 02:24 schrieb Dan Winheld:
The publication that has the Debussy does, in fact, have a couple of 
Satie's Gymnopedes..
I'll post the details if I can find it.  Apparently some of this work 
has already been going on, if a bit under the radar.

Dan

On 3/15/2018 5:22 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on 
the lute :)


I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.

Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute, 
though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI

This song deserves a lute version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18




Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of 
a post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but 
perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille aux 
cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my 
own transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few 
more worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...


  "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to contemporary
    lute music and related topics ?"

Dan

On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
RT

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron Andrico  
wrote:


   The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.

   RA



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html











.

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Jurgen Frenz]

There are many great songs by Hugo Wolf - the piano score would need to be 
reduced in ambitus to fit in the range of any lute.

Johann Kaspar Mertz is the only "real" guitar composer of the romantic period 
AND often (not all of it)  is fairly hard to play. What is even more 
interesting about Mertz is that all of his work is online on the Swedish 
academy of music and drama.

​\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-\-

“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 16 March 2018 7:22 AM, Tristan von Neumann  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on
> 
> the lute :)
> 
> I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.
> 
> Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute,
> 
> though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
> 
> This song deserves a lute version:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
> 
> Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
> 
> > I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of a
> > 
> > post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but
> > 
> > perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille aux
> > 
> > cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my own
> > 
> > transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few more
> > 
> > worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...
> > 
> > "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to contemporary
> > 
> > lute music and related topics ?"
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
> > > 
> > > RT
> > > 
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > 
> > > > On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron andricopraelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.
> > > > 
> > > > RA
> > > 
> > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > 
> > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Gilbert Isbin]

   Satie arranged for the lute by G. Isbin
   Gnossienne 1, 2 and 3, Elegie, Marche de Cocagne
   [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l1HziUDIIM=PLoNMcNOgUKFkmXdv7V
   tYvR25wKBfmBOdg
   3 Nick Drake Songs arranged for the lute by G. Isbin
   [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_0nIQ63JJw

   With kind regards,

   Met vriendelijke groeten,

   Bien cordialement,
   Gilbert Isbin
   [3]www.gilbertisbin.com
   [4]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2018-03-16 3:22 GMT+01:00 Dan Winheld <[5]dwinh...@lmi.net>:

 "Claude Debussy & Erik Satie - 4 Pieces for Lute"
 Arranged and Intabulated by Jonathan Rubin
 Tree-Edition, Munchen - Tablature Copied by Albert Reymann
 Copyright 1986

   On 3/15/2018 6:24 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:

 The publication that has the Debussy does, in fact, have a couple of
 Satie's Gymnopedes..
 I'll post the details if I can find it.   Apparently some of this
 work has already been going on, if a bit under the radar.
 Dan
 On 3/15/2018 5:22 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

 Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play
 on the lute :)
 I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.
 Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute,
 though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.
 [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
 This song deserves a lute version:
 [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
 Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:

 I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of
 a post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but
 perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille aux
 cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my
 own transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few
 more worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...
   "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to
 contemporary
   lute music and related topics ?"
 Dan
 On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, [8]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

 That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
 RT
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron Andrico<[9]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
 The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.
 RA

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l1HziUDIIM=PLoNMcNOgUKFkmXdv7VtYvR25wKBfmBOdg
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_0nIQ63JJw
   3. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   4. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   5. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
   7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
   8. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   9. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[David van Ooijen]

   Has been done. There's a cd with satie on lute.
   David
   On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 at 03:24, Dan Winheld <[1]dwinh...@lmi.net> wrote:

 "Claude Debussy & Erik Satie - 4 Pieces for Lute"
 Arranged and Intabulated by Jonathan Rubin
 Tree-Edition, Munchen - Tablature Copied by Albert Reymann
 Copyright 1986
 On 3/15/2018 6:24 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:
 > The publication that has the Debussy does, in fact, have a couple
 of
 > Satie's Gymnopedes..
 > I'll post the details if I can find it.   Apparently some of this
 work
 > has already been going on, if a bit under the radar.
 > Dan
 >
 > On 3/15/2018 5:22 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
 >> Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to
 play on
 >> the lute :)
 >>
 >> I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the
 lute.
 >>
 >> Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque
 lute,
 >> though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.
 >> [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
 >>
 >> This song deserves a lute version:
 >> [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
 >>> I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription
 of
 >>> a post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff,
 but
 >>> perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille
 aux
 >>> cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made
 my
 >>> own transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a
 few
 >>> more worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and
 then...
 >>>
 >>>   "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to
 contemporary
 >>>   lute music and related topics ?"
 >>>
 >>> Dan
 >>>
 >>> On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, [4]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
  That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
  RT
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
 > On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron
 Andrico<[5]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 > wrote:
 >
 > The very idea of not composing for the lute is an
 anachronism.
 >
 > RA
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >
 >
 >

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [8]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18
   4. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   5. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   8. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Dan Winheld]

"Claude Debussy & Erik Satie - 4 Pieces for Lute"
Arranged and Intabulated by Jonathan Rubin
Tree-Edition, Munchen - Tablature Copied by Albert Reymann
Copyright 1986


On 3/15/2018 6:24 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:
The publication that has the Debussy does, in fact, have a couple of 
Satie's Gymnopedes..
I'll post the details if I can find it.  Apparently some of this work 
has already been going on, if a bit under the radar.

