Re: Ember and weight loss

[Belinda]

  What were his creatinine, BUN, phosphorus, potassium and HCT, those 
are the big numbers concerning CRF?  What lab were they sent to?


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

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RE: Kitten Update

[catatonya]

It's been a while since I've dealt with kittens, but in my fairly long ago 
memory, albon rarely touched the coccidia.  I know I've had kittens on 
metronidazole for it.  (flagyl)
  t

Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }I did read that coccidia has a 13 
day incubation period.  And yes, I needed approval to be able to take a stool 
sample into the vet that treats the cats for this group, if I want to be 
charged the discounted rate (which as a foster, I feel is only fair).  I could 
take the cats to my own vet or another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted 
rate.  The whole thing is pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do 
the best I can.  And I don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats 
she has, as the situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these 
kittens because they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even 
with just terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with and 
may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone first.   
-Caroline 

> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: Kitten Update
> 
> On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and
> > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
> > know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to the
> > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I
> > needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
> > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
> > up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them
> > in.
> 
> That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
> and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
> - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
> they had been there a month.
> 
> In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
> in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
> doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
> 
> You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
> 
> It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
> their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
> come in to our local kill shelter.
> -- 
> Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
> 
> http://www.rescuties.org
> 
> Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
> 
> http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
> 
> Please help George!
> 
> http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
> 
> I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
> 
> Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
> Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
> 


  
-
  Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now! 

Re: choosing a vet -OT

[Kelley Saveika]

1.  No importance.
2.  No importance.
3.  Very important, I have actually never had a vet that did this, I
was always welcome to be in the room with the cat.  My current vet
does temp and weight in the back and that's about it.

On 9/28/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How important is it to you when looking for a vet that it be
>
> 1- a cat only clinic
> 2-doesn't declaw
> 3 doesn't take your cat 'to the back' to do everything?
>
> That is what I had and lost.  When Bob got sick last week I took off the
> morning to call and get him in and there was no doctor coming in at all
> until 2:00.   So I tried this highly recommended new vet I'm seeing and she
> seems very knowledgeable and thorough, but doesn't meet any of those
> criteria.  She is far away, but they are open until 9:00 every night and
> Saturday and Sunday.  That would keep me out of the emergency vets whom I
> hate..
>
> I'm just at a loss as to what to do.  I don't know of any other vets in my
> area that don't declaw.  The new vet at my old vet's office was required not
> to do it as part of the sale of the practice.  But she just does not seem
> good at all, she does everything in the back as wellthus wondering if I
> should put up with these things and use this new vet I feel is very
> knowledgeable or keep looking.   And I have been looking and looking.  :(
> tonya
>
>


-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!

Re: Kitten Update

[Kelley Saveika]

See, my vet says flagyl does nothing for coccidia.  Coccidia needs
sulfa based drugs to kill it.

Flagyl kills giardia.  Sometimes.  It doesn't kill the giardia I've
had in my house forever.  Nothing else does, either.

On 9/28/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's been a while since I've dealt with kittens, but in my fairly long ago
> memory, albon rarely touched the coccidia.  I know I've had kittens on
> metronidazole for it.  (flagyl)
> t
>
>
> Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I needed
> approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats the cats
> for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which as a
> foster, I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or
> another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is
> pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I
> don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats she has, as the
> situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these kittens because
> they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even with just
> terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
> They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with
> and may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone
> first.
> -Caroline
>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: Kitten Update
> >
> > On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> > > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
> and
> > > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
> > > know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
> the
> > > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
> whom I
> > > needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
> > > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
> shown
> > > up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
> them
> > > in.
> >
> > That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
> > and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
> > - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
> > they had been there a month.
> >
> > In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
> > in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
> > doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
> >
> > You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
> >
> > It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
> > their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
> > come in to our local kill shelter.
> > --
> > Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
> >
> > http://www.rescuties.org
> >
> > Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
> >
> > http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
> >
> > Please help George!
> >
> > http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
> >
> > I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
> >
> > Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
> > Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
> >
>
>
> 
> Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now!
>


-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!

Re: ot-cisapride?

[Barb Moermond]

cisapride?  hmm.  it's been taken off the U.S. market for people... 

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/cisap.htm 
I think lactulose is worth trying - one brand is Enulose - ask about it 
(firmly) 


are you using digestive enzymes?  I sprinkle prozyme on their crunchies and if 
I run out, or hubby forgets, Bandit gets diarrhea - icky...

metamucil sprinkled on his food couldn't hurt either 


Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito 
"My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should impress.  Merely living 
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." 
   - Anonymous

- Original Message 
From: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:11:59 AM
Subject: ot-cisapride?

My cat Bob is still having problems with constipation.  He is still currently 
negative for felv (just retested him last week).  He was positive as a kitten 
in 1992ish.  He then threw the virus, and has lived with 2 positives all his 
life.
   
  He is the one who has had the oxcylate crystals.  As some of you remember my 
vet quit to work on csi cases with aspca, etc  Bob was straining to urinate 
and I took him to the new vet at the clinic who gave him fluids and put him on 
baytril.
   
  After 2 days he seemed worse, and was also constipated.  I called another vet 
and she said that my 'new vet' had not done a culture, and she thought Bob's 
system was messed up by the Baytril.  She did a culture.   It was negative.  
And she took him off the antibiotic.  She gave him fluids, x-rayed for stones 
(none), no crystals, put him on lactulose.
   
 
 Well we finally ended up having to give him an enema.  She has found the start 
of kidney disease, and has me giving him 150 mL of fluids each week.
   
  The constipation is still there!  She had me buy something compounded called 
cisapride to help his GI system.  He won't take it and foams at the mouth and 
spits it out when he does.  I have discontinued it.  Has anyone ever used this 
before?  Same results?
   
  I have changed him to all wet food (royal canin s/o).  I am going to start 
putting pumpkin in it.  Any further suggestions
   
  tonya

RE: Kitten Update

[Caroline Kaufmann]

I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I don't 
have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same litter.  
They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day when I took 
him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey ones are smaller, 
but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so crazy last Sat., I 
didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended up with one long 
haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and couldn't get fixed yet 
because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had it before me was syringe 
feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate crunchies first?  So I 
started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will eat both now fine.  The 
cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it last Saturday and I think 
it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's clearly gained weight since I have 
had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so hard to tell when they are tiny and 
have long hair!).  It's getting more longer than fatter so the cat is really 
funny-looking now because it has this long, lean skinny mid-section and this 
big head that looks like it would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a 
fat snake belly everytime he eats and who has a tiny head!  
They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was a 
little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.  
We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to pick 
up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some answers 
soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
-Caroline 


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten 
UpdateTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh.
 
With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good idea, 
but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I don't 
think I'd add another med. at this time.
 
Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
 
tKelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:> My three kittens are status-quo. I 
started them on a probiotic made by> Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've 
had a day and a half of that and> we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow 
pies (and stinky!). I don't> know how long it takes the probiotic to work 
though? I have talked to the> volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally 
had these kittens and whom I> needed to obtain approval from before taking in a 
stool sample. She said> she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks 
it would have shown> up earlier because she had them at her house for a while 
before I took them> in.That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common 
in kittens,and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at 
all- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia afterthey had 
been there a month.In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken 
a kittenin for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool 
sampledoesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).You need to get approval?? 
Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 
or 30 (or more) cats intheir houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the 
cats thatcome in to our local kill shelter.-- Rescuties - Saving the world, one 
cat at a time.http://www.rescuties.orgVist the Rescuties store and save a kitty 
life!http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20Please help 
George!http://rescuties.chipin.com/georgeI GoodSearch for Rescuties.Raise money 
for your favorite charity or school just by searching theInternet with 
GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
_
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

Re: choosing a vet -OT

[Marylyn]

Thoughts:  vets who see more than one type of animal may be more open to 
ideas.."well, cats don't normally get this but dogs do and possibly 
this cat picked it up in a 1 in 1000 chance"

Declawing is a volatile but personal issue and may not be a black and white 
issue.  Perhaps it is better to have a really good vet do it and a good follow 
up than to have a vet who isn't so good totally screw it up.

I really have an issue with people who won't let me stay with my little friend. 
 Maybe you can explain this to the vet and work something out?

Frankly, if I had bad feelings about a vet and had an option I would take the 
option.  You may hate yourself if you don't.






