Re: [eug-lug]TV input cards
On Thursday 26 February 2004 12:48 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : Mr O wrote: : Actually, for KBob's needs, the audio should be coming off the : satellite box so tuner and sound capabilities of the TV card are : of no concern. : : Actually, KBob should clarify KBob's needs. What a thought! : : I have a few use scenarios in mind. : : One is for debugging TiVos. In this scenario, I ditch the TV and hook : up the TiVo's video and audio output to the PC. I make the window : very small most of the time (basically I just want to see whether it's : booting/playing live TV/in menus). Sometimes I need to listen to the : audio, but audio through the sound card is fine. that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do! Ive used my tv tuner card with my old c-64, and c-64 simulator at the same time... it was something to do... : : Another is for the kitchenputer. In this scenario, the computer : screen is used as a TV. A TiVo (or a very long cord from a TiVo in : another room) is the source. Audio through the motherboard sound is : fine. nice... why not wireless? seems to me a laptop with wireless and touch screen would be optimal for that scenario. : : A third is video capture. Capture the current TV show to a disk file. : In this scenario, audio is needed, A/V quality is important, and A/V : sync is important. A TiVo or another DIRECTV receiver is the source. : : Once I find a decent card at a decent price, I'll probably buy more : than one. There are a lot of inexpensive cards that will work fine. I have 2 cards, only one of which works in linux (the other is really old). I have a cheapo $50 unit that will do everything you need, and even comes with a remote conrol. bt chipsets have been supported for years, and it seems to be whats on most tv tuners these days. i dont have, but have heard the ati cards are pretty sweet, but the good ones are well over $100 (last i checked). my (bt based) tuner card was pretty easy to setup, once i had the right settings... heres what i have in my /etc/modules.conf alias char-major-81 bttv #pre-install bttvmodprobe -k tuner #options bttvradio=0 card=38 #options tuner type=8type=8 then all i need to do is load the bttv module (modprobe bttv), and launch tv app (xawtv). in my case, I can only do one of the 2 modes (overlay/preview) cant remember which... anyway the issue isnt linux, its incompatibility with crappy video card (DVD Playback sucks because of this too...) Jamie -- Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX. -- Stephan Zielinski ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Not Linux Related, Assembly Related
On Monday 16 February 2004 08:41 am, nyal wrote: : Sorry folks, guess I'm a bit behind the times and kinda old school. I do : still have a floppy drive that I use with my Sony Mavica. Didn't realize : that floppies were as dead as the 5 1/4 disks of yesteryear (the really : floppy floppies). But the flippy-floppy (8) was the really floppy. Man... I remember when we upgraded from 8 floppy to 1 Meg hard disk.. that was sweet :) I remeber purchassing my first floppy drive (floppy drives(non-linear) were much much nicer than thier alternateve (cassette tape drive, completely linear), the drive actually cost more than the computer, but was way worth it! That was a long time ago, and ive grown to hate floppys. They often like to disapoint me. I lost my crusty old digital camera, found a new one onsale, it uses CF cards, and I still have my CF adapter from the old camera. I found some 256MB cards at costco for $50 each, and together they hold almost a full cdrom of data, so I can take a buttload of pictures (1024 frames, or about 1/2 hour of video), and when not using the camera, I can use the cards to xfer data and stuff... one card holds almost 200 times more data, and is extreemly fast compared to floppy. One of these days, I'll work on booting the system from a 256mb card, hopefully by summer. Completely diskless laptop sounds pretty apealing :) : : I also forgot to mention that there is an ISO for *nix folks on the d/l : page but they're calling it a diskette image. : : Nyal : : You have a floppy drive? : : Five years ago, Apple said that the floppy was dead technology and that : people would be burning CDs instead, even for small files, because the : CDs were cheaper than the floppies already. hmmm.. well, If infact anything like that was said, they may be right, but probably not for the reasons they state. I would say network(especially wireless) and ram based storage media (such as CF, mem stick, ...) technologies would both be major factors (if not more important). : : People laughed at Apple. Most new PCs today no longer feature floppy : drives unless you add it as an extra feature--a feature which is steadily : becoming more expensive and harder to find quality media in quantity. : Amusing. =) yeah... My newest lappy has no floppy, you can get an external floppy for $50, but bleh.. i hate floppies. regarding people laughing at apple... I guess its just a conditioned reflex. : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot of different places, just write a Unix operating system. -- Linus Torvalds ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Slackware install on Averatec Laptop...
Its a Intel Mobile 1.3G Centrino CPU, not sure about the mainboard chipset, My guess is intel (the video and I/O, ethernet, wireless are all intel. I have the 5110 model (the big one) not the little one... the big one was on sale, so I got it insead of the nice little 12 one... So far I like it... it was a hassle getting linux and windows on it, but that isnt a hardware issue, its how thier system restore works (wipes the entire disk instead of the partition...) The issue after that is the NTFS resize issue. I managed to resize the partiton by using a usb ram stick, and Knoppix CD ( I put the NTFS tools on ramstick, and booted knoppix, compiled the tools under knoppix, then ran ntfsresize -s 20G /dev/hda1 (which turns the 40G NTFS filesystem into a 20G partition. After that, I had to use (linux) fdisk to remove /dev/hda1, and add /dev/hda1 (20G), /dev/hda2 (swap), /dev/hda3 (slack root). After that you reboot, and test your windows partion and make sure its ok (well... as ok as windows could be), then reboot and install slack as per usual... Jamie Ben Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't that use a via c3 chipset? As I understand it, most modern binaries will not run on the via c3, since it lacks MMX, 3DNow, and SSE extensions. I'm not sure that I'm correctly recalling the averatech laptop's details I think my mini-itx board is waiting for me at home, hopefully I'll have it ready to bring to a meeting next week (if the case arrives in time!). regards, Ben On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:39:55 -0800 Linux Rocks! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I'm planning on bringing a new laptop to the meeting tonite... It has | windows XP on it, and I want to put SLackware on it too (ive installed | slackware on it once, but didnt get much chance to mess with it before | Averatec's XP restore utility wiped the entire disk (bad restore | utility!) | So... The trick it gettting this computer to work with both Linux and | Windows seems to be putting windows on first, then resizing the NTFS | partition, then installing slackware on the newly unused space. I've | downloaded the stuff I should need, maybe (with some help...) I can get | slackware on the lappy tonite :) | | Jamie ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]Slackware install on Averatec Laptop...
I'm planning on bringing a new laptop to the meeting tonite... It has windows XP on it, and I want to put SLackware on it too (ive installed slackware on it once, but didnt get much chance to mess with it before Averatec's XP restore utility wiped the entire disk (bad restore utility!) So... The trick it gettting this computer to work with both Linux and Windows seems to be putting windows on first, then resizing the NTFS partition, then installing slackware on the newly unused space. I've downloaded the stuff I should need, maybe (with some help...) I can get slackware on the lappy tonite :) Jamie ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]Microsoft spam...
So, I just got some spam from what apears to be microsoft. To the best of my knowlege, ive never given them any of my email addy's, however the address the spiced ham was sent to is the one I use for my linux list administration (available via web archives, any mail sent to the list from non-subbed users, and subscription pages...). I have to wonder if the guy from microsoft that asked lugs about how M$ can improve their products has anything to do with this? From the headers I can see this: mh.microsoft.m0.net (mh.microsoft.m0.net [209.11.164.116]) and envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED] dig shows this about m0.net m0.net. 7200IN SOA ns4.merchantmail.net.dnsadmin.digitalimpact.com Any Ideas on if this is a bonifide microsoft mailing or not? Jamie -- Waving away a cloud of smoke, I look up, and am blinded by a bright, white light. It's God. No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God. In a booming voice, He says: THIS IS A SIGN. USE LINUX, THE FREE UNIX SYSTEM FOR THE 386. -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]I'm back!
On Saturday 03 January 2004 03:45 am, Bob Miller wrote: : Larry Price wrote: : Anyway, all systems are operational again. When we got to town this : evening, we bought a chainsaw. Next time, we'll be prepared. : : You do realize that you are now officially an Oregonian. : : What??? I wasn't an Oregonian before, just because I didn't have a : chainsaw? Had I known, I would have bought one in Ashland on the way : in. If you dont have a chainsaw on your keyring, next to your bike lock key, and your earth first key tag, then your just not an oregonian. sorry... Seriously thougth... weird things like one calamaty after another is rather normal in oregon... Im just surprised you didnt have any events when blasting the tree peices out of your driveway! Jamie : : Does Anne need her own saw, or are we both covered by the one I : bought? -- We are Pentium of Borg. Division is futile. You will be approximated. -- seen in someone's .signature ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]regarding getting dumped
On a simular, and not completely unrelated subject Someone posted this to another list Im on: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/01/02/personal.server.ap/index.html 2 things I noticed about this backup computer are: 1) it doesnt acually support linux (works with win 2000, and XP) 2) file size limit of 2.1GB(claimed a linux limit) is that acurate? On Saturday 03 January 2004 01:50 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : Thanks for all the feedback! I would have replied sooner but for : some reason didn't get that particular list digest. : : Anyways, I think the two pass behavior Hal mentioned is the best : reason _not_ to use 'dump' - inode errors can't be a good thing. : I've got a 20 GB drive an old AT box lying around doing nothing : so I think I might look into setting up AMANDA or something similar. : Its overkill but as long as it doesn't involve almanacs I should : be OK, eh? : : Cheers, : Beaker : -- : [ SiMpLe MaChInEs ] -- gopher://beaker.mdns.org :or (via proxy) : http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw.lite?gopher://beaker.mdns.org:70/1 : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- SomeLamer what's the difference between chattr and chmod? SomeGuru SomeLamer: man chattr 1; man chmod 2; diff -u 1 2 | less -- Seen on #linux on irc ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Zero Wiping, partition table resurrection
On Monday 29 December 2003 09:13 am, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 11:47:31PM -0800, Larry Price wrote: : This is kind of a borderline question; : : A disk was intentionally zero'd out using : : dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda well... this writes 0's to every bit on the disk right? I would say that you wont be able to recover anything on the disk. The only way you could get anything is from latent image of the previous state of each bit... might want to contact the DoD, they *may* have a utility for such tasks, but i cant think of anyone that would... : : however the DOS fdisk utility couldn't rebuild the partition table : afterwards. what partition table... presumably that got zeroed too! : : Generally speaking some fdisk programs really can't cope with that. I : thought the DOS one could. I know that if the disk isn't screwy, cfdisk : will be able to fix it. not necessarily, but usually... : : A zeroing should not affect the low-level format because from the : perspective of zeroing the drive, you're operating at a logical level : rather than a physical level. well... that is a large part of what a lowlevel format does. another major part of a LLF is the interleave, set that wrong (or the geometry!), and really really nasty things happen. : : A poorly kept secret is that HDs have things like bad sectors all the time : and that the drives themselves have known for ages how to recognize : sectors that are going bad before they do. When this happens, they : silently reroute your bits to unused sectors they do not advertise as : actually being available. This screws with things like interleaving, but : nobody interleaves for a speed boost anymore. (Why? RAID finally really : does mean inexpensive disks...) Anyway, you only see bad blocks when the : drive runs out of spare sectors. True, those are called reserve sectors, typicly drives have 1% reserve sectors to replace bad sectors on the fly... I dont understand how this effects interleaving... As i understand it, Interelaving is the space between the tracks (or is that cylinders). Anyway... : : In order to pull this off transparently, the PC needs a very different : picture of the drive than the drive electronics get. The PC sees a : virtualized disk, much the way Linux applications believe that they have : some 3 gigs of memory, regardless of how much RAM and swap you actually : have. Writing to the Linux memory space, or to the drive's virtual space, : has little or no real effect on the low-level representation of what's : actually stored on the platters or in the DRAM latch matrices. : : Low-level formats of drives are scary undertakings. Usually when I've : needed to do it, it was because the drive was damaged. Usually, the : reformat doesn't help matters even a little bit. Just a word of warning. Ive done this many times... its really not so scary if you use the right tools... I think Ive broken 1 out of 50 drives or so, and ive recoverd the other 49 (ok, some of those drives only worked for a day or so, but many lived happy lives for many years following...) You can use older bios low level formatting if you know all the right settings.. letting it guess can be risky though... I recommed using manufacturers LLF utility over bios LLF utilities. Jamie : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- I once witnessed a long-winded, month-long flamewar over the use of mice vs. trackballs... It was very silly. -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]multimedia puzzle...
So, I have a couple weird problems, both unrelated... I have avi files that will not open under windows media player. This is really perplexing as avi's are basicly a much of .bmp's and wav file. Both .bmp and .wav are windows file formats, so I would assume any avi should play on any windows machine. File says: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI But mplayer plays them fine, but windows media player wont. all it does is try to find the codec (says looking up codec server), then fails, then plays audio only. The other multimedia related issue... I have an avi file, plays fine on one linux computer. I ftp it to another computer (using gftp, binary transfer, passive mode). On the other computer it will not play! File outputs the same info on both computers. i ftp the file back to the original computer (same gftp and settings). the file back on the original computer (but not the same file, the original file is long gone by now...) will not play either, mplayer says something about no video... and rtc problem). As a side note, I noticed that file date was a day in advance after the first ftp, and checking both machines showed the correct date. What programs do you use for ftp? For the longest time, gftp was the only gui ftp client I could find. Now Ive found kbear, I tried it a couple weeks ago, and it seemed ok... I think I'll put it on one of my boxen and try it out again... I was quite surprised to boot up knoppix and find no gui ftp client (man that knoppix has everything except a gui ftp client!). oh yeah..one more thing Happy Hollidays :) Jamie -- panic(Fod fight!); -- In the kernel source aha1542.c, after detecting a bad segment list ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
That is so funny! I was just about to post a message saying something like that! It turned out that the sound laptop I had recently installed everything on did actually have the sound card setup correctly, it was just the volume was turned off. So... so far slackware setup and configured everything correctly in this laptop. this is also true of Knoppix, Knoppix actually runs pretty well right from the cd. Thanks for the tip on the alsa gui mixer, Ill look for that. I often just use rexima (console mixer) Jamie On Wednesday 24 December 2003 06:25 am, nyal wrote: : Gotta say THANK YOU!! to all the list members that replied to my : post(s) about my SoundBlaster Live card. Read (and reread) the posts (and : the gentle flames from KBOB and Jamie), did a little research on the WWW : and stumbled onto the ALSA Gui Mixer..Seems that all volumes are muted : by default (why, I don't know) but once I turned up the master : volume...Voila!! I'm listening to the Topeka KS Police Dept on XMMS!! : Maybe someday I'll get the time off work to make a meeting and meet the : faces behind the names. : : Again, many many THANKS! : : Nyal R. Cammack : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : The Force is like Duct Tape.It has a light side, a dark side, and it : holds the universe together! : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Waving away a cloud of smoke, I look up, and am blinded by a bright, white light. It's God. No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God. In a booming voice, He says: THIS IS A SIGN. USE LINUX, THE FREE UNIX SYSTEM FOR THE 386. -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]XP/smc pcmcia nic woes...
So... I spent a week trying to get a pcmcia nic working in XP. it wasnt ever going to work... I spent a few hours, and installed win98, and Slackware, and both work fine (although everything but the sound worked right out of the box in slack, windows 98 required downloading several drivers, and am now spending a couple hours of updating windows). All in all, id say XP didnt offer anything helpful, and didnt work with a critical peiced of hardware. Slackware was by far the easiest to install on this laptop. Jamie -- ...very few phenomena can pull someone out of Deep Hack Mode, with two noted exceptions: being struck by lightning, or worse, your *computer* being struck by lightning. -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]winxp lappy woes...
So... I havnt had a lot of time to mess with this lappy yet, but these are the things Ive tried: original drivers for the smc 8020 pcmcia network card. no luck... different drivers (8022) no luck. Booting knoppix (boots, runs great, detects/loads my network). sadly it wont let me write to the ntfs (winxp) partition! I think Im going to have to resort to floppy disks and juno free internet to get the network (if winxp even supports this device at all!). Or setup my wireless net (I did get a chance to compile the wireless driver, but havnt set up the network or anything yet... or setup the wireless on the lappy... sadly, the lappy came with XP (but has a sticker for win2k) I guess the guy that sold it setup his winxp (and a bunch of other stuff, taking up 4G of 12G). I shold see if I can get the original cd that comes with this laptop, but untill then, I have to deal with XP (which so far is very unimpressive to me) Sadly, I still need both windows and linux to do eveyrthing I need right now... Jamie -- : Any porters out there should feel happier knowing that DEC is shipping : me an AlphaPC that I intend to try getting linux running on: this will : definitely help flush out some of the most flagrant unportable stuff. : The Alpha is much more different from the i386 than the 68k stuff is, so : it's likely to get most of the stuff fixed. It's posts like this that almost convince us non-believers that there really is a god. -- Anthony Lovell, to Linus's remarks about porting ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug] Thanks for SB card help everyone (and a new little annoyance)
On Sunday 21 December 2003 11:06 am, Bob Miller wrote: : nyal wrote: : I've got a constant hi/lo tone coming from my speakers once Mandrake : starts up. Sounds like a European Police Horn. I think it's got : something to do with the chassis intrusion alarm that's built into : this ASUS K7M Slot A Motherboard but I don't know for sure. I've : disabled the intrusion alarm in the CMOS and there's no cable : connected to the pins on the board. Does this sound familiar to : anyone? : : Are you in a car? Check in your rear view mirror for a vehicle with : flashing red or blue lights following you. That could be the source : of the noise. The best way to make it go away is accelerate and : outrun the vehicle. Bob, I had no idea you knew my uncle, but apparently, he taught you how to drive! Jamie -- I'm an idiot.. At least this [bug] took about 5 minutes to find.. Surely, Linus is talking about the kind of idiocy that others aspire to :-). -- Bruce Perens in response to Linus Torvalds's ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Sound Blaster Question......
