Re: [PEDA] DXP NOT MADE FOR WINDOWS NT
I got a quote yesterday saying it runs on NT, 2k and XP only. Rene Narinder Kumar wrote: Yes It won't run at all under NT? I got a quotation for DXP from Protel it say Working with Windows 2000 and XP only * Tracking #: 46080810EF3C8F4D9861D631D1A07C77868D1170 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] AW: DXP Discussion
As I recall, 'to bag' by word means 'to put sth. in a bag'. In colloquial language this may stand for 'to snap' or 'to grab', but in different countries there may be different flavors of what it may mean. 'Abandon' makes also sense esp. if the bag is a garbage bag ;-) But I may be totally off the mark, as my native language is german... Cheers, Ralf -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Brian Sherer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Juli 2002 05:46 An: Protel EDA Forum Betreff: Re: [PEDA] DXP Discussion InterestingIn my neck of the woods (NW US), to bag something is to abandon it as useless, but without extreme prejudice Brian At 07:32 PM 7/30/02 -0700, you wrote: In the US, 'to bag' generally means the same thing. I think some places it means to 'capture' or 'get lucky' but I'm not sure where... * Tracking #: 9FB49645A36D164A94038C56928069B2BB54EA4C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP NOT MADE FOR WINDOWS NT
Thats interesting I tried it on NT and it just bombed complaining about a missing .dll Dave -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 July 2002 09:02 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP NOT MADE FOR WINDOWS NT I got a quote yesterday saying it runs on NT, 2k and XP only. Rene Narinder Kumar wrote: Yes It won't run at all under NT? I got a quotation for DXP from Protel it say Working with Windows 2000 and XP only ** ** * Tracking #: 46080810EF3C8F4D9861D631D1A07C77868D1170 * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
You should ask your Fabricator if they can do that with their cam equipment then you can approve the file. But there must be a way to merge we used to do lots of merges in the old days. Fran -Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 6:33 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers Question to smartest of smartest designers out there: Here is the delima, we have a board appox 24 x 30 ( a very large backplane) , many thousands of connections, every layer controlled impedance. The boards are used for high speed tele comminications switching and data monitoring. ( No the the tele com industry is not dead). The designs are as many as 28 layers, some approching .250 inch in thickness, a very expensive baord to design and manufacture. On the outer layers we avoid placing traces, since we embed the entire design, The outer layer are copper pours tied to gnd to reduce EMI and to maintain controlled Z on the next inner layer. The copper is poured on both the top and bottom layers. Copper pours of this size are poured last because they are time consuming. The pours can take 4 hours, and even longer if they are not right the first time. Question to any of the best out there.can we avoid a copper pour and merge a gnd layer to the top? Does anyone have a method or suggestion to merge copper to flood the top layer. Is there a quicker method? We are using 99SE on aa 1 gig cpu with 512 meg. Mike Reagan EDSI * Tracking #: C05FC4455FDD074E8E0D19C321C392CAC217810D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP Discussion
-Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] You're wrong. The NDA applies for afterwards too. The NDA covers the NDA too, I guess. The beta was a lot of tiring work, so let's forget about the beta and focus on the release. You do your purchase decision on the release and not on the beta. Not if the release is a beta. aj * Tracking #: 541D12CB1599CE4FA9E4170599E6696227A707AD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Bag it Discussion
Brian wrote InterestingIn my neck of the woods (NW US), to bag something is to abandon it as useless, but without extreme prejudice Yea that was the same meaning I have always understood. So in this case it meant abandoning Protel, which left me confused Mike Reagan * Tracking #: BD5CE9A9D23CEC48A22E3138057F29F54A05E6A7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] HTML in e-mail == naughty
You're welcome, Drew! I DO have those OE options selected (plain text only, reply in format of original message unchecked) and OE STILL doesn't obey. That's aggravating. Maybe it's time for me to switch to Mozilla. I already have at home. I don't have any use for Chinese character sets anyway. I can't read Chinese, so I certainly can't read any e-mail in Chinese character sets. And since I can't read it, I also can't write it. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Drew [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] HTML in e-mail == naughty Hello, I believe this has to do with the default encoding used by the e-mail program of the sender's original post. I have OE6 set to reply in plain text only and I have always seen the same thing as you do, up 'till just now. When I click on 'View' 'Encoding' ... for this e-mail I saw the default was set to 'Chinese Traditional (Big5)'. I changed the encoding to 'Western European (Windows)', clicked on another e-mail then clicked back to the one I changed. Lo' and behold the change stuck! While typing this, it looks like my default settings... so I closed and saved this e-mail in 'Drafts' and closed OE6. When I reopened, HOT DAMN! And the posts from Luo; Yu-Ming are also much easier to read. I have been wondering about this for quite some time. Sometimes, all I need is a swift boot to the head to figure things out. Thank you for stirring the noodles, Ivan! Cheers! Drew * Tracking #: 028E7A6CCC32624396F537EEB3CDFA13DF071BE3 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
Michael Reagan (EDSI) wrote: Peter and All If an internal ground plane has an appropriate copper pattern for the outer layers, just tell the board shop to use that artwork for both the inner layer and outer layer - just because Protel thinks the *.gtl file is the top layer, doesn't mean you _must_ use that as the top layer. (Or if one of the existing planes isn't suitable, make another one that is!) Peter have you actually done it I think this is the answer I am looking for Mike I'm not sure now if I have used a plane layer on the outside of a board, but I have used a single ground plane plot for two physicial layers in a board. As others have mentioned (and I didn't think of, at the time), a ground plane won't have any pads around the holes, so it might not be a good idea to use one on the surface of the board. * Tracking #: 2257EAB63D835E45B29F432319B4FF0452F2A00E * -- Peter Bennett TRIUMF 4004 Wesbrook Mall, Vancouver, BC, Canada GPS and NMEA info and programs: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. * Tracking #: BCF589B3A46C8E41B6E0C23A40248161F1DB2E77 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
-Original Message- From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 July 2002 17:34 To: Protel forum Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! I got one as well, Perhaps they get their leads from this list? and think that our initial reactions to DXP make us better sales targets. I notice they include 1 yr maint., but neglect to mention the on-going maint. costs (probably 15-25% of cost) will be based on the 9K figure or 23K figure. No prizes for guessing which. But it does contain a lot of features that we would like to have seen in DXP. John * Tracking #: 25E9FDE97A904D45B7B741FC6205F4C92F5D8889 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
Isn't that about $14,400 USD? If it's full versions, that's a big discount! Probably much cheaper than buying Protel 99SE (or DXP) and Specctra separately. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. * Tracking #: 9F99C2AB242EB74C8A0A5720AFFABE62032500E6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] rectangle hole?
I'm creating a connector footprint with two rectangle holes or slots for mechanical stability. How do I create rectangle holes? Tim Fifield * Tracking #: F043784119037E49B6F4845F2C828DF67ED2F5AD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
You caught my attention. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. * Tracking #: BCF589B3A46C8E41B6E0C23A40248161F1DB2E77 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?
