Re: [GO] BD:Violets: Drains and sanitation
- Original Message - From: "Eva M. Löfgren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Girlsown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:38 PM Subject: [GO] BD:Violets: Drains and sanitation > Barbara Dryden wrote: > > The conflict between a middle/upper class link between fresh air and > > health and the lower orders' belief that night air will kill you seems > > eternal. In Elizabeth von Arnim's books (the German ones) there is a > > lot about the stupid peasants sealing themselves into their houses and > > sewing their children into their clothes while Elizabeth believes the > > children would be healthier if they got some fresh air. > > > Not only class but geograpical/climatical differences. When you live in > a cold climate you can't sleep with open windows for most part of the > year - you need to keep the rooms warm. Yes indeed - geography is certainly important. When they get malaria in Little House on the Prairie, it is blamed on the night air and it you live in a mosquito ridden swamp (as many people still do), then keeping your windows closed is probably quite sensible (as well as having all the netting). I don't know about Real Life, but in the dramatised versions of Elizabeth Barrett Browning's life, there are always scenes where she begs to be allowed to open the windows and the nurse compromises with opening the bedroom door. So maybe it wasn't just The Poor who were prejudiced against the night air. And perhaps poor people houses didn't have very well-fitting windows anyway so there may have been enough natural drafts. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Stratemeyer Syndicate
- Original Message - From: "Stephen Copson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 2:57 PM Subject: [GO] Stratemeyer Syndicate > What about the Animal Ark series? They are written by 'Lucy Daniels', who > doesn't exist - in fact, they're written by various authors in a very > uniform hack-work style. Even the name Daniels was a marketing tool; it was > chosen for library shelf proximity to another writer about animal stories, > name beginning with D,nametemporarilyescapingme.. > I'd forgotten the Ark - they are the first of that sort of thing in Britain aren't they ? They sit on the shelves next to Colin Danby's Farthing Woods books (just as John Francombe ebing next to Dick Francis must help his sales) > There is another series called the Sleepover Club - can't now recall name of > author (definitely having a senior moment!) but I've sometimes wondered if > they too are syndicated - they're tremendously formulaic. > > These are slightly different aren't they because, like Dr Who or Star Trek books, they are all credited to the real authors ?. I think Rose Impey wrote the first few and then handed them over when she got bored. I'm not sure that formulaicness is a guarantee of syndication though :-). I know as a child I was convinced Blyton was a syndicate but everyone insists she did write every word herself. On a similar note, I was hugely amused by this http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1349353,00.html Though GBP 6 a book seems quite pricey to me Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Buffy & Jonathan & Patrick
- Original Message - From: "Laura Webster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: [GO] Buffy & Jonathan & Patrick > > Returning to someone's point about the similarities between Angel and > Patrick, having just read *Peter's Room* (which I absolutely loved) I > thought it was really interesting to read about Patrick's views on > courage etc, and how he thought ?Rupert would give in to the threat of > torture. Are there any other books in which AF further explores this > 'moral ambiguity'? > It's discussed in the Players' books where being wounded in battle or tortured during an investigation is a distinct possibility. A character loses a hand and Nick and his friend Humfrey talk about how they would react in the same situation (not as well as the masterful George who is rather more casual about it than I would be !). And a minor character (another Merrick) copes very well with being hung, drawn and quartered. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] PLEA FOR EB BOOKS ON TAPE
- Original Message - From: "Barbara Ann BROWN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Girls Own" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 9:14 PM Subject: [GO] PLEA FOR EB BOOKS ON TAPE > Does anybody know if EB's > St Clare's or Malory Towers are available > on tape? I know of a girl whose condition > means that she can't read for long, but can > listen. She has "read" the Famous Fives. > > I'd love to find her something . > > Barbara > Indeed they are. See http://www.talkingbooks.co.uk/. The company also has a large shop in Wigmore Street if you want to browse. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] early series/Sandford & Merton etc
- Original Message - From: "Stephen Copson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 5:34 PM Subject: [GO] early series/Sandford & Merton etc > As luck would have it, I actually have a first ed 1789 copy of Vol 3 of > Sandford & Merton (though sadly not vols 1 & 2). It is quite definitely one > continuing novel in three volumes rather than three complete stories later > put together as one; Vol 3 starts out with reference to events in the > previous volume but without explanation, thus: > > 'While these scenes were passing, Mrs Merton, though ignorant of the danger > of her son, was not undisturbed at home.' > > It's a lovely edition with publisher's adverts at the back, from which we > learn that the original 3 volume set cost 10s 6d bound. > > Serial at a stretch, given the length of time between publication, but > series definitely not. The full text is at http://www3.shropshire-cc.gov.uk/etexts/E000276.htm - where does Vol 3 begin so we can see if Vol Two ends on a cliffhanger (will Tom neglect his studies or will he get his Latin grammar done ? Tune in in three years time for the thrilling conclusion) Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] sequels/series