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: catatonya 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:22 AM
  Subject: choosing a vet -OT


  How important is it to you when looking for a vet that it be

  1- a cat only clinic
  2-doesn't declaw
  3 doesn't take your cat 'to the back' to do everything?

  That is what I had and lost.  When Bob got sick last week I took off the 
morning to call and get him in and there was no doctor coming in at all until 
2:00.   So I tried this highly recommended new vet I'm seeing and she seems 
very knowledgeable and thorough, but doesn't meet any of those criteria.  She 
is far away, but they are open until 9:00 every night and Saturday and Sunday.  
That would keep me out of the emergency vets whom I hate..

  I'm just at a loss as to what to do.  I don't know of any other vets in my 
area that don't declaw.  The new vet at my old vet's office was required not to 
do it as part of the sale of the practice.  But she just does not seem good at 
all, she does everything in the back as wellthus wondering if I should put 
up with these things and use this new vet I feel is very knowledgeable or keep 
looking.   And I have been looking and looking.  :(
  tonya

Re: Kitten Update

[MaryChristine]

kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
all its own.

i

On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
> don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
> litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor
> Day when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two
> grey ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was
> so crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I
> ended up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
> couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had
> it before me was syringe feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate
> crunchies first?  So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
> eat both now fine.  The cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it
> last Saturday and I think it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's
> clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
> hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more
> longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
> this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
> would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
> he eats and who has a tiny head!
> They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
> a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
> We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to
> pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some
> answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
> -Caroline
>
>  --
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Kitten Update
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
> In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
> kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
> and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
> the litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens
> are often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can
> usually tell from the smell. ugh.
>
> With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good
> idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
> up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
>
> Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
> stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten
> we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
> finally just left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the
> medicine we were giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
>
> t
>
> *Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
>
> On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
> > My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
> and
> > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
> > know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
> the
> > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
> whom I
> > needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
> > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
> shown
> > up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
> them
> > in.
>
> That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
> and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
> - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
> they had been there a month.
>
> In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
> in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
> doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
>
> You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
>
> It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
> their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
> come in to our local kill shelter.
> --
> Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
>
> http://www.rescuties.org
>
> Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
>
> http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
>
> Please 

Re: We are not perfect

[MaryChristine]

tonya, you weren't around as frequently back in the early spring when some
of us were trying, gently, to correct those who either out of lack of
information, or self-righteousness, were putting out dangerous information.
we were attacked when we asked people to do the research themselves, to
check the archives, to remember that none of us are vets--that's why we
left, when it became personal, and the misinformation and bad advice
continued. we tried very hard, then gave up.

and i make no apologies for reverting to my first language, sarcasm, when
all my 4-planets-in-libra gentle reminders and suggestions were pissed on
like a plastic bag. my concern was and is with the people who didn't KNOW
they were being fed menu-brand level knowledge.

you have no idea how much angst this has caused those of us who love this
list, now how much behind the scenes work we tried to do to find a
solution--for most people, it was just emotionally wiser for them to quietly
leave than to stand up and be attacked.





On 9/28/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This list has always had divisions:
>
> declaw/not declaw
> outside/inside
> aggressive treatment/leave them alone
> pts/die naturally
> mix + and - / keep separate
> animal communication/ scam.
>
> We have all always had different opinions, but we have always been
> respectful in those disagreements for many years.  I disagree on some things
> with some of my best friends on this list. We've had lots of debates on
> them. Some people are more 'hotheaded' about these things than others, but I
> think we can all try to disagree (when we do) in a respectful way.  And if
> really wrong advice is given that could cause harm I think we should say so.
>
> tonya
>
> *Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
>
>  Yes, I understand this, but isn't this why Phaewryn or Jennifer or
> whoever left a while back? If I remember right, she was disgusted by the use
> of Animal Communicators because they are not scientifically proven, etc.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she felt that suggesting the use of an
> AC does more harm than good since science is being abandoned for what some
> consider to be a scam or a witchdoctor or whatever. *I have no experience
> with ACs, so these are not my views*, but I remember people ganging up on
> her several months ago when she was trying to debunk what she thought was
> harmful information.
>
> I completely understand what you guys mean, but I just thought that the
> comment by MC was merely an extension of the fight and nothing more. I
> apologize for any misunderstanding.
>
> Melissa
>  --
>  *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Susan Hoffman
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:16 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: We are not vets
>
> I'm with MC on this.  This has been a problem on other lists that I am on
> and fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are
> giving out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express
> disclaimer.  Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong.  Often
> they are looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil
> if they thought it might save a cat they loved.
>
> *MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
> for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or,
> "this is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and
> newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know
> when they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been
> DANGEROUS, in some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on
> this list in the past few months by people who presented it as if it had
> been handed to them on stone tablets.
>
> there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of
> proclamations that have become the norm on the list.
>
>  On 9/27/07, *Melissa Lind* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this
> community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is
> understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person
> does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to
> speak up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here.
> As you ALL know, there are so many varied experiences with many different
> ailments that it helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this
> list claims to be the be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only
> doing the best we can with what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the
> suggestions of veteran members are appreciated, and the variety of opinions
> is valuable. If you do not agree with the suggestions below, please just
> give your advice to the contrary.
>
>  This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to
> Michael's list too. I'll hang around an

Re: choosing a vet -OT

[Belinda]

I would choose the vet I thought was giving the best care to my 
furkids, that would be the most important thing to me.  I'm sure you 
could find something you didn't particularly like with just about any 
vet so so for me I'd go with the one I feel most comfortable with and 
feel is giving the best care to my furkids.  Of course if you can find a 
vet that fits all your criteria that would be a bonus!!


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candlelight Service
http://bemikitties.com/cls

HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
http://HostDesign4U.com



BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

Re: choosing a vet -OT

[MaryChristine]

many places don't HAVE cat-only clinics, so it's not even an option i've
worked with both, can't say that either kind were intrinsically BETTER. the
chemistry between vet and cat, the openness to new ideas and learning is
what's paramount to me--i've seen pompous, know-everything, don't-talk-to-me
cat-only vets, and i've had general practice vets who talked to me as i were
another professional. if my cats like them, they seem to like my cats, and
they work with me, that's a major factor. (like when i called my housecall
vet and asked if he had room to take on a few more cats, cuz i'd started a
new job that needed a vet he asked how many, and i said, um, well,
500. he was silent for a moment, but didn't hang up or say no yep,
he's still my vet.)

i don't know of any local vets that absolutely do not declaw, but i've also
never ever been to one who pushed it--it'd NEVER bee suggested to me, it's
never been offered as part of a spay/neuter deal, i don't declaw, tho i have
some rescues with both front and all-four declaws, but i don't think i would
have realized from my own experience that so many people just thought it was
the done thing to do, nor that so many vets and veterinary chains push it so
aggressively as a money-making item. so it's never occurred to me to even
ask. i agree with marylyn that i'd MUCH rather have a good, compassionate,
aware vet doing a declaw if one had to be done--even if the reason is one
that many of us would NOT consider valid--with the most up-to-date
procedures, pain medication and follow-up than someone who pushes it on all
cats.

i don't really have that much trouble with the vets taking cats in the
back--but the only time i take cats TO the vet (as opposed to the vet coming
here to the house, where, clearly, everyone sees almost everything!) is when
it's for surgeries that my housecall vet can't do.
having tired of chasing cats throughout my and other folks' house while
trying to get bloods, ken now takes them out to his new, larger van to do
it, but i'm welcome to go sit with them if i want to. i usually don't, as i
know how ken treats them, so i trust him with them. one thing that's been
mentioned in a lot of places that i'll probably do if i leave town and have
to break in a whole new set of vets (a thought that absolutely terrifies
me), is to make an initial appointment to tour the clinic--and if you're not
welcome to, take that as a warning bell right from the start.

what vet clients--and human patients--tend to forget is that WE PAY THE
BILLS, we are the customers, and we don't have to settle for things that
make us uncomfortable.

see how the FRONT-OFFICE STAFF TREATS YOU, on the phone and in person. we (a
nationwide rescue group, with vets all over the country we work with) had a
long-standing relationship with a wonderful vet, with an incredibly
well-equipped facility--and an office staff that was atrocious. rude,
inefficient, uncaring--but no one had the guts to say anything to the
vet guess who was asked to be the one to do so.

