[FairfieldLife] Re: Interpreting Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip Thanks LB. And its nice to have you back on FFL. (new.morning = akasha = omg, from past lives, if the style and themes were not a tip off.) Thank you, Richard. (Hope you don't mind me using your name as listed in the Members directory.) I am trying to minimize my participation here, mostly for pragmatic reasons having to do with availability of time and energy. Therefore I will be limiting my responses, somewhat. Instead of trying to respond to every point raised, I will just hit the ones where I think I have something useful to contribute, and will not be just adding to the rhetoric and polemics. If you feel I've shorted you on some significant point, however, please feel free to draw it to my attention. Previously I said: The 108 pieces of darshan in the Upadesh Amrit collection represent only a fragment of Guru Dev's public discourses. Strung together, they would amount to a couple of hours, at most. Nevertheless, I believe they represent the wholeness of his teaching, and represent it accurately. You replied: I take your word on it. But are there reasons also one might not come to such a conclusion. If so, can you elaboate. On both sides. By wholeness here I am referring to that elusively quality that tells you, This is the Whole Thing, the Real Thing. It's that quality that makes you feel more awake when you have come into contact with it. Some of the discourses in the Upadesh Amrit collection have a somewhat pedestrian quality, perhaps, from the point of view of some of the sophisticated intellects who post here, but others are almost startling in their depth and directness. Taken together, the wholeness contained therein is unmistakable, in my opinion. Others may disagree. My confidence in the authenticity comes from two fundamental sources: First, the provenance of the texts, which is historically established. Second, it is also well known that Brahmanandaji was not much concerned with anything amounting to what we would call political correctness. Everything that has been reported about his life indicates that he was so absorbed in realization that he cared nothing for mere opinions. He was an embodiment of truth. For him, truth was known through the shastras and through realization. He had no room in his life for anything else. I continued: It has previously been pointed out that Brahmanandaji's teachings were somewhat conditioned by historical and cultural conditions of his time and place. As New Morning has pointed out in a different context, perhaps we could all benefit by considering the limitations we bring to interpreting them. Also, with regard to those who feel especially close or intimate relationship with Brahmanandaji in this lifetime, You brought up the following counterpoints which are interleaved with my comments below: And ironically, one thing MMY has whispered to entire large courses, is that, paraphrsing I do not communicate with you in visions. Guru Dev does not communicate with you in visions. He did, in such lectures, and at other times, point out that various entities (like astral entities -- my words) can take the form of anything in visions and even real life and trick people. He always said, If I need to, I will communicated with you by phone. snip I would offer one small suggestion: We have seen so many examples wherein the guru whispers one thing into the ear of the disciple at his right hand, and something entirely different to the disciple at his left. [Taking MMY as a guru who has whispered,] if he whispered it to each, how would we know it was different? We only know by different accounts of what each staff said he/she heard. Thats several layers removed from what MMY may actually have said to each. The advanced technique confusion is a good example of this possibly distortional layering. (As is the parlor game telephone.) Even in something as important as advanced technique instruction, it may be that people's inner knowledge of what was meant -- filtered by knowledge of what should be, clouds the actual instructions conveyed. Would it have been different with Guru Dev? Do we know for sure, one way or the other? If we are confident that Guru Dev speaks to us directly, that is fine, But is contrary to what MMY told 1000's at a time. Its odd IF he would whisper something else to some others. But in cases on this forum, I don't think MMY whispered anything to anyone. So its a student interpreting something as happening that MMY said would never happen. But its a delicate area. IMO, IME, things like puja are clear attunement with holiness. To use others' terms, its like a clear transmission of that state lived by saints (of the tradition). But thats
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interpreting Guru Dev
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just want to make one point regarding the the discussion on interpreting Guru Dev. Why interpret at all? It is like interpreting the sun. I think sometimes we can get so intellectually caught up in experiences that we become nearly blind to the experience itself. Live it for what it is. If there is a need to interpret it, that already removes us from the experience. Just live it, like the pervasive warmth of the sun. Hi Jim, I like the general sense of what you have said here. In responding, I will try to launch from as close to this perspective as I can, and work backward to what I had in mind with my original post. Every life is a commentary on the absolute, an individual interpretation of the universal. In that sense, it is impossible to avoid interpretation. The motivator behind my original post was the observation that Guru Dev's words were being used to settle arguments, or to buttress one individual's interpretation against another's. I believe that most kinds of texts can benefit from analysis. I do not believe that all opinions will found to be equally valid under proper analysis, but when inquiry is conducted in the right spirit, knowledge awakens. Some of the conclusions being drawn in this forum seemed a bit shallow to me. However, I am not interested in rebutting them individually. I just wanted to point out pragmatic reasons why these quotes should be approached with an open mind. Ciao, L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interpreting Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only interpreting that should be done on Guru Dev is in the choice of word to use for translating a Hindi or Sanskrit word. So the word 'parivartana' is interpreted as 'change' or 'transfer'. So it is unlikely that he meant 'interchange' or 'mutability' or 'reduction'. However he used the English word 'class' so I would interpret that he probably meant 'class', but I guess we could argue. I agree wholeheartedly with this philosophy of translation, and would add a few qualifying remarks: Although this sometimes comes as a surprise to those with no experience in translating, no language maps to any other language one-to-one. That is, there is not necessarily a corresponding word in Dictionary B to the word you are trying to define from Dicionary A. In the same way, concepts do not map, from culture to culture, one-to one. The same English word may have a slightly different meaning in India than it has here. As a result of factors such as these, the best translators I have spoken with agree that sometimes a liberal translation serves the truth better than a literal one. In that sense, good translation is more an art than a science. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on changing gurus
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'Bhagavad' is the word used in the text (I just double-checked). But of course the transcriber could have misheard or indeed the typesetter might have mispelled the word. But either way, Bhagavan or Bhagavad, same really, means 'Lord' or 'God' or 'OMnipotent One'. I wouldn't describe myself as 'fluent', no, but on the other hand I do check every single word and the words I don't know I look up in one of my dictionaries, I use four different Hindi dictionaries (Allied, Oxford, National Bhargava's), and a M-W Sanskrit 'slab'. Any new definitions get added to a database, which enables me, with the help of MSaccess, to offer text and get a list of all available words related to the current translation. This can be really useful when Guru Dev uses obscure terms which he sometimes does. Although it would be preferable to be really fluent, the downside of a fluent speaker is that they are unlikely to look up commonly used words as a consequence can miss an obscure meaning. Thanks. I laud yours and others, such as LB's, efforts. Its valuable to me. The more I read, some pretty fundamental quetions arise. See adjacent posts. However, my sense of your process,and that of LB's editing of his copy of the material (its the same source -- hindi manuscript -- for both of you,correct?), is that while its thorough and meticulous, it may be subject to the poetry effect of Bly and ? mentioned in posts a few days ago regarding arabic / sufi poetry. That is, do you you have a sense of what SBS must have meant, and the 2-20 meanings in the dictionary for each word are chosen to jibe with that must be area of meaning? What if your feeling is wrong? Then again, translators not having that must be feeling may produce disasters. When I first starting working on the translation, I sometimes went by the must have meant method. Early in the game I realized that was unsatisfactory. I realized that I could render a paragraph that would read OK to most readers, but which could be wrong. To that end, I aquired more professional help and outside consultants with subject matter expertise. (They will be credited in the book.) The goal of my work has been to render, insofar as possible without distortion or speculation, WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID. Nothing more, nothing less. And what about idioms, yogi slang :), and regional meanings of the words? If one is either not fluent in hindi, and/or not intimately current on the syntax and venacular of yogis and swamis 1920-1950, can some meanings be missed? Brahmanandaji spoke vernacular hindi with a slight flavor that the translators described as somewhat regional or antiquated, yet eloquent without being elegant. Although there are occasional obscure idioms (annoted in the text), for the most part his delivery is dirt simple. For some of the discourses I have had as many as 4 original translations to work from, and a minimum of 3 for the entire set. I have found little disagreement or variation. Some of my TM based readers have suggested alterations based on TM doctrine (we know what this word must really mean) but I have generally not found such alternations to be justified by the context. In cases where doubts arose, I made it my business to get second and third opinions. There is no such thing as a perfect translation, but the one I am offering has survived profound scrutiny, and I am confident that it reflects WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Interpreting Guru Dev
I have just finished reading New Morning's post on Innocence (112511). Highly perceptive regarding the nature of many of the exchanges here on FFL, and the underlying psychology. I would like to add a few thoughts about interpreting the words of Guru Dev, which are now becoming available for all to read. I have not gone back to examine all the threads based on Paul's release of selected discourses, but I have looked into a few and it seems as though they are launching at least as many debates as they are settling. The 108 pieces of darshan in the Upadesh Amrit collection represent only a fragment of Guru Dev's public discourses. Strung together, they would amount to a couple of hours, at most. Nevertheless, I believe they represent the wholeness of his teaching, and represent it accurately. On the other hand, the words in this collection are from his public discourses, not from his private talks with close disciples. To the best of my knowledge, no material of the second type exists, although we cannot rule out that possibility altogether. It has previously been pointed out that Brahmanandaji's teachings were somewhat conditioned by historical and cultural conditions of his time and place. As New Morning has pointed out in a different context, perhaps we could all benefit by considering the limitations we bring to interpreting them. Also, with regard to those who feel especially close or intimate relationship with Brahmanandaji in this lifetime, I would offer one small suggestion: We have seen so many examples wherein the guru whispers one thing into the ear of the disciple at his right hand, and something entirely different to the disciple at his left. Would it have been different with Guru Dev? Do we know for sure, one way or the other? If we are confident that Guru Dev speaks to us directly, that is fine, but we should keep in mind: This is what he says to me. What he says to another is none of my business. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard Geoffrey Clements say something similar many years ago, when he visited Norway. When we meditate TM - something is happening in the brain, more coherence. If we meditate with people that is not doing TM - their vibes will disturb our brain wave function. Some of the TB's told us not to have non-meditating friends - because it was not good for us, and never meditate in the same room as others that used other meditation technique. I think I would be very comfortable to meditate in the same room as Yogananda and Guru Dev. Ingegerd When I first came to MIU in the mid-70s, a friend told me that once during meditation he felt a presence sitting next to him. The thought came, Zen Buddhist. A voice spoke to him telepathically and said, What right do you have to transcend? Then it continued: This is how I transcend. At that moment, according to my friend, the bottom fell out and he plunged into the deepest meditation he had ever experienced. As I recall, he didn't find the experience to be negative. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/1/06 10:02 AM, L B Shriver at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I first came to MIU in the mid-70s, a friend told me that once during meditation he felt a presence sitting next to him. The thought came, Zen Buddhist. A voice spoke to him telepathically and said, What right do you have to transcend? Then it continued: This is how I transcend. At that moment, according to my friend, the bottom fell out and he plunged into the deepest meditation he had ever experienced. As I recall, he didn't find the experience to be negative. I remember that story. Who was that? Sorry, I remember the story clear-as-a-bell, but don't remember who told it. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip (Terminology is interesting. Pro-TMer isn't considered disparaging by either those who support TM or its critics, yet anti-TMer evokes howls of outrage from the latter. And while anti-TMer is considered offensive by the critics, it doesn't bother them at all to label the pro-TMers TBs/True Believers.) This is an astute observation. For example, I occasionally use the True Believer or equivalent lable, while at the same time I usually reject the anti-TM label when applied to yours truly. The moral equivalency of labels is usually an uncomfortable topic for those who like to use them. On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily follow that what we might call the truth content of the labels is equivalent. As I'm sure you are aware, it's much easier to be impartial about topics in which we are not personally involved. If, for example, we were having a discussion about a group of Christian fundamentalists that was experiencing fragmentation and schism over the years, we would probably be able to identify familiar roles being played out. Furthermore, we would probably have no difficulty accepting the prevailing view among educated people that the hard core membership of the organization is likely to be more narrow-minded and paranoid than the membership at the fringe, and tend to view them more negatively than anyone else would. True believership is a well-documented phenomenon, and is usually associated with some form of cognitive or development deficit. Having said that, it is also only too true that those outside the core are often blind to their own prejudices and negative thinking. In effect, their thought processes are virtually indistinguishable from the TB's. What a beautiful universe. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Terminology is interesting. Pro-TMer isn't considered disparaging by either those who support TM or its critics, yet anti-TMer evokes howls of outrage from the latter. And while anti-TMer is considered offensive by the critics, it doesn't bother them at all to label the pro-TMers TBs/True Believers.) This is an astute observation. For example, I occasionally use the True Believer or equivalent lable, while at the same time I usually reject the anti-TM label when applied to yours truly. The thing is, True Believer is actually more accurate than pro-TMer. True Believer implies all of the characteristics that Eric Hoffer wrote about in his books, while pro-TMer only implies someone who feels that the TM *technique* itself is beneficial. The term anti-TMer is incredibly inaccurate, and IMO consciously so. I would say that *most* of the people here who have problems with some of the TM dogma and some of the TMO behavior have *no* such problems with the basic TM technique itself. The attempt to call someone who has problems with some of the TM dogma and many of the actions of the TMO an anti-TMer is DISHONEST. MOST of the folks here who have been called anti-TMers by one of Hoffer's classic TBs have NO problems with TM the technique. It's just that the TBs want people to *think* that they do. Read the list of Hoffer's criteria for a True Believer. THAT is what I am referring to when I term someone a TB or True Believer. I am *not* suggesting merely that they are pro-TM and that being a pro-TMEer is a bad thing. Hell, *I* am actually pro-TM in that I think that the basic TM technique has value. But at the same time I believe that many of the personality traits and behaviors exhibited by the True Believers are very damaging indeed, both to themselves and to others. Shame on you for snipping! SHAME SHAME SHAME. Just kidding of course. But note that in the part you snipped, I said: On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily follow that what we might call the truth content of the labels is equivalent. Furthermore, we would probably have no difficulty accepting the prevailing view among educated people that the hard core membership of the organization is likely to be more narrow-minded and paranoid than the membership at the fringe, and tend to view them more negatively than anyone else would. This is the part that agrees with your points, which are all well-taken. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Weapons of Mass Destruction
repercussions. Fear and mistrust, on a subtle level, begin to permeate the atmosphere. Furthermore: despite the arcane explanations of the movement, most people feel the real motivation behind the exclusions is transparently clear: punishment. We were supposed to be the generation that would break the cycle of ignorance by refusing to repeat the mistakes of history. Well, here is one we missed: It is not possible to create an ideal society based on exclusion. This was attempted in Nazi Germany and Pol Pot's Cambodia. Despite the existence of logical arguments as to why it should have worked, it didn't. The Vedic principle behind the group program (as I understand it, and with apologies for not remembering the Sanskrit) is: In the vicinity of yoga, no enemy is found. It does not read, In the vicinity of yoga, no enemies are issued badges. Still, the exclusions continue. For the record, I know many people who have heterodox programs, but VERY, VERY FEW have ever advocated practicing any kind of alien techniques in the Dome. So the question remains: With very little possibility that people will be practicing anything other than their TM and TM Sidhi programs, what is the harm in letting them practice with the group? People often ask me about the reasons for my own exclusion, or the exclusion of some mutual acquaintance. I have given up trying to explain it. I just tell them, Weapons of mass destruction. Most people just laugh when I say that and there is no further need for discussion. For those who still appear confused, I elaborate. They say I have weapons of mass destruction, and they can't let me in because I'm a threat to the course participants. I encourage my friends to reject these empty arguments about the harm that MIGHT be done if the heretic is allowed inside the temple, and to accept the proposition that In the vicinity of yoga, no enemy is found. The blacklisting program through the years has had substantial, observable negative effects on the community, not the least of which, one might argue, has been the pathetic slide of Dome attendance to abysmal depths. If the movement leadership is really committed to Superradiance. let them demonstrate their commitment to an Ideal Society by bringing their acceptance policies all the way into Sat Yuga. L B Shriver To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Paul Mason, a wolf in disguise?!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Someone recently threatened to kill Shiva Ma for stirring up a fuss about the dome, but that may have just been an empty threat, like children use. As I have been able to piece it together, it was not even like that. It was more intended as a confrontational shock tactic intended to jolt the exchange into a different level. It failed, and was probably poorly considered, but the individual who made the threat is, to the best of my knowledge, no more capable of harming Shiva Ma than you are. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reply below. snip Myself, I haven't applied to this course. Not because I wouldn't want to...I would just LOVE to participate in a program with 1,000 other people...it would be, simply, wonderful. And it's not that I would be excluded unless having the occasional Sunday night dinner at the Hare Krishna temple or attending weekly yoga classes are punishable offenses...gee, anyone think that maybe they WOULD be if I put them down on the form? It's just that I would be extemely uncomfortable OUTSIDE the Dome, say, in the dining room or the lecture hall where the inevitable conversations would come up about the TMO and MMY and I would to hear stuff that I totally disagree with...things that I am fundamentally opposed to. It is, admittedly, my own weakness but I think it best NOT to be around the TMO and its activities when I feel so fundamentally opposed to some of its policies and practises. My anger would overshadow my tranquility of being there and I would not be able to hold back my unhappiness and would express it to those around me thus, in turn, making THEM uncomfortable...and I wouldn't want to do that, especially if I would then be earmarked as a trouble-maker. So I stay away. snip to end I think this is legitimate. I applaud the maturity and compassion in your recognition that your hard feelings are your own baggage and that you don't wish to inflict them on others. It is probably a good rule of thumb that one shouldn't be a party pooper. As I told one of the course officers while still engaged in the application process (in response to questions about my thinking about various controversial issues); My thinking about things is pretty much the same. It is the feeling that has changed. I don't feel much need to argue or to lobby for a point of viewunless someone is trying to cram movement BS down my throat. Believe it or not, that still happens sometimes. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev Book
