[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Sadly I realized Joe Armstrong passed away on 20 Apr 2019 See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Armstrong_(programmer) Ir seems the death was because of something with similar effects to Coronavirus! rest in peace! On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 2:55:31 PM UTC+4:30, Mohammad wrote: > > This thread continues the discussion of Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/IGrE-fslX84/PB-8xcFmAgAJ > PART I > This thread continues the discussion of Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/smpdl-AK7tE/gLIA_7prBwAJ PART > II > > > This is to share information and see how we can use Tiddlywiki in this > situation as a tool to help others. > The original thread got around 885 views and more than 111 posts. Part II > has 132 posts and 355 views > > --Mohammad > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8b3ee4d4-d491-45c8-bb2c-f653647f88c6%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Not avoiding tou TT-- small issue of a frieght train intervening-- at least it felt like a frieght train. It should be another dat now that i'm eating and drinking, and I should be back on the computer. I'm only on the computer for this message so I son't have the link but FactCheck.org had a article about testing history and developements in the us that gives insights. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/aeeb0b3c-2c4f-4d7b-bf6a-58ad104f6410%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Possibly a time-card app for people working from home. I can imagine one using Thomas Elmiger's list-reveal as a starting point. On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 3:25:31 AM UTC-7, Mohammad wrote: > > This thread continues the discussion of Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/IGrE-fslX84/PB-8xcFmAgAJ > PART I > This thread continues the discussion of Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/smpdl-AK7tE/gLIA_7prBwAJ PART > II > > > This is to share information and see how we can use Tiddlywiki in this > situation as a tool to help others. > The original thread got around 885 views and more than 111 posts. Part II > has 132 posts and 355 views > > --Mohammad > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/777d347a-9435-4030-b590-ab10a9a6ea81%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
This also is interesting https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00935-3 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/49702cc9-93a5-42d1-8ce4-017908b537b3%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Hi TT, I am afraid I do not follow you! These are small light weight awareness icons! --Mohammad On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 2:40:23 AM UTC+4:30, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > *"COVID-19: Free Awareness Icons" * > > What! Don't you grasp how bad that sounds??? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1c6eaaf7-4c60-4768-9087-c9646b836eeb%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Hi Mat, Really good examples! Thank you Mohammad On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 5:05:12 AM UTC+4:30, Mat wrote: > > I'm not quite following this thread but based on the few posts I'm reading > above, it seems you're looking for a use for TW in the crisis. Maybe this > could give ideas? > >- https://css-tricks.com/get-static/ >- https://css-tricks.com/emergency-website-kit/ > > <:-) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/89eaf3d0-73d7-4b57-bd4e-59c6dc9d37e6%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
I'm not quite following this thread but based on the few posts I'm reading above, it seems you're looking for a use for TW in the crisis. Maybe this could give ideas? - https://css-tricks.com/get-static/ - https://css-tricks.com/emergency-website-kit/ <:-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/abf4999b-2c24-4d0e-99fc-72e529483f74%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Mark and TT TT Perhaps enter imagination mode rather than cynic. Tiddlywiki is great for cumulative personal notes. It can be used to build personally curated resources even a database and is easy to share with others. There is a lot of information out there but more of it is not relevant to particular circumstances than is relavant. Lets say you live in an apartment if you want to grow things you need selective info. Someone with an interest or hobby can capture their specialist knowledge for self or others. I am currently not working full time as I build my own business venture. However I told myself durring this period I would actively develop reusable skills durring this period so I have more skills if I return to work. If you are safe and can afford to live while isolated a lot of people feel out of control. I think self education and skills development can not only fill the gaps but prepare for better times. When I was young I experienced the stress of living paycheck to paycheck. I hated this, setting budgets for everything. Always thinking about what I don't have was depressing. As they say I learned to save for a rainy day. Its raining now work wise but not time wise. Using the extra hours available now but which will not be available when I work more, self education is me saving for the future. With tiddlywiki specifically you may see me active here but I am not publishing plugins or editions. One reason for this is I am in a large skills acquisition phase and building rapid development tools. I am developing fundamental tools on top of tiddlywiki and building a large list of possible applications. At the same time you will see me participating in the development of tiddlywiki because I see where its limitations lay. I specifically remain in the user and designer space without starting to code JavaScript so that my skills are based on tiddlywiki out of the box. I will one day publish more than code patterns for the community, if Mohammad has not already done it. Regards Tony -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6a74a305-d196-4b04-a3a8-547a59593062%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
*"COVID-19: Free Awareness Icons" * What! Don't you grasp how bad that sounds??? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/60e278cd-a0b5-4ec4-919c-a9209451fb61%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Good to know https://fontawesome.com/changelog/latest COVID-19: Free Awareness Icons Help get the word out about hygiene recommendations and other initiatives to fight COVID-19! Use these icons in signs, reminders, tracking apps, and more. Every solid style icon in this release is free to use and open-source. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/79d1f4fc-4137-42f5-82bc-1f3a91272840%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
It's hard to imagine what TW would bring to the table that PDF's and standard documents would not. The exception might be in education, since there are so many parents home schooling. This would actually be a good use of node. One computer could host the TW files on node. The kids could do their worksheets from their favorite tablet or device. The parents TW would load the kid's completed tiddlers and combine with the answer key. In this way they could track progress, provide feedback. The starting point (similar to recipes) would be access to high quality, DRM-free, source material -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/9ed27142-2229-42cf-beba-c21251496d1c%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
TonyM So let's do TW for family movies ... Just ask me to give a long list. But are they free? Tips and tools for working at home or learning new skills in extended > downtime for people who have lost their jobs would be a great place for > tiddlywiki. > How would that help them get jobs? Just asking. Basically its an economy with low demand now. A TW concerned with employment. Yes. There are also resources for saving money or growing vegies etc > Yeah masses exist for that already on web. Could you explain the benefit of a TW on that? Maybe one might optimize it? How? > at least for those entering the northern summer would be a helpful > supliment to food, activities and wellbeing for the isolated. > Could you give an example using a TW to aid that? TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/91b56e91-8048-4977-a670-dd350d921c1e%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Ciao Gloom Footnote, Swan Song, to this thread. I really should have said, "deep South-East, Redneck Central, very near the Gulf." You are right that both Beaumont & Vidor have strong aspects of Cajun culture. I lived in Beaumont a while. TT, x A Gloom wrote: > > TT > > It is Southern Texas. Vidor. It is a small city with a bad reputation. >> > > Vidor actually isn't too far south, its north of Houston and near > Louisiana > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/97a090af-4b7e-48c9-9d69-9b037a89322a%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...] Part III
Hi Tony! On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 10:14:52 AM UTC+4:30, TonyM wrote: > > Mohammad > > Thanks for keeping track of this important discussion. > > > Well if this is to share information and see how we can use Tiddlywiki in > this situation as a tool to help others. > > In addition to your ideas I see building home entertainment ideas for > those at home, especialy those home with children. Tips and tools for > working at home or learning new skills in extended downtime for people who > have lost their jobs would be a great place for tiddlywiki. > Absolutely great! I have time to move many lecture notes to Tiddlywiki. > There are also resources for saving money or growing vegies etc at least > for those entering the northern summer would be a helpful supliment to > food, activities and wellbeing for the isolated. > Thumps up! > Regards > Tony > > Regards > Tony > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/29aad939-844d-4633-98b2-2a266bf7b2a9%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Hi Josiah, I will! --Mohammad On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 2:32:09 PM UTC+4:30, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > Ciao Mohammad > > Could you start a new continuation thread? This one is paginating on web. > > Thanks! > TT > > On Thursday, 26 March 2020 10:00:02 UTC+1, Mohammad wrote: >> >> What Bill Gates told about Coronavirus? >> >> >> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/22/coronavirus-fact-check-did-bill-gates-predict-outbreak-2015/289091/ >> >> >> https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/18/bill-gates-addresses-coronavirus-fears-and-hopes-in-ama/ >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8bf32eb5-e9cf-49e0-846f-d719695de7c4%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Ciao Mohammad Could you start a new continuation thread? This one is paginating on web. Thanks! TT On Thursday, 26 March 2020 10:00:02 UTC+1, Mohammad wrote: > > What Bill Gates told about Coronavirus? > > > https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/22/coronavirus-fact-check-did-bill-gates-predict-outbreak-2015/289091/ > > > https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/18/bill-gates-addresses-coronavirus-fears-and-hopes-in-ama/ > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8c8bf070-4a2f-45c7-85ba-2b120bf99ec2%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
