Michael wrote:
So, according to Landauer, and many scientists who have read his
work, the correspondence of information with the experienced, physical
world is definite.
End Michael.
Unfortunately, Landauer did not follow up his brilliant insight. He says: no
logical relation without objects to
John Holgate wrote:
The relationship between the phenomenon information and the material world
is what information science IS YET TO DISCOVER. (emphasis added by K.)
End John.
This is obviously false.
The relationship between the phenomenon information and the material world
is what information
Title: Yes, indeed there is consensus
Yes, indeed there is
consensus. Let me go thru Arne’s points about the functioning of the
brain so that we can deepen the consensus.
Arne:
I will also take the opportunity to say that my point
with formulating the realist's dilemma was to point out
Title: Yes, indeed there is consensus
Dear Andrei,
Let me answer to your questiona:
> If I follow your argument, I should again come
> to picture of OBJECTIVE REALITY and human beings
creating models of this
> reality
A system of counting does not reflect "objective
reality" in a str
Dear friends,
We have a wonderful measuring instrument, our number system, which is lovely
and reliable, tautologic, in itself exact. Our only problem is that if we
lay this measurement instrument over the thing we measure it with, we cannot
understand the measurement results.
Either we say that
Dear Stan,
In your last posting, you said:
> SS: Of course, the origin of the genetic system is arguably the most
>outstanding problem facing natural science. It seems that, other than the
>(to me) unconvincing RNA World idea, there is no compelling model of it.
The model that the RNA (tog
Dear Fis,
the discussion appears to move in a very interesting direction, connecting
the experiences learnt by the kid with the subject the kid learned. How this
subtle connection influences our concepts about Nature is a central
philosophical problem.
In my contributions in the last few years, t
Dear Colleagues,
the discussion about complexity leads us back to our basic assumptions. The
core point appears to be, how we perceive a): the world, and b): what we
think about the world, and c): how a) and b) fit together. This can be
formalised into a) how we feel, b) how we think, c) how w
Let me add to Igor's points about instability:
"Redundancy/diversity, on
the other hand, is essential ... It creates informational entropy and gives
a momentum to
material/energy entropy production ..."
that
redundancy/diversity DOES NOT GET CREATED it isd always there, but we choose
to neglect it
ere - it evolves - .
Best
Igor
- Original Message -
*From:* karl javorszky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* fis@listas.unizar.es
*Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:00 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural
Complexity
Let me add to Igor's points about instab
Dear FIS,
Pedro is - as is his habitude - too modest again. He has through 15 years of
patient work nurtured into being a discussion forum about the fundametals of
information, as a general, basic, philosophical topic.
To my knowledge, this endeavour is unique. Even more startling appears to
some
--
Loet Leydesdorff
Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR),
Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam.
Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-20- 525 3681
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
--
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*On
Let me support Pedro's main theses:
Pedro: we live in a period comparable to that as Zero was evolved.
Yes, we do. The concept is unusual, expresses a feeling that we can share,
has no clear understanding yet, is in some ways revolutionary.
Pedro: The Zero as a concept lies behind all numbers. Its
The model proposed for numeric treatment of information answers following
points raised by Shannon and Logan:
Logan:
> The inspiration for adopting the word entropy in information theory comes
> from the close resemblance between Shannon's formula and the very similar
> formula from thermodynamic
Dear Pedro and Colleagues,
some progress has been made in the translation table between 3 times 1_of_4
in a sequence and 20 resp. 21 logical markers being matched to one the
other.
The next task appears to be to find out the iterations between introns and
extrons.
Would you please advise me, where
The conceptualisation of the "info problem" has made several steps forward.
In fact, the concept behind "information" appears to be transmitted by the
diversity properties of a symbol.
We traditionally disregard the diversity property of symbols in the way of
thinking we are used to call "rational
Dear Colleagues,
solving the puzzles of our generation certainly requires a co-ordinated
effort from many sciences. Research into the functions of the human brain
has unearthed some perceptional artefacts of humans. These methods of
perceptions are optimised for the tasks of biologic entities - as
The key word is CONTRASTING. Whatever it is we discuss, we contrast it to
that we do not discuss. Therein lies a great danger and opportunity.
