Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Kevin demonstrates the ability to 'google' (Lance). Actually, I'd vote for his wife over him. (GWB) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 23, 2005 16:15 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Lance wrote: ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. Why is it that the lib's are always, so conceited in their opinion of themselves? Quotes from lances friends: I despise him [President George W. Bush]. I despise his administration and everything they stand forTo my mind the election was stolen by George Bush and we have been suffering ever since under this man's leadershipThere has to be a movement now to really oppose what he is proposing because it's unconstitutional, it's immoral and basically illegalIt is an embarrassing time to be an American. It really is. It's humiliating. Actress Jessica Lange at a film festival in Spain, September 25. "Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process . . . Capitalism is destroying the earth. "-- Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists "To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem"-- Lamont Cole "I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal "The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" -- Bill Clinton 1993 on MTV "(W)hen Communist U.S.S.R. was a superpower, the world was better off. The right-wing media is trying to marginalize the peace movement." -- Janeane Garofalo "The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't work up here, boy, you're out of it.' That's why I'm sure that if those towers had been destroyed without loss of life, a lot of people would have cheered. Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. It showed that the ego we could hold up until September 10 was inadequate." -- Norman Mailer David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance wrote: ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and is found now to be pure.Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of demons?Ephesians 2:1-6(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;(2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:(3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.(4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Lance wrote: ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and is found now to be pure. Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of demons? Ephesians 2:1-6 (1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Thanks David for the multitude of scriptural quotations. I stand by what I said. It's the acorn and tree thingy. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 23, 2005 11:37 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Lance wrote: ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and is found now to be pure. Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of demons? Ephesians 2:1-6 (1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Which in this case is a very good thingy! Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:58 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Thanks David for the multitude of scriptural quotations. I stand by what I said. It's the acorn and tree thingy. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 23, 2005 11:37 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Lance wrote: ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and is found now to be pure. Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of demons? Ephesians 2:1-6 (1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Lance wrote: ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. Why is it that the lib's are always, so conceited in their opinion of themselves? Quotes from lances friends: I despise him [President George W. Bush]. I despise his administration and everything they stand forTo my mind the election was stolen by George Bush and we have been suffering ever since under this man's leadershipThere has to be a movement now to really oppose what he is proposing because it's unconstitutional, it's immoral and basically illegalIt is an embarrassing time to be an American. It really is. It's humiliating. Actress Jessica Lange at a film festival in Spain, September 25. "Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process . . . Capitalism is destroying the earth. "-- Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists "To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem"-- Lamont Cole "I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal "The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" -- Bill Clinton 1993 on MTV "(W)hen Communist U.S.S.R. was a superpower, the world was better off. The right-wing media is trying to marginalize the peace movement." -- Janeane Garofalo "The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't work up here, boy, you're out of it.' That's why I'm sure that if those towers had been destroyed without loss of life, a lot of people would have cheered. Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. It showed that the ego we could hold up until September 10 was inadequate." -- Norman Mailer David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance wrote: ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.Oh, please stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and is found now to be pure.Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of demons?Ephesians 2:1-6(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;(2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:(3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.(4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
You don't have any idea what we are talking about, do you, Kevin. You seem to be motivated by whatever comes to mind while I have been onpoint You get so confused, Linda.I'll bet you are the kind of person who starts thinking about what you want to say just as soon as someone else starts talking. you have an "eye" problem JD psycho analeyes 101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You get so confused, Linda. It was not my opinion but Lance's. I'll bet you are the kind of person who starts thinking about what you want to say just as soon as someone else starts talking. That seems to explain how you can get so confused and off point. Pay attention -- but finish drying off first. JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 22:26:22 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Let me guess—You had that opinion before she ever said a word on TT, right? How’d I guess? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:09 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Expressing an opinion and "name calling" are two very different things -- but you know this. -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Note the Liberal name-calling. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you.David Miller.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you.David Miller.
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Note the Liberal name-calling. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you. David Miller.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Expressing an opinion and "name calling" are two very different things -- but you know this.-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Note the Liberal name-calling. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you.David Miller.
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Note the free rideShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note the Liberal name-calling. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you.David Miller. Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Let me guessYou had that opinion before she ever said a word on TT, right? Howd I guess? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:09 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Expressing an opinion and name calling are two very different things -- but you know this. -Original Message- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500 Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Note the Liberal name-calling. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you. David Miller.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
You get so confused, Linda. It was not my opinion but Lance's. I'll bet you are the kind of person who starts thinking about what you want to say just as soon as someone else starts talking. That seems to explain how you can get so confused and off point. Pay attention -- but finish drying off first. JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 22:26:22 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Let me guessYou had that opinion before she ever said a word on TT, right? Howd I guess? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:09 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Expressing an opinion and "name calling" are two very different things -- but you know this. -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:10:00 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Note the Liberal name-calling. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I dunno David, Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 18, 2005 09:13 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you.David Miller.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline Wong wrote: Words wound, David. Words that wound one person might alsoheal and liberate another person. Jesus said, "blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." We cannot judge the value of words based upon whether or not somebody in society does not like them. This is Liberty 101. Peace be with you.David Miller.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
DAVEH: Give me some time Kevin Deegan wrote: Maybe we can stick to one thread, Betwixt us, then? Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you answer a few questionsI have? DAVEH: That becomes a problem, Kevin. I hardly have time to read all the TT posts, let alone answer the pertinent ones. Many times I don't see a need to respond to your posts, as they don't seem to ask questions. Other times, the questions you ask seem more rhetorical. But I do have quite a few of your posts highlighted and hope to get to them as I can. However, I am getting more of them than I can possibly respond to. Kevin Deegan wrote: IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange The real question is which of the parties that might be. Could you answer a few questionsI have? Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT as being a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explore why other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as a forum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is that correct? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you are as you a re (and why you believe as you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. === That's not a hang up, Dave. That is the Lord trying to get you to see the truth. You are seeking because what you have does not satisfy. My fee is only fifty bucks. We live in an economocally challenged area where things are less expensive. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
OK, let me know.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Give me some timeKevin Deegan wrote: Maybe we can stick to one thread, Betwixt us, then?Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you answer a few questionsI have?DAVEH: That becomes a problem, Kevin. I hardly have time to read all the TT posts, let alone answer the pertinent ones. Many times I don't see a need to respond to your posts, as they don't seem to ask questions. Other times, the questions you ask seem more rhetorical. But I do have quite a few of your posts highlighted and hope to get to them as I can. However, I am getting more of them than I can possibly respond to.Kevin Deegan wrote: IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange The real question is which of the parties that might be. Could you answer a few questionsI have? Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT as being a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explore why other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as a forum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is that correct? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you are as you a re (and why you believe as you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. ===That's not a hang up, Dave. That is the Lord trying to get you to see the truth. You are seeking because what you have does not satisfy.My fee is only fifty bucks. We live in an economocally challenged area where things are less expensive. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
So who is bullying? Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Thank you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the kingdom is advanced is deception. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is it possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making racist or sexist remarks or bullying? You are off the subject and don't even know it. MY point is that hate speech is not what SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law in Canada will stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline wrote: Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. The value of speech is too high to curb it by prosecuting those who misuse it. When I was growing up, those in authority worked on the those on the receiving end of bullying. I was told, "sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you." Although the proverbmight not be entirely accurate, I needed to hear this.This made me develop a thick skin. I realized that words only hurt me if I let them hurt me. I much more favor this approach than putting bullys in jail. A true bully will eventually move toward violence anyway, and that is when the system will then discipline him and correct the evil root which he had allowed to grow within him. If Canada develops a lot of wimps who cannot handle any amount of criticism, we will know that I was right about how their approach is wrong in dealing with this problem. Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? Peace be with you.David Miller.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
If Canada develops a lot of wimps who cannot handle any amount of criticism TOO LATE ! David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caroline wrote: Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. The value of speech is too high to curb it by prosecuting those who misuse it. When I was growing up, those in authority worked on the those on the receiving end of bullying. I was told, "sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you." Although the proverbmight not be entirely accurate, I needed to hear this.This made me develop a thick skin. I realized that words only hurt me if I let them hurt me. I much more favor this approach than putting bullys in jail. A true bully will eventually move toward violence anyway, and that is when the system will then discipline him and correct the evil root which he had allowed to grow within him. If Canada develops a lot of wimps who cannot handle any amount of criticism, we will know that I was right about how their approach is wrong in dealing with this problem. Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? Peace be with you.David Miller. Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? And HYPOCRITICAL! AND PRIDEFUL, "we are the arbiters of correct thought" David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caroline wrote: Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. The value of speech is too high to curb it by prosecuting those who misuse it. When I was growing up, those in authority worked on the those on the receiving end of bullying. I was told, "sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you." Although the proverbmight not be entirely accurate, I needed to hear this.This made me develop a thick skin. I realized that words only hurt me if I let them hurt me. I much more favor this approach than putting bullys in jail. A true bully will eventually move toward violence anyway, and that is when the system will then discipline him and correct the evil root which he had allowed to grow within him. If Canada develops a lot of wimps who cannot handle any amount of criticism, we will know that I was right about how their approach is wrong in dealing with this problem. Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? Peace be with you.David Miller.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I oppose anyone who speaks wrongly about God and I hope to do with grace, love and wisdom. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? And HYPOCRITICAL! AND PRIDEFUL, "we are the arbiters of correct thought" David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caroline wrote: Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. The value of speech is too high to curb it by prosecuting those who misuse it. When I was growing up, those in authority worked on the those on the receiving end of bullying. I was told, "sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you." Although the proverbmight not be entirely accurate, I needed to hear this.This made me develop a thick skin. I realized that words only hurt me if I let them hurt me. I much more favor this approach than putting bullys in jail. A true bully will eventually move toward violence anyway, and that is when the system will then discipline him and correct the evil root which he had allowed to grow within him. If Canada develops a lot of wimps who cannot handle any amount of criticism, we will know that I was right about how their approach is wrong in dealing with this problem. Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? Peace be with you.David Miller. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Words wound, David. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. The value of speech is too high to curb it by prosecuting those who misuse it. When I was growing up, those in authority worked on the those on the receiving end of bullying. I was told, "sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you." Although the proverbmight not be entirely accurate, I needed to hear this.This made me develop a thick skin. I realized that words only hurt me if I let them hurt me. I much more favor this approach than putting bullys in jail. A true bully will eventually move toward violence anyway, and that is when the system will then discipline him and correct the evil root which he had allowed to grow within him. If Canada develops a lot of wimps who cannot handle any amount of criticism, we will know that I was right about how their approach is wrong in dealing with this problem. Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? Peace be with you.David Miller.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Ouch someone pass a law to shut her up.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Words wound, David. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. The value of speech is too high to curb it by prosecuting those who misuse it. When I was growing up, those in authority worked on the those on the receiving end of bullying. I was told, "sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you." Although the proverbmight not be entirely accurate, I needed to hear this.This made me develop a thick skin. I realized that words only hurt me if I let them hurt me. I much more favor this approach than putting bullys in jail. A true bully will eventually move toward violence anyway, and that is when the system will then discipline him and correct the evil root which he had allowed to grow within him. If Canada develops a lot of wimps who cannot handle any amount of criticism, we will know that I was right about how their approach is wrong in dealing with this problem. Isn't it ironic how you support Canada prosecuting people who express disagreement with others, but you do not support God for judging the wicked? Peace be with you.David Miller. Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Kevin Deegan wrote: Ouch someone pass a law to shut her up. === No need. The heat has run her out of the kitchen. Too bad. She might have learned the truth if she had stuck around.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
BUT one can not RUN away from God, He has a wrench for every nut!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Deegan wrote: Ouch someone pass a law to shut her up.===No need. The heat has run her out of the kitchen. Too bad. She might have learned the truth if she had stuck around. Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Raymond, note that I went back and ALSO showed you the scriptures that said GOD hardened Pharaohs heart; did you read those??? I also asked if you believe ALL of those scriptures, or only the ones that you agree with. Im still waiting for answer, please. Id really like to know. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:56 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Look ! I answered the question. The question was Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? I answered that I have read Exodus -- in fact, I probably know the book better than you. As for the other part of the question, I quoted verses that say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Go back and read it . And not just selectively read it. Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK the question was do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? and? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did and my reply was suited to it. Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the rest of the post! Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? See the ? that indicates a QUESTION Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a nut? Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy. Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also. (Ex 7:22-23) But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. (Ex 8:15) Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. (Ex 8:19) And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go. (Ex 8:32) And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. (Ex 9:7) And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken. (Ex 9:34-35) Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed? (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is it possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making racist or sexist remarks or bullying? You are off the subject and don't even know it. MY point is that hate speech is not what SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law in Canada will stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Could you answer a few questionsI have? DAVEH: That becomes a problem, Kevin. I hardly have time to read all the TT posts, let alone answer the pertinent ones. Many times I don't see a need to respond to your posts, as they don't seem to ask questions. Other times, the questions you ask seem more rhetorical. But I do have quite a few of your posts highlighted and hope to get to them as I can. However, I am getting more of them than I can possibly respond to. Kevin Deegan wrote: IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange The real question is which of the parties that might be. Could you answer a few questionsI have? Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT as being a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explore why other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as a forum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is that correct? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you are as you a re (and why you believe as you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. === That's not a hang up, Dave. That is the Lord trying to get you to see the truth. You are seeking because what you have does not satisfy. My fee is only fifty bucks. We live in an economocally challenged area where things are less expensive. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
DAVEH: ??? So you are suggesting that the things I mentioned---apostles, prophets, temples, etc.---are not necessary today, Kevin? If so, I respectfully disagree. Kevin Deegan wrote: DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets. WE have "THE Prophet" Luke 1 And thou, child, shalt be called THE PROPHET of the Highest DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed the Priesthood RV 1 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. JESUS IS HIGH PRIEST Heb 5:6 Thou art a priest for ever afterthe order of Melchisedec v10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. UNENDING PRIEST HB 7 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. HB 7 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. HB 7 Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. HB 7 For the priesthood being changed APOSTLE HIGH PRIEST HB 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands 1 Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 PT 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Is it better to realize something is missing, and search for it? Or is it better to feel comfortable assuming nothing is missing, and then stubbornly deny the need for more knowledge of the gospel? The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets. The Lord's people of Bible times needed revelation The Lord's people of Bible times needed further Scripture The Lord's people of Bible times needed the Priesthood The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples Could it be a Pride in their own Righteousness that would cause some today to label LDS (Liars, Deceivers, SEDUCERS) and then suggest we do not need the things the Lord's people needed in Bible times??? Kevin Deeg an wrote: The WHOLE Mormon argument is you are missing something. You need further revelation your Bible is incomplete, in error and lacking in the truth You have the Bible BUT do you have the Book of Mormon? (Like the recent TV add) You need Joe Smith You need the priesthood You need the Temple etc. So LDS beguile unstable souls with enticing words Col 2:4 HERE FOLLOWS THE ONLY SECTION WHICH MAY BY ANY STRETCH (or BEND) OF THE IMAGINATION BE CONSTRUED AS AN ASPERSION: In actuallity it is LDS who are generally full of Pride in their own Righteousness They have so much you don't have after all. This is why some label LDS (Liars, Deceivers, SEDUCERS) -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
It is not a two way road as amply illustrated by CW's false witness. CW believes SP's use hate speech, SP's scream and she is willing to perpetuate her HATE all the while, under the ruse of being nice and polite. Just questioning whether it is the best practice to scream at the sinners, sort of like the concerned christian who asks "when did you stop beating your wife?" Guilty without any evidence. To then perpetuate the story is to bear tales. ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is itpossible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promotedSP's making "racist or sexist remarks" or "bullying"? You are off thesubject and don't even know it. MY point is that "hate speech" is not whatSP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speechis what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law inCanada will stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men tocensor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptismThis may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not.All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may knowhow you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Maybe we can stick to one thread, Betwixt us, then?Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you answer a few questionsI have?DAVEH: That becomes a problem, Kevin. I hardly have time to read all the TT posts, let alone answer the pertinent ones. Many times I don't see a need to respond to your posts, as they don't seem to ask questions. Other times, the questions you ask seem more rhetorical. But I do have quite a few of your posts highlighted and hope to get to them as I can. However, I am getting more of them than I can possibly respond to.Kevin Deegan wrote: IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange The real question is which of the parties that might be. Could you answer a few questionsI have? Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of the parties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT as being a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explore why other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as a forum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is that correct? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you are as you a re (and why you believe as you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. ===That's not a hang up, Dave. That is the Lord trying to get you to see the truth. You are seeking because what you have does not satisfy.My fee is only fifty bucks. We live in an economocally challenged area where things are less expensive. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
DAVEH: ??? So you are suggesting that the things I mentioned---apostles, prophets, temples, etc.---are not necessary today, Kevin? If so, I respectfully disagree. Obviously not! I posted here to show we do have priests. We have Jesus the HIGH PRIEST who has an UNENDING Priesthood. Each every believer holds the priesthood. In a separate post I listed the responsibilities of such. Each every believer is the TEMPLE made without hands, where God wants to come and dwell. What a awesome thought, what a responsibility. God wants to take that old house of flash and make it Holy and dwell inside there! Seemed you were claiming that LDS had something that Christians do not and that Christians should desire those things.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: ??? So you are suggesting that the things I mentioned---apostles, prophets, temples, etc.---are not necessary today, Kevin? If so, I respectfully disagree. Kevin Deegan wrote: DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets.WE have "THE Prophet" Luke 1 And thou, child, shalt be called THE PROPHET of the Highest DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed the Priesthood RV 1 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. JESUS IS HIGH PRIEST Heb 5:6 Thou art a priest for ever afterthe order of Melchisedec v10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. UNENDING PRIEST HB 7 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. HB 7 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. HB 7 Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. HB 7 For the priesthood being changed APOSTLE HIGH PRIEST HB 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus DH says The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands 1 Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 PT 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Is it better to realize something is missing, and search for it? Or is it better to feel comfortable assuming nothing is missing, and then stubbornly deny the need for more knowledge of the gospel? The Lord's people of Bible times needed prophets. The Lord's people of Bible times needed revelation The Lord's people of Bible times needed further Scripture The Lord's people of Bible times needed the Priesthood The Lord's people of Bible times needed Temples Could it be a Pride in their own Righteousness that would cause some today to label LDS (Liars, Deceivers, SEDUCERS) and then suggest we do not need the things the Lord's people needed in Bible times???Kevin Deeg an wrote: The WHOLE Mormon argument is you are missing something. You need further revelation your Bible is incomplete, in error and lacking in the truth You have the Bible BUT do you have the Book of Mormon? (Like the recent TV add) You need Joe Smith You need the priesthood You need the Temple etc. So LDS beguile unstable souls with enticing words Col 2:4 HERE FOLLOWS THE ONLY SECTION WHICH MAY BY ANY STRETCH (or BEND) OF THE IMAGINATION BE CONSTRUED AS AN ASPERSION: In actuallity it is LDS who are generally full of Pride in their own Righteousness They have so much you don't have after all. This is why some label LDS (Liars, Deceivers, SEDUCERS)-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
CW All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. So Canadian Culture has successfully done what no other culture in the history of man has done? Do you have kids? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not.All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Thank you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the kingdom is advanced is deception. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is it possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making racist or sexist remarks or bullying? You are off the subject and don't even know it. MY point is that hate speech is not what SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law in Canada will stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
It's like child abuse. Society probably can't stop all abuse but teaching kids what is acceptable touch and what is not, who to tell and what to do helps. It also helps to tell people this behaviour will not be tolerated in this society. Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism CW All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. So Canadian Culture has successfully done what no other culture in the history of man has done? Do you have kids? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not.All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail MobileTake Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
You should be proud of being the only society to ever fix schoolyard Bullying. Were you traumatized in the schoolyard as a kid? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the kingdom is advanced is deception.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is it possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making "racist or sexist remarks" or "bullying"? You are off the subject and don't even know it. MY point is that "hate speech" is not what SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law in Canada will stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Actually no. Were you a bully? Wait, let me use my
gift of discernment:-) ;-)
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
You should be proud of being the only society to ever fix schoolyard
Bullying.