On Saturday 20 December 2003 04:58 pm, Ken Barber wrote: : On Saturday 20 December 2003 04:16, Nyal wrote: : I'm new to Linux, currently using Mandrake 9.2 and I have a : question about a soundblaster card that's in this box I just : bought. : : I'm trying to get it to work but so far no luckMandrake : recognizes the card and has snd-emu10k1 (EMU10K1) as the : driver : : That doesn't sound right. Legacy Soundblasters have a driver that : starts with sb and the Ensoniq Soundblasters have a driver that : starts with es. that is true, however, Creative Labs bought out ensonic several years ago. many (especially older, and ISA) sound cards can be used with the sb module (ie modprobe sb) as soundblaster set the standards a very long time ago, and many manufatcurers kept soundblaster compatibility in thier devices. : : It's possible that the emul driver is trying to drive your : on-board sound chip. Are you sure you have it disabled in CMOS? : : If your soundblaster is a legacy (i.e., ISA) card, you will need : to run a little program called sndconfig. It's not installed : by default in any of the distros that I use and probably isn't in : Mandrake either, so you'll have to find it install it. It has : a little bonus: as a soundcard test, it plays a recording of : Linus explaining how he pronounces linux. sndconfig is a redhat program, it works pretty good, but re-running it can cause some problems sometimes... anyway, it should be in mandrake.. it has been in previous versions... I think the first thing to do is identify your soundcard! If its a pci soundcard, lspci should show it. catting some files in your proc should also give you some info: cat /proc/pci cat /proc/interrupts cat /proc/ioports cat /proc/dma cat /proc/devices Jamie : : Ken : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Linux is obsolete -- Andrew Tanenbaum ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]new graphical browser winner for me.
On Thursday 18 December 2003 07:16 am, Wayne Scace wrote: : Hi Gang, : Wayne K9DI es LD Patriot here. I just wanted to drop a note : letting the group know how happy I am with Firebird. It's as fast or : faster than my beloved Konqueror and a damn sight faster than Mozilla : itself (as far as I can tell). I haven't run it against galeon or opera : yet. I've got to figure out how to get opera on my debian system...:) : DISCLAIMER: While I do most of my browsing with lynx. IMHO still the : fastest browser on the web, bar NONE! Firebird might just become my : favourite graphical browser. During the rare times I boot into M$ I avoid : IE like the plague cos some site has highjacked the homepage slot and I : can't figure out how to give myself the privs to change it to what I want. : Upshot is I use Opera, and like it's tabs instead of it opening more : browser windows to clutter up my taskbar...:) Guess I'll stop blathering : now...:) : Question: how userfriendly is fluxbox? It sounds like you really apreciate fast/lightweight software, so I thnk you will really like black/flux/openbox. Its not as featured as kde or gnome, but its very nice and clean. While your at it, try out Enlightenment, E! is more intensive than Flux, but its lighter than current versions of KDE or Gnome... Jamie : Happy Holidays from the Scace Clan of Macomb IL : 73 : de : Wayne K9DI -- The game, anoraks.2.0.0.tgz, will be available from sunsite until somebody responsible notices it and deletes it, and shortly from ftp.mee.tcd.ie/pub/Brian, though they don't know that yet. -- Brian O'Donnell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Re: Window! sigh...
On Thursday 18 December 2003 11:58 am, Brad Davidson wrote: : Just out of curiosity, why are you expecting Microsoft to provide you : with a driver download for your 3rd party hardware? I know that they do : provide updates for some built-in drivers via WindowsUpdate, but not for : all cards by any means. Particilarly not old, rare, PCMCIA hardware. With aprox 90% of the market, shouldnt they be expected to support all hardware? This computer currently has SP1 installed. its true that the card is old (10BT), but far from rare, SMC makes lots of networking stuff, and has for quite a while. : : Linux does have an advantage in that (in my experience) the older and : cheaper the hardware is, the more likely it is that some poor hacker was : forced to use the hardware, and wrote a driver for it. yeah... many by Mr. Becker. : : Windows is the opposite. Since the drivers are provided by the mfgr, : there's no reason for anyone to write an XP driver for a card that : hasn't been sold in 8 years. It's not generating them any revenue any : more, what reason do they have to spend their money paying one of their : developers to write an up-to-date driver for it. yes, and why should they provide drivers if you can just buy a new one of thier products. : : I'd give up on the old beast. You can get USB or PCMCIA adapters for : almost nothing these days that will work with windows (and Linux of : course) right out of the box. It's not worth your time looking for : something you're probably not going to find. well... I have a couple comming in the mail, but they are ebay items, so I dont know if they will work, and they may be missing drivers, and cables (if required). I will likely wipe out the XP anyway, but it would be nice to be able to use it right now... it will have slackware on it as I get the oportunity to put it on. Jamie : : -Brad : : Jamie wrote: : The site simply would let me view anything. I changed konqueror's browser : to IE 6 on XP, and it let me view the site. : I looked around, but wasnt able to identify a way of finding a driver. i : tried the search feature, but it didnt find anything useful. : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Linux poses a real challenge for those with a taste for late-night hacking (and/or conversations with God). -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]Equilibrium==movie...
Equilibrium, I just watched it... It was ok, not great, but the thing that had me scratching my head was : Could they copy the matrx any more ? i really think someone told the main actor that he was going to be the next keanu. Anyway i was wondering what some of you guys thougth of it? Jamie -- Linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] put this on Tshirts in '93 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug] I am getting SP***M - I apologize,...
Ben, Hal has been a member of eug-lug since way before you joined. He doesnt write the list as often as you or I, but that doesnt make him any less(or new) of a member. I havnt seen him at any meetings lately, but then I havnt seen you at any either, but maybe if you made some of the meetings/clinics you would remember him. He's actually a fun guy. He often signs his email Hal, which is why I used that, If Hal had a problem with it, dont you think Hal would have said something? Please ceass your picking of nits with me, I for one have been tired of it for months now. Jamie On Thursday 11 December 2003 11:40 am, Ben Barrett wrote: : Jamie, please note that Hal is a newcomer to our list and the Eugene area, : while Harald is a separate person... forgive me if you've always called : Harald Hal for short. : : Regards to Hal and Harald, : :Ben : : : : On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:52:21 -0500 : : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | Hal, : | If the spam you received had gone through the list, we all would : | have gotten : | it. I dont think that Ive seen that specific one, so I cant even say its : | anyway associated with the list. : : : : : On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:13:58 -0500 : : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | Hal, : | While I sympathize with getting spam, its not going through this : | list. Its : | possible that your email address was harvested via the web archive, but I : | see no evidence of that. : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- We can use symlinks of course... syslogd would be a symlink to syslogp and ftpd and ircd would be linked to ftpp and ircp... and of course the point-to-point protocal paenguin. -- Kevin M. Bealer, commenting on the penguin Linux logo ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug] I am getting SP***M - I apologize,...
Nice... so now Im hot, and holding grudges... I assure you ben, Im quite calm. I dont think Im holding any grudges or anything, but then again, its not like you've ever aplogized or anything either. I have noticed that usually when you make a comment to me, its critical, an not really warrented. why is that? In your last messge, you had the oportunity to say, oh, I made a mistake, thought you were talking about another member... but instead you decided to get defensive (claiming you *did* ask for forgiveness), and you went even further to by calling me hot, and holding a grudge. This is actually the opposite of an appology isnt it. In general, I think your a good guy, but I have noticed that you tend to jump on even the slighest opportunity to complain or nit. Have I given you some reasont to want to be that way toward me? Jamie On Thursday 11 December 2003 12:53 pm, Ben Barrett wrote: : Not a nit, Jamie, cool down. I *did* ask to be forgiven if I was : mistaken... and I think you are not being aware of a new physical person : who has moved into the area, Hal Pomeranz, whom I assumed you were : mistakenly addressing. : And it has been months since I nitted you anyway -- how long do you : harbor grudges? : Sorry for the internal banter, folks. Let's get back to Free Software : issues, yea: : : There's a review of a tight new mini-server, compact but overpriced IMHO: : http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=471 : : The Australian Capital area going for a new open source bill: : http://slashdot.org/articles/03/12/10/239.shtml : : A new IE vulnerbility which hides the actual site being accessed: : http://slashdot.org/articles/03/12/11/1319212.shtml : : Yesterday, an interesting ask-slashdot about tivo: : http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/03/12/10/1953220.shtml : : And for you old-timers, enjoy the articles aout kermit on ISS: : http://science.slashdot.org/science/03/12/10/1957244.shtml : : : cheers all, : : Ben : : PS - we are reflections... of ourselves. : : : On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:19:13 -0500 : : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | Ben, : | Hal has been a member of eug-lug since way before you joined. He : | doesnt write : | the list as often as you or I, but that doesnt make him any less(or new) : | of a member. : | I havnt seen him at any meetings lately, but then I havnt seen you : | at any : | either, but maybe if you made some of the meetings/clinics you would : | remember him. He's actually a fun guy. : | He often signs his email Hal, which is why I used that, If Hal had : | a : | problem with it, dont you think Hal would have said something? : | Please ceass your picking of nits with me, I for one have been tired : | of it : | for months now. : | : | Jamie : | : | On Thursday 11 December 2003 11:40 am, Ben Barrett wrote: : | : Jamie, please note that Hal is a newcomer to our list and the Eugene : | : | area,: while Harald is a separate person... forgive me if you've always : | called: Harald Hal for short. : | : | : Regards to Hal and Harald, : | : : | :Ben : | : : | : : | : : | : On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:52:21 -0500 : | : : | : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | : | Hal, : | : | If the spam you received had gone through the list, we all would : | : | have gotten : | : | it. I dont think that Ive seen that specific one, so I cant even say : | : | its: | anyway associated with the list. : | : | : : | : : | : : | : On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:13:58 -0500 : | : : | : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | : | Hal, : | : | While I sympathize with getting spam, its not going through this : | : | list. Its : | : | possible that your email address was harvested via the web archive, : | : | but I: | see no evidence of that. : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- ...[Linux's] capacity to talk via any medium except smoke signals. -- Dr. Greg Wettstein, Roger Maris Cancer Center ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug] I am getting SP***M - I apologize,...
Sorry... :( Jamie On Thursday 11 December 2003 01:51 pm, Cory Petkovsek wrote: : Hey guys how about you take this personal discussion off list? : : Cory -- Even more amazing was the realization that God has Internet access. I wonder if He has a full newsfeed? -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Linux at Lane CC
Congradulation! I realy wish they had them back when I went there ( and yes, I asked many times...) I asked for perl classes too.. have they doen that yet? (or is perl dead?) Jamie On Thursday 11 December 2003 05:15 pm, Ken Barber wrote: : Last May we had a thread on eug-lug regarding Linux classes at LCC. Beaker : had a great suggestion which has finally become reality: : : On Thursday 29 May 2003 4:51 pm, Beaker wrote: : I've always thought a Best of Open Source series would be of interest : to people. Many apps such as OpenOffice, The Gimp, and Mozilla run on : several operating systems - not _just_ Linux :J - and may have broader : appeal then Linux-only apps. : : It's taken months to get it approved, but I'll be teaching a best of Open : Source class at LCC Winter term. The descriptions of all of my linux : classes are here: : : http://www.lanecc.edu/cont_ed/cont_ed/cc_menu_winter04.html#3 : : and instructions on how to register are here: : : http://www.lanecc.edu/cont_ed/faq.htm : : (hint: the website isn't easy. Best way to register is by phone) : : Note, if you will, that I'll also be teaching an Introduction to Linux : class for newbies at LCC now. It will eventually be geared to people : whose workplace has switched to Linux... which should counter the M$ FUD : that goes, where will you get trained people to use Linux in your : workplace? But there might be some nonprofits out there who are already : using it, and this class will help these folks quickly get up to speed. : : Of course, the Linux system administration class (formerly Red Hat Linux : System Administration) is also being offered. We plan to expand it to two : classes, basic and a second-level class, starting Spring term. I also : plan to have earned my RHCE, and possibly a couple of LPI certs, by then. : : Finally, we're also offering a special Linux sysadmin class for the folks : at K12s who are in charge of keeping their computers running. : : Please spread the word. : : Ken : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- /* * [...] Note that 120 sec is defined in the protocol as the maximum * possible RTT. I guess we'll have to use something other than TCP * to talk to the University of Mars. * PAWS allows us longer timeouts and large windows, so once implemented * ftp to mars will work nicely. */ -- from /usr/src/linux/net/inet/tcp.c, concerning RTT [round trip time] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]SMT soldering
On Wednesday 10 December 2003 10:27 pm, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 09:55:30PM -0500, Jamie wrote: : : http://www.9thtee.com/tivomemory.htm : : thats some of the worst soldering ive seen ! (except when i was doing : training...) I saw some stuff... some people just shouldnt be allowed to : play with hot surfaces... : Seriously though, it looks like someone that was maybe an engineer or : novice did the soldering. In production, solder joints should all look : consistant, shiney, and have nice filets. (and no bridging). : : I know what good soldering looks like and wasn't even considering what the : soldering they'd done looked like. I was thinking pasting it to give you : an idea of the size of the pins (microscopic to my eyes..) They apear to be 15 mil, fairly big by some standards (those 3 or 5 mil bend real easy!) It may be a difficult task for you, but someone that does SMT soldering should find it pretty easy... : : I suspect you could do as good as the photo (might want a big magnifying : glass in your case...) : : FWIW, I can't solder a plain DIP of the TTL variety. I lack the steady : hands to avoid bridging in that sort of situation. Well... Id do it for you, but Im not there, and I dont have my tools here... If you want to ship it to me, with the parts, and a soldering iron, flux, and solder, Ill do it. Jamie : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- If Bill Gates is the Devil then Linus Torvalds must be the Messiah. -- Unknown source ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug] I am getting SP***M from this LIST!!!! See headers in message
Hal, While I sympathize with getting spam, its not going through this list. Its possible that your email address was harvested via the web archive, but I see no evidence of that. Look at it this way, atleast it didnt say generic (implying that your cheap, and impotent!). Jamie On Wednesday 10 December 2003 08:48 pm, Harald Sundt wrote: : I hate to be cranky, but, guys : : : See below: : : Excerpt One: : : From: Clay Joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Reply-To: Clay Joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], : [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], : [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Your girl will love you and alpha zh xdc : Date: Thu, 11 Dec 03 07:21:48 GMT : X-Priority: 3 : : Content-Type: text/html; : : Your girl will love you and alpha zh xdc : : : : Excerpt Two: : : From: Berry Oneal [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Wild women in your life !! u : Date: Wed, 10 Dec 03 14:29:56 GMT : : : Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Received: from b065100.adsl.hansenet.de (b065100.adsl.hansenet.de : [62.109.65.100]) : by sapir.efn.org (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with SMTP id hBABU41j036805; : Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:30:11 -0800 (PST) : (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) : Received: from [166.9.247.162] by b065100.adsl.hansenet.de id : 810fp7Wr42w8; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:29:56 +0300 : Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : From: Berry Oneal [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Reply-To: Berry Oneal [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Wild women in your life !! u : Date: Wed, 10 Dec 03 14:29:56 GMT : X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 : MIME-Version: 1.0 : Content-Type: multipart/alternative; : boundary=CB0F68_D.1.79._55 : X-Priority: 3 : X-MSMail-Priority: Normal : : Content-Type: text/html; : : Wild women in your life !! u : : You can be a sex machine : : Finally available to the public. : Alpha Male : The supplement that Male Porn Stars use : : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- We can use symlinks of course... syslogd would be a symlink to syslogp and ftpd and ircd would be linked to ftpp and ircp... and of course the point-to-point protocal paenguin. -- Kevin M. Bealer, commenting on the penguin Linux logo ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug] I am getting SP***M - I apologize,...
Hal,
If the spam you received had gone through the list, we all would have gotten
it. I dont think that Ive seen that specific one, so I cant even say its
anyway associated with the list.
Ironicly, the email address I usually use on this list gets less spam than
any other email address I use! I dont really see the list, or its archives as
beeing an issue for spam.
My EFN account gets a ton of spam however. Ive had that account since 1995,
and the rocksolidnetworks address since 1999, so it just may be a matter of
one address being used more than the other, and around for a longer period of
time. I also only use the linux email address for mailing lists (both here in
the DC area, and back home in eugene. The linux address is also not included
in mailto: links on my webpage, but other address's that do get a lot of spam
are..
At anyrate, your always welcome to express concerns... sorry we couldnt nail
the source of your spam, but I havnt seen any effective way to do anything
about it... filtering is about your only option.
Jamie
On Thursday 11 December 2003 12:12 am, Harald Sundt wrote:
: ...I am not certain why these things work the way they do, but if you
: say it ain't the List, then I retract my cracked and yellow parrot's
: beak of peak.
:
:
: H
: ___
: EuG-LUG mailing list
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
--
if (argc 1 strcmp(argv[1], -advice) == 0) {
printf(Don't Panic!\n);
exit(42);
}
-- Arnold Robbins in the LJ of February '95, describing RCS
___
EuG-LUG mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Experts Worried After Worm Hits Windows-Based ATMs
On Tuesday 09 December 2003 01:37 am, Dirk Ouellette wrote: : http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNewsstoryID=395865 curious... so worms infect atm machines? how do they get in? I love this part (from the general marketting manager of the company, after installing firewall software to protect his machines. As far as it happening again, I wouldn't want to speculate on that, Now, it seems to me, that when a marketting person says that, what he really means is: Oh hell ya! but you didnt hear it from me! Uhh by the way, these guys make those popular voting machines too huh... think bill gates will win the next election? Jamie :7 : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- When you say 'I wrote a program that crashed Windows', people just stare at you blankly and say 'Hey, I got those with the system, *for free*'. -- Linus Torvalds ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Preferred apps
Dirk, you may need the full path to mozilla (use locate mozilla if your unsure of the ful path). Jamie On Sunday 30 November 2003 12:47 pm, Dirk Ouellette wrote: : I'm using mozilla %r in my RH 9 Preferred Apps for browser so Mozilla : will pick up the url clicks from within Evolution, but it doesn't work. : I've tried %a, and just mozilla, with no results. : Dirk : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. -- Taken from a .signature from someone from the UK, source unknown ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]overclocked problem?