Contrasting that what is a part of our knowledge with that which we do not
know we can get used to the idea of foreground and background. We utilise
trhe fo
Question:
"What, exactly, is the hypothesis?"
Answer (proposal):
We state, as a hypothesis I. - Basics - , that:
a) human knowledge arises from simplifications of neural impressions into
communicable patterns;
b) specific communicable patterns arise regularly in temporal connections
with specific n
Dear Colleagues,
it appears that the basic mechanism of the regulation at work in genetics
has been found and the logic can be explained and made quite understandable
- even for those who believe themselves to be challenged in numerical
approaches.
There is Big Money in this, as the explanation a
There was some truth in this epic. The Spanish were more elegant and
flexible. The group ballet coordination was lighter. They deserved it well.
Bravo, Espana!
2010/7/12 Pedro C. Marijuan
> Dear FIS colleagues,
>
> More than a soccer match? Please, have a glance at the chronicle below
> by Chri
Dear FIS,
the discussion here is excitingly interesting from the standpoint of formal
logic. The points that one may comment on regard:
tautology
structure
totality of structures interacting with one another
epistemological constructions
relationship be
Question:
how closely a theory of information must be wedded to physics.
Answer:
Physics is a comprehensive model of Nature. If Nature obeys 1 (one)
comprehensive set of interrelated logical facts, then physics' partial
results (like optics, thermodynamics, electricity, solid state mechanics,
etc.
Dear colleagues,
the term "string" as mentioned by Joseph triggers a comment.
We can use the term "string" like any of the terms "sqrt()", "sin()","route
between()", etc. The term "string" does have a solid concept behind it, but,
alas, it needs more arguments. A string is to be observed to conne
Dear Fis,
one can use a stable model used by neurology and psychology to come closer
to understanding how our brain works. This can help to formulate the
thoughts Pedro mentioned being obscure.
One pictures the brain as a quasi-meteorological model of an extended world
containing among others swam
On the difference between natural numbers and theories:
The tool offered for use is based on natural numbers. It is devoid of any
interpretations aside the interpretation relating to common axes that are
rectangular. It is pleasing that Stan sees many ways to use the
interdependence among natural
On Information
Please allow me to respectfully disagree with many of you. The term
'information' can well be defined by stringent logical-mathematical methods.
It will, however, need agreement on the calssification of the kinds of
information.
In preparation to an answer to the questions formulat
Dear Qiao Tian-qing,
(I hope that this address is both respectful and friendly).
Thank you for an interesting statement and the opportunity to discuss in a
deeper fashion the term "information". Our differences are not unbridgeable:
you say that the term "information" can not be given a precise o
On Information Theory - Interested in Contributing or Chairing the Session
Dear Pedro and Colleagues,
let me propose a session on Information Theory. We could
* define the order concept
* define information being a specific order being (not being) the case
* show ways of numerical assignments to
Limits of Glue
Joe:...that existence and energy are primitive and numbers something derived.
Yes of course. We know that Nature exists and has manifold properties.
(Thomas Aquinas).
We speak about our experiences with Nature. To make certain that we
understand each other clearly, we use words wit
Dear All,
Thanks to Pedro for his remarks about our collaboration which now
extends some 16 years. At that time, I was terminating a job as senior
systems analyst with the IAEA and took up again a question I was
addressing after doing my PhD in psychology and statistics. The
question was: “How is
Dear James,
thank you for the widening of this discussion.
Order and Information
Let us not close this session on the historical perspective of the
modern concept of Science yet. Loet’s thoughtful remarks about the
relation between information and order bring us back to some deep
problems they w
Dear All,
the contrasting views between Loet’s understanding of order as an
implication of information and of the alternative which deducts information
from order are in no real opposition. Rather they reflect differing
perspectives, like the tradition of e.g. measuring a room from a middle
poin
Dear All,
please let me contribute to the summary of this session. Of the
multi-faceted work we have done, I'd like to touch but two points: a.
applicability and code, b. time.
