Re: [Felvtalk] OT-diatomaceous earth - warning

[janine paton]

I am sorry, I haven't been following this thread but caught the diatomaceous 
warning.  Hoping they still make this, but 1-800-flea busters out of FL. is my 
favorite product to use.  It's a little work, but I think I was over zealous 
the first year.  Third yr I used it, I was not so diligent, but it worked just 
fine.  It is safe, and it lasts a year and that's the real bonus.  Takes a few 
weeks to work, but it really does.  

Janine 



 From: Lorrie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] OT-diatomaceous earth - warning
 

Very scary Beth,  Thanks for the warning.


On 07-01, Beth wrote:
>    I don't want to start a barrage of OT emails with this post. Just a
>    quick warnng to be careful
>    I tried the food grade diatomaceous earth this weekend to try to stop
>    the fleas. I have all hardwood floors - really old ones, with lots of
>    crevices for the flea eggs to hide in.
>    I wore a good sanding mask which blocks small particles. I opened the
>    windows (as many as I could without danger of the cats getting out).
>    I sprinkled it in the product on the floors using a sieve. I gently
>    swept it into the cracks in the floor in my bedroom & hallway. If did
>    not create any visible dust clouds, etc.
>    I went outside, took the mask off & sat for a bit.
>    When I went back inside I could not breath. My mouth immediately became
>    parched & my throat started closing.
>    I grabbed some water & went back outside.
>    I spent the rest of the day with the mask back on washing the floors
>    trying to get rid of the stuff.
>    Please be careful. I am a very active, relatively young  person. I
>    don't have breathing issues.  This was quite scary.
>    In addition to the breathing issues, some of it got on my skin & it
>    just burned.
>    Again, yes, this was the food grade kind.
>    I know people on this list use it & have no problems. That's great. But
>    if you have not tried it, please be careful if you do. Try it in a very
>    small area, first.
>    I guess I will go back to vacuuming & flea combing.
>    I may use the rest in the yard since most of the problem seems to be my
>    dog bringing them in from outside.
>    Beth

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Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[janine paton]

I am so not a fan of metacam either, other than one or two days.  More than one 
day is off label and for good reason.  Agree with Susan, use torbulgesic or 
buprenex, which addresses cancer pain much better.  I don't get why vets 
continue to use metacam.   Maybe they will stop when they have a cat go into 
kidney failure, which is why my vet stopped using it.  I would say talk to 
another vet about this, not the ones recommending the metacam.  

Janine




From: Susan Hoffman 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 9:31:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone


I'm a fan of metacam.  I've never used it in an FeLV cat and you cannot use it 
if a cat has kidney issues, but for mild pains, like aches and sprains and 
arthritis, it helps.  But it's given in a tiny amount, weight-based, and only 
every two or three days. Don't overdo it.  Also, it is an antinflammatory so I 
would not give it with pred.  I'vr never had it prescribed with pred.

For a tumor however you may need a stronger pain med, like torbulgesic or 
buprenex, so talk to your vet about this.





 From: Lance 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:58 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
 

Hi all,

I posted recently about my FeLV+ girl, Ember. Since she most likely has (at 
least) a lung tumor, I'm going to get her on pain meds soon, despite the fact 
that most of the differences in her behavior are minor. Our "second opinion" 
vet 
prescribed metacam, and an oncologist who consulted with Ember's primary vet 
also recommended metacam. 


These are smart, experienced folks with lots of education. But, I'm seeing so 
much outcry over metacam online that I'm very reluctant to give it to Ember. 
I'd 
love to ease any discomfort she might be having, and metacam would be easy to 
give. What are your thoughts on metacam?

I'm also wondering if prednisone might be helpful in reducing any inflammation 
that Ember is dealing with. I know people on the list have used it, but I'm 
concerned about its ability to create low wbc. Ember already has that issue, 
due 
to being FeLV+. Would folks who have pred experience in FeLV+ cats mind posting 
your  experiences?

Thanks,

Lance
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Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats

[janine paton]

Amen to that and great point about all the salmonella from commercial food!

My house has been a great experiment in raw vs commercial.  While feeding a raw 
food diet (same one as on catnutrition.org) my cats rarely had a hairball, 
never 
had crystals or any type of cystitis, had sleek coats and great muscle tone. 
 And they were members of the clean plate club every single meal.  While NOT 
feeding a raw diet,  it's been hairballs the size of small mice, excessive 
shedding, dental disease, IBD, one poor guy with crystals, fussier eaters and 
too many cats with intestinal lymphoma.  And more than one cat eating paper...

Janine






From: Tracey Shrout 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Sat, March 16, 2013 11:59:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats

KG, very well said...I wholeheartedly agree!


On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 11:51 AM, KG BarnCats  wrote:

Hi,
>For several years I have primarily fed home made raw to my horde of cats (FELV 
>+ 
>separated) and dogs, and have never had any food related problem whatsoever. 
> They are in wonderful condition. I do mix in some fish as a treat every week 
> or 
>so, but it is canned tuna, mackerel, or sardines (all in water, not oil).  I 
>carefully follow a balanced recipe with no grains, starches, veggies.
>
>I make a point of being very well read on the publicized risks but I think 
>they 
>are very overstated - after all, raw is what cats evolved to eat over millions 
>of years.  Their digestive systems are short and acidic.   Most vets are 
>poorly 
>trained on nutrition and much of that training comes via the pet food 
>industry, 
>which makes a bundle selling biologically inappropriate grain laden, carb 
>heavy, 
>overproccessed, overpriced crap.  Of course they fear-monger about raw food, 
>even for cats with perfectly healthy immune systems.  As if dry food hasn't 
>been 
>proven to have frequent contamination with salmonella etc.  No human has ever 
>been shown to catch disease from raw food, but there are loads of cases of 
>people getting it from commercial pet food.  And that doesn't even begin to 
>address the factors of salivary enzymes as the cat gnaws chunks of meat/bone, 
>or 
>the enzymes and nutrients destroyed by the disgusting rendering process, or 
>the 
>plastic and filth cooked in with the often rancid ingredients.  Or the risk of 
>tainted ingredients. Or the fact that cats are far less healthy overall than 
>they were 50 years ago... just research the huge jump in diabetes, obesity, 
>kidney disease, cancer, etc.  Why do most cats now routinely die in their 
>early 
>teens at best, when they used to live so much longer?  Why?
>
>If one believes that fresh, natural food is better for people than processed 
>food, then why treat animals any different?  I believe sick or 
>immunocompromised 
>animals need more nutrition, not less.  They need the best quality food 
>possible, and I think that is the food they evolved to eat.   I wish I could 
>feed whole prey, but it's unaffordable.  On the other hand, homemade raw is 
>made 
>with far better ingredients yet costs so much less than commercial food - 
>about 
>35 cents a day.  
>
>Which do you trust more?  Millions of years of mother nature's success, or the 
>money-motivated pet food industry? 
>
>
>Ok, getting off soapbox now.  :)
>Kg
>
>
>
>On Saturday, March 16, 2013, Maryam Ulomi  wrote:
>> Hi Carrie,
>> I am so sorry to hear about your kitties. And I am praying they get better 
>> very 
>>soon.
>> I had put a post up asking the group about raw food for FeLV cats but no one 
>>responded or commented about using that for their cats.
>> I have read that for FeLV cats it might be a hazard because their systems 
>>cannot withstand any challenges from parasites.
>> Also I have read that seafood is not recommended for FeLV cats so I do not 
>> feed 
>>any seafood to mine.
>> I am trying to find a holistic vet to start my FeLV cat on a special diet 
>> but 
>>it's always best to be in contact with a vet when starting the home cook diet 
>>or 
>>a raw diet.
>> If the cats are sick l would take them to vet so they can be treated right 
>>away, with FeLV early prevention is the best policy.
>> Hope this helps, please send an update soon.
>> Sent from my iPad
>> On Mar 15, 2013, at 23:45, Carrie Rosenblatt  wrote:
>>
>> hi. I saw this online - and wondered what you found out about raw food for 
>> FeLV 
>>cats. I had one at my apt for a night, and gave him homemade food, which was 
>>made with raw meat, but no pieces of meat was in what I gave him, just the 
>>grains and tuna and supplements, but I was wondering if the juice or residue 
>>from the raw meat could have hurt him, as he is very sick and getting worse.
>> cr
>>
>> 
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>
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Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

[janine paton]

The stress of an unspayed female is great, I think much greater than the 
spaying 
itself.  And it may be true that pyometria is more common in dogs, but boy have 
we seen plenty in outside cats, even young ones.  One couldn't have been more 
than a year old and we had no idea her slightly swollen belly was pyometria. 
 And have h ad a few with mammary cancer also.  Not worth it.  Use a decent vet 
and get your cat spayed!  




From: Lee Evans 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Sent: Tue, November 20, 2012 8:57:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice


Amen to that sister.  My cat Cookie, long ago, was borderline diabetic.  The 
vet 
didn't want to subject her to anesthesia because he said she was an older cat 
and might develop full blown diabetes since she was on the edge. So I didn't 
have her spayed.  She went into her heat cycle several more times, then gave it 
up as a bad idea.  She lived an additional 5 years with me as a house feral. 
One 
day I noticed blood on her chair towel (I use towels to cover the plastic 
chairs 
in my house.  Everything here has to be washable).  I also noticed that Cookie 
was acting very lethargic.  I finally got her into a carrier.  At the clinic 
they flipped her over and I was horrified.  All her nipples were black, some 
were enlarged, two were bleeding.  She had severe mammary cancer.  The vet said 
she  was probably in pain.  There was nothing I could do.  He gave her a pain 
injection.  She became drowsy and I allowed him to euthanize her.  I will NEVER 
NOT SPAY a cat.  Male cats can get prostate cancer.  There is no proven reason 
why cats and dogs can't be spayed and neutered.  Humans have the operation all 
the time for ovarian cancer and prostate cancer.  If physicians didn't do 
hysterectomies on women with cancer or with precancerous lesions the cancers 
would metastasize and more people would die.  


In addition, try and get an intact spraying male cat or howling female cat 
adopted.  It will just not work.

Or, as an alternative, get the female's tubes tied and give the male a 
vasectomy 
and you still have all the mating behavior in addition to the operations 
costing 
almost a thousand dollars as opposed to spay/neuter that can be had for a cost 
as low as $15 including rabies shot.

I  want to add that my mother, a registered nurse at the time, forbade me to 
have any of our yard cats neutered or spayed citing the ridiculous argument 
that 
animals and people have to be left natural.  Consequently I allowed two intact 
cats to remain that way, filling my yard with 7 kittens who, although I didn't 
know it, were FeLv positive and active for the disease.  They all died.  Had I 
spayed and neutered mom and dad cat, I would have saved 7 kittens from being 
born and dying in illness and discomfort and possibly saved mom and dad cats 
from wandering away to spread the disease all over the neighborhood.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!






 From: Beth 
>To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
>Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:15 AM
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
> 
>
>I'm not going to start an argument over one study. 
>Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had. The 
>spay 
>was easy & she recovered quickly.
>My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's - all 
>spayed.
>Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles, are 
>much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
>Cats (& dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra) from 
>not 
>being spayed..
>
>There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about not 
>getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.
>
>
>Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
> 
>
>
>


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Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[janine paton]

Alev, 

I am so sorry this has happened to you and River.  River is a beautiful name, 
btw, and one I gave to a rescue cat we took in recently.  I don't know what 
else 
to say other than I am hoping you someday find peace with what has happened 
knowing your intentions were only the best, and you only wanted to help her.  

Some of these types of shelters have come a long way, but still have a long way 
to go.  They can be ignorant and misinformed and how could you have known this? 
 

Best to you, 

Janine




From: Alev Durmus 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Sent: Tue, October 16, 2012 1:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat


Hi Christiane,

Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too 
late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their 
website 
for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this. People are 
happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals, but they are 
helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I want to send 
them 
an email, what should I say? I want to say the right things and not sound like 
a 
crazy  woman...

Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that this 
shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in that area) 
are very lucky. Take care,
 
Alev



 From: Christiane Biagi 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk]  "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it 
means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to the 
individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All too 
often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they 
will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a 
healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever publish 
their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they 
will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by Nathan 
Winograd) 
are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) & 
the 
handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally  ill animals who were 
either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!  

 
The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
alerted 
you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an attitude 
that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to you but 
please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a 
very long time.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
Durmus
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos

[janine paton]

Hi Natalie, 

We are not certain which is this kitten's mom, because the whole colony is 
mixed 
up.  One mom drops 2 kittens off, another picks them up.  They are all sharing. 
 




From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Mon, October 8, 2012 11:06:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos


Janine, you wrote that some of their moms tested negative.  How about the 
positive kitten’s mom - was she pos or neg?  I would retest with the ELISA.  I 
find it strange that a kitten would show a weak positive if the mother was 
positive because their kittens are positive, or should be.  If the kitten’s mom 
is not positive, could this kittens have been exposed to a positive cat and 
therefore be a weak positive?  What was the vet’s explanation?
I don’t have much experience with FeLV – I have quite a few FIV.  I had a FeLV+ 
kitten years ago, and he died within 2 months.  Last year, I had 2 FeLV+ adult 
cats (already in the bone marrow), one died of CRF and the other one was 
adopted 
by a veterinarian and still doing really well.
Those two FeLV+ cats were living with a large group of healthy cats for about 6 
months…I have retested, starting with the youngest and oldest, and then 
everyone 
in the middle – not a single cat contracted FeLV!  I consider myself quite 
lucky!  But there are many on this list who have FeLV+ cats living with healthy 
ones, some vaccinate the healthy ones, and some do not.
Natalie
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of janine 
paton
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 8:21 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos
 
Can anyone explain to me why if from point of exposure to actually testing pos 
is 28 days, if this is correct, why we can't just retest in one month using 
Elisa?  And if all excepting the one testing weak pos, stjill test neg, is this 
good enough?  All 8 kittens and some of their moms tested neg, just the one a 
weak pos.  I am asking because I am trying to make this make sense to me and 
keep everyone safe.  And foster homes understanding. 
 
Thanks, 
Janine
 



From:Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Fri, October 5, 2012 8:52:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
I agree, they have been very civil!  Natalie
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane 
Rosenfeldt
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:23 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
 
Thanks, Lee, I was about to say that I have never seen anyone not get responded 
to on this list in their time of need and emotional turmoil. Going offtopic is 
almost inevitable when you’re on a specialized list like this. I think the OT 
discussion has been amazingly civil and respectful. As it happens, I will be 
voting Democrat because I feel they are in touch with, and care about, the 
people that the Republicans have referred to as the 47% they’re not interested 
in reaching. My reasons have to do with the way the most vulnerable among us 
would be treated under each party. I feel people like most of us, who are sort 
of getting by or not quite getting by or getting by only because we get a 
pension or disability or whatever, need people in government who are interested 
in reaching us.
 
Diane R.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:54 PM
To: felvtalk
Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
 
In the middle of our chit-chat about politics and hunters and vegetarian diets, 
if someone had come in with the subject line: Cat Bitten by Cobra, we would 
have 
been off the chatty stuff in an instant and onto Google to look up what could 
be 
done for the cat while the caregiver was taking him to the vet emergency 
clinic.  So if we wander around the hospital isles occasionally when everyone 
is 
asleep and babble a bit, don't worry.  We can switch in a moment.  I actually 
did switch when I saw how agonized you were and posted about vets treating FeLv 
cats differently from non-FeLv cats to get us back on topic. But occasionally 
on 
every specialized list I have been on there is a subject with OT listed and 
then 
it's either a funny article copied from a magazine or other online source or 
some cute pictures of cats doing silly things, or even a heated political 
discussion about who will be President and how it would effect our ability to 
financially keep our heads above water and still feed our rescues and take our 
cats to the vet when needed.  It really does tie into the FeLv+ cat group 
because we are very money intensive in trying to keep our rescued special needs 
cats as healthy as can be for as long as can be.  If I lose my Social Security 
and Medicare benefits or they are reduced, I would have to cut down on food for 
myself  and air conditioning in the summer and heat in the winter to pay 

[Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos

[janine paton]

Can anyone explain to me why if from point of exposure to actually testing pos 
is 28 days, if this is correct, why we can't just retest in one month using 
Elisa?  And if all excepting the one testing weak pos, stjill test neg, is this 
good enough?  All 8 kittens and some of their moms tested neg, just the one a 
weak pos.  I am asking because I am trying to make this make sense to me and 
keep everyone safe.  And foster homes understanding. 

Thanks, 
Janine




From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Fri, October 5, 2012 8:52:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)


I agree, they have been very civil!  Natalie
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane 
Rosenfeldt
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:23 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
 
Thanks, Lee, I was about to say that I have never seen anyone not get responded 
to on this list in their time of need and emotional turmoil. Going offtopic is 
almost inevitable when you’re on a specialized list like this. I think the OT 
discussion has been amazingly civil and respectful. As it happens, I will be 
voting Democrat because I feel they are in touch with, and care about, the 
people that the Republicans have referred to as the 47% they’re not interested 
in reaching. My reasons have to do with the way the most vulnerable among us 
would be treated under each party. I feel people like most of us, who are sort 
of getting by or not quite getting by or getting by only because we get a 
pension or disability or whatever, need people in government who are interested 
in reaching us.
 
Diane R.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:54 PM
To: felvtalk
Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
 
In the middle of our chit-chat about politics and hunters and vegetarian diets, 
if someone had come in with the subject line: Cat Bitten by Cobra, we would 
have 
been off the chatty stuff in an instant and onto Google to look up what could 
be 
done for the cat while the caregiver was taking him to the vet emergency 
clinic.  So if we wander around the hospital isles occasionally when everyone 
is 
asleep and babble a bit, don't worry.  We can switch in a moment.  I actually 
did switch when I saw how agonized you were and posted about vets treating FeLv 
cats differently from non-FeLv cats to get us back on topic. But occasionally 
on 
every specialized list I have been on there is a subject with OT listed and 
then 
it's either a funny article copied from a magazine or other online source or 
some cute pictures of cats doing silly things, or even a heated political 
discussion about who will be President and how it would effect our ability to 
financially keep our heads above water and still feed our rescues and take our 
cats to the vet when needed.  It really does tie into the FeLv+ cat group 
because we are very money intensive in trying to keep our rescued special needs 
cats as healthy as can be for as long as can be.  If I lose my Social Security 
and Medicare benefits or they are reduced, I would have to cut down on food for 
myself  and air conditioning in the summer and heat in the winter to pay my 
mortgage on this house that I bought to keep my cats safe from being seized by 
Animal Control in a city where there are cat limits.  Even though I still work 
and have an online job, I would be in dire straits.  So it is very important to 
my cats who I vote for.  And since I live in a rural area, hunting becomes a 
problem for me also.  If the NRA controls the government, then my 3 outside 
cats 
and my peacock are in danger.  I actually hear gunshots sometimes in the 
daytime 
on weekends and it makes me tremble.
 