Dan

On 3/15/2018 5:22 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on 
the lute :)


I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.

Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute, 
though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI

This song deserves a lute version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18




Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of 
a post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but 
perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille aux 
cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my 
own transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few 
more worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...


  "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to contemporary
    lute music and related topics ?"

Dan

On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
RT

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron Andrico  
wrote:


   The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.

   RA



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Dan Winheld]

The publication that has the Debussy does, in fact, have a couple of 
Satie's Gymnopedes..
I'll post the details if I can find it.  Apparently some of this work 
has already been going on, if a bit under the radar.

Dan

On 3/15/2018 5:22 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on 
the lute :)


I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.

Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute, 
though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI

This song deserves a lute version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18




Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of a 
post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but 
perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille aux 
cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my 
own transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few 
more worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...


  "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to contemporary
    lute music and related topics ?"

Dan

On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
RT

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron Andrico  
wrote:


   The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.

   RA



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

Let's collect some ideas what late 19th/20th century music to play on 
the lute :)


I suppose many pieces of Erik Satie would sound great on the lute.

Ravel's "La Vallée des Cloches" is probably nice for Baroque lute, 
though you would need an expert to transcribe this adequately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnTmtjO6IKI

This song deserves a lute version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6UCcIvE18




Am 16.03.2018 um 00:07 schrieb Dan Winheld:
I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of a 
post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but 
perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "Lafille aux 
cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my own 
transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few more 
worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...


  "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to contemporary
lute music and related topics ?"

Dan

On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
RT

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

   The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.

   RA



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[howard posner]

Just to be clear, in case anyone has forgotten, the remarks Roman is addressing 
are Matthew’s, not mine.  I was quoting Matthew.

> On Mar 15, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> and what are the exceptions, in your opinion?
> RT
> 
>>On 15/03/2018 00:16, howard posner wrote:
>> 
>>  Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
>>   incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of the
>>   great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Roman Turovsky]

and what are the exceptions, in your opinion?
RT




On 15/03/2018 00:16, howard posner wrote:

  Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
   incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of the
   great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Dan Winheld]

   I TOTALLY support that- also, maybe the occasional transcription of a
   post-l historical lute era piece? Obviously some guitar stuff, but
   perhaps others. I have an archlute version of Debussy's "La fille aux
   cheveux de lin" made years ago, I forget which lutenist. I made my own
   transcription of Piazzolla's "Triston". I'm sure there are a few more
   worthy things that could fit on a page or two, now and then...
 "Lutemags devote 1 page or half a page in their issue to contemporary
   lute music and related topics ?"

   Dan
   On 3/15/2018 3:38 PM, [1]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
RT

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron Andrico [2] wrote:

  The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.

  RA



To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


   --

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[r . turovsky]

That has been my argument for the last 20 years.
RT

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 15, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>   The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.
> 
>   RA



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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

Thanks Ron!

:)

This is a great motivation to actually try some composition.

I improvise sometimes and have done so on any instruments I played, 
because it is fun, and you learn something new every time.


This is something one forgets too: Musicians of the 16th century are 
trained to come up with 2 hours of music from their sleeves.
So as long as lute meetings don't involve a massive jam session over 
passamezzi, chansons etc., it's probably not a historically informed 
meeting :)


"Playing new music" would therefore also mean to drag your lute to a 
jazz session or some other free music session with room for impro.



Am 15.03.2018 um 18:38 schrieb Ron Andrico:

Tristan, you provided some very insightful answers to Gilbert's
thought-provoking questions.  I've written a slightly different flavor
of both questions and answers about new music for the lute on Unquiet
Thoughts, but it's refreshing to see the topic revived.

I'd like to draw particular attention to your pointing out that
narcissism motivates the many reactions that deride new music by those
who appear to enjoy "shooting from the lip" on just about any
lute-related topic. Spot on. Without passing judgement, it seems that
there are lute hobbyists, and there are musicians who play the lute.
The former are occupy themselves with the many interesting historical
aspects of the instrument, and the latter use that information to make
music.

For those who like to think their approach to the lute is the purest,
most historically informed, I'll point out a few of the more obvious
anachronisms:  Playing in comfortably heated or cooled rooms, playing
with electric lights, having a nice Kingham case, traveling by plane,
train or motorcar, having enormous libraries of tablatures, discussing
lutes on the internet, and last but not least, playing other people's
compositions.

In the 16th century, lutes, strings, and printed music were all
extremely costly and only wealthy amateurs could afford them.
Musicians who held positions that allowed them the luxury of the time
it takes to become proficient on the instrument were uniformly trained
as singers and then were apprenticed to a master who taught them the
rules of composition.  Lutes and strings were provided by their
employer.  Musicians who did not compose most likely did not hold
positions as professionals.  And they most likely did not play music
composed by others unless they were obliged to take part in a larger
ensemble performing masque music, etc.

The very idea of not composing for the lute is an anachronism.

