LCN supplementary
Welcome to a supplementary issue of the LCN for the month of June. This post contains details that have changed or been announced since the June LCN that was dispatched at (gasp) the start of June. The User Groups: --- GLLUG Home Page: http://gllug.linux.co.uk/ Greater London Linux User Group's (GLLUG) purpose is to bring together London's Linux users so they can share experiences and expertise (or revel in their inexperience and quest for expertise), to chat about the state of the (Linux) world, that sort of thing. We try to arrange meets so that there is space for users to set up their equipment, so you are welcome to bring your kit along, either to go through the problems you are having or just to show off what you are up to. Next GLLUG (Greater London Linux User Group) will be at the same place (FrameStore) CFC Preview Theatre, 19-23 Wells St., London W1, on 23/06/01 Starting at 1pm and ending at 6pm. We have three talks: Mike Brodbelt A discussion of mail systems, with particular reference to IMAP server implementations, and the advantages of using IMAP solutions. Technical detail on the specifics of an IMAP implementation using the Cyrus IMAP server. Richard Cohen Introduction to the Shell: Aimed at people who are either new to Linux, or who have spent most of their time in graphical environments. An attempt to introduce people to the richness and power of the Linux and Unix shell, and some of the more useful standard tools. Lots of examples, both useful and silly. Simon Trimmer An Introduction to Linux Kernel Debugging: A practical talk with information and techniques targeted at the mid range of Linux experience (i.e. comfortable systems administrator through to beginner developer). The talk will cover the basics and probe some more advanced areas of kernel debugging, in particular exploring the types of crashes/lockups with methods for diagnosing problems. There are no formalities to attending a GLLUG meeting, no subscription or entry fees, you can just turn up on the day. We welcome and encourage new and inexperienced users, young and old. The GLLUG venue this month is an indoor private preview Theatre owned by CFC and Framestore and once again our thanks go out for letting us use it for the day. --- London Perl Mongers Home Page: http://www.london.pm.org Contact Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] London PM are a group who are dedicated to the encouragement of all things Perl-like in London. The technical meeting is on the 21/06/01 and is being held once more at the very kind and understanding State51. Outside London Events: --- YAPC::Europe: YAPC is "yet another Perl conference", with apologies to The Perl Conference. This is an inexpensive, grassroots Perl conference with its roots in the Perl Mongers Perl users groups, and is supported by Yet Another Society. This years conference is Thursday, 02/08/2001 -- 04/08/2001 and is located in Amsterdam. More details can be found here: http://www.yapc.org/Europe/ The conference registration has now opened and tickets are available (While stocks last) so make sure you don't wait too long. I don't know of any plans to send a London delegation (ala last years OSDEM) so make your plans quick :) UKUUG Linux Developers' Conference: This is on 29 June - 1 July 2001. It looks like one of the most fun events this year and with the list of speakers attending it should be on your essential list. http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/ Today is the last day to get a discount on entry fees so don't forget. Other Stuff: --- London Geeknic John "Spare time" Hearns has bravely organised the first London Geeknic for this weekend. Expect much humour, laptops and coders bursting into dust under the rays of the day star. What - the Geeknic is a Geek Picnic. Date - Sunday 17th June Time - 12:30 onwards Place - General Wolff's Statue, adjacent to the Observatory, Greenwich Park (this is a terrace overlooking London, right next to the one o'clock time signal) Bring - picnic food, cool drinks, and lashings of ginger beer Plus sun screen and hats (ha! bet it rains) Activities - bring frisbees, softball, kites, nerf guns and any other fun things to do. Alternate activities - there is a craft market in Greenwich, and nice restaurants and pubs for later on. Computing - palmtops and laptops OK, but these shouldn't form the focus of the day. I may well have a car there, so we could consider hauling in a power supply. How to find us - follow the sign of the Inflatable Penguin (seriously though, we should be in the vicinity of the observatory. IT won't be too hard to spot a bunch of geeks and inflatable penguins in Greenwich Park) (Thanks to SuSE for a six foot inflatable penguin!) --- HTH and can someone
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 06:56:35PM +, Redvers Davies wrote: > Plane tickets are currently 37 quid return via easyjet... Are there any plans for a group of London PMer's to fly over together or is the whole thing going to be ad hoc? I know i asked this before but with the success of the NY trip i was hoping someone would be feeling ambitious and volenter... (Although i worked at Oven and hence can't organize a pissup in a brewery :)) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 10:11:13AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: > Well here are some reasons why i prefer UNIX to Windows * for servers, I'm going to play devils advocate. I've been using Win2k for the last four months and have a basic grasp of it. Its difficult because i agree with a lot of your comments. > * MSDN > Ok, I've just checked and it appears that more information is now > available on the web for free, but it wasn't like this a while ago. No it wasn't, Microsoft are learning. Its taking a bloody long time but they are learning. > There is entirely to much DLL upgrading for my liking at every possible > chance with Windows software/service pack. I don't believe that this can > really lead to a stable system. Win2k address a lot of these issues with its dll and system file control programs. If you change a dll that's needed and the replacement dll doesn't work then the change gets tagged as a failure and rolled back by the system. It seems to work reasonably well, we've had no major dll screw ups. > I want the servers to look different from the desktops, I don't want Er... I have a Linux box on my desk and we use a number of Win2k servers... mine does look different ;) > * No compiler > Why can't there be a compiler? Please just a simple one, so that if > i want to write some little program for myself I can do it there and > then. Its not that much to ask, it would just mean that when you get > a fresh windows box you dont have to go and waste time installing > additional software, and there are other examples of this ... (You said this is about servers) Compilers on servers are a bad idea both from the security perspective and from a stability angle. I don't care how good a coder you are, your not writing code on the server. In a real production environment you need to test it and do change control. I have an issue with this since i got a phone call at 3am this morning after someone did just this. I only leave an interpreter on servers for my own convenience and even then i shouldn't. Of course if your server runs an interpreted language then yes you need it :) > Editor Wordpad :) > Scripting language Windows scripting host can be installed when Win2k is. It handles jscript, vbs and can do perl python and rexx. You also have batch which is starting to become impressive on its own. > Cron The at command or the task scheduler. > * Final reason (for now) > I don't trust them. Agreed. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: [OT] BUFFY No spoilers
On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 09:29:14AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: > ah well, we can probably also expect "The Rock" from WWF > to show up and lay the smack down on some vamps, also > expect to here plans for a BtVS movie as well, so they > can get use out of the sets one more time. The movie has been in the planning for a while now, the main bad guy has been rumoured to be the "Ultimate Evil" from the Buffy Xmas episode where Angels tries to kill himself (in series three.) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: crazy golf
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:28:43PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> So *that's* the secret to your boyish good looks Dave! I knew there had
> to be *something* good about contracting :-)
That and getting to drain the life out of the permanent staff ;)
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Re: LCN June