Were you traumatized in the schoolyard as a kid?
Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Thank
you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the
kingdom is advanced is deception.Love,Caroline-
Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent:
Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities
of understanding. Is it possible that you might not
understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making "racist
or sexist remarks" or "bullying"? You are off the subject and don't
even know it. MY point is that "hate speech" is not what
SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate
speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and
gossiping, and no law in Canada will stop that. The
anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which
is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy
-Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline
Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can
be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People
watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without
being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And
I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or
not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying
because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade
schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the
problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one
that is not tolerated. Love,
Caroline - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in
any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children.
Do they have tapes of the conversations at the
office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original
Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to
your fellow human being.
-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with
salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If
you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always
with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts
from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you
will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell
him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
subscribed. -- "Let your
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts
from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join,
tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with
grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every
man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to
receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell
him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
subscribed.
Yahoo! Mail MobileTake
Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile
phone.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
But it is the Teachers doing some of the ABUSE!Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's like child abuse. Society probably can't stop all abuse but teaching kids what is acceptable touch and what is not, who to tell and what to do helps. It also helps to tell people this behaviour will not be tolerated in this society. Can we stop all bullying? Probably not. But kids are more likely to tell teachers if they are being bullied, bystanders are more likely to intervene and bullies know this is not acceptable behaviour. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism CW All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. So Canadian Culture has successfully done what no other culture in the history of man has done? Do you have kids? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not.All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail MobileTake Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
NoCaroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually no. Were you a bully? Wait, let me use my gift of discernment:-) ;-) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism You should be proud of being the only society to ever fix schoolyard Bullying. Were you traumatized in the schoolyard as a kid? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for correcting me. But bullying is hate. Thinking this is how the kingdom is advanced is deception.Love,Caroline- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:31 AMSubject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, thank you for denigrating my capabilities of understanding. Is it possible that you might not understand something yourself? Have I promoted SP's making "racist or sexist remarks" or "bullying"? You are off the subject and don't even know it. MY point is that "hate speech" is not what SP's do by warning sinners that what they are doing is wrong. Hate speech is what human beings do every day by slandering and gossiping, and no law in Canada will stop that. The anti-hate laws are created by sinful men to censor free speech which is not politically correct. It is of satan. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism This may be beyond your understanding but people can be fired for racist or sexist remarks at the office. People watch their mouths. Some bosses find ways to be abusive without being racist or sexist but they have a high turnover in staff. And I'm sure the Lord judges them whether they are believers or not. All the schools are proactive in stopping bullying because they know kids lives can be ruined to the point where grade schoolers contemplate suicide. Your family solved the problem by homeschooling. But bullying is a real problem and one that is not tolerated. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Boy, Canada would have a field day in any gradeschool classroom. Or any family with multiple children. Do they have tapes of the conversations at the office during lunch hour? Izzy -Original Message- And you can't ...speak hatefully to your fellow human being. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail MobileTake Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Yes, CW has shown herself INTOLERANTDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship.Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech.Caroline wrote: What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting?Cursing is another issue entirely, but if they were out in front of my "place of worship" rebuking those attending church, that would be just fine. That is what freedom of speech is all about. More than that, I would very much welcome it because it would cause those entering to examine themselves whether they be in the faith. What is dangerous is when you have nobody in society rebuking the sinners within it. Some of the church hypocrites need some rebuking, even if it were to come from Satanists. If you know any who want to rebuke Christians, please send them over to my church meeting place.Caroline wrote: Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too?Our Constitution protects the right of speech in public places. Does Canada have any laws that protect free speech? Are most Canadians against free speech?Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
How many dozens have you affected? Remember you would not answer that one it is personal I suppose. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This, of course, is not the objection. It is not "tolerance" that is in question, but effectiveness of ministry (not to mention rudeness). I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. I suppose that is why we see almost no street ministry out here on the left coast. Intervention ministries, benevolent ministries, home church programs, youth and campus ministries seem to be the things that work best and turn the lest number of people off. Jd - back at long last -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Read the rest of the post! Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? See the ? that indicates a QUESTION Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I was an a witness. I DO NOT CONDONE ASSAULT. We were in a circle praying with eyes closed. There was a girl who requested prayer and was quite distraught. This guy was standing right there doing a sort of growling noise, for sometime. Making it hard to hear the prayer. He found the smallest guy there (he outwieghed him by 80 lbs) The victim could not even cry out, being assaulted from behind and in a choke hold. He dragged him down the sidewalk. Seems the guy was an LDS High Priest, some LDS took up a collection to help pay for his court costs. I believe he was charged with 2 felonies. Agravated assault can't remember the other charge. My pastor would not assault anyone, why do LDS High priests behave like Thugs? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BLAINE: Questions for Kevin and Perry: I distinctly recall underwear being waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon man reacting and attacking the wavers; were either of you involved in this?OR Did you condone it? In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry sinners? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Thanks Kevin. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I do not chase people down the street, I just preach do one on one discuss teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they care not, that is between them God I have discharged my responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry sometimes violent sinners I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire damnation" at the family events I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only “offensive” to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure I’m not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazi’s, etc. are cursing at me that’s a whole different matter—they are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the rest of the post! Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? See the ? that indicates a QUESTION Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline Wong wrote: And what did Jesus mean when he quoted Hosea, "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Jesus was telling us what He preferred to see from us. He would rather we be merciful to one another than offer sacrifices to God. If you remember, by this time, God was sick of meaningless sacrifices, offerings not from the heart, rituals. That is religeon. Mercy comes from a loving heart. Terry
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I hope JD is ahead of you in that total - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:11 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism How many dozens have you affected? Remember you would not answer that one it is personal I suppose. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This, of course, is not the objection. It is not "tolerance" that is in question, but effectiveness of ministry (not to mention rudeness). I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. I suppose that is why we see almost no street ministry out here on the left coast. Intervention ministries, benevolent ministries, home church programs, youth and campus ministries seem to be the things that work best and turn the lest number of people off. Jd - back at long last -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Terry, I agree. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: And what did Jesus mean when he quoted Hosea, "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Jesus was telling us what He preferred to see from us. He would rather we be merciful to one another than offer sacrifices to God. If you remember, by this time, God was sick of meaningless sacrifices, offerings not from the heart, rituals. That is religeon. Mercy comes from a loving heart.Terry
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I kinda figured you would. Caroline Wong wrote: Terry, I agree. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline Wong wrote: And what did Jesus mean when he quoted Hosea, "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Jesus was telling us what He preferred to see from us. He would rather we be merciful to one another than offer sacrifices to God. If you remember, by this time, God was sick of meaningless sacrifices, offerings not from the heart, rituals. That is religeon. Mercy comes from a loving heart. Terry
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
OK the question was do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? and? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the rest of the post! Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? See the ? that indicates a QUESTION Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Back in my legalistic days, I used to actually keep a total of "converts." The good news is that I understand the message in clearer terms. I just got through (yes, this Sunday afternoon) counseling a woman who is having a problem that is effecting her marriage. This week, I will (by invitation) be sitting down with one of my contractors and sharing with him some of what is encouraging to me in terms of reconciliation. He is one who bailed out for nearly three weeks. No one could get ahold of him. But he wants to talk about the Lord. He is the one asking the questions. And I can say that my children are all concerned about their relationship with the Lord. How many Chrsitian dads get to say that ! It doesn't make me something special --- but it sure does give me a deeper sence of appreciation toward my God. Do you keep a running total of "converts." I really do not know anyone who does this. I really do not understand the importance of the question. -Original Message-From: Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:07:35 -0500Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I hope JD is ahead of you in that total - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:11 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism How many dozens have you affected? Remember you would not answer that one it is personal I suppose. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This, of course, is not the objection. It is not "tolerance" that is in question, but effectiveness of ministry (not to mention rudeness). I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. I suppose that is why we see almost no street ministry out here on the left coast. Intervention ministries, benevolent ministries, home church programs, youth and campus ministries seem to be the things that work best and turn the lest number of people off. Jd - back at long last -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Look ! I answered the question. The question was Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? I answered that I have read Exodus -- in fact, I probably know the book better than you. As for the other part of the question, I quoted verses that say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Go back and read it . And not just selectively read it. Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK the question was do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? and? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the rest of the post! Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? See the ? that indicates a QUESTION Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
JD I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. You brought it up, an expert on FRUIT. As you admitted previously, you have no fruit, you can't understand the importance of the question which you raised.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back in my legalistic days, I used to actually keep a total of "converts." The good news is that I understand the message in clearer terms. I just got through (yes, this Sunday afternoon) counseling a woman who is having a problem that is effecting her marriage. This week, I will (by invitation) be sitting down with one of my contractors and sharing with him some of what is encouraging to me in terms of reconciliation. He is one who bailed out for nearly three weeks. No one could get ahold of him. But he wants to talk about the Lord. He is the one asking the questions. And I can say that my children are all concerned about their relationship with the Lord. How many Chrsitian dads get to say that ! It doesn't make me something special --- but it sure does give me a deeper sence of appreciation toward my God. Do you keep a running total of "converts." I really do not know anyone who does this. I really do not understand the importance of the question. -Original Message-From: Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:07:35 -0500Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I hope JD is ahead of you in that total - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:11 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism How many dozens have you affected? Remember you would not answer that one it is personal I suppose. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This, of course, is not the objection. It is not "tolerance" that is in question, but effectiveness of ministry (not to mention rudeness). I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. I suppose that is why we see almost no street ministry out here on the left coast. Intervention ministries, benevolent ministries, home church programs, youth and campus ministries seem to be the things that work best and turn the lest number of people off. Jd - back at long last -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
How canI say it so you get it? DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE BIBLE WHEN IT SAYS GOD HARDENED PHARAOHS HEART? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look ! I answered the question. The question was Have you not read the book of Exodus, OR do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? I answered that I have read Exodus -- in fact, I probably know the book better than you. As for the other part of the question, I quoted verses that say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Go back and read it . And not just selectively read it. Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK the question was do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? and? Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did and my reply was suited to it.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the rest of the post! Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? See the ? that indicates a QUESTION Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Apparently, you didn't read my post below.As you admitted previously, you have no fruit is something that has no truth in it at all. No such admission was made. But that's not really important. The whole idea that something is to be gained by comparing notch's in our gun handles is a litle childish. Did I miss your point? That is what you are asking, correct? JD I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. You brought it up, an expert on FRUIT. As you admitted previously, you have no fruit, you can't understand the importance of the question which you raised.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back in my legalistic days, I used to actually keep a total of "converts." The good news is that I understand the message in clearer terms. I just got through (yes, this Sunday afternoon) counseling a woman who is having a problem that is effecting her marriage. This week, I will (by invitation) be sitting down with one of my contractors and sharing with him some of what is encouraging to me in terms of reconciliation. He is one who bailed out for nearly three weeks. No one could get ahold of him. But he wants to talk about the Lord. He is the one asking the questions. And I can say that my children are all concerned about their relationship with the Lord. How many Chrsitian dads get to say that ! It doesn't make me something special --- but it sure does give me a deeper sence of appreciation toward my God. Do you keep a running total of "converts." I really do not know anyone who does this. I really do not understand the importance of the question. -Original Message-From: Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:07:35 -0500Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I hope JD is ahead of you in that total - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:11 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism How many dozens have you affected? Remember you would not answer that one it is personal I suppose. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This, of course, is not the objection. It is not "tolerance" that is in question, but effectiveness of ministry (not to mention rudeness). I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. I suppose that is why we see almost no street ministry out here on the left coast. Intervention ministries, benevolent ministries, home church programs, youth and campus ministries seem to be the things that work best and turn the lest number of people off. Jd - back at long last -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I thought he said he didn't keep track just as
David does not keep track the number of consecutive sinless days he has.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
JD I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the
Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are
dozens who effected in the very opposite
way.