 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again/back to Leukemia list

[janine paton]

I am surprised this list got so off topic.  A few years ago, this wouldn't be 
allowed to happen.  I have very strong political opinions, and very strong 
opinions about hunting, but what I rejoined this list for was only to 
understand 
how to deal with 9 kittens from a few different litters in same colony, where 
one tested positive and I think I got one, maybe two answers.  

I guess it's OK to talk about other things, if a newcomer feels like he or she 
has been listened to, but I did not.  

For me, 9 kittens are a lot of kittens to worry about even with past LK 
experience.  So I don't really see how a total newcomer would have been helped 
by this list over the last week or two whatsoever.  

Leukemia is scary, and this list should be an opportunity to educate.  I don't 
feel comfortable sending people to this list if they are ignored.

  Would rather stick to common sense, out of the box, how to help and what to 
expect.It's shame to loose this resource.  My 2 cents. 

Janine 






From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Sat, October 6, 2012 7:30:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again


That’s what my vet gives me – Cyproheptadine (Periactin) – ¼ pill does a good 
job. 

 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 9:16 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again
 
Another brain cell woke up and reminded me that there's also an antihistamine 
called Ciproheptadine.  I'm thinking that this is the one they use as an 
appetite stimulant.

I just Googled it and sure enough, this is the one.  If you want more 
information on getting your cat to eat go to the following Website: Tanya's 
Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease.  The URL is: 
www.crf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm  There are some other hints on getting an 
anorexic cat to chow down also.


Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!
 



From:Edna Taylor 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again
 
I have been trying that, she eats just a smidge and then turns away :(  Thank 
you :)  Poor thing is just wasting away and I feel so helpless :(
 
> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 17:58:20 -0400
> From: ti...@mindspring.com
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Asking for advice again
> 
> You can try gerber stage2 baby food...the meat kind (ham, beef, turkey, etc). 
>Not all thw nutrition a cat needs but it gets them something. 
>
> 
> Christiane Biagi
> Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough

[janine paton]

Hello,
 
I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin.  Trying to find 
testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. 

I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had 
30 
kittens last year and none of them tested pos.  We just took 9 kittens within a 
few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered.  There were a few 
newcomers - mostly toms. 

All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out 
to 
lab.  Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each 
other's kittens.  

A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I understand 
is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this!  

My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that 
doesn't 
mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos.  My thinking is that 
more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not be 
positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? 

Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out the 
ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. 

Looking for guidance - 

Thank you, 
Janine




- Original Message 
From: "dlg...@windstream.net" 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Mon, October 1, 2012 6:15:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough

Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome.  Only 
Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside.  I keep hearing "they are only 
animals" as the excuse.  Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from 
monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them.  They are only animals arn't 
they?


 Natalie  wrote: 
> I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this
> is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and
> cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a
> cat is a deer?  Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on
> small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter,
> started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his
> farm..
> 
> Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all!
> 
> I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in
> hell ASPA!
> 
> Natalie
> 
>  
> 
> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
> 
> Friends,
> 
> We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either
> humans or animals.  Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to
> end lives.  Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering
> of a companion that is truly suffering (pet).   I am a Christian and believe
> in heaven and hell and Karma.  So, until we all die,  that person who puts
> their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin
> with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to
> life.  They will have to be judged  and only the Lord will have that talk
> with them at the end of their  life.  I live in Florida and just heard about
> a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back!   They
> are trying to find the person who did it.  Trust me, I am sure if it was a
> little child or adult,  the FBI would be involved.  But because it was a
> cat,  "they are doing their best". At the end of every day,  everything we
> do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends.  We can also
> voice our opinion to the government to change laws.   God  Bless America.
> Let's be positive here,  we are in America and have the opportunity to
> change anything in our power as a group.  Look in the Middle East,  killing
> everyday!   Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help
> out where you can. however,  you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up
> for the healthy animals that they put to sleep.  
> 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Singing to Cats

[janine paton]

Same here, I sing to my feral kittens and they seem to love it.  

"Trapped" one in a snowstorm who was very ill and kept moving away, but fell 
asleep when I sang to him.   When I got close, he'd wake and I'd stop, look 
away, start singing again when he relaxed and stoped looking at me.  Finally 
got 
close enough to sing, let him nod off, scruff, drop in trap.  I don't have a 
very good voice and could only remember Christmas songs at the time because I 
was so nervous for him, but it sure worked.  

Janine

   




- Original Message 
From: Diane Rosenfeldt 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 6:54:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Singing to Cats

The listmom of my feral-cats list (she is Wiccan) feels strongly that cats
love to be sung to, and to have their own special song. So y'all are on the
right track! She also says that cats love to be told their own story --
where they came from, how you met them, whatever. She feels that there is a
special kind of communication and they sort of understand on a cellular
level that the song or story is about them. I'm not as radical as that, but
I do occasionally try to tell one cat or another its story. Can't hurt! Oh,
and she tells people to explain things to cats and ask their permission,
forgiveness or whatever. This might be useful for those of us going through
hard times with our kitties -- assisted feeding, pilling etc. 

Diane R.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie Hogue
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 1:57 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Singing to Cats

So I'm not the only one who makes up little songs for the cats!
Each cat has its own song (some have several) -- a kind of "theme song". 
For some reason, I do this for every cat.  I wonder why we do this?
The songs are quite nice...or so the cat thinks!
ha!
~B.
- Original Message -
From: "Lorrie" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Singing to Cats


> On 12-26, Katy Doyle wrote:
>
>> This might sound silly, but I sing to my cats. Like when I'm taming
>> and socializing feral kittens... It seems to work and I have fun
>> :-)
>
> It's good to know I'm not the only one who makes up silly little
> songs to sing to my cats :-)
>
> Lorrie
>
>
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> 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Neutering males

[janine paton]

Last year we had a brother/sister feral pair just in, crated together and when 
spayed 2 wks later at 5 1/2 mos, the female was pregnant already with one 
kitten.  


We can't afford to spay.neuter every single litter we take on right away, but 
follow up like crazy with adoptions and our rule is spay/neuter at 5 mos.  They 
do heal faster at a younger age.  


See Winn Feline Foundation website for more information about this - it might 
dispel the myths of early spay/neuter, esp with boys.  


Human children seem to be more prone to early sexuality, why not cats? 

Janine




- Original Message 
From: Peggy Verdonck 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 6:00:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Neutering males

Wow, I went outside for a little bit to ride one of our horses.bunches
of new replies :-)

All our other cats were around 9 months old when spayed or neutered. I'm
from the Netherlands and there are not many vets that will do it earlier
then that. I've been reading and listening to the pros and cons to
early/late neutering and spaying, but there are just as many pros as cons in
either of them. I even lean towards early, because a kitten bounces back a
lot quicker then an older cat.
I've personally made up my mind that it is better to neuter young, but not
at like 3 weeks old or so. I don't think much can go wrong with a male. If a
vet messes that up, he needs to go back to school. With females I would wait
till older. It is a lot harder on them because they actually get opened up
and have all their female organs removed..
With my first question I was just wondering at what age most people have
their male kittens neutered. Didn't even think about the weight of the
kitten...makes a lot more sense!

Thanks for the all the replies!

2010/12/27 Susan Hoffman 

> Unfortunately that has been the experience of too many people.  Even with a
> contract and a spay/neuter deposit it does not happen.  Or it doesn't happen
> until after that little surprise litter from a 7 month old cat.  Early age
> spay/neuter goes a long way towards reducing pet overpopulation.  The areas
> that do very young spay/neuter amd have active feral cat programs have fewer
> kittens in shelters and higher adult cat adoptions.  So if you're going to
> adopt them out, fix them first.
>
> --- On Mon, 12/27/10, Natalie  wrote:
>
> > From: Natalie 
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Neutering males
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 1:14 PM
>  > I am a rescue group - but we don't
> > have any laws in CT to alter them before
> > adoptions.  Probably a great idea! I keep in personal
> > contact with adopters
> > and make absolutely sure that they spay/neuter at the
> > appropriate times.
> > But they found that even though people pay for the
> > spay/neuter at the time
> > of adoption, a huge percentage never come back to do
> > it...Whether they do it
> > on their own or not, isn't known.  More likely, they
> > don't, and that's why
> > such a problem continues.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> > On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman
> > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 3:45 PM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Neutering males
> >
> > It's different if you are a rescue who places animals for
> > adoption.  In
> > California it is illegal for a 501(c)(3) non-profit to
> > adopt out an
> > unaltered animal.  Also, we have so many vets in
> > Northern California who are
> > very experienced at early age spay/neuter.  It's the
> > standard here and the
> > kittens always seem to bounce back so quickly from their
> > surgery.
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/27/10, Natalie 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Natalie 
> > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Neutering males
> > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > > Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 10:49 AM
> > > I personally do NOT neuter/spay until
> > > much later and have never had a
> > > sprayer.my vet doesn't like doing it that early,
> > and
> > > believes that
> > > neutering males so early has some possible future
> > risks
> > > that are not yet
> > > known.
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> > > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika
> > > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 12:53 PM
> > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Neutering males
> > >
> > > We do ours at 6 months; our vet will not do them
> > before
> > > that, and from what
> > > I've read about the bad possible side effects of early
> > s/n
> > > in dogs I can't
> > > blame him.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Edna Taylor 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > My vet prefers for them to weigh 3-4 pounds
> > before
> > > surgery (usually 16
> > > > weeks)
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 11:33:58 -0500
> > > > > From: athenapities...@gm

Re: [Felvtalk] Insight Please

[janine paton]

Definitely pos mom gave birth in trap to 5 kittens.  2 survived, one pos, one 
neg tested over and over.  Adopted, both retested negative down the road.   No 
explanation either but it must be possible.  What I don't understand is a 
kitten 
testing neg while the virus is latent, then breaking with it years later - is 
this something that really happens and there is need  to worry about? 


Thanks, 
Janine



- Original Message 
From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Sat, December 11, 2010 9:05:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Insight Please

That's what happened to a rescuer friend - I was in Mexico at the time and
couldn't post to the group myself - another member kindly posted for me.
However, my friend heard back from only one person.  Mother cat with 6
kittens; mother and 2 kittens negative, 4 kittens borderline positive.  The
veterinarians are vexed; I thought that since many of you had experienced or
heard of quite a few false positives with certain tests lately, there might
have been an answer. My assumption would be that the were exposed to another
FeLV cat. Natalie

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marnie
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 12:53 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Insight Please

My shelter just took in a litter of 5 kittens. They are about 8 weeks old.
The 3 females tested possible for feline leukemia with the Idexx snap test
and the 2 males were negative. We retested from another batch of tests and
the same thing. How is this possible if they are all from the same mother?
Can anyone shed some light on this please? 
Marnie

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Re: [Felvtalk] I killed my kitten last night...

[janine paton]

Kim, it's a horrifying experience to go through.  You are right, Laura, so many 
of us do have the same story and it just happened here - a mild URI, a sudden 
difficulty in breathing, emergency vet visit, then gone a few hrs later, but 
unlike your kitty, by himself with his brother as a witness.At 4 months, 
this was NOT normal.  

Kim, you were fighting something you couldn't see.  But try to look at this in 
a 
different way - you loved her and you gave her your best because you loved her. 
 
I'm not sure sub-q'ing fluids when a kitten is struggling to breathe is the 
safest thing to do anyway, so maybe it was just time for her to pass.  So Kim, 
she is lucky she left while you were holding her, no matter what position.  You 
didn't kill her, whatever was ailing her killed her -  you were trying to help 
her. 

Janine







From: LauraM 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 6:43:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] I killed my kitten last night...

Oh, Kim, I have been through this so many times and so many times I've said "I 
killed my cat/tortoise/lizard/snake/whatever." You did not kill her. You did 
the 
best you could at the time with the information you had, and I am so sorry that 
you feel this way. It's normal to blame oneself but hindsight is 20/20; a 
cliche, I know, but so true.
On St Patrick's Day my FeLV+ cat, Bridget, died at the vet. She was there to be 
spayed but never made it to the table - they put her under and she died. 
Horrible. But what was even more horrible was that I had a premonition that she 
would die during surgery, for weeks. A voice literally screamed in my head. 
DON'T DO IT, SHE WILL DIE. And yet I did it, and got that awful phone call from 
the vet. That night I posted on this forum - "it's my fault, I killed her." I 
was so grateful for the assurances from other members that no, I didn't kill 
her.I tried my best and something happened. I am sure that many other folks 
will have a similar story. 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

[janine paton]

Hey Laura, 

Your subject line really caught me - I've recently lost a cat named Bridget and 
she was the best, smartest cat.  Bridget is a wonderful  name and thank god she 
had one.  I don't know what LTCI is and am hoping someone explains it.  

I relocated a feral cat named Molly to my yard and for years, she did really 
well, never leaving.  She loved to hang out with us on our deck.  Then she 
found a friend, followed him, got hit by car.  Her beautiful face was smashed 
and there was no doubt she died instantly, but still, I had to have a vet 
listen for her heart hours later, to be sure, even  tho it was so obvious she 
was gone.  Looking back, I think my asking for vet to listen for heart beat was 
shock and disbelief on my part  We all blame ourselves at first when something 
so unexpected happens, it must be human nature.   
It's terribly stressful for these cats to go into heat over and over (I think 
more than twice a year) and the possibility of an infected uterus or mammary 
cancer is very real, I know, I've seen enough of it.  I hope you realize sooner 
than later you were doing what was right for Bridget, and keep on helping 
others.  

The very best to you, 

Janine   




From: Sharyl 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 9:41:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

Laura, I am so sorry to read about Bridget.  We do the best we can with the 
knowledge we have.  Normally it is best to have any kitty spayed/neutered.  
Unfortunately there is always a risk with anesthesia.  
My heart goes out to you.
Sharyl

> --- On Wed, 3/17/10, LauraM 
> wrote:
> 
> From: LauraM 
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 4:45 PM
> 
> Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she
> died very quickly
> under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done
> anything for her and
> now she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with
> Frosty Paws and then
> Baby Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so
> well. Could it have
> been the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for
> killing her.
> Please, if anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had
> something to do with
> it, maybe made her more sensitive to being put under,
> please let me know, I
> have to know whether I killed my cat.
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>   
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Re: [Felvtalk] Peta Kills Animals

[janine paton]

No Kill Advocacy Center 

Read above link, by Nathan Winograd.  His website has plenty of information 
about Peta, etc.  The reason this is so close to my heart, is this - there is a 
woman in my hometown who  has been trapping and killing feral cats for 35 
years.  

We live in a pretty good sized city, we are the only active TNR group here, and 
she gets away with it.  She is aligned with Peta.  

It's not just about Leukemia cats, it's about all cats.  Your leukemia cats are 
worth saving, so are the homeless cats.  I think they are one and the same.  

Janine
 







From: Tower Laboratories Corporation 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 3:38:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Peta Kills Animals

Well said, Diane.  

Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director
Tower Laboratories Corporation
Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart
Disease Since 1996
http://www.HeartTech.com
E-mail:  sa...@towerlaboratories.com
Toll Free:  1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) 
Voice:  502.368.2720; 502.368.2721
Fax:  502.368.0019

Pauling Therapy Information Web site:
http://www.HeartTech.com 
Pauling Therapy Order Link:
http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com

The products manufactured by Tower Laboratories Corporation,
Inc. are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent
disease in the United States. Without prejudice to the
generality of the contents herein, this message is not meant
nor intended to diagnose, treat, or otherwise mitigate any
health related condition.  This message does not attach any
legal liability onto the originator thereof.  This
communication may also contain information which is
confidential, and therefore privileged.  It is for the
exclusive use of the intended recipient(s).  If you have
received this message by error, please delete the email and
destroy any copies of it.

> -Original Message-
> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-
> boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:50 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Peta Kills Animals
> 
> Me neither. I believe their goal is that animals should
not be
> subjected to
> the "tyranny" of human ownership, even though Fluffy and
Fido
> are no more
> capable of surviving "running free" than a goldfish (and
when
> they do,
> usually have about the same lifespan as one). PETA needs
to go
> back about a
> few million years in the evolutionary process and talk to
the
> cavemen and
> wolves who buddied up in the first place.
> 
> I'm not saying that all their causes are bogus -- circuses
are
> cruel, the
> way we get our meat is unnecessarily brutal, and people
should
> be concerned
> about those animals too. But yes, they are deeply
hypocritical in
> their
> treatment of animals that have not "run free" since Man
first
> picked up a
> stick and threw it. They have lost sight of what animal
welfare
> and animal
> rights really mean.
> 
> Diane R.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> Debbie Bates
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:31 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Peta Kills Animals
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, this does not come as any surprise to
me
> 
> Debbie
> "Sometimes you have to look reality in the eye and deny
it"
> (Garrison
> Keillor)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: ssjew...@bellsouth.net
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:24:09 -0500
> > Subject: [Felvtalk] Peta Kills Animals
> >
> >

> > --
> >
> > PETA Killed 95 Percent of Adoptable Pets in its Care
During
> > 2008
> >
> >

> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a rather disturbing story forwarded to me by a
vet.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hypocritical Animal Rights Group's 2008 Disclosures
Bring
> > Pet Death Toll To 21,339
> >
> >
> >
> > WASHINGTON DC - Today the nonprofit Center for Consumer
> > Freedom (CCF) published documents online showing that
> People
> > for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) killed 95
> > percent of the adoptable pets in its care during 2008.
> > Despite years of public outrage over its euthanasia
program,
> > the animal rights group kills an average of 5.8 pets
every
> > day at its Norfolk, VA headquarters.
> >
> >
> >
> > According to public records from the Virginia Department
of
> > Agriculture and Consumer Services, PETA killed 2,124
pets
> > last year and placed only seven in adoptive homes. Since
> > 1998, a total of 21,339 dogs and cats have died at the
hands
> > of PETA workers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Despite having a $32 million budget, PETA does not
operate
> > an adoption shelter. PETA employees make no discernible
> > effort to find homes for the thousands of pets they kill
> > every year. Last year, the Center for Consumer

Re: [Felvtalk] stomatitis

[janine paton]

Took in an FIV cat with very bad stomatitis.  I'd never seen a huge, emaciated 
cat try to eat but run backwards growling and screaming and pawing at his face, 
and boy, was I afraid of him!  Vet pulled teeth, was reluctant at first to use 
steroid because of FIV status but after a month, very bad flare-up so vet 
wanted to try steroid.  I found an excellent homeopath instead and Kohl did 
very well for 2 years with this (rather intensive treatment) and a raw diet.  
He was actually physically and mentally excellent until we noticed a swelling 
that was dx as an oral cancer, but even his ending was helped with the 
homeopathy and he did well until the few days before we opted to have him 
eithanized.  