- Original Message - From: "Ellen Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [GO] sequels/series > > I have just pulled from the shelf two tiny little books with > marbled-paper covers that I'd almost forgotten I had. One is called > "Frank/In Four Parts/PartIII/ Eighth of the Series of Early Lessons by > Maria Edgworth" and is dated 1803. The other is Frank Part IV. I'm not > sure if her Harry and Lucy stories (mentioned I think in Little Men) > began as a series, but according to Copac they were issued as Practical > Education in 1780, and the Copac lists suggest she went on writing > others to follow. > > I'm not so sure about Sandford and Merton being a series, though. Copac > lists a number of copies in libraries with the date 1783, and then a > 1790 "fifth edition, corrected". There was also an abridged edition > "embellished with elegant plates" published in 1790, but no suggestion > of anything that could be seen as a sequel. > According to the DNB it "was published in three volumes (1783, 1786, and 1789), it tells how rebellious Tommy Merton, the spoilt son of a wealthy plantation owner from Jamaica, and his friend Harry Sandford, the poor but worthy son of a local farmer, are patiently educated by the Revd Mr Barlow-and how Master Tommy is brought, by precept and self-discovery, to see the error of his ways." I don't know enough about 18th century publishing to know whether each volume is complete in itself - I would assume so.but don't know for sure. Has anyone read the book ? It was still being read at the end of the 19th century (I think there's a joke in Three Men in a Boat about a very good boy being nicknamed Sandford and Merton). Probably a lot of early novels that we think of as complete were actually published in more than one part (see Little Women/Good Wives which are thought of as all one book in the US though they were definitely published as two) I remembered Edgeworth but I'm not sure if that is the same thing. Aren't the individual Harry and Lucy stories all self-contained short stories (I like some of her children's stories enormously especially The Little Merchants, set in Italy and the Frank and Rosamund stories. Alcott was a big fan - Lazy Laurence, used as a chapter heading in Good Wives, comes from Edgeworth). Interestingly the DNB article on her hardly mentions her children's stories at all. I would have thought that insofar as she is remembered now, it is because she is discussed in histories of children's literature, rather than for her adult fiction which may be influential but probably isn't read except by those doing university courses on The Early Novel. Perhaps she needs an Andrew Davies adaptation to get her on the map again. You can find some of her stories at http://www.gutenberg.net/etext/3655 including The Barring Out which is a famous early boarding school story. Sadly though I can't find The Purple Jar which is probably her most famous story. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] sequels/series
- Original Message - From: "Ellen Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 7:40 AM Subject: Re: [GO] sequels/series > Pam writes: > > I wondered when book sequels & series first became common? . . .Series > feature largely in GO fiction - was there anything much before Alcott / > Montgomery / Oxenham series & Brazil's pairs? Ellen suggested > The earliest I can think of at the moment are The Fairy Bower and The > Lost Brooch by Harriett Mozley, both published in 1841. Charlotte Yonge > saw them as the inspiration for the whole genre of books for girls. > I've not read Sandford and Merton but the publication dates are 1783-1789 so I assume it was published in several volumes. I don't think we are ever going to come up with an official 'earliest sequel' ! There's also Through the Looking Glass which hasn't been mentioned. There's also Leila books of the 1840s (the first is 1839, the second 1842 - I've been looking through Gillian Avery !). But I think American children's writers have always been more series conscious - as well as Alcott, there's Katy and Elsie. And there has never been a British equivalent to the Stratmeyer (sp) syndicate books - the nearest is some of the story papers which would draft in subsitute authors when the main one was on holiday. I don't own the Phantom Friends guide to series but IIRC that includes quite a few nineteenth century books. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] sequels/series
- Original Message -
From: "kirkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 12:19 AM
Subject: [GO] sequels/series
> I've just finished watching UK terrestrial TV's premiere of 'Bridget
Jones'
> Diary' and noted the links between it and 'Pride & Prejudice' (didn't
spot
> the plot links on my first viewing at the cinema - doh!!). Anyway,
given BJD
> has a sequel ('Edge of Reason'), although P & P doesn't, I wondered
when
> book sequels & series first became common? I know the Bible &
Shakespeare
> have several, but I meant in modern (20th century) fiction -
especially
> children's stuff. Series feature largely in GO fiction - was there
anything
> much before Alcott / Montgomery / Oxenham series & Brazil's pairs?