University labs are telling the politicians that they would be able to do the corona virus tests. They wonder why they have not been asked to do so. If that is so, it should be possible in most countries. If so why are most countries not testing enough? Birthe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/941576e4-7853-4b35-a2a0-bd979a677c8e%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
What Bill Gates told about Coronavirus? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/22/coronavirus-fact-check-did-bill-gates-predict-outbreak-2015/289091/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/18/bill-gates-addresses-coronavirus-fears-and-hopes-in-ama/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/2cdb9a7d-1333-4c8d-a8c4-ac35a82f02cb%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Earlier I complained about the elderly getting the news and the latest corona virus plan from TV. We were to change the TV signal end of this month. We are now told that it will be postponed for 3 months. Rather funny because politicians have discussed it but are not really able to decide before the final vote and that will be at march 31. Really seldom have we heard politicians agree BEFORE voting about something. *Arguments before:* Politician: signal change was decided 2015: you should have adapted to that. Old people: An Epidemic plan was made 2008: why did you not follow through with that practically? Birthe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/5c492ea7-bc55-4dab-9400-0638509db7a7%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
@TT *"Most people I know won't get tested because they can't afford treatment."* I believe your friend is misinformed. You test positive, they send you home unless you require hosipitalization for serious symptoms. There's no treatment. When they do have something and the government is footng the bill, they will cover it cause most of the state governments want this over ASAP (like NYC is doing with the malaria drug test if I'm understanding correctly). Despite what Trump may say, the state governments can oppose him and they're actually running the show not the Federal Government. As Mark said about Texas being a red state-- the rural areas which Vidor is in are stauntly conservative. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/eeb1abea-f673-4582-911e-bdc1f7fbfd68%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
> > > If the rich don't get it, or those in prison etc.. it is not universal. > Touche : ) Prisoners get medical through the prison system I believe its the state's responsibility to provide for their medical needs. > Our health care has being threatened a number of times, the "weasel words" > used in health and social security are, its a "safety net" rather than > universal. I don't like the idea of safety net, it makes me feel unless > they arrive in time you will hit the ground. > Or makes it sound like it's only there for when you fall, otherwise you're on your own We have Medicare (paid tor in wages taxes, that can be SUPPLEMENTED not replaced by private insurance, mainly for seniors and the disabled). We also have MediAid for low income. America is not a universal state yet but providing mainly for the poverty stricken, disabled and seniors. If you work and make over so much you're on your own, till maybe the ACA (I think they offer more options-- but don't quote me-- I have medical thru the military and VA so I don't know whats up with medical insurance), before that I had none and have the scars to prove it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/c974ad73-7597-4529-a6d8-8ded5996830e%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Only 1.5% of your wage? And the poor are protected? That's worth writing home about. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/d88ec896-d544-42d9-af5e-7e30c8f23103%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A Gloom, don't make enough to afford private health insurance-- they are the ones > whole need universal health not someone making $100,000 or more. > If the rich don't get it, or those in prison etc.. it is not universal. However in Australia we have a medicare levy, medicare being our healthcare system. I am not sure the exact figures but we all pay something like 1.5% of our wages through the tax system and people over say $70K will pay another percent if they do not prove they have private health insurance. However if you earn little or nothing you do not pay the medicare levy and in fact may be entitled to cheaper prescriptions and more, if they issue you with a "health care card". With insurance, you always have the choice to go public or private. Our health care has being threatened a number of times, the "weasel words" used in health and social security are, its a "safety net" rather than universal. I don't like the idea of safety net, it makes me feel unless they arrive in time you will hit the ground. More recently we have also adopted the "National Disability Insurance scheme" in which the Government insures all Australians such if they are born with or or acquire a disability they will be covered for help, equipment, care and basic support income their whole life. Interestingly this takes a lot of pressure of large payouts or legal suits, by being "off the table", overall insurance premiums can drop. Whilst I am proud of Australia's health care system, it is always in need of improvement, and the main reason I explain it to others is so they are informed to influence their own Governments, or will share the ideas within their own systems. Regards Tony -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8b0cd7d8-d378-48e6-a272-852d50c2b8d7%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT It is Southern Texas. Vidor. It is a small city with a bad reputation. > Vidor actually isn't too far south, its north of Houston and near Louisiana (more like the east part of the state). What I consider South Texas is much further south-- the Rio Grande Valley, which is much worst off. It's a small city in a rural area, so they're not going to get the same attenton/resources as the major metropolitan areas. But even in the best of cities, there's disadvantaged people, so Vidor don't need a rep to have people in need. America is huge with the bulk of its population in urban areas so the rural areas tend to get neglected or tended to last. When you hear of people being without electricity after a hurricane, its people out in the rural areas. This would also hold true during a pandemic-- the larger urban will get the most attention and resources. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/e7f5e68c-b383-49ad-b831-bd4407e587cb%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
> > We would need to get rid of a lot of EU restrictions. Reduce a hell of a > lot of bureaucrazy. > >From experiences in government and private sector-- there's no avoiding bureaucrazy-- the larger and more complex something gets (like a corporation or government agency/program) so does the rules/regs/red tape and expenses-- no avoiding it, you can only try to improve/correct issues-- thats where the problem lies, the systems aren't flexible enough to asjust quickly. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/445ab614-c932-41e8-bb70-ccff545899b7%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT It is Southern Texas. Vidor. It is a small city with a bad reputation. > Familiar with the town, spent 12 years in public service in Texas, But things have most likely changed since then. > For this situation with the virus you basically said nothing. Nope, I was speaking in general about healhcare. (Sorry busy dealng with issues here) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8eccbcb6-3680-430c-8c2d-fae3b50a6926%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, The young doctors are entusiastic and good, but they do not get to have the same practical experience. Not only because of few hospitals. Also due to more and more sick being treated without staying at hospital. Really getting thrown out to heal by themselves at home. It is a learning experience to receive a patient, take part in the diagnostics and treatment and being able to follow the healing. The small hospitals and the older way of doing things did that very much possible (Could not be avoided). It will be even harder to learn when the robots and AI take over. A lot of danish doctors are really over retirement age or close. Experience and teaching are leaving. Politicians are even discussing to send newly graduated, without the basic postgraduate training out to compensate for the lack of family doctors. That will be a very harsh start and not fair to the young - or the patients. The young do not like it as it is at least not after the first few years after graduation. Birthe torsdag den 26. marts 2020 kl. 01.22.00 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > Birthe C wrote: >> >> >> We would need to get rid of a lot of EU restrictions. Reduce a hell of a >> lot of bureaucrazy. The need for health professionals to use most part of >> their working hours to enter data for every possible thing. Much of it of >> no relevance to the actual treatment right now, but data registers are to >> be build. Everything collected and fun together. Often leaking in public. >> All that stuff are also hacked rather often. >> > > Right. My doctor loathes the computer but has to do hours on it doing > admin. It is "out of proportion", as he says. > > No doctor can learn without bodily interaction being central. > > My doctor is about 60. He has lots of years of practice. But what would a > 25 year old do now? > I should ask them. They likely have a different view? > > TT > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0ba13cde-486e-4bff-8cc1-ee7e73377518%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe C wrote: > > > We would need to get rid of a lot of EU restrictions. Reduce a hell of a > lot of bureaucrazy. The need for health professionals to use most part of > their working hours to enter data for every possible thing. Much of it of > no relevance to the actual treatment right now, but data registers are to > be build. Everything collected and fun together. Often leaking in public. > All that stuff are also hacked rather often. > Right. My doctor loathes the computer but has to do hours on it doing admin. It is "out of proportion", as he says. No doctor can learn without bodily interaction being central. My doctor is about 60. He has lots of years of practice. But what would a 25 year old do now? I should ask them. They likely have a different view? TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/397ea291-57ce-46bf-88cb-78c5ecdb07bc%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, We would need to get rid of a lot of EU restrictions. Reduce a hell of a lot of bureaucrazy. The need for health professionals to use