As some of you have noticed, until quite recently I have been taking an extended sabbatical from posting on FFL. In fact, I wasn't reading, either, so I am way out of touch with some threads and other developments. I noticed that Paul has posted several selections from his translation of the Upadesh Amrit collection of Guru Dev's talks, the same book I have been working on for several years. [In my case, not as the translator, but as the editor.] I'm sure many of you have wondered why I have been so silent regarding the book, and no doubt some have reached disappointing conclusions regarding the likelihood of its appearance. Not to worry. It is nearly finished. When I began work on the project, I was given some higher guidance to the effect that there was no obstacle to publication, but it could only happen at the appropriate time. Somewhat problematically, I was not informed when that would be. The subsequent practical experience was that sometimes the work could proceed rapidly, while other times it seemingly could not proceed at all. To be sure, various apparent obstacles appeared with irritating frequency. In retrospect, it seems to me that they were just Nature's way of putting on the brakes so that the project didn't get to the finish line prematurely. The most substantial of the impeding influences affecting me directly was the protracted illness suffered by my mother prior to her passing away this past May. For most of the past 5 years, I have been primarily focused on her needs during her ordeals with hospitalization and moving from her home into assisted living quarters. Three major hospitalizations, two moves of all her worldly possessions, and a year and a half of dealing with the system to ensure that all her Medicare, Medicaid, Frail and Elderly Waiver, etc, were in place and functioningall in all, pretty much of a nightmare. During most of this period, it was more or less impossible to work on the book. Naturally, I became aware that people were impatient, or developing negative expectations, but there was no question in my mind where my most pressing responsibilities were. I just determined to do what had to be donein order of importance. Many factors have entered into the progress of the book. Resistance from the organization included some mild intimidation, but I ignored that. In fact, the book was brought up again during my application for the current course, and it was suggested that I might consider dropping it. I politely reaffirmed that this was not an option from my side. Now that my mother's business is mostly finished, I am gradually getting back to a life of my own. However, I am way behind on almost everything I have going. Where the book is concerned, a recent breakthrough was the completion of the proofing of the hindi and Sanskrit transliterations in the text and the notes. There is a bit more work remaining on the introduction and appendices, but all of that material has been completely researched and outlined. A half-dozen or so extremely minor questions remain on the text, but they will be easily resolved within the next few weeks. The talks themselves are now completely translated and annotated. Circumstances currently require that I devote an uncomfortable amount of time to financing my slightly substandard lifestyle. Fortunately, the book project has now reached the point where a bit of assistance with the proofing, etc, can greatly facilitate the eventual production. Please think positively about this project so as not to add to the energies of those who wish it would just go away. Thanks. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Fairfield's future
Fairfield's Future Over the past several years, I have engaged in countless conversations about the state of Fairfield and its prospects for the future. I have generally taken the position that Fairfield's best years are yet to come. A few years ago, most of the people I engaged on this topic were surprised by my position and only a few agreed. Within the past year, however, I would say that the majority agree: Fairfield's best years are yet to come. Fairfield has a unique mix of businesses and industries. The only weakness there is that the economic base is not currently strong enough to support more people who would like to be living here but can't afford it. Nevertheless, the infrastructure here is good and the local government is forward-looking, The entrepreneurial environment is outstanding. In what some would regard as a worst case scenario, we must consider the possibility that the university might tank. Although on one level that would be a loss, no one knows what might follow in its wake, including many fresh possibilities that none of us have considered. On the other hand, the university has shown some signs of life lately. Aside from the physical transformation of the campus, it has attracted some talented people. There are signs here and there of the tide finally turning. Too early to say how far this will go, but if the university has its own little renaissance, the rest of the community will benefit as well. It is my contention that either waywith or without a viable TM organizationFairfield will thrive. I admit there is a bit of a paradox here that is uncomfortable for some people to address. It is simply this: Without Maharishi this community would never have been created, and the opportunities and quality of life found here would never have come into existence. On the other, the days are long gone where one could legitimately say that Fairfield is Maharishi's town. It has evolved into something more complex and diverse, and in my view it is this evolutionary development toward diversity that gives the community its viability. The judgement that this diversity is damaging to the community is both an anachronism and a source of continuing bad feeling within the community. In fact, this judgement itself is perhaps the biggest single barrier to the community's progress, at least on the spiritual level. There are signs lately that this judgmentalism is softening within the university. Of course, there is no lack of judgments being held in the community south of the university, either. The difference is that the TMO has the capability to enforce some of its judgments, therefore signs of progress there bode well for all of us. This is why I am optimistic about the future of the community. One way or another, the most spiritually regressive aspects of the community consciousness will be purged. There is nothing especially magic or unexpected about this; when something goes as far as it can go in one direction, the pendulum, as they say, swings the other way. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: A bad day redefined, and captured in photos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.idiots-guide.org/badday.htm Here's the rest of the story: http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/crane.asp To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: major snip Clearly you haven't thought all this through at all. That's true, and now that you mention it, I was a lot happier not thinking about it than thinking about it. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Responses interleaved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but this one is both precise and comprehensive. Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in treating aging, long- term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually are a small number who still prefer it that way. I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words would have a completely different effect by this time. When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more turned off to the teaching. My guess is that although FFL is a small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both these sides. The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are severe methodological and sociological barriers to establishing the numbers. Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized hot buttons around certain topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result, FF can be a conversational mine field. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB. is exactly what I heard from my marginally on the program friends. snip It's such a weird world. Apparently there are actually quite a few people still being rejected, but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard. If they knew how much it would improve their PR to let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat. But they don't. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Big snip My partner and I have been noticing among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my meditation. Just a livelier time, all around. I have noticed this change in the quality of dreams also. It's really been fascinating to explore another, much deeper level of the dreaming mind. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Reply below.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000
bmorry2000@ wrote:
They are letting everyone in the dome--except
LB. is exactly what
I heard from my marginally on the program friends.
snip
It's such a weird world. Apparently there are
actually quite a few people still being rejected,
but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.
If they knew how much it would improve their PR to
let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat.
But they don't.
L B S
Their loss, L.B.. Why don't you tell John to call MMY
and ask him if you should be let in the dome? You
could tell John that he is in no position to accept
the karma of blocking the good intent of someone who
wants to get in the dome. Only MMY can decide that. On
an ATR ('77) I was on many moons ago, someones mother
was being blocked from attending TTC because she
taught asanas. When MMY came to see us her son told
MMY directly about the situation he was surprised. He
said outloud something like: She can't go to TTC
because she's teaching asanas? He acted like it was
the stupidest decision he had ever heard. He turned to
his secretary and told him to fix it. His mom got on
TTC right away.
Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this
time, having
recently stuck his neck out quite a lot.
I do not at this time feel any impulse toward further action, although that
could change in
the future, of course.
I promised myself when I was excommunicated that when I went back into the Dome
it
could only be one way: straight up and clean. In one sense that means no
recanting or
grovelling, but it also means being in a state of equanimity with respect to
the outcome.
When I feel a true impulse to act I will do so, but I am OK biding my time,
even if it means
another 12 years.
L B S
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Well LB, it's good to be number 1 (VBG for the humor impaired). I hope you're not really disappointed, and having fun. Well, I didn't make it to Woodstock, either, but I don't lay awake nights wondering if my life would be perfect now if I'd just been a bit more ambitious about finding a ride. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
Dear Friends at FFLife, It's been awhile since I've had time or inclination to check in, but I thought it might be useful to relate my experiences applying for the current superradiance course in progress here. I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. I am satisfied that my case was given as fair and favorable a review as possible under the circumstances, and with the exception of one or two moderately bumpy exchanges, I can assure you that my interactions with the course office were cordial and respectful on both sides. The point I am making here is: Yes, things are a bit different, and the changes are positive. I had not intended to apply for this course, inasmuch as I anticipated there was not much likelihood that I would be accepted. However, the daily barrage of encouragement from my many friends who were absolutely convinced that I would be accepted took its toll, and I figured that the worst case scenario was that I would be able to show them that I was right and they were wrong. And we all know how beautiful it is to be right. During the process, I would have to admit, I was won over. Not so much by the process itself, but by the glowing reports I have been hearing from countless friends who have been participating. I offer a few observations and conclusions: Something special is definitely going on here. Not just the obviousWhat? A FREE COURSE from the movement?!?but also in the experiences people are having and in the interactions with Maharishi. Considering how the prospects for the Movement were looking a year ago, it strikes me as nothing short of miraculous. Furthermore, this could be a one-of-a-kind. There will be crises in the future, to be sure, but whether this opportunity will be available is not a given. I don't know anyone who really expected Maharishi to be interacting so freely with course participants EVER again. Although I have not been participating in the group programs, I definitely feel the surge of wakefulness that has arrived with this program, and am feeling the benefits. I found the process of applying to be useful in terms of letting go of old garbagehard feelings, etc. I have no regrets about that. For the record, I do not feel that I compromised any of my own ethical principles in this process, nor did I grovel. Nor do I believe that by groveling I could have changed the ultimate result of my application. I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two-fisted assertions and queries. I am aware that many of you who are not participating in this course may be simply uninterested, and I am OK with that. However, if you are in the category (as I was for quite some time) of individuals whose reasons for not applying basically boil down to hard feelings, then I would encourage you to lighten up a bit and take a chance. I did, and have no regrets. Ciao, L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. This is essentially the Weapons of Mass Destruction argumentit is convenient, but doesn't match the facts on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather have them let me in and drop this blacklisting bullshit. Despite that, my application actually did get into the region where acceptance was a possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry it through this time. From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I believe that if you want more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. The pendulum has swung so far to weirdness, resulting in about the 12th round of alienation which started with the sidhis, that maybe it's starting to swing back. Probably too late for any meaningful resurgence. But just the same, maybe we can all still be friends again. I mean had TMO gotten to the point whereby even reading Autobiography of a Yogi 15 yrs. ago would put you OTP. That's kind of the impression I had. I think you've captured the sense of it. Something is changing, and apparently for the better. Too early to say for sure how far or exactly what direction, but it's definitely shifting. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good to hear from you L.B. I thought you had enough good sense to stay away from FFL, I'm glad you don't though! ;-) Surely you recognize the diagnosis, Dr Sutphen: temporary insanity. L B S __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip Too early to say for sure how far or exactly what direction, but it's definitely shifting. L B S Forgive me for a seeming lack of 'cosmicallity' or subtleness but I'll believe it when I see it. From a distance it seems like necessity is driving any changes, not a change of heart. JohnY Like I said, it's a shift, not a revolution. I had been hearing about it for the last year or so without seeing evidence until now. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip There aren't many 'grass roots' left for changes to arise from except the ground of Being Fortunately, that's the one that counts. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. This is essentially the Weapons of Mass Destruction argumentit is convenient, but doesn't match the facts on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather have them let me in and drop this blacklisting bullshit. Despite that, my application actually did get into the region where acceptance was a possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry it through this time. From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I believe that if you want more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
Dear Friends at FFLife, It's been awhile since I've had time or inclination to check in, but I thought it might be useful to relate my experiences applying for the current superradiance course in progress here. I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. I am satisfied that my case was given as fair and favorable a review as possible under the circumstances, and with the exception of one or two moderately bumpy exchanges, I can assure you that my interactions with the course office were cordial and respectful on both sides. The point I am making here is: Yes, things are a bit different. I had not intended to apply for this course, inasmuch as I didn't see much chance that I would be accepted. However, the daily barrage of encouragement from my many friends who were absolutely convinced that I WOULD be accepted took its toll; I figured that in the worst case scenario, I would be able to show them that I was right and they were wrong. And we all know how sweet it is to be right. During the process, I would have to admit, I was won over. Not so much by the process itself, but by the glowing reports I have been hearing from countless friends who have been participating. I offer a few observations and conclusions: Something special is definitely going on here. Not just the obviousWhat? A FREE COURSE from the movement?!?but also in the experiences people are having and in the interactions with Maharishi. Considering how the prospects for the Movemen's future were looking a year ago, it strikes me as nothing short of miraculous. Furthermore, this could be a one-of-a-kind. There will be crises in the future, to be sure, but whether this opportunity will be available is not a given. I don't know anyone who really expected Maharishi to be interacting so freely with course participants EVER again. Although I have not been participating in the group programs, I definitely feel the surge of wakefulness that has arrived with this course, and am feeling its benefits. I found the process of applying to be useful in terms of letting go of old garbagehard feelings, etc. I have no regrets about that. For the record, I do not feel that I compromised any of my own ethical principles in this process, nor did I grovel. Nor do I believe that by groveling I could have changed the ultimate result of my application. I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two-fisted assertions and queries. I am aware that many of you who are not participating in this course may be simply uninterested, and I am OK with that. However, if you are in the category (as I was for quite some time) of individuals whose reasons for not applying basically boil down to hard feelings, then I would encourage you to lighten up a bit and take a chance. I did, and have no regrets. Ciao, L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] CHopra: Democracy and the Untouchables
Published on Monday, February 6, 2006 by the Huffington Post Democracy and the Untouchables by Deepak Chopra A coca farmer has been elected president in Bolivia and a socialist doctor in Chile. Hamas has won majority power in Palestine and a hard-line anti-Zionist leads Iran. These are all democratic outcomes, and in the foreseeable future we can expect more of the same. From the American perspective, it looks like the worst example of getting what you wish for. We stand for democracy, and now we have to hold our ground when democracy doesn't turn out remotely as we would want it to. Observers point out that the last five elections in the Middle East have brought in Islamic fundamentalists or close to it, while almost every election in South America has brought in socialists with an animus against the U.S., or close to it. As the world's leading democracy, it's ironic that we have been so afraid of it elsewhere, supporting reactionary royal families and dictatorships in country after country, although capriciously our support of a Noriega, Saddam Hussein, Duvalier, Aristide, Assad, Musharaf, etc. can suddenly sour. We should welcome democracy for the same reason that India learned to accept the rise of the untouchables to power. Historically, it was unthinkable that the most despised and dispossessed people in the country should share in its rule. But no horrors have come to pass, and India's democracy has been strengthened. The factions rising to power in South America and the Middle East are similarly dispossessed and despised. Much as we dislike the religious Shiites who are about to rule Iraq, weren't they the same rebels who tried to rise against Saddam in 1991 and were massacred by the thousands when the U.S failed to help them? Poor, oppressed, ignorant, and rejected people don't behave well; they are often angry and irrational. Whatever anyone may think of them, the dispossessed will only change if they are given a share of power. In Palestine the ruling Fatah party squandered and outright stole billions of dollars in foreign aid, and the leading politicians there have amassed fortunes in Swiss bank accounts while their people starve. The same is true of our favored pols in Iraq. They are prepared to steal billions more as the oil wealth of the country gets divided among the ultra-privileged. In South America a peon class, often made up of indigenous Indians, exists in hopeless degradation while the richest live like colonialists from two centuries ago. These intolerable injustices aren't ours to fix. Each country deserves self-determination. Billions spent to prop up the Shah of Iran did nothing to prevent the rise of democracy there, and it won't anywhere else, not in the long run. America's choice is either to guide this great historical upheaval or be charged with trying to suppress the very people who might have sailed to the New World when we were struggling to be free. Deepak Chopra came to the U.S. in 1970 from his native India to practice medicine, a career that evolved into the field of mind-body medicine. His breakthrough book, Quantum Healing, brought him public recognition in 1989. Since then he has written more than 42 books and travels worldwide as a spiritual speaker who fuses Western science with Eastern wisdom. He lives in La Jolla with his wife, Rita, and has two grown children and two grandchildren. Dr. Chopra heads the Chopra Center in Carlsbad, California, which specializes in many alternative treatment modalities including Ayurveda. © 2006 The Huffington Post ### Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Unstressing?
