Re: [RDA-L] About the coming transfer of RDA-L

2013-12-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Jamie, Two more questions about the forthcoming transfer of RDA-L: 1. Will the URLs for mails in the present archive still be working? For example, will http://www.mail-archive.com/rda-l@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca/msg11767.html still retrieve your announcement of 18 December? I've sometimes

Re: [RDA-L] Some more examples of qualified conventional collective titles

2013-12-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Adolfo, I've read up the comments in the PCC-list archive on this topic. I like the practice of UCSD (I quote from Ryan Finnerty's mail): UCSD does not use CCTs when the works in a compilation are issued for the first time in that compilation. Examples include an original book of poems by

Re: [RDA-L] Some more examples of qualified conventional collective titles

2013-12-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
We are talking about the level of the work here. The title of the manifestation is, of course, always recorded in the respective manifestation element. Heidrun Bernhard Eversberg wrote: Am 20.12.2013 13:37, schrieb Heidrun Wiesenmüller: I think the interesting point to note

Re: [RDA-L] Some more examples of qualified conventional collective titles

2013-12-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Bernhard Eversberg wrote: But you know that we had non of that casuistry in our rules? And for reasons that had been discussed thoroughly for quite some time. Did we or our users suffer from that or were they pestering us for qualified contentional collective titles? Isn't it just the very

Re: [RDA-L] Some more examples of qualified conventional collective titles

2013-12-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
James Weinheimer wrote: On 12/20/2013 2:49 PM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller wrote: snip Adger Williams wrote: Aren't conventional collective titles really Form/Genre headings? (Poems. Selections, vs. Essays Selections, vs. Works Selections) Would they not serve their function less confusingly

Re: [RDA-L] Some more examples of qualified conventional collective titles

2013-12-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
James, Before making our records even more complicated (and committing more and more ever-disappearing resources) it would make sense to find out if collective uniform titles are/could be useful to the public and if not, why not, and then continue from there. Otherwise, we are all working on

Re: [RDA-L] Some more examples of qualified conventional collective titles

2013-12-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Adolfo, My understanding of FRBR is that regardless of independent existence prior to its appearance, each poem, short story, song, etc., is considered a work in and of itself regardless of whether their creator considered them such. Since a compilation is simply defined as a gathering of

Re: [RDA-L] 6.2.2.10 and 6.27.1.9

2013-12-17 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
James, All of these careful arrangements *completely disintegrated* when they were placed into the computer catalog. Since computers are rather mindless, the uniform title Works is now placed alphabetically under the author's name (W) and as a consequence, people are supposed to *actively

Re: [RDA-L] Collective cities

2013-12-17 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac, Yes, I was only talking about collective titles as a subtype of the former uniform titles. It seems RDA calls this a conventional collective title. The glossary gives as the definition: A title used as the preferred title for a compilation containing two or more works by one person,

[RDA-L] 6.2.2.10 and 6.27.1.9

2013-12-16 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I am uncertain about the relationship of 6.2.2.10 (Recording the Preferred Title for a Compilation of Works of One Person, Family, or Corporate Body) and 6.27.1.9 (Additions to Access Points Representing Works) - both in theory and in practice. If I've got two different collections of works

Re: [RDA-L] Bodleian/OLIS RDA materials

2013-12-14 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I'd like to add my thanks for sharing this huge amount of work with the community. After having started on the Bodleian's documents, I'm most favourably impressed. These materials are very thorough with lots of helpful detail, easy to understand, and contain very good explanations even for

Re: [RDA-L] Who grants the degree?

2013-12-09 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac, Many thanks to yourself and your grandson! My interpretation is that the power of actually granting the degree resides with the university only. But obviously the faculty must tell the representative of the university (the chancellor) who is to be decorated in this way. I think this is

[RDA-L] 7.9 Dissertation/Thesis and FRBR

2013-12-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
According to the German RAK rules, a thesis note is also recorded if there is no formal thesis statement, i.e. if it's not the real thesis which was handed in for the degree, but a later publication of the text. There is only a slight difference in the style of the notes: Note for the real

Re: [RDA-L] Faculty in 7.9.3.3

2013-12-03 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
the thesis template to RDA. -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Heidrun Wiesenmüller Sent: 02 December 2013 09:57 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Faculty in 7.9.3.3 I'm