Janine





From: Gloria B. Lane 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Sun, December 13, 2009 5:22:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] stomatitis

I'll have to think - for Stomatitis/gingivitis, I've used
1) pulling the teeth (seems to work well)
2) Oral dexamethasone (some folks have good luck with that - made my kitty 
cough a little but helped somewhat)
3) Monthly Demo (steroid) shot - nice but if it gets too frequent, kitty comes 
down with other things
4) Convenia antibiotic shot, followed by oral Axithromycin as needed (worked 
pretty well)

There's another oral med that I've tried but can't remember the name right now, 
have to look it up.  It was pretty good.  I'm sure there are some other 
options.  As I understand, Stomatitis can be called by several different 
things...

Best of luck,

Gloria



On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:54 PM, lernermiche...@aol.com wrote:

> Hi. I'm fostering an FIV+ cat right now who has pretty bad stomatitis. We had 
> his teeth cleaned and 6 of them removed, and after a few weeks of antibiotics 
> post-dental surgery he was doing much much better-- eating a lot more, gained 
> 3 pounds in 3 weeks, not seeming to have any mouth pain and the redness was 
> all gone. We stopped the antibiotics (which had been clindamycin then 
> switched to clavamox) and he remained ok for  a few days. He then went to a 
> potential adoptive home with another FIV+ cat. A week later she called for us 
> to get him back, largely because his mouth got really bad again. He is back 
> on Clavamox, and has been for a few days, but is growling when he eats and 
> can only eat wet food that we break up into very small pieces. His gums are 
> very inflamed again. I had 6 FeLV+ cats, but was lucky that none had 
> stomatitis like this. For those of you whose cats have it or had it, what do 
> you recommend?
> 
> thanks,
> Michelle
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Re: [Felvtalk] OT:help w/post traumatic stress in cat?

[janine paton]

Jeepers.  I'm so sorry for this cat!  I have a FIV+ named Whitey who'd been hit 
by a car a few winters ago.  Disappeared for a week, feeders thought he was 
dead.  Long story short, he now lives in my bedroom (only because he doesn't 
play nice with others) but oh boy, does he love us.  Broken jaw and paralysis 
on one side of his face.  Can not open his mouth more than a quarter of an 
inch.  He is physically a little akward, too.  For two years at least, he 
startled awake out of a sound sleep when hearing a loud car or truck.  NOT 
jumping as high as your kitty, and he doesn't have beebees in him, but now he 
is starting to relax more, and sleep through loud motor noises.  

There's a drug called cyproheptadine (maybe used for allergies?) we use 
sometimes to relax just a little, maybe at night would be a good time.   Also 
increases appetite, sort of useful for cancer patients.  Also, Bach flower 
rememdies come in more than rescue rememdy, although rescue rememdy might do 
it.If you go to a health food store, or online, you can pick out a few to 
use in his water that may fit his issues.   

Janine







From: Susan Hoffman 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; Mari ; 
tlstick...@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 11:50:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] OT:help w/post traumatic stress in cat?

If the pheremones don't work then talk to your vet about antianxiety meds, 
either prozac or elavil, at least for awhile till he begins to get over 
whatever is in his past. (I had one cat on prozac for years.  It made all the 
difference in the world.)

--- On Mon, 12/7/09, Barb Moermond  wrote:

> From: Barb Moermond 
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] OT:help w/post traumatic stress in cat?
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org, "Mari" , 
> tlstick...@yahoo.com
> Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 8:42 AM
> Tamara,
> I'm forwarding this individually to Mari as I know she has
> experience with this.  She's on the list, but I think
> on digest and I want to make sure she sees this.
>  Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
> 
> 
> "My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should
> impress.  Merely living his life, doing what pleases
> him, and making me smile." 
> - Anonymous
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: tamara stickler 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 10:37:33 AM
> Subject: [Felvtalk] OT:help w/post traumatic stress in
> cat?
> 
> Hello all,
>  
> This is off-topic, and for that I apologize, but I figured
> with all the cat care-giving/rescuing experience of the
> people on this list, perhaps someone would have an answer
> for me.
>  
> I took in stray tabby about 3 years ago.  Had him
> neutered and vetted.  He had/has many issues including
> being prone to kidney crystals and infections -which I think
> we have under control at the moment w/ cranberry powder
> additive to his food.  He used to be very aggressive
> towards other cats (something for which my other cat still
> hasn't completely forgiven him for) and he truly believes
> himself to be a dog.  He has no fear at ALL of people,
> cats or canines, -fetches toys, heels, comes when called and
> will go into his crate if you just mention it...(something
> even my DOG REFUSES to do!).  But..there is one major
> obstacle to completely incorporating him into the household:
> he has night terrors.
>  
> Because of his past aggression, he's separated in his own
> room whenever I'm not home & at night, but I have been
> trying to get to the point where he can be allowed to sleep
> with us.  Unfortunately, he has incredible nightmares
> where he BOLTS INTO THE AIR (we're talking sometimes 2-3
> feet HIGH) from a dead sleep and FLEES until he hits
> something - usually a wall or piece of furniture- hard
> enough to wake him up.  Then he sits all hunched up and
> blinking for a few minutes.  If I go to him he
> immediately starts to purr and rolls over for a belly rub -
> only after head-butting me a few dozen times.
>  
> I've had him to the vet thinking he was having painful
> spasms or something.  All she could find were old
> injuries that looked like a car accident may have hit him in
> the hip area (all healed - he moves fine) and what appear to
> be 3 bebes still lodged in the back of his neck and shoulder
> area.  She doesn't think they would be the cause of
> pain now...but both injuries tell something of the first
> year or two of his life.
>  
> I've tried feline pheromones ...he still has the
> episodes.  
>  
> As much as I hate putting him in a room by himself at
> night, while the cat and dog and I share a bedwhen he
> freaks out at night- it sets off a chain reaction of the
> other cat going all hissy-spazzy and the dog barking and
> chasing one or both around the condo until he fully wakes up
> and calms down (I'm surprised my neighbors haven't
> complained yet!).  (Not to mentionI've gotten
> kicked in the eye and face time and again as one or more of
> 

Re: [Felvtalk] I Hate PETA

[janine paton]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think maybe PETA killed these cats 
regardless of their test results.  In other words, is it possible the cats 
didn't test positive for anything but "feral", so was an excuse to kill them?  
Sharyl, I am so very sorry.  

Janine 







From: Diane Rosenfeldt 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 7:51:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] I Hate PETA

Oh, Sharyl! This is just so sad and pointless. But a really hard learning
experience, I guess, about PETA's practices. I know Butterball and Smoky Jo
know you were trying to help them. Gentle Bridge vibes to both of them, and
solace to you. I'm grieving with you.

Diane R. 



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Re: [Felvtalk] advice on kitty's loose tooth

[janine paton]

Had this recently with one of mine.  Her canine tooth was sticking straight out 
also, it looked horrible, but took her to vet, person who does dentals there 
easily removed the tooth.  Came right out in one second, by had, no big deal! 





From: Laurieskatz 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 5:47:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] advice on kitty's loose tooth

I would get her to a vet as soon as possible to make sure there isn't an
infection
Abscessed teeth can be a serious issue.
L

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Tracey Shrout
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:44 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] advice on kitty's loose tooth

Hi all,
I have a positive who has a loose lower canine tooth.  I have never had this
problem in a cat.  She is very clumsy (one bad eye) and I think she has
possibly just ran into something.  Anyway, her tooth is now sticking
straight out.  I worry that it may be getting infected, or that it may
become infected when it falls out.  This is the fifth day, and it still
hasn't fallen out.  She's acting normal and eats fine as well.  Is this
something I should be terribly concerned about or has anyone had this happen
to your kitty???  Thanks for any advice,
Tracey
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[Felvtalk] question on adopting neg kitten to family with positive cat

[janine paton]

Hello everyone, 

I joined this list some years ago because as a rescuer, I wanted information on 
how best to deal with leukemia colonies we were running into.  My organization 
also does adoptions.  We have a family interested in one of our kittens as a 
companion to a 5 yr old positive cat.  Their cat tested positive for leukemia 
as a kitten and their vet recommended euthanizing - they declined and the cat 
is now a healthy adult, and still testing positive.  

The kitten they are interested in is under 3 mos and was the runt of the 
litter.  One concern I have is the number of vaccines plus neutering a cat that 
age has to go through already in a relatively short period of time - then add 
in the leukemia vaccine on top of that.  And is the vaccine good enough 
protection for a kitten, should a kitten even get that vaccine? 

Any thoughts on this, or if you do adoptions, how would you handle it?  I'm 
hesitating suggesting they look for another positive youngster only because the 
family has young children.  We have plenty of kittens of all ages, and young 
adults - does this matter? 

Thanks for any thoughts - it's a very nice family with a great reference from 
their vet.  

Janine
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Re: [Felvtalk] Kitten chronic loose stool

[janine paton]

That's an EXCELLENT website.  Nothing straightens out cats and kittens like the 
recipe from catinfo.org.  CRF, LK, cancer, symptomatic FIV, healthy cats, you 
name it, we've had cats on this diet with tremendous success and never once a 
bad result.  You just have to treat the raw meat with respect.And nothing 
beats the entertainment of watching a kitten eat it.  The growling, the sheer 
delight - very funny! 


--- On Sat, 11/1/08, Laurieskatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Laurieskatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Kitten chronic loose stool
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 10:02 PM
> Tracey thanks for this post. I bought everything, using the
> recipe and
> resources on catinfo.org, during the food scare. I never
> got the courage to
> make the foodmaybe I will at some point. Soon, I hope.
> Laurie
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Tracey
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:25 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Kitten chronic loose stool
> >>A few months ago I found a kitten (Abbey) who was
> near death who tested +.
> 
> She had uncontrollable diarrhea, I mean it was everywhere
> and 
> I have 3 other cats, all -'s and I have fed them a
> homemade raw chicken 
> and bones diet for the last 9 months. I started feeding her
> the raw diet.
> It was 
> amazing!  Within a week it was solid as can be, and she is
> really the
> picture of health.
> I took me a long time to make the decision to make my
> own food and it 
> also took a while to get them switched over to this new
> diet, but it was
> well worth the effort!  They are so healthy!  Their coats
> are extremely
> shiny and softer, their temperaments are better, they are
> much more active
> (playing
> more than they ever did), and my 16 lb 'fat cat'
> has lost a little weight. 
> I just couldn't believe it.
> 
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] I think my girl kitty is pregnant...will the kittens be FeLV+??

[janine paton]

Hi, I am not so active on this list because I am
primarily doing rescue with only occassional
positives.  But, I have to say I would spay this cat
so fast, pregnant or not.  There are way too many
kittens being born outside this year - back to back
pregnancies it seems.  And you don't need your girl to
have problems giving birth either. 

Janine, from CT, overwhelmed with kittens! 


--- Laura B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Jennifer,
>  
> Even if FeLV were not a factor in this possible
> pregnancy I would suggest a spay-abort. The kitten
> season has been particulary bad this summer in
> Jersey (and probably elsewhere) so if you can't keep
> them they would have a VERY bleak future.  I live in
> central Jersey and if you're not too far from Toms
> River (don't know how far south you are) you can
> take her to a clinic there that does low cost S/N. 
> We take all the ferals we can TNR there, and they
> have no problem doing spay-aborts.  
>  
> You actually have to go through ABC (Animal Birth
> Control) which is a group based in Bayville (I
> believe) NJ, they will give you a voucher or number
> that will entitle you to a low cost S/N.  If you
> would like I can get the information for you, my
> neighbor has it since she does TNR daily this time
> of year.  I help out financially when I can since I
> work during the day (she doesn't work, cept for
> sterilizing cat colonies for people).
>  
> Laura
> 
> --- On Mon, 8/11/08, Jennifer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> From: Jennifer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Felvtalk] I think my girl kitty is
> pregnant...will the kittens be FeLV+??
> To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"
> 
> Date: Monday, August 11, 2008, 8:47 PM
> 
> and the only possible father is my FeLV+ kitty,
> Ash.  Isobel is showing signs
> of pregnancy (hard and protruding tummy as well as
> pointy nipples).  She's
> going this Thursday to get tested for FeLV.  My
> question is, if she tests
> negative (which my guess is she won't being that her
> and Ash mated), will
> the kittens be FeLV+ because their father is FeLV+? 
> Also, if Isobel is
> pregnant and she is FeLV+, does that automatically
> mean the kittens will be
> too?  I feel so horrible about not getting her fixed
> sooner, but my money is
> tight and I have to save up just to take them to the
> vet.  If she is pregnant,
> I can't keep the kittens as we already have three
> and my boyfriend is
> allergic and says no way to any more cats in the
> house, which I understand.  If
> I take them to a shelter and they're positive, won't
> they put them to
> sleep right away?  I don't want that to happen.  I
> live in Southern New
> Jersey...anyone want more kittens??  When I take her
> to the
>  vet this week, I'll have them confirm her
> pregnancy.
> 
>  Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN & LOCAL SPCA
> VOLUNTEER.  Be their voice. 
>         ~ loving mama to ~
>             Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000)
>             Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007)
>             Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+
> July 28, 2008)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
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> 
> 
> 
>   
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> 


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Re: re spaying my kitten

[janine paton]

Hopefully I'm not repeating something here, but we've
had 2 young females (both approx 8 mos) in 2 different
feral colonies recently with pyometra.  One was
obviously ill and close to death.  The other was just
dumb luck -   trapped her expecting a routine spay and
was very surprised to find out.  Both cats survived. 
But that's another reason to tip the spay or not
scale.   

Janine


--- Sharyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think Tonya meant to say that spaying decreases
> the risk of cancer.  I'm about to have my 2 FeLV+
> females spayed per the vets recommendation.  One has
> already gone into heat.  Her appetite was affected 
> and she seemed pretty stressed out.  There is a risk
> to any surgery.  You just have to make the best
> decision you can with your vet's help.
>   Sharyl Sissy and Rocket
> 
> catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would spay.  I think your vet would tell you
> if there were any problem and would persuade you not
> to spay.  Spaying dramatically increases your cat's
> risk of cancer.  The stress of going into heat is
> also bad for a positive cat.  I have had both my
> positive cats spayed.
>
>   tonya
> 
> Lynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Kathy, personally, unless she has had
> bloodwork showing she is the healthiest positive cat
> on the planet, I would not do it.  I was told that
> the stress of wanting to breed is harder on a cat
> than the stress of undergoing neutering but if I had
> to do it again, I would never have had my positive
> male neutered.  Although he was pretty far advanced
> leukemia wise, I truly believe his neutering caused
> him many additional problems that hastened his
> death.  As we know, spaying is a much bigger
> procedure than neutering.  If she is going to be an
> indoor cat only and you are willing to go through
> heats I would not do it.  Just my take on things.  I
> now have a 3 year old female who has Feline Herpes
> Virus, inactive at the moment, and I've only had her
> for a week.  I am not even going to think about
> spaying for at least a month.  I want her to be in
> excellent health, stress free etc before I'll even
> consider it.
>
>   Lynne
> - Original Message - 
>   From: Kathy Dillard 
>   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:18 AM
>   Subject: re spaying my kitten
>   
> 
> My female kitten Foxy is about 8 1/2 months old. She
> has tested positive for feline leukemia and is
> currently on a daily dose of interferon. My vet has
> recommended having her spayed . Please advise and
> discuss pros and cons. I feel very anxious and
> scared about having this procedure done but want to
> do the right thing for Foxy.
> 
>   kathy
> 
> -
>   Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> 
> 
> 
>
> -
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one
> month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

Re: CLS- Possum

[janine paton]

Caroline, I love possums and I love that name!  Please
don't feel guilty.  Whatever time Possum had here, the
two of you made it better for each other.And
you've given me the inspiration I've needed to keep
focused on rescue, (burnt out!) so you and Possum have
had a ripple effect that will help a few more sweet
and gentle souls.  

Oddly enough, I have been after a grey and white male
with a hurt foot and sore mouth, and just took in a
grey and white youngster who flung himself into
traffic trying to get away from a cord wrapped around
his neck.  I think Possum is a great name and if you
don't mind, I might borrow it.


--- Sherry DeHaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Caroline,I am sorry to hear of your sweet Possee
> leaving you.He was lucky to have you.Hugs to you.
>   Sherry
> Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>   .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  } 
> body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt; 
> FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }Can you add my foster
> kitten Possum (aka "Possee") to the CLS?  He was not
> an FELV cat, but possibly FIP.  
>  
> He was a struggling, failing to thrive white w/ grey
> kitten (who indeed looked like a Possum), who had a
> rough start in life and I took him in to give him
> TLC and see what I could do for him.  Unfortunately,
> I was unable to get him the vet care he
> needed/deserved due to approval problems with the
> adoption group he belonged to/I volunteered for and
> I will forever regret that and feel guilty.  But I
> know I gave him a wonderful few months that he
> wouldn't have had if I hadn't taken him in: he was
> kept warm, freed from the pet store condos, got the
> royalest treatment of all my fosters b/c I never
> made him stay in the condo-he had free reign of my
> two bedrooms, he slept on the bed with me curled in
> my arms or on my chest or shoulder every night and
> we had love-fest sessions every morning, with him
> purring away, he got the highest quality food and
> supplements, holistic vet treatments, and a little
> kitty heating pad that became his all time favorite
> thing.  Sadly though, for
>  whatever reason, whether it be FIP, a congenital
> heart defect, or both, his little body couldn't keep
> up with his mind and desire to live and he crashed
> without warning (besides a swollen belly) on me in
> the early morning hours of Sunday and I rushed him
> to the emergency vet clinic to end his suffering. 
> He was a wonderfully sweet little boy and although
> he was more an old-man cat then the 7 mo kitten he
> was supposed to be, I loved him for who and what he
> was and I will miss him dearly, especially because
> he became my sleeper-bud and I haven't had one since
> Monkee left me in July.  
>  
> He was my first cat/foster kitten to die since
> Monkee and that makes it even more heartbreaking for
> me b/c the Monkee loss is still so fresh.  I also
> wonder why they keep crashing on me on Sundays?!  
>  
> Thank you,
> Caroline K.   
> 
>   
> -
>   Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word
> scramble challenge with star power. Play now! 
> 
>
> -
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them
> fast with Yahoo! Search.