I have experience with older hardware, but nothing at those speeds. Typicly the main issue is overheating, but there are other considerations... since your ram is aparently fast enough, the other considerations are your video (ram and CPU on video), I/O controller/HDD. My guess is if you tried a better video card, you might get more, but then you may also have I/O issues You might also see if you can put a thermistor on your video chip, and see if its overheating. Jamie (running a celeron 366 at 550 for almost 4 years now). On Saturday 29 November 2003 11:25 pm, Mr O wrote: : Anyone else overclock at all? What kind of problems? My machine : is super stable at 3495Mhz but pushing it over that causes : programs to just die whenever they want. I'm really not sure if : it's because of my graphics card being pushed a little more than : it can handle or the cpu clock just isn't ticking quite right. : My rusty old GeForce3 is in dire need of replacement but I was : just interested in knowing if anyone else has much experience : with similar symptoms because I want to push my CPU higher. At : 3588Mhz the temp is still under 90 degrees Farenheit. : : thanks, : : Mr O. : : __ : Do you Yahoo!? : Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard : http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- ...[Linux's] capacity to talk via any medium except smoke signals. -- Dr. Greg Wettstein, Roger Maris Cancer Center ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Serial ATA and Linux?
On Monday 24 November 2003 05:12 pm, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 11:06:02AM -0800, Bob Miller wrote: : My P4P800 motherboard has two SATA connectors. Does that mean : I could hook up a max of two SATA drives to it? : : Yes, just two drives. You've got a hybrid system with the typical : limitations of hybrid systems: the new technology is supported, but you : will find ourself wanting an upgrade when the new technology becomes the : standard one. : : Seven years ago I bought my first system with PCI slots. There were three : common standards of the time for improving ISA: EISA, VLB, and PCI. VLB's : time had since passed and, and it was common still to see boards with two : ISA, two EISA or VLB, and two PCI. The PCI on these boards was so-so, and : there were only two. PCI-only boards were unheard of (and technically : speaking still are for ia32 machines which still provide an ISA bridge for : AT keyboards, PS/2 mice, and floppy drives..) But still, ISA implemented : as a bridge to PCI allowed PCI to be the dominant system architecture and : its performance has been good enough until now. What about MCA shivver! we wont mention the oddball ones like std-32 or pc104 : : At that time, I had the foresight to buy a board with only two ISA slots : and four PCI. They were rare in those days. Very rare. Two years : later it was still common to see three ISA slots, though it was no longer : uncommon to have only two. It didn't matter, though, because the PCI was : not constrained by ISA. : : : SATA on your board is constrained both by IDE and by PCI. There;s no help : for it I'm afraid. Look for PCI-X systems with SATA in the near future to : provide more ports and more throughput than either IDE or PCI. : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Linux is not user-friendly. It _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly. -- Seen somewhere on the net ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]cOURSE REQS FOR mATH 60
On Friday 21 November 2003 01:06 pm, Cory Petkovsek wrote: : On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 08:06:27PM -0800, Dirk Ouellette wrote: : I'm planning to take my Nursing pre-reqs now so when I retire from the : Post office in Oct '06, I'll be ready to go. the following is a : requirement for my first online Math 60 class. : Will open Office fill the bill here? : Thanks, Dirk : : Course Specific Requirements: [image]Microsoft Word with Equation Editor : installed. : : You will be submitting homework assigments as Microsoft Word documents. : You need to have the equation editor loaded in Microsoft Word. Check out : the following link for instructions on using equation editor : : Ask the course instructor if they are going to fund the purchase of MS : Word. Explain that while the purchase of a $50 or even $100 text book, : while a little excessive is acceptable, the purchase of $3-500 software : product just for the sake of a class is absurd and should not be a : course requirement. well... student prices are under $200 for office last I checked, however, it does also require some version of windows, which last I checked was $179, and ofcourse this not only requires that you have a computer, but it also requires that your computer meet the minimum system requirements for the software (this can mean upgrading the hardware aswell as purchasing M$ software). Probably the computers in the labs have all this software on it, however if your taking an online class, this wont help much! Ask about alternatives. Ask now, so that in the : future when you are ready for the class, changes can have had time to : take effect. Thats a good idea. Maybe the instructor could atleast provide examples of what is required for results, if the same results can be accomplished with other software, then maybe that would meet the requirement. : : Cory -- Waving away a cloud of smoke, I look up, and am blinded by a bright, white light. It's God. No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God. In a booming voice, He says: THIS IS A SIGN. USE LINUX, THE FREE UNIX SYSTEM FOR THE 386. -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]webserver logs...
On Friday 21 November 2003 01:03 pm, Cory Petkovsek wrote: : On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 11:23:27PM -0500, Linux Rocks! wrote: : so... ive noticed this before in my webserver logs... : 68.50.124.251 - - [20/Nov/2003:23:07:12 -0500] GET : /scripts/..%%35c../winnt/ system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0 400 292 : : Lots of viruii around the internet try and exploit IIS, let along those : with malicious intent. What to do about it? Ignore it, unless the : bandwidth becomes a problem. yeah... I wasn't sure if it was a viri, or port scanner (or simular type software). I dont really plan on bothering with doing something about it, but thought it was fun to think about possible ways to do something about it... Jamie : : Cory -- Eh, that's it, I guess. No 300 million dollar unveiling event for this kernel, I'm afraid, but you're still supposed to think of this as the happening of the century (at least until the next kernel comes along). -- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.27 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]webserver logs...
so... ive noticed this before in my webserver logs... 68.50.124.251 - - [20/Nov/2003:23:07:12 -0500] GET /scripts/..%%35c../winnt/ system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0 400 292 so... looks like someone it scanning for a winnt based server they can exploit to me.. anyway, obviously its not an acutal problem, but I figured maybe some of you have had simular issues, and come up with creative solutions... like with ip tables or something :) Jamie -- It's a bird.. It's a plane.. No, it's KernelMan, faster than a speeding bullet, to your rescue. Doing new kernel versions in under 5 seconds flat.. -- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.27 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]webserver logs... (right on)
On Thursday 20 November 2003 11:30 pm, Ben Barrett wrote: : Anyone with an open port 80 on a static IP is likely to see loads of : this crap. Yep, they're looking for an exploitable 'doze box. : I usually just ignore it... Ive noticed them before and usually ignore it... the only real nuisance is that they fill up log files with useless crap... you can run host or dig on the IP if you're ohh.. Im pretty sure they are users from the same ISP. : curious as to the origination; you could even feed the GET into your : webserver to see exactly what error they got; but I have yet to see any : cool creative soluions for this. It strikes me as a waste of resources : to firewall the IP, since it is a silly request, but I think it would be : interesting to hack up a tarpit for them -- like giving them something : that looks like a command shell, to entice them -- in that case, one : would also want to modify the system signature that they might get from : nmap, etc... anyone else got some good notions on this? hmmm... interesting.. I like this idea... might be fun :) it got me thinking of what to send them... I was thinking a file full of 1's in a self extracting exe would be fun. If their program executes this file to test it, what might happen if it extracts a file of ohh say a few terrabytes of 1's ? how small will a compressed file of 1's be ? I suppose i could be really malicious and send them a trojan... or possibly theres something even more horrific that others might suggest? : Of note is that you might see multiple requests from the same IP, or : from another in the same block. This tells you something about the : nature of the attacker, but not a whole lot. Most I've seen come from : overseas or dialups... g'nitey! : :Ben : : : On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:23:27 -0500 : : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | so... ive noticed this before in my webserver logs... : | 68.50.124.251 - - [20/Nov/2003:23:07:12 -0500] GET : | /scripts/..%%35c../winnt/ system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0 400 292 : | : | so... looks like someone it scanning for a winnt based server they can : | exploit to me.. anyway, obviously its not an acutal problem, but I : | figured maybe some of you have had simular issues, and come up with : | creative solutions... like with ip tables or something :) : | : | Jamie : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- DOS: n., A small annoying boot virus that causes random spontaneous system crashes, usually just before saving a massive project. Easily cured by UNIX. See also MS-DOS, IBM-DOS, DR-DOS. -- David Vicker's .plan ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Late to the Gentoo party
Pat et al. This got my interest! Ive recently purchased an extra el-cheapo camera, and it had very limited support right now. I have never done any USB stuff before, so theres some learning i have to do! Right now Ive found someone else that has some luck getting something out of this camera, and am anxiously awating code to extract photos from this camera. My camera: Concord EyeQ Mini It has 3 major functions: webcam Still cam (640x480, fine, normal (one is compressed, but the same res)) movie clips (32second max) It has 8 megs ram onboard (non-removable, volitile) USB Ive run rc.hotplug, and the device shows up when issuing: cat /proc/bus/usb/devices Im told that the images are in raw Bayer data format, and the compressed images seem to be a jpeg like format. anyrate, the first step would be to getting the data from the camera to the secondary storage device (hard disk), and deleting from the camera. Then next step would be to process the images into a usable format. after Im able to do that, Id like to figure out how to use the camera as a webcam, and how to do the 32 second videos Any tips or help would be really helpful. Note: USB is new for me... I *think* but am not positive that I have that part right! Also on the USB topic, when I run rc.hotplug, it tries to load usb based modules for my other module loaded devices (which are already loaded!) such as my sound, network, and TV tuner. How to I keep that from happening? I looked in my blacklist file, and they are in there (but yet, they still try to load!) Jamie On Tuesday 18 November 2003 01:35 pm, Patrick R. Wade wrote: : On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 09:44:24AM -0800, Bob Miller wrote: : I'm planning to put Gentoo on my laptop eventually. Let us know how : things like hotplug, wifi and USB go. : : Hotplug appears to work ; my digital camera was detected as a USB : mass storage device. : : Note to self: /var needs to be big, as emerge sticks working stuff : in /var/tmp. Filling / while trying to build X sux. But it's a : learning experience. -- How do you power off this machine? -- Linus, when upgrading linux.cs.helsinki.fi, and after using the machine for several months ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Late to the Gentoo party
Bob, et al. Ive compiled and installed libgphoto2, gphoto2, gtkam, all the current versions (but not from CVS). I did try both of the concord entries, no joy. I also did autodetect, still no joy :( I think the chipset in the camera is aox ? anyway, i'm told its different than the 2 listed below :( One guy on the gphoto-devel list has some code that he claims will pull the data off the camera, but he hasnt provided it to me yet... been waiting a couple days... I think all he did was take some simular code and modify it to work with this cam... I dont know exactly though :( The camera I have looks a lot like the easy... but I guess its different inside. It looks like a pretty decent little device, very small and easy to use, if it had full support under linux it would be so much nicer for me though! and best of all, it can be aquired at many locations for ~$30 Office Max had a simular camera (but larger and goofy looking for $10 (afte rebate). I couldnt find a officedepot in this area though :( for $10 you can put one in every room, and glove box, backpack and if you loose it... no big worries! Jamie On Tuesday 18 November 2003 03:50 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : Linux Rocks ! wrote: : My camera: : Concord EyeQ Mini : : I just checked gtkam, and it has these two entries in the camera menu. : : Concord Eye-Q Easy : Concord EyeQ 4330 : : I wonder whether your camera would work as one of those. : : Versions: : gtkam 0.1.10 : gphoto2 2.1.2 -- I've hacked the Xaw3d library to give you a Win95 like interface and it is named Xaw95. You can replace your Xaw3d library. Oh God, this is so disgusting! -- seen on c.o.l.development.apps, about the Win95 look-alike ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gnome2
What I was thinking was something like a simm(dimm... whatever) that you pop in where you would normally have simm/dimms (say you have 3 slots, put one that is the operating system, the other 2 are primary storage as usual) The one simm would be nonvolitle ram so it doesnt go away on power cycle. It wold ofcourse want to be programmable so you can upgrade the OS. really a simple concept... Jamie On Monday 17 November 2003 03:04 pm, Ben Barrett wrote: : Id like to see a system that more like a few gig and be part of the : system ram, like a simm that you pop in and is electronicly : re-programmable, but non-volitile. and hard drives that didnt come on : unless you needed them and ofcourse dirt cheap so that everyone : could have them! -Jamie : : This sounds a lot like CF on IDE... and although it is not generally : part of system memory on IDE, you could make it a swap : partition (yikes!) although you do want to be very careful about the : lifetime write-cycle of CF and other NV storage. They are now : relatively dirt cheap and the first thing you'd need is a CF-IDE : adapter, which I think can be had for ~$20. Great for embedded systems, : solid-state systems (ie, no moving parts), and the like... : : Are you thinking of something else? Like a hot-swappable non-volatile : DIMM that works in existing systems (as if any but top-end servers do : hot-swappable memory!) and somehow also acts as a drive? : That'd be nice, heh. : : ciao, : :Ben : : : : On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:57:23 -0500 : : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | On Saturday 15 November 2003 09:47 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : | : Linux Rocks ! wrote: : | : I liked the commodore much better than the apple 2... neither were : | : all that great, but the commodore would boot w/out a disk, which : | : | is: a decent feature I wish carried over in the modern computing : | : | world!: : | : We have Linux boxes and distros that will boot from floppy, from : | : | flash: memory (CompactFlash or USB), over Ethernet using PXE, or from : | CD-ROM.: I think your wish has been granted. : | : | forgot about CF... that is an option... its still not as nice as rom : | though... I think the commodore OS was about 25k, nowadays it would : | have to be a few meg at least... Id like to see a system that more : | like a few gig and be part of the system ram, like a simm that you pop : | in and is electronicly re-programmable, but non-volitile. and hard : | drives that didnt come on unless you needed them and ofcourse dirt : | cheap so that everyone could have them! : | : | Jamie : | : | -- : | Dijkstra probably hates me. : | -- Linus Torvalds, in kernel/sched.c : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really embodies the grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen a angry penguin charging at them in excess of 100mph. They'd be a lot more careful about what they say if they had. -- Linus Torvalds, announcing Linux v2.0 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Computerbase, other Eugene PC resellers?
Ill chime in too and confirm pretty much the same thing others are saying... computer base has really good friendly service, and knowlegable employees, one of which has been a eug-lug member for a couple years now. VOS - Id never recommend... Stan (PCtrainingCenter) is a crusty old bugger, but a decent enough fella, and does support linux. He hosted the clinics for about 5 years. go in and tell him you need stuff that works with linux, and he will only sell you stuff that works with linux. Id stick with computer base or pctraining... most of the other small shops are kind of expensive, and look at you funny when you mention linux. Jamie On Monday 17 November 2003 05:10 pm, Christopher Maujean wrote: : Jason wrote: : Hey, : : kbob mentioned Computerbase as a place in Eugene to : buy custom PCs/components; does anyone else have : recommendations for this or other places to buy custom : systems in town? I'd like to buy local and will be : needing a new system when I get back to Eugene. I will : probably be getting case/power : supply/motherboard/CPU/ram and finishing it off with : junk I already have. : : Positive and negative comments are appreciated. : : Thanks, : Jason : : __ : Do you Yahoo!? : Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard : http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : My experience is that VOS has given me problems. ComputerBase rocks. : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;) -- Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on linux.cs.helsinki.fi ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]IRC
At one point I belive #euglug was setup, but I dont think anybody really used it... There is always #linux, #distro of choice, and #application of choice I sometime yack in #linux and #slackware, but Im not always available (even if Im logged in) I would ofcourse suggest using irc.freenode.net for an IRC service, there are many #linux's out there... Jamie On Monday 17 November 2003 10:03 pm, Tim Howe wrote: : Didn't there used to be an IRC channel that user group people hung out in? : : --TimH : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Linux! Guerrilla UNIX Development Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus. -- Mark A. Horton KA4YBR, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gnome2
On Sunday 16 November 2003 03:33 am, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : well... I was thinking about DVD players mostly... every laptop Ive : looked at recently has DVD (not RW), and CDRW, most are built in, but : some are removable. The Dell (even the $600 one) did have many optical : drive options (no extra charge) of DVDR, CD/DVD, CDRW, or CD. I think the : DVDR was 4x, CD/ DVD was 24x RW, 8x DVD read I think. anyway you get the : picture... : : I have a hard time accepting that there is no extra charge given that the : choice then would be DVD+-RW, just as it would be for a desktop. (The : drives are getting cheaper on the desktop - cheaper enough that that IS : the standard choice for a new machine anymore.) dell didnt have much details in the dropdown menu list... but I think the DVDR(w?) was a very low end one, if you chose dvd/cdrw, it was fairly decent (like 8xDVD, 24x cdrw), and the plain cd was 48 or 52x). I wasnt really looking for DVD+-RW for the laptop... but that doesnt mean they arent out there, I was primarily looking at new laptops w/warrently under $1k. with a laptop that price, a USB DVD burner would be a decent option. For the same cost of the mac laptop (non-student price), Im sure you can find them with the burner built in, but havnt looked. : If you buy a laptop with removable optical drive bay, you can replace it : with whatever comes out next year... or even use it as a extra battery : slot, or floppy, ... many of the sub $1000 laptops are all in one units, : with no removable drives, but not all. : How comfortable the keyboard/pointer is probably a better reason to buy : one laptop over another IMHO. : : That was one of the reasons why I bought the (more expensive) Powerbook. : The iBook just didn't have as nice a keyboard. Avoid Gateway notebooks, : their keyboards are crap. Dell too bad - pretty similar to the iBook. : IBM is supposed to have better, though I haven't tried their latest : models. Their older keyboards were better, but they were also : substantially thicker than the current models. I used an older IBM last summer, and even though it wasnt a fast computer, I did like the keyboard and display on it... it was arpox 300mhz, so its probably a few years old. nice key size, and action on the keys. the mousepad was decent too, but ive used better. I did find an averatec at staples, and like they key size, placement and action (except the puny space bar and hard to reach backspace). I found the mousepad way too far from the keyboard though... hard to use w/out completely taking your hands off the keys (ie using your thumb.) but other than that it was pretty nice, real light and thin, decent display. its kind of a small display, but then, its a small computer! Jamie : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- ...Unix, MS-DOS, and Windows NT (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly). -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]EFN mail questions...