find out IN ADVANCE how the vet will handle emergencies, and emergency
PAYMENT. as some of you know, i've been disabled for many years, but worked
part-time til 1991, since then i've been on disability based on part-time
work. i couldn't afford to rent a litterbox in most large american
cities so a major surgery, or a catastrophic illness is not something i
will EVER be able to handle upfront. but i have NEVER found a vet, other
than ER ones, who was not willing to work with me. but i told them about my
circumstances at the very beginning, and always made every payment, so that
when the times came when a big bill needed to be stretched out, i already
had a history with them. places that will NOT make arrangements for payment
are, to my mind, not the people i want caring for my animals--yes, it's a
business, and yes they need to pay their bills and i understand that--but if
they're passionate about the human/animal bond, they are not going to make
people choose pain and death for their animals due to an immediate shortage
of cash.

this is a good discussion to have; maybe input from lots of us could be
edited into a separate page on the site for folks on, "what to look for in a
vet," or, "interviewing your next vet?" we used to hold periodic chats on
this with vets, to see what the best client for THEM is--it's possible i
could get one to come to the list and talk about that, if there's interest
(she's a cat-only vet)




On 9/28/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> How important is it to you when looking for a vet that it be
>
> 1- a cat only clinic
> 2-doesn't declaw
> 3 doesn't take your cat 'to the back' to do everything?
>
> That is what I had and lost.  When Bob got sick last week I took off the
> morning to call and get him in and there was no doctor coming in at all
> until 2:00.   So I tried this highly recommended new vet I'm seeing and she
> seems very knowledgeable and thorough, but does

Re: Kitten Update

[Kelley Saveika]

Giardia is hard to find.  That's how it got into my house.  My Ciara,
who I later had to send to the bridge due to inoperable/untreatable
mouth cancer, had giardia..the sample came back clean, so it was
diagnosed as IBD.  (not by my regular vet, this is what swore me off
going to cheap vets, but really he could have missed the giardia too).
  EVERY cat in my house was exposed and I have been battling it ever
since.  I can scrub my floor w/bleach one night and get home from work
the next day and have 15-20 piles of diarrhea on it.  It is horrible.
My house smells ungodly. Of course my sense of smell is so compromised
by this time I can barely smell it, but even the barely part smells
ungodly.



On 9/28/07, MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
> in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
> lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
> smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
> you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
> from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
> all its own.
>
> i
>
>
> On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
> don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
> litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day
> when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey
> ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so
> crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended
> up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
> couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had
> it before me was syringe feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate
> crunchies first?  So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
> eat both now fine.  The cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it
> last Saturday and I think it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's
> clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
> hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more
> longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
> this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
> would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
> he eats and who has a tiny head!
> > They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
> a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
> > We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to
> pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some
> answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
> > -Caroline
> >
> >
> > 
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Kitten Update
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >
> >
> >
> > In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
> kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
> and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
> the litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens
> are often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can
> usually tell from the smell. ugh.
> >
> > With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good
> idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
> up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
> >
> > Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
> stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten
> we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
> finally just left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the
> medicine we were giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
> >
> > t
> >
> > Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
> > > My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> > > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
> and
> > > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
> > > know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
> the
> > > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
> whom I
> > > needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
> > > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
> shown
> > > up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
> them
> > > in.
> >
> > That isn't ne

Re: ot-cisapride?

[MaryChristine]

and you know my answer: add yogurt to that pumpkin! if he's a coonie, he's
even more likely to love it... (coons seem to love pumpkin, for some unknown
reason)

the whole thing sounds weird to me--as far as i know (which is limited),
baytril IS still the first drug of choice for utis, and in males, treatment
is often started before culturing is complete just because of the risk of
blockage. so i'm not sure that what the first vet did was so far off

barb, think this is what's going on with joe's boy? just getting older and
the digestive system not so motile? what'd they end up doing with him?

On 9/28/07, Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> cisapride?  hmm.  it's been taken off the U.S. market for people...
>
> http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/cisap.htm
> I think lactulose is worth trying - one brand is Enulose - ask about it
> (firmly)
>
> are you using digestive enzymes?  I sprinkle prozyme on their crunchies
> and if I run out, or hubby forgets, Bandit gets diarrhea - icky...
>
> metamucil sprinkled on his food couldn't hurt either
>
> Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
> "My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living
> his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."
> - Anonymous
>
> - Original Message 
> From: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:11:59 AM
> Subject: ot-cisapride?
>
> My cat Bob is still having problems with constipation.  He is still
> currently negative for felv (just retested him last week).  He was positive
> as a kitten in 1992ish.  He then threw the virus, and has lived with 2
> positives all his life.
>
> He is the one who has had the oxcylate crystals.  As some of you remember
> my vet quit to work on csi cases with aspca, etc  Bob was straining to
> urinate and I took him to the new vet at the clinic who gave him fluids and
> put him on baytril.
>
> After 2 days he seemed worse, and was also constipated.  I called another
> vet and she said that my 'new vet' had not done a culture, and she thought
> Bob's system was messed up by the Baytril.  She did a culture.   It was
> negative.  And she took him off the antibiotic.  She gave him fluids,
> x-rayed for stones (none), no crystals, put him on lactulose.
>
> Well we finally ended up having to give him an enema.  She has found the
> start of kidney disease, and has me giving him 150 mL of fluids each week.
>
> The constipation is still there!  She had me buy something compounded
> called cisapride to help his GI system.  He won't take it and foams at the
> mouth and spits it out when he does.  I have discontinued it.  Has anyone
> ever used this before?  Same results?
>
> I have changed him to all wet food (royal canin s/o).  I am going to start
> putting pumpkin in it.  Any further suggestions
>
> tonya
>
>


-- 

Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Kitten Update

[Kelley Saveika]

Giardia is a parasite.  You can get it from drinking dirty water, and
that is a common way for humans to get it.

Dogs and cats can also get it from drinking dirty water..but they can
also get it from licking their feet after being in the litterbox..from
licking their butts...from sniffing the poop with giardia in it...

It is treatable with flagyl..but it can also burrow into the
intestines and come out later..it is a PITA ...

On 9/28/07, laurieskatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty water.
> Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in a
> stool sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it.
> Laurie
>
> - Original Message -
> From: MaryChristine
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitten Update
>
> kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
> in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
> lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
> smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
> you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
> from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
> all its own.
>
> i
>
> On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
> don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
> litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day
> when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey
> ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so
> crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended
> up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
> couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had
> it before me was syringe feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate
> crunchies first?  So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
> eat both now fine.  The cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it
> last Saturday and I think it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's
> clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
> hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more
> longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
> this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
> would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
> he eats and who has a tiny head!
> > They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
> a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
> > We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to
> pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some
> answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
> > -Caroline
> >
> >
> > 
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Kitten Update
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >
> >
> >
> > In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
> kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
> and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
> the litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens
> are often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can
> usually tell from the smell. ugh.
> >
> > With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good
> idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
> up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
> >
> > Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
> stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten
> we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
> finally just left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the
> medicine we were giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
> >
> > t
> >
> > Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
> > > My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> > > Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
> and
> > > we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
> > > know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
> the
> > > volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
> whom I
> > > needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
> > > she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
> show

Re: We are not perfect ~ MaryChristine

[laurieskatz]

MC,.
would you be willing to email me privately?
Laurie (of Isabella, Laurie and Lisa)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: MaryChristine 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:46 AM
  Subject: Re: We are not perfect


  tonya, you weren't around as frequently back in the early spring when some of 
us were trying, gently, to correct those who either out of lack of information, 
or self-righteousness, were putting out dangerous information. we were attacked 
when we asked people to do the research themselves, to check the archives, to 
remember that none of us are vets--that's why we left, when it became personal, 
and the misinformation and bad advice continued. we tried very hard, then gave 
up. 

  and i make no apologies for reverting to my first language, sarcasm, when all 
my 4-planets-in-libra gentle reminders and suggestions were pissed on like a 
plastic bag. my concern was and is with the people who didn't KNOW they were 
being fed menu-brand level knowledge. 

  you have no idea how much angst this has caused those of us who love this 
list, now how much behind the scenes work we tried to do to find a 
solution--for most people, it was just emotionally wiser for them to quietly 
leave than to stand up and be attacked. 