RE: PARTIAL SUCCESS! Advice on trapping...night v day trapping

[janine paton]

That's fine!  If she gets trapped, she can be brought
inside until the morning.  If covered completely with
a sheet, and put somewhere quiet without people
looking at her, she will be fine until morning.  

My concern is leaving a trap set and not attended
overnight.  2 reasons why not to do this - another
animal, cat or otherwise, may walk into the trap.  Not
only is this animal traumitized for no reason, but
what if your cat is watching?  She's not too likely to
want to step into that trap after watching and hearing
a panicked animal.  2nd reason is if you get the cat
you want, she may react very badly to being in a trap
all night, outside, where she knows she is very
vulnerable.  

I used to hate trapping at night and holding til the
morning, but when it's all over, they are so much
better off, and an overnight stay in a covred trap is
just a blip in a hopefully long, healty, happy life.  
--- Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Well the problem is that primary feeding time is
> early evening just as it
> gets dark.  If she gets trapped after dark, I know
> my parents won't be able
> to drive her to e-vet until the morning.  She is in
> a safe place where the
> trap is set but he could also bring her inside to
> the bathroom if need be.
> It's a difficult situation for them and I wish there
> was someone available
> to take her to vet at night but couldn't find
> anyone
> 
> Christiane Biagi
> 914-632-4672
> Cell:  914-720-6888
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
> Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)
> www.findkpets.org
>  
> Join Us & Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families
> with their Animals
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of janine paton
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:21 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: RE: PARTIAL SUCCESS! Advice on
> trapping...night v day trapping
> 
> Good source of information is yahoo groups -
> Feral_cats.  
> 
> For hard-to-trap cats, I bungee cord the trap open
> to
> get them used to the concept.  It's just a little
> patience and most importantly, calmness.  Act as if
> the bungeed-open trap is nothing more than a big
> dish
> to put food in.  
> 
> I didn't read all of the emails, but don't leave a
> set
> trap unattended.  Get the cat on a schedule, feed
> her
> in a trap not really set, and when she relaxes and
> goes all the way in, make the app't and set the trap
> for real, staying around the corner with eyes and
> ears
> open so she can be covered up completely with a
> sheet
> and either brought straight to a vet, or brought
> inside somewhere safe, again covered up,  until the
> next morning.  
> 
>   
> --- Christiane Biagi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I had to come back to NY today but my father is
> > continuing to try to trap.
> > She does come when he calls and follows him
> > around-BUT she still won't go in
> > the trap.  We rigged the trap so it won't spring &
> > put some inside near the
> > entrance-she did eat some of that.  He wants to
> try
> > that for a couple of
> > days before setting the trap again. keep fingers
> > crossed..
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of laurieskatz
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:10 PM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: PARTIAL SUCCESS! Advice on
> > trapping...night v day trapping
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Chris, I am assuming no luck>?
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > 
> > From: Chris <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > 
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > 
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:18 AM
> > 
> > Subject: PARTIAL SUCCESS! Advice on
> trapping...night
> > v day trapping
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Last night mom and kitty were waiting and followed
> > my dad to our door to get
> > food.  I know they were hungry!  I managed to trap
> > the little Munchkin who
> > turns out is a girl.  I got her to an e-vet at 10
> PM
> > and they tested her and
> > put her in the big dog kennel for me.  She's now
> > sitting there sort of
> > looking at all of us.  Of course she's lying in
> the
> > litter box.  I think she
> > ate a little of the food but basically she's just
> > scared.  I put her up high
> > as she knows my father and he can't crawl around
> on
> > the floor to talk to
> > her.  I should be bringing her to shelter later
> > to

RE: PARTIAL SUCCESS! Advice on trapping...night v day trapping

[janine paton]

Good source of information is yahoo groups -
Feral_cats.  

For hard-to-trap cats, I bungee cord the trap open to
get them used to the concept.  It's just a little
patience and most importantly, calmness.  Act as if
the bungeed-open trap is nothing more than a big dish
to put food in.  

I didn't read all of the emails, but don't leave a set
trap unattended.  Get the cat on a schedule, feed her
in a trap not really set, and when she relaxes and
goes all the way in, make the app't and set the trap
for real, staying around the corner with eyes and ears
open so she can be covered up completely with a sheet
and either brought straight to a vet, or brought
inside somewhere safe, again covered up,  until the
next morning.  

  
--- Christiane Biagi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I had to come back to NY today but my father is
> continuing to try to trap.
> She does come when he calls and follows him
> around-BUT she still won't go in
> the trap.  We rigged the trap so it won't spring &
> put some inside near the
> entrance-she did eat some of that.  He wants to try
> that for a couple of
> days before setting the trap again. keep fingers
> crossed..
> 
>  
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of laurieskatz
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:10 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: PARTIAL SUCCESS! Advice on
> trapping...night v day trapping
> 
>  
> 
> Chris, I am assuming no luck>?
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: Chris  
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:18 AM
> 
> Subject: PARTIAL SUCCESS! Advice on trapping...night
> v day trapping
> 
>  
> 
> Last night mom and kitty were waiting and followed
> my dad to our door to get
> food.  I know they were hungry!  I managed to trap
> the little Munchkin who
> turns out is a girl.  I got her to an e-vet at 10 PM
> and they tested her and
> put her in the big dog kennel for me.  She's now
> sitting there sort of
> looking at all of us.  Of course she's lying in the
> litter box.  I think she
> ate a little of the food but basically she's just
> scared.  I put her up high
> as she knows my father and he can't crawl around on
> the floor to talk to
> her.  I should be bringing her to shelter later
> today.
> 
>  
> 
> I reset the trap for mom-oh how I hope she isn't too
> spooked to go in there.
> I put in some heated dark tuna and smeared a little
> on the newspaper I lined
> the bottom of the trap with.  I know she's hungry. 
> She's been known to
> catch birds but she's not really good at it.  So now
> I wait.  
> 
>  
> 
> Munchkin the little one, tested neg for FELV/FIV so
> I'm hoping that's a good
> sign for mom.  I hate it so that shelter required
> this-its just sooo
> unnecessary!  
> 
>  
> 
> Many thanks for all the helpful advice.  It really
> gave me some courage to
> keep trying. I just felt so over my head on this.I
> will keep you posted.
> 
>  
> 
> Christiane Biagi
> 
> 914-632-4672
> 
> Cell:  914-720-6888
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of laurieskatz
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:14 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: Advice on trapping...night v day
> trapping
> 
>  
> 
> Trap with water and canned food in the trap. They
> will be fine overnight.
> Cover with a towel and place the trap in a quiet,
> dark, safe INSIDE place
> until you can get to vet. Most important thing is to
> keep them safe until
> they can get to vet. Trying to transfer is not safe.
> I always took the
> trapped cat directly to the vet in the trap (covered
> and placed in plastic
> in my vehicle).
> 
> I always trapped in the AM so I could get them right
> to the vet. That's
> better, if you can do that, depending on your
> schedule and theirs. I set 2
> traps at once and that sped things up.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> L
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: Chris  
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 6:43 PM
> 
> Subject: RE: Advice on trapping...
> 
>  
> 
> Is there any 'trick' to transferring from trap to
> large dog kennel?  If for
> example, I trapped one tonight, I'd have to keep her
> overnight before I
> could go anywhere and I don't want to leave the cat
> in the trap all night
> with no food, water or litter box..
> 
>  
> 
> Christiane Biagi
> 
> 914-632-4672
> 
> Cell:  914-720-6888
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)
> 
> www.findkpets.org
> 
>  
> 
> Join Us & Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families
> with their Animals
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Kelley Saveika
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:37 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: Advice on trapping...
> 
>  
> 
> This is some good trapping advice.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/32zpor
> 
> Also try Alley Cat Allies.
> 
> On Jan 8, 2008 6:13 PM

Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...Crash Landing

[janine paton]

Ah, but only a cat would have to choose between
amputaion or death.  

I see no difference with this logic and killing cats
who test positive.  

Catsinternational.org (also based in the midwest) has
thankfully updated their page on declawing.  They are
calling for people to name  declawing what it is -
amputation.  They guarantee 100%  they can help you
teach your cat not to scratch inappropriately.  It's
called education.  

I have to say when I went to that petfinder link, I
felt like I was on another planet.  

Only a cat would have to choose between amputation and
death. Only in America. 

Janine



--- Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm not really sure I buy the theory that declawed
> cats are more
> likely to have behavioral problems.  I've seen a lot
> of cats, both
> clawed and declawed, and behavioral problems seem to
> be about the same
> in both groups.  We currently have a 12.5 year old
> declawed cat who is
> probably the sweetest cat ever.  Similarly we have
> fully clawed cats
> who have had terrible behavioral problems.  It just
> seems to be pretty
> random to me.
> 
> Nationally, about 25% of cats are declawed.  I'd be
> interested to see
> the studies that purport that they are turned in to
> shelters in
> disproportionate numbers.  If this is the case, it
> doesn't seem to be
> the case locally.   Also if they are turned in to
> shelters in
> disproportionate numbers, I'd like to know if the
> clawed cats are just
> turned loose somewhere, as opposed to being turned
> in to a shelter.
> 
> I did speak to my vet about it and he says there is
> no hard evidence
> of any correlation between behavior and status of
> claws.   Lots of
> people I really like have declawed cats, including
> my vet's
> receptionist.   I continue to believe that cats are
> better off
> declawed than dead, and if you have to make the
> correlation YES I
> would rather have the tips of my fingers chopped off
> than be killed.
> 
> -- 
> Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
> 
> http://www.rescuties.org
> 
> Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
> 
> http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
> 
> Please help George!
> 
> http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
> 
> I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
> 
> Raise money for your favorite charity or school just
> by searching the
> Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
> powered by Yahoo!
> 
> 

Re: FIRE!!!!!

[janine paton]

Hi Susan, 

We went through this 4 yrs ago with our largest foster
home.  It's really a nightmare.  Looking back I can
see we did a few things wrong.  Beating the bushes and
calling their names was the wrong thing to do, esp
with the more feral cats.  Setting traps is really a
better idea.  

You might pick up tips from catsinthebag.org too.  

The leftover smell of the fire and smoke might
discourage them from coming too close to the house -
talk about a bad memory! - so maybe setting traps in
neighbor's yards might be helpful.  

A very few neighbors put food and water out on back
porches or near bushes where a frightened cat could
sneak in and eat and the neighbor would let us know if
that happened so we would then set a trap right there.
 If your neighbors are helpful, that's half the
battle.  

Those 2 things were important to recognize, in
hindsight - the home that now smelled like a nightmare
and the calm, calculated drawing in of the cats in the
surrounding area. 

Thinking of you and your cats,

Janine



  
--- Susan Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Two of the missing cats -- Buddy and Lil Mister --
> are my personal cats, two former feral brothers.  (I
> have their sister YoYo with me right now.)  Buddy
> has been seen inside since the fire but he is really
> freaked, reverted to feral.  Lil Mister has not.
>
>   Sugar is in the house, also a former feral, and
> she's pretty smug about not going into those traps
> we've set.
>
>   Gustine (also known as Yard Fodder) is a VERY
> feral lynxpoint siamese girl, a foster, and she has
> been seen after the fire inside the house.
>
>   Tuffy is a sweet fearful former feral foster girl,
> a little tabby.  Have not seen her.
>
>   Widget is a very shy all black kitten, maybe 4
> months old.  Have not seen her.  (She's the only one
> of the kittens still missing.)
>
>   There are still 3 outside feral cats, all of whom
> have been seen.
>
>   We have traps set inside and out.  Going back with
> a drop trap in a few days to get the outside cats. 
> Planning on camping out there overnight soon to try
> to get the remaining inside cats.  The general
> consensus is that they are hiding inside the house
> and, after trapping Rooster overnight and Tanner
> yesterday, and finding Ember hiding in the burned
> out basement, I suspect they are all still inside. 
> If I keep going back and keep baiting those traps,
> eventually I should be able to get them all.  No one
> has been found dead so I have to assume they are
> alive and in there somewhere.
> 
> wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>   Susan,
>
>   I have crossposted to the hyperT group.  I can
> also send to my cousin in L.A. who knows people, but
> she's out of town until the middle of this month.  I
> am so, so sorry this has happened to you, but so, so
> happy that none of your kitties were killed in the
> fire.  I have a dumb question: are the five lost
> cats just lost/hiding in the house in the rubble or
> are they outside somewhere?  Also, are all your
> personal cats accounted for or are some of them part
> of the missing five?
>
>   Sending good vibes your way to find those lost
> kitties and that you find a place soon to rent until
> you're able to get settled again.
>   :)
>   Wendy
>  
>   "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful
> committed citizens can change the world - indeed it
> is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret
> Meade ~~~
>   
> 
>   - Original Message 
> From: Susan Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 11:03:14 AM
> Subject: Re: FIRE!
> 
>   Just set up a photobucket account with photos of
> (a) fire damage, (b) missing cats and (c) adoptables
> in foster care.  PLEASE CROSSPOST WIDELY.  The link
> is http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb3/susan4233/
>  I will gather more photos as I can but I want to
> start circulating what I have.  
>
>   Need adoption assistance with cats in foster care.
>   Need good trapping vibes for the ones who are
> still missing.
>
>   
> 
> Kelly L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   So far there are now only 5 cats she has not found
> as 
> yet,,Susan's really big need is for fosters who can
> assist with 
> adoptions and anyone knowing of animal friendly
> rentals between 
> Vallejo and San Francisco,,she said she could go up
> to 1500 per month,,
> If you can't reach her you can contact me also
> p.m. and I will reach her,
> thanks
> Kelly
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> -
>   Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel
> answers from someone who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
> 

Re: Something is killing my cats, please help me/environment

[janine paton]

I'm loosing a few too many right now also but for the
most part, they have been diagnosed with something not
terribly surprising, given their circumstances.  But
similar, vague symptoms, I think, is another story.  

One of our larger foster homes had a fire.  For a few
years after, cats would suddenly come down with the
same symptoms, with no explainations - weight loss,
dehydration, great blood work.  There are a lot of
toxins in an older house on fire. 

Another story - a friend's cat, lethargic, anorexic,
suddenly eating weird things.  Big time hospital in
NYC, couldn't come up with anything.  Moved cat out of
house when mold was found from leak in wall or
basement.  Cat immediately got better. 

It is worth checking out your environment, I'm sorry
to say.  Good luck, big hugs, take a deep breath.  

Janine

--- MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> yep. lost gypsy in april, crosby two and a half
> weeks ago, and lexie on
> sunday. all three have been ill for quite awhile,
> and it was just their
> time. would i have scheduled it quite like that? of
> course not.
> 
> right now, for the first time in a very long time, i
> have no sick cats i
> do, however, have one FeLV+ kitten, two FIV+ adults,
> and a number who are 13
> and older.
> 
> MC
> 
> On 6/28/07, Susan Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I lost 3 in January but all were "obvious
> candidates" -- one FIV+ cat with
> > cancer, another who was FIV+ and had badly damaged
> kidneys from having been
> > starved a long time, and my own senior cat who was
> more than 18 years old.
> > So 4 isn't really that many when you do rescue and
> have a house full of cats
> > who came from rough circumstances.
> >
> > *MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
> >
> > it actually isn't, unless it continues. anyone who
> works with large
> > numbers of cats know that sometimes it goes in
> cycles--you can go months
> > without losing any but the obvious candidates,
> then suddenly seem to hit a
> > patch of whatever, and suddenly lose a number.
> it's how it balances out that
> > matters.
> >
> > plus, with rescue animals, coming through a public
> shelter, in a part of
> > the country that has extremes in temperature,
> amounts of moisture, and no
> > real seasons to kill off parasites, etc., until
> cats start coming into these
> > shelters with a full copy of both their genetic
> profiles and their medical
> > histories, it's impossible to know what
> predispositions they are bringing
> > with them, and what hidden conditions.
> >
> > yeah, just my opinion, but based upon working with
> a population of 600+
> > cats.
> >
> > MC
> >
> > On 6/28/07, Susan Dubose < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > As far as shelter rescue work, 4 cats in such a
> short timeframe is not a
> > >
> > > normal rate of death.
> > >
> > > It is exceesively high.
> > >
> > > Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
> > > www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
> 
> > > www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
> 
> > > www.shadowcats.net
> > >   "As Cleopatra
> lay in state,
> > >Faithful Bast
> at her side did wait,
> > >Purring
> welcomes of soft applause,
> > >Ever guarding
> with sharpened claws."
> > > 
> Trajan Tennent
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "wendy" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:45 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Something is killing my cats,
> please help me
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Kelley,
> > >
> > > I'm sorry to hear this.  I honestly don't know
> what to
> > > tell you.  I have no idea what could be causing
> the
> > > deaths.  Are you sure the deaths are related?  I
> am
> > > wondering since you do shelter work if four cats
> out
> > > of ? (how many) is a normal rate of loss, given
> the
> > > circumstances (ie. shelter cats are more likely
> to be
> > > found when rescued with already compromised
> immune
> > > systems).  I don't know much about shelter work,
> so
> > > others with experience will hopefully help you.
> > >
> > > Please keep us posted.
> > > :)
> > > Wendy
> > >
> > > --- Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is the toll so far from this year, not
> > > > including kittens.
> > > >
> > > > Joey - 10 - died in late April.  Being treated
> for
> > > > AIHA.
> > > >
> > > > Lucky Lady - 12 - got sick, was adopted by my
> vet,
> > > > apparently recovered but
> > > > is now dying, they think cancer.
> > > >
> > > > Caroline - ran up a bill in excess of $1,000. 
> No
> > > > one knows what was or is
> > > > wrong.  Possible FIP (but she's getting
> better),
> > > > brain cancer, toxo.
> > > >
> > > > Suzie - I don't even want to see the bill and
> don't
> > > > know how I am going to
> > > > pay it.  Possible FIP, toxo.
> > > >
> > 

Re: Anyone feed a raw diet to their FeLV+ cats?

[janine paton]

I fed my little Baby a raw diet until he went into a
home with leukemia cats.  He came in as a tiny little
thing with horrible URI's and sucked that stuff up
like no tomorrow.  Used Blakkatz.com or catinfo.org -
pretty much the same.  Whole chicken thighs ground up
in grinder, plus supplements, for 6 months.  He did
really, really well, and he absolutely loved it. 