Pat, Hey... so, I have 2 mail related questions Im also thinking anything with [big5] in the subject line I will want deleted... 1) Im tired of the spam :( so I would like the official delete spam filter for my .procmailrc 2) do I need to do anything to keep my efn mail? Jamie -- The linuX Files -- The Source is Out There. -- Sent in by Craig S. Bell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]EFN mail questions...
Arg a quandry! I finally got a message that looks legitimate, but was tagged by spam assasin. I do get a lot of spam to my efn account, and am more than a little tired of deleting the stuff. SA seem to flag about 80% of the spam atleast, and this is the first time Ive noticed it flaggin a legitimate message (well, not positive its legit, but its from a legit company, and doesnt look forged or anything (or using yahoo,msn, aol, ...) Saving the spiced ham to a temp folder is an option, but I still would hve to go through and delete all (or nearly all) anyway! Jamie Thanks for the filter Larry, I think Ill dev null my spiced ham anyway Jamie On Sunday 16 November 2003 04:42 pm, Larry Price wrote: : actually on our system it's the recipe is : : :0 H : : * ^X-Spam-Status: [Yy][Ee][Ss] : /dev/null : : although I would recommend keeping spam around for a week or so; : spamassassin works about as well as swatting mosquitoes with an axe. : : On Sunday, November 16, 2003, at 01:33 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 03:38:28PM -0500, Linux Rocks! wrote: : Pat, : Hey... so, I have 2 mail related questions Im also thinking : anything with : [big5] in the subject line I will want deleted... : : 1) Im tired of the spam :( so I would like the official delete spam : filter for : my .procmailrc : : :0 : : * ^X-Spam-Level:.*\*\*\*\* : /dev/null : : Note at least one of my mail providers uses @'s instead of *'s, and : while : I don't believe efn is the one that does, you might want that rule as : well: : : 0 : * ^X-Spam-Level:.*@ : /dev/null : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : You are the eventuality of an anomaly , which despite my sincerest : efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a : harmony : of mathematical precision. -The Architect : Microsoft has resolved this issue. We have put processes in place to : ensure there is no recurrence of this eventuality. -Microsoft : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- By the way, I can hardly feel sorry for you... All last night I had to listen to her tears, so great they were redirected to a stream. What? Of _course_ you didn't know. You and your little group no longer have any permissions around here. She changed her .lock files, too. -- Kevin M. Bealer, commenting on the private life of a Linux nerd ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]EFN mail questions...
On Sunday 16 November 2003 05:14 pm, Jim Darrough wrote: : Well, it worked. Now I should only get ONE copy. Cool... if theres a problem, let me know, I can remove/modify accounts. : : Thanks, Jamie : : PS: Got work? Never enough! Ive recently moved to the DC area... looking for part time work right now... something in the admin/website/graphics would be best, but not too picky right now! Jamie : : At 02:00 PM 11/16/2003, you wrote: : Arg a quandry! I finally got a message that looks legitimate, but was : tagged by spam assasin. I do get a lot of spam to my efn account, and am : more than a little tired of deleting the stuff. SA seem to flag about 80% : of the spam atleast, and this is the first time Ive noticed it flaggin a : legitimate message (well, not positive its legit, but its from a legit : company, and doesnt look forged or anything (or using yahoo,msn, aol, : ...) : : Saving the spiced ham to a temp folder is an option, but I still would hve : to go through and delete all (or nearly all) anyway! : : Jamie : : Thanks for the filter Larry, I think Ill dev null my spiced ham anyway : : Jamie : : On Sunday 16 November 2003 04:42 pm, Larry Price wrote: : : actually on our system it's the recipe is : : : : :0 H : : : : * ^X-Spam-Status: [Yy][Ee][Ss] : : /dev/null : : : : although I would recommend keeping spam around for a week or so; : : spamassassin works about as well as swatting mosquitoes with an axe. : : : : On Sunday, November 16, 2003, at 01:33 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : : On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 03:38:28PM -0500, Linux Rocks! wrote: : : Pat, : : Hey... so, I have 2 mail related questions Im also thinking : : anything with : : [big5] in the subject line I will want deleted... : : : : 1) Im tired of the spam :( so I would like the official delete spam : : filter for : : my .procmailrc : : : : :0 : : : : * ^X-Spam-Level:.*\*\*\*\* : : /dev/null : : : : Note at least one of my mail providers uses @'s instead of *'s, and : : while : : I don't believe efn is the one that does, you might want that rule as : : well: : : : : 0 : : * ^X-Spam-Level:.*@ : : /dev/null : : : : ___ : : EuG-LUG mailing list : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : : : -- : : You are the eventuality of an anomaly , which despite my sincerest : : efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a : : harmony : : of mathematical precision. -The Architect : : Microsoft has resolved this issue. We have put processes in place to : : ensure there is no recurrence of this eventuality. -Microsoft : : : : ___ : : EuG-LUG mailing list : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : By the way, I can hardly feel sorry for you... All last night I had to : listen to her tears, so great they were redirected to a stream. What? : Of _course_ you didn't know. You and your little group no longer have : any permissions around here. She changed her .lock files, too. : -- Kevin M. Bealer, commenting on the private life of a Linux : nerd : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : : --- : Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. : Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). : Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 11/10/2003 : : Jim Darrough, ARS KI7AY : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your : country John F. Kennedy -- The only intuitive interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned. -- Bruce Ediger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], on X interfaces ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gnome2
On Saturday 15 November 2003 08:14 am, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 11:25:03PM -0800, Bob Miller wrote: : When Havoc is done with Gnome 2.6, it will have only one button : labelled Do stuff. : : You say that like it's a bad thing. Why exactly did you buy a Mac, : again? well... a person should use whatever computer they like best... If I wasnt paying for it, Id probably have a titanium 15 (or 17) Although the performance difference between the fastest pc, and fastest mac is really neglegable (either will do the same things just about as fast... ) the mac claiming the g5 is the fastest computer on the planet seemd pretty lame... Heres PC mag's benchmarks... http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1274637,00.asp Looks to me it kind of depends on what your doing... I also read (but cannot confirm) that apples benchmarking was simular to the benchmarking linux/NT a few years back... I see PC's having a much more robust hardware market, and much lower prices (aprox 1/2 the cost of the comparable mac). : : Several reasons (why I bought my Powerbook): : : 1. Ability to actually open Word documents people keep giving me without :them getting annoyed when I tell them that OOo ate the thing. OOo sigh... OpenOffice was a disapointment to me. however abiword or even kword work fine. : 2. The need to not need to fix something every time I have a paper, :project, midterm, or other high-stress school thing pending in order to :complete that thing. (OOo and, under Gentoo, ghostscript were common :culprits, though portions of Gnome were also a factor..) never had a problem with ghostscript either... : 3. Sick and tired of hardware with half-assed support. ACPI-only notebook :that couldn't be suspended in Linux safely, poor battery life because :the speed controls didn't work, four button touchpad which only worked :as two button because there was no driver, softmodems, PCI database, :printer drivers which required annoying long command lines to print at :more than 300 DPI and took 10-15 minutes to print a six page document, :etc. Well.. I can agree with this one, If hardware manufacturers didnt only write drivers for windows, this wouldnt be much of a problem. The trick to this is buy hardware that has either been around long enough for linux drivers to exist. But then again, how many buttons work on your mac pointing device? With a mac, your even more limited by what hardware you can use. : 4. NeXT. The first thing I ever hacked on was an Apple //e. Then a :little on a Mac, then I got a look at a NeXT box. Somewhere I went :back to a IIgs and then wound up with a PC. The NeXT box was the :single best-designed things I'd ever used, and that statement holds :true to date. groovy... so nostalgia is reason to buy a computer? I liked the commodore much better than the apple 2... neither were all that great, but the commodore would boot w/out a disk, which is a decent feature I wish carried over in the modern computing world! The commodore was real easy to program too... incuding sound and color (a big deal 20 years ago), much nicer than my trs-80! : 5. Architecture. I know some 603e-era PPC asm. It's sane. The PPC is a :well-designed processor. IA32 is basically a series of incremental :hacks on the 8080A, which was a pretty lousy processor even then, hence :the high usage of the 6809 and 6502. True... back then motorola made much better CPU's than Intel, Intel based CPU's really havnt made any big advancements, just gotten bigger... : 6. 640 MB RAM, 60 GB disk, USB, Firewire, 802.11g, DVD-R, and Bluetooth in :one small package that gets on average 4 hours battery life, and can be :held in one arm comfortably (I did so with the Gateway often, but it :was never comfortable..) eh... I can find many laptops under $1000 that meet this criteria. which gives you many design choices too... many for 1/2 the cost of the powerbook. If you like light computers, sony makes some really nice ones, much nicer than the powerbook IMHO. If you dont like sony, there are other manufacturers too (such as the averatec (a bit under powered, but can be found for $700)). There are plenty of other options too... I also can run linux, windows, bsd, ... just not mac os. : 7. Price for all of that for me as a student was $1649. NO IA32 notebook :at the time could match the feature set at that price. It's still :nearly impossible to get IA32 notebooks with the featureset integrated :(mainly the DVD-R), but it is now at least possible on $2500-3000 :models. really dell will give you a dvd-r free on any of their notebooks... you can get them with most any notebook manufacturer that uses removable bay's in thier laptops... you can even put a spare battery in that slot if you prefer! : 8. Sexy metal keyboard I like that too! and the iluminated panel. : 9. Warranty for 3 years
Re: [eug-lug]Gnome2
On Saturday 15 November 2003 09:47 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : Linux Rocks ! wrote: : I liked the commodore much better than the apple 2... neither were : all that great, but the commodore would boot w/out a disk, which is : a decent feature I wish carried over in the modern computing world! : : We have Linux boxes and distros that will boot from floppy, from flash : memory (CompactFlash or USB), over Ethernet using PXE, or from CD-ROM. : I think your wish has been granted. forgot about CF... that is an option... its still not as nice as rom though... I think the commodore OS was about 25k, nowadays it would have to be a few meg at least... Id like to see a system that more like a few gig and be part of the system ram, like a simm that you pop in and is electronicly re-programmable, but non-volitile. and hard drives that didnt come on unless you needed them and ofcourse dirt cheap so that everyone could have them! Jamie -- Dijkstra probably hates me. -- Linus Torvalds, in kernel/sched.c ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gnome2
Gee... I thought that was pretty much what I said... I guess you(bob) put it better than I did... another thing not mentioned, while macinosh hardware (used to atleast) be among higher quality, its not alway the best quality, and with the PC, you do have the option of higher quality parts (and or lower quality too...) Jamie On Saturday 15 November 2003 10:34 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : T. Joseph Carter wrote: : Let's see what Dell has to say. : : $2824 : : This is a fairly silly comparison. Why match every useless feature : Steve saw fit to bundle into the G5? Instead, let's see what Apple : would charge for a Mac that matches the box ComputerBase built for me : in July. : : I needed a new motherboard, CPU, and RAM. I chose a P4 : (hyperthreaded, 800 MHz FSB, 2.4GHz), 2 GB of PC3200 RAM, and an Intel : D865PERL. (Not my first choice of motherboard, but I needed the new : computer the same day. So for comparison, use the prices charged at : The Macintosh Store on 8th. (-: ) I didn't need disk drives (already : had 'em with RedHat and two years' work preinstalled), CD-ROM, DVD, : video, sound, firewire, NIC, case, power supply, or video editing : software. : : The closest thing, pricewise, in the Apple Store, is a 1.6 GHz G5. : With 2GB RAM, it's $2945. Never mind that if I'd bought a Mac that : day, I'd also need a new display and all new software, which is never : free on Macs. Oh, did The Macintosh Store have G5s in stock in July? : Might have had to settle for a G4. : : I paid $550. Got it in an hour. : : There. I've just proven a Mac costs 5X as much as a comparable PC. (-: : Is my comparison any less valid than yours? (Yes, I'm aware that my : comparison is about as valid as a SCO legal brief. But so is yours.) : : : The thing is, the PC ecosystem is broad, deep and complex. There are : five vendors competing for every niche in it, from CPU to video card : to case to the little screws that hold the PCI cards in. The Mac : ecosystem is single source from top to bottom, exactly three : products at any time, cleverly positioned so that only the top product : has all the useful features. When Apple screws up -- ships a : faulty/unreliable product, can't meet demand, or misses a development : schedule, Mac users have no alternative. PC users just buy another : brand. : : One is rain forest, the other is parking lot. : : The other thing is, the Mac has a closed, proprietary software : architecture. Just like Windows. More so, in fact, since Apple owns : it from the apps to the chips. The PC, especially with Linux or *BSD, : is infinitely diverse. You always have choices, including the choice : to rewrite it your way. (That's why we're FOSS zealots, after all.) : : : I'm glad you like your Mac and your iBook. I'm glad they work for you : and for the other EUGLUGsters who have them. But don't for a minute : think Apple has the only viable platform. : : Disclaimer: I've owned three Macs. I've worked at Apple. I first : developed for Mac in 1985. -- Linux poses a real challenge for those with a taste for late-night hacking (and/or conversations with God). -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]RPM Woes
Traitor! hehe... just teasing... so... how is redhat 9? would you use it on your computer? Jamie On Saturday 15 November 2003 11:07 pm, Bob Crandell wrote: : Hi, : : Just thought I'd let you know, at least the ones who care (if there are : any), that reinstalling Redhat on a clean system went well. There were : only a couple of boo boos cause I can't tpye. I still stubbornly refuse to : like Redhat. : : Thanks for responding even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear/read. : : Bob : : -- : Assured Computing : When you need to be sure. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.assuredcomp.com : Voice - 541-868-0331 : FAX - 541-463-1627 : Eugene, Oregon : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Eh, that's it, I guess. No 300 million dollar unveiling event for this kernel, I'm afraid, but you're still supposed to think of this as the happening of the century (at least until the next kernel comes along). -- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.27 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gnome2
On Saturday 15 November 2003 10:54 pm, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : (Didn't notice there was more..) : : On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 12:35:06PM -0500, Linux Rocks! wrote: : : Several reasons (why I bought my Powerbook): : : : : 1. Ability to actually open Word documents people keep giving me : : without them getting annoyed when I tell them that OOo ate the thing. : : OOo sigh... OpenOffice was a disapointment to me. however abiword or even : kword work fine. : : Abiword may one day be the Linux word processor of choice. It's not : today, though. =( I have no complaints about abiword... works great for me. much better than OOo/StarOffice, but then I really dont use that type of software often... : : eh... I can find many laptops under $1000 that meet this criteria. which : gives you many design choices too... many for 1/2 the cost of the : powerbook. If you like light computers, sony makes some really nice ones, : much nicer than the powerbook IMHO. If you dont like sony, there are : other manufacturers too (such as the averatec (a bit under powered, but : can be found for $700)). There are plenty of other options too... I also : can run linux, windows, bsd, ... just not mac os. : : Show me one sub-$1000 IA32 notebook that writes DVDs without hanging a : drive off a USB or Firewire port. I have yet to see it. well... I was thinking about DVD players mostly... every laptop Ive looked at recently has DVD (not RW), and CDRW, most are built in, but some are removable. The Dell (even the $600 one) did have many optical drive options (no extra charge) of DVDR, CD/DVD, CDRW, or CD. I think the DVDR was 4x, CD/ DVD was 24x RW, 8x DVD read I think. anyway you get the picture... If you buy a laptop with removable optical drive bay, you can replace it with whatever comes out next year... or even use it as a extra battery slot, or floppy, ... many of the sub $1000 laptops are all in one units, with no removable drives, but not all. How comfortable the keyboard/pointer is probably a better reason to buy one laptop over another IMHO. : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- I'm an idiot.. At least this [bug] took about 5 minutes to find.. Disquieting ... -- Gonzalo Tornaria in response to Linus Torvalds's ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gnome2
Rob, Gnome 2.4 was released a while ago... (came with slack 9.1 atlest!) mabye using a more current version will alevaite some of your problems Jamie On Friday 14 November 2003 12:36 pm, Rob Hudson wrote: : On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:58:38 -0800 : : Rob Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | I switched from Enlightenment to Gnome2.2 with Metacity about a month : | ago. I like the Gnome2 better at this point simply b/c it integrates : | better with other apps. But there are 2 things that bother me... : | : | 1. I can't set up my own keybindings to launch various programs. : | Gnome has default keybindings such as minimizing windows, moving to : | different viewports, etc. But I cannot find a way to set up a : | keybinding to launch my xterm, for instance. Something I grew : | accustomed to with E. : | : | 2. I run gkrellm, and when I alt-tab to different windows, it shows up : | in the list of windows. I can't find where or how to make that not : | happen. Enlightement had an option on all windows to include them in : | the list or not. I'm going to go to gkrellm in a moment -- maybe : | there is a plugin or something. : | : | If anyone knows how to fix these, please tell me. You'll be my Gnome : | savior. :) : | : | -Rob : : On 20031114.0924, Ben Barrett said ... : : For the gkrellm issue: if you're using a new enough version of gkrellm, : there is a configuration option in its GUI to achieve what you want: : Right-click on gkrellm, and select configuration (or hit F1 when gkrellm : has focus), then in the General area, select the second tab, : Properties. There you'll see options for whether to set as a : dock/panel type, as well as finer-grade options like inclusion on : taskbar and pager... if your version does not have that, you might look : for a gkrellm-plugins-gnome which offers similar functionality. : : Yes, I have those options, but it doesn't seem to make any difference... : even when I restart gkrellm in between. Strange. The website says : these should work too. I have gkrellm 2.1.7, install via apt on debian : testing. : : -Rob : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- How do I type for i in *.dvi do xdvi $i done in a GUI? -- Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of interfaces ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]ecommerce experiences sought
