Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Pedro, you misunderstood. I was commenting on Marco's statement: "but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, asthere won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warezversion." Marco was saying that DVD cases would adversely affect the number of units sold. My point is that they're selling more units than ever. I wasn't commenting on quality. Hugh-Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Jan 21, 2004 8:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classics Hugh Falk wrote: EA is doing better every year financially (including Europe). If DVD cases are a mistake, there is no evidence yetSorry, but that's not a valid point Let's replace some words in the sentence above: McDonalds is doing better every year financially (including Europe). If burgers-made-of-stuff-that's-not-quite-beef are a mistake, there is no evidence yet.Does that sound a valid point to you? --Pedro R. QuaresmaSalvador Caetano IMVTDiv. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information DivisionAdministração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., "Esperanza"'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Onlinehttp://www.toyota.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Of course you can. There are lots of criteria you can judge mistakes by, but in the games industry, number of units sold is the most common and least subjective method. It is especially important since it usually determines if you get to continue making games in the future. Hugh-Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Jan 21, 2004 9:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classics Hugh, I understood the context... I just don't think you can quite compare "making more/less money" and "being a mistake" :)I wasn't commenting on quality either 0:) Pedro --Pedro R. QuaresmaSalvador Caetano IMVTDiv. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information DivisionAdministração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., "Esperanza"'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: (bcc: Pedro Quaresma/SCAETANO) Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classics [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21-01-2004 16:40 Solicita-se resposta a hughfalk Pedro, you misunderstood. I was commenting on Marco's statement: "but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, asthere won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warezversion." Marco was saying that DVD cases would adversely affect the number of units sold. My point is that they're selling more units than ever. I wasn't commenting on quality. Hugh-Original Message- From: Pedro Quaresma Sent: Jan 21, 2004 8:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classics Hugh Falk wrote: EA is doing better every year financially (including Europe). If DVD cases are a mistake, there is no evidence yetSorry, but that's not a valid point Let's replace some words in the sentence above: McDonalds is doing better every year financially (including Europe). If burgers-made-of-stuff-that's-not-quite-beef are a mistake, there is no evidence yet.Does that sound a valid point to you? --Pedro R. QuaresmaSalvador Caetano IMVTDiv. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information DivisionAdministração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., "Esperanza"'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Onlinehttp://www.toyota.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archivecom/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Onlinehttp://www.toyota.pt -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
I don't have more specific data handy (out of town right now), but here is a breakdown of UK sales across all platforms: 1 - NEED FOR SPEED: UNDERGROUND 2 - GRAND THEFT AUTO: DOUBLE PACK 3 - THE SIMPSONS: HIT RUN 4 - FIFA 2004 5 - LORD OF THE RINGS: RETURN OF THE KING 6 - NORTON INTERNET SECURITY 2004 7 - THE SIMS: BUSTIN' 8 - MEDAL OF HONOR: RISING SUN 9 - TONY HAWK'S UNDERGROUND 10 - TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 2004 Note that EA has 6 of the top 10 slots. Hey I love big boxes too and can make lots of comments about game quality, but it isn't hurting EA's sales in the least. Sorry to be the messenger...don't shoot me. No argument here that the console business is doing much better than the PC business right now. There are always exceptions (Sims, Blizzard games, etc.), but it will likely stay this way until closer to the end of this console cycle, and may never end. Hugh -Original Message- From: Marco Thorek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jan 21, 2004 11:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics (Darn, my reply first landed at Hugh's personal address, sorry about that) IMHO opinion that's because of console sales. Look at the numbers the PC version of a game sells. It is because of this that PC development is becoming a mere afterthought. Marco [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: EA is doing better every year financially (including Europe). If DVD cases are a mistake, there is no evidence yet. Hugh -Original Message- From: Marco Thorek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jan 20, 2004 5:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Jim Leonard schrieb: It's not the calculators: It's what makes money. You shouldn't be scared that accountants and suits are ruining the industry; instead, you should be scared that the core sales of most computer and console gaming are the way they are. It is a hard pill to swallow that adventure games simply don't sell enough units to make a profit. True. It's only that once upon a time the profit didn't matter as much. You could singlehandedly or in a duo write a game and find a publisher easy enough, even if your game was totally obscure. Nowadays profit is the prime directive and who knows better about profits than the suits? Those managers sure know a thing about finances, but apparently not much about how the creative side of this industry works. For example, whoever adviced EA to ship games in DVD cases immediately cut down production costs, but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, as there won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warez version. It is the same as with the music industry: Some managers found that instead of expensive talent scouting and sponsoring bands that might fail, they should simply manufacture boy- and girlgroups, who specifically cater to the target audience that spends the most money on its idols and music: teenagers. Now the music industry blames P2P for the slump in music sales, instead of realizing we had one too many Boyzone, Westlife, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync et. al., and no real talent in the charts for some time. Imagine Meat Loaf trying to get a record contract these days. There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth playing. I just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value. But that is the exception. True again. What also irks me as a PC gamer these days is that we are mostly given gruesome console ports. Most recent example there being Deux Ex: Invisible War. The game may be perfect for the Xbox and its audience, on the PC the graphics, the simplified story and character generation, the idiotic UI and the lack of any depth is horrifying. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I don't have more specific data handy (out of town right now), but here is a breakdown of UK sales across all platforms: 1 - NEED FOR SPEED: UNDERGROUND 2 - GRAND THEFT AUTO: DOUBLE PACK 3 - THE SIMPSONS: HIT RUN 4 - FIFA 2004 5 - LORD OF THE RINGS: RETURN OF THE KING 6 - NORTON INTERNET SECURITY 2004 7 - THE SIMS: BUSTIN' 8 - MEDAL OF HONOR: RISING SUN 9 - TONY HAWK'S UNDERGROUND 10 - TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 2004 Note that EA has 6 of the top 10 slots. Hey I love big boxes too and can make lots of comments about game quality, but it isn't hurting EA's sales in the least. Sorry to be the messenger...don't shoot me. You are correct there, but I meant PC sales specifically. And, of course, box and documentation is probably one of the reasons that influences a customer's decision to buy, but not the only one. It would be interesting to get the numbers for the cross platform titles broken down to each platform. No argument here that the console business is doing much better than the PC business right now. There are always exceptions (Sims, Blizzard games, etc.), but it will likely stay this way until closer to the end of this console cycle, and may never end. It's kinda like a spiral of death: Development of PC titles costs more than development for consoles - companies develop for consoles first and just try 1:1 conversions for the PC - PC players feel no inclination to buy games badly converted for their system - PC sales slump down - companies feel even less inclination to develop for the PC. As I said, box and packaging is just a factor in this equation, but one that shouldn't be forgotten, at least on the PC. Pirating a console game is usually harder or sometimes even impossible and normally also requires modifications to the hardware. A much larger percentage of the console audience, compared to the PC audience, doesn't seem to be willing to or not capable of going through with this. The PC crowd however knows where to get a game via P2P within days. They apply a crack and there you go. What reason do they have to buy a game? Give them something they can't download. But with console sales this fantastic, why should anyone care about the PC anyway? EA is doing very well, just as you said, and it's not thanks to the PC. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Between games being super-realistic (compared to classic games at least) and most new gamers not knowing how good a well-packaged game could be, the buyers don't know what they're missing and could probably care less. I bet these same people don't watch AMC either. Gotta love writing for that mass market/mass appeal/maximizing profit. What I *wish* happened is that big publishers take some of the profit and put it aside for risky (non-mainstream) titles. If they do this already, can anyone name some of the titles? On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:19 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have more specific data handy (out of town right now), but here is a breakdown of UK sales across all platforms: 1 - NEED FOR SPEED: UNDERGROUND 2 - GRAND THEFT AUTO: DOUBLE PACK 3 - THE SIMPSONS: HIT RUN 4 - FIFA 2004 5 - LORD OF THE RINGS: RETURN OF THE KING 6 - NORTON INTERNET SECURITY 2004 7 - THE SIMS: BUSTIN' 8 - MEDAL OF HONOR: RISING SUN 9 - TONY HAWK'S UNDERGROUND 10 - TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 2004 Note that EA has 6 of the top 10 slots. Hey I love big boxes too and can make lots of comments about game quality, but it isn't hurting EA's sales in the least. Sorry to be the messenger...don't shoot me. No argument here that the console business is doing much better than the PC business right now. There are always exceptions (Sims, Blizzard games, etc.), but it will likely stay this way until closer to the end of this console cycle, and may never end. Hugh -Original Message- From: Marco Thorek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jan 21, 2004 11:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics (Darn, my reply first landed at Hugh's personal address, sorry about that) IMHO opinion that's because of console sales. Look at the numbers the PC version of a game sells. It is because of this that PC development is becoming a mere afterthought. Marco [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: EA is doing better every year financially (including Europe). If DVD cases are a mistake, there is no evidence yet. Hugh -Original Message- From: Marco Thorek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jan 20, 2004 5:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Jim Leonard schrieb: It's not the calculators: It's what makes money. You shouldn't be scared that accountants and suits are ruining the industry; instead, you should be scared that the core sales of most computer and console gaming are the way they are. It is a hard pill to swallow that adventure games simply don't sell enough units to make a profit. True. It's only that once upon a time the profit didn't matter as much. You could singlehandedly or in a duo write a game and find a publisher easy enough, even if your game was totally obscure. Nowadays profit is the prime directive and who knows better about profits than the suits? Those managers sure know a thing about finances, but apparently not much about how the creative side of this industry works. For example, whoever adviced EA to ship games in DVD cases immediately cut down production costs, but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, as there won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warez version. It is the same as with the music industry: Some managers found that instead of expensive talent scouting and sponsoring bands that might fail, they should simply manufacture boy- and girlgroups, who specifically cater to the target audience that spends the most money on its idols and music: teenagers. Now the music industry blames P2P for the slump in music sales, instead of realizing we had one too many Boyzone, Westlife, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync et. al., and no real talent in the charts for some time. Imagine Meat Loaf trying to get a record contract these days. There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth playing. I just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value. But that is the exception. True again. What also irks me as a PC gamer these days is that we are mostly given gruesome console ports. Most recent example there being Deux Ex: Invisible War. The game may be perfect for the Xbox and its audience, on the PC the graphics, the simplified story and character generation, the idiotic UI and the lack of any depth is horrifying. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard schrieb: It's not the calculators: It's what makes money. You shouldn't be scared that accountants and suits are ruining the industry; instead, you should be scared that the core sales of most computer and console gaming are the way they are. It is a hard pill to swallow that adventure games simply don't sell enough units to make a profit. True. It's only that once upon a time the profit didn't matter as much. You could singlehandedly or in a duo write a game and find a publisher easy enough, even if your game was totally obscure. Nowadays profit is the prime directive and who knows better about profits than the suits? Those managers sure know a thing about finances, but apparently not much about how the creative side of this industry works. For example, whoever adviced EA to ship games in DVD cases immediately cut down production costs, but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, as there won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warez version. It is the same as with the music industry: Some managers found that instead of expensive talent scouting and sponsoring bands that might fail, they should simply manufacture boy- and girlgroups, who specifically cater to the target audience that spends the most money on its idols and music: teenagers. Now the music industry blames P2P for the slump in music sales, instead of realizing we had one too many Boyzone, Westlife, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync et. al., and no real talent in the charts for some time. Imagine Meat Loaf trying to get a record contract these days. There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth playing. I just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value. But that is the exception. True again. What also irks me as a PC gamer these days is that we are mostly given gruesome console ports. Most recent example there being Deux Ex: Invisible War. The game may be perfect for the Xbox and its audience, on the PC the graphics, the simplified story and character generation, the idiotic UI and the lack of any depth is horrifying. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Marco Thorek wrote: True. It's only that once upon a time the profit didn't matter as much. Yes, but the market was completely different then. There's an interview with Ken Williams on the Roberta Williams collection where he says something to the effect of In the old days, we all went on picnics and canoe trips together. But today, [1995] it's considered a smash success if you have 1% market share. My point is that up to 1985, most games sold well because the market was open. 1985-1993 saw things get crowded, and after that it all went downhill. You could singlehandedly or in a duo write a game and find a publisher easy enough, even if your game was totally obscure. Nowadays profit is the prime directive and who knows better about profits than the suits? Pretty much. The only way to make money on games nowadays is to have a runaway shareware hit, and I haven't seen one in a while. Roller Coaster Tycoon is probably the last one man wonder game we will see in our lifetimes that makes a profit. Those managers sure know a thing about finances, but apparently not much about how the creative side of this industry works. For example, whoever adviced EA to ship games in DVD cases immediately cut down production costs, but failed to realize it'll lower the number of units sold, as there won't be much left that distinguishes a bought game from a warez version. That is only true in your country. Here in the US they still ship in boxes (small boxes, but they're still boxes :) Boyzone, Westlife, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync et. al., and no real talent in the charts for some time. Imagine Meat Loaf trying to get a record contract these days. I'm not a Meatloaf fan so that was a bad example :) but I understand completely. There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth playing. I just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value. But that is the exception. True again. What also irks me as a PC gamer these days is that we are mostly given gruesome console ports. Most recent example there being Deux Ex: Invisible War. The game may be perfect for the Xbox and its audience, on the PC the graphics, the simplified story and character generation, the idiotic UI and the lack of any depth is horrifying. Don't say that! I was so looking forward to playing the sequel after having finished the original twice... -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Feldhamer, Stuart schrieb: It doesn't seem odd to me...Legend has abandoned its core competency - adventure games. IIRC Legend didn't have much choice. In the mid-90s the adventure market started to run dry and Legend had to move 3D in order to survive. Later they apparently also couldn't by themselves cope with the increasingly huge production costs per title and if GT Interactive hadn't stepped in, there might have been no more Legend Ent. much earlier. The pity in all this is that the 3D titles Legend did at first weren't exactly bad, but overlooked. And when Infogrames later bought GT Interactive, Legend wasn't much more than a name under many and the consequences we see now. I'm not sure I like all this concentration. We are almost at the point where only a few publishers dominate the market, because only heavyweights can afford to develop a game nowadays. And because these heavyweights have to make sure that a title gets in the production costs, we will see more and more games with a 2, 3, 4, 5 in the title and as much appeal to the mass market as possible. Creativity and originality is only an afterthought, once the calculators rule over the creative department of a gaming company. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Marco Thorek wrote: I'm not sure I like all this concentration. We are almost at the point where only a few publishers dominate the market, because only heavyweights can afford to develop a game nowadays. And because these heavyweights have to make sure that a title gets in the production costs, we will see more and more games with a 2, 3, 4, 5 in the title and as much appeal to the mass market as possible. Creativity and originality is only an afterthought, once the calculators rule over the creative department of a gaming company. It's not the calculators: It's what makes money. You shouldn't be scared that accountants and suits are ruining the industry; instead, you should be scared that the core sales of most computer and console gaming are the way they are. It is a hard pill to swallow that adventure games simply don't sell enough units to make a profit. There are a *few* sequels, maybe 5 a year, that are indeed worth playing. I just recently finished Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, and it was a surprisingly deep game with a lot of replay value. But that is the exception. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 15, 2004, at 11:15 AM, Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: It doesn't seem odd to me...Legend has abandoned its core competency - adventure games. If the rumors are true (Legend has been shutdown) they paid the price. :-/ -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Edward Franks wrote: On Jan 14, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote: [Snip] Me too, but it's still too arcade-ish. It didn't seem that way to me, but then I play a fair amount first person shooters. Combat seemed reasonably fluid. It is a good thing we have some variety in the genre. :-D Oh yes, no doubt. The problem is you never get all the things you want in the same game! :) Look exclusively at 2002, so many great different RPGs... nevertheless I'd love to have one with the graphics/settings/sounds of Morrowind, plus the interface/visual perspective of Divine Divinity, plus the combat/items/multiplayer system of Prince of Qin... Another flaw is the complete inbalance between magic users and melee-types. Spellcasters really get the shaft in this game. That depends on how you build your character. My wife played the mage-type where you need to be attacked by magic to 'recharge' your own magic. She did quite well in the game that way. Ah yes the Atronach sign. 85% of Morrowind's players, spellcasters or not, pick that sign! She did play through Arena with the same type of character so that may have made the difference. That's a possibility. I have started Morrowind four times, and the character I feel most comfortable with is the one I used on Arena, Daggerfall and Battlespire: the melee type with magical support aka Spellsword. Since you can enchant any item you want with any spell in the game (not to mention the scrolls), I can have a fully armored knight summonning a Daedroth and a Golden Saint, before discharging the 10 charges of Drathis Soulrot from my magical ring onto a crowd of foes. It's a bit munchkinist, but it does make the game for melee-types easier than for spellcasters. [Snip] Yes, but if I put an armor on the mage, I can take it off and my problems are solved. Now if I start a Weaponmaster wannabe with 10 int, or if I give my archer-type Fighter the knockdown feat... I guess I'm not understanding your point. Are you saying that the system should be rigid enough to stop you from making that choice? No, I'm just saying that the system is great but does have that flaw. It should _not_ stop me from doing dumb choices, but the fact is, I can make them and I have to live with them. In p'n'p you can ask your nice DM if he'll let you swap If you are then you're really wanted 1st or 2nd edition (A)DD where you can't do quite a bit. If you want a system flexible enough to allow lots of player options then you have to let the player make these types of mistakes. I agree with you that ADD 3 (and ADD 3.5) is extraordinarily flexible. Nevertheless, you originally said it was very simple, and that's where I disagreed. It's not simple for a new player to understand some basic notions like the Base Attack Bonus, Attacks of Opportunity, maximum Dex bonuses to AC, etc. I'm not trying to put Jim away from ADD3, far from it... but making a _good_ character takes time and some trial and error. I have for example played a dozen characters on Neverwinter Nights alone, and I still make mistakes when making characters.
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: extremely enjoyable. It's actually my 2nd favorite combat system ever. What's your 1st? Faery Tales Adventures 2: Halls of the Dead. Combat is turn based, but if you leave the left mouse button pressed, each turn runs faster until it becomes real time. Stop pressing left mouse button and it instantly becomes turn based again. Ever got bored at those RPGs with turn-based combat, in which your level 78 hero has to face yet another rat? Wish it would be over in a second? This combat system solves that flaw of oh so many RPGs with turn-based combat. Come on Jim, long and unusual names are a must... you can't quite have Prince Dick, Joe the White Knight or Mary the Priestess of Tony! :D Tom the Mage is ok though ;) It's not the length, it's the absurdity of the names that drives me up a wall. It is possible to go overboard in medieval speak. In my example, quoted again for humorous reference: Making the ascension of Arrogath in the land of Blesmythson requires the blessing of Gorgonax the Blargnargian during the Time of Rhyne. ..it's all the ancientspeak that drives me nuts. It's like going to hell and finding out that hell is really a Renaissance Faire where everyone talks like that, badly. Am I making sense? Yes, and I do know some games do go overboard. Nevertheless I feel it's a necessity of having some absurd names in order for the player to get in-character. I admit I'd prefer naming my character Arrogath than Pedro :) I do often use some simple names though, like Lyan, Ky, Cinir, etc. It's like being trapped in a Robert Jordan novel. I would sooner claw my own eyes out than be forced to read 10 minutes of that unending gibberish. No offense to those who like Robert Jordan :) OT: The Wheel of Time started in an interesting way, but the books did get, imho, annoying and plain boring after the 5th or so. On the other hand, if you haven't given it a go, try the extremely original George R. R. Martin's Fire and Ice series. After reading the first three books, I know I'll never be able to endure the usual 'clichés' of other typical fantasy books :) (Ironically, Wheel of Time, a game based on a Robert Jordan novel, is actually a very good game. The ancientspeak is thick and heavy but since it's an action adventure it's not as irritating.) When the game was released I was still fairly interested in RJ's books. I never got the game though because I read it had a shallow plot and basically played like a FPS.
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
I released 1.0 in 1994 I believe, and there were two minor updates to v1.2 in 1995 or 1996. It was actually one of only about 4-5 'real' shareware RPGs available at the time. Pedro Quaresma wrote: Howard, How old is The Search for Freedom? About 7 or 8 years ago, when RPGs were hard to come by, I scavenged the net for about every shareware RPG in existance, and I remember playing one that looked a lot like tSfF. Shareware RPGs... ah... those were the days! :D Pedro PS: A big Bem vindo! (Welcome!) to the other portuguese-speaking member, Tomas :) -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics *Howard Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED]* 13-01-2004 18:51 Solicita-se resposta a feldman Not to toot my own horn, but you may want to try The Search for Freedom (see my sig) - it meets most of your criteria and still works in a DOS window (albeit without sound - I havent gotten it to work with VDMsound yet either but it may be possible) So, any refinements to your suggestions? :) To everyone: This is great fun, keep the suggestions coming! -- Howard Feldman Author of the Search for Freedom Computer Role-Playing Game Visit its homepage at: http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt -- Howard Feldman Author of the Search for Freedom Computer Role-Playing Game Visit its homepage at: http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Marco Thorek wrote: Jim Leonard schrieb: (Ironically, Wheel of Time, a game based on a Robert Jordan novel, is actually a very good game. The ancientspeak is thick and heavy but since it's an action adventure it's not as irritating.) Although commercially it failed, IIRC. It was by Legend, wasn't it? Correct on both counts. Legend has had some spectacular flops recently, the most notable and recent being Unreal II. It felt flat, which is odd given that the same Legend people behind some of their best adventures in the early 1990s were behind it. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
It doesn't seem odd to me...Legend has abandoned its core competency - adventure games. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Marco Thorek wrote: Jim Leonard schrieb: (Ironically, Wheel of Time, a game based on a Robert Jordan novel, is actually a very good game. The ancientspeak is thick and heavy but since it's an action adventure it's not as irritating.) Although commercially it failed, IIRC. It was by Legend, wasn't it? Correct on both counts. Legend has had some spectacular flops recently, the most notable and recent being Unreal II. It felt flat, which is odd given that the same Legend people behind some of their best adventures in the early 1990s were behind it. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
I am a huge fan of Bob Bates, but I don't think he did that much on the Gateway games or Xanth. Likewise for Unreal 2 - I wasn't under the impression that he was that involved with the design. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: It doesn't seem odd to me...Legend has abandoned its core competency - adventure games. Yes, but with Bob Bates doing design for Unreal II, you'd think the game would have been better. I mean, he's worked on: Companions of Xanth (1993) Eric the Unready (1993) Gateway 2: Homeworld (1993) Frederik Pohl's Gateway (1992) Timequest (1991) Arthur: The Quest for Excalibur (Infocom, 1989) Sherlock: The Riddle of the Crown Jewels (Infocom, 1987) Oh well. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 15, 2004, at 4:13 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote: [Snip] Oh yes, no doubt. The problem is you never get all the things you want in the same game! :) True, but what would we collect if we had the perfect game? ;-) [Snip] Ah yes the Atronach sign. 85% of Morrowind's players, spellcasters or not, pick that sign! That's interesting. I picked the Warrior for my character's sign. [Snip] I agree with you that ADD 3 (and ADD 3.5) is extraordinarily flexible. Nevertheless, you originally said it was very simple, and that's where I disagreed. Compared to 1st edition -- which Jim mentioned -- it is. For a newcomer to DD and role-playing you are right, it is harder because you have to make a series of choices without really understanding the interplay of the options. -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