To have a businessman in our group is a blessing. We are reminded that
science is not only a pastime but should bring so
Very Unfrequently Asked Questions
We have proposed a rethink of the procedure of additions. We state
that setting a1+b1=c=a2+b2 with a1#a2 (that is, saying that between
2+5 and 3+4 there is no real difference and ignoring this difference
carries no costs and working on this difference is a waste o
Dear Colleagues,
taking the risk of repeating an idea that has been advanced here in FIS a
number of times, I'd like to offer answers to Michhel's questions:
Michel: " Now, I ask you the following: please can you provide an extremely
simple example (the most simple you could imagine) of situation
On the definition of the term "information"
Michel asks the group on its evaluation of the collected contributions to
his question "Who can give a short definition to << in this situation,
information is...>>?".
This runs the danger of mixing up two different subjects:
1. the stuff itself
2. the
On the existence of the term "information"
Let me pick up the the idea expressed by a colleague that "... in fact, such
a thing as 'information' does not exist at all" (sorry, not a verbatim
citation).
This is in fact true. The idea can be better understood if one states: "such
a thing as a 'circ
On Form Conveyed By Data
Among the terms in the question "form conveyed by data" the term "data" is
the least ambiguous.
We will doubtlessly agree that 1,2,3,... are "data"
Whether a sequence "123456...16" is in a different form to a sequence e.g.
"42315...11" is a subject of semantics.
We know
Dear Loet and Jerry,
let me comment on your interesting exchange:
you write:
one studies specific arrangements and configurations. (I mentioned graphs.)
However, the red herring emerges when these configurations are made the
subject of "information theory" (in contrast to "informatics") without
f
Dear Friends,
these last months my role in the group dynamics in Fis has been a
destructive one. Ever so often, my contribution had an irritating effect,
as the idea has been proposed that the current discussion is in itself
useless, because the underlying concepts are inexact, due to a coarse
rou
Dear FIS,
Let me systematise the requirements and conditions raised so far and then
discuss a proposal:
Recapitulation:
(maybe there will be a possibility to attach attachments to the postings.
The following should be an attachment, where I recapitulate the points
previous speakers have rais
Hi All,
the talk here going about a possible curriculum, I have assembled one. This
is of course only an outline but should give a realistic idea about the
half-steps needed to grasp what we understand under "information". I'd look
forward working on this project. Asking for your kind tolerance, I
Dear Colleagues,
Let me join the supporters of Gyuri. Indeed there is a need for theories,
as the expectations one maintains while conducting an experiment are
nothing other but the neurological representation of a theory, irrespective
of the subject knowing it or attributing his decisions to "int
Bruno:
Theories needs theories do be interpreted, except that we must start from
simple agreements, on elementary arithmetic for example, to exploit that
direction.
End Bruno Begin Karl
Also, we need an agreement what to concentrate on while the communication
is made. We have agreed to use elementa
Step Two of *Learn to Count in Twelve Easy Steps*
*What happened previously:*
Step 1.:
We have introduced additional describing aspects of the logical sentence
a+b=c. Next to a,b,c, we also make use of u=b-a, k=b-2a, t=2b-3a, q=a-2b,
s=17-(a+b|c), w=2a-3b. For a graphical presentation, see:
http
ase of
understanding, we have coloured the clans differently, mod(4).
2012/12/4 Karl Javorszky
> Step Four of *Learn to Count in Twelve Easy Steps*
>
> *What happened previously:*
>
> Step 1.:
>
> We have introduced additional describing aspects of the logical sentence
>
Step Seven of *Essay On Order* (formerly: Learn to Count in *Twelve Easy
Steps*)
What has happened previously:
Step Six:
During a reordering, elements change place. In most reorderings, the
procedure involves more than one or two elements; these stay resp. exchange
places directly. Usually, the
Step Eleven of* Learn to Count in Twelve Easy Steps*
What has happened previously (pls. see http://32o2m99e.utawebhost.at)
*Step Ten*
The circumstances under which Genetics can take place are regulated by
order rules that govern both places to [kinds of] amounts and [kinds of]
amounts to places.
As Krassimir has pointed out, the term "information" is inseparable from
the human utilising (communicating, sending/receiving/evaluating) the
information.
To say "Information is that difference that makes a difference" is like
saying "Cookies are what produce an excellent sensation in the mouth"
would newer be uncovered. We co-produce
> phenomena through the interaction with nuomenon.
