--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you cite a reference on that? I know that there
is a liberal
contingent that is pro Palestinian (and a
conservative one that is
anti-Israel), but I think that Americans in general
are very supportive
of Israel.
See:
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 01:08:02AM -0400, John D. Giorgis wrote:
At 01:48 PM 6/13/2003 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What right did the UN have to tell Arabs how they would be
governed, or to take away their homes?
The land was under UN jurisdiction, that's what right.
More importantly,
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of John D. Giorgis
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 1:27 AM
To: Killer Bs Discussion
Subject: Re: Where are the European hypocrites?
At 01:34 PM 6/13/2003 -0700 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I read Dan's
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
http://www.mclaughlinonline.com/newspoll/np2003/021803mideast.htm
at least shows that Republicans are consistently more
likely to favor Israel than Democrats, on every
question in the poll, although it doesn't split it out
by ideology.
Not in every question:
Many world
I'm sticking mostly to the personal communications...
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[ I wrote:]
snippage throughout
At times I wish people would just get the Gist of
what I or others mean and not
pick apart the details which are often due to
misspeaking.
What I notice
John Giorgis said:
When it comes to discussing the situation in Israel/Palestine, there
is very little serious reason, other than as a purelya cademic
pursuit, to debate the history of the problem.
So you don't think that understanding the origins of current problems as
part of an attempt to
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Of the politically vocal Americans on
the list*, I count
yourself, Georgis, Tarr, Cofey, Agretto and Cooper
as well right of
center. Several others such as Blankenship, Horn,
and Minete, are
middle right, IMO. Erik is tough to gage
--- John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 07:49 AM 6/13/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
Yeah, but there have been Jews in that area since
before recorded history and they made up a very large
proportion of the population before the Israeli War of
Independence.
You know, I do
Deborah Harrell wrote:
grin
I'm vocally left in certain areas, but I don't think
too many liberals own guns or support (at least
theoretically) the death penalty...
Just to be persnickety and try to defy labeling. ;)
Oh, I only mean left and right in a very general sense. Jan, for
instance
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: WMD
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 02:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
Of the politically vocal Americans on
the list*, I
From: Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: WMD
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:10:48 -0400
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 09:29 AM 6/14/2003 +0100 Richard Baker wrote:
So you don't think that understanding the origins of current problems as
part of an attempt to avoid similar problems in the future is
worthwhile?
Well, I hesitate to answer this question, since it is so clearly loaded,
but basically my position is
At 12:28 AM 6/14/2003 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
Dan,
Yes - I know him quite well, as amatter of fact. He's
a good guy. Why?
Because I read an article from the Christian Science Monitor about some of
the things I've been afraid of that quoted him. The article is at:
Isn't there something a
- Original Message -
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Seebergers] Stella Awards
Thanks guys!
Who knows, I might post it again next year!
(It seemed familiar, but funny, and I didn't
John Giorgis said:
2) I think that the history of the Israel/Palestine problem is highly
unlikely to be repeated in other conflicts in the future.
Suppose some manner of Kurdistan were produced and various Turkish and
Arab groups expelled or otherwise displaced. Wouldn't that be quite a
- Original Message -
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: Native American Rights RE: Where are the European hypocrites?
At 07:49 AM 6/13/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
Yeah, but there have
At 09:53 AM 6/14/2003 -0500, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: WMD
Deborah Harrell wrote:
grin
I'm vocally left in certain areas, but I don't think
At 10:15 PM 6/13/2003 -0700, you wrote:
Kevin Tarr wrote:
or bad things happening to good people.
My condolences, Kevin, it sucks when you work hard and the people that are
in a position to reward you are oblivious. I've had similar experiences.
As for music, I recently copied over 200 CDs in
On 13 Jun 2003 at 23:00, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
The New York Times editorial board consistently
condemns Israel for defending itself. The Wall Street
Journal Opinion page, by contrast, makes a better case
for Israel than Israeli diplomats do.
Yep - PR is where the cultural differences
IIRC, There are approximately 3 million native Americans in the US
today. CIA Factbook lists 'Amerindians' and 'Alaskan Natives' combined
as 1.5% of the US population, but does not supply exact figures. I
believe the number was more than 10 times that (30 million+) at some
point last century.
At 10:19 PM 6/13/03 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 10:00 PM 6/12/03 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Jan Coffey wrote:
*sigh* I know I must have made some syntactic mistake their myself but,
hay,
I'm just as human as Erik.
Erik's Human?
Huh.
