Re: Predictive physiological anticipation preceding seemingly unpredictable stimuli: a meta-analysis

2012-10-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 24.10.2012 20:31 meekerdb said the following: On 10/24/2012 5:31 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: http://www.frontiersin.org/Perception_Science/10.3389/fpsyg.2012.00390/abstract Comments? Woo-woo. Small effect sizes which are *statistically* significant are indicative of bias errors. I'd

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-27 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 10/27/2012 12:07 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Stephen, I agree that All of this discussion is below the level of conscious self-awareness, but prefer to think of raw perception as distinguishing what can be from

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 8:08 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Stathis: IMO you left out one difference in equating computer and human: the programmed comp. cannot exceed its hardwre - given content while (SOMEHOW???) a human mind receives additional information from parts 'unknown'

Putnam on computationalism (a-f)

2012-10-27 Thread Roger Clough
Putnam on computationalism (a-f) . This starts at https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1v=izqKc1SIFJQfeature=endscreen If the next video in the lecture does not appear on the screen, you can search for it in the search box. For example, if part f does not appear, put Putnam on computationalism (f)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist Yes, the strings themselves are extended, but theoretical strings (string theory itself) are not. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/27/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 01:45, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 5:16:47 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:58:33 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: You can identify a particular qualia with

Re: Can comp simulate an experience ? What does that require ?

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 01:50, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 6:08:43 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: In order for a computer or comp to simulate an experience it must be able to generate qualia. That is the plural of qua锟�e/'kw锟�e/ Noun: A quality or property as perceived or

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 13:01, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Alberto G. Corona Instead of trying to understand these phenomena under the materialist function of mind (what they are) it is IMHO more useful to understand them by what they do-- create the subjective or mental correlates to the physical

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 27, 2012 8:08:01 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 01:45, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 5:16:47 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:58:33 PM

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 13:51, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb Quanta do exist, and can be measured, but by definition they can only be experienced as qualia, (another word for experience) which can't be measured. Quanta are within spacetime, qualia are beyond spacetime. Not with comp (in the

Re: Even more compact dimensions Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:00, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Brent, What happens -- or is it even possible -- to collapse the dimensions down to one (which I conjecture might be time), or zero (Platonia or mind). Yes it is more zero, or zero^zero (one). In my favorite working theory. Bruno Roger

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 27, 2012 6:28:14 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 8:08 AM, John Mikes jam...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Stathis: IMO you left out one difference in equating computer and human: the programmed comp. cannot exceed its hardwre - given content

Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:24, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, October 26, 2012 1:01:34 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: We are atoms, molecules, cells, tissues, and organisms. Whatever we do is what the laws of physics

Re: A mirror of the universe.

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a

Re: wave function collapse

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 15:52, Richard Ruquist wrote: Well Bruno, If the measure problem (which I take to be the assignment of probabilities) is intrinsic to Everett's MWI, does that not amount to negating it? Why? I think that it is beautifully solved by Gleason theorem, for the Hilbert space

Re: Topological order: from long-range entangled quantum matter to an unification of light and electrons

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 15:58, Richard Ruquist wrote: For Hans, Topological order: from long-range entangled quantum matter to an unification of light and electrons Xiao-Gang Wen (Submitted on 4 Oct 2012) In primary school, we were told that there are four states of matter: solid, liquid, gas,

Re: A mirror of the universe.

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:30, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for

Re: What If A Zombie Is What You Need?

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:14, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 5:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Oct 2012, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote: On 10/24/2012 9:23 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Or what if we don't care? We don't care about slaughtering cattle, which are pretty smart as computers go. We

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/ step-8, then. If you find the time, I am please if you can elaborate. I think

Re: A mirror of the universe.

2012-10-27 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/27/2012 10:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:30, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that

Re: Interactions between mind and brain

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:48, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/25/2012 10:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Oct 2012, at 20:29, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/24/2012 10:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Oct 2012, at 06:03, Stephen P. King wrote: What difference does what they refer to

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 26, 2012 11:46:23 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 10/26/2012 11:36 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: All of it ultimately has to be grounded in ordinary conscious experience. Otherwise we have an infinite regress of invisible homunculi translating crystalline

Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
John, A fixed universal machine (some hardwired one, like a brain or a laptop) can emulate a self-modifying universal machine, even one which modifies itself completely. Bruno On 26 Oct 2012, at 23:08, John Mikes wrote: Stathis: IMO you left out one difference in equating computer and

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread John Mikes
Stathis, do you think Lucy had the same (thinking?) hardware as you have? are you negating (human and other) development (I evade 'evolution') as e.g. the famous cases of mutation? Is all that RD a reshuffling of what WAS already knowable? Maybe my agnosticism dictates different potentials at

Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 27, 2012 9:18:33 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:24, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, October 26, 2012 1:01:34 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: We are atoms, molecules,

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: How can a human exceed his hardware? Everything he does must be due to the hardware plus input from the environment, same as the computer, same as everything else in the universe. What input from the environment

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 2:38 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Stathis, do you think Lucy had the same (thinking?) hardware as you have? are you negating (human and other) development (I evade 'evolution') as e.g. the famous cases of mutation? Is all that RD a reshuffling of what WAS

Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread John Mikes
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:24, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, October 26, 2012 1:01:34 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: We are atoms, molecules,

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 27 Oct 2012, at 06:12, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: we know that nobody can answer the question why do I feel to be the one in Washington and not in Moscow. Because your eyes are sending signals to your brain of the White House and

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 27 Oct 2012, at 07:56, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/27/2012 12:07 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Stephen, I agree that All of this discussion is below the level of conscious self-awareness, but prefer to think of raw perception as distinguishing what can be from what cannot be, as for

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 27, 2012 12:04:48 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: I'm with John Clark on that - if a machine functions intelligently it's intelligent and it's probably conscious. Nothing magical about it. It's

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 27 Oct 2012, at 14:59, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, October 27, 2012 8:08:01 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 01:45, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 5:16:47 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com:

Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comjavascript:; wrote: No. What we as humans do is determined by human experiences and human character, which is not completely ruled externally. We participate directly. It could only be a small set of rules if those rules

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-27 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: People don't have to prove that they aren't machines. So says you, but a computer might have a very different opinion on the subject, and I don't think you even have a clear understanding what a machine is. it explains why

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:47:14 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: How can a human exceed his hardware? Everything he does must be due to the hardware plus input from the environment, same as the

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 27, 2012 1:41:08 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: People don't have to prove that they aren't machines. So says you, but a computer might have a very different opinion on the subject, and I don't

Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 27, 2012 1:03:52 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: No. What we as humans do is determined by human experiences and human character, which is not completely ruled externally. We participate

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012-10-27 Thread meekerdb
On 10/27/2012 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then. If you find the time, I am

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-27 Thread meekerdb
On 10/27/2012 11:00 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 12:27 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: your eyes are sending signals to your

mega-consciousness,created by bio-electrical circuitry?

2012-10-27 Thread meekerdb
UH OH! We may have to consider the ethics of our treatment of bacteria next. Brent The seafloor is home to a vast electrical network created by bacteria Annalee Newitz It sounds a little bit like one of the subplots in Avatar, where we discover that the moon Pandora possesses a kind of

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-27 Thread Jason Resch
On Oct 27, 2012, at 2:54 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/27/2012 11:00 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 12:27 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: your eyes are sending signals to your

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012-10-27 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 05:13:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then. If you find the time, I am please if you can elaborate. I think Russell too is not yet

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-27 Thread meekerdb
On 10/27/2012 1:58 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Oct 27, 2012, at 2:54 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/27/2012 11:00 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 12:27 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: