Ozz;468106 Wrote:
I may be Joe six-pak but I love my Transporter and I have little to
complain about (outside of the lack of 12vdc trigger... sorry had to
have my dig) This thing rocks!!!
As the owner of a Transporter, you are overqualified to be
joe-sixpack by definition :-).
I agree with
You know I really like Squeezecenter 7.4 or Squeezebox server what ever
they are calling it now. But if they are really making it more user
friendly for the casual users I would think that a manual showing all
the settings and how to make use of them would be a must. Maybe I've
been missing
very true. i'd like to see logitech write a series of wiki articles
that say given this data set, given these settings, here is the expected
result. the lack of such info causes a lot of problems.
--
MrSinatra
www.lion-radio.org
using:
sb2 sbc (my home) / sbr (parent's home) - w/sc 7.3.4b
Being everything to eveyone is not possible! Trying to do so will be the
end of the products. trying to be a solid reliable product is possible
IF there is a defined goal. I for one like the fact that SB is open
source. I also understand that at times this will lead to issues that
make some
DrNic;459482 Wrote:
I'm not sure I'm in on the Mr Sinatra ethos. Though it would seem that
Logi are already thinking of removing the unknown variable to make their
user experience a predictable one.
no need to be in on it, whatever logitch does will be beyond our
control, or anyone else
Philip Meyer;459494 Wrote:
Well, I didn't really agree with much of it, I'm afraid.
nothing to fear, but fear itself.
Philip Meyer;459494 Wrote:
My PC is left on most of the time, or has wake-on-LAN, so it makes sense
to use it to host music, rather than need to transfer music to another
Oki doki erland, will do.
And what of my thinning hair??? :)
--
toby10
toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66745
I didn't know that it worked like that. Some better help information should be
made to the Plugins page. Currently it only says:
You may add additional third-party extension repositories by entering the URL
for the repository below. A list of repository URLs can be found here.
where here is
Philip Meyer;459576 Wrote:
I tried it out - deleted a few repositories I had manually entered, and
more appeared under Other 3rd Party Plugins. Great. So I deleted some
more repositories that I didn't need any more, and now I don't have an
Other 3rd Party Plugins table at all :-(
I tried it out - deleted a few repositories I had manually entered, and
more appeared under Other 3rd Party Plugins. Great. So I deleted some
more repositories that I didn't need any more, and now I don't have an
Other 3rd Party Plugins table at all :-(
Sounds like a bug
I removed a
I *love* the Extension Downloader (ED) feature!! Particularly since
being a Radio Touch beta tester where updating SC is a much more
frequent necessity and updating my chosen plugins manually and (almost)
daily would have been a hair pulling experience (and I have little to
spare).
But, I do
toby10;459633 Wrote:
But, I do see two areas where the ED could be improved.
Could you please make sure to post these ideas in the beta section or
register them as enhancement requests, they are too good to get lost in
this thread in the General section.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson
'My
Logitech employees,
my comments come from someone who is glad you acquired slim devices.
while i am sad to see sean and dean go, and see no gain by their
leaving, i think in the long run logitech will create a group of
products that will get cheaper and better due to logitechs mass market
d'oh... one other thing i forgot to mention...
with such a device, SN could always make your local music available to
you wherever you get access to SN. so if you're away from home, just go
to SN to get to your tunes. additionally, the device itself could be
reached via the proposed social
Philip Meyer;458857 Wrote:
I still find Extension Downloader awkward for example. i.e. needing to
manually configure third-party repositories to find extra plugins, and
then the plugin screen becomes rather crowded with tables.
Hasn't this been solved in 7.4 ?
If you check the checkbox
Hasn't this been solved in 7.4 ?
No.
If you check the checkbox to indicate that you allow third party
plugins you should get a single list with all third party plugins that
isn't officially recommended by Logitech.
That only gives you some - the ones that have been suggested by the community
Did you ever notice that Logitech employees clam up when a thread
starts getting close to actual product plans? :) Although, it's not
looking quite like you envision, Mr.Sinatra.
We really, really, can't talk about it, but we are definitely keeping
these issues in mind as we move forward.
