[biofuel] France and legislation
Hi, I'm new to this group and would like to know if there's any french people over here who know if cooking your own fuel is legal. I ask that since you can't produce your own electricity in France (you have to sell it to the state company instead). Also, if any french has tips on where to buy cheap local chemicals/dessicants, I'd be glad to hear from them. Last thing, has anyone tried the foolproof method (by Aleks Kac) and replaced the methanol with ethanol ? What are the proportions relatively to the volume of oil/fat ? -- Jrme Mathevet Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Palo Alto Biofuel
Hello, I'm new to this group so I apologize if this topic has been talked about in months past. In searching around on the web, I noticed some announcements of a Bio-diesel project for the city of Palo Alto, similar to the one in Berkeley. Does any one know the status of this project? Also, I saw a posting from last year regarding a biofuel class in Palo Alto. I'm very interested knowing how this has progressed and whether it has become an active thing or not. Thanks, Roland Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Brian, The Fort-Paks from www.usplastics.com have caps which can be plumbed with 3/4 fittings. I don't see the caps by themselves on the website, but if you called I imagine they would sell you some without the carboy. Also, Sun West Container in Tucson (and Phoenix) sells the same caps. They don't have online purchasing, but you could give them a call at 520-623-1516 or 1-800-638-1516. Regards, brian --- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
Ok, so you got a fancy dancy stove that uses biodiesel and we are now all drooling, so, do you also have a contact adress/website where we can get one too? Please? Ta! Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html This is a cheap, simple, safe and very effective biodiesel processing set-up that you can easily build yourself. It's easy to make high-quality biodiesel this way. We've used 90-litre kerosene water-heater tanks, but any similar or bigger tank with a tight-fitting removable lid would do... Full details, photos, how to use, etc. Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Locating Tight Head containers for Methoxide
In the US it doesn't seem to be a problem, whereas elewhere it does not seem to be THAT simple. Here are some places to try in the US (useless to me but maybe good for you) :) Product A. http://www.generalcontainer.com/displayCategory.asp?cat=3subcat=12 I'd love to get my hands on these: http://www.containerlogix.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/25_38_45 /products_id/159 5gal tight head http://www.paramountcan.com/packaging.html Natural is better than white as you can see if the Mthoxide has disolved completely http://www.freundcontainer.com/plastic/pails/small_closed_head.html Scroll down http://www.ba-industrial.com/ppails.htm and I am adding this one to show ICB's, a 200gal plus HDPE cube already plumbed for a large fitting good for storage of BD or water that is gravity fed from rain water collection for sinks and toilets ect... in a rural setting.Might also be good for irrigation :) http://www.lennoxdrum.com/html/products___services.html Have a nice day. Luc PS: G-Mark also has other contacts at the bottom of her Appleseed processor page http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] The Economy of Wash Water Recycling
I am certainly no Chemist but know that there are many chemistry experts out there. I was wondering if there is something that can be added to the wash water that would attract the contaminants? PeterR Canberra OZ -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2004 2:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] The Economy of Wash Water Recycling Check out Todd Swearingen's great explanation of why it's a good idea to recycle the water when washing biodiesel and how it works. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_wash.html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_wash.html The Economy of Wash Water Recycling Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129kd0dh6/M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1087100624/A=2164330/R=0/SIG=11eamf8g4/*http:/www.n etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183350 click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=groups/S= :HM/A=2164330/rand=191896425 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Service. IMPORTANT: Notice to be read with this E-mail 1. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. 2. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for the use of the intended recipient. 3. If you are not the intended recipient, please: contact the sender by return e-mail, to notify the misdirection; do not copy, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on this e-mail; and delete and destroy all copies of this e-mail. 4. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and are not a statement of Australian Government policy unless otherwise stated. 5. Any electronic address published in this message is not to be taken as a conspicuous publication of that electronic address. The Department of Veterans' Affairs does not consent to the receipt of commercial electronic messages as that term is defined in the Spam Act 2003. 6. If you do not wish to receive further emails of this type from the Department of Veterans' Affairs, please forward your reply to this message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'Unsubscribe' in the subject line. 7. Finally, please do not remove this notice, so that any other readers are aware of these restrictions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Prefab Possessor
Hi all, Another Newbe to all of this. I am a sheet metal journeyman and
at the shop where I work does a lot of custom stainless steal duct work
for hospitals and industry that needs it's ability to with stand
corrosive fumes. The many shapes and sizes that we come up with for these
jobs could be implemented into a processor. If the stainless is not a
good choice copper or aluminum can be substituted for it although I would
think that the aluminum might not be a good choice due to the acids but
since I am not familiar to the stuff used to make BD yet this might be a
good one to use?? I would like to make one for myself and would consider
making a few for you good folks out here if any are interested? I see
that the pre made possessors do not have a good rep. so with your help
maybe we can change this. I read that a vassal that is tall and narrow is
better then one that is short and wide. These would be more or less a
custom item built to a size( height circumference) that the majority of
you think would be best. This can have a funnel type bottom if that is
appropriate and have some kind of bulk head type of lid. Any and all
input would be greatly appreciated by me. I am looking for a 40 gal. to
50 gal. per batch out put for myself but would consider other sizes as
well. So now is a time for all of you who wish they can find the correct
shape and size if you could have one made to order. We can weld on the
hose connections and add stuff like the pre heaters so for those of you
who have the wisdom for a reasonable state of the art (Back yard)
personal processor please give me your dimensions and locations and see
if this can work for us. If I can get this down to a reasonable cost to
make I will draw up the plans and hand them out and you can have a local
shop make one for you Or maybe I can and have it sent out to you. Is any
one up to this??? Thanks, {:-) Brian K.
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Re: [biofuel] Re: Moving
Good luck on your new digs.I hope you find them inspiring and that they bend to your will Rico Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many thanks for your good wishes, Luc, Brian, Jorge and all. Especially since I was expecting a thumping for neglecting the list maintenance. But we got it all installed and set up last night without any problems or delays, not like last time (18 months ago) when we were offline for most of a week. May your move be pleasant, and without incident. May the birds greet you with cheer. Fresh mountain air, good to keep the cobwebs out of the mind :) Luc Thankyou! Yes, all that and more - very fresh air, crisp and clean, birds everywhere, really peaceful and quiet. Visitors said that about our last place, but there's no comparison, this is much better. It's pretty round here. I'm sitting at my desk with the screens open and all I can see is wild green stuff, starting 10 feet away, beyond that forested slopes and blue sky. It's great! The mind is sort of hopelessly cobwebbed beyond all remedy but the spirit soars. On the other hand the wild boar are a problem, so are the deer, if you grow stuff, and we've seen a few weasels, the chicken hutch (the end bit of one of the sheds) is currently being turned into Midori's version of Fort Chicken. The chooks have got a whole field to run on during the day though. Sounds like a positivie move. Hope all goes well. I'm hoping I get to move somewhere more mountainous soon. Brian It's only about an hour away, so no need for an everything-one-time move, much easier. Still a lot of chaos and a lot of stuff yet to be moved, but the rest is quite easy. We were cooking on biodiesel last night and this morning because the gasman messed up, but he's here now connecting it all. We'll still use the biodiesel though, and we'll replace the gas with biogas eventually anyway. Lots of work to do getting the land in condition for crops - we've got a tractor and a rotavator, both diesels (and a few other diesels, including an old 250cc Yanmar, interesting), and there's a few tons of compost to be brought from the old place and so on. I'd like to get some pigs to do the ploughing, they're much better (and you can't make biogas with tractor-manure, nor do tractors make good bacon). Mountains though, yes - Mountains Are Good For You. A couple of years in Holland convinced me of that, and I was born on one after all. I do notice though that the more mountainous we get the less we use our bicycles. Moving? I know what you meanI move from the states to Honduras 10 years ago I'm a lot of stuff get lost,broken or just missing...I hope it won't be your case...happy moving!!! Jorge Thankyou Jorge, we should be okay, I don't think we'll lose anything this time, touch wood. We're quite good at this, we seem to do it about once a year, which doesn't make it any less of a PITA. Best wishes Keith --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all Apologies in advance... We're likely to be somewhat chaotic over the next few days or so, or rather even more chaotic - we're moving house. Actually we're moving not only house but also Journey to Forever, the complete catastrophe, and all the fish. Well, chickens and so on anyway, plus all ongoing projects, gear, large dead-tree library, loads of TEJ (Totally Essential Junk without which life is hardly possible), etc. Especially etc. So list admin. is likely to be even more all over the place than usual. We're going here, if you're interested: another 100-year-old farmhouse up in the mountains, but in much better condition than this unfixably decrepit old wreck we're in now. Better place all round, more land too. http://journeytoforever.org/tamba.jpg Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
linden duncan wrote: The advantage I see to using the inline or Appleseed method would be that once you prepare your addition, you would not have to touch it again. Just as simple and safer. I'm not quite sure what you mean - addition means the methoxide or acid or whatever you're adding? If so, I can't agree with you. We don't touch it again, we never touch it at all. Did you look at our processor page? I don't think so, somehow. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor You have to change caps maybe, that's all, and you'll have to do that too with the inline method. You think that's safer and simpler? Actually, I don't think so. I don't want to argue about this, I said I'm sure either way will do, I'm not knocking the inline method at all, but I'm not going to be put in the wrong either, for the wrong reasons. These are some things Girl Mark has said about it in the past: Use a valve on your methoxide delivery tubing so that you can time the methoxide delivery into the plumbing before the pump intake such that it matches the turnover rate of your tank so it mixes gradually and evenly. Our way is simpler than that, no timing required. And this: Here's one other dangerous variable that most people are unaware of: water in oil when making biodiesel What's that , you say? water as a fire hazard? Here's how it happens: If you pump-mix methoxide with wet oil, there is a slight danger of localised boiling of methanol (!) IF the ratios of methoxide to wet oil is high. This inproper ratio only happens if your methoxide inlet to the pump is large compared to the oil inlet, or if any valves in the two lines (oil and methoxide) are open to the wrong ratio (ie oil mostly closed down and methoxide wide open). For example, a 3/4 piece of tubing for methoxide delivery going into a pump along with a 3/4 inch oil inlet tube is what I consider a high ratio. (I now use 3/8 inch methoxide tubing and 3/4 oil, with a valve on the methoxide tube, which is only opened slightly) What happens is this: the lye in the methoxide can produce heat when it hits water (from the oil). Normally if your ratios are correct, we're not using enough lye (and there should'nt be enough water) to cause this to raise the temperature in a whole tank of (even very wet) oil. But in a pump-mix situation with incorrect tubing ratios, there is momentarily a situation in the pump plumbing where the oil/water quantity is low and the methanol/lye quantity is high- which could get hot enough to surpass the boiling point of methanol (148F/60C). If your tank isn't a closed system (and plastic conical tanks and their 'manhole' covers are not a closed system!) then the methanol vapors will boil out of your tank, and the tank will pressurise (yet another reason for avoiding plastic as a mixing tank) which means that any normally invisible leaks will spray methanol-containing hot oil/biodiesel out of the tank. You may also notice a bunch of soap being made- there'll be odd gelling if the oil/ biodiesel/methanol makes it's way out of the tank! I don't think people are very aware of this problem. Pump mixing is absolutely, hands-down superior to stirred tank mixing- and it's far easier to build a sealed system with a pump rather than a stirred tank- but you have to have the methoxide delivery be slow, both for the safety reasons above and to keep the production of soap down. I think peopel sometimes rush to mix in their methoxide (because after that step there's no more operator involvement needed) but there are a few good reasons to slow down methoxide delivery- 1. preventing the overpressure situaiton above 2. not making a bunch of soap (which happens in the above situaion because there's too much lye for the amount of oil in the pipe) and 3. making sure you get a very, very good initial mix of reactants, which is easier to control in the pump ratios rather than hoping that it'll all mix through circulation later on. not using wet oil is of course also important. Simple and safe if you know what you're doing, eh? Did you know that? No such problems when you add it in the top - but do have a look at how it's done first this time before you argue about it, if you're going to argue about it. Anyway, just dewater the oil, you might think, no problem. Yes, in an ideal world, but that might not be so simple either. With some oils getting ALL the water out might not be too easy, or might not even be possible. But the methoxide will find it there alright, and if you haven't got your plumbng rigged right you could have problems. Best wishes Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We use mild air-pressure to pump the methoxide from the carboy into a valve in the top of the processor, quite slowly. Maybe the way the oil inlet from the pump to the top of the processor is arranged also has something to do with