  On 9/28/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This list has always had divisions:

declaw/not declaw
outside/inside
aggressive treatment/leave them alone
pts/die naturally
mix + and - / keep separate 
animal communication/ scam.

We have all always had different opinions, but we have always been 
respectful in those disagreements for many years.  I disagree on some things 
with some of my best friends on this list. We've had lots of debates on them. 
Some people are more 'hotheaded' about these things than others, but I think we 
can all try to disagree (when we do) in a respectful way.  And if really wrong 
advice is given that could cause harm I think we should say so. 

tonya

Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Yes, I understand this, but isn't this why Phaewryn or Jennifer or 
whoever left a while back? If I remember right, she was disgusted by the use of 
Animal Communicators because they are not scientifically proven, etc. Correct 
me if I'm wrong, but I think she felt that suggesting the use of an AC does 
more harm than good since science is being abandoned for what some consider to 
be a scam or a witchdoctor or whatever. I have no experience with ACs, so these 
are not my views , but I remember people ganging up on her several months ago 
when she was trying to debunk what she thought was harmful information. 

  I completely understand what you guys mean, but I just thought that the 
comment by MC was merely an extension of the fight and nothing more. I 
apologize for any misunderstanding. 

  Melissa

--

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan 
Hoffman
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:16 PM
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: We are not vets
   
  I'm with MC on this.  This has been a problem on other lists that I am on 
and fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are 
giving out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express 
disclaimer.  Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong.  Often 
they are looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil if 
they thought it might save a cat they loved. 

  MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: 
  for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or, 
"this is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and 
newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when 
they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in 
some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the 
past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on 
stone tablets. 

  there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of 
proclamations that have become the norm on the list.


  On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this 
community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is 
understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person 
does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak 
up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL 
know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it 
helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the 
be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can 

RE: We are not perfect

[catatonya]

This list has always had divisions:
   
  declaw/not declaw
  outside/inside
  aggressive treatment/leave them alone
  pts/die naturally
  mix + and - / keep separate
  animal communication/ scam.
   
  We have all always had different opinions, but we have always been respectful 
in those disagreements for many years.  I disagree on some things with some of 
my best friends on this list. We've had lots of debates on them. Some people 
are more 'hotheaded' about these things than others, but I think we can all try 
to disagree (when we do) in a respectful way.  And if really wrong advice is 
given that could cause harm I think we should say so.
   
  tonya

Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }Yes, I understand this, 
but isn’t this why Phaewryn or Jennifer or whoever left a while back? If I 
remember right, she was disgusted by the use of Animal Communicators because 
they are not scientifically proven, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think 
she felt that suggesting the use of an AC does more harm than good since 
science is being abandoned for what some consider to be a scam or a witchdoctor 
or whatever. I have no experience with ACs, so these are not my views, but I 
remember people ganging up on her several months ago when she was trying to 
debunk what she thought was harmful information. 
   
  I completely understand what you guys mean, but I just thought that the 
comment by MC was merely an extension of the fight and nothing more. I 
apologize for any misunderstanding.
   
  Melissa
  
-
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:16 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: We are not vets

   
  I'm with MC on this.  This has been a problem on other lists that I am on and 
fortunately the mods are willing to kick people to the curb if they are giving 
out questionable advice, especially without some sort of express disclaimer.  
Newbies do not understand that advice may be very wrong.  Often they are 
looking for any glimmer of hope and would willingly buy snake oil if they 
thought it might save a cat they loved.

MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  for many years, none of us had any problem saying, "in my opinion," or, "this 
is what my vet recommended, " or "this is what has worked for me"--and 
newcomers do NOT know that there are no vets on the list, they do NOT know when 
they are being given flat-out WRONG information. there has been DANGEROUS, in 
some cases possibly life-threatening information put out on this list in the 
past few months by people who presented it as if it had been handed to them on 
stone tablets. 

there is a HUGE difference between a suggestion, and the kind of proclamations 
that have become the norm on the list.


On 9/27/07, Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I think we all can agree that an unspoken disclaimer exists in this 
community. None of us is a vet. We give advice based upon experience. It is 
understood that we are not prescribing anything as a vet would. If a person 
does not agree with a suggestion for a sick cat, it is his/her choice to speak 
up. The only way we learn is though the suggestions of members here. As you ALL 
know, there are so many varied experiences with many different ailments that it 
helps to have a wide range of suggestions. No one on this list claims to be the 
be-all-end-all of veterinary medicine. We are only doing the best we can with 
what we know. Some of us are new to this, so the suggestions of veteran members 
are appreciated, and the variety of opinions is valuable. If you do not agree 
with the suggestions below, please just give your advice to the contrary.

 

This is all getting so stupid. I'm thinking about leaving to go to 
Michael's list too. I'll hang around and see if things improve here, but the 
drama is unbearable at this point. Even after Susan D. has left the group, we 
are still arguing about this! Enough already.

 

Melissa

  
-
  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question


 

you are prescribing medicine without a license.

  On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hi Caroline,

Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?

If not, I recommend getting one performed. 

Re: Ember and weight loss

[catatonya]

I don't know.  I was floored recently to get two totally different reads on 
Bob's cbc's when I took him to a new vet.
   
  You might try going for a second opinion.
   
  My 'old' vet said cbc looked fine.  My 'new' vet said the values showed the 
beginnings of crf and wants to start fluids and medications.
   
  I know it's expensive, but I was really floored at the different diagnoses I 
received within 2 weeks on the same cat and same symptoms.
   
  tonya

Lance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Ember went to the vet today for a CBC. We go roughly every three 
months. For the last eight or nine months, Ember has been losing 
weight. This particular problem started around last Christmas, when 
Ember developed diarrhea, and I had no idea of how to get rid of it. 
Pumpkin helped a little, but I was reluctant to try anything else, 
especially since it really didn't seem to be an infection. I decided 
to take Ember off of Innova EVO dry, and the diarrhea almost promptly 
went away.

Since then, Ember has been dropping weight. She's lost about 1.8 
pounds since that time until today, when she weighed 9.5 pounds. Now, 
this might be my fault. I hope it is, as that would be the easiest 
thing to fix. I've only been giving her a can of EVO a day for most 
of the time, and that might not be enough. In the last few weeks, 
I've also given her two cans of Sheba a week as treats.

Ember's CBC was normal, which, in her case, means good red blood cell 
count, and just below normal white blood cell count. The vet doesn't 
think that this is thyroid-related, but I might have her run that 
test on Ember in a few weeks.

Ember eats well (especially the Sheba). She is playful and loving as 
always. Should I try a brand new bag of EVO dry to see what adding 
that back might do? I would add that *very slowly*. Would it be okay 
for me to bump up Sheba, and has anyone fed much Sheba? The vet 
wanted Ember to come back in to be weighed in a few weeks, but I'd 
rather do that at home. Is there a postal or baby scale with which 
anyone here has had good results?

Thank you,

Lance

choosing a vet -OT

[catatonya]

How important is it to you when looking for a vet that it be
   
  1- a cat only clinic
  2-doesn't declaw
  3 doesn't take your cat 'to the back' to do everything?
   
  That is what I had and lost.  When Bob got sick last week I took off the 
morning to call and get him in and there was no doctor coming in at all until 
2:00.   So I tried this highly recommended new vet I'm seeing and she seems 
very knowledgeable and thorough, but doesn't meet any of those criteria.  She 
is far away, but they are open until 9:00 every night and Saturday and Sunday.  
That would keep me out of the emergency vets whom I hate..
   
  I'm just at a loss as to what to do.  I don't know of any other vets in my 
area that don't declaw.  The new vet at my old vet's office was required not to 
do it as part of the sale of the practice.  But she just does not seem good at 
all, she does everything in the back as wellthus wondering if I should put 
up with these things and use this new vet I feel is very knowledgeable or keep 
looking.   And I have been looking and looking.  :(
  tonya

ot-cisapride?

[catatonya]

My cat Bob is still having problems with constipation.  He is still currently 
negative for felv (just retested him last week).  He was positive as a kitten 
in 1992ish.  He then threw the virus, and has lived with 2 positives all his 
life.
   
  He is the one who has had the oxcylate crystals.  As some of you remember my 
vet quit to work on csi cases with aspca, etc  Bob was straining to urinate 
and I took him to the new vet at the clinic who gave him fluids and put him on 
baytril.
   
