Re: So what do we all think good or bad about the new home button?

[Brandon A. Olivares]

I love the button. It gives a lot of feedback and does feel a lot like a real 
button.

Brandon
> On Sep 18, 2016, at 12:51 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wonder what people think about the new home button?  I was skeptical.  I had 
> a chance to hold the phone prelaunch but not use it for any length of time.  
> It was attached to another device so we were testing from the PC and 
> controlling the device remotely.  Now that I’ve had a 24 hour period to use 
> it, I really dig it.  I was afraid because I don’t like the capacitive 
> buttons on Android.  They don’t have any feedback or even physical 
> identifier.  It feels surprisingly real to me.  When you press and get that 
> response it feels a lot like a button.  I also like the response is 
> configurable.  I know others disagree though so I’m interested in what others 
> using the 7 think of the touch sensitive virtual button.
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
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So what do we all think good or bad about the new home button?

[Scott Granados]

Wonder what people think about the new home button?  I was skeptical.  I had a 
chance to hold the phone prelaunch but not use it for any length of time.  It 
was attached to another device so we were testing from the PC and controlling 
the device remotely.  Now that I’ve had a 24 hour period to use it, I really 
dig it.  I was afraid because I don’t like the capacitive buttons on Android.  
They don’t have any feedback or even physical identifier.  It feels 
surprisingly real to me.  When you press and get that response it feels a lot 
like a button.  I also like the response is configurable.  I know others 
disagree though so I’m interested in what others using the 7 think of the touch 
sensitive virtual button.

Thanks
Scott

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Re: Visual voicemail

[Scott Granados]

No problem on T-Mobile either.

> On Sep 18, 2016, at 12:16 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Chris,
> 
> Not sure if that's actually an Apple issue or an AT & T issue.  If other 
> carriers are not experiencing the problem, then might it not be an issue at 
> the AT & T end?  I'm able to delete VoiceMail from my Visual VoiceMail just 
> fine, although I'm in Canada and, of course, not with AT & T.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 21:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland  > wrote:
> 
> Looks like Apple's broken the AT wireless visual voicemail part of the 
> phone app in iOS 10.  I can't delete any of my messages.  When I double tap 
> on delete, nothing happens, they stay right there.  When I try to upload a 
> new greeting, it says unknown error.  Boy!  Apple's really dropped the bomb 
> this time.  I normally am not one for complaining about things regarding 
> Apple, but this is crazy!
>  
> Chris.
> 
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Re: Visual voicemail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Shrugs.  Point? taken.
---
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Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tim Kilburn 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 12:16 AM
  Subject: Re: Visual voicemail


  Chris,


  Not sure if that's actually an Apple issue or an AT & T issue.  If other 
carriers are not experiencing the problem, then might it not be an issue at the 
AT & T end?  I'm able to delete VoiceMail from my Visual VoiceMail just fine, 
although I'm in Canada and, of course, not with AT & T.


  Later...






  Tim Kilburn
  Fort McMurray, AB Canada 


  On Sep 17, 2016, at 21:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:


  Looks like Apple's broken the AT wireless visual voicemail part of the 
phone app in iOS 10.  I can't delete any of my messages.  When I double tap on 
delete, nothing happens, they stay right there.  When I try to upload a new 
greeting, it says unknown error.  Boy!  Apple's really dropped the bomb this 
time.  I normally am not one for complaining about things regarding Apple, but 
this is crazy!

  Chris.


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Re: Visual voicemail

[Tim Kilburn]

Chris,

Not sure if that's actually an Apple issue or an AT & T issue.  If other 
carriers are not experiencing the problem, then might it not be an issue at the 
AT & T end?  I'm able to delete VoiceMail from my Visual VoiceMail just fine, 
although I'm in Canada and, of course, not with AT & T.

Later...



Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 21:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:

Looks like Apple's broken the AT wireless visual voicemail part of the phone 
app in iOS 10.  I can't delete any of my messages.  When I double tap on 
delete, nothing happens, they stay right there.  When I try to upload a new 
greeting, it says unknown error.  Boy!  Apple's really dropped the bomb this 
time.  I normally am not one for complaining about things regarding Apple, but 
this is crazy!
 
Chris.

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Re: battery issue after IOS update

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I had this for a bit as well.  It seems to have got better now.  I chalked it 
up to the downloading of apps and media that goes on in the background even 
after the initial update.  It seemed so bad to begin with that my regular 
iPhone charger didn't seem to have the ump to charge the phone as it was 
sometimes draining power even though it registered as charging and connected to 
AC power.  The second night after I updated, I charged it with an iPad charger 
instead of the iPhone one and it all seems back to normal.  Not sure if that 
had anything to do with it or if it just finished all the background stuff it 
needed to do after the update.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 21:45, Pete Nalda  wrote:

I can concur with this. Seems like the battery on my 6+ drains out after about 
8 hours, where I used to get 12. 

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda 
Facebook.com/lpnalda 
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda 
Twitter: @lpnalda

On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:47 PM, Simon Fogarty > wrote:

> Morning list,
>  
> Just wondering if anyone else is noticing more of a battery drain on their 
> device after IOS 10 updated to?
>  
> I’ve got the 6+ and a iPad mini 4 after 36 hours for my iPad it’s down to 
> just above 50% charge and the phone since this morning is down to 74% which 
> is a lot more  useage than nromal
> 
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Re: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi Simon,

The 6S does it as well.  I turned it off rather quickly as every time I got up 
out of my chair, climbed the stairs or anything of the sort, my iPhone started 
babbling away announcing notifications, the time and anything else on the 
screen that I had been ignoring.  It can be turned off in Settings, Display & 
Brightness.

Probably fine for a sighted user but definitely annoying for us listeners.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 21:08, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi Donna,

Not just the 7 but the 6s+ also.

It's something to do with this new raise to speak 
It's starting to get annoying 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, 18 September 2016 2:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: iPhone 7 very chatty?

Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, it 
seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity of the 
phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Can not understand how to get the new window in Finderthe new window in findera

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Both the methods mentioned by ET and Portia work for getting between windows.  
Using various VO navigation commands can get you to the various windows.  For 
example, if you had two different folders on your Desktop, open one normally 
with cmd-o.  then press VO-shift-d or cmd-accent to bring focus back to the 
Desktop, navigate to the folder you wish to also have open, press cmd-o and you 
will now have two windows open.  The cmd-accent command, which is a MacOS 
command will cycle you through the various windows or VO-f2-f2 is the VO Window 
Chooser which will list the various windows open within the focused 
application.  Note that the Finder is considered an application.

HTH.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 17:14, Portia Scott  wrote:

Command plus your accent key can also switch between finder windows.

Hth,

Portia.
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I read a very great article about how to use the finder, I will put
> it's link here incase for any new user like me.
> but what is strange for me now is the new window, when I press Command
> N, I got a window with all files,  I need to close it, I hit command
> w, the window closed, and don't know how can I go out from the all
> files window, I need to open 2 different windows inside finder to copy
> and paste somethings.
> can you tell me how?
> 
> Here is the link to the article that I mentioned:
> http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/getting-started-os-x-finder
> -- 
> Ramy MoustafaSaber
> Music instructor @:
> Faculty ofmusical education
> Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
> Harmony Recording Studio
> https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg
> 
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Re: battery issue after IOS update

[Pete Nalda]

I can concur with this. Seems like the battery on my 6+ drains out after about 
8 hours, where I used to get 12. 

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
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Twitter: @lpnalda

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:47 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Morning list,
>  
> Just wondering if anyone else is noticing more of a battery drain on their 
> device after IOS 10 updated to?
>  
> I’ve got the 6+ and a iPad mini 4 after 36 hours for my iPad it’s down to 
> just above 50% charge and the phone since this morning is down to 74% which 
> is a lot more  useage than nromal
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Re: battery issue after IOS update

[Mary Otten]

It certainly seems like it on my 6S. And I'm not sure on my iPad mini two. I 
use it a lot less and I use my success. And a lot of the time the screen is 
locked, since usually I'm using it for reading with voice dream or music. So 
battery drain might be less that way.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 7:47 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Morning list,
>  
> Just wondering if anyone else is noticing more of a battery drain on their 
> device after IOS 10 updated to?
>  
> I’ve got the 6+ and a iPad mini 4 after 36 hours for my iPad it’s down to 
> just above 50% charge and the phone since this morning is down to 74% which 
> is a lot more  useage than nromal
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Visual voicemail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Looks like Apple's broken the AT wireless visual voicemail part of the phone 
app in iOS 10.  I can't delete any of my messages.  When I double tap on 
delete, nothing happens, they stay right there.  When I try to upload a new 
greeting, it says unknown error.  Boy!  Apple's really dropped the bomb this 
time.  I normally am not one for complaining about things regarding Apple, but 
this is crazy!

Chris.

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Re: Android was Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Scott Granados]

I totally agree with you on the voices.  I have eloquence on my droid device 
and enjoy that a lot.  Much more open on the voice side than Apple.  It’s nice 
that individual manufacturers can create their own TTS engines for android  and 
you can simply install them.

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Hello, I use Android on a regular basis. there are several Braille keyboards 
> for Android. the problem is that they require you to turn off explore by 
> touch. explore by touch is critical for navigating your phone using gestures. 
> so, I have never wanted to install one of these keyboards and try to make it 
> usable.
> 
> The default Google text to speech voices are pretty terrible. this might lead 
> you to believe that speech on Android is not quite as good as speech on iOS. 
> in fact, speech on Android is far superior to that on iOS. the number of 
> Manufacturers and the variety of voices you can actually purchase or download 
> for free is far and beyond that available on iOS.  Android also had 
> pronunciation dictionaries available starting with 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich 
> which are only now being introduced in iOS 10.
> 
> Braille  is another matter. yes it's nice to be able to hook up the few 
> supported Braille displays; however, they are not leveraging the full power 
> of Android to make Braille the wonderful experience that it could be.   
> especially not compared with iOS.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik
> .
> 
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com 
> On September 17, 2016 8:49:22 AM Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
>> Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
>> phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
>> podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on 
>> Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place 
>> as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the 
>> six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this 
>> method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time 
>> ago, didn’t like the voices.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
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>> 
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Re: Apple TV

[Scott Granados]

Yes, I think that’s correct.


> On Sep 17, 2016, at 2:20 PM, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> Oh, is this new in tvOS 10?
>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:41, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> It shows up under about as well I believe.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 2:27 AM, christopher hallsworth 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> To check the battery level go to settings>remotes and devices.
 On 17 Sep 2016, at 01:37, Brandon A. Olivares  
 wrote:
 
 Sorry for the vague subject. I have a few questions, as I just got the 
 Apple TV 4th generation.
 
 First, how do you check the battery level of the remote? Not finding a way 
 so far.
 
 Second, in Netflix, the audio doesn’t seem to be so loud. Is it because of 
 Voiceover? Even when I have the volume up 100%, Voiceover is very loud, 
 but the audio is only moderately loud. Any idea why?
 
 Thanks,
 Brandon
 
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Re: How are you guys liking the new version of ITunes?

[E.T.]

   Just worked in iTunes today, after adding some videos. I did not see 
a great deal of change and was able to do the Get Info and move those 
videos to my desired playlist.


   Maybe I am just pragmatic when it comes to changes everywhere but I 
find it easier most times to roll with the punches and learn continually 
as I go along. I also find it helpful to escapes the clutches of 
technology and do things not involving these devices.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/17/2016 8:10 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Yeah the new itunes I find a pain to work with,

 Trying to put meta data against my books or music files is just apinfull after 
being able to do it seamlessly  in prior versions

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Blee Blat
Sent: Sunday, 18 September 2016 2:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How are you guys liking the new version of ITunes?

Yup. They really should do that because I only ever use the music portion. I'd 
use it for podcasts, except downcast does that better. They should have file 
management and syncing in another app as well. The only reason I bother with 
iTunes is to sync or update the phone and listen to music. It should look like 
iOS where they have separate apps for everything. .



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<>

Re: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Scott Granados]

No it opens the unlock screen so a sited person could raise their phone and not 
have to touch the button to see the notifications.  I disabled the feature, 
couldn’t find much use for it.

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Is speaking the time the only functionality of Raise to wake? 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 11:07 AM Aleeha Dudley  > wrote:
> You can turn that off by going into display and brightness settings, and 
> turning off raise to wake. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
>> Interesting.  I just assumed it was the phone. I kind of like it, but 
>> wouldn't mind a little less. :)
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna, I have a 6S plus and the same thing happens. It has to be related to 
>>> iOS 10. Perhaps there is a setting where that can be changed. I percent 
>>> like it, because when I wake up, and I did just grab the phone and hear the 
>>> time.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, 
 it seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity 
 of the phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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RE: How are you guys liking the new version of ITunes?

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah the new itunes I find a pain to work with,

 Trying to put meta data against my books or music files is just apinfull after 
being able to do it seamlessly  in prior versions

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Blee Blat
Sent: Sunday, 18 September 2016 2:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How are you guys liking the new version of ITunes?

Yup. They really should do that because I only ever use the music portion. I'd 
use it for podcasts, except downcast does that better. They should have file 
management and syncing in another app as well. The only reason I bother with 
iTunes is to sync or update the phone and listen to music. It should look like 
iOS where they have separate apps for everything. .

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RE: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

 Not just the 7 but the 6s+ also.

 It's something to do with this new raise to speak 
It's starting to get annoying 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Sunday, 18 September 2016 2:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: iPhone 7 very chatty?

Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, it 
seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity of the 
phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation

[Scott Granados]

Absolutely true, I went with the stainless steel version and I love wearing it. 
 I get more fun out of my 500 dollar watches than my 250K watch.

I can’t wait to hold a series 2 to see how they compare in feel and appearance. 
 I haven’t warn any other watch for a year now put it that way and I have a 
bunch of nice high end watches sitting in self winders ready to go.


