Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiofools - an opportunity for one of you?
d6jg wrote: > As well as posting here- well mostly upstairs in the adults area - I am > a member of a Facebook page about rare Vinyl records and CDs. > I have a 450ish collection of Vinyl records that I have been digitising > since about 2009. Firstly to 320 MP3 and then when I realised the error > to FLAC. > Bear with me. > I use either a Behringer UCA202 or a VMX200USB depending on where I am > fed by my Trio KD1033B and a recently installed Ortofon 2M Red. It's hi > fi but not top end by any means Both of the ADCs are 16/48 max. > Bear with me. > I know what I am doing when it comes to "Archiving" vinyl records. > Back to the Rare Records on Facebook. Guy posts in the middle of a > discussion about a Beatles album with the "butchers" cover about how the > Korg ADC at $600 is the best ADC there is and designed for "archiving" > vinyl at 24/192 or DSD. > I say - paraphrasing - you are in the wrong place and in any case it's > "snake oil" and 16/48 is more than adequate. > He says not. > I say send me one to test and review. > He says ok. > I think I will call his bluff but then I think. Hang on Jim. Your hifi > and your various SB players and Pi's are great but your TT is not high > end and nor really are any of your amps. > Bear with me. > So. > Who wants to step into my shoes and review the latest Korg ADC/Pre-amp? > I shall put forward the best contender to the Marketing Manager at US > Korg. That's all I promise. > I would prefer it if the name u put forward was someone who was > instrumental in keeping LMS running but whoever also needs to have > better kit than me - particularly Turntable - and be able to write a > review, You say you've got 3 bears with you, does that mean you are Goldilocks ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106828 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MPD / Squeezelite Comparo
edwardthern wrote: > So I've been going back and forth with MPD and Squeezelite for over a > yearprobably longer, but lets just say 'actively comparing' the two > for at least a year. > > Initial listening both sound great. But over time MPD seems to sound > thick with more bass than Squeezelite. Over time I've tweaked this and > that, changed cables, Dacs, music etc. etc. but the same over all > impression stands. Squeezelite sound a bit thinner, not as much bass and > not quite the separation and depth as MPD. And on the other hand MPD > lacks air and sheen. Don't get me wrong, both are great...albeit > different sounding. But neither offer 100% of what I'm looking forSL > maybe 95%, MPD maybe 92%. I could live with SL and be totally > happyas I am now. > > With all this said, I really really like the sound of Clementine Music > Player...yeah I know everyone is like "HUH?!?!?" But truth be told to my > ears it sounds better than both SL and MPD. > > Any thoughts, suggestions or ideas? your baseline would be to play a wav file using aplay. Both mpd a sl use aplay, but have all the extra file transfer/conversion etc stuff going on at the same time. So aplay will show you whether mpd sound or sl sound is nearer to what is possible via alsa. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106537 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiostream's "Silent Majority"
bonze wrote: > Whatever floats your boat - but you don't really need to share all the > same. definitely a dead sheep. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105254 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiostream's "Silent Majority"
bonze wrote: > Here it's known as the "SBGK defence" ;) I feel like I've been savaged by a dead sheep or is it nuzzled by an old boar, both apply. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105254 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Too bad it is just after christmas..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSiVWkk5zaQ the sound of the sex pistols is barely audible above the steam sounds, I'm sure Sid would have approved. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104917 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch + Toolbox 3 + EDO = XRUN Buffer issue
sdiesel77 wrote: > Hi All, > I made these notes when I was messing around with the Touch and EDO/TT3, > don't know if you can make anything of them. > > If you want to use these settings then it is best to copy the whole text > into a text file as sometimes the lines get truncated if copying line by > line. > > These settings attempt to remove the digital sound from the Touch > playback, from my own findings and feedback from people who have used > them the result is a smoother more analogue and yet still detailed sound > which some people may prefer. > > They do this by using larger tcp and alsa_buffer sizes and other tcp > settings as well as optimised kernel and priority settings . > > Whether the they are the best settings for your system is obviously open > to debate, I am happy with them in my system and I have tried XXhighend, > JRMC, Foobar2000, ASIO, WASAPI, KS etc and keep coming back to the > Touch, TT3.0, EDO and these settings. > > Warning - these settings are ones I am using in my system without any > issues. They may not work in other systems and it is your responsibility > to ensure that any code is backed up before changing and you know how to > back out the changes. > > No liability is accepted by the author for any damages caused by the use > of these settings. > > Thanks to Soundcheck for TT3.0, Triode for the EDO mod and the members > of the SlimDevices Forum who were brave enough to try these and provide > valuable feedback. > > I am using these settings asynchronously connected to a Musical Fidelity > V Link 192 - best sound I have heard, layer upon layer of detail. > Amazing. So congratulations again to Triode for his hard work. > > However, the base EDO sound is quite thin and lacking bass, I have > included settings to solve this - sections 1,3,4 and 5. > > Am using alsa buffer of 9, periodcount of 64 and large rmem > values without a problem. > > These modification are designed to improve the sound of the Logitech > Squeezebox Touch and are based on an ethernet attached digital out > Touch. Wireless and analogue out setups may also benefit, but may need > different settings. > > It is recommended to have the Triode EDO and Soundcheck TT3.0 mods > applied first or TT3.0 as a minimum. > > http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html > > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput > > I use tagged WAV files or uncompressed FLAC files created using > DBPoweramp. The best sound is obtained by decoding on the server rather > than the Touch, otherwise the settings will need to be changed to cope > with the extra load on the Touch. > > usb dac connected Touches will need IRQ-37 given a higher priority (95), > the settings have been been used successfully by a few people including > myself. > > do this by changing the following in the priority section > > PRIOIRQ37=0 > > to > > PRIOIRQ37=95 > > and > > chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ37 $PIDIRQ37 >/dev/null 2>&1 > > to > > chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ37 $PIDIRQ37 >/dev/null 2>&1 > > and > > PRIOIRQ47=36 > > to > > PRIOIRQ47=0 > > and > > chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ47 $PIDIRQ47 >/dev/null 2>&1 > > to > > chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ47 $PIDIRQ47 >/dev/null 2>&1 > > If going back to using digital out then just reverse the settings > above. > > note - the 1200 figure in the following lines (see step 3) can be > increased to 42958848 maximum to improve the sound, however the sound > does tend to have hiccups and may pause in some setups, in which case > lower the values. I use the 42958848 value without any problems. > > echo "1200" > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max > echo "1200" > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_default > echo "655360" > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_max > echo "65536" > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_default > echo "4096 1200 1200" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rmem > > The settings below use 10 as the alsa buffer value, this is the > minimum value that gives the largest buffer size, it's a bit technical > to explain why. The maximum is 9, but some people have problems > with that setting. For EDO users with a USBDAC connected to the Touch > the 10 setting is recommended. > > If you are streaming low sample rate radio etc then a periodcount of 2 > works otherwise 10 is a good value to use with alsa buffer of 10. I > am using alsa_buffer of 9 and periodcount of 64. > > TCP settings on the server - these also make a difference. I have Nagles > algorithm disabled (using TCPOptimiser) and the RWin value set to > 1073741823 (can be set directly in the registry - even though it is not > supposed to have an effect in Win7 there is an audible difference). > > EDO specific changes > > if you have the triode enhanced digital output (EDO) installed make the > following 3 changes, if you don't have EDO installed go to change 4. > copy and paste don't try typing the values in case of mistakes. > > If you have
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting reseach paper
Fizbin wrote: > You guys have WAY too much time on your hands. Shhh, don't tell them that. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104729 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
garym wrote: > yes, that did give me pausebut even a broken clock is correct twice > a day! you're too hard on yourself, I'm sure you've sometimes been correct 3 times a day. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
rgro wrote: > You do realize you're agreeing with SBGK??? Next we'll have Arnyk and > Jkeny giving each other bro-hugs. Lot's of people agree with me. It's to be encouraged. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
rgro wrote: > 1906319064 > > Ralph, it's pretty simple. The John Swenson of Uptone Audio fame (or > infame as it were) IS the chap who designed and engineered the Regen for > Upton Audio and, as I understand it, Alex Crespi is the owner of Uptone > Audio. There is every reason for that John Swenson, as the > engineer/designer of their products, to be all over that website. > > The other John Swenson is a long-time writer and current music > reviewer/contributor for Stereophile. As far as I know, he does not > design or engineer Regens or any other audio gear; he writes and he's > been a writer for decades. He has nothing to do with Uptone, he write > f-ing articles for god's sake. Since you've elected not to take the > time to do even the simplest of research, here's his bio: > http://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Writer/john-swenson. > > The guy on the left is the music writer, the nerd on the right is the > engineer. Are you satisfied, now, that--at least in this case--- there > is no plot by either Swenson to control our minds? guy on the left looks like he's wearing a disguise, could be the same person. Why wear a hat and beard indoors ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
Greg Erskine wrote: > Hi SBGK, > > I think it is a little unfair to call him a villain. > > He abandoned one project for a more financially rewarding project = > businessman. > > regards > Greg I mean't pantomime type villain. At least the regen has some relevance to a lot of peoples experience of digital music and has changed perceptions that digital doesn't need to sound second rate. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
J Swenson develops reolacement squeezebox = Hero J Swenson develops regen to critical acclaim = Villain Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
Julf wrote: > So any reaction to snake oil merchants being caught lying is being > "emotionally fraught". Yes, fits the program... Are you saying uptone are lying snake oil merchants ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
Julf wrote: > With regards to uptone, all I am saying is that I would love to see > actual evidence to support the claims. Yes, it would be a bit of a game changer if they were to do that, interesting times. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
Still, I'm reminded of Kevin Keegan's rant at Alex Ferguson when I read the comments about regen in this thread, it's definitely the objectivists who are getting emotionally fraught. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
So sad. Where did it all go wrong for the regen folks, 2500 sales and now they'll probably have to return all the money as people realise the measurements prove they are hearing imaginary improvements. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
arnyk wrote: > Because they are bullied into such wasteful purchases by unscrupulous > audio manufacturers, dealers and other audiophiles. > > The audiophile culture has created a population of people who crave > influence and make up imaginary and often technically impossible > so-called problems, and then bully others into buying into their > fantasies. Always interesting to hear what the holy monks of objectivism are currently paranoid about. You forgot to mention glossy magazines full of advertorials giving everything 8 gold stars or more. The only bullies I've come across are objectivists who just can't tolerate anybody reporting differences in digital playback. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
Julf wrote: > Well, except... My point was that true audiophiles tend to declare > asynchronous sample rate converters Truly Evil - probably because they > make the whole jitter discussion a non-issue, and in a simple way, so > that can't be good. > > The answer to by SBGK's question (that no doubt was intended to be a > rhetorical one) is that when manufacturers start making their dacs with > regen type devices already included, audiophiles (and audiophile vendors > and press) will come up with even wilder theories about why that is bad > and why external, expensive (and thus exclusive) gadgets are needed. why would they do that if the dac was immune to any gremlins fed to it ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Technical Question: Is the amount of jitter a function of the type of connection?