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 02:20:56PM +0100, alex wrote: > > Lonix > > Date: Wednesday 6th June at 6.00pm. > hasn't this been postponed? Oh yes. I got a note last night confirming the date and then today i get one telling me its moved.[0] The venue and everything will be the same but the date is changing. I'll do another LCN later this month when things are a bit firmer for: PM Tech meeting. PM Social. GLLUG. Lonix. Only one that's done and dusted seems to be SAGE-WISE (Fingers crossed) Dean [0] This is one of the reasons i stopped doing this. No one knows when stuffs happening that far in advance... Herding cats spring to mind ;) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
LCN June
a users' group based in the UK for UK FreeBSD UNIX Users. No meetings have been announced yet this month but you can look for details here http://www.freebsd-uk.eu.org/meetings.html Outside London Events: --- UKUUG Linux Developers' Conference: This is on 29 June - 1 July 2001. It looks like one of the most fun events this year and with the list of speakers attending it should be on your essential list. http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/ YAPC::Europe: YAPC is "yet another Perl conference", with apologies to The Perl Conference. This is an inexpensive, grassroots Perl conference with its roots in the Perl Mongers Perl users groups, and is supported by Yet Another Society. This years conference is Thursday, 02/08/2001 -- 04/08/2001 and is located in Amsterdam. More details can be found here: http://www.yapc.org/Europe/ Other Stuff: --- Event Calendar: Alasdair Kergon has come up with an essential resource for events all around the country (And abroad!) If you have anything you'd like to get added then you can speak to him at [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oxlug.org/majorevents.html --- Community Recognition: In this section I'd like to include people or companies that have contributed or helped one or more of the user groups in some way. A lot of people quietly contribute time, money or effort and get no recognition for it. This month I'd like to thank: Veritas (Again) www.veritas.com Veritas have once again earned the gratitude of GLLUG by going for the stomach and sponsoring ANOTHER meal after a GLLUG event. Thanks go out from all of us, especially the owner of the restaurant. Computer Film Company & Framestore (www.framestore.co.uk) These two very generous companies allowed GLLUG to use one of their private cinema's for a GLLUG technical event. Possibly one of the most impressive meetings to date. State 51 (www.state51.co.uk) State 51 have hosted a barrage of London PM Technical meetings with a smile, a lot of floor space and a ready beer. Nothing more could be asked for. Sun (Have a guess) Sun have covered the venue cost of multiple GLLUG meetings over the last year and almost no-one knew. Add this to the fact that they employ Richard Cohen, who's heavily involved in running GLLUG and a frequent speaker we have a major contributor. And I'm almost willing to forgive them for Java ;) Turtle Networks (www.turtle.net) Turtle have the thankless (and difficult) job of organizing Lonix every month and making sure that everyone has a hangover the day after. Add this to their recent GNU/Linux installfests and you have a community devoted company. Conway Hall Merijn Broeren, Mike Davis, Paul Mison and Andy Williams dug deep into their own pockets and stumped up the cost of the venue for Damian Conways talk in London about Quantum::Superpositions and maintenance coding, or Acme::Bleach as its now known. --- Any comments (Good or bad), suggestions of groups to add or ideas for recognition of services to London Community groups are welcome at [EMAIL PROTECTED] If your a member of one of the groups i spoke to after the last edition of this many moons ago please drop me a note to get added. Remember "use Buffy;" (http://search.cpan.org/search?mode=module&query=Buffy) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon All views in the above are my own.
Re: Decompression
-Original Message- From: Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Umm, *strokes beard* by archive you mean tar file, right? If so then >Archive::Tar looks likely, and it even automagically deals with .gz This does exactly what I wanted, a pint is yours at the next meeting! >files via Compress::Zlib (or so it says in the readme) It does as well, this should save a lot of grief. >No non-core modules though? Can't you just create a local lib path >with Archive::Tar in it and say you didn't cheat? If I can't get the module on the server then I guess I'll have to be inventive and just add the whole module to my script ;) And now back to your scheduled Buffy discussion. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Decompression
On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 06:56:21PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: > > Also for future reference does any one know a better way to do this than > > Compress::Zlib, core or non-core. > > I suppose > # tar -xzf [archivename] [filename/that/you.want] > is too easy .. I'm missing something again aren't I? Sorry, my bad. I'd like to be able to do the whole thing without shelling out. I'm currently using something similar your example in the script and it works but I'd rather use something in perl so i don't have to worry about external locations or even OS (Zlib should work on Windows. I think) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Decompression
Question for the unix people on the list. I have an archive that's gzipped
up and contains either a number of small files or a single large file.
What's the easiest way to extract any given file? It has to use core modules
and anyone with a sample script can earn a pint ;)
Also for future reference does any one know a better way to do this than
Compress::Zlib, core or non-core.
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Re: Windows Perl - how?
On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:37:22PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: > I head off to the activestate page and download the MSI for the latest > build. My question is...how do I install this? I can't find the MSI > installer anywhere on their site. What version of Windows is it? 2000, ME and the newer ones have it built in. NT, 95 and 98 can have it bolted on > I seem to remember downloading an .exe last week (which I no longer have > and no longer seems to be where it was on thier site.) Are they randomly > switching between MSI and .exe and haven't bothered to upload the > installer when they switched back. If you go here: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePerl/ And click the AS Package link. This will give you Perl and options to get the MSI installer for your version of Windows. HTH Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: [PUB] Possible candidate
On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:03:54AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > I like PO a lot. I can agree with this. Central, nice food, holds a lot of people. Only problem i have with the place is that when we get seated in a corner anyone who turns up late ends up sitting on another table. Its not a major problem but its a bit disheartening to people turning up for the first time when they get sat on the edge of a table away from the crowd. > but now the summer is coming, aren't you tempted by long nights by > the river? Nope. I dislike having chunks bitten out of me. Then again i shouldn't sit next to Cantrell i suppose ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Y::E accomodation
On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:53:00PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> we were just talking on IRC and the subject of accomodation for YAPC::Europe
> came up again,
For those of us without the time for both the List and the IRC channel is
there any chance of a summery about what the group plans are? Or is it a free
for all?
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Re: Decisions decisions
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:51:44PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: > No! Remind me of some of the reasons you wanted to get rid of > the defender machine? I'm sure one of them was lack of space > in Cantrell mansions. Ignore the heretic and his shouts of compare! swap! Embrace the siren call of the hardware. Or get an emulator and save on aircon... :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Buffy gear
On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 07:18:23PM +0100, Barry Pretsell wrote: > QVC are selling lots of Buffy gear, tune into QVC now, or check out the wbesite "Charisma Carpenter 'Cordelia' Signed Photo" £64... Now i'm scared... Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?
-Original Message-From: Barry Pretsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I'm interested to know if anyone uses Safari to read O'Reilly books online. >http://safari1.oreilly.com/tablhom.asp?home >It sounds like a good idea (must be better than having 3 editions of Programming Perl) and I'm tempted to give it a go, so any Safari subscribers out >there with an opinion? I've not started using it yet but I'll admit to being very tempted on a couple of occasions (When I need the cookbook and my CD's at home mostly) the only real thing putting me off is the need to be constantly on-line. I do a lot of my work on my laptop with no network connections so I don't get distracted by things like e-mail and I'd like a local copy, you could write a slow crawler to make up for this but that sorta breaks the spirit of it and I imagine Nat not being too happy with me ;) I was impressed by the Manning way of letting me download a PDF of the book, it makes my life easier since I can use it off line. On the other hand I thought Manning would have released their back catalogue in ebook as well as they have a very limited selection at the moment. I suppose the issue with books as PDF is that it leaves you wide open to rampant copying... Although you could slow crawl safari and zip 'em up. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: pc components
-Original Message- From: Jonathan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >At 14:48 17/05/01 +0100, Dean wrote: >>If your in London then forget mail order and go to TCR on a Saturday, >>you get to take home what you pay for and with the drop in spending >>lately its getting easier to haggle the price down. >Are you refering to the 'computer fair' or just TCR in general? Both to a degree. From the shops I've been in recently it seems that they are more willing to drop the price a bit than see you go to one of the fairs. For once the consumers the winner. The fairs do a more mixed selection of stuff than the shops do, where you go depends on what your looking for. >Also, if any London person is unaware of it, the shop CEX (Computer >EXchange) on TCR (just north of Goddge St Stn) sells excellent 2nd hand >hardware, are very knowledgeable, will accept returns with no hassle, and >have never let me down etc etc etc. And they do a nice selection of cheep DVD's. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: [OT] Cordelia (was Re: They are all vampires!)
-Original Message- From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >... Boobapalooza! You boys will be capturing plenty of stills from >the season-ending shows. I'd never sink that low. I know how to use google and wget... >Think Princess Leia only funny and jaw-droppingly gorgeous. Renounce Buffy and Willow, join the dark side. ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: pc components
-Original Message- From: Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >My motherboard from Dabs has spent two days "awaiting credit card clearance" >and two days "awaiting despatch". It *is* in stock, it's just taking them >four days - and counting - to get around to shipping it. If your in London then forget mail order and go to TCR on a Saturday, you get to take home what you pay for and with the drop in spending lately its getting easier to haggle the price down. And afterwards you can come to one of the almost weekly geek meets in a nearby pub. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Buffy ...
On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 05:08:17PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: > http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/51586918 "The economy took another downturn today as the few remaining London based dot-coms utilized the last of their ever diminishing budgets in an attempt to procure an item that would see off the vampire ^Hventure capitalists. One of the companies to survive todays spending spree was MagSol, the founder Dave was heard to say "Willows better."" Sorry couldn't resist. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Latest Perl Journal
On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:19:36PM +0100, Robin Houston wrote: > > Thanks very much. It's one of my favourite jokes. It was trialed at a > > london.pm technical meeting some months ago :) > What's the footnote on page 78, Dave? And is this a subscribers copy or one found "in the wild"? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
The scary man...
Some interesting stuff:
http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/08/exegesis2.html
I like the fact that hash's and arrays are going to use their own symbols
for stuff like slices, should make explaining things a lot easier in the
future!
Dean
--
But then the serpent of OO entered the garden, and offered Perlkind the
bitter fruit of subroutine and method calls.
--- D Conway
Re: see attachment
-Original Message- From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Of course we could make a cyberpunk movie instead, now let >me thing about it Someone please employ Mr Mccarroll. My mail box can't cope with him having this much spare time. ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:33:42PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: >> How many things do you have on top of your monitor? A dust puppy fluffy toy, a copy of Network Progamming with Perl and a flock of post it notes. > > None ;-) > Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: (OT) constrained walk
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:17:10PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: > Paul Mison wrote: > > there may be a second constrained walk > What's a "constrained walk"? About 5 yards. ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
RE: Buffy musings ...
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 11:20:36AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: > > 2) Get Willow. Dammit. > I'll see what they cost. It might be prohibitively expensive to get > anyone who's cute. Get Willow then ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Buffy musings ...
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:49:30AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > I'm interested in going to YAPC, is London PM going as a group or is it all > > just ad-hoc? > which YAPC? Y::E i assume? Yep YAPC::Europe, with the recent success of the New York trip i was being (maybe ;)) optimistic about more group travel[0]. Dean [0] Maybe even to the camel? -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Buffy musings ...
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 01:28:07PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: > Of course, Eliza should be finished with Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back > by then... Not sure what Charisma's doing outside of the Whedon Axis. She was supposed to be in a film called "The Twins" but that was supposed to have finished shooting in 2000 and nothings been seen of it since the early details. Does any one know if ORA will be selling a compilation of the papers again after this conference? Dean PS Do we have any news on the YAPC::Europe talks that were recorded? -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Buffy musings ...
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:20:33PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: >> I wonder how hard it would be to get Faith or Charisma Carpenter Charisma Carpenter!!! > That's a really silly idea. I like it! Despite the fact I won't actually > be there. Ditto, it works out a bit much for me to both spend and lose the weeks income. Thank god for YAPC! > Whilst we're (kinda) on the topic, can I have a reminder of > who's going to yapc. I'm still umm-ing and ahh-ing over whther I can > afford it (us phud students suffer for our science). I'm interested in going to YAPC, is London PM going as a group or is it all just ad-hoc? Dean (Also looking forward to the LBW and OSDEM and maybe LinuxTag) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: More revolting natives
On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:54:05PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: >> Um. I no longer want children. > You *wanted* them? :-) Not really, guess I'm proof of Darwinism at work ;) As an aside think of his parents sitting there become more and more filled with dread and fear as they realise that one day he'll be picking out their retirement homes... Does the author of the book take an interest in the web group? I'd hope she'd be on there correcting him. Dean I can see use.perl now, Thirteen year old boy terrorized by London PMer's because "Dave told them to" :) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: More revolting natives
On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:32:35PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: > Well, the 13 year old now claims to be 20. But no, this is his friend bk who > "kills people for a living" in Hereford! Um. I no longer want children. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: More revolting natives
On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:17:25PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: > Oh, and you've just gotta love the mentality that sees 'gay' as an insult. > Gives a real feel for the kind of person we're dealing with :) Just to clarify is this the 13 year old? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this
On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:14:18AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: >> Cousin site to http://www.c-cup.com/, which seems to be down at the moment. It looks like its still down and the Google cache lacks images :( > Typical example: "Charisma Carpenter Guide to Selected Linux Software" > For those of you following on Sky One, remember that you're only ten days > behind the US right now - so that episode will be shown a week on Friday. Now who do i know with Sky ;) > For those of you following on terrestial TV - $deity knows where or when > Angel series 2 will be shown. That would be me. Looks like the videos will be out before the show comes on. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 05:35:42PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: > On the subject of C.C., let me just say that last night's Angel had > her in a bikini for an exploitative commercial she was in. You do realise that i have to wait for over six months to see this don't you. Bastard. :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Another Komodo
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:44:45PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> (I assume AOL's Komodo is some Mozilla repackaging? Anyone know
> anything about this?)
theregister.co.uk has been running stories about it being used as a
possible alternative if AOL decides to stop bundling IE. No technical
details though...
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Re: [Gllug] Saturday Show
-Original Message- From: John Southern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dunno how many of the PMers go to the fairs but this might be of interest: >As you all may know SuSE have decided to help out on the Pre-LinuxDay day. >Along with GLLUG they will be at the UCL Union building computer show >( Mallet Street ) >to tell anyone who will listen and even some who won't about Linux and >about the following weekend Lonix LinuxDay InstallFest. Details about the Lonix fest will be in the soon coming LCN... >A table has been booked and all help is welcome. Starts about 8:30am >It will end in time to go and celebrate John Hearns Birthday in the Hope pub. Which anyone in the area is welcome to gate crash :) >John Southern Dean -- Perl Coder Security Tech E-mail troll Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Server Upgrade
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 12:29:24PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: > And AFAIK, if it takes SDRAM at all, you can put in whatever you want; the > speed is determined by min(mobo bus speed, memory spec speed). I've got > PC133 memory in my Celeron board (66 MHz bus) and it works fine; the memory > doesn't seem to care that it's accessed more slowly than it's capable of. > (And another bank has, I think, PC100 memory in it -- the mix-n-match > doesn't seem to be deleterious, either.) If you have a board capable of running at PC100 and you have a mix of 100 and 133 then it'll all run fine at 100. If you have a board capable of running at PC133 and you have a mix of 100 and 133 it'll still run fine but only at 100. Lowest common as you'd expect. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: JOB: Another one (Banking)
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 01:29:11PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: > > Would it be worth forking london-pm-jobs? > We're creating a london.pm jobs database. Jo will be talking about it > tonight. I'll make an effort to attend this tonight since I'm involved in the jobix project which might have a lot of overlap in areas of interest... Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:43:09PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: > > CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. > > Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here. You may insult my OS, you may insult my editor but don't tar me with that brush Mr Cross :) Dean (Cordelia fan) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: > Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think > even vim can do it now, too. Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing everything in xemacs. > Emacs *is* an IDE. It just doesn't look like all the other ones. I was going to argue about the foot print but i use Visual Studio on occasion ;) >-Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?) Nah. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:29:43AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: > CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. > Of course he'll probably be attacked by vampires before that can > actually happen. Or Greg ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: > On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac. > XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can > deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is > possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming. Whats MPW? > OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less. Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Dean (Clueless when it comes to macs.) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: > I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather > than the Perl market... > Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was > sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, > shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not > strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges > on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time you can get CPAN working on it. ActiveState also comes with some other stuff like the ability to use perl in place of ASP and stuff like pl2bat. You can compile and use your own perl just like you could on a Linux box but it just takes a bit more effort and as the NMS project is showing making things easy is a good thing. (Right watch Cantrell butcher me ;)) > I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to > Perl itself Ahh yes, through the ActiveState way you can control clippit ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: > umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats > quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking > over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that > position. And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide? Windows is a better target market for things like this, the need is there but the competition is not. Activestate is in a position of power in the Windows world, they have the Windows Perl market pretty much wrapped up and by the time someone else really tries to get into the race they'll find its already over. I know that their are alternatives like the Indigo and Siemens distros but neither are really commercial. Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market, ActiveState is a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;)) market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the merrier ;) > you can write code in emacs? Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in it... ;) > umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind, > (which uses gcc ... ) I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools. Yet. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: > umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the > standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a > standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any > intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a > production environment. IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio springs to mind. > I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get > various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows, > waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was > still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under > windows ..) I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :) Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;) > I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl > installation... Let us know what they come back with. > if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going back to xemacs to code ;)) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > > Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? > I haven't looked at it, but will. However, it does look from the web pages > as if it requires me to download Activestate's distribution of perl. This > is a Bad Thing. If it turns out that I can use my existing 5.6, then I'll > give it a go, but if I have to fuck around, I won't bother. Didn't notice that and since it won't install without a license i won't be evaling it yet and can't confirm if it screws over existing installs. > Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world, and need to learn > about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Someone needs to be in the Windows world and I'd rather them worry about it than me ;) >Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest >operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete I like this sig. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 06:23:28PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: > On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:57:17PM +0100, Dean wrote: > > Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? > The Linux version is broken; it won't install, claiming you need a new > license. Gah! I just downloaded this and tried to install, at least i know it wasn't me now ;) > Komodo on the Linux version, yet. b) we changed licnese schemes recently. If > absolutely necessary we can send you a new license. I'm semi patient :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Komodo
I just downloaded and had a play with the release version 1.0 of Komodo for Windows (The Linux one is still in the RC phase) and i have to say that I'm impressed. I know that a lot of the list are devoted to using text editors rather than these 'new fangled' IDE's :) but i reckon this is worth a play with for three main reasons: 1) The RX toolkit 2) Code folding 3) Reference Contents The RX toolkit is a nice little box you can paste a regex into and underneath you paste a string. It then shows what matches what and the contents of the capturing parameters. The code folding is something i was looking for a while ago and while the beta of vim 6.0 has some support for folding subroutines (But it loses state a lot...) Komodo lets you fold pretty much anything from subroutines to if statements. The last bit is something that i like as i can see it saving me adding and removing Data::Dumper statements while debugging, I've only been playing with this this afternoon but it seems to work as I'd expect and its nice to have it handy without adding statements. As a last point it even makes an attempt to guess at the keyword you were typing when you hit ctrl-space. And it gets it right quiet often. I know that you can do the three things i mentioned above with other techniques but this puts them closer with less hoop jumping to use them on a day to day basis. Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Beginners Guide
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:41:46AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: > > I'm painfully aware that not everyone on this list has the same amount of > > experience and knowledge and that therefore some discussions may well go > > over the head of some of the newbies. It's therefore nice to be able to find > > ways to help out beginners. I thought this was going to lead to something completly different... Silly me ;) > Any chance you could transcribe the important bits for us. (if as I > suspect, the important bits are umm .. errr .. 'soft and fleshy' please > attach jpegs) You asked for this ;) http://www.psyche.kn-bremen.de/ And its more upto date than BBC2! Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Technical Meeting Agenda
On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 10:15:13AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
> Committee Reports:
> Canel Visitation Committee
^
God we're going down market... ;)
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Re: Perl on HPUX
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 08:58:55AM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: >What part of HP-UX didn't scream 'behind' :) The price tag ;) >Sadly, the list isn't terribly active but, depending on the platform, >vendor specific lists can be very useful in such situations. But do they have Buffy discussions ? Or Grep ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:00:16PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> crazy. However, we really need to start organising the meetings (hey,
> even Lonix is more organised!), as it was too loud and crowded:
You have a weird idea of organized ;)
We tried to get 60 people into 30 places...
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Re: Perl on HPUX
On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:54:54PM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: > http://cpan.valueclick.com/ports/#hpux The http://hpux.connect.org.uk/ site looks like a good resource if a little behind. > http://lists.perl.org/showlist.cgi?name=perl-hpux > could also use some life :) Not another mailing list... You can't make me! I'm only moving some Linux scripts across to HPUX so i doubt I'd be much use on the list. The error threw me since i'm too new to this to know Perl 4. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Installing Perl/Tk on Win32
On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 04:45:40PM +0100, Andrew Bowman wrote: > I'm trying to install the Tk module on a Win32 system (I realise this is > where my mistake lies, however, leaving that aside...). The docs say to: If you don't really need to compile it yourself how's about: ppm install Tk? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Perl on HPUX
On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 01:13:59PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> /usr/contrib/bin/perl -V
> To find out what version it is and post back.
DOH! Its running 4.0.1.8
Should have spotted that... Next time you get told the dev box is a copy of
the producing box don't believe them :)
Thanks Dominic
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Perl on HPUX
Hi All Question for the list, i'm currently writing some scripts for a HP box running HPUX 11 and i keep hitting the same error when ever i try and use something (even 'use strict;'.) The error is "syntax error in file p2.pl at line 2, next 2 tokens "use strict" ". The file is a noddy script with #!/usr/contrib/bin/perl use strict; print "Working...\n"; Does anyone on list have any experience with perl on this platform and know if i need to change the shebang or anything similar. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: sub BEGIN {}
On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:54:25PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote: > > A while back. It was the time with the wearable computers demo. > Neill's, I take it, rather than one of my impromptu borgings? I've no > idea who most of those people were. Some kind of gargoyle groupie effect > ... I heard some dreadful stories about the wearables thing at ICA > some time back too. Well i mean Martin what kind of freak would build a wearable for personal use... Even going so far as to hack the hardware in a webcam and a touch pad? ;) > All this said, there were an obscene number of people at Lonix last > night, At least 50 people in the restaurant from the number of individual meals on the bill. And we lost a bundle when we left the pub... Twas a good night. London PM even had a representitive present as Mr Brocard made an apperence. And was scared ;) > Grr. I don't *want* to turn into an elitist wanker, it's just that I'd > like all these morons to fuck off :-P I'd settle for having them learn to quote in email... Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Certing
Will the Perl Cert discussion/brainstorming be taking part at todays meet or the technical one? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: sub BEGIN {}
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 06:19:46PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:52:32PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: > > > Last time I went to Lonix, it was full of w4r3z d00dz. :( The kind of > > > people who only used linux because they didn't have to pay for it. > A while back. It was the time with the wearable computers demo. Ah the one at the uni near Angel tube. Those weren't w4r3z d00dz they were far far worse... Students ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:10:40PM +0100, Clarke, Darren wrote: > On the other hand not using decent grammar because it wasn't taught seems a > bit lazy. Admittedly I'm not the best at written words in emails but I > figure most intelligent people will rise above their background as the > situation dictates. I'm lucky that i get to spend so much time in environments where a strict adherence to grammar is not the norm, my own short comings with it don't show quiet so clearly :) > don't believe me when I answer. This is a case of using 'Standard English' > instead of the quasi-cockney patois the Lutonians espouse! Nothing wrong with using a bit of native tongue in a conversation. When I'm talking with people who know me and I'm comfortable with i often end up using a lot of slang and similar (Also my accent strengthens). I probably shouldn't but my accent and vocabulary are part of what makes me who i am so i see no reason to worry about them. With people who don't know me however i do keep a conscious check on my accent and wording so as to not offend or be incomprehensible. (I often fail at both ;)) Although i try to stay accentless in work :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Silly postings
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 01:59:05PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: > > Ok so that is possibly the most unfunny thing i have ever seen. No offense. > If that's what you think was it necessary to quote the entire message? > MBM (hasn't done this flame on london.pm yet... :) So was it you or Greg that drove him to jump ship? ;) I think it was discovering people that actually owned unicycles that did it... Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: sub BEGIN {}
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:52:32PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: > Last time I went to Lonix, it was full of w4r3z d00dz. :( The kind of > people who only used linux because they didn't have to pay for it. How long ago was this? I'm worried now in case i was there and looked like a w4r3z d00dz ;) > Tushar was an exception. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: sub BEGIN {}
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:14:48AM +0100, Dean wrote: > > > I'm not sure I'll be able to make it though - I've got things to prepare > > > for this talk at GLLUG on Saturday. While i'm doing this i might as well plug the Lonix tonight (www.lonix.org.uk) Lonix is normally pub, pub, food, pub maybe club. It covers as much Linux as the London PM social nights do Perl ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: sub BEGIN {}
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:02:14PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: > > > > I'm not sure I'll be able to make it though - I've got things to prepare > > for this talk at GLLUG on Saturday. > > > Details? Location? URL? -Paste >The next GLLUG meeting will be on Saturday 7th April 2001, between 2 and >6pm. New venue this time, we will be at the > >CFC Preview Theatre, >19-23 Wells St., >London W1, > >not too far from the Plaza Centre in Oxford Street. For a handy map, >take a look >at >http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=W1P3FP&Z=1 > >For your edutainment, we hope to have the following talks on the day. > > > >Martin Ling - "Wireless networking with Linux and the Consume.net >project" > >Martin will provide an overview of wireless networking support in Linux, >and explain how one can use low cost hardware to join in a spreading, >decentralized and independent network being established through the >consume.net project. If you already have wireless hardware, feel free to >bring it along and join in the fun. > > > >John Hearns - "Computers Go to the Movies". > >It is a general introduction to the work of our host FrameStore, a post >production movie house in Soho. He'll cover the equipment, computing >and networking used for special effects and 3D animation work. > > > >Richard Moore (IBM) - "Dynamic Probes" > >Richard will tell us how to use IBM's DProbes with Opersys' Linux Trace >Toolkit to provide a universal (dynamic) tracing capability for Linux. >It is universal because it provides a common tracing mechanism for all >executables whether in user or kernel space. It is dynamic because >tracepoints are defined and applied dynamically to object modules as >probepoints using DProbes - no source code modification is required. > >See >http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/linux/projects/dprob es/ >for a taster of things to come. ---Stop-- Now if only someone would do a community news letter to cover this stuff... I've seen Johns talk at SAGE-WISE and its a good one. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:39:55AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote: > I don't know which education system you went through, but I was taught all > this stuff at primary school. I think it's just because the pupils couln't > be beggared to learn it properly (as you suggest), preferring to subscribe > to the "well, you know what I mean" school of thought. I was at school from up to 1995 and grammer, hand writing and similar were only lightly touched upon. IT was another subject that we never actually did (other than read about spreadsheets leading to my adult hatred of Excel) and as far as I'm aware none of my friends of the same age did any real grammer in school so you can expect a fair size chunk of 20-22 year olds to have no real grasp of what constitutes good grammar. Although i have to say that I'm one of the worse for this, i drop into slang and similar almost all the time outside of work, not to mention that my emails to friends are written as I'd say them. Is it just me or do we seem to thread drift a lot recently... > I remember last year I helped a designer chum of mine subscribe to (void), Did he have lots of wasted disk space you felt the need to use? ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: sub BEGIN {}