Doug
8^)
Let Us Oft Speak
At 11:00 PM 6/13/03 -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can you cite a reference on that? I know that there
is a liberal
contingent that is pro Palestinian (and a
conservative one that is
anti-Israel), but I think that Americans in general
are very
On 14 Jun 2003 at 13:07, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 10:19 PM 6/13/03 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 10:00 PM 6/12/03 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Jan Coffey wrote:
*sigh* I know I must have made some syntactic mistake their myself
but, hay, I'm just as human as
On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 07:14 pm, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
I suspect a major reason that US conservatives back Israel is that a
major component of US conservatives is the so-called Christian Right
who are generally fairly fundamentalist Protestants who take the Bible
seriously (if not
http://www.newstatesman.co.uk/nscoverstory.htm
As a result, there are two characteristic figures in Europe today: the
deeply Europeanised anti-European and the deeply Americanised
anti-American. We have all met him, the pinstriped Tory Eurosceptic who
has a house in Tuscany, is an expert on
On 13 Jun 2003 at 21:59, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Additionally, the non US members on the list are, I think, actually
very moderate, the exception being Illana (sp?), who is probably among
the most conservative on the list.
It can be pretty hard to use left/right for Israel. I mean, some of
my
Very interesting goings on in the Heart of Dixie.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/10/opinion/10TUE4.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fEditorials
or
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K18C25DE4
As the Bush administration and the religious right fight to put theology
more squarely
In a message dated 6/13/2003 12:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
What right did the UN have to tell Arabs how they would be governed, or
to take away their homes?
For whatever its worth; Palestine was part of the british empire after the breakup of
the Otomen Empire.
At 01:52 PM 6/11/2003 -0400 Jon Gabriel wrote:
When we removed the regime in power we were
in charge of law enforcement until a native police force could be
reestablished. It is obvious that the museums were inadequately secured and
they were our responsibility.
No, this is not obvious at
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 08:51:51PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When the Britain promished the Jews a state they were not dividing
a previously existent state they were giving the Jews part of the
Land they controlled. Now you can argue that the British and then the
allies had no right to
In a message dated 6/13/2003 3:25:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Well, I'm not Steve, but you're getting into what
might be the single most contentious issue in all of
historical research right now. I think one of Leon
Uris's novels actually does a really good job of
At 01:31 PM 6/11/2003 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You mean, you HOPE we will find them. I don't care either way.
I'm sorry, Tom, but I think that you are lying. You did not write your
two messages in this thread in a way that gives that impression that you,
quote, don't care either way.
In
At 09:59 PM 6/13/2003 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote:
I take comfort in the fact that politics on this list
are, to a large extent, politics inside the liberal
echo chamber.
Wow, we must either be on different lists, or one of us isn't very
perceptive.
I must be on Gautam's List. I've
At 09:53 AM 6/14/2003 -0500 Dan Minette wrote:
It has also got me wondering if Gautam thinks this list is liberal, what
he would think of the Culture list...
Where I am considered a right wing kook. :-)
That's o.k., I participate on a Catholic discussion List where I am
considered a flaming
At 10:38 PM 5/31/2003 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2) What is wrong with that strategy? It seems to me we are finally doing
what
is necessary to make the world a better place to live in, even if,
especially
if, you are a middle eastern Muslim. War is never the best way to solve
anything. I
At 11:50 PM 6/13/2003 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote:
Should the United States continue to give $150 million of American
taxpayers' money every year to Palestinian Arabs living in the
territories of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Palestinian Authority?
Yes Total 11.5 Rep. 10.9 Dem. 8.1 Ind. 18.6
No
On 14 Jun 2003 at 21:10, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 08:51:51PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When the Britain promished the Jews a state they were not dividing a
previously existent state they were giving the Jews part of the Land
they controlled. Now you can argue that
On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 03:14:52AM +0100, Andrew Crystall wrote:
There was nothing sudden about it - events leading up to it had been
going on for half a century. Perhaps WW2 gave it a final push, but
things were brewing WELL before that.
Are you suggesting that because the Palestinian Arabs
Before you go and trash this message, I would request that you read it to the
end.
Jeroen van Baardwijk has something he would like to say to this list.
I don't know what the rules are about this sort of thing, but I think that
you will agree that if there are such rules this should be the
On 14 Jun 2003 at 22:42, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 03:14:52AM +0100, Andrew Crystall wrote:
There was nothing sudden about it - events leading up to it had
been going on for half a century. Perhaps WW2 gave it a final push,
but things were brewing WELL before that.
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where I am considered a right wing kook. :-)
Dan M.
But, as you yourself would say, by the standards of
American politics, you're pretty far to the left.