> On Sep 17, 2016, at 2:21 PM, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> I have the sports watch and have been told it’s very snazzy indeed. So you 
> don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get a snazzy watch.
>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:41, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I am not against expensive watches by any means, I have a Patek that’s north 
>> of 200 grand US but it’s a very limited addition and has 20 karats of 
>> diamonds so you feel like you got something.  17 grand for a little gold 
>> that’s only worth $1330 per ounce round numbers seems excessive.  Give me 
>> the steel option for under $1000 and I’m happy it does the exact same thing 
>> and is probably more durable.
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:29 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah the gold watch here in nz was 32 K nz dollars. Give or take!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 12:59 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>>> 
>>> They over charge for the gold model.  I looked at one and it was 17 grand 
>>> or $17,000 US.  Put some diamonds on there and maybe although they add up 
>>> quick.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And apple have dropped the gold version of their watch because it wasn’t 
>>> selling.
>>> 
>>> Therefore they introduced the ceramic model.
>>> 
>>> From: 
>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 4:11 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>>> 
>>> I was torn between silver which matches the platinum watch I have or gold 
>>> which matches another watch I have. The only problem is when I made that 
>>> decision I realized that I have only been wearing steel apple watches since 
>>> they came out so it doesn’t matter any more.:)  I see why Rolex’s sales are 
>>> down 30% this year and they had to buy back their inventory from a lot of 
>>> distributors.  Everyone is wearing Fit Bit or apple watches now.  The 
>>> trendy and high end markets are no longer high end swiss watches made with 
>>> rare elements, it’s high tech.  For people wondering if the Apple Watch was 
>>> a success or if it’s a game changer, Ask Rolex, Patek, Tag or any of them 
>>> how it’s going?  :)  I have one watch that lost $40,000 in value over the 
>>> last year on the resale market.  I’m sure it will recover but isn’t it 
>>> funny how quietly that happened.  Sort of like a certain phone started to 
>>> catch on 9 years ago when Blackberry was king.
>>> 
>>> Apple has a way of creating these trends and shocking different markets.  
>>> I’m not sure how much is artificially created by limiting preproduction and 
>>> creating a pent up demand or if they really do get swamped with orders but 
>>> what ever, it works, stocks at a 10 month high now heading towards all time 
>>> high.
>>> 
>>> Go Mr. Cook!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My shipping estimate from T mobile is anywhere from September 26 through 
>>> October 10. I would've been happy with space gray, but they got rid of it, 
>>> so I went for Matt black. Obviously, since I can't see, I don't care about 
>>> color. But sighted friends tell me that the matblack will show the fewest 
>>> fingerprints and dirt. Works for me.
>>> 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary, you had to be one of the cool kids and get the black model.:)
>>> 
>>> I heard it’s back ordered until October, true?
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 10:54 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Oh good. Looking forward to it. Even though my phone is a few weeks away.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone, following on from our wrap of last week's Apple event, this 
>>> week's episode of The Blind Side Podcast features a comprehensive unboxing, 
>>> setting up, and then exploration of the new iPhone 7 Plus.
>>> If you'd like to take a listen, subscribe to The Blind Side Podcast in any 
>>> good podcatcher, or you can hear it on Sound Cloud via this URL.
>>> 

RE: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah I must admit I look at my keyboard when I’m typing but then I can look at 
themonitor as well either way I can’t see anything

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of John JD Denning
Sent: Sunday, 18 September 2016 1:30 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

I do, and have always done the same thing. I used to be a photographer and 
darkroom technician for the city of San Jose Police Department. I could be 
working with film in total darkness. And I'd be staring right at what I'm 
doing. Even though I knew I was doing it I couldn't not do it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 17, 2016, at 09:27, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:
You know, it's a funny thing.  I have some vision, but not enough to read large 
print or anything like that.  I can see colors, identify objects, stuff like 
that.  But even though I can see little more than the  lighting and some colors 
on my phone screen, I always look at my phone when I'm using it.  It occurred 
to me once that that was kind of silly, so I tried looking away.  It felt very 
odd, and I was unable to keep it up without thinking about it.  Now you all 
have me curious about whether I can draw a straight line.  I'm guessing 
probably not, but I'm going to have to try. lol
Cheers,
Donna

On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:14 AM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:

David, as I understand it this is a very profound brain issue in the different 
ways we process things with out vision.  People who lose vision early have much 
more difficulty with spacial issues and understanding physical space and 
direction than folks who had vision later or still do.


On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:43 PM, David Chittenden 
> wrote:

It was a sighted person who pointed this out to me. When a person has vision, 
they use the vision to direct where they are touching. For those without 
vision, and who have never had vision, things are significantly different. 
First, it is much more difficult to move in a straight line. In fact, it is 
almost impossible to do so.

Second, without vision, people's movements are considerably larger. The first 
time I attempted to use a mouse was with a sighted friend. He said he would 
tell me when to stop. I moved the mouse what I believed was a small amount. 
And, the mouse pointer disappeared from the screen. After the third try, he put 
his hand over mine and used my hand to move the mouse. It took several attempts 
before I was able to feel the tiny movements. In point of fact, this is the 
largest complaint blind people have when they are first learning to explore the 
screen. I tell people to move your finger as though you haven't really moved it.

So yes, your usable vision makes absolutely all the difference.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 17/09/2016, at 14:39, Mary Otten 
> wrote:
I have been using threading in iOS for sometime, mostly because I get a 
tremendous amount of list mail, and I do tend to delete entire thread depending 
on the subject line and the list. It's so much faster to delete a list of 10 or 
11 messages that you know you don't care about because of the subject line. The 
problem I have with the new system is that once you are into messages, and 
you're moving from one to the next hitting delete, all of a sudden you go to 
delete something and it says trash messages. So you have moved into a thread 
which you didn't know about. So now you can't trash all the messages. Then you 
have to go back and see what is there. It's just not fluid in that respect. I 
guess nothings perfect.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:
Hi David,

The thing that has kept me from adopting threaded view is that even within a 
thread I'll see a message from someone who I know writes good posts, and I'll 
decide to read it.  So, while on the one hand it seems like a very efficient 
way to organize mail, I think I would miss out on some messages that I end up 
reading and appreciating.
Cheers,
Donna
On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:05 PM, David Chittenden 
> wrote:

I, on the other hand, love threaded mail, now that I have figured out how it 
works.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 17/09/2016, at 09:41, Donna Goodin 
> wrote:
I'm liking IOS 10, as well, though I don't use threaded view in Mail.
Cheers,
Donna
On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Simon Fogarty 
> wrote:

Personally I think this is probly one 

Re: verizon wireless sucks!

[Scott Granados]

The Verizon phone is different from the t-mobile phone again.  The 6 and 6s 
where the same on all networks and used the same single cell modem.  The 7/7+ 
uses either Intel modems or qualcomm modems.  The Intel version is GSM only, no 
CDMA, the Verizon and Sprint models still have a Qualcomm chip in them and 
support CDMA.  Apple will be releasing a fully unlocked version in a few weeks 
with a Qualcomm modem so it supports all the networks.  A T-Mobile phone will 
work on Verizon but if you leave a 4G service area you won’t be able to drop to 
3G or 1X.  The intel modems will support CDMA probably by the end of next year 
as they bought a company with licenses in CDMA technology and will be able to 
add that to their chips.  I my self am using the intel version and so far very 
very good.  


> On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:24 PM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
> 
> So, best buy, sams club, and even target had verizon iPhone 7
> s still available today.  But they wouldn’t let me just buy it, said I had to 
> be a customer.  I guess T-mobile stopped partnering with the 3 companies 
> mentioned above, cause non of them offered t mobile service.  Sucks too, 
> cause I had the cash to drop on there counter and they wouldn’t take it.  
> Guess I gotta roll the dice with the apple store.
> 
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Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

What’s your opinion of Sprint today if you’re still on the network?  I was a 
sprint fan up until they tried WIMAX and totally in my opinion screwed their 
attempt at 4G just to be first.  Also had see a real fall off in the 3G network 
once they got the iPhone which hammered their network.  They seem to have been 
behind the 8 ball ever since.  I loved their network though when they were by 
far the best EV-DO provider.


> On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:36 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> After leaving Sprint mobileGeo was a survival tool while wandering the 
> streets of  Columbus, OHwhile working as a consultant. Most of you had left 
> for iPhones by then but being qa Sprint user all the back to Sprint PCS , i 
> had to wait until the 4s before using an iPhon  
> 
> I wish I still had my 1993 sprint phone to compare today's phones. dedicated
> 
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Re: battery issue after IOS update

[Scott Granados]

Hi Simon, I have not experienced this personally but I have heard of there 
being issues on IOS 10 after update.  You might try a restart but I’m sure 
you’ve tried all that obvious stuff.  Anything else change like you recently 
update to 802.11AC or something?  I have heard of the problem though but I 
haven’t experienced it so not sure the fix.

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:47 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Morning list,
>  
> Just wondering if anyone else is noticing more of a battery drain on their 
> device after IOS 10 updated to?
>  
> I’ve got the 6+ and a iPad mini 4 after 36 hours for my iPad it’s down to 
> just above 50% charge and the phone since this morning is down to 74% which 
> is a lot more  useage than nromal
> 
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Re: Head of Google groups management.

[Scott Granados]

Google groups I think is run pretty hands off.  I may be wrong on that but I 
think for the most part it’s pretty free spinning.  You should try 
ab...@google.com  though or google the abuse contact.  
They should be able to help you and all major businesses have one and usually 
use that type of address to receive complaints.
 

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 6:37 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know how to get hold of head of Google groups management? Just 
> that someone is trying to bully me on this list. And I want to get that 
> person off this list, as the moderators sit and do nothing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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battery issue after IOS update

[Simon Fogarty]

Morning list,

Just wondering if anyone else is noticing more of a battery drain on their 
device after IOS 10 updated to?

I’ve got the 6+ and a iPad mini 4 after 36 hours for my iPad it’s down to just 
above 50% charge and the phone since this morning is down to 74% which is a lot 
more  useage than nromal

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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Stacey Robinson]

Thanks David for all the helpful commands.
I’d been doing that with send.
Looks like I’m doing pretty well with this.

Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 6:31 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> The following gestures work in in braille screen input,any orientation, any 
> mode, all devices.
> 
> Space - single finger flick right
> Backspace - single finger flick left
> 
> Enter/search/go/return - two-finger flick right
> 
> delete word - two-finger klick left
> Spellcheck (cycle between suggestions - single-finger vertical flick (either 
> up or down)
> Change between available input modes (6 dot, contracted, eight dot (iPad 
> only)) - three-finger horrizontal flick
> 
> Lock orientation (screen away or table-top mode) - three-finger vertical flick
> 
> As for finding send buttons, Etc., braille screen input is a keyboard entry 
> mode. If the search button or go button or return button does not appear on 
> the onscreen keyboard, two-finger right flick will not activate them. In this 
> case, turn the rotor away from braille screen input. Then use standard 
> commands to locate and double-tap the button.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 18/09/2016, at 11:06, Stacey Robinson  > wrote:
> 
>> David,
>> I've been using braille screen input for quite a whileddI use screen away 
>> mode.
>> If I'm writing a message, how do I rather, what I've writen? If it's a text 
>> message, how do I find the send button?
>> Stacey and GEB dog Kirk.
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: David Chittenden  > >
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Date: Saturday, September 17, 2016 4:59 pm
>> Subject: Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I use braille screen input all the time, for just about everything.
>>> 
>>> I started teaching myself when it first came out. Back then, I worked with 
>>> it every day, several times per day, and could not get it reliably or 
>>> consistently for about a week. In other words, as with everything else 
>>> which is new, be patient with yourself, accept you are going to get it 
>>> wrong, and keep trying.
>>> 
>>> Dot calibration is your friend. Dot calibration moves the centre of each 
>>> dot under the middle of the particular finqer. On the iPhone, it requires 
>>> between about a quarter second and half of a second between the right hand 
>>> and the left hand. If you try dot calibration and iOS gives you 4 5 6 l, 
>>> you are pausing too long between the two hands. If, on the other hand, it 
>>> gives any combination of symbols with 4 or 5 dots in it, you are tapping 
>>> too quick between your left and right hands.
>>> 
>>> Why should I do dot calibration? It seems unfair. Well, you are blind. This 
>>> means, it is virtually impossible for you to put your fingers in the same 
>>> spots on the iDevice. As for how unfair it is, get over yourself. I perform 
>>> dot calibration every time I start writing. It takes about half a second, 
>>> and my writing is excellent, every time. Note: on the iPad, dot calibration 
>>> is different. for that device, tap with all 6 or 8 fingers (depending on 
>>> which braille input you are using. The first tap is followed by a second 
>>> tap which is within 1/4 to 1/2 second.
>>> 
>>> Brailling feels strange on the iPhone. It is different because one is not 
>>> touching the keys all the time. So, one's fingers tend to drift, which 
>>> eventually causes one to press incorrect dots with one or more fingers. At 
>>> this point, dot calibration is your friend again. It will realign the dots 
>>> to your fingers. Again, you are blind, so cannot realign your fingers to 
>>> the visible dots on the screen, so get over yourself.
>>> 
>>> I prefer away mode. I find that it is easier to keep my fingers in the same 
>>> positions on the screen when I am holding the iPhone with my thumbs on one 
>>> edge and my pinkys on the other edge. With the iPad, either mode works for 
>>> me. That said, When using the iPad in table-top mode, I touch the bottom 
>>> edge of the iPad with both thumbs to keep my fingers in the same locations 
>>> on the screen.
>>> 
>>> Listen to what VO is saying about what is being typed. This will help you 
>>> to understand what you are doing wrong. Braille Screen Input is as stable 
>>> as performing VO gestures, so you are the one making the errors. again, get 
>>> over yourself and build your skills. It is an excellent method of data 
>>> entry which does not require any other equipment, so can be used on the fly 
>>> / at a second's notice. And, one does not need to be concerned with 

Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[David Chittenden]

The following gestures work in in braille screen input,any orientation, any 
mode, all devices.

Space - single finger flick right
Backspace - single finger flick left

Enter/search/go/return - two-finger flick right

delete word - two-finger klick left
Spellcheck (cycle between suggestions - single-finger vertical flick (either up 
or down)
Change between available input modes (6 dot, contracted, eight dot (iPad only)) 
- three-finger horrizontal flick

Lock orientation (screen away or table-top mode) - three-finger vertical flick

As for finding send buttons, Etc., braille screen input is a keyboard entry 
mode. If the search button or go button or return button does not appear on the 
onscreen keyboard, two-finger right flick will not activate them. In this case, 
turn the rotor away from braille screen input. Then use standard commands to 
locate and double-tap the button.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 18/09/2016, at 11:06, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
> 
> David,
> I've been using braille screen input for quite a whileddI use screen away 
> mode.
> If I'm writing a message, how do I rather, what I've writen? If it's a text 
> message, how do I find the send button?
> Stacey and GEB dog Kirk.
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: David Chittenden  
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Date: Saturday, September 17, 2016 4:59 pm
> Subject: Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I use braille screen input all the time, for just about everything.
>> 
>> I started teaching myself when it first came out. Back then, I worked with 
>> it every day, several times per day, and could not get it reliably or 
>> consistently for about a week. In other words, as with everything else which 
>> is new, be patient with yourself, accept you are going to get it wrong, and 
>> keep trying.
>> 
>> Dot calibration is your friend. Dot calibration moves the centre of each dot 
>> under the middle of the particular finqer. On the iPhone, it requires 
>> between about a quarter second and half of a second between the right hand 
>> and the left hand. If you try dot calibration and iOS gives you 4 5 6 l, you 
>> are pausing too long between the two hands. If, on the other hand, it gives 
>> any combination of symbols with 4 or 5 dots in it, you are tapping too quick 
>> between your left and right hands.
>> 
>> Why should I do dot calibration? It seems unfair. Well, you are blind. This 
>> means, it is virtually impossible for you to put your fingers in the same 
>> spots on the iDevice. As for how unfair it is, get over yourself. I perform 
>> dot calibration every time I start writing. It takes about half a second, 
>> and my writing is excellent, every time. Note: on the iPad, dot calibration 
>> is different. for that device, tap with all 6 or 8 fingers (depending on 
>> which braille input you are using. The first tap is followed by a second tap 
>> which is within 1/4 to 1/2 second.
>> 
>> Brailling feels strange on the iPhone. It is different because one is not 
>> touching the keys all the time. So, one's fingers tend to drift, which 
>> eventually causes one to press incorrect dots with one or more fingers. At 
>> this point, dot calibration is your friend again. It will realign the dots 
>> to your fingers. Again, you are blind, so cannot realign your fingers to the 
>> visible dots on the screen, so get over yourself.
>> 
>> I prefer away mode. I find that it is easier to keep my fingers in the same 
>> positions on the screen when I am holding the iPhone with my thumbs on one 
>> edge and my pinkys on the other edge. With the iPad, either mode works for 
>> me. That said, When using the iPad in table-top mode, I touch the bottom 
>> edge of the iPad with both thumbs to keep my fingers in the same locations 
>> on the screen.
>> 
>> Listen to what VO is saying about what is being typed. This will help you to 
>> understand what you are doing wrong. Braille Screen Input is as stable as 
>> performing VO gestures, so you are the one making the errors. again, get 
>> over yourself and build your skills. It is an excellent method of data entry 
>> which does not require any other equipment, so can be used on the fly / at a 
>> second's notice. And, one does not need to be concerned with charging or 
>> pairing keyboards; not to mention the need to find an available surface to 
>> write on.
>> 
>> Now, whilst learning, if you continue making the same errors, write down 
>> what VO keeps saying you are intering, and I will attempt to figure out what 
>> you are doing wrong. Please work in 6 dot braille during this process. 
>> Contracted braille adds another layer of complexity as I would need to try 
>> to figure out which contractions you are using to figure out what you are 
>> doing with your fingers. Also, please state whether using table-top or away 

Re: hotkey to start safari

[Matthew Dierckens]

Hi Press, VO shift K to activate keyboard commander.
VO is either control plus option or caps lock.
Then, press right option and S to activate safari.

God bless.
Matthew Dierckens
Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
Macintosh, IOS  and Windows Trainer
JAWS for windows Certified - 2016
Canadian Phone: 519-962-9140
U.S. phone: 573-401-1018
Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 19:18, Daniel C  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> The setting mention is in voiceover utility preferences, it's called keyboard 
> commander. Once you activate keyboard commander, the option plus S will start 
> Safari.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 14:14, don bishop  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi all, 
>> How do you activate the hotkey (command so) to start safari?
>> I think it's a setting in system preference but not sure which one. 
>> 
>> Thanks, 
>> Don  
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[David Chittenden]

On the iPhone, touch and release the right side dots (dots 4 5 6), followed by 
the left side dots (dots 1 2 3). In other words, determine your input method, 
table-top mode or away mode. If Table top mode, make sure VO says the home 
button is on the side of the iPhone that it is actually physically on. Make 
sure all fingers of each hand are on the correct half of the display. I place 
my thumb tips against the bottom edge of the iPhone for stability, and place my 
pinkies along the two side (top and bottom edges of the phone), again for my 
more consistent finger placement. Next, touch and release with your three right 
fingers. After pulling the right fingers away, touch and release with your left 
three fingers, within 1/4 of a second, and 1/2 of a second. Thus, tap, tap 
(right, left). Naturally curl your fingers so the tips are tapping the iPhone. 
Also, the fingers need to be slightly spaced, and they need to be relaxed, like 
when brailling using a braille display.

For away mode, hold the iPhone in landscape position with the display facing 
away from you. Have the little fingers along the bottom edge, and the thumbs 
along the top edge. Because of positioning, becaveful not to press the 
sleep/wake button on the one edge and the volume buttons on the other edge (I 
was regularly locking my iPhone when I got my 6+ until I learned to mold my 
finger around it, or grip between it and the corner. The right, left finger 
tapping sequence is the same as table-top mode.

With the iPad, All 6 or 8 fingers must tap twice, rather than right, left. The 
timing is still the same, as is the need for aligning and stabilising your 
fingers.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 18/09/2016, at 10:16, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello David.
> 
> How do you calibrate please? I don't know what to do.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 10:59 pm, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I use braille screen input all the time, for just about everything.
>> 
>> I started teaching myself when it first came out. Back then, I worked with 
>> it every day, several times per day, and could not get it reliably or 
>> consistently for about a week. In other words, as with everything else which 
>> is new, be patient with yourself, accept you are going to get it wrong, and 
>> keep trying.
>> 
>> Dot calibration is your friend. Dot calibration moves the centre of each dot 
>> under the middle of the particular finqer. On the iPhone, it requires 
>> between about a quarter second and half of a second between the right hand 
>> and the left hand. If you try dot calibration and iOS gives you 4 5 6 l, you 
>> are pausing too long between the two hands. If, on the other hand, it gives 
>> any combination of symbols with 4 or 5 dots in it, you are tapping too quick 
>> between your left and right hands.
>> 
>> Why should I do dot calibration? It seems unfair. Well, you are blind. This 
>> means, it is virtually impossible for you to put your fingers in the same 
>> spots on the iDevice. As for how unfair it is, get over yourself. I perform 
>> dot calibration every time I start writing. It takes about half a second, 
>> and my writing is excellent, every time. Note: on the iPad, dot calibration 
>> is different. for that device, tap with all 6 or 8 fingers (depending on 
>> which braille input you are using. The first tap is followed by a second tap 
>> which is within 1/4 to 1/2 second.
>> 
>> Brailling feels strange on the iPhone. It is different because one is not 
>> touching the keys all the time. So, one's fingers tend to drift, which 
>> eventually causes one to press incorrect dots with one or more fingers. At 
>> this point, dot calibration is your friend again. It will realign the dots 
>> to your fingers. Again, you are blind, so cannot realign your fingers to the 
>> visible dots on the screen, so get over yourself.
>> 
>> I prefer away mode. I find that it is easier to keep my fingers in the same 
>> positions on the screen when I am holding the iPhone with my thumbs on one 
>> edge and my pinkys on the other edge. With the iPad, either mode works for 
>> me. That said, When using the iPad in table-top mode, I touch the bottom 
>> edge of the iPad with both thumbs to keep my fingers in the same locations 
>> on the screen.
>> 
>> Listen to what VO is saying about what is being typed. This will help you to 
>> understand what you are doing wrong. Braille Screen Input is as stable as 
>> performing VO gestures, so you are the one making the errors. again, get 
>> over yourself and build your skills. It is an excellent method of data entry 
>> which does not require any other equipment, so can be used on the fly / at a 
>> second's notice. And, one does not need to be concerned with charging or 
>> pairing keyboards; not to mention the need to find an available surface to 
>> write on.
>> 

Re: hotkey to start safari

[Daniel C]

Hi,
The setting mention is in voiceover utility preferences, it's called keyboard 
commander. Once you activate keyboard commander, the option plus S will start 
Safari.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 14:14, don bishop  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, 
> How do you activate the hotkey (command so) to start safari?
> I think it's a setting in system preference but not sure which one. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Don  
> 
> -- 
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Re: Can not understand how to get the new window in Finderthe new window in findera

[Portia Scott]

Command plus your accent key can also switch between finder windows.

Hth,

Portia.
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I read a very great article about how to use the finder, I will put
> it's link here incase for any new user like me.
> but what is strange for me now is the new window, when I press Command
> N, I got a window with all files,  I need to close it, I hit command
> w, the window closed, and don't know how can I go out from the all
> files window, I need to open 2 different windows inside finder to copy
> and paste somethings.
> can you tell me how?
> 
> Here is the link to the article that I mentioned:
> http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/getting-started-os-x-finder
> -- 
> Ramy MoustafaSaber
> Music instructor @:
> Faculty ofmusical education
> Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
> Harmony Recording Studio
> https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg
> 
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Re: Can not understand how to get the new window in Finderthe new window in findera

[E.T.]

   When you open a new window, navigate to the desired folder as usual. 
To swap back and forth, use VO f2 f2.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/17/2016 4:05 PM, Ramy Moustafa wrote:

ok, but if I need to take many things, and I need the 2 windows to be
opened, what shall I do?

On 9/17/16, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

The cmd-n command opens a new Finder window, and by default, it usually
opens the All Files window.  You really don't need both windows open at the
same time to copy and paste between them.  For example, if I had a file
called "copy Me" in a folder named "Stuff" on my Desktop, I could navigate
to that file, press cmd-c to Copy it, then navigate to wherever I wish to
paste it, press cmd-v to Paste and the file will be copied over.  I would
press cmd-option-v to move it over so that it only resides in the new
location.  This process also works for copying text or images, in that both
windows are not required to be open at the same time.  If you are dragging
files, then both windows need to be open, sort of.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 14:57, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:

Hello all:

I read a very great article about how to use the finder, I will put
it's link here incase for any new user like me.
but what is strange for me now is the new window, when I press Command
N, I got a window with all files,  I need to close it, I hit command
w, the window closed, and don't know how can I go out from the all
files window, I need to open 2 different windows inside finder to copy
and paste somethings.
can you tell me how?

Here is the link to the article that I mentioned:
http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/getting-started-os-x-finder
--
Ramy MoustafaSaber
Music instructor @:
Faculty ofmusical education
Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
Harmony Recording Studio
https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg

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<>

Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Stacey Robinson]

David,
I've been using braille screen input for quite a whileddI use screen away mode.
If I'm writing a message, how do I rather, what I've writen? If it's a text 
message, how do I find the send button?
Stacey and GEB dog Kirk.


- Original Message -
From: David Chittenden  
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 17, 2016 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

>
>
> Hi,
> 
> I use braille screen input all the time, for just about everything.
> 
> I started teaching myself when it first came out. Back then, I worked with it 
> every day, several times per day, and could not get it reliably or 
> consistently for about a week. In other words, as with everything else which 
> is new, be patient with yourself, accept you are going to get it wrong, and 
> keep trying.
> 
> Dot calibration is your friend. Dot calibration moves the centre of each dot 
> under the middle of the particular finqer. On the iPhone, it requires between 
> about a quarter second and half of a second between the right hand and the 
> left hand. If you try dot calibration and iOS gives you 4 5 6 l, you are 
> pausing too long between the two hands. If, on the other hand, it gives any 
> combination of symbols with 4 or 5 dots in it, you are tapping too quick 
> between your left and right hands.
> 
> Why should I do dot calibration? It seems unfair. Well, you are blind. This 
> means, it is virtually impossible for you to put your fingers in the same 
> spots on the iDevice. As for how unfair it is, get over yourself. I perform 
> dot calibration every time I start writing. It takes about half a second, and 
> my writing is excellent, every time. Note: on the iPad, dot calibration is 
> different. for that device, tap with all 6 or 8 fingers (depending on which 
> braille input you are using. The first tap is followed by a second tap which 
> is within 1/4 to 1/2 second.
> 
> Brailling feels strange on the iPhone. It is different because one is not 
> touching the keys all the time. So, one's fingers tend to drift, which 
> eventually causes one to press incorrect dots with one or more fingers. At 
> this point, dot calibration is your friend again. It will realign the dots to 
> your fingers. Again, you are blind, so cannot realign your fingers to the 
> visible dots on the screen, so get over yourself.
> 
> I prefer away mode. I find that it is easier to keep my fingers in the same 
> positions on the screen when I am holding the iPhone with my thumbs on one 
> edge and my pinkys on the other edge. With the iPad, either mode works for 
> me. That said, When using the iPad in table-top mode, I touch the bottom edge 
> of the iPad with both thumbs to keep my fingers in the same locations on the 
> screen.
> 
> Listen to what VO is saying about what is being typed. This will help you to 
> understand what you are doing wrong. Braille Screen Input is as stable as 
> performing VO gestures, so you are the one making the errors. again, get over 
> yourself and build your skills. It is an excellent method of data entry which 
> does not require any other equipment, so can be used on the fly / at a 
> second's notice. And, one does not need to be concerned with charging or 
> pairing keyboards; not to mention the need to find an available surface to 
> write on.
> 
> Now, whilst learning, if you continue making the same errors, write down what 
> VO keeps saying you are intering, and I will attempt to figure out what you 
> are doing wrong. Please work in 6 dot braille during this process. Contracted 
> braille adds another layer of complexity as I would need to try to figure out 
> which contractions you are using to figure out what you are doing with your 
> fingers. Also, please state whether using table-top or away mode, and your 
> device.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSCbi'c, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 18/09/2016, at 09:12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Alex,
> > 
> > This sounds very much like the problem I was first having when I tried it 
> > out this morning. However when I went back in and tried it a second time 
> > the problem seem to have corrected it self. I haven't spent a lot of time 
> > with it today but I have tried subsequently several times to use braille 
> > input and it worked every time.
> > Cheers,
> > Donna
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> >> 
> >> To anyone who can't get BSI to work: are you all having the same problem, 
> >> where dots appear completely out of order or are missing altogether? I saw 
> >> that briefly during one of the iOS8 incremental update betas, but never 
> >> since. I don't recall what worked, save several calibrations in a row, 
> >> done very fast. Failing that, has anyone tried a complete settings reset? 
> >> It's a bit drastic, I know, but it 

Re: Can not understand how to get the new window in Finderthe new window in findera

[Ramy Moustafa]

ok, but if I need to take many things, and I need the 2 windows to be
opened, what shall I do?

On 9/17/16, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The cmd-n command opens a new Finder window, and by default, it usually
> opens the All Files window.  You really don't need both windows open at the
> same time to copy and paste between them.  For example, if I had a file
> called "copy Me" in a folder named "Stuff" on my Desktop, I could navigate
> to that file, press cmd-c to Copy it, then navigate to wherever I wish to
> paste it, press cmd-v to Paste and the file will be copied over.  I would
> press cmd-option-v to move it over so that it only resides in the new
> location.  This process also works for copying text or images, in that both
> windows are not required to be open at the same time.  If you are dragging
> files, then both windows need to be open, sort of.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 14:57, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
>
> Hello all:
>
> I read a very great article about how to use the finder, I will put
> it's link here incase for any new user like me.
> but what is strange for me now is the new window, when I press Command
> N, I got a window with all files,  I need to close it, I hit command
> w, the window closed, and don't know how can I go out from the all
> files window, I need to open 2 different windows inside finder to copy
> and paste somethings.
> can you tell me how?
>
> Here is the link to the article that I mentioned:
> http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/getting-started-os-x-finder
> --
> Ramy MoustafaSaber
> Music instructor @:
> Faculty ofmusical education
> Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
> Harmony Recording Studio
> https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg
>
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-- 
Ramy MoustafaSaber
Music instructor @:
Faculty ofmusical education
Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
Harmony Recording Studio
https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg

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Re: Ios10 and accessibility

['Peggy' via MacVisionaries]

I just tried using a brailliant display on mail with ios10 update and it worked 
fine.
Peggy and Dixie Marie

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:

Hi, I don’t make that claim I have no idea whether braille will work well but I 
will try it now that you mention it.  I am not normally a braille user but I do 
have a display to test.

Maybe someone has a more informed opinion.  My complaints are generally about 
the mail app and voice over. Not that it’s unusable but I just feel the 
interface now is more clumsy.  I’ve spoken to a few who dislike the new mail 
setup from a voice over perspective.

> On Sep 11, 2016, at 12:15 AM, Helga Schreiber  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott.  How are you? I read braille, but I don't use it so much with my 
> Iphone, only sometimes! However, my boyfriend is a braille user to his iPhone 
> since he is deafblind. I really want him to get IOS 10. Why do you say it wil 
> not work with the mail app? H euse that a lot with his focus 14 display. I 
> know you are nto allow to mention it before he release, but do you have any 
> ideas why it may not work yet. I look forward in hearing from you soon. 
> Thanks and God bless!
> 
>   Helga Schreiber 
> Group Moderator  
>  
>   for the IPad help for the blind 
>  
> ipadhelpfortheblind+subscr...@groups.io  
> 
> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
> Students.
> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
> Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
> Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
> Skype: helga.schreiber26 
> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 
> 
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
> Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 9.3.5   
> 
>> On Sep 9, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Scott Davert  wrote:
>> 
>> If you're a braille display user and use the Mail app heavily, I'd
>> hold off on updating. More details to follow on release day.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>>> On 9/9/16, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> Not for my Bose AE 2 wireless.
>>> But i think this is more a Bose problem than an Apple one.
>>> I am not sure how to update the firmware on my Bose headphones.
>>> /A
 On 9 Sep 2016, at 00:44, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 Update with out hesitation, it’s a great release.  It fixes a lot of the
 audio routing problems as well at least the ones I was having so well
 worth it in my case and I feel it will be for others as well.
 
 The mac OSX release is also very very good.  Update em if you got em.
 
 For what it’s worth, this is the best software release Apple has done post
 Jobs in my opinion.  Not necessarily for features but more for stability
 and just a good all around solid release with fewer bugs than previous
 whole number updates.
 
 
> On Sep 8, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> Can You AsA Developer-BetaTester Give YourRecommendation as WhetherOrNot
> to Update Your Apple iDevice-iOSDevice TO iOS10 when its Launched ON
> Tuesday,September13th? Is iOS10 Ready4PrimeTime MoreSpecifically
> ForTotallyBlind users?
> JustWonderin'
> At 10:26 AM 9/8/2016, you wrote:
>> With me also being a dev, I along with Alex can concur with Shawn.
>> Being the official release date isn't until next week, we devs as well
>> as public testers are still on NDA for just a little while longer.  Hang
>> in there though guys, it won't be much longer.
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>> 
>> clgillan...@gmail.com
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message - From: "Shawn Krasniuk"
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 10:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: Ios10 and accessibility
>> 
>> 
>>> Yes, but they wait until the official release date to tell you the
>>> accessibility features because they're still under NDA like everyone
>>> else. Alex Hall can confirm this.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On Sep 8, 2016, at 9:19 AM, Stacey Robinson 
 wrote:
 
 Can someone tell me where I can go to read about the accessibility
 features in IOS10?
 
 Peace,
 Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
 
 mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
 
 --
 The following 

Head of Google groups management.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Does anyone know how to get hold of head of Google groups management? Just that 
someone is trying to bully me on this list. And I want to get that person off 
this list, as the moderators sit and do nothing.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hello David.

How do you calibrate please? I don't know what to do.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Sep 2016, at 10:59 pm, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I use braille screen input all the time, for just about everything.
> 
> I started teaching myself when it first came out. Back then, I worked with it 
> every day, several times per day, and could not get it reliably or 
> consistently for about a week. In other words, as with everything else which 
> is new, be patient with yourself, accept you are going to get it wrong, and 
> keep trying.
> 
> Dot calibration is your friend. Dot calibration moves the centre of each dot 
> under the middle of the particular finqer. On the iPhone, it requires between 
> about a quarter second and half of a second between the right hand and the 
> left hand. If you try dot calibration and iOS gives you 4 5 6 l, you are 
> pausing too long between the two hands. If, on the other hand, it gives any 
> combination of symbols with 4 or 5 dots in it, you are tapping too quick 
> between your left and right hands.
> 
> Why should I do dot calibration? It seems unfair. Well, you are blind. This 
> means, it is virtually impossible for you to put your fingers in the same 
> spots on the iDevice. As for how unfair it is, get over yourself. I perform 
> dot calibration every time I start writing. It takes about half a second, and 
> my writing is excellent, every time. Note: on the iPad, dot calibration is 
> different. for that device, tap with all 6 or 8 fingers (depending on which 
> braille input you are using. The first tap is followed by a second tap which 
> is within 1/4 to 1/2 second.
> 
> Brailling feels strange on the iPhone. It is different because one is not 
> touching the keys all the time. So, one's fingers tend to drift, which 
> eventually causes one to press incorrect dots with one or more fingers. At 
> this point, dot calibration is your friend again. It will realign the dots to 
> your fingers. Again, you are blind, so cannot realign your fingers to the 
> visible dots on the screen, so get over yourself.
> 
> I prefer away mode. I find that it is easier to keep my fingers in the same 
> positions on the screen when I am holding the iPhone with my thumbs on one 
> edge and my pinkys on the other edge. With the iPad, either mode works for 
> me. That said, When using the iPad in table-top mode, I touch the bottom edge 
> of the iPad with both thumbs to keep my fingers in the same locations on the 
> screen.
> 
> Listen to what VO is saying about what is being typed. This will help you to 
> understand what you are doing wrong. Braille Screen Input is as stable as 
> performing VO gestures, so you are the one making the errors. again, get over 
> yourself and build your skills. It is an excellent method of data entry which 
> does not require any other equipment, so can be used on the fly / at a 
> second's notice. And, one does not need to be concerned with charging or 
> pairing keyboards; not to mention the need to find an available surface to 
> write on.
> 
> Now, whilst learning, if you continue making the same errors, write down what 
> VO keeps saying you are intering, and I will attempt to figure out what you 
> are doing wrong. Please work in 6 dot braille during this process. Contracted 
> braille adds another layer of complexity as I would need to try to figure out 
> which contractions you are using to figure out what you are doing with your 
> fingers. Also, please state whether using table-top or away mode, and your 
> device.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 18/09/2016, at 09:12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Alex,
>> 
>> This sounds very much like the problem I was first having when I tried it 
>> out this morning. However when I went back in and tried it a second time the 
>> problem seem to have corrected it self. I haven't spent a lot of time with 
>> it today but I have tried subsequently several times to use braille input 
>> and it worked every time.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> To anyone who can't get BSI to work: are you all having the same problem, 
>>> where dots appear completely out of order or are missing altogether? I saw 
>>> that briefly during one of the iOS8 incremental update betas, but never 
>>> since. I don't recall what worked, save several calibrations in a row, done 
>>> very fast. Failing that, has anyone tried a complete settings reset? It's a 
>>> bit drastic, I know, but it won't touch any of your data or apps and will 
>>> mean only that you have to take ten minutes and set up all your settings 
>>> again. This includes time, mail fetch, notifications, and so on. 
>>> Critically, it also includes all accessibility. Possibly this will make 
>>> things work?
>>> 
>>> Finally, 

Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[David Chittenden]

Hi,

I use braille screen input all the time, for just about everything.

I started teaching myself when it first came out. Back then, I worked with it 
every day, several times per day, and could not get it reliably or consistently 
for about a week. In other words, as with everything else which is new, be 
patient with yourself, accept you are going to get it wrong, and keep trying.

Dot calibration is your friend. Dot calibration moves the centre of each dot 
under the middle of the particular finqer. On the iPhone, it requires between 
about a quarter second and half of a second between the right hand and the left 
hand. If you try dot calibration and iOS gives you 4 5 6 l, you are pausing too 
long between the two hands. If, on the other hand, it gives any combination of 
symbols with 4 or 5 dots in it, you are tapping too quick between your left and 
right hands.

Why should I do dot calibration? It seems unfair. Well, you are blind. This 
means, it is virtually impossible for you to put your fingers in the same spots 
on the iDevice. As for how unfair it is, get over yourself. I perform dot 
calibration every time I start writing. It takes about half a second, and my 
writing is excellent, every time. Note: on the iPad, dot calibration is 
different. for that device, tap with all 6 or 8 fingers (depending on which 
braille input you are using. The first tap is followed by a second tap which is 
within 1/4 to 1/2 second.

Brailling feels strange on the iPhone. It is different because one is not 
touching the keys all the time. So, one's fingers tend to drift, which 
eventually causes one to press incorrect dots with one or more fingers. At this 
point, dot calibration is your friend again. It will realign the dots to your 
fingers. Again, you are blind, so cannot realign your fingers to the visible 
dots on the screen, so get over yourself.

I prefer away mode. I find that it is easier to keep my fingers in the same 
positions on the screen when I am holding the iPhone with my thumbs on one edge 
and my pinkys on the other edge. With the iPad, either mode works for me. That 
said, When using the iPad in table-top mode, I touch the bottom edge of the 
iPad with both thumbs to keep my fingers in the same locations on the screen.

Listen to what VO is saying about what is being typed. This will help you to 
understand what you are doing wrong. Braille Screen Input is as stable as 
performing VO gestures, so you are the one making the errors. again, get over 
yourself and build your skills. It is an excellent method of data entry which 
does not require any other equipment, so can be used on the fly / at a second's 
notice. And, one does not need to be concerned with charging or pairing 
keyboards; not to mention the need to find an available surface to write on.

Now, whilst learning, if you continue making the same errors, write down what 
VO keeps saying you are intering, and I will attempt to figure out what you are 
doing wrong. Please work in 6 dot braille during this process. Contracted 
braille adds another layer of complexity as I would need to try to figure out 
which contractions you are using to figure out what you are doing with your 
fingers. Also, please state whether using table-top or away mode, and your 
device.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 18/09/2016, at 09:12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> This sounds very much like the problem I was first having when I tried it out 
> this morning. However when I went back in and tried it a second time the 
> problem seem to have corrected it self. I haven't spent a lot of time with it 
> today but I have tried subsequently several times to use braille input and it 
> worked every time.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> To anyone who can't get BSI to work: are you all having the same problem, 
>> where dots appear completely out of order or are missing altogether? I saw 
>> that briefly during one of the iOS8 incremental update betas, but never 
>> since. I don't recall what worked, save several calibrations in a row, done 
>> very fast. Failing that, has anyone tried a complete settings reset? It's a 
>> bit drastic, I know, but it won't touch any of your data or apps and will 
>> mean only that you have to take ten minutes and set up all your settings 
>> again. This includes time, mail fetch, notifications, and so on. Critically, 
>> it also includes all accessibility. Possibly this will make things work?
>> 
>> Finally, if you have a friend who *has* gotten this to work, have you 
>> borrowed their device? This way, you can tell for sure if it's your own iOS 
>> device doing something wrong, or yourself not quite understanding something 
>> fully.
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 15:46, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I 

Re: iPhone and incoming calls

[E.T.]

   I will try this the next time if the call I am on can stand to be 
put on hold. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/16/2016 3:03 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

E.T. the way it should work is with voice over enabled you’ll hear incoming 
call and you can swipe to various options including hold and accept which holds 
the current call, end and accept which switches calls and drops the existing, 
message which means message the new caller, and ignore.  To the left you’d hear 
the number and name if available.  You can also during a call press the hide 
button and add calls to a conference / 3way call as well on the outgoing side.

Hope that helps.


On Sep 16, 2016, at 5:34 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  Curious to know how an incoming call is handled when I am already on a call. 
I think it happened today and not expecting it, did not hear VO as it was muted 
during my call.

  I heard beeps but had to stay on my call.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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<>

Re: User Authentication is Required

[E.T.]

   Is this necessary possibly because the login was not fully 
completed? It may not happen again for a long time but I will remember 
to try this keystroke. Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/17/2016 11:59 AM, Mr. Robert Cole wrote:

Press VO Shift Space.
You should now be able to log in Normaly.

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 17, 2016, at 2:49 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  That sounds logical. When I try to get the Windows Chooser, there are no 
windows. This happens rarely so its hard to figure out what is behind it.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 9/17/2016 11:19 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
Hi,

This usually happens because the OS or some app is trying to make changes that 
require authentication.   It's odd that the message doesn't re-appear upon 
reboot.  We need to determine if there is a password field or some other dialog 
that is present when this is heard before we can come up with a solution.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:34, E.T.  wrote:

 Sometimes I get this message after booting El Capitan. I have to force a shut 
down as I cannot access the menu bar to do a restart and if I try to invoke the 
Application Chooser, that is when I hear the above message. What causes this 
and can it be fixed?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


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<>

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Jonathan Cohn]

After leaving Sprint mobileGeo was a survival tool while wandering the
streets of Columbus, OHwhile working as a consultant. Most of you had left
for iPhones by then but being qa Sprint user all the back to Sprint PCS , i
had to wait until the 4s before using an iPhon

I wish I still had my 1993 sprint phone to compare today's phones. dedicated

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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Alex,

This sounds very much like the problem I was first having when I tried it out 
this morning. However when I went back in and tried it a second time the 
problem seem to have corrected it self. I haven't spent a lot of time with it 
today but I have tried subsequently several times to use braille input and it 
worked every time.
Cheers,
Donna


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> To anyone who can't get BSI to work: are you all having the same problem, 
> where dots appear completely out of order or are missing altogether? I saw 
> that briefly during one of the iOS8 incremental update betas, but never 
> since. I don't recall what worked, save several calibrations in a row, done 
> very fast. Failing that, has anyone tried a complete settings reset? It's a 
> bit drastic, I know, but it won't touch any of your data or apps and will 
> mean only that you have to take ten minutes and set up all your settings 
> again. This includes time, mail fetch, notifications, and so on. Critically, 
> it also includes all accessibility. Possibly this will make things work?
> 
> Finally, if you have a friend who *has* gotten this to work, have you 
> borrowed their device? This way, you can tell for sure if it's your own iOS 
> device doing something wrong, or yourself not quite understanding something 
> fully.
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 15:46, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I heard that podcast, and you did an excellent job  with it.  I still 
>> however to this very day cannot get it to work regardless how closely I 
>> follow the tips you provided, and honestly, about 4 of my other friends 
>> can't seem to get it either.
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>>  
>> i...@gillandmarketing.com
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Alex Hall
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:37 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?
>>> 
>>> I don't have a link handy, but I did one a year or two ago that will still 
>>> be relevant. You can find it on Applevis; I'd search for "mehgcap braille 
>>> screen input" which should find you my podcast and guide. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Sep 17, 2016, at 08:48, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
 phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
 podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast 
 on Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same 
 place as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do 
 all the six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have 
 this method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long 
 time ago, didn’t like the voices.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Kawal.
 I'm fundraising for RNIB.
 
 Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
 Giving page. 
 
 To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
 http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can also 
 sponsor me online.
 
 
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 Visionaries list.
  
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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Blee Blat]

Make that 5 friends. Bluetooth keyboards and touch typing are handy. Sure it 
eats a bit of battery but it works.

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Re: Can not understand how to get the new window in Finderthe new window in findera

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

The cmd-n command opens a new Finder window, and by default, it usually opens 
the All Files window.  You really don't need both windows open at the same time 
to copy and paste between them.  For example, if I had a file called "copy Me" 
in a folder named "Stuff" on my Desktop, I could navigate to that file, press 
cmd-c to Copy it, then navigate to wherever I wish to paste it, press cmd-v to 
Paste and the file will be copied over.  I would press cmd-option-v to move it 
over so that it only resides in the new location.  This process also works for 
copying text or images, in that both windows are not required to be open at the 
same time.  If you are dragging files, then both windows need to be open, sort 
of.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 14:57, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:

Hello all:

I read a very great article about how to use the finder, I will put
it's link here incase for any new user like me.
but what is strange for me now is the new window, when I press Command
N, I got a window with all files,  I need to close it, I hit command
w, the window closed, and don't know how can I go out from the all
files window, I need to open 2 different windows inside finder to copy
and paste somethings.
can you tell me how?

Here is the link to the article that I mentioned:
http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/getting-started-os-x-finder
-- 
Ramy MoustafaSaber
Music instructor @:
Faculty ofmusical education
Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
Harmony Recording Studio
https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg

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Can not understand how to get the new window in Finderthe new window in findera

[Ramy Moustafa]

Hello all:

I read a very great article about how to use the finder, I will put
it's link here incase for any new user like me.
but what is strange for me now is the new window, when I press Command
N, I got a window with all files,  I need to close it, I hit command
w, the window closed, and don't know how can I go out from the all
files window, I need to open 2 different windows inside finder to copy
and paste somethings.
can you tell me how?

Here is the link to the article that I mentioned:
http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x/getting-started-os-x-finder
-- 
Ramy MoustafaSaber
Music instructor @:
Faculty ofmusical education
Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
Harmony Recording Studio
https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg

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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Alex Hall]

To anyone who can't get BSI to work: are you all having the same problem, where 
dots appear completely out of order or are missing altogether? I saw that 
briefly during one of the iOS8 incremental update betas, but never since. I 
don't recall what worked, save several calibrations in a row, done very fast. 
Failing that, has anyone tried a complete settings reset? It's a bit drastic, I 
know, but it won't touch any of your data or apps and will mean only that you 
have to take ten minutes and set up all your settings again. This includes 
time, mail fetch, notifications, and so on. Critically, it also includes all 
accessibility. Possibly this will make things work?

Finally, if you have a friend who *has* gotten this to work, have you borrowed 
their device? This way, you can tell for sure if it's your own iOS device doing 
something wrong, or yourself not quite understanding something fully.
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 15:46, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> I heard that podcast, and you did an excellent job with it.  I still however 
> to this very day cannot get it to work regardless how closely I follow the 
> tips you provided, and honestly, about 4 of my other friends can't seem to 
> get it either.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Alex Hall 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?
>> 
>> I don't have a link handy, but I did one a year or two ago that will still 
>> be relevant. You can find it on Applevis; I'd search for "mehgcap braille 
>> screen input" which should find you my podcast and guide. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 08:48, Kawal Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
>>> phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
>>> podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on 
>>> Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place 
>>> as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the 
>>> six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this 
>>> method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time 
>>> ago, didn’t like the voices.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>>> 
>>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
>>> Giving page. 
>>> 
>>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
>>> http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>>>  where you can also 
>>> sponsor me online.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>>  
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>> 
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>>  
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>> 

verizon wireless sucks!

[Kliphton Miller]

So, best buy, sams club, and even target had verizon iPhone 7
s still available today.  But they wouldn’t let me just buy it, said I had to 
be a customer.  I guess T-mobile stopped partnering with the 3 companies 
mentioned above, cause non of them offered t mobile service.  Sucks too, cause 
I had the cash to drop on there counter and they wouldn’t take it.  Guess I 
gotta roll the dice with the apple store.

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hotkey to start safari

[don bishop]

Hi all, 
How do you activate the hotkey (command so) to start safari?
I think it's a setting in system preference but not sure which one. 

Thanks, 
Don  

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My inbox keeps disappearing on my I phone.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi.

I keep losing my inbox for my mail when using my I phone.  It’s happened twice 
now and even though I have restarted the phone, it’s not coming back.  It was 
fine all day until this afternoon.  Even if I send myself a test message, it’s 
not showing up.  Any one else had this problem?
I'm fundraising for RNIB.

Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money Giving 
page. 

To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can also sponsor me 
online.

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Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I’d never buy the Apple Sports watch again from Apple.  My very first watch 
lost it’s power too many times after touching it.  So hence I think the steel 
ones will be better.  I hope to get my Series 2 in October a day after my 
birthday.
> On 17 Sep 2016, at 19:21, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> I have the sports watch and have been told it’s very snazzy indeed. So you 
> don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get a snazzy watch.
>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:41, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I am not against expensive watches by any means, I have a Patek that’s north 
>> of 200 grand US but it’s a very limited addition and has 20 karats of 
>> diamonds so you feel like you got something.  17 grand for a little gold 
>> that’s only worth $1330 per ounce round numbers seems excessive.  Give me 
>> the steel option for under $1000 and I’m happy it does the exact same thing 
>> and is probably more durable.
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:29 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah the gold watch here in nz was 32 K nz dollars. Give or take!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 12:59 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>>> 
>>> They over charge for the gold model.  I looked at one and it was 17 grand 
>>> or $17,000 US.  Put some diamonds on there and maybe although they add up 
>>> quick.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And apple have dropped the gold version of their watch because it wasn’t 
>>> selling.
>>> 
>>> Therefore they introduced the ceramic model.
>>> 
>>> From: 
>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 4:11 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>>> 
>>> I was torn between silver which matches the platinum watch I have or gold 
>>> which matches another watch I have. The only problem is when I made that 
>>> decision I realized that I have only been wearing steel apple watches since 
>>> they came out so it doesn’t matter any more.:)  I see why Rolex’s sales are 
>>> down 30% this year and they had to buy back their inventory from a lot of 
>>> distributors.  Everyone is wearing Fit Bit or apple watches now.  The 
>>> trendy and high end markets are no longer high end swiss watches made with 
>>> rare elements, it’s high tech.  For people wondering if the Apple Watch was 
>>> a success or if it’s a game changer, Ask Rolex, Patek, Tag or any of them 
>>> how it’s going?  :)  I have one watch that lost $40,000 in value over the 
>>> last year on the resale market.  I’m sure it will recover but isn’t it 
>>> funny how quietly that happened.  Sort of like a certain phone started to 
>>> catch on 9 years ago when Blackberry was king.
>>> 
>>> Apple has a way of creating these trends and shocking different markets.  
>>> I’m not sure how much is artificially created by limiting preproduction and 
>>> creating a pent up demand or if they really do get swamped with orders but 
>>> what ever, it works, stocks at a 10 month high now heading towards all time 
>>> high.
>>> 
>>> Go Mr. Cook!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My shipping estimate from T mobile is anywhere from September 26 through 
>>> October 10. I would've been happy with space gray, but they got rid of it, 
>>> so I went for Matt black. Obviously, since I can't see, I don't care about 
>>> color. But sighted friends tell me that the matblack will show the fewest 
>>> fingerprints and dirt. Works for me.
>>> 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary, you had to be one of the cool kids and get the black model.:)
>>> 
>>> I heard it’s back ordered until October, true?
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 10:54 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Oh good. Looking forward to it. Even though my phone is a few weeks away.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone, following on from our wrap of last week's Apple event, this 
>>> week's episode of The Blind Side Podcast features a comprehensive unboxing, 
>>> setting up, and then exploration of the new iPhone 7 Plus.
>>> If you'd like to take a listen, subscribe to The Blind Side Podcast in any 
>>> good podcatcher, or you can hear it on Sound Cloud via this URL.
>>> https://soundcloud.com/theblindsidepodcast/episode6
>>> Hope you find it interesting.
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology 

Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Dictation, I can do no problem.  It's the braille input that CF's me over.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Blee Blat" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do 
it?



I wonder the same thing. I gave up on braille input and dictation and just 
use a bluetooth keyboard if I really need to type something longer on the 
phone.


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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I totally agree, and yes, I have calibrated the dots.  It doesn't seem to 
help in the least.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Donna Goodin" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:27 AM
Subject: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?


So, seeing Kawal's post, I decided to give this another go.  Nothing I do 
seems to work.  the dots all seem to be in the wrong places, and I can't get 
a dot 2 to save my soul.  When I type an O it comes out as a U.  When I type 
a period, it comes out as WH (dots 1-5-6.  Also, I'd be curious to know if 
you use screen away or tabletop mode.  Each seems to bring it's own 
problems, but I'd love to know if there's one people have found to work 
better.

Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I heard that podcast, and you did an excellent job with it.  I still however to 
this very day cannot get it to work regardless how closely I follow the tips 
you provided, and honestly, about 4 of my other friends can't seem to get it 
either.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex Hall 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:37 AM
  Subject: Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?


  I don't have a link handy, but I did one a year or two ago that will still be 
relevant. You can find it on Applevis; I'd search for "mehgcap braille screen 
input" which should find you my podcast and guide. 

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Sep 17, 2016, at 08:48, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:


Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s podcast 
today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on Braille 
output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place as I don’t 
know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the six finger 
combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this method?  Just 
curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time ago, didn’t like 
the voices.


Thanks.


Kawal.

I'm fundraising for RNIB.

Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
Giving page. 

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Got an iPhone 7 or iPhone 7 Plus? Do these 10 things first

[-dan d.]

http://www.macworld.com/article/3120859/apple-phone/got-an-iphone-7-or-iphone-7-plus-do-these-10-things-first.html#tk.rss_all

XB

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iPhone 7 scratch test raises serious durability concerns

[-dan d.]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-7-scratch-test-raises-serious-durability-concerns/#ftag=RSSbaffb68

XB

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iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending a VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Fact That the Native Mail "Most Recent Message on Top", Toggle Setting, Does not Function as Expected

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple regarding the
fact that the iOS 10 native Mail "Most Recent Message on Top", Toggle
Setting, Does not Function as Expected

I have already written the report, complete with a workaround, so all you
need to do is to paste it into a new email, either in its entirety or
modified as you wish, and send it to any and all Apple channels to which you
have access.

As a side note, I find it most curious that, while one can search and
display the native iOS Mail app in the App Store, on an iOS device, there is
no where, at least not one that I could find, to leave a review of the app.
Oversight?  Hmm.  

[BEGIN REPORT]
Subject:
IOS 10 VoiceOver Native Mail Bug:  "Most Recent Message on Top", Toggle,
Does not Function as Expected

SUMMARY:
Even when the "Most Recent Message on Top", toggle, located in
Settings/Mail, is set to "Off", the first message just below the thread's
subject line, when viewed from the Inbox, is always the most recent post to
the conversation.  As a consequence, if I want to read the original post to
a thread, I have to first single-finger right-swipe all the way down to the
first message in the conversation list and then single-finger left-swipe
back up, one message at a time.

STEPS TO REPRODUCE THE BUG:
1.
In Settings/Mail, 
Set "Preview" to None.
Set "Organize by Thread" to On.
Set "Most Recent Message on Top" to Off.
Set "Complete Thread" to Off.

2.
Open the Mail app.

3.
Place focus on a collapsed thread.

4.
>From the VoiceOver Rotor, select "Expand Thread".  The thread will expand
downward.  

5.
Now, single-finger swipe to the right in order to move to the first message
listed below the subject line of the conversation and, as expected,
VoiceOver reads the complete text of the message.

The bug is that, even when the "Most Recent Message on Top", toggle, is set
to "Off", the first message listed just below the thread's subject line is
always the most recent post to the thread. As a consequence, if I want to
read the original post to a thread, I have to first single-finger
right-swipe all the way down to the first message in the conversation list
and then single-finger left-swipe back up, one message at a time.

WORKAROUND:
1.
Make certain that "Preview" is set to "None".

2.
Make certain that the "Most Recent Message on Top" toggle is set to "Off".

3.
Open the Mail app.

4.
Place focus on a collapsed thread that is marked as being "unread".

5.
Single-finger, double-tap the thread to open the conversation.  The oldest
message in the thread will be correctly displayed.  

6.
If necessary, on the VoiceOver Rotor, select "Messages".  Now, simply
single-finger swipe down (from top to bottom) in order to be taken to the
next message in the conversation, moving forward in time.  VoiceOver should
automatically read the contents of each message.
[END REPORT]

Thank you,

Mark

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Re: User Authentication is Required

[Mr. Robert Cole]

Press VO Shift Space.
You should now be able to log in Normaly.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 2:49 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   That sounds logical. When I try to get the Windows Chooser, there are no 
> windows. This happens rarely so its hard to figure out what is behind it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 9/17/2016 11:19 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> This usually happens because the OS or some app is trying to make changes 
>> that require authentication.   It's odd that the message doesn't re-appear 
>> upon reboot.  We need to determine if there is a password field or some 
>> other dialog that is present when this is heard before we can come up with a 
>> solution.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:34, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Sometimes I get this message after booting El Capitan. I have to force a 
>> shut down as I cannot access the menu bar to do a restart and if I try to 
>> invoke the Application Chooser, that is when I hear the above message. What 
>> causes this and can it be fixed?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
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Re: User Authentication is Required

[E.T.]

   That sounds logical. When I try to get the Windows Chooser, there 
are no windows. This happens rarely so its hard to figure out what is 
behind it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/17/2016 11:19 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

This usually happens because the OS or some app is trying to make changes that 
require authentication.   It's odd that the message doesn't re-appear upon 
reboot.  We need to determine if there is a password field or some other dialog 
that is present when this is heard before we can come up with a solution.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:34, E.T.  wrote:

  Sometimes I get this message after booting El Capitan. I have to force a shut 
down as I cannot access the menu bar to do a restart and if I try to invoke the 
Application Chooser, that is when I hear the above message. What causes this 
and can it be fixed?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com



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<>

Re: watch os 3 powering off

[christopher hallsworth]

Don’t think so but could be wrong and no not trying it for the hell of it 
.
> On 15 Sep 2016, at 21:57, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Is the SOS feature only for the US?  I’m buying my watch series 2 tomorrow 
> and hope the watch is faster than the last Generation.  I’m going to the 
> Apple store and am going to hold my caine out to see if I can get in front of 
> the queue.
>> On 14 Sep 2016, at 16:40, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Oh boy, what could possibly go wrong there.:)
>> 
>> That sounds a little dicy to me.  “911, how may I help you?”  “I’m sorry I 
>> was trying to power down my watch, no really I’m fine, nobody is here, I’m 
>> just trying to reset my watch”  “Ok ok, I’ll open the door and let the 
>> officer in to check” ;)
>> 
>> As someone who has to test 911 calls for SIP phones from time to time that’s 
>> a real eye opener when you dial 911 and think you hang up before the call 
>> completes and 5 minutes later police are pulling up in your parking lot 
>> looking for the guy calling 911. haha
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Sarai, you press it long enough to invoke the power off screen, but not 
>>> so long that it invokes the SOS function.
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org
>>> 
 On 15/09/2016, at 3:07 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli  
 wrote:
 
 Hi:
 I know the long press of friends button use to power off the watch, and 
 now it starts SOS. How do you turn off the watch now?
 Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
 
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> 
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by 

Re: 100+ iOS 10 Hidden / Secret Features For iPhone And iPad [

[Donna Goodin]

Plus one to that!
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> I'd do that if it actually removed the files from the phone. That's really 
> what I'm after. I figure if you're not using it it should disappear. :) Seems 
> silly to just remove icons while wasting the storage. Presumably you didn't 
> want to use the storage either.
> 
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Re: 100+ iOS 10 Hidden / Secret Features For iPhone And iPad [

[Blee Blat]

I'd do that if it actually removed the files from the phone. That's really what 
I'm after. I figure if you're not using it it should disappear. :) Seems silly 
to just remove icons while wasting the storage. Presumably you didn't want to 
use the storage either.