[SWCollect] Buying online items (was: [SWCollect] Modern classics)
Jim, I understand why you asked the question. My only gripe was with the expressions Stuart used, which are, imho, harsh. About paying $150 for a sword +5... I personally wouldn't do it either but It all depends on the person's budget and the raw $/hour entertainment ratio: if you pay a fiver to go to a 120m movie, it means you're paying $2.5 per hour of entertainment. If you pay $150 for a super-duper sword of monster hacking +17, you have to play that game for 60 hours to get the same $2.5 per hour, plus you can sell it back when you find the uber-leet axe of creature slaying +24... :) It varies from person to person of course... but one thing's for sure, buying an online item is better for one's health than spending the equivalent in cigars! ;) Just my $0.02 Pedro -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13-01-2004 18:03 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect Pedro Quaresma wrote: I've never bought online items but I don't see the problem in paying for things that give you a certain degree of enjoyment. I understand, but my question was geared toward trying to understand the enjoyment. For me, working hard and finally achieving a goal, beating an enemy, etc. is the fun part. My confusion was in trying to understand the motivation of people who spend $100 or more on in-game items An online item can also provide enjoyment (like the example that was given, buying an house on UO for example) and then even be resold for a profit. Yes, but given your examples, $5 for a movie or a pack of cigarettes is much different than $150 for a +5 enchanted sword or whatever. I can understand spending $5 to see a movie but I can't fathom spending $150 or more for an item. So that's why I asked. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project: http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
[SWCollect] RPG suggestions (was: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics)
From what you wrote, I think you will love D.W.Bradley's Wizardry 6 and 7. It has phased combat, it is strongly combat oriented, it is not a typical fantasy setting (it is mostly fantasy but... ok I won't spoil it for you. :) If you liked Arcanum, you'll like these two, specially Wiz7), and both have a great storyline and plot (Wizardry 6 being slightly more interesting). Wizardry 6 characters have normal names like Rebecca, Bela, King, Robin, Geoffrey... but on the other hand there's one Lord Haiyato Daikuta, Yojimbo Kaishakunin, Guardian of the 4th Order :D I played LotR before reading the books and I have to say it was an interesting experience and a motivation to read the whole Tolkien collection. On a completely different tone, I'd look back at 2002 (a golden year for RPGs -- more about this in reply to Edward's mail) and imho the best RPG of that year: Prince of Qin. Nice non typical fantasy story (it's based on true facts in medieval China, although it's fantasized), strongly combat oriented, combat is paused real time, complete item/drops randomization... it would not make it to my top 10 list of RPGs, but it's worth a look. -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13-01-2004 18:31 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect Excellent, excellent suggestions, thank you. Pedro Quaresma wrote: I have given perhaps too many suggestions :) I can be more specific if you tell me exactly what you enjoy the most on a RPG. Combat/story driven? Turn based/real time/phased/action combat? First person/3rd person perspective? Does good gfx/sound matter? Things I look for in an RPG: - turn-based combat. - combat-driven as opposed to story-driven (at least, I think I lean that way -- is Wasteland and Fallout combat-driven?) - non-typical genre. I don't prefer the typical medieval fantasy setting but I'm not opposed to it either. I prefer post-apocolyptic/nuclear aftermath settings, or something unconventional like Arcanum's steamworks and magic obscura setting (the setting alone in Arcanum was 80% of why I loved the game). I've never tried Necromancer or Mines of Titan but they seem like settings I would enjoy. - sound and graphics don't matter to me (they're a bonus if they're cleverly done, like in BT or Wasteland, but not mandatory). I'm a fan of clever sound, but I don't think it would be required in an RPG. - Not reliant on another system or rule of play. For example, I don't think I'll ever play a Hobbit/LOTR game because I haven't read the books. Same goes for Star Wars because I'm not really that into it. Original ADD I can handle because it's simple, but the new Rev 3 games scare me :). - Finally, dumb-ass fictional LONG proper nouns drive me nuts and really turn me off. Text like Making the ascension of Arrogath in the land of Blesmythson requires the blessing of Gorgonax the Blargnargian during the Time of Rhyne in a game usually has me uninstall it within minutes. :-D So, any refinements to your suggestions? :) To everyone: This is great fun, keep the suggestions coming! -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project: http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Edward Franks wrote: On Jan 13, 2004, at 12:31 PM, Jim Leonard wrote: [Snip] Things I look for in an RPG: - turn-based combat. You aren't going to find many games that do turn-based combat these days. Temple of Elemental Evil is the only one that springs to mind and that has had poor reviews. Mostly you get 'phased' combat (think Fallout's Action Points) with the ability to pause at any time. Yes the combat is pretty much like Fallout, but even better :) You get a certain number of APs for moving and then another for what is called a full action (like an attack or casting a spell), or for moving too. It's a bit complicated at first but once you get the hang of it, it's extremely enjoyable. It's actually my 2nd favorite combat system ever. ToEE did get bad reviews (mostly because it has quite some bugs without the patch) but it's a very good game, and probably best RPG of 2003. It starts slowly with mostly fedex quests, but it gets better later on within the dungeons themselves. - combat-driven as opposed to story-driven (at least, I think I lean that way -- is Wasteland and Fallout combat-driven?) - non-typical genre. I don't prefer the typical medieval fantasy setting but I'm not opposed to it either. I prefer post-apocolyptic/nuclear aftermath settings, or something unconventional like Arcanum's steamworks and magic obscura setting (the setting alone in Arcanum was 80% of why I loved the game). I've never tried Necromancer or Mines of Titan but they seem like settings I would enjoy. You might check out Morrowind. Lots of possible combat, plus the setting isn't the typical generic pseudo medieval fantasy. The current game of the year edition includes both expansions. Morrowind is a superb game, highly moddable (I run about 30 mods on my game, mostly visual effects and items) and with a very nice and original setting. On the other hand it does have two major flaws (for me): it has arcade-like combat (it's first person and you have to swing your mouse left and right to do a similar sword movement, for example), and it has no party. - sound and graphics don't matter to me (they're a bonus if they're cleverly done, like in BT or Wasteland, but not mandatory). I'm a fan of clever sound, but I don't think it would be required in an RPG. The graphics and sound are pretty good in Morrowind. You can even look up at the night sky and see the constellations mentioned in the character creation section (which gives you several different ways to create a character). Good point there: character creation on Morrowind is superb, almost as good as on its predecessor Daggerfall. It's visually stunning, specially if you have a modern gfx card in order to see pixel shading effects on the water. Its soundtrack is also excellent. - Not reliant on another system or rule of play. For example, I don't think I'll ever play a Hobbit/LOTR game because I haven't read the books. Same goes for Star Wars because I'm not really that into it. Original ADD I can handle because it's simple, but the new Rev 3 games scare me :). 3rd edition DD shouldn't scare you. It is very simple and flexible. I can't agree there. A wrong choice of a Feat or a starting stat and your character can go from uber to weakling ;) It's incredibly fun tho, specially the 3.5 edition, in which the Ranger class at last becomes useful! It is a relatively clean system that preserves the fun of the 1st edition. Then again, I thought the 2nd edition was a piece of shit. ;-) Also, one of the goals of the 3rd edition rewrite was to make the game easier to recreate in computer games. ADD from 2nd edition on had the merit of being the only class based RPG system I know in which you could mix the character classes themselves. - Finally, dumb-ass fictional LONG proper nouns drive me nuts and really turn me off. Text like Making the ascension of Arrogath in the land of Blesmythson requires the blessing of Gorgonax the Blargnargian during the Time of Rhyne in a game usually has me uninstall it within minutes. :-D There are some long proper nouns, but I don't remember that many. Then again long names don't phase me so I tend not to notice them. Come on Jim, long and unusual names are a must... you can't quite have Prince Dick, Joe the White Knight or Mary the Priestess of Tony! :D Tom the Mage is ok though ;) -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 14, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote: [Snip] Morrowind is a superb game, highly moddable (I run about 30 mods on my game, mostly visual effects and items) and with a very nice and original setting. On the other hand it does have two major flaws (for me): it has arcade-like combat (it's first person and you have to swing your mouse left and right to do a similar sword movement, for example), and it has no