Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation

Hi Ed, Ah I see, I googled for the wrong word :-) I think 'kerfuffles between' would be more like it. Siska -Original Message- From: "ED" Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 17:08:39 To: Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] R

[Zen] Re: Liberation

Hi Siska, Either shenanigans in or kerfuffles between. ;-) --Ed Synonyms for shenanigans: Main Entry: naughtiness Part of Speech: noun Definition: misbehavior Synonyms: acting up, fault, horseplay, immorality, impropriety, incivility, indiscipline, insubordination, mischief, mi

[Zen] Re: Liberation

Hi Rose, Either shenanigans in or kerfuffles between. ;-) --Ed Synonyms for shenanigans: Main Entry: naughtiness Part of Speech: noun Definition: misbehavior Synonyms: acting up, fault, horseplay, immorality, impropriety, incivility, indiscipline, insubordination, mischief, misco

Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation

Hi Ed, What is shenanigans in? siska -Original Message- From: "ED" Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 17:35:12 To: Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Re: Liberation 'Amen!' requires an end. Is there ever an *end* to th

Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation II

Dr. Austin's work is of more interest to the person seeking a scientific understanding of the brain than to a person seeking to experience Zen training for themselves. Though, Bill, I'm sure if we wrote all of your interesting and helpful posts on this forum together into one piece, it would be hu

[Zen] Re: Liberation III

JMJM, You may be quite right as per SGI's viewpoint. The Concept of Equality in the Lotus Sutra: The SGI's Viewpoint ---ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: > > ... "Absolute Equality" is a state of being and not a biography,

[Zen] Re: Liberation III

Hi Mel, As Ed responded, "Absolute Equality" is a state of being and not a biography, or a personality. It is well documented in Buddhist sutras. All three posts about Liberation is about our inner state of being, and not externally manifested form, which are impermanent and relative at best

[Zen] Re: Liberation III

As far as 'awareness' goes, I think that it is commonly believed that the Buddha's enlightenment/awarenes was 'absolute' in the senses high-lighted below. I am not aware of his having made any pronouncements on 'equality'. --ED Definitions of 'absolute'. * perfect or complete or pure; "a

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Bill - Never underestimate the creativity and power of the discursve mind! It keeps millions of Internet groups and hundreds of millions of posters occupied and happy. This is what distinguishes our culture as being 'civilized'. --ED ;-) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: >

[Zen] Re: Liberation III

> Buddha has awakened to Absolute Equality and Absolute Awareness. To use the term 'absolute' means to put forward the theory that the Buddha was absolute as above for the rest of each and everyday of his life until the day he died. Humans being humans, each and everyone of us will drop into t

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

ED, I looked at the book, at at page 343 as you suggested. It's just unbeleiveable to me that someone could think they could say anything relevant about zen in 550+ page book. Zen is so simple and uncomplicated I just don't know how anyone could squeeze that many words out of it - or any word

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Bill, Below are five potential 'onenesses': o Divine oneness , the belief that God is without parts o Oneness (metaphysics) , a concept in philosophy oOneness (mysticism) , union with what is fundamental in reality oOneness of God , the belief that only one deity exists o

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Bill, be happy, don't worry, we are all ONE![:p]--ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > Ha! Ha! Ha! That's the best one I've hear in a long time: "...I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness'" Ha! Ha! Ha! (or maybe it should be Ho!

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Ha! Ha! Ha! That's the best one I've hear in a long time: "...I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness'" Ha! Ha! Ha! (or maybe it should be Ho! Ho! Ho! in honor of Christmas!) ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > > > Yesterday, I

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

ED, Well...okay. It's not up to me to tell you what you should or should not do. I can tell you for me I know I should not cling to attachments. I'm more at ease that way. Attachments make me feel sad when they go away. You may certainly be attached to them if you want to ; and you may cert

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

ED: Why forget about pride and the Self? MEL: That is what they teach(without specifics) in Zen which the general population can accept, or reject. Each and everything in this world we live in is never a 'self' as such because it's identity and environment constantly goes through changes over

[Zen] Re: Liberation

MEL: Hi ED ED: Dualism is at the core of our Judeo-Christian culture; but also, contrary to what some might assert, there *are* intrinsic differences in the psyches of men and women. MEL: And which is why Zen poped up into popularity here in the West, even after WW2. Zen is a new concept her

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Yesterday, I checked on 'oneness' in James Austin's: 'Zen-Mind Reflections'. The subject appears to be quite complex, with pages 333 to 357 and much, much more devoted to it - all a bit over my head. I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness', and that these st

Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation III

Hi Ed, It is a subtle difference. Yet it is also critically important to notice the "separation of self from others" in our postings. If we use more "you or I" then "we" in our postings. We could be less liberated. Only when we truly accept that we are one with all, then we are all witho

[Zen] Re: Liberation III

Good morning, JMJM - In the final analysis, you are 'right.' 'Liberation' is indeterminate, whether claimed for self or by others. Play with anyone and everyone you please, whether liberated or not - provided you are enjoying it - and then 'walk on.' --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" wrote: > MEL: Hi there Bill, ED, and all BILL: That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the str

[Zen] Re: Liberation

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" wrote: > ED: 'Amen!' requires an end. Is there ever an *end* to the shenanigans in the typical human male-female relationship? ;-) MEL: An end? Never, which is why we are now bombarded with all sorts of ideas concerning MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM V

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Bill, Why *should* I not? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > ED, > > You might have values and objectives, but you should not be attached to your (or anyone else's) values or objectives. > > ...Bill! > > Mel and Bill, > > > > What a person says or does is a function

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Amen! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > > Or, take your pick: 'Imagine' or 'Just THIS.' > > --- > > Imagine > > Imagine there's no Heaven > It's easy if you try > No hell below us > Above us only sky > Imagine all the people > Living for today > > Imagine there's no cou

[Zen] Re: Liberation

ED, I wasn't implying an end. I understand 'amen' to be used to express assent or approval. In this case I was using it sarcastically...Bill! Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/amen#ixzz18w5l2B9X --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > > > 'Amen!' requires an end. Is

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

ED, You might have values and objectives, but you should not be attached to your (or anyone else's) values or objectives. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > Mel and Bill, > > What a person says or does is a function of his or her conscious or > unconscious values

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

MEL: Hi there Bill, ED, and all BILL: That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the trut

[Zen] Re: Liberation

ED: 'Amen!' requires an end. Is there ever an *end* to the shenanigans in the typical human male-female relationship? ;-) MEL: An end? Never, which is why we are now bombarded with all sorts of ideas concerning MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS...and other dualistic works

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Hi Ed, Chan in Chinese is 禪。 The Japanese pronounce the same character "zen". In Chinese, the left half of the character means "spirit" as well as "body". The right half of the character means Singular. Chan means the universe as a whole, including the visible and the invisible, the static

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

JMJM, one what? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: > > Indeed. The world is one.

Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation II

Indeed. The world is one. It is we, who wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't.:'( Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 12/22/2010 10:45 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: The world is already one. With countries and peopleb that do not al

Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation II

The world is already one. With countries and peopleb that do not always see the unity. On Dec 22, 2010 9:55 AM, "ED" wrote: Or, take your pick: 'Imagine' or 'Just THIS.' --- Imagine Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Li

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Or, take your pick: 'Imagine' or 'Just THIS.' --- Imagine Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the

[Zen] Re: Liberation

'Amen!' requires an end. Is there ever an *end* to the shenanigans in the typical human male-female relationship? ;-) --ED --- In zen_fo...@yahoogroup s.com, "Bill!" wrote: > Do I hear an 'Amen!'? ...Bill! > Good morning All, > > Viki has been meditating w

Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation

Hi Ed, Valid question. No different from you and I, Viki did not begin to serve and serve and give and give without feeling a sense of "unfairness". As she practices to learn about life, she gradually shed of her "unfair opinion" of conditions in life. It is usually triggered by witnesses f

[Zen] Re: Liberation

Good morning, JMJM, You said: "she has learned to give, to give, to give, to serve, to serve and serve. She just fulfilled each moment as always and more each day." Was Viki ever-so-slightly resentful of this situation, or did Viki rejoice in the opportunity afforded her by cultural mores and h

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Mel and Bill, What a person says or does is a function of his or her conscious or unconscious values and objectives in life, not ours. What 'should' his or her values and objectives in life be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > Mel, That sounds a lot like what a grea

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Mel, That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward i

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

How about doing good, and then moving onto other matters without dwelling on thoughts of having done such and such acts of goodness, whatever it is/was? I personally would even go so far as to forget about entirely all that ensuing 'feel good' moment, after having committed whatever act(s) of go

[Zen] Re: Liberation II

Hey! Isn't this post just a paraphrasing of John Lennon's lyrics to 'Imagine'? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote: > > Good morning All, > > What if we could expand our fulfilling of every moment beyond spouse, > and willfully deliver, without

[Zen] Re: Liberation

Do I hear an 'Amen!'? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote: > > Good morning All, > > Viki has been meditating with us for over 10 years now. Through out her > journey, she has learned to give, to give, to give, to serve, to serve > and serve, w