Janine

--- C & J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What sort of raw meat did you use?
> 
> I started off with ground turkey/chicken from the
> supermarket, but didn't 
> feel comfortable with that, so I bought a meat
> grinder.  Now I grind up 
> turkey/chicken thighs after washing them off.
> 
> I can't find organic meat in my area, so I have
> little choice other than to 
> buy meat at the supermarket.
> 
> Cassandra
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Belinda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 4:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Anyone feed a raw diet to their FeLV+
> cats?
> 
> 
> > PS.  I used to feed raw and my positive did very
> well on it, he became a 
> > little chubbster.  I did lose him a year ago to
> pancreatic cancer 
> > unfortunately.
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Belinda
> > happiness is being owned by cats ...
> >
> > Be-Mi-Kitties
> > http://bemikitties.com
> >
> > Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
> > http://adopt.bemikitties.com
> >
> > FeLV Candlelight Service
> > http://bemikitties.com/cls
> >
> > HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
> > http://HostDesign4U.com
> >
> > 
> >
> > BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
> > http://bmk.bemikitties.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 /
> Virus Database: 
> > 269.7.6/813 - Release Date: 5/20/2007 7:54 AM
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 

article on releasing /not testing for felk in feral cats

[janine paton]

http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/info/releasing.htm

>From Neighborhood Cats.  It's well written and helped
one of our hard headed vets understand why we don't
always want them to test.  She actually got it, and
said thanks after she read it. 

Janine

article on releasing /not testing for felk in feral cats

[janine paton]

http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/info/releasing.htm

>From Neighborhood Cats.  It's well written and helped
one of our hard headed vets understand why we don't
always want them to test.  She actually got it, and
said thanks after she read it. 

Janine

Re: question on test result

[janine paton]

Oh good lord, you poor thing.  Poor mom cat!  I'm not
an expert on these things which is why I joined this
list, but we've had positive and negative in the same
litter, and positive kittens revert to negative, and
had some negatives stay that way.   Lots of love, good
food, supplements, maybe some transfer factor and no
one knows how those babies will test down the road. 

Good idea, find a different vet.  Good for you!

Janine

--- "Deana K. Wagoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Here is the next bit of info on my situation - My
> husband went by the vet office to pay the bill for
> the "service" provided on the stray mama that died
> from the dog inflicted injuries.
> The vet was not at all happy that we were not
> bringing the kittens to her to be put to sleep -
> since she is confident they are all positve and will
> die. (she has never seen them) 
> 
> The vet now says the first test on the dying mother
> was "slightly postive" so she ran it again and it
> was "More positive."   Is there such thing as
> slightly positive or is it just yes or no? 
> 
> I will never know if the mama cat was beyond
> treatment for sure, but I do know that the test was
> done about 4 hours after I left her there and no
> treatment or exam was done before that. 
> The most important item on the list was this test. 
> 
> We are looking for another vet.
> 
> Deana
> 
> 
> 

Re: Survey on IFA's turning negative

[janine paton]

I was wondering this exact question tonight.  Our
group has a pos kitten, about 6 mos, who IFA tested
pos 2 months ago.  Any chance at all he will retest
IFA negative? 

The poor kitten is in a kitty condo.  It has a hammock
and he can look out a window but he so lonely, he
wimpers when he sees another cat.  Not one of us has a
room without cats in it.  And he's not tame enough yet
for most people.  Beautiful, long haired kitten, too -
it's heartbreaking.  

Janine
--- wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hey guys,
> 
> Survey question: Have any of you ever had a cat that
> tested positive on the IFA eventually test negative
> at
> a later date?  I called and spoke with Joanie at
> Best
> Friends, the woman who is normally at Casa de
> Calmar. 
> I asked her about testing procedures, because I was
> considering having Toshie retested to see if she was
> still positive so I could possibly adopt her. 
> Joanie
> told me that they have had cats that have arrived at
> Best Friends that subsequently sero-converted (what
> we
> refer to as 'throwing the virus').  She said that if
> a
> cat tests positive on Elisa but negative on IFA,
> that
> they do have a chance to sero-convert.  They do not
> place these cats in Casa de Calmar, the FeLV unit,
> nor
> do they mix them with any other cats, as they can
> possibly infect others or their own sero-conversion
> can be affected by
> further exposure to FeLV.  As long as they keep
> testing positive on Elisa but negative on IFA, they
> are tested every six weeks until they get a negative
> or positive IFA.  If negative, they are mixed with
> the
> general population and put up for adoption.  If
> positive, the virus is already in their bone marrow,
> which means to the veterinary community that they
> can
> never sero-convert, and they are then placed in Casa
> de Calmar.  
> 
> Thus, my question above.  I am wondering if these
> testing guidelines hold true 100% of the time.
> 
> Thanks,
> :)
> Wendy
> 
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful
> committed citizens can change the world - indeed it
> is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret
> Meade ~~~
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 

RE: OT: Pregnant Feral Kitty....Questions

[janine paton]

I would spay her also, I'm sorry to say.  I don't like
it, neither do the vets, but I don't like the reality
of over population either.  We just took a little one
from a mom who could not or would not feed her babies
- the other 2 siblings died.  Next night, young tame
mother brought to animal control in distress and
bleeding - 3 dead kittens inside of her.  

I trapped a feral cat once, who looked so pregnant to
me - just HUGE - but with runny eyes, horrible
neighborhood, outside in freezing sleet - I could not
bring myself to spay her.  Thought for sure she'd have
her kittens the next day.  THREE WEEKS LATER she gave
birth - joke was on me!   2 great kittens, 2 not so
great - 5 yrs later still have one of those kittens
who strikes me as border-line autistic.  I love him
dearly, but who else will? 

But if you decide to NOT spay her, please ask a good
vet if she should be de-wormed or vaccinated.  I can
never remember these things, but if she needs to wait
until after her litter is born, no big deal. 

 
--- Melissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Terrie,
> 
> I agree with Nina. I just made this difficult
> decision last week and had
> Nonie (a rescue) spay/abort. However, this is such a
> personal choice; you
> have to do what you feel is right. I took in 3
> rescues/foster cats last
> week, and I don't run a shelter. Since I couldn't
> afford it if Nonie had
> babies, I decided to do this. Also, I know that
> where I live, trying to find
> a home for these three fosters will be next to
> impossible let alone a
> litter. But, I know it's a delicate and
> controversial issue-one that I
> grappled with quite a bit. Good luck with Little
> Girl-poor baby! Best
> Wishes, Melissa
> 
>  
> 
>   _  
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Nina
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:33 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: OT: Pregnant Feral KittyQuestions
> 
>  
> 
> I see you haven't removed the invisible sign
> welcoming wayward ones from
> your front lawn :-) .  I Googled your question about
> worming pregnant cats
> and got conflicting answers. If it where me, esp
> given her age and
> circumstance, I'd have her spayed and the kittens
> aborted.  It may sound
> harsh, but I've come to that conclusion from harsh
> realities.  I completely
> understand and respect your decision to let her have
> her kittens, esp if she
> is in good health and you are able to take on the
> responsibility.  I love
> the babies and even with my harsh opening disclaimer
> would be thrilled to
> hear the pitter patter of little kitten paws about
> the place.  If you are
> going to take this on, I would bring her to the vet
> and have her checked.
> At the very least, get a stool sample and have it
> checked for worms.  I know
> there are certain worms that can be dangerous for
> the kittens.  From the
> behavior you describe, I'm betting Little Girl will
> tame up in no time.  She
> sounds like she is reaching out to you and has had
> at least some good
> experiences with humans.  What a smart girl to have
> found her way to you!
> Congratulations.  Please keep us informed,
> Nina
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> It looks as we have a Feral pregnant Mom that
> has found her way to us.
> I'm going to trap her and put her on my back porch
> so she can tame down.
> Also have her babies safely. She is just a tiger
> strip kitty and very small.
> I have named her "Little Girl"
> 
> My question is "Can she be wormed?"
> 
> Do you recommend she be vaccinated before or after
> the birth of the kittens?
> 
> I use Heska...it is intra nasal vaccination on my
> cats. I've never had any
> problems with it.
> 
> I can tell she wants to be friendly with me. I can
> get about 2 feet from her
> and drop some food down. I back off and she eats it
> up.
> 
> I have been feeding her with my other Feral kitties.
> 
> I normally wouldn't ask these questions but never
> had a pregnant kitty
> either that lived outside that is feral. I can tell
> she is a baby herself
> she is under a year old at the most maybe 7-9 months
> old. 
> 
> I will get her spayed for free after the babies are
> born.
> 
>  
> 
> So as you can see I'm clueless on this!
> 
> Thanks for your help in this matter.
> 
> Hugs to all
> 
>  
> 
> Terrie Mohr-Forker 
> 
> 

2 very different positives Ross and Prince

[janine paton]

Hello, 

I'm with a rescue group and have questions about 2
different cats who have tsted positive.  Ross -   A
family we connected with rescued a front declawed,
orange 2 yr old male from an abandoned building 2 yrs
ago.  He test leukemia positive.  Family did not give
up on him and he has lived in child's bedroom since. 
He's 4 now, they recently retested him and he is still
positive.  The family would keep him but would rather
he have a more normal life because he's a really nice
cat and maybe a little lonely.  

Someone is interested in adopting the cat and we know
her - she's a good mom and recently lost her orange
female to cancer.  Here's my first question - 

4 yr old very healthy and happy male - am I correct in
thinking he has a good shot at a long life since he's
past that 2 yr mark and has never been sick? 

2nd cat Prince - trapped him a few weeks ago.  Looks
like a 3 month old kitten but is getting his adult
teeth so in reality closer to 5 months.Was
extremely dehydrated and constipated, and very skinny
under his very matted fur.  Absolutely beautiful
kitten, but something is "off" about him.  Should I
get my hopes up about Prince retesting negative in a
month?  

Opinions/best guesses please? 

Janine

Re: vet in Ct

[janine paton]

This is a vet on our org's board.  Her name is Elaine
Parliman and her email is
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  She's based in Norwalk,
CT, and makes house calls. 

Janine  

--- kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 10:59 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
> 
> I will pass this on to her. Sadly she lost Binky ..
> KELLY
> 
> >Hi- sorry...I just read post requesting referral
> for vet in Ct.  New 
> >England Cat Care in Amity(right of Merritt Parkway)
> is wonderful. 
> >203-387-6369. They only care for felines. It is a
> husband-wife team. 
> >He is also a registered pharmacist for many years
> before going to 
> >vet school. I found them when I was in Ct and used
> them for all my 
> >special needs kitties when my regular vet had given
> up or just 
> >wasn't well enough versed in special care/needs.
> They are wonderful 
> >and so very,very caring. Now that I am in northern
> Vt- I 
> >really,really miss them. There have been several
> times when I 
> >thought of taking certain kitties back down to them
> 4 1/2 
> >hourshope this helps.
> >
> >Roxanne
>
>
> >[]
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 -
> Release Date: 10/20/2006
> 

Re: More about good news!!!

[janine paton]

Maybe you can find some good tips on
www.catsinthebag.org - it's a good website on how to
find lost cats. 

--- Gary Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi you wonderful group you,
> 
> Leslie will post more tomorrow, I was so excited I'm
> not sure if I've got the details right, but here's a
> rough version of how she got him back:
> He was hanging out near an electronics? store a
> little north of where he was stolen.  They were
> feeding him, a girl (from the store?) brought him to
> the vet to see if he had a microchip, but the vet
> had a hard time and couldn't get a reading on it. 
> They planned to bring him back the next day to try
> for a reading again.  Meanwhile, the girl called her
> mom and told her "Mom, I found the nicest cat for
> you."  The mom saw the story on the news tonight and
> either she or her daughter called Leslie.  I think
> she has him back home right now.  Beatrix is still
> missing, but at least they have an area on which to
> concentrate.  Keep thinking those good thoughts and
> give your furbabies an extra hug tonight...
> 
> Beth  

Ridgefield, Connecticut - 2 leukemia pos girls

[janine paton]

Guy called today.  Going through divorce, wife does
not want the cats. He's moving back in with his
parents, who have a cat, but are thankfully away for a
week.  When he called, he was driving around with his
cats in his car.  I asked him to bring the cats to his
parents' house and put them in a confined area and
give me a chance to place them.  

Leukemia positive, both 3 yrs old, one all grey, one
calico, both affectionate sweet cats.

He's pretty sure his parents will not let the cats
stay there.  

I am depressingly overloaded.  Does anyone know of a
safe place for these girls?

Thanks, 

Janine

RE: slippery elm bark for nausea/article

[janine paton]

>From Little Big Cat website, good article on slippery
elm.  

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=slipperyelm

Janine



--- "MacKenzie, Kerry N."
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> what's "im" MC?? Can't figure it out! Kerry
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of TenHouseCats
> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:17 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: slippery elm bark for nausea
> 
> 
> let me tell you that instant-messaging services are
> GREAT for those of
> us who are up-at-all-hours--you KNOW who's up, so
> you don't have to
> worry about waking anyone, and long "talks" with
> friends make the wee
> hours more enjoyable! (but then, i've been trying to
> get nina up on im
> for at least a year now.) 
>  
> MC
> 
>  
> On 8/5/06, Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
>   Bonnie,
>   Is the slippery elm for you, or a kitty?  What's
> going on?
>   Another, up at all hours human,
>   Nina
>   
>   BONNIE J KALMBACH wrote:
>   
>   >Will slippery elm bark help with nausea?
>   >
>   >Thanks, Bonnie in WI
>   >
> 
>
>http://grants.library.wisc.edu/organizations/animals.html
> 
>   >http://savingspaldingpets.blogspot.com/
>   
>
>http://www.bestfriends.org/nomorehomelesspets/pdf/walkforanimals.pdf
> 
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   
>   
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> MaryChristine
> 
> AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
> MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> ICQ: 289856892
>  
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above
> as to tax matters was neither written nor intended
> by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be
> used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the
> purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be
> imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or
> refers to any such tax advice in promoting,
> marketing or recommending a partnership or other
> entity, investment plan or arrangement to any
> taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support
> the promotion or marketing (by a person other than
> Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of that transaction or
> matter, and (ii) such taxpayer should seek advice
> based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from
> an independent tax advisor
>  
> This email and any files transmitted with it are
> intended solely for the use of the individual or
> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
> received this email in error please notify the
> system manager. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this
> e-mail.
> 

Re: 2 littermates - one pos/one neg

[janine paton]

Thank you all! 

I would prefer they stay together also and will try to
talk the woman who trapped the mom into that.  Our vet
thinks we should separate the kittens from the mom
now, but I am wondering if the negative kitten is
immune anyway.  How much more "prolonged contact" can
you get than birth and motherhood in a crate???

BTW, the mom had 5 kittens - one stillborn, 2 died
within a week.  I suppose that could be leukemia but
could have been  the tremendous amount of stress that
mom must have been under.

--- Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Janine,
> I agree with Belinda and Rachel.  I would keep them
> together, for both 
> their sakes.  Poor little lambs have been through so
> much already.  Have 
> you been reading the posts lately?  We just had a
> kitten on the list 
> apparently turn out to be a false pos.  I know it's
> less likely in your 
> case, given that other members of the colony are
> testing pos too, but 
> your little boy is only 7 weeks and may very well be
> testing pos because 
> of his mother's antibodies still.  Whatever you
> decide, I know that you 
> have their best interest at heart.  Still, I'm
> praying that they can be 
> kept together and adopted out to someone that cares
> as much as we do for 
> their quality of life.
> Thanks for all you do,
> Nina
> 
> janine paton wrote:
> 
> >Hi all, 
> >
> >Two brothers, 7 weeks today tested one positive,
> one
> >negative for leukemia.  The mom is feral, and has
> not
> >been tested yet, but her sister tested positive. 
> The
> >mom had been trapped by someone trying to do the
> right
> >thing, but the kittens were born beforre she could
> get
> >her to the vet.  All have been living together
> crated
> >in this person's home.  
> >
> >As an organization, we had a pair of littermates
> >testing the same as these 2, and we let them stay
> >together.  The positive cat died at around 3 yrs,
> the
> >negative cat is still negative (and has recently
> been
> >adopted!) so it's not entirely new to me but what's
> >the best thing to do?  Try to adopt them out as a
> >pair?  Separate them now?  Or it doesn't matter at
> >this point, even if the negative kitten is so
> young?  
> >
> >The test was Elysa and we are re-running both. 
> >
> >Thanks! 
> >
> >Janine
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 

2 littermates - one pos/one neg

[janine paton]

Hi all, 

Two brothers, 7 weeks today tested one positive, one
negative for leukemia.  The mom is feral, and has not
been tested yet, but her sister tested positive.  The
mom had been trapped by someone trying to do the right
thing, but the kittens were born beforre she could get
her to the vet.  All have been living together crated
in this person's home.  

As an organization, we had a pair of littermates
testing the same as these 2, and we let them stay
together.  The positive cat died at around 3 yrs, the
negative cat is still negative (and has recently been
adopted!) so it's not entirely new to me but what's
the best thing to do?  Try to adopt them out as a
pair?  Separate them now?  Or it doesn't matter at
this point, even if the negative kitten is so young?  

The test was Elysa and we are re-running both. 

Thanks! 

Janine

 

Re: FIV resources

[janine paton]

I think FIV cats seem to be the sweetest too - trapped
one the other day and the poor boy peed in the trap,
he was so frightened.  That's the first time that's
ever happened to me. 

There are a whole bunch of rescue people a little
north of where I am who instead of saying the cat
tested FIV+, say the cat has AIDS.  It bugs me!  Maybe
coincidently, maybe not, the vets they use tend to
think they should be put down too.  Kills me! 