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:06:14AM +0100, Martin Ling wrote: > I'm not sure I'll be able to make it though - I've got things to prepare > for this talk at GLLUG on Saturday. Which is on a subject a lot of people on the list are interested in, wireless networking and the Consume.net project so you might get to meet some of this lot anyway :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: sub BEGIN {}
-Original Message- From: Martin Ling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> YOu havent been around here very long have you :) >Indeed, that was just my observation on a few posts' worth. Who *knows* >what I might conclude about a whole day's traffic.. Stick with drunks, it'll save time. And the meetings on Thursday so you announced yourself just in time! ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Crazy Idea
On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 04:52:52PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > Hmmm. Do the words "foot" and "mouth" mean nothing to you? > i was using the working assumption, that the time for the F&M ban > to be lifted was less than the time required for london.pm to > organise this London PM and the Labour govenernment... which will act first? Irresistible force meets immovable object ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Crazy Idea
On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 03:29:04PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: > How would people in London.pm like a one night camp out, subject > to the F&M issue going away. The plan would be - we bundle into > vehicles on a given afternoon (probably saturday), go to a farm > shop and get lots of cider, and then spend the night around a > camp fire, drinking and talking. Cool idea. I'll come if we can have marshmallows ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: archiving
On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 02:17:01PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: >> So, should we start baiting Scientologists through the archive? > Where do I start? Posting the fishman affidavit should do it. ;) > * The "church" was responsible for the closure of anon.penet.fi and recently > forced Slashdot to edit some comments. Forced is a bit strong. They used the (Broken) DMCA law and told Slashdot what to do. Slashdot realized that this wasn't every-ones favourite bad guy Microsoft and realized that they had not a leg to stand on. The reason i have such a jaded view of this is that the situation was very similar to the Microsoft Kerberus one and Slashdot held their ground over that one. Also it was amusing to see the comments praising the decision to back down and remove the article. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Perl Certification Drive
>I think the money aspect is very important. This isn't YAS, it's supposed to >be a professional qualification for professional programmers. £300 sounds >like a good number for me. "If it only costs a fiver then what good can it >be" will be the PHB's attitude, I've seen this often. The important difference here is that you have the cost of the course and the cost of the exam as separate items. Let NetThink charge £2000 for a weeks course that corporate interests can see but remember to have a separate £45-60 for each exam. That way you don't need corporate sponsorship just to get one of these. I don't know if it fits in with the other idea's but one of the things I'd like is the ability to just walk into a training centre, book an appointment and then do the exam the next day, no trying to get a week off work, no major fees just the exam. If you force people to do an expensive training course you lose alot of appeal. Dean --
Re: Job: I'm looking for one..
Original Message- From: Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 12:02:48PM +0100, alex wrote: >> ps the big killer is that there is no large corporate generating tons of >> noise about Perl - whereas this is not the case for Java. > >Wait until TPC. Ahh come on! We need more than that! :) Where are all the things like Perl advocacy, PR, Business Awareness and non-technical expansion plans for the language discussed? Dean -- Perl coder in a sea of PHP.
Re: Debuggers (was Re: Perl Training Courses)
On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:45:57AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: > > > You have a decent Perl debugger. It's called perl -d. > > > > Eugh. perl -d:ptkdb please. > > Yeah. Now use that when you only have telnet access to your development > system :-/ Not even an ssh connection? > > Now with added pointy and clickyness. > > Now with added Ludditeness. Wait till Activestate get their IDE's out for Linux and the plugin for Visual Studio... I can't wait. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Perl Training Courses
-Original Message- From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Seriously, we were surprised when another conference announced itself >over top of our dates, so we're trying to work out how best to deal with >that (move, reposition, whatever). Never ever think conferences are >easy. I think half of the list is the choir on this one ;) Anyone submitting anything for this? http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/ Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.
On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:18:47AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: > > Take a look at this <http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Date-MMDDYY>. > > Now give me: > > a) a two reasons why this module should never have been written, and > b) as many flaws as possible in the implementation. Submit a patch for conversion to DDMMYY and see if it gets incorporated :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Strange Request
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:40:26AM +, Dave Cross wrote: > I guess the problem is that you could create an archive of CGI programs > written by the best Perl programmers in the world but people would _still_ > find Matt's scripts first. > There's a marketing battle that needs to be fought first. We need, somehow, > to ensure that newbie CGI programmers read criticisms of Matt's scripts > _before_ they find Matt's Script Archive. And I don't know how you're going > to undo five years of misinformation and achieve that. I disagree with the marketing battle first, if all we can offer is "That's bad stuff" with no alternatives then Matts stuff is going to be used by people who need a tool but can't write it. A couple of the Linux groups I'm on discuss CGI stuff like webboards every now and again and i can tell them not to use Matts stuff but when it comes down to actually giving them constructive advice i can't, AFAIK there's no real perl alternatives and I've seen three people set up PHPWebboards because they can get them. If we had secure, efficient and easy to use options then we could begin the re-education and spreading the word but since we don't we have to admit that Matts stuff is better than nothing. Dean PS I have no intention of getting involved in the writing of an alternative :) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Strange Request
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:52:12AM +, Dave Cross wrote: > Just been wandering around the website and (as an owner of the book) was > able to access the 'private' areas. Well if you have a look at the vulnerabilitys database on securityfocus.com then you too can be an admin of the message board and tidy up his code for him ;) Thanks to everyone who sent me code off list. I shall protect the names of the not quite innocent. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Autoconf Magic
On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 11:23:04AM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
> Anybody know anything about doing autoconf stuff (for a C makefile, sad
> but it's necessary) or know any good place to look?
Not personally but i have this in my bookmark list:
http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html
HTH
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
--- Anon
Re: DJ jabbers on the O'Reilly Network
On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 10:39:43AM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: > suggestion for website: > > How about a page of our acheivments? > > ie CPAN modules, Books, credits, talks and drinking feats? If you were going to do this shouldn't they just go under the member pages on london.pm.org? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Strange Request
Does any one here have any smallish programs (around the 50 lines mark) that are badly written and need a tidy up? (I've seen the 12 steps, i know your hiding the good stuff) I'm looking for a few bits of code (Not Obfuscated contest level though :)) that i can use as examples of bad coding style. If all else fails I'll be raiding Matts script archive ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: RPC stuff
-Original Message- From: Jonathan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >What's the best way forward for RPC / distributed Perl stuff? I don't need >anything super complicated, but RPC::Simple seems to want to use Tk ?! XML-RPC and SOAP are both interesting at the mo. Homepage http://www.xmlrpc.org/ XML-RPC perl tutorial. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-xpc1/?dwzone=ws SOAP::Lite tutorial. http://home.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-7704-8-4874769-1.html Although neither are really my field. Dean (Must stay on topic...) -- Perl Coder SecTech E-mail troll Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Bletchley Park Day Trip?
On Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:55:12PM -0500, D'Arcy, Hamlet wrote: > Hello all, > First off, this event is neither santioned nor condoned by the London PM > group. > > I'm planning a day trip out to Bletchley Park to see the museum and the > enigma machine, possibly on Sunday March 18th. (note that it is the day > after St. Patrick's Day). > > If anyone is interested in joining me reply to this address (rather than the > list at large). Dates are open for discussion. GLLUG have been in the planning stages for a trip like this to Bletchley for about six months, i had a quick noise on GLLUG and there are at least five people interested in going (Including me) do we want to make this a LondonPM/GLLUG day-out and get a minibus and stuff? We could have a "Jolly Boys[0]" outting... Dean [0] Yes its from that show. -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Ruby
On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:10:39PM +, James Powell wrote: > > Yes, I use it, and I know a bit about it. It's fun. > > Can you give us some more details, I'm interested too ;) > > What's the performance like, library availability, > can you recommend any of the books on it etc etc? The only real Ruby book is http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201710897/o/qid=983463763/sr=2-2/026-5269617-9691618 Its a pretty good book although i've not yet finished it... ORA has a Ruby pocket reference but its not in English. Nat anything planned? I've only played with Ruby a bit in Win32 enviroment and its libs there are very good. not done any GUI stuff with it yet. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: de-dupe a filesystem
-Original Message- From: Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Anyone got anything to hand that will spot massive duplications in a >filesystem? I've got a whole bunch of servers mirrored to a backup >server and it's be nice to identify where entire file trees have been >replicated... You could run diff on the checksum files that tripwire makes. You do tripwire your servers don't you? ;) This came up on a list recently, I've never used it but it seems to fit your problem. It looks like a trial version is available http://www.veracity.com/apps_compremote.shtml HTH Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Perl Books
-Original Message- From: Benjamin Holzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can perform >brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a paper >cut the week before. You haven't been to the NHS recently have you... ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Perl Books
-Original Message- From: Elaine -HFB- Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >anyone other than Webheads have better things to do than learn CGI. It >doesn't make them stupid, in fact, I'd almost argue that they are the >bright ones. Amen. >Which is probably about 95% of the planet. Why should they care if the >Perl is shoddy? The web page works :) I can see your point and I agree that a tiny initial learning curve is a good thing but what happens when the shoddy bit of cgi is used to execute an intrusion on the host it's based on or another machine?. The coder has a responsibility to make sure that his work at least pays some attention to security. And if the book doesn't cover use warnings or use strict I doubt taint mode is in the contents. If you thought Simons Buffy joke was bad have a look at this, you want the Tainted Perl section... http://www.spy.org.uk/london2600/party-2000.htm Dean (Packing for Belgium so not at tonight's meeting) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Perl Books
-Original Message- From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Hey, if she's allowed to plug, so am I :-) The 2nd edition of "CGI >Programming with Perl" (O'Reilly of course) is pretty bloody good Duh, its an O'Reilly. ;) Also L Steins Network Programming with Perl is a good book. I'm only a chunk into it buts its a good read on its own and an even better one if your not from a Unix background. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
London Community News 30/01/00
GLLUG and Lonix members so if your interested in going you may not be alone. The GLLUG mailing list is currently the place to be if your interested in going. Also Fydor is planning to visit London after the meeting so if you don't manage to get to Brussels then you may still get the opportunity to hear him speak. (Further details on the location when I get them.) Other Stuff --- Community Recognition: In this section I'd like to include people or companies that have contributed or helped one or more of the user groups in some way. A lot of people quietly contribute time, money or effort and get no recognition for it. This month I'd like to thank: Blackstar (www.blackstar.co.uk) Blackstar were amazing sponsors of both YAPC::Europe and buying Damian Conway (http://www.yetanother.org/damian/b+w/about.html) and have contributed a lot to the Perl Community in recent months as well as founding a new Perl mongers user group. Veritas www.veritas.com Some of the staff of Veritas not only did a succession of excellent talks at the last two GLLUG meetings GLLUG but then took the whole of the last GLLUG meeting out for a sponsored curry afterwards. And as anyone who knows me knows this is one of my weakspots. --- This month only Personal thanks: I'd like to say thanks to John Hearns for pushing the idea and usefulness of this e-mail, he helped kick me into doing this (Blame him :)). I'd also like to say thank you to Jonathan Crompton from SAGE-WISE for his enthusiasm and rapid responses when I was trying to get the idea off the ground. Any comments (Good or bad), suggestions of groups to add or ideas for recognition of services to London Community groups are welcome at [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTH Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: odd -w effect
Original Message- From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Must remember to try IE under WINE. > >Don't bother. It doesn't work. I've seen IE5 running under wine on Debian. The machine did have a 98 partition though so he might have been using the libraries from there, is that cheating? :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: odd -w effect
-Original Message- From: Robert Shiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running >samba >> is the prefered development environment. > >Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for doing X >stuff. If you've got a nice meaty box at home then run Linux with NT in vmware, you get a very nice system that way. You have a two machine subnet for clean network testing that can be firewalled off at the Linux host os, you can use procmail to check for vbs viri and then use outlook and IE for web browsing. Its how I used to do 95% of my work. Well until my motherboard started frying harddrives... Dean PS Running Linux in VMWare on NT works fine as well but its sick :) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Perl Books
I was having a look at the perl book reviews on Amazon (Yes boycott,
yes they have good reviews) when I came across this
Proceedings of the Perl Conference 4.0
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596000138/qid=980264576/sr=1
-62/202-4272860-9199824
I didn't get to go to that conference so can anyone who did go and
knows anything about this tell me if it contains details on the talks
and similar?