Use a rectangular drill. :) No really, you will need to define it as a routed hole in a mechanical note. I don't know of any PCB tool that can show rectangular holes and have the drill data mean something useful. I use a drill size of 1 mil and a note indicating that a slot is routed wherever they see a drill of 1mil. Since my places can't make a 1 mil hole, this flags an error and gets them to notice my special instructions. The automatically know which way to align the slot because the pad I use is rectangular. Yeah, maybe there are a few assumptions made, but people can do that when then actually think about something. -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:26 AM To: Protel EDA Form Subject: [PEDA] rectangle hole? I'm creating a connector footprint with two rectangle holes or slots for mechanical stability. How do I create rectangle holes? Tim Fifield * Tracking #: F043784119037E49B6F4845F2C828DF67ED2F5AD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?
Re: [PEDA] Checking if Protel 2002-07-29 Digest intact.
Paul, Sorry about that, seems I rotated the first Y in the word 180 degrees by accident, when I ment to say that the archive could be found at yayoo groups ;-) JaMi - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Checking if Protel 2002-07-29 Digest intact. Paul, You can go look at the archive at Protel-Users-PEDA-Archive at hahoo groups. JaMi - Original Message - From: Paul Gaastra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: [PEDA] Checking if Protel 2002-07-29 Digest intact. Does anyone know if the Protel 2002-07-29 Digest was intact. I only received one email in the attachments. I was looking forward to reading all the comments about the new DXP. Maybe one of you antipodean or insomniac readers could tell me by a personal email whether it was sent properly because we have just moved over to Groupwise as our email program and I suspect that's the problem. Thanks __ The contents of this e-mail are privileged and/or confidential to the named recipient and are not to be used by any other person and/or organisation. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. __ * Tracking #: DEA1880247689547B418E3D2AB4BB8310D65CBD7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?
Tim, I have done this many times and here is my methodology which typically relies on the fact that I use full fab drawings for production boards. For prototypes I will usually use a similar methodology which may simply rely on readme details or a gerber output layer that showers the extents of the slot/rectangle with respect to the board and the drill hole location. I may (recently I usually do it) also include the outline of the slot/rectangle on my board outline layer. I will use a pad (shape/size) doesn't really matter unless the slot/rectangle is to be plated. If it is to be plated then the pad shape will match the slot/rectangle shape plus the minimum annular ring width. The hole will be specified as 1 mil (can't be fab'ed). I will have a note and detail in the fab drawing which references the 1 mil drill size. The detail will dimension and orient the cutout to the center of the drill. If there are more than one slot/rectangle then I will use 2mil, 3mil, 4 mil drills sequentially as needed, all with notes and details covering the requirements. For prototypes the same is true except that I may not have generated the full fab drawing yet. I will have notes in my readme and some drawing/sketch/gerber showing the detailed dimensions and/or outline of the slot/rectangle. Note: discuss with your fabricator which router bit sizes they have available. Include and allow for the radius of the most suitable router bit in your details. Typically I have found the following sizes common with most fab shops, 0.094, 0.0625, and to a lesser degree 0.040, 0.031, rarely 0.020. Sometimes depending on the size of your rectangle and the available router bits, you will end up just leaving it as a round hole anyway. There may be no significant gain in squareness by routing with a bit that is on the big side for the rectangular hole size. To make sure that it gets done as you wish, just try to imagine all of the ways that it could be screwed up and then see if your notes/details clearly eliminate those possibilities for a common person reading those notes/details. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:26 AM To: Protel EDA Form Subject: [PEDA] rectangle hole? I'm creating a connector footprint with two rectangle holes or slots for mechanical stability. How do I create rectangle holes? Tim Fifield * Tracking #: C302270D2BE07F4B83AC9E45BDDA7F5B556EA26D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
I'm happy to forward the mail to anybody that wants it. Steve. I feel a bit like a traitor. But only a little bit. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 July 2002 19:10 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer You caught my attention. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. * Tracking #: BCF589B3A46C8E41B6E0C23A40248161F1DB2E77 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
Please forward me a copy. Thanks, Steve Smith Product Engineer Staco Energy Products Co. 301 Gaddis Blvd. Dayton, OH 45403 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com -Original Message- From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:15 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer I'm happy to forward the mail to anybody that wants it. Steve. I feel a bit like a traitor. But only a little bit. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 July 2002 19:10 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer You caught my attention. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. * Tracking #: BCF589B3A46C8E41B6E0C23A40248161F1DB2E77 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?
Tim- I use a method very similar to Mr. Velander with good results (ie, no calls from the Fab CAM operators). My Fab drawing is added to the Drill Drawing Layer so as to be included with the Drill Size listing, and is included with all jobs. A few notes: 1- Explicitly call out all hole sizes used as mechanical markers as Marker hole for Slots. Slots are xxMil wide NPT (or Plated). Hole center marks center of xxMil too used to rout slot. 2- If a fairly large routing tool is to be used, be sure to locate marker holes with an offset toward the center of the desired cutout to accommodate the radius of the tool and the clearance radius at the corner. This can be calculated from the tool diameter. If space is tight, you can request that the majority of the cutout be routed with say a 100Mil tool, and specify that the corners are to be routed to a smaller specified radius using say a 20 or 30Mil finish rout. This is far faster for the fab house. 3- I draw and dimension each cutout and notch explicitly on the Drill Drawing Layer to exactly indicate the desired feature. This is good backup info when using a multiplicity of marker hole sizes, as Protel isn't the greatest for checking hole sizes by selection. Some fab CAM operators prefer to work only from the dimensional drawing info only, as it allows them great freedom in tool and path selection. 4) Don't assume the fab house can't or won't drill a 1Mil hole. I had a call from an offshore house telling me that Laser-drilling the 1, 2, and 3Mil holes would take an extra day or two! I find a good rule of thumb is to specify _everything_, with wide but fixed tolerances for don't care items. The old USSR had the right idea: Anything not Required is Forbidden! Brian * Tracking #: 8992B0379032D04B9AEBCB5F6789C839B21EE559 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?