Chris,
thats great. but how about suggestion number 1? basically the idea SC
should have an equal to Windows Customer Experience Improvement
Program where the app collects usage data and sends it to logitech,
etc?
--
MrSinatra
www.lion-radio.org
using:
sb2 sbc (my home) / sbr (parent's
I'll get someone more involved with product definition and strategy to
have a look at the thread for that one. :)
--
ChrisOwens
Christopher Owens
QA Manager
ch...@slimdevices.com
ChrisOwens's Profile:
Philip Meyer;459392 Wrote:
Hasn't this been solved in 7.4 ?
No.
If you check the checkbox to indicate that you allow third party
plugins you should get a single list with all third party plugins
that
isn't officially recommended by Logitech.
That only gives you some - the ones that
Nice post with some interesting ideas. I was right there with you
until..
MrSinatra;459332 Wrote:
i look at my SB2 and wonder why i need to have a computer turned on to
use it with local music. it simply no longer makes sense to do that.
so this was a long post, but i really think
iPhone;459441 Wrote:
Nice post with some interesting ideas. I was right there with you
until..
my quote
The Radio and Touch are Smart devices (the Controller with minimum
resources). All Squeezeboxes prior are Dumb devices and that is why
they need a Server whether it is SC locally
I'm not sure I'm in on the Mr Sinatra ethos. Though it would seem that
Logi are already thinking of removing the unknown variable to make their
user experience a predictable one.
I have always lagged behind on the server front. Why? - because until I
HAVE to change (because a new device now
Well, I didn't really agree with much of it, I'm afraid.
My PC is left on most of the time, or has wake-on-LAN, so it makes sense to use
it to host music, rather than need to transfer music to another piece of kit
(NAS, USB Disk, etc). It's nice that Players can connect direct to internet to
If you have checked the Show all 3rd party plugins checkbox in the
Plugins tab you shouldn't need to specify any of the repositories listed
on the wiki. This checkbox will include these repositories automatically
and put them in a Other 3rd party plugins list.
I have the Show all 3rd party
Philip Meyer;459500 Wrote:
I have the Show all 3rd party plugins checkbox ticked. No idea which
ones that gives me, what table title they are listed under, etc, as
there's not been much announcement or documentation explaining it.
I assumed that setting only controlled the recommended 3rd
erland;459406 Wrote:
If you have checked the Show all 3rd party plugins checkbox in the
Plugins tab you shouldn't need to specify any of the repositories listed
on the wiki. This checkbox will include these repositories automatically
and put them in a Other 3rd party plugins list.
peterw;458737 Wrote:
Except for UPNP client support, you've just described Squeezebox Touch.
I hadn't looked at the new products until you mentioned it. It looks
like a very nice device.
--
DrewSB
DrewSB's Profile:
I am relatively new to Squeezeboxes after getting frustrated trying to
get my Tivo to serve as a reliable music player. I now have a Squeezebox
2 and a Boom, and have been very happy with both.
There are a few things about them that I think should be resolved for a
mass market product:
1. The
DrewSB;458691 Wrote:
There are a few things about them that I think should be resolved for a
mass market product: ...
Except for UPNP client support, you've just described Squeezebox
Touch.
Take away the USB port embedded SqueezeCenter, and you've got
Squeezebox Radio -- shifts between SC
Interesting thread - The rationale behind alot of the posts is
understandable, but the questions are far simpler (to me).
First, I love my squeezeboxes - they have been a wonderful part of my
life for many years now. But as a Joe Sixpack, I want to know how my
Boom, SB3, and classic are going
bolfings;458843 Wrote:
Maybe there needs to be a 2 track SC development - an open source
release that can be available to those who choose to pursue it, modify
it, customize it, and deal with the problems that come with it - and a
more closed source option that runs on Windows and OSX,
It seems to me that the developers haven't been communicating as much recently.
I think there's been a lot of discussions between beta testers about new
features or changes to existing features, with very little feedback from
logitech developers.