Sent recently by a Japanese friend: Report: Yoga Stir Tempers in Norway Prison - Wednesday, August 3, 2005 (08-03) 13:07 PDT OSLO, Norway (AP) -- A Norwegian prison has stopped giving yoga sessions to inmates after finding that some of the prisoners became more aggressive and agitated, a newspaper reported Wednesday. The yoga classes were introduced on at trial basis earlier this year at Ringerike prison, which holds some of Norway's most dangerous criminals. Prison officials had hoped meditation and breathing exercises would help inmates contain their anger, but it appeared to have the opposite effect. Some inmates became more agitated and aggressive, while others developed sleeping problems as a result of the yoga sessions, prison warden Sigbjoern Hagen told newspaper Ringerikes Blad. Hagen said that deep breathing exercises could make the inmates more dangerous, by unblocking their psychological barriers. URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/08/03/international/ i081302D42.DTL ©2006 Associated Press Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Denmark Wooow !! ( from the black list to heaven)
Hi Marek, I've been away for a bit and not following the action here. Nice post. Certainly gives a new take on Nisargadatta. Where did you learn these things about his guru, his practice, his teachings? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Marek Reavis wrote: As Nisargadatta says, it's your earnestness that is key. Did Nisargadatta ever teach the methods he learned from his Nath guru (that got him enlightened) to his students? Apparently Nisargadatta's method of the abidance in the I Am *was* what his guru taught. It was what he termed the bird's way to enlightenment, because the mind alights upon the fruit of realization directly, as opposed to the way he (he being Siddharameshwar, Nisargadatta's guru) became realized which he termed the ant's way by which one travels progressively, bit-by-bit, to the goal. However, Nisargadatta did impart a Nath mantra for those who asked for it, and from what I've read it was somewhat long and he only spoke it out to the devotee once so some folks were left somewhat nonplussed when they didn't quite get the whole thing down in one take. Besides daily guru puja Nisargadatta conducted five bhajans each day because his guru had told him to do so and never released him from that instruction before he died. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] New York Times: Playboy Makes Move in India
Playboy Makes Move in India, but Without the Centerfold By ANAND GIRIDHARADAS Published: January 2, 2006 MUMBAI, India - In a little-noticed milestone for the world of sex-related entertainment, Playboy said last month that it would seek to do in India what it had never done before: publish a magazine with its usual fare, except for its name and its nudes. This is quite a departure for us, Christie Hefner, the chief executive of Playboy Enterprises, told reporters in December. One reason for the plan, still in its initial stages, is the usual emerging-market strategy: when profits flatten in the West, companies pivot to India and China. Whereas Playboy's United States magazine sales shrank by 1 percent in 2004, its foreign revenue grew by 13 percent from 20 overseas editions published in countries from Brazil to Serbia. Foreign magazines' interest in India is understandable. As media growth flattens in the West, India's is booming. It has nearly 200 million magazine readers and is the second- largest newspaper market in the world, behind China, with 79 million copies sold daily. The print advertising market is $1.5 billion a year and growing. But there is another story behind Playboy's discovery of India. The magazine once saw itself as America's gateway to a sexual revolution. Now, with that revolution won and its societal impact fading, Playboy has a chance to renew itself as a magazine of high living in a country that celebrated sex in antiquity, then grew prudish, and is now loosening up again. Ms. Hefner has said that an Indian version of the magazine would be an extension of Playboy that would be focused around the lifestyle, pop culture, celebrity, fashion, sports and interview elements of Playboy. But the magazine would not be classic Playboy, she warned. It would not have nudity, she said, and I don't think it would be called Playboy. Some see India in the 2000's as similar to America in the 1950's: on the cusp of a sexual revolution, with stirrings of changes in private that have yet to gain public acceptability. In an attitudinal sea change, one-quarter of urban, unmarried women have sex, one-third read erotic literature and half go on dates, according to a survey by ACNielsen and India Today magazine. Bollywood, a mirror of the Indian spirit, now does what it refused to do five years ago: show a kiss on-screen. India is not only on the brink of a sexual revolution, it is also overflowing with ambition, as a small but growing class of young, urban, world-traveling men with disposable income find their way to a new upper class. The democratization of affluence is creating would-be male connoisseurs, keen for tutelage in ways of the high life. Upwardly mobile. Reasonably affluent. He would be a sort of midlevel executive upwards, a man who probably already drives a car, said N. Radhakrishnan, editor of Man's World, an Indian publication that would be a competitor to a watered-down Playboy. The December issue of Man's World is a window into the demographic: light on the lascivious, heavy on wisdom for the arriviste, like the latest iPod accessory and an admonition that Champagne be chilled but never iced. A few photos of scantily clad beauties appear in the back, almost as an afterthought. India has yet to have its own 1960's, in which sexual change accompanied broader upheaval. In the city of Madras, the police recently shut down a nightspot after local news media published photographs of clubgoers kissing. Then came a judgment by Mumbai's highest court that films not rated U, for universal, could not be shown on television; among the disqualified films are the Harry Potter movies. More generally, Indian conservatives, including conservative Hindu political leaders, say the country should resist Western sexualization. Indian law prohibits the sale or possession of material that is lascivious or appeals to the prurient interest and that is without redeeming artistic, literary or religious merit. Soft- core pornographic magazines are available in India, but are taboo. They lurk behind other publications at newsstands, available only by whispered request. They also attract few lucrative advertisers. There would only be a few brands that would look at these magazines, said Paulomi Dhawan, who runs advertising for Raymond, a leading Indian apparel maker. We would probably be more in the business or news magazines or the male-oriented serious magazines. There is another problem: if you are 26, living with prying parents, where do you hide your stash? In urban India, the concept of single men living alone is quite new, Mr. Radhakrishnan said. Here, most men, until they're married, live at home. Once you're married, your wife wonders what you're reading. As Playboy wrestles with how to peddle its content here, some in India are concerned about the magazine's plans. They are going to spoil our culture, said Venkatesh
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: major snip Many decades of conditioning have to be overcome in order to see this. It is a painful process. Not everyone wants to do it. No problem. Life is short, but time will sort this question out for future historians. L B S We'll just have to agree to disagree then. The agument that you put forward sounds like a variation of the It's too subtle for you to see argument that the TMO uses all the time. I have a hard time digesting that one anymore. Each polarity inspires and invigorates it's opposite and can't survive with out it. A new balance will come out of the extremes of left and right, or maybe we'll transcend. ;) The blogosphere and talk radio are now readjusting the mainstream media and the public will be better informed because of it. JohnY I don't mind disagreeing on this issue, nor do I assume I have the Ultimate Truth about it. However, I don't think the argument I am advancing is the too subtle for you to see argument. First of all, I know from your posts that that you are intelligent, thoughtful, and well-educated. You are not lacking for subtlety. The real issue is not the subtlety of the conditioning but its pervasiveness. Although subtle forms of social conditioning are found in this society, most forms are actually rather crude and heavy-handed. It's just that we have become used to them. Seeing this does require insight, however, it's the insight that comes from sustained study and research, in my opinion. I have studied the media for more than 40 years, during which time I have also been an observer-participant and seen first-hand some of the discrepencies between what happens and what gets reported. Furthermore, I have conducted due diligence regarding the rebuttals to the radical framework I have been exploring, and I have generally found them to be reflexive and superficial in the general public and zealous partisanry in the power structure. Nevertheless, it took a LONG TIME for me to accept the conclusions which suggested themselves. I still debate within myself on an almost daily basis as to where the boundary lies between the reality I was socialized into and the reality I discovered later. That someone could conscientiously disagree with me does not surprise or upset. What I am expressing is, after all, a point of view; I express mine, you express yours. It is the nature of my point of view, however, to feel at this time that it is more in the nature of a responsibility to speak up than an option. Ciao, L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Observing Guru Dev's Birthday
I occasionally reflect on the fact that Fairfield, as a New World Kumbh Mela, would not exist were it not for Maharishiand, by extension, Guru Dev. While I concur that reverential regard for either of the two is not and should not be a requirement for participation in this forum, today I feel inclined to make a few personal remarks. Maharishi remains controversial; in the world at large, in the Movement, and on this list, one finds a wide range of clinical evaluations and gut level emotional responses. When I traveled in India, I also found a wide range of attitudes where Maharishi was concerned, but only the highest respect for Brahmananda Saraswati. Brahmanandaji has never disappointed me. Even though his teachings on the status of women were somewhat disappointing in the context of our perspective, they reflected his tradition more than anything else. Personally, I believe his tradition was somewhat corrupted in that area. (By the way, I offer these remarks not as an apologist for Brahmanandaji, but to forestall the necessity of having to be reminded of it.) Brahmanadaji walked his talk. Whatever criticisms people have about Maharishi, without him it is unlikely that many of us would ever have heard about Brahmanandaji. In the big picture, without knowing what kinds of tools and resources were available to Guru Dev, I'm happy that Maharishi undertook his mission, whatever his motives may have been. Despite elements of the Movement that in the past I have found unappealing, and which I continue to find unappealing, I continue to sense Guru Dev's presence there also. Whatever our complaints about our own lives or about the Movement, I think we can feel some gratitude in knowing that a life like that of Guru Dev has touched our own existence, however distantly. Jai Guru Dev, L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: huge snip So, on the one hand, in answer to our deepest collective desire, we have created a regional, national and global reality that changes nearly instantly, reflecting our momentary fulfillments. On the other hand, there is an escalating need for us to not get caught in the vortex. We were given mantras years ago in order to clarify and realize our desires. We were given sutras to stir up and dissolve the mud. Now the challenge is, given our mantras and sutras, how can we build a perfectly unshakeable edifice for ourselves? Nice summary and conclusions. L B S Thanks- The really interesting thing I see too are the kids I know these days. Very grounded and centered for the most part, as if someone saw this coming and prepared for it... I don't get around much these days, but there are a lot like that in Fairfield. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Valid observations, but there are a number of emerging factors that provide a counter force, or a new direction. With respect to the media myth, I think you have it exactly backwards. USA as the bastion of freedom and democracy is the media myth. One has only to see who owns the media to understand how this could be the case. Blogs. Podcasting and Internet radio -- huge diversity of independent news sources -- and cheap production giving the pen to the masses. Diversity of cable news and print media sources, including from overseaas. Indie films. Garage recording studios with internet distribution. Affordable Hi-Def video-cams allowing professional video, along with internet distribution. WiFi everywhere. Outside the USA, the Evil Empire view is currently almost universal. It has particularly floated to the surface with the current administration, coincidentally. And in 2008 Biden, Clinton, McCain or Guillardi copuld be president which will at least modify those views. The history of military adventurism and economic exploitation, the subvesion of foreign governments, etc, is well established, but it NOT generally explored in the mainstream media. See above media comments. I am learning much more of the above from the above above. More blatant recent developments regarding fraudulent elections ultimately, technology will get it right, virtualy elimintng he crap of the past two elections. and the subversions of our civil liberties Seantors just stood down the Patriot Act extension. are merely the more recent and obvious indicators of corporate fascism. Read Tom Friedman's The World is Fat. I mean Flat. Corporate power is becoming increadibly diffused, distributed around the globe. Europeans, having had more experience with these things, tend to see us as naive barbarians. And South Africans hate the Dutch Most Americans, on the other hand, tend to be in denial about it. See above media comments. It is a powerful force to change awareness. Those in the early stages of owning it tend to be angry and/or frightened. And yet all of the above developments are reason for optimism and joy. As usual, you have raised many excellent points, particularly about the web, blogs, etc. Pressing responsibilities require brevity in reply, but: Despite information alternatives to the Mainstream Media, it's good to remember that as many as 2/3 of Americans may still believe, as they did when the war began, that Saddam was involved in the 9/11 event. I'm sure you have examples of your own. Public perception, moreover, is still dominated by the MM, not the alternatives. Recent victories for the Good Guys have been in the skirmish category. It's too early to say the tide has turned, and we don't know what the future will bring. Like any good Taoist, I know that history is cyclic, etc, and the darkest hour is just before the dawn. Like any realistic observe of current events, however, I don't really know if this is the darkest hour. Maybe it's only midnight. Thanks again for your points. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Singularity: Any reviews?