so what will you say when manufacturers start making their dacs with regen type devices already included and people prefer the sq of those to previous versions ? will that also be some form of mass delusion ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
arnyk wrote: > It appears that you made a personal attack in this post: > > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104227-Once-again-does-wav-sound-different-than-flac=829644=1#post829644 > > "Again, Who decide when evidence are enougth do become "accepted fact"? > Oh, yes...Always You." > > Key phrase: "Always you". > > You publicly defiled the character of Julf by characterizing him as > bullying you based on false authority (him). > > In fact Julf was making informal reference to well known and widely > accepted audio authorities. It seems a shame Julf only posts here now, his character having been defiled at other forums. Help save the Julf. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > Again, Who decide when evidence are enougth do become "accepted fact"? > Oh, yes...Always You. > > > > > Sure, but here is not the same, I say I heard it and I'm not the only > one, Again what more evidence you need to accept we feel it (not on why > and how), please be clear! > > > > > Then we are, psycoacusitical... Why not, if you could hear a 40Hz pedal > in your little room is becouse of it. Try to measure and detect the 40Hz > note in sound... The fact your instruments could not detect it means is > not there? > > The fact is that IS in the music BUT NOT in the sound (where music is > the perceived message ans sound is the phisical medium) becouse masking > take effects only in the uman brain. > > The "errror" is in the instruments that don't look at the particular > combination of sounds being played that origin the 40Hz note or in my > brain? If for you is in my brain, ok, stop here. > > > > Again and again and again... What evidence could someone give of his > perception other than to say I could feel it? I'm not talking about HOW > to build a DAC, it's only you keep confusing things. > > Please be honest and clear!!! You want me to say I could not heard any > differences, but I can't if I want to be honest. > > > > Then You are judging about other people reliability, not evidences, as I > was pointing out before, be honest and admit this, it's quite unfair but > sure you are suppose do be better than me. That's all we are talking > about... > > > > Again, just You need to change the theories first than accept the > evidence that some phenomenon could take place. > > Actual thoeries on digital sound reproduction (that don't really care if > flac sound the same of wav at the analog output and why, by the way) are > valid since someone will eventually demostrate something different, but > this not means we could not accept and then investigate that some people > claim to hear some difference and they are not crazy. > > You dangerously exchange the theory that explain reality with the > reality itself! > > Sky will not fall on your head just becouse someone demostate it could, > but if it has to it will, also if nobody will demostrate it could > before... > > More and Again, I'm not here to demostrate anything other than state I - > and others - could hear some difference, are this anecdotes and hearsay? It's like the 3 Billy Goats Gruff story. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
pippin wrote: > And I am missing a proof that Nessie doesn't exist. > that's easy, just empty Loch Ness of water and if there's not a monster at the bottom then it doesn't exist. Though it could have gone to the pub that evening, I suppose. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
SBGK wrote: > what's the chain ? > > flac -> sox -> aplay -> pcm -> kernel -> drivers -> device > > wav -> aplay -> pcm -> kernel -> drivers -> device > > so kernel and drivers see the same amount of data unless the sample > rates and/or bit depth are different, but then you're comparing apples > and pears. so borrowing from Pippin Packetized network traffic->NIC->Network driver->flac -> sox ->decode buffer->play buffer->aplay -> pcm -> kernel -> drivers -> device There is code to fill a decode buffer and then copy that to a play buffer, perhaps the efficiency of that is different between flac and wav. Is sox decoding a batch of data at a time ? I've always found wav to sound better than flac whether it was on pc or sbt or apple Touch, flac would have a difference in timing which wasn't present with wav. I use flac for archive, so am happy that after conversion the data is the same, it's just the effect of decoding at the same time. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
Julf wrote: > User marcoc1712 started 'this thread' > (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104198-Disk-and-folder-browsing=828137=1#post828137) > in the developer forum. The tread is primarily about possible bugs > associated with trying to stream pure pcm or wav format files. In order > to keep that thread focused on the actual functioning of the software, > this thread, here in the Audiophile subforum, is discussion about the > possible claimed benefits (and disadvantages) of "raw" pcm vs. flac. > > Technically wav isn't a very good format for streaming, so anyone using > it probably has reasons for doing so. The usual reason is the audiophile > folklore about "uncompressed" sounding better than lossless compression. > > > Often the folklore is based on misunderstanding the nature of lossless > encodings, but a slightly more sophisticated argument is based on the > supposed extra CPU load caused by flac decoding. This ignores the added > processing and IO load (not just in the player application, but also in > the kernel and device drivers) caused by the redundant data - and > assumes that small differences in CPU load would cause audible > differences. > > Archimago 'measured the effect of cpu load on jiitter' > (http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/03/measurements-hunt-for-load-induced.html) > in 2013, and concluded that "symmetrical jitter sidebands are no > different whether CPU or GPU load high". > > So far I have not seen any measurements or controlled listening tests > showing any audible difference. I would welcome pointers to either. what's the chain ? flac -> sox -> aplay -> pcm -> kernel -> drivers -> device wav -> aplay -> pcm -> kernel -> drivers -> device so kernel and drivers see the same amount of data unless the sample rates and/or bit depth are different, but then you're comparing apples and pears. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] generating free energy by using chrystal
arnyk wrote: > It seems like wind turbines would have to be thick and dense to > significantly slow down the wind. If they did so to any degree the > effect would be bounded by some reasonable distances above and around > them. > > Man made heat islands do seem to significantly affect weather patterns > over large areas but their areas of influence are huge and dense. > > At the least wind turbines can extract energy from wind without slowing > it, as they can extract significant energy by just making the wind > turbulent, thus increasing its entropy. > > That they make the wind downstream of them at last locally turbulent > seems to have a lot of evidence to support it in terms of the bird > kills, etc. > > The absence of clear and obvious evidence that they substantially slow > the wind could be meaningful. Rather confused thinking there about extracting energy by making the wind turbulent. Turbulence creates drag, the last thing the windmill designers want. They want laminar flow creating variations in pressure as it flows over the blades, thus creating thrust which is translated to angular motion. this harvard study seems to suggest that the wind does slow down and may affect regional weather. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/02/25/rethinking-wind-power-harvard-study-shows-it-to-be-overestimated/ "Each wind turbine creates behind it a wind shadow in which the air has been slowed down by drag on the turbines blades. The ideal wind farm strikes a balance, packing as many turbines onto the land as possible, while also spacing them enough to reduce the impact of these wind shadows. But as wind farms grow larger, they start to interact, and the regional-scale wind patterns matter more." Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] generating free energy by using chrystal
arnyk wrote: > Of course turbulence creates drag - that's obvious. However the above > statement shows a lack of understanding about the basics of > thermodynamics. > > The above seems to ignore the fundamentals of energy extraction. I see a > complete lack of appreciation of entropy and its role in energy > conversion. > > > > Of course everybody wants laminar flow in their wind machines and other > airfoils, but that ignores the global consequences of extracting energy > from a flow of air. > > One might be naive and think that the only way to extract energy from a > flow of air is to slow it down. However an improved understanding of > thermodynamics tells us that the overall method is based on increasing > entropy. > > Perhaps the obsession with laminar flow over the airfoil has led to a > lack of realization that the air that has passed over the airfoil by any > means becomes more turbulent downstream of the area of laminar flow. > > > > That is a very imaginative reading! > > Let's be clear - there is no free lunch, never well be and that is the > gist of what the article says. > > However, there are no actual findings of significant climatic changes in > that article. At the most they are suggested, but only vaguely so. > > Of course the changes have to exist, but what they are needs to be > quantified. If there is actual quantification, are please quote it I'm > not finding it. > > Merely finding a change or different is what Golden Ear merchandisers > do. It's called "Raising a concern". It is often actually just FUD. The > evils of high end audio are largely based on unquantified effects that > are actually microscopic and irrelevant to reliably perceived sound > quality. > > > > That would appear to be innuendo and statement of truisms, not actual > identification or quantification of actual effects. I have no doubt > that there are wind shadows. The relevance of the issue is highly > dependent on what they are, not that they exist at all. > > Calling people Confused when the only evidence at hand is based on > speculation and innuendo of unquantified effects suggests things like > poor critical thinking or a desire to extract an emotional toll for the > purposes of personal satisfaction. Still don't understand what you mean't by 'they can extract significant energy by just making the wind turbulent'. I think they would extract more energy by minimising turbulence, think it's aerodynamics you need to be studying instead of thermodynamics. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] generating free energy by using chrystal