In the last few months it feels like the
I have 8 Classics, 3 Booms, 2 SB2s, 1 SB-Reciever and 2 SB-Controllers
running on my network. I still have a Slimp3 tucket away, but only use
it to impress the ladies :)
When I bought my Duet, I never attached the Reciever to the network. I
never tried. The Reciever attached now is at a friends
erland;451542 Wrote:
I think you have to learn to not listen to the community in all
situations. Of course, this isn't easy because to make the community
stay they also need to feel that you listen to them.
This can be one of the most difficult things for a company to do: to
prioritize the
Are not things better than they *apear* to be:
*They are developing at least 2 new products, that we know of trough
leaks.
*They are doing several big changes in the UI which is obvious when you
are trying the newest controller beta.
*They are developing a completely new UI for the
pfarrell;451545 Wrote:
erland wrote:
However, IMHO SqueezeCenter isn't the typical open source project.
There is a huge difference when a company makes all decisions and
the
decisions are based on what reaches the company strategy and gives
economical results in the end.
I'm not so
It's all about getting and spreading passion. Whether it's people like
Chris, working on a Sunday (Hey, stop that!) or the thoughtful postings
from people like Erland and others. Comments are offered because people
care.
Chris, you'll know you're in the middle of the spectrum when you're
getting
My first squeezebox was the Duet and it was a lot of trouble the first
year or so. I really hated it, if you only knew how much time I have
spent trying to sort it out (I really should have sent it back).
But I hoped the problems would be solved eventually and they were
(7.3.3). But I must admit
All the points that everyone has brought up, they *are* real problems
for us and we (mostly) know it. At least a few times a week, for
instance, we make decisions including the consideration that we want the
community to continue helping us and being involved in testing new
software/products and
All well and good Chris, but short of turning complete operation of
your company over to the forums-most-vocal, it will be insufficient.
Sorry.
Ben
___
discuss mailing list
discuss@lists.slimdevices.com
I originally bought my Squeezebox duet so I could play it through my
Musical Fidelity X-DAC-v3 quad stack (power supply, DAC, tube buffer,
headphone amp). The MF DAC has auto-input sensing. However, since the
duets outputs are never completely zero, the DAC always senses an input
even when the
I hope you don't mind, I ran a couple sections of your post through
Babelfish...
ChrisOwens;451426 Wrote:
It seems sometimes like there's a clear trade-off between
closed-source, reliable, limited, friendly products and those that are
open-source, unreliable, hacker-friendly, but
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am under no illusions that our products are
as high-quality as Apple's.
I was trying to say that I don't think in order to have a high-quality
easy-to-use product that it's necessary that we stop being open source
or hacker-friendly.
--
ChrisOwens
Christopher
I agree!
Apple has it's issues - it's certainly not like their products are
problem free. When my wife got her 2G 8GB nano, it had the lovely bug
that the on-the-go playlist didn't work. Yes, they fixed the problem
eventually, but it was certainly very annoying since that was a feature
we used
ChrisOwens;451496 Wrote:
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am under no illusions that our products are
as high-quality as Apple's.
Compare like with like. A Squeezebox _is_ higher quality than an
Airport Express, however you measure it. When Logitech/SD start making
laptops, then we can compare
ChrisOwens;451426 Wrote:
It seems sometimes like there's a clear trade-off between
closed-source, reliable, limited, friendly products and those that are
open-source, unreliable, hacker-friendly, but user-hostile.
It's all about who decides what to do and how to do it.
In many open
erland wrote:
However, IMHO SqueezeCenter isn't the typical open source project.
There is a huge difference when a company makes all decisions and the
decisions are based on what reaches the company strategy and gives
economical results in the end.
I'm not so sure. FireFox is open source, but
dsdreamer;450537 Wrote:
Well not much is in a name, but the overall user experience goes well
beyond the UI. And being a -director- of that overall user experience
would allow someone to call the shots across a cross-functional team and
to be the voice of the customer as regards things like
Joe Sixpack listens to his ipod on a JBL speaker dock and considers it
high end. He's not going to pay more than $100 for anything which
streams, and it better do video at that price.
If Joe Sixpack has an iPod with tons of music, then he's not the same Joe
somebody else described (the guy
Great posting, Erland.
