[WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff? Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take contrary positions to the rest of the members and side with big brother and encourage the feds to

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
I don't know Mark, why don't you go do something about it. George Mark Koskenmaki wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff? Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take contrary

Notice to the Board..... Was: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Bob Moldashel
Sheesh.Here we go again. WISPA needs a Prescription plan with automatic renewals and 24 hour nursing so members will take their medication on time. Also looks like WISPA needs to fire that new Crystal Ball Reader they just hired. Another attack on the industry just got by us

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread David E. Smith
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff? Personally, I'm counting on it, so I can get the company to buy me that multi-terabyte NAS I've always wanted. I'm running out of disk space at home to store all my pr0n. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA

RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mac Dearman
I wouldn't imagine that this responsibility would fall on us WISPs, but to our upstream providers like BellSouth...etc. Why would they want to deal with the 20,000 piss ants of the world when all they have to do is back up stream two hops and catch all the traffic? Common sense tells me this will

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the last mile provider to log it all, so as to bankrupt the competition. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast

RE: Notice to the Board..... Was: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mac Dearman
DANG MAN!! I can't believe the board is paying for a Tarot card reader - - is she still alive? Or do y'all consult her from the grave? I ask this because if you are consulting her from the grave you better be careful as George Carlin was showing up here a while back in place of our dead Tarot

RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mac Dearman
You have enough clients that it would bankrupt you to build a server to log your HTTP SMTP traffic? I don't think it would be that difficult or expensive, but agree that it would be a major PITA! I am pretty sure we will never be faced with this as the majority of us aren't reliable enough to

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Because Im personna non grata with WISPA and Part-15. I don't share the same political goals, and as such, I'm not in any position to do squat. After being threatened by both WISPA people and Part-15 people, being told to shut up and go away, I don't figure I have much influence around either

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? You have enough clients that it would bankrupt you to build a server to log your HTTP SMTP

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler
I doubt that my upstream provider has any records of my customer IP assignments, so it is my belief that any records keeping and logging would fall on me. I'm not big but I do NOT consider my operation as being run by piss ants either. Do you consider the majority of WISP's to be run by piss

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
Mark I didn't realize you were persona non grata with wispa. It's the first that I have heard this. I do think that you do have a radical political belief and I think that the wireless lists are generally not interested in discussing politics because it is so divisive. But, if you or any

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
I was assuming the same thing. I thought that European isps were already required to do this. George Mac Dearman wrote: I wouldn't imagine that this responsibility would fall on us WISPs, but to our upstream providers like BellSouth...etc. Why would they want to deal with the 20,000 piss ants

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler
Just try and imagine how much storage you would require for 2 years worth of traffic. Guys are joking about it being good so they can get the Terabyte server they always wanted. How about when they have to buy 50 of them? Also consider the task of assigning IP addresses and maintaining that

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
- Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? Mark I didn't realize you were persona non grata with wispa. It's the first that I have heard

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Pete Davis
If/when the feds require it, I guess the way to do it would be to run Ethereal in fully promiscuous mode on a mirrored port on a switch and streaming it to server over the FBI's T1 to their server. When the Federal government installs their T1 to my NOC, I would be willing to upload it to them

RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mac Dearman
Lonnie, When I used the term piss ant it was referring to the working guys of this business. We all know how the ants work :-) doggedly for a small portion of the whole. Once again, I think its ridiculous to even think that the Feds would allow us - or put on us - - the responsibility of

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
It may seem like a 'no brainer' to you, but since when did an idea being brain-dead-stupid stop the government from trying or actually enforcing it? There is one common thread that runs through all things government does when it is seeking to help the common folk - a complete and total lack of

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Larry Yunker
It may seem like a 'no brainer' to you, but since when did an idea being brain-dead-stupid stop the government from trying or actually enforcing it? There is one common thread that runs through all things government does when it is seeking to help the common folk - a complete and total lack

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Sam Tetherow
The problem here Mac is that for the bells to be able to provide the information to the FBI they are going to have to be able to tie that IP address to an individual (your customer) so in the best case scenario you will have to keep track of what IP is mapped to which customer for any given

Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Virtual AP

2006-06-04 Thread David Sovereen
Hi Paul, With Nstreme, at least as I use it with polling, there is not a way to see retransmits. I mentioned this in my previous post: You can quantify the number of retransmits on a per-client basis in Mikrotik APs operating in 802.11a/b/g mode (but not Nstreme) by going to Wireless -

