Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: source/src/Main
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:32:17 -0400, Nicolas wrote in message 808354800910240732j3a31c2belb37bbcc2a50c8...@mail.gmail.com: Erh, he just has to take out said code, and his customers will not be the wiser, since they won't see the message. He does read the list after all. As Bertrand said, it's not going to achieve the desired result, not at all. And it's trying to work around the GPL, by doing something different if you don't respect someone's wishes on naming/re-branding. That's an usage restriction, or close enough, that we're starting to split hairs many times over. If you want to go along a similar route, why not have the help menu go to the flightgear.org website, rather than a local copy of the manual ? Then you can control the content on said webpage and tell people about the bad folks at FPS. But doing sneaky stuff that will affect people who might have legitimate reasons to rename FGFS without breaching the GPL just to counter one offender seems, well, simply misguided. ..what if this bug pops up a bug report form where the innocent end user may fill in all the gory details such as money paid to which pirate copyist, for disgorgement? ..that way, we can explain why we need to do this. More below. Cheers, Nic On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.netwrote: Bertrand Coconnier wrote: I am bit taken aback by this commit. Is it really where the Flight Gear community wants to go ? These people at Flight Pro Sim are deliberately trying to decieve the FlightGear devlopment 'crew' (just think of their ridiculous attempt of calming the waves by offering this $250 reward, _after_ they got 'trapped') as well as their own customers. Therefore I think it's acceptable to shed some light onto the story by telling the truth to the respective buyers. IMHO this commit is pointless and I am concerned that it may be the first step of many towards restriction of use. As far as I can tell this step is pretty well in compilance with the GPLv2, the license that covers most of FlightGear. So where do you spot a restriction ? Cheers, Martin. ..note that a _failure_ to enforce the GPLv2, _can_ be construed as a license. CD letters can also be copied into the known bugs section, say with an invitation to join in on litigation and disgorgement from culprits like the Flight Pro Sim crew. ..if e.g. Durk, Heiko and Curt sends a CD letter to these ass holes, denying them any further license to their FG code under GPLv2 and Copyright Law, they must remove Durk's, Heiko's and Curt's FG code from their Flight Pro Sim, and write their own code. What _are_ you guys waiting for, their $250? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear in industry use
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:50:14 -0500, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9920910270650p21349d36x27b990b1a8ea3...@mail.gmail.com: On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Leonardo Fabian Grodek wrote: Hi, Looking for information on autopilots I've found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/piccolo_II.shtm#software In the list of downloadable software you can see Flightgear listed, with credits. I've also found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf Those more active than me in FG development (almost everybody but me indeed...) could feel proud of their work by seeing FG recommended by industry leaders. I got to see a Cloudcap Piccolo flying on big UAV earlier this fall (16' wing span, 150 lbs beast of an airplane). This was an older piccolo. I hear v2 is even better. Good stuff! (of course the uav stuff I'm working will be much better once it is finished.) :-) Curt. ..aye. One problem, they provide FG binaries, but no source??? http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/FlightGear/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear in industry use
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:08:17 +0200, Leonardo wrote in message 1cc3f5360910281208h5ea7ca78k4638c1af06bbe...@mail.gmail.com: On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:50:14 -0500, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9920910270650p21349d36x27b990b1a8ea3...@mail.gmail.com: On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Leonardo Fabian Grodek wrote: Hi, Looking for information on autopilots I've found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/piccolo_II.shtm#software In the list of downloadable software you can see Flightgear listed, with credits. I've also found this: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf Those more active than me in FG development (almost everybody but me indeed...) could feel proud of their work by seeing FG recommended by industry leaders. I got to see a Cloudcap Piccolo flying on big UAV earlier this fall (16' wing span, 150 lbs beast of an airplane). This was an older piccolo. I hear v2 is even better. Good stuff! (of course the uav stuff I'm working will be much better once it is finished.) :-) Curt. ..aye. One problem, they provide FG binaries, but no source??? http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/FlightGear/ -- Well, under Piccolo Systems -- Downloads -- Piccolo Setup and User Guides, there's a link to this Piccolo Simulator document: http://www.cloudcaptech.com/download/Piccolo/Piccolo%20Documentation/Version%202.1.1%20Docs/Software/Piccolo%20Simulator.pdf In the Introduction of this document they mention the open source Flightgear simulator. Then, on page 40 they explain how to install Flightgear, and on page 42 they finally discover one of Flightgear's how-to pages. From here the user could get to all Flightgear information and sources. I agree they could have mentioned Flightgear's link for the sources in a more otstanding way; nevertheless, it seems they are not trying to hide the openeness of the simulator; they may have overseen something in the GPL rules, and by presenting to them this issue they would include a link to the Download Source Code page. ..actually, it is _they_ (cloudcaptech.com) who needs to provide the sources for their FG-0.9.8, FG-0.9.9 and FG-0.9.10 binaries, for as long as they are publishing these obsolete binaries, and for 3 full years after they yank them down, check Stefan's and Heiko's responses. ..in their shoes, to comply, I would yank the obsolete binaries, drop the tarballed sources for each of these obsolete FG versions in where each of their respective binaries used to be, and ask each FG developer author for permission under GPLv2, to publish their work to honor my obligations for the next 3 years under the GPL. ..for FG etc GPL binaries, the easiest way is simply point directly to FlightGear.org like Big Blue IBM does. ;o) Fabian -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] subsystem_mgr.cxx:249: error
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 04:16:32 +0700, Mihail wrote in message ee6d1c250910301416j7f98ddb2kf09a2bd8c898a...@mail.gmail.com: g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../simgear -I../.. -I/opt/FlightGear/include -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT subsystem_mgr.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/subsystem_mgr.Tpo -c -o subsystem_mgr.o subsystem_mgr.cxx subsystem_mgr.cxx: In member function ‘void SGSubsystemGroup::Member::printTimingStatistics()’: subsystem_mgr.cxx:249: error: ‘snprintf’ was not declared in this scope I can not compile. In Windows and Linux... Fix it pliz. Sorry. I almost do not speak on English ..you're Russian? http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=ru http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en http://www.google.no/language_tools?hl=no etc, ..also google for other translation sites than Google, and crosscheck your translations between them, e.g. if Googles' Norwegian translation of your native language text looks reasonable to you in Yahoo's English, chances are fairly good I'll understand what you're trying to tell me. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Sound system committed
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:54:06 -0500, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9920910310754n7f4e32ech78caf4694415...@mail.gmail.com: On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Erik Hofman wrote: Alright, enough of this. I've spent three full weeks trying to get the position and orientation correctly and asked several times for help but no one seems to care. Fine, it. Erik, I've seen one thread with over 100 messages on the topic and this thread is about 60 messages already, not to mention all the smaller threads and individual messages. You are the audio system expert, and I've seen tons of people pitching in to offer problem reports on their platform and test potential fixes as you propose them. I'm not sure what you are hoping for in terms of help, but I've seen more interest and participation in this process of overhauling the audio system than for just about any other issue in recent memory. Regards, Curt. ..a test script idea; all the way from cvs co etc on everything needed to run the tests Erik needs run, all the way to and thru the tests scripts Erik needs run, and passing on all the logs he needs to read? (I'm busy moving house, workshop, genset and gasifier etc.) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATC services for FSWeekend...
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:55:54 -0800 (PST), Jr. wrote in message 128049.27129...@web46402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com: Hello all -- sorry about my abrupt exit this morning -- especially to you, Jomo, whom I feel I left holding the reins. To be honest, the level of chaos was just too much for me. I'm happy to volunteer ATC services for events where the participants are all attempting to work within the system, but when it becomes a free-for-all I just don't feel like I can manage. I apologize to anyone whom I may have let down and hope that the rest of the event goes well. I will probably participate as a pilot at some point. Sorry again, and thanks. Sincerely, -R. (MD-Terp) Robert M. Shearman, Jr. Transit Operations Supervisor, University of Maryland Department of Transportation also known as rm...@umd.edu ..sounds like ATC needs to be able to use AAA to bring down EA in a boring way to EAP's and in an eminently satisfying way to ATC. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:25:57 -, Vivian wrote in message 6e5e9a144a174d9c84057da9eff57...@main: Tom, I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with your suggestion, just that it does not meet the original remit, which was to be able to ignore players who were not following the rules, either intentionally or through ignorance. We already almost have what you propose with ports 5000/5002. Which reminds me: IIRC 5001 is reserved for telnet. We rarely use 5002 for development nowadays, so I suppose there is nothing stopping a bunch of like-minded guys using that. However, I just have a final reservation - MP was meant to be the global picture of the airspace - not just a part. That said perhaps we do need a ban/kick/ignore like IRC for MP. We have stepped around this issue in the past. ..in the GNU spirit; Why not simply _use_ IRC for FG MP??? It'll be fast paced etc alright, but it allows e.g. #FG-ATC, #FG-newbies, #FG-dogfight etc, e.g. on the same ports we use now. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flight Gear on Windows
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:37:44 +0100, jean wrote in message 4b22c9b8.6050...@wanadoo.fr: Vivian Meazza a écrit : Geoff, I agree with all you have said, but would add the following: The reset bug has been sorted. The crash-on-exit bug has probably been sorted, but I haven’t had time to test it yet. I don’t see the red/orange effect you report. got something like that too on linux, but guess what? with an ati card it's related to shaders, as once i remove the shader effects, scenary is ok. depending on sun and orientation, scenery get sudenly darker, or green, or blue affecting differently far and close field. some screens: http://janodesbois.free.fr/fg_screens/decembre09/fgfs-screen-005.png http://janodesbois.free.fr/fg_screens/decembre09/fgfs-screen-006.png http://janodesbois.free.fr/fg_screens/decembre09/fgfs-screen-024.png and an other (ati?) bug: if i have a look on the airport from obove vertically, then texture become a mess, and all is fine once shaders removed: http://janodesbois.free.fr/fg_screens/decembre09/fgfs-screen-027.png ps: and to answer to the question why have you taken an ati card? that was the only way to flight with shaders on an agp card, and so my PC can last some years more :) . using fglrx, on a debian sid with an ati radeonhd4650. ..try X.org's radeon and X.org/Novell's radeonHD too, and show us so we can compare them. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Return on Information: Google Enterprise Search pays you back Get the facts. http://p.sf.net/sfu/google-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flight Pro Sim Statement (was Re: FlightGear URL verification patch)
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:24:23 +0100, Durk wrote in message 200912142224.24136.d.tal...@xs4all.nl: On Monday 14 December 2009 12:11:15 pm Stuart Buchanan wrote: I think one statement can easily be used for both purposes if written appropriately. Agreed. That's actually what I was thinking of. I'd appreciate feedback, even if it is only to agree with the wording of the statement, to ensure that we have buy-in for this. In addition to the points brought up by others, I have one suggestion for a FAQ item: From the discussion on the flight simulator network, it struck me that people (especially those with a freeware background) don't necessarily understand why we are allowing third parties to make money off of FlightGear. I guess this is already covered by the is it legal to resell FAQ item, but maybe it's worth to specifically address this question from a different perspective (i.e. that of somebody coming from a freeware background)? Cheers, Durk ..the freebee crowd often get their warez the same way they get their music, and may even have seen sheet music, allowing our banal sheet music is for music binaries, like what source code is for flight simulator binaries. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Return on Information: Google Enterprise Search pays you back Get the facts. http://p.sf.net/sfu/google-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flight Pro Sim Statement
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:30:50 + (GMT), Stuart wrote in message 724039.15837...@web26006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com: Q: Is it legal for the makers of Flight Pro Sim to simply re-brand FlightGear ? A: Yes. Under the GNU GPL v2 ..have you guys decide _against_ GPLv3 and GPLv2-and-later and instead decided to go GPLv2-_only_??? ..if not, FG is GPL and GPLv2-and-maybe-later. ;o) (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html), this is legal, provided that they distribute the source code (or make it available). Q: Has Flight Pro Sim paid any money to FlightGear for the rights to the program ? A: No. No such payment is required, as FlightGear is open-source ..say is GPL software, BSD, MIT etc are also open-source. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Return on Information: Google Enterprise Search pays you back Get the facts. http://p.sf.net/sfu/google-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] ..FG as airport engineering design tool, was: reversible ILS
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:21:22 -0700, John wrote in message 4b2e5d12.1080...@av8n.com: On 12/20/2009 09:15 AM, stefan riemens suggested: How about making allowing one to set the proposed preferred-approach-deg property, but not requiring it. It's already not required. It has a reasonable default. Most users will never even know it's there. This is in line with real-world reality. There are some real-world pilots, including virtually all VFR pilots and even some instrument-rated pilots, who have never heard of reversible ILSs. ..some people will want to _change_ e.g. approach routing, into say a gliding spiral at night in the summer so people can sleep with their windows open, or some such political scenario. That means overriding whatever defaults FG got from Robin's airport feature listing, and probably close to run-time ideas like How much noise do we make at 5.5 and 6 degree glides if we go 500 feet left and then weave back right the last mile?. We have all bits in place? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flight Pro Sim Statement (v1.3)
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:40:55 + (GMT), Stuart wrote in message 206864.11472...@web26005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com: Hi All, I've received a couple of final comments. V1.4 of the statement is below. I think we've now got a statement that everyone on the -dev list is happy with. Curt - Can you please uploaded it to the main FG website and add a link from the Announcements page. I'll then send out some emails to various FlightSim websites. Thanks to everyone for commenting. -Stuart Jon S. Bernt wrote: FlightGear is AN open source flight simulator. Whoops. Corrected. John Denker wrote: Q: Is it legal for the makers of Flight Pro Sim to simply re-brand FlightGear ? A: Yes. Under the GNU GPL v2 (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html), this is legal, provided that they distribute the source code (or make it available). We do not know if this is the case or not. It would be better to leave out the initial Yes here. A similar Yes was removed from the next FAQ. The same logic applies here. Good point. Sorted. Bob Faulkner wrote: Q: I have purchased Flight Pro Sim. Can I get a refund ? A: That is something you will have to take up with the distributors of Flight Pro Sim. Change makers to distributors Curt also suggested affiliate, but I think that's something that will be lost on the average buyer, and (as Bob pointed out) distributor is the phrase used in the GPL, so I've used distributor. === FlightGear Flight Pro Sim Statement (v1.4): As many people will be aware, there is a new flight simulator product that is being widely and actively marketed at the moment - Flight Pro Sim. As it is almost entirely based on FlightGear, there is some confusion between the two. To help provide some clarity, and answer some common questions, we (the core FlightGear development team) felt it was appropriate to make a statement, and provide a FAQ. FlightGear is an open-source flight simulator that was started in 1996. It is released under the GNU General Public License v2, and as such, it is free to use, modify and distribute with few restrictions. It has been developed with the collaboration of a large number of individuals over the last 12 years. FlightGear can be downloaded at no cost from http://www.flightgear.org. Flight Pro Sim is a commercial product very heavily based on FlightGear. Investigation by a number of the FlightGear developers has found no difference between this and the FlightGear v1.9.1 release other than a change of name. Flight Pro Sim is in no way endorsed or supported by the core FlightGear development team. Given the similarities between Flight Pro Sim and FlightGear, we would recommend that prospective buyers download FlightGear for free and satisfy themselves that Flight Pro Sim provides worthwhile value for money before purchasing it. FAQ: Q: What is the difference between FlightGear and Flight Pro Sim? A: As far as we have been able to make out, the only difference between FlightGear v1.9.1 and Flight Pro Sim is a change in name throughout the software, and the fact that you have to pay for it. Q: Is it legal for the makers of Flight Pro Sim to simply re-brand FlightGear ? A: Under the GNU GPL v2 (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html), this is legal, provided that they distribute the source code (or make it available). We do not know if this is the case or not. ..add: Without such source code made available, the GPL falls away and all Flight Pro Sim distributors face criminal litigation for their copyright violations. Q: Is it legal to sell a copy of FlightGear, whether re-branded or not ? A: Yes, provided the seller is in compliance with a number of conditions detailed in the GPL. In fact, those interested in receiving a DVD containing FlightGear may do so through the main FlightGear website, and directly contribute to the project (though they may want to wait for the upcoming release in the new year). Q: Has Flight Pro Sim paid any money to FlightGear for the rights to the program ? A: No. No such payment is required, as FlightGear is GPL software. ..this is a dead wrong way of answering these 2 independent questions, GPL being free-as-in-freedom, and No such payment is required because it just by some accident happens to be free-bee(r) too, these 2 independent questions needs to be split up, and they each deserves an independent answer. ..say: A. No. We the FlightGear Authors, do not offer FlightGear code under any other license than the GPL, nor under any commercial license agreement contract, since the GPL is fully adequate for any use and any and all lawful distribution. We are happy to accept donations and contributions, and even political and financial support, but this is not a requirement under the GPL. Q: Why do the FlightGear developers allow this ? ..define this, or rephrase the question to ask if or why we let the Flight Pro Sim get away with
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Copyrights
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:41:15 +0100, Erik wrote in message 4b46efab.4020...@ehofman.com: J. Holden wrote: LeeE: I appreciate your comments, but in that case, why is FlightGear licensed under the GPL at all if we're not willing to enforce it? ..you don't enforce the GPL like decades of dandy EULA contract litigation, on GPL violations, you simply grab your toys and go home and have your lawyer make the cops enforce copyright law on the perp's ass. The GPL is designed to be as open as possible, but still giving rights to the people who hold the copyright on the product! Well that was my point, I could use my own code any way I want to (even in closed source projects) without any problems if the copyright remains by me. Handing over the copyright to some entity prevents that. ...and it also creates defeatable targets for expensive decades of frivolous dandy EULA style contract litigation harassment. Now, we're like a guerilla of innocent gorillas, if you ever wondered what the G means. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Commercial ads on the web site ....
