Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
On Nov 27, 2006, at 8:58 AM, Peter wrote: > --- Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: >> >>> As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and >>> depressive disorders, >> >> >> Dr. Pete, >> I thought it was supposed to be an effortless >> technique for the >> reduction of stress in general--that's what I >> remember. I don't recall >> hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I >> miss something? >> >> Sal > > Reduction of stress improves depressive symptoms and > anxiety. That's the theory, I realize, but in practice it didn't do a whole lot for mine, and I meditated regularly for years. I didn't start for that reason, either, so I wasn't disappointed. What I did notice was a reduction in some low-level stress, and that's all to the good. But as far as improving symptoms of depression and anxiety, not much. In fact, considering some of the actions of a few of the people I and some others encountered on various courses, (a very few, it might be noted--most were great) a couple of whom seemed to act without much conscience or concern for others, it might have worsened them. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: > > > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > > depressive disorders, > > > Dr. Pete, > I thought it was supposed to be an effortless technique for the > reduction of stress in general--that's what I remember. I don't recall > hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I miss something? > > Sal > A few people with anxiety disorders become more anxious as they start to relax. It fits the unstressing/normalization model of TM quite well, but these are extreme cases and people with ths problem may need to reduce their TM or even abstain in extreme cases. The psychosis thing sounds like it applies more to kundalini techniques than TM, but you never know.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > wrote: > > > > > > The last thing a person needs is transcending when > > > they are decompensating and the ego is overwhelmed > > > with primary process impulses. But unfortunately > > the > > > TMO will not listen to any mental health > > > professionals, even meditating ones, in regard to > > > people who are struggling with their program and > > their > > > life. > > > > For the vast majority of people, including people > > with mental ilness, TM is useful. Even > > people that have problems with TM usually find that > > lying down for a few minutes after > > practice and/or reducing practice time, is all that > > is requierd to get rid of most side-effects. > > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > depressive disorders, but some disorders, especially > psychosis, TM or any internal, unstructured activity > is the absolutely worst thing that could be done. > Transcending is not good for very weak minds. I doubt that you have done any research on this...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: > > > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > > depressive disorders, > > > Dr. Pete, > I thought it was supposed to be an effortless > technique for the > reduction of stress in general--that's what I > remember. I don't recall > hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I > miss something? > > Sal Reduction of stress improves depressive symptoms and anxiety. > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
> Sometimes sensitive people just have mental breakdowns. > Does anyone know if Michael Richards, has cut back on his 'Sidhi > Program'? > R.G. > R.G. I had what I have decided is a nervous breakdown at one job where I walked out. I'm a tough guy. Shit happens. Best if people allow others to get over such things and not judge. (Read between the lines - it can happen to you too). That's why weight is restricted on the camel.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
If Debbie Henning went nuts I'm very sorry to hear it. She was a great person. Still is, I'm sure. - Original Message - From: "bob_brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> Jason, you're actually wrong here. If a person is >> decompensating and their ego structures are breaking >> down and they are identified with those structures, >> they are becoming psychotic. They need much less or no >> meditation and plenty of activity to engage the mind, >> senses and language. People have different nervous >> systems. Some can have no problem with long hours of >> meditastion, such as yourself, others flip out. >> > > *** > > I think the advice from TM teachers was that one with a physical > ailment could meditate as long as they were comfortable with long > practice, and Jason had malaria, not a psychological complaint. All > that energy from long practice went into healing the physical > complaint, and was not fodder for decompensation. > > > >> --- Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > >> > There is Nothing wrong with practicing TM for >> > long periods. >> > >> > I used to practice TM for 8 or 9 hours a >> > day.!! I was sufering from Chronic Malaria for two >> > years, a sub-lethal attack. I took a long time for >> > the Doctors to diagnoise it. During that period I >> > practice TM for very extended periods. I don't >> > practice that long off late. >> > >> > But, TM is a Scientific technique practiced for >> > thousands of years by Vedic Seers. >> > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:17:21 EST >> > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Debbie Henning >> > >> > >> > Wow. Could this be true about Debbie? To the >> > person who posted this about someone's personal life >> > where are you getting this kind of information from? >> > Debbie deserves our prayers if this information is >> > true. MMY has gotten in trouble in the past with the >> > TMX organization back in 1985 with TM and TM Sidhi >> > practitioners who meditated too much and came down >> > with side effects that are not positive. Why MMY >> > keeps pushing the nervous systems of some people is >> > beyond me. This could effect MMY spiritual growth >> > when he passes over. His status in the fifth >> > dimension could be lowered. If the information is >> > true my heart goes out to her and her family. Just a >> > word of advise to everyone out their that can be >> > passed on. If you're having problems in your >> > programs slow down. You might want to meditate only >> > once a day. If your doing the Sidhi's and your >> > screaming or throwing things against the wall stop >> > your program and just meditate and take it from >> > their. If you move to fast on the >> > spiritual path you can have an emotional or >> > physiological fallout. Don't listen to TM teachers >> > who say your just unstressing and continue. They >> > have no brains in their heads when they talk like >> > this. >> > It iscommon sense. And believe it or not MMY lacks >> > in common sense at times even though everyone thinks >> > he's enlightened. Love and Light. >> > Lou Valentino >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > - >> > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail >> beta. >> >> >> >> >> > __ > __ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >> http://new.mail.yahoo.com >> > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > depressive disorders, Dr. Pete, I thought it was supposed to be an effortless technique for the reduction of stress in general--that's what I remember. I don't recall hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I miss something? Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The last thing a person needs is transcending when > > they are decompensating and the ego is overwhelmed > > with primary process impulses. But unfortunately > the > > TMO will not listen to any mental health > > professionals, even meditating ones, in regard to > > people who are struggling with their program and > their > > life. > > For the vast majority of people, including people > with mental ilness, TM is useful. Even > people that have problems with TM usually find that > lying down for a few minutes after > practice and/or reducing practice time, is all that > is requierd to get rid of most side-effects. As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and depressive disorders, but some disorders, especially psychosis, TM or any internal, unstructured activity is the absolutely worst thing that could be done. Transcending is not good for very weak minds. > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
(snip) > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM Movement. She then > joined > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is a convent-like > program, but > > the women meditate about six hours per day. They become very soft > spoken and > > spacey. > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her admitted to a mental > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > She was once so full of life. > > Could it be, that she just never got over Doug's death; that sometimes happens you know; Especially when people are particularly sensitive, and prone to fantasy to some extent; And to go from being where she was- she obviously did not know how to re-create her life, after his death? Whether or not that had to do with TM or donation of money, or whatever- seems irrelevant, to me anyway... Sometimes sensitive people just have mental breakdowns. Does anyone know if Michael Richards, has cut back on his 'Sidhi Program'? R.G. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The last thing a person needs is transcending when > they are decompensating and the ego is overwhelmed > with primary process impulses. But unfortunately the > TMO will not listen to any mental health > professionals, even meditating ones, in regard to > people who are struggling with their program and their > life. For the vast majority of people, including people with mental ilness, TM is useful. Even people that have problems with TM usually find that lying down for a few minutes after practice and/or reducing practice time, is all that is requierd to get rid of most side-effects.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jason, you're actually wrong here. If a person is > decompensating and their ego structures are breaking > down and they are identified with those structures, > they are becoming psychotic. They need much less or no > meditation and plenty of activity to engage the mind, > senses and language. People have different nervous > systems. Some can have no problem with long hours of > meditastion, such as yourself, others flip out. > *** I think the advice from TM teachers was that one with a physical ailment could meditate as long as they were comfortable with long practice, and Jason had malaria, not a psychological complaint. All that energy from long practice went into healing the physical complaint, and was not fodder for decompensation. > --- Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > There is Nothing wrong with practicing TM for > > long periods. > > > > I used to practice TM for 8 or 9 hours a > > day.!! I was sufering from Chronic Malaria for two > > years, a sub-lethal attack. I took a long time for > > the Doctors to diagnoise it. During that period I > > practice TM for very extended periods. I don't > > practice that long off late. > > > > But, TM is a Scientific technique practiced for > > thousands of years by Vedic Seers. > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:17:21 EST > > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Debbie Henning > > > > > > Wow. Could this be true about Debbie? To the > > person who posted this about someone's personal life > > where are you getting this kind of information from? > > Debbie deserves our prayers if this information is > > true. MMY has gotten in trouble in the past with the > > TMX organization back in 1985 with TM and TM Sidhi > > practitioners who meditated too much and came down > > with side effects that are not positive. Why MMY > > keeps pushing the nervous systems of some people is > > beyond me. This could effect MMY spiritual growth > > when he passes over. His status in the fifth > > dimension could be lowered. If the information is > > true my heart goes out to her and her family. Just a > > word of advise to everyone out their that can be > > passed on. If you're having problems in your > > programs slow down. You might want to meditate only > > once a day. If your doing the Sidhi's and your > > screaming or throwing things against the wall stop > > your program and just meditate and take it from > > their. If you move to fast on the > > spiritual path you can have an emotional or > > physiological fallout. Don't listen to TM teachers > > who say your just unstressing and continue. They > > have no brains in their heads when they talk like > > this. > > It iscommon sense. And believe it or not MMY lacks > > in common sense at times even though everyone thinks > > he's enlightened. Love and Light. > > Lou Valentino > > > > > > > > > > - > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > > > > > __ __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Lsoma@ wrote: > > > > > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has > > been > > > > admitted to a > > > > mental institu > > > > > > > > > Now there's a surprise. > > > > > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > > > > You set an example of compassion for all of us, Vaj. > > Noticed that, did you? His techniques obviously > work wonders for him. Or... we should have seen > the "before" picture? Vaj is really on a roll tonight, isn't he? Maybe he's just unstressing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Lsoma@ wrote: > > > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has > been > > > admitted to a > > > mental institu > > > > > > Now there's a surprise. > > > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > > You set an example of compassion for all of us, Vaj. > Noticed that, did you? His techniques obviously work wonders for him. Or... we should have seen the "before" picture?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been > > admitted to a > > mental institu > > > Now there's a surprise. > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > There's that compassionate tone of voice again, Vaj.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been > > admitted to a > > mental institu > > > Now there's a surprise. > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > Well perhaps poisoning you was enough... :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 5:16 PM, Jason Spock wrote: > > > But, TM is a Scientific technique practiced for thousands of years > > by Vedic Seers. > > LOL. Have you been readin' them thar Vedic comic books again Jase? > The only inaccuracy in Jason's statement is that the timescale is too short.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been > > admitted to a > > mental institu > > > Now there's a surprise. > > Well at least he didn't poison her. You set an example of compassion for all of us, Vaj.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been admitted to a mental institu Now there's a surprise. Well at least he didn't poison her.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been admitted to a mental institution. Just commenting about someone's personal life because its on this forum is not a good enough reason to respond. Making disparaging remarks about someone is grounds for legal problems. We have the freedom to talk on this forum but within legal considerations. Lou.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Lsoma wrote: > ...where are you getting this kind of information from? > >From the informants on this forum?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever > > > instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they > > > wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching > > > in India. > > > > I'm also wondering what the instructions could have > > been for implementing this rule. What would the > > teacher say to the prospective student at this point? > > What would happen if the student objected to being > > told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must > > have been a whole script for dealing with the > > situation. > > > > > This question came up during my TTC and the instruction was that we > invite the student to kneel; if he doesn't, that's his choice. > That's been my experience and observation. I just wonder how Barry was taught to handle the situation given that he was taught: no kneelie, no mantra... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > The ultimate form of this enforced ignorance > I'm talking about, of course, is when someone > points out that the diehard TMer really doesn't > know very much, they *admit* that they don't > know very much, and then they try to make a > case for not knowing very much being *superior*, > a position that actually makes them *better* > than those who know more than they do. > Actually I know almost nothing... > It's like listening to the George W. Bushes > of spirituality. :-) :-) :-) > Actually, he knows everyting, and knows it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever > > > instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they > > > wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching > > > in India. > > > > I'm also wondering what the instructions could have > > been for implementing this rule. What would the > > teacher say to the prospective student at this point? > > What would happen if the student objected to being > > told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must > > have been a whole script for dealing with the > > situation. > > One can guess: if prospective student won't kneel, tell him he won't learn (thereby > destroying the moment of piety that is supposed to be part of the ceremony, but > nevermind). If he then kneels, teach him. If he still won't kneel, throw him out. If he > threatens to sue, teach him, but report him to National... Sure, but I wanna see the *script*. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] > I'm glad you got your credit redeemed, John, sorry that it took such an > effort and that you were treated so shabbily. Experiences like yours > pretty are pretty much along the lines of others I have heard of > throughout the years. > > Sal > Says Sal missing the fact that others didn't have those experiences. I've no doubt that the TMO has pulled many a fast one over the years, but not everyone has had teh same experience, even within the same time frame, or so it seems. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever > > instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they > > wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching > > in India. > > I'm also wondering what the instructions could have > been for implementing this rule. What would the > teacher say to the prospective student at this point? > What would happen if the student objected to being > told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must > have been a whole script for dealing with the > situation. > One can guess: if prospective student won't kneel, tell him he won't learn (thereby destroying the moment of piety that is supposed to be part of the ceremony, but nevermind). If he then kneels, teach him. If he still won't kneel, throw him out. If he threatens to sue, teach him, but report him to National... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > > sparaig wrote: > > > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>sparaig wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >[...] > > > > > > > > > > > >>>Who "they?" Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami > > > >>>Shantananda > > Saraswati, > > > >>>and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something > > > >>>extremely > similar > > to it. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic meditation" > > > >>in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM > > > >>is what is considered unorthodox. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >>From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and > > > >>easy > > meditatio > > > >techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. > > > > > > > All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term > > > "spirituality sheltered." > > > > > > > That might be. However, one prominent exponent of the technique of Buddhist > meditation > > that Vaj characterizes as "effortless" admonishes people to be vigilant in > > not letting > > oneself fall asleep or getting lst in thoughts, which to me, is a form of > > effort and > control... > > > Actually--as with TM where an effort must be taken to sit down to meditate > and close > eyes, maintain mindfullness to return to mantra, etc., etc.--the first stages > of Shamatha > (which is what I assume you are talking of) do also require effort/attention. > This is typical > of most intro meditation techniques and McMeditation techniques like TM are > no different. > *Any meditation technique that relies on a object of meditation, a mantra, > the breath, etc. > will by it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh acknowledged at > Estes Park in > regard to TM).* If MMY acknowledged that then he is wrong. The higher stages of Shamatha practice are truly effortless in the yogic > sense of that word: one decides how long to rest in samadhi and then emerges > from > samadhi at the end of the session. > Ah yes, the Decider. Truely an effortless thing. GW Bush the Indescribable? > Unless you are actually familiar with the depth and breadth of meditation > praxis > experientially, this will not be obvious to you. > > So your above statement is incorrect--"spiritually sheltered" it would seem. > Thanks for your kind correction. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
jim_flanegin wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > >>As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- >>ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM >>movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since >>leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 >>years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, >>and studying directly with teachers who cover >>the subjects that can't be written down, I've >>probably encountered only seven or eight more >>"letters of the alphabet." In this lifetime I'll >>never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge >>that is out there. >> >> > >There's an irreconcilable difference between university and >universal knowledge. Sure there are probably as many spiritual >habits out there as there are people. Some of them are group habits >which we call traditions. One approach is to experience as many of >these group habits as possible, each with its own terminology, >expressions, forms of meditation, conclusions, teachers, etc. I >would call this approach the university approach, sort of like >seeing how many books in the library I can read in a lifetime. > >The other approach is to find any technique out there which will >allow the full exploration of any one object, be it a thought, a >material object, a relationship, or a feeling. If there is >consistent and continual transcending, a point can be reached where >there is a familiarity with all objects. I would call this approach >the universal approach. > >In my experience, the universal approach as I have defined it is >without question the most satisfying. > Many gurus call the "university" approach "bookish" or "wooden" knowledge and frown on it. After initiation and with practice of a technique the books might even take on different and deeper meaning that was not apparent at the superficial level. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- > ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM > movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since > leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 > years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, > and studying directly with teachers who cover > the subjects that can't be written down, I've > probably encountered only seven or eight more > "letters of the alphabet." In this lifetime I'll > never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge > that is out there. There's an irreconcilable difference between university and universal knowledge. Sure there are probably as many spiritual habits out there as there are people. Some of them are group habits which we call traditions. One approach is to experience as many of these group habits as possible, each with its own terminology, expressions, forms of meditation, conclusions, teachers, etc. I would call this approach the university approach, sort of like seeing how many books in the library I can read in a lifetime. The other approach is to find any technique out there which will allow the full exploration of any one object, be it a thought, a material object, a relationship, or a feeling. If there is consistent and continual transcending, a point can be reached where there is a familiarity with all objects. I would call this approach the universal approach. In my experience, the universal approach as I have defined it is without question the most satisfying. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever > > instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they > > wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching > > in India. > > I'm also wondering what the instructions could have > been for implementing this rule. What would the > teacher say to the prospective student at this point? > What would happen if the student objected to being > told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must > have been a whole script for dealing with the > situation. > This question came up during my TTC and the instruction was that we invite the student to kneel; if he doesn't, that's his choice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>sparaig wrote: >> >> >> >>>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: >>> >>> >>> TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic meditation" in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. >>>From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly >>>simple and easy meditation techniques, very few are actually >>>simple and easy. >>> >>> >>All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term >>"spirituality sheltered." >> >> > >It really IS pretty amazing, isn't it? > >This entire group of people who have never tried >any other technique of meditation or self discovery >but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to >*read* about any other technique but TM, and yet >they consider themselves authoritative about the >subject of meditation as a whole. > >It's one of the things that keeps me fascinated >by TMers, after all this time. I mean, you've >been around the spiritual block a bit, right? >Have you *ever* encountered any other group that >knows as little as your standard TMer or TM >teacher and yet believes that they know so much? > > I've always kept company with people from other organizations. Some were folks who had learned TM and looking for more and not finding it found it in other organizations. I learned a lot from them. Before learning TM I was trying other techniques. I can also say like those others I found myself wanting more but not finding in TM and moved on. >I keep coming back to the teaching analogy that >Maharishi used to use, in my opinion ironically. >He used to speak about the kid who goes to his >first day of school and learns A, B and C and >then comes back and teaches his siblings A, B >and C, because that's all he knows. > >As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- >ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM >movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since >leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 >years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, >and studying directly with teachers who cover >the subjects that can't be written down, I've >probably encountered only seven or eight more >"letters of the alphabet." In this lifetime I'll >never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge >that is out there. > > > My guru emphasizes this all the time that even what he knows is only a tiny part of the knowledge and it is impossible to know it all. >But at the same time I've come to realize that >(in my opinion) Maharishi himself was always >seriously light in the loafers in terms of how >much *he* knew. I honestly think that *he* was >aware of only A, B and C, and knew little or >nothing about the other "spiritual letters of >the alphabet," the other 90% of the body of >spiritual knowledge. > > > If we had a dime for every junior Hindu priest in India that knows a little or enough to teach a meditation course we'd be rich! :) They are all over the place there but most just stick close to their temples to seek enlightenment for themselves and serve their community. >His genius, if it could be called that, was to >convince stupid Westerners that he knew more than >he did, and to keep repeating endless variations >of A, B and C for forty years. Doing this, he >*not only* convinced most of the people listening >that they were hearing the entire "alphabet" of >spiritual knowledge, but *also* convinced them >that *they* knew more than seekers from any other >tradition. He kept people SO "spiritually sheltered" >and isolated that they never could become exposed >to anyone who could tell them, "Hey, I've listened >to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to >get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are >other letters?" He created an environment in which >fear of drifting "off the program" was so strong >that most of his followers don't even have any >*curiosity* about learning more; they're that >convinced that they already know everything that >is worth learning. > > > I've found that people from other organizations tend to treat TM folks respectfully from a distance knowing they have this 'tude. :) >It's a truly amazing accomplishment, in a strange >sort of way... > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use o
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > This entire group of people who have never tried > > > any other technique of meditation or self discovery > > > but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to > > > *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet > > > they consider themselves authoritative about the > > > subject of meditation as a whole. > > > > None of whom, of course, are participants on this > > forum, given that many of the discussions here are > > about other techniques. > > > > > > > He kept people SO "spiritually sheltered" and > > > isolated that they never could become exposed > > > to anyone who could tell them, "Hey, I've listened > > > to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to > > > get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are > > > other letters?" > > > > Note the hidden and unquestioned assumption here > > that in a series, such as the alphabet, the full > > series is of greater value than its initial > > elements by themselves. That's true, of course, > > in the case of the alphabet, but the metaphor > > may be seriously flawed when applied to the basis > > for techniques of awakening. > > > > As to lack of exposure, some of us have chosen to > > expose ourselves, outside the TM context, to a > > fairly wide range of what people say about the > > other "letters." On the basis of our own > > experiential and intellectual understanding, > > we have concluded that D, E, F, etc., not only > > do not add anything to A, B, and C, but actually > > detract from the understanding (experiential as > > well as intellectual) of the fundamental nature > > and mechanics of consciousness. > > > > We think these additional letters represent a > > failure to grasp the significance and ramifications > > of A, B, and C and thus don't represent "progress" > > at all, they represent a *less* complete and, in > > some cases, downright incorrect understanding. > > > > A more appropriate metaphor might be the series > > that begins with elementary particles and ends > > with apparently solid objects. If knowledge of > > solid objects is not grounded in knowledge of > > elementary particles, it's not only incomplete, > > it's wrong, since the solidity of these objects > > is only apparent, not real. > > The ultimate form of this enforced ignorance > I'm talking about, of course, Except, of course, as I pointed out, some of us have never paid any attention to the recommendation not to explore other traditions (as if that could ever *be* "enforced" on those not involved with the TMO). is when someone > points out that the diehard TMer really doesn't > know very much, they *admit* that they don't > know very much, and then they try to make a > case for not knowing very much being *superior*, It may be a matter of *what* one knows rather than *how much* one knows, a possibility that Barry's Rules are far too inflexible and doctrinaire even to consider. > a position that actually makes them *better* > than those who know more than they do. This would appear to be Barry's projection of his own sense of inadequacy, since nobody ever suggested such a thing. > It's like listening to the George W. Bushes > of spirituality. :-) :-) :-) I see a vastly closer resemblance to Bush-think in the postings of Barry and other True Non- believers than in those of the committed TMers here (in Barry's case, complete with the chronic tendency to promote knowing falsehoods, and the inability to address challenges). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > > wrote: > >> > >> On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > >> > I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't > > understand > is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, > > pure > and simple. > > Sal > > >>> > >>> > >>> I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and > >>> it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I > >>> was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national > >>> promised me though. > >> > >> Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to > >> deceive. > >> > >> Sal > >> > > I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a > > signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I > > fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. > > > > It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they > > promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They > > were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, > > siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence > > course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they > > taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I > > was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I > > initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they > > finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. > > About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told > > 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent > > it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite > > a lesson for me at the time. > > I'm glad you got your credit redeemed, John, sorry that it took such an > effort and that you were treated so shabbily. Experiences like yours > pretty are pretty much along the lines of others I have heard of > throughout the years. > > Sal > Helped crack me open in the end. I believed too easily. Something will replace TM or it will resurrect itself into something practical and useful later I know my experience was typical (as sad as that is). JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being > > argumentative, but > > > > just to relate my experience. I became a teacher > > much later than all > > > > of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you > > might have been told > > > > on your courses. > > > > > > What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers > > > conforms precisely to your description of what > > > you were told to teach. > > > > > > > Eeven allowing for Barry coming from a different era > > (I learned in 73), the business about > > not teaching unless the student kneels isn't > > something that even makes sense. > > > > > > When I went back to MUM/MIU in the mid-80's for a > > course, someone from Spielberg's > > (Lucas's?) studio had brought an experimental 3D > > video camera and wanted to film the > > Puja for MMY. They passed out flowers and started > > filming. I bowed my head respectfully > > with hands in the namaste form and then noticed that > > everyone else in the entire room-- > > with no exceptions (about 2000+ people since it was > > on oe of the larger courses)-- had > > fully kowtowed with head to floor. I glanced all the > > way around the room, threw my arms > > up at the ceiling dramatically and shrugged and > > knelt down... > > > > ..the next day, at another meeting, they passed the > > flowers around to everyone again, > > explaining that due to a "camera glitch" they needed > > to refilm part of the Puja. They > > instructed us all to "stand respectfully" as they > > did the retake. > > > > I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was > > ever instructed to require his/her > > students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not > > even the Indian ones teaching in India. > > I became a teacher in '73 and it was irrelevant > whether the student stood, kneeled or laughed at that > end of the puja. I have initiated some Indian to TM. After the Puja I was standing, and they were kneeling. Ingegerd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > This entire group of people who have never tried > > any other technique of meditation or self discovery > > but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to > > *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet > > they consider themselves authoritative about the > > subject of meditation as a whole. > > None of whom, of course, are participants on this > forum, given that many of the discussions here are > about other techniques. > > > > He kept people SO "spiritually sheltered" and > > isolated that they never could become exposed > > to anyone who could tell them, "Hey, I've listened > > to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to > > get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are > > other letters?" > > Note the hidden and unquestioned assumption here > that in a series, such as the alphabet, the full > series is of greater value than its initial > elements by themselves. That's true, of course, > in the case of the alphabet, but the metaphor > may be seriously flawed when applied to the basis > for techniques of awakening. > > As to lack of exposure, some of us have chosen to > expose ourselves, outside the TM context, to a > fairly wide range of what people say about the > other "letters." On the basis of our own > experiential and intellectual understanding, > we have concluded that D, E, F, etc., not only > do not add anything to A, B, and C, but actually > detract from the understanding (experiential as > well as intellectual) of the fundamental nature > and mechanics of consciousness. > > We think these additional letters represent a > failure to grasp the significance and ramifications > of A, B, and C and thus don't represent "progress" > at all, they represent a *less* complete and, in > some cases, downright incorrect understanding. > > A more appropriate metaphor might be the series > that begins with elementary particles and ends > with apparently solid objects. If knowledge of > solid objects is not grounded in knowledge of > elementary particles, it's not only incomplete, > it's wrong, since the solidity of these objects > is only apparent, not real. The ultimate form of this enforced ignorance I'm talking about, of course, is when someone points out that the diehard TMer really doesn't know very much, they *admit* that they don't know very much, and then they try to make a case for not knowing very much being *superior*, a position that actually makes them *better* than those who know more than they do. It's like listening to the George W. Bushes of spirituality. :-) :-) :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This entire group of people who have never tried > any other technique of meditation or self discovery > but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to > *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet > they consider themselves authoritative about the > subject of meditation as a whole. None of whom, of course, are participants on this forum, given that many of the discussions here are about other techniques. > He kept people SO "spiritually sheltered" and > isolated that they never could become exposed > to anyone who could tell them, "Hey, I've listened > to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to > get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are > other letters?" Note the hidden and unquestioned assumption here that in a series, such as the alphabet, the full series is of greater value than its initial elements by themselves. That's true, of course, in the case of the alphabet, but the metaphor may be seriously flawed when applied to the basis for techniques of awakening. As to lack of exposure, some of us have chosen to expose ourselves, outside the TM context, to a fairly wide range of what people say about the other "letters." On the basis of our own experiential and intellectual understanding, we have concluded that D, E, F, etc., not only do not add anything to A, B, and C, but actually detract from the understanding (experiential as well as intellectual) of the fundamental nature and mechanics of consciousness. We think these additional letters represent a failure to grasp the significance and ramifications of A, B, and C and thus don't represent "progress" at all, they represent a *less* complete and, in some cases, downright incorrect understanding. A more appropriate metaphor might be the series that begins with elementary particles and ends with apparently solid objects. If knowledge of solid objects is not grounded in knowledge of elementary particles, it's not only incomplete, it's wrong, since the solidity of these objects is only apparent, not real. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Actually--as with TM where an effort must be taken to sit > down to meditate and close eyes, maintain mindfullness to > return to mantra, etc., etc. The first "effort"--sitting down and closing the eyes--is irrelevant in this context. The second--"maintain mindfulness to return to mantra"--doesn't exist in TM, done properly. And who the heck knows what "etc., etc." refers to here. > Any meditation technique that relies on a object > of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by > it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh > acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* Of course, it's never been established that what he said at Estes Park ever "acknowledged" any such thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever > instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they > wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching > in India. I'm also wondering what the instructions could have been for implementing this rule. What would the teacher say to the prospective student at this point? What would happen if the student objected to being told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must have been a whole script for dealing with the situation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > [...] > > > When are you *ever* > > > going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, > > > or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? > > > They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even > > > now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put > > > their walk where their talk is and go on a course, > > > they won't do it. They'll just talk. > > > > Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone > > on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have > > children with severe medical problems who potentially > > require daily attention and supervision? I do. > > > > Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental > > problems myself, I am not sure that it would be > > healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave > > my home without repurcussions for my family. > > Everyone has their excuses for why they didn't > really walk the walk of their spiritual talk. > The thing is, some of us are aware that that's > all they are -- excuses. > > You chose your priorities in life. Cool. > > But don't expected to be treated like someone > who has paid his dues in the spiritual world > if you never have. That would be "dues in the spiritual world" as defined by Barry's Rules. There are, of course--according to Barry--no other ways to pay your dues in the spiritual world except those he defines as such. > And don't expect to be treated as someone who > is knowledgeable about meditation when you have > only practiced one beginner's technique of > meditation. As defined by Barry's Rules, of course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: >> I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't > understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, > pure and simple. Sal >>> >>> >>> I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and >>> it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I >>> was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national >>> promised me though. >> >> Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to >> deceive. >> >> Sal >> > I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a > signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I > fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. > > It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they > promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They > were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, > siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence > course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they > taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I > was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I > initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they > finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. > About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told > 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent > it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite > a lesson for me at the time. I'm glad you got your credit redeemed, John, sorry that it took such an effort and that you were treated so shabbily. Experiences like yours pretty are pretty much along the lines of others I have heard of throughout the years. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > " So any who disagree will be lying?" > > There is another possiblity. Wanna guess what that is? "Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > sparaig wrote: > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > > > > >>sparaig wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >[...] > > > > > > > > >>>Who "they?" Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda > Saraswati, > > >>>and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar > to it. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic meditation" > > >>in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM > > >>is what is considered unorthodox. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >>From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and > > >>easy > meditatio > > >techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. > > > > > All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term > > "spirituality sheltered." > > > > That might be. However, one prominent exponent of the technique of Buddhist meditation > that Vaj characterizes as "effortless" admonishes people to be vigilant in > not letting > oneself fall asleep or getting lst in thoughts, which to me, is a form of > effort and control... Actually--as with TM where an effort must be taken to sit down to meditate and close eyes, maintain mindfullness to return to mantra, etc., etc.--the first stages of Shamatha (which is what I assume you are talking of) do also require effort/attention. This is typical of most intro meditation techniques and McMeditation techniques like TM are no different. *Any meditation technique that relies on a object of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* The higher stages of Shamatha practice are truly effortless in the yogic sense of that word: one decides how long to rest in samadhi and then emerges from samadhi at the end of the session. Unless you are actually familiar with the depth and breadth of meditation praxis experientially, this will not be obvious to you. So your above statement is incorrect--"spiritually sheltered" it would seem. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being > argumentative, but > > > just to relate my experience. I became a teacher > much later than all > > > of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you > might have been told > > > on your courses. > > > > What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers > > conforms precisely to your description of what > > you were told to teach. > > > > Eeven allowing for Barry coming from a different era > (I learned in 73), the business about > not teaching unless the student kneels isn't > something that even makes sense. > > > When I went back to MUM/MIU in the mid-80's for a > course, someone from Spielberg's > (Lucas's?) studio had brought an experimental 3D > video camera and wanted to film the > Puja for MMY. They passed out flowers and started > filming. I bowed my head respectfully > with hands in the namaste form and then noticed that > everyone else in the entire room-- > with no exceptions (about 2000+ people since it was > on oe of the larger courses)-- had > fully kowtowed with head to floor. I glanced all the > way around the room, threw my arms > up at the ceiling dramatically and shrugged and > knelt down... > > ..the next day, at another meeting, they passed the > flowers around to everyone again, > explaining that due to a "camera glitch" they needed > to refilm part of the Puja. They > instructed us all to "stand respectfully" as they > did the retake. > > I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was > ever instructed to require his/her > students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not > even the Indian ones teaching in India. I became a teacher in '73 and it was irrelevant whether the student stood, kneeled or laughed at that end of the puja. > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > [...] > > > When are you *ever* > > > going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, > > > or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? > > > They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even > > > now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put > > > their walk where their talk is and go on a course, > > > they won't do it. They'll just talk. > > > > Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone > > on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have > > children with severe medical problems who potentially > > require daily attention and supervision? I do. > > > > Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental > > problems myself, I am not sure that it would be > > healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave > > my home without repurcussions for my family. > > Everyone has their excuses for why they didn't > really walk the walk of their spiritual talk. > The thing is, some of us are aware that that's > all they are -- excuses. > > You chose your priorities in life. Cool. > > But don't expected to be treated like someone > who has paid his dues in the spiritual world > if you never have. > > And don't expect to be treated as someone who > is knowledgeable about meditation when you have > only practiced one beginner's technique of > meditation. > Heh. I don't think anyone is knowledgeable about TM, even MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > > >> I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't understand > >> is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure > >> and simple. > >> > >> Sal > >> > > > > > > I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and > > it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I > > was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national > > promised me though. > > Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to > deceive. > > Sal > Of course, did the Powers That Be at the national level actually pocket the money themselves or did they make a hard-nosed business decision based on economic factors and the financial state of the TMO and what they thought they could get away with due to the good will of most TM teachers? That doesn't excuse what they did, but explains it in terms of [what they perceived of as] the higher good, rather than mere greed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 wrote: > > > > > > OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but > > just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all > > of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told > > on your courses. > > What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers > conforms precisely to your description of what > you were told to teach. > Eeven allowing for Barry coming from a different era (I learned in 73), the business about not teaching unless the student kneels isn't something that even makes sense. When I went back to MUM/MIU in the mid-80's for a course, someone from Spielberg's (Lucas's?) studio had brought an experimental 3D video camera and wanted to film the Puja for MMY. They passed out flowers and started filming. I bowed my head respectfully with hands in the namaste form and then noticed that everyone else in the entire room-- with no exceptions (about 2000+ people since it was on oe of the larger courses)-- had fully kowtowed with head to floor. I glanced all the way around the room, threw my arms up at the ceiling dramatically and shrugged and knelt down... ..the next day, at another meeting, they passed the flowers around to everyone again, explaining that due to a "camera glitch" they needed to refilm part of the Puja. They instructed us all to "stand respectfully" as they did the retake. I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- 'Shhhhh...(Let's make a deal!)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (snip) > "TMO sleazy, or in some cases simply hardball business methods (not a > > crime, and done by many businesses -- MMY was a very hard and > creative > > negotiator -- a postive trait in many businesses) is quite a > different > > thing from what TM / SIMS teachers were taught to do when teaching. > > > > The latter is what I understand is the issue. Becasue MMY negotiated > > hard for hotels and vegetables (some funny stories), and later some > > real deceit and scams occurred on the organizational / Int'l levels, > > is not support for the assertion that SIMS teachers were > > systematically taught how to lie in their teaching intro courses." > > That's what I think; like originally I heard, that when they bought > the original college property there, in FF; > That the asking price was around: $12-13 million. Much of it was past > bills as the old Parsons College, left a huge debt, to the town, and > the property was becoming an overgrown weedy eye-sore, for FF. > So, I believe, Maharishi negotiated a price for the University > property of around $2 million. Good Deal!!, I'd say... > Also, it is a tradition in India, to always 'negotiate' the best deal > possible; almost like it is stupid, not to think of 'all ways', to get > a better deal; > Almost, like if you feel you have 'good karma'; > And something comes your way; > You let the 'bad karma', of the seller; > Work to your benefit... > I think that's the psychology behind these negotiating tactics. > R.G. > Most older cutlures believe in hard bargaining at all levels. It's only the post-industrial cultures, where you can assign a definite value to "cost of goods," where this practice no longer makes sense. And real estate is problably an exception, even then. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > [...] > > When are you *ever* > > going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, > > or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? > > They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even > > now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put > > their walk where their talk is and go on a course, > > they won't do it. They'll just talk. > > Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone > on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have > children with severe medical problems who potentially > require daily attention and supervision? I do. > > Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental > problems myself, I am not sure that it would be > healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave > my home without repurcussions for my family. Everyone has their excuses for why they didn't really walk the walk of their spiritual talk. The thing is, some of us are aware that that's all they are -- excuses. You chose your priorities in life. Cool. But don't expected to be treated like someone who has paid his dues in the spiritual world if you never have. And don't expect to be treated as someone who is knowledgeable about meditation when you have only practiced one beginner's technique of meditation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but > just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all > of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on > your courses. > > Nor am I speaking about the lack of integrity in the TMO that is so > evident and definitely involves lying as in the pandit project, as in > bold-faced promising recerts they would be paid as two of the most > recent examples. > I remain unconvinced on that point. Importing someone to cook for someone else is a very dodgey thing. There's no way to justify it using any of the green card/student visa things that I am aware of. It's conceivable that a private individual or someone on a dipolmatic passport can bring their own cook, but that's entirely different than what is going on in the case of the pundits. [...] > I think it's a lot more difficult these days to teach TM without lying > because everything a teacher says is belied by the lack of integrity > of the organization. Where at one time, the organization could gain > credence, plausibility, and a certain amount of leeway from the > success of the techniques (which was, after all, what kept so many > going in spite of the TMO), now the credibility of the technique(s) > suffers becasue of the idiocy and lack of ethics of the organization. > Idiocy, perhaps, but lack of ethics? Which context? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] When are you *ever* > going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, > or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? > They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even > now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put > their walk where their talk is and go on a course, > they won't do it. They'll just talk. > Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have children with severe medical problems who potentially require daily attention and supervision? I do. Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental problems myself, I am not sure that it would be healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave my home without repurcussions for my family. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > sparaig wrote: > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > >>sparaig wrote: > >> > >> > >[...] > > > > > >>>Who "they?" Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, > >>>and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely > >>>similar to it. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic meditation" > >>in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM > >>is what is considered unorthodox. > >> > >> > >> > > > >>From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and > >>easy meditatio > >techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. > > > All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term > "spirituality sheltered." > That might be. However, one prominent exponent of the technique of Buddhist meditation that Vaj characterizes as "effortless" admonishes people to be vigilant in not letting oneself fall asleep or getting lst in thoughts, which to me, is a form of effort and control... Am I to ignore his own description of what he teaches? BTW, the people whom I *DO* trust to "get it" ala TM say things like "the Way that can be spoken is not the Constant Way." Maharishi doesn't describe TM in detail either, and TM teachers are taught to be vague in describing TM in order to avoid putting expectations on people, or such is what I surmise as the reason why every official description of TM is vague: you can't really describe the practice of TM and to try actually risks destroying the practice both for the person hearing the description AND for the person attempting to make the description. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > sparaig wrote: > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic > > > meditation" in other circles. The actual use of the bijas > > > particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. > > > > From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly > > simple and easy meditation techniques, very few are actually > > simple and easy. > > All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term > "spirituality sheltered." It really IS pretty amazing, isn't it? This entire group of people who have never tried any other technique of meditation or self discovery but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet they consider themselves authoritative about the subject of meditation as a whole. It's one of the things that keeps me fascinated by TMers, after all this time. I mean, you've been around the spiritual block a bit, right? Have you *ever* encountered any other group that knows as little as your standard TMer or TM teacher and yet believes that they know so much? I keep coming back to the teaching analogy that Maharishi used to use, in my opinion ironically. He used to speak about the kid who goes to his first day of school and learns A, B and C and then comes back and teaches his siblings A, B and C, because that's all he knows. As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, and studying directly with teachers who cover the subjects that can't be written down, I've probably encountered only seven or eight more "letters of the alphabet." In this lifetime I'll never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge that is out there. But at the same time I've come to realize that (in my opinion) Maharishi himself was always seriously light in the loafers in terms of how much *he* knew. I honestly think that *he* was aware of only A, B and C, and knew little or nothing about the other "spiritual letters of the alphabet," the other 90% of the body of spiritual knowledge. His genius, if it could be called that, was to convince stupid Westerners that he knew more than he did, and to keep repeating endless variations of A, B and C for forty years. Doing this, he *not only* convinced most of the people listening that they were hearing the entire "alphabet" of spiritual knowledge, but *also* convinced them that *they* knew more than seekers from any other tradition. He kept people SO "spiritually sheltered" and isolated that they never could become exposed to anyone who could tell them, "Hey, I've listened to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are other letters?" He created an environment in which fear of drifting "off the program" was so strong that most of his followers don't even have any *curiosity* about learning more; they're that convinced that they already know everything that is worth learning. It's a truly amazing accomplishment, in a strange sort of way... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
" So any who disagree will be lying?" There is another possiblity. Wanna guess what that is? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no > > > number of examples that will be considered proof. And if > > > one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, > > > that will be considered the final word. We have both been > > > down this road before. > > > > Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of > > the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention > > some of the many ways in which they were instructed to > > tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but > > equally possible that this subject will be met with a > > complete and stony silence. :-) > > > > I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the > > people who never had the balls to become teachers them- > > selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that > > *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and > > didn't do. > > > > Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually > > taught, will probably either agree with us or remain > > silent... > > > > So any who disagree will be lying? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