Julf wrote: > Ah, nice to have you back! Now that you are here, how about the > 'unfinished business' > (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?104136-MEASUREMENTS-Audiophile-Sound-and-Operating-Systems-(Windows-8-1-Windows-10-)=827775=1#post827775)? Or what ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Don't know - I was banned from CA after pointing out that sgbk was in violation of his own software license terms... no, I think the tirnahifi ban was for trolling and the CA was for promising not to troll after the first ban and then continuing to troll, facts is facts, doncha know. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: SBGK, I don't think you ever answered the question of what methodology you use to evaluate sound quality... Some details would be interesting and useful. I've asked before and I believe a very fair question. I mainly use my earholes and feedback from people nice enough to try it and who I respect eg - here is some feedback for the vs 2015 recompiled version, of course this way of working is impossible in your world, but it seems to work, some versions are identified as improvements and some are not liked. Listened to play v65/loader v25 and play v69/loader v27. v69 is clearly better. v69 has more clearity and a fine way of presenting the music. Very nice listening. +1, was very satisfied listening to v69/v27 Now what about answering my questions to you about how you can measure something when you can't hear any differences, most people would hear a difference and then investigate why. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Would love to see the results of your measurements. Well, the render loop takes 9 uops with no port pressure or register stalls, that's the only measurement I've done recently, seems better than the previous 13 and 11 uop versions. The problem with digital is it's fairly easy to produce a noise and people think it's music, and even though it's a muddy mess people are convinced that's the best that can be achieved. I'm not saying mqn is producing music, I'm just exploring the effects of minimising the code, the whole concept of digital music is flawed and the instructions still heavily influence the sound. but these are not concerns of yours, so back to your squeezebox. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: And the investigation would follow the scientific method. First you would verify that there really is a difference, by isolating possible other causes (such as confirmation bias and the placebo effect), and by independent verification / replication. Then you would formulate an attempt at explaining the phenomenon, and come up with testable statements about it - and make the tests, to verify your explanation. Most science was observed or theorized before actual measurements were made, so I don't think I'm being unscientific in my discoveries. Just the measurers need to step up their game and measure rather than sniping from the sidelines. the current version only plays one track at a time and people are concatenating files so they can play a whole album, would they be doing that if they didn't like the sound or they could get the same from using foobar ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: I didn't really follow this since i know where it comes from :) good decision, someone will be a long to tell you what to follow. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Wasn't the 'mqnplayer' (http://mqnplayer.blogspot.nl/) the ultimate incarnation of this silliness? are you saying you've tried it julfy ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
Julf wrote: A good one! what to call an anti audiophile ? Arny's barmy army ? Anyone who has such an absolute claim on science just doesn't know how much he doesn't know. A common trait amongst eejits. Just noticed the quality posters have abandoned this forum, wonder why. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
artee wrote: The questions that I would like to ask each of you are: 1.Do you think that those posts add value to the forum? 2.Are you proud of your posts? Cheers, Rick It's just banter between two esteemed individuals arguing about something that can never be proved on an online forum. I know it's car crash stuff, but you do have the option of not reading the posts. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
You guys have lost the plot, why are you attacking someone just because they have a different viewpoint ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
arnyk wrote: Jkeny's abject cowardice and utter denial of reality should be more conspicuous. I guess he can hide behind the fact that nobody really cares that much what he does. Can't blame him for not wanting to be called up short for his anti-scientific claims and self-serving posturing. you obviously do, sweetheart. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
arnyk wrote: This is one of the big golden ear lies - that all truth is relative and nothing can be proven. prove it Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
arnyk wrote: You've done it for me many times, just lately with that post of yours that I replied to. That's the clear meaning of the following false claim: It's just banter between two esteemed individuals arguing about something that can never be proved on an online forum. The claim that the discussion is about something that can never be proved on an online forum. is just a restatement of the idea that all truth is relative and nothing can be proven. For example there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence that golden ear magical audio claims are based on casual audiophile evaluations that are egregiously flawed. Call that proof. There's a reason why you don't say much of substance, instead reply with personal attacks and glib posts like this one - like jkeny you can't provide a well-written, well-reasoned counter argument. Quote Originally Posted by arnyk View Post This is one of the big golden ear lies - that all truth is relative and nothing can be proven. Very good, pity you made up that meaning out of my sentence. I said arguing about something that can't be proved on an online forum. Hope it's not a sign of dementia. Keep well. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
bonze wrote: So you don't think anyone should have a Touch in their system? Well done, you've just proved his point. The empty vessel makes the most noise. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
Julf wrote: So you aren't using a squeezebox? See, you've quoted it out of context, well done. Which no tactic is that from the troll manual ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Seeking suggestions for a new term/label
ralphpnj wrote: Pray tell - what would any self respecting audiophile be doing on the Slimdevices forum? So again I ask: what would any self respecting audiophile be doing on the Slimdevices forum? some misguided people have been duped into using the squeezebox as a front end to multi thousand $ systems because they've been told bits are bits and abx is incapable of discerning a difference and Archimago says they all sound/measure the same. So these people have pretensions of being an audiophile and think they are getting it from a $300 device. It's also fun just to see how stuck in the mud you guys are as the rest of the digital audio world moves forward and makes discoveries/find solutions. The objectivists' response to the regen is just bizarre. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
I changed the buffer sizes in my Touch and hear enhanced high frequencies with smaller values and reduced high frequencies with larger buffers, has anyone tried to measure this effect ? It should be possible to measure frequency differences. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Why don't you run your own tests? You've said the following: real science would be trying to come up with theories to match the evidence rather than ridiculing the evidence. can you back those brave words up with relevant action? there is enough anecdotal evidence from people round the planet who have changed buffer sizes in asio, wasapi, alsa to be certain that there is an effect. If abx showed there wasn't an effect then that would be a reflection on abx testing. When I broached the subject before on this forum the objectivists would say I was hearing things and bits are bits, but now we have accepted that usb can create an 8khz noise due to frame noise then I am theorizing that the same thing is happening when buffer sizes are changed ie a frame noise component is being tuned. The question I had was can this be measured ? It's fairly obvious to me that frequency output differs with buffer size and now there seems to be a theory that would back that finding. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: It would appear that ridicule is all you've got. If you actually had something useful to say, you'd have said it by now. now now, play nicely. you don't want to be remembered as a bitter old man. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Just one of very many such audio accessories: Green CD pens Various rocks and items made of rocks cable elevators $5,000 CAT-5E 6 network cables etc. etc The comment about quality stuff often being transparent is something that can be shown to be true by scientific means. The stuff I listed above, not so much. To calrify, it doesn't usually hurt transparency but there are no known cases where it helped that aren't based on those horrific casual audiophile sighted evaluations that some people are fooled by. It is abundently clear that a transparent USB-based audio system can be obtained without the inclusion of a Regen. The question at hand is whether or not there is *-any -*real-world circumstance under which it can make an audible difference. There are 100's of anecdotes but they don't even make a pretense of being reliable or scientific. More empty words from the internet warrior. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