NHNE News List Current Members: 1385 Subscribe/unsubscribe/archive info at the bottom of this message. THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR RANKS IN TOP-SELLING SCIENCE AND TECH BOOKS IN 2005 KurzweilAI.net December 18, 2005 http://www.kurzweilai.net/news/frame.html?main=/news/news_single.html?id%3D5 123 After an extended run as #1 on the Amazon.com science, technology, and philosophy lists since its publication, Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity Is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology ends 2005 as the fourth best-selling science book in 2005, even though published late in the year (September 26). The book was also selected by the Amazon editors as #6 on their Best Books of 2005: Science list. The book is now in its fourth printing after 3 months. Extensive reviews, articles and interviews with the author are available on singularity.com: http://singularity.com/press.html RELATED NHNE NEWS LIST ARTICLES: MORE ON KURZWEIL THE SINGULARITY (10/14/2005): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/10138 RAY KURZWEIL JOINS LIFEBOAT FOUNDATION (10/13/2005): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/10135 BOOK REVIEW: 'THE SINGULARITY IS NEAR' (10/4/2005): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/10077 KURZWEIL: IMMORTALITY, IF WE PROGRAM THE BODY LIKE A COMPUTER (7/12/2005): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/9556 UPDATE: RAY KURZWEIL'S LIVE FOREVER PROGRAM (2/14/2005): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/8856 RAY KURZWEIL: HOW OLD CAN HE GO? (12/27/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/8606 KURZWEIL'S QUEST FOR ETERNAL YOUTH SETS GROUP ABUZZ (10/11/2004): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/8041 RAY KURZWEIL'S PLAN TO NEVER DIE (11/18/2002): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/message/3960 --- SINGULARITY-RELATED ARTICLES: To locate more articles and information on The Singularity, you can search NHNE'S News List Database: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhnenews/messages/ NHNE News List: To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
Thanks for the input, Bobananda. Although I don't agree with the specifics of yugas, etc, I accept the principle that these are dark times. However, I don't have a clue what can be expectedor not. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [...] Now it is difficult to find the faintest shred of evidence that the world is being saved. So the Dream is Over, and the disappointment for many is huge and painful. I must be truely insane. I find the New and Improved TMO to be a wonderous thing and genuinely have more expectations for it than for the TMO of the Merv days. I would be interested to know your criteria for evaluating your position. Specifically: How will you know if you are correct in your belief in the Movement's immanent success? How will you know if you are mistaken? Do you have a time line in mind by which a judgement could be made? L B S ** The movement (towards expansion of happiness, the purpose of creation) is always successful, even if, as MMY said earler year, it may take hundreds of centuries -- we're 51 centuries into the Kaliyuga, the dismal 10% of the eternal Yuga cycle, so at most it will be another 4269 centuries until life on earth is not characterized by chaos, a mere drop in the bucket of cosmic (or even geologic) time: At one hour and 30 minutes into the 23Mar2005 press conference at mou.org, Maharishi says that it may take centuries for the pundits to restore Vedic civilization in India: http://streaming.mou.org/MOU/Mar/wnews_23mar2005prt1_128 (the following week MMY said it may be hundreds of centuries. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Aunt Jemima
From The African-American Registry November 17 On this date we celebrate the birth of Nancy Green in 1834. She was a Black storyteller and one of the first (Black) corporate models in the United States. The world knew her as Aunt Jemima but her given name was Nancy Green. The famous Aunt Jemima recipe was not her recipe but she became the advertising world's first living trademark. Miss Green was born a slave in Montgomery County, Kentucky. Chris Rutt, a newspaperman, and Charles Underwood bought the Pearl Milling Company and had the original idea of developing and packaging a ready-mixed, self-rising pancake flour. To survive in a highly competitive business, the men needed an image for their product. In 1889, Rutt attended a vaudeville show where he heard a catchy tune called Aunt Jemima sung by a blackface performer who was wearing an apron and bandanna headband. He decided to call their pancake flour Aunt Jemima. Later, Rutt and Underwood were so short of capital funds that they were broke. In 1890, they sold the formula to the R. T. Davis Milling Company. Mr. Davis began looking for a Negro woman to employ as a living trademark for his product, and he found Nancy Green in Chicago. She was 56 years old. The Aunt Jemima Pancake Mix was introduced in St. Joseph, Missouri. In 1893, the Davis Milling Company aggressively began an all-out promotion of Aunt Jemima at the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago. Green, as Aunt Jemima demonstrated the pancake mix and served thousands of pancakes. Green was a hit, friendly, a good storyteller, and a good cook. Her warm and appealing personality made her the ideal Aunt Jemima a living trademark. Her exhibition booth drew so many people that special policemen were assigned to keep the crowds moving. The Davis Milling Company received over 50,000 orders, and Fair officials awarded Nancy Green a medal and certificate for her showmanship. She was proclaimed Pancake Queen. She was signed to a lifetime contract and traveled on promotional tours all over the country. Flour sales were up all year and pancakes were no longer considered exclusively for breakfast. Nancy Green maintained this job until a car crash in Chicago killed her, on September 23, 1923. The Davis Company also ran into money problems, and the Quaker Oats Company purchased the Aunt Jemima Mills in 1925. Reference: Black Women in America An Historical Encyclopedia Volumes 1 and 2, edited by Darlene Clark Hine Copyright 1993, Carlson Publishing Inc., Brooklyn, New York ISBN 0-926019-61-9 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ultrarishi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [...] Now it is difficult to find the faintest shred of evidence that the world is being saved. So the Dream is Over, and the disappointment for many is huge and painful. I must be truely insane. I find the New and Improved TMO to be a wonderous thing and genuinely have more expectations for it than for the TMO of the Merv days. I don't know. I pretty much prefer the Merv days. Today, MMY and the TMO seem more like Jimmy Swaggart and Pat Robertson and Bechtel and FoxNews. I was following LB until he equated disillusionment with the TMO with disillusionment with 'evil' USA. I think 'evil' USA is actually another media myth. JohnY Needless to say, I do not expect or require people to agree with everything I post. With respect to the media myth, I think you have it exactly backwards. USA as the bastion of freedom and democracy is the media myth. One has only to see who owns the media to understand how this could be the case. Outside the USA, the Evil Empire view is currently almost universal. It has particularly floated to the surface with the current administration, coincidentally. The history of military adventurism and economic exploitation, the subvesion of foreign governments, etc, is well established, but it NOT generally explored in the mainstream media. More blatant recent developments regarding fraudulent elections and the subversions of our civil liberties are merely the more recent and obvious indicators of corporate fascism. Europeans, having had more experience with these things, tend to see us as naive barbarians. Most Americans, on the other hand, tend to be in denial about it. Those in the early stages of owning it tend to be angry and/or frightened. L B S Nothing complicated, I just think that on the whole the US has been more a positive than a negative force in world affairs and the 'evil' America thing is perpetuated by a press with an agenda of it's own. Those 'experienced' Europeans have had their collective bacon pulled from the fire by US barbarians quite a few times. And like Maharishi are rather ungrateful about it too, when it suits their purposes. As far as the TMO is concerned we're only a little evil but our cash is quite good. JohnY Again, I must politely disagree. The press rarely touches upon the inner dynamics of history or current events, and has in fact been skillfully manipulated to preserve the myth of Noble America. It takes time to put together a more accurate history and reading of current events, and one must draw on many sources that mainstream Americans almost never consult. What has happened within the past few years is just that the current administration has exacerbated the deeply-rooted fascist trends within this country and made it harder to deny them. Many decades of conditioning have to be overcome in order to see this. It is a painful process. Not everyone wants to do it. No problem. Life is short, but time will sort this question out for future historians. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [...] Now it is difficult to find the faintest shred of evidence that the world is being saved. So the Dream is Over, and the disappointment for many is huge and painful. I must be truely insane. I find the New and Improved TMO to be a wonderous thing and genuinely have more expectations for it than for the TMO of the Merv days. I would be interested to know your criteria for evaluating your position. Specifically: How will you know if you are correct in your belief in the Movement's immanent success? How will you know if you are mistaken? Do you have a time line in mind by which a judgement could be made? L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: huge snip So, on the one hand, in answer to our deepest collective desire, we have created a regional, national and global reality that changes nearly instantly, reflecting our momentary fulfillments. On the other hand, there is an escalating need for us to not get caught in the vortex. We were given mantras years ago in order to clarify and realize our desires. We were given sutras to stir up and dissolve the mud. Now the challenge is, given our mantras and sutras, how can we build a perfectly unshakeable edifice for ourselves? Nice summary and conclusions. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thoughts on the You're angry / No, I'm not thang
I have reached a similar conclusion myself. This is how I have conceptualized it: Most of us Movement lifers (NOT to be confused with Fairfield Lifers, although there is significant overlap between sets; lifer is used here as it's used elsewhere, in cases where one joins upor is committedfor life, ie the remainder of one's days)most Movement lifers who are also Americans are facing not just one, but two huge disappointments. Of those who held out highest hopes for the Movement, I am guessing most (except True Believers) are disappointed. For those who were idealistic and committed, joining the Movement meant that one had become one of the elect few who were going to save the world. Literally. I know it sounds silly now, but that is what many of us believed. Now it is difficult to find the faintest shred of evidence that the world is being saved. So the Dream is Over, and the disappointment for many is huge and painful. [Yes, I know that some of you who read this were too smart to be taken in and are saying What disappointment?, but in this instance I am addressing the fate of those who truly believed. And we were many.] At the same time, many are discovering that their deeply ingrained concepts about America (US of A) were likewise illusionary. What we had thought to be the land of the free and the home of the brave has turned out to be the Evil Empire. Not only is the world not being saved, but we are the ones who are fucking it up. Either one of these disappointments by itself could prove quite painful, but both at once is, for some people, simply to painful to bear. Not only that, but our fundamental paradigms have been so brutally shaken that it's difficult to see where the crumbling of reality will end. Hence the fear. Hence the denial. And the anger. So I agree with your observation. The general state of mental health in this country is not very good, nor among TM people, either. The stress levels are very high. People are literally out of control, as witness much of what happens in this very forum. I would add one point. There is no logical answer to this dilemma. Awakening, which is NOT a logical answer, but a change of awareness, does nothing to the dilemma as such, but at least releases the awakened from the suffering. Aside from thatin the world as I see it now, there is only one commodity which is really useful: kindness. Unfortunately it is seldom in evidence in this forum, although it does manifest from time to time. A few weeks ago, Tom Pall genuinely apologized for one of his posts to Dr Pete, spontaneously and almost immediately after sending it. The significance of that event eventually was buried under the subsequent avalanches of neurotic posts which seem to charactize this list lately. I am not against this, by the way, although my interest in participating is somewhat limited. I have already adopted the skimming approach that others have recommended, and yes, it does make it easier to catch up. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue of one or more persons (sometimes the majority of active posters) perceiving one partic- ular poster as consistently angry, and abusive because of that anger, suddenly clicked for me this afternoon. I had known that it reminded me of something, but I had not been able to figure out *what* it reminded me of. Bingo! Got it. It reminded me of visiting America recently, my first trip back in over two and a half years. Unless you've lived *outside* the country for a while, and are just re-entering it, you really aren't going to get (or believe) what I'm saying, and in fact you'll get angry about it, and say to yourself, He's full of shit. I know this going in, because that's the very phenomenon I'm talking about. I would say that MOST (and by MOST I mean 80-90% of the people I interacted with during my week in America were ANGRY. The *first* thing that hits you, if you've been away for a while is the level of F E A R in the air. Almost everyone is afraid, all the time. And if you mention this perception to them, they'll tell you they're not. And THEN they'll get angry at you for having noticed that they're afraid. And THEN they'll deny that they're angry. It's just the weirdest thing. Why I think it relates to issues here on FFL is that a number of the posters whom a lot of people agree are out-of-control angry DENY that they're angry. Well, I don't think that they KNOW consciously that they're angry. Anger is their *baseline* state, the thing they settle back *down* to and relax into when their out-of-control moments settle down. Anger is so much a part of their lives, so much the background soundtrack of those lives, that they think it's normal. So they get even angrier when some- one points out that they're angry, because they don't want to admit that they're angry all
[FairfieldLife] Re: Headphones
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sennheiser HD 215's. Love 'em. Wife wants some Bose noise cancelling HP's (perhaps to drown me out)--anyone try them? On Dec 16, 2005, at 3:37 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Can any of you music buffs recommend headphones (not earplugs) in the $100-$150 range? I just Googled: noise cancelling headphones rating and got too much infor to post. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Your mind is never going to get MMY. Never, ever.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: enlightenment does not adhere to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period. I've been given to understand that enlightenment changes quite a bit from one spiritual tradition to another. I'm told, for instance, that Buddhists disagree with Hindus on key points, and when their adherents attain end states they call awakening or enlightenment, the attainees describe their experiences differently from one another but consistent with their traditions. Native Americans have no such states in their traditions, suggesting enlightenment is not something that all traditions recognize. View determines fruit, as Vaj quoted a master as saying. Or as Dana Sawyer says, precept determines percept. I'm not sure if I'm disagreeeing with you here, Jim. I don't know enough about either side of the discussion. I'm simply expressing some cognitive dissonance with the statement that enlightenment does not adhere to any tradition. Gee, Patrick, I 'm crushed to see how quickly you've forgotten process and product are one. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice. It Works
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sad story. Laura worked with me in the Western Regional Office in L.A. for a while. Sweet lady. May she have a speedy and pleasant trip through the Bardo, and end up in a dimension that is closed to pissants like the ones who drove her out of Austin. Amen and Bon Voyage. We love you Laura. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, was Laura Calvert at MIU? The name is so familiar, but I can't a face to the name. Perhaps I can answer your question. Laura Calvert was an Okie who migrated to Austin, TX because she was a groupie and because she had friends with money (one of them was Tom) who helped her out. She was a well known figure at MIU for years. She was on staff and then worked for one of the Dare to Rip off the Rabble and Wind up in Jail companies in FF (sidhas are so superior to the rabble as Dr. Pete will attest). When the Dare to Rip off the Rabble company prospered, Laura used to spend her money on plane tickets to Austin. Laura ruined her credit by reopening and supporting the Austin TM Center after Dare went to prison and the company folded, in direct opposition to the people of Radiance, TX, who wanted her gunned down or at least run out of town. Texans are so genteel, as GW Bush the Connecticut native will attest. She was, after all, so declasse. Imagine. An Okie teaching TM within blocks of the Univerity of Teasippers. She didn't even have a law degree like the people who ran the original TM center on Guadalupe and formed and populated Radiance with their pocket change, my Gawd! Purusha came, took over the Austin TM Center then closed it down. Laura received sponsorship to go to many courses and eventually decided to accept sponsorship for the rest of her life on Mother Divine. Actually most likely the sponsorship was handmaidenship. It was and maybe still is the practice to employ servants and offer them sponsorhip on MD in exchange for their cooking and cleaning and sucking up to those with the superiority only money can buy. Laura apparantly got ill and went home to Oklahoma to die. She is survived by her parents and her smoking, beer swilling good ole' boy brothers. Laura was so proud of herself years ago she emailed Tom about how she was following the Blood Type Diet and had not eaten a single thing with transfatty acids in it in years. She's also survived by Tom, with whom she had a falling out because one evening she called Tom on his 700 number (Tom gave Laura a pin which reversed the long distance charges) and took great umbradge with Tom because he had obviously been drinking. Reminds one of Edith Bunker's brother who died of a heart attack while jogging back from the heathfood store. When Laura ran the Austin TM Center she made Mother Tereass look like a greedy snob. Another reason the populace of Radiance,TX, founded and populated by greedy snobs, used legal action to take over the Austin TM Center and toss Laura out of it and out of town. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice. It Works
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you referring to Tom Pall? Yes. Tom was never by any stretch of the imagination rich. But he managed all his life to make a good income, spent most of his life single and often cared more about giving to others than keeping for himself. He grew up in a thrify household which didn't even believe in buying a house on credit until one had saved enough to buy one outright. He was, when all the ladies came back from Governor Training talked up as a good catch and is till considered to be one today. You'd probably have to be a woman to understand their way of thinking. I don't know about anyone else, but I find the concept of women thinking of a man as a good catch because of his income more offensive than any of the racist epithets attributed here to Tom. Why would you be offended by this? It's a simple fact of life, affirmed to be so by many intelligent women in private conversation and also by normal observations. A fairly smart guy with some expertise in this area told me once that men who want to be loved for themselves, and not for their incomes, basically want mother love from their spouses, and are not confident about their abilities to be a provider. I am not pointing a finger here, nor making an accusation. This is just what came up in repsonsive to your remarks above regarding what you found offensive. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice. It Works
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It has been said: money is the greatest aphrodisiac. According to Dr Kissinger, POWER is the greatest aphrodisiac. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/HcoraC/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagna By Choice. It Works
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip . Numerous studies have persuaded linguistic researchers that acquisition of a second language after the age of 15 means that one is unlikely to acquire mastery (especially in terms of pronunciation -- the brain has less flexibility after the age of 15), although there are certainly individual variations: http://tinyurl.com/a322s learning before the age of 7 yields perfect command * I have found it interesting that at MSAE Maharishi doesn't allow 2nd language acquisition at the younger age (he may make an exception for Sanskrit) because he claims that for the youngster to speak something other than the mother tongue creates some subtle kind of confusioneven though, as you note, it is the ideal time for language acquistion. Does anyone have more precise information on this? L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/HcoraC/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4060
Yeah, the whole exchange seemed a bit weird. Any idea when you'll be passing throught FF again? I'm guessing not until warm weather. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey LB, i get the same impression as you about this swami G is this the same one who runs the website kundalini support seems like swami g has an axe to grind or has some need to criticize every comment made by Bhagavan. Some swami, HUH? my response: Hey swami G- get a life or get some deeksha. Sounds like you are half baked BTW LB, since i saw you in ff this summer i have had much deeksha and went to Bhagavans place to take his 21 day process. it was and is fabulous. Finally having some of the experiences i have read and heard about for the past 30 years. till we meet again. steve Message: 25 Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:42:21 - From: L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Swami G comments on interview- Bhagwan Kalki I don't know anything about Swami Gwho he is, where he comes from, his disciples nothing. But he seems peeved. Also, he doesn't seem to understand that all language is metaphor. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but ALWAYS metaphor. If Swami G doesn't think it's legitimate to talk about a hole in the mind', then it's not hard to understand why he is so careless with terms like nonsense. L B S __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 1998 experience NOT believed to be Dark Night of the Soul