most part of their working hours to enter data for every possible thing. Much of it of no relevance to the actual treatment right now, but data registers are to be build. Everything collected and fun together. Often leaking in public. All that stuff are also hacked rather often. Educating enough doctors and nurses would also help. Not constantly let of personel to get yet more It or fancy campaigns. Taxpayers want something for their money. That something is diagnose and treatment. I do know the plan is more and more digitalization and dreams of robot, AI and all that. To make it more personal is even argued. I am not against that, but really they can not substitute everything. It will come to slowdown due to less and less people want to study long years, expensive years to work like they have been doing for years now. That is also why politicians wanted to increase the uptake of students only not enough students wanted it any more. Birthe torsdag den 26. marts 2020 kl. 00.53.18 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > Ciao cara Bifthe > > How can we reverse it? > > You complain but say nothing about how to slow or reverse it. > > Are you witness only? > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/7ee94227-a8a6-4db3-8e56-f766fc594d84%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A Gloom wrote: > > > TT: It is Southern Texas. Vidor. It is a small city with a bad reputation. >> >> The rest of your post doesn't really say anything much. >> IS there universal healthcare? Or not? >> > > Never claimed there was-- its a well known fact that America doesn't. > > What the rest of post said is America has public health if you fall below > the poverty level and mainly in the urban areas-- in our so called ghettos, > prople without health get their lives saved (like from gun wounds from > criminal activities without health insurance) rural areas often get > neglected. And there's a huge gap for medical insurance for the lower > middle class that don't quality for public assistance and don't make enough > to afford private health insurance-- they are the ones whole need universal > health not someone making $100,000 or more. > For this situation with the virus you basically said nothing. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8753b1ea-bc23-4278-8e68-4c3e4a5dc5d4%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Ciao cara Bifthe How can we reverse it? You complain but say nothing about how to slow or reverse it. Are you witness only? TT On Thursday, 26 March 2020 00:46:40 UTC+1, Birthe C wrote: > > TT, > > Sure that is the way we go. > > But large areas without doctors enough is not something we like. Really > and exclusion factor. You need to get a visitation to get anywhere else in > the system. > > Digitalisation is often mentioned to take up to 50% of the working hours > from doctors and nurses. The patients would like to have test, be diagnosed > and treated. > > If that is modern I gladly admit I am old and old fashioned, I like > something that works. > > > Birthe > > torsdag den 26. marts 2020 kl. 00.37.44 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: >> >> As an academic interested in "modernity" I'd say that development is >> exactly normal. >> >> TT >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/e559818d-d933-4348-b1d9-672f94e888c2%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, I guessed they where not. Buying up what is available on the market for sale does exclude other buyers wouldn't you think. Who is a great provider and would they be able to deliver. That would be nice to know, when the tests done in all countries are ended. If they show positive results that is. Birthe torsdag den 26. marts 2020 kl. 00.41.50 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > The point is its nothing American. The USA is not a great provider of it. > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/9395adb2-ec44-46a3-af76-fa11b02edd9a%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
> It is Southern Texas. Vidor. It is a small city with a bad reputation. > > The rest of your post doesn't really say anything much. > IS there universal healthcare? Or not? > Never claimed there was-- its a well known fact that America doesn't. What the rest of post said is America has public health if you fall below the poverty level and mainly in the urban areas-- in our so called ghettos, prople without health get their lives saved (like from gun wounds from criminal activities without health insurance) rural areas often get neglected. And there's a huge gap for medical insurance for the lower middle class that don't quality for public assistance and don't make enough to afford private health insurance-- they are the ones whole need universal health not someone making $100,000 or more. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4a6236dd-5c8c-467d-bc49-323d98ad7667%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, Sure that is the way we go. But large areas without doctors enough is not something we like. Really and exclusion factor. You need to get a visitation to get anywhere else in the system. Digitalisation is often mentioned to take up to 50% of the working hours from doctors and nurses. The patients would like to have test, be diagnosed and treated. If that is modern I gladly admit I am old and old fashioned, I like something that works. Birthe torsdag den 26. marts 2020 kl. 00.37.44 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > As an academic interested in "modernity" I'd say that development is > exactly normal. > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/bbc2ccb2-63bc-4b9b-86b3-2086cbe70765%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
The point is its nothing American. The USA is not a great provider of it. TT On Thursday, 26 March 2020 00:34:13 UTC+1, Birthe C wrote: > > TT, > > I know. About 50 years ago it was used for Malaria. > Now for a few other diagnoses. > Widely used in Africa for Malaria, yes, but really also for a lot of other > things. Kind of we are taking a pill for headache. > > Many countries did not have restrictions on the medical profession to use > it - laws changed rapidly a very short time ago. > > No matter how well known the medicin, you need to be able to buy it before > you can use it. It is not available to buy right now. Shortage due to > demand like everything else, masks, tests, respirators. > > Birthe > > > > torsdag den 26. marts 2020 kl. 00.26.45 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: >> >> Birthe C wrote: >>> >>> >>> By the way USA bought all the Chloroquine on the market. >>> >> >> They did not. Its a generic that had been around for decades. It was >> found in 1934. >> >> TT >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0a3edd7d-f289-49a4-87ed-11968304ee68%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
As an academic interested in "modernity" I'd say that development is exactly normal. TT On Thursday, 26 March 2020 00:24:41 UTC+1, Birthe C wrote: > > In Denmark we are paying high taxes and have universal healthcare. > Our system changed a lot since around 2004. Before we had large hospitals > in Copenhagen, Aarhus and Odense. The three largest cities and connected to > the universities. A lot of smaller hospitals all over the country. Everyone > had a family doctor. > Then that were changed. Now we were to have a few superhospitals with all > specialists. The local hospitals were closed. Not taking up enough medical > students and not having enough postgraduate training hospitals, well now > even in the biggest cities, not everyone can have their own "family doctor" > lack of around 30% without. Far worse outside the cities. > > Everything really worked better before the changes, more effective. And we > used to laugh thinking of USA. The truth being that not all danish taxes > was used on healthcare - really a rather small fraction with the old > system. In fact about half the money pr. head, that was calculated for USA > - and then they even had to pay more themselves and exclude at lot of > people. That was beyond our beliefs. > > All that has changed, the super this and that had the result of longer > distance for lots of people and less hospital beds in all. > > Digitalisation was costly and doctors and nurses now use a lot of time > doing what the secretary used to do. > > I have read that especially the Epic system are blamed for a lot of > hospitals in the USA claiming bankruptcy especially in 2018. > > USA are loosing hospital in a rapid rate. > > Birthe > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/094a0bf8-2d2b-475e-bf61-0f6b513b1102%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, I know. About 50 years ago it was used for Malaria. Now for a few other diagnoses. Widely used in Africa for Malaria, yes, but really also for a lot of other things. Kind of we are taking a pill for headache. Many countries did not have restrictions on the medical profession to use it - laws changed rapidly a very short time ago. No matter how well known the medicin, you need to be able to buy it before you can use it. It is not available to buy right now. Shortage due to demand like everything else, masks, tests, respirators. Birthe torsdag den 26. marts 2020 kl. 00.26.45 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > Birthe C wrote: >> >> >> By the way USA bought all the Chloroquine on the market. >> > > They did not. Its a generic that had been around for decades. It was > found in 1934. > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/449688cf-99e8-43ab-8c81-8614e4a115fa%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
> > My hardware tool supply sent a message like that, reassuring me that > they're taking extra measures to clean their location. I guess they're > keeping their doors open. Are they essential? Why not, considering even the > marijuana dispensaries have been deemed "essential". Beer distributors here are deemed essential-- may help the population handle the crisis better? (being stoned or drunk) Concerning keeping stocks on hand... not just unporfitable but an added expense-- if the guv did it-- to store and keep replaced for perishable goods. Even the guv has finite resources that have to be spread out over a whole bunch of programs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1c6487da-44e1-4739-b62c-2f951cde6abb%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe C wrote: > > > By the way USA bought all the Chloroquine on the market. > They did not. Its a generic that had been around for decades. It was found in 1934. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/e3fb666f-6cfe-4950-b240-efb6993f6716%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