>
> Physical nuomenon (unlike the concept of nuomenon) can be seen as an
> inexhaustible source of possible phenomena.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gordana
>
Hope to see you at the NIT conference.
Karl
___
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Cointinuing Bob's discourse on language and words, the next step was done
by Wittgenstein, who said that as tokens, words can be represented by
numbers. This is a resurrecting of Pythagoras' statement, that Nature is
representable by natural numbers and their harmonies.
It is important to keep in m
y N Salthe
> Kark, all -- I have question about this numbers <--> words concept. For
> users of a given language much an be communicated by connotation as well as
> denotation. It seems to me that the matching of numbers to words would not
> encompass this -- would it? As w
Raquel,
the individual being included in various groups is a serious question of
combinatorics and number theory. In an abstract fashion, one may pose the
question as follows:
"having n distinguishable objects, we start a process of assigning some
symbols to them. Symbols that are assigned to all
Dear FIS,
welcome new colleagues. Pedro has over the years built a scientific
community that is a pleasant and awakening environment for the
participants.
There has always been a tension between the empirical and the abstract in
FIS. The name of the setup is "Foundations of Information Science".
Individuality
The abstract and the concrete fight, because the abstract cannot presently
picture the concrete flexibly and exactly enough.
Connecting to the main thema of this session, individuality can be used to
clarify the tension. A person, belonging to many subgroups in his universe,
is not ea
The problem of what is information goes even deeper than what we call it.
The DNA has been mentioned. We discuss what the DNA does, and that is
neither information nor message, being one part of a tautology.
Sender and receiver are first of all in a logical relation with each other.
It is secondar
Thanks for pointing out that my beliefs and methods re biological use of
carriers of symbols (bioinformatics, theoretical genetics) appear presently
idiosyncratic, that is, unique, independent, individual, not shared by
many.
The belief is that biology works as rational as classical mechanics and
Dear Joseph and FIS,
Let me add that this forward-backward duality has been introduced to
philosophy by Heraclit with his "upoward and downward flow". (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus#Panta_rhei.2C_.22everything_flows.22
).
The concept has a solid and robust definition under the name of
Dear Colleagues,
good that FIS is up again after this computer glitch.
It is encouraging, that since the resurrection the focus of FIS appears to
be sharpened. Let me quote Pridi: “… brainstorming session that would
include pure researchers and application oriented guys … … business people
may
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> good that FIS is up again after this computer glitch.
>
> It is encouraging, that since the resurrection the focus of FIS appears
to be sharpened. Let me quote Pridi: “… brainstorming session that would
include pure researchers and application oriented guys … … business p
The bookkeeping exactitude refers to the number and kind of logical
alternatives.
If the DNA is such-and-such, the cell cannot be outside the logical limits
that are the accounting equivalents of such-and-such.
If the cell is such-and-such, the DNA cannot be otherwise than in a form
that is the log
Dear Colleaugues,
The "bookkeeping" or "accounting" approach to theoretical genetics is the
application of the simple principle that one deals with a finite amount of
logical entities, which are numerically equivalent according to some
arithmetic rules.
In business accounting, the equivalence app
dear Wolfgang,
as indicated here in the list some 2-3 months ago, I 'd like to organise a
workshop.
Its title would be:
Explaining the Combinatorics behind the Translation of the Information
Content of the DNA by using Advanced Arithmetic
Would you please make it possible for participants to indi
calls for papers and else.
you might write a call for papers.
ciao
wolfgang
Am 06.10.2014 um 16:20 schrieb Karl Javorszky :
dear Wolfgang,
as indicated here in the list some 2-3 months ago, I 'd like to organise a
workshop.
Its title would be:
Explaining the Combinatorics behind the Tra
Workshop on the Combinatorics of Genetics
within ISIS Summit Vienna 2015
The ISIS Summit is organized by Wolfgang Hofkirchner, to whom I keep being
thankful for publishing in TripleC, in 2004, an article on the logical
relations between temporally longitudinal and transversal readings of
symbol
Workshop on the Combinatorics of Genetics, Fundamentals
In order to prepare for a fruitful, satisfying and rewarding workshop in
Vienna, let me offer to potential participants the following main
innovations in the field of formal logic and arithmetic:
1) Consolidating contradictions:
The
Very sympathetic on the concept of travelers is that the basic model is
that of a dynamic system, as opposed to a Newtonian one, wherein everything
stays put or keeps on continuing as having been instructed to do. For the
bourgeois, the travelers have a connotation of mystery. They follow paths
tha
efs”.