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Re: Please Confirm a VoiceOver Bug in Native iOS 10 Mail App Regarding Threaded View

[Alex Hall]

I think they both work the same way. The difference is that focus lands on the 
oldest message when you open a thread, so you have to swipe up, whereas it 
lands on the newest when you expand, so you have to swipe right to go down. 
That is, the order seems the same, but your position and resulting direction of 
travel are reversed between the two modes.
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 13:48, Robert Hill  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark, 
> 
> The thing that puzzles me is the different behaviors between opening the 
> thread, where the message order is from oldest to newest, and where you 
> expand the thread, and the messages appear newest to oldest.  Just curious 
> about why that works that way. 
> 
> Bob 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 12:27 PM, M. Taylor  > wrote:
> 
>> Hello Bob,
>> 
>> Thank you for the confirmation and, most of all, for the workaround.  It has 
>> really saved the day, for me.
>> 
>> I will submit a bug report via Apple's Bug Reporter portal, complete with 
>> your workaround.
>> 
>> Thanks again.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Robert Hill
>> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 1:07 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: Please Confirm a VoiceOver Bug in Native iOS 10 Mail App 
>> Regarding Threaded View
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> Yes, I can confirm this bug.
>> I had posted to the v-phone list with this issue earlier this week.
>> 
>> A work-around I found is to double tap on the thread to open it, not go to 
>> the actions and expand the thread.
>> When I double tap to open the thread, then when I flick down with one 
>> finger, the oldest message in the thread is at the top as I would expect.
>> Then what I do is go through the actions, find the message item, then I can 
>> flick down through the messages, and read them by double tapping them,.
>> 
>> Bob Hill
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:36 AM, M. Taylor >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> There have been so many posts sent lately that I have lost track so 
>>> please indulge me in asking for confirmation of a very annoying bug in 
>>> the native iOS 10 Mail app, regarding the threaded view.
>>> 
>>> Here are my major settings for Mail.  
>>> 
>>> Preview, None.
>>> Organize by Thread, On.
>>> Most Recent Message on Top, Off.
>>> Complete Thread, Off.
>>> 
>>> Here are the steps I take to read threads:
>>> 
>>> 1.
>>> Open the Mail app.
>>> 
>>> 2.
>>> Place focus on a collapsed thread.
>>> 
>>> 3.
>>> Select Expand Thread via the VoiceOver Rotor.  At this point, the 
>>> thread expands downward.
>>> 
>>> 4.
>>> Now, I single-finger swipe to the right in order to move to the first 
>>> message listed below the subject line of the thread and, as is 
>>> expected, the text of the message is read, out by VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that, regardless of the status of the, "Most Recent 
>>> Message on Top", toggle, the first message just below the thread's 
>>> subject line is always the most recent post to the thread.  As a 
>>> consequence, if I want to read the original post to a thread, I have 
>>> to swipe all the way down to the bottom of the list area and reverse swipe 
>>> back up.
>>> 
>>> Does this make sense and are any of you encountering this issue?  
>>> 
>>> Again, thank you for your indulgence on this.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation

[christopher hallsworth]

I have the sports watch and have been told it’s very snazzy indeed. So you 
don’t need to pay an arm and a leg to get a snazzy watch.
> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:41, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I am not against expensive watches by any means, I have a Patek that’s north 
> of 200 grand US but it’s a very limited addition and has 20 karats of 
> diamonds so you feel like you got something.  17 grand for a little gold 
> that’s only worth $1330 per ounce round numbers seems excessive.  Give me the 
> steel option for under $1000 and I’m happy it does the exact same thing and 
> is probably more durable.
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:29 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah the gold watch here in nz was 32 K nz dollars. Give or take!
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 12:59 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>>  
>> They over charge for the gold model.  I looked at one and it was 17 grand or 
>> $17,000 US.  Put some diamonds on there and maybe although they add up quick.
>>  
>>  
>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>  
>> And apple have dropped the gold version of their watch because it wasn’t 
>> selling.
>>  
>> Therefore they introduced the ceramic model.
>>  
>> From: 
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 4:11 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>>  
>> I was torn between silver which matches the platinum watch I have or gold 
>> which matches another watch I have. The only problem is when I made that 
>> decision I realized that I have only been wearing steel apple watches since 
>> they came out so it doesn’t matter any more.:)  I see why Rolex’s sales are 
>> down 30% this year and they had to buy back their inventory from a lot of 
>> distributors.  Everyone is wearing Fit Bit or apple watches now.  The trendy 
>> and high end markets are no longer high end swiss watches made with rare 
>> elements, it’s high tech.  For people wondering if the Apple Watch was a 
>> success or if it’s a game changer, Ask Rolex, Patek, Tag or any of them how 
>> it’s going?  :)  I have one watch that lost $40,000 in value over the last 
>> year on the resale market.  I’m sure it will recover but isn’t it funny how 
>> quietly that happened.  Sort of like a certain phone started to catch on 9 
>> years ago when Blackberry was king.
>>  
>> Apple has a way of creating these trends and shocking different markets.  
>> I’m not sure how much is artificially created by limiting preproduction and 
>> creating a pent up demand or if they really do get swamped with orders but 
>> what ever, it works, stocks at a 10 month high now heading towards all time 
>> high.
>>  
>> Go Mr. Cook!
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>  
>> My shipping estimate from T mobile is anywhere from September 26 through 
>> October 10. I would've been happy with space gray, but they got rid of it, 
>> so I went for Matt black. Obviously, since I can't see, I don't care about 
>> color. But sighted friends tell me that the matblack will show the fewest 
>> fingerprints and dirt. Works for me.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Mary, you had to be one of the cool kids and get the black model.:)
>>  
>> I heard it’s back ordered until October, true?
>>  
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 10:54 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>  
>> Oh good. Looking forward to it. Even though my phone is a few weeks away.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone, following on from our wrap of last week's Apple event, this 
>> week's episode of The Blind Side Podcast features a comprehensive unboxing, 
>> setting up, and then exploration of the new iPhone 7 Plus.
>> If you'd like to take a listen, subscribe to The Blind Side Podcast in any 
>> good podcatcher, or you can hear it on Sound Cloud via this URL.
>> https://soundcloud.com/theblindsidepodcast/episode6
>> Hope you find it interesting.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org
>>  
>>  
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Re: Apple TV

[christopher hallsworth]

Oh, is this new in tvOS 10?
> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:41, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> It shows up under about as well I believe.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 2:27 AM, christopher hallsworth 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> To check the battery level go to settings>remotes and devices.
>>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 01:37, Brandon A. Olivares  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry for the vague subject. I have a few questions, as I just got the 
>>> Apple TV 4th generation.
>>> 
>>> First, how do you check the battery level of the remote? Not finding a way 
>>> so far.
>>> 
>>> Second, in Netflix, the audio doesn’t seem to be so loud. Is it because of 
>>> Voiceover? Even when I have the volume up 100%, Voiceover is very loud, but 
>>> the audio is only moderately loud. Any idea why?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brandon
>>> 
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Re: User Authentication is Required

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

This usually happens because the OS or some app is trying to make changes that 
require authentication.   It's odd that the message doesn't re-appear upon 
reboot.  We need to determine if there is a password field or some other dialog 
that is present when this is heard before we can come up with a solution.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:34, E.T.  wrote:

  Sometimes I get this message after booting El Capitan. I have to force a shut 
down as I cannot access the menu bar to do a restart and if I try to invoke the 
Application Chooser, that is when I hear the above message. What causes this 
and can it be fixed?

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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Re: 100+ iOS 10 Hidden / Secret Features For iPhone And iPad [

[Kevin Chao]

My favorite feature is the ability to remove stock Apple apps.

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:36 PM Anders Holmberg 
wrote:

> Hi!
> I have a bit of a problem to hear him on my iphone.
> I think he must be stuck in my phone because he sounds a bit muffled.
> /A
> > On 15 Sep 2016, at 02:58, Blee Blat  wrote:
> >
> > I like Fred. It's very fast and responsive. It's just quieter than all
> the other phone sounds. But this is true in the Mac as well. Not sure why
> they have all these really human sounding voices. I'll use it for a bit and
> see how it goes. All the voices other than Fred and Alex are distorted if
> voiceover's rotor volume is at 100%. That seems rather odd. I guess that's
> a bug they still haven't fixed.  That doesn't occur on the Mac just the
> phone so it's weird.
> >
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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Donna Goodin]

thanks for the tip, Devin.
Take care,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 11:16 AM, d.pra...@me.com wrote:
> 
> You may have to fiddle with the orientation. There’s a good guide on Applevis 
> about it, but put your phone in landscape, flat, then put the phone so that 
> it’s on one side, and see if it says “home button to the right” or however 
> you have it. If not, turn it to the other side. When it has the home button 
> how you want it, put it back down flat, swipe up with three fingers to lock 
> it’s orientation, and it should be good.
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> Devin Prater
>  
> From: Blee Blat 
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:31 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?
>  
> Well,  the whole thing feels a little weird actually since you don't  know 
> when you have brailled an actual character as it were. It's probably 
> something that we're not getting that is fairly simple since coordination and 
> hand strength isn't an issue here. It'd be neat to make it work though, 
> because it could be a lot quicker than the default onscreen keyboard for the 
> times when the bluetooth one isn't handy. It's probably like dictation in 
> that it's some sort of art.
>  
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Re: Please Confirm a VoiceOver Bug in Native iOS 10 Mail App Regarding Threaded View

[Robert Hill]

Hi Mark, 

The thing that puzzles me is the different behaviors between opening the 
thread, where the message order is from oldest to newest, and where you expand 
the thread, and the messages appear newest to oldest.  Just curious about why 
that works that way. 

Bob 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 12:27 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Bob,
> 
> Thank you for the confirmation and, most of all, for the workaround.  It has 
> really saved the day, for me.
> 
> I will submit a bug report via Apple's Bug Reporter portal, complete with 
> your workaround.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Hill
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 1:07 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Please Confirm a VoiceOver Bug in Native iOS 10 Mail App 
> Regarding Threaded View
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Yes, I can confirm this bug.
> I had posted to the v-phone list with this issue earlier this week.
> 
> A work-around I found is to double tap on the thread to open it, not go to 
> the actions and expand the thread.
> When I double tap to open the thread, then when I flick down with one finger, 
> the oldest message in the thread is at the top as I would expect.
> Then what I do is go through the actions, find the message item, then I can 
> flick down through the messages, and read them by double tapping them,.
> 
> Bob Hill
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:36 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> There have been so many posts sent lately that I have lost track so 
>> please indulge me in asking for confirmation of a very annoying bug in 
>> the native iOS 10 Mail app, regarding the threaded view.
>> 
>> Here are my major settings for Mail.  
>> 
>> Preview, None.
>> Organize by Thread, On.
>> Most Recent Message on Top, Off.
>> Complete Thread, Off.
>> 
>> Here are the steps I take to read threads:
>> 
>> 1.
>> Open the Mail app.
>> 
>> 2.
>> Place focus on a collapsed thread.
>> 
>> 3.
>> Select Expand Thread via the VoiceOver Rotor.  At this point, the 
>> thread expands downward.
>> 
>> 4.
>> Now, I single-finger swipe to the right in order to move to the first 
>> message listed below the subject line of the thread and, as is 
>> expected, the text of the message is read, out by VoiceOver.
>> 
>> The problem is that, regardless of the status of the, "Most Recent 
>> Message on Top", toggle, the first message just below the thread's 
>> subject line is always the most recent post to the thread.  As a 
>> consequence, if I want to read the original post to a thread, I have 
>> to swipe all the way down to the bottom of the list area and reverse swipe 
>> back up.
>> 
>> Does this make sense and are any of you encountering this issue?  
>> 
>> Again, thank you for your indulgence on this.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
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User Authentication is Required

[E.T.]

   Sometimes I get this message after booting El Capitan. I have to 
force a shut down as I cannot access the menu bar to do a restart and if 
I try to invoke the Application Chooser, that is when I hear the above 
message. What causes this and can it be fixed?


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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<>

RE: Please Confirm a VoiceOver Bug in Native iOS 10 Mail App Regarding Threaded View

[M. Taylor]

Hello Bob,

Thank you for the confirmation and, most of all, for the workaround.  It has 
really saved the day, for me.

I will submit a bug report via Apple's Bug Reporter portal, complete with your 
workaround.

Thanks again.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Robert Hill
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 1:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please Confirm a VoiceOver Bug in Native iOS 10 Mail App Regarding 
Threaded View

Hi Mark,

Yes, I can confirm this bug.
I had posted to the v-phone list with this issue earlier this week.

A work-around I found is to double tap on the thread to open it, not go to the 
actions and expand the thread.
When I double tap to open the thread, then when I flick down with one finger, 
the oldest message in the thread is at the top as I would expect.
Then what I do is go through the actions, find the message item, then I can 
flick down through the messages, and read them by double tapping them,.

