On 27 Dec 2012, at 20:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/27/2012 3:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
This is intuitive and amenable to thought experience, like the
experience of the blind Mary which studies many books on color and
qualia and still has any clue what it is like to be a seeing person.
I
On 27 Dec 2012, at 20:13, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/27/2012 3:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Dec 2012, at 20:58, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/26/2012 1:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 24 Dec 2012, at 19:30, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/24/2012 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
We don't have to bet the
On 12/27/2012 3:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
This is intuitive and amenable to thought experience, like the experience of the blind
Mary which studies many books on color and qualia and still has any clue what it is like
to be a seeing person.
I think Dennett is right when he says our intuition
On 12/27/2012 3:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Dec 2012, at 20:58, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/26/2012 1:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 24 Dec 2012, at 19:30, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/24/2012 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
We don't have to bet the brain is (Turing universal), we can prove it.
On 26 Dec 2012, at 21:03, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/26/2012 1:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
John,
On 24 Dec 2012, at 21:16, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno and Brent:
we T H I N K we have an idea what 'qualia' may be and ACCEPT our
figment on 'quanta' (i.e numbered 'objects' - figments as well).
N
On 26 Dec 2012, at 20:58, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/26/2012 1:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 24 Dec 2012, at 19:30, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/24/2012 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
We don't have to bet the brain is (Turing universal), we can
prove it.
Can we? How would you prove than every pe
On 12/26/2012 1:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
John,
On 24 Dec 2012, at 21:16, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno and Brent:
we T H I N K we have an idea what 'qualia' may be and ACCEPT our figment on 'quanta'
(i.e numbered 'objects' - figments as well).
None of the two(?) are closer to the essence (re
On 12/26/2012 1:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 24 Dec 2012, at 19:30, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/24/2012 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
We don't have to bet the brain is (Turing universal), we can prove it.
Can we? How would you prove than every person's brain can compute every computable
functi
John,
On 24 Dec 2012, at 21:16, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno and Brent:
we T H I N K we have an idea what 'qualia' may be and ACCEPT our
figment on 'quanta' (i.e numbered 'objects' - figments as well).
None of the two(?) are closer to the essence (read: 'truth') we just
got better used (evol
On 24 Dec 2012, at 19:30, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/24/2012 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
We don't have to bet the brain is (Turing universal), we can prove
it.
Can we? How would you prove than every person's brain can compute
every computable function?
By teaching them to reduce combinat
Bruno and Brent:
we T H I N K we have an idea what 'qualia' may be and ACCEPT our figment
on 'quanta' (i.e numbered 'objects' - figments as well).
None of the two(?) are closer to the essence (read: 'truth') we just got
better used (evolved?) to quantitative thinking and language concerning
suc
On 12/24/2012 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
We don't have to bet the brain is (Turing universal), we can prove it.
Can we? How would you prove than every person's brain can compute every
computable function?
Brent
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From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-24, 05:36:51
Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
On 24 Dec 2012, at 00:31, meekerdb wrote:
> On 12/23/2012 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>> On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:22, meekerdb wrote:
>>
&
On 24 Dec 2012, at 00:31, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/23/2012 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:22, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/26/2012 6:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote:
Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think
color can
On 12/23/2012 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:22, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/26/2012 6:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote:
Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color can be
communicated and we have an "RGB" language
On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:22, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/26/2012 6:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote:
Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think
color can be communicated and we have an "RGB" language for doing
so that makes it more quanta th
: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-27, 09:01:08
Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
On 26 Oct 2012, at 13:51, Roger Clough wrote:
> Hi meekerdb
>
> Quanta do exist, and can be measured,
> but by definition they can only be experienced as qualia,
>
>> >> > than its color?.The fact that the position and radius of
the circle
>> >> > can be measured and communicated does not change the fact
that they
>> >> > produce a subjective perception. so they are also qualia.
Then the
>> >> >
tent -
From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-25, 12:57:11
Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color
can be communicated
and we have an "RGB" language for doing so that makes it more quanta
than
;> >> more
>> >> > public it is. Simple as that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Craig
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Brent
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 10/25/2012 6:11 A
time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Alberto G. Corona
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-25, 09:11:40
Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
I agree.
is there something that can be perceived that is not qualia? It?
less qualia the shape
>> >> > than its color?.The fact that the position and radius of the
circle
>> >> > can be measured and communicated does not change the fact
that they
>> >> > produce a subjective perception. so they are also qualia.