A simple breakdown. The country as a whole split
essentially 50/50 Bush/Gore. What do you think
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I suspect a major reason that US conservatives back
Israel is that a major
component of US conservatives is the so-called
Christian Right who are
generally fairly fundamentalist Protestants who take
the Bible seriously
(if not literally), and
Andrew,
We don't seem to be communicating. I am trying to look at the situation
from the point of view of Palestinian Arabs living in the area that is
now Israel, in 1948, and how they might have thought about what happened
to them and their homes.
You are now the 3rd person that apparently
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where I am considered a right wing kook. :-)
Dan M.
But, as you yourself would say, by the standards of
American politics, you're pretty far to the left.
A simple breakdown. The country as a whole split
essentially 50/50
snip
That's all fine, but I'll make the big mistake here: he started it this time.
From Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:07:58 +0200
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: Jeroen van Baardwijk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Plonkworthy?
The listmember informed me that my intollerance was reminiscent of
At 09:30 PM 6/14/03 +0100, William T Goodall wrote:
On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 07:14 pm, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
I suspect a major reason that US conservatives back Israel is that a
major component of US conservatives is the so-called Christian Right
who are generally fairly fundamentalist
At 09:59 PM 6/13/03 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Wow, we must either be on different lists, or one of us isn't very
perceptive. Of the politically vocal Americans on the list*, I count
yourself, Georgis, Tarr, Cofey, Agretto and Cooper as well right of
center. Several others such as
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
_
¹Or is that right wing-nut?
Righteous wing-nut, maybe?
Doug
Just kidding, just kidding, don't start whistling.
8^)
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 11:01:24PM -0500, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Huh? I guess I don't know my Freud very well . . .
The generally accepted spelling is Israeli, not Isra-LIE
--
Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/
___
At 08:20 PM 6/14/2003 -0700, you wrote:
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where I am considered a right wing kook. :-)
Dan M.
But, as you yourself would say, by the standards of
American politics, you're pretty far to the left.
A simple breakdown. The country as a
Doug Pensinger wrote:
Deborah Harrell wrote:
grin
I'm vocally left in certain areas, but I don't
think
too many liberals own guns or support (at least
theoretically) the death penalty...
Just to be persnickety and try to defy labeling.
;)
Oh, I only mean left and right in a
At 09:03 PM 6/14/03 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
_
¹Or is that right wing-nut?
Righteous wing-nut, maybe?
Doug
Just kidding, just kidding, don't start whistling.
8^)
I can't whistle and laugh at the same time . . .
;-)
-- Ronn! :)
God bless America,
Land that
Doug Pensinger wrote:
It has also got me wondering if Gautam thinks this list is
liberal, what
he would think of the Culture list...
So far to the left as to be practically invisible :)
Ritu
GCU Speculations
___
--- Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snipped most
This page was generated in 1999. Anyone know what
it's about?
http://www.vavatch.co.uk/essays/iamvery.htm
Oh, it's Adrian Hon. I've heard of him.
LOL
Thanks for posting that!
But as I wasn't here then, I have no idea what it was
At 12:14 AM 6/15/03 -0400, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 11:01:24PM -0500, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Huh? I guess I don't know my Freud very well . . .
The generally accepted spelling is Israeli, not Isra-LIE
OK. I realized it was misspelled: I just wasn't looking for a double
Kevin wrote:
So because his name was mentioned, he has to start spamming people
NOT on
his normal mailing list.
Yep, he's right, it's all our fault.
Kevin T. - VRWC
Spare me.
I'm in agreement - the spamming wasn't started by anyone on this list.
I complained to his ISP only when he
So I'm sitting here at my computer, surfing, was listening to the radio
(Monsters of Rock syndicated show) and when that was over I was playing
some things on the 'puter. When I was bitching about work and internet
music streams, I was thinking I would have to take in a hundred CDs to get
At 10:50 PM 6/14/2003 -0500, you wrote:
At 09:59 PM 6/13/03 -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote:
Wow, we must either be on different lists, or one of us isn't very
perceptive. Of the politically vocal Americans on the list*, I count
yourself, Georgis, Tarr, Cofey, Agretto and Cooper as well right of
Jan Coffey wrote:
Fine, an occasional forward is not a problem, at least in my
opinion.
---
I'll leave you alone if you leave me alone. This means that you will
cease complaining to any and all companies I do business with (ISP's, hosting
Kevin Tarr wrote:
So I'm sitting here at my computer, surfing, was listening to the radio
(Monsters of Rock syndicated show) and when that was over I was playing
some things on the 'puter. When I was bitching about work and internet
music streams, I was thinking I would have to take in a
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