RA
  __

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
of Tristan von Neumann <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 5:43 AM
    To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions

Here's my answers to your questions. I don't know if this is actually
true or not, but I feel that way.
Am 14.03.2018 um 22:33 schrieb Gilbert Isbin:
> Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
It's just that the music is SO good that it's hard to think of anything
else so much fun, intellectually joyful and pleasing just playing for
yourself.
New Music tends to either be spectralist or atonal. The former sounds
fascinating, but I have not yet heard any piece exploring that
direction. The latter just does not suit the naturally sympathetic
nature of the lute.
And then there is retro-new music which is nice, but just shows love
for
Early Music.
> Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for
the
> lute ?
New Music needs a completely new technique. Most lutists are good
amateurs, and the few pros are struggling to make a living doing Early
Music. There is hardly time to practice considering the meager
out/income for playing New Music.
New Music appeals to an even smaller audience than Early Music.
> Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud
players
> etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world
almost
> - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?
There are more of those around, so the number of crazy people doing
that
is higher in absolute numbers. The percentage is still very low. Most
play Classical, Romantic, and Early Music.
> Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?
If it's applying 16th century/Baroque techniques, it's probably also
very similar to the "Real McCoy". If it isn't, it's probably very hard
to play.
> Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very
specific
> approach ?
This only applies to Early Music, w

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Matthew Daillie]

On 15/03/2018 18:38, Ron Andrico wrote:

I'd like to draw particular attention to your pointing out that
narcissism motivates the many reactions that deride new music by those
who appear to enjoy "shooting from the lip" on just about any
lute-related topic. Spot on. Without passing judgement, it seems that
there are lute hobbyists, and there are musicians who play the lute.
The former are occupy themselves with the many interesting historical
aspects of the instrument, and the latter use that information to make
music.


I am sure that the lute world is waiting with bated breath to learn 
which group you might be in, Ron.


Best,

Matthew



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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[John Mardinly]

   It's not fear, it's taste. People play music that appeals to them.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:16 PM, howard posner <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   wrote:

 On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:02 PM, Matthew Daillie
 <[2]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
 Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
  incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of
 the
  great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period

   Wow! You must have heard some of my stuff.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIDAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=KwS
   2jm7a8iv47DGTgbOAg07TXw4Eaa7fUeSXuJAli1U=OgK2QcSqCEBC3P-EsBS9VPjUyuVV
   YeyoZ2eMqeZiP2g=

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIDAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=KwS2jm7a8iv47DGTgbOAg07TXw4Eaa7fUeSXuJAli1U=OgK2QcSqCEBC3P-EsBS9VPjUyuVVYeyoZ2eMqeZiP2g=

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Arthur Ness]

   Dear Silvia,

   I cannot find any references to your thesis.  Is it finished?  For the
   doctorate or masters? Could you provide a title and bibliographical
   information?  Many thanks.

   Arthur Ness
   arthurjn...@verizon.net

   -Original Message-
   From: Silvia Amato <amato.sil...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   To: Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
   Cc: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>; LS LUTELIST
   <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Thu, Mar 15, 2018 7:53 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   Actually we do have some of them and this is one of the topics that I
   have dealt with in my thesis (modern and contemporary Lute music), it's
   a very interesting research that goes on, looking for new aspects still
   to be dealt with
   Best regards to all
   Silvia
   Inviato da iPhone
   > Il giorno 15 mar 2018, alle ore 12:13, Matthew Daillie
   <dail...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto:
   >
   >> On 15/03/2018 01:45, Ron Andrico wrote:
   >> I don't usually bother to respond to your sniping noises,
   >>
   >> There is no stature to be gained by treating the work of others with
   >> disdain while claiming a morally superior position
   >
   > Goodness Ron , those are comments that could definitely have granted
   you a valuable source of introspection. The art of projection never
   ceases to amaze me.
   >
   > Gilbert Isbin's email was quite belligerent in its questioning. My
   post was a straightforward answer. I have nothing against lute players
   composing and performing their own music, I just don't wish to be
   aggressively interrogated as to why I'm not buying or playing it.
   >
   > I never said that I prefer 'old music', just that I don't see much
   'new' lute music out there to compete with the production of the great
   masters. We seem to be forgetting that the lute was THE instrument of
   its age and that many of the works which have come down to us are the
   acme of musical production.
   >
   > I cannot think of a major composer today who only writes for one
   instrument. If we look at 20th century music, very often the great
   instrumentalists commissioned works from contemporary distinguished
   composers. Maybe we need one of today's top lutenists to do the same,
   just as Julian Bream commissioned Benjamin Britten to write Nocturnal
   for guitar (based on Dowland's 'Come Heavy Sleep') over 50 years ago.
   The filter of time has not yet finished its job and we do not know what
   works will survive for prosperity but we can look back at the 20th
   century and find an endless list of great composers (Bartok, Berio,
   Britten, Crumb, Dutilleux, Gubaidulina, Kurtag, Ligeti, Messiaen,
   Prokofiev, Rihm, Shnittke, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, to name but a
   few). Maybe we need a composer of their ilk to write for the lute
   before there is a real renaissance of its music.
   >
   > Then there is the captivating experience of playing music which is
   500 years old and yet speaks to us directly with ineffable force and
   beauty. That fascination, in conjunction with the historical, artistic
   and musicological riches which accompany our music-making, are surely
   the main reasons why most of us took up the lute in the first place.
   >
   > Best,
   >
   > Matthew
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Matthew Daillie]

   On 15/03/2018 00:16, howard posner wrote:

 Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
  incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of the
  great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period

Wow! You must have heard some of my stuff.


   OK, maybe I did go a bit overboard, I didn't mean it to sound that bad!