On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 23:41:43 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message hib47n$oj...@osprey.mgras.de: Dale J. Chatham wrote: You'll notice that what you object to us under Marketplace. It's banner ads used to finance the site. Yup, I know about the background, but when I look at this picture, I think it's better to have whichever 'cheap' site than this one. ..as an appropriate response, don't we have fat aircraft, like a Guppy, or an airship, or a balloon? ;o) The alternative is user fees. No, this is certainly not the only option, Martin. ..I can see headlines in the papers... ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Nominations for Aircraft Selection intheFlightGear 2.0 Release
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:38:43 +1100, Scott wrote in message 1263803923.2452.2.ca...@scott: On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 09:29 +0100, Erik Hofman wrote: syd adams wrote: Ok , I understand it when put that way. I guess now my other question would be , is it conflicting to proceed with development under the cc licence on certain models?Can there be 2 versions ? I see no reason why not, especially if it's your own work. dual and triple licenses are not that un-common; http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/ ..me, I was _wondering_ about you guys and the Boost licensing: ;o) http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/ http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html ..GPL compatibility matrix: http://gplv3.fsf.org/dd3-faq from: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20050131065655645 http://blogs.sun.com/theaquarium/entry/glassfish_and_cddl and the full text https://glassfish.dev.java.net/public/CDDL+GPL.html I can't get my head around the impact, but it's certainly possible... ..the CDDL+GPL combination is certainly one to avoid, the CDDL is a litigation trap, and by design so, FSF's polite advice: Common Development and Distribution License (CDDL), version 1.0 This is a free software license. It has a copyleft with a scope that's similar to the one in the Mozilla Public License, which makes it incompatible with the GNU GPL. This means a module covered by the GPL and a module covered by the CDDL cannot legally be linked together. We urge you not to use the CDDL for this reason. Also unfortunate in the CDDL is its use of the term “intellectual property”. from: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies. http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Nominations for Aircraft Selection in theFlightGear 2.0 Release
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:50:03 +0100, Gijs wrote in message snt101-w625f7235e7a7337b02a20d3...@phx.gbl: Hi, Scott wrote: To help discussion, I've tried to list all the contemporary airliners and give some idea of how much functionality (for flying) is implemented. If we look at your status numbers, only the Concorde and 777-200ER are considered to be fairly completed. As the concorde cannot be considered as an ordinary airliner, I would vote for the 777-200ER, once again. It is pretty common all around the world. ..what if we toss out the ordinary airliner idea and go with the Concorde as an historical airliner? It _is_ speedy sexy. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies. http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: winner Softonic Awards 2009
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:08:35 -0300, Victhor wrote in message 2b5c86c7-f4bb-475b-97e4-8362ac245...@gmail.com: ..ah. Maybe we should just wait and see? ;o) Professionalism = Good graphics and such, proper company support. Hi, Softonic is already a known site (well, at least to me) and they are reviewing and providing free software. What I find interesting is this: -Lacks the professionalism of X-Plane and Microsoft Simulator X What they understand under professionalism? Cheers Heiko still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html --- Curtis Olson curt0...@flightgear.org schrieb am Mi, 27.1.2010: Von: Curtis Olson curt0...@flightgear.org Betreff: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: winner Softonic Awards 2009 An: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Datum: Mittwoch, 27. Januar 2010, 16:32 Does anyone here know anything about softonics? At first glance it appears to me to be a link exchange ploy ... by giving out awards we post the banner on our page with a link back to their site ... drives traffic to them. Or maybe this is a prestigious award and I'm just behind on what's what and who's who these days in the internet world. Well, anyway we won! Woo hoo ... we are now in the running for a free car, but the way those sorts of prizes are taxed around here, something like that is usually a lot more trouble than it's worth. But sounds good on the face of it, maybe I should post their banner and link so we get more votes for the free car? :-) Curt. -- Forwarded message -- From: Mareike Lang mareike.l...@softonic.com Date: Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 6:03 AM Subject: winner Softonic Awards 2009 To: curt0...@flightgear.org Hi there, We have the pleasure to inform you that your program FlightGear has been elected as the winner in the category “Best Free Game” of the Softonic Awards 2009, a prize that aims to acknowledge the best software applications of the year. From October 6th, 2009 until November 30th, 2009 all Softonic users were able to vote for their favourite candidate and enter a draw to win a fantastic car. Please find the Softonic Awards winner badge attached to this email, and feel free to use them on your website! a title=Softonic Awards 2009 - Winner href=http://en.softonic.com/awards2009;img src=http://static.sftcdn.net/en/images/promos/awards09/badges/winner_7_badge.png; alt=Softonic Awards 2009 - Winner border=0/ /a Copyright SOFTONIC INTERNATIONAL S.L. © 2009 - All rights reserved -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] severe erosion of the terrain
On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:57:40 -0600, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9921002060557t32655958qe02b15539ade1...@mail.gmail.com: On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 4:29 AM, Erik Hofman wrote: [ the model view.] I never understood this view anyhow, what is it supposed to do? As I recall, the point of this view was to show an external view of the aircraft from a fixed heading. For some situations and some people, all the extra visual motion generated by keeping the view point fixed with the orientation of the aircraft could cause nausea, or not show the desired visualization results as well. So I believe it was Michael Selig of UIUC that created this view very early on in the history of FlightGear. It is intentionally less dramatic than the other views. That said, I have no idea why the scenery would show up different in this view for John ... maybe more issues of our code not being 100% compatible with ATI hardware (or visa versa?) ..another wee hint, is _always_ ask _which_ ATI driver is used, X.org's radeon, X.org--Novell's radeonhd or ATI's own proprietary fglrx, not to mention XFree86 age relics like r128 and atimisc (which is AKA mach64). ..the '_which_ ATI driver' is also easily lost in a thread here, which makes archived fix searches, harder. ..x.org's wrapper driver ati loads radeon, r128 or atimisc, depending on which hardware you feed it. ..and then there's Catalyst etc for the proprietary OS'es. http://www.x.org/wiki/ATIProprietaryDriver http://www.x.org/wiki/radeon http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd:feature ..http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram could use some updating. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Outerra
On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:52:23 +, Jon wrote in message 4b6f3617.6000...@stockill.net: Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, Just for those who wants to know what's going on in the flight sim world: Outerra is a new 3d-engine for seamless planet rendering. They included JSBSim, so it can be used as Flight Sim. It is still in developement, but they hope it will be used in any games and sims in near future. There is a demo planned for the next few weeks. I wonder if we can use this with FGFS as well ;-) But it seems that the new technics used shows the future of flight sims graphics and abilities Very impressive. I wonder how well it handles more urban environments. The screenshots of the road rendering are very nice. ..aye, chk out his videos. ;o) Jon -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 2.0.0 Announcement text + Summary of ChangeLog
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:01:32 +0900 (JST), YOSHIMATSU wrote in message 20100211.120132.135590097.qzt04...@nifty.ne.jp: FlightGear 2.0.0-pre3 for Mac OS X, Universal Binary \b0 \ \fs24 February 2nd, 2009\ \ We are very proud and excited to release the FlightGear 2.0.0-pre3 for Mac OS X. This release gives more comfortable flight to every single Mac user. It runs on Mac OS 10.4 (Tiger), 10.5 (Leopard), and 10.6 (Snow Leopard). FlightGear 2.0.0-pre3 for Mac OS X comes with the fancy GUI launcher that eases your flight. You can change aircraft, airport, and options as you like.\ \ The launcher also makes it possible to fly with your wing mates. Enabling multi-player mode pops up a fancy on-line map so you can find your new wing mates. Tail-to-nose flight ..you mean formation flight??? And I agree with Pete on .html rather than Microsoft's .rtf format. ;o) can be more fun with fgcom, an integrated voice chat client. It allows you to chat with your wing mate for better communications including Voice ATC. Moreover, FlightGear Mac OS X integrates Atlas - the navigation map that helps your flight plan. Thanks to the easy installer in the launcher, you can add new aircraft, scenery, GUI updates, and update files for existing files in a few seconds. \ \ Note that this release is a pre-release version and the selection of aircraft is not officially settled yet, so I picked up the same set of aircraft. \ \ Have a happy flight!\ \ \ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- SOLARIS 10 is the OS for Data Centers - provides features such as DTrace, Predictive Self Healing and Award Winning ZFS. Get Solaris 10 NOW http://p.sf.net/sfu/solaris-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader issue on ATI cards
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:21:32 +0100, Geoff wrote in message 1265890892.6457.3.ca...@dell02: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 10:45 +, Stuart Buchanan wrote: jean pellotier wrote: here are the screens of some issues with my HD4650: the color change done to close/far field (gren/red/darker): http://janodesbois.free.fr/fg_screens/decembre09/screens_fg_windowsXP/ and some clouds and others, specialy if the sun is low on horizon (starting from number20): http://janodesbois.free.fr/fg_screens/2010_janvier/ the 32-38 serie is turning with the propeller. this was with a windows binary from november i think, i didn't test the 2.0 binary yet on windows. on debian sid, i'm using the radeon driver so am unable to use flightgear, except low poly jsbsim planes without scenery, but with an ubuntu recently installed i've got the same color change. jano Are you seeing any error messages in the console at all? Usually if there is a shader issue, then some error messages are displayed there. However the colour problems you are seeing are quite strange. -Stuart Hi, As advised some time ago, in Nov, this is still present in Vista, but apparently not in Ubuntu, on my ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT card. There were no error messages output to the console. Some images and more information is at - http://geoffair.net/tmp/fg/ati-driver.htm ..you are running Ubuntu 8.04LTS with ATI's proprietary fglrx, or is there a Catalyst driver too? Have you tried a recent Live CD or Live USB with radeon, radeonhd and fglrx on your box? ..x.org's docs trails development a bit, radeonhd was supposed to support the newer cards better than radeon, but radeon looks like it's winning the race: ;o) http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd:feature http://www.x.org/wiki/Projects/Drivers -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- SOLARIS 10 is the OS for Data Centers - provides features such as DTrace, Predictive Self Healing and Award Winning ZFS. Get Solaris 10 NOW http://p.sf.net/sfu/solaris-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] rotated screen
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:44:20 +0800, Harry wrote in message acbcb7141002170944i61a2b45fofdc98cc8c1c08...@mail.gmail.com: I would like to generate a custom camera view ie, the engine instrumentation a late model 737 which is rotated 90 degrees. the scenario is a sim with 3 screens, the middle one being rotated physically in the panel and dedicated to this view. What options to achieve this I was thinking a separate pc on the network with the required graphics modified, I have searched about but not come up with anything definitive. Possibly I can just rotate the view in osg where the camera is defined and just position the instruments as required on the rotated panel in the normal maner (os is linux, multi screen video cards) Any suggestions on the way to approach this or where ita already been done would be most welcome. ..I see Jon 'n Curtis offer FG specific ideas, for a few X ideas, try 'xrandr --help |less ' in a xterm. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- SOLARIS 10 is the OS for Data Centers - provides features such as DTrace, Predictive Self Healing and Award Winning ZFS. Get Solaris 10 NOW http://p.sf.net/sfu/solaris-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Proposed new set of splash screens
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:50:55 -0600, Curtis wrote in message ef5fc9921002191450u6ec35650i21eae1784f19e...@mail.gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Pigeon wrote: I've created a new set of splash screens based on the images Durk created about two weeks ago. I was thinking a bit again. Would it be any better to say the Open Source Flight Simulator, rather than just Free? As we know free doesn't necessarily mean open source. Just another 2 cents... I am willing to defer to the general consensus, but for me Free Flight Simulator doesn't quite have the all the right nuances. I still kind of like natural flying or flying naturally or flying a la natural. :-) ..let's try precision: GPL Flight Simulator ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Proposed new set of splash screens
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:34:26 +0100, ArthurX wrote in message 70400f671002200234g5adcbe49pc8f54f1ba4c25...@mail.gmail.com: I also like the splash screens, especially with the new typesetting: http://www.sablonier.ch/flightgear/splash/typosplash01.jpg And for me Open Source is something, what FlightGear is. So it should not be omitted. It's part of the fun and pride. ..depends, I hear e.g. some of the networking code in Microsoft Windows is also Open Source, under a BSD license, so we might want to be a little stricter and more specific, calling FG say a GPL Flight Simulator, which will cover both GPLv2, GPLv2-and-later and GPLv3. http://www.sablonier.ch/flightgear/splash/typosplash01.jpgMaybe we can add some other slogan to it. Like all there is and down in the right bottom something: Surfing the Clouds Not something sensible or logical. For gliders it would be. Greetings Arthur On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: HB-GRAL wrote: Very nice new splash screen pictures! Should we use some other fonts instead of Verdana for FlightGear and this x-plane-Helvetica ;-) for the other parts? Two other examples of some fonts here (quick and absolutely unfinished work of course): http://www.sablonier.ch/flightgear/splash/typosplash01.jpg http://www.sablonier.ch/flightgear/splash/typosplash02.jpg I like this idea, I'll rework them a bit. Thanks! Erik -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Seeking permission -- reuse of SimGear component
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:13:21 -0800, Michael wrote in message 4b7ffc11.1020...@sofia.usra.edu: I do need to modify coremag to accomplish our goals, so I don't think LGPL will cover it. The file itself claims GPLv2, and it's not good enough anyway for NASA bean counters for other authors to claim that's an error without correcting it. ..would FG, SG etc going to LGPLv3 and GPLv3, help you with the NASA bean counters problem? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Proposed new set of splash screens
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:37:52 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote in message 4b81c3d0.90...@sablonier.ch: I checked the libre fonts and this are my (quick) results for now: Allerta (modified): http://www.sablonier.ch/flightgear/splash/typosplash03.jpg DejaVu (modified): http://www.sablonier.ch/flightgear/splash/typosplash04.jpg ..Yves, we spell it FlightGear, not Flightgear. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Proposed new set of splash screens