Ive actually had decent experience with authorize.net. I've used them with a few customers, and mostly good service, however I have had troubles with another company that aparently was owned by them... but thats completely unrelated probably. Its been a few years, but I used commerce.cgi (shopping cart, perl based) with their service w/out any troubles... I was able to heavily modify the cart w/ out breaking stuff. I think commerce.cgi has gone away now, but something must have replaced it! hopefully what your dealing with is compatable. Authorize.net isnt the only game in town though... I wouldnt recommend versign/signio to anyone though. Jamie On Friday 14 November 2003 02:49 pm, Larry Price wrote: : Has anybody on this list had to deal with : authorize.net from a unix environment? : : Comments, experiences? : : Are there any payment authorization gateways that are in the set of : (not crewed by vampires not Microsoft centric) ? : : We've been using trustcommerce.com : and while as a programmer, I found their interface to be : straightforward and : their documentation excellent, the per transaction charges are fierce. : : : -- : You are the eventuality of an anomaly , which despite my sincerest : efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a : harmony : of mathematical precision. -The Architect : Microsoft has resolved this issue. We have put processes in place to : ensure there is no recurrence of this eventuality. -Microsoft : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Ever heard of .cshrc? That's a city in Bosnia. Right? -- Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of commands ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]'nuther reason
On Thursday 13 November 2003 03:08 am, Cory Petkovsek wrote: : On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 09:38:46PM -0800, Ken Barber wrote: : Lazy sysadmins? I beg to differ. : : How about overworked sysadmins? I was once in charge of a 'Doze : network and there was no way I could keep current with the : patches. Before one patch project was complete, there were two : more vulnerabilities that needed patching. And patching M$ : systems isn't exactly quick or easy with all of the testing that : must be done first, not to mention trying to schedule the patch : around various or department's schedules. I could have worked : full-time at that place doing nothing else -- but I was required : to do everything else. : : The problem isn't lazy sysadmins, unless not wanting to work 70 : hours per week is your definition of lazy. : : Agreed. In a recent thread about linux activism w/ numbers, I posted a : research report done by the Robert Frances Group, paid for by IBM. This : study focused on real world clients using windows, linux and solaris on : x86 and sun hardware respectively. They broke all measurements down to : normalized units so they could be compared fairly. They found from : these real world businesses that a windows administrator can generally : administer 10 servers, while a linux administrator, although more : expensive, can manage 44 servers. From my personal experience I would agree also. I must admit to using windows far less than linux. My experince with Service packs is that they often cause a whole lot of problems, which then have to be dealt with, which turns into a whole lot of time being eaten up to fix one problem that should never have been overlooked in the first place. Its a really frustrating problem that likely keeps admins from keeping windows machines current. From the Real world experience files, I did my work co-op in a govt office. There were 170 workstations (at that time) running NT4, and we needed to update to SP4, IE, mcafee, and a few smaller apps. The bulk of the time was for IE, and NT4, and it took about 2 hours per workstation. The process was about 10 pages long, and the admin worked on one workstation at a time, at this rate, working by himself, he would have gotten it done just in time for the next update. If this were a linux shop, I could have taken my time (like all day If I wanted) to write a script to completely automate this process, and have all the workstations updated overnite (note, this means no downtime for the user too!). This way, I could have spent the rest of my time doing better things. I belive that the sql expliot (the nasty one earlier this year that took down bank of america, and many other large instituions, and servers all over the world) admins did know about well in advance, but did not install service packs. I think the blaster instance was well documented a couple years ago... I would have to look up references about it... It was a while ago, however I think it was TV news, not some crazy linux zelot that told me. : : http://www.rfgonline.com/subsforum/LinuxTCO.pdf : : Cory -- [In 'Doctor' mode], I spent a good ten minutes telling Emacs what I thought of it. (The response was, 'Perhaps you could try to be less abusive.') -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]'nuther reason
On Thursday 13 November 2003 01:37 pm, Cory Petkovsek wrote: : On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:09:54AM -0500, Linux Rocks! wrote: : From the Real world experience files, I did my work co-op in a govt : office. : SNIPP : With 170 linux workstations, it wouldn't even take a whole day to write : a script. I'd build a local debian mirror, then push out an apt sources : file and a cron job to every workstation that says to automatically : upgrade off of the server. : : apt-get update : apt-get -q -y -u upgrade Ohh.. yeah, I kinda meant that I could have had the luxury of spending the whole day writing and testing, and of course goofing on a bit... Even If I wanted to have every machine compile and install their own kernels/ modules report status/failure/success, reboot, report kernel versions... it would have been feasible to do that in one day, and have many days of uptime before needing to run the script again! Jamie : : Cory -- We apologize for the inconvenience, but we'd still like yout to test out this kernel. -- Linus Torvalds, announcing another kernel patch ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Brother, can you spare 30 billion dimes?
Yeah... 30billion dimes... After reading the article, it sounds like the EU is more interested in getting thier peice of the M$ pie, than making business fair... I dont see anything they say that leads me to belive that they care about unfair business practices, or making things better... just getting their money... Jamie On Wednesday 12 November 2003 01:42 am, Bob Crandell wrote: : Hi, : : I think they are beginning to develop an image problem. : : http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/11/11/microsoft.eu.ap/index.html : : Bob : : -- : Assured Computing : When you need to be sure. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.assuredcomp.com : Voice - 541-868-0331 : FAX - 541-463-1627 : Eugene, Oregon : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. -- Taken from a .signature from someone from the UK, source unknown ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Late to the Gentoo party
On Wednesday 12 November 2003 03:53 am, Patrick R. Wade wrote: : So; due to a combination of frustration with a slow release cycle : and curiosity, i replaced my Debian install on my laptop with Gentoo. : It's been an interesting experience so far; it has by far the most : primitive installer i've seen in a long time. My memory of the : vintage 1996 Slackware installer is that it was more sophisticated. heh.. its no more sophisticated now either! : : One question i've not found the answer to yet, and would appreciate : if anyone else knows; is there something i can do with emerge or a : related application to list the full set of installed packages, : equivalent to Debian's : # dpkg -l '*' | grep ^ii : : : It looks to me like it's all there in /var/log/emerge.log, but : i'd prefer something zippier than grep, if it's already been done :-) -- Never make any mistaeks. -- Anonymous, in a mail discussion about to a kernel bug report ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Disk space
On my system, rm is in /usr/bin, so if your in /usr and you rm -rf *, you will actually remove rm! so is du, and df! maybe it would be best to boot your system using a bootable cd before doing this! Jamie On Monday 10 November 2003 01:00 am, Linux Rocks! wrote: : Tim, : You can find out how much each of your directories are using with the du : command, so you might cd to /usr and issue : du -a ./ : then cd to /var : du -a ./ : also, you have log files under /var/log, these files can get really big : over time and the info may not be of any value, so check out what you have : under / var/log, and see if you can free up some of that too (its possible : you have webserver logs(or whatever) that are humongous, and you dont even : use your webserver!) check out your messages, and syslog files, they get : new stuff all the time, if you dont need any of that info, and they are : taking up 250 megs you might tail the last 100 lines into another file, : then move it to the existing file... : also check out lastlog, wtmp, they can get big, and may not be of much use : to you (although they really can be handy if you have an intruder!) : : as far as the partition deal goes... lets say you have 2g of data under : /usr, you want to make it its own partition. you have a 4 gig disk : partition in the system as hdc1. : : Mount your partition as /new : mount /dev/hdc1 /new (or edit your /etc/fstab and put it in) then mount -a : so... do a df (this will show you disk free space, and the number of inodes : and size (hopefully both your disks will have the same size inodes to keep : this simple!) keep this info handy for comparison later... : : no first copy your data from your /usr partition to your /new partition : heres a nice way using tar... (btw, cd to /usr first!) : : tar cf - . | ( cd /new ; tar xvpf -) : now you will have a duplicate of your /usr on /new, do a du -a, and compare : that the sizes match (just incase... it will be, but its good to double : check incase) : : now, the scary part... in the /usr dir, rm -rf * : that will wipe out your /usr dir... : now edit your /etc/fstab to include /usr on /dev/hdc1 : unmount /new, then mount -a : (mount -a will mount everything in your fstab) : : I dont think you need anything in /usr while performing this task, so you : probably dont need to boot the system on ramdisk (so your / partition isnt : mounted), but if you do, Im sure someone on this list will yell at me... : : Jamie : : On Monday 10 November 2003 12:11 am, Timothy Bolz wrote: : : I was running out of diskspace. I was sitting at 99 percent disk usage : : and I removed some programs and got it down to 98 percent. I then : : realized that the .deb files would be taking up space so I removed them : : and got it down to 85 percent. I would like to get it lower. When : : removing some files using aptitude said it could delete the programs : : directory because it was full. There must be a way to force aptitude to : : delete those unwanted directories. I was considering using one of the my : : other partitions as a means of increasing the size. The question I have : : is what directory uses up the most space and could I just mount it for : : example /usr and would /usr use this partiton to extend itself. I have a : : partition use for my home directories and it works great. I've just : : noticed that's getting pretty full too. That I just have to do some : : weeding. : : : : Thanks : : Tim : : ___ : : EuG-LUG mailing list : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- The chat program is in public domain. This is not the GNU public license. If it breaks then you get to keep both pieces. -- Copyright notice for the chat program ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Politically motivated spam filtering at EFN?
On Monday 10 November 2003 08:48 pm, Ben Barrett wrote: : Howdy. Please tend toward *small* conversations, and include people or : lists AS they define their interest... it is good netiquette. Since I : don't have anything to do with EFN, I'd like to take the opportunity to : go ahead and tell my own part... since this wasn't marked as spam : (darn!). well.. actually you do, your subscribed to atlest one mailinglists that is hosted on efn (and therby uses efn mail servers). : : I think there is a great responsibility on the end-user. For instance, : you obviously made the right choice, to not entirely trust the spam : filter. You got your mail, good. Potential political motivations aside : (and in these coming months, I expect to see almost *anything* being : called politically motivated!!), I don't think that this has much : bearing on EUGLUG. Post to activism, please!!! : : Buy more viagra, cheaper spam now, great new offer, yada yada. : Sigh : : ciao, : : Ben : : PS - What in the world does the OPN Board have to do with EFN's : technical ops? : : PPS - Have a great politcally-motivated evening... : : : On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:02:01 -0800 : : Marc Baber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | Hi Larry (and Cc's), : | : | Now that I've got your attention with an over-the-top provocative : | subject line :-), Please forgive me for singling you (Larry) out as : | the expert on the subject of [EMAIL PROTECTED], but you've been very helpful on the : | topic more than once in the past and I suspect you're our best hope of : | : | finding answers to a troubling problem: : | : | I've been noticing that all e-mail coming to me from the local Dean : | campaign is flagged as [EMAIL PROTECTED] by EFN's servers. Had I not specifically : | requested and arranged for my [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be delivered instead of silently : | deleted, the EFN system would have deleted this e-mail without : | informing me and I would not be aware of the event announced in this : | e-mail. Most people don't make the arrangements that I have to see : | their spam and decide for themselves. I wonder how many EFN users : | opted into this list and will never hear about the upcoming event : | because of EFN's [EMAIL PROTECTED] filters? I wonder how that may effect : | attendance at the event? funds raised? election outcome? (Yeah, I : | know, but hey, it was *real* close last time!) : | : | The overwhelming criterion for identifying this e-mail as [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the : | Bayesian [EMAIL PROTECTED] probability. I'm familiar with the term Bayesian : | networks and understand that somebody has probably implemented a spam : | recognition heuristic based on such technology. : | : | My questions are: : | : | 1. Is EFN currently using [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the server name oswald : | suggests? If so, what version? If not, what [EMAIL PROTECTED] filter is being : | used? 2. The Bayesian probability suggests to me that there is a : | repository of reported [EMAIL PROTECTED] somewhere that incoming e-mail is compared : | against to see if it resembles any previously reported spiced-ham : | incidents. This leads me to further questions: : | a. Is the repository local to EFN or out there on the 'net. If the : | latter, where (what URL(s)) is the repository? : | b. Who decides what reference e-mails go into the repositor(ies)? : | What criteria do they use? Can we check to see who may have reported : | *solicited* (not unsolicited) Dean campaign e-mail? : | : | I think there is a huge incentive for political zealots to abuse spam : | filters for political goals if they can be so abused. I want to make : | sure that there are mechanisms in place to prevent such censoring, : | both at EFN and elsewhere. I welcome knowledge and insights from : | anyone familiar with popular spam filtering tech. : | : | Thank you for listening, This issue is likely to become my favorite : | rant for the coming year :-), : | : | Marc : | : | Original Message : | From: - Mon Nov 10 13:48:49 2003 : | X-UIDL: 1058303202.5853 : | X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 : | X-Mozilla-Status2: : | Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] by oswald.efn.org with : | SpamAssassin (2.60 1.212-2003-09-23-exp); Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:26:22 : | -0800 From: Ron Burley [EMAIL PROTECTED] : | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : | Subject: *SPAM* [Dean2004] Howard Dean's Birthday Party : | Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:24:33 -0800 : | Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : | X-Spam-Flag: YES : | X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on : | oswald.efn.org : | X-Spam-Server: oswald.efn.org : | X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=6.2 required=5.0 : | tests=BAYES_99,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, : | HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_BALANCE_A, : | UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.60 : | X-Spam-Level: ** : | MIME-Version: 1.0 : | Content-Type: multipart/mixed; : | boundary=--=_3FB01E9E.C99E58B1 : | : | : | : | Spam detection software,
Re: [eug-lug]Re: [Opnboard]Politically motivated spam filtering at EFN?
On Monday 10 November 2003 08:01 pm, Roger wrote: : Around Mon,Nov 10 2003, at 03:02, Marc Baber, wrote: : Hi Larry (and Cc's), : : Now that I've got your attention with an over-the-top provocative : subject line :-), Please forgive me for singling you (Larry) out as the : expert on the subject of [EMAIL PROTECTED], but you've been very helpful on the topic : more than once in the past and I suspect you're our best hope of : finding answers to a troubling problem: : : I've been noticing that all e-mail coming to me from the local Dean : campaign is flagged as [EMAIL PROTECTED] by EFN's servers. Had I not specifically : requested and arranged for my [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be delivered instead of silently : deleted, the EFN system would have deleted this e-mail without informing : me and I would not be aware of the event announced in this e-mail. Most : people don't make the arrangements that I have to see their spam and : decide for themselves. I wonder how many EFN users opted into this list : and will never hear about the upcoming event because of EFN's [EMAIL PROTECTED] : filters? I wonder how that may effect attendance at the event? funds : raised? election outcome? (Yeah, I know, but hey, it was *real* close : last time!) : : Not Larry, : : We don't delete anything marked spam. What we do is to mark something : as probably spam and let the member delete or not. Ive noticed... I havnt done my mail on EFN in a couple months... last night I spent a few hours going through old mail that had been magily re-marked as new, and going deleteing an additional 1000+ message that have come in since the last few months, most of which was spam (and a lot of eug-lug admin stuff...). I still havnt had the chance look at the 20 or so legitimate mail! Jamie -- [In 'Doctor' mode], I spent a good ten minutes telling Emacs what I thought of it. (The response was, 'Perhaps you could try to be less abusive.') -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Politically motivated spam filtering at EFN?