   Best,

   Matthew
   --


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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Silvia Amato]

Actually we do have some of them and this is one of the topics that I have 
dealt with in my thesis (modern and contemporary Lute music), it's a very 
interesting research that goes on, looking for new aspects still to be dealt 
with 
Best regards to all 
Silvia
Inviato da iPhone

> Il giorno 15 mar 2018, alle ore 12:13, Matthew Daillie 
>  ha scritto:
> 
>> On 15/03/2018 01:45, Ron Andrico wrote:
>>  I don't usually bother to respond to your sniping noises,
>> 
>>There is no stature to be gained by treating the work of others with
>>disdain while claiming a morally superior position
> 
> Goodness Ron , those are comments that could definitely have granted you a 
> valuable source of introspection. The art of projection never ceases to amaze 
> me.
> 
> Gilbert Isbin's email was quite belligerent in its questioning. My post was a 
> straightforward answer. I have nothing against lute players composing and 
> performing their own music, I just don't wish to be aggressively interrogated 
> as to why I'm not buying or playing it.
> 
> I never said that I prefer 'old music', just that I don't see much 'new' lute 
> music out there to compete with the production of the great masters. We seem 
> to be forgetting that the lute was THE instrument of its age and that many of 
> the works which have come down to us are the acme of musical production.
> 
> I cannot think of a major composer today who only writes for one instrument. 
> If we look at 20th century music, very often the great instrumentalists 
> commissioned works from contemporary distinguished composers. Maybe we need 
> one of today's top lutenists to do the same, just as Julian Bream 
> commissioned Benjamin Britten to write Nocturnal for guitar (based on 
> Dowland's 'Come Heavy Sleep') over 50 years ago. The filter of time has not 
> yet finished its job and we do not know what works will survive for 
> prosperity but we can look back at the 20th century and find an endless list 
> of great composers (Bartok, Berio, Britten, Crumb, Dutilleux, Gubaidulina, 
> Kurtag, Ligeti, Messiaen, Prokofiev, Rihm, Shnittke, Shostakovich, 
> Stravinsky, to name but a few). Maybe we need a composer of their ilk to 
> write for the lute before there is a real renaissance of its music.
> 
> Then there is the captivating experience of playing music which is 500 years 
> old and yet speaks to us directly with ineffable force and beauty. That 
> fascination, in conjunction with the historical, artistic and musicological 
> riches which accompany our music-making, are surely the main reasons why most 
> of us took up the lute in the first place.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Matthew Daillie]

On 15/03/2018 01:45, Ron Andrico wrote:

  I don't usually bother to respond to your sniping noises,

There is no stature to be gained by treating the work of others with
disdain while claiming a morally superior position


Goodness Ron , those are comments that could definitely have granted you 
a valuable source of introspection. The art of projection never ceases 
to amaze me.


Gilbert Isbin's email was quite belligerent in its questioning. My post 
was a straightforward answer. I have nothing against lute players 
composing and performing their own music, I just don't wish to be 
aggressively interrogated as to why I'm not buying or playing it.


I never said that I prefer 'old music', just that I don't see much 'new' 
lute music out there to compete with the production of the great 
masters. We seem to be forgetting that the lute was THE instrument of 
its age and that many of the works which have come down to us are the 
acme of musical production.


I cannot think of a major composer today who only writes for one 
instrument. If we look at 20th century music, very often the great 
instrumentalists commissioned works from contemporary distinguished 
composers. Maybe we need one of today's top lutenists to do the same, 
just as Julian Bream commissioned Benjamin Britten to write Nocturnal 
for guitar (based on Dowland's 'Come Heavy Sleep') over 50 years ago. 
The filter of time has not yet finished its job and we do not know what 
works will survive for prosperity but we can look back at the 20th 
century and find an endless list of great composers (Bartok, Berio, 
Britten, Crumb, Dutilleux, Gubaidulina, Kurtag, Ligeti, Messiaen, 
Prokofiev, Rihm, Shnittke, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, to name but a few). 
Maybe we need a composer of their ilk to write for the lute before there 
is a real renaissance of its music.


Then there is the captivating experience of playing music which is 500 
years old and yet speaks to us directly with ineffable force and beauty. 
That fascination, in conjunction with the historical, artistic and 
musicological riches which accompany our music-making, are surely the 
main reasons why most of us took up the lute in the first place.


Best,

Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Alain Veylit]