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:46:49 +, leee wrote in message 201002251146.49352.l...@spatial.plus.com: misleading responses (for describing an aircraft as just 'art' work whilst ignoring the FDM, animation and scripting development work ..the aircraft geometries, liveries, the FDM's, the scripts are all artwork under copyright law and license-able under both the GPL and proprietary private sandbox licenses. ..whether or not these private sandbox artworks can be used legally with FG and other GPL programs, depends on the precise wording of these proprietary private sandbox licenses, some, like e.g. Sun's CDDL a few years back, are designed to set up legal traps to sabotage GPL project, by putting developers in danger of litigation for software piracy. ..the average cost of such litigation is US $3 million when Microsoft has no case and settles to avoid getting slapped by the courts for frivolous harassment. See Groklaw.net. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Airliners and Auto Pitch-Trim
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 20:29:55 +0800, Innis wrote in message blu131-w17c7e956211e458dacc7f2df...@phx.gbl: Hi Guys I think you will find on all Boeing aircraft if the elevator is out of neutral for a set amount of time the horizontal stabilizer runs to return the elevator to the null position.Hence retriming the aircraft.Hence the name stabilizer trim I think also you will find that the tab on the elevator is not a trim tab but moves in the opposite direction to the elevator movement. ..those tabs are 'servo rudders', the essentially fly the elevators etc they hang on to, not the plane, etc for rudders, ailerons etc. They are often _combined_ with trim tab controls, though. So until we get a working FDM for the horizontal stabilizer in FG anything else will be a hack. ..maybe a tree of sub-FDM's? Cheers Innis Hi, I just tried with the SenceaII and both Ti and elevator filter influence this. Great, thanks to all for the help! Cheers Heiko If you have a pid-simple-controller, try increasing Ti, it slows down the action. Hi Torsten, That sounds like it could be done without nasal just in the autopilot file. I guess the speed of the trim-pitch-channel can be changed with the filter? (The 737-300 has a speed-trim at certain situations) Kind regards Heiko Hi Heiko, the auto-pitch-trim channel moves the elevator trim to return the elevator into the neutral position while the pitch-channel moves the elevator to change attitude. Or a bit more technical: The auto-pitch-trim-channel compares the elevator-pos-norm to a reference of zero and adjusts elevator-trim The pitch-channel compares e.g. current pitch with a reference of some calculated target pitch and adjusts elevator-pos Usually the pitch-trim channel is much slower than the elevator channel. HTH, Torsten -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel _ Get personal with Windows. Download a free gift for your PC. http://experience.windows.com -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:50:34 +0100, Erik wrote in message 4b9e655a.9050...@ehofman.com: Heiko Schulz wrote: That won't stop the fact that he already makes money with our work. And yes, I seriously believe that he is able to bring our project in danger. Making money is one thing; it's allowed by the GPL. ..yes, but not common theft. Nor software piracy. Problem here seems that, while our project tries to do everything to keep it as open as possible, they (he) does just the opposite. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:04:35 +0100 (CET), Frederic wrote in message 29285847.3999171268669075452.javamail.r...@spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.net: - Heiko Schulz a écrit : Heiko Schulz wrote: Hey folks, you won't belive that- but Flight Pro Sim releases a new version! Isn't it surprising? Did you know that many of the technologies used in FlightGear are the same within FlightProSim? And that this has many improved graphics as well as 3D clouds and cool water? And did you know that we all are paid? That FlightProSim is a paid Flight Simulator so more work and time goes into it than a volunteer one? This guy is getting annoying. Erik Hopefully you didn't mean me! ;-) Indeed, we should react a bit harder now I think Making advertisement in our own forum shows that it is getting serious now I think the whole thread should be removed by the moderator. ..I disagree, that whole thread is probably relevant in litigation and law enforcement and should therefore remain in the open. I see no point making him advertisement and letting the flames grow up. ..just make sure it remains discoverable for the law sharks. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and case law. ;o) -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Bizarre Experiment
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:52:36 +0100, Durk wrote in message 201003162252.37060.d.tal...@xs4all.nl: Hi Curt, A shakey power supply would indeed be my alternative hypothesis. However, I would find it hard to imagine that the city power grid would be so much more stable than the university's power network (which I believe is also connected to the public power grid anyhow). In addition, at FSWeekend, we were running on an ad-hoc generator, which would be way less stable than the city power grid, I assume. ..depends on the load you give it, and you want a 3-phase and put one or 2 boxes on each phase on the toy gensets if you use them instead of UPS'es. In any case, the temperature in my living room has just reached approx 23 degrees celsius, and PH-UTW has experienced it's first lockup. This seems to confirm my temperature hypothesis. :-) ..nice firm rather than high pressure air is a neat dust ball blower, and you probably wanna do it outdoors. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Issue with default starting scenario
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:05:45 -0400, David wrote in message j2m75cb920c1004061705w741c4696k17ba1147ec6ba...@mail.gmail.com: On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Peter Brown smoothwater...@adelphia.net wrote: In terms of simplicity, I would like to offer a suggestion of using one (or more) of the parking positions at airports with (current) parking positions. If the user spawns at an airport without any preset parking positions, a position of :: 90 degrees to the runway and nose at runway edge :: should work for _most_ airports, until that airport is improved and gets a parking position. James suggestion of a multiplier can work, but I would suggest no more then (width*1) from the runway. Too many small airports would drop you in the woods at a greater multiplier. I realize I'm flogging a dead horse (and won't be offended if people tune out), but I just want to mention planes will very rarely be parked close to the runway, to avoid accidents if someone gets blown off the runway, ground-loops, etc. A plane parked near the runway with fuel in its tanks could make a deadly fireball out of what would otherwise be a bit of gear damage, a few broken runway lights, or (at worse) a bent wing. ..in case nobody else suggested it; hold our _started_ bird as #2 holding behind an AI aircraft on the holding line on an appropriate taxiway, with an an AI aircraft cleared for take-off, and then taking off, makes it both realistic and intuitive, just follow the 2 leaders examples. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] User selectable quality level for effects
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:46:46 + (GMT), Heiko wrote in message 181523.46862...@web23205.mail.ird.yahoo.com: Well, to be honest- I have currently the problem graphic appearence vs level vs hardware ;-) With A dualcore 2.8GHz, 2GB Ram, Nvidea 8800GT, Vsync (60Hz) ..64bit system? Which A dualcore 2.8GHz, an AMD? OS? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] OT: grub UUID boot fix ideas, was: Console/iPhone ports
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:14:13 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 20100416151413.44bbb...@a45.fmb.no: I'm willing to test FG on my board(I wanted to do so from the very beggining), but I'll warn you: my development system is broken(Ubuntu stopped booting after I moved my / to another HD, changed UUIDs in menu.lst and fstab, didn't work, also my partition seems to be corrupt) ..you wanna swap UUIDs for physical devices in your rescue boot, these newbie recipes trot you thru it step by step: http://www.sorgonet.com/linux/grubrestore/ or the Ubuntu way: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 or the generic way: http://grub.enbug.org/Manual , specificly the Panic! bit: http://grub.enbug.org/Manual#head-a7b34828da8e5c128aee5f8739218951c7cba0df ..handy tools: ;o) http://www.supergrubdisk.org/ http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ http://www.google.com/search?num=100q=grub+rescue+UUID -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Effects on OSX
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 01:37:42 +0200, HB-GRAL wrote in message 4bcb97c6.90...@sablonier.ch: I am running a MacBookPro OSX 10.5 ..this is the most recent OSX? 64bit dualcore Intel? Maxed out ram yet? What screen resolution? What frame rates have you seen this far on it? ..snip stuff I dunno. ;o) . Is my MacBookPro out of date with RadeonX1600 now? ..only if Apple has end-lifed it (which I doubt), and not if you can run it with X.org's radeon driver. ..as a backup idea; try boot it with a recest GNU/Linux Live CD or LiveUSB stick, it should default to X.org's radeon (or the ati wrapper) driver, and on your X1600, radeon should beat all other drivers. ..run it from ramdisk, and install FG onto that same ramdisk, that approach saves you from touching your OSX install and shows you what the X1600 etc hardware _can_ do. ;o) ..GNU/Linux benchmarks with tweak ideas that _may_ work for OSX too, OSX runs on top of Apple's version of *BSD Unix: http://www.free3d.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoronix http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/R300Benchmark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon#FOSS_drivers http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/RadeonFeature ..the hardware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_R500_.28X1xxx.29_series http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R520#X1600_series http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1600/specs.html http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1600/index.html -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear's Best Features
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:27:54 -0700 (PDT), cas...@mminternet.com wrote in message c522ef471c7c0d60a035ceb157caf083.squir...@www.mminternet.com: Just to be pendantic.. ;-) wgs-84 is an oblate spheroid and an equipotential gravity model which is what I think we all meant by round. I would image FSX also uses it, if not then this a definite plus ..earlier on, I believe Microsoft used a cylinder model to model planet Earth, did they switch before FSX? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] OpenGL EXT Functions - native windows
On Mon, 03 May 2010 11:44:12 +0200, Erik wrote in message 4bde9aec.1040...@ehofman.com: Frederic Bouvier wrote: The portable way is to use SGLookupFunction. SGGetGLProcAddress is only available under Unix ..on GNU/Linux, which one is quicker or faster? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] building minimal fg for only for a slaved instrument panel
On Tue, 18 May 2010 15:29:54 +0800, Harry wrote in message aanlktikmptlauqiudmdpsmwvwjmn0hg5ho6cyqbkm...@mail.gmail.com: For this I would like to use an Intel atom board ..which one? which is a pretty feeble MB but suits because its small, and low power use. Firstly has someone done this before? ..only something similar, ;o) the full FG on an AMD K6-2 450MHz _years_ back, 384MB ram, and an 128bit 128MB ATI Radeon 9250 in a 2x agp slot, 2 to 5fps on the runway, 5 to 8fps in the air, 20fps over water. KDE 3 on Debian Sid GNU/Linux, if that's too draggy, try FluxBox, LXDE or some other lightweight WM. ..most Atom cpu's support HyperThreading, 2 threads per cpu core, so I guess you can run the full current FG on at least the 2 core Atoms, the 330 or the D510. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] building minimal fg for only for a slaved instrument panel
On Wed, 19 May 2010 14:46:29 +0800, Harry wrote in message aanlktimodzzu1uqbes5nakiz8-pdwueinmhxg47yx...@mail.gmail.com: Sorry Arndt, for the Atom hint. ..lose the d to be forgiven. ;o) More Atom hints below. On 5/19/10, Harry Campigli harryc...@gmail.com wrote: Eric, thanks for the hint on the Atoms and threading, sadly I have checked and found mine to be a 230 which according to Intel in single core and dual thread. I have had it over a year so assume it was one of the first ones to come out. This most likely explains why V2 has a zero frame rate in XP and dies with a seg fault in linux (without any compiling issues) after loading the scenario file on it, while V 0.9 from 2006 runs fine in XP. So I am going to try it with V1.9.1, but I will start with a fresh SUSE install. Hopefully i can get an OSG version of FG to run on it. ..if your 230 has a vacant pci slot, try a fit pci graphic card, I believe you should be able to match or beat my K6-2 450MHz, it's bottleneck was the cpu. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] outerra news
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:40:45 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1006041240200.29...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Fri, 4 Jun 2010, Melchior FRANZ wrote: http://outerra.blogspot.com/2010/05/integrating-vector-data-roads.html That is just amazing. TerraGear should do that. :) ..with a yellow center stripe, these pix could pass as RL pix of Norwegian roads 20 years ago, they are too worn now. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lost SourceForge account jomo
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:20:06 +0200, Jörg wrote in message 1276269606.2264.27.ca...@emma-linux: Help please: I know I had an Account, but now the system does not accept my login any more! Recovery is not possible neither with e-mail, nor jomo, nor name, etc. If trying to create a new account it rejects by telling me jomo is used. ..so it exists. For sure I had a login - see e.g. [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German from 3/24/2010 and several others - showing my name and e-mail. By which I notice: My FirstName is written in real nice German Jörg instead of the usual engl. Joerg. May it be the new Computers do not like that ö?? ..quite likely an encoding issue, there's at least utf-8, iso8859-1, iso8859-10 and iso8859-15 covering the Scandinavian æøåöä, German adds at least the ß. One more hint: I could not find my articles by search of title nor my e-mail etc -- but I could list them in the complete list by date. Can anybody help?? I would like to keep my jomo!!! Please! joe ..you tried email their support? And, check your email _etc_ clients to make sure they all use the same encoding, and you'll probably want utf-8. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Official
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:17:23 -0500, Jim wrote in message aanlktimff3jaovv3funumvxh3cl-qpm5qf4uufw1b...@mail.gmail.com: Use of trademarked logos on liveries may possibly fall under nominative fair use, assuming they are accurate, as depiction of the trademarks are necessary to depict a publicly visible plane. To quote wikipedia with my own comments in brackets, and randomly using American Airlines as the example: The nominative use test essentially states that one party may use or refer to the trademark of another if: The product or service cannot be readily identified without using the trademark (e.g. trademark is descriptive of a person, place, or product attribute) [It is impossible to depict an American Airlines plane without an accurate AA livery] The user only uses so much of the mark as is necessary for the identification (e.g. the words but not the font or symbol) [The livery is accurate to what AA paints on their own planes, which are readily visible as a 'real-life' thing that anyone can see, and we simulate] The user does nothing to suggest sponsorship or endorsement by the trademark holder. This applies even if the nominative use is commercial, and the same test applies for metatags. [Since FG has _many_ liveries and isn't just, say, an American Airlines simulator, no reasonable person would believe sponsorship or endorsement by the airlines whose liveries are recreated in the simulation] At any rate, that only applies to U.S. trademark laws, so mileage may vary. At any rate I'd think we have fair use of trademarks on airliner liveries, so long as they are accurate. I think you'd run into trouble if you made up an 'imaginary' AA livery. ..no, the fair use clause specifically allows satire, humor, news reporting, political mockery etc, as free speech, which makes it a nice good deterrent of big biz bullying. ;o) It appears I've been in such litigation for 5 years now. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another FlightProSim website