>
> Pam
>
The Fairchild Family was published in c1820 and part two appeared 20
years later (presumably by popular demand because kids just can't get
enough of evangelising over rotting corpses). Non-GO there's Robinson
Crusoe which has a largely forgotten sequel where he goes to Russia. Or
CM Yonge - she must be the queen of the nineteenth century sequel.
Nicky
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Re: [GO] Wintles Wonders
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > It's my favourite NS as well: I did read it as a child, and thought that the > > ending was wonderful - I remember laughing out loud with triumph when I got > > there. It's a Cinderella story, of course, and how could one want > Cinderella > to stay sitting in the ashes, even if we're all assured that sweeping > kitchens is far more important and useful than marrying princes? I can > quite see > that, from an adult point of view, we'd like to be reassured that humdrumity > > (if I may invent an abstract noun) is better than fame and fortune, because > > most of us on this list are humdrumers (and again...). But for a child, > never! > Perhaps I'm just very dull (and I wouldn't deny accusations of humdrummity) but even as a child I preferred Petrova and Myra Forum and Ginny Bell (and Paul whose singing voice was like a nutmeg grater) and I would have hated for them to have developed unlikely talents. I don't want my heroes and heroines to win through because they are talentedbut because they are persistent and clever (thus Klaus is my favourite Baudelaire because he has neither sharp teeth, nor a talent for cookery of invention, but simply works hard at reading). I guess that's why I've just never really liked fantasy even when it doesn't involve magic. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Repulsive Dulcies
Quoting Ellen Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > And on the subject of repulsive Dulcies, did anyone mention the one in > Good-bye Gemma? > > I'd forgotten her but she does have my sympathy. I can't imagine a university drama group putting on a play and then not casting a student in the lead ! Especially when it was going to be high-profile (though I find the idea of The Times reviewing a student Hamlet extremely unlikely) and would therefore further the careers of any would-be actors in the cast. And being called Dulcie in 1969 would be enough to piss anyone off. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Re: Finding Neverland
Quoting Ellen Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Oh yes, Barbara, that was a wonderful series. I particularly liked the > way Barrie was shown as in effect flirting with the boys, offering > exciting ideas and games (and his big friendly dog) and then withdrawing > his attention until they begged him to play with them. > It's available on dvd for those interested. See http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002PC2EA/qid=1100352260/sr=2- 3/ref=sr_2_11_3/202-0686976-2391869 Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Wintle's Wonders
Quoting Marcia McGinley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I haven't read Wintle's Wonders since I first read it as a child. I love > Noel Streatfeild but even when I'm have an NS binge I get to Wintle's > Wonders and think oh no, that's the one with the awful bit about the > birthday chair. I have almost no recollection of the story but there must > have been something that upset me when I was young. I had the same sort of > > reaction to Autumn Term for years until all the discussion on Girls Own > about AF got me to give her another try. I think it's odd that I can almost > > totally forget a story and yet still remember that I found it distressing in > > some way. I only read Wintle's Wonders as an adult and liked it up until the last chapter when Rachel suddenly becomes a fabulous dramatic actress. Which I hated because it seemed as if NS had spent the whole book saying that artistic talent wasn't everything and there were many different sorts of achievement (and kudos to her for letting Hilary do musical comedy. I'm sure Lorna Hill would have been horrified) and then in the last chapter she says that really Rachel has the most important talent of all. I wanted her to be like Petrova or Myra and good at something else or just be a nice person