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
Ok, so you got a fancy dancy stove that uses biodiesel and we are now all drooling, so, do you also have a contact adress/website where we can get one too? Please? Ta! Luc :-) Drool away, see if I care! Heh! But you're wrong, it's NOT fancy dancy, it's common-or-garden, that's the whole point. Ramjee told me the price in India was US$8 equiv. We could get them here in Japan, which exports them, but the price was $100-$120, and that for a much smaller one, sort of camping style, a toy, not kitchen style. It seems the ones they export to 3rd World countries they don't supply on the domestic market, as so often with Japanese companies, very frustrating. The main reason we needed it was because so many people from 3rd World countries have asked us for a solution for using locally-produced biofuels, ie produced at village-level, in kerosene cookers. We're much interested in this subject of 3rd World cooking, there's quite a lot about it on our website. (In fact we're much more interested in this than in helping people in the rich countries to make biodiesel.) Solar box cookers are one solution: http://journeytoforever.org/sc.html Solar box cookers: Journey to Forever - how free solar energy is saving lives, saving trees, fighting poverty and hunger in the Third World, how to make a solar box cooker, school project Improved woodstoves are another: http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html Wood fires that fit - Appropriate technology http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html Cookstove for schools: Journey to Forever Biogas is another. But there isn't one single complete solution. There's still a lot of basic development work to be done on improved woodstoves, especially on the IDD woodgas variety, one of the more promising types. For instance, this was reported in New Scientist: A new kind of cooking stove for Kenya is an example. Some Englishmen invented a stove that could be made of local clay and which was much more economical of wood than what had been used. They went to Kenya and persuaded the locals to build 250 of them over several years. At the same time a kerosene stove made in Japan was introduced and 10,000 were sold through ordinary commercial channels. The kerosene stove was not made locally, and the fuel had to be imported. A solar cooker some Americans attempted to introduce in Lesotho was even more of a flop. In both cases, it wasn't so much that the cookers were a flop, the projects trying to introduce them were. Anyway, since so many 3rd World people have demonstrated a preference for kero stoves, one (of several) approaches is never mind the stoves, how to substitute for the fuel? Basically, two problems, and two possibilities. The problems are two kinds of stoves (at least) - pressure stoves (roarers) and wick stoves. The two main possibilities are biodiesel and SVO. Biodiesel is technically the better option, or at least the easier one. It's said biodiesel won't travel up a wick, but it will, if you get the wick right, and the level of fuel in the reservoir relative to the wick right too. So will SVO, though it's not as easy and it helps to pre-heat it. Todd's talked of a donut-shaped affair, which confirms what we've been working on too. But first we needed to know whether biodiesel will burn in an ordinary, generic-type, kero pressure stove without modification. Thanks to Ramjee, we can say the answer is an unqualified Yes. Great news! Now, how to get it to burn SVO? Next problem, followed by developing stoves or adaptations to existing stoves for burning biodiesel and/or SVO in wick stoves. On the ground, biodiesel is not the best solution - SVO will always be more easily available at village-level than biodiesel will be. On the other hand, there are many good reasons for starting biodiesel projects, or biodiesel-SVO projects, in villages, with the usual provisos of all development projects - see our Community development pages: http://journeytoforever.org/community.html Community development: Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/community2.html Community development - poverty and hunger: Journey to Forever Hence our fancy dancy stove that uses biodiesel, Luc. But so what, eh? - where can you buy one? These stoves below are sold in the US, and advertised as also burning diesel fuel, they'll certainly burn biodiesel very happily. I'm not sure offhand just who sells them there, you'll have to search a bit. No use writing to Lovson - well, you can try, but I couldn't get a response from them: http://www.lovson.com/lightengineering.html Brass Stoves,Petromax Lantern Exporters,Kerosene Stoves India,Stoves,Kerosene Pressure Lantern,Indian Stoves,Kerosene Lantern,Brass Stoves,Petromax Stoves Exporters,India That Petromax Lantern by the way, is a generic Petromax-type lantern, not a genuine Petromax. BriteLyt makes those (and they do work on biodiesel, and on ethanol). http://www.britelyt.com/
RE: [biofuel] The Economy of Wash Water Recycling
Hello Peter I am certainly no Chemist but know that there are many chemistry experts out there. I was wondering if there is something that can be added to the wash water that would attract the contaminants? I think there are too many different types of contaminants for that - excess methanol, residual lye, soaps, various types of glycerine and glycerides. Anyway, since washing works very well, and the amount of water used is easily reduced and can easily be cleaned after use, one would question the need for adding an extra component that you probably couldn't provide yourself and would have to keep buying. Best wishes Keith PeterR Canberra OZ -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2004 2:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] The Economy of Wash Water Recycling Check out Todd Swearingen's great explanation of why it's a good idea to recycle the water when washing biodiesel and how it works. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_wash.html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_wash.html The Economy of Wash Water Recycling Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches
Hello. I am just starting in the production of my own biodiesel. I have made several 1 liter test batches, but I'm not sure how to wash them. I can't find anything online particular to small batches, but I have found sources that say bubblewashing will be too violent and cause emulsification. Will someone share a success story? Thank you, Brian __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: stanadyne pump compatability
Hey Keith, Is there any possible way to have solution suggestions for the injectors, like you have for the causes? It would be a nice checklist. :) James On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Those pumps die anyway. Biodiesel isn't a problem with them. The Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) still make cautious noises about biodiesel but they're supportive nonetheless. They insist on standard-spec fuel at minimum, but it's easy to make standard-spec biodiesel or better. Here's their statement on biodiesel quality: Summary -- html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf For SVO/WVO the same reservations apply to Stanadyne pumps as to Lucas-CAV - rotary pumps, not good. Elsbett says: We do not suggest to modify engines equipped with distributor-type injection pumps manufactured by Delphi, Lucas, CAV, Stanadyne and Roto-Diesel. There's more about this at Darren Hill's site: http://www.vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm Vegburner Meanwhile there've been furious denials from Greasel and probably others - nothing wrong with rotary pumps and SVO, they say, it's just rumors, misinformation. Ho-hum. Ed Beggs of Neoteric reported an initial failure (old pump) and no problems with the rebuilt replacement: Starting into a project with an old highly worn pump - well, sure, anything can happen... these pumps fail daily to begin with, on diesel fuel... Throw in some inferior WVO that should have been made into biodiesel, and you are adding to the potential for problems, IMO. On the other hand, with a good pump in good shape, and good WVO or SVO, well heated and free of water and contaminants.. no problems. Others agree with that, though it's also said that the Stanadyne pumps can't take too much heat either, maybe 180 deg F max. Not too little, not too much. It's the same with the Lucas - it can be done but it has to be done well, and there's still a shortage of long-term results, there are some, but not enough. Once again, it's the difference between biodiesel and SVO. Biodiesel - any diesel will do. SVO - maybe any diesel, but there's a lot more to consider, if you're just going to chuck it in and go then be prepared for problems. Best Keith to elaborate on that a little (since I own one of these vehicles) Elsbett has recommended not converting vehicles equipped with Stanodyne pumps to SVO. (this came from Aleksander Noack directly, not sure if it's on their website or not) we had a LOT of failures (ie 7 or 8 now?) with these pumps (on Fords and Chevy trucks) in the Bay Area on SVO, none on biodiesel. Of course lots of other people have also run them successfully on SVO, again, no pump failures reported anywhere on biodiesel. It looks like the failures in our area were mostly on vehicles which weren't getting sufficient heating on the WVO side. These folks mostly ran homemade or experimental conversions, and the failures (sized pump) occured quite early in the conversion's life. The several of these cases that I looked into, didn't do adequate temperature monitoring , so it is possible that the temps weren't up to par. In any case it seems a strong case to be extra careful with SVO in these vehicles. One of them seized his pump and then seized the newly rebuilt replacement almost immediately. When he called the rebuild company about it the second time, they asked if he was using biodiesel- they'd apparently gotten a few back from various people already. I imagine that the SVO'ers who were trying to get the company to accept their seized pumps as cores were probably doing what my friends did- and probably weren't quite straight with the co. as to what fuel they were using, and had probably told that company it was biodiesel (since that sounds less bad than hacking into your fuel system, from a fuel injection equipment manufacturers' perspective. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not recommended for SVO/WVO use, fine with biodiesel. Best Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best I can tell the pump in my vehicle is a distributor type Stanadyne pump. If I am wrong on that point, someone please correct me! From what I remember, the fuel injector pump on the 5.7, 6.2 and 6.5 is a Roosa Master. I don't know why distributor type fuel injection pumps would have problems on biodiesel, though I imagine the close tolerances of such a device might cause problems with WVO after it had cooled down. But that would simply entail running biodiesel or standard diesel through the pump for a few moments to clean out the hot WVO before shutting down, would it not? Once, when I was seriously looking at a 6.5 turbo diesel, I contacted Ed Beggs about a
[biofuel] Pentagon's Weather Nightmare
The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare Hi all, I guess with the release of The Day After Tomorrow there has been a lot more buzz about global warming. Here is an interesting, timely article regards CLIMATE COLLAPSE The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,582584,00.h tml Tomorrow-Energy News Group Daily Alternative Energy News and Resources Added Information about the future world energy mix practical alternative energy options: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches
I made a 1 liter batch last week and I did it this way: i mix 200ml.of methanol with a 3 o 4 grams of lye..in my case was a granular lye..is so litlle that i measured with a teaspoon...about 3/4 of the teaspoon.i put it in the blender..and old kitchen blender and shake it.then after is disolved add 1 liter of oil(new in my case) turn the blender on and wow...like milkshake5 minutes and put it in a container ,let it there overnite and next morning get the biodiesel (the top) and i just put it in a jar and add water to it and let it there for 8 hours then get the biodiesel out it should be like lemon juice at this point at the top and a soupy water in the botton,repeat it again and less foamy and cleaner biodiesel.then a got a kitchen pot..and old one and put it in a stove outside..let it boil and a cleaner biodiesel i goti used it allready...i poured it in my 96 gasoline izuzu Rodeo as additive and tomorrow I'll be making more. - Original Message - From: Brian C. To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches Hello. I am just starting in the production of my own biodiesel. I have made several 1 liter test batches, but I'm not sure how to wash them. I can't find anything online particular to small batches, but I have found sources that say bubblewashing will be too violent and cause emulsification. Will someone share a success story? Thank you, Brian __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for non-vented carboys? James On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Brian wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=860508098] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: stanadyne pump compatability