a pity the self proclaimed upholders of science can't put in some original research to understand why their measurements don't match the effects on sound that people report hearing. To say that anyone who disagrees with them is anti science is the sign of cult driven group think. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: The historical precedent for recognizing the egregious failings of sighted evaluations goes back at least to 1977 and our first ABX tests. I have to admit that at that time I didn't realize how biased the sighted evaluations that I had done for more than the first third of my life were, until I started doing blind tests. It was like lifting a veil from the listening experience. The above statement by jkeny is an obvious attempt to deflect attention from the egregious flaws of the sighted evaluations that for example jkeny uses to promote his questionable USB DACs. Just check his web site - little or nothing but testimonials from people who rely on casual sighted evaluations. Anybody who relies exclusively on really bad science like casual sighted evaluations to hawk his wares is casting grievous aspersions on his own work whether he realizes it or not. He's basically admitting that fair tests don't support his products' very existence. you keep hawking abx testing as being the gold standard, but as far as I can see it is totally irrelevent to anyone actually listening for changes. It's only used by objectivists who always claim to never have heard a difference, so what sort of endorsement is that ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
jh901 wrote: Off topic request, but could I get the very, very short list of specialty hi-end audio products which produce no audible change in sound quality. Specifically, I'm only interested in those products which are _widely_accepted_ amongst audiophiles, yet are understood by objectivists to produce no audible change. For example: Speaker wire, Analog interconnects, Digital interconnects, Vibration control devices (such as Stillpoints), etc. quite an eye opening thread on computer audio about vibration control, enlightening/amusing depending on your bent. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
1500 regen devices sold, not one properly conducted abx test. abx tests obviously irrelevant to those audiophiles. I guess we'll hear any negative comments after more prolonged exposure if it's not beneficial to all setups. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: So jkeny, in your universe, the Laws Of Physics are settled by means of a popularity contest? Everybody votes that water flows uphill, and it starts doing so? Sure would be handy if things worked out that way! But in the universe that most of us live in, the Laws of Physics are settled based on reliable evidence. About a month ago, you promised to go away until you could provide us with reliable evidence related to the operation of the Regen, and seeing none... How do you have the guts to show your face before us with the same-old, same-old empty hands? thing is your understanding of physics is flawed, the theories don't match reality. Unless you think that everyone who hears any differences in digital playback is hearing things. Just like the global warming theories haven't predicted the stall in global temperatures the theories of digital audio can't predict the differences people hear. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Mnyb wrote: The simplest measurements of them all would be at the analog output of a DAC any DAC, even if a product do improve stuff farther up in the chain, whats eventually matters is whats leaving the DAC . If a professional magazine or site reviews they better test a whole bunch of DAC's with different design to see if the effect varies if its there at all . Why this product in this tread ? start a new tread on the regen , the other one got closed . On that can the mods please start a separate keny and arny slugfest tread :D (with a theme song only aviable as DSD128 ) it would improve the S/N level (no i dont care who started it's probably decades ago in another forum unrelated to squeezeboxes , but it's evident that we see much more jkeny when arnyk is around ?) then they can go over and figth it out and then return to the normal tread to debate on topic win win . if the measurements were simple there wouldn't be any debate. you need to find measurements that reflect peoples experience when hearing differences due to things upstream of the dac. To date those measurements haven't been found, however there's a growing cottage industry of improved products based developed according to how they sound. It is to the objectivists shame that they haven't moved the debate on from believing that because current measurements don't show a difference then anyone reporting a difference must be insane. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
could Clarke's help the objectivists take a step forward towards the light ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws Clarke's Three Laws are three laws of prediction formulated by the British science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke. They are: When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Let's not conflate commercial realities with technical truths. If you go to the drugstore, what percentage of whats on the shelves are unique effective medical tools, what percentage are things that work or kinda work but are reasonably safe and are repackaged 7,600 (more or less) different ways as cures for 7,600 different things, and what percentage are placebos? Even in a context of over a century of legal regulation, there are plenty of placebos and also quite a few examples of about 8 different chemicals (aspirin, Acetaminophen, calcium carbonate, capsaicin, Milk of Magnesia, etc.) repackaged literally thousands of different ways as if they were unique solutions for common human ailments. In the case of audio, there has never been any effective government regulation, the products have only been around a maximum of about half as long, and there are plenty of examples of effective tools, things that are semi-effective but repackaged many different ways, and out-and-out placebos. Why should I be surprised? One of the more educational experience of my life has been the last 2 years that I have been going to Estate Sales. This is a legal way to freely and intrusively peruse other people's lifestyles in excruciating detail. So lets see, I go to about 10 estate sales a week and I've been doing this weekly for about 2 years. That's about 1,000 different homes in upscale communities that I've examined. I've found about 4 instances of high end audio cables or .4% market penetration. The point is don't make the mistake of overestimating the market penetration of high end audio cables. In the cosmic scheme of things, it is a nit. Aren't estate sales mainly for the deceased, so you're mainly looking at old peoples belongings, who may not have the same interest in high end audio as others. I know none of my elderly neighbours or relatives have anything more than a tv and a radio, with maybe the odd midi cd player type system. Did they abx it before buying ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
Archimago wrote: Doesn't this depend on who and where you ask? Do you think the market has actually spoken in favour of high-end snakeoil? Like Arny says, the actual penetration of the high end brands of cables and whatnot isn't all that significant. More pedestrian, moderately expensive though well advertised items like Monster Cables and Beats is where the financial sweet spot likely lies. JPlay/JCat, Uptone Regen, high end cable companies gets their portion though I'm not sure what spoils implies in terms of actual monetary reward. No, I don't think objectivists are the loons shouting about the end of the world (remember, end of the world isn't generally part of the scientific world view unless we're talking death of the sun, serendipitous asteroid/comet collisions, environmental catastrophes, or nuclear armageddon). We're the guys passing the psychic store selling mystical amulets on the way to work and on occasion, the bravest of us would get into an argument but ultimately carrying on with our lives. The psychic store continues to sell their wares and more outspoken faithful believers will patronize. BTW: Remember this poll from Steve Hoffman forum on upgraded USB cables and better sound: http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/04/perspective-poll-upgraded-usb-and-sound.html 72% didn't think it makes a difference. And I consider those guys reasonably balanced as far as audio fanatics go... It seems that the digital sq is improved by those working on the margins, so upscale inc and jplay are important to those seeking an improved sound. Still think you must be measuring the wrong things to arrive at some of your findings. Will be interesting when you tell the 1500 plus regen users that, according to your measurements, what they are hearing is all in their head. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is anybody sick of the recent spate of threads?
arnyk wrote: Is this a Royal We? Don't you think it is presumptuous to purport to speak for people who in fact disagree with you? As far as I'm concerned I'm one person with one opinion, and so is everybody else. This is a marketplace of ideas, and we all bring what we have, and people agree or disagree with it as they will. People who disagree with that would appear to be overstepping their personal bounds in order to lord it over people. and if the market is always right then the abx objectivists are increasingly like the loon shouting the world is going to end while the likes of jplay, regen, cable manufacturers etc walk away with the spoils. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Archimago wrote: Bell wire? What is that 20AWG or thinner? I did say a decent length of copper did I not as speaker cables? As for golden ears, you, like some others seem to claim/insist you have them (based on what you claim to hear on your blog with OS optimizations)... Is this self-proclamation? Or do friends/family/wife/kids agree? just relating my experience, think that's allowed on this forum. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Archimago wrote: Good luck with the zip cords... Bottom line is that physics predicts that the demands of accurate transmission of audio from 20Hz-20kHz in -speaker cables- is a rather low standard that can be fulfilled more than easily by a decent length of copper! THE CLAIM OF AUDIBLE DIFFERENCE (IE. THAT SOMEHOW SOMETHING IS BEING CHANGED IN THAT TRANSMISSION FROM 20HZ-20KHZ) BECAUSE OF EXOTIC MATERIALS/DIELECTRICS, ETC. THAT IS SOMEHOW \BETTER\ OR MORE \TRUE\ TO THE SIGNAL IS AKIN TO DECLARING THAT THESE LAWS OF PHYSICS ARE BEING VIOLATED. Since cable companies are claiming that they have found some special secret sauce that makes their cables better (rather than purposely distorting the signal), I think the onus is on them to show just what is going on that the result is at least different from what the laws of physics predicts! So far, I have yet to see any evidence of an actual change beyond human testimony. Remember, this is audio frequency... We're not talking MHz, GHz transmissions here where gauge, material, dielectrics, geometry could truly be essential elements to successful signal integrity... And where concepts like jitter truly could be a meaningful problem! In the early days I tried bell wire, 1.5 mm and 2.5 mm 2 core and earth cable as speaker cable, they all sounded different. Guess I must have golden ears. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
arnyk wrote: Yes. One little problem. There is no such thing as ...a bunch of PhDs (in electrical engineering) that actually design cables. Getting a PhD in EE or a related area has a prerequisite - learning enough about EE to understand why audiophile cables are a myth. Prove me wrong - give us a link to a PhD Thesis in EE from an accredited University supporting the idea that audiophile cables have any solid technology behind them. I don't know who you are talking about. However, if we changed topics to self-proclaimed audiophile subjectivists who are deflecting and avoiding relevant questions that they can't answer and making it up as they go along, a lot of people would know exactly what is being discussed. ;-) what is it about phds ? Here is one, first class honours and his own cable company, what's not to like. http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/about-us Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Computer USB port noise, USB hubs and the 8kHz PHY Packet Noise
arnyk wrote: Seems to shed a lot of light. It hopefully will turn discussion back to fact-based conversations. See Uptone are endevoring to produce their own measurements to counter some of the degenerate attacks from Archie Kruger Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103727 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
Touchy wrote: Bump and apologies - I have reread the OP and it was indeed an invitation for you ladies to carry on as you have been. Well done. 'Handbags at dawn' then. Will start a more appropriate thread for the subjectively inclined in due course. Carry on Hopefully I can sneak this in here while the measurebators are changing positions in their circle. the only reference I've seen is Guidof tried it with a Touch, but decided squeezelite was better, so used it with that, don't know if squeezelite was on a linux box or pc. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
ralphpnj wrote: A nice aside to this whole discussion is the history of the audiophile fixation with the USB interface for digital audio. Several iterations ago of the Windows operating system it was discovered that USB digital output on a Windows computer was not bit perfect due to an issue with the sound driver. This issue was addressed both in several completely free programs (e.g. Foobar2000) and in subsequent releases of the Windows operating system. Another way to deal with it was to use a Mac. However when using a Mac and iTunes it was discovered that when listening to various music files with different sample rates iTunes did not handle the different sample rates correctly, which by the way Foobar2000 handles correctly as does both the Transporter and the Touch, so the answer was to install an additional paid music player called Amarra (http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarra_purchase_landing) which has different versions varying in price and features from $30 to $650. Of course any self respecting audiophile would only use the $650 version. Now comparing the computer based audio playback on a Windows computer versus a Mac (aka Apple) computer from an audiophile perspective we get: Windows computer (anywhere from $200 to $2000 and up) + Foobar2000 ($0) + either USB or optical or coax (many Windows motherboards have optical or coax digital audio outputs) digital audio output + either a USB or non-USB DAC Mac/Apple computer ($500 and up) + iTunes ($0) + Amarra ($650) + USB output + asynchronous USB DAC So just based on the computer and software alone the Mac system costs more and therefore must be better since in the audiophile belief system whatever costs more is always better. And so we get to the present state of affairs. Windows machines at one time did not have bit perfect playback but that is no longer the case. Both the Transporter and Touch have always offered bit perfect playback. By bit perfect playback I specifically mean the ability of the digital outputs to transmit a bit perfect digital audio stream to an external DAC. However in the case of both the Transporter and the Touch the audiophile world has for some strange reason deemed both of these devices as unworthy of high end audio playback. And so we have now have the only acceptable and audiophile approved system for the playback of computer based audio consisting of the following components: A Mac Mini, Mac laptop or Mac desktop computer iTunes with Amarra USB output asynchronous USB DAC One thing I find really funny is that while marching in lock step to their belief system so many audiophiles have the nerve to call those of us who dare to break ranks close minded, but then turning of truth into lies and lies into truth as always been a big part of the audiophile belief system. you're either on meds or should be on meds, don't know which. Your diatribes are starting to sound insane. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
so getting back on topic if you non circle jerking, placebophilephobic, fundamentalist objectivists (who are not part of the mafia) ever get to hear the regen and find it makes a difference will you be open minded enough to reappraise your beliefs ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: The article could convince a naive reader that JS has measured an improvement due to his device, but What I have been finding in looking at DACs etc with USB inputs is that there is what I am calling packet noise. This is bursts of noise caused by the USB receiver processing the packets of data. This noise shows up on both power and ground planes. Since the rate of packets is 8KHz there are strong components of this noise in the audio band. This noise can cause jitter in clock oscillators, reclocking flops, and DAC chips. It can also go directly into noise on the output of DAC chips. This is the same 8 KHz that noise that I posted Archimago's FFT of. Been there, done that FFT many times. He calls it packet noise, I call it framing noise, they are the same, no controversy. Unfortunately there are many other sources of framing noise in audio systems, including optical disc players, any HDMI link, any network connection, any SPDIF link, a digital music player operating off of any kind of media, you name it. It can leak into analog outputs as a coherent signal, and the processes that causes it can also cause jitter. What I still don't see is reliable evidence that something that happens outside of a box so afflicted (e.g. USB links) can significantly change these processes inside the box. Furthermore while the world of audio is full of framing noise, it is also full of clever engineers who push it way below audible thresholds so that the only people who seriously think they can hear it are usually placebophiles doing unbelievably unreliable listening tests. No evidence apart from placebophilephobes making themselves unhappy at the thought of the regen device existing and everyone else that has ordered one being very happy with proceedings. Does the idea of people being happy upset you ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
ralphpnj wrote: No but a $175 device used to solve a problem with a $5,000 USB DAC is all part of the same ecosystem, an ecosystem where the price to performance ratio has no meaning. Want to isolate a $5000 DAC from the evils of USB? By a SB Touch, stream it digital audio via wi-fi and connect it to the DAC via a coax digital cable. One problem solved but another more important problem is introduced, namely the problem of how to sell another solution when there are no problems to be found. As I said earlier, weren't all those asynchronous USB DACs supposed to fix all the nasty problems with USB? The very definition of a circle jerk. a wifi attached touch is not something that should be feeding a $5000 dac, unless listening to streaming radio or something. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Part of clarity is realizing that it is possible to have an open mind without having holes in your head! ;-) Yup, we find lots of that in our populations of Placebophiles. Their fixed world view excludes very many of the findings of modern science as I have demonstrated with you on many occasions. In their minds there is no need to understand audio technology if you can find audio nirvana with irrelevant upgrades. ;-) That metaphor pretty well describes some of the failings of placebophila. They are so consumed with solving problems via anti-science and science fiction that they can't see the benefits of modern science as it actually is. The placebophile is guided by his anti-scientific listening evaluations that fail to be actual tests and are overwhelming to the senses and mind with all of their well-known false positives and false negatives. It's like trying to find your keys on pavement that is covered with piles of glitter or maybe just junk. never go full retard Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
Julf wrote: Computer Audiophile. A site that might have started off with good intentions, but once the owner started trying to make a living out of running it, being paid for by advertising from audiophile product vendors, it become an on-line version of the audiophile press in terms of the belief system it propagates. don't thing uptone are a sponsor on that site, so usual misdirection tactic. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Absolutely. Geddes Clark and I (Nousaine was there in spirit, he would have been there in body but for that err.. life change that he experienced last year) were sharing beverages, lots of conversation and a fine meal as recently as last Saturday. JJ calls me up when he's in town with some time. They don't have the energy to be bothered with... ...well you know. They sometimes admire and sometimes question mine. Actually Geddes goes online quite a bit and talks to a certain more sincere class of audiophile, but he doesn't go to umm, certain places. JJ flies in and out of certain places like a friendly ghost. well you really need to contact JS directly and try and stamp this nonsense out, I don't think wasting your precious words on this forum will do anything to stop this monstrous insult to the audio community. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Wow, jkeny has empowered himself to speak for the 100's if not 1000's of people who post on this forum! Amazing! What you jkeny and others around here don't get is that once one obtains a certain critical mass of knowledge and experience and has the mental power to put it together correctly, one achieves a certain level of clarity. I've had the privilege of knowing personally over a period of many years some of the great modern minds of audio, people like David Clark, Earl Geddes, and James Johnston. In their areas of expertise they have achieved a relatively high level of clarity. One of the consequences of well-informed and well-experienced clarity in a certain area is that many things that are confusing to others are unbelievably clear to them. This clarity enables the execution of wonderful acts of diagnosis and invention. For example James Johnston was an important member of the two different but overlapping small groups of people who invented first MP3, and then AAC encoding. Earl Geddes holds fundamental patents he was the sole developer of related to speakers that, while they will probably be mostly broken before they are widely used, nevertheless his scientific papers and patents have enabled a lot of effective development in that area. People who have this clarity can leap over confusion and make things that were once confusing to all, clear to themselves and others. One of the consequences of such limited clarity as I have been able to obtain in certain narrow areas, is that in those areas and in some cases I have sufficient clarity about certain audio components such as DACs and amplifiers that I know what they are and what they can do in terms of practical use and subjective experience. This clarity allows me to study things, test things, and realize certain things about them that turn out to be true and helpful in somewhat widespread use and in the long run. It was that kind of clarity that enabled me to develop ABX from what it was in 1950 to where I took it back in the middle-late 1970s. It was that clarity that enabled me to do what I did back in Y2K to popularize what I called PCABX which we now see implemented in wonderful tools like FB2K/ABX. Everybody who does anything of value stands on the shoulder of others. It is often clarity that enables people to see audio placeboes for what they are. It clarity about certain things that is why I and certain others say that knowing the technology that we know we can not ethically be involved with certain audio products. It is probably that clarity that you call Motivations, but if you understand clarity you realize that while clarity can be motivation it is not really the kind of negative thing that you make it out to be. It is power to do good. It is the power to act positively. It is the power to speak directly. It probably takes a certain amount of clarity to understand higher levels of clarity. I wish you could have a little clarity, jkeny. I really do. No matter how you may wish to pretend that you have clarity, well IME not so much. It is that lack of clarity about certain critical areas of audio that explains the muddle of deflections, gross technical errors and libels that you have imposed on this forum just lately. Are they happy to be associated with you ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Which monstrous insult to the audio community are you speaking? AFAIK Uptone seems to be a very small operation. Can they even afford to advertise outside their web site and some forum posts? AFAIK they are taking money primarily from people who have to have one of everything, especially if is under $200. ;-) Yes, they are just a couple of enthusiasts so it's ok to continue to disparage their efforts without even trying the product. They aren't taking money from people. People are freely entering into contract with them for supply of goods and services. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Well, if you say so, but I don't rock that way. It is a commercial product and it is what it is. So the question is what is it? It is pretty clear to anybody with familiarity with the internals of this kind of hardware what it is from the supplied documentation. Saying that it is a USB hub that is kind of degenerate as compared to the usual USB hub is like saying that a car that has three wheels is kinda missing something as compared to usual kind that has 4 wheels. There is no controversy over what is missing, and you don't need to have the physical device in your hands to know the true facts of the matter. The far more salient issue that there is no reliable evidence that anybody has been able to bring to the table, that the device addresses an issue that exists, or that it addresses it in the real world. If you understand the technology then you understand that it is possible that this evidence may not exist. Ever. Given what you seem to be saying, you don't understand the relevant technology sufficiently to have that concern. IOW, your post is just empty words, possibly expressing your frustrations with your own personal limitations. That argument has been used to justify almost every fraudulent product that has ever been. If you want to line yourself up with 100 of years worth of liars, cheats, and fraudsters by mouthing their words, please be my guest. BTW, that argument lasts in court for several nanoseconds, more or less. ;-) Your post shows zero understanding of business law. JS has said he has measured noise, that's enough for me. What he describes accords with my experience of what affects SQ. Your viewpoint doesn't. There are plenty of windbags on the interweb who claim to have never heard any difference and want to enforce that view on others, why they can't just let people hear what they want to hear and discuss it like sensible adults still bemuses me. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Well you are way ahead of me, could you provide a link to that statement? Please describe the reliable means that you have used to observe SQ. Well that's not me. You may have read that I feel that you are free to determine SQ by any means and share it, but of course I will use logic and reason and experience to evaluate it. Are you against the use of logic and reason and experience? There are plenty of placebophiles on the web who claim to have heard any difference no matter how improbable, no matter how flawed their means of evaluation, and want to enforce that view on others. Why they can't just let people hear what they want to hear they way they want to hear it and discuss it like sensible adults? So the regen might work and you're open minded about it, just your understanding of digital electronics might need tweeking. Pity you won't engage in conversation with JS, I feel your current company is holding you back. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: So you're telling me that in your view, the need for science and technology are eliminated by this odd kind of popularity contest? I guess you are unaware of the millions of copies of utterly useless and even harmful products (based on legal actions by various governments), have been sold in the recent past. It has long been known among many that overestimating the gullibility of the public has led to remarkably few financial failures. No, at best it is symptomatic of a product that rushed to market without enough development. One of the so-called improvements that I am aware of involved Improved bass. The idea that subtle changes in the digital domain by a device that does not open the data packets could affect spectral balance is utterly incredible to anybody who understands how digital audio works. Like I said , it is great work if you can get it but my knowledge of technology and my personal ethics puts a damper on that sort of thing for me. YMMV. Not quite the same. JS has a reputation in several forums as a man of integrity and exceptional knowledge in the digital domain. This means people are queuing up to try his latest product, not the public, but people who themselves are knowledgeable to a greater or lesser extent. If there were any issues with it the forums would be full of disgruntled buyers, but I can't see any, in fact they love the idea that they can order a second one which is improved. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Look I followed your link John, and it led nowhere because you didn't check it out. That is your problem. Truth is I'd buy the hub in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the fact that I don't currently need anything else from Monoprice and their minimum shipping fee is as I recall, several times the cost of the part. But, given the vague nature of your follow-on comments, I have every reason to believe that I'd hook the thing up and it would work and that would be that. You are deflecting, John. You claimed that cheap hubs have a strong tendency to seriously damage expensive DACs. What you've shown appears to be a few trivial problems with non-mainstream gear. Let's face it, a Rasberry Pi is a cheap piece of gear all by itself. A missing diode does not equate to instant bench fire and serious damage. As seems to be usual, you make a spectacular-sounding claim and then bring in anything but evidence that actually supports it. Furthermore, this whole line of discussion is in itself a deflection from the fact that as things stand, we have no reliable or empirical evidence that the product we are discussing is anything but a degenerate USB hub that lacks the usual ability to drive more than one device from a single port. Nobody including yourself seems to have been able to point out a technical test or reliable listening test that affirms that the product does anything but take in money from naive placebophiles, add some more potential points of failure and convert energy into heat. considering the first 3 batches are sold out enough people seem to be convinced by the pedigree of the device. JS and Alex have also found improvements to the original design, which I suppose you would call fraudulent consumerist marketing practice rather than two enthusiasts developing their product. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: I googled his name in conjunction with Stereophile and was provided with a list of reviews of recordings. I also obtained what appears to be review of one of his reviews in Stereophile: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/looking-for-great-writing-on-music-in-stereophile-is-like.72755/ At least as far as music articles and album reviews go. (BTW, for a magazine devouted to audiophiles, when was the last time you read a review that talked about the sonics of an album beyond ...it has great dynamics? It seems any insight into the quality of the recording and it's mastering is a mere afterthought, if considered at all.) Anyways, I digress. I saw on the cover that this issue featured The Grateful Dead Live- New CDs and DVDs. I couldn't wait to dig in. Well, that'll teach me. Besides the usual drivel and the look-how-cool-am-I attitude, the article was splashed with errors. Spelling keyboardist Keith Godchaux's name wrong and botching song titles are a few examples of sloppiness. Mr. Swenson, in reference to Skeletons From The Closet (which the author labels as Skeletons In The Closet!), refers to this album- comprised almost entirely of studio cuts- as a great example of the band's early, live multitrack recordings! Sheesh! An article on bluegrass a while back was full of the same kind of errors and crappy prose. Irritating! :realmad: There's this ironic comment about keeping the day job that is running through my mind. Oh, it must be a different John Swenson that consulted for Stereophile. Hopefully. The irony of all this is that a little while ago I challenged someone to provide a little evidence about what sort of poster John Swenson was. They never got back to me with anything I don't think. So I did a little googling. If his posts were along these lines of this 2010 post:http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?82110-Instructions-for-connecting-USB-DAC-to-Touchp=577727viewfull=1#post577727 then it looks pretty good to me! Helpful. Appears to be accurate. Non commercial. Maybe he changed and all people remember is his later work. I think he posts on CA, if you'd like to ask him a question. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