Karl
2014-10-22 15:59 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal :
>
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 13:44, Karl Javorszky wrote:
>
> Workshop on the Combinatorics of Genetics, Fundamentals
>
>
> In order to prepare for a fruitful, satisfying and rewarding workshop in
> Vienna, let me offer to
Dear Friends,
the goal of our interactions is to
a) Learn from each other,
b) Instruct each other,
c) Move forward the cause of science,
d) Move forward the cause of one’s own,
e) Feel good.
Each of us is an individual, so there will be individual weights to the
f
Dear Dr. Isiegas,
let me offer some proposals as to the underlying concepts that
differentiate treatment of information in the technical and in the biologic
understanding.
The neuronal process is both sequential and commutative: commutative in the
sense that chemical reactions take place concurre
Well now i can't withstand commenting on phenomenolgy, symbols and time.
This is too much screaming for formalisation.
The three concepts mentioned above can be abstracted into the mother of all
symbols, the collection of natural numbers. Let us pose the question of
interrelatedness of time conce
Gyuri Darvas' Symmetry Festival is a perfect place to exchange ideas about
how the many aspects treated in FIS can be understood in a neutral and
interpersonally portable manner.
Pedro's department could give a second try modeling biological processes by
observing groups that can be built on natura
Dear FIS Colleagues,
1. Are the facts complicated or is our interpretation of the facts
complicated?
again, the discussion centres on interpretations of Nature. How do we
picture some processes of Nature – like, specifically, the workings of
genetics and biology generally -, and which explan
Dear Lou,
Thanks for the invitation to elaborate on the concept of quantum and how it
connects to Wittgenstein’s taboo words and information.
We may have problems understanding the concept of a quantum because the
idea appears to be non-expressible by rational, logical speech. The grammar
of log
n is the structure
> of this collection/superposition of possibilities.
> It does not confuse possibility with actuality then the model has clarity.
> Of course it is a mystery why this model works as well as it does!
> Best,
> Lou K.
>
> On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:23 PM, Karl Javorszk
In the present Interlude after the session chaired by Lou on Symmetry and
before the coming one, allow me to enlarge on something Bruno raised.
Bruno wrote:
*Then this confirms the "computationalist theory of everything", which is
given by any formalism, like Robinson Arithmetic (the rest i
not in Italian but in full concordance with what Rico ha dito:
information as a concept lies behind all and each of the ways of looking at
the world. Whatever the picture, it has a background to it.
Could it be that a description of the background is common to each and all
of the pictures one makes
Just a small detail on the information density of food (air, water, sensory
input, etc.) in medicine:
The DNA has a high informational value for the organism. Can it be said
that poison has also an informational value?
Can the de-constructive effect of a substance quantified based on the same
sem
Dear FIS,
now there is a voice discussing the concepts and methods of counting. This
is highly encouraging.
Taking together with the overall theme of "Mechanical Information in DNA"
of the discussion, it seems that - at least some of - members of FIS begin
to address the quastions of HOW the tran
Theology and Information
Once again, Bruno has put his finger on the central point of interest: it
is irrelevant, what we call the problem, the subject-matter remains the
same over the generations. In times long gone, thinkers have called the
same problems THEOLOGICAL questions, because it was u
Il en a une definition formelle, mathematique, pratique du ce qui est nomme
"information" contenu dans ma livre Ordres Naturels. Amazon et al.
Karl
On 4 Nov 2016 15:43, "Michel Godron" wrote:
I may understand why in "quantum foundations" nobody can define rigorously
the basic term "information".
Well, Joseph, you don't have to go far to get the desired definition of
information as an operator (produced quantity).
The only prerequisite is to be ready to discard the practice, ideas,
philosophy and ideology of the definitions relating to commutativity.