well... this is getting wildly off topic, but... the list is managed by 2 individuals, mostly ed, but also me. The listserver does block post by non-subscribers, but we have to manually delete those messages (or allow them). It doesnt really need to do any filtering as it only allows post from members, and members that spam the list (in theory alone) get removed. Jamie On Monday 10 November 2003 09:47 pm, Ben Barrett wrote: : Jamie, it is also good to cut unrelated bits from a post, as you reply. : BTW, our mailing list is an opt-in list managed by mailman AFAIK, and : I've never seen spam-filter references in the mail headers... although : it might be hidden from us, I don't think any spam-filters are acting on : the EUGLUG list. YMMV (-8 : : Ben : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success -- Dennis M. Ritchie ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Potential backdoor in kernel averted
You beat me to posting this! I read it a couple hours ago, and didnt post! anyway... its pretty interesting... I found the part about yacking over a few beers part most interesting :) Jamie On Friday 07 November 2003 04:44 pm, Cory Petkovsek wrote: : Check this out, someone tried to put in a sneaky backdoor into the new : linux kernel. : : http://www.securityfocus.com/news/7388 : : with Much gaIn from linux inseCuRity, whO waS behind back doOrs in the : FuTure kernel? : : cory SeCret nOte petkovsek -- C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success -- Dennis M. Ritchie ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]FAH info
On Thursday 06 November 2003 02:17 pm, Rob Hudson wrote: : On 20031106.1115, Bob Miller said ... : : Jacob Meuser wrote: : I see there have been 61 'folders' for 668, pretty impressive. Maybe : there'd be more new members if euglug's FAH efforts were more blatant : on the website? : : Excellent idea! : : (BTW, the euglug webmaster position is still open. Doesn't anyone : here want fame, wealth, and groupies?) : : Any votes to just install something like Geeklog or Postnuke, and have a : web admin group to manage it? I thought beaker was doing that! I would be willing to volunteer for co-admin atleast... I dont mind helping as I can. website edits are pretty easy for me... then again... Im not in eugene, so... mabye I dont qualify! (although ive setup postnuke before... ) Jamie : : -Rob : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Windows without the X is like making love without a partner. Sex, Drugs Linux Rules win-nt from the people who invented edlin. Apples have meant trouble since eden. Linux, the way to get rid of boot viruses -- MaDsen Wikholm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Free Monitor
Thats really great and everything, but I do have atleast one monitor in eugene, its really out here that I could use a monitor. If Bob can use it, and doesnt need it when I get back (could be years, I have no idea) but It doesnt look like Ill be back anytime too soon. Its weird that there are so many places that wont take a decent working monitor! I can understand about some placed charging money, as they probably get a lot of dead monitors (or ones that work for 5 minutes...) and end up having to recycle them at thier expense... If my car sells (which it hasnt... even though I lowered the price) Ill probably get a laptop, the I wont need this monitor on all the time, and can move it around... P.S. Anyone looking for a fast car? I have a vintage 1982 Mitsubishi Starion Turbo for sale... only $1,500. I rarely drive it, and have restored most of it. It has some minor issues that would be good to fix, but works fine as it is. Its fast, and has decent speakers (6) on the stock stereo, power everything (even windows), and a halfway decent paint job. Jamie On Sunday 02 November 2003 01:12 am, Bob Crandell wrote: : I'm sharing an office with Muhleim, Boyd and Carroll at 88 E. Broadway. : Just tell the nice lady that it's for me and I'll store it away for Jamie. : : Maximillian Von Schwanekamp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : I should tell my slightly amusing story on this - I tried to donate it : to the Goodwill on Coburg Rd, and they don't accept (and will soon stop : selling) computer parts anymore. I called EFN, and they did not want : it, but suggested St Vinny's on Seneca. Tried there, but they wanted me : to give them $5 in addition to giving them the monitor! (Or any other : computer equipment for that matter). Sure we'll accept your gift, but : you have to pay us for the effort of pricing it and putting it on a : shelf. That irked me, so here I am looking for a home for this : monitor! Seriously though, Jamie if you really want another monitor, I : would be happy to drop it off. : : Having done this free stuff posting before, it occured to me that it : might be of some use to the community to provide a sort of Humane : Society for computer equipment... But entirely free, or close to : that. Could make an active effort to assemble Linux-based systems, and : donate them to those who might need them. : : Max : : Bob Crandell wrote: : Max could always drop it off at my office and Jamie could pick it up from : there next time he is in the neighborhood. : : Bob : : Linux Rocks ! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : heh... yeah... I could have fed ex pick it up... how much do you suppose : that would cost! : : Jamie : : On Saturday 01 November 2003 10:35 pm, Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: : : Ah. Guess I should have said: Free for someone who is willing and : : able to pick it up in the reasonably near future: : : : : Max : : : : Linux Rocks ! wrote: : : hey I could really use a monitor, but its a 3000 mile drive! (which : : Is why I only have 1 monitor with me!) : : : : Dont hold the monitor for me, I have no idea when I'll be in driving : : distance! : : : : Jamie : : : : On Saturday 01 November 2003 10:08 pm, Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: : : : Free for someone who is willing to pick it up: : : : : : : 1 HP 55 15inch SVGA monitor, I believe it's 70Mhz @ 1024x768. : : : Works fine no burn or screen scratches, it's just taking up desk : : : space. It does have some black ink splatters on the top, near the : : : back. Nothing that you would notice while using it though. : : : : : : I live near the fairgrounds, for your logistical info. : : : : : : Max Schwanekamp : : : ___ : : : EuG-LUG mailing list : : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : : I get the following error messages at bootup, could anyone tell me : what they mean? : fcntl_setlk() called by process 51 (lpd) with broken flock() emulation : : They mean that you have not read the documentation when upgrading the : kernel. :-- seen on c.o.l.misc : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : Assured Computing : When you need to be sure. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.assuredcomp.com : Voice - 541-868-0331 : FAX - 541-463-1627 : Eugene, Oregon : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : : Maximillian Schwanekamp : Neptune Webworks http://www.neptunewebworks.com : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : Assured Computing : When you need to be sure. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.assuredcomp.com : Voice - 541-868-0331 : FAX - 541-463-1627 : Eugene, Oregon
Re: [eug-lug]Free Monitor
On Sunday 02 November 2003 03:05 pm, Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: SNIP : That's even worse than the $5 St Vinny's wanted. What's up with the fee : for monitors? Guess I'll ask FreeGeek. Just out of curiosity, and not : asking for any commitments, would anyone be interested in participating : in something like FreeGeek for Eugene? The biggest hurdle, aside from : sufficient people-power, would be acquiring space for storage and testing. well.. actually, ed and I were going to look into it, but never got a chance to go up to portland and meet with the free geek guys... It does sound like a pretty cool thing, and might be fun too... Maybe these postings will stir up some interest! Jamie : : M : : Bob Miller wrote: : Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: : Having done this free stuff posting before, it occured to me that it : might be of some use to the community to provide a sort of Humane : Society for computer equipment... But entirely free, or close to : that. Could make an active effort to assemble Linux-based systems, and : donate them to those who might need them. : : That would be my cue to mention MacRenewal. They're a local* nonprofit : that takes in old Macs, refurbishes them, and gives them to schools : and other needy groups. : : Here's the web page. http://www.macrenewal.org/ : : : * local to Eugene, not to Jamie (-: -- The game, anoraks.2.0.0.tgz, will be available from sunsite until somebody responsible notices it and deletes it, and shortly from ftp.mee.tcd.ie/pub/Brian, though they don't know that yet. -- Brian O'Donnell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Free Monitor
hey I could really use a monitor, but its a 3000 mile drive! (which Is why I only have 1 monitor with me!) Dont hold the monitor for me, I have no idea when I'll be in driving distance! Jamie On Saturday 01 November 2003 10:08 pm, Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: : Free for someone who is willing to pick it up: : : 1 HP 55 15inch SVGA monitor, I believe it's 70Mhz @ 1024x768. Works : fine no burn or screen scratches, it's just taking up desk space. It : does have some black ink splatters on the top, near the back. Nothing : that you would notice while using it though. : : I live near the fairgrounds, for your logistical info. : : Max Schwanekamp : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- DOS: n., A small annoying boot virus that causes random spontaneous system crashes, usually just before saving a massive project. Easily cured by UNIX. See also MS-DOS, IBM-DOS, DR-DOS. -- David Vicker's .plan ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]jason's talk on host security
On Saturday 01 November 2003 10:13 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : Cory Petkovsek wrote: : Jason's talk was great. A well prepared, and thorough presentation on a : 12-step program to host-security-happiness. : : Thanks a lot Jason! : : Yeah, thanks, Jason! I wish I could have been there. me too... : : Do we have slides or other materials on the web? If not, can we get some? me too... -- The new Linux anthem will be He's an idiot, but he's ok, as performed by Monthy Python. You'd better start practicing. -- Linus Torvalds, announcing another kernel patch ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Free Monitor
heh... yeah... I could have fed ex pick it up... how much do you suppose that would cost! Jamie On Saturday 01 November 2003 10:35 pm, Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: : Ah. Guess I should have said: Free for someone who is willing and able : to pick it up in the reasonably near future: : : Max : : Linux Rocks ! wrote: : hey I could really use a monitor, but its a 3000 mile drive! (which Is why : I only have 1 monitor with me!) : : Dont hold the monitor for me, I have no idea when I'll be in driving : distance! : : Jamie : : On Saturday 01 November 2003 10:08 pm, Maximillian Von Schwanekamp wrote: : : Free for someone who is willing to pick it up: : : : : 1 HP 55 15inch SVGA monitor, I believe it's 70Mhz @ 1024x768. Works : : fine no burn or screen scratches, it's just taking up desk space. It : : does have some black ink splatters on the top, near the back. Nothing : : that you would notice while using it though. : : : : I live near the fairgrounds, for your logistical info. : : : : Max Schwanekamp : : ___ : : EuG-LUG mailing list : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- I get the following error messages at bootup, could anyone tell me what they mean? fcntl_setlk() called by process 51 (lpd) with broken flock() emulation They mean that you have not read the documentation when upgrading the kernel. -- seen on c.o.l.misc ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Why can't we all just get along
On Monday 27 October 2003 10:34 pm, Cory Petkovsek wrote: good points snipped out And real hackers don't click. This is a great quote. may I use it? Jamie : : Cory -- DOS: n., A small annoying boot virus that causes random spontaneous system crashes, usually just before saving a massive project. Easily cured by UNIX. See also MS-DOS, IBM-DOS, DR-DOS. -- David Vicker's .plan ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gimp printing photos
Dirk, The GIMP uses its own printing tools, check out: http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Jamie On Monday 27 October 2003 10:35 am, Dirk Ouellette wrote: : Is there anyone on the list who can help me set up the Gimp to print : photos using Redhat 9 and my hp 5550 printer. So far I have to use a : Windows hdd as I can't figure out how to make Gimp do the job. The : gThumb viewer will do it but I can't configure the right picture sizes : in gThumb. Is there an easier app to do photo printing in linux? : Thanks, Dirk : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- panic(Fod fight!); -- In the kernel source aha1542.c, after detecting a bad segment list ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Host Security - EUGLUG Presentation Details
This sounds like a really good presentation! I tragicly, I wont be there in person. Will there be any presentaion material and notes available on the website? Jamie On Monday 27 October 2003 09:08 pm, Jason wrote: : Hey List, : : Here is a little blurb to shed some more light on the : presentation I'll be giving on Saturday (Nov. 1): : : A Platform-Independent Approach to System Security : : One-liner: : I'll be discussing the methodology I've helped develop : at @stake for implementing and evaluating host : security, regardless of operating system. : : Problem Statement (for those who like these sorts of : things): : Most organizations use multiple operating systems : (i.e. Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc.), and there are : tons of tools available to help secure hosts (i.e. : Global Policies, Bastille Linux, SST/JASS, YASSP, : Titan). However, there is little in the way of : cross-platform guidance, both detailed and high-level, : for administrators who may or may not have any tools : at their disposal. : : Anyhoo, I'll be covering the key areas that must be : addressed when securing (i.e. hardening, tightening, : locking down) a system. To prevent boredom and random : nodding off, I'll try to keep it lively with some : pen-testing (i.e. breaking in, r00ting, 0wnz0ring) war : stories that are relevant to each security area. : : Given, the audience, I'll of course be talking about : these issues WRT Linux, but I'll also be addressing : Windows, Solaris, etc. And, feel free to bring any : random host, etc. security related questions. : : Looking forward to seeing some folks there. : : Thanks, : Jason : : : __ : Do you Yahoo!? : Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears : http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- So in the future, one 'client' at a time or you'll be spending CPU time with lots of little 'child processes'. -- Kevin M. Bealer, commenting on the private life of a Linux nerd ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]tv...
So... watching tv this morning I saw a IBM commercial, thier e-servers they claim for systems that run Linux, and other types too I guess they mean BSD ? Jamie -- Whoa...I did a 'zcat /vmlinuz /dev/audio' and I think I heard God... -- mikecd on #Linux ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Linux Brochure Project
On Friday 24 October 2003 06:53 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : Linux Rocks ! wrote: : Ken, : Ahh... ok, so instead of gettting frustrated, and banging ones head, : let me offer you this suggestion. Ask the moderator (myself or ed) to : simply ignore/decline your messages when you accidently post from the : wrong address. : : You can also ask one of the administrators to go into mailman and : permanently prohibit postings from a given address. Brad, You can also ask one of the administrators to go into mailman and permanently accept postings from a given address. (thus adding this email address to the acceptable posters, without sending list messages to that email address...) I can do this for you if you like. -- I'm an idiot.. At least this [bug] took about 5 minutes to find.. We need to find some new terms to describe the rest of us mere mortals then. -- Craig Schlenter in response to Linus Torvalds's ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Microsoft Earnings Report
This might just be another one of bill's tricks... maybe he's planning on causing his stock prices to drop, so he can go and grab up even more of it at a reduced price... its really hard to say with that guy... he's a devilishly tricky bastard. Jamie On Thursday 23 October 2003 03:51 pm, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote: : All, : : Shares of Microsoft common stock are down today on the heels of their Q4 : earnings report issued today: : : http://sec.thomsonfn.com/sec/SecProd?pid=MzgwYlhOdVAkWQEQUALSTOEQUALSTOtra :nsform=resulttype=resultsdoc_type=REGSTdoc_dcn=03948319cont_format=HTML :cont_qualifier=Cdoc_product=Eviewer=N#r4 : : Here are a few highlights: : : As a result of challenges to our business model, sales of our products : may decline, we may have to reduce the prices we charge for our : products, and our revenues and operating margins may consequently : decline. Since our inception, our business model has been based upon : customers agreeing to pay a fee to license software developed and : distributed by us. : : Also... : : In recent years, there has been a growing challenge to the commercial : software model, often referred to as the Open Source model. Under the : Open Source model, software is produced by loosely associated groups of : unpaid programmers, and the resulting software and the intellectual : property contained therein is licensed to end users at substantially no : cost. The most notable example of Open Source software is the Linux : operating system. While we believe that our products provide customers : with significant advantages in security and productivity, and generally : have a lower total cost of ownership than Open Source software, the : popularization of the Open Source model continues to pose a significant : challenge to our business model, including recent efforts by proponents : of the Open Source model to convince governments worldwide to mandate : the use of Open Source software in their purchase and deployment of : software products. To the extent the Open Source model gains increasing : market acceptance, sales of our products may decline, we may have to : reduce the prices we charge for our products, and revenues and operating : margins may consequently decline. : : Just thought you'd like to know. : : : Best, -- We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds. - Linus Torvalds about the superiority of Linux on the Amterdam Linux Symposium ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Averatec 3150H, laptop...
Good to know... also, I can probably save $35 in sales tax if I purchase online... %5 sales tax on everything you buy in a store here... Theres no haggleing in staples! (I dunno... have you seen any ?) Jamie On Tuesday 21 October 2003 01:21 am, Bob Crandell wrote: : I'm told you can usually get better deals from the online Staples, : although, it's harder to haggle with them. : : Linux Rocks ! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : Yup! Thats the one... : The AVERATEC 3150HW comes with 512M, and wireless, which would be better, : Ive I can get a simular deal. AVERATEC's website shows about $100 : difference in price between the 2 models, but they want $1050 for it..., : and staples doesnt seem to offer the HW model. Maybe calling/emailing : staples will help :) Maybe they would substitute the ram/wireless for the : windows XP! : anyway... for the price it seems like a pretty decent deal... I havnt : found anything else for the price... Its only a 12.1 display... but : heck... $700! : : Jamie : : On Monday 20 October 2003 11:08 pm, Bob Crandell wrote: : : Linux Rocks ! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : : Anyone familiar with this laptop? Ive found it on sale for $699, looks : : like a pretty decent deal... anyone used it with linux? : : : : Jamie : : : : ___ : : : : Did it look like this? Get more memory. : : Looks to me like the modem is the only think you might have trouble : : with. : : : : Comes pre-installed with Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition. : : : :The Mobile AMD Athlon XP-M 1600+ Processor features QuantiSpeed : : Architecture for rapid execution of applications. It has been designed : : for extreme performance with Microsoft® Windows® XP and with the : : PowerNow! Technology you will enjoy extended battery life. : : : :The built-in DVD+CD-RW will make watching DVD's or creating your own : : CD's a breeze by eliminating the need for bulky external drives. : : : :High Speed USB 2.0 accelerates performance. With USB 2.0 you can burn : : CD's up to 6x faster, back up data up to 30x faster, transfer digital : : photos/MP3's 5x faster and even watch and record live full-motion video! : : : :Built-in 56k modem and 10/100 LAN, touchpad scroll buttons streamline : : web surfing and e-mail. : : : : : : Specs : : : : Processor AMD Mobile Athlon XP-M 1600+ Processor with PowerNow! : : Technology and QuantiSpeed Architecture : : Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition : : Display12.1 XGA TFT : : Memory 256 MB DDR : : Hard Drive 30GB : : OpticalCombo DVD+CD-RW : : Communications 56k Modem + 10/100 LAN : : Battery3-Hour Lithium-Ion : : Weight 4.3 lbs : : Dimensions 10.6 x 9.6 x 1.2 : : : : Downloads : : : : download 3150H product specifications : : : : Description : : : : The AVERATEC 3150H : : : : This ultra portable notebook weighs a mere 4.3 lbs and is only 1.2 : : inches thin. With an integrated DVD+CD-RW combo drive it makes mobile : : computing a breeze by eliminating the need for heavy external drives. : : : : The AMD Mobile Athlon XP-M 1600+ Processor will bring you ultimate : : efficiency for your everyday computing needs. With PowerNow! : : Technology, get optimum performance while managing battery consumption : : for extended life. With the use of QuantiSpeed Architecture, you will : : be able to access software applications at rapid speed. : : : : Maximize your performance with Microsoft® Windows® XP Home. With its : : user friendly interface you will be able to make the most of your mobile : : computing experience. Along with features such as USB 2.0 and integrated : : DVD+CD-RW the 3150H is the next generation of portable computing. : : : : AVERATEC 3150H - Mobility made easy! : : : : -- : : Assured Computing : : When you need to be sure. : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : www.assuredcomp.com : : Voice - 541-868-0331 : : FAX - 541-463-1627 : : Eugene, Oregon : : : : : : ___ : : EuG-LUG mailing list : : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : 'Mounten' wird für drei Dinge benutzt: 'Aufsitzen' auf Pferde, : 'einklinken' von Festplatten in Dateisysteme, und, nun, 'besteigen' beim : Sex. : -- Christa Keil : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : Assured Computing : When you need to be sure. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.assuredcomp.com : Voice - 541-868-0331 : FAX - 541-463-1627 : Eugene, Oregon : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;) -- Linus Torvalds, about his failing hard drive on linux.cs.helsinki.fi
[eug-lug]Averatec 3150H, laptop...