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this your story LB? It is. It was published in the Fairfield Weekly Reader several years ago. L B S --- L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Desolate in Delhi My stay in the Valley of the Saints was drawing toward its inevitable close. I accepted this without concern, even though I could not remember having been as happy anywhere as I had been here, beside the swiftly flowing waters of the world's most sacred river. I had been living a life of constant satsang among the saints, sadhus, and swamis, and working daily with the brahmacharis translating the 108 discourses of Brahmanandaji. However, I had also enjoyed the freedom of the lone traveler to explore and investigate, poking into obscure corners of a place that might have been better off if time had forgotten ita possibility that disappeared without a trace when the Beatles arrived in '68. No longer the pristine sanctuary of its legendary past, Rishikesh nevertheless remains a place where the real and the unreal can be compared like tomatoes at a supermarket. I had been generously treated to both. The Gangadharishwar Ashram, my home for nearly six weeks, is located on the west bank of the river, exactly across from Maharishi's ashram to the east. Like many of the ashrams in Rishikesh, it has a dual function: first, as a home for those in full time pursuit of Supreme Knowledge, and secondly as a retreat center for householders and others who can only come for weekends or summer courses. One such family from Delhi came to the ashram shortly before I leftfather, mother, daughter, two sons, aunt, and nephew. Late one afternoon a few days after they arrived, I watched as a trespassing monkey chased the little girl wildly around the inner courtyard , to the intense amusement of her father, uncle, brothers, and some of the workers at the ashram. I suspect he was in love. The next morning I was sitting in the sun beside the river when the young lady sat down beside me. Her name was Kanika. In the course of our conversation, which covered a surprising amount of ground in a fairly short time, she told me that she really liked studying Sanskrit because it was so easy. I flinched, but only on that quiet level, so she didn't notice. I asked her how she liked mathematics. Just fine, she told me, math was also easy. I asked her if anything in school was difficult for her. She paused a moment and said, no, everything was easy. I was starting to feel awed by her radiant intelligence, almost forgetting that I was talking with a ten-year-old. Then I asked her what she liked best in school, and she told me that reading stories was her favorite activity. Her favorite stories? Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella. We met by the river again the following morning. Kanika sang me a hymn from the Christian school she attended in Delhi, and I sang Long Black Veil, the only song I could remember from beginning to end. A few days later my little friend and her family left the ashram. Her father, Mukesh, asked where I would be staying in Delhi and when I would arrive, and then they were gone. My own departure came shortly thereafter. The most difficult part was saying goodbye to Swamini Maneeshananda, who had been my dearest friend and teacher during my stay at the ashram. At 75, Mata Ji had been at Gangadharishwar for 27 years. As I sat in the back seat of the taxi , she reached through the window and gently touched my facea rare blessing from a Sannyasi, and especially poignant when given by this one. She had recently told me that she felt she had fulfilled life's purpose, and now she was only waiting for the body to drop. I certainly hoped she wasn't in any kind of hurry, and as the taxi wound its way through the village streets of Purani Jhadi, I finally realized how reluctant I was to leave. The Maha Kumbh Mela was still in progress at Haridwar, and the train station was packed with sadhus and pilgrims. I took the Shatabdi Express to Delhi, arriving late on Wednesday afternoon. Then I checked in at the Namaskar hotel, just off the Main Bazaar in the Pahar Ganj, a low rent commercial district west of the main railway station. Thursday morning I went back to the railway station to buy my ticket for the two-day trip to Bangalore. On the way back to the Namaskar I bumped into Mukesh, who had looked me up as promised. The next day he came back to accompany me on various errands I had to run in Delhi before leaving. We took an autorickshaw through Connaught Place and south along Janpath, past the India Gate and deep into the southeast part of New Delhi, where I had located a photo lab
[FairfieldLife] Re: 1998 experience NOT believed to be Dark Night of the Soul
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this your story LB? It is. It was published in the Fairfield Weekly Reader several years ago. *Very* nicely written. If you had a bunch more like this, you'd have a book. Thanks. The other stories are in note form only at this time. That book will have to wait for a while. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Transference of Consciousness at the Time of Death
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip There's always trepanning. :-0 Do you have a favorite link? ) :-0 L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gotcha, etc
Frankly, I'm finding the gratuitous insults more disgusting than the gotcha posts. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Gotcha, etc
Ha ha you flaming nobody, I just did it to expose you. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You lilied-livered, transcendental apologist! I knew you were going to say that! Ha! --- L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, I'm finding the gratuitous insults more disgusting than the gotcha posts. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Latest from Farrokh: who wrote it?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tmforlife108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Farouk Hi, I'm a governor from the UK and via a roundabout route I got your open letter to Michael Dilbeck. I thought I'd send you a quote from another email which I got from Michael Moore. begins Friends, I just thought we should all pause for a moment today to remember the simple act of courage, defiance and dignity committed by Rosa Parks when she refused to move to the back of the bus because the law said she had the wrong skin color. snip It is not easy to stand up for what is right, especially when everyone else is afraid to leave the comfortable path of conformity. ... ends Highly relevant in the case of the TM movement don't you think? My own approach is somewhat different. I applaud those who take a stand against the crap and the nonsense we all have to endure within the movement but I have chosen to take a stand against a different type of crap and the nonsense. snip . We have been waiting for an awakening in public consciousness, but the public has always been willing to take to this knowledge when properly presented. The awakening will be our realisation that all obstructions are self-created and can be removed in an instant. This will be the true phase transition. Jai Guru Dev John Small Farrokh Ruffina Anklesaria The Enlightened Sentencing Project (TESP) Administrative Office 202 Tiffin Ave Ferguson, MO 63135 Visit our website at www.tesp.org Tel: 314 521 4390 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Man revealed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/2/05 10:03 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were these women highly educated and established in professional society at the time they were allegedly victimized by Maharishi? Well educated relative to their age at the time. Or is this something they achieved after that? Yes. So their alleged victimization didn't seem to get in the way of their having successful careers, at any rate. And most victims of incest, by the way, are young girls, not adult women. Your mastery of context could be slipping. Cult members generally are in a relationship in which the leader or guru is in the parental role, and usually a perverted parental role at that. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Man revealed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/2/05 10:03 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were these women highly educated and established in professional society at the time they were allegedly victimized by Maharishi? Well educated relative to their age at the time. Or is this something they achieved after that? Yes. So their alleged victimization didn't seem to get in the way of their having successful careers, at any rate. And most victims of incest, by the way, are young girls, not adult women. Your mastery of context could be slipping. Cult members generally are in a relationship in which the leader or guru is in the parental role, and usually a perverted parental role at that. I'm not sure what you think this has to do with what I've been saying, L.B., or why you think my mastery of context could be slipping. Care to elaborate? As I've already indicated, I have no problem with the concept of the leader/guru taking a parental role. That was never what I objected to. Perhaps you should do a little checking of the context yourself. Here is the context: And most victims of incest, by the way, are young girls, not adult women. True enough, except that the incest we have been discussing in this thread is the variety known as spiritual incest (a term which you have argued against previously in this thread, if I recall correctly). If I may be permitted a small digression: the term spiritual incest cannot be correctly understood by exactly parsing its constituents. It has a special meaning which applies most clearly in the cult context. You have argued against its application here based on your parsing, including the argument quoted above regarding the ages of the victims. Spiritual incest is a special kind of sexual abuse that takes place in institutional and/or cult settings (Catholic Church, TMO). It is similar to the kind of abuse that takes place in, for example, university settings where faculty take sexual advantage of students, or for that matter, prison settings where guards take advantage of inmates. The spiritual aspect of the term signifies the religious or cult setting. All such abuses have in common an asymetric power relationship between the perpetrator and the victim. This is why they are all considered unethical/immoral, and why laws exist to protect those in the weaker position. In the religious/spiritual/cult setting, the perpetrator often has more power over the victim than the traditional incest perpetrator. A guru, for example, is often believed to be: enlightened spiritually perfect divine (avatar, incarnation of God, etc) all powerful (master of sidhis, etc) in addition to which, he/she may be fulfilling a parental role that the victim may not even be consciously aware of. Another small digression: Many people have commented in this forum that they think MMY's alleged infractions amount to no big deal. However, for the reasons I have referred to above, such abuses are universally condemned in civil society. This is the context in which our discussion is relevant. Your point about the ages of the victims applies to ordinary incest, not the variety we are dealing with here. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Man revealed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/3/05 10:57 AM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, yes, following on to Sal's thought, tell us Rick (and all -- my self included) at what degrading level of education, profession and social standing does a woman become not credible -- compared to the ascending crown of credibility for educated, professional women? You make good points. I guess the broader question is, on what criteria of credibility can we all agree? I'm guessing the answer to that question will be None. ;-) L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Man revealed
Response below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/2/05 10:03 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were these women highly educated and established in professional society at the time they were allegedly victimized by Maharishi? Well educated relative to their age at the time. Or is this something they achieved after that? Yes. So their alleged victimization didn't seem to get in the way of their having successful careers, at any rate. And most victims of incest, by the way, are young girls, not adult women. Your mastery of context could be slipping. Cult members generally are in a relationship in which the leader or guru is in the parental role, and usually a perverted parental role at that. I'm not sure what you think this has to do with what I've been saying, L.B., or why you think my mastery of context could be slipping. Care to elaborate? As I've already indicated, I have no problem with the concept of the leader/guru taking a parental role. That was never what I objected to. Perhaps you should do a little checking of the context yourself. Here is the context: And most victims of incest, by the way, are young girls, not adult women. True enough, except that the incest we have been discussing in this thread is the variety known as spiritual incest (a term which you have argued against previously in this thread, if I recall correctly). Right. That most victims of incest are young children rather than adults is yet another reason why the term spiritual incest is inappropriate. If I may be permitted a small digression: the term spiritual incest cannot be correctly understood by exactly parsing its constituents. It has a special meaning which applies most clearly in the cult context. You have argued against its application here based on your parsing, including the argument quoted above regarding the ages of the victims. No, actually what I've been arguing is that borrowing the term incest for that phrase acts as a thought-stopper, invoking the reaction of horror and disgust people normally have to incest in a very different kind of situation to which that kind of reaction may be inappropriate. It's an example of using emotionally loaded language to bypass the critical thinking process. Rather than responding to what you go on to say, I'll just refer you to the quotes from my contributions to the alt.m.t discussion I posted earlier, which address your points directly. snip Another small digression: Many people have commented in this forum that they think MMY's alleged infractions amount to no big deal. However, for the reasons I have referred to above, such abuses are universally condemned in civil society. As well they should be. However, I'd suggest that the degree and intensity of the condemnation should probably *not* be universal; some instances of such behavior are distinctly worse than others, so it makes sense to consider them on a case-by-case basis. Which is another reason why I object to the spiritual incest phrase. It tends to evoke the same intensity of revulsion to *all* such instances, when it may not be at all appropriate for some of them. This is the context in which our discussion is relevant. Your point about the ages of the victims applies to ordinary incest, not the variety we are dealing with here. Yes, that *was* my point. The intensity of the reaction to incest is at least partly a function of the fact that the victims of incest are physically and psychologically so vulnerable. Not that victims of sexual abuse by spiritual teachers are not also vulnerable, but there are significant differences in the *nature* of their vulnerability, among other reasons because they're typically much older. Consider the difference in the reaction to a father having sex with his adult daughter, and a father having sex with his 12-year-old daughter. There are common elements, but there are also marked differences. The term spiritual incest fuzzes over those differences. I'd be pleased to continue this discussion with you if you're so inclined, but again I'd ask that you read my earlier post so you have a better idea of what my arguments are without my having to repeat myself to set you straight
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Man revealed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [...] If I may be permitted a small digression: the term spiritual incest cannot be correctly understood by exactly parsing its constituents. It has a special meaning which applies most clearly in the cult context. You have argued against its application here based on your parsing, including the argument quoted above regarding the ages of the victims. Spiritual incest is a special kind of sexual abuse that takes place in institutional and/or cult settings (Catholic Church, TMO). It is similar to the kind of abuse that takes place in, for example, university settings where faculty take sexual advantage of students, or for that matter, prison settings where guards take advantage of inmates. The spiritual aspect of the term signifies the religious or cult setting. So you think that in this context, at least, MMY's secretaries are vulnerable because they are cult followers? That would be a case-by-case thing. Some would be, some would not. All such abuses have in common an asymetric power relationship between the perpetrator and the victim. This is why they are all considered unethical/immoral, and why laws exist to protect those in the weaker position. So, not one of those exploited females has felt sufficiently safe to blow the whistle on MMY? Well-accepted research indicates that cult victims generally need about 20 years of sorting things out before they realized they were victimized and are willing to speak out. There have been public allegations about MMY from some of his alleged victimsk, so I don't understand your question. In the religious/spiritual/cult setting, the perpetrator often has more power over the victim than the traditional incest perpetrator. A guru, for example, is often believed to be: enlightened spiritually perfect divine (avatar, incarnation of God, etc) all powerful (master of sidhis, etc) in addition to which, he/she may be fulfilling a parental role that the victim may not even be consciously aware of. Another small digression: Many people have commented in this forum that they think MMY's alleged infractions amount to no big deal. However, for the reasons I have referred to above, such abuses are universally condemned in civil society. By definition, abuses are condemned in civil society. We still have not established that the incidents happened or if they did that they were abuse. For there to be abuse, MMY's secretaries would have to be in the social position that you describe above. Were they? In my experience (24 years on the insided, 11 more as an observer), the majority of people actively involved with the movement hold one or more of the beliefs I mention above. Definitely the case for movement professionals and full-timers. Furthermore, I did not discuss much about how MMY fufills the father figure for many people, but this is also undisputed among academics and counseling professionals. This is the context in which our discussion is relevant. Your point about the ages of the victims applies to ordinary incest, not the variety we are dealing with here. Age implies vulnerability. As you've pointed out, there are other measures of vulnerability. Which measures apply to MMY's secretaries and why? It has been quite some time since I read the accounts by alleged victims. Some of them made statements indicating beliefs about M's status as guru, divine preceptor, etc. I suggest you study the accounts yourself and draw your own conclusions. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and women
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ultrarishi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I choose not to think of this as a Guru and chela or spiritual father and disciple situation in which the sex was taking place. Take this out of the fanatasy of this guy being someone special and what do you have is just a man and a woman hopefully having consentual sex. * You may choose as you wish, but for at least some of the women involved, it was a guru/ chela relationship. Furthermore, as many psychologists have pointed out, people in cults often project father figure relationships on the leader. By dismissing these possibilities out of hand, you are merely creating a fantasy of your own. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Swami G responds to FFL post which anon poster sent
This brings to mind a previous post about internet trolls. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anon poster to Swami G: I hope I am not making a mistake by posting this but I sort of had a laugh from it- our new standard of understanding- the sensible thing is we all have holes in our mind and it is nonsense to think otherwise: --- L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: I don't know anything about Swami Gwho he is, where he comes from, his disciples nothing. But he seems peeved. G: peeved ? peeved at what ? hahahahaha * Also, he doesn't seem to understand that all language is metaphor. G: language is just language ... language only points in a direction that is all * Sometimes more, sometimes less, but ALWAYS metaphor. G: ok let him be happy with this * If Swami G doesn't think it's legitimate to talk about a hole in the mind', then it's not hard to understand why he is so careless with terms like nonsense. G: nonsense ... hahahahahah if any want to chase a hole in their heads - go for it ... be my guest enjoy it and be happy ... when the hole is found to contain nothing then be willing to go deeper... maybe his feathers were a little ruffled ... Maha Shanti OM 0 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch 'Yogi Bearer' Washington Post major article
The Movement missed a great opportunity here. They should have sent David Lynch and Howard Stern out together. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Major story in today's Washington Post Style Section WashingtonPost.com recapping the first leg of the college tour of the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness Based Education and World Peace. The final quote from Lynch - When people catch on to this, this is a done deal. J..G..D.. * http://snipurl.com/k9v6 LOS ANGELES David Lynch is wiggling his fingers. As the filmmaker becomes excited, wiggle speed increases. He is really wiggling now. He is talking about diving into an infinite ocean of pure bliss. Earthlings, pack a bag. David Lynch is on a mission. It might not be the mission you would have chosen for him. But it is his mission and he appears sincere. The director behind some of the most disturbing images in cinema, who brought us the mutant baby in the avant-garde classic Eraserhead and the portable gas-inhaling mask apparatus for Dennis Hopper's mommy, mommy, mommy character in Blue Velvet, would now like to save the planet from negativity. It's a no-brainer, he says. The plan? Peace factories. You build a facility like a factory, you house the people, you feed the people, they do their meditation, he says, and it's a beautiful, beautiful thing for the world. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Swami G comments on interview- Bhagwan Kalki
I don't know anything about Swami Gwho he is, where he comes from, his disciples nothing. But he seems peeved. Also, he doesn't seem to understand that all language is metaphor. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but ALWAYS metaphor. If Swami G doesn't think it's legitimate to talk about a hole in the mind', then it's not hard to understand why he is so careless with terms like nonsense. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Diksha stuff: Note from disciple of G: I am posting this for clarification purposes. Since many people are leaving their organizations, or Gurus and then keeping 2 gurus or swithing to Bhagavan kalki, maybe the comments from Swami G about this long interview can give these people something to think about. It may be a bit confusing but the interview is between * and Bhagwan I think, or it could be bagwan answering following with Swami G comment (G). G: will comment as am able * Bhagavan, how do you give enlightenment? How is it possible to give enlightenment? B: Ah yes. Basically it is through the process of what is called 'deeksha', an electrical energy which transfers through some kind of a hole in the mind of man. G: through some kind of *hole* ??? where is he getting this from ? Diksha is giving Shaktipat that in turn starts Shakti moving up through the layers of consciousness .. B: We believe that the mind of man is like a wall, which divides man from God. The deeksha is an electrical energy that makes a hole in this wall, which we call the mind. Once that happens, then God and man can come to relate with each other. G: if one is relating With God then it is duality and still seeking .. once Diksha is given and mantras are imparted then instruction bears fruit and the path is begun upwards .. B: The way they relate has to do with his background, his conditioning, his aspirations, his education, so many factors. But it is God who gives enlightenment, whether you call it God or cosmic consciousness or nature, call it what you want. So that takes over and enlightenment is delivered through God. He is the one who delivers. G: God is not a He or an object that gives something enlightenment is not a badge man attains .. it is our Original Seed Being . Grace appears as one surrenders and releases the conditioned mind which keeps the natural state of Realization at bey ... B: Our job is to give the deeksha and make a hole in the mind, and then God does the rest. It's a very complex process that only God can do. G: it is our Natural state . as what is unnatural is released then that which is the True replaces it ... mind and mans attachments are what is Complex .. Realization on the other hand is most natural and simplistic .. Shakti knows the way but ego needs to get out of the way .. B: So when you give deeksha you speak of this deeksha as a neurobiological process that affects the brain? G: Consciousness is Not the brain . but the brain reacts as awareness becomes steady . the brain reacts depending on the level of consciousness and attention or samadhi level . it is possible to change the brain waves at will this is possible to see with an eeg and bio-feedback test .. first one enters a specific awareness and as that takes place the brain waves follow . i participated in such a test . B: Yes, when we give deeksha it is like the passing on of an electrical energy that affects the brain, the spinal cord, and what we call the ductless glands or the 'chakras'. G: chakras are energy plexus ... have never heard anyone term them ductless glands . the body reacts as the energy starts to open and expand the awareness to various levels . * So most of the work is being done on the frontal lobes and the parietal lobes of the brain. There is an activation of the frontal lobes, and a deactivation of the parietal lobes, plus some energies are sent into the ductless glands to reactivate these chakras. So all this in turn produces a hole in the mind, and a link is established between God and man. Thereafter what happens is God's work. Up to then, of course, we can do certain things. G: there is nothing to substantiate this ( produces a hole in the brain indeed - what nonsense) . for the studies of mind and meditation read Zen and the Brain it has the most concrete studies that have been done in this area .. * : Right. So when you speak about losing the 'self', that's what happens when you make this hole in the wall? B: When you make the hole in the wall, then God can take over, and then he works on the senses, liberating the senses from the mind, from the clutches of the mind. When that happens you lose your 'self'. That part of the work happens through God himself. As he is the creator, He works like a computer to rearrange
[FairfieldLife] Re: does anyone have the advisory about visiting PK in India?