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:51:09 -0400, kyle wrote in message 442ab084-bd64-4096-a05c-06c45a5cd...@gmail.com: On Jun 29, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Erik Hofman wrote: On Tue, 2010-06-29 at 11:11 +0200, Gijs de Rooy wrote: Hi, I was notified about the existence of yet another website, affliated with FlightSimPro: http://www.realflightsimulator.net/ I would ask people to be a bit careful before responding too aggressively. At this point looks to me like it's an honest person/company with good intentions. Maybe they doesn't even know about FlightGear. Erik Then we'd be best to tell them about FlightGear. A lot of people (After searching youtube, etc.) believe the FPS is legit simply because it has a price on it. I agree with Erik, don't respond too aggressively, it makes us seem at fault. People simply do not know about FG. Also, if they do know about FG because most websites are describing v1.9.1 stating it's a mix between FS 2004 and FS 2008. ^^It may be best to keep this one under radar to avoid community outcry. (unless it's already been posted) ..I respectfully disagree, we can use the community outcry, in courts, to go after the code thiefs and fencers, FlightSimPro and their accomplices _are_ in criminal violation of copyright law unless they comply with the GPL, and selling or buying stolen goods is also a misdemeanor or felony, depending on your jurisdiction. ..now, I gather many of the code fencers bought fenced FG in good faith because they were defrauded, they will want their money back, and they too will want the bad guys in jail. While I agree with you all on common courtesy, aggression too has its place in our civilized society, specificly in litigation. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] GIT and FGDATA
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 22:20:33 +0100, Vivian wrote in message 97168810c6ee43daaf3a43ad098c8...@main: Hal V. Engel wrote I have been using Cola GIT http://cola.tuxfamily.org/ as my GIT GUI front end on my Linux box and it works nicely. Start up is a little slow when opening a fgdata archive but other operations seem to be fairly fast. It is a python system and there are install instructions for Windows located here http://cola.tuxfamily.org/install.html. I have not used it on Windows so Thanks for the tip Hal. Unfortunately cola is about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Downloaded and installed, runs - and absolutely nothing happens. Back to Git bash I think Vivian ..workaround idea; you wanna do FG development on Microsoft Windows, not fight git specific Wintendo bugs, so do the git things on a git server on GNU/Linux box and then access your git trees there, from your development box. Disclaimer: I have _no_ experience with Samba (or git yet), my last use of Microsoft software, was boot up a laptop and point Microsoft Internet Explorer to http://goodbye-microsoft.com to upgrade it to Debian Sid. ;o) ..what you want, if you don't have an high end multi thread box that can run virtual boxes, is an old pc with a Debian base (bare bones) install, and then git and possibly Samba. (Is Samba even necessary for FG development on MSW off a lan git server???) ..accepting the defaults on the installer prompts, should get you there in good shape. Caution, Debian has _tons_ of _nice_ tools that will _easily_ _distract_ you. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Make an app they can't live without Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Optimal desktop processor/graphic card
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 11:29:42 +0200, fiers...@zonnet.nl wrote in message 4c909206.1080...@zonnet.nl: Op 11-09-10 19:13, Leonardo Fabian Grodek schreef: Hi, I'm planning to buy a new desktop PC and I want to be sure I will be able to run FG smoothly (I may also be doing some video editing, but that's for another forum). Which processor/graphic card will be the optimal combination, without braking my bank account? I was thinking on an Intel i5 (dual core or quad core?) Do I need the i7 series? For the graphics I'm thinking about the ATI Radeon HD 5670 or 5770; the 5770 is $100 more expensive, do I really need it? Are cheaper cards enough? ..the big deals are, How much paint can it pour?, and What can it do at the same time?, which would have you look at the iron's hardware configuration and its performance numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Radeon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_graphics_processing_units Disclaimer: I have a few pci and agp 9250's, a 9800 and a X850XT PE, both 8xAGP. I got ~5fps at 2048x1...@24bps on my first 9250 in a 2xAGP slot with the xorg radeon driver and an AMD k6-2 450MHz cpu back in the FGv1 days, too busy now with big oil litigation. ..try 4850 and up, these were high-end 2 or 3 years ago and are sold cheaply now, and I understand both open source drivers radeon: ... http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram and radeonhd has caught up with that hardware: http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd:feature http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd ..which goes where: http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Radeon ..UMS vs KMS: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Radeon http://www.phoronix.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-22617.html Make sure you have enough memory too. At least 4GB and a 64b OS seems nice. I am pretty sure the Core-i5 would do nicely. You can tell fgfs to use multiple CPU's in preferences.xml (look for 'multi' and read the comment in the file). ..i5 and i7 offers hyperthreading, which means 2 threads per core. HT goes way back, to high end 478 pin single core P4's. ..some Atom cpu's also offers 2 cores, and with HT, which means 4 threads per cpu. ..what else is out there, AMD 6 cores, how many threads? I would be suspicious of the ATI cards because there have been problems (see forum), but I am not fully up to date with the latest status. Perhaps someone else can comment on that. ..if you want to go with open source drivers, you need ATI cards. (Or Intel's.) ATI/AMD just like Nvidea has closed source drivers with the common closed source code problems, then ATI cards are also supported by open source radeonHD by Novell's team, and by X.org's own radeon driver, the latter 2 are essentially racing each other and ATI, so you may want to install all 3 drivers and feed all 3 teams bug reports, to speed up support for what you buy. ;o) http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeatureUMS http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature (KMS) http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Radeon -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Disappearing scenery
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 13:47:38 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message aanlktimo3_5jeaskpon6xq749v+wk=skstrqoebfb...@mail.gmail.com: Hi, maybe I can raise some more attention to a specific bug, which keeps me from using FG properly. I have also heard a number of other people complaining. If I could vote, I'd like to vote for this issue to be the currently most annoying FlightGear bug: ..I take the black box approach along the lines: _Is_ it a bug, or a feature of aircrew management etc traffic simulation, or a feature of the developing simulator, as in somebody is working on the destination scenery tiles during these long flights. Scenery tiles keep disappearing (when flying a longer distances), http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=122 It's very disappointing when you approach your destination airport, have the runway in sight, and then when you get too close, *whoosh* it just disappears into a patch of blue sky. ..can happen in RL too, this is when you swear a wee bit, pick up your flight plan and pick our best alternate destination from it just like the RL guys does. You can still try to land in the void - but it's certainly not much fun. ..depends, some of us likes to play these silly naughty rule torturous Counter Strike wild ass Doom kinda crazy games that in RL will earn you nice clean white cozy long sleeve shirt like it did Mathias Rust. ;o) You can keep flying - and then the scenery tiles sometimes reappear in the distance... ..maybe reload rebuilt-during-long-flights scenery tiles before we approach them? Takes a We-Have-The-Latest-Tile? check. To me this happens *very* often, feels like 50% of all longer distance flights. I'm not sure about the minimum distance it takes to trigger, maybe about more than 60miles from the original airport. So this keeps me from flying longer navigation routes. I can stay within a limited area around my departure airport to avoid this. But circling in one area gets boring soon... It applies to all platforms: tracker issue was raised for mac, I see it on Linux, and during the Frankfurt ATC sessions I've heard several people complaining with Windows systems. The tracker mentions FG 1.9.1 and 2.0.0 - and I also see it with the latest GIT. Maybe not everyone sees this issues - or not with the same high probability. .._which_ EDDC scenery tile? There are several, AFAIUI. I'm willing to help with testing and also debugging. But I don't know much about the FG scenery and graphics system - and don't want to start from scratch on my own. So, please, any help on this bug, any hints on what I could check, which FlightGear modules could be related, any ideas on how to locate this issue are welcome. ..first, play with your FG command line to reliably, reproduce the bug you see, and then post it here. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Disappearing scenery
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 16:57:11 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 20100918165711.24d2d...@a45.fmb.no: On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 13:47:38 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message aanlktimo3_5jeaskpon6xq749v+wk=skstrqoebfb...@mail.gmail.com: Hi, maybe I can raise some more attention to a specific bug, which keeps me from using FG properly. I have also heard a number of other people complaining. If I could vote, I'd like to vote for this issue to be the currently most annoying FlightGear bug: ..I take the black box approach along the lines: _Is_ it a bug, or a feature of aircrew management etc traffic simulation, or a feature of the developing simulator, as in somebody is working on the destination scenery tiles during these long flights. Scenery tiles keep disappearing (when flying a longer distances), http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=122 It's very disappointing when you approach your destination airport, have the runway in sight, and then when you get too close, *whoosh* it just disappears into a patch of blue sky. ..can happen in RL too, this is when you swear a wee bit, pick up your flight plan and pick our best alternate destination from it just like the RL guys does. You can still try to land in the void - but it's certainly not much fun. ..depends, some of us likes to play these silly naughty rule torturous Counter Strike wild ass Doom kinda crazy games that in RL will earn you nice clean white cozy long sleeve shirt like it did Mathias Rust. ;o) You can keep flying - and then the scenery tiles sometimes reappear in the distance... ..maybe reload rebuilt-during-long-flights scenery tiles before we approach them? Takes a We-Have-The-Latest-Tile? check. To me this happens *very* often, feels like 50% of all longer distance flights. I'm not sure about the minimum distance it takes to trigger, maybe about more than 60miles from the original airport. So this keeps me from flying longer navigation routes. I can stay within a limited area around my departure airport to avoid this. But circling in one area gets boring soon... It applies to all platforms: tracker issue was raised for mac, I see it on Linux, and during the Frankfurt ATC sessions I've heard several people complaining with Windows systems. The tracker mentions FG 1.9.1 and 2.0.0 - and I also see it with the latest GIT. Maybe not everyone sees this issues - or not with the same high probability. .._which_ EDDC scenery tile? There are several, AFAIUI. ..I of course meant EDDE. ;o) I'm willing to help with testing and also debugging. But I don't know much about the FG scenery and graphics system - and don't want to start from scratch on my own. So, please, any help on this bug, any hints on what I could check, which FlightGear modules could be related, any ideas on how to locate this issue are welcome. ..first, play with your FG command line to reliably, reproduce the bug you see, and then post it here. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D clouds flat instead of fluffy
On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:16:40 -0400, Gary wrote in message aanlktikcpogneb+aonmfgddctnkftfsyqv6evl+9g...@mail.gmail.com: Can anyone help with a 3D cloud issue? The clouds now display as identical flat gray panels instead of their usual realistic appearance. This has persisted for (guessing) 6-8 weeks now. Here are a couple screen shots to illustrate the problem- http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1671/3dclouds1.jpg http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8100/3dclouds2.jpg FlightGear and SimgGear are Gitorious 'next' branch, fgdata is Gitorious 'master'. ASUS A8V Deluxe motherboard, AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ CPU, 2G memory. Video card is ATI Radeon 9700 Pro AGP. OS is Slackware64 Linux, kernel 2.6.35.5, X.org open source video driver (not the ATI proprietary one) using KMS. ..which one, ati, radeon or radeonhd??? With a 9700 Pro, you should be using ati or radeon. (If you are, try radeonhd to see how that works, it _should_ fail.) ..ati is a wrapper for radeon, mach64 and r128, X should pick the right one for your card, but sometimes the automagic fails. ..you posted picture links, how about your log links? Any help with this is much appreciated. Gary -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D clouds flat instead of fluffy
On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 14:10:58 -0400, Gary wrote in message aanlktikrukm+kk2runqqklqcwymy1vjpuvi79n715...@mail.gmail.com: On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:16:40 -0400, Gary wrote in message aanlktikcpogneb+aonmfgddctnkftfsyqv6evl+9g...@mail.gmail.com: Can anyone help with a 3D cloud issue? The clouds now display as identical flat gray panels instead of their usual realistic appearance. This has persisted for (guessing) 6-8 weeks now. Here are a couple screen shots to illustrate the problem- http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1671/3dclouds1.jpg http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8100/3dclouds2.jpg FlightGear and SimgGear are Gitorious 'next' branch, fgdata is Gitorious 'master'. ASUS A8V Deluxe motherboard, AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ CPU, 2G memory. Video card is ATI Radeon 9700 Pro AGP. OS is Slackware64 Linux, kernel 2.6.35.5, X.org open source video driver (not the ATI proprietary one) using KMS. ..which one, ati, radeon or radeonhd??? With a 9700 Pro, you should be using ati or radeon. (If you are, try radeonhd to see how that works, it _should_ fail.) ..ati is a wrapper for radeon, mach64 and r128, X should pick the right one for your card, but sometimes the automagic fails. Hmm. It loads both ati and radeon modules, then the log output is tagged RADEON(0). So it must be using the radeon driver. They don't exactly make it easy to tell :-) It's not radeonhd, my card is pre-HD. ..you posted picture links, how about your log links? Good point. X server log: http://www.mediafire.com/?21cfo1sb4v6h694 ..I find a line '(**) RADEON(0): Option AccelDFS 1', which I suspect may correspond to an option line in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf (Option AccelDFS 1), try comment it out and see what happens. ..http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon says Option AccelDFS should be # 1/0 On for PCIE, off for AGP, http://www.x.org/wiki/radeon suggests there are changes in e.g. DFS that now stall things that used to work. ..http://www.free3d.org/ for X tweak benchmarks. ;o) ..your X log is taken after a FG run? Anything in dmesg output? FlightGear console output: http://www.mediafire.com/?w49t2gc4iihu6gg -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D clouds flat instead of fluffy