I think this is not the first time this question is raised - back in the 
early 20th century there were several revivals of early music. We 
remember them because of the effect thy had on modern music: Ravel, 
Manuel Ponce, Respighi. But at the time, the question was to revive 
music from the past. This time, it is to revive an instrument.
I remain convinced that the early music revival movement of our times 
(since the 1970-80s) was a a product of new technology: facsimile 
publications and high quality recordings chiefly. The second one in 
particular allowed us to enjoy early music in a context similar to the 
one an audience may have heard it: the comfort of your room. Lute music 
gets lost in a mid-size concert hall. It is heaven on ear phones.
Meanwhile, bread and butter music is still  made in concert halls, and 
in spite of Sting's efforts, it just does not work for lute music: you 
have to amplify the instrument and in the process, you lose the quality 
of the sound. So we have a dichotomy: earning a living as a performer 
and composer takes a live audience at the concert hall (if not the local 
bar), and loses his quality de facto. Quality recording is done in the 
studio, but loses exposure to the public. In theory, YouTube resolves 
the problem - but no-one makes a living from YouTube except YouTube.
The mini series Versailles - I watched it recently - makes an attempt at 
playing period music - a De Visee theorbo piece - but it gets lost in 
both poor sound quality and in the action (the director did not have the 
same flair for music as Kubrik in Barry Lyndon, even though card games 
were also taking place) - So, my point is that the lute is a very 
difficult animal to sell, except in the confines of a very intimate 
style of recording/performing.
Second: if you want "serious" modern compositions, you need two things: 
a large pool of players and some ability for those players to make a 
decent living out of their own material. Both are lacking today. And we 
won't have a Ravel or Respighi because they revived music, not an 
instrument, which allowed them to fit the revival within their own 
modern environment: piano, orchestra, etc.
So we are stuck. Because, unless this music revival fails to transform 
modern music to some extent, it will die without an inheritance. Sting's 
efforts and failure (in my opinion) are tragic because they are on the 
right track. They don't fail because of him, but because of the 
instrument's limitations given the current environment.


This is no reason why a performing lutenist should not stick at least 
one of her fancies into the program in a small venue though, just for 
the fun of it. Because, who knows, that might catch the audience's 
attention, if only for one memorable (largely unpaid) minute.






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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Tristan von Neumann]

Here's my answers to your questions. I don't know if this is actually 
true or not, but I feel that way.


Am 14.03.2018 um 22:33 schrieb Gilbert Isbin:

Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?


It's just that the music is SO good that it's hard to think of anything 
else so much fun, intellectually joyful and pleasing just playing for 
yourself.
New Music tends to either be spectralist or atonal. The former sounds 
fascinating, but I have not yet heard any piece exploring that 
direction. The latter just does not suit the naturally sympathetic 
nature of the lute.
And then there is retro-new music which is nice, but just shows love for 
Early Music.




Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for the
lute ?


New Music needs a completely new technique. Most lutists are good 
amateurs, and the few pros are struggling to make a living doing Early 
Music. There is hardly time to practice considering the meager 
out/income for playing New Music.

New Music appeals to an even smaller audience than Early Music.


Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud players
etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world almost
- with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?


There are more of those around, so the number of crazy people doing that 
is higher in absolute numbers. The percentage is still very low. Most 
play Classical, Romantic, and Early Music.



Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?


If it's applying 16th century/Baroque techniques, it's probably also 
very similar to the "Real McCoy". If it isn't, it's probably very hard 
to play.



Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very specific
approach ?


This only applies to Early Music, where it makes sense.


Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
approaches?


Narcissism. Instead of feeling joy, there's joy in the ridicule of 
something. Since you can't ridicule someone for playing 16th century 
music without targeting your own playing, it is just convenient if 
someone leaves the usual paths.
Real musicians are interested in these paths., even if they don't want 
to try them on their own.



What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that dogmatic ?


It's not that Renaissance or Baroque music would suddenly change...


I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would have
a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the instrument.


John Dowland would probably still be touring through Europe - in big clubs.



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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Charles Moller]

   A number of years ago at the Sydney Conservatorium there was a
   performance called the Two Robert Johnsons, played on lute.

   Regards,
   Charles Moller
   From: Gilbert Isbin 
   To: LS LUTELIST 
   Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2018, 8:34
   Subject: [LUTE] Some questions
 Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
 Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for the
 lute ?
 Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud
   players
 etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world
   almost
 - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?
 Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?
 Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very specific
 approach ?
 Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
 do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
 approaches?
 What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that dogmatic
   ?
 I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would
   have
 a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the instrument.
 With kind regards,
 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Bien cordialement,
 Gilbert Isbin
 [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
 [2][1]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
 --
   References
 1. [2]http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
 2. mailto:[3]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   3. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[howard posner]

> On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:02 PM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:
> 
>  Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
>   incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of the
>   great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period

Wow! You must have heard some of my stuff.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Matthew Daillie]

   Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
   incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of the
   great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period (personally I
   feel there is so much historic repertory yet to discover that I am not
   at all interested in spending time on second-rate rehash) and secondly,
   the majority of composers writing for lute seem to be completely
   oblivious to all the developments in contemporary music which have led
   to some works of extraordinary beauty and sophistication for
   instruments and formations of all shapes and sizes, a million miles
   away from much of the insipid fodder being pushed our way.
   Best,
   Matthew
On 14/03/2018 22:33, Gilbert Isbin wrote:

Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
   Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for the
   lute ?
   Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud players
   etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world almost
   - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?
   Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?
   Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very specific
   approach ?
   Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
   do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
   approaches?
   What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that dogmatic ?
   I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would have
   a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the instrument.