Hey Keith, Is there any possible way to have solution suggestions for the injectors, like you have for the causes? It would be a nice checklist. :) James No doubt it would James, but it won't be coming from me. If anyone else has the knowledge and inclination to compile such a list, perhaps collectively, well that's what the lists's for, please go ahead, and I'll upload it to JtF if that seems like a good idea to one and all. Best wishes Keith On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Those pumps die anyway. Biodiesel isn't a problem with them. The Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) still make cautious noises about biodiesel but they're supportive nonetheless. They insist on standard-spec fuel at minimum, but it's easy to make standard-spec biodiesel or better. Here's their statement on biodiesel quality: Summary -- html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf For SVO/WVO the same reservations apply to Stanadyne pumps as to Lucas-CAV - rotary pumps, not good. Elsbett says: We do not suggest to modify engines equipped with distributor-type injection pumps manufactured by Delphi, Lucas, CAV, Stanadyne and Roto-Diesel. There's more about this at Darren Hill's site: http://www.vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm Vegburner Meanwhile there've been furious denials from Greasel and probably others - nothing wrong with rotary pumps and SVO, they say, it's just rumors, misinformation. Ho-hum. Ed Beggs of Neoteric reported an initial failure (old pump) and no problems with the rebuilt replacement: Starting into a project with an old highly worn pump - well, sure, anything can happen... these pumps fail daily to begin with, on diesel fuel... Throw in some inferior WVO that should have been made into biodiesel, and you are adding to the potential for problems, IMO. On the other hand, with a good pump in good shape, and good WVO or SVO, well heated and free of water and contaminants.. no problems. Others agree with that, though it's also said that the Stanadyne pumps can't take too much heat either, maybe 180 deg F max. Not too little, not too much. It's the same with the Lucas - it can be done but it has to be done well, and there's still a shortage of long-term results, there are some, but not enough. Once again, it's the difference between biodiesel and SVO. Biodiesel - any diesel will do. SVO - maybe any diesel, but there's a lot more to consider, if you're just going to chuck it in and go then be prepared for problems. Best Keith to elaborate on that a little (since I own one of these vehicles) Elsbett has recommended not converting vehicles equipped with Stanodyne pumps to SVO. (this came from Aleksander Noack directly, not sure if it's on their website or not) we had a LOT of failures (ie 7 or 8 now?) with these pumps (on Fords and Chevy trucks) in the Bay Area on SVO, none on biodiesel. Of course lots of other people have also run them successfully on SVO, again, no pump failures reported anywhere on biodiesel. It looks like the failures in our area were mostly on vehicles which weren't getting sufficient heating on the WVO side. These folks mostly ran homemade or experimental conversions, and the failures (sized pump) occured quite early in the conversion's life. The several of these cases that I looked into, didn't do adequate temperature monitoring , so it is possible that the temps weren't up to par. In any case it seems a strong case to be extra careful with SVO in these vehicles. One of them seized his pump and then seized the newly rebuilt replacement almost immediately. When he called the rebuild company about it the second time, they asked if he was using biodiesel- they'd apparently gotten a few back from various people already. I imagine that the SVO'ers who were trying to get the company to accept their seized pumps as cores were probably doing what my friends did- and probably weren't quite straight with the co. as to what fuel they were using, and had probably told that company it was biodiesel (since that sounds less bad than hacking into your fuel system, from a fuel injection equipment manufacturers' perspective. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not recommended for SVO/WVO use, fine with biodiesel. Best Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best I can tell the pump in my vehicle is a distributor type Stanadyne pump. If I am wrong on that point, someone please correct me! From what I remember, the fuel injector pump on the 5.7, 6.2 and 6.5 is a Roosa Master. I don't know why distributor type fuel injection pumps would have problems on
Re: [biofuel] Re: Moving
Good luck on your new digs.I hope you find them inspiring and that they bend to your will Rico Thankyou Rico - other way round though, it's us who'll bend to its will. Man's work with nature that furthers nature's aims is the work that rewards him the best, says the I Ching, very wisely. However, discerning just what nature's aims might be isn't always so simple. It needs an empty mind. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many thanks for your good wishes, Luc, Brian, Jorge and all. Especially since I was expecting a thumping for neglecting the list maintenance. But we got it all installed and set up last night without any problems or delays, not like last time (18 months ago) when we were offline for most of a week. May your move be pleasant, and without incident. May the birds greet you with cheer. Fresh mountain air, good to keep the cobwebs out of the mind :) Luc Thankyou! Yes, all that and more - very fresh air, crisp and clean, birds everywhere, really peaceful and quiet. Visitors said that about our last place, but there's no comparison, this is much better. It's pretty round here. I'm sitting at my desk with the screens open and all I can see is wild green stuff, starting 10 feet away, beyond that forested slopes and blue sky. It's great! The mind is sort of hopelessly cobwebbed beyond all remedy but the spirit soars. On the other hand the wild boar are a problem, so are the deer, if you grow stuff, and we've seen a few weasels, the chicken hutch (the end bit of one of the sheds) is currently being turned into Midori's version of Fort Chicken. The chooks have got a whole field to run on during the day though. Sounds like a positivie move. Hope all goes well. I'm hoping I get to move somewhere more mountainous soon. Brian It's only about an hour away, so no need for an everything-one-time move, much easier. Still a lot of chaos and a lot of stuff yet to be moved, but the rest is quite easy. We were cooking on biodiesel last night and this morning because the gasman messed up, but he's here now connecting it all. We'll still use the biodiesel though, and we'll replace the gas with biogas eventually anyway. Lots of work to do getting the land in condition for crops - we've got a tractor and a rotavator, both diesels (and a few other diesels, including an old 250cc Yanmar, interesting), and there's a few tons of compost to be brought from the old place and so on. I'd like to get some pigs to do the ploughing, they're much better (and you can't make biogas with tractor-manure, nor do tractors make good bacon). Mountains though, yes - Mountains Are Good For You. A couple of years in Holland convinced me of that, and I was born on one after all. I do notice though that the more mountainous we get the less we use our bicycles. Moving? I know what you meanI move from the states to Honduras 10 years ago I'm a lot of stuff get lost,broken or just missing...I hope it won't be your case...happy moving!!! Jorge Thankyou Jorge, we should be okay, I don't think we'll lose anything this time, touch wood. We're quite good at this, we seem to do it about once a year, which doesn't make it any less of a PITA. Best wishes Keith --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all Apologies in advance... We're likely to be somewhat chaotic over the next few days or so, or rather even more chaotic - we're moving house. Actually we're moving not only house but also Journey to Forever, the complete catastrophe, and all the fish. Well, chickens and so on anyway, plus all ongoing projects, gear, large dead-tree library, loads of TEJ (Totally Essential Junk without which life is hardly possible), etc. Especially etc. So list admin. is likely to be even more all over the place than usual. We're going here, if you're interested: another 100-year-old farmhouse up in the mountains, but in much better condition than this unfixably decrepit old wreck we're in now. Better place all round, more land too. http://journeytoforever.org/tamba.jpg Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your
Re: [biofuel] Best Processer
Dear Bob Dear Keith- Wow! Just what I needed to hear. :-) That's good! We do try... I've got a friend of mine pretty fired up about producing larger quantities for his many gearhead friends and local farmers, in larger quantities. Such as? This guy makes his own hot rods, so I think, if I can get him the right info, we will be totally able to get this baby to fly. Any info on plans for larger-capacity, self-made systems. We don't do plans. Well, there's one excellent set of real genuine plans in the boiler, but not quite ready yet, though I can report that progress is being made. This is a great processor, complete design specs, complete blueprints that you can take to an engineering shop and say Make it. The plans are finished but the text isn't. That's not our work, we can't do stuff like that, professional. That aside, I guess a reason we don't do plans is that everyone's needs are different, and so are their resources, especially when it comes to critically important stuff like junk. So what we have at our site is a variety of different models that can be followed and adapted according to what you want and what you've got. Whatever fits best and works well. Part of what I said before about empowerment. Anyway, you might have a look at this scheme of Todd's for an 833 Gallon Per Day Batch Plant: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor9.html I think all this stuff is easily scaleable. Or run more than one system in parallel, which is more or less what we do - one processor and one wash-tank, plus a holding tank and another wash-tank to double capacity. A lot of people do that, especially with wash-tanks. A holding tank and multiple wash-tanks can really increase production. It takes us five days to make a batch of biodiesel, from start to finish. We could do it quite a lot faster if we wanted to but we're comfortable with that. Using the full set-up we can increase that to 5-6 batches a week, and have done so for seven or eight weeks running. Very flexible. This guy is serious, does not want to skimp, and wants to do it right the first time. But he is counting on me to obtain the right information. There are a lot of experienced folks here who'll be happy to help you. Thank you so much for tempering your passion for this movement with not-so-common sense! Oh, was it? Thankyou for saying so. I did get a little impatient, finally, and no, I don't regret it. About time, probably. Keep us posted Bob. One bit of good advice - don't bother your head too much about full-scale processors until you've made a few test batches and start to get a feel for the process. It's often said it's not something that lends itself well to theory. Some hands-on with the process itself will give you insights on processors that you probably wouldn't have had otherwise. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Best wishes Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bob Grunwald 8171 8 1/2 Avenue Hanford, CA 93230 559-583-9334 (home) 559-308-0947 (cell) - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Best Processer Hello Bob Thanks for your speedy reply. What about Biodiesel Solutions, which is endorsed by Joshua Tickell? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jerome Fwd: France and legislation
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Jerome Mathevet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new to this group and would like to know if there's any french people over here who know if cooking your own fuel is legal. I ask that since you can't produce your own electricity in France (you have to sell it to the state company instead). Also, if any french has tips on where to buy cheap local chemicals/dessicants, I'd be glad to hear from them. Last thing, has anyone tried the foolproof method (by Aleks Kac) and replaced the methanol with ethanol ? What are the proportions relatively to the volume of oil/fat ? -- Jrme Mathevet --- End forwarded message ---
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
James, Is your carboy made of glass, plastic or metal? Linden James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for non-vented carboys? James On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Brian wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=860508098] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Keith, You mentioned using mild air pressure to pump from a carboy into the top of the processor. What are you using to create the mild air pressure? I agree that if there is a possibility of evolving too much gas from the reaction, that the main processor is the place to start the mixing of an addition, but it can still be done with the inline method. The simple and safer advantages would involve just hooking up hoses and turning valves. You wouldn't be opening the container again until it was empty. Unless the inline tubing needed repaired you wouldn't be unhooking it between processes. Changing caps and fittings on containers as you put it involves opening the container and exposing yourself to hazardous chemicals. I'm not saying your method is unsafe or wrong. I just stated the advantages of an inline system. I think Angus had a good idea. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: linden duncan wrote: The advantage I see to using the inline or Appleseed method would be that once you prepare your addition, you would not have to touch it again. Just as simple and safer. I'm not quite sure what you mean - addition means the methoxide or acid or whatever you're adding? If so, I can't agree with you. We don't touch it again, we never touch it at all. Did you look at our processor page? I don't think so, somehow. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor You have to change caps maybe, that's all, and you'll have to do that too with the inline method. You think that's safer and simpler? Actually, I don't think so. I don't want to argue about this, I said I'm sure either way will do, I'm not knocking the inline method at all, but I'm not going to be put in the wrong either, for the wrong reasons. These are some things Girl Mark has said about it in the past: Use a valve on your methoxide delivery tubing so that you can time the methoxide delivery into the plumbing before the pump intake such that it matches the turnover rate of your tank so it mixes gradually and evenly. Our way is simpler than that, no timing required. And this: Here's one other dangerous variable that most people are unaware of: water in oil when making biodiesel What's that , you say? water as a fire hazard? Here's how it happens: If you pump-mix methoxide with wet oil, there is a slight danger of localised boiling of methanol (!) IF the ratios of methoxide to wet oil is high. This inproper ratio only happens if your methoxide inlet to the pump is large compared to the oil inlet, or if any valves in the two lines (oil and methoxide) are open to the wrong ratio (ie oil mostly closed down and methoxide wide open). For example, a 3/4 piece of tubing for methoxide delivery going into a pump along with a 3/4 inch oil inlet tube is what I consider a high ratio. (I now use 3/8 inch methoxide tubing and 3/4 oil, with a valve on the methoxide tube, which is only opened slightly) What happens is this: the lye in the methoxide can produce heat when it hits water (from the oil). Normally if your ratios are correct, we're not using enough lye (and there should'nt be enough water) to cause this to raise the temperature in a whole tank of (even very wet) oil. But in a pump-mix situation with incorrect tubing ratios, there is momentarily a situation in the pump plumbing where the oil/water quantity is low and the methanol/lye quantity is high- which could get hot enough to surpass the boiling point of methanol (148F/60C). If your tank isn't a closed system (and plastic conical tanks and their 'manhole' covers are not a closed system!) then the methanol vapors will boil out of your tank, and the tank will pressurise (yet another reason for avoiding plastic as a mixing tank) which means that any normally invisible leaks will spray methanol-containing hot oil/biodiesel out of the tank. You may also notice a bunch of soap being made- there'll be odd gelling if the oil/ biodiesel/methanol makes it's way out of the tank! I don't think people are very aware of this problem. Pump mixing is absolutely, hands-down superior to stirred tank mixing- and it's far easier to build a sealed system with a pump rather than a stirred tank- but you have to have the methoxide delivery be slow, both for the safety reasons above and to keep the production of soap down. I think peopel sometimes rush to mix in their methoxide (because after that step there's no more operator involvement needed) but there are a few good reasons to slow down methoxide delivery- 1. preventing the overpressure situaiton above 2. not making a bunch of soap (which happens in the above situaion because there's too much lye for the amount of oil in the pipe) and 3. making sure you get a very, very good initial mix of reactants, which is easier to control in the pump ratios rather than hoping that it'll all mix through circulation later on. not using