You brought it up, an expert on FRUIT.
As you admitted previously, you have no fruit, you can't understand the
importance of the question which you raised.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Back in my legalistic days, I used to actually keep a total
of "converts." The good news is that I understand the message in
clearer terms. I just got through (yes, this Sunday
afternoon) counseling a woman who is having a problem that is
effecting her marriage. This week, I will (by
invitation) be sitting down with one of my contractors and sharing
with him some of what is encouraging to me in terms of
reconciliation. He is one who bailed out for nearly three
weeks. No one could get ahold of him. But he wants
to talk about the Lord. He is the one asking the
questions. And I can say that my children are all concerned
about their relationship with the Lord. How many Chrsitian
dads get to say that ! It doesn't make me
something special --- but it sure does give me a deeper sence of
appreciation toward my God.
Do you keep a running total of "converts." I really do not
know anyone who does this. I really do not understand the
importance of the question.
-Original Message-From: Caroline Wong
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Sun, 15 May 2005 15:07:35 -0500Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
I hope JD is ahead of you in that
total
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:11
AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
How many dozens have you
affected?
Remember you would not answer that one it is personal I
suppose.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This, of course, is not the objection. It is not
"tolerance" that is in question, but effectiveness of ministry
(not to mention rudeness). I personally believe that for
everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming
Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite
way. I suppose that is why we see almost no street ministry
out here on the left coast. Intervention ministries,
benevolent ministries, home church programs, youth and campus ministries
seem to be the things that work best and turn the lest number of people
off.
Jd - back at long last
-Original Message-From: David
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:26
-0400Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline wrote:
Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me
stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace
and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when
I enter my place of worship.
Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to
quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? --
another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside
your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want
quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech.
Yahoo! MailStay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
tour
Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
Learn
more.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a
follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes
Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now
back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but
Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a
superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So
their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch
councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing
whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus
baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's
root the other spirit. jt
On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he
is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is
poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I
can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to
believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim
intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is
self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens.
I'm referring to us all- by whatever label
that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal,
fundy. godly, godless
By the way,this is the label that we
(everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44
PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a
understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.
Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word
of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his
judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Izzy, have you considered that your reading
of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct
reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_
differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly
assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then
approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always
colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read
Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will
then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we
view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will
delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that
Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a
tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we
adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard,
vengeful and angry right here on TT.
A new approach to people's posts on TT would
be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our
prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief
would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have
agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God
ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather
than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about
just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning
post?
Jonathan
Truthtalk Alumnis
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Raymond, Have
you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it
says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart?
Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28
PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism
David: Why would such be bad? Have
you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you
think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees
and Pharisees) of his day? Was that
bad?
Raymond: I respectf
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Of course God in his foreknowledge knew what Pharoah would do but he gave him (was it 8 opportunities to repent?) and Pharoah himself made the choice every time to play games. So he was responsibile for hardening his own heart. First he hardened it and then God honored his choice. jt On Fri, 13 May 2005 15:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them. God respectfully disagrees in the HOLY BIBLE EX 4 I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Ex 7:3,13-14; 7:22; 9:12;10:11,20,27;11:10;14:4,8,17; Jos 11:20; Is 63:7 You are confusing a hard heart with God leading into sin which He would never do. The Character of God rules that out. This is one of the differences between the Mormon "god" the True God of the Bible. The "god" of Mormonism places men in situations where they must choose sin1 or sin2. God saying He hardened Pharaoh's heart is no contradiction, because He did harden his heart, by taking away the God Given ability (by Grace) to see or understand the truth. This was God's judgment upon him, his wicked heart became blinded. God's judgement on Israel is that "their minds were blinded" 2 Co 3:4 God did not make Pharaoh sin. He simply removed his hand of protection so that Pharaohs heart became hard rather than soft. His heart was already blinded, his understanding darkened, as this is mans natural state. Why should God reveal truth to those that do not want truth? The flip side is that, it is God's MERCY that gives a heart of flesh rather than a stony heart. Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.Pharaoh still had the ability to choose right. Pharaoh chose wrong over right. God did not force that decision. It is not that God made him do anything. God removed his restraining power Pharoahs wicked heart took over. God merely allowed the hardening to happen. Pharaoh even knew he did wrong but continued further in sin Exodus 9:27-35 (27)And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. ... (34) And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. (35)And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses. God's mercy also restrains the evil in mens heartsGenesis 20:6 "..Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; For I also withheld thee from sinning against Me: Therefore suffered I thee not to touch her." Notice God "KNEW" the integrity IN his heart God in mercy witheld him from sin!GOD TRIES MENS HEARTS God hardens hearts in response to what is in that heart. The God of the bible knows all things even can see in your heart. He also knows the future and knew Pharoah would stiffen his neck. He tries mens hearts and rewards them accordingly"I the Lord search the heart, I try the reigns, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doing." Pharaoh recieved of the Lord according to his own doing!Jeremiah 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.JUST REWARD Pharaoh recieved his just rewardHebrews 2:1-3 "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation"GOD WROTE THE LAW IN ALL HEARTSRomans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Pharaoh went against God his conscience. If you continue in sin ignore your conscience you will end up with a "conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Timothy 4:2GOD IS SOVEREIGNPharaoh thought that he determined the fate of God's people. God simply determined to show his power to fulfill His purpose: Exodus 7 "But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.""And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt."PHARAOH SINNEDIn spite of multiple opportunities the continual witness of God's men, Pharoah hardened his own
RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only offensive to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure Im not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazis, etc. are cursing at me thats a whole different matterthey are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
So this is where we respectfully disagree. I believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:56 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's earthly ministry would have been the Scribes Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now back then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's root the other spirit. jt On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject. Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading? Who made you chief editor of God's word? Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT. A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] bap
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
CW says Jonathan does not disagree with God's word What post did you read??? I did not see any Bible in the post, just his correction of the Bible. On what AUTHORITY do you Bible correctors operate? God has a controversy with you; DETAILS in the HOLY BIBLE Hos 4:1 EX 4 I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Ex 7:3,13-14; 7:22; 9:12;10:11,20,27;11:10;14:4,8,17; Jos 11:20; Is 63:7 You are confusing a hard heart with God leading into sin which He would never do. Acts 4:19 Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject. Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading? Who made you chief editor of God's word? Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT. A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them. Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out! Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Well Caroline, everyone to their own opinion. I
would take a lot of comfort in your thoughts if you were the
judge, but there is a different standard which
isnot near as lax. Yes God understood and loved us enough
to
send His ONLY begotten Son to pay for our
transgressions so that we would not have to continue to wallow in
them.So let the redeemed of the Lord say so
...My gospel is the "highway of holiness" (Isa 35:8-10)...
Orthodoxy is the"other way"
Are you aware that history is continually revised? They
are fixing to make poor old John Paul who because of
his Parkinsonism could barely stagger around and could
not conduct a homily before he died into some kind of a
miracle working superman/saint. Future generations will
not recognize him as the same man we saw on TV.
Along the same lines Priscilla Presley is revising her
history with Elvis and this is now in the process of being
transformed from the sordid
tale of a very beautiful 14yr old teen who Elvis met whilein Germany
and was given permission by her starstruck and misguided parents to live at Graceland
with the much older Elvis (attending
school in TN, while ATST beingsubject
to his perverted whims) - until they were married
5-6yrs later - into
a sweet andinnocent little love story for one of
the Networks - Truth has perished in the streets. jt
On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:20:49 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So this is where we respectfully disagree. I
believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path
having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and
understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be
judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity.
Love,
Caroline
From: Judy Taylor
Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is
a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes
Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now
back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be"
but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had
found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such
asArius. So their peculiardoctrine
and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which
BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new
wineskins" Jesus
baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at
it's root the other spirit. jt
On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Jonathan does not disagree with God's word
and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new
wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor
said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them
something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person,
madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim
to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that
transformation happens.
I'm referring to us all- by whatever
label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever,
liberal, fundy. godly, godless
By the way,this is the label that we
(everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44
PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would
have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.
Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's
word of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as
his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Izzy, have you considered that your
reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct
reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_
differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly
assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and
then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears
always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we
read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we
wil
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Tsk, tsk Judy! What have you been
watching?