John, I had a front row seat for the fact that you were a sincere guy trying to do the right thing and support the World Plan of MMY. The fact that they screwed you over is on them, not you. I admire your dedication to your own experience. Because I was close enough to see some of it up close, your story moves me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > wrote: > > > > On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > > > > >> I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't > understand > > >> is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, > pure > > >> and simple. > > >> > > >> Sal > > >> > > > > > > > > > I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and > > > it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I > > > was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national > > > promised me though. > > > > Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to > > deceive. > > > > Sal > > > I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a > signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I > fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. > > It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they > promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They > were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, > siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence > course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they > taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I > was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I > initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they > finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. > About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told > 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent > it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite > a lesson for me at the time. > > > JohnY > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > > >> I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't understand > >> is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure > >> and simple. > >> > >> Sal > >> > > > > > > I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and > > it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I > > was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national > > promised me though. > > Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to > deceive. > > Sal > I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite a lesson for me at the time. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: >> I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't understand >> is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure >> and simple. >> >> Sal >> > > > I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and > it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I > was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national > promised me though. Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to deceive. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but > just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all > of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told > on your courses. What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers conforms precisely to your description of what you were told to teach. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Peter wrote: > > > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > >> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> After my period as a State Coordinator, > >>> I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > >>> at National while he was away on his sidhis > >>> course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > >>> to employees there at National on pretty much > >>> a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > >>> people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > >>> daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > >>> the mythical "course credit." > >>> > >>> When each of these existing employees had signed > >>> on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > >>> credit they would be "earning" each month towards > >>> ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > >>> new employees I was interviewing was told the > >>> same thing. > >>> > >>> But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > >>> (meaning, in this case, probably "International > >>> Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > >>> more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > >>> *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > >>> course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > >>> > >>> The way it worked was that when an employee > >>> applied to take the course they had been working > >>> towards, they were taken into an office and told > >>> that they had received no credit, and that this > >>> was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > >>> telling them this. (I never had to be the person > >>> who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > >>> off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > >>> off, they were fired on the spot. > >>> > >>> After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > >>> to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > >>> money to pay for myself, and which even more > >>> fortunately turned out to be my last with the > >>> TM movement ever. > >>> > >>> This is just one example of how we were told to > >>> lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > >>> teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > >>> up with a few examples of their own... > >>> > >> > >> > >> I honestly can't and have no clue what you're > >> talking about...and, > >> hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and > >> MMY but your > >> litany is foreign to me. > > > > If you worked on National or International staff this > > type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot > > about it several years ago. > > I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't understand > is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure > and simple. > > Sal > I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. Nor am I speaking about the lack of integrity in the TMO that is so evident and definitely involves lying as in the pandit project, as in bold-faced promising recerts they would be paid as two of the most recent examples. But as far as teaching goes, my experience is closer to how new.moring describes it. Comments below to some of the specifics that Barry talks mentions though: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: >> > -- When asked, "Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned > in the puja?" -- answer "No." This is obviously not true. We were never told to say "no" if the question comes up. We were instructed to use the example of doctors taking the hypocratic oath to "aphrodite and all the gods"--A comparable level of relevance. > -- When asked, "Are the words 'I bow down' included in > the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of > the names mentioned?" -- answer "No." This is equally > not true. We were never told this. Not to say that Barry wasn't, but we weren't. > -- When asked, "Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual?" -- answer > "No." In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses > from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. We were never told this either. The question didn't come up. Different era perhaps. > -- When asked, "Is it mandatory for the student to > kneel during initiation?" -- answer "No." HOWEVER, > in the explicit instructions given to me and other > TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we > were epxlicitly told to never teach the person > UNLESS they knelt. This is something we were definitely not told. Nor is it something I have ever even heard before. I'm curious now if this was a common instruction during that time. > -- When asked, "How many mantras are used in TM," > we were told never to answer this question, but to > hint that there were "very many...dozens or more." We were never told to hint at any numbers at all, just to say--if pushed--we don't discuss that except in the context of teacher training. > -- When asked, "How are they selected?" we were told > never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were > selected based on "a large number of different criteria" > known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only > one criterion. Set criteria; information on the interview form As new morning said, there is spin involved, sure. There is also ideology, belief, and paradigm. Those things can shift over time. It doesn't make one a retrospective liar to have believed something, or have believed in something. Again, I don't know what anyone else's experience on TTC was. I'm not saying others weren't told those things, only that we weren't. I think it's a lot more difficult these days to teach TM without lying because everything a teacher says is belied by the lack of integrity of the organization. Where at one time, the organization could gain credence, plausibility, and a certain amount of leeway from the success of the techniques (which was, after all, what kept so many going in spite of the TMO), now the credibility of the technique(s) suffers becasue of the idiocy and lack of ethics of the organization. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
wayback71 wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>TurquoiseB wrote: >> >> >> >>>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > >The things they parrot here as if they were Great >Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them >by people just like us, who had been trained to >lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) >whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical >Thought A) came up. > >Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to >be told that they know The Truth, they chose to >believe everything they were told. The more they >believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when >former TM teachers suggest that some of the things >they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. > >It's understandable. Don't take their hostility >personally. We are challenging their most cherished >fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and >us -- when we do so. > > > > Would you have approved them for a TTC? >>>I approved everyone who ever applied at the >>>centers I worked at. Several of them were >>>blackballed by other teachers, for greivous >>>"sins" like reading off-the-program books, >>>living together while unmarried, being gay, >>>etc., but I always thought that the desire >>>to do something for others should be supported. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>So you never had anyone who was considered a "loose cannon" or >>unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down >>at the center level because they were that way. >> >> >> >I think it was you who wanted to know of the organization that helps people >who have >overwhelming and/or psychotic experiences as a result of meditdation or >another spiritual >practice. Grof and Grof wrote a book called Spiritual Emergency and I believe >their website >is www.realization.com I do not know what happens when you contact them or >who >replies. You can also Google spritual emergency and get some info. > That link is a training management firm. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I mean, just look at the alternative, all the > people on this forum who pretend to be spiritual > and pretend to be gung-ho TMers, but who couldn't > walk their talk on a bet. When are you *ever* > going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, > or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? Speaking for myself, you'll see me showing up for a course when it's possible for me to do so. > They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even > now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put > their walk where their talk is and go on a course, > they won't do it. They'll just talk. Has nothing to do with money, in my case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > TurquoiseB wrote: > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > >>>Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > >>> > >>>The things they parrot here as if they were Great > >>>Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them > >>>by people just like us, who had been trained to > >>>lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) > >>>whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical > >>>Thought A) came up. > >>> > >>>Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to > >>>be told that they know The Truth, they chose to > >>>believe everything they were told. The more they > >>>believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when > >>>former TM teachers suggest that some of the things > >>>they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. > >>> > >>>It's understandable. Don't take their hostility > >>>personally. We are challenging their most cherished > >>>fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and > >>>us -- when we do so. > >>> > >>> > >>Would you have approved them for a TTC? > >> > >> > > > >I approved everyone who ever applied at the > >centers I worked at. Several of them were > >blackballed by other teachers, for greivous > >"sins" like reading off-the-program books, > >living together while unmarried, being gay, > >etc., but I always thought that the desire > >to do something for others should be supported. > > > > > > > So you never had anyone who was considered a "loose cannon" or > unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down > at the center level because they were that way. > I think it was you who wanted to know of the organization that helps people who have overwhelming and/or psychotic experiences as a result of meditdation or another spiritual practice. Grof and Grof wrote a book called Spiritual Emergency and I believe their website is www.realization.com I do not know what happens when you contact them or who replies. You can also Google spritual emergency and get some info. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > I approved everyone who ever applied at the > > centers I worked at. Several of them were > > blackballed by other teachers, for greivous > > "sins" like reading off-the-program books, > > living together while unmarried, being gay, > > etc., but I always thought that the desire > > to do something for others should be supported. > > So you never had anyone who was considered a > "loose cannon" or unstable? I seem to recall > several from my center who were turned down > at the center level because they were that way. Even if I had, I would have approved them for TTC because 1) it wasn't my *job* to make judgments like that, 2) seemingly unlike my fellow teachers, I never believed I was *capable* of making such judgments, and 3) I honestly think that the best thing Maharishi ever did was to give a few people the oppor- tunity to become teachers. They (we) weren't ready for it, they (we) were not adequately trained to do the job, and they (we) made lots of mistakes as they (we) tried to do the job. But at the same time we got to learn a lot, and to help a few people, and to exper- ience what it feels like to put your ego aside and work for the benefit of others. That smooths many rough edges. I'd give almost anyone who sincerely desired it that opportunity, rather than be the person who stood in their way. I mean, just look at the alternative, all the people on this forum who pretend to be spiritual and pretend to be gung-ho TMers, but who couldn't walk their talk on a bet. When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. So when I met someone who *was* actually willing to walk their talk and *do* something like becoming a TM teacher, I was NOT going to be the one to stand in their way. Think of the alternative, those people who never even *aspired* to become teachers. Look -- every day on this forum -- at how their lives turned out, and what they turned into. I like to think that the people I approved for TTC turned out better. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
sparaig wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>sparaig wrote: >> >> >[...] > > >>>Who "they?" Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda >>>Saraswati, >>>and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely >>>similar to it. >>> >>> >>> >>TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic meditation" >>in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM >>is what is considered unorthodox. >> >> >> > >>From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy >>meditatio >techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. > All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term "spirituality sheltered." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>>Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. >>> >>>The things they parrot here as if they were Great >>>Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them >>>by people just like us, who had been trained to >>>lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) >>>whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical >>>Thought A) came up. >>> >>>Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to >>>be told that they know The Truth, they chose to >>>believe everything they were told. The more they >>>believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when >>>former TM teachers suggest that some of the things >>>they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. >>> >>>It's understandable. Don't take their hostility >>>personally. We are challenging their most cherished >>>fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and >>>us -- when we do so. >>> >>> >>Would you have approved them for a TTC? >> >> > >I approved everyone who ever applied at the >centers I worked at. Several of them were >blackballed by other teachers, for greivous >"sins" like reading off-the-program books, >living together while unmarried, being gay, >etc., but I always thought that the desire >to do something for others should be supported. > > > So you never had anyone who was considered a "loose cannon" or unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down at the center level because they were that way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > sparaig wrote: [...] > >Who "they?" Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda > >Saraswati, > >and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely > >similar to it. > > > TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic meditation" > in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM > is what is considered unorthodox. > >From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy >meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't know about Sparaig, but it seems clear > that Judy has never *had* that desire to help > others, so I don't think it would ever have > become relevant. Of course, that's only "clear" in Barry's increasingly sick mind. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