Tim, Brian, with regard to the 1mil or other very small holes. One 'detail' that I left out, when the manufacturer reads the drill chart size or checks the symbol in the drill chart (my drill chart, not P99SE's automated one) they find a note directing them to the appropriate fab note and detail drawing, rather then the 1mil or other size listing. One could also edit your drill file to remove those tools completely but that is opening you up to human errors and the drill will not show at all in their CAM software and could be overlooked. Brian, was this manufacturer pulling your leg? I haven't heard of any PCB laser holes smaller than 3 mils before, let alone from a Chinese shop. The hole may be possible but properly plating it for electrical conductivity would be the problem. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Brian Sherer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:44 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole? Tim- I use a method very similar to Mr. Velander with good results (ie, no calls from the Fab CAM operators). My Fab drawing is added to the Drill Drawing Layer so as to be included with the Drill Size listing, and is included with all jobs. A few notes: 1- Explicitly call out all hole sizes used as mechanical markers as Marker hole for Slots. Slots are xxMil wide NPT (or Plated). Hole center marks center of xxMil too used to rout slot. 2- If a fairly large routing tool is to be used, be sure to locate marker holes with an offset toward the center of the desired cutout to accommodate the radius of the tool and the clearance radius at the corner. This can be calculated from the tool diameter. If space is tight, you can request that the majority of the cutout be routed with say a 100Mil tool, and specify that the corners are to be routed to a smaller specified radius using say a 20 or 30Mil finish rout. This is far faster for the fab house. 3- I draw and dimension each cutout and notch explicitly on the Drill Drawing Layer to exactly indicate the desired feature. This is good backup info when using a multiplicity of marker hole sizes, as Protel isn't the greatest for checking hole sizes by selection. Some fab CAM operators prefer to work only from the dimensional drawing info only, as it allows them great freedom in tool and path selection. 4) Don't assume the fab house can't or won't drill a 1Mil hole. I had a call from an offshore house telling me that Laser-drilling the 1, 2, and 3Mil holes would take an extra day or two! I find a good rule of thumb is to specify _everything_, with wide but fixed tolerances for don't care items. The old USSR had the right idea: Anything not Required is Forbidden! Brian * Tracking #: AF28B060D9DDD74E84E790F4833687001B76C65C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
hmmm, at $2K/Yr., ATS fees would pay for this in about 7 years. ---Phil BTS Isn't that about $14,400 USD? If it's full versions, that's a big discount! BTS Probably much cheaper than buying Protel 99SE (or DXP) and Specctra BTS separately. BTS Best regards, BTS Ivan Baggett BTS Bagotronix Inc. BTS website: www.bagotronix.com BTS - Original Message - BTS From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM BTS Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. BTS BTS * Tracking #: 9F99C2AB242EB74C8A0A5720AFFABE62032500E6 BTS * BTS * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
I joined. Not much on at the moment. There are very few having DXP at the moment. I wouldn't even have time at the moment. The yahoogroup is public too. Works like this one but could be quieter. We'll see. The creators are supposed to be there too. Since I don't have Win2k on my usual machines, I'll have to delay an install of DXP a bit. BTW, I was amazed to learn today that this ATS is not replacing the upgrading as we're used to but is additional and not compulsary. So this ATS appears to mean faster and better communication, hopefully. Every other company is having their own news server to support their products, a yahoogroup is the lowest entry. Rene Darryl Newberry wrote: BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I bet the real reason they are creating their own list is so THEY can filter and control the distribution. I prefer to bitch here in a public forum where the world can read about it. * Tracking #: EBCD411B31294C4CAA10DFD55CC517651BC522DE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
Just a thought, but the last time I priced a Cadence Allegro package, the stated price of $26,000US was for a ONE(1) year license. The low-ball price may be likewise for a one year license. I would get all the details before I got too excited. --Harry At 04:39 PM 7/31/02 -0400, you wrote: hmmm, at $2K/Yr., ATS fees would pay for this in about 7 years. ---Phil BTS Isn't that about $14,400 USD? If it's full versions, that's a big discount! BTS Probably much cheaper than buying Protel 99SE (or DXP) and Specctra BTS separately. BTS Best regards, BTS Ivan Baggett BTS Bagotronix Inc. BTS website: www.bagotronix.com BTS - Original Message - BTS From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM BTS Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. snip * Tracking #: A4F959DFF9F6A6498DF9D52FE838422FCE7537B8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?
Brad- The 1mil shop was located in Europe. They claimed to be doing precision fab at die level, so may have been sputtering the plating (or some other James Bond type method). Needless to say, their quote was astronomical and went directly to the circular file As the old saying goes, Be careful what you wish for... you may get it! Brian * Tracking #: 3F3F763F590F2C4DA00CD6047FA30842EA6A2AA9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
01/08/2002 21:41:41, vincent mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: autorouters suck . including specctra. they can't even route a ingle sided board decently . they are great for all digital boards. analog noise sensitive precision electronics . no way jose ! True, but Specctra keeps its sticky hands off my carefully hand-routed analogue sections, and routes the huge amounts of digital logic perfectly adequately. Sure, I _could_ do better, but not in a sane amount of time... I'm not sure that Specctra cares about, or has been tuned for, single-sided boards - it certainly seems happiest when faced with a board with power planes, when the results with a decent .do file are acceptable. I never got it to deliver a decent power / ground grid. Fortunately, I no longer care... (And, for smaller boards, the Protel autorouter often works better, but hand-routing still wins if I need something better than a prototype hack.) Steve * Tracking #: 415404CF497EE34596DDF9E432F1A053C03A7DE0 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] DXP Equivilent of 99SE component global changes?
Hi, I'm evaluating DXP. Had evaluated 99SE a few months ago and made a small two layer board.I'm now converting the board to DXP to see how that goes. In 99SE I could select a component, hit the GLOBA tab, and change parameters of all components easily (like locking or unlocking all components).Now I want to unlock all of the components on this test board, but I don't see the equivilent of the GLOBAL command anywhere. Looked in the help section, but not too helpful. All I'm able to do right now is select each component and manually unlock it. All help appreciated. Bill * Tracking #: C1A661F11E0DDA4CAC76AFD5041BB22AE163362F * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
Get ready to bend over for the maintenance fees on $26,000. Hmmm, send a kid to college, or... You know with all the bitching that goes on around here about Protel, you guys seem to forget how inexpensive it really is for what you're getting. With PowerPCB, you pay and pay and pay for every little feature. (I own this too) Online DRC: $500 Unlimited Database: $4000 Advanced rules: $4000 Assembly Variants: $500 (Hmmm, protel just added this one to DXP) Automatic Dimensioning: $500 Split/Mixed Planes Tools: $2500 Basically all that is built in with Protel. -Original Message- From: Harry Selfridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:02 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Just a thought, but the last time I priced a Cadence Allegro package, the stated price of $26,000US was for a ONE(1) year license. The low-ball price may be likewise for a one year license. I would get all the details before I got too excited. --Harry At 04:39 PM 7/31/02 -0400, you wrote: hmmm, at $2K/Yr., ATS fees would pay for this in about 7 years. ---Phil BTS Isn't that about $14,400 USD? If it's full versions, that's a big discount! BTS Probably much cheaper than buying Protel 99SE (or DXP) and Specctra BTS separately. BTS Best regards, BTS Ivan Baggett BTS Bagotronix Inc. BTS website: www.bagotronix.com BTS - Original Message - BTS From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM BTS Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. snip * Tracking #: A4F959DFF9F6A6498DF9D52FE838422FCE7537B8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
The problem is that if Altium moderates the list, they can remove anything they don't like. I agree with Darryl, open discussion and criticism is very important. I am amazed at the efforts some companies are taking to squelch criticism. Not like, by fixing the product, but by other means. I suggest we keep the DXP discussion here. They can't make us take it to their list. Where did you get the info on ATS? Will the real ATS please stand up? (And here, not in the DXP-only list). Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Rene Tschaggelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! I joined. Not much on at the moment. There are very few having DXP at the moment. I wouldn't even have time at the moment. The yahoogroup is public too. Works like this one but could be quieter. We'll see. The creators are supposed to be there too. Since I don't have Win2k on my usual machines, I'll have to delay an install of DXP a bit. BTW, I was amazed to learn today that this ATS is not replacing the upgrading as we're used to but is additional and not compulsary. So this ATS appears to mean faster and better communication, hopefully. Every other company is having their own news server to support their products, a yahoogroup is the lowest entry. Rene Darryl Newberry wrote: BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I bet the real reason they are creating their own list is so THEY can filter and control the distribution. I prefer to bitch here in a public forum where the world can read about it. * Tracking #: DBCF1A10B8E38B45BB4993D46341F8D492BFC825 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