In Denmark we are paying high taxes and have universal healthcare. Our system changed a lot since around 2004. Before we had large hospitals in Copenhagen, Aarhus and Odense. The three largest cities and connected to the universities. A lot of smaller hospitals all over the country. Everyone had a family doctor. Then that were changed. Now we were to have a few superhospitals with all specialists. The local hospitals were closed. Not taking up enough medical students and not having enough postgraduate training hospitals, well now even in the biggest cities, not everyone can have their own "family doctor" lack of around 30% without. Far worse outside the cities. Everything really worked better before the changes, more effective. And we used to laugh thinking of USA. The truth being that not all danish taxes was used on healthcare - really a rather small fraction with the old system. In fact about half the money pr. head, that was calculated for USA - and then they even had to pay more themselves and exclude at lot of people. That was beyond our beliefs. All that has changed, the super this and that had the result of longer distance for lots of people and less hospital beds in all. Digitalisation was costly and doctors and nurses now use a lot of time doing what the secretary used to do. I have read that especially the Epic system are blamed for a lot of hospitals in the USA claiming bankruptcy especially in 2018. USA are loosing hospital in a rapid rate. Birthe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/f05f852a-96d6-45b0-858e-64df32b24d29%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
It is Southern Texas. Vidor. It is a small city with a bad reputation. The rest of your post doesn't really say anything much. IS there universal healthcare? Or not? TT On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 23:58:35 UTC+1, A Gloom wrote: > > TT > > The two quotes from Texas ... >> > > South Texas? Much of that is rural and rural areas historically have been > neglected not just public assistance-- most social programs are based in > cities-- but health care in general. Appalachia and the First Nations > reservations have much worst because of their isolation. > > And I assume lower middle class? There's a povery level cut off for a lot > of puclic assistance that puts the lower middle class in a bind-- make > enough that the government determined your don't need assistance but in > reality you aren't making enough to cover things like medical and child > care. Been there and have a permanently bowed bone in my hand cause I > didn't want the extra expense of the county hospital to set it for me after > I broke it. > > People on public assistance were getting better health care than me with a > job-- in some cases better housing. > > >> A person ill would have NO idea of Liberals wishes you may have. There is >> as yet no Federal commitment to universal care. >> > > Liberal? not here-- disavowed both-- there won't be a commitment-- people > weren't happy with the hidden tax of the ACA-- America probably couldn't > afford (can't handle what social programs it already has) nor the citizens > would want to pay the taxes required for universal health care. Alot of > Americans can't afford the taxes already in place-- we don't get paid > enough for health care let alone financing it. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/10498653-e2c0-414d-972a-068f7ad2cc93%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A Gloom, Exactly, capacity is not enough, that is why I kept asking. If in doubt look at some of the stuff on this site https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/supply-chain/better-than-a-bandana-or-scarf-expired-face-masks-from-stockpile-ok-cdc-says.html Searching for everything from all over the world. Asking for masks from the depot and receiving a fraction, and old expired masks for a large part. By the way USA bought all the Chloroquine on the market. They are expected to use it for a lot of people in New York, to test the effect. Does it work, making the sickness milder and shorter? Some kind of do it and register how it goes, compared to others not getting it. (Not double blinded test). China used it and reported, France had some studies that looked promising in combination with other medicin, I think also Tony mentioned something from Australia about the same subject. Most contries are only testing, did not think the tests that were done were on large enough groups. Well the tests will not help many as chloroquine is not available on the market, at least not right now. Birthe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/99619782-f7b5-4f81-bd3a-154918a5793f%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 3:52:23 PM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > > Hopefully if you paid $736 a month you'd be okay? > > > If they don't have ventilators, or beds, then it doesn't matter what you pay. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/326627ef-8e1d-4097-ba8b-b256520db74b%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT The two quotes from Texas ... > South Texas? Much of that is rural and rural areas historically have been neglected not just public assistance-- most social programs are based in cities-- but health care in general. Appalachia and the First Nations reservations have much worst because of their isolation. And I assume lower middle class? There's a povery level cut off for a lot of puclic assistance that puts the lower middle class in a bind-- make enough that the government determined your don't need assistance but in reality you aren't making enough to cover things like medical and child care. Been there and have a permanently bowed bone in my hand cause I didn't want the extra expense of the county hospital to set it for me after I broke it. People on public assistance were getting better health care than me with a job-- in some cases better housing. > A person ill would have NO idea of Liberals wishes you may have. There is > as yet no Federal commitment to universal care. > Liberal? not here-- disavowed both-- there won't be a commitment-- people weren't happy with the hidden tax of the ACA-- America probably couldn't afford (can't handle what social programs it already has) nor the citizens would want to pay the taxes required for universal health care. Alot of Americans can't afford the taxes already in place-- we don't get paid enough for health care let alone financing it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/2c110bd9-08aa-421e-b23a-2765909c9d24%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Texas is one of the states that is actively fighting ACA (Obamacare) in the courts. Texas is a "red" state, which means that a lot of those people living check to check effectively voted against universal health coverage. This goes back to marketing and "death panels" -- the concept that mindless bureaucrats will decide your fate under universal care. Of course, privatized systems could, and have, make decisions that are just as draconian, but somehow people don't think of that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4d11cbef-2876-43db-b202-5822b33b2b07%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT I understood that the public information said "*not to call emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue* ?" it is that I call stupid, and I stand by it for the same reason you ask "HOW would you know what critical means". I believe we are in furious agreement. People need contact from multiple people regularly, and the need to be forearmed with questions to interrogate possible sufferers to get around misinformation/understanding and politeness. Of course insufficient attention may be a sad reality in an overstretched hospital system, but then para-medical volunteers may even be able to help with palliative care. Regards Tony On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 7:30:37 AM UTC+11, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > TonyM wrote: >> >> >> Birthe, >> >> In one of the apartments could be a very sick person, told not to call >>> emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue (The message people >>> ARE getting) . How hard would it be to phone for help? >>> >> >> Is this really happening *not to call emergency before hardly breathing >> and lips turning blue* ? This would be stupid, although one could >> imagine if the health system is overwhelmed. The percentage of people once >> infected that, have poor outcomes is low, so for many it will not be a >> problem, they just need to be quarantined. >> > > The point was HOW would you know what critical means? "Stupid" is not > helpful. A person alone needs criterion on their own symptoms. Public > announcements in Italy on self-care remain vague. Many people are > deferential by nature. I wonder if some are dying from politeness. > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b7ba2d4b-64a1-476f-9556-3bd6b765742a%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Mark S. wrote: > > > TiddlyTweeter wrote: >> >> Capacity in USA to treat people who paid for it is likely matched. >> > > No. JIT (Just In Time) inventory systems have been a staple of all > industries, including the medical/industrial complex for a long time. > Hopefully if you paid $736 a month you'd be okay? TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/010ceab4-fc94-4fa8-b295-80294590c7ce%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
My hardware tool supply sent a message like that, reassuring me that they're taking extra measures to clean their location. I guess they're keeping their doors open. Are they essential? Why not, considering even the marijuana dispensaries have been deemed "essential". On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > Getting messages from corporations telling me how much they care makes me > want to vomit. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8fd2c941-863c-4d25-9628-e8d0e7f57209%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 9:11:51 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > Capacity in USA to treat people who paid for it is likely matched. > > > No. JIT (Just In Time) inventory systems have been a staple of all industries, including the medical/industrial complex for a long time. There's maybe (depending on sources) 200,000 ventilators in the U.S. Keeping a lot of stuff around "just in case" is unprofitable, especially if it has a running time stamp. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1e8ddc36-ebc9-4d6f-8ec3-84b7c456f732%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Gloom, The two quotes from Texas ... *"people round here live from paycheck to paycheck"* *"Most people I know won't get tested because they can't afford treatment."* Seems likely. Since USA has NO universal healthcare commitment. A person ill would have NO idea of Liberals wishes you may have. There is as yet no Federal commitment to universal care. TT On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 22:29:49 UTC+1, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > A Gloom wrote: >> >> @TT >> >> Capacity in USA to treat people who paid for it is likely matched. >>> >> >> Just like Italy, America-- nor any other country I believe (I'm >> interested to see if Germany's bed capafcity is enough) >> > > German intensive care provision is better than Italy. > > >> Despite what everyone thinks, America does have medical care for >> non-insured ... >> > > It is simply not credible. There is no way that you can have universal > healthcare for all AND have expensive private systems at the scale USA has > that foster saving those most that pay most. > > Sure you could say "we helped". It is NOT a level field and pretence it is > is silly. > > My quotes from Texas express it quite well. > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ed296719-5aa3-4e8a-887f-8213dee2a886%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