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Sam Tetherow
Pete is right, there is no way that historical information will pass evidence requirements which makes it pointless once the first case is tried. I'll go further though and say that it won't pass it's first constitutional challenge. It would be one thing to say we have to keep records of

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Butch Evans
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff? Why aren't YOU doing something about it? Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take contrary positions to the rest of the members and side with big Hmmm, it

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Butch Evans
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the last mile provider to log it all, so as to bankrupt the competition. Common sense tells ME that if it were going to affect ME, to the point of bankrupcy, the I would be doing

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Butch Evans
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Because Im personna non grata with WISPA and Part-15. Perhaps it's your winning personality? I don't know...maybe it's something else. I don't share the same political goals, and as such, I'm not in any position to do squat. You don't have a

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Butch Evans
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: I'm not big but I do NOT consider my operation as being run by piss ants either. Do you consider the majority of WISP's to be run by piss ants and not worthy of any recognition and responsibility? I sincerely hope not because I have no desire to

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
The problem with all of this is that most ISP's wireless or land line historically do not get involved in a trade association and work together for the common good. Land line ISP's didn't join together and wisps are not joining together either. Here WISPA has been created and hardly anyone

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
Thank you very much. As for work groups, YES Butch, even YOU a NON wisp can join in a work group and contribute. I will say once again, If ANYONE in our industry can come up with a work group, wisp centric that will help our industry and our wisps, we would WELCOME you to do so and create

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Blair Davis
Did anyone READ the link? They are NOT asking us to archive content, but IP addresses of sites browsed to, e-mail sent to and so on. Not content. If Congress is going to be asked to pass legislation ordering Internet providers to retain data they won't be asked for content of that data but

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Peter R.
If it would be a huge burden to small businesses, then the SBA can file under the Small Business Burden Act (forget what it is actually called). The federal gov't cannot create regulations that would be a hardship for SMB owners. BTW, imagine having 2M BB users and how much space that would

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Peter R.
Actually, the ACLU declined to meet with the AG FBI saying basically You have got to be kidding. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Did anyone notice that the ACLU hasn't peeped a negative word against requiring the logging of all internet use by individuals? We're on our own, as individuals, as

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Peter R.
All of this is pedantic. It seems consensus is this is a crazy idea. Everyone agrees. Problems: Hardship. Too much info. No chain of evidence. Unsecure. No space or time. Unreasonable. Who do we send the letter to? I'll help a board member or Mark K. compose one. Regards, Peter -- WISPA

Re: [WISPA] ISP Associations (was Why's WISPA silent about this)

2006-06-04 Thread Peter R.
George, Welcome to my world. A world where ISP's bitch about everything, but take little action. A world where the ISP associations are supposed to miraculously handle everything with little budget and a even less manpower. (You are experiencing this now in WISPA). FISPA, AASP, II4A and the

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? - small ISPs built

2006-06-04 Thread Peter R.
Not only true in DC, but to the general public as well, Larry. Larry Yunker wrote: I doubt quite seriously that any heads of executive branch departments realize that broadband/internet services are sometimes/often? provided by companies with a staff of less than ten and gross revenues less

[WISPA] Template - edit as see fit

2006-06-04 Thread Peter R.
If writing to Senators or House Representatives: The Honorable (full name) Date Your name Your company’s name Your address line 1 Your address line 2 City, State, Zip Dear Senator (last name): —OR— Dear Representative (last name): As your constituent, with a vested interest in the protection

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? - ACTION

2006-06-04 Thread Peter R.
I don't think anyone believes you will go Quietly :) However, when you make that noise, are you aiming it at your Congress Critter? Or just into the ether that is a listserv? In the time it took to write and read the 30 or so posts on the subject, you could have written a press release or

Re: [WISPA] Template - edit as see fit

2006-06-04 Thread Larry Yunker
I like the form except that I think you are short-changing the industry by quoting 1000 providers. I suspect that there are still tens of thousands of ISPs and probably a few thousand WISPs. - Larry - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List

Fw: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? - small ISPs built

2006-06-04 Thread Larry Yunker
Not only true in DC, but to the general public as well, Larry. Excuse the language... but it seems appropriate... Sh*t flows downhill --- Washington -- Media -- Public - Larry Larry Yunker wrote: I doubt quite seriously that any heads of executive branch departments realize that

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Peter, I'd tend to agree with you... but think about this: How many lawsuits have been filed against people for music swapping, purely on the basis of ISP logs? If I HAD any logs of customer activity ( I do not ) I would disclaim them immediately - by responding that I have no conflidence in the