Re: [biofuel] Pentagon's Weather Nightmare
article has been [re]moved. any ideas why? or should we buy the magazine? - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Pentagon's Weather Nightmare
Hi It's been posted before, which is no reason not to post it again. However, there was some interesting related information: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31660/ Climate Change Alert http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32243/ Pentagon tells Bush: climate change will destroy us http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32387/ Weathering the Crisis - World Bank, Pentagon: global warming redalert Best wishes Keith The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare Hi all, I guess with the release of The Day After Tomorrow there has been a lot more buzz about global warming. Here is an interesting, timely article regards CLIMATE COLLAPSE The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,582584,00.h tml Tomorrow-Energy News Group Daily Alternative Energy News and Resources Added Information about the future world energy mix practical alternative energy options: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing 1 liter batches
Hello Brian Hello. I am just starting in the production of my own biodiesel. I have made several 1 liter test batches, Good for you! but I'm not sure how to wash them. I can't find anything online particular to small batches, but I have found sources that say bubblewashing will be too violent and cause emulsification. People who say bubblewashing's too violent and set off on a quest for ever-gentler washing methods (eg mist washing) have taken a wrong turn before they start. Gentle washing techniques only mask the real problem, which is that the stuff isn't processed properly in the first place, they need to improve their processing. Emulsification doesn't normally happen with well-processed fuel. It's caused by either (or probably both) too much soap and poor conversion, leaving diglycerides and monoglycerides, which are emulsifiers. If your fuel's properly made you won't be able to emulsify it no matter how violently you agitate it. That is what you should be aiming for. See Emulsification and Emulsion Explained here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash2.html#emuls So, some suggestions. First, take about 150ml of your finished, unwashed fuel and do this with it: Quality testing http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Let us know what happens. Second, you can bubblewash it, in a 2-litre PET bottle. From Todd: You can use the pop-up cap found on water bottles at your grocer as the valve for drainage. This turns any PET bottle into a separative funnel. It takes a little practice to get the valve to trickle properly, but it does work superbly. More details on how that works here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/13265/ You know those pop-up caps? Maybe made for cyclists or something. We've used something a little different (I think), a screw-on pop-up cap with a straw through the middle that goes right down to the bottom of the bottle, with an air-inlet gap around the straw, and the cap closing both the straw and the air-inlet. Do your bubblewash, remove the air-stone and air-pipe from the pump, screw on the pop-up cap, turn the bottle upside down and allow to settle. To drain off the settled water, hold the bottle (still upside down) over the sink or something, lift the cap; the water comes out the air-inlet gap, air goes up the straw to the top (bottom) of the bottle, and draining is smooth without any glug-glugging that'll splash and prevent a clean separation. If you can't find something like this you could easily rig it with some thin air-pipe and epoxy putty. If you can't find an air-stone small enough to fit the neck of the PET bottle, cut the neck off; when the wash is finished decant it all into another PET bottle and use the pop-up cap as above. HTH Best wishes Keith Will someone share a success story? Thank you, Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: France and legislation
Hi Jerome, welcome --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Jerome Mathevet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new to this group and would like to know if there's any french people over here who know if cooking your own fuel is legal. I ask that since you can't produce your own electricity in France (you have to sell it to the state company instead). Also, if any french has tips on where to buy cheap local chemicals/dessicants, I'd be glad to hear from them. Last thing, has anyone tried the foolproof method (by Aleks Kac) and replaced the methanol with ethanol ? What are the proportions relatively to the volume of oil/fat ? One thing about both those items, neither the foolproof method nor ethanol is for newbies. In both cases it takes experience. It says at the top of the Foolproof page: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Here being here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start There was a bit of discussion about this recently, please see these two previous posts: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35241/ Re: What went wrong? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35214/ Re: What went wrong? Same thing with ethanol, only worse - see Lesson 1: Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#ethylester Making ethyl-esters biodiesel using ethanol is a tricky process, not as simple as making methyl esters with methanol. But it can be done -- Biofuels mailing list member Ken Provost, who has much experience making ethyl esters, sent us the following tipstricks sheet. Ethanol-based Biodiesel 1. Get plenty of experience making biodiesel with methanol before you try it with ethanol. Get comfortable titrating your oil for FFAs (free fatty acids); you'll need to do that when you use ethanol. So, acid-base ethyl esters? Several of us are moving in that direction, including me, but I don't think anyone's done it yet. That's not only at the cutting-edge, it's beyond it. Attractive, yes, sure, but definitely not for newcomers. Best wishes Keith -- Jrme Mathevet --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Keith, ÊÊ Now I understand the slow method of Methoxide addition, thanks.Ê You mention that the process takes about 6 minutes or so to add the methoxide, does that mean it drips onto the top of the mixture in the mix tank?Ê You sound like you have made a lot so I am going to follow your pattern but using 44 gallon drums (easier for me to get for free) and just wanted to know how to minimise any splash of methoxide or sulhpuric acid (I plan on using the two stage process).ÊÊ I notice (and envy) the shower rose for the return from the pump, would it be just as good to have it returning just under the level of the mix tank so as to minimise splashing.Ê Angus On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:32:05 +0900, Keith Addison wrote We use mild air-pressure to pump the methoxide from the carboy into a valve in the top of the processor, quite slowly. Maybe the way the oil inlet from the pump to the top of the processor is arranged also has something to do with it, but the mix is thorough and fairly instant. On adding the sulphuric acid for the acid-base process, also in the top, the oil-methanol mix in the pump tube (clear woven PVC) changes colour in a second or two, and that's at less than 1 ml per litre. It's simple and effective, I don't think feeding it (or the methanol/methoxide) straight into the pump would achieve a more thorough mix. I'm sure either way will do, but if feeding it straight to the pump gets too complicated try it this way. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Best wishes Keith Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer.Ê I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre)Ê drum.Ê I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide.Ê He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix.Ê Has anyone else got experience with this type of design.Ê Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT --- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ Ê * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ê * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Hello Linden Keith, You mentioned using mild air pressure to pump from a carboy into the top of the processor. What are you using to create the mild air pressure? So you still haven't looked at what you're commenting on. Sorry, I find that strange, especially after you were asked to do so (which was also strange). As a result I can't take your objections or claims with any seriousness, but I'll respond anyway. It's right at the top: The methoxide is pumped into the processor from the carboy by air-pressure from a small aquarium air-pump -- no exposure and no fumes. See Methoxide the easy way [link]; see also Adding the methoxide [link]. There's a lot more about it there, the aquarium pump's mentioned several times. If you did read it you sure didn't do so very effectively. I agree that if there is a possibility of evolving too much gas from the reaction, that the main processor is the place to start the mixing of an addition, but it can still be done with the inline method. As I've said, twice now. It's you who's arguing, not me - I'm simply sticking to what I've been saying all along. The simple and safer advantages would involve just hooking up hoses and turning valves. You wouldn't be opening the container again until it was empty. As with what we do. What on earth gives you the idea we'd be opening containers? It explains it very clearly on the web page I keep referring you to which somehow you refuse to look at, and I've said it here too very clearly: We don't touch it again, we never touch it at all. Unless the inline tubing needed repaired you wouldn't be unhooking it between processes. Changing caps and fittings on containers as you put it involves opening the container and exposing yourself to hazardous chemicals. So how're you going to get the methanol and the lye in there in the first place, hmm? You think it's born in there or what? Have a look at what Mark says - she uses 5-gallon carboys, TWO of them. First the one, then the other. Got it? Maybe? I'm not saying your method is unsafe or wrong. That's just what you did say, and what you're still saying, not even having bothered to inform yourself about it. I just stated the advantages of an inline system. I think Angus had a good idea. I didn't say he didn't. For the third time, I said: I'm sure either way will do, but if feeding it straight to the pump gets too complicated try it this way. I also said: I don't want to argue about this, I said I'm sure either way will do, I'm not knocking the inline method at all, but I'm not going to be put in the wrong either, for the wrong reasons. and... Did you look at our processor page? I don't think so, somehow. and... ... but do have a look at how it's done first this time before you argue about it, if you're going to argue about it. So why didn't you do that rather obvious thing, eh? Would've saved us both some time and trouble. Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: linden duncan wrote: The advantage I see to using the inline or Appleseed method would be that once you prepare your addition, you would not have to touch it again. Just as simple and safer. I'm not quite sure what you mean - addition means the methoxide or acid or whatever you're adding? If so, I can't agree with you. We don't touch it again, we never touch it at all. Did you look at our processor page? I don't think so, somehow. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor You have to change caps maybe, that's all, and you'll have to do that too with the inline method. You think that's safer and simpler? Actually, I don't think so. I don't want to argue about this, I said I'm sure either way will do, I'm not knocking the inline method at all, but I'm not going to be put in the wrong either, for the wrong reasons. These are some things Girl Mark has said about it in the past: Use a valve on your methoxide delivery tubing so that you can time the methoxide delivery into the plumbing before the pump intake such that it matches the turnover rate of your tank so it mixes gradually and evenly. Our way is simpler than that, no timing required. And this: Here's one other dangerous variable that most people are unaware of: water in oil when making biodiesel What's that , you say? water as a fire hazard? Here's how it happens: If you pump-mix methoxide with wet oil, there is a slight danger of localised boiling of methanol (!) IF the ratios of methoxide to wet oil is high. This inproper ratio only happens if your methoxide inlet to the pump is large compared to the oil inlet, or if any valves in the two lines (oil and methoxide) are open to the wrong ratio (ie oil mostly closed down and methoxide wide open). For example, a 3/4 piece of tubing for methoxide delivery going into a pump along with a 3/4 inch oil inlet tube is what I consider a high ratio. (I now use 3/8 inch methoxide tubing
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Hello Angus Keith, Now I understand the slow method of Methoxide addition, thanks. You mention that the process takes about 6 minutes or so to add the methoxide, does that mean it drips onto the top of the mixture in the mix tank? Dripping would be much too slow (1 ml = about 20 drops). It descends in a steady stream a few millimetres thick, landing on the surface a few inches off-centre. It gets nicely mixed with the oil coming in from the rose, which rains down over the whole surface area. Otherwise the methanol/methoxide tends to float about on top before it gets mixed. Or so I've observed when using a stirrer instead of a pump, I'm not sure what happens with a pump without the rose. I'm sure it'll still get mixed okay, but I don't know how fast or how evenly. I can't say which is best, I can say this works very nicely. If your processor happens to have a removable top, of course. You sound like you have made a lot so I am going to follow your pattern I didn't mean to persuade you, I was just offering an alternative. I really can't say which method is better, but I'd guess that neither is inherently better, it would depend on individual circumstances and preferences. As with most things perhaps. I'm sorry if my responses to Linden have made it seem otherwise. I shouldn't have been put in that position, and didn't want to say our way is better, I do hope it didn't come across as sounding like I did. but using 44 gallon drums (easier for me to get for free) Should be fine, and those pumps are used for that size of processor. You're using English gallons, that's 55 US gallons, or 200 litres. and just wanted to know how to minimise any splash of methoxide or sulhpuric acid (I plan on using the two stage process). If you haven't made biodiesel before, please see my reply to Jerome, Re: France and legislation, on using the Foolproof process. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/35625/ I notice (and envy) the shower rose for the return from the pump, would it be just as good to have it returning just under the level of the mix tank so as to minimise splashing. Hm. I don't know, didn't think of that. I'm not against splashing, depends how much. I did put the rose in there to minimise splashing, but also to distribute the incoming stuff evenly over the whole surface area, as above. It still splashes a little, as raindrops do when they hit puddles, but not so it matters, and I sort of value the mixing effect that way. Please let us know how you get along. Best wishes Keith Angus On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:32:05 +0900, Keith Addison wrote We use mild air-pressure to pump the methoxide from the carboy into a valve in the top of the processor, quite slowly. Maybe the way the oil inlet from the pump to the top of the processor is arranged also has something to do with it, but the mix is thorough and fairly instant. On adding the sulphuric acid for the acid-base process, also in the top, the oil-methanol mix in the pump tube (clear woven PVC) changes colour in a second or two, and that's at less than 1 ml per litre. It's simple and effective, I don't think feeding it (or the methanol/methoxide) straight into the pump would achieve a more thorough mix. I'm sure either way will do, but if feeding it straight to the pump gets too complicated try it this way. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Best wishes Keith Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
Because it is simple, works well, is reliable, is compact and not dependant on flash or bells and whistles to sell itself, it rates top shelf in my mind.Something does not have to be stamped made in (pick your industrialsed country) for it to be a quality product and this is proof of that very thing. Straight functionability is always best, and that is something the 3rd world definetly has up on the industrialised world. I saw something similar in Fiji during one of two pass-throughs in the 70's and didn't pay much attention as I saw it as just the way they did things and it worked. This is also where I was first introduced to the hot variety of peppers as the Fijians as well as the large Indian population there cook quite spicy.Very fond memories of that experience. Children play in the streets with broom sticks and bottle caps and have a great time at it, while most even speak three languages, English, Fijian and the local Indian language (forgive me I am not sure if it is Hindi or what, my ignorance). Thanks for all that info, I shall avail myself of it's treasures soon. Your processor gave me some good ideas too (me likes) that could be incoporated into my cabinet version of the Appleseed one. I could convert the wash Tank into a settling tank and then have exterior tanks for washing and have a real production thing going. The organic farmer I deal with here has already said that we could work something out for giving it (the processor-in-a-cabinet)a home so perhaps we can work something out in that department as well. He has the space that I do not which is why I designed the thing to fit into a cabinet to start with due to my space limitations, although the versatility of it allows for expansion and modifications into something bigger with little effort.He has tractors that run on diesel for his farming purposes and so, enter biodiesel and he is already of a mindset for alternative solutions, so a win win situation. I already had the pre-heat tank idea incorporated (complete with immersion heater), but the addition of a settling tank would definetly be a boon and potentially open up volume possibilities as well as solve the clogging of the pump issue as the settling would be done away from it. Again, win win. I too tried to contact the Petromax people in Florida without response. I figure that if they don't have enough decency to answer a simple email then should have more pressing questions about functionability then I will be on my own and that doesn't work for me at all.$100.00US plus for a lantern with no customer service is not the way I like to do things. Anyway, great job on the processor and thanks for the info pages. Luc PS: I shall continue to drool in secret.;)for now. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, so you got a fancy dancy stove that uses biodiesel and we are now all drooling, so, do you also have a contact adress/website where we can get one too? Please? Ta! Luc :-) Drool away, see if I care! Heh! But you're wrong, it's NOT fancy dancy, it's common-or-garden, that's the whole point. Ramjee told me the price in India was US$8 equiv. We could get them here in Japan, which exports them, but the price was $100-$120, and that for a much smaller one, sort of camping style, a toy, not kitchen style. It seems the ones they export to 3rd World countries they don't supply on the domestic market, as so often with Japanese companies, very frustrating. The main reason we needed it was because so many people from 3rd World countries have asked us for a solution for using locally-produced biofuels, ie produced at village-level, in kerosene cookers. We're much interested in this subject of 3rd World cooking, there's quite a lot about it on our website. (In fact we're much more interested in this than in helping people in the rich countries to make biodiesel.) Solar box cookers are one solution: http://journeytoforever.org/sc.html Solar box cookers: Journey to Forever - how free solar energy is saving lives, saving trees, fighting poverty and hunger in the Third World, how to make a solar box cooker, school project Improved woodstoves are another: http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html Wood fires that fit - Appropriate technology http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html Cookstove for schools: Journey to Forever Biogas is another. But there isn't one single complete solution. There's still a lot of basic development work to be done on improved woodstoves, especially on the IDD woodgas variety, one of the more promising types. For instance, this was reported in New Scientist: A new kind of cooking stove for Kenya is an example. Some Englishmen invented a stove that could be made of local clay and which was much more economical of wood than what had been used. They went to Kenya and persuaded the locals to build 250
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Hallo James, Try someplace which sells homebrewing supplies. Rubber bung with a hole in the middle to which you can attach a small plastic device which will allow gasses to escape. ?? Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 15 June, 2004, 01:26:36, you wrote: JS and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for JS non-vented carboys? JS James -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
Luc, What type of immersion heater are you using for your pre-heat tank? I've heard that you can get water heater immersion heaters cheap and screw them into a drum bung using a flange. I haven't really looked into this locally, but everything I'm finding on the net is $200 US and up. I know that there is a cheaper solution out there. I'm still in the process of gathering parts for my processor. This time of year is tough for me financially, with several recurrent annual bills coming due at the same time. Makes gathering parts a little slower than I would like it to be. I also continue to have difficulty with incomplete reactions with test batches, and have finally decided that my NaOH is hydrated. It's the only variable left to change, so I'm heading to the store to get some Red Devil and trying another test batch this weekend. I will be making biodiesel soon. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because it is simple, works well, is reliable, is compact and not dependant on flash or bells and whistles to sell itself, it rates top shelf in my mind.Something does not have to be stamped made in (pick your industrialsed country) for it to be a quality product and this is proof of that very thing. Straight functionability is always best, and that is something the 3rd world definetly has up on the industrialised world. I saw something similar in Fiji during one of two pass-throughs in the 70's and didn't pay much attention as I saw it as just the way they did things and it worked. This is also where I was first introduced to the hot variety of peppers as the Fijians as well as the large Indian population there cook quite spicy.Very fond memories of that experience. Children play in the streets with broom sticks and bottle caps and have a great time at it, while most even speak three languages, English, Fijian and the local Indian language (forgive me I am not sure if it is Hindi or what, my ignorance). Thanks for all that info, I shall avail myself of it's treasures soon. Your processor gave me some good ideas too (me likes) that could be incoporated into my cabinet version of the Appleseed one. I could convert the wash Tank into a settling tank and then have exterior tanks for washing and have a real production thing going. The organic farmer I deal with here has already said that we could work something out for giving it (the processor-in-a-cabinet)a home so perhaps we can work something out in that department as well. He has the space that I do not which is why I designed the thing to fit into a cabinet to start with due to my space limitations, although the versatility of it allows for expansion and modifications into something bigger with little effort.He has tractors that run on diesel for his farming purposes and so, enter biodiesel and he is already of a mindset for alternative solutions, so a win win situation. I already had the pre-heat tank idea incorporated (complete with immersion heater), but the addition of a settling tank would definetly be a boon and potentially open up volume possibilities as well as solve the clogging of the pump issue as the settling would be done away from it. Again, win win. I too tried to contact the Petromax people in Florida without response. I figure that if they don't have enough decency to answer a simple email then should have more pressing questions about functionability then I will be on my own and that doesn't work for me at all.$100.00US plus for a lantern with no customer service is not the way I like to do things. Anyway, great job on the processor and thanks for the info pages. Luc PS: I shall continue to drool in secret.;)for now. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, so you got a fancy dancy stove that uses biodiesel and we are now all drooling, so, do you also have a contact adress/website where we can get one too? Please? Ta! Luc :-) Drool away, see if I care! Heh! But you're wrong, it's NOT fancy dancy, it's common-or-garden, that's the whole point. Ramjee told me the price in India was US$8 equiv. We could get them here in Japan, which exports them, but the price was $100-$120, and that for a much smaller one, sort of camping style, a toy, not kitchen style. It seems the ones they export to 3rd World countries they don't supply on the domestic market, as so often with Japanese companies, very frustrating. The main reason we needed it was because so many people from 3rd World countries have asked us for a solution for using locally-produced biofuels, ie produced at village-level, in kerosene cookers. We're much interested in this subject of 3rd World cooking, there's quite a lot about it on our website. (In fact we're much more interested in this than in helping
[biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
Brian, Thanks. I'll take a look. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian, The Fort-Paks from www.usplastics.com have caps which can be plumbed with 3/4 fittings. I don't see the caps by themselves on the website, but if you called I imagine they would sell you some without the carboy. Also, Sun West Container in Tucson (and Phoenix) sells the same caps. They don't have online purchasing, but you could give them a call at 520-623-1516 or 1-800-638-1516. Regards, brian --- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] wondering about this comment
I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven them out of their land. i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews rejected it? If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel that the money still belongs to his employer? When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the people you captured it from. These are the same things.. That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is theirs.. they were attacked... they won. End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Direct oil conversion?
Hello dear fellow biofuelers, I have one theorethical question for chemists among you :). It seams to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) + 3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Has anyone of you studied this conversion path? This path seams to have greater potential for beeing cheaper, because there is no need to add methanol into the process and there is no waste glycerol; the only _realy_ hard thing is to find an appropriate catalyst. But this way you completely eliminate the tedious process of first splitting the oil into the glycerol and FFA and then combining FFAs with methanol, to get the final product - fatty acid methyl esters. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy :) Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH The hydrogen sorce for both reactions need not to be pure hydrogen, this might be some other chemical, which gives off hydrogen athoms in reaction... So, any ideas on this?? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] New to the group
Howdy folks, I'm new to the group and relatively new to the concept of biofuels. From what I've read so far it looks like a very exciting field with a lot of potential to do a lot of good things in terms of providing a renewable and environmentally friendly alternative to fossil fuels. I hope that as I learn more and more that promise and hope continues to grow. Does anybody know of any good resources to learn about production capacities and the like for biodiesel base oils? I'm very interested to learn how far we could go towards completely replacing fossil-fuels without sacrificing lifestyle. Also, if anyone can point me to some good numbers for fuel yields from base oils and other such data, I would be very grateful. Thanks! Dan Fitzpatrick The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Direct oil conversion?