At 02:49 PM 7/31/2002 -0400, Darryl Newberry wrote: BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I have. I bet the real reason they are creating their own list is so THEY can filter and control the distribution. I highly doubt it. Gad, what a paranoid view of the world! The yahoogroups DXP list is open subscription, though they could change that at any time -- and they might, to avoid the autosubscribing spammers, not to prevent legitimate users from subscribing. If Protel used their position as owner of the list to prevent legitimate discussion, they would not be able to keep it secret because of this list and the other yahoogroups lists, it would be next to suicidal, really stupid, and they aren't stupid at all, not to mention *that* stupid. No, they simply responded to a user suggestion that a separate list be formed to deal with a more narrow topic that could otherwise overwhelm this list. I've done that kind of thing in the past and also met with some hostility, though the consensus has been, I think, supportive. I've written many times that I'd see this list as improved if it were to fracture into many lists, each one more focused, but with the provision that, ordinarly, subscribing to a main list automatically subscribed one to the subsidiary lists. I.e., opt-in for the main list, then opt-out for special topic lists. Those who were generally interested in Protel and wanted to read everything would get everything, i.e., it would be, pretty much, as things were when there was only the one Techserv Forum. Those who needed to cut down their mail intake could unsubscribe from the more specialized lists while still being able to get mail on the topics which interested them particularly (for most of us this might be a main user mutual tech-support list, which is the main function of the Techserv list at this time.) The Protel Users Association has a family of lists on yahoogroups, including a list used to make decisions as an association. The Association is not likely to start up a special list in competition with an existing list unless the existing list is being managed abusively. In other words, if enough of us agreed that the Protel-owned DXP list was unjusly censoring posts, we'd simply start our own, or we would simply ignore the Protel list and discuss DXP here, until or unless Techserv decides to shut that down. (Techserv is a private company, a service bureau, and is *not* controlled by Protel users, per se. But mostly they keep their hands off the list.) I prefer to bitch here in a public forum where the world can read about it. That strategy works for some people, or, more accurately, it worked once or a few times, so the person continues to repeat it, i.e., attempts to get better service or products by excoriating the company that provides it or them, and does not notice how rarely it works. More often, it is tilting at windmills which, by and large, tend to ignore all the shouting and continue to turn according to their own ideas. Complaining about Protel software in a public forum can be useful where a consensus develops among users as a result; where such a consensus has been developed and, particularly if it is formally expressed, we have seen Altium staff to be very, very responsive. It is not necessary as part of this process to consider them evil conspirators or incompetent boobs who are ruining the life of all us innocent people by inflicting junk software on us. It is not necessary for us to imply that their work product is junk or trash. If it were junk or trash, we wouldn't be using it! If someone really thinks that there is a better product *for the money*, I, for one, would like to know about it. However, mere bitching rarely results in such an expressed consensus, since bitching does little more than relieve some emotional pressure on the part of the complainer, thus there is *less* energy available for the work of actually facilitating change. As to Cadence, Cadence definitely monitors this list, though that does not mean that they necessarily use addresses here to promote their products. If they did, it would be a violation of list rules as they stand, though it would *not* be, in my opinion, spam. Spam is by definition, not targeted to an audience reasonably likely to have an interest in the product. Personally, if Cadence has offers, I'd like to receive them, though I would caution Protel users that (1) Cadence has a tendency to understate the true cost of ownership of the software in its promotions. For example, they advertised Allegro Studio at $10K at one point, I was seriously considering it. I did not find out until later that the price did not include maintenance, *and the purchase of a year's maintenance was obligatory, part of the deal, and it was $5K.* They've changed, I think, some of the policies, so this is just a head's up. (2) Cadence is not an open design system, and those of us who are
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
I agree with you completely. Except the part about a) 3D and video games. And b) imperial vs. metric. a) Modern integrated product design is done with 3D assembly modeling, period. Anything else is too risky when dealing with expensive tooling and time to market. Take apart a cell phone sometime. Where I work, it's the PCB designer's job to ensure that the assembly fits the enclosure constraints, and doesn't melt the plastic off the damn thing. IMO an $8K so-called integrated complete package (i.e. Protel) needs to deliver on its marketing promises. b) Metric is the internationally accepted scientific standard. Imperial is a Luddite tactic to complicate the rest of the world's measurements, but it's kept alive by the sheer power of the US consumption machine. SMT components are dimensioned in metric by default, they add inch dimensions to keep people like you from complaining. We produce our board documentation in inches so the board houses don't get confused. Is it 0.01 mm or is it 0.010001 mm? Only your PCB package knows for sure. Why, yes, I do feel much happier now. -Original Message- From: vincent mail [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 16:42 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! Darryl Newberry wrote: Ah, but does Cadence offer semi-functional, non-extensible, and pathetically slw 3D viewing? Or automated online submission of your precious Get a PIV-2.53 ghz with a gig of RDRAM If you want realtime 3d play quake or doom or duke nukem. Board layout is not about 3d viewing. design data to dozens of unknown PCB vendors? Or half-assed SPICE and SI simulations that make your entire computer system unusable for other tasks? Does it offer a proprietary (but broken) multi-user sharing and permissions scheme? How about metric conversion that changes your XY locations without use imperial like the rest of the world. warning? Limitation of 16 hole sizes in the drill table? All these benefits and more are yours with Proteland probably with DXP too! IMO Specctra kicks all kinds of major bootay. No comparison to anything else I've ever seen. Even using default settings the route quality is comparable to manual design. pet . wrong answer. i'll get you a couple of 5.4 GHz strip line designs and we'll see how good your router does on them. If you make your daily living routing PCBs (note that I don't), I'm sure Specctra will easily pay for itself in reduced layout time, with the caveat that you have to become expert at scripting (DO files) to get the most out of it. autorouters suck . including specctra. they can't even route a ingle sided board decently . they are great for all digital boards. analog noise sensitive precision electronics . no way jose ! BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I bet the real reason they are creating their own list is so THEY can filter and control the distribution. I prefer to bitch here in a public forum where the world can read about it. well , feel free to bitch about this email too if it makes you feel happier ** ** * Tracking #: 9F99C2AB242EB74C8A0A5720AFFABE62032500E6 * ** ** -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _ // Vincent Himpe // _ ___/ Lab Manager / \ \ / / /ST Microelectronics /___\ \ / / / 5510 Six Forks Road . Suite 200 /__//_/__/ Raleigh NC 27612 Tel : (919) 850 6070 Fax : (919) 850 6689 e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
If you want to see how little ATS is (not that I like any sort of maintenance), compare it to a quote I got from Cadence the other day to 'catch up' my maintenance on Specctra: $8550. I fell on the floor laughing. Let's see I can use the current version they just gave me indefinately for free, OR pay $8550, and keep on using it... LOL!!! HA HA HA HA -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 1:07 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! I joined. Not much on at the moment. There are very few having DXP at the moment. I wouldn't even have time at the moment. The yahoogroup is public too. Works like this one but could be quieter. We'll see. The creators are supposed to be there too. Since I don't have Win2k on my usual machines, I'll have to delay an install of DXP a bit. BTW, I was amazed to learn today that this ATS is not replacing the upgrading as we're used to but is additional and not compulsary. So this ATS appears to mean faster and better communication, hopefully. Every other company is having their own news server to support their products, a yahoogroup is the lowest entry. Rene Darryl Newberry wrote: BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I bet the real reason they are creating their own list is so THEY can filter and control the distribution. I prefer to bitch here in a public forum where the world can read about it. * Tracking #: EBCD411B31294C4CAA10DFD55CC517651BC522DE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?