Anyone familiar with this laptop? Ive found it on sale for $699, looks like a pretty decent deal... anyone used it with linux? Jamie -- I'm telling you that the kernel is stable not because it's a kernel, but because I refuse to listen to arguments like this. -- Linus Torvalds ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Averatec 3150H, laptop...
Yup! Thats the one... The AVERATEC 3150HW comes with 512M, and wireless, which would be better, Ive I can get a simular deal. AVERATEC's website shows about $100 difference in price between the 2 models, but they want $1050 for it..., and staples doesnt seem to offer the HW model. Maybe calling/emailing staples will help :) Maybe they would substitute the ram/wireless for the windows XP! anyway... for the price it seems like a pretty decent deal... I havnt found anything else for the price... Its only a 12.1 display... but heck... $700! Jamie On Monday 20 October 2003 11:08 pm, Bob Crandell wrote: : Linux Rocks ! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : Anyone familiar with this laptop? Ive found it on sale for $699, looks : like a pretty decent deal... anyone used it with linux? : : Jamie : : ___ : : Did it look like this? Get more memory. : Looks to me like the modem is the only think you might have trouble with. : : Comes pre-installed with Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition. : : The Mobile AMD Athlon XP-M 1600+ Processor features QuantiSpeed : Architecture for rapid execution of applications. It has been designed for : extreme performance with Microsoft® Windows® XP and with the PowerNow! : Technology you will enjoy extended battery life. : : The built-in DVD+CD-RW will make watching DVD's or creating your own CD's : a breeze by eliminating the need for bulky external drives. : : High Speed USB 2.0 accelerates performance. With USB 2.0 you can burn CD's : up to 6x faster, back up data up to 30x faster, transfer digital : photos/MP3's 5x faster and even watch and record live full-motion video! : : Built-in 56k modem and 10/100 LAN, touchpad scroll buttons streamline web : surfing and e-mail. : : : Specs : : Processor AMD Mobile Athlon XP-M 1600+ Processor with PowerNow! : Technology and QuantiSpeed Architecture : Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition : Display 12.1 XGA TFT : Memory256 MB DDR : Hard Drive30GB : Optical Combo DVD+CD-RW : Communications56k Modem + 10/100 LAN : Battery 3-Hour Lithium-Ion : Weight4.3 lbs : Dimensions10.6 x 9.6 x 1.2 : : Downloads : : download 3150H product specifications : : Description : : The AVERATEC 3150H : : This ultra portable notebook weighs a mere 4.3 lbs and is only 1.2 inches : thin. With an integrated DVD+CD-RW combo drive it makes mobile computing a : breeze by eliminating the need for heavy external drives. : : The AMD Mobile Athlon XP-M 1600+ Processor will bring you ultimate : efficiency for your everyday computing needs. With PowerNow! Technology, : get optimum performance while managing battery consumption for extended : life. With the use of QuantiSpeed Architecture, you will be able to access : software applications at rapid speed. : : Maximize your performance with Microsoft® Windows® XP Home. With its user : friendly interface you will be able to make the most of your mobile : computing experience. Along with features such as USB 2.0 and integrated : DVD+CD-RW the 3150H is the next generation of portable computing. : : AVERATEC 3150H - Mobility made easy! : : -- : Assured Computing : When you need to be sure. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.assuredcomp.com : Voice - 541-868-0331 : FAX - 541-463-1627 : Eugene, Oregon : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- 'Mounten' wird für drei Dinge benutzt: 'Aufsitzen' auf Pferde, 'einklinken' von Festplatten in Dateisysteme, und, nun, 'besteigen' beim Sex. -- Christa Keil ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Re: [lug] Scott Kveton Makes Front Page
On Friday 17 October 2003 06:59 am, Jack Morgan wrote: : On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 12:18:44AM -0400, Linux Rocks ! wrote: : Sheehs... thats not even a whole OC-3's worth! What do you do with the : leftover bandwidth ? : : Well, have a look at the stats here: http://www.net.oregonstate.edu/ftp/ So... It looks like they're mirroring suse, knoppix, gentoo, and mandrake now, thats cool, but nolonger mirroring slackware :( all on 2 oc-3's :) Jamie -- [In 'Doctor' mode], I spent a good ten minutes telling Emacs what I thought of it. (The response was, 'Perhaps you could try to be less abusive.') -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]xmms mp3 problem
Is it possible you used xmms to convert wavs to mp3s, and forgot to change the output plugin back from diskwriter to to alsa/oss/esd ? Jamie On Friday 17 October 2003 10:25 am, Dirk Ouellette wrote: : Well I used bladeenc to change wav files to mp3, but I inadvertently : used it to mp3 some mp3 files. Now when I use xmms to play them I can : see xmms working with the graph showing a nice audio wave, but I hear : only white noise! What is going on? : TIA, Dirk : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Keep me informed on the behaviour of this kernel.. As the BugFree(tm) series didn't turn out too well, I'm starting a new series called the ItWorksForMe(tm) series, of which this new kernel is yet another shining example. -- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.29 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]Re: [dclug] Some fun reads...
DOH! I got 2 email's mixed (obviously!) Anyway... Another site Ive been reading a lot of (for fun) is JWZs website. He's done a nice job on the webroot: http://www.jwz.org and has some really funny stuff on his rants (gruntle) http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/ On Friday 17 October 2003 11:37 am, Linux Rocks! wrote: SNI : This one was on the DC LUG site: : http://dclug.tux.org/whyWNT95better.yeahright.html Jamie -- You know you are there when you are known by your first name, and are recognized. Lemmie see, there is Madonna, and Linus, and . help me out here! Bill ? ;-) -- From some postings on comp.os.linux.misc ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Resetting ownership
On Friday 17 October 2003 12:20 pm, Bob Miller wrote: : Bob Crandell wrote: : The other Bob : : I guess that makes me the Other Other Bob. Do we have any other : Other Other Bobs on this list? : : No, I thought you were THE Bob. You know, The great and powerful : ... Do you prefer butter or margine? : : I thought you were a Slackware guy, but you don't know who THE Bob is. : Be careful, or J.R. Bob Dobbs will smite your inode tables. : : I prefer olive oil, BTW. ewww she's soo skinny! She should probably eat more butter! Jamie -- The linuX Files -- The Source is Out There. -- Sent in by Craig S. Bell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Hard Drive Recovery Service needed
Id be interested in hearing about the results. I havnt looked into this for my own needs, but Ive seen companies that do this (on tv), and it was pretty expensive (but remarkable what can be extracted). Alternatively, If you know someone with access to a clean room, you might be able to purchase an identical hard drive, and swap the platters out. Jamie On Thursday 16 October 2003 03:26 am, Darren Hayes wrote: : Any recommends on hard drive recovery services (local or otherwise)? : : 10.2GB AT Quantum Fireball Plus AS went kaput. Customer reported system was : behaving normally then later heard loud noises emanating from hard drive : and then system crashed. On power-up/boot-up heard a few clicking sounds : and POST screen report shows hard drive no longer recognized by hard drive : controller. Hard drive tested on another PC system with same results. : : Unfortunately the last Ghost clone made of the hard drive was on 3-1-02 and : customer would be elated if more recent data on hard drive could be : retrieved. : : Darren : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- There are no threads in a.b.p.erotica, so there's no gain in using a threaded news reader. -- unknown source ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Hard Drive Recovery Service needed
yeah... the show I saw a few years ago said aprox $2,000 was average (some much more) like the laptop that was in the car when it was onfire, then pushed into the river... Jamie On Thursday 16 October 2003 01:07 pm, Cory Petkovsek wrote: : On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 08:29:25AM -0700, Mr O wrote: : PC Pro. He's probably as best as you can get without going out : of state. Recovery is expensive though. You're talking a couple : hundred $$ easily if the data is recoverable. : : That's cheap from what I've heard recently. For recovery in so-cal : someone estimated $1000-1800. : : Cory -- Look, I'm about to buy me a double barreled sawed off shotgun and show Linus what I think about backspace and delete not working. -- some anonymous .signature ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Foam
That was pretty funny... but it begs the question... do you really want to take a bath or go swimming with that thing? Im not going first! Hmm... maybe If I did that with the craptop? Jamie On Thursday 16 October 2003 07:46 pm, Bob Crandell wrote: : Hi, : : For those who like to modify computer cases. : : http://www.g-news.ch/articles/nhp200nc/ : : Bob : : -- : Assured Computing : When you need to be sure. : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.assuredcomp.com : Voice - 541-868-0331 : FAX - 541-463-1627 : Eugene, Oregon : : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Microsoft Corp., concerned by the growing popularity of the free 32-bit operating system for Intel systems, Linux, has employed a number of top programmers from the underground world of virus development. Bill Gates stated yesterday: World domination, fast -- it's either us or Linus. Mr. Torvalds was unavailable for comment ... -- Robert Manners, [EMAIL PROTECTED], in comp.os.linux.setup ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Re: [lug] Scott Kveton Makes Front Page
Sheehs... thats not even a whole OC-3's worth! What do you do with the leftover bandwidth ? Jamie On Thursday 16 October 2003 04:17 pm, Scott Kveton wrote: : It's a very busy server right now. I can tell you right now we're : putting out 120 megabytes a second which might impress some people, : Kveton said. : : I'm sure you're all sitting there asking yourselves ... hmmm ... 120 : megabytes?! That's a lot ... :-) : : Well, its in fact only 120Mbit/s ... sorry to burst the bubble ... of : course to the reporter bits and bytes are all dorkage so ... haha ... : : :-) : : Scott :-) : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- ... faster BogoMIPS calculations (yes, it now boots 2 seconds faster than it used to: we're considering changing the name from Linux to InstaBOOT -- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.26 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]Slack9.1
So... after spending the day backing up stuff, and installing Slack 9.1, I am finally enjoying buckets_of_erogenous_nym... I once again had trouble with enlightenment and gdm, however doing a web search came up with the post I made to the list a few months ago, which got me back in business (although some files have changed places in this version...) Anyway... so far 9.1 seems ok... newer versions of my fav programs :) Jamie -- ..you could spend *all day* customizing the title bar. Believe me. I speak from experience. -- Matt Welsh ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]hard drive deal at Office Depot
Thanks... good to know... Ive never had a samsung. I've always found seagate to be a good choice. Jamie On Tuesday 14 October 2003 11:18 am, Mr O wrote: : Samsung's are slw. For performance in an IDE drive you'll : want an 8mb cache Maxtor or Seagate. : : --- Jamie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : I just looked at pricewatch, and that is as low as they have : (plus no : waiting), and the 160's they show are 2mb cache. when you : scroll down to find : ones with 8mb cache, they are $110. : the ones listed are samsung, maxtor comes up w/8mb cache @ : $118 : : are samsung any good ? : : Jamie : : __ : Do you Yahoo!? : The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search : http://shopping.yahoo.com : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- 'Mounten' wird für drei Dinge benutzt: 'Aufsitzen' auf Pferde, 'einklinken' von Festplatten in Dateisysteme, und, nun, 'besteigen' beim Sex. -- Christa Keil ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]hard drive deal at Office Depot
Now thats working the web! good going Ben! Thanks for tips on the websites... as a side note, I used the web to see the movie Kill Bill. I asked the nice lady at the bank what theaters were decent around here (you can get shot driving or parking in the wrong neigborhood around here!) she recommend a couple, then I used the web to get directions (yes, ive been using mapquest a lot!). Not only did I find the theatres website, but I was also able to reserve my ticket, and purchase it online (I saw it the day it was released... I figured lines would be horrible...) It worked out really smooth. I walked right into the theater, put my card in a machine, and it printed out my ticket. no muss, no fuss. As a side note, movies are pretty expensive out here! ($9 + .75 for online ordering), and $3 for a bottle of water! (and the water wasnt anywhere near as good as it is in eugene) Anyway... the whole thing was under $20, and I had a good time... Jamie On Tuesday 14 October 2003 11:02 am, Ben Barrett wrote: : Well a few weeks ago, I saw a similar deal (IIRC it was also at Office : Depot) on a Maxtor Ultra 160GB, with 7200rpm and 8mb cache (ata-133 as : well), for only $79 after rebates. And *yes*, my rebate *is* being : processed. It started with a web coupon, which cut another $20 off the : special deal that 'Depot had running in the sunday print ads... then a : mfg rebate from Maxtor. So no, that is not the best deal, or the best : drive for the money. : : While we're on the subject, I'll plug dealnews.com again, as it has made : a true capitalist out of me 8-P A friend also pointed me to : gotapex.com recently, which I hadn't heard of. Disclaimer: I'm not : ashamed of my web resources, nor do I commercially endorse them! : : regards, : :Ben : : : PS - don't forget dealcoupon.com, it is in the dealnews family and handy : when you've already decided to go with a specific retailer... : for instance, follow this link and observe the code in the upper-right : corner; this is $20 of $75 for *non-technology* items, a currently : running promotion: : http://dealcoupon.com/coupons/20771.html : : This one looks to be a flat $20 off $100, might work for the HD: : http://dealcoupon.com/coupons/20615.html : BTW, I was able to use the web coupon code while placing my order over : the phone with the local store; this way I avoided shipping and also : processed my order before their measly stock of drives ran out ( = : So $80, with rebates. Prolly the same drive... : : : On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:42:39 -0400 : : Jamie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | I just looked at pricewatch, and that is as low as they have (plus no : | waiting), and the 160's they show are 2mb cache. when you scroll down : | to find ones with 8mb cache, they are $110. : | the ones listed are samsung, maxtor comes up w/8mb cache @ $118 : | : | are samsung any good ? : | : | Jamie : | : | On Monday 13 October 2003 09:43 pm, Mr O wrote: : | : With or without rebates? : | : : | : --- Bob Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | : I was in Office Depot yesterday, and they have 160 Gb Maxtor : | : hard : | : drives on sale for $99. That's 62 cents a gigabyte. These : | : are 7200 : | : RPM, 8 MB cache drives, sorry I don't remember the exact : | : number. : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Other than the fact Linux has a cool name, could someone explain why I should use Linux over BSD? No. That's it. The cool name, that is. We worked very hard on creating a name that would appeal to the majority of people, and it certainly paid off: thousands of people are using linux just to be able to say OS/2? Hah. I've got Linux. What a cool name. 386BSD made the mistake of putting a lot of numbers and weird abbreviations into the name, and is scaring away a lot of people just because it sounds too technical. -- Linus Torvalds' follow-up to a question about Linux ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]linux.net plays the hotmail card.
I just checked out the site... pretty cool. The pc larry mentions is a 1.3 ghz amd duron (not 1.8, although it does kind of look like an 8 not a 3. heres the specs on the Linare PC: 1.3 GHz AMD Processor 128 MB RAM 30 GB Hard disk Mouse Keyboard Speakers Ethernet Interface Walmart has been selling linux pc's also (online only, dont bother walking in...) Here are their $199 computer specs: Sysmar417 (also sysmar550 is simular) AMD Duron 1.2 GHz processor with 3DNow! technology 200 MHz frontside bus 128 MB SDRAM, expandable to 1 GB 133 MHz memory speed 20 GB Ultra-DMA hard drive, 5400 rpm (total accessible capacity varies depending on operating environment) 52x CD-ROM drive Integrated video with up to 8 MB shared video memory Integrated AC97 Soft Audio Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection They seem about comparable, the walmart ones come with a cdrom, but smaller hard disk. Both come with speakers, mouse, keyboard, and linux installed. I also noticed that walmart now sells computers with SuSE installed too! Jamie Larry Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if you have any need for yet another email address, some company called linare.com is launching a free (ad-supported) email service @linux.net Linare corporation actually looks pretty interesting as they are launching a $199 linux based pc 1.8ghz 128MB They are based in Redmond... WA Anyone on this list know anything about them? -- The Internet is falling --C. Little 2003 ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Borders
There was another aspect I didnt mention... When you have a problem with your comptuer, you cant call up tech support (unless you've bought a support contract with one of the few linux support companies), but when you call MS or manufacturer support, they just waste your time anyway. Spend an hour on hold, then when you do get someone, they make you do a bunch of things that often dont help... With linux, There is a plethora of support (mainly internet related however), local LUG's, mailing lists, newsgroups, IRC, websites (google is your friend!) I often resolve small issues in less than one minute from a simple web search. Note: several years ago (when finishing my degree in user support) We were provided with a very interesting statistic (this was regarding to windows 95/98): 40% of tech support calls were resolved with Reboot your computer. just a guess, but now its probably restore settings from a few days ago. Support under linux may be unoficial, and rather adhoc, but Ive noticed that its much more effective. Jamie On Sunday 12 October 2003 04:32 pm, Mr O wrote: : Shutdown your machine, unplug your PS/2 mouse and plug in a USB : mouse. Upon startup, launch 'X' and watch in puke because it : can't find your pointing device. :) Then fire up lynx, hit : google, and find the settings you need for a USB mouse. Edit : your XF86Config and you're a happy camper. So... in linux you : can have problems but solutions are more fun to find. : : : : --- Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : with linux, you never have those problems : : : __ : Do you Yahoo!? : The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search : http://shopping.yahoo.com : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Let's call it an accidental feature. -- Larry Wall ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]javascript redhat 9
mplayer is pretty decent... I use it :)
Jamie
On Sunday 12 October 2003 08:09 am, Mr O wrote:
: Grab the latest Mozilla, click on the link. If you need a plugin
: (not normally for javascript) it'll tell you or start
: downloading a bunch of strange text. Looks to me like it wants
: you to pick a media player. I'd look at getting the mplayer
: plugin to handle a majority of that stuff and/or Realplayer for
: linux.