  After 2 days he seemed worse, and was also constipated.  I called another vet 
and she said that my 'new vet' had not done a culture, and she thought Bob's 
system was messed up by the Baytril.  She did a culture.   It was negative.  
And she took him off the antibiotic.  She gave him fluids, x-rayed for stones 
(none), no crystals, put him on lactulose.
   
  Well we finally ended up having to give him an enema.  She has found the 
start of kidney disease, and has me giving him 150 mL of fluids each week.
   
  The constipation is still there!  She had me buy something compounded called 
cisapride to help his GI system.  He won't take it and foams at the mouth and 
spits it out when he does.  I have discontinued it.  Has anyone ever used this 
before?  Same results?
   
  I have changed him to all wet food (royal canin s/o).  I am going to start 
putting pumpkin in it.  Any further suggestions
   
  tonya

Cindy & Smokey

[cindy reasoner]

I haven't been able to post in a long time.  I haven't
really been able to read any post but today I was able
to read a few.  I am not sure what is going on with
this site but all I know is that many caring people on
this site helped to save my precious Smokey.  He is
still doing good.  I am sorry for any of you that
might have lost any of your babies since I have been
away.  We lost our dog Elvis about 3 weeks ago and it
has been very hard.  He was 12 years old and had liver
cancer.  He had gotten really bad and we had to make
that awful decision to have him euthanized.  I took
him a rawhide to eat before the doctor did it. I was
able to spend some time alone with him before letting
him go. I hugged him the whole time and told him how
special he was. We didn't want to see him suffer and
he was getting very close to that point.  It was my
first time to go through this.  I am so glad now that
I stayed with him until the end.

Cindy


  

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel 
and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

Re: Kitten Update

[catatonya]

In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh.
   
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good 
idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I 
don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
   
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
   
  t

Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
> My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and
> we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
> know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to the
> volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I
> needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
> she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
> up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them
> in.

That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).

You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?

It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
come in to our local kill shelter.
-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!

Engystol & Quality Foods

[Dawn Morrison]

I took my little 2 year old, Bea, to a holistic/hemopathetic vet last night. He 
said she is doing very well and doesn't show any signs of the illness - thank 
God!
He put her on Transfer Factor Plus (which many of you had mentioned, thank you) 
and also Engystol.
I was wondering if anyone has heard of Engystol before or are currently using 
it?
 
He also gave me a very LARGE list of better quality foods wet/dry to put her on.
Does anyone have a particular brand they like over another? Pros/Cons to any 
brands?
 
I also wanted to share something he said to me. We were getting ready to leave 
and I asked if there was anything special I should do for her? He said "Yes, 
she doesn't know she is sick - so don't treat her like she is".
I immediately burst into tears, this vet is a keeper.
 
Thanks
D
 
 



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Re: Ember and weight loss

[MaryChristine]

there are a couple of websites you can find with just normal searches that
explain what all the test values should be, so you can help evaluate your
vet's evaluation. i think i found them through a, "feline blood test
results" search. (i'm still not back on my main computer, so can't find half
my stuff.)

even some of the "standards" are different--i think it seemed as if they
might have changed in the past years? so some vets may be working with older
guidelines.

and it's not ALWAYS the numbers--it's the constellation of symptoms that
count. a cat can have HORRIBLE numbers, but be so strong, or have more
things to accomplish on its journey here, that it stays around way longer
than it "should"--likewise, a kitty who tests out fine can crash in less
than 24 hours.

learn what values are most important in what conditions: belinda listed the
ones for kidney problems; there's a different set for liver. that way, if
you vet says your cat's bun is really high, and it's 36, you can say, um,
well

perhaps the most valuable thing this list can teach us is NOT to assume that
our veterinarians know everything, or have encountered everything. what
matters is their willingness to learn, to be open to our questions and the
information we bring them from our own sources, and their commitment to we,
their clients, and our cats.

MC

On 9/28/07, Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>What were his creatinine, BUN, phosphorus, potassium and HCT, those
> are the big numbers concerning CRF?  What lab were they sent to?
>
> --
>
> Belinda
> happiness is being owned by cats ...
>
> Be-Mi-Kitties
> http://bemikitties.com
>
> Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
> http://adopt.bemikitties.com
>
> FeLV Candlelight Service
> http://bemikitties.com/cls
>
> HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
> http://HostDesign4U.com
>
> 
>
> BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
> http://bmk.bemikitties.com
>
>
>


-- 

Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Kitten Update

[laurieskatz]

I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty water. 
Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in a stool 
sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it. 
Laurie
  - Original Message - 
  From: MaryChristine 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update


  kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't 
in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping 
lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's 
smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it. you 
know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just from 
the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma all its 
own. 

  i 


  On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I 
don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same 
litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day 
when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey ones 
are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so crazy last 
Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended up with one 
long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and couldn't get fixed yet 
because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had it before me was syringe 
feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate crunchies first?  So I 
started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will eat both now fine.  The 
cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it last Saturday and I think 
it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's clearly gained weight since I have 
had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so hard to tell when they are tiny and 
have long hair!).  It's getting more longer than fatter so the cat is really 
funny-looking now because it has this long, lean skinny mid-section and this 
big head that looks like it would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a 
fat snake belly everytime he eats and who has a tiny head!  
They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was a 
little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.  
We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to 
pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some 
answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
-Caroline 



--
  Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org



  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh. 

  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good 
idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I 
don't think I'd add another med. at this time.

  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again? 

  t

  Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
> My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
> Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that 
and 
> we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I 
don't
> know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to 
the
> volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and 
whom I 
> needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She 
said
> she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have 
shown
> up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I 
took them 
> in.

That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a "clean" environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after 
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in 

Re: Engystol & Quality Foods

[Marylyn]

I've switched Dixie over to Primal Raw + veggies.  She gets Wellness if we are 
traveling or time is tight.  






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:12 PM
  Subject: RE: Engystol & Quality Foods



  My cat and kittens really love the Wellness brand wet food (reccomended by my 
Holistic vet).  And I mean they LOVE it!  They eat it as if it's one of the 
brands like Sheba or Fancy Feast-- they just freak out over it.  You can also 
tell it's such a high-quality food just by the look of it and the smell...some 
varieties, like the adult wet formula, the one that has Lobster in it-- really 
smells like human food...it's crazy.  It's pretty expensive though.  I have my 
one year adult cat on Wellness adult wet and Wellness Core dry- which is 
Wellness's new high-protein food that is trying to take account for the "raw 
food" diet and translate that, as best it can, into a dry cat food.  I have had 
this one year old cat since the end of July and she came to me (as a two-time 
owner surrender) as skinny, frail, tiny necked, underweight more than a 
kitten-than-a-cat.  Already, she's packed on tons of muscle, but no extra 
weight.  She's matured into an adult cat overnight almost and she's not longer 
skinny and wimpy-- she's tough and beefy and all filled-out, but she doesn't 
have an once of fat on her body.  It's been really great to watch the 
transition and I do think it's all due to her diet, supplements and her happy 
home life.  
  -Caroline 




Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:06:03 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Engystol & Quality Foods
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org


I took my little 2 year old, Bea, to a holistic/hemopathetic vet last 
night. He said she is doing very well and doesn't show any signs of the illness 
- thank God!
He put her on Transfer Factor Plus (which many of you had mentioned, thank 
you) and also Engystol.
I was wondering if anyone has heard of Engystol before or are currently 
using it?

He also gave me a very LARGE list of better quality foods wet/dry to put 
her on.
Does anyone have a particular brand they like over another? Pros/Cons to 
any brands?

I also wanted to share something he said to me. We were getting ready to 
leave and I asked if there was anything special I should do for her? He said 
"Yes, she doesn't know she is sick - so don't treat her like she is".
I immediately burst into tears, this vet is a keeper.

Thanks
D





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out! 

RE: Cindy & Smokey

[MacKenzie, Kerry N.]