PK is pretty pure in the South. There are many families with long vaidya traditions. And cheap, unless they purposefully cater to westerners. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I agree with all that the advisory states, the only problem for most people in the US is that the amazingly high cost of PK offered by the TMO makes it essentially impossible to do. bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F wrote: does anyone have the advisory about visiting PK in India? Thank you http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TMFriends/message/4182 WARNING FOR PANCHAKARMA IN INDIA Someone recommended Pancha Karma (PK) in India. As a Pancha Karma physician I have learnt about cases who got severly ill from treatment there. One case who had consulted me got a great worsening of her rheumatic disease (she took PK later on her own initiative without consulting me about it). The reason was that several serious errors were made. Especially her severe AMA condition was completely ignored. It is a strong contraindication to PK as it can cause severe complications. She should have had an intensive AMA- eliminting pre-cure before PK and should not have been allowed to take a cure before her massive Ama load was eliminated. This is just one of several cases that I have met who have been treated very incompetently. In India, the standard of Ayurveda and PK is very uneven. Important parts of the knowledge have been lost or distorted with the consequence that the treatments may be ineffective or even harmful. Maharishi has put very much effort into restoring authentic Ayurveda in cooperation with leading experts including Dr Triguna, Dr Balraj Maharishi, Dr Dwivedi and others. Thereby the great efficiency and safety of the original method has been restored. Even the All-Indian Ayurvedic Congress - that organizes all ayurvedic doctors in India, has officially recognized that Maharishi Ayurveda is restored, authentic ayurveda. No doubt some other clinics in India may be good, but they are very few. Many more are those who have little knowledge and do Ayurveda for westernes with little if any knowledge just for making money. Unfortunately increasing numbers of Indians are now setting up such clinics also in the west including the US. It is tragic that thi Another problem is hygienic. Indians in general don't have the same awareness of hygiene as we have in the west. In Pancha karma, different treatements, especially enemas, require a very high level of hygiene. When it is lacking, infections of bacteria or amobae or harmful viruses including liver- damaging viral hepatitis can occur. In a PK clinic everybody need to be very aware of hygiene, even those cleaning the rooms. As this awareness is lacking in the culture, it has turned out to be practically impossible to train Indian staff to be enough hygienic to ensure the required watertight hygiene. Therefore Maharishi has recently sent out an official message to movement leaders asking them to inform all our people that they should not take Pancha Karma for the sake of their health safety, even in our own clinics in India including the famous clinic in New Delhi. Also, a basic rule in Pancha Karma is that you should avoid exertion including travelling far directly after Pancha Karma. Jet lag is an especially great burden on the physiology which can cause sometimes considerable complications. If one takes a cure in another timezone (exept the closest ones) one should stay at least two weeks before one goes home both because of the jetlag and the length of the journey. It is far better to invest some more money and make Maharishi Pancha Karma in one of our clinics in your country or Time Zone region. Jaan Suurküla, M.D. Physician at the Maharishi Ayurveda Clinic in Bad Ems, Germany, http://www.ayurveda-badems.de/ (go for the english version there) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links - Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL
[FairfieldLife] Re:Mr. M.DIXON?Right on DIXON CORRECTso is RUSH
Comment below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 11/29/05 10:40:09 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THANKS for acting here Mr. Dixon I am a lurker usually but I know of many what essentially agree with U far more with Rush generally. And thank you for your comment! I often feel like I'm the only person in this forum with the exception of one or two others that is middle or to the right in their politics. I also know other Meditators and Governors that in general share my opinions although they are not as opinionated as I am and keep their opinions to themselves or with others that think likewise. I don't always come to the defense of the president in this forum when he's attacked, there's no point! I think most people are set in their beliefs and arguing back and forth and trying to play gotcha and one- upsmanship is a waste of time and energy and I've never claimed any great skills as a debater anyway. However today I was called out by Offworld and to not answer might indicate that I have lost confidence in our president which I definitely have not done. I remember on my TTC, M. said that the spiritual path can make one think at times he is walking through a desert with no end in sight and then again one can see beautiful oasis along the way as well. Like wise when Bush originally spoke of the war on terror he warned it would be a long war far beyond his presidency and there would be times of good news and victories as well as bad news and defeats. He also said there would be times when there was not much news of any kind but that didn't mean nothing was being accomplished because a lot would be done covertly. Patience is a virtue but it is also something many Americans lack. We as a nation have a very short attention span and unfortunately need gentle and some times not so gentle reminders of what is at stake less we become complacent and forget the lessons of the past. Fortunately, many who formerly supported GWB have decided that despite GWB having the benefit of Republican majorities in both the House and the Senate, and the support of the Judicial System, GWB has done an awful a job as president. Therefore, the Middle and many on the Right have moved beyond party politics, and do not support GWB any longer. Mr. M.Dixon, please tell us more of your personal affinities for the GOP, GWB, and the like. It seems that an invigorating political vision has captured your attention, mind, heart and soul. I'd really like to read that which gives you the most enthusiasm for GWB and the GOP. I'm sure there are some redeeming values somewhere within the furious maelstrom from which you express your political ideas. So far, when I read your posts I hear an intoxicated shill, whose expressions are fueled by an intense, consistent emotional commitment that rages forth through your posts, which then become virtually devoid of rationality. The louder you express your ideas, the less convincing are your arguments. It is a very unpleasant experience, indeed, to read such foaming and frothy exortations. Take deep breath, and recount if you will, the first steps you took along the path of affinity for GWB and the GOP, long before you became enslaved by it. Perhaps if you can remember your initial inspirations you may still salvage commendable impressions, bring them forth to your conscious mind, and have them guide your current expressions, before you start howling at the moon. I have read quite a lot here recently about the lamentable decline in the quality of posts here on FFL this year. Unfortunately, I must agree. However, one or two posts a year of this quality, and all is redeemed. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dattatreya, Tripura Rahasya, and Ramana Maharishi
I recommend this link also. Swamiji's music is unfathomably wonderful and surprisingly varied. Many CDs are available. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dattatreya On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:25 PM, hanumanhoffman9 wrote: Datta Jayanthi is December 15th Jaya Guru Datta Tripura Rahasya was considered by Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the greatest works that expounded advaita philosophy. He often quoted from it and regretted that it was not available in English. snip Sri Tripura Rahasya is an ancient work in Sanskrit which has been printed all over India. The latest and best edition was brought out in the Kashi Sanskrit Series in 1925. The book is said to have been printed once before and issued in loose leaves. There was also an edition in book form printed in Belgaum towards the end of last century.* (The original Sanskrit text unfortunaeely appears to have been out of print for some years.) The esteem in which the work is held for its sanctity may be gauged from an account of it given in the Preface to the Maahaatmya Khanda. Mahaadeeva originally taught the Highest Truth to Vishnu who in turn taught Brahma in the Celestial regions. Later Vishnu incarnated on Earth as Sri Dattatreya, the Lord of the Avadhuutas (the naked sages), and taught it to Parasuraama with the added injunction that it should be communicated to Haritaayana who would later seek the Truth from him. Parasurama thus realised the Self by the guidance of Sri Datta and dwelt on the Malaya Hill in South India. In the meantime, a Brahmin, by name Sumanta, living on the banks of the Sarasvati had a son, Alarka by name, who used to hear his mother called Jaayi Aayi by his father. Being a child, he too addressed his mother Ai. He died in his childhood, and his last words on his death-bed were Ai Ai only. This sound is however sacred to the Goddess. Having been uttered in all innocence and purity of mind, it conferred unexpected merit on the dying child. He was later born as Sumedha, a son to Harita. Haritaayana is his patronymic. His spirituality developed as he grew up and he sought Parasuraama to learn the highest good from him, who in turn imparted to him the knowledge which he had gained from Dattaatreya. Parasuraama told him also that his master had predicted the compilation of the knowledge of the Highest Truth by Haritaayana for the benefit of mankind. Complete text continued at: http://sss.vn.ua/tripura1.htm In Datta Seva Sri Guru Datta Hanuman www.dattapeetham.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Einstein vs Newton
Britain The Times November 24, 2005 Newton trounces Einstein in vote on their relative merits By Mark Henderson, Science Correspondent HIS most famous equation, E=mc², is 100 years old, and 2005 has been named Einstein Year in his honour, but Albert Einstein has been trounced in a scientific beauty contest held to celebrate his own greatest achievements. The most famous head of hair in science was soundly beaten by Sir Isaac Newton yesterday in a poll on the relative merits of their breakthroughs, with both scientists and the public favouring the Englishman by a surprisingly wide margin. Asked by the Royal Society to decide which of the two made the more important contributions to science, 61.8 per cent of the public favoured the claims of the 17th- century scientist who developed calculus and the theory of gravity. Among 345 Royal Society scientists who voted, the margin of support for Newton was greater still, with 86.2 per cent deciding that his work was more important than Einstein's. The vote was closer over who made a bigger positive contribution to humankind in general. Newton was again twice the winner, but with only 50.1 per cent of the public vote and 60.9 per cent of the specialists'. The results of the online poll were revealed last night at a Royal Society debate on the two physicists' claims to being the greatest of all. Sir Isaac was a elected a fellow of the society in 1672, while Einstein was voted a Foreign Member in 1921. The poll was held as part of the celebrations of Einstein Year, which marks the German- born scientist's annus mirabilis of 1905, when he published three papers that laid the foundation of modern physics. Along with the special theory of relativity and its signature E=mc² equation, Einstein proved the existence of atoms and explained how light could have the properties of both waves and streams of particles. Jim Al-Khalili, a professor at the University of Surrey, who proposed Einstein at the debate last night, said: Within just a few months during 1905, Einstein published several papers that were to change the face of physics. He proved mathematically that atoms exist. He proved that light is lumpy. It is made up of tiny particles we now call photons and not continuous waves. He then published two papers on his theory of relativity, giving us a new view of reality itself. Einstein should also be favoured, he said, for finding the gaps in Sir Isaac's theories. He explained that Newton was wrong about the meaning of space and time, Professor Al- Khalili said. Sir John Enderby, Emeritus Professor of Physics at Bristol University and Vice-President of the Royal Society, argued Sir Isaac's corner. He said that Principia, Sir Isaac's great work, was a foundation stone of the modern scientific method. Sir John said: This book set out the mathematical principles of `natural philosophy' and showed how a universal force, gravity, applied to all objects in all parts of the Universe. This amazing insight once and for all ruled out the belief that somehow laws related to Earth-bound objects were in some sense inferior to those which governed the heavens. Lord May of Oxford, the president of the Royal Society, said: Many would say that comparing Newton and Einstein is like comparing apples and oranges, but what really matters is that people are appreciating the huge amount that both these physicists achieved, and that their impact on the world stretched far beyond the laboratory and the equation. THE RESULTS Royal Society scientists Newton 86.2% Einstein 13.8% Members of the public Newton 61.8% Einstein 38.2% Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] ? for Judy
Hi Judy, As you may have noticed, my appearances here are somewhat sporadic these days, so forgive me if I am covering old ground, but When were you last in FF? I believe I remember reading some time ago that you were here in the 80's perhaps. I am suggesting, for the sake of a more rewarding experience of satsang, that you plan to visit for a week or two sometime in the coming year. The prime disadvantage of the winter visit is, of course: winter. The cold weather tends to confine polite society in warm and sometimes hidden places. In the summer time you can bump into some fun almost anywhere in town. One recommendation I would be pretty solid with, though, is to come during Art Walk week, First Friday in every month. Beginning in about May, the scene on the square can be pretty outrageous. The main thing, though, is that it is much easier to go more deeply into the satsang when it is not confined to the computer screen. I'm heading out for turkey now, but will check back later to see what you and others have to say about prospects for visiting the ongoing satsang here. As someone said last night, FF is more like the Kumbh Mela than anything else which comes to mind. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: pc recording studio home setup
Get a Mac and do it witih Garage Band. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kenny H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Group I have a beautiful Taylor 12-string guitar (the sound transports me when I play) and a gorgeous Martin D-18 custom guitar and I want to lay down some multilayered tracks here at home so I can make beautiful music with myself (smooch). Has anyone reading here at FFLife had experience in setting up their pc as a recording studio? I need to start really basic just so I can lay down a rhythm track or two to practice along with and then eventually add some lead lines. I'd appreciate any advice I can get about doing this. Post to me here or beep me at kennyhassman at yahoo dot com KH Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Personality issues should not enter into it and MIU should have honored a request from an adjacent and major university. It would have been a little like handing him a gun so he could shoot them. Judy, this strikes me as a really odd thing to say. Well, actually I think you have a really odd way of interpreting it. Self-serving, even. Self-serving? This strikes me as ad hominem, the type of argument you so famously abhor. It's only ad hominem argumentation if it's a *substitute* for reasoned argument. And I wasn't using it as part of my argument in any case; it was just an observation (which I stand by). What I am trying to point out here is that for some reason you appear to be arguing in favor of with-holding information, which immediately invalidates any scientific research, which by nature is only accepted if it is open to public scrutiny. Not arguing in favor of it, of course (speaking of straw men). Just pointing out that in this case the fact that they did withhold information does not necessarily mean they had something to hide; there were other considerations as well. Only a loaded gun can shoot someone, and only one kind of ammunition could have hurt MIU: evidence that their conclusions were not vald. Or *apparent* evidence. It's really pretty amusing that you're so sure the TM researchers massaged the data to show results that didn't exist, yet you can't conceive of a hostile researcher massaging data that shows real results so it ends up looking as if there are none. Now you are resorting to the straw man, and Big Time, if I may say so. Well, no, I'm not at all resorting to the straw man, sorry. You need to refresh your understanding of rhetorical fallacies and perhaps take a look at your own words again. Regarding my certainty that massaging took place: I wasn't questioning that. snip long justification for certainty Now, as for your remark that I can't conceive of a hostile researcher massaging data that shows real results so it ends up looking as if there are none: I have made no statements anywhere near that ball park. Oh, sure you did: Only one kind of ammunition could have hurt MIU: evidence that their conclusions were not vald. To this point, I have not even mentioned Markovsky. So while we're on the subject, let me remove all doubt about it. Markovsky does seem biased in some respects, and may even exhibiit some form of David/Goliath complex, but that doesn't mean that none of his criticisms are valid. They must be examined on the basis of their merit, and that cannot be done unless all the evidence is available. Actually the criticisms he has made, since he made them on the basis of what was published and not on the unpublished data, can be evaluated on the basis of their merit by examining the published study, i.e., what he was working with. I agree, some of his criticisms do appear to be quite valid (although, of course, we haven't heard a rebuttal from the researchers; I seem to remember something about the journal refusing to publish one, but I'm not positive about that). I don't know whether the TM researchers fudged the data when they massaged it. I do know that they had very good reason not to give the data to Markovsky even if the massaging was legitimate and the results were genuine and everything was pure as the driven snow, because he had the motivation and the knowhow to make it *look* like garbage. It is not uncommon in the public discourse of science for competitors to try to descredit each other. The whole concept of science as a public discipline is that the process will ultimately support truth. But not if the data are hidden. Well, but if this isn't the case, if the discrediting actually *suppressed* truth sometimes, we'd never know it, would we? All we see are the instances in which truth did win out. So I don't think you can say this with such certainty. That is, if they had nothing to fear, why not hand over the empty gun? Because Markovsky had his own bullets and powder, of course. As I said before, the only information that can hurt a researcher is false information. I think you mean here what you said before about evidence that the researchers' conclusions were not valid (otherwise, I'd point out that false or at least distorted information is exactly what they expected from Markovsky). If MIU's