Re: [RDA-L] Faculty in 7.9.3.3

2013-12-03 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
John, I think the RDA instruction was probably worded that way to allow freedom to record whatever feels most useful and to take into account varying amounts of information available. In most cases it's enough to record the university name, but some libraries feel very particular about

Re: [RDA-L] Faculty in 7.9.3.3

2013-12-03 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac, Another of those ambiguous English words. It can mean the teaching staff of an educational institution. But in this context, it means a subunit of a university which grants degrees. In other words, the body which granted the degree should be in 502. $b. (...) The institution in

[RDA-L] Habilitation theses

2013-12-03 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
On a related note: The other day, we were wondering how habilitation theses should be treated under RDA. These are quite common in Germany. In case you're not familiar with this European concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habilitation Some universities grant the academic degree of Dr.

Re: [RDA-L] Habilitation theses

2013-12-03 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement MIT Libraries 617-253-7137 -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Heidrun Wiesenmüller Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:15 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac

[RDA-L] Optional additions in 2.3.2.6

2013-11-22 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
We've been discussing 2.3.2.6 Collective Title and Titles of Individual Contents the other day, and there was some disagreement about its meaning, especially with regard to the optional additions. It seems to me that 2.3.2.6 covers two different cases: #1: A resource containing several works,

Re: [RDA-L] RDA Toolkit Price Change

2013-11-22 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Isn't it amazing that *nobody* has commented on the new prices for the RDA Toolkit? Looking at http://www.rdatoolkit.org/content/2014pricechange, I had a short moment of mirth when I noticed that the symbol for the British pound is used for the Euro prices as well (let's wait and see whether

Re: [RDA-L] Added access point for one name in a work that is a compilation of works

2013-11-22 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Pete, Working in Germany, I can't see the full OCLC record either, but I know exactly what you mean as this is a question which has bothered me for some time, as well. In fact, I've brought the same point up twice on this list before (oh dear, it seems I'm repeating myself...). Read up

Re: [RDA-L] Government, jurisdiction, territorial authority?

2013-11-10 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: Verena Schaffner asked: How would you define the differences between jurisdiction, government a= nd territorial authority? They are not mutually exclusive. We normally use jurisdiction to mean the larger government in which a smaller one is found, e.g., British Columbia in

Re: [RDA-L] Government, jurisdiction, territorial authority?

2013-11-10 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
John, It is true that in RDA government and jurisdiction are used almost interchangeably in the sense of Gebietskoerperschaft, but perhaps with subtle differences. That paragraph in 11.2.2.5.4 gives an idea of what is meant by government, but it uses jurisdiction in another sense, which the

Re: [RDA-L] Government, jurisdiction, territorial authority?

2013-11-10 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac, Heidrun said: That confirms my suspicion that in many (though not all) cases, the best solution for the German version of RDA would be to translate both government and jurisdiction with the same German term Gebietskoerperschaft. This ignores the fact that government refers to those in

Re: [RDA-L] Qualifying access points

2013-11-06 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: If the place is part of the corporate body name, obviously a geographical qualifier is not needed for the name used as an entry. If removing that geographic name for a cross reference, should it not then be a qualifier at the end of the shorter form of the name? Exactly. And

Re: [RDA-L] Conference names without meeting, symposium a.s.o.

2013-11-06 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Heidrun Wiesenmüller Sent: 05 November 2013 19:33 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Conference names without meeting, symposium a.s.o. Reading up on the treatment of conferences under RDA, I got a bit worried when I came to the question of the name

Re: [RDA-L] Qualifying access points

2013-11-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Following this lively discussion, I find it harder and harder to make up my own mind... With persons, I believe that (as I've said before) using dates as a means of distinction doesn't really help a lot. And as long as the data from the authority record is easily accessible (which it is in

[RDA-L] Conference names without meeting, symposium a.s.o.

2013-11-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Reading up on the treatment of conferences under RDA, I got a bit worried when I came to the question of the name of a conference. There's a very good presentation http://www.loc.gov/aba/rda/source/special_topics_conferences.ppt which, among many other useful things, explains that the name of

Re: [RDA-L] Corporate bodies as creators: festschrift, corporate brochure a.s.o.

2013-10-29 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
John, Isn't a festschrift by definition a compilation of of works by different persons, families, or corporate bodies? As such it would fall under RDA 6.27.1.4 and the authorized access point would be the preferred title of the compilation, so no corporate main entry. Yes, but isn't that

Re: [RDA-L] Corporate bodies as creators: festschrift, corporate brochure a.s.o.

2013-10-29 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac, Hedrun said: Corporate bodies are considered to be the originator if A) they have prepared the work or B) they have initiated and edited the work What about prepared by Alpha Consulting for Beta Society? Often societies, government offices, and other corporate bodies, commission a

Re: [RDA-L] Corporate bodies as creators: festschrift, corporate brochure a.s.o.

2013-10-28 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: Our practice has changed drastically. For example, once Journal of the American Chemical Society would be been entered under the Society. Actually, it still is under the German rules. RAK has a rule which is similar (yet not identical) to RDA's idea of corporate bodies which are

Re: [RDA-L] Can corporate bodies only have one associated place?

2013-10-28 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Adam said: I think the instruction was written as it is because only one place may be used in a qualifier when needed to break a conflict. Yes, that seems very plausible. One gets the feeling that the person(s) who wrote the instruction were mainly thinking of access points and not of the

Re: [RDA-L] Corporate bodies as creators: festschrift, corporate brochure a.s.o.

2013-10-28 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Bernhard said: 28.10.2013 09:11, Heidrun Wiesenmüller: RAK has a rule which is similar (yet not identical) to RDA's idea of corporate bodies which are responsible for originating, issuing, or causing to be issued. The definition in RAK is: a corporate body which has either prepared

Re: [RDA-L] Can corporate bodies only have one associated place?

2013-10-28 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Richard, There are sub-elements for Location of Conference, Etc., and Location of Headquarters, but in 11.3.1.1 these are just examples (note the instruction says .e.g.). I did indeed notice the e.g. and found that odd as well. If location of conference and location of headquarters are just

Re: [RDA-L] Corporate bodies as creators: festschrift, corporate brochure a.s.o.

2013-10-28 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: In our practice, it is not enough to have produced the work, the work must be official. An art galley produces as exhibition catalogue, but the main entry is the artist, due to the reproductions of the artist's works being the prominent feature (336 still image precedes 336 text).

[RDA-L] Corporate bodies as creators: festschrift, corporate brochure a.s.o.

2013-10-27 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
The German rules for main entry under corporate bodies differ very much from the Anglo-American tradition, which makes it sometimes difficult for me to decide when RDA 19.2.1.1.1 (Corporate bodies considered to be creators) is to be applied. Would the following types of publications usually

[RDA-L] Can corporate bodies only have one associated place?

2013-10-27 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Can it really be that 11.3.3.3 allows only for the recording of *one* local place associated with a corporate body? The instruction reads: For other bodies, record the name of the local place that is commonly associated with the name of the body (...). Unlike 11.3.2.3 (Recording location of

Re: [RDA-L] title page verso in 500 note

2013-10-22 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Karen said, But, we are avoiding the Latin terms in RDA as often as poss., correct? Verso is a perfectly good English word, which you can find in any decent dictionary. Granted, it's a loan word from Latin. But so is title and page (which I assume were brought to the English language via

Re: [RDA-L] RDA revisions and the November 2013 meeting of the Joint Steering Committee

2013-10-21 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
John, I'm glad to hear you'll be blogging again from this year's JSC meeting. Thank you very much for taking the time, it is very much appreciated! Heidrun On 21.10.2013 19:11, JOHN C ATTIG wrote: The discussions have not yet taken place; the documents being announced are proposals and

Re: [RDA-L] Uniquesss of entry

2013-10-18 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
But there is another problem connected with AAPs in the form text strings: An AAP which is unique with respect to authority file A does not necessarily have to be unique with respect to authority file B as well. AAPs may work reasonably well as long as data stays within the bounds of one

Re: [RDA-L] Uniqueness of name access points

2013-10-18 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: Benjamin said: While I agree that the access point should not serve as a unique identifier for systems, there is still the need for users to distinguish easily between identically-named entities in an index. It seems to me Benjamin is *very* right about this. Too much of our

Re: [RDA-L] edition statements

2013-10-18 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Isn't that perhaps a case of RDA 2.5.6 Designation of a Named Revision of an Edition, i.e. could it be the updated edition of the first edition? If so, then I think the solution would be First edition, updated edition, because 2.5.6 comes after 2.5.2 according to D.1.1. As far as I know, 2.5.6

Re: [RDA-L] Titles of nobility

2013-10-17 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
. Steve McDonald steve.mcdon...@tufts.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Heidrun Wiesenmüller Sent: Wednesday, October

Re: [RDA-L] Titles of nobility

2013-10-17 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mary Mastraccio wrote: I hope that rather than changing your practice, the Anglo-American practice will change to your practice--as in having the dates in a separate field (046) rather than using a subfield $d. It has been suggested that the 100$a does not need to be unique because other

[RDA-L] Royalty: titles/states only in the language of the agency?

2013-10-17 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Working my way through the rules for nobility and royalty, there was one more thing which bothered me. For kings, etc., RDA 9.4.1.4.1 calls for recording the title and the name of the state in a language preferred by the agency. This fits in with the principle of using a well-established form

Re: [RDA-L] Titles of nobility

2013-10-17 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Kevin said: I agree about being sure we don't let current practices limit our design for the future. But if data is going to be tagged as being RDA, then it needs to conform to RDA 'Äsguidelines--which means that if authorized access points are being used, they need to be made unique.

[RDA-L] Titles of nobility

2013-10-16 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I find it difficult to reconcile the following two RDA instructions concerning titles of nobility: 9.4.1.3 (Recording Titles of Persons) says: Record titles as separate elements, as parts of access points, or as both. This also refers to titles of nobility (9.4.1.5). So 9.4.1.3 seems to allow

Re: [RDA-L] Titles of nobility

2013-10-16 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Stephen, As I see it, 9.4.1.3 is simply saying that sometimes you record it as a separate element, sometimes as part of an access point, and sometimes as both. It isn't saying you always have a choice about it. It directs you to 9.19.1.2 for specific instructions on recording as part of an

Re: [RDA-L] Titles of nobility

2013-10-16 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
at authorities.loc.gov http://authorities.loc.gov, so I am unsure. -Arthur Liu On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de mailto:wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de wrote: Stephen, As I see it, 9.4.1.3 is simply saying that sometimes you record

Re: [RDA-L] RDA 6.2.2.10

2013-10-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
, Kevin M Randall wrote: Heidrun Wiesenmüller wrote: So, I wonder: What is the function of the first sentence in 6.2.2.10? Should it be seen as the basic rule or rather as an exception for rare cases? I do think that the expectation behind RDA 6.2.2.10 is that most compilations published in modern

Re: [RDA-L] RDA 6.2.2.10

2013-10-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Adger Williams wrote: Actually, since these are collective titles for collections of works, I am not quite sure to what kind of entity Bernard's link would point. It wouldn't be to a single work record; it could be to some kind of collective entity or to a position in a genre/form index or

Re: [RDA-L] Language of Media type/carrier type/content type

2013-10-06 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Elhanan, The German-speaking community is still preparing for the implementation of RDA, and many decisions have yet to be made. So I cannot tell you for certain how we're going to do it. But we have a strong tradition of recording information about e.g. carrier in coded form. For display,

Re: [RDA-L] question about Publisher Name

2013-10-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I said (with respect to information about an imprint): I can think of at least three possible ways in which such an information can appear in the resources: #1: a statement like X, an imprint of Y #2: X on the title page, with an additional information, e.g. on the verso of the title page: X

Re: [RDA-L] Uniqueness of titles proper

2013-10-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: steven Arakawa posted: I understand that work titles can conflict and we would need to break the conflict in such cases ... Only if neither has an author main entry (or author as part of AAP as Kevin would say). Of course two different works should not have the same preferred

Re: [RDA-L] RDA 6.2.2.10 (was: alternative titles and variant access points)

2013-10-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Trying to follow this thread (which is a rather difficult one for somebody not cataloging in MARC), it occured to me that it touches upon something which has puzzled me for some time. Kevin wrote: Nature is called: Smith, John. Poems. Selections The Sea is called: Smith,

Re: [RDA-L] Uniqueness of titles proper

2013-10-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] on behalf of Heidrun Wiesenmüller [wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 06:49 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA

Re: [RDA-L] Names found in a non-preferred script (8.4 vs. 9.2.2.5.3 and 11.2.2.12)

2013-10-02 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Adam wrote: I recently taught at RDA at the National Library of Israel. They do not have a single preferred script, nor a single language of cataloging. In fact they have four: Hebrew, Arabic, roman, and Cyrillic. Depending on the script of the resource they are cataloging, they will use

Re: [RDA-L] Names found in a non-preferred script (8.4 vs. 9.2.2.5.3 and 11.2.2.12)

2013-10-01 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Steve said: I believe it is the difference between recording the name and recording the preferred name. The General Guidelines on Recording Names (RDA 8.5) makes it clear that it is talking about recording the name as it appears in the item. On the other hand, RDA 8.6 talks of recording the

[RDA-L] Names found in a non-preferred script (8.4 vs. 9.2.2.5.3 and 11.2.2.12)

2013-09-29 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I'm rather unsure about the relationship between the general rule for names found in a non-preferred script in chapter 8 and the corresponding more specific rules for persons and corporates bodies in chapters 9 and 11. The general rule in 8.4 says: Record names in the language and script in

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Lynn wrote: Is there a reason we can't do something like this for graphic novels and the like: 1 volume of illustrations ; some color or 138 pages of illustrations ; some color I haven't gone through the RDA rules in depth like many of you, but 3.4.12.1 says to give the number of units

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-20 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
at brazosport.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Heidrun Wiesenmüller Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:19 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Illustration

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-16 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: I would consider architectural drawings to be plans, not maps, regardless of scale. Maps usually depict the earth's surface. There are also maps of the moon, and of fictitious places, etc. Yes, but not all architectural drawings are plans (e.g. if the drawing shows the front of a

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-15 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
this a quite useful rule and would be sorry to see it gone under RDA. Heidrun On 14.08.2013 20:47, Heidrun Wiesenmüller wrote: I find it really difficult to understand what is meant by some of the terms for the various kinds of illustrations in 7.15 (in German cataloging, we only distinguish four

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-15 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Francis, If a resource consists wholly or predominantly of image content, then this content is no longer illustrative. That is, the images *are the primary content* in such a resource, so they no longer fulfill RDA's definition of illustrative content: Content designed to illustrate the

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-15 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Kathie wrote: I brought up this very issue last month in a thread titled Volumes containing only images. I only received one reply. (From Mac, pragmatic as always.) I'm not sure if URLs work to link threads in this format, but it is here:

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-15 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Francis, I believe RDA could be altered to make a clearer distinction between extent of carrier and extent of content. The proposal for an Extent of Expression element is one of the key components of a discussion paper (on machine-actionable data) to be brought before JSC later this year:

Re: [RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-15 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Greta said: I thought that if we decided something was a still image rather than text, that we were required to use the list of still image carriers for the extent at RDA 3.4.4.2. In that case, neither pages nor volume are in that list, so i think you are stuck with 300 photographs. Good

Re: [RDA-L] Coding Minimal level records as RDA?

2013-08-14 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Beth, I cannot help with the MARC coding, but I can try and explain 0.6.1: My colleagues and I are confused by the two subpoints (a and b) outlined in 0.6.1 which refer to choosing to apply various levels of description and/or detail. Do those options only apply when including “other

Re: [RDA-L] Unknown date

2013-08-14 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Gary, The rules which you need can be found in 1.9.2 (Supplied date). Under 1.9.2.4 (Probable range of years) there are examples like this: [between 1800 and 1899?] [between 1400 and 1600?] In 2.8.6.6, there is a reference to 1.9.2. Heidrun On 13.08.2013 21:19, Gary Oliver wrote: I have

[RDA-L] Illustration terms in 7.15.1.3

2013-08-14 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I find it really difficult to understand what is meant by some of the terms for the various kinds of illustrations in 7.15 (in German cataloging, we only distinguish four kinds of illustrations). The German RDA translation isn't much help either. So, could anybody help with my questions? 1.

Re: [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4

2013-08-10 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Marie-Chantal said: Perhaps the solution is to give rare/older materials cataloguers the possibility to record phrases such as « published by » as an optional addition ... Otherwise, the general instruction could simply ask cataloguers to record the name of the publisher, distributer, etc.

[RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4

2013-08-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
It beats me why the examples in 2.9.4.4 (and other similar rules, e.g. 2.10.4.4) are all capitalized, e.g.: Distributed by New York Graphic Society Sold by Longman I cannot find any justification for this in appendix A. It's certainly not mentioned among the elements where the first word must

Re: [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4

2013-08-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
. Kevin Roe Supervisor, Media Processing Fort Wayne Community Schools Fort Wayne IN 46802 *From:* Heidrun Wiesenmüller wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA *Sent:* Thursday, August 8, 2013 5:54 AM *Subject:* [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4 It beats me why the examples

Re: [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4

2013-08-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Jack, if there was a rule in RDA saying that the first word of every element must be capitalized, I would agree. But as far as I understand it, that's not how RDA works. The main rule of RDA concerning capitalitation is that you use upper and lower case just like you would do it *within* a

Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form

2013-08-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Marie-Chantal, I would give 1961, without using any square brackets. My reasoning goes as follows: You do not have to supply the date, because in fact you know the year. The only problem is that it is written on the source of information in some kind of shorthand. But when you think about

Re: [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4

2013-08-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: My reaction is, why is this phrase included, when function is covered by 264 2nd indicators? My understanding is that transcribing things like Distributed by ... is all about the so-called principle of representation: The data describing a resource should reflect the resource's

Re: [RDA-L] Capitalization in 2.9.4.4

2013-08-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
A, which takes English as the model language and covers all other languages only to the degree in which they differ from the model, is counterproductive for an international application of RDA. Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmüller M.A. Hochschule der Medien Fakultät

Re: [RDA-L] Date given in an incomplete form

2013-08-08 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: It does not matter to me, or patrons I suspect, whether one uses $c[19]61. $c[1961] or $c1961. It *is* important that the whole year be there, since one should not have to wait for a note to know whether it is 1761, 1861, or 1961. A little pragmatism is in order here! To

[RDA-L] Names of conferences as title proper, other title information or statement of responsiblity

2013-08-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I'm rather unsure about what the title and statement of responsibility area should look like if there is both a formal name of the conference and a specific title of a conference on the preferred source of information. Let's consider the following example (which I've translated from German to

Re: [RDA-L] Difference between Introduction and Preface

2013-08-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
And what about writer of afterword, while we're at it? I've just have such a case in front of me: A novel, where the translator has also provided notes and the said afterword. It gives information about the author and her work. What is here presented as an afterword might, in other cases,

Re: [RDA-L] Names of conferences as title proper, other title information or statement of responsiblity

2013-08-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
by statement of responsibility with a personal name and did not make the personal name the main entry or preferred entry. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:26 AM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de mailto:wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de wrote: I'm rather unsure about what the title

Re: [RDA-L] Names of conferences as title proper, other title information or statement of responsiblity

2013-08-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Gene, Without seeing the actual item, I would place it in the area of resp. Sorry, that was too much shorthand for a non-native speaker: Does resp here mean the same as depends? If so, on what - the layout? If you want to have a closer look, here's a scan of the title page:

Re: [RDA-L] Names of conferences as title proper, other title information or statement of responsiblity

2013-08-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
meant area of responsibility. The 245 line would read [title] / |c [name of conference] On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de mailto:wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de wrote: Gene, Without seeing the actual item, I would place

Re: [RDA-L] Names of conferences as title proper, other title information or statement of responsiblity

2013-08-05 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Names of conferences as title proper, other title information or statement of responsiblity I meant area of responsibility. The 245 line would read [title] / |c [name of conference] On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller wiesenmuel

[RDA-L] RDA 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title

2013-07-27 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Could anybody please explain to me the second part of 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title? I'm quite at a loss here. If the sources of information identifying the individual parts are being treated as a collective source of information for the resource as a whole (see 2.1.2), record

Re: [RDA-L] RDA 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title

2013-07-27 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Of Heidrun Wiesenmüller [wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de] Sent: July-27-13 5:54 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] RDA 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title Could anybody please explain to me the second part of 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title? I'm quite at a loss here