Janine

--- Susan Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "No big deal" -- those were the exact words of one
> of my vets when Scooter tested FIV+  And my current
> vet (part of an AAHA certified veterinary hospital)
> is also similarly enlightened, including on the
> question of FIV+ and FIV- cats mixing.  I know how
> lucky I am.  I know this is not the standard across
> the US
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Lucky you, with a vet
> like that! No, I remember 
> MC (tenhousecats) saying that at their large 
> rescue up in Michigan, the FIV's were sweet and 
> laid back - and all mine six are (and healthy too,
> no problelms).
> 
> Gloria
> 
> 
> 
> At 08:56 AM 6/2/2006, you wrote:
> >We've got an FIV guy here...the sweetest, most laid
> back little dude
> >I've ever met! I didn't know much about FIV other
> than it was pretty
> >hard to spread it and that cats can live relatively
> normal lives with
> >the virus. But what really set me straight was the
> attitude of my vet
> >who basically said, "No big deal, I've got one at
> my house who mingles
> >with all of my other cats!" As much as I knew in my
> heart it was no big
> >deal, it really gave me a peace of mind hearing it
> from an "expert,"
> >so-to-speak! :)
> >
> >Education is probably the key, and having more vets
> out there to dispel
> >the "myths" would certainly come in handy (and this
> goes for FeLV, too)!
> >
> >As an aside, is it true that FIV cats seem to be
> some of the coolest
> >cats around, or is it just me? ;)
> >
> >
>
>
> >"But if you tame me, then we shall need each other.
> To me, you will be
> >unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique
> in all the world; You
> >become responsible, forever, for what you have
> tamed..." --Antoine de
> >Saint-Exupéry
> >
> >"If you talk to the animals they will talk with you
> and you will know
> >each other. If you do not talk to them you will not
> know them, and what
> >you do not know you will fear. What one fears one
> destroys." --Chief Dan
> >George
> >
> >"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as
> long..." --Blade Runner
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Date: Friday, June 2, 2006 8:37 am
> >Subject: Re: FIV resources
> >To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >
> > > It's discouraging. I have never placed an FIV+
> cat. I have 5 or
> > > 6,
> > > and they're wonderful. Something to work on, I
> guess.
> > >
> > > Gloria
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:29 AM 6/2/2006, you wrote:
> > > >I have a couple of FIV+ cats of my own and a
> beautiful little
> > > >Siamese mix foster who is FIV+ They take longer
> to place. We
> > > have
> > > >to try harder. We have to work at educating
> people. But we have
> > > to
> > > >get the message out that FIV cats can live long
> happy lives and
> > > are
> > > >not furry little lepers. Consider how language
> reflects mindset
> > > and
> > > >affects actions. Does it really take longer to
> place an FIV cat
> > > >than a senior or a special needs cat? Or an all
> black cat? Some
> > > >take longer than others.
> > > >
> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >I have one up for adoption too... they are hard
> to place.
> > > >
> > > >Phaewryn (was Jenn, changed name)
> > > >http://ucat.us
> > > >http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
> > > >Adopt a cat from Little Cheetah (UCAT) Cat
> Rescue:
> > > >http://ucat.us/adopt.html
> > > >PLEASE DONATE TO THE TANGLE FUND:
> > > >Tangle is a cat in Greece that was severely
> injured when someone
> > > >wrapped wire around his neck to strangle him,
> > > >Little Cheetah Cat Rescue is raising funds to
> bring Tangle to
> > > >Vermont to find him a good home!
> > > >http://ucat.us/tangle-fund.html
> > > >DONATE: We could really use a power saw (for
> construction), a
> > > >digital camera (for pictures), and more towels!
> > > >No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354
> - Release Date:
> > > 6/1/2006>
> > >
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> 

l-lysine for kittens

[janine paton]

Anyone know the dose of lysine to give to kittens? 
They are 4 months, a little thin.  

Thanks, 

Janine

Re: OT: heartbroken

[janine paton]

I've also trapped moms using kittens for bait.  It's
heartbreaking until you see the mom weeks after the
spay  and she looks so much better and relaxed.  

Think of it this way - if you didn't try this - the
kittens will get bigger, she will have a harder time
caring for them.  They will start wandering and
something could happen to them.  She will get pregnant
again and not want that litter anymore.  

When I've brought a feral mom in with kittens and mom
sees I'm willing to take care of the kittens, she is
relieved and it's probably the first break she's had
in a long time.  I've had mothers who are sick but you
wouldn't even know it until they understand they no
longer have pretend to be fine just because they have
kittens.

I also will show the kittens to the mom when I can but
I always  tell her it's OK, her babies are fine.

Take a deep breath and go for the spay - it will make
a big difference in her quality of life.



--- Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've done this with kittens and their Momma.  I too
> was upset about 
> having to put the kittens through the experience,
> but it worked like a 
> charm and the kitten did fine.  I didn't use all the
> kittens, just the 
> strongest guy.  If you continue to trap, you'd be
> doing the ferals a 
> great service by having them s/n and then returning
> them to the site.  I 
> know you have problems with the "return" part of
> TNR, but please think 
> about it, you would be saving kitties suffering down
> the line.
> Love to you sweetheart,
> Nina
> 
> Joan Doljan wrote:
> 
> > A good way to catch the mother is to put the
> kittens in a closed 
> > carrier directly infront of an opened, baited
> trap.
> >
> > */Hideyo Yamamoto
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
> >
> > Hi, everyone, I wanted to share a couple of
> new things -
> > I rescued three baby cats yesterday who were
> living under the
> > crawl space of the abandoned house, which is
> now bought and be
> > ready to be renovated.. the new owner was
> planning to get rid of
> > the kittens along with all the kitties who
> live under the crawl
> > space and I offered to take them.  The babies
> were actually under
> > the hole under the crawl space which only the
> size of my entire
> > hand and thought I and Kathy (my rescue
> friend) were never going
> > to be able to get them out... but finally
> using a little fish net
> > to get one by one out - they were only 6 weeks
> old, one calico,
> > one tabby and one turtleshell (?) and they are
> all so cute.
> >  
> > The one sad thing is that their mama came to
> look for the babies
> > while we were under the crawl space, she was
> so worried about us
> > doing something to the babies.. one time, I
> thought we should just
> > leave and have the mama take care of the
> babies and I worry that
> > later on, she might take babies some other
> crawl space near there
> > (there a few, unfortunately), and people might
> close the crawl
> > space without knowing that they were there..
> the mama came back
> > several times (while we were there as we were
> there for about 5
> > hours).. I felt very bad for mama but I
> decided to take the babies
> > from her..
> >  
> > I tried to trap the mama kitty last night but
> I couldn't - there
> > are several kitties there.. I trapped one who
> looked like mama..
> > but she must be from mama's previous litter -
> she is less than a
> > year old..
> >  
> > Anyway, I wanted to ask you to pray that I
> will be able to catch
> > mama soon (I probably could, if I don't mind
> catching all other
> > kitties who live there.. but I don't know
> where I could put them
> > now as I am running out of crate) --- and the
> mama will stay safe
> > and she will not be worrying too much about
> their babies. I am
> > heartbroken for the mama -I feel very badly
> for taking the babies
> > from their mama...I know that this is probably
> the right thing..
> > but I still cannot not think about the mama...
> >  
> >
> >
> 

Re: OT: New journey-laying tile!!!

[janine paton]

No experience here but much interest in the responses!
 My wood floors and carpeted upstairs are trashed!

I can't see my husband and I laying tile ourselves but
maybe some people from the organization will help us. 


Janine

-- wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hey guys,
> 
> My husband and I have decided to go with the tile in
> replacing our carpet in the living room, hallway and
> one bedroom, plus we figure we might as well replace
> the kitchen and master bath linoleum while we're at
> it
> as it needs replacing too. We're going to move on
> this
> in the next two weeks, since I'm having foot surgery
> on the 25th of April and would like it completed by
> then.  There is some beautiful tile out there.  What
> stinks is that the labor costs twice as much as the
> tile.  So if you have a 10x10 room, and the tile is
> 2$
> per square foot (on average), it's going to cost you
> $200 for just the tile.  But the labor is another
> $3.25 (HD) or $3.50 (Lowe's) per square foot, so
> what
> we could do for $200 will end up costing us
> $525-550. 
> That's a lot!  And when you're talking about 800
> square feet, it gets expensive.  Plus, sealing the
> tile is extra (we will for sure do that ourselves),
> and tearing up the carpet is extra (we'll do that
> too), and floor prep is extra (probably do that
> too!!!).  LOL.  So we might possibly lay the tile
> ourselves with help from a few friends who have
> already done it.  My husband is scared to do it-he
> doesn't want to mess our house up.  I am more the
> do-it-yourself type, so I'm all for it.  Anyone out
> there ever lay tile?  Any thoughts or advice?
> 
> :)
> Wendy
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 

Re: Need help and prayers for my sister's lost cat

[janine paton]

Try www.catsinthebag.org

--- Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> My sister's (Connie), inside-only tuxedo cat went
> missing sometime last 
> night.  His name is Tux and he's short haired, and
> about 2yrs, with the 
> sweetest little kitten face.  They think he may have
> snuck out when a 
> visitor left the screen door ajar, (the visitor left
> around 9pm).  They 
> didn't miss him until this morning because my nephew
> thought he was 
> sleeping with my sister and my sister thought he was
> with my nephew.  
> They are sick with worry.  Not only has he never
> been outside before, 
> but he's very skittish and they live in coyote
> territory.  Being out at 
> night is a death sentence for any small pets in
> their neighborhood.  To 
> make matters worse, he has short little legs and he
> can't even jump on a 
> counter, let alone scale a wall.  I've set a trap in
> her front yard and 
> they've confined their other cat to the bedroom so
> they can leave the 
> front door open.  She's already put up fliers and
> tomorrow we'll be 
> canvassing the neighborhood door to door with his
> picture and info.  
> Please, please, please take a moment to send out
> positive thoughts to 
> help him find his way home safely.  This is doubly
> hard on Connie 
> because her 17 year old dog just crossed about a
> month ago.
> 
> I called several professional ACs today, but no one
> has called me back 
> yet.  If anyone on the AC group can help contact him
> we'd be so 
> appreciative.  I can only imagine how scared he is
> and how disoriented.  
> I've posted a couple of pictures under "Come home
> Tux", (I hope I did it 
> right!).
> Thank you so much,
> Nina
> 
> 
> 

Re: FeLV + test results

[janine paton]

But is IS true with the FIV vaccine.  

Janine

--- Terri Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I agree with Chris.  That's not so with the FeLV
> vaccine.  My Siggie was always vaccinated and has
> always tested negative.
> 
> =^..^= Terri, Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere,
> Sammi, Travis, Dori and 6 furangels: RuthieGirl,
> Samantha, Arielle, Gareth, Alec & Salome' =^..^=
> 
> Furkid Photos!
>
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/
> My Personal Page:
>
http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Chris 
>   To:
>
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> 
>   Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 4:42 PM
>   Subject: RE: FeLV + test results
> 
> 
>   I think that this is only for FIV vaccine, not
> FELV... but I may be wrong on
>   that
> 
>   Chris
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>   -Original Message-
>   From:
>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Karolyn Lount
>   Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 6:29 AM
>   To:
>
[EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
>  
>
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED];
>
[EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED];
>
[EMAIL PROTECTED];
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lynne
>   Subject: FeLV + test results
> 
>   I learned something the other day I did not know.
> If a cat is vaccinated
>   against getting FeLV all its life it will test
> positive. So it could
>   very well be that a rescue cat that tests positive
> is not. This is what
>   my new vet told me. I feel this all the more
> reason not to put down
>   those that test positive. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: OT: Best canned food (poll for everyone)

[janine paton]

Here is a good list

 http://www.catinfo.org/commercialcannedfoods.htm

Most importantly, the catinfo.org website explains WHY
it's a good list.  Dr. Pierson did such a good job
putting all of this together and when I asked her for
permission to post to our website she said Yes,
whatever you can do that helps cats - she really
cares. 

Please read about why not dry food, and why not grain
- it makes so much sense! 

Site also has a recipe for raw, how to read labels
(like don't let the protein content fool you!), how to
switch dry food junkies over to canned or raw - really
well done. 

I fed raw for years, but can't do it right now because
I have more cats than I care to count but for now I'm
feeding Wellness because I can get it here.  It's not
a perfect answer but way better than most other
commercial foods.  

Site also has listed references to look up or link to.
 

Janine


--- wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for the info. Michelle.  Here is a link to
> the
> website I was looking at with Felidae on it: 
>
http://www.thecatconnection.com/page/TCC/CTGY/FOD-WET
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Of those, I have only tried Felidae (chicken and
> > rice flavor), Wellness  (all 
> > kinds), and Innova.  The cats would only eat
> Innova
> > every once in a  while, 
> > so even though I liked the ingredients best they
> do
> > not get it very often  
> > (Ginger is the only one on normal food right now
> > anyway, and she is currently  
> > obsessed with ProPlan Chicken and Rice and Salmon
> > and Rice and will not eat  
> > anything else!).  They have been obsessed, on and
> > off, with the Felidae  chicken 
> > and rice and the Wellness chicken and herring. 
> They
> > seem to do  fine on them, 
> > except that when Patches was eating the Wellness
> > chicken and  herring too much 
> > she got struvite crystals, but Ginger did not.  I
> > would  get Felidae if I 
> > could find it-- I got in MA all the time, but in
> NJ
> > no one  seems to carry it.
> >  
> > Michelle
> > 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 

Re: Bad news about Starman - OT (long)

[janine paton]

I always thought those big FIV cats are just the
sweetest -  just never heard anyone come out and say
that! 

Lucky person who gets found by one of those cats - my
big, scary looking guy was the best cat I've ever
lived with.  My husband went from calling him a
"monster" - this was fear I think for the other cats,
and his bloody mouth - to crying like a baby when the
cat passed.  

My vet at that time had 4 FIV's and 4 negs for years
living together and she tested them every year, since
she could do that on her own, and nothing ever
changed. 

Congratulations and give him a big head butt for me -
I really miss that!

Janine

--- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Nina,
>
>   As soon as you said 'big intact male' I KNEW he
> was going to be fiv positive.  Since you asked for
> opinions I'm going to give you mine.  I hope you
> don't take offense.
>
>   We had a stray cat living around our lake house
> that we visit on weekends only.  He looked horrible.
>  His ears were all bloody and bent down.  He was
> grungy.  He would walk around and cry when we were
> there, but would never let us catch him.  His eyes
> were crusty and he drooled constantly.  He was in
> really, really bad shape.  The first weekend I saw
> him I found out he had been hanging around and
> people were trying to run him off.  You can imagine
> how well that went over with me.
>
>   So I spent all weekend trying to catch him, but
> didn't have a carrier, trap, anything with me.  At
> that time I was not into rescue. I had 3 cats at
> home.  (My first 3 I'd ever had.)  He was HUGE, and
> I was afraid of him.  Well I couldn't catch him and
> everyone was saying someone should shoot him and put
> him out of his misery.  I told my grandfather if he
> did such a thing I would NEVER speak to him again,
> and he believed me.  We had a huge argument about
> how I had too many cats. (3- lol)
>
>   I had to work during the week, but the next week I
> went back with a carrier, tuna, and sardines.  I
> didn't even know there was such a thing as a 'cat
> trap'!  After hours and hours I tricked him into the
> carrier sometime Friday night.  He went beserk,
> foaming at the mouth, his ears all bloody, sneezing,
> etc The next morning I found a local vet and
> took the cat in squawling to have him put to sleep.
>
>   Well, the vet said the cat was fine and there was
> no reason to put him to sleep!  He had scratched his
> ears raw due to earmites.  He had buckshot in his
> ears that the doctor removed. grrr!  He
> had an upper resp. infection and some bad teeth.
>
>   I didn't know what to do.  I couldn't take this
> sick cat that I was scared to death of home!  The
> vet said "Why don't you just take him home and let
> him be an outdoor cat?  So I thought that was a
> better choice than pts so I said yes.  He kept him
> until the next weekend for me and neutered him
> etc
>
>   During that week I put up a fence for a few
> thousand dollars so dogs wouldn't bother my 'new
> outdoor cat'.  I brought him home the next week. 
> The vet said he was fine, but I was still afraid of
> him.  I decided to keep him in a cage until his
> antibiotics were finished.  His ears were so gross I
> didn't even want to touch him.  Everyone who saw him
> had a fit asking why I brought this horrible looking
> bloody cat home.
>
>   After a few more days I decided to just let him
> out on my screened porch because I was afraid if I
> put him outside right away he would run away.  This
> cat would come up to me and try to head butt me with
> his bloody head. He would follow me around like a
> dog.  He weighed nearly 20 pounds, looked like a
> mongrel, and I was STILL afraid of him.  I kept
> waiting for him to cry to go outside or bolt toward
> the door when I opened it, but that never happened. 
> Over the days of course I petted him some, but was
> still afraid.
>
>   Finally I let him in the house with everyone else.
>  The first night he snuggled right up with me on the
> bed.  He was the biggest loverboy I've ever known. 
> Soon his ears healed, but they were always scarred.
> He looked like a scottish fold with lots of scars. 
> I had named him Brutus because he was such a big
> Brute.  Anyone who's been on the list for years like
> me has heard me talk about my Brutus.  He was THE
> most loving cat I've ever had.  EVERYONE fell in
> love with him.  Every time I had company they wanted
> to take him home.  He was almost like a person. 
> When I would talk about who would take my cats if
> something happened to me everyone always said they'd
> take Brutus!  He was s cool.
>
>   He is the one that I wrote about that would eat so
> much he would throw up most of the time.  I guess he
> had been starved for so long.  I had to feed him
> small amounts at a time or NEVER let the dishes go
> empty or he would overeat and get sick.
>
>   It's too late to make such a long story short, but
> after about 7

Re: Sweet Angel Sam/Add to CLS

[janine paton]

I can't imagine what this is like for you either. 
Peace to you and LIghtening Bug.  

I hope all the love we have for these cats gets
wrapped around them and makes that journey easier. 
 

.  --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Del,
>
>   I found your message about Sam.  Again, I'm so
> sorry.  Yes, it is hard to lose them so close
> together.  I've never lost 2 so close together so
> can only imagine your pain.  :(
>
>   tonya
> 
> "Del H. Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My sweet boy passed away early this
> morning while I talked to him and held his hand. 
> His last 24+ hours was bad, I didn't expect him to
> last as long as he did.  His first clot was
> mid-November with back end paralysis but he regained
> some limb function. He threw another saddle clot
> Sunday night but rallied, then Wednesday night threw
> another and it was downhill from there.  He was not
> going to survive when he continued to throw these
> clots frequently while on the meds and his heart was
> inconsistent.  Ten minutes before he died Lightning
> Bug, his sister, lay in front of his crate for five
> minutes his head was right next to hers, like they
> were sharing unspoken thoughts before he moved on. 
> He and Effie used to look at each other in
> admiration through the screen door, now they are
> finally playing together.
>   It's hard losing two in a week.  
>   Del
> 
> 
> 

Re: Fwd: Welcome to feral_cats

[janine paton]

This is the best source of information on feral cats -
I used to be stuck to it like glue, and wish I could
be still. 