sparaig wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>TurquoiseB wrote: >> >> >> >>>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>"Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM >>teacherwere taught to lie" >> >> >> >> >Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that >statement about what teachers were taught? > > > > Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? >>>Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about >>>whether or not people were asked to kneel during >>>it, about the number of mantras and how they were >>>selected, and about certain "hot button" subjects >>>that were likely to come up in lectures or in >>>interviews. For the latter, we were taught "pat >>>answers" to use in each situation, answers that >>>in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also >>>taught things to say about other forms of meditation >>>(that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) >>>negative and 2) not true. >>> >>>But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly >>>won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in >>>and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." >>>He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that >>>what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that >>>many of the things he was told were calculated >>>lies. >>> >>> >>> >>The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique >>comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think >>that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found >>it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the >>techniques. For those who live a "spiritually sheltered" life and are >>not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation >>among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and >>Hindu stages of life. >> >> >> > >Who "they?" Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda >Saraswati, >and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely >similar to it. > TM is not that unique in its process. It is called "yogic meditation" in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > > > > The things they parrot here as if they were Great > > Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them > > by people just like us, who had been trained to > > lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) > > whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical > > Thought A) came up. > > > > Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to > > be told that they know The Truth, they chose to > > believe everything they were told. The more they > > believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when > > former TM teachers suggest that some of the things > > they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. > > > > It's understandable. Don't take their hostility > > personally. We are challenging their most cherished > > fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and > > us -- when we do so. > > Would you have approved them for a TTC? I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous "sins" like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. I don't know about Sparaig, but it seems clear that Judy has never *had* that desire to help others, so I don't think it would ever have become relevant. All she's ever been interested in is sucking attention. All she'll EVER be interested in is sucking attention. It's just who she is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > TurquoiseB wrote: > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > >>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > >> > >> > > wrote: > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM > teacherwere taught to lie" > > > >>>Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > >>>statement about what teachers were taught? > >>> > >>> > >>Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? > >> > >> > > > >Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about > >whether or not people were asked to kneel during > >it, about the number of mantras and how they were > >selected, and about certain "hot button" subjects > >that were likely to come up in lectures or in > >interviews. For the latter, we were taught "pat > >answers" to use in each situation, answers that > >in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also > >taught things to say about other forms of meditation > >(that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) > >negative and 2) not true. > > > >But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly > >won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in > >and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." > >He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that > >what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that > >many of the things he was told were calculated > >lies. > > > The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique > comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think > that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found > it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the > techniques. For those who live a "spiritually sheltered" life and are > not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation > among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and > Hindu stages of life. > Who "they?" Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > TurquoiseB wrote: > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > >>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > >> > >> > > wrote: > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM > teacherwere taught to lie" > > > >>>Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > >>>statement about what teachers were taught? > >>> > >>> > >>Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? > >> > >> > > > >Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about > >whether or not people were asked to kneel during > >it, about the number of mantras and how they were > >selected, and about certain "hot button" subjects > >that were likely to come up in lectures or in > >interviews. For the latter, we were taught "pat > >answers" to use in each situation, answers that > >in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also > >taught things to say about other forms of meditation > >(that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) > >negative and 2) not true. > > > >But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly > >won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in > >and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." > >He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that > >what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that > >many of the things he was told were calculated > >lies. > > > The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique > comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I was never taught that on my TTC. > I think > that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found > it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the > techniques. For those who live a "spiritually sheltered" life and are > not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation > among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and > Hindu stages of life. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" >> >> > wrote: > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie" >>>Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that >>>statement about what teachers were taught? >>> >>> >>Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? >> >> > >Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about >whether or not people were asked to kneel during >it, about the number of mantras and how they were >selected, and about certain "hot button" subjects >that were likely to come up in lectures or in >interviews. For the latter, we were taught "pat >answers" to use in each situation, answers that >in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also >taught things to say about other forms of meditation >(that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) >negative and 2) not true. > >But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly >won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in >and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." >He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that >what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that >many of the things he was told were calculated >lies. > The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a "spiritually sheltered" life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>>"Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that >>>TM teachers were taught to lie" >>> >>> >>Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that >>statement about what teachers were taught? >> >> > >Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > >The things they parrot here as if they were Great >Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them >by people just like us, who had been trained to >lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) >whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical >Thought A) came up. > >Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to >be told that they know The Truth, they chose to >believe everything they were told. The more they >believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when >former TM teachers suggest that some of the things >they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. > >It's understandable. Don't take their hostility >personally. We are challenging their most cherished >fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and >us -- when we do so. > Would you have approved them for a TTC? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented > > chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough > > stance on people who say things not quite the way > > he would say them and declare them to be liars. > > And it must be frustrating for Judy, who has > been trying to portray me and several other > people on this forum as liars for YEARS, Correction: who has been *documenting* that you are liars for years. to > find that most posters still like us better > than they like her. :-) Unlike Barry, I don't care whether posters like me or not. > And that they still read our posts and chuckle > over many of them, whereas they killfile hers. The *overwhelming* majority of posters here read and respond to my posts. > It must drive her crazy at night. Sorry. Crazier. I suspect it's Barry who is driven crazy at night by the recognition that his long campaign to have others killfile me has failed miserably. > > Me, I think it's really funny. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented > chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough > stance on people who say things not quite the way > he would say them and declare them to be liars. And it must be frustrating for Judy, who has been trying to portray me and several other people on this forum as liars for YEARS, to find that most posters still like us better than they like her. :-) And that they still read our posts and chuckle over many of them, whereas they killfile hers. It must drive her crazy at night. Sorry. Crazier. Me, I think it's really funny. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no > number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one > believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that > will be considered the final word. Four so far have contradicted you and Barry: Shemp, new morning, Mark Reavis, and MDixon. So you're claming that these four are "believer teachers" who are lying "to protect daddy MMY." > The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA > who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the > disclosure of business relationships to their study. Skolnick did not tell you anything remotely like the whole story, Curtis. You might even say that by telling you misleading fractional truths, he lied to you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were > > > heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. > > > and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: > > > super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't > > > pretty. > > > > Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and > > you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) > > > Just for fun - I went through the list of TM-Teachers > and Purushas and Mother Divine that I know from Norway. > It was really a sad thing. A good number got cancer - > some mental illnesses - some suicide - some really weird Can you say "Schaedenfreude," boys and girls? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know > she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim > "Why those aren't really lies...they're just an > alternative way of saying things." :-) :-) :-) It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough stance on people who say things not quite the way he would say them and declare them to be liars. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell > > about the puja? > > Several: > > -- When asked, "Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned > in the puja?" -- answer "No." This is obviously not true. > > -- When asked, "Are the words 'I bow down' included in > the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of > the names mentioned?" -- answer "No." This is equally > not true. > > -- When asked, "Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual?" -- answer > "No." In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses > from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. I never heard such questions asked and doubt they ever were. > > > about > > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > > it, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > the puja? > > -- When asked, "Is it mandatory for the student to > kneel during initiation?" -- answer "No." HOWEVER, > in the explicit instructions given to me and other > TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we > were epxlicitly told to never teach the person > UNLESS they knelt. Never heard this asked either. However, when I learned, I did not kneel and was taught anyway, and I know many others for whom that was the case. > > > about the number of mantras and how they were > > > selected, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > > the number of mantras and how they were selected? > > -- When asked, "How many mantras are used in TM," > we were told never to answer this question, but to > hint that there were "very many...dozens or more." I never heard this question answered directly, either truthfully or with the "hint" Barry suggests. In any case, typically the question was "How many mantras are there?" not "How many mantras are used in TM?" > -- When asked, "How are they selected?" we were told > never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were > selected based on "a large number of different criteria" > known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only > one criterion. When I learned TM in 1976 and ever since, when that question was asked, what I heard was that the criteria were objective, period. There was never any suggestion as to the *number* of criteria. But we were told it was a very simple process. > I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. So far, every one of the teachers who has responded, with the sole exception of Curtis, has flatly contradicted Barry's assertion. > > I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected > (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another > of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no > life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Peter wrote: > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> >>> After my period as a State Coordinator, >>> I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job >>> at National while he was away on his sidhis >>> course. So for a few months I was asked to lie >>> to employees there at National on pretty much >>> a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the >>> people I was interviewing) on pretty much a >>> daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with >>> the mythical "course credit." >>> >>> When each of these existing employees had signed >>> on, they had been told in explicit terms how much >>> credit they would be "earning" each month towards >>> ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the >>> new employees I was interviewing was told the >>> same thing. >>> >>> But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" >>> (meaning, in this case, probably "International >>> Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any >>> more, and thus had no intention of ever giving >>> *any* of these people eve a penny towards any >>> course. I was forbidden to tell them this. >>> >>> The way it worked was that when an employee >>> applied to take the course they had been working >>> towards, they were taken into an office and told >>> that they had received no credit, and that this >>> was a new policy that was a surprise to the person >>> telling them this. (I never had to be the person >>> who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it >>> off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped >>> off, they were fired on the spot. >>> >>> After a couple of months of this, I quit and went >>> to my own course, which fortunately I had enough >>> money to pay for myself, and which even more >>> fortunately turned out to be my last with the >>> TM movement ever. >>> >>> This is just one example of how we were told to >>> lie to people. There are many others. If the TM >>> teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come >>> up with a few examples of their own... >>> >> >> >> I honestly can't and have no clue what you're >> talking about...and, >> hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and >> MMY but your >> litany is foreign to me. > > If you worked on National or International staff this > type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot > about it several years ago. I've heard about this"policy" numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I honestly can't and have no clue what you're > > talking about...and, > > hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and > > MMY but your > > litany is foreign to me. > > If you worked on National or International staff this > type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot > about it several years ago. My little adventure was > with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel > on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was > in on the meeting when two people on national staff > tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us > about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners > ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told > him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but > they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used > them for about 72 hours straight. They got very > trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to > collect his check and was told that we weren't > interested in buying them. I was livid but the two > National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze > bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete > with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them > all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has > gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize > and double speak all you want, but it an outright con > job orchestrated by MMY. TMO sleazy, or in some cases simply hardball business methods (not a crime, and done by many businesses -- MMY was a very hard and creative negotiator -- a postive trait in many businesses) is quite a different thing from what TM / SIMS teachers were taught to do when teaching. The latter is what I understand is the issue. Becasue MMY negotiated hard for hotels and vegetables (some funny stories), and later some real deceit and scams occurred on the organizational / Int'l levels, is not support for the assertion that SIMS teachers were systematically taught how to lie in their teaching intro courses. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know > she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim > "Why those aren't really lies...they're just an > alternative way of saying things." :-) :-) :-) > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell > > about the puja? > > Several: > > -- When asked, "Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned > in the puja?" -- answer "No." This is obviously not true. > > -- When asked, "Are the words 'I bow down' included in > the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of > the names mentioned?" -- answer "No." This is equally > not true. > > -- When asked, "Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual?" -- answer > "No." In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses > from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. > > > > about > > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > > it, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > the puja? > > -- When asked, "Is it mandatory for the student to > kneel during initiation?" -- answer "No." HOWEVER, > in the explicit instructions given to me and other > TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we > were epxlicitly told to never teach the person > UNLESS they knelt. > Interesting since I knew plenty of people who never knkelt and were still taught. In my latter days of learning advanced techniques, including when I took one from Neil Patterson, I didn't kneel and yet was still taught... > > > about the number of mantras and how they were > > > selected, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > > the number of mantras and how they were selected? > > -- When asked, "How many mantras are used in TM," > we were told never to answer this question, but to > hint that there were "very many...dozens or more." > > -- When asked, "How are they selected?" we were told > never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were > selected based on "a large number of different criteria" > known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only > one criterion. > > I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. > > I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected > (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another > of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no > life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "sparaig" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew > Skolnick > > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > > that what this admission means, if true, is > that > > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" > questions, > > > > and the other half were while I was working > for > > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > > probably no interest in doing it later in the > > week when things are less busy. > > > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > > at National while he was away on his sidhis > > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > > to employees there at National on pretty much > > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > > the mythical "course credit." > > > > When each of these existing employees had signed > > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > > new employees I was interviewing was told the > > same thing. > > > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > > > The way it worked was that when an employee > > applied to take the course they had been working > > towards, they were taken into an office and told > > that they had received no credit, and that this > > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > > off, they were fired on the spot. > > > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > > money to pay for myself, and which even more > > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > > TM movement ever. > > > > This is just one example of how we were told to > > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > > up with a few examples of their own... > > > > > I honestly can't and have no clue what you're > talking about...and, > hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and > MMY but your > litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. My little adventure was with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was in on the meeting when two people on national staff tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used them for about 72 hours straight. They got very trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to collect his check and was told that we weren't interested in buying them. I was livid but the two National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize and double speak all you want, but it an outright con job orchestrated by MMY. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fairf
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no > > number of examples that will be considered proof. And if > > one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, > > that will be considered the final word. We have both been > > down this road before. > > Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of > the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention > some of the many ways in which they were instructed to > tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but > equally possible that this subject will be met with a > complete and stony silence. :-) > > I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the > people who never had the balls to become teachers them- > selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that > *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and > didn't do. > > Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually > taught, will probably either agree with us or remain > silent... > So any who disagree will be lying? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > probably no interest in doing it later in the > week when things are less busy. > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > at National while he was away on his sidhis > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > to employees there at National on pretty much > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > the mythical "course credit." > > When each of these existing employees had signed > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > new employees I was interviewing was told the > same thing. > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > The way it worked was that when an employee > applied to take the course they had been working > towards, they were taken into an office and told > that they had received no credit, and that this > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > off, they were fired on the spot. > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > money to pay for myself, and which even more > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > TM movement ever. > > This is just one example of how we were told to > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > up with a few examples of their own... > OK, so the TM orgnizatio engages in shoddy, dishonest, even reprehensible business practices. That's a far cry from what Curtis was talking about to Skolnick. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Spraig, > > Your dismissive answer does not hide your ignorance about hypnosis. > TM researchers fixation on proving that the TM state is unique is part > of their marketing hype. Hypnosis researchers do not have the same > agenda, so they may not just focus on the variables TM researchers use > to prove their case that TM is extra special, super duper, and the > very bestest trance in the whole wide world, worth every dollar charged. > > Cought. PHysiological researchers looking for consistent neurological correlates of hynosis hav exactly the same agenda: to find any such consistent neurological correlates. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > > > We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes > > > found in hypnotic > > > > subjects while there is with TMers. > > > > > > I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it > > > as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was > > > used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there > > > are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is > > > like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps > > > the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological > > > changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a > > > subset of the broader trance phenomenon. > > > > > > MMY calls the TM induced states "higher states". I think this is > > > marketing hype with no evidence of "higher" anything in its practicers > > > with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated > > > self-regard. > > > > > > I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of > > > room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view > > > after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the > > > movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in > > > Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice > > > to study it, or not. > > > > > > > > > > Short answer: where's the research published by scientists that > shows consistent > > physiological correlates to hypnosis? > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of > examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher > comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the > final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the > many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to > preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is > not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center > or taught long, they know better. > > The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had > been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of > business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a > spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its > spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that > Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to > me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. So... When were you "taught to" lie? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > > probably no interest in doing it later in the > > week when things are less busy. > > > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > > at National while he was away on his sidhis > > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > > to employees there at National on pretty much > > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > > the mythical "course credit." > > > > When each of these existing employees had signed > > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > > new employees I was interviewing was told the > > same thing. > > > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > > > The way it worked was that when an employee > > applied to take the course they had been working > > towards, they were taken into an office and told > > that they had received no credit, and that this > > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > > off, they were fired on the spot. > > > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > > money to pay for myself, and which even more > > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > > TM movement ever. > > > > This is just one example of how we were told to > > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > > up with a few examples of their own... > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > probably no interest in doing it later in the > week when things are less busy. > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > at National while he was away on his sidhis > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > to employees there at National on pretty much > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > the mythical "course credit." > > When each of these existing employees had signed > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > new employees I was interviewing was told the > same thing. > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > The way it worked was that when an employee > applied to take the course they had been working > towards, they were taken into an office and told > that they had received no credit, and that this > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > off, they were fired on the spot. > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > money to pay for myself, and which even more > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > TM movement ever. > > This is just one example of how we were told to > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > up with a few examples of their own... > I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were > > heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. > > and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: > > super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't > > pretty. > > Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and > you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) > Just for fun - I went through the list of TM-Teachers and Purushas and Mother Divine that I know from Norway. It was really a sad thing. A good number got cancer - some mental illnesses - some suicide - some really weird - and some is of course healthy also - . I know one from Purusha that is not able to meditate more than a few minutes - the Sidhi-techniques is out of question. One from Mother Divine stopped with TM. The healthies ones, as I see it, is the people that have had a good balance between TM and Activity and balanced food - enjoying life outside meditation. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Yeah, that is really taking one(or two) for the team! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards > > another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult > > which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his > > word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's > > Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got > > off easy with TM! > > Maybe you just got out before it started being a > requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot > of the "recertified" teachers talk in a somewhat > high, effeminate voice? > > :-) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish "translation" is, > > to say the least, rather lame; something like "those, who have > > chosen not to marry". The Latin goes like "qui se ipsos > > castraverunt"... (those who castrate themselves), and the German > > "die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen." > > Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially > considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the > Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. > That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to > believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! > Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all > clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. >From the Wikipedia article on "eunuch": Non-castrated eunuchs There is much evidence indicating that ancient and medieval cultures used the term "eunuch" much differently than we do today. In the compendium of ancient Roman civil law created by Justinian I in the 6th century known as the Digest or Pandects, eunuchs are characterized as "not diseased or defective" and as physically capable of procreation (Digest 21.1.6.2) -- that is, unless they are "missing a necessary part" of their anatomy (D 21.1.7). This implies that some eunuchs are anatomically whole. The word eunuch is said to be a general designation that includes eunuchs "by nature" as well as those who have suffered some kind of physical injury (D 50.16.128). Eunuchs are also distinguished from "castrati" in the Roman laws: eunuchs, if not castrated, were eligible to marry women (D 23.3.39.1), institute posthumous heirs (D 28.2.6), and adopt children (Institutions of Justinian 1.11.9), while castrati were excluded from all of these rights. In her essay "Living in the Shadows: Eunuchs and Gender in Byzantium," Kathryn M. Ringrose demonstrates how eunuch societies included not only castrated men but also homosexuals, transgenders, ascetics, celibates and a wide range of men who were technically impotent or disinterested in women for a wide range of reasons. In India, for instance, a recent study (Citation Needed) of "eunuchs" revealed that only 8% were actually castrated and less than 1% were intersexed (hermaphroditic). The vast majority of the Indian eunuchs studied were either effeminate homosexual men or crossdressing transgenders, causing many historians to wonder if a similar reality existed in other "eunuch" cultures around the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch In other words, the Greek term translated "eunuch," while it literally meant "bed-keeper," referring to castrated men who guarded a ruler's bed chamber, was commonly used to mean simply a man who did not have sex with women. In that light, have another look at the Bible verse: Matthew 19:12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." The first appears to refer to men who are biologically and/or psychologically incapable of having sex with women (including, perhaps, gay men, as well as those who are impotent); the second to castrated (including self- castrated) men (perhaps also men who were not permitted to marry or even those who were sterile); and the third to men who were voluntarily celibate. It's interesting to note that in the Book of Daniel are these verses (1:3-4): "The king spoke to Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring in certain of the children of Israel, even of the seed royal and of the nobles; youths in whom was no blemish, but well-favored, and skillful in all wisdom, and endowed with knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability to stand in the king's palace; and that he should teach them the learning and the language of the Chaldeans." The master of the king's eunuchs was asked to choose from among his charges young Jewish men "in whom was no blemish." This obviously cannot refer to castrated men, yet they were called eunuchs. It's also important, as with virtually any Bible text, to look at the *context* (Matthew 19:1-11), in which Jesus is responding to a question concerning Moses, who sent his wife away so as not to be distracted in his mission of leading his people to the Promised Land. Jesus' disciples suggest that in such a situation-- nominally a divorce, which Jesus has just said is against God's law--it would be better not to marry at all. Jesus then goes on to deliver the teaching about eunuchs (Matthew 19:12), essentially asserting that not all men are *called* to be in a traditional marriage. In that context, "eunuch" clearly refers to those men who do not marry and have child
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no > number of examples that will be considered proof. And if > one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, > that will be considered the final word. We have both been > down this road before. Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention some of the many ways in which they were instructed to tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but equally possible that this subject will be met with a complete and stony silence. :-) I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the people who never had the balls to become teachers them- selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and didn't do. Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually taught, will probably either agree with us or remain silent... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards > another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult > which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his > word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's > Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got > off easy with TM! Maybe you just got out before it started being a requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot of the "recertified" teachers talk in a somewhat high, effeminate voice? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Spraig, Your dismissive answer does not hide your ignorance about hypnosis. TM researchers fixation on proving that the TM state is unique is part of their marketing hype. Hypnosis researchers do not have the same agenda, so they may not just focus on the variables TM researchers use to prove their case that TM is extra special, super duper, and the very bestest trance in the whole wide world, worth every dollar charged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > > We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes > > found in hypnotic > > > subjects while there is with TMers. > > > > I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it > > as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was > > used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there > > are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is > > like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps > > the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological > > changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a > > subset of the broader trance phenomenon. > > > > MMY calls the TM induced states "higher states". I think this is > > marketing hype with no evidence of "higher" anything in its practicers > > with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated > > self-regard. > > > > I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of > > room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view > > after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the > > movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in > > Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice > > to study it, or not. > > > > > > Short answer: where's the research published by scientists that shows consistent > physiological correlates to hypnosis? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim "Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things." :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, > > What was the lie you were taught to tell > about the puja? Several: -- When asked, "Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja?" -- answer "No." This is obviously not true. -- When asked, "Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned?" -- answer "No." This is equally not true. -- When asked, "Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual?" -- answer "No." In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. > > about > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > it, > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > the puja? -- When asked, "Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation?" -- answer "No." HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. > > about the number of mantras and how they were > > selected, > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, "How many mantras are used in TM," we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were "very many...dozens or more." -- When asked, "How are they selected?" we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on "a large number of different criteria" known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center or taught long, they know better. The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > probably no interest in doing it later in the > week when things are less busy. > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > at National while he was away on his sidhis > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > to employees there at National on pretty much > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > the mythical "course credit." > > When each of these existing employees had signed > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > new employees I was interviewing was told the > same thing. > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > The way it worked was that when an employee > applied to take the course they had been working > towards, they were taken into an office and told > that they had received no credit, and that this > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > off, they were fired on the spot. > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > money to pay for myself, and which even more > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > TM movement ever. > > This is just one example of how we were told to > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > up with a few examples of their own... > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
> Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish "translation" is, > to say the least, rather lame; something like "those, who have > chosen not to marry". The Latin goes like "qui se ipsos > castraverunt"... (those who castrate themselves), and the German > "die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen." > Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > > Kundalini techniques. How > > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is > not > > more common among believers: > > > > Matthew 19:12 > > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept > it." > > > > It caused a weird cult of people "accepting it" around the time of > > Marcus Garvey. > > > > Nice topic! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > and the other half were while I was working for > > the National Center in L.A. > > OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical "course credit." When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be "earning" each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" (meaning, in this case, probably "International Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly > > won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in > > and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." > > Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until > someone is willing to cite specifics rather than > vague generalities. P.S.: Especially when the person spouting the vague generalities is a well-documented chronic liar himself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM > > > > teacherwere taught to lie" > > > > > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > > > statement about what teachers were taught? > > > > Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? > > Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? about > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? about the number of mantras and how they were > selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? and about certain "hot button" subjects > that were likely to come up in lectures or in > interviews. For the latter, we were taught "pat > answers" to use in each situation, answers that > in many cases we knew not to be true. Cite three of these lies, please. We were also > taught things to say about other forms of meditation > (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) > negative and 2) not true. Cite three of these lies, please. > But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly > won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in > and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until someone is willing to cite specifics rather than vague generalities. (That won't be Berry, though.) > He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that > what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that > many of the things he was told were calculated > lies. Cite three of these fantasies, please. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that > > > TM teachers were taught to lie" > > > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > > statement about what teachers were taught? > > Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > > The things they parrot here as if they were Great > Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them > by people just like us, who had been trained to > lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) > whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical > Thought A) came up. > > Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to > be told that they know The Truth, they chose to > believe everything they were told. The more they > believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when > former TM teachers suggest that some of the things > they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. > > It's understandable. Don't take their hostility > personally. We are challenging their most cherished > fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and > us -- when we do so. > So... Examples please? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that > > > TM teachers were taught to lie" > > > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > > statement about what teachers were taught? > > Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > > The things they parrot here as if they were Great > Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them > by people just like us, who had been trained to > lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) > whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical > Thought A) came up. Name three such things, please. Just three. > Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to > be told that they know The Truth, they chose to > believe everything they were told. The more they > believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when > former TM teachers suggest that some of the things > they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. Name three such things, please. Just three. > It's understandable. Don't take their hostility > personally. We are challenging their most cherished > fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and > us -- when we do so. Name three such things, please. Just three. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