so what's up w/ DXP schematic ? i haven't heard any noises about that anything fun or exciting? (or otherwise) i don't suppose they added export to orcad sch, did they? Dennis Saputelli * Tracking #: EEA2CAED589E2548ABC127010047E371C92ED4C8 * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] AW: DXP Discussion
At 10:33 AM 7/31/2002 +0200, Gütlein, Ralf wrote: As I recall, 'to bag' by word means 'to put sth. in a bag'. In colloquial language this may stand for 'to snap' or 'to grab', but in different countries there may be different flavors of what it may mean. 'Abandon' makes also sense esp. if the bag is a garbage bag ;-) But I may be totally off the mark, as my native language is german... No, you are spot on. The noun, I think, is the original word, a bag. This noun usually refers to a flexible container, such as a grocery bag, but in usage it also has derivative uses, such as bag used in slang to refer to a person's preferred activities. What's your bag? I like to write about Protel. From this comes the action of putting a thing into a bag. So a bagger at the grocery store is so-called, and what she or she does is to bag groceries. We tend to put trash into bags, so to bag a thing becomes synonymous to trashing it, i.e., discarding it, but trash is also used to refer to severe criticism (it would not be used for constructive criticism), hence the meaning of bag that we encountered from Mr. Wilson. He could have used trash synonymously. We can bag Protel or we can try to improve it. It is true that, in some cases, bagging the program will lead to improvements, but, psychologically, people tend to respond better to constructive criticism than to perjorative denigration, and, for better or for worse, the staff at Altium is all human. Generally, once a person has become known as one who is generally and what might be called abusively critical, that person may not be heard any more by the people who can do something about the problem as well as will be those who are perceived as being friendly and supportive. However, even open and declared enemies can often give us the most useful criticism, thus Altium could be advised to listen well even to the most cantankerous critics, but that would be advice for Altium, not for us as Protel users. Abd ul-Rahman Lomax LOMAX DESIGN ASSOCIATES PCB design, consulting, and training Protel EDA license resales Easthampton, Massachusetts, USA (413) 527-3881, efax (419) 730-4777 www.lomaxdesign.com * Tracking #: 5F9B11A399519549A4C39E7B1E866407BB9918C2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
what is powerpcb?, pads? i take it you like protel better? Dennis Saputelli Tony Karavidas wrote: Get ready to bend over for the maintenance fees on $26,000. Hmmm, send a kid to college, or... You know with all the bitching that goes on around here about Protel, you guys seem to forget how inexpensive it really is for what you're getting. With PowerPCB, you pay and pay and pay for every little feature. (I own this too) Online DRC: $500 Unlimited Database: $4000 Advanced rules: $4000 Assembly Variants: $500 (Hmmm, protel just added this one to DXP) Automatic Dimensioning: $500 Split/Mixed Planes Tools: $2500 Basically all that is built in with Protel. -Original Message- From: Harry Selfridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:02 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Just a thought, but the last time I priced a Cadence Allegro package, the stated price of $26,000US was for a ONE(1) year license. The low-ball price may be likewise for a one year license. I would get all the details before I got too excited. --Harry At 04:39 PM 7/31/02 -0400, you wrote: hmmm, at $2K/Yr., ATS fees would pay for this in about 7 years. ---Phil BTS Isn't that about $14,400 USD? If it's full versions, that's a big discount! BTS Probably much cheaper than buying Protel 99SE (or DXP) and Specctra BTS separately. BTS Best regards, BTS Ivan Baggett BTS Bagotronix Inc. BTS website: www.bagotronix.com BTS - Original Message - BTS From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM BTS Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. snip * Tracking #: A4F959DFF9F6A6498DF9D52FE838422FCE7537B8 * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
At 06:21 AM 7/31/2002 -0400, Frances Wheeler wrote: Question to smartest of smartest designers out there: She's too busy to read this list, so the rest of us will have to do. Copper pours of this size are poured last because they are time consuming. The pours can take 4 hours, and even longer if they are not right the first time. Question to any of the best out there.can we avoid a copper pour and merge a gnd layer to the top? Suppose the worst designer reading this list knows how to accomplish the task? Should he keep it to himself? To the question. First of all, the amount of time that a copper pour takes depends heavily on the settings. Since this is a pour for a no-signal outer layer (a very useful stackup technique, BTW), the pour might be a bit less complex than it would be otherwise. I'd use a relatively large pour track, perhaps 10 mils or maybe even larger. Pour pitch should be set to zero. Protel interprets this as a command to separate the tracks by exactly the track width. I.e., a maximum efficiency pour. It is generally not necessary to pour in more than one direction. If one desired pour track to pass between pins with a narrow width, it is not necessary to set the entire pour to that width. Instead. Make a pass-through pattern for a part and copy that pattern over the part with the pour already done. Protel will assign these copied tracks the proper net. Don't you love it when you ask a question and the answer comes back, Wrong question!? So, here is an answer to the question itself, just in case that pour is just plain too big to be practical: I was a Tango DOS user, and Tango did not have a pour facility, so I used film merge techniques. In fact, I literally wrote the book on this for Accel. I'll modify the process to match what I would do with Protel: First, route the ground (if that's the net being used) with track entirely on the layer to be poured. You may be able to use the autorouter to do this; since there are no signal tracks on the layer (other than via fanouts), the routing is trivial. This track is going to become the ties on the thermal reliefs around each pad, so you might want to extend the track beyond the pad. I could give a way to speed up this process as well, but that is not important in understanding how to make the merge. This process will satisfy DRC (with, perhaps, appropriate top layer width settings). It will be plotted in the positive. For the negative, you can't use a Protel inner plane for reasons that have already been given: the plane is created based on specified clearance from holes, and SMT pads don't even have holes, plus the thermal reliefs, if you specify them, will be based on relieving a round hole and pad, the external pad shape is ignored. What you want is a plot of the pads and vias, albeit expanded by a given clearance. You could use a padmaster plot, but there is no provision in such a plot for expansion. You could provide the photoplotter people with expanded flash definitions, but I'd rather see all of what is necessary incorporated into the board file itself, plus, perhaps, plot definitions (in the CAM Manager.) What works is a solder mask plot, since it is pad-based, and I think expansion can be controlled layer-wise. Paste mask would only clear the SMT pads. You may need to set up separate design rules for plotting the blowout negative and for plotting the actual solder mask negative, and enable the appropriate rule before generating the corresponding plot. I don't see a way around that, perhaps someone can think of one. Typically, on an SMT job, the solder mask settings would be substantially smaller (say, 2 to 4 mils) than what one would use for a plane blowout. (at least 10 mils) If you want to add blowout areas to the ground plane, I'd suggest using a mechanical layer. When the films are merged, the sequence of plotting is crucial. The negative must be plotted first to subtract copper, then the positive, with the connection tracks, must be added to it. I gave simple written instructions to the photoplotters and they never got it wrong. (Like Plot FileA negative, add Plot B positive.) I don't think that Protel allows us to control the plot file names; that is unfortunate, I've seen a number of frustrating situations arise out of this. Sure it is easy to rename the files, but the goal is a design that, next time, will photoplot the same without any special manipulation, i.e., opportunity for error). CAMtastic, I think, can be used to correctly view such merged plots. I used to use Tango itself, which, like Protel, imports its own gerber, to view the merges, but using a CAM program is a little better. Now, there is a complication. What about fanout track or other non-ground track on the layer? Using global edits, all non-ground track on the layer should be selected and copied to the blowout mech layer and then expanded appropriately. This part of the process is