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> FYI, group on caring for feral cats, and this email
> has link to group on  
> bottle feeding kittens...
> Michelle
> > Date: 12 Jan 2006 00:55:50 -
> From: feral_cats Moderator
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Welcome to feral_cats 
> 
> 
> Hello,
>  
> Welcome to Feral_Cats! I hope you find your stay
> here very enjoyable and informative.  We have many
> great members with plenty of experience. Feel free
> to introduce yourself to us. But first, please take
> a moment to carefully review this message (it's very
> important!):
>  
> Before posting questions, be sure to check out our
> FILES and LINKS sections on the group's home page:
>  
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feral_cats
>  
> There you'll find a WEALTH of info on how to start
> rescue, what to do if you find a stray, TNR
> (trap-neuter-return), taming hard stray/feral cats,
> and trapping techniques compiled by our various
> members. Please take a look! This will allow you to
> ask more detailed questions on the topic of your
> choice.
>  
> If you have found a tiny kitten who needs bottle
> feeding, feel
> free to post here, but you might also post on:
>  
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orphankittens
>  
> There is great info on bottle feeding and care of
> neonatal kittens,
> at: 
>  
> http://www.kittenrescue.org/handbook.htm
>  
> We have a very active list, with hundreds of
> messages likely to come
> through in a month. If at any time you feel
> overwhelmed by the volume of the mail, please
> consider switching to our DIGEST format or selecting
> NO EMAIL and reading from the website. (These
> settings can be found by selecting "Edit My
> Membership" at the top-right hand side of the group
> home page.)
>  
> To start sending messages to all members of this
> group, simply send email to:
>  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
> If you do not wish to belong to feral_cats, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
>  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> One last friendly reminder. This is a public list.
> Anything you say could be viewed by any number of
> people. So please be very careful when disclosing
> personal information.
>  
> Again, welcome to the list.  Thanks for taking the
> time to read this.  Please read the enclosed files,
> including Rules and Guidelines.
>  
> 
> Regards,
> Kim
> Feral Cats Moderator
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: stomatitis

[janine paton]

My experience with stomatitis was with an FIV cat.  As
I understand it, the red line is gingivitis (you can
try rubbing Co-q-10 gel on that) but Kohl had the red
line and sores in his mouth, which was the stomatitis
part, and down his throat. 

Because he was FIV+, the vet pulled a few teeth but
did not want to put him on dep since he was already
immune compromised.  After a few weeks, the sores and
pain came back and they gave him the dep.  3 days
later, he came down with the worse uri I've ever seen,
and it scared me.  So I found my homeopathic vet, put
the cat on a raw diet, and he lived 2 more very
active, mostly pain free years before sarcoma killed
him. 

Janine 

- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> So I am thinking Ginger's food problem-- eating only
> a little bit at a time  
> and never much-- over the last few days may be from
> stomatitis. She has always 
>  had bad gums. She had 10 teeth out last spring
> because she stopped eating 
> and  had many rotting teeth, and has been better
> since then. But she has a red 
> line  on her gums next to her teeth. I have her on
> interferon and am brushing 
> her  teeth.  I have read on this list that
> clindamycin works, and aloe, and  
> depomedrol shots.  Have any of you had cats who
> would not eat very much due  to 
> stomatitis (and was it a red line on the gums?)
> actually feel better just  
> from clindamycin or from clindamycin and aloe?  If
> so, how long a  treatment? I 
> still have the bottle of clindamycin that Ginger was
> prescribed in  April after 
>  her dental surgery, because she was switched to
> clavamox for a  URI after 
> only a day.  I can try that with her. And what do
> you do with the  naloe? I know 
> it can be put in water, but Lucy has such a
> sensitive system right  now I 
> don't want to do that. Can I syringe it, and if so
> how much?
>  
> Someone had said a series of 3 weekly depo shots
> helped her cat.  Does  
> anyone know how much depo per shot?
>  
> Thanks,
> Michelle
> 

Re: Need advice on trapping sick feral

[janine paton]

Hi Wendy, 

Try the KFC very warm thigh meat torn into small
pieces trick and keep your attitude ho-hum - don't
even think the word trap. 

There's a very cool website called spayandstay.org (I
think) with great  pictures and tips which might help.
 The only thing I don't like is it sounds as if they
are OK with setting the trap and leaving for a while,
which I won't do - I might drive around the block but
usually I'm within earshot.   

Might try catnip too.

Janine

--- wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This might sound elementary, but can you stick some
> sort of feather type toy or string or something else
> he might be interested in playing with in there and
> draw him in that way?  (If he feels like playing).
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Hi. My mom has been feeding a feral for about 2
> > years at her house.  She has 
> > been talking about trapping him/her for a long
> time
> > but hasn't, and hasn't 
> > wanted me to (it seems like the cat may already be
> > neutered, as no visible 
> > testicles and does not act like a female or get
> > pregnant). Anyway, the cat , called 
> > GC (for gray cat) stopped eating two days ago.  He
> > eats a bite or two, shakes 
> > his head, and then just stares at the food. My mom
> > is beside herself. We set 
> > up a large have-a-heart with his sleeping cushion
> in
> > it and some jack mackerel 
> > and clam juice, and put it in front of the box
> where
> > he usually sleeps in the 
> > garage, and covered it.  He would not enter the
> > trap, but slept next to it on 
> > the rug instead.  The problem is that he does not
> > really want food, and is 
> > also very wary, so has no real reason to go into
> the
> > trap.  I have been thinking 
> > of trying to get a net on a pole somewhere (not
> sure
> > where)m but my mom thinks 
> > he is too fast for that anyway.  A drop trap also
> > assumes he will want to eat 
> > something.  We can try to lock him in the garage
> > once he is there, but then 
> > there is still the question of how to get him. He
> > does not let anyone within 10 
> > feet of him.
> > 
> > Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
> > 
> > Michelle (this is what I am doing while waiting
> for
> > Patches to get out of 
> > surgery, at my mom's trying to trap the feral!)
> > 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 

Re: Patches and Bupenephrine (sp?)

[janine paton]

I don't have any FeLV cats here now, but I did have a
FeLv kitten for 6 months here, and I started him on
raw immediately.  He came in pretty sick too.  He
eventually went into a foster home with a positive
room, and he was so much happier with company, but
when here, he ate that raw like there was no tomorrow,
and he had a very excellent coat.  Never had a problem
with t he raw with him at all.  

I also had an FIV cat who was symptomatic when I
trapped him - 8 yrs old, horrible
gingivitis/stomatitis - starving but screamed when he
ate.  I fed him raw, sometimes off my fingers, and
treated him with homeopathy  before he finally
succumbed to cancer 2 yrs later.  But those 2 yrs were
so perfect, and for the most part, he was very
comfortable and very active.  

Before all that, I had an old girl I fostered.  Little
thing, bad temperment, in CRF.  I took away her dry
food, and fed her a premium, HIGH PROTEIN canned food
and she died years later from cancer, not CRF.  I
didn't think she could take raw food at the time, but
I would not hesitate to feed raw to a cat like her
now.  

When I fed raw, I was careful.  I bought the freshest
meat I could find and usually free-range, followed a
diet whether Feline Future, blakkatz, or catnutrition.
 My cats had maybe 1/2 hr to eat it, then all bowls
were picked up, which wasn't a problem because they
all ate it immediately.  No dry food in-between, just
breakfast and dinner.  And hugs between meals.  

No one was fat, everyone had a beautiful coat and good
breath.  Also have one cat with what I think is IBD,
but she never once vomited on raw.  

No kitten diarreah either from all those just-trapped
kittens, and those kittens attacking the raw was
something to be seen!  

Other than that, I'm a long time vegetarian!  But cats
are not. 

Janine



--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  
> Thanks for all the info. If that is true about
> stress making the ph higher,  
> then that could be an explanation with Patches. Her
> teeth are hurting her  
> terribly (so much she is on narcotic shots twice a
> day until her dental surgery  
> on Wednesday).  I thought it was just a bad
> coincidence that she developed  
> the urinary tract problem at the same time as her
> teeth getting really painful,  
> but maybe the pain from her teeth stressed her so
> much it caused her urine ph 
> to  go up.
>  
> Anyway, we are off on our raw adventure. I hope we
> have good luck with  it.  
> I was nervous about feeding raw because they are
> FeLV+ and some people  who 
> feed raw say not to feed it to cats who are
> immune-compromised.  But a  holistic 
> vet answered someone else's question about this on
> the Best Friends  website 
> and said it is ok and probably immune enhancing, so
> I am trying it. Is  
> Benjamin FeLV+? If not, do you feed raw to your
> FeLV+ cat/s?
>  
> Michelle
>  
> In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:08:28 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> I  understand nerves can
> make the Ph higher too and vets = nerves.I
> 
> 
>  
> 

Re: Patches and Bupenephrine (sp?)

[janine paton]

MIchelle, I honestly don't know if the SE effects the
PH, but I'm pretty sure grain does. 

When Benjamin blocked, I got really scared about what
to feed him.  I really didn't like the vet-recommended
food but I needed someone I respected to tell me it
was OK to take the jump and feed him raw, so I sent
Michelle at www.blakkatz.com an email.  She's so smart
about why to feed a raw diet, and she replied, and I
took the jump. And sure enough, all of it makes
perfect (common) sense. 

Benjamin is a tough cat to handle, (biker in a
previous life) and horrible at the vet.  They sedated
him, put in the catheter, IV's, E - collar and next
morning, he had removed EVERYTHING, and was really,
really mad - they were relieved when I took him home -
bad candidate to make a mistake on!

But, it's the idiopathic cystitis I'm more confident
using SE on, not the high Ph kind.  The high Ph and
crystals is what I'd feed the raw diet for tho.  And
once they start eating it, it's a big hit.  We used to
make a huge bowl of it, plop it out to all the dishes,
it was gone in 5 minutes.  The big bonus when you have
a lot of cats to feed, is the litter boxes are so much
easier to clean, so much less smell!!! and much less
waste cuz they are actually using what they are
eating.  And they don't drink as much water either,
because they don't need to, which, as desert animals,
is how they are supposed to be.  

I used to use Feline Future and I think it's fine.  I
eventually followed the whole chicken leg diet, bone
and all through the grinder from catnutrition.org.

I'd also retest his urine at home with those little
pellets in a plastic jar.  I understand nerves can
make the Ph higher too and vets = nerves.   I thought
I heard something about Ph strips once but don't
remember where.  I would think at-home Ph watch would
be a good idea, for peace of mind if nothing else.  

I don't know why the SE wouldn't soothe irritated
membranes even if it was high Ph and crystals and I
think if I go through that again, I would try it.

It just doesn't make any sense that all these cats
would have so many UTI, diabetes, middle age kidney
failure, thyroid, -and-everything-else- problems and
they've been on the planet for thousands years.  Why
would nature make an animal like that?  I think it's
how we feed them. And maybe over vaccinating too?

As far as Evo, the dry food without grain, well, it's
still dry and I still don't like it.  If you pour a
little water over Evo, won't the Evo suck the water
up?  So what happens in a cat's (desert-evolved) body?


Sorry so long, just bugs me! 

Janine



   --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Janine, one question: I use slippery elm often for
> stomach and intestinal  
> upsets, but have never used it for urinary tract
> upsets.  It doesn't make  the 
> ph of the urine more basic? Patches has really high
> ph-- 8.5, much too  basic.  
>  
> Thanks,
> Michelle
> 

Re: Patches and Bupenephrine (sp?)

[janine paton]

Excuse me for coming into this in the middle, so I
hope I'm not repreating anything but if interstitial
cystitis is the one that recurrs, sometimes has blood
in the urine, no bacteria and cyrstals or stone, I use
slippery elm.  Natures Way is one compnay that makes
it and it comes in capsules.  Here's what I do - 

About 1/4 cup hot water, mix in about 1/3 capsule
slippery elm.  Add about 1 Tablespoon of the SE/water
mixture to canned food am and pm for a couple of
days,a then I back off to once a day for a couple more
days.  

Slippery Elm is a classic treatment for soothing
inflammed mucous membranes. It breaks that cycle  of
inflammation, irritation, distress which leads to 
inflammation, irritation, distress.  

I have a can of Waltham's SO that I never used.  One
of my cats was returned for peeing outside the box and
he then blocked, so he DID have crystals, which is
obviously very serious, and slippery elm may have
helped, but not completely cured.His vet wanted me
to put him on the SO, since it's neutral, but I didn't
like the ingredients.  I put the cat (who'd been
adopted for a year and on Science Diet dry food) on a
raw diet.  It's been 2 years, and he's fine.  

The canned SO ingredients, besides the mystery
by-products, has water as its first ingredient. 
That's good as cats have evolved to get most of their
moisture from their prey, in other words, in their
food.  No grain in the ingredients either -  that's
interesting to me because cats are obligate carnivores
and do not have any use for, or any way to assimilate,
grains - I'm thinking that this company knows that the
use of grains in cat food throws their PH off, but
hey, grain is cheap, so it's OK in everything else.   
Canned SO is preserved with BHA/BHT which is toxic to
cats and all other living things.  And the last
ingredient, dl-METHIONINE, is an amino acid that is
naturally ocurring in raw meat, which is nature's
"neutral cat food". 

But I've had 5 or 6 cats with that cystitis that comes
from anxiety, and that's what I use the slippery elm
for.  

Winn Feline Foundation talks about that kind of
cystitis.  And catnutrition.org explains the dry
food/grain thing very well, has a great recipe for raw
food,  lists decent canned food and very helpful links
and references. 

My cats were on a raw diet for 7 or 8 yrs, but I have
too many now and don't have the energy to do it
anymore.  They're on Wellness canned (not dry!) now
and my cat who blocked is still fine.  Not that I
think Wellness is perfect, but better than a lot. 

I get hot about this subject, but I feel so sorry for
some of these cats who go through all that stuff
because of IMO big business and marketing. 

Janine 









--- Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've had Smoky on the s/o food that normalizes urine
> pH since his first episode a year ago.  The 2nd bout
> was the week of Thanksgiving, the 3rd, with struvite
> and bacteria, was Dec 8th and the 4th was on the
> 22nd while he was still on treatment for the
> crystals and bacteria from the previous bout.  With
> this last one, the crystals were gone and there was
> no bacteria at all, yet all the same damn symptoms. 
> I feel so bad for him during these flare-ups because
> he's utterly miserable.  The s/d food cleared up the
> crystals very quickly and we're back to the s/o
> food.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  the raw diet is
> supposed to help with cystitis and struvite
> crystals. I am  about to try it with Lucy for
> chronic loose stools, and am thinking of trying it 
> with Patches after her surgery (knock on wood) for
> her urinary tract  problems.
>  Michelle
>   
>  In a message dated 1/7/2006 3:45:55 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>  Italways amazes me that more vets don't provide
> good pain control forcats.  The only narcotic
> that I know of close to that name is buprenex,   
> but it's delivered orally and is good for 8 ish
> hours. Since the week ofThanksgiving, Smoky has
> had 3 flare-ups of cystitis, only one of which
> showedstruvite and bacteria, the other two,
> interstitial.  hmph.  Anyway,one of the standard
> things we do for him is to give him a fentanyl patch
> tohelp with the pain as well as keeping him
> dosed with the anti-spasmoticacepromazine.  The
> advantage of the patch is that it provides 24/7 pain
>control and does not wear off, which the oral
> meds do.
>  
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
> 
> "My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should
> impress.  Merely living his life, doing what pleases
> him, and making me smile." 
>- Anonymous
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: Fostering Fiv Cat

[janine paton]

Ah,  only a cat would have to put up with a choice
between amputation and being homeless.  

www.catsinternational.org has excellent information on
how to "train" a cat.  They've toned down their
article on declawing for some reason, but still make
some good points in it.  Feline Future also has a good
article on declawing, without sounding hysterical. 

Janine

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  
> In a message dated 1/2/06 1:14:29 A.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> I know a  lot of cats get tossed out on the street
> because people don't like 
> the  scratching
> 
> 
> But Sherry, why don't you try to "educate" this vet
> about all the declawed  
> cats that end up dumped in kill shelters for litter
> box problems???
> Or those cats that are just brought into vets to be
> "routinely" euthanized  
> for inappropriate urination??
> My 2 Maine Coon boys each were brought in, on 2
> separate occasions, 2  
> different owners, within one month of each other to
> be euthanized Peeing  
> outside of box.
> Year+ later, they are both doing fine
> Too damn big to be declawed...Each over 25
> lbs.!!  Whatever were  these 
> people thinking??
> Anyway, since you're volunteering there, maybe you
> can "talk" to this vet  
> about how inhumane declawing is.
> You know, it is illegal in Europe, and even
> California is talking about  
> "outlawing" it.
> It should be illegal.
> It's just cruelty, plain & simple.
> And, Sherry, I know you are against it, I'm just
> having one of my  rants
> Patti
> 
> 

Re: advice needed re "half-adopted" cat

[janine paton]

Kerry, I agree with Gloria - would be surprised if the cat was chipped, at least by the half-adopters.         Can you lure the cat away from the building and out of site of the cameras (for instance - KFC thigh meat, esp warmed so the smell carries might make her walk right into a carrier set behind your car)     Janine[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Hey Kerry-Chances are the kitty has *not* been microchipped by an owner who won't even let her inside when needed - and even if so I doubt if the vet would check it unless you asked him/her to. And if you take her to your vet as your cat, well...I also doubt if talking to the owner again would be useful - might even be counter productive.Sure she can help this kitty -Good luck
 -GloriaAt 12:37 PM 12/20/2005, you wrote:>Hi guys>The same good friend who told me about the kitty with litterbox problems >that was under threat of pts (apparently happily resolved, for now at any >rate) updated me on another situation.>Background:>Misha is a stray that was sort of taken in by the people who work in a >studio at the same business complex where my friend works. I say sort of >because although two of the workers took her to the vet after she was >badly attacked, and although they feed her, they don't take her home at >the weekend: ie no one is actually making Misha their responsibility. In >the summer and fall Misha would be found outside after they had all locked >up and gone home for the weekend. When my friend, distressed by Misha's >situation, offered to try to find Misha a home, the studio owner (who my >friend says seems to be a reasonable,
 decent guy) rejected the proposal, >saying that they had "adopted" her. Recently -- and it is really cold >now--- my friend found Misha miaowing in vain at the studio door to be let >in. My friend knocked on the door, and one of the other workers (not the >owner) opened it. When she explained the cat needed to come in, the >response to her was "Haven't you got anything better to do?">Q--where do we go from here?>If my friend just takes Misha, there's a chance a surveillance camera will >record the action as it's a business location. Also, even if she did that, >when she takes her to the vet, what happens if she's been microchipped by >those people? Is the vet legally/ethically prevented from removing the >chip and replacing it? Obligated to contact the people? My friend would >not be keeping Misha as she's allergic to cats; she'd want my help in >placing her in the shelter where I have a good
 contact. Not ideal but she >would at least be cared for there. However, I'd need to know how to >resolve the chip situation first.>My friend's proposal was to talk to the owner again and try to make him >understand that someone needs to take proper responsibility for the cat. >My feeling was that if she fails, then she will be the first person he >suspects if and when she kidnaps Misha. And the scene could turn ugly.>Even if I were to find and "rescue" the cat when I "happen to be passing >by" at the weekend the microchip Q still arises. (We don't know if she's >microchipped -- is there a way for a layperson to scan her without vet >involvement?)>All input/info welcome on how Misha gets the care she deserves---I've no >experience in this field---yet. But I know some of you heroes do.>Kerry  

Re: cat question

[janine paton]

Hi Janet, 

That simple act of rescue can certainly become
complicated.