I am no chemist, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Your suggestion would involve splitting the Carbon-Carbon bonds in the glycerol part of the molecule. This is certainly possible, as it's what happens with catalytic cracking. However if you're doing this to the glycerol part of the molecule you're probably also doing it to the Carbon-Carbon bonds in the fatty acid chains as well. And as the Carbon-Oxygen bonds are generally easier to break, I'm not sure that you could devise a process that didn't just give you a large number of smaller molecules, effectively by smashing the original oil up and hydrogenating it. You would probably just end up with a mixture of volatile short-chain compounds, which you would then need to separate to make use of except as a fuel in itself (more like petrol (gas) than diesel). And in any case I doubt having a catalytic cracker in your kitchen, plus a suitable supply of hydrogen, is a very practical proposition! The beauty of the transesterification process is that it's fairly simple and ends up with exactly what you want - a fuel that you can just pour into an existing vehicle without too much to worry about. Donald --- tomasjkn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello dear fellow biofuelers, I have one theorethical question for chemists among you :). It seams to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) + 3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Has anyone of you studied this conversion path? This path seams to have greater potential for beeing cheaper, because there is no need to add methanol into the process and there is no waste glycerol; the only _realy_ hard thing is to find an appropriate catalyst. But this way you completely eliminate the tedious process of first splitting the oil into the glycerol and FFA and then combining FFAs with methanol, to get the final product - fatty acid methyl esters. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy :) Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH The hydrogen sorce for both reactions need not to be pure hydrogen, this might be some other chemical, which gives off hydrogen athoms in reaction... So, any ideas on this?? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links = -- 43 - more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Direct oil conversion?
on 6/15/04 7:35 AM, tomasjkn at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me, that there should be a direct chemical conversion route from oil to fatty acid methyl esters. (R-COO)-CH2-(R-COO-)CH-CH2-(-COO-R) +3H2 == 3 R-COO-CH3 Unfortunately, the ester linkage will always be much easier to break than the C-C bonds in the glycerol. I don't believe what you're suggesting would be possible. Or, perhaps a less radical idea, but achieving the same economy: Maybe there is a route to convert your waste glycerol into methanol? CH2OH-CHOH-CH2OH + 3H2 == 3 CH3OH This one is much more likely -- there are probly bacteria or yeasts that could break down a simple sugar like glycerol directly to methanol. If not, they could certainly be bioengineered :-)-K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
The immersion heater is a 115V type (NOT the 240V type)used for the common water heater (I also got another one to convert the lower element to 115V instead of the 240V it comes with)and can be acquired anywhere they sell water heaters,and usually right next to where they are displayed, such as Home Hardware or such large hardware stores. The heater is a round screw in type and the thread does not match any regular drum thread well, special thread and all that, (hense the need to use LOTS of pipe tape) so what I did was to get a conversion flange (used to convert heaters with a square heater hole to a round one) that is square with a screw in hole that accomodates the screw in the heater element perfectly (it is made for it)and then I had the brother-in-law weld the square flange into the side of the metal pre-heat drum, and all I had to do is screw in the heater element. I also had him weld a drain tap as far down as possible on the same drum, using a bushing so all that was left to do was to screw in the drain tap.(you can use any type of drain tap you want that fits your needs; I used one that accomodates a water hose adapter so that it can be easily removed and transported ect...) The idea for the square conversion attachment came from a plumber that happened to be at the store when I explained what I wanted to do to the clerk who looked at me like I'd fallen off a distant planet... I have not yet attached the thermostat from the water heater's upper element (which I have to disable anyway) but that is on the list. I also am in the process of building my first processor, and it is paycheque to paycheque which comes around every two weeks like many people, but during the time it is taking it allows time to think and rethink the plans and possibilities and continue to scour the threads here for any improvements I can make while still in the building stages. A treasure house of information this list is, so avail yourself of everything you can from those who have gone on before and have learned what works and what doesn't. Trial and error is a great teacher, but learning from the experience of others is much less frustrating :) Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luc, What type of immersion heater are you using for your pre-heat tank? I've heard that you can get water heater immersion heaters cheap and screw them into a drum bung using a flange. I haven't really looked into this locally, but everything I'm finding on the net is $200 US and up. I know that there is a cheaper solution out there. I'm still in the process of gathering parts for my processor. This time of year is tough for me financially, with several recurrent annual bills coming due at the same time. Makes gathering parts a little slower than I would like it to be. I also continue to have difficulty with incomplete reactions with test batches, and have finally decided that my NaOH is hydrated. It's the only variable left to change, so I'm heading to the store to get some Red Devil and trying another test batch this weekend. I will be making biodiesel soon. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because it is simple, works well, is reliable, is compact and not dependant on flash or bells and whistles to sell itself, it rates top shelf in my mind.Something does not have to be stamped made in (pick your industrialsed country) for it to be a quality product and this is proof of that very thing. Straight functionability is always best, and that is something the 3rd world definetly has up on the industrialised world. I saw something similar in Fiji during one of two pass-throughs in the 70's and didn't pay much attention as I saw it as just the way they did things and it worked. This is also where I was first introduced to the hot variety of peppers as the Fijians as well as the large Indian population there cook quite spicy.Very fond memories of that experience. Children play in the streets with broom sticks and bottle caps and have a great time at it, while most even speak three languages, English, Fijian and the local Indian language (forgive me I am not sure if it is Hindi or what, my ignorance). Thanks for all that info, I shall avail myself of it's treasures soon. Your processor gave me some good ideas too (me likes) that could be incoporated into my cabinet version of the Appleseed one. I could convert the wash Tank into a settling tank and then have exterior tanks for washing and have a real production thing going. The organic farmer I deal with here has already said that we could work something out for giving it (the processor-in-a-cabinet)a home so perhaps we can work something out in that department as well. He has the space that I do not which is why I designed the thing to fit into a
Re: [biofuel] New to the group
on 6/15/04 7:48 AM, Dan Fitzpatrick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm very interested to learn how far we could go towards completely replacing fossil-fuels without sacrificing lifestyle. Probly not very far. Check out The Party's Over, Richard Heinberg. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail /-/0865714827103-4126562-7176623?v=glance I just bought 10 copies to give away. Not the definitive work by any means, but everything has been brought together nicely in one place, including a lot of history I never knew. He and others make the case that our lifestyle is a petroleum-fed aberration, and likely a good thing to sacrifice (or jettison) as soon as possible, surely including much misery in the process. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Locating Tight Head containers for Methoxide - carboy caps
Below's contacts can provide threaded caps for the carboys as well. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the US it doesn't seem to be a problem, whereas elewhere it does not seem to be THAT simple. Here are some places to try in the US (useless to me but maybe good for you) :) Product A. http://www.generalcontainer.com/displayCategory.asp?cat=3subcat=12 I'd love to get my hands on these: http://www.containerlogix.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/25_38_45 /products_id/159 5gal tight head http://www.paramountcan.com/packaging.html Natural is better than white as you can see if the Mthoxide has disolved completely http://www.freundcontainer.com/plastic/pails/small_closed_head.html Scroll down http://www.ba-industrial.com/ppails.htm and I am adding this one to show ICB's, a 200gal plus HDPE cube already plumbed for a large fitting good for storage of BD or water that is gravity fed from rain water collection for sinks and toilets ect... in a rural setting.Might also be good for irrigation :) http://www.lennoxdrum.com/html/products___services.html Have a nice day. Luc PS: G-Mark also has other contacts at the bottom of her Appleseed processor page http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
Steve, This is one of the worse things I heard for a long - long time. We have international laws that regulate this and none is supporting your and Israel's view about individual ownership, as you are stating it. It might have been true some hundreds years ago, but today ownership must be respected. This have nothing to do with what the state occupies whoever, they are obliged by international law to respect individual property rights. An occupier have the obligation to protect the occupied population and provide a secure environment in accordance to international law and human rights. Israel does nothing of either. Personally I feel cheated, since I have for so long supported Israel and its right to live in peace and security. How can this state that for so long and in such a high degree, solicited and got my support, commit such crimes today. Every time I look at what you are saying, it get me more and more upset and how can anyone be so f-ing stupid. I do not normally get so upset and it is not good for my health. My friend, you do not fit in the modern society, with respect for human rights. How can anyone support land grab and stealing from individuals, who are the victims of a conflict between states and not personally responsible. How could you, Israel and the US government develop such a barbarian view. The negligence by US to follow the international laws in Iraq, might be a sign of both the US and Israel ignorance. Leaders and government of countries are expected to follow international laws, if not, they are criminals. Both US and Israel are bound to these laws and have ratified them, their behavior is not supportable. Hakan At 15:43 15/06/2004, you wrote: I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven them out of their land. i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews rejected it? If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel that the money still belongs to his employer? When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the people you captured it from. These are the same things.. That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is theirs.. they were attacked... they won. End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] pentagon article(free part)
Hi all, the link I posted yesterday may have got cut. Here is an excerpt Pentagon article link (free part) The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare The climate could change radically, and fast. That would be the mother of all national security issues. By David Stipp Global warming may be bad news for future generations, but let's face it, most of us spend as little time worrying about it as we did about al Qaeda before 9/11. Like the terrorists, though, the seemingly remote climate risk may hit home sooner and harder than we ever imagined. In fact, the prospect has become so real that the Pentagon's strategic planners are grappling with it. The threat that has riveted their attention is this: Global warming, rather than causing gradual, centuries-spanning change, may be pushing the climate to a tipping point. Growing evidence suggests the ocean-atmosphere system that controls the world's climate can lurch from one state to another in less than a decade like a canoe that's gradually tilted until suddenly it flips over. Scientists don't know how close the system is to a critical threshold. But abrupt climate change may well occur in the not-too-distant future. If it does, the need to rapidly adapt may overwhelm many societies thereby upsetting the geopolitical balance of power. Though triggered by warming, such change would probably cause cooling in the Northern Hemisphere, leading to longer, harsher winters in much of the U.S. and Europe. Worse, it would cause massive droughts, turning farmland to dust bowls and forests to ashes. Picture last fall's California wildfires as a regular thing. Or imagine similar disasters destabilizing nuclear powers such as Pakistan or Russia÷it's easy to see why the Pentagon has become interested in abrupt climate change. Climate researchers began getting seriously concerned about it a decade ago, after studying temperature indicators embedded... http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,582584,00.h tml regards Tomorrow-Energy News Group Daily Alternative Energy News and Resources Added Information about the future world energy mix practical alternative energy options: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Intro + biofuel
Howdy, New to the list. Here I hope to learn what is needed to move from our current Bio-Diesel Peuget 505 up to a full dual tank bio + SVO Pickup truck. So far the 505 on BD is working great, only it is WAY expensive fuel here in WA state. Will buy a 90's Dodge ram for the dual tank set up. Wish me luck. Roy Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