So reply to a few. TT On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 22:11:40 UTC+1, A Gloom wrote: > > @TT > > I notice you ignored my comments. > > Which? There's so many! : P > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/5cc53c63-04c9-41a2-8386-4a00f1bc31ac%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A Gloom wrote: > > @TT > > Capacity in USA to treat people who paid for it is likely matched. >> > > Just like Italy, America-- nor any other country I believe (I'm interested > to see if Germany's bed capafcity is enough) > German intensive care provision is better than Italy. > Despite what everyone thinks, America does have medical care for > non-insured ... > It is simply not credible. There is no way that you can have universal healthcare for all AND have expensive private systems at the scale USA has that foster saving those most that pay most. Sure you could say "we helped". It is NOT a level field and pretence it is is silly. My quotes from Texas express it quite well. TT TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/558aff91-c274-4d01-aef9-e36b73897408%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
@TT I notice you ignored my comments. Which? There's so many! : P -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b449d73d-fa1e-467a-ad35-237ab43673bd%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
@TT Capacity in USA to treat people who paid for it is likely matched. > Just like Italy, America-- nor any other country I believe (I'm interested to see if Germany's bed capafcity is enough) is prepared for massive casualities (in this case sick), Been known since the Cold War (& civil defense) and movies have touched on it. When the article about Italy's health care system straining-- the doctors mentioned wartime casaulity rates (I rememcer that term from civil defense) Despite what everyone thinks, America does have medical care for non-insured, disadvantaged (publically funded county hospitals that already overwhelmed)-- i've used it before-- its limited by funding and you get billed if not on a social program/financial assitance. It will be overwhelmed just like private care-- NYC already called for assistance from the Federal Government because they already know they don't have the capacity. The military is mobilizing 2 hospital ships and 1 full field hospital which raises another issue-- lack of health care staff, military reserves draw from the civilian population and those who are health care may already be engaged in the civilian health care system. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/37b89e94-b5dd-4992-86a2-49fd30b0c044%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A Gloom wrote: > > Balcony singing is also taken up in Denmark? > > > Brilliant idea. > I can't sing decently. The idea of LOCAL solidarity is good though. What other ways do you suggest? TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a22b75f2-d00e-4f7d-ba98-3b2f17d598ca%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TonyM wrote: > > In Tracking mobile phones; If you are Quarantined with the virus and a > temporary law says you must be quarantined and you are wandering around the > streets putting others at risk it would make sense to detect your > activities. But of course the problem is the misuse of the technology now > or in the future. With any surveillance issue it often comes down to the > execution and supportive laws, unfortunately future governments can change > the laws > To say again. South Korea used phones & other surveillance tech to assist very effectively. Everyone was tracked. That is why it worked. It is an important issue. Pretty central I think. Though SK had the infrastructure already, so we should not beat up on ourselves yet. SK is a democracy that accepted it based on their previous nightmares with viruses. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fcf6eda1-125a-43b4-a024-b4f3505d6832%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
I notice you ignored my comments. On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 21:42:15 UTC+1, A Gloom wrote: > > Balcony singing is also taken up in Denmark? > > > Brilliant idea. But it would get the cops called on me >< Don't know if > they don't appreciate my singing voice or me singing Viking metal songs of > battle and glory-- probably both : D > > Americans have their noses glued to their mobilte device or TV? Though > the karaoke fans may with the karaoke bars closed. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/54a1e51b-5cac-4684-bbc6-25148fe78e86%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
> > Balcony singing is also taken up in Denmark? Brilliant idea. But it would get the cops called on me >< Don't know if they don't appreciate my singing voice or me singing Viking metal songs of battle and glory-- probably both : D Americans have their noses glued to their mobilte device or TV? Though the karaoke fans may with the karaoke bars closed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/01140621-31e8-4ceb-abf6-79c3820595c0%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TonyM wrote: > > > Birthe, > > In one of the apartments could be a very sick person, told not to call >> emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue (The message people >> ARE getting) . How hard would it be to phone for help? >> > > Is this really happening *not to call emergency before hardly breathing > and lips turning blue* ? This would be stupid, although one could imagine > if the health system is overwhelmed. The percentage of people once infected > that, have poor outcomes is low, so for many it will not be a problem, they > just need to be quarantined. > The point was HOW would you know what critical means? "Stupid" is not helpful. A person alone needs criterion on their own symptoms. Public announcements in Italy on self-care remain vague. Many people are deferential by nature. I wonder if some are dying from politeness. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/317dddfd-8255-46f9-8132-96f237d4183f%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
All, Interesting conversation. Birthe, In one of the apartments could be a very sick person, told not to call > emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue (The message people > ARE getting) . How hard would it be to phone for help? > Is this really happening *not to call emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue* ? This would be stupid, although one could imagine if the health system is overwhelmed. The percentage of people once infected that, have poor outcomes is low, so for many it will not be a problem, they just need to be quarantined. In Tracking mobile phones; If you are Quarantined with the virus and a temporary law says you must be quarantined and you are wandering around the streets putting others at risk it would make sense to detect your activities. But of course the problem is the misuse of the technology now or in the future. With any surveillance issue it often comes down to the execution and supportive laws, unfortunately future governments can change the laws. All, Use the words you want, Physical/Social Distancing. My point and that of the article is isolations and Quarantine is essential to reduce the peak in infection/hospitalisation, implementing isolations and Quarantine requires physical distancing, but as a community we must ensure social, emotional support for all in our society. Contact your elders and friends to say "Are you OK", if you are free to, deliver food outside someone's door, I just talked an elder through fixing the sound on her computer so she can receive electronic birthday wishes. Set up an open video connection with your children living elsewhere, or your grandchildren for a few hours, Call your parents daily, email people some entertainment, act as an advocate for someone disadvantaged and do some online shopping for someone without internet. Also, This would be a good time to introduce a "Universal Basic Income"e" Look after yourself and people near you, dear friends Tony > > Birthe > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/015066a4-9459-4f15-a815-044c006244e0%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, Go for it, in the right direction, that would tell them! onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 19.07.35 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > Getting messages from corporations telling me how much they care makes me > want to vomit. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/3db1d1fa-3313-4102-b39e-5b559f200bd9%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Getting messages from corporations telling me how much they care makes me want to vomit. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b373cfd2-1eef-4b59-b18a-bc393a5261eb%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Capacity in USA to treat people who paid for it is likely matched. I am more interested in everyone else who didn't. TT On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 16:51:04 UTC+1, Birthe C wrote: > > TT, > > I am not really worrying about how much money the health care businesses > in the USA have or have not. > > Do they have enough Intensive care beds ready to take care of people. > Surely part of the population has good insurance and would expect to be > treated. > > In my country a lot of the calculated resources are really adding the > stuff from dentists, the vets, the private hospitals and specialists. > In a country wanting business as usual, those businesses would expect to > continue life as normal and use their own equipmentOr is it only > business as usual for some businesses? > > Birthe > > onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 16.39.31 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: >> >> In terms of money the health care businesses in the USA should do fine. >> >> It everything OUTSIDE their policies that is the issue. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/04ffc18b-d91b-468d-aa03-9ab212dffcde%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, I am not really worrying about how much money the health care businesses in the USA have or have not. Do they have enough Intensive care beds ready to take care of people. Surely part of the population has good insurance and would expect to be treated. In my country a lot of the calculated resources are really adding the stuff from dentists, the vets, the private hospitals and specialists. In a country wanting business as usual, those businesses would expect to continue life as normal and use their own equipmentOr is it only business as usual for some businesses? Birthe onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 16.39.31 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > In terms of money the health care businesses in the USA should do fine. > > It everything OUTSIDE their policies that is the issue. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/2444a1de-dfc9-44ef-90e5-530d172bdab4%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