Bob Hill

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:36 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> There have been so many posts sent lately that I have lost track so 
> please indulge me in asking for confirmation of a very annoying bug in 
> the native iOS 10 Mail app, regarding the threaded view.
> 
> Here are my major settings for Mail.  
> 
> Preview, None.
> Organize by Thread, On.
> Most Recent Message on Top, Off.
> Complete Thread, Off.
> 
> Here are the steps I take to read threads:
> 
> 1.
> Open the Mail app.
> 
> 2.
> Place focus on a collapsed thread.
> 
> 3.
> Select Expand Thread via the VoiceOver Rotor.  At this point, the 
> thread expands downward.
> 
> 4.
> Now, I single-finger swipe to the right in order to move to the first 
> message listed below the subject line of the thread and, as is 
> expected, the text of the message is read, out by VoiceOver.
> 
> The problem is that, regardless of the status of the, "Most Recent 
> Message on Top", toggle, the first message just below the thread's 
> subject line is always the most recent post to the thread.  As a 
> consequence, if I want to read the original post to a thread, I have 
> to swipe all the way down to the bottom of the list area and reverse swipe 
> back up.
> 
> Does this make sense and are any of you encountering this issue?  
> 
> Again, thank you for your indulgence on this.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
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You 

RE: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[d . prater]

No, it actually wakes up the phone. Speaking the time is the result of that.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Devin Prater

From: Jonathan Cohn

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RE: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[d . prater]

You may have to fiddle with the orientation. There’s a good guide on Applevis 
about it, but put your phone in landscape, flat, then put the phone so that 
it’s on one side, and see if it says “home button to the right” or however you 
have it. If not, turn it to the other side. When it has the home button how you 
want it, put it back down flat, swipe up with three fingers to lock it’s 
orientation, and it should be good.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Devin Prater

From: Blee Blat

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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Donna Goodin]

I think the thing where you don't get character feed back has changed.  At 
least, I got it when I was messing around with it.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> Well,  the whole thing feels a little weird actually since you don't  know 
> when you have brailled an actual character as it were. It's probably 
> something that we're not getting that is fairly simple since coordination and 
> hand strength isn't an issue here. It'd be neat to make it work though, 
> because it could be a lot quicker than the default onscreen keyboard for the 
> times when the bluetooth one isn't handy. It's probably like dictation in 
> that it's some sort of art.
> 
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Re: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Donna Goodin]

Excellent!  Thanks!
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Aleeha Dudley  
> wrote:
> 
> You can turn that off by going into display and brightness settings, and 
> turning off raise to wake. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
>> Interesting.  I just assumed it was the phone. I kind of like it, but 
>> wouldn't mind a little less. :)
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna, I have a 6S plus and the same thing happens. It has to be related to 
>>> iOS 10. Perhaps there is a setting where that can be changed. I percent 
>>> like it, because when I wake up, and I did just grab the phone and hear the 
>>> time.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, 
 it seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity 
 of the phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Blee Blat]

Well,  the whole thing feels a little weird actually since you don't  know when 
you have brailled an actual character as it were. It's probably something that 
we're not getting that is fairly simple since coordination and hand strength 
isn't an issue here. It'd be neat to make it work though, because it could be a 
lot quicker than the default onscreen keyboard for the times when the bluetooth 
one isn't handy. It's probably like dictation in that it's some sort of art.

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Re: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Jonathan Cohn]

Is speaking the time the only functionality of Raise to wake?

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 11:07 AM Aleeha Dudley 
wrote:

> You can turn that off by going into display and brightness settings, and
> turning off raise to wake.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>
> Interesting.  I just assumed it was the phone. I kind of like it, but
> wouldn't mind a little less. :)
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>
> Donna, I have a 6S plus and the same thing happens. It has to be related
> to iOS 10. Perhaps there is a setting where that can be changed. I percent
> like it, because when I wake up, and I did just grab the phone and hear the
> time.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>
> Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked,
> it seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity of
> the phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
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Re: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Aleeha Dudley]

You can turn that off by going into display and brightness settings, and 
turning off raise to wake. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  I just assumed it was the phone. I kind of like it, but 
> wouldn't mind a little less. :)
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna, I have a 6S plus and the same thing happens. It has to be related to 
>> iOS 10. Perhaps there is a setting where that can be changed. I percent like 
>> it, because when I wake up, and I did just grab the phone and hear the time.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, 
>>> it seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity of 
>>> the phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

People who would write with a stylus would write backwards.  I find that 
disorienting.  What really amazed me was when I went to India many years ago to 
stay there for six months at a blind school I used a Perkins Brailler to 
transcribe for them but everyone said to me that they did not know how to use a 
perkins.  The speed of a stylus for them was amazing.  I know the world has 
moved on as that was 36 years ago.  Can you all imagine that, how life has 
flown by.  I bet blind people in India are proficient enough to use an I phone 
and computer, those who are privileged enough to have gone to school as there 
are probably many blind people still begging from the poor villages in poor 
areas.
> On 17 Sep 2016, at 15:59, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Well, my second attempt was a little better, but it's still slow.  I now 
> understand why some people want to reverse the dots, it feels like all the 
> letters are backwards, even though you're using the same fingers you would 
> use on a keyboard.  For me that's kind of disorienting.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Blee Blat  wrote:
>> 
>> I wonder the same thing. I gave up on braille input and dictation and just 
>> use a bluetooth keyboard if I really need to type something longer on the 
>> phone.
>> 
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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Donna Goodin]

Kawal, I got best results from Screen Away mode, for whatever that's worth.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:37 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I have now listened to the podcast but I can’t seem to put my fingers in the 
> right place to get dots one two and three etc to do the combinations.  I want 
> to know if you can do the chords as if you were in Duxbury or using a Braille 
> machine so for instance I could do the th sign and once I did a space, this 
> would be written.  I try to turn my phone either portrait or landscape and 
> it’s not working.  I know I can’t walk in a straight line but some of you 
> know I’ve used a touch screen since mobile speak as Scott was saying so what 
> am I doing wrong can someone tell me please?  Alex’s podcast was good too.
>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:58, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>> You're welcome!  I never got that proficient at it, but you have inspired me 
>> to play around with it again.  :)
>> 
>> I am well, hope you are, too.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:52 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks so much Donna.  Hope you are well.
 On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:40, Donna Goodin > wrote:
 
 Hi Kawal,
 
 Here you go:
 http://www.applevis.com/guides/braille-ios-voiceover/guide-braille-screen-input-ios
  
 
  
 Have fun,
 Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  > wrote:
> 
> Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
> phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
> podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast 
> on Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same 
> place as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do 
> all the six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android 
> have this method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a 
> long time ago, didn’t like the voices.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Donna Goodin]

Well, my second attempt was a little better, but it's still slow.  I now 
understand why some people want to reverse the dots, it feels like all the 
letters are backwards, even though you're using the same fingers you would use 
on a keyboard.  For me that's kind of disorienting.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> I wonder the same thing. I gave up on braille input and dictation and just 
> use a bluetooth keyboard if I really need to type something longer on the 
> phone.
> 
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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I use my Focus 14 if I want to type something long or dictation if I’m in a 
private place.  But if anyone has a method of doing braille please share with 
us as I can’t do it.  If I try and do dots 1 and 3 to do C it comes out as 
colon and if I try and find an I as I make the shape of an I in braille it 
comes out as an exclamation mark.  I have UEB on and contracted braille and it 
doesn’t matter how I have the phone.

I gave up in 2008 when it came out as I couldn’t do it and I remember telling 
you all that my fingers ached so much if I held the phone to my chest and 
typed.  I can’t hold the phone to my chest and do this a flat surface would be 
needed.  But like I said it’s all wrong right now.  Why can Jonathan do it so 
fast although I know he’s practised but if it’s easy for one why not for us who 
can’t do this.  I know we are all different but we must be missing something 
simple.

Kawal.
> On 17 Sep 2016, at 15:32, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> I wonder the same thing. I gave up on braille input and dictation and just 
> use a bluetooth keyboard if I really need to type something longer on the 
> phone.
> 
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Re: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Donna Goodin]

Interesting.  I just assumed it was the phone. I kind of like it, but wouldn't 
mind a little less. :)
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Donna, I have a 6S plus and the same thing happens. It has to be related to 
> iOS 10. Perhaps there is a setting where that can be changed. I percent like 
> it, because when I wake up, and I did just grab the phone and hear the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
>> Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, it 
>> seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity of the 
>> phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Please Confirm a VoiceOver Bug in Native iOS 10 Mail App Regarding Threaded View

[Arnold Schmidt]

I can confirm your findings, but I don't know that I would consider it to be a 
bug. When you expand the thread, it is as it was in the old mail app. It always 
put the newest message first. In the new app, when I want to read a thread, I 
don't expand it first. I tap the collapsed thread, it opens, usually, with the 
oldest message at the top. I do a two-finger swipe down to read it, and when it 
finishes reading that message, I do a one-finger swipe down, it goes to the 
next message and reads it. The only time I expand a thread is when I want to 
delete an individual message, as opposed to deleting the entire thread, which, 
unfortunately, seems to be the only deleting method from within the thread. 

Arnold Schmidt 
 

Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone

On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:21 AM, Helga Schreiber  
wrote:

hi Mark. Guess I am having the same problem you're having is :-)

  Helga Schreiber 
Group Moderator  
 
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believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 10

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:40 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> This is the behaviour in MacMail, if I am understanding you correctly.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17/09/2016, at 20:06, Robert Hill  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> Yes, I can confirm this bug.
>> I had posted to the v-phone list with this issue earlier this week.
>> 
>> A work-around I found is to double tap on the thread to open it, not go to 
>> the actions and expand the thread.
>> When I double tap to open the thread, then when I flick down with one 
>> finger, the oldest message in the thread is at the top as I would expect.
>> Then what I do is go through the actions, find the message item, then I can 
>> flick down through the messages, and read them by double tapping them,.
>> 
>> Bob Hill
>> 
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 3:36 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> There have been so many posts sent lately that I have lost track so please
>>> indulge me in asking for confirmation of a very annoying bug in the native
>>> iOS 10 Mail app, regarding the threaded view.
>>> 
>>> Here are my major settings for Mail.  
>>> 
>>> Preview, None.
>>> Organize by Thread, On.
>>> Most Recent Message on Top, Off.
>>> Complete Thread, Off.
>>> 
>>> Here are the steps I take to read threads:
>>> 
>>> 1.
>>> Open the Mail app.
>>> 
>>> 2.
>>> Place focus on a collapsed thread.
>>> 
>>> 3.
>>> Select Expand Thread via the VoiceOver Rotor.  At this point, the thread
>>> expands downward.  
>>> 
>>> 4.
>>> Now, I single-finger swipe to the right in order to move to the first
>>> message listed below the subject line of the thread and, as is expected, the
>>> text of the message is read, out by VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that, regardless of the status of the, "Most Recent Message
>>> on Top", toggle, the first message just below the thread's subject line is
>>> always the most recent post to the thread.  As a consequence, if I want to
>>> read the original post to a thread, I have to swipe all the way down to the
>>> bottom of the list area and reverse swipe back up.  
>>> 
>>> Does this make sense and are any of you encountering this issue?  
>>> 
>>> Again, thank you for your indulgence on this.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> For more 

Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I have now listened to the podcast but I can’t seem to put my fingers in the 
right place to get dots one two and three etc to do the combinations.  I want 
to know if you can do the chords as if you were in Duxbury or using a Braille 
machine so for instance I could do the th sign and once I did a space, this 
would be written.  I try to turn my phone either portrait or landscape and it’s 
not working.  I know I can’t walk in a straight line but some of you know I’ve 
used a touch screen since mobile speak as Scott was saying so what am I doing 
wrong can someone tell me please?  Alex’s podcast was good too.
> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:58, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> You're welcome!  I never got that proficient at it, but you have inspired me 
> to play around with it again.  :)
> 
> I am well, hope you are, too.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:52 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks so much Donna.  Hope you are well.
>>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:40, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kawal,
>>> 
>>> Here you go:
>>> http://www.applevis.com/guides/braille-ios-voiceover/guide-braille-screen-input-ios
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Have fun,
>>> Donna
 On Sep 17, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu > wrote:
 
 Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
 phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
 podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast 
 on Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same 
 place as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do 
 all the six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have 
 this method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long 
 time ago, didn’t like the voices.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Kawal.
 I'm fundraising for RNIB.
 
 Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
 Giving page. 
 
 To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
 http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
  where you can also 
 sponsor me online.
 
 
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>>> 
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Re: to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Blee Blat]

I wonder the same thing. I gave up on braille input and dictation and just use 
a bluetooth keyboard if I really need to type something longer on the phone.

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Re: How are you guys liking the new version of ITunes?

[Blee Blat]

Yup. They really should do that because I only ever use the music portion. I'd 
use it for podcasts, except downcast does that better. They should have file 
management and syncing in another app as well. The only reason I bother with 
iTunes is to sync or update the phone and listen to music. It should look like 
iOS where they have separate apps for everything. .

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Re: iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Les Kriegler]

Donna, I have a 6S plus and the same thing happens. It has to be related to iOS 
10. Perhaps there is a setting where that can be changed. I percent like it, 
because when I wake up, and I did just grab the phone and hear the time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 10:23 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, it 
> seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity of the 
> phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
> Cheers,
> Donna
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to those of you who use braille input, how on earth do you do it?

[Donna Goodin]

So, seeing Kawal's post, I decided to give this another go.  Nothing I do seems 
to work.  the dots all seem to be in the wrong places, and I can't get a dot 2 
to save my soul.  When I type an O it comes out as a U.  When I type a period, 
it comes out as WH (dots 1-5-6.  Also, I'd be curious to know if you use screen 
away or tabletop mode.  Each seems to bring it's own problems, but I'd love to 
know if there's one people have found to work better.
Cheers,
Donna

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iPhone 7 very chatty?

[Donna Goodin]

Is anyone else noticing that their iPhone 7 is very chatty?  When locked, it 
seems that all I have to do is have my hand somewhere in the vicinity of the 
phone and it pipes up and speaks the time.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: How are you guys liking the new version of ITunes?

[matthew dyer]

Hi,


So far I can say that things work well here.  I really wish apple would 
break everything up into smaller apps though as it would make things 
alot easyer.  Just my thougghts.  Oh yes sound is better here in the 
latest vesion.  I use wirless headphiones and they work just find.



Matthew




On 09/16/2016 10:30 PM, Blee Blat wrote:

It's more clunky in some ways but the apple music layout seems a bit saner. 
Closer to iOS. Slight sound quality improvement as well. Need to find some 
actually decent headphones that aren't earbuds heh Do those exist? Getting a 
lot of  calls and music lately. iTunes wifi sync seems a bit more reliable as 
well.



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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Donna Goodin]

You're welcome!  I never got that proficient at it, but you have inspired me to 
play around with it again.  :)

I am well, hope you are, too.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:52 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Thanks so much Donna.  Hope you are well.
>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:40, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kawal,
>> 
>> Here you go:
>> http://www.applevis.com/guides/braille-ios-voiceover/guide-braille-screen-input-ios
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> Have fun,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
>>> phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
>>> podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on 
>>> Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place 
>>> as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the 
>>> six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this 
>>> method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time 
>>> ago, didn’t like the voices.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>>> 
>>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
>>> Giving page. 
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Re: Digital touch in Messages?