ralphpnj wrote: Rave reviews from where? Links please Yes I'm guilty as charged and damned proud of it! Yes Mr. Swenson was once a contributor to these forums but then he was hired as a consultant by Stereophile and his contributions ceased. Coincidence? As for my understanding of this Uptone Audio Regenerator - I understand well enough that it is solution looking for problem just as asynchronous USB was/is. That's how FUD (the most basic principle in all of high end audio) works - make up a problem and then offer a solution. Well homey don't play that game. you've become a parody of yourself. funny guy. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
ralphpnj wrote: Wow all this pointless discussion and trash talking over $175 tweak. What happen if the item being discussed cost $1750? then you and JULF would step in and shout about audiophoolery and how the manufacturers were ripping off the poor innocent customers, but as it doesn't cost $1750 the only contribution is to imagine if it did. lol I thought Americans celebrated success, here is an innovative product which people are raving about and what do we get, the usual crapola. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: There is no perhaps here. The remark has been forcibly and violently misconstrued. The only question in my mind is whether it was misconstrued as an honest error, or maliciously. It is very possible that some people who read that remark have the same perceptual difficulty that makes it impossible for them to read when I write: Some amplifiers sound different without perceiving: All amplifiers sound the same. Their name is Legion! The above statement is doubly in error. The first error is that I don't have to test every audio system to find that in fact *-some-* of them don't have poor SI. I guess you need to read up on the meaning of the word *-Some-*. All I have to do is test one or a very few of them and find that it doesn't have poor SI. The second error is that I'm not in the business of managing the SI of audio systems, and I have made no claims that special SI modification products cause audible changes (I'm a skeptic about that, too), so the burden of any such proof does not fall on me, but on those who have made a business out of doing the same. I'm just a skeptic trying to use such flawed tools for science and reason as I have to make sense of the world about me and perhaps share a few of my findings with others who may for some odd reason be interested in the same. ;-) Since Mr. Swenson has presented himself as an authority in these things, and does not appear to have provided any empirical evidence let alone proof, it is indeed up to him to back up his claims. As I've said before my role in this situation is being an honest, rational, transparent skeptic. However, it appears that you have been functioning as his advocate and may have invested a little money and ego in his business (IOW equipment purchased or on order). I have no financial arrangements with anybody who competes with him. Unless someone makes a better case for this kind of thing, I never will. I gave this matter a little thought and did some research. The Regen is a novel device - its a USB 2.0 hub with one (1) downstream port. I don't know that there are any other such devices because in terms of the function of a USB hub it makes no sense. The purpose of a USB hub is to connect additional devices to a USB host port, and this one is unable to do that. The normal retail price of a USB 2.0 hub with a useful number (1) downstream ports is about $2, and more like $5 with a external power supply. Those prices are for postpaid delivery of new merchandise from one or more eBay sellers. The parts for making such things are just about a drug on the market because the world is rapidly migrating to USB 3.0. Therefore it appears that Swenson has happened upon a methodology for selling degenerate USB 2.0 hub circuit cards containing obsolete parts for about 22 times market value ($45), and if he adds a case and a power supply his price multiplier is more like 35 ($175). Nice work if you can get it but knowing what I know technically, I'd have to compromise my ethics to do it. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that any person actually doing this sort of thing is either ethically challenged or lacks certain technical knowledge that I am privy to. I don't see any difference between you and jkeny, except a matter of degree - IOW the number of times each of you has violently misconstrued my statements. Jkeny is way ahead in that contest because he's had months more time to do it. Check the annals of the Hydrogen Audio and Audio Video Science forums. His aggressive stance here can be reasonably interpreted as the consequences of hurt pride and possible financial losses that he may blame me for. I'm sure JS can back up the design with measurements, but why should he. Enough people are happy to take a $175 punt on something that is getting rave reviews and is backed up by ground breaking research and engineering. You've obviously got a bee in your bonnet about it, perhaps a beer and a cool shower would help. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] PC internal Noise reduction products
Julf wrote: Ah, yes, now we are on familiar ground - if you can't respond to factual issues, you can at least try to belittle the people you disagree with. sense of humour failure, Julf ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103683 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
arnyk wrote: Back at you, fellow. I ask simple questions, you deflect the discussion into something else, usually personal attacks like the one above. This must be a quote from a post by me to some radical subjectivist! ;-) There is no cleverness here, just a search for reliable truth. There seem to be lot of people who realize that there is a real world, and real improvements in sound quality to be obtained. You just have to stick to reality to find them. You've never explained how acting on false information is a reliable route to actual improvements in sound quality - just another one of those questions that were deflected rather and answered, I guess. Guess we'll find out about the impact of the regen in time. More power to JS for sticking his neck out to produce such a device. One things for certain, the backwoods of the audio forums will always be populated by bitter trolls. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen
http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen What do my learned friends make of the claims made about this product ? Should have you all choking on your cornflakes. lol Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103684 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...
Julf wrote: Then we have our occasional friend with his 'MQn player' (http://2channelaudio.blogspot.nl/2014/02/mqn-minimalist-pc-music-player-king-of.html)... still bitter ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Ready to fly
Mnyb wrote: Thats OK with me thats a fairly resonable idea, except as i have come to understand it the models we have acomodate for any possible pattern or wave form ,but in princible . And it would be quite a leap a modern dac can surpase our own abilities with say 30dB or something similar ,actually orders of magnitude . We can disguss these things it have merits OK. But very much of what audiophiles seriusly suggest is agiainst fundamental physical theories ,there is simply no reasoanable mechanism to explain the effect of many things . The are on the other hand a lot off pshychological effects that can account for the perception they experience . So here occams razor rules . These things should be debunked there is no merit of further debate , you can find such fruitless debate going on for decades... *As others said . Listening test is a good way to account for the unknown ! * but they have to be reasonably controlled to be of any use . Sighted test as done by most hifi rags provides no real data just noise . properly done listening test have most likely unearthed a lots off issues previusly unknown . The transparancy of modern digital electronics is really only constested by audiophiles much in a similar way as for example climate change or evolution is only constended by a special subset of rigth wing american cristians . Its a special culture where all are of similar opinion , ideas from outside these special subcultures can seem strange to the one living rigth in the middle of it . and yet the hifi world goes on and people outside of this forum continue to improve the sound of their systems. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102330 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Official SB Audiophile Forum Quantum Audio Fruitloopery List
Julf wrote: SBGK's 'MQN Player' (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/visual-studio-2012-c-and-wasapi-minimalist-player-15401/), where minor differences in the player software make night and day differences to the sound. 'Audiophile solder' (http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/solder/cardas.htm) It wasn't my fault you got banned from computer audiophile and tirna hifi, but thanks for the shout out. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101564 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Official SB Audiophile Forum Quantum Audio Fruitloopery List
ralphpnj wrote: Julf - you are banned from Computer Audiophile - good work and congratulations! There is one thing about Computer Audiophile that I admire - the site's founder (whose name escapes me) started out as just another audiophile but thanks to the unrelenting kowtowing to the lords of high end audio, by which I mean the Computer Audiophile's willingness to spread all the lies and misconceptions spouted by the high end audio press and many manufacturers, he as now become an industry insider and has been granted all the privileges that come along with insider status, such as the ability to get loans of some very nice audio equipment as well other special treatment from the industry. Good work. By the way, I hope most of you understand why I put the word loans in quotes :) Edit: I really should not say admire since the admirable thing to do with the Computer Audiophile site would have been to try to disprove and dispel all the lies and misconceptions spouted by the high end audio press but then he would have to actually buy all that fancy equipment now being loaned to him. Bribery, in all it's forms, whether outright or hidden (i.e. equipment loans and insider pricing), is a very useful tool. ralph, hope your health isn't affected by the constant stream of bile you spout forth. It's only hifi. Perhaps you need another hobby. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101564 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET TEST: 24-bit vs. 16-bit Audio Blind Test...