In terms of money the health care businesses in the USA should do fine. It everything OUTSIDE their policies that is the issue. TT On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 16:28:00 UTC+1, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > The worker in US who is on temporary contract have no heath rights at all > usually. > > There is NO such thing as *simple *insurance in USA. There is NO > universal bottom line. Each contract has different benefits. > > TT > > On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 15:27:55 UTC+1, Birthe C wrote: >> >> TT, >> >> Do they have the capacity in healthcare for people with insurance? >> Rather important for people wanting business as usual to know, I would >> think. >> >> >> Birthe >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/da8de8f0-42bd-4f34-bf87-39bd74674c21%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
One assumption you make there is that the employer determines healthcare. That is often not the case. It is so complicated I would not know where to start explain it. TT Birthe C wrote: > > Do they have the capacity in healthcare for people with insurance? > Rather important for people wanting business as usual to know, I would > think. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/224f7263-9bd8-4ed6-84c6-fb1d83b7f9e7%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
The worker in US who is on temporary contract have no heath rights at all usually. There is NO such thing as *simple *insurance in USA. There is NO universal bottom line. Each contract has different benefits. TT On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 15:27:55 UTC+1, Birthe C wrote: > > TT, > > Do they have the capacity in healthcare for people with insurance? > Rather important for people wanting business as usual to know, I would > think. > > > Birthe > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/9ef6cc96-abf7-4cc5-8fa8-7f6a2e157bef%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, Do they have the capacity in healthcare for people with insurance? Rather important for people wanting business as usual to know, I would think. Birthe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/9047ec06-d5f2-491b-b623-0c84749c6c42%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A follow on Southern Texas message ... *"Most people I know won't get tested because they can't afford treatment."* Background is that testing is free Federally. Treatment is vague & left to States. TT On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 14:48:32 UTC+1, TiddlyTweeter wrote: > > I got a great simple message from Southern Texas ... > > *"people round here live from paycheck to paycheck"* > > > I have grudging understanding on Trump wanting US to get back to work if > possible. > > Given USA healthcare is so crap on anyone with limited income or none. > > USA is very interesting to watch. > > Its not in a Good place to handle an epidemic IMO. > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/04191d1c-047c-4ba4-8f30-e876f67a428d%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
I got a great simple message from Southern Texas ... *"people round here live from paycheck to paycheck"* I have grudging understanding on Trump wanting US to get back to work if possible. Given USA healthcare is so crap on anyone with limited income or none. USA is very interesting to watch. Its not in a Good place to handle an epidemic IMO. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/872dde08-a2fe-4e3e-8172-0040bb20b267%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe C wrote: > > Exactly. But people who die at home will not be tested. They do not get > registered as Corona death, so much for statistics. > > Unless coroners are instructed to test the dead we won't know. For instance a coroner focuses usually on immediate cause of death like "heart failure" or "respiratory inadequacy" etc. They don't go further without cause. I will ask in Italy if coroners are testing or not. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/3243ac03-c48a-4398-9790-f5cff368fcfc%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, Exactly. But people who die at home will not be tested. They do not get registered as Corona death, so much for statistics. Birthe onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 13.07.26 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > > > Self-isolation is in danger of becoming "uninformed death". > > Instructions I seen in Italy on self-isolation are all too vague. > > TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/dc261d87-1600-4941-930c-4ad25b545a31%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe C wrote: > > In one of the apartments could be a very sick person, told not to call > emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue (The message people > ARE getting) . How hard would it be to phone for help? > I'm sure some people will die that way. HOW would you know its become critical? Self-isolation is in danger of becoming "uninformed death". Instructions I seen in Italy on self-isolation are all too vague. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a094d767-255e-4afe-aea8-b1993c8dad4b%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe C wrote: > > > In one of the apartments could be a very sick person, told not to call > emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue (The message people > ARE getting) . How hard would it be to phone for help? > Decide on a code to hang outside your window indicating you are ill. Say a towel? A thought. The point is to "flag" collective (local) awareness in some way. We live in societies mediated by people we don't know well for many services (like health). Missing is RE-connecting in some way with people we do. Hopefully neighbours care. *An inter-neighbour signalling system*. Put your phone number on a sign outside the window? Speak to Jones across the road. See what I getting at? Thoughts TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/86033b91-bcd0-4f88-bc51-503cd97a185f%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
> > TonyM wrote: >> >> >> Italians and French people singing from balconies is coming together >> socially not physically >> > *Actually that IS physical AND social.* But, maybe you could organise a "sing-a-long" online:-) Best wishes TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/5ac23004-6cfa-440a-ac33-7dcc1f78a484%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TonyM wrote: > > I think the thing is social distancing is what separation causes and > physical distancing is what is needed. > > Italians and French people singing from balconies is coming together > socially not physically as is a phone or Skype call. > Balcony singing, sure. Anything else? Any other physical activity? Shouting across roads to neighbours? Waving? The rest is ALREADY what hundreds of millions us do and have for years! "Virtual closeness" exists. Nothing new in that. That is just an existing general trend. People are doing it. Unless they can't. Post also still works here. It does not obviate fact human beings experience social relations most via proximity. TT > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/80fbe783-6c40-4d4e-a400-8aeae1f4597c%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TonyM wrote: > > I think the thing is social distancing is what separation causes and > physical distancing is what is needed. > > Italians and French people singing from balconies is coming together > socially not physically as is a phone or Skype call. It is these social > closeness activities that will help us deal with this crisis even if it > occurs at a physical distance. We need to all come together apart. > Sure amelioration is good! Isn't it happening anyway by those who can? Everyone I know closely here (white, middle-class, middle-aged) are beavering away on social media. People can who sing have been sometimes. But its amelioration, not a substitute for the missing direct connection. And I think its easy to forget how many most vulnerable don't have the internet or smartphone or know how to use it. TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1354d92f-0ecf-43ea-a955-a3c2e96cf981%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Tony, Balcony singing is also taken up in Denmark? It does seem nice. I just wonder? In one of the apartments could be a very sick person, told not to call emergency before hardly breathing and lips turning blue (The message people ARE getting) . How hard would it be to phone for help? Birthe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a3a6a438-e0b8-4ebf-bbb8-74212cfdd659%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
eek! apologies to both of you. On Wednesday, 25 March 2020 11:42:44 UTC+1, Birthe C wrote: > > TT, > > I could have written that, but I didn't. > > Birthe > > onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 10.57.35 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: >> >> Birthe wrote in reply to Gloom: >> >> I believe people are thinking medicine/healthcare system will "fix" them >>> if they get it-- I may be wrong but all they can do for you is supportive >>> care-- there's no "fix" for Covid19 yet? >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/c78e0764-e41c-4f25-bd20-9f89449f1626%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe C wrote: > > Yesterday we were told that we should really be tracked via mobile data. > > > That thought are not well received in the population. > Right. It is an excellent example of tension between "collective right to know about you" and "individual right to control you own life". As far as I understand it South Korea used smart phone tracking very effectively, alongside other surveillance, including CCTV. However that is in a context of sharing back data. They used social media to alert you of local "hotspot" areas to avoid using GPS. They developed an infrastructure for it since the previous epidemics in the region. I doubt other countries would have that degree of integration quickly. > I wonder will I be listed as a criminal for not owning a mobile? > Doubt it. Its just I would say that once government gets right to do that kind of "consolidated tracking" it may be very difficult to reverse. Best wishes TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b6fd7de5-9993-4e05-90f2-17bf9d716385%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
I think the thing is social distancing is what separation causes and physical distancing is what is needed. Italians and French people singing from balconies is coming together socially not physically as is a phone or Skype call. It is these social closeness activities that will help us deal with this crisis even if it occurs at a physical distance. We need to all come together apart. Tony -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fa1fe3ce-7328-445f-ae6c-9f6433631181%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TT, I could have written that, but I didn't. Birthe onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 10.57.35 UTC+1 skrev TiddlyTweeter: > > Birthe wrote in reply to Gloom: > > I believe people are thinking medicine/healthcare system will "fix" them >> if they get it-- I may be wrong but all they can do for you is supportive >> care-- there's no "fix" for Covid19 yet? >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b657dc22-d45a-490d-8a27-74ad6ba3dbd2%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