Then the
>> >> > questi
On 10/26/2012 6:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote:
Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color can be
communicated and we have an "RGB" language for doing so that makes it more quanta than
qualia. So extending your point to Schrodin
ceiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-25, 12:57:11
Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color can be
communicated
and we have an "RGB" language for doing so that makes it more quanta than
qualia. So
extending your p
ialist stance?, the
question
> is why some qualia are measurable and comunicable in a mentalist
> stance, where every perception is in the mind, including the
> perception that I have a head with a brain?
>
> 2012/10/25 Roger Clough>:
>> Dennett and others on qualia
&g
luding the
perception that I have a head with a brain?
2012/10/25 Roger Clough:
Dennett and others on qualia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia#Daniel_Dennett
1) Schroedinger on qualia.
"Examples of qualia are the pain of a headache, the taste of wine,
the experience of taking a recreatio
long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-25, 12:57:11
Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color can b
: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-25, 12:38:57
Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
On 10/25/2012 5:17 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
2) Dennett on qualia
"In Consciousness Explained (1991) and "Quining Qualia" (1988),[19] Daniel
Dennett offers an argument agains
ubject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia
I agree.
is there something that can be perceived that is not qualia? It?
less qualia the shape and location of a circle in ha sheet of paper
than its color?.The fact that the position and radius of the circle
can be measured and communicated does not
t; >> >> >
> >> >> > is there something that can be perceived that is not qualia?
> It�s
> >> >> > less qualia the shape and location of a circle in ha sheet of
> paper
> >> >> > than its color?.The fact that
On 10/25/2012 3:01 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
Citeren "Stephen P. King" :
On 10/25/2012 5:16 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
Citeren Craig Weinberg :
On Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:58:33 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
You can identify a particular qualia with certain computational state
Citeren "Stephen P. King" :
On 10/25/2012 5:16 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
Citeren Craig Weinberg :
On Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:58:33 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
You can identify a particular qualia with certain computational states
of algorithms. All you need to do to (in princ
On 10/25/2012 5:16 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
Citeren Craig Weinberg :
On Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:58:33 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
You can identify a particular qualia with certain computational states
of algorithms. All you need to do to (in principle) decide if a system
is "e
form of processing and the color processing is more
complicated?
>> > O is because shape and position processing evolved to be communicable
>> > quantitatively between humans, while color had no evolutionary
>> > pressure to be a quantitative and communicable ?
>>
olor processing is more
> complicated?
> >> > O is because shape and position processing evolved to be communicable
> >> > quantitatively between humans, while color had no evolutionary
> >> > pressure to be a quantitative and communicable ?
> >> >
> >&
e ?
>
> If everithig perceived is qualia, then the question is the opposite.
> Instead of �what is qualia under a materialist stance?, the question
> is why some qualia are measurable and comunicable in a mentalist
> stance, where every perception is in the mind, including the
>
a, then the question is the opposite.
> > Instead of �what is qualia under a materialist stance?, the question
> > is why some qualia are measurable and comunicable in a mentalist
> > stance, where every perception is in the mind, including the
> > perception that I have
erception is in the mind, including the
perception that I have a head with a brain?
2012/10/25 Roger Clough:
Dennett and others on qualia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia#Daniel_Dennett
1) Schroedinger on qualia.
"Examples of qualia are the pain of a headache, the taste of wine, the
On 10/25/2012 5:17 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
2) Dennett on qualia
"In Consciousness Explained (1991) and "Quining Qualia" (1988),[19] Daniel
Dennett offers an argument against qualia that attempts to
show that the above definition breaks down when one tries to make a practical
application of it.
measurable and comunicable in a mentalist
stance, where every perception is in the mind, including the
perception that I have a head with a brain?
2012/10/25 Roger Clough :
> Dennett and others on qualia
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia#Daniel_Dennett
>
> 1) Schroed
Dennett and others on qualia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia#Daniel_Dennett
1) Schroedinger on qualia.
"Examples of qualia are the pain of a headache, the taste of wine, the
experience of taking a recreational drug,
or the perceived redness of an evening sky. Daniel Dennett writes
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