I'm so sorry for your loss Cindy, but I'm glad you were with Elvis all
the way, and he knew how very loved he was. I think it really helps--it
helped me, anyway.  
hugs, Kerry M. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cindy reasoner
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:53 PM
To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Cindy & Smokey

I haven't been able to post in a long time.  I haven't
really been able to read any post but today I was able
to read a few.  I am not sure what is going on with
this site but all I know is that many caring people on
this site helped to save my precious Smokey.  He is
still doing good.  I am sorry for any of you that
might have lost any of your babies since I have been
away.  We lost our dog Elvis about 3 weeks ago and it
has been very hard.  He was 12 years old and had liver
cancer.  He had gotten really bad and we had to make
that awful decision to have him euthanized.  I took
him a rawhide to eat before the doctor did it. I was
able to spend some time alone with him before letting
him go. I hugged him the whole time and told him how
special he was. We didn't want to see him suffer and
he was getting very close to that point.  It was my
first time to go through this.  I am so glad now that
I stayed with him until the end.

Cindy


 


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Re: Cindy & Smoke

[MaryChristine]

GLOW to heal your heart, cindy. elvis knows how much you loved him, and
those are their memories he carries with him now as he bounds about the
bridge, chasing after those cats who want to play!

hardest part of the critter-parenting job is learning when it's time to let
go, and whether we want to help them on their journey or not. everyone's
truth about that is different, and, i know in my case, with experience and
lessons taught by my fur children, my truth has grown and deepened with
time. i make very different decisions, and at different times than i did
with my first companions

"love them while you have them, for no matter how long that is, it's never
long enough."

MC

On 9/28/07, cindy reasoner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I haven't been able to post in a long time.  I haven't
> really been able to read any post but today I was able
> to read a few.  I am not sure what is going on with
> this site but all I know is that many caring people on
> this site helped to save my precious Smokey.  He is
> still doing good.  I am sorry for any of you that
> might have lost any of your babies since I have been
> away.  We lost our dog Elvis about 3 weeks ago and it
> has been very hard.  He was 12 years old and had liver
> cancer.  He had gotten really bad and we had to make
> that awful decision to have him euthanized.  I took
> him a rawhide to eat before the doctor did it. I was
> able to spend some time alone with him before letting
> him go. I hugged him the whole time and told him how
> special he was. We didn't want to see him suffer and
> he was getting very close to that point.  It was my
> first time to go through this.  I am so glad now that
> I stayed with him until the end.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>   
> 
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user
> panel and lay it on us.
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
>


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Spay & Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

RE: Engystol & Quality Foods

[Caroline Kaufmann]

My cat and kittens really love the Wellness brand wet food (reccomended by my 
Holistic vet).  And I mean they LOVE it!  They eat it as if it's one of the 
brands like Sheba or Fancy Feast-- they just freak out over it.  You can also 
tell it's such a high-quality food just by the look of it and the smell...some 
varieties, like the adult wet formula, the one that has Lobster in it-- really 
smells like human food...it's crazy.  It's pretty expensive though.  I have my 
one year adult cat on Wellness adult wet and Wellness Core dry- which is 
Wellness's new high-protein food that is trying to take account for the "raw 
food" diet and translate that, as best it can, into a dry cat food.  I have had 
this one year old cat since the end of July and she came to me (as a two-time 
owner surrender) as skinny, frail, tiny necked, underweight more than a 
kitten-than-a-cat.  Already, she's packed on tons of muscle, but no extra 
weight.  She's matured into an adult cat overnight almost and she's not longer 
skinny and wimpy-- she's tough and beefy and all filled-out, but she doesn't 
have an once of fat on her body.  It's been really great to watch the 
transition and I do think it's all due to her diet, supplements and her happy 
home life.  
-Caroline 


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:06:03 -0700From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Engystol & 
Quality FoodsTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org







I took my little 2 year old, Bea, to a holistic/hemopathetic vet last night. He 
said she is doing very well and doesn't show any signs of the illness - thank 
God!
He put her on Transfer Factor Plus (which many of you had mentioned, thank you) 
and also Engystol.
I was wondering if anyone has heard of Engystol before or are currently using 
it?
 
He also gave me a very LARGE list of better quality foods wet/dry to put her on.
Does anyone have a particular brand they like over another? Pros/Cons to any 
brands?
 
I also wanted to share something he said to me. We were getting ready to leave 
and I asked if there was anything special I should do for her? He said "Yes, 
she doesn't know she is sick - so don't treat her like she is".
I immediately burst into tears, this vet is a keeper.
 
Thanks
D
 
 

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knows.Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

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RE: Engystol & Quality Foods

[Rosenfeldt, Diane]

This is very encouraging, Caroline.  We've just started feeding the
Wellness cans to our skinny old hyperthyroid Missy, trying to give her a
little more "heft."  While at this 
point it's not really our #1 concern that she not get fat (we are also
feeding her empty 
calories in the form of thin-sliced lunch meat and sour cream, as well
as Nutrical), it's 
good to know that the Wellness is having such a good outcome with your
furkids.
 
Now if she'd just hit the litterbox.  She doesn't care for the Booda
Dome Clean Step.  
Had to take the dome off, she doesn't use the steps, and only uses the
litterbox part 
when she feels like it.  Yesterday we found 4 perfectly aligned and
spaced little turds 
in graduated sizes leading away from the box.  It felt like some sort of
message we're 
not getting, like crop circles.
 
Diane R.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline
Kaufmann
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:13 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Engystol & Quality Foods



My cat and kittens really love the Wellness brand wet food (reccomended
by my Holistic vet).  And I mean they LOVE it!  They eat it as if it's
one of the brands like Sheba or Fancy Feast-- they just freak out over
it.  You can also tell it's such a high-quality food just by the look of
it and the smell...some varieties, like the adult wet formula, the one
that has Lobster in it-- really smells like human food...it's crazy.
It's pretty expensive though.  I have my one year adult cat on Wellness
adult wet and Wellness Core dry- which is Wellness's new high-protein
food that is trying to take account for the "raw food" diet and
translate that, as best it can, into a dry cat food.  I have had this
one year old cat since the end of July and she came to me (as a two-time
owner surrender) as skinny, frail, tiny necked, underweight more than a
kitten-than-a-cat.  Already, she's packed on tons of muscle, but no
extra weight.  She's matured into an adult cat overnight almost and
she's not longer skinny and wimpy-- she's tough and beefy and all
filled-out, but she doesn't have an once of fat on her body.  It's been
really great to watch the transition and I do think it's all due to her
diet, supplements and her happy home life.  
-Caroline 





Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:06:03 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Engystol & Quality Foods
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org


I took my little 2 year old, Bea, to a holistic/hemopathetic vet
last night. He said she is doing very well and doesn't show any signs of
the illness - thank God!
He put her on Transfer Factor Plus (which many of you had
mentioned, thank you) and also Engystol.
I was wondering if anyone has heard of Engystol before or are
currently using it?
 
He also gave me a very LARGE list of better quality foods
wet/dry to put her on.
Does anyone have a particular brand they like over another?
Pros/Cons to any brands?
 
I also wanted to share something he said to me. We were getting
ready to leave and I asked if there was anything special I should do for
her? He said "Yes, she doesn't know she is sick - so don't treat her
like she is".
I immediately burst into tears, this vet is a keeper.
 
Thanks
D
 
 



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 from
someone who knows.
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it out!   

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They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient.  If you have 
received this 
transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the 
transmission from 
your system.  In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we 
are required to 
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any advice we 
provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or 
submissions is not 
intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax 
penalties.