party. There is an option to always select the best type of attack with the weapon you are wielding. I use that. The other is a hold over from Arena and Daggerfall when Bethesda tried to model various types of attacks with various mouse movements. [Snip] I can't agree there. A wrong choice of a Feat or a starting stat and your character can go from uber to weakling ;) Bad choices are a _player_ problem, not a system problem. ;-) For example, you can put armor on your mage if you want, but your casting failure rate is going to be pretty high... -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Edward Franks wrote: On Jan 14, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote: [Snip] Morrowind is a superb game, highly moddable (I run about 30 mods on my game, mostly visual effects and items) and with a very nice and original setting. On the other hand it does have two major flaws (for me): it has arcade-like combat (it's first person and you have to swing your mouse left and right to do a similar sword movement, for example), and it has no party. There is an option to always select the best type of attack with the weapon you are wielding. I use that. Me too, but it's still too arcade-ish. Another flaw is the complete inbalance between magic users and melee-types. Spellcasters really get the shaft in this game. The other is a hold over from Arena and Daggerfall when Bethesda tried to model various types of attacks with various mouse movements. It's not that a good combat system can be implemented on a real time 1st person RPG, right? Well.. wrong :) Might Magic 7 had it :) [Snip] I can't agree there. A wrong choice of a Feat or a starting stat and your character can go from uber to weakling ;) Bad choices are a _player_ problem, not a system problem. ;-) For example, you can put armor on your mage if you want, but your casting failure rate is going to be pretty high... Yes, but if I put an armor on the mage, I can take it off and my problems are solved. Now if I start a Weaponmaster wannabe with 10 int, or if I give my archer-type Fighter the knockdown feat... -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 14, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote: [Snip] Me too, but it's still too arcade-ish. It didn't seem that way to me, but then I play a fair amount first person shooters. Combat seemed reasonably fluid. It is a good thing we have some variety in the genre. :-D Another flaw is the complete inbalance between magic users and melee-types. Spellcasters really get the shaft in this game. That depends on how you build your character. My wife played the mage-type where you need to be attacked by magic to 'recharge' your own magic. She did quite well in the game that way. She did play through Arena with the same type of character so that may have made the difference. [Snip] Yes, but if I put an armor on the mage, I can take it off and my problems are solved. Now if I start a Weaponmaster wannabe with 10 int, or if I give my archer-type Fighter the knockdown feat... I guess I'm not understanding your point. Are you saying that the system should be rigid enough to stop you from making that choice? If you are then you're really wanted 1st or 2nd edition (A)DD where you can't do quite a bit. If you want a system flexible enough to allow lots of player options then you have to let the player make these types of mistakes. -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Edward Franks wrote: You aren't going to find many games that do turn-based combat these days. Temple of Elemental Evil is the only one that springs to Who said I was looking for *modern* games? :) I figured you would know about the older ones. ;-) Touche! :-D Seriously, though, I have several holes in my knowledge, and RPGs are definitely one of them. I especially know nothing at all about most 8-bit games that came on tape only, like TRS-80/CoCo, C64/Vic20 tape, etc. My experience was mostly limited to diskette-based mediums. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Pedro Quaresma wrote: extremely enjoyable. It's actually my 2nd favorite combat system ever. What's your 1st? Come on Jim, long and unusual names are a must... you can't quite have Prince Dick, Joe the White Knight or Mary the Priestess of Tony! :D Tom the Mage is ok though ;) It's not the length, it's the absurdity of the names that drives me up a wall. It is possible to go overboard in medieval speak. In my example, quoted again for humorous reference: Making the ascension of Arrogath in the land of Blesmythson requires the blessing of Gorgonax the Blargnargian during the Time of Rhyne. ..it's all the ancientspeak that drives me nuts. It's like going to hell and finding out that hell is really a Renaissance Faire where everyone talks like that, badly. Am I making sense? It's like being trapped in a Robert Jordan novel. I would sooner claw my own eyes out than be forced to read 10 minutes of that unending gibberish. No offense to those who like Robert Jordan :) (Ironically, Wheel of Time, a game based on a Robert Jordan novel, is actually a very good game. The ancientspeak is thick and heavy but since it's an action adventure it's not as irritating.) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard schrieb: (Ironically, Wheel of Time, a game based on a Robert Jordan novel, is actually a very good game. The ancientspeak is thick and heavy but since it's an action adventure it's not as irritating.) Although commercially it failed, IIRC. It was by Legend, wasn't it? Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Sorry, but I find that kind of remark offensive. I've never bought online items but I don't see the problem in paying for things that give you a certain degree of enjoyment. Are tobacco smokers losers and idiots? Well they spend a fortune on tobacco only to see each cigar vanishing in 3 minutes or less. Are people that go to movies losers and idiots? Well, they spend a fiver to see something that it's over in an hour and a half. An online item can also provide enjoyment (like the example that was given, buying an house on UO for example) and then even be resold for a profit. I'm aware that there are some people that buy online items because they want to be uber-c00l, but those are no different from the ones that smoke because it's uber-c00l. So please don't put everyone inside the same bag. -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., Esperanza Para: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: Assunto: RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics Feldhamer, Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12-01-2004 16:03 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect It's pretty obvious, isn't it? There are so many losers in the world. There are also so many idiots in the world. Makes a pretty powerful combination. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Stefan Lindblom wrote: Diablo 2 was mentioned as well.. even though I never got around to get the Collectors ed while I was still playing, I guess I will do it someday, to honor the game I played so much. Eventually sold off my accounts last week for $290. Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but it's been bugging me: Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind selling online stuff? No, wait -- what I really mean is, can someone explain the rationale behind *buying* online accounts/items? According to my research, games are fun because you actually PLAY them. What motivates someone to actively seek out and purchase in-game items for $100, $200, or more is beyond me... -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project: http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: Please don't get me started on Planeboring: Torment. That game should never have been a RPG. Ah yes, Pedro, our resident RPG snob. ;-) If Planescape: Torment is a bad RPG by your standards, could you explain why? Is it all the dialog, or bad structure, or what? The game would make an excellent Adventure. It's got it all: a nice storyline, interesting characters, an unusual world, etc. Unfortunately, all the RPG elements are dissapointing. The character progression (class/levels) isn't varied, the quests are mostly fed-ex, the combat is imho annoying too.. So if you want a good Adventure with some annoying RPG aspects thrown in, please go ahead. If you're looking for an enjoyable RPG, I think you should look elsewhere. More importantly: If I wanted a decent story wrapped in decent RPG gameplay that isn't unreasonably hard, what RPGs over the last 20 years would you recommend? No need to go into details, titles only are fine, but as a relative RPG newbie I'd like to play something that isn't a waste of my valuable time. Ultima 6 Betrayal in Krondor Quest for Glory 4 Wizardry 6 has a fantastic story but you might consider it unreasonably hard. Lord of the Rings (Interplay, 1990) is based on the books and adds some extra quests and characters and odd twists... Here's a list of RPGs I've finished and enjoyed: Entire Pool of Radiance gold box series (all four games) Perhaps you'd enjoy the other 5 gold box games too... I think Stefan Lindblom would recommend you the Dragonlance ones. Wizardry 1 (haven't tried 2-8) If you've enjoyed Wizardry 1 then definitely you'd love Wizardry 6 and its excellent story. Fallout (haven't tried Fallout 2) Fallout 2 is imho not as good. Wasteland (my #1 favorite game of all time) Arcanum This is the 2nd Tim Cain game you mention, so perhaps you should try his latest game: Temple of Elemental Evil, released in 2003. Hack If you liked Hack, I'm sure you'd love ADOM. I got through half of Lands of Lore 1 but never finished it. That's a good game too. With that in mind, what would you recommend? I have given perhaps too many suggestions :) I can be more specific if you tell me exactly what you enjoy the most on a RPG. Combat/story driven? Turn based/real time/phased/action combat? First person/3rd person perspective? Does good gfx/sound matter? -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., Esperanza ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
My
remark was meant sort of tongue in cheek, and I certainly didn't mean to offend
anyone.I'm sure there arepeople who would label me as a "loser" for
collecting old computer programs (not to mention other things that I do).