I joined this list months ago after trapping a litter
of feral positive kittens.  I was looking for sound
advice, which I got, and I should really sign off the
list now since I can't keep up with the volume of
emails but I hang on because this is the most
sensitive, caring, THINKING list of people who love
cats, so you couldn't have landed in a better place.  

That said, having seen too many hard-luck moms
actually look grateful to have someone take over the
care of yet another litter, I spay pregnant females in
precarious positions for the mother's sake and the
fact that there are already so many healthy, homeless
kittens (and cats) out there already.  Not a perfect
answer, but one that makes sense to me, for now. 

Janine

 

--- wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Janet,
> 
> I have to agree with everything that Nina said. 
> Having the cat spayed would probably be the humane
> thing to do.  My cat Cricket was born with Feline
> Leukemia; his mother had it.  I would like to urge
> you
> to consider keeping this cat if you are at all
> attached to it, and caring for it yourself.  FELV+
> positive is not necessarily a death sentence; many
> cats throw off the virus after they've been exposed,
> expecially those with good health care and a lot of
> love.  FELV+ cats are hard to place, and many times,
> are euthanised because a lot of vets recommend it. 
> But we do not agree with this policy.  These kitties
> deserve a happy life being loved just as much as a
> cat
> that isn't FELV+.  Cricket lived 4 and a half years,
> and probably would have lived longer had he not been
> stressed out by a house full of Hurricane Rita
> evacuees for a week, when the virus kicked in and he
> became anemic.  Because he was born FELV+, his life
> expectancy was a lot less than he actually lived. 
> Many kittens die by 6 months because their immune
> systems are so weak, and even more by two years old.
> 
> No one can make this decision for you, but learn a
> little more before you make the decision and I wish
> you luck.  Let us know what you decide.  I'll keep
> you
> in my prayers.
> 
> :)
> Wendy
> 
> --- Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Janet,
> > As Terri and Tonya have already mentioned, many of
> > us mix adult negs 
> > that have been vaccinated with pos.  It's a
> > judgement call and of course 
> > no matter what our success rate in doing this is,
> > there's no safer 
> > protection for your elderly cat than to not mix
> them
> > together.  That's 
> > what most vets will tell you.  Being that your
> > current kitty is older, I 
> > might not mix them together either.  That said, if
> I
> > were in this 
> > situation, I'd figure God sent her to me for a
> > reason and I'd personally 
> > dive in with both feet and do whatever I could to
> > save her and her kittens.
> > 
> > I am all too familiar with the heartache involved
> > with pos kittens.  My 
> > experience with felv came when my husband and I
> > found a box of kittens 
> > that were just 2.5 weeks old.  Because they were
> so
> > young, I assume the 
> > mother succumbed to felv from the stress of having
> > them and the people 
> > who abandoned them didn't know how to care for
> them.
> >  Why else would 
> > they take them from their mother at that age?  We
> > lost 2 of our babies 
> > when they were about 6 mos old and two more before
> > their 2nd birthday.  
> > The other two are doing fine and are reaching 2.5
> > yrs.  Their lives were 
> > filled with love and concern and I'm not a bit
> sorry
> > that I made the 
> > commitment to try and save them. 
> > 
> > Janet, you have some tough decisions ahead of you.
> 
> > You don't know me, 
> > so you might think I'm a monster for even bringing
> > this up, but given 
> > what you've said in your post...  It's going to be
> > hard enough to place 
> > the mother, if she's healthy.  I can't say what I
> > would do in your 
> > place.  I'm not you and I have no idea what you
> have
> > to contend with.  
> > If someone steps up very quickly to adopt her,
> > knowing she's pregnant, 
> > well that's a different story altogether.  If you
> > just found out she's 
> > pregnant, I'm supposing she's not too far along. 
> > Under the 
> > circumstances you describe, if you have her
> spayed,
> > the kittens would be 
> > aborted at the same time and praying that she
> > remains asymptomatic after 
> > the stress of the operation, you might have a
> chance
> > of placing her.  I 
> > couldn't bear to think about what might be in
> store
> > for those babies if 
> > they lose their mother, and don't have a human
> > willing to step in and 
> > care for them.  My 2 cents on the harshness of
> > reality.  Now, what I'm 
> > praying for is that you've fallen in love with
> this
> > little stray and 
> > you'll want to adopt her yourself.  If so, there
> are
> > many wonderful, 
> > knowledgeable people on this list who will suppo

Re: OT: Help ! ringworm in kittens

[janine paton]

Yes, please don't use Tea Tree Oil on or around cats. 
And if it's a small amount in a product (like Halo
makes an earwash that has T.T. listed in it) I won't
use it either because I wonder what effect it has on
their liver.  

Janine

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> DO NOT USE TEA TREE OIL ON  CATS
> 

Re: Question about Euthanasia and my Grace

[janine paton]

Hi all, 

I'm going through this same thing and am so grateful
for all the experience and calmness on this subject. 
And Nina, I don't feel so crazy since reading how you
are feeling the same way.

My cat MacKenzie is not positive, but he is dying.  
His breathing is mostly quieter now, but very shallow.
 He's not hiding at all but has picked a spot on our
bedroom floor under a window.  He's stopped eating,
and stopped drinking too I think.He can't really
walk more than one or two steps. 

My husband and I had this strong feeling that at least
for now he wants to be here but it's a little tough to
sit with. 

 MacKenzie has been a homeopathic patient for the 3
yrs he's been with us, so that's how were handling it
for now too. 

Janine 

 Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My Beloved Group,
> First of all, I'm sorry I haven't been able to
> participate fully in the 
> group this last couple of weeks.  I love you all,
> but for the last 
> couple of days, I haven't even been able bring
> myself to read the 
> posts.  I'm physically and emotionally exhausted by
> Grace and my last 
> efforts to bring her back to health.  Yesterday, I
> finally resigned 
> myself to thinking of our time together as 'death
> bed vigil'.  Those of 
> you that know me, know that I pray all your babies
> are safe and healthy, 
> and those that are losing, or have lost the battle;
> my love is with 
> you.  I don't know what I would have done without
> the love and support 
> of this group.  You have been a Godsend to me and my
> sweet fur angels.
> 
> Yesterday morning Gracie "told" me she does not want
> to stay.  Among 
> other signs, I was syringe feeding her and she
> refused to swallow.  I'm 
> trying my best to make peace with her decision.  I
> know you understand.  
> She hasn't eaten on her own for a long time now and
> she's skin and 
> bones.  She spent a nice peaceful day, and I did my
> best to just "be 
> with her".   During the afternoon she made it clear
> that she didn't want 
> to be sung to, or touched.  It's so hard on me to
> watch her pull away.  
> At one point, she seemed a bit agitated so I ground
> up a tiny bit of 
> Valium and gave it to her in water.  She was so
> relaxed she even did a 
> stretch-semi roll out on the patio in the sun.  She
> did something that 
> startled me, and got my hopes up again.  (I just
> can't stop believing in 
> miracles).  I was giving the dogs treats and she was
> laying on the 
> couch.  Well, we have this thing Grace and I. 
> Whenever the dogs get 
> treats she'd come bounding over the barrier and
> expect one too.  When 
> she saw me giving the dogs treats this afternoon,
> she jumped off the 
> couch.  I started to cry, because I thought, there's
> no way she's going 
> to take a treat.  I put one in front of her anyway
> and you could have 
> knocked me over with a sigh.  It took her a minute
> to decide to eat it, 
> but she not only ate that one, but 3 more.  Then she
> ate 3 or 4 pieces 
> of kibble!  My hopes were short lived though.
> 
> I've been up with her most of the night.  She still
> doesn't want my 
> attention.  She doesn't even want me to look at her,
> it's breaking my 
> heart to say goodbye, and I guess it may be making
> it harder for her to 
> go, although that is not my intention.  It's not
> like I don't want her 
> to leave her body, I do.  I want her suffering to be
> over.  Yesterday, 
> when I knew it was time, I called my Internist's
> office to see if Dr. 
> Ortega would be willing to help her cross.  Grace
> has always liked Dr. 
> Ortega, and I thought she would be calmest with her.
>  Well, my Internist 
> isn't going to be in the office until Friday.  It
> doesn't seem possible 
> that Grace will still be here by then.  My stance
> has always been, that 
> when I know it's the end, when I know that the
> chance of a recovery 
> after treatment isn't possible, then it's time to
> help them cross.  Even 
> though Grace is peaceful, (she just lays on her side
> and breathes 
> shallow, but relaxed breaths), I have a hard time
> letting nature take 
> it's course.  It's arrogant of me, but I can't stand
> seeing her like 
> this.  I'm also so worried about her being in pain,
> when I look in her 
> eyes, she doesn't seem in pain, but she doesn't seem
> like herself 
> either.  I wouldn't mind vacant, but it's almost
> like she's... not quite 
> angry, more like annoyed to still be here.
> 
> Just to let you know...  Over the past week or so, I
> think I may have 
> mentioned it, we've been following an extensive
> homeopathic regime with 
> the help of a practitioner named Darla Palmer. 
> While it didn't save 
> Grace, it did bring her back into her body, and for
> brief glorious 
> moments, back to me.  It was such a joy to see the
> Grace I know and love 
> shining out of her eyes again.
> 
> Anyway, here's my question:  Can anyone tell me how
> difficult it is to 
> put an animal to sleep in an emaciated condition? 
> Of course, I

Re: laser toy

[janine paton]

Hi Kerry,  

Most of my cats love the laser.  No matter how quietly
I try to take it out of it's hiding spot, some of them
will actually wake up immediately and come running.  I
find it amazing that they know the difference between
the noise the chain on the laser makes and dozens of
others similar noises.

I used to worry about it teasing them also, until one
cat, whenever I took my finger off the switch, came
over and smacked my arm, looking straight into my
eyes, until I turned it back on - then she was back to
pretending it was really something to chase.

And another will just stop and look over his shoulder
at me as if to say Aw, come one, turn it back on! 
(and this one I don't consider to be the brightest of
the bunch )

So, I decided then they must know, they're just such
great pretenders. 

Janine
--- "MacKenzie, Kerry N."
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Glad someone mentioned the laser toy--I do use it
> occasionally because
> it's the one thing that never fails to get my 2
> quarantined cats moving.
> But the reason I only use it occasionally is that I
> worry about the
> frustration element-they think there's something to
> catch but they can
> never succeed. Ditto those cat videos showing birds
> etc, with all the
> sound effects. I used to play them, but worried
> about the cats becoming
> depressed. I'd love to hear other opinions. Is there
> any reliable info
> out there on how chasing intangible objects affects
> cats? If I thought
> they were really ok, I'd use them more often. Kerry
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Barb Moermond
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 2:51 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: Bandy and supplements
> 
> 
> I would be cautious in using laser pointers as toys
> -
> I know they love it and I bring mine out a couple
> times a year, but it can make some kitties go a
> little
> nuts.  One of the clinic cats where I take my boys
> lost it after having played with the laser toy and
> kept looking for the red dot to the point she was
> attacking other kitties.  No more lasers and she was
> on meds for a while but is OK now.  Just something
> to
> keep in mind!
> 
> --- maimaipg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > My alternative vet recommends transfer factor and
> > MacroForce for boosting the immune system.  The
> > active ingredient in Macro Force is available in
> > other brands.  This just happens to be the easiest
> > to get in my area of the country.  She also uses
> > laser (as has me use a regular laser pointer) on
> > various points on the cat's body.  It acts sort of
> > like acupuncture.  You would have to get someone
> to
> > show you the points or try to figure it out from
> the
> > internet.  Keep the light out of the eyes.  But
> > enjoy running the light in circles around the cat.
> 
> > Mine love to chase the little red dot they can't
> > catch.  For $20 it is a wonderful toy even if you
> > can't figure the alternative med stuff out.   It
> > stimulates their interest and gives them exercise
> > that has to help their morale.
> > - Original Message - 
> >   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> >   Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 10:11 AM
> >   Subject: Re: Bandy and supplements
> > 
> > 
> >   I do not think that any supplements will help
> with
> > the anemia directly unless it is iron anemia,
> which
> > is very rare in cats and probably is not the case
> > with him.  I would put him on 500 mg per day of
> > Lysine, split into two doses, and a multi-vitamin
> > supplement (like Pet Tinic, which does have iron)
> > and maybe switch on and off between echinacea and
> > astragalus every week. I would mix them into baby
> > food twice per day in small doses and let him eat
> > them.  People also rave about Transfer Factor,
> which
> > I have not tried yet, so maybe that as well. I
> would
> > start with one at a time so if he does not want to
> > eat the baby food you will know which supplement
> he
> > does not like.
> >   Michelle
> 
> 
> Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
> 
> "My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should
> impress.  Merely
> living his life, doing what pleases him, and making
> me smile." 
>- Anonymous
> 
> 
>   
>   
>
__
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief
> effort.
> http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
> 
> 
> 
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above
> as to tax matters was neither written nor intended
> by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be
> used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the
> purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be
> imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or
> refers to any such tax advice in promoting,
> marketing or recommending a partnership or other
> entity, investment plan or arrangement to any
> taxpayer, then (i) the advice was wr

Re: Jen----Nutrical

[janine paton]

I have a cat who is negative, but he doesn't want to
eat either.  
My homeopathic vet recommends a supplement called
Amino B-Plex.  
It has amino acids, B vitamins to stimulate the
appetite, potassium, iron, a few other things that
aren't  familiar to me.  It's a liquid, and they seem
to like it.  You just squirt it in their mouth.  

It doesn't have sodium benzoate, which is a
preservative that isn't OK for cats (even tho a lot of
cat products use it)

I don't know how high calorie it is, but I am
wondering how many calories are in a tablespoon of
nutrical and what that actually translates to for a
cat?  

The website listed on the bottle is www.naturaldvm.com
if anyone is interested. 

Janine 

  
--- Elizabeth Paz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> I've never heard of Nutrical, is it a food
> supplement?  This sounds very 
> good and quite easy to give, at this point I am
> willing to try anything.  
> Thank you so much, I will be picking up a tube
> tomorrow.
> 
> 
style='FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,sans-serif'> color=#A0C6E5 
> size=1>
> From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:  
> felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo:  
> felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: 
> Re: RE: 
> Lisa--NutricalDate:  Wed, 31 Aug 2005
> 12:16:34 
> -0500>This is a good way to administer
> Nutrical, if it hasn't 
> been suggested>already!  It's a high-calorie
> gel that comes in a tube 
> (can also be>found at Petsmart, etc.)...just
> put some on your finger 
> and scrape>against the roof of kitty's
> mouth...I've also put some on 
> paws so that>they're forced to lick it
> off...but you can't put too 
> much as cat's have>a tendency to want to
> shake it off before they 
> lick it off...I've got>splatterings of
> Nutrical all over the 
>
kitchen!>>>>"But
> 
> if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To
> me, you will 
> be>unique in all the world. To you, I shall
> be unique in all the 
> world; You>become responsible, forever, for
> what you have 
> tamed..." --Antoine
> de>Saint-Exupéry>>"If you 
> talk to the animals they will talk with you and you
> will know>each 
> other.  If you do not talk to them you will not know
> them, and 
> what>you do not know you will fear. What one
> fears one 
> destroys." --Chief
> Dan>George>>- Original 
> Message ->From: Hideyo Yamamoto 
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Date:
> Wednesday, August 31, 
> 2005 11:13 am>Subject: RE:
> Lisa>> > Hi, Lisa, are 
> you using syringe?  I have one cat, Leo who
> just> > hated 
> to> > be fed with syringe and everthing
> could come out from his 
> mouth ---> >> > My vet also told
> me a different way of 
> feeding with your finger - you> > take a
> pallatble food like baby 
> food or cannned food, and put some on> >
> the tip of your pointing 
> finger . you put the food side up (the> >
> oppositeside of where 
> your nail is), and put it into his mouth -->
> > rub against> 
> > the top of his palate -> >>
> > How is he doing 
> today?> > -Original
> Message-> > From: 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Elizabeth> 
> > PazSent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:11
> PM> > To: 
> felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > Subject:
> Hideyo> 
> >> >> > Thank you for your
> kind words, I will keep 
> trying.  It just that he> > struggles so
> much that I worry about 
> getting him all stressed out.  He> >
> does> > put up one 
> heck of a struggle.  His head is so strong and it
> moves> > 
> so> > quickly.> >> >
> But I will keep trying.  
> He was so ill  in 03 that we did not think
> he> > would> 
> > make it but we worked so hard on getting him so
> healthy and 
> chubby.> > butthis> > is so
> different with the food.  I 
> can easily give him his pills, but> >
> this> > food 
> stuff, what can I say, this is just tearing my heart
> up.> 
> >> > Thank You for support.>
> > Lisa> 
> >> >> >> >>
> > 
 style='PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
> BORDER-LEFT:> > 
> #A0C6E5> > 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
> 0px'> > 
>
style='FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,sans-serif'>

> > 
> color=#A0C6E5> > size=1>> >
> From:  
> "Hideyo Yamamoto">
> > 
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:>
> 
> >
>
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
To:>
> 
> > 
>

Subject:
> 
>   RE: Won't> > EatPlease 
> Help
Date:  Tue, 30 Aug
> 2005 17:20:06> 
> > -0600
>Lisa, I can
> emphasize your pain - my 
> Felv positive,> > Ginger> > 
> stopped
>eating for over a week a
> several months> 
> > ago.
>
>She is
> already a very small 
> girl, and did not want> > her> >
> to lose any 
> more
>weight - so as Nina mentioned,
> I assisted> > 
> her to> > eat> > with syringe
> every
>day 
> with baby food and liver shake> > 
> -
>
>I will be
> praying that your kitty will 
> bounce back> > very> > soon - so
> 
> stay
>calm (I know it's hard, but do
> your best) and> 
> > talk