Archimago wrote: As typical for that site. For more details around that 44 vs. 88kHz paper, have a look at this thread: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=82264 Remember, only 3/16 listeners in that paper got significant results overall and all admitted to feeling doubtful about their results. To say Within a few seconds, we both realized he had picked the CD-quality version since it sounded flatter, duller, and mostly just plain worse than the track we'd listened to earlier doesn't seem to ring true. If anything, this speaks to the likelihood of different masterings if indeed one of the versions sounded much worse than the other. Of course, that blog post neglects to comment on this or whether perhaps there are other differences like volume level changes. Don't forget folks, Ella and Louis was recorded in 1956. The tape noise floor on that recording is high - significantly worse than 16-bits. Just what kind of benefit do we expect to gain from a high resolution digital version at 24/96? Mike obviously prefers to poke fun at objective analysis and further his amazing hearing ability. Yay for him. Also, that MP3 test showed no significant preference for CD/MP3 with 256kbps and 320kbps. That's exactly what many of us here believe and was shown with the MP3 test last year. In fact, on the graph the Musician group didn't fare well with MP3 128 192kbps using acoustic music! Not sure what he's trying to prove... Again... Yay for him. with mp3 vs cd all that is required is to find a complicated bit of music and it will be evident that the psychoacoustics employed by mp3 cannot resolve the detail and it becomes slurred, no A/B testing required just listen to a 10s segment for slurred detail compared to the CD version, the detail is either there or not there. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101386 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Thank you
Quad wrote: Maybe I should see a doctor. I always try to be loved by everyone. :-) I think it is time to say thank you to some of the forum members who constantly point out scientific arguments against audiophile myths. This saved me money and energy. Here is what I stopped doing because of you: - Buying expensive RCA cables. While I can't say they all sound the same to me, the price rarely correlates with my joy listening to them. Some surprisingly cheap but solid cables subjectively often beat their highly praised and expensive counterparts. - Buying hi-res stuff. Some of my all-time favorite recordings are standard 44.1/16bit. No need and no possibility to improve (eg some re-masters by MFSL). On the other hand there are quite a few hi-res recordings that are a rip off (eg Hotel California, Come Away With Me, Supernatural, Rumours,...). And on top of all, some of my all-time favorite music is recorded quite poorly anyway. And I still love it. - I didn't and I will not hop on the DSD train. Basically for the same reasons as above. And ironically, those labels who offer DSD are often the ones that already care about sound quality. For these recordings the difference is minimal if any. And for those companies who don't care it's worthless to buy their recordings in DSD anyway. - I gave up on JPlay. It's not worth the effort. Its most purist setting asks you to manually drag drop music files into their player. Then you have to wait a couple of seconds or even minutes to let them be loaded into memory. Finally your computer goes into hibernate mode and you can start listening. No seeking, no browsing, no cover art, no multi-room. This is a complete and obsolete anachronism in the age of music streaming. It is almost the same royal PITA as vinyl, but without the nostalgia. And it doesn't sound better to me, there is no reason why it should. Cheers PS: But remember, I passed a properly designed ABX test for MP3@320kbs vs. FLAC with a recording I own physically, ripped and converted by myself. I would be more than happy to reproduce the result for you at any time. Sorry couldn't resist. :-) squeezelite sounds pretty awful out of the box, have you tried jlp which is a modified portaudio/squeezelite. HDMI into the m51 is not the best either, better results from say a J Kenny Cuinas + coax or mf vlink 192 aes/ebu. I guess you got win 2012 via msdn otherwise how do you justify £600 on an O/s + £100 for the optimiser. The problem with HDMI is that it's designed for encrypted signals so there is a bit of processing going on which can be heard in comparison to sp/dif, AES/EBU. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Shilling for Dollars
I respectfully disagree with your viewpoints, apart from Mr Swenson. I can't see these magazines changing any time soon so look forward to plenty more of these Ralph PNJ acolytes threads. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99360 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Synergistic Research Tesla T2 SE, T3 SE, PowerCell 4!
Can you prove your measurements are relevant to how something sounds ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100883 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Clowntime is NOT over
or maybe you guys are wrong and the rest of the world is right. Is that a possibility ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100783 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone used this... AudiophileOptimizer
Deaf Cat wrote: Hi, Seems to get rather good results reading about it on various forums, but not come across anyone using it with a slimdevices set up, just wondered? http://www.highend-audiopc.com/optimizer.html cheers DC of course it makes a difference, does win 7 sound the same as win 8 ? You can try altering the priority of the logitech server program on your pc eg high to low, if you can't hear any difference then optimisations may not help, otherwise learn to think for yourself and try things out instead of looking for opinions from people with a bits are bits agenda. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100440 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Just when you thought it couldn't get worse...
Julf wrote: I guess it is a result of the sum of intelligence on the planet being a constant while the population is growing. and I think Julf was called out and given a warning for trolling, nothing new there. Those that can do, those that can't gossip. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100027 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Just when you thought it couldn't get worse...
SBGK wrote: and I think Julf was called out and given a warning for trolling, nothing new there. Those that can do, those that can't gossip. It's nice to see Julf start his own thread for a change, even if it is one that links to one of his trolling episodes. has Julf been banned from CA ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100027 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Just when you thought it couldn't get worse...
SBGK wrote: has Julf been banned from CA ? seems so Julf - When your CA membership was reinstated you agreed not to engage in unprofessional behavior. Based on a review of your posts since that time I believe you've violated that agreement. A warning simply doesn't go far enough. I've decided to ban you from the CA forums for good. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100027 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Just when you thought it couldn't get worse...
andy_c wrote: The level of bulls--- in high end audio is an always-increasing function. So if you thought it couldn't get worse, remember that tomorrow is another day! :D the coding I've been doing could conceivably be used in any audio player, so you might benefit from it in the future Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100027 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Just when you thought it couldn't get worse...
garym wrote: The problem is that unprofessional behavior at CA seems to be daring to bring up facts, science, and engineering in a thread. oh well, he's now free to troll in slim forums and PFM. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100027 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Just when you thought it couldn't get worse...
garym wrote: Yes. Thankfully now and then has become less and less over the last few years. have reported this personal attack Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100027 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How would you spend this windfall? (DAC question)
bzlrbi wrote: After a couple months of aggravation, I've finally convinced my insurance company and their designated electronics repair folks that my Transporter is not repairable. It got zapped in an electrical storm. The unrepairable part is in the pre-amp section: it buzzes if connected from the analog outputs to an integrated amp (which, somehow, took them two months and three visits to my home for them to agree with me). Anyway, the insurance company have already given me $1300 (ignoring the deductible) replacement cost and will give me up to another $700 if I spend up to $2000 to replace it (as you can still get an unopened unit via Amazon for this price). The good news is that the digital part of the Transporter seems AOK... it streams fine, and if you run it through another DAC, no buzz at all. The repair company is going to return the unit (once again). So, I think I could buy an external DAC for up to $2000 and, basically, get a $700 discount on it. If I don't spend more than $1300, I leave that $700 on the table. What would you do? I went from a dac1 to Nad M51 and the difference is quite large (suppose it was double the price), you also get a world class digital preamp with the Nad which is probably worth the money in itself + HDMI input which sounds very good as well. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99265 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
Julf wrote: Any specific reasons to prefer WAV? I think the general view is that with lower-end processors (such as those in the squeezeboxes) that don't have dedicated I/O processors the additional network load caused by the wasted bits in WAV files causes more CPU load (and thus theoretically sound degradation) than the FLAC decoding, and the usual WAV problems of lack of tagging standards etc. are always a hassle. what are these wasted bits ? wav decoding is find the headers, work out the bit rate/depth, find the data section, render pcm to output device flac decoding is as above plus decoding flac to pcm is there any more to it than that ? do you have any measurements to support the theoretical sound degradation ? I've always found WAVs sound better. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Do Bit-perfect Digital S/PDIF Transports Sound The Same?
Archimago wrote: Where are you saying is the WM8805 SPDIF receiver in this post? That was the SPDIF receiver in the old AUNE X1, not the ASUS Essence One... I assume therefore you are the one mistaken. Toslink can exhibit several 100ns of jitter - do you mean ps? I'm pretty sure I show 100+ps difference with the Transporter's TosLink vs. coaxial if one were to calculate the peaks. BTW: What's with the To me this (your) exercise is useless and misleading comment? Such an offensive tone is barely constructive in this or really any domain don't you think? Suppose you were correct in your comments above... Don't you think it's still useful to document the (slight) differences between transport devices and encourage others to explore the question since results could vary depending on the SPDIF receivers? based on your measurements, you seem happy for Mynb to draw the conclusion that ..and thats why I think the unmodded Touch is a sufficiently good transport for any and all systems and listeners , It's limitation to only 24/96 is of no particular concern either . which is not the real world experience of hundreds of touch users, perhaps that is why they are useless and misleading. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99073 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