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 23:00:56 -0400, Gary wrote in message aanlktik08gtuv+ag=mc1-obtoz391ofyp0-mp1a1n...@mail.gmail.com: On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 14:10:58 -0400, Gary wrote in message aanlktikrukm+kk2runqqklqcwymy1vjpuvi79n715...@mail.gmail.com: On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:16:40 -0400, Gary wrote in message aanlktikcpogneb+aonmfgddctnkftfsyqv6evl+9g...@mail.gmail.com: Can anyone help with a 3D cloud issue? The clouds now display as identical flat gray panels instead of their usual realistic appearance. This has persisted for (guessing) 6-8 weeks now. Here are a couple screen shots to illustrate the problem- http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1671/3dclouds1.jpg http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8100/3dclouds2.jpg FlightGear and SimgGear are Gitorious 'next' branch, fgdata is Gitorious 'master'. ASUS A8V Deluxe motherboard, AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ CPU, 2G memory. Video card is ATI Radeon 9700 Pro AGP. OS is Slackware64 Linux, kernel 2.6.35.5, X.org open source video driver (not the ATI proprietary one) using KMS. ..which one, ati, radeon or radeonhd??? With a 9700 Pro, you should be using ati or radeon. (If you are, try radeonhd to see how that works, it _should_ fail.) ..ati is a wrapper for radeon, mach64 and r128, X should pick the right one for your card, but sometimes the automagic fails. Hmm. It loads both ati and radeon modules, then the log output is tagged RADEON(0). So it must be using the radeon driver. They don't exactly make it easy to tell :-) It's not radeonhd, my card is pre-HD. ..you posted picture links, how about your log links? Good point. X server log: http://www.mediafire.com/?21cfo1sb4v6h694 ..I find a line '(**) RADEON(0): Option AccelDFS 1', which I suspect may correspond to an option line in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf (Option AccelDFS 1), try comment it out and see what happens. Correct. I set it to 0, didn't seem to change anything. Xorg.0.log echoed the config line but there was no other diff from the previous log. ..1 0 are the PCIE settings, with your AGP 9700 Pro, you should be using off, according to the X gurus. Give it a try. ..http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon says Option AccelDFS should be # 1/0 On for PCIE, off for AGP, http://www.x.org/wiki/radeon suggests there are changes in e.g. DFS that now stall things that used to work. ..http://www.free3d.org/ for X tweak benchmarks. ;o) ..your X log is taken after a FG run? No, but I checked it again just now after running FG and nothing had been added. Anything in dmesg output? No, nothing there either. ..' dmesg |grep drm ' says what? I saw you use radeon.modeset=1 in your boot command, I use video=radeon:2048x1536-59.4, and I suspect a goof on my own part. Again, I appreciate you taking a look. You've given me good some ideas for further research, namely, looking at the KMS radeon driver sources for authoritative info on the different driver options. My config file hadn't been updated for a while and some of the options weren't even recognized any more. ..most of them were recognized but rejected by X. My impression is your AccelDFS setting was accepted where it IMNTHO should have been rejected. My other idea is to grovel through the FG code that loads/executes shaders, and look for something that indicates whether they worked or not - just plug in some calls to printf(), and try to see what's happening in there. ..aye. First I recommend weed out all X goofs. I have my current 2 FG boxes a 3.2GHz (hyperthreaded) P4 w X850XT-PE is slower than my single threaded Athlon XP 3000+ w 9800Pro, which is not much faster than my old AMD K-2 450_M_Hz w an 128 bit 9250 in a _2_x AGP slot, I should see a 10 to 30 times higher frame rate on my current gear with a similar success. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] line endings in GIT
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:35:33 +0200, Jari wrote in message 4cb358f5.3080...@flygarna.se: In subversion this is solved with svn property svn:eol-style set to 'native' for text files. When clients checks out files they will automatically get the eol-style appropriate for their OS. Subversion won't accept files with mixed line endings. Surely git has something similar? Jari ..yup, man|info gitattributes(5) is|was suggested in: http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/git/2009/11/22/16786/thread -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/beautyoftheweb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Build failed in Hudson: FlightGear-next-mac #233
On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1010160949040.2...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, Curtis Olson wrote: Gene, I'm a little confused by these emails. As best as I can tell they simply report that nothing has changed in git. Do we really need this posted to flightgear-devel? $ git whatchanged --no-abbrev -M --pretty=raw 9f9e86a61e1313963c9b961ed390cee3e967c659..9f9e86a61e1313963c9b961ed390cee3e967c659 FATAL: null Or a bug in your script? The idea was to have it announce new builds when a git commit was made that triggered a rebuild. The build system started choking on the Mac builds a while ago and I have no idea what's wrong with it - I didn't set it up. I'm hoping that James can take a peek when he gets the chance. I'll drop the Mac build server off the active list until then. ..we _used_ to have a cvslogs for cvs commits, maybe re-use that or set up a buildserverlogs list to post links to (y)our build server logs? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing: FSWeekend 2010
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:58:35 +0200, Torsten wrote in message 201010201358.35298.tors...@t3r.de: Hi All, I would just like to drop a note here, announcing that FSWeekend, the largest flight simulation event in Europe is coming up again. As in previous years, the event will be organized in the Aviodrome, the aviation museum at Lelystad (EHLE) airport, in the Netherlands. This year, the event will be held on Saturday 6, and Sunday November 7. Last week, I signed us up for having a booth again, and have already received confirmation that we're welcome. Last year we had one of the larger booths, and a pretty good show. I certainly hope to be able to improve upon that one. In addition to FSWeekend, a number of people, most notably Willie Flemming, have coined the idea of organizing a developer meeting / conference to coincide with FSWeekend. I am supportive of that idea, but unfortunatly lack the resources to assist in organizing such an event. However, speaking from past experience I do know that such meetings are typically a lot of fun, and I would most definitely welcome anybody who would like to join or participate in such an event. In any case, if you happen to be around and have some time available, please stop by for a quick chat with one of our booth staff members, and share your FlightGear experience with us. Hope to see you all in large numbers! :-) Cheers, Durk I am very proud to announce that German hardware vendor Thomas-Krenn AG has sponsored a workstation to help us present the latest and cooles features of FlightGear at this year's FSWeekend. The machine specs are, well, insane: dual Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5690 @ 3.47GHz, total of 24 cores ..2 cpus x 6 cores/cpu x 2 threads/core = 24 threadsss, ;o) 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' will mention ht on the 24 flags lines. A wee hint that FG should run on more than one thread? ;o) 12GB RAM ..this will do for running FG from ram disk, just try it, e.g. off a Knoppix style Live-CD, boot it with toram, then do the aptitude update ;aptitude install flightgear \ ;aptitude clean ;fgfs dance and _enjoy_. ;o) four nvidia GTX460 with 2GB RAM each. enough harddrive space, sound, DVD, etc., etc. http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation1.jpg http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation2.jpg http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation3.jpg (how many DVI adaptors do you count? Yes, eight!) ..and 4 VGA too. A dozen screens to make a nice igloo? ;o) We met the nice guys of Thomas-Krenn AG at this year's LinuxTag where we were almost booth neighbours. Durk, Martin and I visited the their headquarter a few weeks ago. We received a very warm welcome and had the oppertunity to visit the entire company. If you are in the need for professional server- or workstation hardware, you might want to consider visiting http://www.thomas-krenn.com/ and support our supporters. ..and they sell 18 screen setups... ;o) If you were still looking for an excuse to fly into Amsterdam and visit FSWeekend, this machine definitely is one! Cheers, Torsten -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Help needed for Flight Gear compilation
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 22:27:55 +0800, Deborah wrote in message aanlktikz6lrabrhpkhgxyza0d=ag8gzzjzre++ax1...@mail.gmail.com: Hi guys, This is a *second* email in case the first one with the mathematical models do not get through: ..try put your math models on a web site and post your link here. I've previously posted on the FG forum but was directed here by Hooray in hopes of finding more immediate here :) Just a quick introduction for you guys who probably just heard from me for the first time: I am a final year student who is doing her Final Year Project on incorporating wind shear conditions on Flight Gear. ..sweet. ;o) Ground effect too? I am currently using a Windows 7 PC ..hum. , some of specifications include: 1) Intel (R) core i5 CPU @ 3.2GHz ..8 sweet wee penguins, if you boot any decent Live CD|dvd|USB. ;o) 2) 4GB RAM 3) 64 bit OS 4) ATI Radeon Graphics Card (1GB) ..which card? You only need it for your FG flight etc tests, not to build or edit FG. Which again means you can build FG on whatever Cray, cluster or what-have-you FG-build machinery _while_ you test-fly your latest FG builds, you probably wanna compare your tests. I've currently installed Flight Gear, am trying to start the first building process which I am following instructions from http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Building_FlightGear_-_Windows ..much of this is _old_dated_ news, unless you want to build FG-0.9. You _probably_ want to build FG straight out of Git, this is where the action is, and we have a few FG developers on FG on Windows. Latest boost is 1.44.0, latest boost in Debian is 1.42, well worth going with the latest boost etc. Have installed Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Express and have followed all the instructions on the site above (including installing Git and Tortoise SVN), everything went okay until I reached the part that says Getting SVN headers and Getting OpenSceneGraph Getting SVN headers: I am unsure as to where to find that library the site mentions, in order to extract and include into the 3rd party folder Getting OpenSceneGraph: I tried linking a folder named OpenSceneGraph in my FG root directory to the URL specified but keep getting a rejection warning saying Error: Can't create directory 'C:\Program Files (x86)\FlightGear\OpenSceneGraph\.svn': Error: Access is denied. .._can_ you access this file??? _Is_ it there? If it's there, chk your file attributes for file ownership etc, the build is clearly expecting to find _something_ there, and touch $filename _sometimes_ works by creating an empty file which _might_ change the error message on your next try. ..it could also be trying to access hardware in a way Microsoft or W7 think is wrong, in some new way to MSVS2010E, see my WAG disclaimer below. ..wild ass guess disclaimer: I have built software _only_ on Debian Sid. I'm kinda at my wits end, being really new to this software developing process but I need to finish my project probably by February next year. And this is only the beginning. I would really appreciate any form of help or suggestions as to how I can go about doing this in another, hopefully simpler way. ..your hardware looks ok, I only see a problem with your choice of OS and tool suite vendor and their (overt and covert) policies on GPL licensed projects, and, what I guess is your lack of experience with GNU/Linux tools, and, your deadline, you probably don't want to delay it for a year or so to learn linux to the level I guess you now know MSW7. ..Wintendo95 cost me 2 years worth of RD and fancy degree thesis work on thermochemical gasification, so I'm blank on that and their later shit. I went the GNU way with SuSE-5.2, then Red Hat-5.2 thru 9.3, I'm now on Debian Sid Experimental since Woody. ..Ubuntu-10.10 is _probably_ where you wanna start if you come straight or freshly new burnt from the Microsoft world, softer start than Debian, and far less tools to go _wildly_ confused about trying to learn to choose from, I hear freedom of choice is quite a challenge for freedom newbies. ;o) ..I wouldn't be surprised to learn somebody has made a GUI tool suite SDK that works like Microsoft's, nor would I know it if I ever saw it, I simply don't know Microsoft's tools. ;o) ..Ubuntu is easily upgraded to Debian by simply replacing Ubuntu's mirror urls with Debian's in the /etc/apt tree and simply issuing aptitude update aptitude dist-upgrade, beware of the freedom. ;o) I really appreciate the help and even just reading this email, and I really hope to hear from you guys soon! :) Many advance thanks! :) ..well, I only offer ideas. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies
Re: [Flightgear-devel] METAR stopped working
On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 12:23:33 -0600, Ron wrote in message 201011061223.33277.w...@jentronics.com: I looked at the NOAA site last night. http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/data/observations/metar/stations/ There are some seriously old metar files mixed in there! http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/data/observations/metar/stations/ENLU.TXT for example, is from 02 JUN 2007! It would be nice if someone could figure out a way to guard against that! ..easy now; how do we do historical weather? Or rather, how _should_ we do historical weather? E.g. of interest to air crash investigations? Custom event mp-servers? I understand you guys has set up a few air show mp servers here. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear for x64 (Windows)
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:57:50 +0100 (CET), Frederic wrote in message 2890439.8451961288997870212.javamail.r...@spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.net: The x64 platform is only available in the Professional Edition of VS2008. Did you manage to build the solution inside the IDE ? Google is your friend : http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/324846/the-resolvevcprojectoutput-task-failed-unexpectedly-when-building-projects-in-parallel-msbuild Try the command : msbuild FlightGear.sln /p:Configuration=Release /p:Platform=x64 (without the /m switch) ..this will work for Deborah's Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Express 64bit FG builds too? ..if not, what else is out there? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Editions_feature_grid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_integrated_development_environments#C.2FC.2B.2B http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_toolchain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygwin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinGW http://mingw-w64.sourceforge.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Emacs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war ;o) ..what _is_ Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Express really, as an IDE, a GUI front end for other tools, like Emacs et al are for the GNU etc tool chains? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSWeekend2010
On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 15:11:47 +0100, fiers...@zonnet.nl wrote in message 4cd80523.6090...@zonnet.nl: It is a pity, people always find ways to nick stuff... ..I seriously doubt nicking the 3D filter glasses was an intention, but the tradition on such business fairs and trade shows, is indeed to hand out similar cheap things, as gifts. ..so we must either factor in that cost next time, or, come up with better ideas. ..maybe put these 3D filter glasses on strings and have FG check the stand guest pilot for 3D glasses or not? and use that to control FG's view modes? ..another 3D Mode idea, is use a coupla web cameras to track the pilot's eyes, and use the eye positions to control FG's view holes into the simulated world. Do you need me to chip in some euro's to compensate? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 15:33:45 -, Mally wrote in message 659018fab24b48ae85bc8d943d15e...@chuchote: ?I've just had an advert for FlightSimPro prominently displayed on my FaceBook home page: ..url? QUOTE New Flight Simulator flightprosim.com Learning how to work the new flight simulator is very easy. You get 100% freedom, amazing scenery and a sophisticated Sky Model. UNQUOTE What is the current state of play with this from a legal point of view, and what is the current feeling towards this 'product' within the FlightGear community? Apologies if this has already been discussed, but maybe a high-profile ad campaign on FaceBook justifies a little more reflection? From an initial scan through their site and the GPL licence, it seems to me that there are some legal areas are at least worthy of investigation, and that says nothing of the ethics. Oh, and if I click the x button to the right of the ad, I get the option to report it to FaceBook. Do I have any specific grounds for doing this other than my general sense of distaste? ..if you have written any FG code, then you own it, it's called copyright, and it forms the legal teeth of the GPL. If flightprosim.com offers your source code under the GPL, they may be in compliance with the GPL. If they don't, and distribute etc your code only as binaries under some proprietary EULA without your permission, they are in criminal violation of copyright law. ..and then we have Facebook's role in this. My advice is, hire a lawyer. ;o) My understanding is Facebook will want to help seize _your_ money from flightprosim.com, and then there's the tremble damages and legal costs. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Local weather: Clouds redrawn