There isn't a specification that describes how it is supposed to work,
much of the functionality seems to be in the head of different people.
Logitech SMBU isn't SlimDevices any more. At the time there were Sean,
Dean and a few enthusiasts. They did the hardware, the
But then new product sales are better money than improved quality in
already sold devices
People here always use Apple as a great example of producing Joe
Sixpack friendly systems.
Maybe you should follow Apple and monetise upgrades by charging $10 for
SqueezeCenter 8?
--
amcluesent
JOE SIXPACK:
Read some of the Amazon customer reviews of SD/Logitech players, some
are quite funny. A few paraphrased examples:
- ...it doesn't work with WiFi like my computer does...
- ..why would I pay $299 for a Boom when I can buy a used laptop and
add speakers...
- ..to get radio Music
mherger;450323If Joe Sixpack has an iPod with tons of music, then he's not the
same Joe
somebody else described (the guy who can't rip a CD, pirate some MP3
files, buy music online).
[/quote Wrote:
I think that's a key insight. Joe Sixpack is actually lots of different
people, and you
Excellent aspiration. Very hard to do.
I noticed thet Sonos has a Design Director for User Experience in the
recent demo video they posted: http://www.sonos.com/demo/demo.aspx
Does Logitech SMBU have an equivalent role?
--
dsdreamer
--
Dreamer, easy in the chair that
I noticed thet Sonos has a Design Director for User Experience in the
recent demo video they posted: http://www.sonos.com/demo/demo.aspx
Does Logitech SMBU have an equivalent role?
Hehe... titles, names...
Juliet:
What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as
mherger;450446 Wrote:
Hehe... titles, names...
Juliet:
What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.
So... our man's called Senior User Interface Designer
--
Michael
Well not much is in a name, but the overall user experience goes well
As a former product manager for consumer electronics devices myself, I
generally agree with Moonbeam's assessment, and I commend him for having
the gumption to post it, knowing he'd catch some flak.
In my view, a key problem with open source software is that the techies
develop it for their own
TiredLegs;450224 Wrote:
As a former product manager for consumer electronics devices myself, I
generally agree with Moonbeam's assessment, and I commend him for having
the gumption to post it, knowing he'd catch some flak.
In my view, a key problem with open source software is that the
Matt Wise;450226 Wrote:
Excuse me ... but how do we not provide a good experience already for
the average user?
Matt,
The point you're missing from my post is that your average existing
user isn't the average potential buyer (unless the only buyers you want
are your existing users). It has
Matt Wise;450226 Wrote:
Excuse me ... but how do we not provide a good experience already for
the average user?
The release of the Duet comes to mind. My original SliMP3 gets daily
use while the Duet resides in my sock drawer.
--
Pale Blue Ego
Tired Legs - Good comments, I agree. Same to Moonbase (relative to his
general comments).
Similar comments describing a seemingly disinterested attitude
concerning the Joe Sixpack market segment (the largest portion of the
potential market, by the way) have been made before. And, I recall, were
Goodsounds;450255 Wrote:
Tired Legs - Good comments, I agree. Same to Moonbase (relative to his
general comments).
Similar comments describing a seemingly disinterested attitude
concerning the Joe Sixpack market segment (the largest portion of the
potential market, by the way) have been
TiredLegs;450224 Wrote:
In my view, a key problem with open source software is that the techies
develop it for their own desires, not those of Joe and Jane Sixpack who
don't give a rats a** about SQLite vs. MySQL. The masses just want
something that works well (even if it has a few bugs),
Goodsounds;450255 Wrote:
Tired Legs - Good comments, I agree. Same to Moonbase (relative to his
general comments).
Similar comments describing a seemingly disinterested attitude
concerning the Joe Sixpack market segment (the largest portion of the
potential market, by the way) have been
Joe Sixpack listens to his ipod on a JBL speaker dock and considers it
high end. He's not going to pay more than $100 for anything which
streams, and it better do video at that price.
Thinking that the only way to make a profit is to target your product
to the lowest common denominator is a
There is plenty of room in the market between $100 Airport Express
clients used as Airtunes endpoints, and a Sonus or even Meridian/Soloos
system if it comes to high end.