Anyway, the comment was meant in a light-hearted tone, and I apologize to Pedro,
Stefan, and anyone else I may have offended.
Stuart
-Original Message-From: Stefan Lindblom
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004
8:01 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re:
[SWCollect] "Modern" classics
I agree with Pedro here for once. I was offended
as both a buyer and a seller. Does that make me an idiot or a loser or maybe
both?
Many might be, I agree. But for each and every
case there are circumstances that should be taken into consideration. It's
very easy to smack a label on a person, without knowing him or
her.
Sorry Stuart, I found that a very unnecessary
remark.
/Stefan
- Original Message -
From:
Pedro
Quaresma
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 11:06
AM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] "Modern"
classics
Sorry, but I find that kind
of remark offensive. I've never
bought "online items" but I don't see the problem in paying for things that
give you a certain degree of enjoyment. Are tobacco smokers "losers" and "idiots"? Well they spend a fortune
on tobacco only to see each cigar vanishing in 3 minutes or less.
Are people that go to movies
"losers" and "idiots"? Well, they spend a fiver to see something that it's
over in an hour and a half. An
online item can also provide enjoyment (like the example that was given,
buying an house on UO for example) and then even be resold for a
profit.I'm aware that there are
some people that buy online items because they want to be "uber-c00l", but
those are no different from the ones that smoke because it's
"uber-c00l". So please don't put
everyone inside the same bag. --Pedro R. QuaresmaSalvador Caetano IMVTDiv. Sistemas
de Informação / Systems and Information DivisionAdministração e
Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and
Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext.
3492)Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km.,
"Esperanza"
Para:
"'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A/C: Ref: cc:
Assunto: RE: [SWCollect]
"Modern" classics
"Feldhamer, Stuart"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12-01-2004 16:03
Solicita-se resposta a
swcollect It's pretty obvious, isn't it? There are so
many losers in the world. Thereare also so many idiots in the world.
Makes a pretty powerful combination.Stuart-Original
Message-From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent:
Monday, January 12, 2004 11:00 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:
Re: [SWCollect] "Modern" classicsStefan Lindblom wrote:
Diablo 2 was mentioned as well.. even though I never got around to get
the Collectors ed while I was still playing, I guess I will do it
someday, to honor the game I played so much. Eventually sold off my
accounts last week for $290.Sorry this is a bit off-topic,
but it's been bugging me: Can someone explain to me the reasoning
behind selling online stuff? No, wait -- what I really mean is,
can someone explain the rationale behind *buying* online accounts/items?
According to my research, games are fun because you actually PLAY
them. What motivates someone to actively seek out and purchase
in-game items for $100, $200, or more is beyond me...-- Jim Leonard
([EMAIL PROTECTED])World's largest electronic gaming project:
http://www.MobyGames.com/A delicious slice of the demoscene:
http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:
http://www.oldskool.org/--This
message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed tothe
swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe
swcollect'Archives are available
at:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Information
in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change
without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for
accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal
trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale.
CIBC World Markets Corp, its
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Edward Franks wrote: You aren't going to find many games that do turn-based combat these days. Temple of Elemental Evil is the only one that springs to mind and Who said I was looking for *modern* games? :) Thanks for the Morrowind suggestion. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
I would also look into so-called turn-based strategy games such as Jagged Alliance. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Edward Franks wrote: You aren't going to find many games that do turn-based combat these days. Temple of Elemental Evil is the only one that springs to mind and Who said I was looking for *modern* games? :) Thanks for the Morrowind suggestion. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Edward Franks wrote: The Roberta Williams Anthology. Really? How much is this going for? Tom told me the same thing but I find it hard to believe... A number of the collector's/limited editions are ok (for example, Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale II, Morrowind, or Pool of Radiance), but they don't elicit that I must always have this feeling that the above collector's editions do. Pool of Radiance was a massive disappointment -- it's so terrible that you want to erase it and go back to the original from 1988 -- that I can't believe it would be considered collectable. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Stefan Lindblom wrote: Diablo 2 was mentioned as well.. even though I never got around to get the Collectors ed while I was still playing, I guess I will do it someday, to honor the game I played so much. Eventually sold off my accounts last week for $290. Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but it's been bugging me: Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind selling online stuff? No, wait -- what I really mean is, can someone explain the rationale behind *buying* online accounts/items? According to my research, games are fun because you actually PLAY them. What motivates someone to actively seek out and purchase in-game items for $100, $200, or more is beyond me... -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: Anywhere from $100-$200. This one is actually worth something to me (but not that much), as it has the first quasi-IBM-releases of Mission Asteroid, Dark Crystal, Mystery House, etc. But they're just Apple .DSK images running in an emulator. That is *NOT* what I would call an IBM release, not by a longshot. There are actual IBM releases of Ulysses, Serenia, etc. -- those are worth something. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Yeah, I know. That's why I said quasi. But at least it's an official emulator release. BTW, I didn't know there was an IBM release of Ulysses. Does anyone have it? On the same note, I had heard there was an IBM release of Time Zone, but I've yet to see one. Does anyone have that? Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: Anywhere from $100-$200. This one is actually worth something to me (but not that much), as it has the first quasi-IBM-releases of Mission Asteroid, Dark Crystal, Mystery House, etc. But they're just Apple .DSK images running in an emulator. That is *NOT* what I would call an IBM release, not by a longshot. There are actual IBM releases of Ulysses, Serenia, etc. -- those are worth something. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: Yeah, I know. That's why I said quasi. But at least it's an official emulator release. BTW, I didn't know there was an IBM release of Ulysses. Does anyone have it? On the same note, I had heard there was an IBM release of Time Zone, but I've yet to see one. Does anyone have that? I'm pretty sure there was no IBM release of Time Zone. I personally own the IBM release of Ulysses. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Wow. I did not know that. Is the game available somewhere online for download? The IBM version, I mean. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: Yeah, I know. That's why I said quasi. But at least it's an official emulator release. BTW, I didn't know there was an IBM release of Ulysses. Does anyone have it? On the same note, I had heard there was an IBM release of Time Zone, but I've yet to see one. Does anyone have that? I'm pretty sure there was no IBM release of Time Zone. I personally own the IBM release of Ulysses. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