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:00:02 +0100, fiers...@zonnet.nl wrote in message 4cda9752.3020...@zonnet.nl: Hi All, I have been in an exchange of messages with Thorsten (http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5t=7358p=101746#p101746 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5t=7358p=101746#p101746) about a problem that I have with the local weather in GIT versions (all GIT versions lately in fact). Clouds are drawn and I can wait for that initially. But when I change the angle of view, clouds are drawn for the new angle of view. When I 'turn my head'back to the previous angle, the clouds that were already drawn are gone and get redrawn. The same clouds in the same place. In this video, you can see for yourself what I mean: http://www.easy-share.com/1912919971/Clouds03.mpg Needless to say this is bad for realism. My FPS is not a problem. The effect occurs when the frame rate is above 40 fps. ..test ideas; cap your FG at 40fps, or back off a wee bit on your X framerate. X and FG window sizes? My machine is a 4 core (8 threads) 12GB ram machine running 64b Linux and an nVidea9800 graphics card. FGFS is run in mulithreading mode. I am flying as I type this. No processor is 100% busy and memory consumption is only 2.2GB (of which 1GB for fgfs) in total. I have 59 fps at this moment. ..it _could_ be your video card is the bottleneck here, I had a similar problem (angular white texture holes) that I cured easing my X framerate down from 59Hz to 58.8Hz. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 23:46:20 -, Vivian wrote in message 3c9574cdcbb34cc5b329545212bec...@main: Mally wrote ?Arnt I think I have maybe one or two lines of code in FG... I helped fix a bug many moons ago. But I like to keep my interest in case there's anything I can offer in the future. ..one step ahead of me then. :o) Anyway, it's not really about that, and maybe in fact I should not concern myself with this issue given that I really have effectively no direct interest. ..wrong, your _undue_ passivity builds a legal prejudice and precedence. The Jews were gassed because they had no defense arriving Auschwitz, effectively a _due_ passivity, since they had no weapons, and therefore no choice in _their_ final matter. ..FG on the other hand, does have weapons with teeth, Copyright Law, as the GPL walks away on violations, and the facts. Now, copyright law enforcement history, is also a discoverable fact in litigation. It still bugs me to see they way this is being touted though. Does anyone else have any thoughts? Regarding the URL, simple it's www.facebook.com (as you know) but FaceBook is far from a static page, all composed on the fly and dynamically thereafter using ajax and whatever, so there's no URL I can ..url to your facebook page? Would be the useful one url I meant. ;o) usefully give you. The advert is no longer there for me, though I do have a saved copy of the page with it on, plus a screenshot. Has anyone else seen it? ..nope, url to your screenshot? This topic raises its head every couple of months or so. So far as we can see FlightProSimm is being offered in accordance with the terms of GPL, ..where precisely does flightprosim.com, or Charles Taylor, or swiftco.net, offer source code under the GPL? so here is not a lot we can do. Caveat emptor. It is an affiliate scheme, which is very close to a pyramid scheme. ..if it adds _any_ new required condition to the conditions set under the GPL, _that_ new condition is a violation of the GPL and copyright law. It is indeed annoying to see people trying to make money out of our work. ..and annoyingly irrelevant too. ;oD However, they are offering some added value by selling FG on DVD, ..how? That _may_ be another violation of the GPL. and we can take some satisfaction from the thought that they are perhaps spreading FG wider than we could by our own efforts. Vivian ..I disagree, until a lawyer is hired by FG or a copyright owner, the best way forward, is contact _anyone_ who publishes FlightProSim reviews, and their advertisers, etc, and ask them to explain Why In The World are they endorsing and promoting software piracy. And _loudly_. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book Blueprint to a Billion shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 11:32:08 -0800, Hal wrote in message 201011101132.09107.hven...@gmail.com: On Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:23:22 am Arnt Karlsen wrote: However, they are offering some added value by selling FG on DVD, ..how? That may be another violation of the GPL. This is specifically allowed by the GPL which allows for charging for media, reproduction and distribution costs. ..correct, assuming there is a real offer of source code under the GPL. My question is, _do_ they offer the source as required under the GPL? ..adding other added value item, e.g. screenshots, how-to's etc, is either done in compliance with each copyright owner license, or in violation of it, and some owners use the GPL there too, hence my may be. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 01:20:37 -, Mally wrote in message ace4bad9dffe47aabb425ffa69afa...@chuchote: ? My question is, _do_ they offer the source as required under the GPL? Yes, they offer the full source code. Does this offer meet the full requirements ..yes, this far, no with GPLv3. of how it is to be delivered? ..err, that can be tested, a simple request and then see what happens. I've no idea, but I do recall seeing a particular clause which I thought may not have been met. I don't have time right now to go back and look again, but I will if people here think there is any mileage in following any of this up. ..as long as it is onlf a reasonable cost-of-media matter... -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:59:12 -0600, Gene wrote in message aanlkti=wpr+y9jdz1rlreaj4nqwxup2w3xrxmzh43...@mail.gmail.com: They are not claiming a copyright - they are claiming that FPS is copyrighted and protected under the United States and other World Wide Copyright Laws Which is an absolutely *true* statement. ..it _depends_, they are in fact _suggesting_ in a murky way they and not FG owns what they call FPS copyright. They only own what they themselves has written or bought. It is a true statement intended to deceive and mis-lead ..which is a fraudulent act under criminal laws most places. - but none-the-less, completely true. I think they just point at flightgear when asked for the source - which probably does *not* fulfill the letter of the GPL. ..and that can be tested. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:25:14 +0100, Citronnier wrote in message 4cdc0ada.6020...@gmail.com: Ron Jensen a écrit : On Thursday 11 November 2010 03:36:02 Mally wrote: ?Arnt ..url to your facebook page? Would be the useful one url I meant. ;o) Effectively, once I'm logged in, the URL to my personal facebook page is still just http://www.facebook.com/ . Unless you're logged in as me, you're not going to see what I see on the page anyway, and there's no way that even I can get the page to show me the advert again. Each refresh and it's something different. http://www.facebook.com/pages/FlightProSim-The-Real-Life-Flying-Simulator/172036536145550?v=wall Mmmh, interresting. And why do they use an A-6E screenshot I have made me-my-own-self ? Nah, I just sent to Facebook an inquiry for copyright infringement :-) ..WTG. :o) Guys, have a look at the photo albums, because if we find and claim several copyright infringements, they may see their page removed from FB. ..and Facebook may help us _recover_ tremble damages. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Local weather: Clouds redrawn
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 07:58:08 +0100, fiers...@zonnet.nl wrote in message 4cdb9400.1090...@zonnet.nl: I limited the frame rate to 30, used a smaller window. No difference. ..any change when you play with X Window frame rates and X desktop size? _They_ are still drawn at your full X Window xorg.conf Modeline controlled speeds, even when you play with FG frame rates and FG window sizes, and both X and FG are drawn by the same iron. Also check that you use the same color space for these 2. However, I noticed that with fewer clouds the effect disappeared. There seems to be a relation with cloud density. ..very possible, and at least a symptom. Another thing I noticed: While I am changing the viewing angle, the log window show errors. First a lot of Warning: TangentSpaceGenerator: unknown primitive mode 9 followed by several lines of Unknown Chunk: ***UNKNOWN*** (0xA08A) I assume this has something to do with the scenery. ..guess so, dunno the details, obivously when you zoom out, FG sees more scenery, zooming in, less, and with more detail, if you have _and_ load high detail models. Could it be related? ..dunno really, in my case I saw random texture holes flicker white, and I was at the card's 250MHz bandwidth limit trying to push 2048x1536x32|24@59Hz into the screen wire, it went beyond the FG window and all over the X desktop, I believe it was when I put my first Radeon 9250 into my Athlon XP 3000+ box, it's been a coupla years since it got my Radeon 9800Pro. (Or was that when FG messed up X diagonally on it?) m Op 10-11-10 19:01, Arnt Karlsen schreef: ..test ideas; cap your FG at 40fps, or back off a wee bit on your X framerate. X and FG window sizes? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:50:03 +0100, Robin wrote in message 4cdc1ebb.4050...@stoneynet.nl: I am not sure whether the content *generated* by a GPL-licensed program (such as FlightGear generating screenshots) would have to be licensed under the GPL as well. ..it's the When I push the button on my camera, a picture is generated, who owns it? case. ;o) To be honest, I doubt it, because a lot of GPL-licensed tools are used to generate copyrighted content, even including Hollywood movie blockbusters! ..the picture making art, is in how each picture is composed, not in how it's read off the image chip or written to disk. (Those 2 technological arts are usually covered by patents.) And Hollywood too is loud on copyright. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Local weather: Clouds redrawn
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 19:26:04 +0100, Tim wrote in message aanlktikrympzsrjy8ontu7vq8lv-o2tjr+rqqax4o...@mail.gmail.com: On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 07:58:08 +0100, fiers...@zonnet.nl wrote in message 4cdb9400.1090...@zonnet.nl: I limited the frame rate to 30, used a smaller window. No difference. ..any change when you play with X Window frame rates and X desktop size? _They_ are still drawn at your full X Window xorg.conf Modeline controlled speeds, even when you play with FG frame rates and FG window sizes, and both X and FG are drawn by the same iron. Also check that you use the same color space for these 2. Uh, what? ..last time I ran FG, I found ut it ran 16 bit colors on my 24|32 bit X, I didn't add the --bpp=depth Specify the bits per pixel, and on ATI cards it used to matter. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:26:07 +0800, Innis wrote in message blu131-w26c667f2685c89ddeb94d6df...@phx.gbl: Hi Chris I would let it go mate. While I feel no better about people making money off my work I also feel that it is pretty much or own fault. ..you are here giving him a license to carry on. While you are entitled to license out your own works as you please, you would need the other peoples license to license out their works. The only way you are going to stop this guy is to make it a pain in the arse for him. Until we are prepared to fight fire with fire by releasing our own commercial copy then he has an open field. With the depth of talent we have here surely we could come up with a water making system that causes him some headaches.Even if it only causes him to spend an hour extra each time. While we sit and belly ache about it he will just continue so the ball is in our court. Cheers Innis -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightProSim advert on FaceBook
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:21:41 -0800 (PST), Chris wrote in message 429654.31507...@web56904.mail.re3.yahoo.com: Another avenue I have considered is a New Zealand consumer affairs program named Fair Go. This TV show has an excellent track record of exposing scammers, and sticking up for those who are being shafted by scammers. The format is a group of presenters who research claims of unfair treatment, then in many cases try to confront the scammers - thats the part where the scammers usually turn tail and run or get aggro towards the camera. Quite often however the scammers cave in to the unwanted media pressure and relent, paying back money they've misappropriated, or as the name of the program suggests, delivering a Fair Go. Those extra prickly scammers who outright refuse often find themselves in court, as the Fair Go team have a number of legal guys at their disposal, to advise on cases considered worthy of elevating to the law courts. Fair Go have taken on anyone from dodgy car dealers, to Microsoft. If the team at Fair Go think it is a case worthy of pursuing, they'll do it with gusto, harassing scammers, and making a laughing stock of them on TV. Not good PR for the scammers. Check out youtube clips with a search fair go nz to see how the show operates. Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. ..now we're getting constructive. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Hey Curt... :)
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:57:14 +, James wrote in message 0275fe52-84ce-4e88-a29c-b1382f3ae...@mac.com: On 12 Nov 2010, at 23:44, Curtis Olson wrote: My personal rule-of-thumb is to only commit when I've got time to watch the Hudson board go green - it's on an hourly poll at the moment, though we can allow other users to manually kick off builds, if you ask Gene nicely. How do you get a change over to hudson before committing it to git? (maybe a dumb question?) Ah, sorry to disappoint, but you have to commit to Git first - unlike some setups, we haven't engineered a 'compile before publish' system. Hence my ensuring I have time to watch Hudson *after* a commit, and, for example, make a fix commit if I broke something. ..an idea; a bad commit that doesn't compile successfully, can it be reverted automatically? That way git would stay unbroken, until new unbroken code is added etc and compiles successfully. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Centralized Desktop Delivery: Dell and VMware Reference Architecture Simplifying enterprise desktop deployment and management using Dell EqualLogic storage and VMware View: A highly scalable, end-to-end client virtualization framework. Read more! http://p.sf.net/sfu/dell-eql-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator The Most Realistic
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 19:06:42 +0100, Torsten wrote in message 201011171906.43001.tors...@t3r.de: Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point. Lets move forward with putting something onto the main FlightGear page. Stuart, you mentioned a faq you had drafted? I think it's all here: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=206864.11472...@web26005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ..last question: Q: I have purchased Flight Pro Sim. Can I get a refund ? A: That is something you will have to take up with the distributors of Flight Pro Sim. ..maybe A: Ask your lawyer. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 00:03:20 +0100, ThorstenB wrote in message aanlktikpx4+f=+esonhdyuzegluthey5tn1ywo8oj...@mail.gmail.com: If you refer to the fps _before_ the splash screen is dropped, then this is normal. So far, we were burning CPU time at 100fps while the splash screen was active. This is now explicitly limited to 2 fps to give more CPU time to the loader threads. This results in a considerable loading speed-up for single core CPUs. And rendering a splash screen at 100fps didn't really help too much anyway - except for the dramatic fps rate display. ..maybe either hide the fps display or use it to tell what's going on until the splash screen events are all done? Either approach would keep us from turning away the 2 fps in a Flight Sim??? Forget it!!!-crowd. ..the splash screen events, _are_ actually the first few impressions new people get, e.g. reviewers doing reviews. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:37:08 + (GMT), Heiko wrote in message 749593.33206...@web29520.mail.ird.yahoo.com: But maybe the first seconds will prevent us from new users? ..only a few odd Wintendo game review writers on tight deadlines, I guess, so I suspect it is worth fixing, say with e.g. a fps display loading message. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Weather, Nredering and environment bugs
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 12:42:25 +0100, ManDay wrote in message 4ce905a1.2070...@gmx.net: -- Please reply in CC -- ..you mean cc:man...@gmx.net like I did here? I wanted to report a few issues with weather and environment in the current GIT 1.) If you pause the game, change time of day and unpause, the time goes back to where it was before pausing 2.) When you start FG with 3d clouds enabled cloufs look flat and ugly. Once you disable and reenable 3d clouds from rendering options they look nice fluffy and bump mapped 3.) With 3d clouds enabled cloud coverage looks unrealistic. When you enable 3 clouds you will have a blue sky with a few fuffy clouds even in a thunderstorm with rain. No matter what you do, cloud coverage will remain little. 4.) The cloud density option has no effect 5.) None of the Options in Lightning have any effect 6.) Only percipitation in Objects appears to have effect. Not sure about the others, but it should be looked into. I'm not sure what they are actually supposed to do, so I can't really check. 7.) The problem is that 3d clouds and 2d clouds appear to be mutually exclusive. 3D clouds, apparently unable to achieve anything cloudy beyond a blue sky with a few light clouds should server as an addition to 2d clouds to make the overall weather look more realistic. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports ..which fgfs, which OS or OS, which cpu, which videocard and which video card drivers, and your log URLs, when you ask for help, if you're on Wintendo, some of the other guys here may be able to help you, I ditched MSW95 13 years ago. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Collimation...(OT)