with no particular talents. But if I'd been a child, maybe I would have gone with the fantasy more. Liekwise I enjoyed When the Siren Wailed as a child (the cliches about evacuees weren't cliches to me and I didn't notice any snobbery, just an interesting account of a situation I had only come across in the tv Carrie's War but much more grim). But people who read it as an adult seem to hate it. On another note, what did NS have against the name Dulcie ?. As well as the WW one, there are 2 villainous Dulcies in Susan Scarlett novels (Babbacombes and Poppies for England. But there might be more in ones I haven't read). Presumably it is meant to sound cheap and vulgar (did it suddenly become popular in the 1930s ?) but it's an odd repetition because she's usually quite scrupulous about not repeating names. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Finding Neverland
Quoting kmf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I take it that Peter Ll-D is the central boy in the movie? In life it was > George, and later Michael who were most imporant to Barrie. Peter gave his > name to Pan, of course. I suppose that was the filmmaker's logic for their > choice. > > The Andrew Birkin book is wonderful, especially for the haunting, > beautiful, photographs. > > Karen > Minneapolis > > The film is quite clever in that the whole point is that Peter doesn't want to be Barrie's favourite, nor is he anything like Peter Pan (which seems to have been the case in real life). The film does have a very clever explanation of why George and Jack don't have their names in the play but Peter and Michael do. But the choice of Peter as lead character isn't quite as simplistic as it just being about the name. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] GO: Llewellyn Davies (subject of Neverland)
Quoting "Deborah A. Fleming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I just read someplace that LD's story wound up with a not-so-happy ending: > he > had enough adversity in his adult life to wind up throwing himself onto a > train > or subway track to end it all. How sad. > -- > Peter killed himself c1960 (at Sloane Square station) and Michael drowned at Oxford (with another student - it's usally assumed to have been a suicide pact). George was killed in WW1. All very sad. Mr L-D was still alive during the writing of Peter Pan ( a fifth boy was born after the play was first performed) and, IIRC, according to Andrew Birkin's book, moved house to get away from Barrie. I think Barrie's involvement with the family is usually accepted to have been a little more contraversial (though not necessarily for sinister reasons) than the film made out (and if I'd been Mr L-D I'd have been a bit annoyed by the Hook/Mr Darling doubling). Certainly Peter L-D did destroy all Barrie's letters to Michael because they were 'too much' (and since he was a publisher, he knew their literary signficance better than most). Don't think it stops it being a great film though. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] No boats on Bannermere
- Original Message - From: "Barbara Dryden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [GO] No boats on Bannermere > Rosamond, degraded? Even Maidlin works as a waitress at one point. > > Tig wrote > >Their mother takes up a trade - and a very menial one (judging by the > >standards of the period when serving in a teashop can be seen as the > >ultimate degradation) and not only doesn't bat an eyelid but finds it fun. > I'm not sure being a waitress was still in the 'common little shopgirl with painted nails' class in the 1950s. Mrs M runs her own business (always far more respectable than being an employee. Indeed I have a GOP annual for 1926 which recommends running a teashop as a genteel occupation) and working in canteens was exactly the sort of warwork middle class women often did. Plus it is stressed that the teashop is really for pin-money (given that Mr M doesn't send any maintenance, and she hasn't worked for several years prior to the book, I always wonder where her income does come from). I know Joey is so horrifed at the idea of Carla working as a waitress that she insists she come to work as a nanny but we never find out Carla's view on this (though since she never appears at Freudesheim, I think we can guess !). The Bannermere books are written