The positioning of Logitech / Slim products is fine by me in terms of
price point.
What is less clear to me is whether this
With SC as large as it is and with all it can do and users asking for
more, at this point it is almost impossible to catch everything that
could/might/are affected by a Code change. Can you image Slim Devices
trying to do what they do without the Forum and the Beta user community?
With all the
iPhone;450298 Wrote:
With SC as large as it is and with all it can do and users asking for
more, at this point it is almost impossible to catch everything that
could/might/are affected by a Code change.
I'm glad the software people at Boeing and Airbus don't have this
attitude! ;-)
C'mon,
iPhone;450298 Wrote:
With SC as large as it is and with all it can do and users asking for
more, at this point it is almost impossible to catch everything that
could/might/are affected by a Code change. Can you image Slim Devices
trying to do what they do without the Forum and the Beta user
iPhone;450298 Wrote:
With SC as large as it is and with all it can do and users asking for
more, at this point it is almost impossible to catch everything that
could/might/are affected by a Code change. Can you image Slim Devices
trying to do what they do without the Forum and the Beta
Having read the comments made in this thread I'm inclined to agree with
the spirit of the intial post. I'll repeat what I posted in the beta
forum a while back: Looking at the 8.0/1 roadmap I don't see the software
making any
significant functional strides. It seems to me that there are two
Mnyb;449700 Wrote:
Point, if an average joe with no programing skills can poke holes in
software in 5 minutes, it can not have been tested properly.
Or it was tested properly, the bugs were found, but someone said
release it anyway. I'm not saying that happened in this case, but it
happens
radish;449878 Wrote:
Or it was tested properly, the bugs were found, but someone said
release it anyway. I'm not saying that happened in this case, but it
happens all the time with software releases (and is often justifiable to
be honest). There are always bugs, it comes down to what you
I'm sure the powers that be must have good reasons for switching from
MySQL to SQLite, but a few years ago (back around 2005/6) SlimServer
went the other way: switched from SQLite to MySQL. I reckon there must
have been very good reasons to make that switch at the time.
What were those reasons,
rtitmuss wrote:
We will be moving to SQLite in a future release of SqueezeCenter,
probably 8.0. This change is being made to improve performance,
especially on NASes and similar devices. It was decided that the SQLite
changes will not be complete for the 7.4 release, which is why we
reverted
cliveb;449385 Wrote:
I'm sure the powers that be must have good reasons for switching from
MySQL to SQLite, but a few years ago (back around 2005/6) SlimServer
went the other way: switched from SQLite to MySQL. I reckon there must
have been very good reasons to make that switch at the time.
The 'why' for most of our decisions can be found in the Developer and
Beta forums. I suggest that if anyone is curious to why we've made
certain architectural decisions, you check there first.
--
Matt Wise
Matt Wise's
I didn't understand the rant, until I read downthread and found out it's
about a beta release. I still don't understand the point of ranting
about a beta release, since one would normally expect problems (else why
become a beta tester?), but the Beta forum does seem like a more
appropriate place
Goodsounds;449256 Wrote:
One company employee says that the focus is to be more friendly to
average joes. I agree with this, it's the market potential the company
needs to serve better. It's also the biggest growth opportunity.
Another says the changes are to make the software perform
peterw;449366 Wrote:
7.3 has been very good to me. 7.4, not so much, but then I usually avoid
running the betas anywhere other than my development system until public
release seems imminent. I, too, wish there was more guidance about where
things are headed. I think communicating plans and
erland;449502 Wrote:
Well, you can't blame Logitech for this.
They provide the database abstraction layer because it contained all
functionality they needed for the server implementation. You can't
really expect them to make an abstraction layer to cover every possible
usage.
Oh, no I
snarlydwarf wrote:
The backend db for anything (whether it is SC/SBServer/SS/whatever) is
almost always a religious issue.
For sure. And the vendors of the DBMS love to sucker you into using
their special extra cool feature.