This is heresy, I understand. On the o
omplex processes does your approach NOT apply?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Karl Javorszky
> *To:* Joseph Brenner
> *Cc:* Terrence Deacon ; fis
> ; John Collier ; Gyorgy Darvas ; Bob
> Logan ; Andrei Khrennikov
> ;
Sorry for disturbing you with this test text.
A lengthy response to Josph's statements in the discussion about
Commutativity has not made it thru the spam filter.
Maybe, next week it can be persuaded to obey its human masters.
Nice weekend to you (if you read this)
Karl
Andrei,
there is a reasonable, credible, explainable entry card to the assembly of
decision makers who award science grants in the billion € business of
quantum information and unified simple explanations.
One may present a consistent, easy to understand, simple set of algorithms
that in effect g
Dear FIS,
The noble conquest of choosing the right method of understanding
information divides this learned society. Some argue that pre-Platonic
approaches towards understanding Nature are pre-scientific and therefore
can be dismissed out of hand.
Let us imagine that the Neanderthals have mai
the patterns here
referred to, it is necessary to order a collection and then order it some
more until it becomes well-ordered, and watch the conflicts that are
immanent to order, namely its alternatives and its background. This is
simple, archaic and instructive.
2016-11-30 8:46 GMT+01:00 Karl J
Toposcopy
Thank you for the excellent discussion on a central issue of epistemology.
The assertion that topology is a primitive ancestor to mathematics needs to
be clarified.
The assertion maintains, that animals possess an ability of spatial
orientation which they use intelligently. This ability
Explanations
Thank you, Jerry, for pointing out the excellent treatise by Hempel &
Oppenheim on the Logic of Explanation. As I understand their viewpoint, the
ultimate explanation refers to a system of facts that are known to all who
use that system in which the explanation is placed. The explan
Occam’s Razor and Venture Capital
Arturo’s homepage is very instructive. The figure of a medieval scholar and
innovator springs to mind. Pedro has, in our long history, repeatedly
referred to the school of Salamanca as the interdisciplinary centre of
European intellectuality. We live in historic
What is Information?
Once more, Occam and the numbers give a simple, short and concise
explanation. (There is more text and a formal definition of information in
my book “Natural Orders” ISBN: 9783990571378.)
The root of the term “information” is in the concept of order. The idea of
order can
Information and Wittgenstein
We should keep the self-evident in focus and refrain from descending into a
philosophical nihilism. We are, after all, reasonable people, who are able
to use our intelligence while communicating, and usually we understand each
other quite well. The idea, that informa
Gestalt
Alex asks to contribute to his writing on Gestalt, based on Vedic teachings
relating to how we memorise texts. Not knowing anything about the Vedic
part of it, let me summarise what used to be accepted wisdom on Gestalt in
psychology: this without any claim to completeness or correctness
Google says
Thank you, I will reply to your e-mail as soon as possible!
Am 18.03.2017 18:40 schrieb "Jerry LR Chandler" :
> FISers:
>
> In response to the message posted below, I received the following response
> :
>
> liugang-...@cass.org.cn
>
> 谢谢，我将尽快答复你的电子邮件！
>
> In order to facilitate commun
1) Let me second to the point Alex raises:
machines, computers, do exchange information. It would be against cultural
conventions to say that the notification that the refrigerator sends to
your phone's app "to-do-list" of the content "milk only 0.5 liter
available" is not an information.
The sign
Calculating information content, example DNA
1) Discussion about beer cans and living objects
Information is an abstract concept which can only be entertained in the
minds of entities that can deal with abstract concepts, usually humans. The
present discussion about whether inanimate objec
discussing
phlogiston and destiny, and spend time usefully by looking into relations
among natural numbers. The time will certainly come when people will
understand that science is not glamour. Hollywood is glamour. Science is
numbers.
Thanks to MDPI, a simple google entry “mdpi karl javorszky
farther away in the shade.)
*Example:*
Let us take 5 garden peas and order them according to any of their main
properties:
Case Nr. 1:
Garden pea nr.
First name
Second name
Place
Main subject
1
Arturo
Tozzi
Italy
Physics
2
Joe
Brenner
Zurich
Logic
3
Karl
Javorszky
Vienna
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