[Donna Goodin]

I don't see well enough to use it either, but it does sound cool.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> The sketching option is kind of interesting as well.  Not for me totally 
> blind but I like the concept.
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> I knew about the heartbeat of course, from Apple presentation some years 
>> back.  But I didn't know about the rest of it.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:24 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna, on the watch you can reach out and tap someone.  You can even do a 
>>> little ditty and it taps out on the target’s wrist.  Using the same 
>>> technology you can send your heart beat to a far end person as well.  It 
>>> taps on your wrist according to the sources heart rate.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:35 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I've noticed that in IOS 10 Messages, when composing a message, there is 
 now something called digital touch.  Anyone know what that is?
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Thanks so much Donna.  Hope you are well.
> On 17 Sep 2016, at 14:40, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kawal,
> 
> Here you go:
> http://www.applevis.com/guides/braille-ios-voiceover/guide-braille-screen-input-ios
>  
> 
>  
> Have fun,
> Donna
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
>> phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
>> podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on 
>> Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place 
>> as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the 
>> six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this 
>> method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time 
>> ago, didn’t like the voices.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>> 
>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
>> Giving page. 
>> 
>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
>> http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>>  where you can also 
>> sponsor me online.
>> 
>> 
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Re: App store is in the process now of being fixed: was: Re: Search tab in iOS app store seems totally busted!

[Erik Burggraaf]

Not to be quarilous,  but it seems to me that a similar debacle with the 
App Store took place in an early version of iPhone / iOS.  I also seem to 
recall something about an iPhone being released under Steve Jobs with a 
hardware defect which would cause all Wireless signals to drop if the phone 
was held a certain way. this resulted in people hanging up their calls 
accidentally by touching the wrong part of their phone. so it seems to me 
that jobs wasn't perfect either. just saying...


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On September 17, 2016 7:11:26 AM Ray Foret jr  wrote:

Yep, the fix I posted last night, (work around honestly) feels very much 
hit and miss.  I don’t know what Apple was thinking, but, in a way , it 
sort of reminds me of the maps debacle when they just beta tested it with 
folks in Cupertino and then just naively thought it would work everywhere 
and Cook wound up with egg all over his face.  Steve Jobs would never ever 
ever have permitted this.  Jobs Cook is NOT.



Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in


Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

On Sep 16, 2016, at 10:10 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


I just spoke to Apple Accessibility, they finally called back.  Apparently, 
it took them so long, as they were really really looking into it.  
Apparently, they said they indeed are having major major major issues, with 
the app store.


This can be confirmed if you look at the forums on

http://discussions.apple.com 

For what it's worth, I just tried a second ago on my 6S, and the old 
interface is totally totally back and is working  flawlessly.  So, hold in 
there guys.  I think they're aware that there new approach didn't work 
after all.  Thank god they have image rollbacks.  The guy I spoke with, 
actually ironically just happened to be an engineer himself as well as an 
accessibility senior advisor.  He said he couldn't really go into much due 
to propriatary confidentiality sake, but, he said they are aware of it, and 
they are aware it didn't work at all.  It's just a matter of them rolling 
things back.  They're doing it apparently, he said in phases though, so if 
your devices still in the app store seem busted, give it about a day or so 
and it should be back to how we know it as.


Chris.

---
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JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com 
Phone: (704) 256-8010.

- Original Message -
From: Robin 
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Search tab in iOS app store seems totally busted!

Apple better FixThis because it has a Wide Variety of iPhones on the 
Market, which aren't capable of using the ForceTouch 3D Touch Feature, 
which is Exclusive to the iPhone6S,iPhone6S+,iPhone7+,

But
the following aren't EquippedWith 3DTouch ForceTouch, I'm Referrin'To 
iPhone5,iPhone5C,iPhone5S,iPhone6+,iPhone6,iPhone6S,iPhone6S+,

And
All of these iPhones are capable of & permitted to UpdateTo Apple's iOS10
JustSayin'
At 07:29 PM 9/16/2016, you wrote:
So what the hell are people gonna do who have iPod touches, or phones which 
don't support 3D touch?


Secondly, you mention 3D touch, OK? So, how're we supposed to do this.
---
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- Original Message -
From: Ray Foret jr 
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Search tab in iOS app store seems totally busted!

Just tried it myself on my iPhone 6+.  It’s a mess alright.  I did a 
search for “grand clock†and try though I might, I could not make the 
results come up except by double tapping and holding on the search box.  
Then, it only showed me one result that it says is from the app store.  
Then, I double tapped on the “view†button just off to the right of it.  
Y’all, from the experience I had just now, it would appear that Apple has 
gone and done two things.


1.  Force touch seems to be necessary to get at the results listings.  I 
say this due to the fact that my iPhone 6+ does not have force touch and 
therefore it is impossible for me to interact with it.


2.  Since the result from the app store bounced over to and opened iTunes, 
I am forced to come to the conclution that Aple has changed the UI so that 
the search in the app store no longer is independant of iTunes but is 
somehow intigrated with it.  Most anoying seems to be that Apple did this 
without bothering to tell us they were doing it nor offered 

Re: Apple TV

[Scott Granados]

It shows up under about as well I believe.


> On Sep 17, 2016, at 2:27 AM, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> To check the battery level go to settings>remotes and devices.
>> On 17 Sep 2016, at 01:37, Brandon A. Olivares  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry for the vague subject. I have a few questions, as I just got the Apple 
>> TV 4th generation.
>> 
>> First, how do you check the battery level of the remote? Not finding a way 
>> so far.
>> 
>> Second, in Netflix, the audio doesn’t seem to be so loud. Is it because of 
>> Voiceover? Even when I have the volume up 100%, Voiceover is very loud, but 
>> the audio is only moderately loud. Any idea why?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brandon
>> 
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Re: Digital touch in Messages?

[Scott Granados]

The sketching option is kind of interesting as well.  Not for me totally blind 
but I like the concept.

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> I knew about the heartbeat of course, from Apple presentation some years 
> back.  But I didn't know about the rest of it.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:24 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna, on the watch you can reach out and tap someone.  You can even do a 
>> little ditty and it taps out on the target’s wrist.  Using the same 
>> technology you can send your heart beat to a far end person as well.  It 
>> taps on your wrist according to the sources heart rate.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:35 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I've noticed that in IOS 10 Messages, when composing a message, there is 
>>> now something called digital touch.  Anyone know what that is?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Kawal,

Here you go:
http://www.applevis.com/guides/braille-ios-voiceover/guide-braille-screen-input-ios
 
Have fun,
Donna
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
> phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s podcast 
> today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on Braille 
> output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place as I don’t 
> know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the six finger 
> combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this method?  Just 
> curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time ago, didn’t like 
> the voices.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
> Giving page. 
> 
> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
> http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>  where you can also 
> sponsor me online.
> 
> 
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Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation

[Scott Granados]

I am not against expensive watches by any means, I have a Patek that’s north of 
200 grand US but it’s a very limited addition and has 20 karats of diamonds so 
you feel like you got something.  17 grand for a little gold that’s only worth 
$1330 per ounce round numbers seems excessive.  Give me the steel option for 
under $1000 and I’m happy it does the exact same thing and is probably more 
durable.

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:29 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Yeah the gold watch here in nz was 32 K nz dollars. Give or take!
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 12:59 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>  
> They over charge for the gold model.  I looked at one and it was 17 grand or 
> $17,000 US.  Put some diamonds on there and maybe although they add up quick.
>  
>  
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:21 PM, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
>  
> And apple have dropped the gold version of their watch because it wasn’t 
> selling.
>  
> Therefore they introduced the ceramic model.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2016 4:11 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation
>  
> I was torn between silver which matches the platinum watch I have or gold 
> which matches another watch I have. The only problem is when I made that 
> decision I realized that I have only been wearing steel apple watches since 
> they came out so it doesn’t matter any more.:)  I see why Rolex’s sales are 
> down 30% this year and they had to buy back their inventory from a lot of 
> distributors.  Everyone is wearing Fit Bit or apple watches now.  The trendy 
> and high end markets are no longer high end swiss watches made with rare 
> elements, it’s high tech.  For people wondering if the Apple Watch was a 
> success or if it’s a game changer, Ask Rolex, Patek, Tag or any of them how 
> it’s going?  :)  I have one watch that lost $40,000 in value over the last 
> year on the resale market.  I’m sure it will recover but isn’t it funny how 
> quietly that happened.  Sort of like a certain phone started to catch on 9 
> years ago when Blackberry was king.
>  
> Apple has a way of creating these trends and shocking different markets.  I’m 
> not sure how much is artificially created by limiting preproduction and 
> creating a pent up demand or if they really do get swamped with orders but 
> what ever, it works, stocks at a 10 month high now heading towards all time 
> high.
>  
> Go Mr. Cook!
>  
>  
>  
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
>  
> My shipping estimate from T mobile is anywhere from September 26 through 
> October 10. I would've been happy with space gray, but they got rid of it, so 
> I went for Matt black. Obviously, since I can't see, I don't care about 
> color. But sighted friends tell me that the matblack will show the fewest 
> fingerprints and dirt. Works for me.
> 
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Scott Granados  > wrote:
> 
> Mary, you had to be one of the cool kids and get the black model.:)
>  
> I heard it’s back ordered until October, true?
>  
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 10:54 PM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
>  
> Oh good. Looking forward to it. Even though my phone is a few weeks away.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Jonathan Mosen  > wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, following on from our wrap of last week's Apple event, this 
> week's episode of The Blind Side Podcast features a comprehensive unboxing, 
> setting up, and then exploration of the new iPhone 7 Plus.
> If you'd like to take a listen, subscribe to The Blind Side Podcast in any 
> good podcatcher, or you can hear it on Sound Cloud via this URL.
> https://soundcloud.com/theblindsidepodcast/episode6 
> 
> Hope you find it interesting.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org 
>  
>  
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Android was Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Erik Burggraaf]

Hello, I use Android on a regular basis. there are several Braille 
keyboards for Android. the problem is that they require you to turn off 
explore by touch. explore by touch is critical for navigating your phone 
using gestures. so, I have never wanted to install one of these keyboards 
and try to make it usable.


The default Google text to speech voices are pretty terrible. this might 
lead you to believe that speech on Android is not quite as good as speech 
on iOS. in fact, speech on Android is far superior to that on iOS. the 
number of Manufacturers and the variety of voices you can actually purchase 
or download for free is far and beyond that available on iOS.  Android also 
had pronunciation dictionaries available starting with 4.0 Ice Cream 
Sandwich which are only now being introduced in iOS 10.


Braille  is another matter. yes it's nice to be able to hook up the few 
supported Braille displays; however, they are not leveraging the full power 
of Android to make Braille the wonderful experience that it could be.   
especially not compared with iOS.


Best,

Erik
.

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On September 17, 2016 8:49:22 AM Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s 
podcast today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on 
Braille output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place 
as I don’t know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the 
six finger combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this 
method?  Just curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time 
ago, didn’t like the voices.


Thanks.

Kawal.
I'm fundraising for RNIB.

Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
Giving page.


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Re: Braille input with hands on an I phone podcast?

[Alex Hall]

I don't have a link handy, but I did one a year or two ago that will still be 
relevant. You can find it on Applevis; I'd search for "mehgcap braille screen 
input" which should find you my podcast and guide. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2016, at 08:48, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Please could someone do a podcast on how to use Braille output on their I 
> phone please?  I don’t know how to use it but heard all of Jonathan’s podcast 
> today when he was unboxing his I phone 7 plus and he was so fast on Braille 
> output.  I’d like to use it but the dots are not in the same place as I don’t 
> know how to calibrate the dots and can you chord i.e. do all the six finger 
> combinations as you do on a perkins?  Does Android have this method?  Just 
> curious.  Never used Android as when I heard it a long time ago, didn’t like 
> the voices.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
> Giving page. 
> 
> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
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> me online.
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Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Donna Goodin]

That's so true, Kawal.  I think the first thing that gave me iPhone envy was 
seeing those old App store commercials, remember?  "There's an app for that!"  
:)
Cheers,
Donna 
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 7:28 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> But you all remember using mobile speak you couldn’t use many applications.  
> Mail was good and so was Skype I remember but if you wanted something that 
> mobile speak didn’t work with you were stuffed.  The only great thing I 
> really liked with Mobile speak was Braille output and Mobile GEO.  That was 
> truly brilliant, the first GP/S accessible application for a blind user to 
> experience.  I think all of you will agree who used Mobile Speak.  Now our 
> lives are changed for ever because of Apple’s commitment even though people 
> get frustrated at times as that is what it is, we don’t understand what is 
> changed so we will all take it out at some point.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 16 Sep 2016, at 12:53, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, there's a blast from the past! :)  You're dead on, Scott.  It's funny 
>> to think how revolutionary those MobileSpeak phones seemed at the time, and 
>> I would agree, it totally changed my professional and personal life.  Yet 
>> now it kind of seems like typing on an old manual typewriter.
>> 
>> I think there's a difference between something feeling intuitive once you 
>> understand it, and being intuitive to figure out.  One thing I would say 
>> about Apple products, is that I often have the experience that once I know 
>> the solution to a problem it makes perfect sense, but finding the solution 
>> isn't always easy.  Ideally, both parts of the equation should be intuitive, 
>> but I suppose that starts to get kind of subjective.  Note that I haven't 
>> upgraded, so haven't tried the Mail app yet.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Scott Granados >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know what’s interesting, I did find the touch screen very intuitive but 
>>> let me qualify that.  I was using touch screens before the apple products.  
>>> I was one of several on this list who go back to the Mobile speak days on 
>>> Pocket PC devices.  While it seems hokey today at that time that was highly 
>>> life changing stuff.  Having an accessible phone totally changed my 
>>> professional life for example being able to text with my coworkers and 
>>> receive alerts from automated devices and do more than here a random 
>>> meaningless alert with no idea what was being sent to me.
>>> In comparison to mobile speak the whole apple interface seemed 
>>> revolutionary and oddly easy to use because you actually worked with the 
>>> screen instead of tapped in the different corners in combination like a 
>>> game.  You also got visual information like screen placement and layout 
>>> that was never available before.  So my experience probably differs from 
>>> yours only because I came from a really proprietary environment from code 
>>> factory to a more mainstream approach.  Or at least different, maybe 
>>> mainstream isn’t the best way to express it.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Mary Otten > wrote:
 
 What is streamline and what is intuitive? The first time you used a touch 
 device, I daresay, you did not find it intuitive. I know I didn't. Now you 
 and I are used to using the Mail app, for instance, in a certain way. What 
 if it could be pointed out to you, as David did in his post, how to 
 efficiently use the Mail app in a different way? Why is that less 
 intuitive than what you are used to? It is change. It is not necessarily 
 less intuitive. We're iPhone Apple is in not coming out with the 
 documentation to let us know about this stuff when they release the final 
 OS. Fiddling around is for beta testers. When you release a final product 
 which is supposed to be accessible, you need to dot the eyes and cross the 
 tease, and let us know how it is different in terms of our particular 
 accessibility needs. That goes with the territory of universal design. I 
 know reading is out of fashion out with specially with the younger 
 generation. But a little bit of documentation goes a long way.
  A picture is not necessarily worth a few words, especially when you're 
 dealing with someone who can't see the freaking picture.
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe > wrote:
 
> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined 
> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, 
> namely OS.
> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The 
> iOS represents a gateway