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip *If* there really is a Maharishi Effect, it's hard to see how it could be considered anything less than a tragedy that the project and the study had no impact. I start to agree, then I wonder how important any of this really is in the Big Picture. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [...] At this point, it would take a separate study, beginning from the raw stats, to see if such a reduction was obvious. As I said before, quite a lot of massaging was required afterwards to make the data look good. That may or may not be the case. The weather model, as Judy pointed out, was always part of the study protocol. Perhaps the raw data wasn't as nice as they had hoped, but the raw data DID show reductions from the same time period a year ago. I was on campus the whole time. I new some of the people who were working on the thing. I observed how the story was spun, how it changed as the months rolled by. All this discussion about the weather model is ridiculous. The massaging went far beyond all that. And it stilll wasn't enough. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Personality issues should not enter into it and MIU should have honored a request from an adjacent and major university. It would have been a little like handing him a gun so he could shoot them. Judy, this strikes me as a really odd thing to say. Only a loaded gun can shoot someone, and only one kind of ammunition could have hurt MIU: evidence that their conclusions were not valid. That is, if they had nothing to fear, why not hand over the empty gun? L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Personality issues should not enter into it and MIU should have honored a request from an adjacent and major university. It would have been a little like handing him a gun so he could shoot them. Judy, this strikes me as a really odd thing to say. Well, actually I think you have a really odd way of interpreting it. Self-serving, even. Self-serving? This strikes me as ad hominem, the type of argument you so famously abhor. What I am trying to point out here is that for some reason you appear to be arguing in favor of with-holding information, which immediately invalidates any scientific research, which by nature is only accepted if it is open to public scrutiny. Only a loaded gun can shoot someone, and only one kind of ammunition could have hurt MIU: evidence that their conclusions were not vald. Or *apparent* evidence. It's really pretty amusing that you're so sure the TM researchers massaged the data to show results that didn't exist, yet you can't conceive of a hostile researcher massaging data that shows real results so it ends up looking as if there are none. Now you are resorting to the straw man, and Big Time, if I may say so. Regarding my certainty that massaging took place: I lived on campus for the better part of 20 years, 7 as a student. I was in constant contact with people who were involved with TM research, including graduate students who worked on many of the published studies, including the one in question. First, as a general point, I would like to say unequivocally that I was told on several occasions by graduate students in the sciences that such massaging did occur, often because Maharishi felt the results from studies were lack lustre and needed to be beefed up. I also remember a discussion with a grad student from the MASCI who told me that a student who said that research studies had not supported the claim for improved eyesight based on TM practice was told by faculty that M had said vision improved, so if the study contradicted M it must be wrong. With regard to the specific study in question, I have stated clearly on several occasions that it took considerable work after the fact to achieve the eventual claim of 25% reduction of crime, and that I know this from numerous discussions with someone who was working on it at the time. I have never said that I don't believe in the Maharishi Effect, nor have I said that nothing happened in the DC project. However, the movement has a long history of fudging studies, and this one appears to fall in that tradition. Now, as for your remark that I can't conceive of a hostile researcher massaging data that shows real results so it ends up looking as if there are none: I have made no statements anywhere near that ball park. To this point, I have not even mentioned Markovsky. So while we're on the subject, let me remove all doubt about it. Markovsky does seem biased in some respects, and may even exhibiit some form of David/Goliath complex, but that doesn't mean that none of his criticisms are valid. They must be examined on the basis of their merit, and that cannot be done unless all the evidence is available. I don't know whether the TM researchers fudged the data when they massaged it. I do know that they had very good reason not to give the data to Markovsky even if the massaging was legitimate and the results were genuine and everything was pure as the driven snow, because he had the motivation and the knowhow to make it *look* like garbage. It is not uncommon in the public discourse of science for competitors to try to descredit each other. The whole concept of science as a public discipline is that the process will ultimately support truth. But not if the data are hidden. That is, if they had nothing to fear, why not hand over the empty gun? Because Markovsky had his own bullets and powder, of course. As I said before, the only information that can hurt a researcher is false information. If MIU's data were good, they had nothing to fear, in the long run, from disclosing. This is so fundamental I am surprised that it seems to need discussion. Did you read what I said about Markovsky having complained--in a scholarly journal, yet, as well as endlessly on alt.m.t--that the TM researchers were unethical because they didn't obtain informed consent from the populations they were trying to affect? Does that say objective and unbiased to you? I have never, ever, said that Markovsky was objective and unbiased, and I defy you to demonstrate otherwise
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LB, (or anyone familiar with the study) Per your prior note, What was added in the 25% second round of analysis, relative to the first round, the 17% results? Was it the weather variables or Index? Or was weather included in the first round of analysis? If weather was in the first round. what was added in the second round. When where the other control variables, other crime factors such as police on the street, police practices, LE funding, etc introduced? Clearing up a minor point on my own initial lowball estimate of 17%: PANDITS HAD BEEN PART OF THE ORIGINAL PROTOCOL. They had been bought and paid for. Then they didn't show. So the group that participated was not as powerful as the group that had originally been anticipated. After the scaling back of original reports claiming 25% reduction (might have been 20% come to think of it), there was an ongoing effort of several months to make the data fit. My graduate student friend Mark __ (last name still not remembered) was a part of this. I had a standing joke with him about it: whenever I bumped into him I would ask, Seen any good statistics lately? Then he would give me an informal update. Let me be clear that this was not a conspiratorial relationship. Mark was completely sold on the program and convinced that the correct interpretation of the data would reveal the results. I was just an innocent bystander. Sort of. Since I was not recording all the details for posterity at the time, only the impressions remain. The impressions indicated that it took quite an effort to rectify the findings based on their original model. I do not remember a single alteration or adjustment, but something more like a scavenger hunt. It is interesting to me how we are all quibbling about the details. If anything is revealed here, it is that the demonstration demonstrated nothing. Except, perhaps, to the participants. Personally, I thought the course was a great experience. I doubt if anyone outside the course even remembers it. Certainly it is not being cited in all the journals as a profound feat of engineering in the domain of collective consciousness. Needless to say, this is a typical cult phenomenonthe insiders believing that their every breath shakes the world, the outsiders not even noticing. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Personally, I thought the course was a great experience. I doubt if anyone outside the course even remembers it. Certainly it is not being cited in all the journals as a profound feat of engineering in the domain of collective consciousness. Needless to say, this is a typical cult phenomenonthe insiders believing that their every breath shakes the world, the outsiders not even noticing. This is a valid point, but there are plenty of examples in the scientific community of a study or even a mathematical technique being ignored for years, decades (or even a century in the case of the math) that later on are seen as ground-breaking. True enough, point well taken. In a general sense, I think the consciousness movement will look better in retrospect than at its beginnings. On the other hand, I doubt that many of the other examples you refer to have had an amply-funded PR organization touting them, either. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip PANDITS HAD BEEN PART OF THE ORIGINAL PROTOCOL. They were not any part of the protocol that was made public, nor any part of the discussion and planning by the independent review board that was made public. I got on the mailing list for everything that was released about the study from its early stages, and there was no mention of pandits anywhere in it. Protocol might have been a poor choice of words here, given its specific meaning with respect to scientific research. However, the pandits were indeed a central part of the pland for the course, and their absence was widely noted when they failed to show. With all due respect, the fact that you do not recall this at all raises some question about the accuracy of other points you have raised. They had been bought and paid for. Then they didn't show. So the group that participated was not as powerful as the group that had originally been anticipated. After the scaling back of original reports claiming 25% reduction (might have been 20% come to think of it), Yes, it was 20 percent. there was an ongoing effort of several months to make the data fit. My graduate student friend Mark __ (last name still not remembered) was a part of this. I had a standing joke with him about it: whenever I bumped into him I would ask, Seen any good statistics lately? Then he would give me an informal update. Let me be clear that this was not a conspiratorial relationship. Mark was completely sold on the program and convinced that the correct interpretation of the data would reveal the results. I was just an innocent bystander. Sort of. Since I was not recording all the details for posterity at the time, only the impressions remain. The impressions indicated that it took quite an effort to rectify the findings based on their original model. I do not remember a single alteration or adjustment, but something more like a scavenger hunt. It is interesting to me how we are all quibbling about the details. If anything is revealed here, it is that the demonstration demonstrated nothing. Except, perhaps, to the participants. Even the *raw data*--the crime rate statistics--showed a very significant reduction from the rate the previous year for that period, considerably more than would have been expected from the overall crime trend. What's more, that reduction occurred only during the demonstration period and for a few weeks afterward. Then it went right back up. I think that the movement spin machine frames it that way, but as I remember, the police in DC, who had been very cooperative with the study, found the results to be ambiguous at best. At this point, it would take a separate study, beginning from the raw stats, to see if such a reduction was obvious. As I said before, quite a lot of massaging was required afterwards to make the data look good. One of the problems the researchers encountered was obtaining the crime data in the way they had originally anticipated. They had apparently been told by law enforcement (FBI or DC police, not sure which) that they would get it in a certain form, broken down into certain categories, and they constructed their methodology around that understanding. Whether they misunderstood or had been misinformed isn't clear, but a good deal of the fumfing around they had to do afterwards involved redoing the analysis to deal with the form in which they *did* get the data. Plus which, there was a long delay in obtaining one major part of the data. I don't remember the details, just the general outline. Some of this may be described in the study itself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not even insisting that *this* study demonstrates the Maharishi Effect, though. It's just that I've seen zillions of misconceptions about how it was done, Which is interesting, since no one is even clear on the details. Was ARMIA or regreesion used. If ARIMA was used (which I think it was) did they have 6 seasons of data -- a minimum for ARIMA models. What were the independent variables tested? (both accepted in the model and those rejected). What was the actual time frame of the analysis (not the intervention -- we know it was 8 weeks). Mark indicated 5 year data was used. Some appear to suggest it was the intervention period + short term control buffers on the front and back end. How was the the heat index constructed? etc. accompanied by completely invalid criticisms. If somebody's going to criticize the study, they should do so on the basis of how it was actually conducted, not some uninformed straw-man version. Sorry, what I am proposing is not uniformed. Nor is it a strawman. Otherwise, just accept it for what it was: during an eight-week period in D.C. in June and July 1993 when a large World Peace Assembly was being held, there was a sharp drop in the crime rate. Maybe it was the Maharishi Effect, maybe it wasn't. I think thats what i was saying. The analysis showed an effct. An interesting exploratory study. There are a lot of methodological questions, not answered -- probably because no one has a copy of the study. The results are inconclusive, as you say maybe it was the Maharishi Effect, maybe it wasn't. I am not clear why you view a statement of an outline of what a credible research design would look like is inappropriate or creates a strawman. They spent a LONG TIME massaging the data after the study. They had predicted 25% reduction in crime. Their first published result was 16 or 17%, which was EXACTLY WHAT I HAD PREDICTED, IN PRINT, PRIOR TO THE COURSE. Then they when back to the massage table, and eventually they claimed 25%. I knew one of the guys who was doing the massaging, a graduate student named Mark_ (last name forgotten, for the moment.) L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
Whoa, too embarrassing! I predicted, but NOT in print. But in a way, I did, too. Here is the quote from Survival In Paradise (Thursday, August 26, 1993): My own prediction for the course was characteristically conservative. [Yes, it would have been more impressive to have lodged it with an independant monitoring oranization, or at least to have put it into print, but since the paper didn't come out until after the course, this was the best I could do.] I anticipated that the results of the course would be mixed: a reduction in crime statistics of about 17%, enough so that the Movement would at least save face, or would feel internally vindicated for its efforts, but not enough to clearly convince others that we had accomplished the equivalent of the Eddington expediition. Just so the chronology is understood, etc: in this publication, soon after the course, I was admitting that I had apparently low-balled the stats. This was because the first reports of the Movement were claiming 25%, or thereabouts. Then they scaled back to 17%, or thereabouts. Then they started massaging. My impression, based on a few conversations with my friend Mark _ (last name forgotten) was that they were digging around for anything they could toss into the equations to beef up the percentage of reduction. It was somewhat reminiscent of the previous discussion of the problem about restoring the claim that the rest during TM is twice as deep as the rest during sleep. To recap: my guesstimation was indeed intutional, and based on the circumstance that the pundits were not actually going to appear for the course and the numbers were going to be a bit low. Initial, preliminary claims of 25% were downgraded (although THIS did not happen until after I published, making my after the fact prediction somewhat prescient). Then they massaged, and got the stats back up. By the way, I don't remember any sudden, sharp drop in crime stats in DC. Actually, there was a mass gang banger murder at a swimming pool during the first week or so, and violent homocides were probably up. Anyone else remember about that? L B S 5 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] They spent a LONG TIME massaging the data after the study. They had predicted 25% reduction in crime. Their first published result was 16 or 17%, which was EXACTLY WHAT I HAD PREDICTED, IN PRINT, PRIOR TO THE COURSE. On what basis? Analysis? Guesstimate? Then they when back to the massage table, and eventually they claimed 25%. I knew one of the guys who was doing the massaging, a graduate student named Mark_ (last name forgotten, for the moment.) ok, now its starting to make more sense. I would guess that the original study used ARIMA,testing over say a 4 month period, 1 month pre and most, 2 months course, and showed the 17% drop. Though this would be curious methodologically in that ARIMA models typically require 5-6 seasons of data to reliable. THEN, later, when they decided that they wanted to test for weather effects, I am guessing that a 3-5 year regression model was used to control for weather in predicting crime rates. No ME variable. They then used this estimated weather normalized crime rate to replace the pre and post months data in the ARIMA model. If thats what they did, it is funky - see adjacent post. They could have adjusted for weather in the ARIMA model, unless they were using a very simple bi-variate form of the model that only allowed testing the intervnetion variable (ME) against crime. If so, thats weak methodology. A multivariate form of the ARIMA (or regression) should have been used to control for weather and all the other crime factors. And its been stated over and over that they did test for multiple crime factors. Could it be that they simply tested all the independent crime variables ONLY in the longer term weather/crime model, and NOT in the actual impact analysis in the ARIMA model? If so, it smells so funky, very band-aidish. And prone to lots of hidden analyst discretion (cough) (cherry-picking). I am beginning to wonder if the absence of copies of the study are intentional - to hide such funky analysis (if above is what they did -- though thats the only expalanation of their methodolgy that fits the bits and pieces people have contributed.) They should put the data out on a web site and let analysts go at it. Using methodologies of their choice. The reason they have not made the data accessible speaks volumes. One only hides data, when it won't hold up to independent analysis. Or anyone could reconstruct the dataset. Crime data, socialogical variables, weather data, etc are all accessible -- though it would take a bit of effort to dig it out for near 20 years ago. And the ME participation numbers should
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was Lynch - Now Crime, Abortion the DC study
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To recap: my guesstimation was indeed intutional, and based on the circumstance that the pundits were not actually going to appear for the course No pundits were *scheduled* to appear for the course. What are you talking about? It was just your everyday TM-Sidhis practitioners (probably some Mother Divine and Purusha, though). Then it was the following year that the pundits were bought and paid for but didn't come. My lowballing was probably based on course participant numbers falling somewhat short of ideal. L B S snip By the way, I don't remember any sudden, sharp drop in crime stats in DC. Actually, there was a mass gang banger murder at a swimming pool during the first week or so, and violent homocides were probably up. Yes, to their embarrassment, homicides *did* go up. But bear in mind that there is always a far lower number of homicides than of other violent crimes, so a spike in the percentage of homicides over a short period can look more significant than it is; it doesn't necessarily represent a trend. The study discusses this in some detail. Even from the raw FBI data, there was a sharp drop in the number of assaults and rapes from what would have been predicted. Robberies stayed relatively constant, however. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch in Seattle paper
