Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
definition of this notion, quite similar to the inconsistent definition often given for free-will. The comparison 1) mental vs. physical with 2) natural. vs. artificial could probably help. Comparison on what measure? On casual power of mental. Without mental power, there would

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 May 2013, at 15:53, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 16.05.2013 15:50 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 16 May 2013, at 08:00, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 15.05.2013 21:02 meekerdb said the following: On 5/15/2013 12:02 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 21:45 meekerdb said the

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 May 2013, at 11:01, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-17 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:24:30AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: A, B, C, D, ... are conventional names for recognizable physical signals in the message we got. Can you decode it? It is the inverse of cryptography. The idea is that such a message can be understood by any patient enough (Löbian)

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 May 2013, at 11:58, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:24:30AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: A, B, C, D, ... are conventional names for recognizable physical signals in the message we got. Can you decode it? It is the inverse of cryptography. The idea is that such a

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-16 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 15.05.2013 21:02 meekerdb said the following: On 5/15/2013 12:02 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 21:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following:

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-16 Thread meekerdb
On 5/15/2013 11:00 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 15.05.2013 21:02 meekerdb said the following: On 5/15/2013 12:02 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 21:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-16 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
not know. This would be exactly the goal to understand such a statement better. The comparison 1) mental vs. physical with 2) natural. vs. artificial could probably help. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 May 2013, at 08:00, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 15.05.2013 21:02 meekerdb said the following: On 5/15/2013 12:02 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 21:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-16 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 16.05.2013 15:50 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 16 May 2013, at 08:00, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 15.05.2013 21:02 meekerdb said the following: On 5/15/2013 12:02 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 21:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-16 Thread meekerdb
the goal to understand such a statement better. Why not just understand it is not true. The comparison 1) mental vs. physical with 2) natural. vs. artificial could probably help. Comparison on what measure? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-16 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
) mental vs. physical with 2) natural. vs. artificial could probably help. Comparison on what measure? On casual power of mental. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-15 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.05.2013 21:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... If you are monist, that distinction is

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-15 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.05.2013 23:45 John Mikes said the following: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: ... * The difference between natural and artificial is ... artificial. And thus it is natural ... for creatures which are developing some ego. artificial is a human

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-15 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.05.2013 21:29 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... In the last case, a male bird catches a fish and gives it to the bride. Could we consider a fish as a sign in this case? I do not know what happens under comp but I personally see no

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-15 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 May 2013, at 22:26, meekerdb wrote: On 5/14/2013 1:18 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 21:45, meekerdb wrote: They have the special status of being humans. Sure, like termites have the special status of being termites. And we could define a word termiticial to

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-15 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 May 2013, at 23:45, John Mikes wrote: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-15 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 15 May 2013, at 09:08, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 21:29 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... In the last case, a male bird catches a fish and gives it to the bride. Could we consider a fish as a sign in this case? I do not

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-15 Thread meekerdb
On 5/15/2013 12:02 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 21:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Recently I have listened to a nice talk about the search of extraterrestrial intelligence

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Recently I have listened to a nice talk

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.05.2013 11:01 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... The author failed to make definitions for artificial and natural. Could you define these terms? The

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 14.05.2013 11:01 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... The author failed to make

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.05.2013 13:39 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 14.05.2013 11:01 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I am interested in the difference between natural and artificial. So a computer both natural and artificial. Do you know things that are just natural and where the term artificial is not applicable? If yes, what is the difference in your

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I am interested in the difference between natural and artificial. So a computer both natural and artificial. Do you know things that are just natural and where the term artificial is not

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I am interested in the difference between natural and artificial. So a computer both natural and artificial. Do you know things that are

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread meekerdb
On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I am interested in the difference between natural and artificial. So a computer both natural and

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 May 2013, at 21:45, meekerdb wrote: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I am interested in the difference between natural

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread meekerdb
On 5/14/2013 1:18 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 21:45, meekerdb wrote: On 5/14/2013 12:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 May 2013, at 19:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.05.2013 16:51 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 14 May 2013, at 15:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I am

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-14 Thread John Mikes
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 18:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Recently I have listened to a nice talk

Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Recently I have listened to a nice talk about the search of extraterrestrial intelligence http://embryogenesisexplained.com/2013/03/the-starivore-hypothesis.html The author has mentioned two fallacies (slides 6 and 7) Artificiality-of-the-gaps and Naturality-of-the-gaps However, I was

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Recently I have listened to a nice talk about the search of extraterrestrial intelligence http://embryogenesisexplained.com/2013/03/the-starivore-hypothesis.html The author has mentioned two fallacies (slides 6 and 7)

Re: Natural vs. Artificial

2013-05-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 13.05.2013 17:41 Telmo Menezes said the following: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Recently I have listened to a nice talk about the search of extraterrestrial intelligence http://embryogenesisexplained.com/2013/03/the-starivore-hypothesis.html