:
: On Saturday, October 11, 2003, at 08:52 PM, Dirk Ouellette
:
: wrote:
: How in the world do I get this url to work in Galeon,
:
: javascript:getStaticMedia('/asc/asc45/20031006_asc_asc45','RM,WM');
:
:
:
: __
: Do you Yahoo!?
: The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
: http://shopping.yahoo.com
: ___
: EuG-LUG mailing list
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
--
Let's call it an accidental feature.
-- Larry Wall
___
EuG-LUG mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Borders
Joseph, as usual, your making incorrect assumptions. I never mentioned slackware (or debian for that matter...) to her, nor in my message. The fact that she couldnt even install a mouse leads me to belive that she couldnt install windows, or linux, so why should I assume she would be installing linux herself? If she wants to curse me for blowing her windows partition, when all I said is that with linux, you never have those problems (I also suggested a mac... (lets face it, even joseph can use a mac!) then she's probably about as dumb as someone that makes stupid assumptions! Jamie On Saturday 11 October 2003 03:11 pm, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 04:29:21PM -0700, Linux Rocks ! wrote: : funny... I talked to someone that was having a bad MS day too... I was in : staples getting blanks ($9.99/50). She was complaining that she needed a : new mouse because the new mouse she got didnt work. everytime she would : turn the computer on, the mouse didnt work, but the new hardware wizard : poped up, and she couldnt click anything. she would shutdown the : computer, start it up, and repeat that same process over and over... I : told her that w/linux, you dont ever have that problem! : : And now she's going to go out and get slackware and hate it and curse you : when she finds out that it blew away her windows partition.. : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- There are two types of Linux developers - those who can spell, and those who can't. There is a constant pitched battle between the two. -- From one of the post-1.1.54 kernel update messages posted to c.o.l.a ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]javascript redhat 9
On that note... you might check out #linux on IRC, (sorry, cant remember the server...) there was a guy that was often online that did support for real, and he was pretty helpful. Jamie On Sunday 12 October 2003 10:03 am, Larry Price wrote: : I think Dirk is really asking about playing : Real Audio Media : under Red Hat. : : A quick poke at RealOne's website causes me to : to think that anything coming out of that company should be avoided : like the plague : : This Page ought to help you if you must : http://forms.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html : : BUT: : : NOTICE: RealNetworks has provided this software at the request of : customers in the UNIX community. In addition, RealNetworks does not : guarantee functionality, maintenance, upgrades, fixes, or suitability : for any purpose. : : : : This software is not formally supported by RealNetworks. However, a : special public forum has been provided by RealNetworks to give users of : these products a place to share their thoughts and experiences. We : encourage you to use this forum for this purpose. : : : However THIS might be a better resource : https://player.helixcommunity.org/?from=forms : : On Sunday, October 12, 2003, at 09:32 AM, Bob Miller wrote: : Ben Barrett wrote: : No, use Firebird! No, use Konqueror! Netscape! It doesn't matter; : so long as use enable javascript support aa well as setup the : media plugins you want. I'd suggest mplayer, but the : Heck, you might even get it to work from lynx or links, text-mode : browsers. I presume you know about bookmarklets; you can have this : link on your toolbar in a number of browsers this way... : : In Mozilla and Firebird (not sure about Galeon), popup windows are : disabled by default. You have to enable them in your preferences : before they'll work. : : Check Galeon for a preference setting for pop-ups. : : -- : Bob Miller Kbob : kbobsoft software consulting : http://kbobsoft.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug : : -- : The Internet is falling --C. Little 2003 : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Let's call it an accidental feature. -- Larry Wall ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Today's KDE Tip
Thats funny... I just saw that yesterday from the panel menu (actually, I use gnome panel under E!), Theres a KDE menu at the bottom of my gnome-applications panel, under the kde menu, select: settings-modules/System Administration/Linux Kernel. I havnt used it, but its nice to see it :) Jamie On Sunday 12 October 2003 10:37 am, Bob Miller wrote: : Look, I'm not trying to sell anyone on KDE, I just keep finding these : really weird and useful things in it. GNOME is good. Enlightenment : and fluxbox and fvwm and all the rest are good. CDE is -- well, it's : okay with me if you use CDE, so long as you don't make me use it too.* : : Today's discovery is that you can configure your kernel from within : the KDE Control Center. : : Open the Control Center by clicking the wrench icon at the bottom of : the screen, then selecting Control Center from the menu that pops up. : Then open the Linux Kernel Configurator by clicking System : Administration - Linux Kernel. : : It's a nicer interface than make xconfig, and next time I need to : tweak some kernel parameters, I definitely plan to use it. : : I'm using KDE 3.1.4. I don't know whether this is in earlier versions. : : * In a previous life, I worked with an engineer who liked CDE. We : would work in her cube, and take turns driving, and both of us would : get completely frustrated with the mechanics of moving windows : around and getting the useful stuff to where we could see it. We'd : work in my cube (I think I was running some old version of KDE), and : work would get done much quicker. It got to the point where we'd : both agree to move to my cube to do nontrivial amounts of work. But : she never thought about switching away from CDE. It was some kind : of blind spot. -- On a normal ascii line, the only safe condition to detect is a 'BREAK' - everything else having been assigned functions by Gnu EMACS. -- Tarl Neustaedter ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gentoo: keeping a package unmasked
I was only able to find a couple screenshots, and one (jwz.org) was really small), the other wasnt a very good screenshot... anyone have any decent screen shots? Gee... wonder when the red/green 3Dglmatrix is going to be available :) Jamie On Sunday 12 October 2003 11:23 am, Bob Miller wrote: : Recently, someone (either Mr. O or Larry) showed me the glmatrix : screen saver. It's part of the latest xscreensaver release, : and it's pretty cool. : : It wasn't on my Gentoo box, because the latest unmasked xscreensaver : is 4.10. So I brought in the unstable version, 4.13: : : # env ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge xscreensaver : : Today I have emerge syncd and I want to update world, but don't want : xscreensaver to revert to 4.10. I can't figure out how to do that. : : How can I permanently declare that I want xscreensaver at rev. 4.13 : without changing my whole box to unstable? : : Thanks... -- I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few months. I just love debugging ;-) -- Linus Torvalds ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Borders
Oh... yeah, you can definetly have problems while using linux, I never said you cant have problems. I said you never have those problems (like where you turn your computer on, you get a new hardware found, please reboot your computer - rinse, lather, repeat. Where your machine is in an endless cycle of not installing the driver for a mouse, and rebooting anyway. I have had a simular problem with fsck, where it booted, fsck'd, then gave you a few options, and it never fixed the file system (which meant that it would do this everytime it booted, and would only boot into RO mode. Disabling fdisk at boot was the only way I figurd out to fix it (yes, I did try fdisking manually, but even when it sucessfully fdisked, it still did the fdisk at boot, and failed!) I did also explain to the woman, that some windows devices require you to install the softwar first, then shut down the computer, then start the computer (so when it autodetects the new hardware, it can find the driver). Which is also what I would suggest in your example too... why not configure your your mouse, then shut down and swap the hardware? Jamie Mr O [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shutdown your machine, unplug your PS/2 mouse and plug in a USB mouse. Upon startup, launch 'X' and watch in puke because it can't find your pointing device. :) Then fire up lynx, hit google, and find the settings you need for a USB mouse. Edit your XF86Config and you're a happy camper. So... in linux you can have problems but solutions are more fun to find. --- Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with linux, you never have those problems __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Gentoo: keeping a package unmasked
Nice :) I like it! If I can manage to get things backed up tonite, Ill install slack9.1, I hope it comes with slack9.1 :) Ill have to have that! It looks like it does a 3d motion (simular to rock or is that rotor?) Jamie Bob Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Linux Rocks ! wrote: I was only able to find a couple screenshots, and one (jwz.org) was really small), the other wasnt a very good screenshot... anyone have any decent screen shots? Gee... wonder when the red/green 3Dglmatrix is going to be available :) http://chezgeek.euglug.net/~kbob/glmatrix/ -- Bob Miller Kbob kbobsoft software consulting http://kbobsoft.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug].PHP FILES
Played? do you mean PHP Hypertext Preprocessor? as in webpages? if so, I think any modern browser and parse PHP just fine. I think even lynx/link does! If you mean something other than webpages, please send more details... Jamie Dirk Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can .php files be played in linux? If so, how? Thanks, Dirk ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Borders
Ken Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 04:29:21PM -0700, Linux Rocks ! wrote: : I talked to someone that was having a bad MS day : [snip] I told her that w/linux, you dont : ever have that problem! On Saturday 11 October 2003 03:11 pm, T. Joseph Carter wrote: : And now she's going to go out and get slackware and hate it : and curse you when she finds out that it blew away her : windows partition.. On Sunday 12 October 2003 14:35, Linux Rocks ! wrote: Joseph, as usual, your making incorrect assumptions. I never mentioned slackware [steadily increasing flamage snipped] Boys, boys getting a little hotheaded here, aren't you? I HOPE Joseph was joking. 'Coz if he wasn't, he still shouldn't be taken seriously Joking? I dont think aserting that I would be so irresponsible as to try to get someone to wreck their computer/data as funny. do you? If this were the first time joseph had said something like that, I might have been more polite, however he has made simular remarks in the past, and I havnt really done anything about it, so... I guess he feels comfortable making such comment about me. I feel its time he get over his problem (whatever it is), and stop making stupid comments regarding me. Ill continue this with him offlist. Im sorry to offend anyone on the list with such nonesense. Jamie ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Borders
funny... I talked to someone that was having a bad MS day too... I was in staples getting blanks ($9.99/50). She was complaining that she needed a new mouse because the new mouse she got didnt work. everytime she would turn the computer on, the mouse didnt work, but the new hardware wizard poped up, and she couldnt click anything. she would shutdown the computer, start it up, and repeat that same process over and over... I told her that w/linux, you dont ever have that problem! Jamie On Saturday 11 October 2003 09:07 am, Edward Craig wrote: : Borders Books and Music is giving 25% off all purchases to : educators. I got mine for claiming EUGLUG as an educational venture. : Being able to claim OCF vouchers helped, but slamming Microsoft helped : more, I think (the person accepting applications had recently had a very : bad time with Windows crashes). : : They were being a bit lax, accepting Sunday school and such. -- Be warned that typing \fBkillall \fIname\fP may not have the desired effect on non-Linux systems, especially when done by a privileged user. -- From the killall manual page ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
[eug-lug]posting with the wrong addy...
Doh! There I go using the wrong email address... see how it still posts anyway
:)
On Sunday 12 October 2003 12:42 am, Jamie wrote:
: Dirk,
: The issue has nothing to do with RedScat, its galeon that is the issue. Im
: not well versed in galeon, you may need to 'enable' java, or javascript in
: galeon's config. Im sorry I dont have a step by step example of how to do
: that, surely galeon has a help section (might just poke around in you
: galeon settings).
:
: Jamie
:
: On Saturday 11 October 2003 08:52 pm, Dirk Ouellette wrote:
: : How in the world do I get this url to work in Galeon, RedHat 9? What
: : should be the precise set of actions? What should I have installed and
: : where?
: : Thanks, Dirk
: :
: : javascript:getStaticMedia('/asc/asc45/20031006_asc_asc45','RM,WM');
: :
: :
: : ___
: : EuG-LUG mailing list
: : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
--
Let's call it an accidental feature.
-- Larry Wall
___
EuG-LUG mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Linux Brochure Project
Ken, Ahh... ok, so instead of gettting frustrated, and banging ones head, let me offer you this suggestion. Ask the moderator (myself or ed) to simply ignore/decline your messages when you accidently post from the wrong address. I did this myself, so I know that this metheod works! BTW, I didnt aprove your mesages, im not trying to mess with your head or anything... ed does almost all of the aproving/disaproving. While Im on the subject, lets all thank ed for doing an excellent job moderating this list all these years! Thanks Ed! Jamie On Thursday 09 October 2003 09:39 pm, Ken Barber wrote: : On Thursday 09 October 2003 17:31, Linux Rocks ! wrote: : Ken, : Whats up with the duplicate posting? Ive noticed it a few : times before. This time its 2 minutes apart. : : AAARRRGH! gnashing teeth : : What's happening is that I forget to change my From: address : before hitting send. So the friendly server at efn politely : informs me that it's holding my response to the list because it's : from an address that isn't subscribed to the list. : : Well, that's fine with me, because I don't want my normal email : address showing up on any web sites -- including the archive of : this list. : : So after hitting my forehead and saying DOH! and a swear word or : two, I resubmit the message with the return address that I want : the world seeing (the one that's getting spam anyway). : : Everything's fine. Then the moderator of the list approves the : first posting! : : So my new, (so far spam-free) email address is now on a couple of : web pages (this list's archive) thanks to me making the same : stupid mistake twice in a row. : : RGH! gnashing teeth : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds. - Linus Torvalds about the superiority of Linux on the Amterdam Linux Symposium ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]MP3 players
Yeah.. When I copied the details of this device into a google search (iRiver, iFP-195T) that page was the only one that came up... I thought it was pretty funny... anyway, if you scroll down about the only english characters on that page are: OS WIN98SE/ME/2000/XP the rest of the page didnt make any sense to me, but ironicly it was the only part I needed! Jamie On Thursday 09 October 2003 11:07 pm, Ben Barrett wrote: : Woah, I dunno what you could find out from that page -- although it : appears to be a Romanian domain, the character encoding is Korean on my : end (I don't read Korean!). A little googling of iriver mp3 linux led : me to the links below, which seem to indicate that there already exists : a firmware update for the device, which allows it to [desirably] operate : as a usb mass storage device, and thus be accessed by linux. : : http://www.freebsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10846 : (some folks had trouble though!) : : http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shopping/pages/index.html : : further googling (adding support mass storage to prev terms) yielded : this gem: : : http://openglforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=25112 : : as well as a recent /. thread about iriver's new 20gb product, which : does ogg! see: : : http://slashdot.org/articles/03/09/30/006226.shtml : : : So... I picked up this neat O'Reilly mini-ref book, about how to use : google. Would anyone care to borrow it? I wouldn't say it helped me : accomplish this info-gathering, but maybe it would help? I don't mean : to be condescending here, there are many times I ask the list for its : collective wisdom w/o googling first, but it is a cool book = ) : -like many other o'reilly refs, no astounding info but handy to have it : in non-digital tree-form for offline perusal : : cheers and rock on! : :Ben : : : On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:23:38 -0700 : : Linux Rocks ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : | Does this answer your question ? : | : | http://mino.iam.ro/mview.php?guid=181 : | I can see this much: : | OS WIN98SE/ME/2000/XP : | : | so... I cant say it will, but maybe redhats support can tell you : | better. : | : | Jamie : | : | On Thursday 09 October 2003 06:49 pm, Dirk Ouellette wrote: : | : iRiver iFP-195T... : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Let's call it an accidental feature. -- Larry Wall ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Duplicate postings from the wrong address
Ken, I use kmail too, and have noticed simular irregularities. It used to use the email address associated with the folder, but now it seems to use the most recently sent email address instead... weirdness! There is an option (this address is for a mailing list it think it was called) that handled that... Mine probably doesnst work right because I upgraded, and used the old config files from previous version... Since I didnt care about which email apears, my solution was to include both email addresses on the list, but the [EMAIL PROTECTED] not get postings from the list. Regarding the list archive: That is handled throught the website, I belive rob set that up, but its been so long since that was setup, I cant remember. Its probably not worth the hassle to get them removed though, and may not really be possible. Even if it is removed, search engines like google archive stuff (cached) so that information can still be retrieved even if the archive is modified to remove your email address. Jamie On Friday 10 October 2003 10:05 am, Ken Barber wrote: : On Friday 10 October 2003 06:47, Linux Rocks ! wrote: : Ken, : Ahh... ok, so instead of gettting frustrated, and banging ones : head, let me offer you this suggestion. Ask the moderator : (myself or ed) to simply ignore/decline your messages when you : accidently post from the wrong address. I did this myself, so I : know that this metheod works! : : Thanks. Now that I know who the moderators are, I can ask. : : What's frustrating is that my mail client (KMail) used to behave : correctly in situations such as this. When replying to a : message, it would set my sender's identity to be the same as that : of the address to which the original email was sent. : : Now I get to poke through config files, source code and : who-knows-what else to find out how to fix it. : : Now, I have one more request: would it be possible to remove my : posts with the peak.org return address from the web archives? : (seeing as how they're dupes anyway) If not, I shall accept your : decision gracefully. : : Thanks, : : Ken : : ___ : EuG-LUG mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug -- Linux! Guerrilla UNIX Development Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus. -- Mark A. Horton KA4YBR, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
Re: [eug-lug]Linux Brochure Project
Ken,
Whats up with the duplicate posting? Ive noticed it a few times before. This
time its 2 minutes apart.
Jamie
On Thursday 09 October 2003 10:18 am, Ken Barber wrote:
: On Thursday 09 October 2003 12:56, Linux Rocks ! wrote:
: I'll assume you mean the beautiful gift of linux. I agree...
: it was funny for about 15 minutes, and seth printed way to many
: of them (like 5000 or something) many years later we still have
: about %75 of them...
:
: Really? I'd like to have a few of 'em... I think they're a
: great spoof on the Jack Chick tracts (chick.com, if you can hold
: your stomach long enough to look at the site) that are like
: frickin' catnip for Christians
:
: Ken
:
: ___
: EuG-LUG mailing list
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
--
if (argc 1 strcmp(argv[1], -advice) == 0) {
printf(Don't Panic!\n);
exit(42);
}
-- Arnold Robbins in the LJ of February '95, describing RCS
___
EuG-LUG mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