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phrases like oceans of bliss and unified field spill out with breathless rapture, sounding all the stranger given Lynch's high- pitched, little-old-man voice -- which one Philadelphia Inquirer reporter described as surprisingly Poindexter-y. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/movies/247166_lynch05.html I've been meditating for 35 years, Roth said jokingly, and I don't know anything he's talking about -- 'unified field' stuff. I just use it. (David) uses big words and this is how he always is with everything. He lives in a very abstract world. Interesting comments from a guy who spent years hawking unified field-based programs for the NLP. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letter from Farrokh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11/1/05 10:51 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, do you know why Bevan stopped Judge Anklesaria from coming to the conference? I wonder what the stated reason was. Farrokh is not a judge. He is a lawyer and a TM teacher. LB is the one who told me the Conference/Bevan story. Maybe he can answer the question. Here is Farrokh's web site: http://www.enlightenedsentencing.org/ I have to plead the Nixon defense again. I don't remember exactly when I heard this story, or who told it to me. As it was narrated, Farrokh had worked very hard to arrange this conference, then was told by Bevan not to attend. Technically, I have to regard this as a rumor; that is, I am only reporting what I was told. If this actually happened, then to pick up on the speculation touched upon above, I can see two possible angles: 1) Bevan's well-known tendency to cut perceived rivals off at the knees came into play. 2) From, perhaps, Michael Dillbeck's point of view (this is a speculation for the sake of consideration, NOT an attribution)perhaps the rebellious tendencies shown in Farrokh's letter were already somewhat in evidence and Bevan was merely acting responsibly to keep a loose cannon in check. Combinations, permutations, alternatives, and factual information are all welcomed. Cheers. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The concept has been defunct for years. Find mention of O2 consumption in any current research or any current talking points scientific charts. I did not say that 02 had been retained. What WAS retained was state of rest twice as deep as sleep, only now as indicated by metastudies, not by one single, decisive measure. L B S Metastudies of what parameters? The global physiological measures. A metastudy is a mathematical workup of existing studies. The statistical methods are comparatively sophisticated, and in my opinion, comparatively more subject to manipulation for that reason. Before this goes too far into the trees, let me once again identify the forest I am discussing: For many years (based primarily on Wallace), TM teachers around the world proudly pointed to the O2 consumption chart and told audiences collectively numbering in the milllions that this one, single, incontrovertible measure proved beyond reasonable doubt that TM provided the deepest level of rest available to humanityan coincidentally, unavailable by any other method. With Kesterson's finding, that claim was shattered. It was not, however, immediately withdrawn from public use. No bulletin was sent out to teachers in the field. (In fact, I'm sure there must be old timers out there still using it.) Instead, it was retired without fanfare. In its place were now claims that subtle measures of blood chemistry and other global measures showed that TM produced a level of rest twice as deep as sleep. So the concept was not dropped. Looking back, at this point I do not remember whether the subtle blood chemistry argument was based on metastudies. The metastudy argument gained its greatest currency when a metastudy was produced to show that TM was more effective than all other meditation techniques. My pointforgive me for belaboring it, but it's easy to overlookis that the simplest and most effective argument for TM had crumpled. It was replaced with something that is neither simple enough for the average person to undestand nor obvious enough to be acknowledged as decisive. Generally speaking, every benefit of TM has been documented for other programs. Because TM has more research behind it, it is comparatively easy to make the global argument, that no other technique produces the overall benefits. This argument is suspect because of the generally bad reputation of TM research in general, which has been discussed elsewhere. The bottom line, from my point of view, is that TM research will never again be able to establish the primacy of the TM technique among other forms of meditation and self- improvement programs. On a practical level, it doesn't matter whether the reasons are sociological or scientific, a matter of prejudice or a matter of professional evaluation. The arguments for the superiority of TM are of such a sophisticated level of science and mathematics that Joe Lunchbucket will never have a clue whether they mean anything or not. Nor will most of his neighbors who possess MAs and PhDs. This is not to say that TM research does not generate scientific support or funding for TM programs, as some who post here are quick to point out. But the view from inside the movement is deeply skewed, and doesn't acknowledge that TMs competitors are out there making hay as well. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Looking back, at this point I do not remember whether the subtle blood chemistry argument was based on metastudies. I dug this up from an old post (March 200) of mine on alt.meditation.transcendental; I no longer recall where I got the Wallace quote, but I think it may be about the subtle blood chemistry you're referring to: Wallace writes of the Kesterton study, referring to the finding of many TM studies and also of Kesterton's study of periods of spontaneous breath suspension: Recent studies have extended these results and more carefully analyzed the neurophysiological control of respiratory patterns during the TM technique. These studies show both a decreased sensitivity to increased levels of carbon dioxide added to the air inhaled during meditation and an increased sensitivity to low levels of oxygen. This suggests an even more refined pattern of physiological functioning, indicating that there are specific alterations in centers within the brain that are involved with monitoring both carbon dioxide and oxygen levels. In other words, Wallace's early findings may not have been accurate, but more detailed analysis shows even more interesting and complex changes than those he initially reported. My recollection at this point is somewhat vague, but I think that other neurochemicals and/or hormonal and/or metabolic markers were involved. However, regarding your last statement ^ above: More complex, yes; but more interesting? To whom? To the TM enthusiast or the neurophysiologist, perhaps. However, the complexity and subtlety of these findings substantially mutes their impact on the public mind. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To the extent that there are such interesting but complicated scientific findings, it must drive the researchers nuts knowing that laypeople aren't going to be able to make head nor tail of them. Yeah. I guess we all have a cross to bear. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My recollection at this point is somewhat vague, Is this your Scooter Libby defense? I got it from Nixon, actually. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings provide some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute measures of validity. Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's research. I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem. Why yes, and acknowledged by everyone these days: no control group. The experimental design had the subjects serve as their own controls; that was the point about measuring metabolism before TM and during TM. The problem was that they didn't measure the difference between [sitting/eyes open] and [sitting/eyes closed] before measuring TM. That's how they failed to note that [sitting/eyes closed] lowered the oxygen consumption as much as did TM. Another way of putting it might be: Measurements indicate the possibility that reduction of oxygen consumption during TM may be due to closing the eyes, as opposed to commencing the mantra. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings provide some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute measures of validity. Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's research. I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem. ** The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that the reduction of oxygen consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it went something like this: Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their measurements taken while meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed entirely to TM. Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes closed reduced oxygen consumption by the same amount as TM. It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. O2 consumption twice as low as the deepest point of sleep had been the proof of TM's profundity; now TM was equivalent to sitting quietly with eyes closed. The next development was metastudies which showed that, according to global measures, TM produced a state of rest twice as deep as deep sleep. The claim was the same, but no longer based on a starkly simple, irrefutable measurement. Now it was teased out of the statistics. The whole thing was smoothed over within a few months. L B S Except that Kesterson's finding was based on examining the physiology of people inthe breath suspension state because the assumption was that O2 consumption was driving the reduction in O2. It wasn't. That was NOT smoothed over, and Keith Wallace's book formally acknowledges that the early studies were flawed in that regard. O2 is no longer seen as a measure of rest during TM. To the best of my knowledge, Kesterson was the first (at least within the movement) to point out the design flaw. You are correct about the nature of his research; however, during the course of his research he pointed out the flaw under consideration here. The nature of the smoothing over had to do with finding a justification for maintaining the twice as deep as sleep epithet. As I mentioned above, this concept has been retained, but on the basis of metastudies, not on the basis of a single measure as previously. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings provide some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute measures of validity. Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's research. I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem. ** The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that the reduction of oxygen consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it went something like this: Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their measurements taken while meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed entirely to TM. Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes closed reduced oxygen consumption by the same amount as TM. It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. O2 consumption twice as low as the deepest point of sleep had been the proof of TM's profundity; now TM was equivalent to sitting quietly with eyes closed. The next development was metastudies which showed that, according to global measures, TM produced a state of rest twice as deep as deep sleep. The claim was the same, but no longer based on a starkly simple, irrefutable measurement. Now it was teased out of the statistics. The whole thing was smoothed over within a few months. L B S ** Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of breath (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a just a measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen consumption is significantly lower in TM. @@@ Exactly, Bobananda. However, it would be indistinguishably lower than if you were just sitting with eyes closed. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver snip now TM was equivalent to sitting quietly with eyes closed. snip Than what? Keith Wallace sez that prone resting shows the lowest O2 consumption. You're behind the times... Haven't you read The Electic Koolaid Acid Test? We're all behind the times. The closest anyone gets is 1/30 of a second. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Mebbe so, but what TMer has not experienced the lessening of breath (which subsumes lessening of oxygen consumption), so it's a just a measurement problem -- it's not false that oxygen consumption is significantly lower in TM. @@@ Exactly, Bobananda. However, it would be indistinguishably lower than if you were just sitting with eyes closed. L B S I have never in my life had anything like the experience of breath suspension that I get from TM, by just sitting with my eyes closed. The two are ENTIRELY different states of physiology, and if someone measures me when I am in that state of breath suspension they will wonder how my body is maintianed. There are yogi's who can sustain it for days, with VERY low oxygen consumption. Mine is unstable and I cannot cause it at will, but it is the same thing in lesser form. OffWorld You may be correct in this. My response to Bobananda was a sweeping overgeneralization in that I was only referring to the average readings. Breath suspension may be unique to meditation. I can't speak to this definitively because I don't know if there is research on the possibility or extent of breath suspension among those who just sit quietly with eyes closed. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings provide some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute measures of validity. Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's research. I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem. ** The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that the reduction of oxygen consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it went something like this: Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their measurements taken while meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed entirely to TM. Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes closed reduced oxygen consumption by the same amount as TM. It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. O2 consumption twice as low as the deepest point of sleep had been the proof of TM's profundity; now TM was equivalent to sitting quietly with eyes closed. The next development was metastudies which showed that, according to global measures, TM produced a state of rest twice as deep as deep sleep. The claim was the same, but no longer based on a starkly simple, irrefutable measurement. Now it was teased out of the statistics. The whole thing was smoothed over within a few months. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings provide some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute measures of validity. Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's research. I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem. ** The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that the reduction of oxygen consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it went something like this: Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their measurements taken while meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed entirely to TM. Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes closed reduced oxygen consumption by the same amount as TM. It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. O2 consumption twice as low as the deepest point of sleep had been the proof of TM's profundity; now TM was equivalent to sitting quietly with eyes closed. Wow, still relying on unpublished research and rumor are we? Hardly a 'bombshell'. Unpublished gossip, another arrow to the bigot's bow. OffWorld If you are referring to Kesterson's research, you might wish to consider that it was included in the dissertation for which MIU awarded his PhD. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Peer Reviewed Journals -- the Good, Bad and the Ugly (PS)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Response below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] My experience is that refereed journals and proceedings provide some degree of feedback and critique, but are not absolute measures of validity. Is anyone here familiar with what kesterton (MIU's first PhD in physiology) found in attempting to replicate Wallace's research. I've been told he uncovered a serious methodological problem. ** The methodological problem had to do with the assumption that the reduction of oxygen consumption was due to TM practice. If I remember correctly, it went something like this: Subjects sitting quietly with eyes open were compared to their measurements taken while meditating. The drop in oxygen consumption was attributed entirely to TM. Subsequent research showed that just sitting quietly with eyes closed reduced oxygen consumption by the same amount as TM. It was a bombshell that hardly anyone noticed. O2 consumption twice as low as the deepest point of sleep had been the proof of TM's profundity; now TM was equivalent to sitting quietly with eyes closed. Wow, still relying on unpublished research and rumor are we? Hardly a 'bombshell'. Unpublished gossip, another arrow to the bigot's bow. OffWorld If you are referring to Kesterson's research, you might wish to consider that it was included in the dissertation for which MIU awarded his PhD. L B S By the way, I discussed Kesterson's research with Keith, and he confirmed to me that Kesterson's findings were correct. L B S Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Asheville TM center
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://tinyurl.com/c7ujt The technique comes from India, but it's not Indian, said center co-director Linda Castillon, a former professional dancer who came to Asheville about nine years ago. It's not a religion, and has no affiliation with any type of belief system. It's a simple, natural, effortless technique. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Surprising news about your color printer
Sleuths Crack Tracking Code Discovered in Color Printers By Mike Musgrove Washington Post Staff Writer 10/19/05 Washington Post -- -- It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it isn't. The pages coming out of your color printer may contain hidden information that could be used to track you down if you ever cross the U.S. government. Last year, an article in PC World magazine pointed out that printouts from many color laser printers contained yellow dots scattered across the page, viewable only with a special kind of flashlight. The article quoted a senior researcher at Xerox Corp. as saying the dots contain information useful to law-enforcement authorities, a secret digital license tag for tracking down criminals. The content of the coded information was supposed to be a secret, available only to agencies looking for counterfeiters who use color printers. Now, the secret is out. Yesterday, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco consumer privacy group, said it had cracked the code used in a widely used line of Xerox printers, an invisible bar code of sorts that contains the serial number of the printer as well as the date and time a document was printed. With the Xerox printers, the information appears as a pattern of yellow dots, each only a millimeter wide and visible only with a magnifying glass and a blue light. The EFF said it has identified similar coding on pages printed from nearly every major printer manufacturer, including Hewlett-Packard Co., though its team has so far cracked the codes for only one type of Xerox printer. The U.S. Secret Service acknowledged yesterday that the markings, which are not visible to the human eye, are there, but it played down the use for invading privacy. It's strictly a countermeasure to prevent illegal activity specific to counterfeiting, agency spokesman Eric Zahren said. It's to protect our currency and to protect people's hard- earned money. It's unclear whether the yellow-dot codes have ever been used to make an arrest. And no one would say how long the codes have been in use. But Seth Schoen, the EFF technologist who led the organization's research, said he had seen the coding on documents produced by printers that were at least 10 years old. It seems like someone in the government has managed to have a lot of influence in printing technology, he said. Xerox spokesman Bill McKee confirmed the existence of the hidden codes, but he said the company was simply assisting an agency that asked for help. McKee said the program was part of a cooperation with government agencies, competing manufacturers and a consortium of banks, but would not provide further details. HP said in a statement that it is involved in anti-counterfeiting measures and supports the cooperation between the printer industry and those who are working to reduce counterfeiting. Schoen said that the existence of the encoded information could be a threat to people who live in repressive governments or those who have a legitimate need for privacy. It reminds him, he said, of a program the Soviet Union once had in place to record sample typewriter printouts in hopes of tracking the origins of underground, self-published literature. It's disturbing that something on this scale, with so many privacy implications, happened with such a tiny amount of publicity, Schoen said. And it's not as if the information is encrypted in a highly secure fashion, Schoen said. The EFF spent months collecting samples from printers around the world and then handed them off to an intern, who came back with the results in about a week. We were able to break this code very rapidly, Schoen said. © 2005 The Washington Post Company Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Judgemental Views
Let's simplify this altogether-too-contentious discussion: Peter is an asshole. How do I know this? Because it takes one to know one. How do all the other contributors to the discussion know this? Because it takes one to know one. The difference is only in the superficial variety. Peter is a shoot-from-the-hip asshole, whereas Akasha and Authfriend are obsessive-parsing- assholes. It takes all kinds. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To me you seem to be angry at me and waiting for any opportunity to discount me (thus the fuck face comment). You are flabbergasted at some of my responses to you. Well, that is what your responses initially mean to me. But when you state that you had no intention of insulting me and I re-read your post, then I understand, to a greater degree, the intention of your post. I still find the comments offending, but now I understand that your intent was not to insult me so I just chalk it up to miscmiscommunicationen this occurs between us or between anybody, the miscmiscommunications not lie in one person only (...where does this come from inside Peter?) but is the result of the non-identical,assumptive or meaning generating world of both people. Yes! I see this as a nice description of the Unity-field, where it is not you; it is not me; it is the energy-pattern between us :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