Writing code to transparently swap between two packages is not all
However, I also understand the reasons. It takes time and effort to
communicate with the third party developers and if you need to
prioritize between fixing a bug to reach a release date or help a third
party developer the prioritization is pretty easy.
Excellent point. One good approach to
mherger;449599 Wrote:
One good approach to improve your chance to get an answer is to keep
postings short and clear
I know, I suspect long posts sometimes tends to be ignored because no
one has the time to read through all the text. It feels wrong to post
many small threads instead of
my 2c/
If I'm going to volunteer some time to beta testing, the beta has to be
somewhat functional as I only have one server/image no special test
system to play around with.
This has been the norm for the last 2 years, the dev's have been slowly
introducing new things bugs get found and sorted,
In all earnestness, I start seeing the SqueezeBox product range go
down the wrong path. Having been a product manager myself for a long
time, I hear the alarm bells shrill for quite some time now.
As a developer, being enthusiastic for some time, I'm constantly losing
interest in cooperation,
Moonbase;449092 Wrote:
The product itself (Duet and the Controller, mainly) keeps getting more
unusable with every update -- one starts getting anxious (What will
break this time?) instead of happily anticipating things getting better
and more usable -- and being able to USE it for what
maggior;449159 Wrote:
After reading this (and some other posts) I cringe. The controller FW
is one area that has definitely required stabilization over time, and it
has. I suspect I'll be staying on 7.3.3 for a long time! At least I
have that option. I wonder why there has been such an
I share Moonbase's feelings also... specially this point... There is no
clear path where to go. What are the goals, where is the target
market?. The move to SQLite (possibly to accommodate the new product
line) and then back to MySQL completely left the existing MySQL users,
like myself,
It looks like recently there was another personnel shakeup at the
Logitech SMBU, and I'm afraid it isn't budget related this time. No
doubt someone overseeing the unit is feeling many of the same issues.
https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3383
The retreat from pushing the SQLite
We will be moving to SQLite in a future release of SqueezeCenter,
probably 8.0. This change is being made to improve performance,
especially on NASes and similar devices. It was decided that the SQLite
changes will not be complete for the 7.4 release, which is why we
reverted back to MySQL at the
JJZolx;449204 Wrote:
It looks like recently there was another personnel shakeup at the
Logitech SMBU, and I'm afraid it isn't budget related this time. No
doubt someone overseeing the unit is feeling many of the same issues.
https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3383
I saw this
rtitmuss;449205 Wrote:
We will be moving to SQLite in a future release of SqueezeCenter,
probably 8.0. This change is being made to improve performance,
especially on NASes and similar devices. It was decided that the SQLite
changes will not be complete for the 7.4 release, which is why we
Moonbase;449092 Wrote:
In all earnestness, I start seeing the SqueezeBox product range go
down the wrong path. Having been a product manager myself for a long
time, I hear the alarm bells shrill for quite some time now.
As a developer, being enthusiastic for some time, I'm constantly
I've been using the SB for a few years. I love it when it works. But I
would never recommend it to anyone, at least not without a long list of
caveats. These last few years have been full of frustrations and
opportunities to keep my vocabulary of expletives well tuned.
That being said, I do have
One company employee says that the focus is to be more friendly to
average joes. I agree with this, it's the market potential the company
needs to serve better. It's also the biggest growth opportunity.
Another says the changes are to make the software perform better on
NASes and other smaller
Most average joes I know (and I'm one too) don't have or use NASes.
When they do, it's for storage, not for running apps. Has someone really
convinced themselves that this deserves a development focus?
I'm adding a third employee's voice: we've had too many complaints about
SC being a memory
regalma1;449250 Wrote:
I've been using the SB for a few years. I love it when it works. But I
would never recommend it to anyone, at least not without a long list of
caveats.
I was actually starting to feel this way. I tried to talk my brother
into getting an SB3, but he insisted on the
Hi there,
I'm relatively new to SqueezeCenter and just want put in my two cents:
- I'm an owner of a squeezebox-duet and don't regret my purchase. It's
exactly what I expected - and having a 7.3.3-firmware from beginning I
didn't feel any glitches. All the basic function were really easy to set
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