around the same time as Mollie Chappell's Sugar and Spice in which running a teashop is perfectly respectable. Indeed my father would have been an exact contemporary of Bill at Oxford and came from an identical background (single parent scholarship boy) and it was there his met my mother, then working as a waitress and also from a fairly conventional middle class background (private school ). Both my grandmothers were terrific old-school snobs but I don't think wither of them objected to my mother's lowly occupation (both of them having had to do some odd things themselves as widows often do) Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Finding Neverland
- Original Message - From: "Susan Stead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:24 AM Subject: [GO] Finding Neverland ! But > what impressed me most was the performance of the boy (Freddy Highmore I > think). He was quite, quite brilliant, utterly natural. I am sure we will > see more of him. > Indeed. As well as Five Children And it (thoroughly condemned on GO before its release, which I actually liked, as did the rest of the audience when I saw , though, to be fair, every reviewer has hated it), he also has the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory gig on the strength of Finding Neverland. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Barrie film
- Original Message - From: "Shereen Benjamin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:28 PM Subject: [GO] Barrie film Natasha asked: <<>> Oh Natasha, take your hankies with you if you're intending to see it!! Yep, Mr Llewellyn-Davies is out of the picture before the action begins, and yep, the costumes are fab, though some of the sets aren't how I'd've imagined them. Kensington Gardens looks very nice, though, and the boys are sweet. But I repeat, for anyone who has yet to join the Anti-Sobbists, be prepared for lots of snivelling. Shereen -- Absolutely. It simplifies the L-D family (drops the youngest son and kills off Mr L-D before Barrie meets the family) and speeds up the writing of PP. Plus Johnny doesn't have a silly Edwardian moustache but I'm sure we'd all agree that's a good thing. And he does get to dance with a bear. But yes, anyone who cries at the Railway Children better take plenty of tissues. it's fabulous. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Now Trease and *his* politics - including Bannermere spoilers
Quoting Valerie Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On 9 Nov 2004 at 11:16, nicky smith wrote: > Trease seemed to have gradually moved to the right until the > Bannermere books > seem very conventional to me. > > I'm curious - I've only read the first 3 Bannermere books by him - > did he come across as leftish earlier on? > I very rarely know anything about the politics of *fiction* authors I > read, I find it nice when I have to spend so much time thinking about > historiographical schools and so on to just judge a book and its > message on what I read in the novel. But if anyone had asked me, > based on my reading, I wouldn't have considered Trease on the left - > as I infer you were suggesting, Nicky? > His early books , Bows Against the Barons and Comrades for the Charter were a deliberate reaction to the usual pro-Cavalier, anti-revolting peasants stuff found in children's histfic of the time. Bows Against the Barons has a chapter called 'Hammer and Sickle' (though re-issues are much-bowldlerized). He definitely though of himself as a lefty trying to change the face of children's lit. But clearly his views changed. I like the Maythorn and Bannermere books but comparing them is odd. Mike, from a nice working class family is first accused of shoplifting, then is bullied because he is thought to have snitched on some vandals from his school. The middle-class Bannermere children catch shoplifters; they don't get accused of being thieves. And of course nobody from a grammar school would vandalise a train. Nor is there any bullying at the grammar school (and when Bill applies for Oxford he stresses that he is wrong in his belief that there was any prejudice against grammar school applicants even though he is definitely given a tough time in the interview because he is the first boy from his school to apply for that college) Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] GO: Pullman, etc.