   With kind regards,

   Met vriendelijke groeten,

   Bien cordialement,
   Gilbert Isbin
   [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
   [[1]2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com

   --

References

   1. mailto:2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com


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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Dan Winheld]

   Gilbert;
   I am in full agreement with David van Ooijen and  Joseph Mayes (his
   response copied & pasted below David's for continuity/clarity.
   You obviously do not know me- not your fault, of course, because unlike
   David- a most out-there & publicly active musician I am now pretty much
   retired & private.
   For your information, I own 5 lutes, one vihuela, a steel string and a
   nylon string guitar. In addition to the usual lute music I play the
   music of Astor Piazzolla, Leo Brouwer, and Heitor Villa-Lobos on my
   lutes. I've even done Tarrega's famous tremolo piece "Recuerdas de la
   Alhambra" on my 8 course- STRICTLY for practice/technical studies only.
   For Karmic Reversal purposes I use my Dean 7-string flat-top acoustic
   steel-string guitar exclusively as a fake "Orpharion" -only lute and
   vihuela music on that- it kicks ass!
   " Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
   do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
   approaches?"
   Again, for your info, I am fluent not only in "Thumb Under" in various
   sub-variations, I also play Thumb Out with no little finger support
   (late Renn, Baroque, etc. Not the 6 course!). I hear that some
   guitarists, mainly 20th & 21st century ones, also play this way.
   I once played the David Van Ronk version of the St. Louis Tickle on
   Renaissance lute, (Thumb under) at an early LSA lute seminar way back
   in the late 1970's.
   I think you can relax now. Much, much worse things to worry about..:-)
   Dan

   On 3/14/2018 2:56 PM, David van Ooijen wrote:

   Could part of the answer be that you see/hear/know a limited set of
   lute players, a set that tends to gather in this forum, and don't
   see/hear the more broadly minded lute players in this world? Or perhaps
   does this forum tend to talk mostly about hipp lute playing, even
   though many of its members are more broadly oriented? I
   meet/see/talk/know many lute players who play a lot of other music
   besides the canon composed by our beloved and revered Old Ones. I don't
   think playing one kind of music excludes playing another kind of music,
   and I see many colleagues, professional and amateur, although perhaps
   more amongst the first than among the latter, who share my point of
   view. I think the lute playing world exhibits a wide variety of music
   styles that happily coexist.
   I play pop, jazz, contemporary, folk and early music on any of my
   instruments, lutes included, and I know many of my professional
   colleagues who do the same in their concerts, CD recordings and
   privately. It's even a kind of a current fashion, a gimmick or selling
   point: cross-over programmes.
   David


Hello Mr. Isbin

I can only answer your questions from my own perspective - naturally. I have tri
ed to do so below:

From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2] on behalf of G
ilbert Isbin [3]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:33 PM
To: LS LUTELIST
Subject: [LUTE] Some questions

   Why is the lute world ruled by early music ? Because the lute is considered a
n "early instrument" most if not all of the players were attracted to the instru
ment through its music.
   Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for the
   lute ? This is a poorly stated question, as in, "Are you still on parole?" Ra
ther than ask why lutenists are "afraid" why not ask why they prefer music other
 than new music. For me, I like the style of the older music and despise the pre
tentiousness of some new music.
   Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud players
   etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world almost
   - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ? See above response.
   Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ? Have you stopped bea
ting your mother?
   Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very specific
   approach ? Why do contemporary composers think "pretty" is a pejorative?
   Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
   do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
   approaches? Again - poorly stated question. You ask why something that may or
 may not be true is true. Like my asking why all composers insist on writing for
 de-tuned mandolin?
  What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that dogmatic ? Good q
uestion.
   I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would have
   a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the instrument. If Dowla
nd et al heard new music I believe they would choose another line of work.

 On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 at 22:34, Gilbert Isbin
   [4]<[1]gilbert.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for
 the
lute ?
Why did 

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Mark Seifert]

   Dear Mr. Isbin,
   I admire your hard work and innovative approach.  Emphasis on
   improvisation is
   a great way to bring the lute back into the modern world.
   A major hurdle is that people seem to gravitate toward
   the familiar.  Kids nowadays seem to want their ears blasted
   out and emotional catharsis via heavy metal--maybe you can help change
   that.
   Sadly, lacking skills, I fear playing any and all music in public.  Too
   nervous.
   Regarding new music, I plead incompetence.  Music after 1770
   is beyond my technical reach, though I like hearing Copland, de Falla,
   Burmer, Holst,
   Debussy, Rimsky-Korsakoff, Borodin, anything that conjures pleasant
   emotions
   and wonder/mystery.  Music is not an intellectual exercise to me, which
   is partly
   why I can't be a professional musician.  Music provides an escape from
   the horrible
   reality of this world.
   I hate reading standard notation, preferring tablature
   always.  Incompetence again,
   or lack of time to pick through annoying accidentals.
   I don't like most 19th century composers, the standard fare
   of the Symphony, because their pieces are way too long!  Who has time
   nowadays to sit
   for hours listening to their ponderous monstrosities?  All I can handle
   is about
   two-three minutes per piece.
   Finally, as a pathologist, I like the "decomposing composers"
   memorialized by
   Monty Python.  "There is less of them every year.  You can say what you
   want
   to Debussy, but there isn't much of him left to hear."
   Hi regards,
   Mark Seifert M.D.
   On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 2:34 PM, Gilbert Isbin
    wrote:
 Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
 Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for the
 lute ?
 Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud
   players
 etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world
   almost
 - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?
 Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?
 Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very specific
 approach ?
 Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
 do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
 approaches?
 What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that dogmatic
   ?
 I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would
   have
 a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the instrument.
 With kind regards,
 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Bien cordialement,
 Gilbert Isbin
 [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
 [2][1]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
 --
   References
 1. [2]http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
 2. mailto:[3]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   3. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[r . turovsky]