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
I got the info from our distributor on discussion of a quote. It might be I somewhat misunderstood the ATS from the beginning. I had the impression of a system change, the microsoft way. Now it appears to be an addition. You get it together with an upgrade and don't have to renew it. I admittedly didn't have a too close look at the glossy paper. Rene Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: The problem is that if Altium moderates the list, they can remove anything they don't like. I agree with Darryl, open discussion and criticism is very important. I am amazed at the efforts some companies are taking to squelch criticism. Not like, by fixing the product, but by other means. I suggest we keep the DXP discussion here. They can't make us take it to their list. Where did you get the info on ATS? Will the real ATS please stand up? (And here, not in the DXP-only list). * Tracking #: 955F23D8A6778A408231A7D7C079C60FD5537344 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP discussion
A software company trying to cover up its bugs Invoking both the controversial 1998 DMCA and computer crime laws, HP has threatened to sue a team of researchers who publicized a vulnerability in the company's Tru64 Unix operating system. http://news.com.com/2100-1023-947325.html I will stick with this user forum. The Protel moderated forum may have been suitable for those who volunteered to non-disclosure terms, but not for a released product. Duane Foster -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:09 PM The problem is that if Altium moderates the list, they can remove anything they don't like. I agree with Darryl, open discussion and criticism is very important. I am amazed at the efforts some companies are taking to squelch criticism. Not like, by fixing the product, but by other means. I suggest we keep the DXP discussion here. They can't make us take it to their list. Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. * Tracking #: DA46B7F44E60CA46BE1483368DA3E08E957BFB9B * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP Equivilent of 99SE component global changes?
That now is the expression evaluator. I forgot where it is located. It is far more powerful than the global one, but tahes some thoughts. Rene Bill wrote: Hi, I'm evaluating DXP. Had evaluated 99SE a few months ago and made a small two layer board.I'm now converting the board to DXP to see how that goes. In 99SE I could select a component, hit the GLOBA tab, and change parameters of all components easily (like locking or unlocking all components).Now I want to unlock all of the components on this test board, but I don't see the equivilent of the GLOBAL command anywhere. Looked in the help section, but not too helpful. All I'm able to do right now is select each component and manually unlock it. * Tracking #: 651EA446468AC6488EE879C34A914667C72C82AD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
Yeah it was PADS, then it was Innoveda, now it's Mentor. It's hard to keep track, I know. Yeah I like Protel a lot better. I used PowerPCB at one job a few years ago, and it found it confining, confusing, un-natural, and unstable. When I revisit an old board done in PowerPCB, I cannot remember where to start. With Protel, that never happens. Tony -Original Message- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:21 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer what is powerpcb?, pads? i take it you like protel better? Dennis Saputelli Tony Karavidas wrote: Get ready to bend over for the maintenance fees on $26,000. Hmmm, send a kid to college, or... You know with all the bitching that goes on around here about Protel, you guys seem to forget how inexpensive it really is for what you're getting. With PowerPCB, you pay and pay and pay for every little feature. (I own this too) Online DRC: $500 Unlimited Database: $4000 Advanced rules: $4000 Assembly Variants: $500 (Hmmm, protel just added this one to DXP) Automatic Dimensioning: $500 Split/Mixed Planes Tools: $2500 Basically all that is built in with Protel. -Original Message- From: Harry Selfridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:02 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Just a thought, but the last time I priced a Cadence Allegro package, the stated price of $26,000US was for a ONE(1) year license. The low-ball price may be likewise for a one year license. I would get all the details before I got too excited. --Harry At 04:39 PM 7/31/02 -0400, you wrote: hmmm, at $2K/Yr., ATS fees would pay for this in about 7 years. ---Phil BTS Isn't that about $14,400 USD? If it's full versions, that's a big discount! BTS Probably much cheaper than buying Protel 99SE (or DXP) and Specctra BTS separately. BTS Best regards, BTS Ivan Baggett BTS Bagotronix Inc. BTS website: www.bagotronix.com BTS - Original Message - BTS From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTS Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM BTS Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. snip * Tracking #: A4F959DFF9F6A6498DF9D52FE838422FCE7537B8 * -- __ _ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
I didn't know that Altium had set up a DXP List, where is it? By the way: Congradulations and Welcome Home Papa! I hope that your family, including the new baby is doing fine, and look forward to a report on your month of July in China, perhaps in the OT forum where you can eloborate and no one will mind. JaMi * * * * * * * * - Original Message - From: Abd ulRahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! At 02:49 PM 7/31/2002 -0400, Darryl Newberry wrote: BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I have. snip * Tracking #: ECE62082029C7F41A3DA1A5238A88337AB1AEF11 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
It's highly unlikely they will chop email. Yeah, they could, but I don't think they would. Anyone could come over here and indicate that was happening... -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 2:09 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! The problem is that if Altium moderates the list, they can remove anything they don't like. I agree with Darryl, open discussion and criticism is very important. I am amazed at the efforts some companies are taking to squelch criticism. Not like, by fixing the product, but by other means. I suggest we keep the DXP discussion here. They can't make us take it to their list. Where did you get the info on ATS? Will the real ATS please stand up? (And here, not in the DXP-only list). Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Rene Tschaggelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!! I joined. Not much on at the moment. There are very few having DXP at the moment. I wouldn't even have time at the moment. The yahoogroup is public too. Works like this one but could be quieter. We'll see. The creators are supposed to be there too. Since I don't have Win2k on my usual machines, I'll have to delay an install of DXP a bit. BTW, I was amazed to learn today that this ATS is not replacing the upgrading as we're used to but is additional and not compulsary. So this ATS appears to mean faster and better communication, hopefully. Every other company is having their own news server to support their products, a yahoogroup is the lowest entry. Rene Darryl Newberry wrote: BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I bet the real reason they are creating their own list is so THEY can filter and control the distribution. I prefer to bitch here in a public forum where the world can read about it. * Tracking #: DBCF1A10B8E38B45BB4993D46341F8D492BFC825 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
[PEDA] Timezones - pls check
Hello all, A few people seem to have incorrect timezone settings or maybe the date or time on their PCs is incorrect. This is only a small point but messages are not sort in Eudora (in date/time order) correctly. Anyone else see the same thing? Vincent M. seems to be one as does Narinder K. I have been-there done-that, so please don't take this as a criticism. Ian Wilson * Tracking #: 541579224A3DC44B81A269504A4566530C69EEDC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
Something I forgot to mention: If the parts are surface mount then the internal plane has no hog-outs at all for the pads. Thats why you might be interested in using the soldermask layer instead. Dave Lewis We looked at it today Dave the mask layer would work except we still need to tie the copper to gnd. I think the best solution offered might be using a few different pours. Divide the board into 4 quadrants then pour with overlaps. I just found out the cost of one these boards to mfg is around 10 K each.I hate to send these out relying on the fab house performing tricks on them that I cant verify. Thanks to all for responding Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * Tracking #: FC40710B72761841951A517856DEDDC094996BDD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
Abdul wrote AND WELCOME BACK! Suppose the worst designer reading this list knows how to accomplish the task? Should he keep it to himself? No that automatically requalifies the worst designer as the best of the best .It is generally not necessary to pour in more than one direction. That we havent tried. I might have mentioned this is a backplane I saw it for the first time today, it has 42,000 pads If one desired pour track to pass between pins with a narrow width, it is not necessary to set the entire pour to that width. Instead. Make a pass-through pattern for a part and copy that pattern over the part with the pour already done. Protel will assign these copied tracks the proper net. That is too risky and cumbersome of a solution if we have to edit the design, but thanks First, route the ground (if that's the net being used) with track entirely ...etc Abdul, we decided to BAG ( our terms means Sh- can ) the merge system becuase the we can not control verification on a board that cost 10K a pop . POP means each for you down under.We will attempt dividing the design into 4 quadrants and pour separately. Thanks Mike Reagan EDSI * Tracking #: 5C18A182D0451645ABEFB0347B0181D5D3D3304E * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?
so what's up w/ DXP schematic ? i haven't heard any noises about that anything fun or exciting? (or otherwise) i don't suppose they added export to orcad sch, did they? Dennis Saputelli I'm waiting to hear about that too. I would also like to know if they have added the ability to break a wire. Brock * Tracking #: 71119F8FBF98144F83D379FDC93E94437C20D2CE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer! !!!
On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:49:14 -0400, Darryl Newberry wrote: BTW, anybody going to join Altium's DXP list? I bet the real reason they are creating their own list is so THEY can filter and control the distribution. I prefer to bitch here in a public forum where the world can read about it. I did - the first time I ever tried to join a Yahoo group and the experience was every bit as bad as I imagined. I have my own personal 'Privacy Policy'... Never enter any valid information including email addresses into a web Never accept persistent cookies. Always block referer addresses and a variety of 'nosey' scripting functions. I also have a personal 'Sanity Policy' which dictates I browse the web though a filtering proxy which blocks almost all advertising, stops graphic animations, blocks sounds, activex controls, flash and the majority of pop-up windows and various other bits of gratuitous crap. I had to seriously violate both these policies to join and read the Yahoo group. BTW I notice Premier EDA now has a web site I can stand the sight of - my filtering proxy is now almost redundant on that site. Perhaps email subscription would be less onerous, but Yahoo isn't going to get an email address of mine that I actually bother to read. Cheers, Terry. * Tracking #: 3FC1E37364128946BE93426EE7F6CBDCFF87EE37 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
There is maybe one other trick that may save time. You could cut and paste the polygons into a separate file and than paste them back in when you are finished making any other changes, assuming there will be no changes required to the polygons, then choose no to the repour question. Not sure how much faster your computer would be without the polygon. Darren Moore -Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Something I forgot to mention: If the parts are surface mount then the internal plane has no hog-outs at all for the pads. Thats why you might be interested in using the soldermask layer instead. Dave Lewis We looked at it today Dave the mask layer would work except we still need to tie the copper to gnd. I think the best solution offered might be using a few different pours. Divide the board into 4 quadrants then pour with overlaps. I just found out the cost of one these boards to mfg is around 10 K each.I hate to send these out relying on the fab house performing tricks on them that I cant verify. Thanks to all for responding Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * Tracking #: A3379E1E1FDC9E48B6D9A051F3361677ADF901AE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] DXP comment, but slightly off topic
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
On 09:35 PM 31/07/2002 -0700, Michael Reagan (EDSI) said: Abdul, we decided to BAG ( our terms means Sh- can ) the merge system becuase the we can not control verification on a board that cost 10K a pop . POP means each for you down under. Pop=each is what we know down-under-on-top :-) I though you lot called fizzy drinks pop. Now we are OT. Ian * Tracking #: 171A21705501B94FABED877E4239F5300D9D3265 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP Discussion
And it looks like beta v2 to me. Igor -Original Message- From: Andrew Jenkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 10:01 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP Discussion -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] You're wrong. The NDA applies for afterwards too. The NDA covers the NDA too, I guess. The beta was a lot of tiring work, so let's forget about the beta and focus on the release. You do your purchase decision on the release and not on the beta. Not if the release is a beta. aj * Tracking #: 541D12CB1599CE4FA9E4170599E6696227A707AD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Copper pours on outer layers
Something that may help you as well, would be to select to surround the pads with octagons rather than arcs. Phil. We looked at it today Dave the mask layer would work except we still need to tie the copper to gnd. I think the best solution offered might be using a few different pours. Divide the board into 4 quadrants then pour with overlaps. I just found out the cost of one these boards to mfg is around 10 K each.I hate to send these out relying on the fab house performing tricks on them that I cant verify. Thanks to all for responding Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * Tracking #: A3379E1E1FDC9E48B6D9A051F3361677ADF901AE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] DXP schematic, any good?
On 06:30 PM 31/07/2002 -0700, Brock Russell said: so what's up w/ DXP schematic ? i haven't heard any noises about that anything fun or exciting? (or otherwise) i don't suppose they added export to orcad sch, did they? Dennis Saputelli I'm waiting to hear about that too. I would also like to know if they have added the ability to break a wire. Brock The ability to break a wire is already sort of there (in P99SE) - you have to split the wire first. If you click (as if you are going to move it) on a wire and then hit the INS key you will add a vertex. You can then delete the wire you no longer want. DXP now (optionally) allows co-linear wires to be merged, which removes the silent, stealthy auto-junction hotspots that has been an on-going source of complaints for years (hurray!!!, took long enough). I have not checked how this may affect the ability to add a vertex (to form a co-linear line segment) - it may go an merge them again. So the solution would be to make the new vertex off the desired line slightly, delete the section you don't want and then move the vertex back again. Not really a good work around but possibly better than removing all of a polyline and then having to put it back again. While moving a wire (sch) or polygon/split plane vertex (PCB) the INS and DELETE keys can be used to add and remove vertices. Ian * Tracking #: 4B9BE6D31E9DA149B2D0D920D10909CB39CE578E * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] rectangle hole?