TonyM wrote: > > Interesting argument that the term should be physical distancing, > > Not social distancing. Detailed in attached PDF > Interesting short article that is likely wrong. *Social distancing is mediated through physical distancing. *Its not a concept, it is a reality. Sure, there may be some cultural variations on the psycho-social effects of distancing. Italy is a pretty "touchy-feely" society and physical distancing is obviously having profound negative consequences. BTW, if you look back at Ebola one of biggest issues controlling it was that the African cultures involved comfort the dying. Being with the dying is (was) considered essential. This is why anthropologists were used by WHO to try help work out a culturally acceptable way to distance. Best wishes TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/5f702c67-d8d6-4078-9d19-2e71dc427786%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe wrote in reply to Gloom: I believe people are thinking medicine/healthcare system will "fix" them if > they get it-- I may be wrong but all they can do for you is supportive > care-- there's no "fix" for Covid19 yet? > There are considerable variations by country caused by the co-factor of social behaviours. "Younger" cultures have different variants than "Older" countries as social behaviors differ. Because in West testing has been limited the infection matrix is only just emerging and still v. unclear. To be brutal, the stats, are confusing & inadequate. They conflate social behaviours and outcome measures. Yes, some younger people need intensive care. BUT is that the same issue as overall predictive norms on critical infection of the whole population? The problem with "Guesstimates" is that its like corralling the horse after its bolted. And the it bolts again. So the "guesstimate" gets accurate* eventually* post hoc, but now as its largely ad hoc. Being clear on emidemiological stats matters to planning effectively. If I can figure it out I'll post a note on the stats bits that are clear enough. Best wishes TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/53de2599-92ba-412b-881d-1a7c4ff62ad3%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe & all, Birthe C wrote: > > TT. > >> - can we look after the ill AND not have lockdown for the whole society? >> >> > Sure. Right now when the system gets overwhelmed we deselect the old and > sick. With less and less health workers surviving, you would of course > have to deselect more and more groups from getting treatment. (Resulting in > many more death) > Would you be able to find any more volunteers to do the treatments? > Probably. The Lombardy region asked for volunteers and 3,000 retired, unemployed or part-time health care workers volunteered. Several retired volunteer doctors died already. Another factor is equipment & supplies. Fiat factories in Italy are tooling up for mask production since Italy does not currently produce its own. Ventilators too with other companies. - what are the consequences of lock-down economically? >> >> > Higher than we know I am sure. Leaving every country with a hefty depth, > peoples savings have vanished and the pension savings will have lost in > value. > *Hopefully capacity to cope will improve*. As will treatments. Alpha interferons look promising. Asian countries trialed them first in combo with other drugs. And Cuba has been for a long time (Cuba has more doctors working internationally than any other proportionately; and extensively worked with epidemics in recent decades). Some cities in the West do have empty large buildings. Here we have a whole unused hospital. The rough thinking is to bring it back into use and use it specifically for covid for the region. > - given that the virus will "wave" after lockdown repeatedly do you think >> it is viable to lockdown repeatedly? >> >> Hm. Not having lock down does not mean that people have the money or > demands for the same products. > Not knowing if the hairdresser is infectious, would you go for a blond > treatment, having the highlighted stripes, the hair extension and some tan. > It might be a "beauty to die for" > So a big issue, if not the issue, is to *increase capacity* so that survival rates improve. You are right that after lockdown the economy is likely to be damaged from trepidation. Italy is awash with family run tavernos. My small city (40k) has 40 of them just in the main city. Trepidation may well devastate them. I asked friends to guess how many businesses here in Gorizia will never re-open, a kind of local bet. I guess 10% - 20%. They think it could be higher. Right now I need dental treatment. Dentists are shut. If its an emergency I would have to risk the emergency hospital. *Lock-down is about both coping now and capacity building for the future*. If you don't do that you can get in a viscous cycle. If you don't get back to work too, as well as reduce social isolation, it may be worse. Italy has High numbers of very old people who live alone totally unused to isolation. Who socialise daily and never before experienced this kind of situation. I haven't been able to look yet at "consequent" factors like suicide rates. Over financial ruin, on intense alienation from society, over just being very old and feeling you a burden etc I'm a person who likes being alone. And even I am going "stir-crazy". Best wishes TT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/387381a0-dce6-417f-9bed-14745bd734bc%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe Thank you for the kind words, it's obvious I'm not taking my disability/retirement well... but as someone more eloquent said it better than i could Because it gives some sense of power and passion In helpless innocence to try to fashion Our woe in living words howe'er uncouth. Thompson, City of Dreadful Night You are right about the younger ones. A lot of them need intensive care to survive. Everywhere some people are living in denial, but really we are able to find estimates for each country. (Not testing enough, most will be based on "guesstimates".) I believe people are thinking medicine/healthcare system will "fix" them if they get it-- I may be wrong but all they can do for you is supportive care-- there's no "fix" for Covid19 yet? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/77fafdd6-1286-497d-adb7-7480b6510c63%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A. Gloom First and most important. *We* need you - if I could, I would in fact clone you! You are right about the younger ones. A lot of them need intensive care to survive. Everywhere some people are living in denial, but really we are able to find estimates for each country. (Not testing enough, most will be based on "guesstimates".) Birthe onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 09.03.27 UTC+1 skrev A Gloom: > > They seem to forgot some of the first to die were people in their 50's not > 70's as they think will be the ones dying > > I'm sure everyone knows of Factcheck.org, the have a Covid section (tho > seems full of American stories and perhap[s not revelant to other > countries-- is the US the only ones living in denial? >> <<) -- > https://www.factcheck.org/a-guide-to-our-coronavirus-coverage/ > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/94edf5ed-b1e2-4cc7-ad64-cdefd998ba21%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe A sure way of spreading the virus faster. (The following is sarcasm). Just raise the price for intensive care and there will be beds and staff enough. They seem to forgot some of the first to die were people in their 50's not 70's as they think will be the ones dying I'm sure everyone knows of Factcheck.org, the have a Covid section (tho seems full of American stories and perhap[s not revelant to other countries-- is the US the only ones living in denial? >> <<) -- https://www.factcheck.org/a-guide-to-our-coronavirus-coverage/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/d4848461-a6da-453b-9577-b0f2316c2675%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A Gloom, A sure way of spreading the virus faster. (The following is sarcasm). Just raise the price for intensive care and there will be beds and staff enough. onsdag den 25. marts 2020 kl. 07.31.38 UTC+1 skrev A Gloom: > > I knew it but no one would believe the doomsayer-- the American economy > and its freedoms runs off of human secrifices... > > don't do a Google search for covid seniors sacrificed > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/7b6d8692-af0e-4352-9b63-fa813bb8062e%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
I knew it but no one would believe the doomsayer-- the American economy and its freedoms runs off of human secrifice... don't do a Google search for covid seniors sacrificed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/9659f1ac-a980--b729-86ba85e73bfd%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Interesting argument that the term should be physical distancing, Not social distancing. Detailed in attached PDF Tony On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 6:12:47 AM UTC+11, Mohammad wrote: > > This thread continues the discussion of Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/IGrE-fslX84/PB-8xcFmAgAJ > > This is to share information and see how we can use Tiddlywiki in this > situation as a tool to help others. > The original thread got around 800 views and more than 104 posts. > > --Mohammad > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/48dbd77c-be94-4768-8c20-bcc52050c0ec%40googlegroups.com. Physical Distance-Social Solidarity.