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 14, 2005 08:52
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Well Caroline, everyone to their own opinion. I
would take a lot of comfort in your thoughts if you were the
judge, but there is a different standard which
isnot near as lax. Yes God understood and loved us enough
to
send His ONLY begotten Son to pay for our
transgressions so that we would not have to continue to wallow in
them.So let the redeemed of the Lord say so
...My gospel is the "highway of holiness" (Isa 35:8-10)...
Orthodoxy is the"other way"
Are you aware that history is continually revised?
They are fixing to make poor old John Paul who because of
his Parkinsonism could barely stagger around and
could not conduct a homily before he died into some kind of a
miracle working superman/saint. Future generations
will not recognize him as the same man we saw on TV.
Along the same lines Priscilla Presley is revising
her history with Elvis and this is now in the process of being
transformed from the sordid tale of a very beautiful 14yr old teen who Elvis
met whilein Germany and was given permission by her starstruck and
misguided parents to live at Graceland with the much older Elvis (attending
school in TN, while ATST beingsubject
to his perverted whims) - until they were married
5-6yrs later - into
a sweet andinnocent little love story for one
of the Networks - Truth has perished in the streets. jt
On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:20:49 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
So this is where we respectfully disagree. I
believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path
having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and
understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be
judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity.
Love,
Caroline
From: Judy Taylor
Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he
is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of
Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes
Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind.
Now back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them
be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey
had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such
asArius. So their peculiardoctrine
and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which
BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new
wineskins" Jesus
baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has
at it's root the other spirit. jt
On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Jonathan does not disagree with God's word
and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out,
new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my
pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving
them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a
person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill
causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine
until that transformation happens.
I'm referring to us all- by whatever
label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian,
anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless
By the way,this is the label that we
(everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ
followers.
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44
PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would
have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the
subject.
Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with
God's word of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as
his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Izzy, have you considered that your
reading of the Lord
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6)
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your place of worship (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your place of worship then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Caroline wrote: What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Cursing is another issue entirely, but if they were out in front of my place of worship rebuking those attending church, that would be just fine. That is what freedom of speech is all about. More than that, I would very much welcome it because it would cause those entering to examine themselves whether they be in the faith. What is dangerous is when you have nobody in society rebuking the sinners within it. Some of the church hypocrites need some rebuking, even if it were to come from Satanists. If you know any who want to rebuke Christians, please send them over to my church meeting place. Caroline wrote: Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Our Constitution protects the right of speech in public places. Does Canada have any laws that protect free speech? Are most Canadians against free speech? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
It's a different culture, David. You do understand that Britain, Europe, Eurasia, the near/far east, Russia etc. are significantly different cultures, do you not? What may pass as OK in the good old 'shoot 'em up' US of A would not pass of OK in Japan, do you not? Canada ain't America, thank God! - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 14, 2005 12:19 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your place of worship (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your place of worship then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Caroline wrote: What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Cursing is another issue entirely, but if they were out in front of my place of worship rebuking those attending church, that would be just fine. That is what freedom of speech is all about. More than that, I would very much welcome it because it would cause those entering to examine themselves whether they be in the faith. What is dangerous is when you have nobody in society rebuking the sinners within it. Some of the church hypocrites need some rebuking, even if it were to come from Satanists. If you know any who want to rebuke Christians, please send them over to my church meeting place. Caroline wrote: Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Our Constitution protects the right of speech in public places. Does Canada have any laws that protect free speech? Are most Canadians against free speech? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Seems that is what God's word says, Judy. What is wrong with the scripture as it portrays itself? Someone tell me what the problem is other than "that is not a correct translation" says who? How about dealing with the scriptures instead of "I think" I don't think some here even read the book!Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course God in his foreknowledge knew what Pharoah would do but he gave him (was it 8 opportunities to repent?) and Pharoah himself made the choice every time to play games. So he was responsibile for hardening his own heart. First he hardened it and then God honored his choice. jt On Fri, 13 May 2005 15:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them. God respectfully disagrees in the HOLY BIBLE EX 4 I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Ex 7:3,13-14; 7:22; 9:12;10:11,20,27;11:10;14:4,8,17; Jos 11:20; Is 63:7 You are confusing a hard heart with God leading into sin which He would never do. The Character of God rules that out. This is one of the differences between the Mormon "god" the True God of the Bible. The "god" of Mormonism places men in situations where they must choose sin1 or sin2. God saying He hardened Pharaoh's heart is no contradiction, because He did harden his heart, by taking away the God Given ability (by Grace) to see or understand the truth. This was God's judgment upon him, his wicked heart became blinded. God's judgement on Israel is that "their minds were blinded" 2 Co 3:4 God did not make Pharaoh sin. He simply removed his hand of protection so that Pharaohs heart became hard rather than soft. His heart was already blinded, his understanding darkened, as this is mans natural state. Why should God reveal truth to those that do not want truth? The flip side is that, it is God's MERCY that gives a heart of flesh rather than a stony heart. Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.Pharaoh still had the ability to choose right. Pharaoh chose wrong over right. God did not force that decision. It is not that God made him do anything. God removed his restraining power Pharoahs wicked heart took over. God merely allowed the hardening to happen. Pharaoh even knew he did wrong but continued further in sin Exodus 9:27-35 (27)And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. ... (34) And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. (35)And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses. God's mercy also restrains the evil in mens heartsGenesis 20:6 "..Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; For I also withheld thee from sinning against Me: Therefore suffered I thee not to touch her." Notice God "KNEW" the integrity IN his heart God in mercy witheld him from sin!GOD TRIES MENS HEARTS God hardens hearts in response to what is in that heart. The God of the bible knows all things even can see in your heart. He also knows the future and knew Pharoah would stiffen his neck. He tries mens hearts and rewards them accordingly"I the Lord search the heart, I try the reigns, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doing." Pharaoh recieved of the Lord according to his own doing!Jeremiah 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.JUST REWARD Pharaoh recieved his just rewardHebrews 2:1-3 "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation"GOD WROTE THE LAW IN ALL HEARTSRomans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Pharaoh went against God his conscience. If you continue in sin ignore your conscience you will end up with a "conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Timothy 4:2GOD IS SOVEREIGNPharaoh thought that he determined the fate of God's people. God simply determined to show his power to fulfill His purpose: Exodus 7 "But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.""And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt."PHARAOH
RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I do not chase people down the street, I just preach do one on one discuss teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they care not, that is between them God I have discharged my responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry sometimes violent sinners I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire damnation" at the family events I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only offensive to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure Im not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazis, etc. are cursing at me thats a whole different matterthey are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Kevin Deegan wrote: I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me! Great Attitude! Too bad we aren't all able to say the same. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
This, of course, is not the objection. It is not "tolerance" that is in question, but effectiveness of ministry (not to mention rudeness). I personally believe that for everyone "brought to the Lord" via some form of the Screaming Ministry, there are dozens who effected in the very opposite way. I suppose that is why we see almost no street ministry out here on the left coast. Intervention ministries, benevolent ministries, home church programs, youth and campus ministries seem to be the things that work best and turn the lest number of people off. Jd - back at long last -Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:19:26 -0400Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your "place of worship" (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your "place of worship" then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
David: Our Constitution protects the right of speech in public places. Does Canada have any laws that protect free speech? Are most Canadians against free speech? Caroline: Canada understands that free speech is meant to serve a democratic society. You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre. You can't do false advertising. You can't claim credentials you don't have. You can't lie while under oath in a court room. And you can't slander, libel, intimidate, threaten or speak hatefully to your fellow human being. We put a high value on people. Americans put high value on principles and rights. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct
yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry
sinners?
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12
PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism
Thanks Kevin.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
I do not chase people down the street, I just preach do one on
one discuss teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they
care not, that is between them God I have discharged my
responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about
slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having Christians
repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as
they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry
sometimes violent sinners
I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire
damnation" at the family events
I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular
basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling
people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for
me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
What Kevin says
is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches
against sin it is only offensive to sinners. The same word of God
either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against
sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure
Im not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin
curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for
us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads,
Nazis, etc. are cursing at me thats a whole different matterthey are of
satan, and so is cursing and molesting.
Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline
WongSent: Friday, May
13, 2005 9:32 PMTo:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
Someone I don't know, trust,
believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is
disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested
and intimidated when I enter my place of
worship.
What if it wasn't a Street
Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing
you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in
America that you could use to
stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU
too?
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM
Subject: RE:
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline,
do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom?
Izzy
Caroline
Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your
freedom ends when it encroaches mine.
Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news
more. Check
it out!
RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone Of course not, and for those that bear False Witness the Lord rebuke you. I have never heard ANY Street Preacher Curse. I have seen a number of them cry over lost souls. Have any of you ever really cried over the Lost, or is your heart cold? Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not chase people down the street, I just preach do one on one discuss teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they care not, that is between them God I have discharged my responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry sometimes violent sinners I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire damnation" at the family events I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only offensive to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure Im not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazis, etc. are cursing at me thats a whole different matterthey are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out!__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: Questions for Kevin and Perry: I distinctly recall underwear being waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon man reacting and attacking the wavers; were either of you involved in this?OR Did you condone it? In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry sinners? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Thanks Kevin. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I do not chase people down the street, I just preach do one on one discuss teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they care not, that is between them God I have discharged my responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about slandered, put on TV for "calling people whores", having Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry sometimes violent sinners I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach "Hellfire damnation" at the family events I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only offensive to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure Im not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazis, etc. are cursing at me thats a whole different matterthey are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline WongSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Great, great grand-daughter of Brigham Young exposes truth about cult of Mormonism - listen to interview 24 hrs per day until Monday, 3 PM (EST) host: Kelly McGinleyinterviewed: Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry May 13, 2005Friday - We will be airing a pre-recorded show!Sandra Tanner,with the Utah Lighthouse MinistryShe will be discussing Mormonism!The Mormon Church, which professes to teach the true way of salvation, teaches many things that are not compatible with the teachings of Christ. Mormon leaders have made the tragic mistake of pointing their people toward a church instead of toward the Saviour. They claim that their church is the only true church and that all others are false and have no authority. This tends to make the people more concerned about the organization than about their relationship with Christ.May 14, 2005Steve Lefeminedir., Columbia Christians for LifeColumbia, SCwww.ChristianLifeandLiberty.netListen to these points discussed during Kelly McGinley's interview withSandra Tanner, great, great grand-daughter of Brigham Young, the secondleader of Mormonism (as in Brigham Young University):Sandra Tanner and her husband Jerald were born into Mormonism, each with family connections going back to the religion's founding. After study of the beliefs and roots of Mormonism, they left Mormonism. Listen to the testimony of Sandra and her husband'sexperience. They came out of Mormonism, and both accepted Christ.Together they have authored over 40 books, and live in Salt Lake City, Utah, the heartof Mormon country. She and her husband have been out of Mormonism for over40 years now (Publish "Salt Lake City Messenger"). Utah Lighthouse Ministry, PO Box 1884, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110http://www.utlm.org/Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, and today, some break-off branches of Mormonism,accepting Joseph Smith as a "prophet of god" [sic], continue to follow Smith'steaching of polygamy (at least 50,000 people involved in polygamy in the region["the inner mountain area"], according to Sandra Tanner.Mormonism is laced with the influence of Freemasonry. Joseph Smith, the founderof Mormonism, was a freemason. Mormonism has secret handshakes which aresimilar to the secret handshakes of freemasonry. On the Mormon underwearused in the Mormon temple ritual, is small stitching that looks like the letters"L" and "V" - but the stitching actually represents the compass and square of masonry.Mormonism [blasphemously] believes Jesus was a created being, and that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. Mormonism [blasphemously] believes God was a man, and that He progressed to be a [g]od. Likewise, Mormonism believes that good Mormons can also progress to become a god.Mormonism believes angels, devils, Lucifer, Satan, and we humans are all really the same species, with the same potential - Mormons therefore believe Jesus and Luciferare both our older brothers.Mormonism believes you were born to God and [H]is wife in heaven before your earthlyexistence, and that you can become a god if you do well in this earthly life, and become a god over your own world, just as the real God is over this world (planet Earth).Contact Re-Taking America at 1-251-342-1360 to request a CD or audiotape of thisrevealing, authoritative interview with Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry,by Kelly McGinley, host of Re-taking America.Pray for the deliverance and salvation of Mormons trapped in the bondage of Mormonism,that they may come to know the Lord Jesus Christ, eternally pre-existent as the Divine Second Person of the Godhead; and by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, receive atonement and forgiveness for their sins, through the shed blood of Jesus Christon the Cross at Calvary [plus nothing !], and receive the true eternal life which only Hecan provide. Pray also for Bible-believing Christians, that believers will not "yoke" withthe non-believers of the false religion of the "Church" of the Latter Day Saints, i.e.,the Mormon "Church," in obedience to God's Word in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, to:"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:..." Certainly this wouldinclude not praying and worshipping with Mormons as if Mormonism was just anotherbrand of Christianity. As can be seen by the points made above, and by listening tothe Re-taking America interview of Sandra Tanner, it should be quite clear to anyone willing to contrast the teaching of God's Word in the 66 books of the Bible (O.T. amd N.T.), with the teachings of the Book of Mormon, and Mormonism's other spirtual books, that Mormonism is certainly not a Christian religion.The Bible says that true love, true Christian charity,... "Rejoiceth not in iniquity; but rejoiceth in [with] the truth." 1 Corinthians 13:6It is not love for God, nor love
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Truth has perished in the streets. jt And that ain't the only place! Hos 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Caroline, everyone to their own opinion. I would take a lot of comfort in your thoughts if you were the judge, but there is a different standard which isnot near as lax. Yes God understood and loved us enough to send His ONLY begotten Son to pay for our transgressions so that we would not have to continue to wallow in them.So let the redeemed of the Lord say so ...My gospel is the "highway of holiness" (Isa 35:8-10)... Orthodoxy is the"other way" Are you aware that history is continually revised? They are fixing to make poor old John Paul who because of his Parkinsonism could barely stagger around and could not conduct a homily before he died into some kind of a miracle working superman/saint. Future generations will not recognize him as the same man we saw on TV. Along the same lines Priscilla Presley is revising her history with Elvis and this is now in the process of being transformed from the sordid tale of a very beautiful 14yr old teen who Elvis met whilein Germany and was given permission by her starstruck and misguided parents to live at Graceland with the much older Elvis (attending school in TN, while ATST beingsubject to his perverted whims) - until they were married 5-6yrs later - into a sweet andinnocent little love story for one of the Networks - Truth has perished in the streets. jt On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:20:49 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So this is where we respectfully disagree. I believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity. Love, Caroline From: Judy Taylor Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's earthly ministry would have been the Scribes Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now back then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's root the other spirit. jt On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject. Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading? Who made you chief editor of God's word? Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Is she patting you on the head? Talk about condescension!Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So this is where we respectfully disagree. I believe Jonathan is on the right path and that you are on the wrong path having followed the wrong leaders. But that's okay. God loves you and understands all that make you think and act the way you do. There will be judgment but as His daughter, you will be with Him in eternity. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:56 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's earthly ministry would have been the Scribes Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now back then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's root the other spirit. jt On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject. Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading? Who made you chief editor of God's word? Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT. A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? Raymond: I respectfully disag
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Blaine, Yes. I was the mormon man that attcked the street preacher. That little guy put up a heck of a fight, but he finally converted me. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:18:47 EDT BLAINE: Questions for Kevin and Perry: I distinctly recall underwear being waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon man reacting and attacking the wavers; were either of you involved in this? OR Did you condone it? In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry sinners? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: _Lance Muir_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org) Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Thanks Kevin. - Original Message - From: _Kevin Deegan_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org) Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I do not chase people down the street, I just preach do one on one discuss teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they care not, that is between them God I have discharged my responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about slandered, put on TV for calling people whores, having Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry sometimes violent sinners I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach Hellfire damnation at the family events I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me! ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only “offensive” to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure I’m not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazi’s, etc. are cursing at me that’s a whole different matter—they are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: _ShieldsFamily_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org) Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Blaine, I was joking, of course, in that last post. You seem to have somehow identified me as a street preacher, although I have never preached on a street in my life. I happen to believe in what they are doing, that is, street evangelism, and admire them for their courage in spreading the word of God. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:18:47 EDT BLAINE: Questions for Kevin and Perry: I distinctly recall underwear being waved at General Conference in Salt Lake City, I recall a Mormon man reacting and attacking the wavers; were either of you involved in this? OR Did you condone it? In a message dated 5/14/2005 6:17:13 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with Lance and am glad you conduct yourselves as a Christian. How do you deal with the violent and angry sinners? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: _Lance Muir_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org) Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Thanks Kevin. - Original Message - From: _Kevin Deegan_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org) Sent: May 14, 2005 15:42 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I do not chase people down the street, I just preach do one on one discuss teach, answer questions, and or pray with people. If they care not, that is between them God I have discharged my responsibility. I try to conduct myself as a Christian. Try being lied about slandered, put on TV for calling people whores, having Christians repeat third hand stories they heard, Christians backpeddaling as fast as they can away from you, Dealing with the Authorities, Dealing with the angry sometimes violent sinners I preach all kinds of events and surely do not preach Hellfire damnation at the family events I have never been arrested in over 20 years of preaching on a regular basis. I have led a good number of lost to the Lord. I just love telling people about my savior, can't shut my mouth, look what He did for me! ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What Kevin says is not offensive to me in the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only “offensive” to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine my own life to be sure I’m not also in need of repentance for some sin. I doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazi’s, etc. are cursing at me that’s a whole different matter—they are of satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: _ShieldsFamily_ (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org) Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Are you a nut?Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you noticed? Raymond is not able to answer any questions! Q What color is your shirt? A I like golf. Q Which way to Canada? A I Drive a chevy.Bothoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following "And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also." (Ex 7:22-23) "But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:15) "Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said." (Ex 8:19) "And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go." (Ex 8:32) "And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 9:7) "And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken." (Ex 9:34-35) "Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?" (1Sam 6:6) Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out!