Quoting Ann Dowker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > In my opinion, both Pullman and some current conservatives are making > the same mistake: equating Christianity/ religion with right-wing > politics. > To be fair to Pullman, he is specifically talking about the Christian right not Christians in general (likewise he is not talking about *all* Muslims). I'm sure he is perfectly aware that Southern baptist churches in Texas have a very different ethos from Episcopalian communities in Vermont and it is the former he is talking about. >Can we perhaps move on to politics and religion in books, rather than IRL? For example, AF appears to be conservative both in religion and politics. Trease seemed to have gradually moved to the right until the Bannermere books seem very conventional to me. Nesbit is very interesting - some people have suggested that her Fabianism was more about wanting wear arts and crafts dresses and smoke in public than actual socialism and her books do seem quite conventionally snobbish about class. One interesting writer is Frank Richards - while he's certainly no lefty, his early stories (especially the St Jims ones) do feature a lot of discussions about politics and the eccentric socialist Skimpole, though a figure of fun, is usually allowed to have the last word. And he does tend to be quite cynical about conventional authority figures. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] RE: [BD] WSVS - Background / Mrs Beeton/ Correction
Sorry - misread my source. Mrs B's mother had 4 children by her first marriage (Isabella was the eldest and her father died when she was four), then 13 by her second marriage. He second husband already had 4 making a grand total of 21 ! No idea whether any were twins or triplets. Nicky - Original Message - From: "Nicky Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Girlsown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [GO] RE: [BD] WSVS - Background / Mrs Beeton > Combination of peritonitis and puerperal fever (I assume this would be > quite dangerous even now). BTW she acquired her housekeeping skills as > the eldest of her mother's 14 children (to which her stepfather added > another 4 from a previous marriage). So it's hardly surprising she > married and left home at the earliest possible opportunity ! > > Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] RE: [BD] WSVS - Background / Mrs Beeton
Combination of peritonitis and puerperal fever (I assume this would be quite dangerous even now). BTW she acquired her housekeeping skills as the eldest of her mother's 14 children (to which her stepfather added another 4 from a previous marriage). So it's hardly surprising she married and left home at the earliest possible opportunity ! Nicky - Original Message - From: "Emma DW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tom & Tash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Girls Own" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ellen Hrebeniuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [GO] RE: [BD] WSVS - Background > I'm not sure what she died of, but I read in the Guardian at the > weekend that she was only 28 when she died. > > Natasha wrote: > > And didn't Mrs Beeton die herself a few days after giving birth from > > post-puertal fever caused by the doctor's unwashed hands? > > > > Natasha > > -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] OT Buttiglione
- Original Message - From: "Diane Purkiss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:04 PM Subject: [GO] OT Buttiglione > > Also, on a point of accuracy, he didn't say single mothers were bad > mothers. He was using the idea of a single mother and a single father > getting married as an analogy for something-or-other. There was an > implication that both parents might like getting married, but that was No, he said they were 'not good people'. He has backtracked on some of his statements on homosexuality though not his (IMO) unsavoury views on building camps for immigrants but remains firmly convinced of the moral failings of single mothers (inevitable his views on single fathers remains unknown). Not someone I really want to have representing the cause of human rights but then I'm just an arrogant Guardian reader :-). But this is definitely well-OT so I'll leave you to it. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] [OT] Interesting Phillip Pullman quote re: Bu$h [OT]
- Original Message - From: "Sarah Preston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Deborah A. Fleming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Eleanor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [GO] GO: Interesting Phillip Pullman quote re: Bu$h > i quite agree. its ironic how illiberal many liberals are - you're only > allowed your right to your opinion if it agrees with their viewpoint, > otherwise you are condemned as a bigoted rightwing fundmentalist. look at > how the new EU commission was made back down on nominating a man who didn't > agree with the liberal agenda and wasn't afraid to say so. Liberal agenda ? From the European Charter of Fundamental Rights - 1. Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited. If you really believe, as Buttiglione apparently does, that homosexuality is a sin and that marriage is an insitution designed for women to have children with the protection of a man and that all single mothers are bad mothers then you really shouldn't be representing an organisation that supports the apparently despised liberal values of fairness and equality for all. And yes, if that isn't being a bigoted right-wing fundamentalist, what is ? Though obviously these are not values everyone would despise. Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] GO: Interesting Phillip Pullman quote re: Bu$h