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:03:02 -0800 (PST), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1011240440240.14...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Curtis Olson wrote: *VERY* cool stuff, and not OT at all!!! Are you going to sell kits? ..mylar space blanket type metall foil? Round the edges around the bath tub and paint the box to throttle the diffuse air leaks so you can fly non-jet aircraft with due realism. ;o) Not a chance. We're not even sure if we can give plans away. ..those plans are your works of art. ..drawing plans or writing an How-to-make-your-own does not violate any patents, if it merely teaches the interested hobbyist or student of technology, how to exercise a patent to make his own screen for his own education and entertainment. ..if the interested hobbyist sells _many_ of these and either makes a profit or causes a commercial loss to the patent holder or anyone of his licensees, there may be a patent infringement. ..patents are meant to promote science and the arts by granting the innovator a timed monopoly on the commercial exercise of the patent and to anyone he licenses by giving or selling etc a patent license to. We referenced a few active patents in the mirror itself. ..patent numbers, please? The next iteration we're going to try to eliminate that. If we can't, we'll try contacting the grantees to see if they'll grant a limited, hobbyist use license. ..ok, seeing the videos (they are getting viral ;o)), I got a coupla ideas of my own, so I want to see the patents first, and then talk. ;o) ..beware that posting an idea here on this list, probably renders that idea un-patentable, because posts this list are open to the general public and therefore published. ..such posting can also be used to shoot down a patent application by simply timestamping it as published. If we don't find a solution, all we can do is point folks at the source data with the caveat that they've got to figure out the details themselves. ..those details are in the patent text and images. I'll know more on this for sure on Saturday when Wayne I can spend some time on it. Wayne has developed some insanely cool tools using Excel that spits out geometry data based on a few inputs - I'm hoping we can release those at some point. That would be up to Wayne though. ..these are Wayne's own works under his own copyright. ;o) Neat negotiation card on the patent holder, we can make and share a profit, _together_. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FPS, PFS etc - youtube comments - spam/not spam...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 21:14:50 +0100, ThorstenB wrote in message aanlktinrxn-lxv42t=r11d6lazimdazlgmbtxuqqt...@mail.gmail.com: ..interesting. Somebody is covering up this not-a-fraud by handling our fraud tips, as spam. Sounds to me like an intentional fraudulent abuse of such powers. I'm not sure clicking no spam really helps - it might not be a simple voting system. Also, it seems only comments from specific users were marked as spam - while other FG comments stick. Yes, maybe someone did that manually and missed some. But I suspect it might be a YouTube-anti-spam-O-matic at work. Maybe these identical comments were posted too often at too many videos - so they get caught... But I'm still seeing lots of FG comments at the FPS videos - and if we all add some YouTube comments every now and then this will help a lot. Also, when you watch any of these sleazy FlightPS videos, then YouTube already suggests to watch several FlightGear videos next - since these videos are titled FProSim is FlightGear etc. So this works really great! Maybe we can make some of our FPS is FG videos really, really popular (many hits + recommendations), so they stay at the top of the YouTube's suggested related videos for any FPS video. Eventually, we may raise a lot more attention to FG... cheers, Thorsten On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Mally wrote: ?I've just been scanning a few of the comments posted on youtube where the various FPS publicity videos have been posted, and I noticed that all the FlightGear.nl comments had been marked as Spam (we can probably guess who by). Well obviously as well as posting a few comments myself (recommending google searches, links are apparently not allowed), I've also taken the opportunity to mark the spam comments from FG NL as Not Spam. I guess spam/not spam thing works this by some sort of voting system, so obviously if you happen to be cruising by one of these videos, click the this comment has been marked as spam entries and then click the not spam button if appropriate. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Flight Pro Sim Statement
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:10:19 +0100, Gijs wrote in message dub102-w12a229e288e123c22a53c5d3...@phx.gbl: In order to promote our statement, I've created a YouTube video, explaining some basic things about FlightSimPro and the like, and reference the viewers to our statement. If we all vote thumbs up on this video, add it to our public playlists, make it favourits etc., it will come up higher in the search results and thus be more visible to potential buyers. It's already third in row when searching for FlightSimPro! The video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6LAWlRaydo Comments/ideas on the content of the video are welcome of course. ..links on the right now adds real to the pro sim flight name pieces, the scammer builds sim names from. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] SegFault on Current Git
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 00:18:12 -0800, Jeff wrote in message 4cfb4ac4.4030...@gmail.com: On 02/12/10 12:05 AM, Tim Moore wrote: Can you move up the stack into SGText::UpdateCallback::operator() and see what is being passed to createUTF8EncodedString? Thanks, Tim OK, this is bugging me. I needed to recompile OSG with debugging symbols, so I did a pull from SVN first, which apparantly fixed the segfault (must've been a bug in OSG). Now it starts, but strangely my system hard locks (frozen mouse, frozen screen) a few minutes after starting, which means that this is almost certainly a bug in the Intel display drivers. It looks like I'll have to escalate to the people responsible for maintaining those drivers, but honestly, I don't know where to begin. The system hard locks without leaving any trace. All the log files I've checked show nothing from the time of the crash, and of course I can't use the debugger to determine what state the program was in at the time of the crash. ..if you run the crashing compile over a ssh session, you should be able to the output at least until the ssh session dies. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- What happens now with your Lotus Notes apps - do you make another costly upgrade, or settle for being marooned without product support? Time to move off Lotus Notes and onto the cloud with Force.com, apps are easier to build, use, and manage than apps on traditional platforms. Sign up for the Lotus Notes Migration Kit to learn more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/salesforce-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] More flightprosim offshoots
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:52:46 +1100, George wrote in message aanlktimt=gepene5hdgvv+vn-qhv5ua1rmoa9spe2...@mail.gmail.com: On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 2:17 AM, Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de wrote: Hi, http://www.airbusflightsimulator.com/index.html http://www.airbusflightsimulator.com/buy-flight-simulator.html http://www.airbusflightsimulator.com/flight-simulator-planes.html A mail to Airbus should be enough to deal with! This domain name is registered to Wodonga, in Victoria Australia, contact email address is a web design company (velvetmice.com). So yes, a email to Airbus could be the best way to deal with it. Especially when they are making it sound as though their 'solution' is a certified flight simulator. ..just so we are on the same page here: Exactly how are they making it sound as though their 'solution' is a certified flight simulator? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] pirates
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 01:04:45 -0800 (PST), Chris wrote in message 300587.75998...@web161610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com: That might prevent the scammers from adopting the latest source code, but unfortunately they appear to be using v1.9.x as the base for their commercial product - because it is a scam they may not care that they aren't using the latest version of flightgear so long as they are ripping people off. Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. ..an half baked solution could be using the multiplayer servers to listen for these pirated products and to advice their victims of their legal rights rights under copyright law, this obviously misses the single isolated players. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:00:02 +, Chris wrote in message 1295020802.2363.13.camel@chris-desktop: I love the contradictory passages: - ProFlightSimulator is an open source stand alone Flight Simulator. - Customer support is only an email away (Open source products do not offer any support) They say open source projects don’t offer support (despite FlightGear offering community support through the mailing lists and forums), but then they say ProFlightSimulator is open source, but offers email support? ..only takes passing on the scamster's support email to some naive nearby community, say with some sed scripting adapting names to each helpful entity. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:46:04 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message ih134s$q03c$1...@osprey.mgras.de: Harry Campigli wrote: Could I ask if any one has had FG or for that matter any app on a linux box running in a ramdisk environment with no Hd? Why, its fast to boot, [...] ..I have, a few years back, quickest way this far was simply put FG on a remade Knoppix style iso on harddisk ;o), then boot that image from:/path/to/iso toram, AFAIR, this was before Knoppix knew how to keep data past reboots and on 384MB + swap. ;o) ..Debian Live, is the way to go here, it's a lot easier to set up. Also possible to play with clustering, single boxes has hardware limits that can be piled way up in clusters. ;o) I might be getting your intention wrong, yet I suspect you forgot to add the time required to fill the ram disk from, well, from network. ..takes a Gigabit or better nic to beat reading an harddisk to ram. Are you really talking about ramdisk, in the sense of use a portion of RAM and mount it as a filesystem or maybe flash-disk instead ? ..ooo, SSDs would be wicked fast, though. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG in ramdisk from a net boot
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:56:15 +0800, Harry wrote in message AANLkTi=8thXo9cAkqJVTO3VugLv58rye=Tb1V6f=v...@mail.gmail.com: Thanks gents, Bearing in mind I only want these installations to run FG and supporting apps. I had a look at ssd prices today, maybe its time for a rethink. seems there a a lot of small 32g 2.5 sata ones for around the 70usd mark. Infact there are even cheaper ones but they seem to be a lot slower in access times. USB thumb sticks are not so much cheaper for similar sizes For that kind of money a small sata ssd is maybe a more sensible aproach than trying to load a ramdisk? Just normal distro sata install but all of hard disk issues are done away with. I am having a play with LTSP, and have downloaded Knoppix, and now am having a look at the re mastering information, it looks good. I will take some time to learn a bit and play with it. I did not consider live boot cds before, I did not see the potential in what I passed off as a demo gimmic. ..a coupla years ago, it _was_ a gimmick. ;o) But it might be the way to go if used in a stick. I can use the PXE to work around these weird Kingston 8g sticks I have that wont boot. ..if you like Knoppix re-mastering, you will _love_ playing with the Debian Live builder tools, which IMHO makes Knoppix obsolete. ..I have no experience with LTSP, but this _sounds_ like a Right Way, it and PXE etc support apps can easily be put on a Debian Live SSD usb stick to throw around automagic Wow shows, ala Can I try boot that laptop to the left off this usb stick to see if it can run FlightGear properly, you know with flyable framerates?. ;o) ..some mall shops have these nice big walls with dozens of TV etc screens, running GPL firmware... ;o) Cheers.Harry -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FLightProScam
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:38:57 +1100, George wrote in message aanlktiksza+vznavs2ctemixzdaz9dnrbfq4zdgbp...@mail.gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: On Mon, 2011-01-17 at 18:57 -0500, r...@aol.com wrote: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=667522#post667522 Thought you'd find this interesting Sure, the guy you quoted it only posts scam related posts to that forum: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/search.php?searchid=4697108 Erik It must be time to get someone banned for spamming :-) Good to see a forum moderator who is on the ball. ..he is? Url? Meanwhile, I submit POA's FAQ: ;o) http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_faq_rules_of_conduct -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] reflect mapping
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:55:38 -0600, Curtis wrote in message aanlktimc5y8rkxe-hugxoashsbuoqrn_jfv+j-xrk...@mail.gmail.com: On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:09 AM, syd adams wrote: Hi guys , I've been experimenting with the reflection effect ... I don't know who originally added them , but could someone with write access set the Aircraft/Generic/Effects/CubeMaps' textures to correct texture sizes so Flightgear doesn't have to rescale them every load ? Hi Syd, I haven't seen that anyone has bit on your request. I agree there are a lot of weird texture sizes in there (256x257, etc.) If you wanted to resize them, I would be willing to commit them to the repository. Then we are each only partially responsible if they get screwed up and we can blame the other guy. :-) Is there an alpha layer to these textures (I'm guessing not) ... if there is no alpha layer, then resizing them should be pretty straightforward ... but I hesitate because I don't know if they are carefully designed to mesh together and if resizing them could screw that up? On the other hand, if OSG is resizing them on the fly, then it's probably using a really dumb algorithm, so we should be ok. I almost (but not quite) talked myself into just doing it all myself. :-) I'll still commit them if someone else wants to resize them. ..that probably means first do a full git checkout so I can build FG-git/FG-2.2 and use it to test my resizing stunts and check out that FG-2.0 bug I found, how much disk space do I need now? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Head-UP: FGrun translations
On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:19:37 +0100 (CET), Frederic wrote in message 32132876.1461071295615977643.javamail.r...@spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.net: - Vadym Kukhtin a écrit : It is also possible to submit new translations if your language use the latin alphabet. Is it 2011UTF8 now? Not yet. I am migrating slowly to fltk 1.3 that has utf8, but no release :( That's why the latin alphabet is mandatory for the moment -Fred ..you're on fltk 1.1? I'm on FG-git now, using: http://assistenza.larasrl.net/brisa/fgfs/download_and_compile.sh as adviced in: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Scripted_Compilation_on_Linux_Debian/Ubuntu ...but it refuses to build Atlas:Subbucket.cxx:75:42: error: ‘class SGBinObject’ has no member named ‘get_gbs_center2’, and it requires fltk-dev 1.1, I had 1.3 and that was _thrown_ out on dependencies. ..how far are you from fltk 1.3, 2011 UTF-8? IMHO, I think it's worth waiting for you coming to UTF-8, before FG-2.2. ..I also found a flickering Imperial WWI Camo bug in Debian's FG-2.0.0-2, it looks a _lot_ better in FG-git, no flickering, but it may still be present; depending on the lighting and shadows, I see different shades of the livery colors on e.g. doors, the tail surfaces from the fuselage and ailerons and flaps from the wings. FG-1.9.1 and earlier did not have these differing shades, and I suspect you guys don't see them with closed source video drivers. I'll post links to screenshots so you can see what I see. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] ..disk space needed for FG-git , was: reflect mapping
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:40:32 +0100, Arnt wrote in message 20110118204032.158726e2@celsius.local: how much disk space do I need now? arnt@celsius:~/FG-git$ du -sch * 6.5MAtlas 508Kcompilation_log.txt 8.0KdebCreator-2.0.0.tar.gz 8.0KdebCreator.tar.gz 32K download_and_compile.sh 37M fgcom 2.2Mfgcomgui 1.1Gfgfs 50M fgrun 7.9Ginstall 124Kmakefg 68K maketg 201MOpenSceneGraph 68M plib 4.0Krun_atlas.sh 4.0Krun_fgcomgui.sh 4.0Krun_fgcom.sh 4.0Krun_fgfs_debug.sh 4.0Krun_fgfs.sh 4.0Krun_fgrun.sh 4.0Krun_terrasync.sh 228Msimgear 9.4Gtotal arnt@celsius:~/FG-git$ du -sch install/* 1.7Minstall/fgcom 604Kinstall/fgcomgui 7.7Ginstall/fgfs 34M install/fgrun 37M install/OpenSceneGraph 16M install/plib 103Minstall/simgear 7.9Gtotal arnt@celsius:~/FG-git$ du -sch install/fgfs/* 208Minstall/fgfs/bin 7.5Ginstall/fgfs/fgdata 48K install/fgfs/share 7.7Gtotal arnt@celsius:~/FG-git$ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..shifty sunshine camouflage bug in FG-2.0.0-2, has it been fixed in git or FG-2.2?