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Folks, I am a modern sceptic and this demands I be sceptical or all claims until I have evidence. Many of you raise serious concerns about Government or Business responses in the current situation. I also refuse to claim a specific left/right conservative/progressive ideology, because neither prepackaged ideologies, always respond to evidence. My sceptical brain also recognises a serious need to respond to this pandemic based on science. This science and history itself points to a need to have the population respond appropriately and consistently, and there is no other organisation than the Government in most countries, who can apply rules to every member of the population, all be it temporary. Pandemics and disease in general, is by its nature about populations, we don't normally think of our self as part of a population we tend to restrict this to domestic farm animals and species in nature, or bacteria etc... It is not common for many of us to consider how we as an individual contribute towards the outcomes of the populations we live in. We should always be critical and sceptical, but we can "walk and chew gum" at the same time. We each need to recognise how we may need to temporarily put aside personal freedoms, in the interest of our whole societies. I am however concerned that healthy scepticism can quickly turn to cynicism by the untrained, That may lead to unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, such "backlash approaches" could undermine any evidence based strategies and put at risk a large part of our populations. Having being in the service of uncovering false claims, debunking conspiracy theorists, alt-med and anti-vax in society and the community, I can assure you if we do not dispute non-evidence based claims, from day one "false beliefs", by a less informed population can develop like a "pandemic of false ideas". As a responsible member of the Human race, we need to remain vigilant not only of others ideas, but the quality of our own ideas. In Sydney we saw 20 and 30 somethings gathering in large numbers at the beach, big BBQ's and packed nightclubs, either ill informed or feeling immortal, when they should have known better, these things are now banned because individuals did not take responsibility, had they done so, these bans would not be in place (at least yet). There is a direct relationship between how much individuals take individual responsibility and the need for the community/Government to take responsibility, if individuals do not. Increased freedom is a result of increased self responsibility. Freedom is useless to the dead. Exercising one's individual freedom, to suspend some freedoms temporarily, in the interest of our communities, is the "measure" of good and intelligent people. If humans wish to claim they are exceptional, and somewhat above raw in tooth and claw nature then, it is their own nature they need to question, and stand above. Nature/the Universe/Gods have their laws and they are ever present, we will be victims of our own hubris if we are not careful. End of "informed rant" Tony On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 6:12:47 AM UTC+11, Mohammad wrote: > > This thread continues the discussion of Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/IGrE-fslX84/PB-8xcFmAgAJ > > This is to share information and see how we can use Tiddlywiki in this > situation as a tool to help others. > The original thread got around 800 views and more than 104 posts. > > --Mohammad > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b3556a2e-f9e8-4d81-9139-d31d2749a490%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe I have had many encounters with Insurance companies throughout my life; none of them pleasant or profitable. The most irritating was being declined because I took a test that proved I did not have a "prior" condition. Turned out that taking the test was deemed to an "abnormal" act. As a result I was declined. The decline was noted in a database that is shared by all Insurance companies. Being declined by one meant declined by all. At this time, my only use of Insurance is for Business Succession planning which the Insurance monopoly lobby offers as an alternative that reduces taxation by government at time of death. Fortunately, I am now in a position to be "self-insuring" for the majority of health needs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/13b1a01c-65a9-4b5e-a50c-0d5b19d0ed1a%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Insurance would also like to know, where you shopped, when and what you shopped. You smoked at some point in life. You have shopped some wine or alcohol no matter how often and how much. You are not eating the healthiest menu. Conclusion you illness is your own fault, we can not cover you. For years people having more seldom illnesses or multiple illnesses that we do not know enough about have been called Functional Disorders. In reality treated in more and more clinics by psychiatrists. "It is all in the inside of your head. It is your way of thinking." Then people are not getting insurance and are left to themselves. Getting other symptoms, they are getting ignored largely. lack of tests or knowledge before this diagnose is very dangerous. Do not get a cancer later in life. It might be true for some people but not for the majority. In medical history many illnesses have been called hypochondria, but science later proved that not to be true. Register science looking for data can be an important thing, but science used to be so much more. Birthe tirsdag den 24. marts 2020 kl. 12.37.22 UTC+1 skrev HansWobbe: > > I don't like to be cynical, but... > > > re: listed as a criminal for not owning a mobile > > Abnormal behaviour does indeed have risks. And as a result of 911, the > "presumption of innocence" is no longer the norm. Now everyone must submit > to bureaucratic procedures in order to show they are not potentially guilty > > > re: internet-connected thermometers... > > I can certainly see that Insurance companies will use that data to negate > their coverage obligations under the guise of pre-existing conditions. > > > In Canada, we have recently had two major scandles in which the government > tried to deny their actions and ignore the RuleOfLaw. On 2020.03.23, the > declaration of Emergency Financial Powers, that will be in effect for the > next 18 months, effectively suspends democracy itself. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b7a8f182-5768-4590-ac52-0114920cfe4e%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
I don't like to be cynical, but... re: listed as a criminal for not owning a mobile Abnormal behaviour does indeed have risks. And as a result of 911, the "presumption of innocence" is no longer thee norm. Now everyone must submit to bureaucratic procedures in order to show they are not potentially guilty re: internet-connected thermometers... I can certainly see that Insurance companies will use that data to negate their coverage obligations under the guise of pre-existing conditions. In Canada, we have recently had two major scandles in which the government tried to deny their actions and ignore the RuleOfLaw. On 2020.03.23, the declaration of Emergency Financial Powers, that will be in effect for the next 18 months, effectively suspends democracy itself. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6a63c0da-8585-4c6b-834a-34c431a3d879%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe, > I wonder will I be listed as a criminal for not owning a mobile? > You can join my outlaw organizatin of one currently-- I has not smartphone you mention something I was trying to spook associates with elsewhere-- someone showed a national map of counts from Internet connected thermometers and I saying we're seeing a glimpse of a Big Brother app-- they'll track your body temp and you get a fever they'll send you an email/text message/pop-up/social media DM that you better be self isolating or getting tested or be isolated/tested... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/d9ee8dbb-c405-491e-baa8-54ab439abd27%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Yesterday we were told that we should really be tracked via mobile data. That thought are not well received in the population. The comments are harsh or even worse, very sarcastic and black humoured. They will certainly know where people are at any time. The homeworkers can make nice curves and tables, statistics and all that jazz. They will not know who are infected though, because that are not tested before people are entering hospital, and the hospitals stay where they were yesterday and the day before. I wonder will I be listed as a criminal for not owning a mobile? Birthe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/530a8cf8-657b-4a66-98e6-0ddf2af55d8c%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe >From year 20 it goes downward faster and faster the older we get. If you > live to get old you are called weak, just because you did not die young? > The sad reality of humans is their ignorance they disguise through fooling theirselves-- the young help perpetuate attitudes that will be used against them when their time comes Abraham Lincolm wrote this in a young person's autograph book To Rosa You are young, and I am older; You are hopeful, I am not— Enjoy life, ere it grows colder— Pluck the roses ere they rot. Love his lesser known witings-- often feel a kinship -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6baf9451-fc8e-47a6-a53c-d08ec34c55f3%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
Birthe, > Do you really think so. Maybe in Australia? Look at who are getting the > support and more importantly who are not. > > I am not sure which part of what I said this was a response to. > Then think some years back to the last economic crisis. Who got the help > and who were left behind. > Its different this time, in Australia with the GFC we had a centre-left party, they stimulated the economy and we came out of it better than almost anyone > > I would not exactly call it a socialist model. > We now have a right wing party, what the are doing is socialist, at least for them, and given the different nature of the crisis perhaps even more government intervention than the GFC response. We have being called a "Socialist Democracy" by the thinkers for some time, though like everywhere else in the "west" we continue to become Americanised. What ever actually happens does not change the clear need; *to operate under the classic socialist model for a time, "from each as to their capacity, to each according to their need" * I am boyed by the facts that Australia has the largest number of not for profit organisation and a volunteer workforces in the world. If that can help as they did during our fires we will mitigate the damage quite a bit. Regards Tony -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/c78f656d-7971-4291-bb75-19c722ccad77%40googlegroups.com.
[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki and Coronavirus: March 2020 [Continued...]
A Gloom, No it does not get any easier. Old people are just young people living long enough to get old. I do not understand, why we call old people weak. They were strong enough to survive long enough to get old. They often have more illnesses, but it also takes years for many illnesses to develop and get diagnosed. No surprise then, that they are often diagnosed in the older group. >From year 20 it goes downward faster and faster the older we get. If you live to get old you are called weak, just because you did not die young? Very sad perspective indeed. Birthe tirsdag den 24. marts 2020 kl. 05.04.50 UTC+1 skrev A Gloom: > > I'll have an sobering, perhaps unique, aftermath prespective-- when this > is over and done with and I return to the support group the Veterans > Administration offers, I wonder how many of us won't be making it, I'm one > of the youngest and have had a precautionary vaccine against pnumonia due > to risk, but the most of the rest of them (spread across a sizeable > geographic area) are much older and have more serious health conditions in > addition to their blindness. Even though soldiers are used to it, doesn't > make it easier. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6e04f208-d2c3-4cf4-9bfa-2eb1f5e5d72d%40googlegroups.com.