Tim, if you use those holes just for the mechanical fixing points, you can create them by using Fills in the footprint. If you want to plate them through, there are some PCB manufacturers doing it on request. If you want to create them as pads, that is not possible. You will have to wait until DXP SE(sixth edition). Igor -Original Message- From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 2:26 AM To: Protel EDA Form Subject: [PEDA] rectangle hole? I'm creating a connector footprint with two rectangle holes or slots for mechanical stability. How do I create rectangle holes? Tim Fifield * Tracking #: F043784119037E49B6F4845F2C828DF67ED2F5AD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
Guys, No, Cadence has always had a Studio ver. out it is their LOW end seat. They usually had deals for about 11-12K for it though I guess they went up a bit. They limt number of auto-routable layer at once, and limt signal inegrity rules a bit. Check their web site if you really want to find out capabilities of this level package. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Isn't that about $14,400 USD? If it's full versions, that's a big discount! Probably much cheaper than buying Protel 99SE (or DXP) and Specctra separately. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Stephen Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: [PEDA] Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hello all, very off topic for a Protel forum, so sue me! I just had an email, telling me that I can have Cadence PCB Design Studio, with Allegro and Specctra (don't know Specctra spec, though) for an astonishing price. It's reduced from 23,000 GBP to 8,995 GBP!!! Interesting timing! Steve. * Tracking #: 9F99C2AB242EB74C8A0A5720AFFABE62032500E6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Jami's Protel Bugs.
Michael, Sorry for the delay in responding. The first things beyond simple hand taping that were in anyway pointed towards the automation that we have today in the world of PCB Design were to make photo masters on stable film which were generated on a Gerber Scientific X-Y Co-odinatograph which we used in a darkened room and manually cranked (dialed) in the proper X and Y co-ordinates and then flashed an aperture for the given type of pad that was required at that specific location. After many hours, and sometimes days, of doing this, providing we did not make a mistake, we would have a photo master of a standard array of standard 16 pin dips, with a board outline and edge connector, which would then be duplicated on stable film to serve as a basis of hand taped artworks on the Burroughs 3600 Computer. In the mid seventies, I was introduced to a program that was run on the old Time Share network which required you to enter data in a bizzare format thru your 110 baud ASR33 Teletype (still have one of those in my basement) and wait a day or two for a program that was written in ALGOL to solve your optimum plavement and layout, which information would come back over the Teletype. Can't even remember the name of the program, but you still had to hand tape the resultant placement and layout. In the late seventies I used a Gerber X-Y table to scribe rubylith. Somewhere in the early eighties while at TRW, believe it or not, we actually began to use Lockheed CADAM for a while, which was a Mechanical CAD System, to make PCB Artworks where we would draw a board outline and card edge connector for a PCB, and then draw a line with a specific line thicknesses (for traces) and symbols (for pads), rather than Tape them by hand on mylar. Somewhere along the line, probably in the early to mid eighties, there was DOS Tango. Also while at TRW I also used the Bell Northern CBDS system, and also did a little work on the early Mentor systems (pre Board Station (on appolo platforms)). Somewhere about 85 or 86, whenever it came out, when I was still at TRW, we were one of the first to acquire Cadnetix (I still have a functional 5000S system pedistal and monitor of my own which I am just now looking at). In the late eighties, I worked with Mentor Board Station 6, and then in the early ninties with Dasix (who bought out Cadnetix), and again with CBDS, and had some training on AutoTrax. In the mid ninties there was again some Cadnetix and a little bit on VeriBest and Pads PowerPCB (which continues on an occasional basis until now (with some occasional use of other older versions of Pads sprinkeled in at a few other times in the past)). Late ninties thru now, mostly Protel 98 and Protel 99 SE, most of which was forced on me by employers, however, I have become quite proficient at Protel 99SE inspite of its shortcommings and bugs (yes Ian, bugs), so in view of the recent state of the economy and my failure to believe that it can sustain the industry without possible business failures and layoff's in the electronic sector, I decided to bite the bullet and purchase my own copy of Protel 99 SE several months ago, just in case I need to fall back on consulting. Hopefully this will establish to you that I have been around for a few years in the PCB Design business, and have used my fair share of systems, enough anyway so as to be able to realistically critique a product such as Protel 99 SE. I have experience with other Mechanical and Schematic systems, but those appear to be outside the scope of your question. JaMi * * * * * * * * * * - Original Message - From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Jami's Protel Bugs. Jami, I would like to hear what other programs you have experience with for PCB design and why you chose Protel for your design system or did you get stuck with it Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * Tracking #: 7ACE67F3FE28654DAC7A5F36D5E712596A1F4D0E * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Tony, Sorry for the delayed response - just now catching up. See below - - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Just because some software 'comes with the system' doesn't mean it's correct or the latests. If you install Win2000 TODAY, you'll get IE4 or IE5 with it. (I don't remember the exact version) It was current at the time of manufacture, but it's not the latest with BUG fixes, security patches, etc. Your mouse driver might be 'old.' What version MS mouse driver is on that system the moment after you installed it? What version is available NOW on the MS site?? Yeah, cars have standard equipment and car manufacturers also recall product because it wasn't quite right. Maybe the mouse driver up until recently wasn't quite right. snip Wholly irrelevant, and wholly misses the point. Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Is it too much to ask for you to lay all of your other presuppositions and arguements aside for just a moment and look at that simple sentance, and understand what it means. It really is not that complicated at all. Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! JaMi * Tracking #: 39285FFF9074EC4791039D6B4299F99C5251D487 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
As others have told you, there are reasons some programs misbehave when they are not the root cause. You are so adamant about Protel being the problem. I found it funny that several people showed you real world examples of how it's possible you are wrong and yet you still refuse to accept the notion that it might be the mouse driver. I'm sure DXP will give you lots of fuel. Have a good one, Tony -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 9:52 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Tony, Sorry for the delayed response - just now catching up. See below - - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Just because some software 'comes with the system' doesn't mean it's correct or the latests. If you install Win2000 TODAY, you'll get IE4 or IE5 with it. (I don't remember the exact version) It was current at the time of manufacture, but it's not the latest with BUG fixes, security patches, etc. Your mouse driver might be 'old.' What version MS mouse driver is on that system the moment after you installed it? What version is available NOW on the MS site?? Yeah, cars have standard equipment and car manufacturers also recall product because it wasn't quite right. Maybe the mouse driver up until recently wasn't quite right. snip Wholly irrelevant, and wholly misses the point. Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! Is it too much to ask for you to lay all of your other presuppositions and arguements aside for just a moment and look at that simple sentance, and understand what it means. It really is not that complicated at all. Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! ! JaMi * Tracking #: 39285FFF9074EC4791039D6B4299F99C5251D487 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