I visited Israel recently and toured the Golan among other places. The Golan is the perfect place for anyone bent on the destruction of Israel (like Syria professes to be) to possess so that they can just drop their artillery shells on the most inhabitted sections of the country. That's what they tried to do in 1967 and there is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that they will not repeat that if they ever get the Golan back. The only way Israel can be secure is to retain the Golan and keep those people who wish to see Israel destroyed off of it. But isn't this supposed to be the biofuels list? Dan -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:57 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment Steve, This is one of the worse things I heard for a long - long time. We have international laws that regulate this and none is supporting your and Israel's view about individual ownership, as you are stating it. It might have been true some hundreds years ago, but today ownership must be respected. This have nothing to do with what the state occupies whoever, they are obliged by international law to respect individual property rights. An occupier have the obligation to protect the occupied population and provide a secure environment in accordance to international law and human rights. Israel does nothing of either. Personally I feel cheated, since I have for so long supported Israel and its right to live in peace and security. How can this state that for so long and in such a high degree, solicited and got my support, commit such crimes today. Every time I look at what you are saying, it get me more and more upset and how can anyone be so f-ing stupid. I do not normally get so upset and it is not good for my health. My friend, you do not fit in the modern society, with respect for human rights. How can anyone support land grab and stealing from individuals, who are the victims of a conflict between states and not personally responsible. How could you, Israel and the US government develop such a barbarian view. The negligence by US to follow the international laws in Iraq, might be a sign of both the US and Israel ignorance. Leaders and government of countries are expected to follow international laws, if not, they are criminals. Both US and Israel are bound to these laws and have ratified them, their behavior is not supportable. Hakan At 15:43 15/06/2004, you wrote: I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven them out of their land. i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews rejected it? If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel that the money still belongs to his employer? When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the people you captured it from. These are the same things.. That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is theirs.. they were attacked... they won. End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129lokhu0/M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/ D=groups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1087405057/A=2164339/R=0/SIG=11e2d64in/*htt p://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183348 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=group s/S=:HM/A=2164339/rand=413300417 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
HDPE plastic On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, linden duncan wrote: James, Is your carboy made of glass, plastic or metal? Linden James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for non-vented carboys? James On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Brian wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=860508098] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=763018538] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
sounds interesting, I will ask Ken where he gets this brewing supplies. Thanks. James On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo James, Try someplace which sells homebrewing supplies. Rubber bung with a hole in the middle to which you can attach a small plastic device which will allow gasses to escape. ?? Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 15 June, 2004, 01:26:36, you wrote: JS and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for JS non-vented carboys? JS James -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
Hi Luc Because it is simple, works well, is reliable, is compact and not dependant on flash or bells and whistles to sell itself, it rates top shelf in my mind.Something does not have to be stamped made in (pick your industrialsed country) for it to be a quality product and this is proof of that very thing. Straight functionability is always best, and that is something the 3rd world definetly has up on the industrialised world. Indeed yes, with many exceptions on both sides. Much less marketing is one reason, no constant stream of new models soon rendered obsolete by a mere change in style. Most of our possessions fall into that category - good gear, good condition, good working order, junked for no good reason, saved en route to a watery death as landfill in Tokyo Bay. I won't give you an inventory but it includes some quite extraordinary things, millions of yen worth. We got very choosy about it, only the best gomi (junk) would do. To give them their due, there's talk here of changing the word gomi, because it means useless, and the Japanese know very well a lot of their junk is far from useless. On the other hand, a current bestseller is a book about how to throw stuff away. :-/ Well that's a different subject, though it's related. You're talking of Appropriate Technology really. A concept originally developed in Britain in the 60s as an essential adjunct to Fritz Schumacher's Small is Beautiful - Economics as if People Mattered - technology as if people mattered. Neither Small is Beautiful nor Appropriate Technology were intended primarily for the 3rd World but for the world in general, but of course the developed economies of the industrialised nations were much too well-defended. So it's 3rd World stuff - but IMNSHO the developed countries are in at least as great a need of it as the 3rd World is. Seems you agree. I saw something similar in Fiji during one of two pass-throughs in the 70's and didn't pay much attention as I saw it as just the way they did things and it worked. This is also where I was first introduced to the hot variety of peppers as the Fijians as well as the large Indian population there cook quite spicy.Very fond memories of that experience. Children play in the streets with broom sticks and bottle caps and have a great time at it, How cruel of their parents to think they can bring them up properly without the benefits of Toys R Us! LOL! Black kids in Soweto make these little bicycles out of bits of wire, about eight inches long, they're beautiful, everything works. I've got one here. There are so many great examples of that. Life without television, what a blessing! No, I'm NOT extolling the wondrous benefits of poverty and deprivation. But there's a middle way, a sane way, there's enough, more than enough, for everyone to have enough for their needs and more, to live well without this dreadful waste and madness we seem to think is essential to our lifestyles. while most even speak three languages, English, Fijian and the local Indian language (forgive me I am not sure if it is Hindi or what, my ignorance). Thanks for all that info, I shall avail myself of it's treasures soon. You're more than welcome. Your processor gave me some good ideas too (me likes) that could be incoporated into my cabinet version of the Appleseed one. Good! :-) I could convert the wash Tank into a settling tank and then have exterior tanks for washing and have a real production thing going. The organic farmer I deal with here has already said that we could work something out for giving it (the processor-in-a-cabinet)a home so perhaps we can work something out in that department as well. He has the space that I do not which is why I designed the thing to fit into a cabinet to start with due to my space limitations, although the versatility of it allows for expansion and modifications into something bigger with little effort.He has tractors that run on diesel for his farming purposes and so, enter biodiesel and he is already of a mindset for alternative solutions, so a win win situation. Careful - tractors can be thirsty beasts, you might be spending more time than you'd like brewing BD. But organic farmers do have an interest - for instance, we've found here that their customers like it, they start sending in their WVO to be turned into biodiesel. He could figure some interesting things with his cropping system, so it produced a lot of biofuel feedstock from wastes, withou the dedicated use of much or even any land at all. (No such thing as waste on an organic farm!) I already had the pre-heat tank idea incorporated (complete with immersion heater), but the addition of a settling tank would definetly be a boon and potentially open up volume possibilities as well as solve the clogging of the pump issue as the settling would be done away from it. Again, win win. Yes. I just wrote in another message about using it to extend our usual one batch in five days
Re: [biofuel] Pentagon's Weather Nightmare
Coral wrote: article has been [re]moved. any ideas why? or should we buy the magazine? It's there, not moved. The url below in tallex2002's message has been broken in transit, I'd guess you only used the first part and got an error message. Add the broken-off bit on the second line and then it'll work. I won't try to do it for you because I don't know how your email program or whatever handles line-breaks. This is a very common problem with emailing urls - when they get broken, just copy and paste the broken bits to a word-processor program or something and reassemble them again. Best Keith The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare Hi all, I guess with the release of The Day After Tomorrow there has been a lot more buzz about global warming. Here is an interesting, timely article regards CLIMATE COLLAPSE The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,582584,00.h tml Tomorrow-Energy News Group Daily Alternative Energy News and Resources Added Information about the future world energy mix practical alternative energy options: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Intro + biofuel
BD way expensive You must either be buying it commecial or using ONLY virgin oil to make it, and at that rate, yes it is expensive (although still ecologically responsible) :) If you were to produce your own top rate Biodiesel from waste vegetable oil (old fryer oil), as you will learn to do from this list and journeytofoerever.org, you will quickly notice that it is an ECONOMICAL as well as environmentally responsible thing to do. Others here can also inform you on the ups and downs of SVO use, but dollar for dollar biodiesel is the way to go, IMHO. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, GuzziMaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy, New to the list. Here I hope to learn what is needed to move from our current Bio-Diesel Peuget 505 up to a full dual tank bio + SVO Pickup truck. So far the 505 on BD is working great, only it is WAY expensive fuel here in WA state. Will buy a 90's Dodge ram for the dual tank set up. Wish me luck. Roy Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Conversion Tool
Found another on-line conversion tool to help those not metrically minded make sense out of volumes ect... http://convert.french-property.co.uk/ and scroll to the appropriate conversion you want to make. Also has Imperial measurements converted to metric for places like Canada where water heaters are still measured in imperial gallons on the info plate. This other one is interactive but doesn't seem to do imperial measures; http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/celsius Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Confirmed WVO Sources
Being a one step at a time project, my quest for building a workable processor and finding feedstock (WVO)is coming to fuition. I pick up the water heater (136 liter) on Thursday, but the exciting news is that today I got comfirmation of two seperate WVO sources. One, litterally across the street from where I live (cheap fuel consumption for pick ups) who told me that I could empty it as often as I wanted speaking of his tightly covered 200 liter drum and the other source is a Truck Stop called Flying J. Flying J is a fairly well known truck stop in the US and some Canadian truckers will be more than familiar with it as well, they are HUGE, cross country, and apparently willing to donate their WVO for biodiesel production(even though the brunt of their business is the sale of dino diesel for big trucks). So, perhaps those looking for a WVO source in the US and a few places in Canada could approach the J or other Truck Stops, of which there are thousands, and get a steady supply that way. Have a nice day. Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] pentagon article (free part)
The pentgon article is pasted below via this link http://sierratimes.com/04/02/09/ar_weather.htm This Article Published 02. 9. 04 [Feb. 9, 2004] at 22:52 Sierra Time tallex2002 wrote: Hi all, the link I posted yesterday may have got cut. Here is an excerpt Pentagon article link (free part) The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare The climate could change radically, and fast. That would be the mother of all national security issues. By David Stipp Global warming may be bad news for future generations, but let's face it, most of us spend as little time worrying about it as we did about al Qaeda before 9/11. Like the terrorists, though, the seemingly remote climate risk may hit home sooner and harder than we ever imagined. In fact, the prospect has become so real that the Pentagon's strategic planners are grappling with it. The threat that has riveted their attention is this: Global warming, rather than causing gradual, centuries-spanning change, may be pushing the climate to a tipping point. Growing evidence suggests the ocean-atmosphere system that controls the world's climate can lurch from one state to another in less than a decade like a canoe that's gradually tilted until suddenly it flips over. Scientists don't know how close the system is to a critical threshold. But abrupt climate change may well occur in the not-too-distant future. If it does, the need to rapidly adapt may overwhelm many societies thereby upsetting the geopolitical balance of power. Though triggered by warming, such change would probably cause cooling in the Northern Hemisphere, leading to longer, harsher winters in much of the U.S. and Europe. Worse, it would cause massive droughts, turning farmland to dust bowls and forests to ashes. Picture last fall's California wildfires as a regular thing. Or imagine similar disasters destabilizing nuclear powers such as Pakistan or Russia÷it's easy to see why the Pentagon has become interested in abrupt climate change. Climate researchers began getting seriously concerned about it a decade ago, after studying temperature indicators embedded... http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,582584,00.html CONTINUED ???... ...in ancient layers of Arctic ice. The data show that a number of dramatic shifts in average temperature took place in the past with shocking speed÷in some cases, just a few years. The case for angst was buttressed by a theory regarded as the most likely explanation for the abrupt changes. The eastern U.S. and northern Europe, it seems, are warmed by a huge Atlantic Ocean current that flows north from the tropics÷that's why Britain, at Labrador's latitude, is relatively temperate. Pumping out warm, moist air, this great conveyor current gets cooler and denser as it moves north. That causes the current to sink in the North Atlantic, where it heads south again in the ocean depths. The sinking process draws more water from the south, keeping the roughly circular current on the go. But when the climate warms, according to the theory, fresh water from melting Arctic glaciers flows into the North Atlantic, lowering the current's salinity÷and its density and tendency to sink. A warmer climate also increases rainfall and runoff into the current, further lowering its saltiness. As a result, the conveyor loses its main motive force and can rapidly collapse, turning off the huge heat pump and altering the climate over much of the Northern Hemisphere. Scientists aren't sure what caused the warming that triggered such collapses in the remote past. (Clearly it wasn't humans and their factories.) But the data from Arctic ice and other sources suggest the atmospheric changes that preceded earlier collapses were dismayingly similar to today's global warming. As the Ice Age began drawing to a close about 13,000 years ago, for example, temperatures in Greenland rose to levels near those of recent decades. Then they abruptly plunged as the conveyor apparently shut down, ushering in the Younger Dryas period, a 1,300-year reversion to ice-age conditions. (A dryas is an Arctic flower that flourished in Europe at the time.) Though Mother Nature caused past abrupt climate changes, the one that may be shaping up today probably has more to do with us. In 2001 an international panel of climate experts concluded that there is increasingly strong evidence that most of the global warming observed over the past 50 years is attributable to human activities÷mainly the burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal, which release heat-trapping carbon dioxide. Indicators of the warming include shrinking Arctic ice, melting alpine glaciers, and markedly earlier springs at northerly latitudes. A few years ago such changes seemed signs of possible trouble for our kids or grandkids. Today they seem portents of a cataclysm that may not conveniently wait until we're
[biofuel] Re: Confirmed WVO Sources