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 02:12:32 +0100, Arnt wrote in message 20110114021232.6bd1c06f@celsius.local: Hi, ..just upgraded from Debian Sid's FG-1.9.1 to FG-2.0.0-2, framerates stayed up ok @ ~ 12-15 fps. These screenshots: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-001.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-002.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-003.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-004.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-005.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-006.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-007.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/fgfs-screen-008.png ...shows at least 4 different WWI-style German camouflage printed canvas on FG's default C172P, the Beaver and a few more, where the sun shines, these camo printed canvases change for every frame, but doesn't seem to harm the framerate, it's quite like what I saw in FG-1.9.1. 8o) ..laptop: Fujitsu-Siemens Celsius H240 w T7200 cpu, 4GB memory and ATI RV530 https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/lshw https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/dmesg https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/Xorg.0.log ...on Debian Sid/Experimental radeon driver, on Debian Sid's latest flightgear-2.0.0-2, will add output of any debug output ideas, here: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings ..current software listing (long) https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/dpkg_-l ..half baked benchmarks: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/aiglxbenchmark.out ..I use: fgfs --geometry=1920x1200 --httpd= --jpg-httpd=9876 \ --timeofday=noon --prop:controls/gear/brake-parking=1 \ --prop:sim/frame-rate=true --fov=94 ..the important thing is, has this shifty sunshine camo canvas bug in FG-2.0.0-2, been fixed in git and FG-2.2? ..on Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:21:08 +0100, Arnt wrote in message 20110121152108.26b060c0@celsius.local: ..I also found a flickering Imperial WWI Camo bug in Debian's FG-2.0.0-2, it looks a _lot_ better in FG-git, no flickering, but it may still be present; depending on the lighting and shadows, I see different shades of the livery colors on e.g. doors, the tail surfaces from the fuselage and ailerons and flaps from the wings. FG-1.9.1 and earlier did not have these differing shades, and I suspect you guys don't see them with closed source video drivers. I'll post links to screenshots so you can see what I see. ..are these door and control surface shade differences, intentional?: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-004.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-005.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-002.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-003.png ..playing with the livery picker menu, I found the door shadow differences go away if I pick some other livery than the 2 bottom ones, https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/c172-livery-tests-git-fgfs-screen-014.png was shot after I picked first n301dp and then default, which lays itself on top of n301dp and produces the door shadow differences. https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/c172-livery-tests-git-fgfs-screen-006.png was shot with the D-ENMU livery. ..tail and wing stripes are smeared by design? https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-007.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-008.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-009.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-010.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-011.png ..the AI traffic flies funny, like a paper plane blown downwind: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-012.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/raw/master/git-fgfs-screen-013.png ..I saw no such shade differences in FG-1.9.1, in Debians FG-2.0.0-2, these shade differences also flicker rather wildly. I also found Debians FG-2.0.0-2 cannot --enable-fullscreen, now my new preference with FG-git, rock steady 'n _smooth_ @ 15 to 18 fps, thanks guys. :o) ..if you don't see flickering with nvidea etc closed source video drivers, try X.org's nouveau etc drivers, even X.org's nv should manage to do a screenshot. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case
Re: [Flightgear-devel] current git FG OSG bulds on latest debian lenny
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:47:47 +0800, Harry wrote in message AANLkTi==Hrq1ZkQi38+u42y40rg=nw1zrvp8u15ha...@mail.gmail.com: Could I ask how the latest git repositories fall in. For info: I have just installed via network the latest version of Debian Lenny ..Lenny is too old for FG-2.2/git, add backports or go Sid or Squeeze. Squeeze is Debian testing and the next Debian stable release, some time this spring, I take it we want Squeeze to ship with FG-2.2. ..quickest way is swap Lenny for Sid in your /etc/apt/sources.list and do an 'aptitude update aptitude safe-upgrade aptitude full-upgrade' (so I can buld FG debian liveboot images) after many years of building FG on Suse distros. I found a few Debian funnies (to me), a complete new arrangment of X for one, but understand different distros sometimes do things differenty and I am feeling my way. But i think the nvidia driver is ok (module loaded and good video) but glx info is not availible? ..you have mesa-utils? (Is that the right one for nvidea users?) ..another reason for Debian Sid, or Debian Squeeze, they add the nouveau X driver that the nvidea owners can use to verify Nvidea is doing the right things in X, FG, etc, X.org's nv can only do software rendering. Also some oddies with unavailible dependancies for OSG. cairo, poppler-glib, librsvg-, gtk+_2.0 and Gtkglext-x11-1.0, it seemd to compile an install ok and osgview is functional. I am not sure if these missing items will effect FG. I followed a rather good Debian FG install page from the wiki which listed the OSG dependacies, ( I assume as far as FG is concerned) they all were downloadable and installed ok. So first build of SG and FG went OK, but FG had a seg fault when it fired off the second thread, splash screen progress setting up time and render. from gdb I figured OSG problem. So grabed the very latest OSG. 2.9.11 i think, however SG compile drops on another OSG issue. So for now I have been back to the nvidia setup and rebuilding OSG. I might have more os dependacie issues to sort, this is not the place to enquire about them unless somewone has just setup a new Debian net install. ..an easier way to find out is make an usb-image we can put on keys and try boot, nearly all machines that can run FG, can also boot off usb, and you probably don't wanna do a nvidea-only FG net booter. I have problems but i dont think they are actually FG related. I need to follow them up on other forums. What I would like to confirm is, are there any issues with the lastest git OSG with respect to the latest SG/FG git sources? Also if anyone has dealt with this latest Debian lenny from a FG point of veiw.. ..I can only confirm Debian Live and FG-git builds and works ok on my laptop on Debian Sid/Experimental and I have 15 to 20 fps @ 1920x1200 with --full-screen on Debian's Experimental radeon, running it windowed in KDE-4.4.5-8 cuts that by half. If so what is the best version of OSG to install as I have seen numous posts here and on forums pertaining to changes of OSG of late?. ..IMHO, whichever OSG ships with Debian Squeeze or Sid. Regards Harry -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] current git FG OSG bulds on latest debian lenny
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:04:52 +0100, Csaba wrote in message AANLkTi=omyqzf4gezy_3ix9dc4dh43d0bkff-fue6...@mail.gmail.com: On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Harry Campigli harryc...@gmail.com wrote: For now I am leaning my way around Debians way of doing things. Rather pleased as I have just compiled todays SVS against OSG 2.8.8.3 (as advised by Thorsten) on Lenny and it appears to run quite nicely. It was however a long haul, quite a few apps from backports and where ever else along the way. I had not been near a kernel rebuild since I put a soundblaster card to RedHat3. A lot of mucking around to get the nvidia module loaded and driver running, a new learning curve along the way. But that gives me some debian grounding before I start to build my image files For the record, I am using debian stable without any trickery involving backports and whatnot. I always compile my own kernel, though. Using that, I have no problems running either the nvidia or the fglrx binary drivers on my laptop and desktop respectively. From the dependencies I only compiled plib and osg, the rest is from stock packages. ..are you able to run nouveau on your Nvidia laptop and radeon and radeonhd on your ATI desktop? ..are you then able see the same things that I see in my screenshots at: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] current git FG OSG bulds on latest debian lenny
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 01:51:26 +0800, Harry wrote in message aanlktimivsrmafkx14o0pjb6utjp9fs4xa8cnnyry...@mail.gmail.com: Hello again Arnt, As you would have guessed I am working my way towards debian live as per your advice previously. For now I am leaning my way around Debians way of doing things. Rather pleased as I have just compiled todays SVS against OSG 2.8.8.3 (as advised by Thorsten) on Lenny and it appears to run quite nicely. It was however a long haul, quite a few apps from backports and where ever else along the way. I had not been near a kernel rebuild since I put a soundblaster card to RedHat3. ..I ditched SuSE-5.2 for RH-5.2 before I learned to insmod the sound card driver. ;oD A lot of mucking around to get the nvidia module loaded and driver running, a new learning curve along the way. But that gives me some debian grounding before I start to build my image files ..aye, and most of these things are easier with Sid or Squeeze. This box will take over all of the server duties from the suse box and be a platform for building my live boot images. ..another reason for the latest stuff, is GCC-4.5 and 4.6 are noisier about warnings and errors, where the earlier compilers are (too?) silent. FG-git builds fine with GCC-4.5.2-1, so I'm headed for GCC-4.6-20110116-1 or whatever it is tonight. ;o) My FG machines are all the same Nvida card and Intel mother boards to this one. ..a mono-culture that may introduce FG bugs like those in my screenshots?: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings ..a way to weed those out, is install and run xserver-xorg-video-nouveau and libdrm-nouveau1 alongside your Nvidia drivers so you can check your FG work and flog x.org into beating Nvidia. ..no, I'm not even sure are FG bugs, it _could_ be my laptop's video, or the radeon driver, all I can say is Debian's FG-1.9.1 and earlier looked just like your screenshots, Debian's FG-2.0.0-2 flickered wildly with Imperial German WWI camo canvases changing every frame, and FG-git is fine with only some planes flickering or funny shade colors, one of them is FG's default C172P. To be honest I installed mesa but not sure if was the correct one, so many apt-gets and dpkg commands in one day! I will let it run the updates to sid over night and see what happens in the morning. No big issue to wipe the system and start again with a minimal text system and upgrade to twm and an xserver from from there, if teh upgrade is not sucessfull because of something I have installed. ..aye, but yet another reason you will love Debian Live, one of the reasons it is this good, is how Debian developers _hate_ reinstalling or losing uptime, on kernel upgrades, we no longer reboot, we now load the new kernel into ram, and then hand over the box to the new kernel. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] current git FG OSG bulds on latest debian lenny
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 01:17:03 +0100, Csaba wrote in message aanlktiknmkuqa5cyvrit5r-2uv5o8mos9j2s2nfmt...@mail.gmail.com: On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: ..are you able to run nouveau on your Nvidia laptop and radeon and radeonhd on your ATI desktop? I have never tried nouveau but I have tested radeon a few months ago. The main problem is, that it is about 10 times slower than the binary driver at the moment. I only have an integrated HD4200 so that order of magnitude does make a significant difference as you can imagine. ..that I can imagine. ;o) I believe nouveau will be slower too, at least for this and maybe the next year, but they do catch up. ..the important thing is verify planes etc in FG looks the same way regardless of which video card and drivers we use. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] current git FG OSG bulds on latest debian lenny
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 01:25:28 +0100, Lech wrote in message 4d3b7578.9050...@szluug.org: On 01/22/2011 05:49 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: Squeeze is Debian testing and the next Debian stable release, some time this spring, I take it we want Squeeze to ship with FG-2.2. Hello. Debian Squeeze is planned to be released on the 5th/6th of February. So it's pretty soon now. And actually Squeeze will ship Flightgear 1.9.1 http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/flightgear It's impossible to change that now. However it might be possible to use Debian backports so users would be able to use newer Flightgear version. For what it's worth current Debian unstable has 2.0 version and current Ubuntu Natty (planned to be released on 04.11) has 1.9 version. Kind regards, PS I am no developer, just a plain lurker here. ..thanks, Lech, I'm still in catch-up mode. ;o) ..on FG-2.2 on Debian, I gather we must run our own show. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Catalina abort on startup
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:06:31 +0100, henri wrote in message AANLkTini+bnCJ7eOSsYtABw5kHq==7x9W5zFy=ysq...@mail.gmail.com: 2011/1/24 Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com On Sun, 2011-01-23 at 23:49 -0700, Ron Jensen wrote: On Sunday 23 January 2011 23:25:43 Gary Carvell wrote: Swapping the order of these two lines in PBY-6.xml appears to fix the problem: 775 42841.0.2800 776 21252.0.2100 Can anyone confirm this and commit the fix? Looks reasonable to me. Hopefully someone will commit? Done. Erik Thanks, And there is an other strange behavior , with that outdated model. When bombing water, the Aircraft create wildfire, which is idiot. Gérard, the original author, never gave me any explanation about it. To me, that feature ( create wildfire ) must be removed. ..we have more problems, I tested both the Catalina and the Catalina-plib, both segfaults on FG start-up: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/catalinas -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Catalina abort on startup
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:31:13 +0100 (CET), Anders wrote in message pine.lnx.4.64.1101241328370.3...@sleipner.gidenstam.se: On Mon, 24 Jan 2011, henri orange wrote: Thanks, And there is an other strange behavior , with that outdated model. When bombing water, the Aircraft create wildfire, which is idiot. Gérard, the original author, never gave me any explanation about it. To me, that feature ( create wildfire ) must be removed. That sounds odd. As far as I can see in the aircraft code the water submodel creates wildfire water drop events, which should extinguish wild fires if present at the impact point. ..feature, firefighting with water may backfire roundly, OH- ions from e.g. soapy water, alcohols etc catalyzes combustion, novice firefighters trying to hose down wood chip pile fires, finds water does not work because of the uh-OH ions. ;o) ..a scientific exercise is light a smoky motor oil fire in a pail, and then spray it with e.g. soap water to see what happens. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Catalina abort on startup
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:52:41 +0100, henri wrote in message AANLkTinvnx1jDgtoWUYzh2HVGS42dG_iBhSq0Judo0O=@mail.gmail.com: Yes, that model version is outdated, i understood it was Fg 1.9 compatible. For some reason Gérard didn't continue it. There is an other version within the grtux hangar which was permanently improved and updated according to FG git version. For the record, i am checking, it does suit to FG 2.2. ..ok, next step would be get Gérard's permission to distribute it with FG-2.2, http://grtux.pagesperso-orange.fr/tux/index-en.html says he cut off public access to his hangar. Without his permission, we can only use it to debug FG-2.2. 2011/1/24 Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:06:31 +0100, henri wrote in message AANLkTini+bnCJ7eOSsYtABw5kHq==7x9W5zFy=ysq...@mail.gmail.com: 2011/1/24 Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com On Sun, 2011-01-23 at 23:49 -0700, Ron Jensen wrote: On Sunday 23 January 2011 23:25:43 Gary Carvell wrote: Swapping the order of these two lines in PBY-6.xml appears to fix the problem: 775 42841.0.2800 776 21252.0.2100 Can anyone confirm this and commit the fix? Looks reasonable to me. Hopefully someone will commit? Done. Erik Thanks, And there is an other strange behavior , with that outdated model. When bombing water, the Aircraft create wildfire, which is idiot. Gérard, the original author, never gave me any explanation about it. To me, that feature ( create wildfire ) must be removed. ..we have more problems, I tested both the Catalina and the Catalina-plib, both segfaults on FG start-up: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/catalinas -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fgdata release branch for 2.2.0
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:04:37 +, James wrote in message a0163f8d-7181-4441-a5a5-260f22d5b...@mac.com: Following on from the release branches of the code, it's now time to make a release branch for fgdata. (In fact it should have already been done, since fgdata contains changes incompatible with the code release branch) I'll create the release branch from 'master' very soon, and then restore files which are incompatible with the 2.2.0 code to a suitable version. I think the main issue here is Torsten Dreyer's environment changes - another option would be to merge the code parts of that to 2.2.0. Note the release branch will contain exactly the files (i.e, Aircraft) that go into the installers - so I'll remove all the other aircraft *from the release branch*. I'll be using the same list of aircraft that was used for 2.0, to begin with. Of course, bug-fix changes to dialogs, Nasal, aircraft or similar can be merged to the release branch. (Martin, I'm informed this would be be an appropriate time to sync the 'Models' dir in fgdata with your official version) As always, any comments or objections, please mention them. ..list of candidate planes for FG-data-2.2 so I can screen shoot them? I see _some_ planes look weird and I suspect _some_ of you nvidia guys use nvidia-only visuals that are incompatible with Debian's latest x.org radeon driver that I and a lot of Debianistas and Ubuntese etc, use. ..I have a few screenshots in: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/ but I gather we want my screen shots to be relevant to the FG-2.2 release. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Carrier Altitude
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:08:00 +0100, Bertrand wrote in message aanlktimqvfcd2zf0ee0gqu7tuzxmop_ygdrnbuavo...@mail.gmail.com: 2011/1/25 Vivian Meazza vivian.mea...@lineone.net: and the vertical movement would tend to unlatch aircraft on deck from the carrier. Are you sure of that statement ? Can the carrier vertical speed be higher than the speed of a falling object ? ..only in really bad weather ;o) and only partially, e.g. near the bow and stern for pitching, and high up in the masts for rolling. My bet would be that the normal reaction forces at the landing gears will vary by a fraction of percent rather than unlatching aircrafts ?!? Just my 2 cents. Bertrand. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] ..replay HUD speed tape bug?, was: Fgdata release branch for 2.2.0
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:04:37 +, James wrote in message a0163f8d-7181-4441-a5a5-260f22d5b...@mac.com: Following on from the release branches of the code, it's now time to make a release branch for fgdata. (In fact it should have already been done, since fgdata contains changes incompatible with the code release branch) I'll create the release branch from 'master' very soon, and then restore files which are incompatible with the 2.2.0 code to a suitable version. I think the main issue here is Torsten Dreyer's environment changes - another option would be to merge the code parts of that to 2.2.0. Note the release branch will contain exactly the files (i.e, Aircraft) that go into the installers - so I'll remove all the other aircraft *from the release branch*. I'll be using the same list of aircraft that was used for 2.0, to begin with. Of course, bug-fix changes to dialogs, Nasal, aircraft or similar can be merged to the release branch. (Martin, I'm informed this would be be an appropriate time to sync the 'Models' dir in fgdata with your official version) As always, any comments or objections, please mention them. ..6 objections and a comment on the bright side, yeronnor, 1. on the c172p door color shades, we have brighter doors in: https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/c172p/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-024.png and https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/c172p/ ..2. the Dragonfly's _top_secret_ engine start-up procedure, the FG standard ~ } } } s procedure does not work, nor is there an Autostart option like in e.g. the 777, no screen shots here, ..and 3. the Sopwith Camel's (fdm?) way too heavily reinforced tail skid, that lead me to try out --model-hz=240, 600, 1200 to try make this chocked up angry bird, humanly controllable, https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-052.png thru https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-062.png ...4. with saner replayed approach and landing speeds... https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-074.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-068.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-063.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-064.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-065.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-066.png ...5. to prevent the Camel's rather excessive tail skid wear... https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-078.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-079.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-017.png ...and 6. the Camel's understandably embarrassed shade metal nose aimed at the 1273 knot face plant, unless we are to believe the HUD speed tape numbers didn't multiply replayed approach speed by the --model-hz=240 etc fdm math tune-up... even has metallic shades... https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-069.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-018.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-019.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-020.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/sopwith/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-021.png ..on the bright side, we of course have the bright yellow Cub: ;o) https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/blob/master/Cub/fgfs-2.2-RC0-screen-006.png https://github.com/gasguru/flightgearthings/tree/master/Cub/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] VATSIM support?
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:56:41 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message ihor4p$ls0k$1...@osprey.mgras.de: Chris, I think the benefit of having sort of a VATSIM-interface or -bridge for FlightGear is pretty much unquestioned, therefore I'll leave these details out. The point is a completely different one and probably consist of just two simple parts: 1.) Like probably almost every other OpenSource projects, FlightGear attracts its developer crowd (some would call it community) by the features which are specific to OpenSource development in general: Free access to the source code, multiple people working more or less collaboratively on the same part/feature, shared responsibility and certainly a lot more. This is fundamentally different from the development model you'd be forced into after signing an NDA: The NDA would presumably make almost every flavour of collaboration and peer-review impossible and the respective developer would end up as the sole responsible person for interfacing a variety of different FlightGear versions on a colourful bouquet of different platforms. Doesn't sound too attractive ..and then there is the litigation risk, if you don't read nor sign any NDA, you can not violate that agreement. ..if you do sign a NDA, you risk having to hire an expensive contract law lawyer to try convince a pro-business judge that you the progressive pro-community hobbyist hacker did not do what that big business law team _claims_ you did. ..http://groklaw.net/ has _several_ such stories, where even Big Blue has been stuck for over 7 years in US courts. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