RE: Engystol & Quality Foods

[Chris]

I switched to Wellness wet when I realized that all my cats were turning
into little porkos!   LOL  I figured they didn't need all those fillers.
They love the Wellness & I really saw differences in their coats.  However,
they really don't like the dry Wellness for some reason.  I give them very
little dry food (late night munchies for their teeth!) anyway and it works
out OK.  Only problem I had was finding Wellness food.  I was ordering
online until I found a small pet shop locally who can order it for me.  Its
more expensive than other foods but quite frankly, I find they don't eat as
much of it as they do other wet foods.  They seem to be satisfied with less
of it.  Generally, I feed wet food twice a day & I end up using two large
cans maximum for 5 cats.  I know they don't want more cause if I put out
more, they walk away--& trust me, they're not the walk away from food
types  

 

They also love Fancy Feast & Sheba, and sometimes, just for a change, I'll
give them some of that.  And then of course, there's the extra piece of fish
or steak or whatever that they occasionally get in lieu of Wellness..  LOL

 

Christiane Biagi

914-632-4672

Cell:  914-720-6888

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)

www.findkpets.org

 

Join Us & Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:13 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Engystol & Quality Foods

 


My cat and kittens really love the Wellness brand wet food (reccomended by
my Holistic vet).  And I mean they LOVE it!  They eat it as if it's one of
the brands like Sheba or Fancy Feast-- they just freak out over it.  You can
also tell it's such a high-quality food just by the look of it and the
smell...some varieties, like the adult wet formula, the one that has Lobster
in it-- really smells like human food...it's crazy.  It's pretty expensive
though.  I have my one year adult cat on Wellness adult wet and Wellness
Core dry- which is Wellness's new high-protein food that is trying to take
account for the "raw food" diet and translate that, as best it can, into a
dry cat food.  I have had this one year old cat since the end of July and
she came to me (as a two-time owner surrender) as skinny, frail, tiny
necked, underweight more than a kitten-than-a-cat.  Already, she's packed on
tons of muscle, but no extra weight.  She's matured into an adult cat
overnight almost and she's not longer skinny and wimpy-- she's tough and
beefy and all filled-out, but she doesn't have an once of fat on her body.
It's been really great to watch the transition and I do think it's all due
to her diet, supplements and her happy home life.  
-Caroline 

  _  

Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:06:03 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Engystol & Quality Foods
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

I took my little 2 year old, Bea, to a holistic/hemopathetic vet last night.
He said she is doing very well and doesn't show any signs of the illness -
thank God!

He put her on Transfer Factor Plus (which many of you had mentioned, thank
you) and also Engystol.

I was wondering if anyone has heard of Engystol before or are currently
using it?

 

He also gave me a very LARGE list of better quality foods wet/dry to put her
on.

Does anyone have a particular brand they like over another? Pros/Cons to any
brands?

 

I also wanted to share something he said to me. We were getting ready to
leave and I asked if there was anything special I should do for her? He said
"Yes, she doesn't know she is sick - so don't treat her like she is".

I immediately burst into tears, this vet is a keeper.

 

Thanks

D

 

 

 

  _  

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 from someone who
knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

 

 

  _  

Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
  

 

  _  

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out!  

RE: Engystol & Quality Foods

[Rosenfeldt, Diane]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn Morrison
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:06 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Engystol & Quality Foods


 > I also wanted to share something he said to me. We were getting ready
to leave and I asked if there was anything special I should do for her?

 > He said "Yes,  she doesn't know she is sick - so don't treat her like
she is".
 > I immediately burst into tears, this vet is a keeper. 
 
OMG, I would have too.  He really *gets* it.
 
Diane R. 

This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may 
be privileged.  
They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient.  If you have 
received this 
transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the 
transmission from 
your system.  In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we 
are required to 
inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, 
any advice we 
provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or 
submissions is not 
intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax 
penalties.

Junior/Pewter

[Sally Davis]

Hi Folks,

Today Pewter got her booster shots for as they call it distemper feline
leukemia, and rabies. SHe manages to get in my rrom with regularity. This is
where I keep Junior my FELV+ kitty.

Next week is the one year anniversary of his positive test. He had a rough
go of it until January. Finally I got him where he was stable and w/o pain.
That in itself is controversial, so I won't go there. We make choices about
quality of life for our babies and junior is better w/o pain and he is on a
medicine that could cause problems later.

While at the vet I had to get Revolution for some of the cats (OUCH). Pewter
had ear mites when I got her. She was treated for them on her first visit.
Junior has them now, but I think it is because they switched rooms. It is
amazing that little critters you cannot see are crawling on your bedding.
  I also got Junior Baytril the URI is going on 5 weeks maybe more. And
though he still eats well he seems like he was having a problem getting
comfortable last night, due to the congestion. He did a round of Amoxicillin
that he finished off over a week ago.

That is about it for the update.

Sally
-- 
Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior, Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little
Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver, and  Spike  Visit my BB for some pictures post
your as well.

http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3

Someone please help me educate these Petfinder forum people...

[Kelley Saveika]

[quote="palikakitty"]Kutin and I rescued two cats from a kill shelter
and got them into a no-kill shelter. They were buddies. One was very
obese and eventually had to be put to sleep. Allie became very
depressed, stopped eating, etc. The shelter director asked me if I
would foster her. I took her tight to the vet as I have 10 cats and
can't afford to introduce a sick one. She stayed 2 weeks, got fluids,
etc. All tests came back ok except high FIP titer (1:800). Vet
recommended not putting her into my house until second FIP test in 6
weeks. Kept her in my elderly mother's basement, retested, titer
didn't change, no symptoms, vet said ok. My friend who has 3
indooroutdoor cats took her, she was fine then got a runny eye. Took
her to the vet, her vet got records from my vet and then chaos started
again. My new vet now says she wouldn't introduce this cat into my
population. She says she doesn't even suppor keeping her in our
garage/screenhouse because we could track in the virus. If we can't
find this very sweet cat a home being an only cat, we are going to
have her PTS. She is so lonely. My mom is 86 and can't take care of
a cat so that's not an option. That's my story. I am going to talk
to the vet about the Rivalta test.[/quote]

A titer test is NOT an FIP test. I don't know why anyone would even
DO a titer test unless a cat got ill and had FIP like symptoms. There
is no reason to find the cat a home being an only cat. 90%~ of all
cats who have ever been through a shelter shed coronavirus and it is
harmless except in the few cats in which it mutates to FIP. FIP *is
NOT contagious*.

Please, please find a better vet, before even considering killing this
very likely healthy cat.

If you have 10 cats in your house, 99.5% chance they have ALL been
exposed to coronavirus.

Seriously, please educate yourself before doing *anything*. Please
please please.

http://forums.petfinder.com/viewtopic.php?p=1451206#1451206

I just can't stand to think of someone killing a perfectly healthy cat
because it has a high titer test...



-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!

Kitten update Take 2

[Caroline Kaufmann]

I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
("what do I do!?").  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is "like bubbles" and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said "h..."  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).  
 
I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
 
I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He 
was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
 
If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
"here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!"  
 
One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- just 
a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at work 
so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had them.  I 
don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat just ate 
too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically whole!
 
A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels with 
them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I now got 
my "coop cups" in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing our 
crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about my 
online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that I 
couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities are 
just more admirable now!  I also got my "Just Born" in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
 
-Caroline 
_
Discover the new Windows Vista
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

Re: Kitten update Take 2

[Sherry DeHaan]

Hi Caroline,I have never heard of them needing a sample straight from the cats 
butt to check for Giardia.I have left samples in the fridge at the shelter for 
it to be checked and it showed up in my Genevieves when I first brought her 
home.And thank goodness none of the boys caught it!!
Sherry
Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  
padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }I 
got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
("what do I do!?").  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is "like bubbles" and you can see them
 really clearly under a microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty 
much from butt to microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few 
seconds, they start to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how 
he described it.  I told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said 
"h..."  He wanted to know when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He 
said that is not too much time so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving 
them all Liquid Immodium AD- 1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we 
will try some other things (I guess looking for giardia).  
 
I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
 
I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He 
was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
 
If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
"here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!"  
 
One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- just 
a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at work 
so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had them.  I 
don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat just ate 
too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically whole!
 
A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels with 
them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I now got 
my "coop cups" in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing our 
crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about my 
online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that I 
couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities are 
just more admirable now!  I also got my "Just Born" in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
 
-Caroline 

  
-
  Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more! 

   
-
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Re: Kitten update Take 2

[laurieskatz]

poor baby.
could it be a food allergy?
 ibd?
can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
My best.
So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
Laurie
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
  Subject: Kitten update Take 2 


  I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
("what do I do!?").  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is "like bubbles" and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said "h..."  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).  
   
  I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
   
  I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He 
was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
   
  If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
"here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!"  
   
  One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- 
just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at 
work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had 
them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat 
just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole!
   
  A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels 
with them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I 
now got my "coop cups" in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing 
our crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about 
my online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that 
I couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities 
are just more admirable now!  I also got my "Just Born" in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
   
  -Caroline 


--
  Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more! 

Re: Engystol & Quality Foods

[Marylyn]

By any chance are you using litter with a scent?  If so, try changing to an 
unscented version.  No cat I have had likes (and some refuse) the scented 
version.