- Original Message - From: "Eleanor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Deborah A. Fleming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [GO] GO: Interesting Phillip Pullman quote re: Bu$h > This is absolute garbage. This kind of hysterical demonization of anyone > who doesn't march in lockstep with the liberal viewpoint is exactly the > reason the liberals lost the election. > > > > At 10:45 AM 11/8/2004, Deborah A. Fleming wrote: > >Probably the best assessment of our new, bipartisan kind of pResident came > >from > >England. Children's fantasy writer Phillip Pullman, author of the trilogy "His > >Dark Materials," said that Bush would make a perfect Kids' Fantasy Villain. > Anyone who wants to find out more about Pullman's views on America might be interested in this recent article by him about the power of reading - http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1343733,00.html BTW our liberals must be very different from American ones since ours are known more for their cardigans than hysteria. I think I like the sound of yours though. Nicky Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] No Boats on Bannermere
- Original Message - From: "Barbara Dryden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [GO] No Boats on Bannermere > I take Sally's point about the dates of the two writers and also that > Trease tackled a broader range of subjects in his books. I can never agree > that Trease was a patch on Ransome as a writer. > And ? Does not being as good as one writer make someone a bad writer then ? I don't really understand the point here - there is valid criticism to be made about the Bannermere series (I find Bill's relentless conformity a bit tiresome. He must be the only 17 year old ever to spend a parent-free holiday in France and refuse all offers of alcohol) but I don't see that the fact that they may or may not be worse than the Swallows and Amazons is one of them. Surely books should stand or fall on their own merits (comparisons being odorous as Shakespeare said) ? Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Noel Streatfeild books
Janice, are you sure you aren't me ? We seem to be of one mind about NS. I hate the Tennis Shoes parents so much that I can't even think of rereading the book, love the Bells (despite the shoddy editing that leads to the Ginny/concert incident being repeated in the second book), and enjoyed When the Siren Wailed a lot (far better than the nauseous sentimentality of Goodnight Mr Tom). And I liked Thursday's Child - it managed to get a lot of Victorian settings into one book and liked the theatre aspects of Far to Go but was bored by the baby farm subplot. Nicky - Original Message - From: "Janice Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "GirlsOwn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: [GO] Noel Streatfeild books >> "June 2004 - 'When the Siren Wailed': a gripping story, and highly > appropriate reading for the D-Day commemoration weekend. Once again, the > ending seemed rushed though." (I'd made this comment about several of NS's > books, including 'The House in Cornwall') > "July 2004 - 'Thursday's Child': a pleasant read, different from her other > books, and better than I remember!" (I didn't really like this at all when I > read it when I was younger.) > "July 2004 - 'Far to Go': sequel to previous - quite enjoyable though rather > 'hasty', being only 120 pages." > > So am I alone in liking 'When the Siren Wailed' (but disliking 'Tennis > Shoes')? > > Incidentally, I found 'The Children of Primrose Lane' "totally unbelievable, > but nevertheless engrossing" (and it was nice to know the setting at the end > of the book), but 'The Bell Family' "lovely, believable and true-to-life, > though Ginnie seems to be Victoria Strangeways all over again" (and once > again it was a pleasant surprise to read about Hythe, which I know really > well too!) > -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] Consumption / Encyclopaedia Britannica
- Original Message - From: "Ellen Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [GO] Consumption > A further by-the-way. I now have a wonderful 35-volume 1880s > Britannica, so if anyone wants to know what was the official line on a > particular subject at that period, I'd be happy to look it up for you. > And if you want to see how knowledge progressed during the age of invention, the 1911 edition is online at http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/ and very fascinating it is too (only 29 volumes but they are very thick) Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
Re: [GO] GO Litigation
> > I have not reread Ready Made Family recently but because my mother and I > read the four school stories and then Runaway Home first, we were extremely > curious about Karen's marriage and expected more in the way of revelation as > to Edwin's appeal. I do know a couple people who fell for their instructors > or professors when they were older but at 18 the crush was much more likely > to be on what in the US is called a teaching assistant, a graduate assistant > much closer in age. Even afterwards when Nicola learns to appreciate Edwin, > it is hard to imagine Karen's initial attraction to him or his to her. > > Constance, now returning to a paper on Women's Battered Syndrome > > Of course, Edwin isn't actually a lecturer - he is from the far more glamourous world of libraries and archives. I'm surprised anyyone would think to question his appeal... Nicky -- Girlsown mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] For self-administration and access to archives see http://home.it.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/girlsown For FAQs see http://www.club-web.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/girlsown/faq-0.htm