Re: [RDA-L] RDA 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title

2013-07-27 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Thomas Brenndorfer said: In 2.4.1.6, multiple statements of responsibility are linked to the corresponding title, edition, or series information. RDA D.1.2.2 prescribes semicolons to separate these statement of responsibility elements. So once the individual titles proper are recorded for

Re: [RDA-L] RDA 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title

2013-07-27 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: RDA gives the option, in the absence of a collective title, of creating one (with the contents in a note), or of using the titles of the contents. I strongly urge EURIG to have a policy statement to always supply a title for the sake of consistency in describing the same resource;

Re: [RDA-L] RDA 2.3.2.9 Resource lacking a collective title

2013-07-27 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac, Heidrun said: I don't think we'll end up with made-up titles, though. It wouldn't be in accordance with our cataloging tradition ... How is it possible to catalogue without made up titles? How would you catalogue realia for example? I'm sorry, I meant in this case. The German RAK

[RDA-L] 2.2.3.1 Preferred sources of information in different languages or scripts

2013-07-22 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I may (as usual) simply worry too much about the rules, but I'm wondering about bilinguial dictionaries with separate facing title pages in two languages. Which of these two title pages should be used as the preferred source of information? 2.2.3.1 a) to d) aren't applicable, so we're left

Re: [RDA-L] 2.2.3.1 Preferred sources of information in different languages or scripts

2013-07-22 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Mac said: We would treat this the same way we treat any title page which extends over two pages. often happens with chilren's books. Right, I see that this can be done, although it's perhaps a bit of a stretch in the light of the existence of 2.2.3.1. But if you treat the two facing title

Re: [RDA-L] 2.2.3.1 Preferred sources of information in different languages or scripts

2013-07-22 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Kevin M Randall wrote: If the resource is one in which pages are read left to right, then I would probably take the one on the left-hand side as the preferred source. But seeing as the sequence of the two pages is probably arbitrary, I would not object to someone just deciding that none of

[RDA-L] Change to option in 2.4.1.5 (Statement of responsibility naming more than one person, etc.)

2013-07-15 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Has everybody noticed the change to the option in 2.4.1.5 (Statement of responsibility naming more than one person, etc.) in the July update? It went over the fast track, so it's not marked in the Toolkit and also doesn't appear in the update history. The option used to read omit *all* but

Re: [RDA-L] Recording (large print) in the 300

2013-07-07 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Kristen, my understanding is that RDA 3.13.1.3 only tells us that we can record the font size of resources for persons with visual impairments in this element, and how we should do it if we choose to. But font size is no core element, so it is not obligatory to record it. There is also no

Re: [RDA-L] Translated from notes and code for original language

2013-07-02 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
[RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] on behalf of Heidrun Wiesenmüller [wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de] *Sent:* Monday, July 01, 2013 3:01 PM *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] Translated from notes and code for original language Bob, Translated from the French

Re: [RDA-L] Translated from notes and code for original language

2013-07-01 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Bob, Translated from the French is an unstructured description of the relationship of the resource to another expression (though it's not a very specific description) and is covered by RDA 24.4.3. See also the example at 26.1.1.3 The English edition of a Spanish publication, which is also

Re: [RDA-L] Translated from notes and code for original language

2013-06-30 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
that the corresponding RDA instruction number is N/A. So I have to say that I do not know :) Have a great weekend, Joan Wang On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Heidrun Wiesenmüller wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de mailto:wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de wrote

[RDA-L] Publication date including month or exact date: examples?

2013-06-30 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
In 2.8.6.3 (Recording date of publication) there is an example May 2000. This shows that not only the year, but also the month and presumably even the exact date of publication is to be recorded in this element, if it is given in the source of information. I'd like to see some real live

[RDA-L] Translated from notes and code for original language

2013-06-28 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
I wonder how a note like Translated from the French does fit in with RDA, in a composite description scenario. The same goes for codes in MARC 041 $h giving information about the original language, e.g.: 041 1# $a eng $h fre (text in English, translated from French) The only possible RDA

[RDA-L] Translated from notes and code for original language

2013-06-28 Thread Heidrun Wiesenmüller
Sorry, I pushed the wrong button just now - here's the complete text of the mail: -- I wonder how a note like Translated from the French does fit in with RDA, in a composite description scenario. The same goes for codes in MARC 041 $h giving information about the original

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