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rosenfeldt, Diane 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:30 PM
  Subject: RE: Engystol & Quality Foods


  This is very encouraging, Caroline.  We've just started feeding the Wellness 
cans to our skinny old hyperthyroid Missy, trying to give her a little more 
"heft."  While at this 
  point it's not really our #1 concern that she not get fat (we are also 
feeding her empty 
  calories in the form of thin-sliced lunch meat and sour cream, as well as 
Nutrical), it's 
  good to know that the Wellness is having such a good outcome with your 
furkids.

  Now if she'd just hit the litterbox.  She doesn't care for the Booda Dome 
Clean Step.  
  Had to take the dome off, she doesn't use the steps, and only uses the 
litterbox part 
  when she feels like it.  Yesterday we found 4 perfectly aligned and spaced 
little turds 
  in graduated sizes leading away from the box.  It felt like some sort of 
message we're 
  not getting, like crop circles.

  Diane R.



--
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
Kaufmann
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:13 PM
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: RE: Engystol & Quality Foods



  My cat and kittens really love the Wellness brand wet food (reccomended by my 
Holistic vet).  And I mean they LOVE it!  They eat it as if it's one of the 
brands like Sheba or Fancy Feast-- they just freak out over it.  You can also 
tell it's such a high-quality food just by the look of it and the smell...some 
varieties, like the adult wet formula, the one that has Lobster in it-- really 
smells like human food...it's crazy.  It's pretty expensive though.  I have my 
one year adult cat on Wellness adult wet and Wellness Core dry- which is 
Wellness's new high-protein food that is trying to take account for the "raw 
food" diet and translate that, as best it can, into a dry cat food.  I have had 
this one year old cat since the end of July and she came to me (as a two-time 
owner surrender) as skinny, frail, tiny necked, underweight more than a 
kitten-than-a-cat.  Already, she's packed on tons of muscle, but no extra 
weight.  She's matured into an adult cat overnight almost and she's not longer 
skinny and wimpy-- she's tough and beefy and all filled-out, but she doesn't 
have an once of fat on her body.  It's been really great to watch the 
transition and I do think it's all due to her diet, supplements and her happy 
home life.  
  -Caroline 




Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:06:03 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Engystol & Quality Foods
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org


I took my little 2 year old, Bea, to a holistic/hemopathetic vet last 
night. He said she is doing very well and doesn't show any signs of the illness 
- thank God!
He put her on Transfer Factor Plus (which many of you had mentioned, thank 
you) and also Engystol.
I was wondering if anyone has heard of Engystol before or are currently 
using it?

He also gave me a very LARGE list of better quality foods wet/dry to put 
her on.
Does anyone have a particular brand they like over another? Pros/Cons to 
any brands?

I also wanted to share something he said to me. We were getting ready to 
leave and I asked if there was anything special I should do for her? He said 
"Yes, she doesn't know she is sick - so don't treat her like she is".
I immediately burst into tears, this vet is a keeper.

Thanks
D





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Re: Kitten update Take 2

[Marylyn]

The food allergy is a really good thought.  The Royal Princess Kitty Katt 
developed one at about 12 years of age + developed a problem processing fatty 
foods.  Really big problems odorwise.  Try an elimination diet? 






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: laurieskatz 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Kitten update Take 2 


  poor baby.
  could it be a food allergy?
   ibd?
  can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
  I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
  www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
  My best.
  So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
  Laurie
- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2 


I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
("what do I do!?").  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is "like bubbles" and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said "h..."  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).  
 
I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
 
I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  
He was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
 
If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
"here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!"  
 
One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- 
just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at 
work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had 
them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat 
just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole!
 
A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels 
with them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I 
now got my "coop cups" in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing 
our crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about 
my online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that 
I couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities 
are just more admirable now!  I also got my "Just Born" in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
 
-Caroline 


--

RE: Kitten update Take 2

[Caroline Kaufmann]

I have no idea?  I guess I just have to wait and see and keep working the vet.  
I can always take him to Monkee's Holistic Vet next week if we don't get 
anywhere with the regular vet.  Second opinion.
 
I'll tell him you sent his regards, but I don't think he will care!  The 
funniest thing is that the little monster feels fine!  He's super Yoda!  He's 
eating like a pig still, drinking water (out of his coup cup already!) and 
sleeping normally.  He plays like a maniac...attacking the other kittens like 
it's his job.  He wrestles with Izzee and continues to scream like a little 
baby girl when they are going at it (his usual routine)!  He just has diarrhea 
after he eatsbut he doesn't seem to care!  He acts like nothing is out of 
order.  He cracks me up.  And I know what he is like when he is ill because 
that is the condition he first came to me in...struggling to breathe, wanting 
to sleep all the time, but having restless sleep, never playing at all...just 
wanting to lay on my chest and be a sick-baby and wanting Izzee to cuddle him 
(which she wanted nothing to do with!).  Those days are long gone and I miss 
them, but know it's better to have a maniac cat on my hands then a sicky-poo!  
Hopefully, because of this history with him, I will be able to tell if/when 
he's starting to feel really crappy.
 
-Caroline 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten update Take 2 Date: Fri, 
28 Sep 2007 16:38:13 -0600



poor baby.
could it be a food allergy? ibd?
can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
My best.
So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
Laurie

- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2 
I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
("what do I do!?").  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is "like bubbles" and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said "h..."  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).   I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I 
have two thoughs: #1) it's a random virus that they could have picked up when 
we went to Sat. cat adoption day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen 
and they did not meet any of the condo cats at the store, they were in the same 
general area and if it's possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just 
by being in the same area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will 
need Yoda's actual butt to diagnosis it! I came home early from work and Yoda 
had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He was eating dry crunchies when I came 
in.  I immediately gave everyone their Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and 
Yoda had two more separate piles of even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to 
mention, he trashed his crate afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He 
gets away with it because he's cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I 
know I need to give the Immodium more of a chance...but still?!   If it 
continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, "here's 
his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of like 2 
minutes!"   One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this 
morning-- just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while 
I was at work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've 
had them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the 
cat just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole! A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I 

RE: Kitten update Take 2

[Caroline Kaufmann]

I have no idea?  I guess I just have to wait and see and keep working the vet.  
I can always take him to Monkee's Holistic Vet next week if we don't get 
anywhere with the regular vet.  Second opinion.
 
I'll tell him you sent his regards, but I don't think he will care!  The 
funniest thing is that the little monster feels fine!  He's super Yoda!  He's 
eating like a pig still, drinking water (out of his coup cup already!) and 
sleeping normally.  He plays like a maniac...attacking the other kittens like 
it's his job.  He wrestles with Izzee and continues to scream like a little 
baby girl when they are going at it (his usual routine)!  He just has diarrhea 
after he eatsbut he doesn't seem to care!  He acts like nothing is out of 
order.  He cracks me up.  And I know what he is like when he is ill because 
that is the condition he first came to me in...struggling to breathe, wanting 
to sleep all the time, but having restless sleep, never playing at all...just 
wanting to lay on my chest and be a sick-baby and wanting Izzee to cuddle him 
(which she wanted nothing to do with!).  Those days are long gone and I miss 
them, but know it's better to have a maniac cat on my hands then a sicky-poo!  
Hopefully, because of this history with him, I will be able to tell if/when 
he's starting to feel really crappy.
 
-Caroline 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten update Take 2 Date: Fri, 
28 Sep 2007 16:38:13 -0600



poor baby.
could it be a food allergy? ibd?
can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
My best.
So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
Laurie

- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2 
I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
("what do I do!?").  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is "like bubbles" and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said "h..."  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).   I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I 
have two thoughs: #1) it's a random virus that they could have picked up when 
we went to Sat. cat adoption day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen 
and they did not meet any of the condo cats at the store, they were in the same 
general area and if it's possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just 
by being in the same area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will 
need Yoda's actual butt to diagnosis it! I came home early from work and Yoda 
had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He was eating dry crunchies when I came 
in.  I immediately gave everyone their Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and 
Yoda had two more separate piles of even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to 
mention, he trashed his crate afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He 
gets away with it because he's cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I 
know I need to give the Immodium more of a chance...but still?!   If it 
continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, "here's 
his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of like 2 
minutes!"   One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this 
morning-- just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while 
I was at work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've 
had them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the 
cat just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole! A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I