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
--- Anon
Re: Extreme Programming (was: Re: Consultancy company)
-Original Message- From: Aaron Trevena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I did a little pair programming at emap - I probably wasn't doing it right >tho'. even so we did get thru the hard bits quicker and could split up to >do the easy stuff. I think it made a difference but then I was mostly >being a backseat coder so either we did okay or stuart was very tolerant >indeed. How did you establish who would make good pairings? Was it done by trying to place two equals or was it done more on a mentoring level of a very experienced coder and a less experienced one? (I've not read that much on XP) Has anyone who's used XP had a client that was willing to make an employee available pretty much full time or was it more they come in for a chunk of the afternoon three times a week? I have an issue with the fact that clients will be willing to pay a member of staff to spend all day in the consultants office in case they need to be asked questions. I'm not saying its a bad thing to have someone on hand, I can see its uses but from the clients point of view why not just have contact by phone/email. That was the liaison has access to everyone in his base office so he can resolve issues faster with more authority than if he were in your offices. Also you have a paper trail of requests, questions and responses. Is the Monday night meeting still on for those of us who can't make the lunch time one? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Advice
-Original Message- From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Advice is soreley needed. Don't work anywhere that Aaron does, he's jinxed. If he worked at Stonehenge then they'd use EJB's within the week ;) (Sorry Aaron hehe) >If I quit now then I have a week's notice period. If I quit after the >end of the month I have 3 months. I'd hang it out till the end of the month and know that i had the three months security, that way your not going to be forced into taking the first paying job that comes along and you can be a bit more picky about what role you do take. >I've found myself freakily enjoying the low level stuff and I'd like to >learn new stuff. What kind of low level stuff are you interested in? kernel/device drivers kind of thing or something else entirely? Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
-Original Message- From: Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >(I'll have to remember that pop quizzes are a good way to force the >lurkers out of hiding :) Nope its the lure of free alcohol. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
>On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 11:08:41AM +, alex wrote: >> >> In my opinion London would be fine for an August conference. >> >> I don't know what the fuss is about, really. London is not like Paris in >> the summer. We have a lot more parks. >> >> Perhaps September would be better, but hey. I could go with September, if you go for before August the start of July has a selection of stuff already in planning: The summer Linux Developers' Conference Fri 29th June to Sun 1st July. Linux Expo Weds 4th - Thurs 5th July in London. LinuxTag Stuttgart (Germany) 5th-8th July 2001. Also there is going to be a UKLISA in the second half of this year but I'm not too sure of dates. HTH Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: one liner
-Original Message- From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >* Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: >> I was wondering how hard it would be to put together a mini Application >> server toolkit. Hows this for a starting point? http://www.apachetoolbox.com/ He has porting it to perl as a future plan... Maybe with London PM's help? > of course you need a name, I personally like Rope - its Yeah "We give you enough software to hang yourself" :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: one liner
-Original Message- From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Before I launch in a kind of defence of the book, let me remind you >all that I liked the book before Tim started signing my paycheque. :-) Uncross those fingers. ;) Since your in the know what perl books are forthcoming? Anything on Perl XML? >There are perldoc pages? When I was learning, I struggled for months >to find a comprehensive set of manpages on Perl/Tk. It seemed that >there were patchy Perl docs (some widgets covered, some not), and all >the Tcl/Tk docs (leaving me with no idea of how the widget options and >calling conventions work in *Perl*). I was interested in perl/tk about 10 months ago and found both a newsgroup and some miscellaneous postings linking to lots of perl docs for it. Guess I was just lucky. None of the stuff I found covered reasonable sized apps though. >I wonder whether the fact that you wanted a different book isn't >clouding your opinion of this one. It sounds like you wanted >something else. Other than having "a couple of complete sample >applications", and without the detailed widget descriptions, I can't >work out what it was. I would like to know, though. Your probably right, i would have prefered something with a higher emphasis on hands on. I'm curious as to how you view the book though, to me it is an OK reference. Its not a tutorial or an intorduction and it's not really for advanced principles. I lumped it in as a reference as that was what i thought it was best at. >Learning Perl/Tk isn't really *meant* to be a reference. Like the >other Learning books, it's supposed to be an introduction to the >subject. The Perl/Tk Pocket Ref, as you point out, is a much better >reference. Learning Perl/Tk tells you how to write Perl/Tk programs, >what widgets are at your disposal, and what they do. I know that it's not intended to be a full reference but that was the best use i found for it, there were no real intorductions to Tk just an overview of a widget and maybe one example of its use, and they were pretty scarce. A couple of self contained examples of use for each widget, thirty lines or so would have pushed it towards being an introduction but as it stands i'd class it as a reference book because of the comprehensive option lists. >In fairness, I do have to say that the writing in the Perl/Tk book >needed another editorial pass. We realize that in hindsight. It's >still readable, just a little ... quirky :-) I liked the authors style, it gave it more of a... personal, not too polished touch :) The only two ORA books i've ever really disliked were Apache The Definitive guide first edition which just seemed to be all over the place (Nice technical description) and Building Linux Clusters which was a waste of paper but i was contacted by someone at ORA over my views on that and i was satisfied by their responce (They saw my comments on (void). Beware ORA agents are everywhere! :)) >I can't even find this on their web site. Is it still being worked >on? Good question, I can't see it either. And they seem to have dropped the "Perl Tools" book. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: one liner
-Original Message- From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Data point: the O'Reilly Perl/Tk book mysteriously jumped in the >Amazon sales rankings lately. It's been in the 100-300 range the last >few weeks. Toilet paper must be scarce ;) I dislike the Learning Perl/TK book and I'm waiting for the Manning one which seems to have been delayed more times than the railtrack service. Learning Perl/TK just seemed to be too much of a rehash of the perldoc pages, a couple of complete sample applications in the later half of the book would have been nice rather than wasting four pages listing the options for a button, something thats both in the docs and in the much better purchase Perl/Tk pocket reference (Which has all the options but takes a lot less time to read and reference.) There were no nice self-contained applications that showed all the basic details that you build from for your own use, the book just seemed like a selection of unconnected option lists. Simon Cozen's articles are a much better read and learning point and Learning Perl/TK should be used as an off-line reference if its used at all. IMHO Then again I've never written a book so what do I know :) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: one liner
-Original Message- From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Dean S Wilson writes: >> Has anyone tried Linux glade recently? Is it stable with perl yet? >The TPJ that's stalled at the printers has a fantuckingfastic article >on getting started with Glade and Perl/Gtk. I now hate you. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: one liner
-Original Message- From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether: >> the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language is the >> projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more cool >> projects than perl > >Yes. This is because Perl is not thought of as being a GUI >language[1]. Discuss Perls very good at GUI's, we've got bindings for TK, Gnome (A module that I can't find the alpha code for...), GTK, GTK-Perl, Win32::GUI, Qt-Perl and Qt... Hang on maybe this is part of the problem... ;) What is missing is a nice GUI drawing program like VB that writes out perl code GUI's and calls perl code for events. Activestate's work on making perl com components has done some inroads with this on Windows. Has anyone tried Linux glade recently? Is it stable with perl yet? I'm not advocating VB over perl but VB has its niche, its good for drawing quick frontends for apps like small databases and similar. Having a similar tool that allowed you to write all the call-backs in perl while getting rid of the monotony of writing combo boxes would be nice. Which is what I'm hoping glade will become. When I'm forced into GUI's I end up using Tk because it'll normally run under Windows and Linux. Does anyone think that compilation is an issue with perls lack of user space apps? Discuss[1]. Dean [1] Yes we have become one with (void) Wheres arp. -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