Luc, Thanks for sharing the information. In buying dino diesel, Flying J is one of my mainstays. Their prices are always among the best, and they are one of the few truck stops that has auto diesel pumps rather than forcing me to fill my Beetle from a pump intended for filling semis. Now you've given me yet another reason to be loyal to the chain. I have a locally owned fast food restaurant close to home that will allow me to scavenge oil when the time comes. There is a Flying J close by, too, though. That may be a good alternative filling spot. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being a one step at a time project, my quest for building a workable processor and finding feedstock (WVO)is coming to fuition. I pick up the water heater (136 liter) on Thursday, but the exciting news is that today I got comfirmation of two seperate WVO sources. One, litterally across the street from where I live (cheap fuel consumption for pick ups) who told me that I could empty it as often as I wanted speaking of his tightly covered 200 liter drum and the other source is a Truck Stop called Flying J. Flying J is a fairly well known truck stop in the US and some Canadian truckers will be more than familiar with it as well, they are HUGE, cross country, and apparently willing to donate their WVO for biodiesel production(even though the brunt of their business is the sale of dino diesel for big trucks). So, perhaps those looking for a WVO source in the US and a few places in Canada could approach the J or other Truck Stops, of which there are thousands, and get a steady supply that way. Have a nice day. Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Journey to Forever 90-litre processor
Luc, Thanks again for the help. I need to just break down and head to Home Depot and look around, I guess. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The immersion heater is a 115V type (NOT the 240V type)used for the common water heater (I also got another one to convert the lower element to 115V instead of the 240V it comes with)and can be acquired anywhere they sell water heaters,and usually right next to where they are displayed, such as Home Hardware or such large hardware stores. The heater is a round screw in type and the thread does not match any regular drum thread well, special thread and all that, (hense the need to use LOTS of pipe tape) so what I did was to get a conversion flange (used to convert heaters with a square heater hole to a round one) that is square with a screw in hole that accomodates the screw in the heater element perfectly (it is made for it)and then I had the brother-in-law weld the square flange into the side of the metal pre-heat drum, and all I had to do is screw in the heater element. I also had him weld a drain tap as far down as possible on the same drum, using a bushing so all that was left to do was to screw in the drain tap.(you can use any type of drain tap you want that fits your needs; I used one that accomodates a water hose adapter so that it can be easily removed and transported ect...) The idea for the square conversion attachment came from a plumber that happened to be at the store when I explained what I wanted to do to the clerk who looked at me like I'd fallen off a distant planet... I have not yet attached the thermostat from the water heater's upper element (which I have to disable anyway) but that is on the list. I also am in the process of building my first processor, and it is paycheque to paycheque which comes around every two weeks like many people, but during the time it is taking it allows time to think and rethink the plans and possibilities and continue to scour the threads here for any improvements I can make while still in the building stages. A treasure house of information this list is, so avail yourself of everything you can from those who have gone on before and have learned what works and what doesn't. Trial and error is a great teacher, but learning from the experience of others is much less frustrating :) Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luc, What type of immersion heater are you using for your pre-heat tank? I've heard that you can get water heater immersion heaters cheap and screw them into a drum bung using a flange. I haven't really looked into this locally, but everything I'm finding on the net is $200 US and up. I know that there is a cheaper solution out there. I'm still in the process of gathering parts for my processor. This time of year is tough for me financially, with several recurrent annual bills coming due at the same time. Makes gathering parts a little slower than I would like it to be. I also continue to have difficulty with incomplete reactions with test batches, and have finally decided that my NaOH is hydrated. It's the only variable left to change, so I'm heading to the store to get some Red Devil and trying another test batch this weekend. I will be making biodiesel soon. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because it is simple, works well, is reliable, is compact and not dependant on flash or bells and whistles to sell itself, it rates top shelf in my mind.Something does not have to be stamped made in (pick your industrialsed country) for it to be a quality product and this is proof of that very thing. Straight functionability is always best, and that is something the 3rd world definetly has up on the industrialised world. I saw something similar in Fiji during one of two pass-throughs in the 70's and didn't pay much attention as I saw it as just the way they did things and it worked. This is also where I was first introduced to the hot variety of peppers as the Fijians as well as the large Indian population there cook quite spicy.Very fond memories of that experience. Children play in the streets with broom sticks and bottle caps and have a great time at it, while most even speak three languages, English, Fijian and the local Indian language (forgive me I am not sure if it is Hindi or what, my ignorance). Thanks for all that info, I shall avail myself of it's treasures soon. Your processor gave me some good ideas too (me likes) that could be incoporated into my cabinet version of the Appleseed one. I could convert the wash Tank into a settling tank and then have exterior tanks for washing and have a real production
Re: [biofuel] Abrupt Climate Change the 'Day after Tomorrow' movie
A [US} Senate vote on the Climate Stewardship Act is expected in mid-June. The Day After Tomorrow: Coming Soon? Jun 7, 2004 http://www.movingideas.org/blitz/climate.html [for additional links throughout the article] CLIMATE STEWARDSHIP ACT | TAKE ACTION AND GET FREE ICE CREAM Over the last few weeks, millions of moviegoers were engrossed by dramatic images of hurricanes whipping through Los Angeles and tidal waves crashing through New York City. While The Day After Tomorrow is a fictitious account of the effects of climate change, the scientific research about global warming is chilling and difficult to ignore. Global warming is caused by heat-trapping gas emissions, such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous dioxide, created by the burning of fossil fuels. Much research points to increasingly strong evidence that global warming is being accelerated by human activities. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (established in 1988 by the United Nations and the World Meteorological Organization) most recent assessment report predicted the Earth's average temperature will increase by as much as 10.4 degrees by 2100. This would be the most rapid change in 10,000 years. What difference could a few degrees possibly make? A lot. The impact of climate change is already felt around the globe. For example, a report by the Union of Concerned Scientists details changes to the Great Lakes region including shorter winters, increased annual temperatures, and more common heavy rainstorms. The health effects could be disastrous, including increases in infectious diseases and mosquito born illnesses. Other consequences of global warming include rising sea levels, an increase in droughts and flooding, coastal destruction, disappearance of barrier islands and the extinction of some plant and animal life. Turning the Heat Down: The Climate Stewardship Act To begin to address the growing problem of global warming, Senators Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) and John McCain (R-AZ) have reintroduced S.139, the Climate Stewardship Act (CSA). This bill gives economic incentives to the largest emitters of heat-trapping gases in the manufacturing, commercial, and electric utility sectors, and to transportation fuel refiners to reduce overall emissions through a cap and trade system. The government will issue a limited number of permits to covered companies which will dictate the amount of greenhouse gases that can be emitted. Companies are then allowed to sell unused permits. The permits will regulate emissions levels, bringing them down to year 2000 levels by 2010. The CSA will have a minimal economic impact of $20 a year per household and exempts small businesses and individuals from its requirements, while still bringing at least 75 percent of greenhouse gas emissions under its caps. It also encourages energy efficiency and investment in clean energy. In 2003, the Climate Stewardship Act was defeated on the floor of the Senate by a vote of 43 to 55. However, according to a Union of Concerned Scientists report a number of Senators who voted against the bill did understand the dangers of climate change and indicated interest in working with the co-sponsors on future legislation. Building on the momentum in the Senate, a companion bi-partisan bill, H.R. 4067 was introduced in the House of Representatives on March 30, 2004. The principal co-sponsors of this bill include Representatives Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), John Olver (D-MA), Christopher Shays (R-CT), Chris Van Hollen (D-MD), Sherwood Boehlert (R-NY) and Jay Inslee (D-WA). Its introduction highlights the importance of the issue of global warming to members on both sides of the aisle. A Senate vote on the Climate Stewardship Act is expected in mid-June. Take action today to support this vital first step in addressing climate change! Take Action 1. Tell Congress to pass the Climate Stewardship Act and get FREE ice cream! http://www.gettherealscoop.org Courtesy of the Natural Resources Defense Council and Ben Jerry's 2. Sign up for the Sierra Club's global warming e-newsletter which provides updates and action steps to address climate change. http://www.sierraclub.org/globalwarming/e-newsletter/ 3. Check out 20 simple things you can do to help curb global warming. http://www.undoit.org/undoit_steps_1.cfm Learn More about Global Warming ð Climate Stewardship Act, Union of Concerned Scientists http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/page.cfm?pageID=1237 ð Summary of the Lieberman-McCain Climate Stewardship Act, Pew Center on Global Climate Change http://www.pewclimate.org/policy_center/analyses/s_139_summary.cfm ð Ten Reasons to Support the Climate Stewardship Act, The Climate Action Network (CAN) http://www.climatenetwork.org/csa.htm#10 ð Global Warming Overview: A Dangerous Experiment, Sierra Club
RE: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw barchain lube?
Sorry for the delayed reply, just started catching up with a few weeks worth of posts. I think it was the Weinstephan University in Germany (those of rape oil fuel quality standard fame) who did testing of cold pressed rapeseed oil for chainsaw oil. There is/was a .pdf file of the report somewhere out there (in German). Also various other references to this study (try google) They found it superior to normal chain oil, if the flow rate was adjustable it could be set at the lowest and still give great lubrication. As I earn most of my money swinging around trees with a chainsaw I've had ample opportunity to give this a good go in a number of different Stihl saws and have had no adverse effects. Due to cost and availability I've been using hexane extracted rapeseed oil (what you get in supermarkets - not cold pressed) and decided not to adjust the flow rate. Darren -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2004 06:51 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Bio-D as a chainsaw barchain lube? I tried some of my test batch in teh oil reservior on my chainsaw today, and so far noproblems. I read on the JTF site that it is a good non-toxic household and garden lube. Now for those not familiar with what good bar and chain lube has to do, it must lubricate the drum, floating rim sprocket, the chain sprocket and cutting chain. No internal engine parts are affected. All oil pump assy. parts are cheap and easily replaced as are most of the other parts I described. WHat do you all think? Thanks, J.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
Hallo Dan, Go check out these sites and then come back and defend Israel. http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0693/9306019.htm http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/ This is the biofuels list and then some. No topic cops. Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 15 June, 2004, 13:10:08, you wrote: DF I visited Israel recently and toured the Golan among other places. The DF Golan is the perfect place for anyone bent on the destruction of Israel DF (like Syria professes to be) to possess so that they can just drop their DF artillery shells on the most inhabitted sections of the country. That's DF what they tried to do in 1967 and there is absolutely no reason for DF anyone to believe that they will not repeat that if they ever get the DF Golan back. The only way Israel can be secure is to retain the Golan DF and keep those people who wish to see Israel destroyed off of it. DF But isn't this supposed to be the biofuels list? DF Dan DF -Original Message- DF From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] DF Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:57 AM DF To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com DF Subject: Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment DF Steve, DF This is one of the worse things I heard for a long - long time. We have DF international laws that regulate this and none is supporting your and DF Israel's view about individual ownership, as you are stating it. It DF might have been true some hundreds years ago, but today ownership must DF be respected. This have nothing to do with what the state occupies DF whoever, they are obliged by international law to respect individual DF property rights. An occupier have the obligation to protect the occupied DF population and provide a secure environment in accordance to DF international law and human rights. Israel does nothing of either. DF Personally I feel cheated, since I have for so long supported Israel and DF its right to live in peace and security. How can this state that for so DF long and in such a high degree, solicited and got my support, commit DF such crimes today. DF Every time I look at what you are saying, it get me more and more upset DF and how can anyone be so f-ing stupid. I do not normally get so upset DF and it is not good for my health. My friend, you do not fit in the DF modern society, with respect for human rights. How can anyone support DF land grab and stealing from individuals, who are the victims of a DF conflict between states and not personally responsible. DF How could you, Israel and the US government develop such a barbarian DF view. DF The negligence by US to follow the international laws in Iraq, might be DF a sign of both the US and Israel ignorance. Leaders and government of DF countries are expected to follow international laws, if not, they are DF criminals. Both US and Israel are bound to these laws and have ratified DF them, their behavior is not supportable. DF Hakan DF At 15:43 15/06/2004, you wrote: I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven them out of their land. i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews rejected it? If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel that the money still belongs to his employer? When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the people you captured it from. These are the same things.. That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. It is theirs.. they were attacked... they won. End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group,