I ran a successful business selling items for Asheron's Call for about 2 years; had a webstore and all. I actually quit my job to do it, and I subtracted several people to help make a great selection available at all times.. it was fun while it lasted. But of course, as with any online rpg, the economy slowly gets saturated and eventually the value of most of the bread and butter products drop below the point of good profit. - Original Message - From: Stefan Lindblom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics I usually mumble something about lazy americans with too much money on their hands whenever it comes to buying online stuff :) The few people I have sold the big lots to have always been very nice though, but every now and then one of them 14-year-olds using their mother's or sister's Ebay account comes along. I guess in their eyes, games are fun when you can OWN your opponent in PvP or just show off all their great stuff to their friends. Hmm well, I guess I liked that part as well but not the extent of buying items myself. Although I was close of buying a very well situated house in Ultima Online some 3 years back, gave up at $75 though. I dont know, for me it's just a little extra income when I finally decide to quit a game, got just as much when I quit UO many years back(although I did come back). /Stefan - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Stefan Lindblom wrote: Diablo 2 was mentioned as well.. even though I never got around to get the Collectors ed while I was still playing, I guess I will do it someday, to honor the game I played so much. Eventually sold off my accounts last week for $290. Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but it's been bugging me: Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind selling online stuff? No, wait -- what I really mean is, can someone explain the rationale behind *buying* online accounts/items? According to my research, games are fun because you actually PLAY them. What motivates someone to actively seek out and purchase in-game items for $100, $200, or more is beyond me... -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics
I'm not much of an RPG gamer but I loved the original Pool of Radiance and sequels. I'd say try some of the early Ultima games; they are strong on characters, setting, and gameplay (in general). I've played and finished Ultimas 3 and 5. My only complaint is they get way too difficult towards the end (especially 5). I would also recommend the Baldur's Gate series. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 12:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Pedro Quaresma wrote: Please don't get me started on Planeboring: Torment. That game should never have been a RPG. Ah yes, Pedro, our resident RPG snob. ;-) If Planescape: Torment is a bad RPG by your standards, could you explain why? Is it all the dialog, or bad structure, or what? More importantly: If I wanted a decent story wrapped in decent RPG gameplay that isn't unreasonably hard, what RPGs over the last 20 years would you recommend? No need to go into details, titles only are fine, but as a relative RPG newbie I'd like to play something that isn't a waste of my valuable time. Here's a list of RPGs I've finished and enjoyed: Entire Pool of Radiance gold box series (all four games) Wizardry 1 (haven't tried 2-8) Fallout (haven't tried Fallout 2) Wasteland (my #1 favorite game of all time) Arcanum Hack I got through half of Lands of Lore 1 but never finished it. With that in mind, what would you recommend? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
If you like Wasteland, you absolutely MUST try the Bard's Tale series
(III is the best, but the others are great too) and Dragon Wars ('Bard's
Tale IV'). You might also try Fountain of Dreams, the real sequel to
Wasteland. You've also got another 5 gold box games to go
Entire Pool of Radiance gold box series (all four games)
Wizardry 1 (haven't tried 2-8)
Fallout (haven't tried Fallout 2)
Wasteland (my #1 favorite game of all time)
Arcanum
Hack
I got through half of Lands of Lore 1 but never finished it.
With that in mind, what would you recommend?
--
Howard Feldman
Author of the Search for Freedom Computer Role-Playing Game
Visit its homepage at: http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman
--
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Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 12, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: Please don't get me started on Planeboring: Torment. That game should never have been a RPG. Ah yes, Pedro, our resident RPG snob. ;-) If Planescape: Torment is a bad RPG by your standards, could you explain why? Is it all the dialog, or bad structure, or what? More importantly: If I wanted a decent story wrapped in decent RPG gameplay that isn't unreasonably hard, what RPGs over the last 20 years would you recommend? If you like Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic by Bioware is pretty good. Without spoiling anything, I did like how they used one of the key plot elements. Besides, where else can you force choke insolents fools? About Planescape, to me one of the strengths of any genre is its diversity. RPGs do better when there is a variety of games to tempt people. All, say, Ultima clones or Diablo clones will kill the market. Just look at how Adventure games have struggled to move beyond Myst. Even Cyan had problems doing that. I want my hack-n-slash RPGs. I want my goodie-two-shoe RPGs. I want my magic-n-guns RPGs. I want my eat-hot-photons-mutant! RPGs. I want my pot-boiler DD RPGs. I want my quirky character driven RPG games. :-D -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 12, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Feldhamer, Stuart wrote: I'm not much of an RPG gamer but I loved the original Pool of Radiance and sequels. I'd say try some of the early Ultima games; they are strong on characters, setting, and gameplay (in general). I've played and finished Ultimas 3 and 5. My only complaint is they get way too difficult towards the end (especially 5). I would also recommend the Baldur's Gate series. If you have the hard drive space and inclination there is a utility called BG1Tutu (Baldur's Gate 1 to 2) that allows you to play BG1 using the BG2 engine. I'm playing through BG1 right now using this way. The benefit is that you get the extras from BG2 (character kits, higher screen resolution, full screen mode, etc.). The downside is that you need to have both BG1 and BG2 installed at the same time. That's around 5 to 6 gigs of hard drive space. Not much when you can now buy external *terabyte* drives, but if you have an older machine or use a laptop it can be a problem. Interestingly enough there is also a Mac version of the same utility if you want to play BG1 in OS X. -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard schrieb: Marco Thorek wrote: I'm not sure if we had this topic before, but what modern games, say, developed after 1994, would you consider collectible? Collectible meaning high monetary/trade value or game worth owning until end of time because it is a *good* game? In this case high monetary value. I loved the Ultima series, but you could pull my nails and I wouldn't say that U9 was a great game. Still U9's Dragon Edition seems to be looked for. For value there are the common answers: Ultima compilations, Elder Scrolls series, Neverhood. Elder Scrolls, ok, but value you'll only get for the titles before 1994. Redguard and Morrowind are already pretty common. May we say that most titles nowadays are produced in too large numbers to ever become collectible? I just picked up CDs and manuals only (no box) for $14. I've heard it's great. Oh, definitely. You'll really be in for a treat. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard schrieb: Pedro Quaresma wrote: Please don't get me started on Planeboring: Torment. That game should never have been a RPG. Ah yes, Pedro, our resident RPG snob. ;-) If Planescape: Torment is a bad RPG by your standards, could you explain why? Is it all the dialog, or bad structure, or what? Now, that'd interest me too. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Marco Thorek stated: So, it seems that besides what Edward said about people buying their status to get an easy start, others also lose all rationalism over the game. The game becomes more important than life itself. In those people's minds buying anything, for whatever amount, that brings the character forward may be justified. What about games that actually intrude on real life? I remember reading a description of an upcoming MMRTS that said the game (or rather, your soldiers and citizens) could e-mail and/or page you if, for instance, you were unexpectedly attacked. This was a few years ago and I can't remember the name of it! Anybody know? I believe the setting of each game was a fictional planet with technology somewhere in the vicinity of WWII to present, but I may be wrong. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Stephane Racle wrote: If I recall, the real sequel to Wasteland was called Mean Time and was never released. Something about the project being abandoned... perhaps someone here knows how much work was actually done on it? I'm going from memory here, I could be wrong. You're correct; http://wasteland.rockdud.net/meantime.html has more info. The project got as far as an Apple prototype. However, it turned out to be just another game using its engine, like Foutain of Dreams. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Good info, too bad it never happened! As far as modern games go, I would consider some of the Tex Murphy adventures as classics. Overseer was a bit of a let-down (I think it was the first game ever on DVD, however, which makes it somewhat interesting), but Under A Killing Moon and The Pandora Directive are good. Particularly Pandora... it's actually more than good. It's an excellent game, and unlike many modern ones, it takes more than a day or two to complete! I'm not sure how much these go for on eBay, although I know Martian Memorandum regularly sells for $30-$50. Jim Leonard wrote: Stephane Racle wrote: If I recall, the real sequel to Wasteland was called Mean Time and was never released. Something about the project being abandoned... perhaps someone here knows how much work was actually done on it? I'm going from memory here, I could be wrong. You're correct; http://wasteland.rockdud.net/meantime.html has more info. The project got as far as an Apple prototype. However, it turned out to be just another game using its engine, like Foutain of Dreams. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Lee K. Seitz wrote: Marco Thorek stated: So, it seems that besides what Edward said about people buying their status to get an easy start, others also lose all rationalism over the game. The game becomes more important than life itself. In those people's minds buying anything, for whatever amount, that brings the character forward may be justified. What about games that actually intrude on real life? I remember reading a description of an upcoming MMRTS that said the game (or rather, your soldiers and citizens) could e-mail and/or page you if, for instance, you were unexpectedly attacked. This was a few years ago and I can't remember the name of it! Anybody know? I believe the setting of each game was a fictional planet with technology somewhere in the vicinity of WWII to present, but I may be wrong. Not sure about that, but of course there was the miserable failure of Majestic (http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,3/gameId,5282/ for more info, including a review by our own CEForman) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard schrieb: Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but it's been bugging me: Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind selling online stuff? No, wait -- what I really mean is, can someone explain the rationale behind *buying* online accounts/items? According to my research, games are fun because you actually PLAY them. What motivates someone to actively seek out and purchase in-game items for $100, $200, or more is beyond me... Well since I've actually run a business in this field, I can answer that very simply. In many cases, the items and character you use in these games do have an impact on the amount of fun possible - esp on PvP servers. MANY people, I learned, who have demanding jobs but love games simply dont have the TONS of hours that most MMOLRPGs require, so when they do get to play, they don't want to spend it being a newbie. It worked great for me, since I had no money and all the time in the world, while my customers had the money to spend very limited free time :) A perfect match. Brad -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Jim Leonard stated: Lee K. Seitz wrote: What about games that actually intrude on real life? I remember reading a description of an upcoming MMRTS that said the game (or rather, your soldiers and citizens) could e-mail and/or page you if, for instance, you were unexpectedly attacked. This was a few years ago and I can't remember the name of it! Anybody know? I believe the setting of each game was a fictional planet with technology somewhere in the vicinity of WWII to present, but I may be wrong. Not sure about that, but of course there was the miserable failure of Majestic (http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,3/gameId,5282/ for more info, including a review by our own CEForman) Nope, that's not it, but thanks for mentioning it. The name sounds familiar, but that's about it. (And tell us how you really feel, C.E. 8) ) If it helps, I remember a little bit more about the game. You could schedule attacks to be launched against your opponent(s) when you weren't even online. (They might not go as well then, though.) Uh, I thought I could remember more, but that seems to be it. For all I know it was never released in the end. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
As both a loser and an idiot, I was deeply offended by that statement. B-) - Original Message - From: Feldhamer, Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Modern classics It's pretty obvious, isn't it? There are so many losers in the world. There are also so many idiots in the world. Makes a pretty powerful combination. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics Stefan Lindblom wrote: Diablo 2 was mentioned as well.. even though I never got around to get the Collectors ed while I was still playing, I guess I will do it someday, to honor the game I played so much. Eventually sold off my accounts last week for $290. Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but it's been bugging me: Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind selling online stuff? No, wait -- what I really mean is, can someone explain the rationale behind *buying* online accounts/items? According to my research, games are fun because you actually PLAY them. What motivates someone to actively seek out and purchase in-game items for $100, $200, or more is beyond me... -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
Not sure about that, but of course there was the miserable failure of Majestic (http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,3/gameId,5282/ for more info, including a review by our own CEForman) Nope, that's not it, but thanks for mentioning it. The name sounds familiar, but that's about it. (And tell us how you really feel, C.E. 8) ) I'd forgotten about this one... Does it seem like I do an awful lot of bitching about stuff? -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 12, 2004, at 8:38 PM, Lee K. Seitz wrote: [Snip] Nope, that's not it, but thanks for mentioning it. The name sounds familiar, but that's about it. (And tell us how you really feel, C.E. 8) ) If it helps, I remember a little bit more about the game. You could schedule attacks to be launched against your opponent(s) when you weren't even online. (They might not go as well then, though.) Uh, I thought I could remember more, but that seems to be it. For all I know it was never released in the end. Planetside? -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
[SWCollect] Modern classics
I'm not sure if we had this topic before, but what modern games, say, developed after 1994, would you consider collectible? There's only a very few that come to my mind: - The Dragon Edition of Ultima IX. Although it was the worst Ultima IMHO, people seem to look for this edition. - Planescape: Torment. Due to the lack of sales back then, hence comparably small quantities are available, and the legendary status it is gaining ever since, many people now seem to try to get a hold of it. Personally I consider it the greatest RPG I played so far. - Independence War (or I-War). Another game that was largely overlooked and is now being sought for its status as the most realistic space simulation. And that's already where my list ends. There may be other games; the above are only those I personally own and who I follow losely via their fanbase and on ebay. Collector's editions may also come to mind, but as I saw a Baldur's Gate II collector's edition go on ebay for about $25 just recently, that may not be a decisive criteria. Do you know any other? Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Modern classics
On Jan 10, 2004, at 9:13 PM, Marco Thorek wrote: I'm not sure if we had this topic before, but what modern games, say, developed after 1994, would you consider collectible? There's only a very few that come to my mind: - The Dragon Edition of Ultima IX. Although it was the worst Ultima IMHO, people seem to look for this edition. - Planescape: Torment. Due to the lack of sales back then, hence comparably small quantities are available, and the legendary status it is gaining ever since, many people now seem to try to get a hold of it. Personally I consider it the greatest RPG I played so far. It is a lovely game. Lots of good, intelligent dialog. It reminded me of the good days of text adventures. - Independence War (or I-War). Another game that was largely overlooked and is now being sought for its status as the most realistic space simulation. And that's already where my list ends. There may be other games; the above are only those I personally own and who I follow losely via their fanbase and on ebay. Collector's editions may also come to mind, but as I saw a Baldur's Gate II collector's edition go on ebay for about $25 just recently, that may not be a decisive criteria. Definitely the Wing Commander III Premiere Edition in the film can. The Roberta Williams Anthology. The Ultima Online Charter Edition. The Neverwinter Nights Collector's Edition just because of how much stuff you get with the game. I would also watch any over-sized box collector's editions that had more than just a cloth map. Maybe the Diablo 2 Collector's Edition just because Diablo 2 was a monster hit. A number of the collector's/limited editions are ok (for example, Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale II, Morrowind, or Pool of Radiance), but they don't elicit that I must always have this feeling that the above collector's editions do. Also, while these aren't collector's editions per se, I do like the tins that Return to Castle Wolfenstein came in. I was so-so about the Quake III tin -- probably because I was so-so about the game -- but the RtCW tin just seem to fit the game. -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