Well said, Joe.
RT

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2018, at 5:54 PM, Mayes, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mr. Isbin
> 
> I can only answer your questions from my own perspective - naturally. I have 
> tried to do so below:
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of 
> Gilbert Isbin 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:33 PM
> To: LS LUTELIST
> Subject: [LUTE] Some questions
> 
>   Why is the lute world ruled by early music ? Because the lute is considered 
> an "early instrument" most if not all of the players were attracted to the 
> instrument through its music.
>   Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for the
>   lute ? This is a poorly stated question, as in, "Are you still on parole?" 
> Rather than ask why lutenists are "afraid" why not ask why they prefer music 
> other than new music. For me, I like the style of the older music and despise 
> the pretentiousness of some new music.
>   Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud players
>   etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world almost
>   - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ? See above response.
>   Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ? Have you stopped 
> beating your mother?
>   Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very specific
>   approach ? Why do contemporary composers think "pretty" is a pejorative?
>   Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
>   do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
>   approaches? Again - poorly stated question. You ask why something that may 
> or may not be true is true. Like my asking why all composers insist on 
> writing for de-tuned mandolin?
>  What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that dogmatic ? Good 
> question.
>   I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would have
>   a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the instrument. If 
> Dowland et al heard new music I believe they would choose another line of 
> work.
> 
> 
>   With kind regards,
> 
>   Met vriendelijke groeten,
> 
>   Bien cordialement,
>   Gilbert Isbin
>   [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
>   [2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
>   2. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Leonard Williams]

   I prefer to play music of the 16th c. on my lute, but one should
   remember that during its heyday (some 250 years?) the lute, its players
   and its composers adapted: five courses to 14, new tunings, new styles.
What would Dalza think of Weiss? Or of the chordal structure of the
   "modern" compositions?

   Regards,

   Leonard Williams
   -Original Message-
   From: Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com>
   To: gilbert.isbin <gilbert.is...@telenet.be>
   Cc: LuteNet list <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Wed, Mar 14, 2018 5:56 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
   A great number of instruments survived the ages since composers and
   players wrote music and applied techincs that fitted the spirit of that
   moment. So why not the lute.
   It's a challenge for contemporary composers to make modern music for
   this beatifull instrument. Do not only look back, but have an eye in
   the future.
   Gilbert you are a good example from the new generation of lute
   composers.
   Best regards,
   Wim Loos
   Op 14 mrt. 2018 22:34 schreef "Gilbert Isbin"
   <[1][1]gilbert.is...@gmail.com>:
   Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
   Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for
   the
   lute ?
   Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud
   players
   etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world
   almost
   - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?
   Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?
   Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very
   specific
   approach ?
   Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are
   trying to
   do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
   approaches?
   What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that
   dogmatic ?
   I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would
   have
   a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the
   instrument.
   With kind regards,
   Met vriendelijke groeten,
   Bien cordialement,
   Gilbert Isbin
   [1][2][2]www.gilbertisbin.com
   [2][3][3]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   --
   References
   1. [4][4]http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   2. [5]mailto:[5]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [6][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
   References
   1. [7]mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2. [8]http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   3. [9]mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   4. [10]http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   5. [11]mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   6. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   3. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   4. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   5. mailto:[5]gilbert.is...@gmail.com?
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com?
   8. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   9. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com?
  10. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
  11. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com?
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[David van Ooijen]

   Could part of the answer be that you see/hear/know a limited set of
   lute players, a set that tends to gather in this forum, and don't
   see/hear the more broadly minded lute players in this world? Or perhaps
   does this forum tend to talk mostly about hipp lute playing, even
   though many of its members are more broadly oriented? I
   meet/see/talk/know many lute players who play a lot of other music
   besides the canon composed by our beloved and revered Old Ones. I don't
   think playing one kind of music excludes playing another kind of music,
   and I see many colleagues, professional and amateur, although perhaps
   more amongst the first than among the latter, who share my point of
   view. I think the lute playing world exhibits a wide variety of music
   styles that happily coexist.
   I play pop, jazz, contemporary, folk and early music on any of my
   instruments, lutes included, and I know many of my professional
   colleagues who do the same in their concerts, CD recordings and
   privately. It's even a kind of a current fashion, a gimmick or selling
   point: cross-over programmes.
   David
   On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 at 22:34, Gilbert Isbin
   <[1]gilbert.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for
 the
lute ?
Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud
 players
etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world
 almost
- with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?
Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?
Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very
 specific
approach ?
Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are
 trying to
do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
approaches?
What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that
 dogmatic ?
I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would
 have
a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the
 instrument.
With kind regards,
Met vriendelijke groeten,
Bien cordialement,
Gilbert Isbin
[1][2]www.gilbertisbin.com
[2][3]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
--
 References
1. [4]http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
2. mailto:[5]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [8]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   3. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   4. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   5. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   8. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Wim Loos]

   A great number of instruments survived the ages since composers and
   players wrote music and applied techincs that fitted the spirit of that
   moment. So why not the lute.
   It's a challenge for contemporary composers to make modern music for
   this beatifull instrument. Do not only look back, but have an eye in
   the future.
   Gilbert you are a good example from the new generation of lute
   composers.
   Best regards,
   Wim Loos

   Op 14 mrt. 2018 22:34 schreef "Gilbert Isbin"
   <[1]gilbert.is...@gmail.com>:

Why is the lute world ruled by early music ?
Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for
 the
lute ?
Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud
 players
etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world
 almost
- with a very few exeptions - doesn't ?
Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ?
Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very
 specific
approach ?
Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are
 trying to
do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
approaches?
What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that
 dogmatic ?
I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would
 have
a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the
 instrument.
With kind regards,
Met vriendelijke groeten,
Bien cordialement,
Gilbert Isbin
[1][2]www.gilbertisbin.com
[2][3]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
--
 References
1. [4]http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
2. mailto:[5]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   3. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   4. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   5. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Mayes, Joseph]

Hello Mr. Isbin

I can only answer your questions from my own perspective - naturally. I have 
tried to do so below:

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of 
Gilbert Isbin 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:33 PM
To: LS LUTELIST
Subject: [LUTE] Some questions

   Why is the lute world ruled by early music ? Because the lute is considered 
an "early instrument" most if not all of the players were attracted to the 
instrument through its music.
   Why are 90 or 95% of the lutenists afraid to play new music for the
   lute ? This is a poorly stated question, as in, "Are you still on parole?" 
Rather than ask why lutenists are "afraid" why not ask why they prefer music 
other than new music. For me, I like the style of the older music and despise 
the pretentiousness of some new music.
   Why did guitarists, recorder players, cellists, pianists , oud players
   etc. took the challenge to play today's music and the lute world almost
   - with a very few exeptions - doesn't ? See above response.
   Why are luteplayers afraid to play something different ? Have you stopped 
beating your mother?
   Why do lutenists think the lute must be played with a very specific
   approach ? Why do contemporary composers think "pretty" is a pejorative?
   Why are lots of lutenists looking down at lutenists who are trying to
   do something else with the instrument, with other techniques, new
   approaches? Again - poorly stated question. You ask why something that may 
or may not be true is true. Like my asking why all composers insist on writing 
for de-tuned mandolin?
  What is the future for the lute music if it stays to be that dogmatic ? Good 
question.
   I guess Dowland and all the other wonderful lutes composers would have
   a good laugh with the today's lute world approach to the instrument. If 
Dowland et al heard new music I believe they would choose another line of work.


   With kind regards,

   Met vriendelijke groeten,

   Bien cordialement,
   Gilbert Isbin
   [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
   [2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com

   --

References

   1. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   2. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions about J. G. Conradi

[Edward Martin]

Dear Jorg,

Your first question is as to whether or not the 
notes should be played Germainic  or 
straightforward, or French, using 
inegale.  That is not an easy question, and I am 
not too certain as to the appropriate 
answer.  Certainly, this is French like music in 
origin, but keep in mind that the date of 
publication, a rather late 1724 (as compared to 
the 17th century French publications and 
manuscripts) suggests to me that due to the time 
and style, it should me played more Weiss-like, 
more straightforward.  Also, it was published in 
Frankfurt an der Oder, a distance from France.  I 
studied all the Conradi book for years, and came 
to the conclusion that it plainly sounds better 
with lesser inegale, or inequality.  That is my 
hunch, based on how I interpret this fabulous 
music.  Inegality seems more appropriate when 
there is less of a melody, but  Conradi uses long 
lines in a seemingly later style, so melodically 
to me I understand it as sounding its best played plainly.


The second question is about those slur 
marks.  There are 2 kinds in this book... one of 
them, a leagato bow as you say, looks like a 
smile.  The other, appears to be an upside down 
or inverted smile, or as I call it, a frown.  I 
agree in that the edition was very carefully 
made, and these markings are very 
deliberate.  Also, I agree that one can not make 
the frowns sound legato.  So, I take it to mean 
or imply a very fast appagiatura, or very fast 
pull-off.  In other works, play the first  note 
connecting the frown, and on the 2nd note, 
repeat the first note with a very fast pull-off, 
or fast appagiatura.  I do not have scholarly 
andwers, but it is what makes sence to me.  I find this convincing.


Lastly, thank you for your comments on my recording.

ed



At 07:07 AM 3/25/2010, Hilbert Jörg wrote:

Dear collected wisdom,

I have been studying the C-Major suite of Johann 
Gottfried Conradi for quite a time now, and I am 
aware of the fact, that he might be the editor 
and not the author. Some of the other pieces 
sound pretty much like Weiß, in my ears, but 
others do not. I also read the latest 
discussions in this mail-forum about this subject.


My first question is this one: Playing the 
c-Major Allemande, Courante and the Menuet, I 
have very much the feeling, that they should be 
played more or less the french way to sound 
natural. On the other side the Prelude ant the 
Giuge are certainly italian IMHO. This is just 
an impression of an amateur player, of course, 
but amazingly I found some similar ideas on a 
most beautiful CD of Ed Martin. He plays 
Allemande and Courante equally in the first 
place, and inegal in the repetition. Is there 
any evidence, to do it this way or the other one?


My other question concerns the slur-marks (what 
ever this is in English). There are the ordinary 
ones, such as commas and legato-bows, of course. 
But there is also another one — a turned bow 
under some letters. In the beginning I thought, 
it was just another sign for linking two tones, 
but looking more carefully on it, I can’t find a 
real systematic in it. Sometimes a slur is even 
not possible. This is surprising for me, because 
the edition seams to be very carefully made in 
any other matter of articulation. So what does it mean than?


Can somebody help me with my questions?

Thank you very much,

Jörg



--

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Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  e...@gamutstrings.com
voice:  (218) 728-1202
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name
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