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Raymond, do you accept the verses below, but reject the verses that say that God hardened Pharaohs heart? Do you think only one can be true, and not both? I accept the truth of ALL of the verses in the Bible. Do you? They are not mutually exclusive. Izzy Ex 9:12 And the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. Ex 10:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them. Ex 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go. Ex 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go. Ex 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land. Ex 14:8 The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and he chased after the sons of Israel as the sons of Israel were going out boldly. Jn 12:39 40HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 9:20 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Izzy: Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Raymond: Yes, I have read Exodus. Take a look at the following And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said. And Pharaoh turned and went into his house, neither did he set his heart to this also. (Ex 7:22-23) But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. (Ex 8:15) Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaohs heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said. (Ex 8:19) And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go. (Ex 8:32) And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. (Ex 9:7) And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children Israel go; as the LORD had spoken. (Ex 9:34-35) Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed? (1Sam 6:6)
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Lance, were you commenting on the posts below or on something entirely irrelevant? Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 10:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism It's a different culture, David. You do understand that Britain, Europe, Eurasia, the near/far east, Russia etc. are significantly different cultures, do you not? What may pass as OK in the good old 'shoot 'em up' US of A would not pass of OK in Japan, do you not? Canada ain't America, thank God! - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 14, 2005 12:19 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. Hmmm. Is there a problem with tolerance here? You don't have a right to quietness when you are outside your place of worship (place of worship? -- another topic that needs addressing at another time). When you are inside your place of worship then you have a right to quietness. Those who want quietness in public places do not really believe in free speech. Caroline wrote: What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazis or Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Cursing is another issue entirely, but if they were out in front of my place of worship rebuking those attending church, that would be just fine. That is what freedom of speech is all about. More than that, I would very much welcome it because it would cause those entering to examine themselves whether they be in the faith. What is dangerous is when you have nobody in society rebuking the sinners within it. Some of the church hypocrites need some rebuking, even if it were to come from Satanists. If you know any who want to rebuke Christians, please send them over to my church meeting place. Caroline wrote: Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Our Constitution protects the right of speech in public places. Does Canada have any laws that protect free speech? Are most Canadians against free speech? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Nickolson to Cruise 'You can't handle the truth'. Hi kids! Can you all say the word 'implosion'? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 00:11 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Yikes, that old myth. Do you guys want the truth? Can you handle the truth? Then read this article from the Wasthington Post.Charge Often Repeated by U.S. Officials By Doug StruckWashington Post Foreign ServiceSaturday, April 9, 2005; Page A20 TORONTO -- True or false? Shortly before Sept. 11, 2001, several of the terrorists who would carry out the attacks that day slipped into the United States from Canada. Canadian officials are vexed that 3 1/2 years later, they have not dispelled the groundless claim that Canada was a route for the Sept. 11 hijackers. Frank McKenna, the new ambassador to the United States, calls it an "urban myth" and has been trying to beat it down in television interviews and letters to the editor."It took on a life of its own, like a viral infection," McKenna said in a telephone interview from Washington. This lingering headache for Canada underlines the enduring life of inaccuracies in the media and the sensitivity of Canadians to suggestions that their country's long and lightly guarded border is a threat to the United States. "It's something that won't go away," Bill Graham, Canada's defense minister, said of the apocryphal claim in an interview Monday. "We're very resentful . . . because not one suspect had been in Canada. All had been in the U.S., training in the U.S., with valid U.S. visas." The account was born in the first days after the attacks, when reporters and government investigators were scrambling to figure out how the conspirators had carried out the plot. Bernard Etzinger, a Canadian Embassy spokesman, says the "big bang" that started the legend can be traced to two Boston newspapers. A Boston Globe story on Sept. 13 said investigators were "seeking evidence" that the hijackers came through Canada. The Boston Herald reported the same day that federal investigators believed "the terrorist suspects may have traveled . . . by boat" from Canada. On Sept. 14, The Washington Post reported that an unnamed U.S. official had said two suspects "crossed the border from Canada with no known difficulty at a small border entry in Coburn Gore, Maine," and that others may have come through other Maine ports. On Sept. 16, that report was repeated by the New York Post, which also declared that "terrorists bent on wreaking havoc in the United States" had found Canada "the path of least resistance." On Sept. 19, the Christian Science Monitor referred to Canada as "a haven for terrorists." "It was just one of those things where everybody says, 'We all knew that,' and it becomes irrefutable," Etzinger said. In the weeks after the attacks, investigators established that all of the hijackers entered the United States from countries other than Canada, a finding that got the official stamp last summer with the release of the Sept. 11 commission report. But that has not stopped the story from spreading. The Canadian Embassy in Washington keeps a chart of new reports of the rumor. The chart shows that at least three U.S. representatives and one senator have recently repeated the claim. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) was quoted in October as saying the terrorists had crossed into New York from Canada. Her office disputes the quotes, but they prompted a flurry of outrage and demands in Canada for an apology. "It hurt Canadian feelings, particularly because we thought the Clintons were our pals," said Norman Hillmer, a professor at Carlton University in Ottawa and the author of a book on U.S.-Canadian relations. In August, Rep. Ruben Hinojosa (D-Tex.) declared to a congressional committee -- and repeated in a press release -- that "as we all know, terrorists entered the U.S. from Canada on Sept. 11, 2001, using passports that the Canadians accepted as valid despite the fact that the documents were doctored." The Canadian Embassy filed its now standard protest, and the congressman asked that the remarks be stricken from the committee record. He believed they were true from "some inferences," said his spokeswoman, Ciaran Clayton. "Those inferences were wrong." "Once a story is out there, it gets picked up and repeated," Graham, the defense minister, said with a sigh. "People don't check to see if it's been contradicted." Canadian officials concede that they are sensitive about the matter. "It vexes Canadians, because it's not just an untruth, but
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
If you're ever in the Toronto area again, you should drop by and visit us. Love Caroline - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism I liked Canada when I went there some time ago. My family is from Ontario--Middleville, to be exact. Borrowman's there are all related to me. We are Scots, by name at least. They have enough good Scottish sense not to put up with the ACLU, for sure. Please note: message attached -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Lance wrote: It's no surprize to me, and I suspect to anyone who has been reading you, that this would be your 'take'. It just may be a surprize for you to discover that it is not God's 'take' (proof texting aside). What I shared most certainly *IS* God's take. Do you think I would come up with this kind of thinking on my own? The Lord taught me this way of thinking. The natural human side of us wants to sugarcoat evil. God wants evil to be exceedingly evil that it might be rejected. Even Paul argues this concerning the reason for giving the law at Sinai. Lance wrote: When I think of you, Kevin and the bunch who do what you do, I cannot but think of the assault on the compound housing David Koresh. Many who were innocent died. Now why would you think of the assault in Waco, Texas when you think of us? Do you think I have a cult mentality (associating me with Koresh) or do you think I have the mentality of the governmental agressors? Remember that it was a liberal homosexual who led that assault. If you are concerned about the loss of life that happened there, maybe you should be thinking about what happened at Waco when you think about homosexuals. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 07:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Did what Kevin et. al. do harden people's hearts and turn them away from Jesus Christ? Then that's bad. Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? What God hates more than hardened hearts is apathy and lukewarmness. God's ministers polarize people, dividing the wicked from the righteous. People need to be pushed toward loving God with all their hearts or toward hardened hearts and a disdain for Christianity. I see this as a good thing. Choose this day whom you will serve, then do it with all your heart. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Yes I do. I believe that much of the teaching you espouse on TT is either mostly or totally your own (tradition). Thanks for the 'straight line' but, I'll pass this time. You have, IMO, an expansive range but, a small mind. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 13:30 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] baptism Lance wrote: It's no surprize to me, and I suspect to anyone who has been reading you, that this would be your 'take'. It just may be a surprize for you to discover that it is not God's 'take' (proof texting aside). What I shared most certainly *IS* God's take. Do you think I would come up with this kind of thinking on my own? The Lord taught me this way of thinking. The natural human side of us wants to sugarcoat evil. God wants evil to be exceedingly evil that it might be rejected. Even Paul argues this concerning the reason for giving the law at Sinai. Lance wrote: When I think of you, Kevin and the bunch who do what you do, I cannot but think of the assault on the compound housing David Koresh. Many who were innocent died. Now why would you think of the assault in Waco, Texas when you think of us? Do you think I have a cult mentality (associating me with Koresh) or do you think I have the mentality of the governmental agressors? Remember that it was a liberal homosexual who led that assault. If you are concerned about the loss of life that happened there, maybe you should be thinking about what happened at Waco when you think about homosexuals. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 12, 2005 07:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline wrote: Did what Kevin et. al. do harden people's hearts and turn them away from Jesus Christ? Then that's bad. Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? What God hates more than hardened hearts is apathy and lukewarmness. God's ministers polarize people, dividing the wicked from the righteous. People need to be pushed toward loving God with all their hearts or toward hardened hearts and a disdain for Christianity. I see this as a good thing. Choose this day whom you will serve, then do it with all your heart. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Well said !Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism What a resounding defense of the freedom you enjoy in CanaDuHCaroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They would probably end up in jail. No ACLU up here. No first amendment. Then they will be able to preach to the "perverts" and "sodomites" in prison. Perhaps that will be God's plan for them. Don't worry, I hear Canadian jailsare kinder and gentler places than American jails. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism And that would be your loss Lance ... Pray they will grace Ontario with a visit - jt On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wouldn't cross the street to see the 'cow suit' or, for that matter, Kevin. From: Judy Taylor From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I know Jesus. Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke. (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films) The Jesus you know is not the same being Lance. Yours is complacent and has a gospel that was never preached by Paul or any of the apostles. Have youheard Kevin preaching on the streetor areyou judging what you have experienced and giving your opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck Spingola were a little over the top - But have repented of that because -They are out thereI'll go to seeRuben in his cow suit if he ever comes to VA -Waving that underwear getsmore than a yawn :). jt From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" when he overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple? Instead, should he have quoted some 2nd century BC greek philospopher on the existential qualities of selling in the temple, then entered into meaningful dialog about what the philosopher really meant, whether or not it applies today, and then discussed how different interpretations of the scripture (OT) fit in with the philosophy? Lets be Real Christians, okay? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least without a 'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as one (I probably do as well) on TT. I bet he does 'on the street' also. It is such that give christianity a bad rep. He probably sees himself as 'suffering for the cause of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play. Kevin:Speaking JtoJ we ought to keep this in mind. From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave, I can't understand why you do not hang on every word Kevin posts!He backs up all of his biblical claims with scripture references, and not just one or two, with several to many. He backs up what he claims about the Mormon church with statements from your own non-prophets and leaders.He has a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to usethis passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to spread the gospel. I would expect him to act no differently on TT than he does on the street. Justbecause he does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should be does not mean that his exchanges are not meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the gospel to the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster. He steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the pseudo-intellectual realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:46:44 -0700 DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of theparties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT asbeing a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explorewhy other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as aforum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is thatcorrect? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them. God respectfully disagrees in the HOLY BIBLE EX 4 I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Ex 7:3,13-14; 7:22; 9:12;10:11,20,27;11:10;14:4,8,17; Jos 11:20; Is 63:7 You are confusing a hard heart with God leading into sin which He would never do. The Character of God rules that out. This is one of the differences between the Mormon "god" the True God of the Bible. The "god" of Mormonism places men in situations where they must choose sin1 or sin2. God saying He hardened Pharaoh's heart is no contradiction, because He did harden his heart, by taking away the God Given ability (by Grace) to see or understand the truth. This was God's judgment upon him, his wicked heart became blinded. God's judgement on Israel is that "their minds were blinded" 2 Co 3:4 God did not make Pharaoh sin. He simply removed his hand of protection so that Pharaohs heart became hard rather than soft. His heart was already blinded, his understanding darkened, as this is mans natural state. Why should God reveal truth to those that do not want truth? The flip side is that, it is God's MERCY that gives a heart of flesh rather than a stony heart. Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.Pharaoh still had the ability to choose right. Pharaoh chose wrong over right. God did not force that decision. It is not that God made him do anything. God removed his restraining power Pharoahs wicked heart took over. God merely allowed the hardening to happen. Pharaoh even knew he did wrong but continued further in sin Exodus 9:27-35 (27)And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. ... (34) And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. (35)And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses. God's mercy also restrains the evil in mens heartsGenesis 20:6 "..Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; For I also withheld thee from sinning against Me: Therefore suffered I thee not to touch her." Notice God "KNEW" the integrity IN his heart God in mercy witheld him from sin!GOD TRIES MENS HEARTS God hardens hearts in response to what is in that heart. The God of the bible knows all things even can see in your heart. He also knows the future and knew Pharoah would stiffen his neck. He tries mens hearts and rewards them accordingly"I the Lord search the heart, I try the reigns, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doing." Pharaoh recieved of the Lord according to his own doing!Jeremiah 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.JUST REWARD Pharaoh recieved his just rewardHebrews 2:1-3 "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation"GOD WROTE THE LAW IN ALL HEARTSRomans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. Pharaoh went against God his conscience. If you continue in sin ignore your conscience you will end up with a "conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Timothy 4:2GOD IS SOVEREIGNPharaoh thought that he determined the fate of God's people. God simply determined to show his power to fulfill His purpose: Exodus 7 "But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.""And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt."PHARAOH SINNEDIn spite of multiple opportunities the continual witness of God's men, Pharoah hardened his own heart Exodus 8:15,9:24Pharaoh admitted he sinned. Exodus 9:27 I have sinned this timeAnd yet turned right around sined more: Exodus 9:34 Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.THE SOUL THAT SINS IT SHALL DIEThe Egyptians? God avenged the whole lot of them drowned them in the sea, because they gave not God the glory.Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them.
RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT. A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them.
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Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject. Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading? Who made you chief editor of God's word? Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT. A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them. Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
AW PUKECaroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place of worship. What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a meeting? Is there any law in America that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Caroline, do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it encroaches mine. Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. I'm referring to us all- by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless By the way,this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject. Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading? Who made you chief editor of God's word? Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT. A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them. Discover Yahoo!Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out!
RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Izzy in blue: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:53 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading?No, as I can read and thats what it says. Do you have an alternative reading of I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go? If so, please post it. Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ (_expression_?) differently than you? You mean some may reconstruct what it actually says to suit their own biases? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus.Please supply scriptural basis when disagreeing with what scripture says. God does both; not either/or. The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions. No doubt, Jonathanyou are living proof. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture.Our view on the trustworthiness of scripture colors it more. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe.I have read what the Bible says and believed what God said about it. I did not have a preconceived point of view like you, so I am free to accept what it actually says. If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text I never wrestle with Gods textI believe it, even when it doesnt say what I want it to. (note that the textalso says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.That does not nullify the other scriptures saying that God hardened his heartboth are true. You only accept one.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning.Please show us your subsurface meaning. We all become like the God we adore.I certainly hope so. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT.Again you are living proof of your own words. I am not angry, hard or vengeful. You perceive me to be, which tells us more about you than about me. A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial.By and for whom? Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts (Where were those? Ohyou mean the Bible? perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. I really dont have time to figure out why everyone on TT believes what they doonly God knows, Im sure. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? God does soften hearts, but He also hardens them, as the Bible says. The SAME message will soften one hart while it hardens anotherever notice that? That is why Gods word is called a Two Edged Sword! Has God ever softened yours?Absolutely. Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue? I guess you missed the part where I asked him further questions about why he believes God didnt harden Pharaohs heart? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? And who is angry, hard, and vengeful? Nice talk, Jonathan. Good thing that God is the One that I depend on for approval; not you. For that reason I dont have to suffer hurt feelings over your scathing comments. Izzy Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis (Alumnus?) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism David: Why would such be bad? Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day? Was that bad? Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
he does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should be does not mean that his exchanges are not meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the gospel to the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster. He steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the pseudo-intellectual realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:46:44 -0700 DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of theparties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT asbeing a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explorewhy other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as aforum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is thatcorrect? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you are as you are (and why you believe as you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. So, every now and then you do reveal a bit about yourself, for which I am appreciative. But as I see it, you mostly put up a pretty thick wall hoping to wear your opponents down in their futile efforts toovercome that wall. Then you try to attack their perceived soft spot, hoping for a quick victory. That'll be $250 for your initial therapy session, please! :-D Kevin Deegan wrote: Why does it make discussions easier? Do you mean it will disarm those rascal Anti's? */Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: DAVEH: I think it makes discussions much easier if commonpoints are first found, Kevin. Kevin Deegan wrote: What is this Mormon preoccupation with finding all the thingswe have in common? Why would one want to find; lets say, for example, all the things they have in common with the devil? So what then; after we find what we have in common? */Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Charles Perry Locke wrote: DAVEH: Owhat an interesting response,Perry! I must say that I do find it rather curious that you would rather take a more vigorous new tack against my beliefs rather than discuss issues of theology common to both of us. It is not what we have in common that is theproblem...it is what we do NOT have in common. DAVEH: So you have no interest in discussing theology inan effort to see what we might believe in common? Maybe we have two different perspectives about TT, Perry. I view it asa place where people of divergent opinions can share ideasand quiz one another about their beliefs without feeling threatened or inviting a hard sell approach to changeother people. I'm beginning to think you are here to do battle, so to speak. To you, TT merely is a place to convert peopleto your way of thinking. Am I reading you wrong on this? If not, then for what reason did you come to TT, Perry? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
NO! Irrational
On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:36:50 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
We have our problems but at a much lower rate
that the average American city of same size.
Please note no one is saying Canada is perfect
and America is hell. We're saying that in some things Canada is better.
Reasonable no? Please note that no one is saying NIV is perfect and KJV is
trash. We're just saying that in some ways NIV is better but it's okay if you
want to keep using the KJV. Reasonable no?
From: Kevin Deegan
I was just up there in Toronto and there
were a number of shootings on the news.
Just a Myth?
Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
One would think that because we have kinder
and gentler jails we would have more violent crime, a bigger percentage of
the population in jail and a high recidivism rate. But we don't. Quite the
opposite in fact.
Perhaps there is something about treating
humans humanely.
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:07
PM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
We need less
kind, gentle jails. They are too much like spas. The
Japanese dont waste money on heat or a/c, and less folks want to go to
jail there. We also need total isolation for prisoners, for their own
protection and to lower recidivism.
Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline
WongSent: Wednesday,
May 11, 2005 8:45 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
They would probably end up
in jail. No ACLU up here. No first amendment. Then they will be able to
preach to the "perverts" and "sodomites" in prison. Perhaps that will be
God's plan for them. Don't worry, I hear Canadian jailsare kinder
and gentler places than American
jails.
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message
-
From:
Judy Taylor
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject:
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
And that would be
your loss Lance ... Pray they will grace Ontario with a
visit - jt
On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance
Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I wouldn't cross the
street to see the 'cow suit' or, for that matter,
Kevin.
From: Judy Taylor
From: "Lance Muir"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]I
know Jesus.
Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration,
Charles Perry Locke. (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the
films)
The Jesus
you
know is not the same being
Lance.
Yours is
complacent and has a gospel that was never preached by Paul or any
of the apostles.
Have
youheard Kevin preaching on the streetor areyou
judging what you have experienced
and
giving your
opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the
tactics of Chuck Spingola were
a little over
the top - But have repented of that because -They are out
thereI'll go to seeRuben in
his cow suit
if he ever comes to VA -Waving that underwear getsmore
than a yawn :). jt
From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" when
he overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple?
Instead, should he have quoted some 2nd cen
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
aims with scripture references, and not just one or two, with several to many. He backs up what he claims about the Mormon church with statements from your own non-prophets and leaders.He has a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to usethis passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to spread the gospel. I would expect him to act no differently on TT than he does on the street. Justbecause he does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should be does not mean that his exchanges are not meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the gospel to the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster. He steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the pseudo-intellectual realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:46:44 -0700 DAVEH: Nothing will make for easier discussions, IF one of theparties does not want to have a meaningful exchange, Kevin. I view TT asbeing a place where two or more people of contrasting opinions can explorewhy other's believe differently. I perceive that some TTers (such as yourself) are here not to have a meaningful discussion unless it results in the other person adopting your beliefs. Basically, you want to use TT as aforum to convert people to Christianity as you understand it...is thatcorrect? Assuming so, you probably don't feel a need to find areas of common belief, but rather cut right to the chase and try to overwhelm your opponent with their error of thought/belief as you perceive it. Have I analyzed it correctly, Kevin? I harbor no illusions about changing your anti attitudes, Kevin. But I am curious as to why you are as you are (and why you believe as you do), if that makes any sense. It's just one of my hang-ups I suppose. So, every now and then you do reveal a bit about yourself, for which I am appreciative. But as I see it, you mostly put up a pretty thick wall hoping to wear your opponents down in their futile efforts toovercome that wall. Then you try to attack their perceived soft spot, hoping for a quick victory. That'll be $250 for your initial therapy session, please! :-D Kevin Deegan wrote: Why does it make discussions easier?Do you mean it will disarm those rascal Anti's? */Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: DAVEH: I think it makes discussions much easier if commonpoints are first found, Kevin. Kevin Deegan wrote: What is this Mormon preoccupation with finding all the thingswe have in common? Why would one want to find; lets say, for example, all the things they have in common with the devil? So what then; after we find what we have in common? */Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Charles Perry Locke wrote: DAVEH: Owhat an interesting response,Perry! I must say that I do find it rather curious that you would rather take a more vigorous new tack against my beliefs rather than discuss issues of theology common to both o
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
You'd best frame this one, Terry. - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 22:46 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] baptism I think that means that you two do not think alike, and because of that you find fault with him. Terry Terry, I think you're the most brilliant person on TT. Perhaps we find fault with each other on TT only because we don't think alike. We share the same language and cyberspace but we come from different backgrounds and culture. Love, Caroline -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