[WISPA] someone's harvesting this list

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
for addresses and spamming us. (sigh) North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - --

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
--- - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? 2 diferent issues at hand

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
I could be wrong but as I have followed this thread there are 2 issues at hand. 1) Does the government have a right to know the actions of Americans on the internet? 2) Is this a responsibility of the ISP to bear the burden of gathering this information or should the burden be carried by

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Sam Tetherow
Then it is a boondoggle. All of the web traffic will be to some off-shore proxy. The same with email. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Blair Davis wrote: Did anyone READ the link? They are NOT asking us to archive content, but IP addresses of sites browsed to, e-mail sent to and so

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? 2 diferent issues at hand

2006-06-04 Thread Sam Tetherow
While I agree with your breakdown and the general statement that #1 should be decided on by the country as a whole. I think it is up to us as an industry that understands the implications of what is being asked for to make a statement about #1 even if it is just a clarification of the

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread David Sovereen
Many of you seem to be of the belief that the proposed bill requires you to keep records of the content of subscribers. Simply put, that isNOT THE CASE. While I do not know the specific details of the various proposals, I do know that none of them are expecting ISPs to keep copies of

[WISPA] FW: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006

2006-06-04 Thread JohnnyO
Title: Message Anyone Else receiving these from these pricks ? JohnnyO -Original Message-From: APGWireless Info [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:18 PMTo: 'Chris Russell'Cc: WISPA General ListSubject: RE: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006 Please do

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

2006-06-04 Thread Butch Evans
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why aren't YOU doing something about it? What DO you want me to do? What do _I_ want you to do? Do what you seem to expect others to do on your behalf, which you seem to think they are not/will not do! I was sold on the notion that we should

Re: [WISPA] FW: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006

2006-06-04 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler
If you object to spam as much as you say you do, then why on earth would you send that spam to a list? Get a clue. Also, watch your language.LonnieOn 6/4/06, JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone Else receiving these from these pricks ? JohnnyO -Original Message-From:

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? 2 diferent issues at hand

2006-06-04 Thread Butch Evans
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, George Rogato wrote: 1) Does the government have a right to know the actions of Americans on the internet? This is not really at issue. At least it is not really of any concern for us here. 2) Is this a responsibility of the ISP to bear the burden of gathering this

Re: [WISPA] FM Remote Broadcast over Wireless (RBOW ?)

2006-06-04 Thread Jack Unger
Jeromie, Don't know budget or bitrate but I'll pass the Winamp/Shoutcast suggestion along. THANKS! jack Jeromie Reeves wrote: What is the budget on this? Does it need to be stereo or high bitrate? 2 PC's with sound cards running winamp/shoutcast would do it. A network MP# player +

RE: [WISPA] FW: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006

2006-06-04 Thread JohnnyO
Title: Message Ahhh my old good friend Lonnie :) How are you these days ? Get a clue . I did - don't buy from Canadian companies - they'll bend you over every chance they get :) Prick : please see http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prickfor a better run down on the term

Re: [WISPA] FW: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006

2006-06-04 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler
To the Board: Is this behaviour condoned? Not only did he spam the list and use offensive language, but he now slanders all Canadian companies. Lonnie On 6/4/06, JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahhh my old good friend Lonnie :) How are you these days ? Get a clue . I did - don't buy

RE: [WISPA] FW: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006

2006-06-04 Thread JohnnyO
Lonnie - my experiences and my opinions of Canadian companies are that of my own. Apparently you're looking to make an ass out of both you and I or else you wouldn't have responded the way you did Slander - not even close. I KNOW DragonWave Harvested this list - Just like Tranzeo has

Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? 2 diferent issues at hand

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
Butch, Most likely wispa will act on this. But, ultimately, it comes down to does the membership of wispa want to do this. I don't mean to be rude, but shouldn't the paying members that make up the wispa membership decide what wispa acts on or not? It's not that I disagree with any of this,

Re: [WISPA] FW: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
I just want to know if the stole your girlfriend. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prick George JohnnyO wrote: Lonnie - my experiences and my opinions of Canadian companies are that of my own. Apparently you're looking to make an ass out of both you and I or else you wouldn't

Re: [WISPA] FW: See what's new at DragonWave @ WCA 2006

2006-06-04 Thread George Rogato
At least you apologized Johnny, but it does get old watching people fight. Can't you guys just agree to not get along and ignore each other? George JohnnyO wrote: Lonnie - my experiences and my opinions of Canadian companies are that of my own. Apparently you're looking to make an ass out of